Welcome to the QVC podcast. I am really looking

forward to this conversation.

Thank you for having me. Me too. I'm also looking

forward to this conversation.

Yeah. So we had a delightful discussion when I

was on Mind the Shift recently, and I sent that

link out to my audience and they were all very

excited to find your show, the type of thing that

they all really appreciate. I wanted to dive into

your story because on this podcast we. We talk to

a lot of doctors and we, you know, health

professionals who have broken out of kind of the

mainstream, you know, infrastructure that they

came up in, whether it's. In whether it's

allopathic or even alternative. Right. There's

just so many new paradigms of health opening up

that we tend to talk to people who are more

breaking out of whatever it was that's no longer

serving them or answering their questions. And

you have done a similar. You've been on a similar

path, but in the area of journalism, which I

think is crucial because that is how we learn. We

get all of our information, most of us. So tell

me a little bit about what kind of journalism you

did when you were a, quote, unquote, regular

journalist and then we'll start sort of explore

where you are now.

Sure. Thank you. Yes. Well, I trained to become a

journalist when I was in my 20s and I really

looked forward to doing that. I had been looking

forward to becoming a journalist since I was, I

guess, 15 years old or something like that. When

I was a kid, I read these comic books with the

hero was called Tintin. I don't know if you have.

You do, I guess. It's a Belgian, serious. Anyway,

he was a journalist, but he was all. Always on

all these fantastic adventures all over the

world. So it looked really cool. And he never

wrote anything that I can remember, didn't write

any articles. So it seemed like a very

interesting life. And when I was like, you know,

seven or eight or nine or something, I wanted to

become a discoverer of the world. But then I

realized, oh, every landmass has already been

discovered. So I can't. I can't do this. I have

to do something else. Anyway, so that's the

background. And I wanted to become a journalist,

but I took a couple of, you know, gap years to

travel before I studied. And then I became a

journalist and I got this job at the biggest

newspaper in the biggest morning newspaper in

Sweden. I'm living in Stockholm, Sweden, Northern

Europe. After having had brief sojourns at other

outlets, I ended up Douglas New Hatter Daily News

biggest Newspaper. So I was there for 22 years

as. As full time with a full time job there. I

had been there a couple of times before, just

briefly, but then 22 years. Okay. From 1998.

So you were employed full time as a newspaper

journalist for over 20 years. Okay. @ a major.

I had.

Major Swedish publication.

Exactly. I had different kinds of jobs. I was a

reporter, I was an editor. I did different

things, but. But I was there for 22 years. Yes.

And so did you cover all kinds of different

things like politics, culture, all the things.

I was always. As we might come back to. I was

always interested in the deep questions in life,

you know, the big questions, where, who are we?

Where do we come from? And all that. And I had

spiritual streak, a spiritual orientation already

from childhood. But I kind of kept that under

wraps because I kind of sensed that that wasn't

really what you could talk about openly. But I

was all I was. I've always been interested also

in what's happening in society, foreign policy,

economics, science, all kinds of stuff. So I

wrote about all kinds of stuff. And when I was an

editor, I had edited. I. I was working with other

reporters, writing about these different kinds of

things, the environment. I also wrote some

columns, more personalized things where I shared

my look on things, my worldview. So that was kind

of nice. Then I had a blog for five years. I ran

a blog called the Progress Blog, which was aimed

to describe the world in brighter colors than we

normally do in news journalism, because it's. And

it was tied to a book that I wrote in 2008, and

it came out in 2009, and it was called the Cozy

Darkness of the Apocalypse. So that's where I

kind of my first, you know, kind of. What's the

word? When I dealt with. With news journalism,

and I had struggled with it within. And so I had

many things to say about it. And I was critical

to the. To the misery bias that is kind of in the

dramaturgy of news journalism. So I wrote a book

about that and where I also displayed so many

facts, waves and waves and waves of facts,

showing that the world is not as bad as we think

it is. And it was about the environment, about

violence and about poverty broadly. And then it

was kind of in detail as well. And I also

speculated what this misery bias is, what the

causes are behind this misery bias, and there are

all kinds of explanations for it. It's a human

trait, because I think we have in the lizard

brain this tendency or we're prone to search for

a scan for danger. And that was probably a useful

trait 10,000 years ago or 100,000 years ago when

our ancestors lived in caves and there were

different dangerous animals are around and

wildfires to keep track of and all kinds of

stuff. But it's not really useful in our day and

age in this society where, I mean day to day life

is hardly ever lethal. I mean, the dangers are

not lethal, but we still have this tendency.

But if you just read newspapers and that's it,

you stayed alone in a room, you never went out,

you only read newspapers, you would not know that

we are not, generally speaking, on a day to day

basis under threat. It would feel.

Exactly.

The newspapers make us feel that. Misery bias, I

love that term. That's absolutely what it is.

Yes. And I also think about the misery threshold.

The threshold over which we, I mean, where we put

the, where we start talking about misery and bad

things, it gets lower and lower all the time. If

you go back to 300 years, it was probably a much

higher threshold before people actually thought

that something was a big problem. Probably, you

know, it had to be large catastrophes, big worse

and stuff like that. We still have that, that's

for sure. But I mean, newspapers can make war

headlines out of things that are far, far less

dangerous today. So we lower the misery threshold.

It's interesting, I really noticed that living

overseas because I lived in places and a few

different times there were major, major events

happening that were in the area that I was living

in, that had headlines, global headlines. And I

would get messages from people like, I lived in

Paris when or near Paris during, when there was

that attack in the nightclub in the Bataclan.

2015, I think.

Yeah, it was 2015 because we just moved there.

And it was a terrible, terrible incident. It was

major terrorist incident. However, I had people

for days and days reaching out, are you okay? Are

you okay? And outside of the, the one block

radius where that terrible event occurred, I was

like, yes, I'm, I'm at, I'm in the grocery store,

I'm buying my groceries. And so, you know, life

was going on. But it was interesting to me

because the entire perception of all of, you

know, oh, you're in France, you must be living

through this terrorist event. And it was like.

Because that's what everyone's focus was on,

their attention was on and they connected those

two things. And I just thought, isn't this

interesting? Like, how often have I done that

where I've just painted an entire region based on

one incident that's getting my full attention and

the attention of the world.

Yeah, it's very healthy to be out abroad

sometimes and see it from that perspective and

also read foreign newspapers, what they write

about your own country. Because as you say, I

mean, when I was at this big newspaper in

Stockholm, we wrote stuff about, you know, what

was happening. There is a narrative. We don't

have to go into the politics of everything, but

there is a. There is a certain narrative that is

told that we are told in the Western world. And

there's a slightly different narrative about the

world told in Eastern Europe and in Russia and in

China and as we all know, so different

narratives. And I tend to think that there is

some truth to all of them, but they're not. None

of them is entirely the whole truth, so to speak.

So there was a lot of, you know, kind of self,

from our perspective, self evident things to say

about Hungary and Turkey and countries like that.

But then it's interesting to read or get to know

what they, the newspapers in those countries

write about Sweden and things that are happening

in this country. And it's kind of, you know,

people get. They feel attacked, you know, because

I mean, personally when they read these things.

But no, that's not me, that's not my country.

That's not what's happening. You don't know

what's happening here. It's nothing, nothing

dangerous. But. But they are focusing, of course,

on certain things that are happening in this

country and that are in some countries. That in

some countries get to be very big headlines. Like

we have this gang violence, you might call it

groups, gangs of youngsters, mainly young people

who have come from other countries, from

countries in the Middle east and Somalia and

stuff like, and places like that. And there's

some kind of a turf war around, you know, the

cocaine and the drugs trade. And for some reason

they've started using guns here. It's really

bizarre. And I'm not denying that this is a big

problem. It is a big problem, but it's not

affecting everybody here. I mean, if I didn't

read about it in newspapers, I wouldn't know it

was going on. I'm living in Stockholm. I know

there have been many shootings in this area in

the suburbs of Stockholm. I've never heard a shot

being fired once. So I mean, it's the same thing.

But then if you think about it, I mean, why

wouldn't these countries, the newspapers in those

countries write about Sweden in that way? It's

logical if we write, I mean, if we pick up some

problem that's happening there It's a bit. Both a

bit sad and a bit funny and a bit ridiculous that

we look upon each other in this way. How we

cannot see the whole story and the whole truth

and just try to be neutral about things. And

there's a lot we could say about, for instance,

what's happening in Ukraine and all that. I don't

think we should dive into that, but it's

fascinating. I try to stay. I try to stay as

neutral as possible in all these matters. I'm

still interested in the news. I try not to follow

the news as much because I kind of was marinated

in it for so many years. So, I mean, to stay

sane, I need to stay away from the news. I don't

listen to it 247 like I did, but I kind of check

the headlines and read a couple of articles every

day. So I know what's going on. The big, big

picture. And you can't miss the big things, of

course. But I try to stay neutral. And it's,

It's. It's incredible how people, you know, crawl

into their different boxes and. And just see the

world from one perspective. It's. It's so

polarized. I don't know. And that's something

that. I mean, my credo. Credo has been for many

years that the world is better than we think. But

this is actually something that's accentuated as

being accentuated lately, this polarization. I

wonder what it. Why, why that is. Because I would

say that these, These opinions, that some people

are shocked that they exist now, they have always

been there. That's. I would say that I think they

have always been there, but they haven't been

able. They haven't. People have always had

different views on things, but now they are so.

It's so easy, you know, to express them by way of

social media and all kinds of alternative media

and all that. So we can see it. We can see it

being said and being expressed. And I don't think

people should be so shocked about that because

we're different. We're 8 billion different angles

on reality and we should respect each other and

listen to each other. And we don't have to agree

with each other. Absolutely not. But we should

kind of be better at listening to each other and

trying to understand what the other person means

when he says or she says certain things. Because

it's sometimes like people are just shut down

when they hear that somebody is on a particular

political spectrum. They just shut down all, you

know, ability to.

I think we've been encoded in Some way to trigger

a shutdown. Upon hearing certain words, the names

of political parties, the names of certain

politicians. I tend to avoid saying them because

I. I want this podcast to, like, transcend

politics. Yeah, everyone has. Everyone's in the

quantum field, right? Everyone has mitochondria.

We all deserve to know. So. And I feel like as

soon as you say certain things, we've been

programmed, Right. You hear a certain word, a

certain name, or someone says that they're

affiliated with a certain party, and it's like,

boom, the mind closes and you feel almost

triggered, like, oh, like a betrayal. Like, here

I was listening to this. It just happened to me

yesterday. I was listening to this coach who I

really like. She's. You know, she was sharing all

this stuff, and then she said something about her

feelings on a political situation, and I just

felt myself go, and I felt betrayed because it

was different than mine. And I thought, oh, my

goodness. Oh, we have all these programmed.

Yeah, we're programmed. It's. It's sad, but it's.

It's also very interesting. But I think it has.

It's part of the. Sorry, part of the health. It's

part of our health, actually. I mean, your

podcast is all about health and quantum health,

which is wonderful. And I think what we're

discussing now is actually part of that, because

being healthy is also about being able to see the

whole world and also to be able to dare to

question things and speaking your own truth and

all those things without fear and not being so.

You know, we're so scared of being on the wrong

team or being on the wrong side or. It's not that

we're only humans and we're only people, and it

has to do with our health, because if we kind of

block ourselves from certain parts of this

reality, I think we end up blocking also energy,

energy lines, energy fields in our bodies. And I

think it's bad. I think we should be open.

Yes, no, I completely agree. And that's why I

wanted to talk to you, because we don't. I think

even the categorization of physical health and

mental health, I think those categories are

fading away. Just like politically, the left and

right is starting to be meaningless. You know,

like these. These compartments that we've been

trained to put everything in are no longer valid.

They're no longer useful. And so if health is

just health, spiritual, mental, emotional,

physical, psychological, then how we process

information, which is in large part through

media, whether legacy media, traditional media,

social media, we need to understand how to do

that without going crazy, without Getting

triggered and with a level, as we were talking

about before, with a level of discernment as we

were. So we're moving into this new media

landscape and you've been on the forefront of

that. You were traditional newspaper then you did

a blog, now you have your YouTube channel where

you get to cover whatever you want because it's

yours. But thousands and thousands of people are

doing that. So it's become a very busy media

landscape. We used to have four choices and now

we have 4 million choices. So talk to me about

that word discernment and how in this new

landscape where there are so many more choices,

there are so many people like yourself, right.

Who have been trained to deliver information and

are choosing to do it in a new way versus people

who just are like, I'm just going to turn on the

camera and start talking. I've never done this

before. That's all good too. It's all good. But

how do we make sure that we are. I know we can't

really make sure of anything, I guess, but how do

we practice discernment in this very crowded

media landscape? Would you say?

Very, very. Yeah, very good question. I'm not

sure I have a wise enough answer to that

question. But it is, as you say, I mean, the

landscape is so broad now and, but it's also,

it's like everything that happened, the big

changes that happened, they contain both

opportunities and threats. It's like the, the old

saying that the Chinese sign for crisis comprise

is comprised of the sign for or the character

for. What is it now? Threat and opportunity. I

think it's threat and opportunity. This is the

definition of a crisis. So there's always an

opportunity in this myriad that we see, myriad

new outlets that we see and can access. But I

think the Internet in general is such a big

opportunity. I tend to think of it as kind of the

approximation of the akashic Records, the 3D

version of the Akashic records. It's kind of a

nice try, but we're not really there. But I mean,

because for real, it is actually very, very easy

now for people. I mean, despite the attempts at

censoring people and stuff like that, it is very

easy to find very, very interesting information

about things that you will never actually learn

in the, the legacy media or very seldom, at least

you can, you can hear about them out about those

things in, in alternative media perhaps. But I

think it's actually, of course people say, I

don't have time to check everything up. I need

the media to tell me what's true and what's not

true. But I think that time is over. The time

when we could rely on authorities to tell us what

is true and not true. The time when we rely on

authorities to tell us what's happening and not

happening and what we should do and not do and

what we should vote for and not vote for. I mean,

if you go back 50, 60 years, people were. People

tend to romanticize that time and say, oh, it was

much more calm, the society was calm and

everybody agreed on everything. But I think

that's actually a false narrative. I think it was

more like people just assumed that authorities

were trustworthy, they were to be trusted,

because people didn't think for themselves as

much. It was more hierarchical in that sense. And

you went to a doctor and the doctor told you what

you were sick of and you just accepted that.

People don't do that anymore. They kind of want a

second opinion and they think for themselves and

they're skeptical. And that's a good thing. It

makes the world a messier place and a more

complex and confused place. But I think that's a

necessary process. And same with what you read in

the papers and here on the TV news or whatever.

Check it up for yourself if you can. If you have

the time, just go to the Internet and search. Try

to find the. The primary sources for everything,

if it's possible. Because it's oftentimes not as

simple as you were being presented it to be. When

it comes to science, for instance, or health or

the ua, the UFO phenomenon, which I've lately

been very interested in, or there are so many

things happening, so discernment, that's one

thing. I mean, that's the practical way of, of

looking into things for yourself. But also trust

your own judgment because we are all, if I am to

be a bit esoteric now, we are all aspects of

source, if you will, and we have much greater

capacity than we are led to believe. If we just

listen to our inner voices and our higher selves

and sit in stillness five or 10 minutes now and

then and just let things sink in and don't think

actively about them with your brain, but just let

them sink in. And then oftentimes when you come

out of that still little period, you have better

discernment actually just by doing that, just by

meditating a little bit or just by not doing

anything for five minutes, it helps. I think

that's a good practice. I try to meditate every

morning, or I do, but not every meditation

session is extremely deep. But most of the time

it's really, really good. It makes one start the

day on a much better and calmer note than if you

don't do it.

So, yeah, and I think that's really wise to

approach the media that way. And for myself, over

time, I can now it's super clear to me when the

headline has an agenda of some sort. And so then

it's like, okay, well, take that with a grain of

salt. Take that with a grain of salt. And then

you finally find someone who's covering it in a

somewhat neutral, or at least maybe with a

different agenda, so they're highlighting a

different aspect of it and really have to like,

put all these puzzle pieces together and see the

voices that come through who are most often

dedicated to really just wanting to know what's

happening and not to as driving a bias in some

sort of direction. And yeah, it's a journey.

It's a journey. It's also, we, you have to also

respect, I mean, everybody. We are all human.

We're all human. And I've been, As I said, 22

years at this big newspaper. And I can add, by

the way, that the blog that I had was actually

within that newspaper. So that was my thing that

I was able to have it on there. But so I know, I

know how, I know the drill, so to speak, and I

know how people tend to. And this is natural. It

happens in every workplace. There is a certain

amount of groupthink and it's, it's, it's, it's

not very good, but it's natural. I mean, it's

explicable, explainable. It's, it happens. So

it's not that. It's, if you, if you, if you find

certain media outlets being not trustworthy, not

reliable, especially not reliable, certain media

outlets, perhaps you have to respect that people

working there, or most of them are not, I mean,

they are convinced that they're doing a good

thing. And so it's, it's just, you know, hard to

just go against the stream sometimes. And. Well,

there are certain narratives and there is,

there's a lot of narratives. I mean, science, for

instance. I'm also now engaged in an organization

called the Frontier Journalists Network, which is

something that your listeners might be interested

in checking out, perhaps. And we are, it's a very

small organization still, but we want to convey

to journalists around the world the science, the

research that is happening at the interface of

the, the nexus, if you will, between science and

spirituality. And there is a lot of things

happening there, which is exciting, actually. Not

least the Research on consciousness and what

consciousness is. And it's getting closer and

closer and closer to, I mean the mainstream

science there, there neuroscientists are getting

closer and closer and closer to, to spiritual

traditions that have been there for thousands of

years. And it's really exciting. And this is

actually happening. It's not, I mean it's peer

reviewed papers, but this has not sunk into the

mainstream media yet. It will, it will. I've

written a couple of articles and I'm very

grateful that I've been able to publish one big

long read in a mainstream news magazine here in

Sweden about the latest findings in consciousness

research. And, but there is a going back to this

group think and, and the narratives that we're

being told for decades and decades. This is a

good example of that because journalists are,

they tend to, you know, stick to the, what is the

mainstream view in, in certain, all kinds of

areas. A few of them can sometimes take it, take

a detour and write a, you know, a column about

some new woo woo. But you know, news articles are

mainly following the mainstream path. But, but

that is actually moving now. It's a moving

target. But most journalists don't know that yet.

So it's, but I mean it's difficult to, it's, it's

not really fair to blame the journalists for not

being on the front, you know, the cutting edge of

this development here because they will

eventually. But there is an inertia.

Yeah. Well, it's interesting you say that because

I really think, you know, we get so mad at the

bureaucrats and the, the politicians and the

journalists. But I'm not sure, you know, I don't

think it's the people who are terrible. I think

it's the systems that are, have terrible

incentives. So you know, I, someone was saying

like, why are, who are all these incompetent

people? Like why can't they hire better people?

And I'm like, they're probably fine. They

probably have the potential to be highly

competent. But bureaucracy incentivizes

incompetence. Right. And politics incentivizes

corruption and the medical system incentivizes

treating symptoms with drugs.

Yeah.

And that's, and we just kind of lean into it. And

so what I hear saying for journalists it's like

you're incentivized to stay in the boat and not

rock it. And is the punishment for that losing

your job, losing your reputation? Right. Because

I know people who are like viscerally terrified

of touching a woo woo subject because they really

think it will destroy their credibility they want

to.

They don't want others to put the tinfoil hat on

their heads. Yeah, they're terrified of that. I

can understand that. But I'm out of that now. I

don't, I don't care anymore. I care a little bit,

but not too much because I haven't. I mean, I've

been a freelancer for five years now, and I've

been out there so much. And I know that I have. I

have a soul family all over the world.

Yeah.

That thinks and feels the same way that I do. So

I'm, I'm, I'm fine. But if I were still in that

situation, I would probably feel a bit scared

about that. Yeah. Because everybody wants to be

in the group, on the right side, on the, you

know, the sane side of things. And this is. The

UFO phenomenon is the same thing here, actually.

But what's, what's good about it is that, that

it's been discussed in Congress. I mean, these

are.

Let's unpack that one. What do you see happening

with that topic right now?

Well, people who have been working in, you know,

with. Both in the private sector and in the

public sector with security on a high level,

they've been working in the military. They are

trained officers who have worked for many years

in the military special operations, and have come

to work with these very secretive, These covert

operations that have to do with retrieving

unidentified anomalous phenomena, craft et craft

probably, and transporting them to certain

facilities where they have been. Certain special

people have tried to reverse engineer those

craft. And this has been going on for probably 70

to 80 years. And this is what you hear in

congressional hearings now. There have been,

there have been two of those, one in 20, 23 and

one last year with people who are.

You have members of Congress sit and listen to

the testimony of people participating in the

activities you just described.

Yes.

Okay. And so this is on the record.

This is on the record.

All right.

And it's been. And some of the mainstream papers,

they have written about these hearings, of

course. I mean, that otherwise would be really

strange. They have, but it's, it's like they kind

of. They don't really believe it anyway. It's

like it's too, it's too far out. So they had to,

you know, add some kind of. They have to

formulate it or word it in a way that it's a

little bit tongue in cheek sometimes, perhaps, or

always end the articles with a little bit of

skepticism. But it's coming out there more and

more, and I don't know about this latest

administration that is now in place in the United

States. It's very early to say what's going to

happen with many things around that. But anyway,

this is one of the things that they have said.

People in that administration have said that they

will disclose what has been going on in this

area. And so it's very, very interesting,

interesting times. And if you're really into the

woo woo stuff and listen to people who are

channeling and stuff like that, which I do

sometimes, I find it very fascinating. I can't

say that I am convinced that everything that is

actually an extraterrestrial entity that

communicates through a channel, but doesn't

really matter because what is being said is often

very wise and often very interesting. And some of

those people have been saying that this is the

time of disclosure and we are soon going to see

actual craft hovering above cities and people are

not going to be able to deny that they're

actually there. So we will see. We had these, you

know, so called the drone crisis in New Jersey

and some other places, mainly over New Jersey.

And they were. This is still a very, very

unsolved matter. It's been, you know, dismissed

by, by the authorities as. No, no, it's totally

fine. It's just drones. But there are a lot of,

there is a lot of video footage from not only

civilians but from mayors and from police

officers that show, you know, that this is not

just ordinary drones. Some are probably, some

are, but not all of them. There is something

strange going on there and I don't know, maybe,

maybe it's all man made. But then they have to

because these craft are moving in such strange

ways sometimes that they have to. In that case,

if FAA has, has, you know, authorized all these,

these operations, they have to explain what's

going on. Otherwise we don't. It is something

fishy going on. Maybe it's not ETs, but it's in.

This case it's something at the very least, it's

advanced technology that nobody has. And

knowledge exists, whether it was made on this

planet or somewhere else.

Yeah, maybe on this planet, but with technology

that we have retrieved from reverse engineered

from retrieved. Did you hear this? Or these

interviews and these episodes on News nations

with the journalist Ross Coltheart who

interviewed Jack Barber.

Yes, you did actually. It's funny. Bring it up. I

just listened to it two days ago.

Okay.

Because I heard someone on YouTube talk about it.

Yeah, it's fascinating.

It was. They did. I thought. I didn't really, I

hadn't. Wasn't familiar with News Nation as an

outlet. I thought they did a beautiful job

covering that story and respectfully and treating

all of their interview subjects respectfully, but

also not, you know, sensationalizing it and

jumping to conclusions, just staying with the

facts as they were being related and what they

could back up with video. And I thought they. I

thought they did a really nice job.

Yeah, me too.

Journalistically speaking.

I understand Ross Coulthard had, you know, vetted

this man, Jake Barber, and some other people that

were on his show as well for a couple of years.

So he really, really. Yeah, he really worked a

lot beforehand to make it possible because he. I

mean, he's a serious journalist. And this is a

good thing with journalism. It should be like

this.

I think that's what I was picking up on. Like

these. This just has a depth to it. These people,

these producers and these journalists have done

their homework. They really, really. It felt

connected to the material. They had researched

every piece of everything that they were

presenting to the audience. It was. And so now

you're telling me it was years of research.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow.

And Jake Barber has also requested to be

testifying before Congress as well. So he's

working on that. And he has this group of people

who. In an organization called Sky Watcher, I

think, or Sky Watchers.

Yeah.

And they are people like himself who have been

working in these covert operations concerning

these UAPs and the retrieval programs. And they

are. They say that they will try and they are

certain that they will succeed also to summon

these craft within that. Within that. Within the

confines of this organization, Sky Watcher, and

be able to retrieve them and to. Because that's

also. That's. You heard the interview. Part of

this actually has to do with consciousness. And

this is where. This is the part. As Ross Coltort

pointed out, this is probably the part that

people have the hardest time wrapping their heads

around because they're not used to talking about

consciousness, and especially not in combination

with practical things like technical things and

science and all that. But it all goes together.

Of course. Consciousness is part of it. And as

far as I understand, Jake Barber and his. These

teams that are working with these retrieval

programs, they have certain groups that are.

Psyops. No, not psyops. They're psionics. They

work with psionics. So it's.

Right.

Yeah. Parapsychologically, you know, they have

extra sensory.

They have like a team of psychics.

Like a team of psychics. Right. Yeah. Thank you.

I was trying to find the right words there.

No, but that's not what they call them. You're

right. They call them psionics. They had a

special military word. So that doesn't sound like

team of psychics, except that's what it is. Okay.

But they actually contracted these crafts by way

of consciousness in some way. So they, they,

that's why. Because you can, you can maybe think

that, well, if they're so advanced and they come

here from another star system and why would they,

I mean, why would they do something as stupid as,

you know, crash their. Why would they craft crash

on Earth Sounds really, you know, not very

advanced. But maybe that's not what's happening.

It's more like they are being summoned. So

anyway, if this group, Skywatcher or organization

or whatever it's called, I think it's a company

really, but it doesn't matter if they're able to

do that and then to present these parts of craft

or whatever they get hold of, that would be

really, really interesting. Pretty difficult for,

I guess, journalists to just dismiss. So we'll

see. I think this year is going to be

interesting. More things are going to be

revealed, I think in that, in that area.

Yeah, I think so too. I get my information from a

similar way you just described a little bit of

this, a little bit of that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. What are the. And that seems to be a common

thread is that these next couple of years are

just. There are going to be so many shifts in how

we see things. It's just going to be impossible

to maintain the status quo. And I feel, and I'm

curious what your experience has been. I feel

that a lot of us have been called to step into

these alternative spaces and start laying the

foundation so that when these shifts do happen,

there's some projects, some place to go for the

people. Yeah. Something in place for people for

all of us to grab onto. Like, do you feel that

sense or what's your experience been like.

Yeah, I feel the same way. May sound a bit

pretentious, but it's not. I don't think it's

that. It's just because in many ways it would

have been easier to just stay in the mainstream

and do what everybody else does. But I never

really felt at ease or I didn't feel comfortable

and I didn't understand what it was because I had

this fantastic job at this fantastic workplace,

this big newspaper. But something told me that

I'm not sure I'm supposed to be here. And then I.

It's a personal thing also because me and my ex

wife who's now still my best friend. We meet all

the time and we discuss these kinds of things

also a lot. So it was a very beautiful, loving

divorce that we decided to have there five years

ago. And so all this happened at once. We

separated and I quit my job. My father died and I

started this podcast. And so it all happened at

once. So there were a lot of things happening. So

there was some kind of a. Maybe it was a Saturn

return in my life, if you know about that, every

29 years. So I was 58 then. Was I 57 or

something? I don't know, something like that. 56

maybe. But somewhere around there, there was

something telling me that if I don't do this now,

then when. Because I got an inheritance. And a

little bit like that, when we sold our house, we

made some money on that. So I had some. Some

extra money and I thought, so if I'm going to

quit, I better do it now because this is the best

time. So I did it.

It's like, there's no more real world reasons.

It's like, oh, I need the paycheck, I need to pay

my mortgage. It's like, okay, Exactly.

And then, yes, during that period, I was very

grateful that there were people like yourself and

others on YouTube and on Alternative platforms

that could talk about deep stuff that I was

pondering at the time, that I didn't find anybody

talking about that on Swedish national radio or

in the newspaper. So I already. Back then, I

mean, it's not very long ago, but it's growing

even more so. I think you're right to your point

there, that people like you and me, I think we

have a role to play there. When it's going to

become even more confused and chaotic out there,

which I think it will in many ways. I don't think

we're going to have violent, more violence and

stuff like that. People are scared of that. I

don't know. Of course, I know as little as

anybody. But my sense is that it's going to be

kind of messy but not really dangerous, if you

see what I mean. So people are gonna perceive

things as dangerous, but they're not really. It's

just that things are handled in a different way

than they used to be handled. And old paradigms

are shattered and old ways of organizing science,

nations, economies, politics are changing and

people always get scared when this happens. I

just think it's from the place where I am now. I

just think it's very, very interesting, actually.

It's not going to be easy, but it's Going to be

very interesting.

I think it's true. We. What's that? I think it's

also a Chinese proverb, may you be born in

interesting times. But it's kind of. We're in it

because. Yeah, I think messy is a good word.

That's the sense I'm getting. And that's what

I'm. I'm starting to see. Like a maelstrom. Like,

there's just. It's. It's like the Zone is being

flooded with messages and information and this is

happening. No, that's happening. No, that's

wrong. No, this. Wrong. And it's becoming. Yeah,

it's. It's not clear. And that part of us that

wants. That wants it to be clear was this. Is

this disinformation or not? It's like, what. But

what you always say is, there's a golden thread

of truth in everything. It's like. Well, it's

kind of. Kind of misinformation, but there's

something true about it. Right? It's like.

Exactly.

That seems to be what we're coming up against

over and over. And navigating through that, for

those of us, like, oriented towards truth, is.

Yeah, it's. It's. It's exciting.

It's exciting. Yeah, it's exciting. And golden

thread of truth is. Is a very good thing here to

think about, because when you see that, if you

can. If you can see all. All the pieces of

information that you glean with a neutral, with

neutralize, you. You. You will discern, you will

be able to discern that there is, as I say, a

golden thread of truth in everything, even the

things that the mainstream might call

disinformation. But then you also realize that

what you have thought for 30 years was the

absolute truth was not either. Not the absolute

truth, but it had a golden truth, a golden,

golden thread of truth in it. But it wasn't the

whole truth. I mean, take history, for instance.

It's kind of obvious these days that, I mean,

more and more things are coming up about what's

happened in history and we haven't been told

everything. Of course, it's not strange, of

course. I mean, if you take wars, for instance,

that have been fought over the course of history,

the winner writes the history. So there's another

side to it, always and has always been. So it's

not. It's not. There's nothing strange in it.

Some people might get nervous and feel uneasy

when they realize that there is no such thing as

one absolute truth, because there isn't. But to

Me, it makes life much more interesting and much

larger. And it also has to do, of course, it ties

in with what kind of worldview or life view you

have. Because if you're a materialist and you

believe that we are only biological robots with

no purpose, we just have to do the best we can of

this physical life and then we die and it's all

black and there is nothing more, then you might

get nervous about it. But if you have a different

view and you realize that the essence of us, the

core, can't die, it never dies. It's, I mean,

consciousness is eternal. We're just part of,

we're all together, we're all part of the same

all encompassing consciousness. Then it's, it's

just, I mean, this may sound almost preposterous

to some people, but it's, it's all good. When you

see it that way, it actually is all good. I mean,

in essence then you can, of course, on the

surface, when you day to day life and decisions

that are being made and events, you can, of

course you can have opinions about them. That was

bad. That was good. That was bad. That was good.

That's how we operate, that's how we are human.

But I mean in general, the big scheme of things,

it's all good. That's the big secret of the

universe, is that everything's going to be fine.

Yes, yes. And we, and we get to participate, we

get to contribute to the type of consciousness

that we're living in, the type of reality that

we're living in. So your decision to leave

mainstream media and start your own is

contributing to a timeline where that, that

exists. And then everyone who chooses, whether

you do it in a public facing way or you just

choose to put your energy on different types of

things. Like we're building, we're building the

reality that we are then going to be experiencing.

Yeah.

Or are experiencing.

Yes, yes, I agree. I wonder what people,

colleagues, old colleagues of mine from the

newspaper are thinking about what I'm doing. Or

maybe they're not thinking about it at all. Maybe

I'm just, they have just forgot about me. That's,

that's fine. But because I think I still, I think

I'm a person who's pretty difficult to pinpoint

for, for people because I'm still writing, you

know, pieces that are kind of, you know, normal

about science and about the environment. And I

get the thumbs up for that from the old guard.

Oh, thank God he did something that we can talk

about.

All of a sudden I write an article about the UFOs

phenomenon or about consciousness. And then I can

imagine that some people go, whoa, he seems to

have lost it. What's happened?

He's gone off the deep end again. Yeah, it's so

interesting to me because. And I noticed this,

doing research on all of these different

scientists and physicists over the last few

years. Psychologists. And so many of them were

considered brilliant and they won all the prizes

and they were like, all the medals and they were

the towering figure in their field. And then so

many times in the bio I would read, it would be

like. And then in the last like 10, 15 years of

their life, they went on like, they got all weird

and they went down this weird woo woo track.

Nobody, they must have just got old and crazy.

And it's like bio after bio after bio has some

version of that. And I'm like, at what point do

we say maybe all of these towering figures of

intellect saw something once they, you know,

accrued all of their achievements and no longer,

you know, saw the end of their life coming and

were ready to accept a larger truth. But every

time, nope, they just went, they just got old and

crazy and they write off the bigger esoteric,

more difficult to explain conclusions.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I've also seen what you're

describing, especially on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is

terrible when it comes to describing the

scientists that are interested in esoteric

matters. It's the worst. You know that there is a

group called the guerrilla skeptics on Wikipedia,

gsow I think it's abbreviated and they are.

There's a guy in California, journalist I know a

little bit, Craig Wyler, he has taken it upon

himself to kind of expose this group because it's

an active group and you can look it up on, also

on Wikipedia actually, because they're proud of

what they're. And they are, you know, materialist

skeptics who are really, you know, in this

physicalist box. And they have, I think they're,

they actually, actually believe that they are

doing a very, very good thing for humanity. And

so they, they go into all these articles about

people like Rupert Sheldrake and Dean Radin and

Pim Van Lommel and they just change things

because they don't want, they want to depict

their research as pseudoscience. That's their

task. So it's terrible. It should be exposed.

So Wikipedia is intentionally framing any of

these more esoteric thinkers?

Yeah, well, yeah, right, but Wikipedia is not

this group. But the thing with Wikipedia is that

it's kind of user operated. So I mean they are

Kind of. They have become admins of it. And you

can become that. You can. You can apply for that

and. But I think the founder, Jimmy Wales, is

himself a materialist. I don't think he has

openly said that. I support this group and I like

what they're doing, but I think he silently

approves of what they're doing. That's. That's my

guess.

No, I think so, based on my experience with

Wikipedia and hearing stories of how political it

is to even be able to edit on there. I mean, I

know. I know people. There's a journalist called

Alex Berenson. He. He does a lot of. He covered a

lot during COVID and on the vaccines and

everything. And I saw him, he wrote one time,

he's like, I just gave up. My Wikipedia bio is

garbage, and there's nothing I can do about it. I

can't get in there. I can't change it, I can't

fix it. It's filled with lies. And so I guess

that goes back to what we were talking about

earlier, cultivating discernment, and especially

when there's these intentional forces muddying

the waters. Because what you were saying and what

your work covers is that there is a lot of quote

unquote hard science behind so many fascinating

things, you know, quantum biology, consciousness,

and all of it. But then there are forces that are

intentionally making it seem unfounded.

Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's. It makes you, of

course, then become suspicious towards other

topics as well, if you know that they're

manipulating or doctoring information when it

comes to science and spirituality stuff. Maybe

they have other groups doing the same thing on

other topics. Probably. Probably.

Right. Probably. And then this comes back to

something else I wanted to ask you more about,

because what happens then, and I see this very

often in the health sort of ecosystem. People

become kind of bitter. They feel that they're

being lied to. They feel that they're being

betrayed, and they are. And it's just sort of,

you know, forget everything sucks. Everyone's

terrible. These people are terrible. And it can

create a. Yeah. Like a bitter, unhappy kind of

way of life. And so I'm curious. Your book was

the.

The Cozy, Cozy Darkness of the Apocalypse.

The Cozy Darkness of the Apocalypse. Right.

Which. The point of that being that sometimes we,

like, we. We feel more comfortable saying, like,

oh, everything's terrible.

Yeah.

Is that.

Yeah.

What is. What was your premise there?

Kind of the background to the title there.

Okay.

Trying to describe how we kind of. What's the

word? Wallow in the Misery in a way because I

mean we can all relate to. And it's probably ages

old. You can, you can imagine people sitting

around a bonfire outside of the cave 20,000 years

ago and there's some person in the, in the, in

the group there telling horror stories about

saber toothed tigers that he met on his, you

know, hunts and things like that. And everybody

was, oh, tell me more, tell me more. So we love

that. And people love also thriller movies and

horror stories in novels and it's, it's very,

very difficult to write. I've heard of Swedish,

Swedish author talked about this once and said

that it's so sad that it's extremely difficult to

write a truly happy story because nobody really

wants it or nobody really is really interested in

it, which is, I don't know, there's something

about the human condition. But then people have

often also had these visions. They've talked

about the global village. And I remember when I

grew up, quite a few people who were kind of

visualizing a world in peace and a world where we

didn't have any borders. And I mean that's still

possible. We're not dead yet, we're here. So why

can't people have these visions? I don't really

understand that. It's strange to me. It's like I

can sometimes kind of wake up in my waking state

and be surprised that firstly I'm still here.

I've been here always. Because I mean that's this

sense that you have when you, when you're in this

life and you. I think it's kind of a, kind of an

evidence or indication that you are eternal.

Because there's this sense that I've always been

around, of course, anyway, that's one thing. And

the other thing is I kind of wake up and look

around and think what are we still doing this? We

have nations, we have even, we even have wars, we

have money, we have what's. What is this? I mean,

I've been having this, you know, since I was a

kid and back in the 70s idea that oh, it's soon

going to change dramatically and maybe I'm very

special. Then I might be strange because to me

it's been natural to think that way. That this

world is one day we won't have any borders, we

won't have any this or that, no races and not

even any money. Eventually we're just going to be

here and do things because that's why we're here,

to do things and experience things together,

invent things, you know, have feelings that's the

reason why we're here. We're not here to build

borders and governments and bureaucracies and

civil servants and, you know, install these kinds

of jobs that people have, meaningless jobs.

That's not why we're here. It's crazy. Can't you

think that, can't you feel the same way sometimes

that it's strange that we're still doing this?

Yes. Especially on the bureaucracy front because

it just seems to perpetuate itself and it's never

going to solve. Bureaucracy doesn't solve

problems. It doesn't.

No.

You know, it doesn't have any vision. It's just.

And it's self generated, it's functionary and it

just, it just exists to expand itself and take

over. And I. Yeah, but at the same time, I feel

like there's always where we are in our conscious

evolution. We, we need a little friction. I mean,

I have, I've been pushed to do some of my best

work when I've come up against really annoying

people.

Yeah.

And then I break through with an idea I wouldn't

have had without that person.

Yeah.

Or even the work we're doing now if we didn't

have that old way to push back on.

Yeah.

But. Yeah, then at what point does it. Do we not

need that anymore? We can just sort of exist.

Because I think, you know, we can wrap up on this

topic. I just, I think it's super interesting,

like what's happening in the United States right

now. So I'm Canadian, I live in the US So I have

this kind of front row seat. But I'm not, I'm not

involved. I can't vote. And I see just in the

area of health, there's a new Health and Human

Services Secretary in the United States who five

minutes ago was public enemy number one. Talk

about jumping from mainstream to alternative.

It's happened fast nowadays.

You never know what's going to happen. But now I

feel like, okay, we're in this place where we

were just so angry, pushing back on the

establishment. Like, oh, they're so terrible.

They're doing this stuff. They're doing that to

us. And now it's like, okay, now we have the. Now

we have the floor. It's like building or making

the change or supporting people and it's gonna be

messy. Cause that person is right about food, but

they don't know anything about this. And this

person's talking about vaccines, but they don't

know anything about light. And everyone's got

there becomes territorial and it gets really

messy. And it's like, okay, now we, now we are

out in the, you know, in the ring, so to speak.

We're not no longer on the sidelines. And what

are we going to do? How's it going to go? I don't

know.

Like I said, it's very interesting. It's

fascinating that it's happening. And I think

that, like, exactly as you're describing it,

these people that are now being placed in

different positions in this new administration,

they're being vetted and they're being checked

and they're being scrutinized much, much, much

more than they would normally be in normal,

quote, unquote, or ordinary administrations, be

it from the left side or the right side, doesn't

matter. It's been, I mean, it's been more or less

the same, regardless of party controlling it for

50 years or something like that. But now it is

something different. It is something completely

different. And people are freaking out because

they don't know what's happening. They don't

understand these people. They don't understand

how people like this can be placed in these

positions. So they're being vetted a lot. Maybe

it's a good thing that they are. But anyway, it's

really. And speaking of the secretary that you

were just referring to also in this country and

in Europe and I think all over Western Europe and

Americans should realize this, that what's

happening now in the United States is so, it's so

many people are watching this and it's polarized

here as well. Many people are freaking out and

thinking that this is the beginning of World War

Three or something. And they're just horrified.

And they are only reading the newspapers that are

depicting it in that way as well. So they don't,

you know, get to really understand what could be

said about it from the other side. But also a lot

of people are hoping, putting a lot of hopes

around this figure in HHS now. And because there

was also a lot of controversy around the

pandemic, the vaccines, the lockdowns, face masks

and all of those things here in Europe as well.

Sweden was one of the few countries that didn't

have lockdowns, which I was very grateful for.

That's right.

Yeah. That was a good thing. So we could, we

could.

Yeah, your poor guy who made that decision, he

was like getting hammered. He stuck to it, didn't

he?

Both. And I mean, but he was also very, he was

also very adamant that the vaccines were the best

thing that had happened since sliced bread. Since

sliced bread or something like that. So, I mean,

he was. It was. I think he kind of felt that he

had to be that and he had to say those things.

But when it came to lockdowns and face masks, he

just followed the science because it's common

sense. We can't close schools. Why would you

close schools when we have this infection that is

a thousand fold or 2000 fold more dangerous for

people over 70 than for kids? It. It's not

dangerous for kids. Might be dangerous for 70

years olds. And I mean, they should have the

vaccine perhaps, but. Or whatever, whatever you

should call it. The, the medical intervention,

the experimental medical intervention. So. Yeah,

but people are, as I said, also watching this

very closely, even in Europe. So what is

happening?

Yes. No, there is an energy ball unfolding in the

United States right now that is super fascinating

and I think will have ramifications around the

world and who knows what's going to happen or how

things are going to play out. But I do feel like

it's our time to step up. And you know, I. What I

hear you saying too is like, be flexible in. In

how we take in information. Be discerning. Trust

our. Trust our own intuition. Like, how does. How

did this land? How did this make me feel? Am I

feeling outraged or am I feeling like, oh, okay,

that's good to know. Like all these different

things.

Yeah.

So is there anything that you would like to share

before we wrap up? Anything that's coming to you?

No, just that emphasize what you just talked

about here, that trust your own judgment and your

discernment. And don't follow the news 24 7. You

can follow it a little bit if you want to know

what's happening, but not too much because it's

not good for your health. And also check things

for yourself if you have the time and think for

yourself and take some time off just to do

nothing once in a while. 10 minutes here, 10

minutes there, meditate or just do nothing. It

will be good for you and you will have better

discernment of what's going on out there in this

messy time.

All right, thank you. Very good advice. And I

encourage everybody to check out anders podcast

and YouTube channel. It's Mind the Shift on

YouTube and on all of the podcast, all the places

where podcasts are. And your website is anders,

anders bowling.com. okay, so that's. We'll put

that link in the show notes as well. It's A N D E

R S B O L L I N G dot com. Thank you so much for

being here. We'll have to do this again.

It was really fun, Meredith. It's been true Joy

speaking to you today.

Yeah.

Thank you for what you're doing also with your

podcast and the other work that you do.

Appreciate it.