What is happening, everybody? I'm Larry Roberts. And I'm Sara Lohse,

and this is Branded, your comprehensive guide to creative branding. And on

this insightful episode of the podcast, we're gonna be taking

a deep dive into contact information, Business

cards, name dropping, and everything in between

when it comes to exchanging contact information.

We've talked about this a few times on different episodes whether it's how

we feel about our cards, and, we mentioned some of the horrible cards

that we got, from Podfest. But we wanna really dive into it and just

focus a whole episode on kind of some best practices

and complaints that we have and all of that stuff.

Well, you know, the thing is and this is good because we have entirely 2

different perspectives on what makes a good business

card. You know? I think mine Comes from my masculine

approach to life and the fact that I have to have this very rigid,

very strong, very thick, Very manly

card, and you seem to bring the opposite to the

table. I mean, I'm I'm fine with a basic business

card. And it's funny because I remember I think we were at Podfest. You brought

me somebody's card, and it was, like, made of metal or something.

And it It really showed the differences in

how we see things. Because in your mind, you're

like, wow. This is awesome. This guy is, like, Must be super legit, and in

my mind, I'm like, this guy is bad with money.

Well, I have no doubt that the metal cards are I mean, they're at the

The extreme of of high end business

cards. I've seen them in a couple of different Lohse, that one that you're talking

about. Then I was at another conference a few months ago. Someone else had a

metal business card, but I find it interesting because it tends to well, I

I'm gonna counter myself here, but it it it seemed applicable at the

conference that I was at a couple of months ago because it was a security

firm, and they were they, you know, they had they did private security, and you

have this metal business card that Maybe it's supposed to imply that

it's, I don't know, bulletproof or something. Who knows? But it was just

very, very impactful from a security company to have that thick

metal business card. See, I wouldn't feel more or less secure

with somebody just because their business card is metal. I don't know. We

we know that we have different views. I think they were trying to get you

to put it in their their breast pocket to cover their heart or anything. Oh,

is is it, like, is is it Kev they should have made one of them

in, like, Kevlar. That'd be kinda cool. That'd be super cool. I think,

like, with business cards, if you're going to pay, like, a premium

cause for your business cards, at least make them, like, really

cool. Like, metal, whatever. Like, the really thick ones,

whatever. I've seen and I've never seen these in person. I've seen them on, like,

Reddit and stuff. But, like, the personal trainer's card that's on

the stretchy Stuff that you have to pull it apart to

see the contact info. I've seen the divorce attorneys

out to see the the Exactly. Yeah. I gotcha. I gotcha. The divorce

attorney whose business card is perforated so he could rip it in half. So it's

like 1 goes to the wife, 1 goes to the husband. Like, things like

that that are super branded, super creative, I

love that. Yeah. But if you're just giving me a business card. All

I need is your contact info. I don't need it to be, like, metal. I'm

gonna throw it out anyway. Now I feel like I gotta recycle it. Why not?

Oh, gosh. Here we go. But why not? You gotta be memorable. How many business

cards do you get at a conference? A lot. Okay. So

what differentiates 1 card from the other? What makes you go, oh, I probably need

to look at this point or makes you even remember the person that you were

talking to you go, oh, I don't remember their name, but I remember their card

was rocking. And at Lohse, you know, you can go find that card and reach

back out to that person. What makes your business Cards stand out from everybody

else's and not get lost in that pile, which ends up where? Recycling

bin. Right here in the freaking trash can. It They're paper. We

recycle them. Those are business cards. Paper.

Recycle. Something like that. Save the trees. But the the way it is,

how do you I mean, what's the point of having a business card if it's

just gonna end up in the trash can and nobody's gonna remember it. We talked

about this a few episodes ago when I redid my cards. I added the note

section because I noticed that everybody was trying to write down something to

remember me by, and they couldn't on my old cards. Yeah. So I have a

note section so they can write something down, but

honestly, I I'm more, I guess, more judgmental about the content on

the card than the card itself? Well, I mean, it it's definitely a

combination of the 2. You really want to get into the content side of things.

Sure. I mean, what what do you need on a business card? You need contact

information. Yes. It needs to be what? Legible.

A size font that is readable. Guys? Guys?

Yeah. When you're designing your cards, whatever you design

them in, make the canvas the size of

a business card. Make it 2 inches by 3 inches so

that you see what the actual font size is.

Because if you're using font size 4, Nobody can

read your card. Yeah. And, I mean, that is that's

super frustrating when you're trying to reach out to somebody, and you're looking

at their Sara. And you can't even make out the number. You can't make out

the email address. And is more. Yeah. Less

is definitely need everything on your business card.

Gosh, dude. I I saw a couple of cards this last conference and They would

have a bio. Yeah. Everything is on the card. I'm like, what in the name

of Sam Hill are we trying to do here? The it's a, Like,

your speaker one sheet and your business card should be

2 different documents. Yeah. It's not a it's not a mini one sheet. It's

just It's not a resume. I did see someone was,

like, there was at Podfest looking for, like, job opportunities, like

freelance opportunities. Yeah. And her card was actually a

URL or or a QR code to get to her resume. That's

super smart. Do do things like that, but don't print your

resume on the business card because nobody's going to read that. Well,

I'm gonna counter a little bit too at the same time. While I do respect

a A good QR code on the back of a card. That's why I I

put them on my cards as well, but my QR code goes to my calendar

so you can book some time with me. We can have a conversation, But I

saw a couple of cards too that just had QR codes. Oh, yeah.

No. Logo and a QR code. I'm like, what is what why would I scope?

Context. No. I don't even know what it is. I don't even know what it

is. Yeah. We need context. I think every

time I put a QR code on something, I have a little note of,

like, what will happen when you scan it. Yeah. And I think

that's that's necessary because I'm not, like, I'm not just gonna it's

like opening an email from someone with an attachment that you don't recognize. Like, I

don't know where this is gonna send me. It could oh, that's interesting. I never

thought about that from a cybersecurity perspective.

Phishing scams on business cards. Oh, we just gave

people bad ideas. Well, you just gave me an idea. I'll tell you that.

No. But that that business venture.

Do best of.

No. Solutions.com. Check it out. Oh, gosh. Don't check it out.

It's not mine anymore. So but anyway but, yeah, that's interesting because you

don't know where it's going. You're just Gaining a random QR code. It could go

to literally anything. It makes me think of, like

but this is gonna date myself, but I'm not that old, so it's okay. Back

when we had, like, AOL Instant Messenger, did anybody

else have the super mature, like, boys in their,

like, 5th grade class on AOL Instant Messenger put in

their little, like, away message, click to watch a brutal

car crash, and you click it, And it's actually

porn? Yeah. That's, well, that's fishing. Yep.

So So I'm just like or that or, like, I'm gonna get rickrolled

if I scan this. Oh my god. My next business card. I have a Rick

Roll tape. You you get you just nailed it. I'm literally gonna get

some business cards made up in Rick Bro, that that's Okay. But do them my

way, and don't spend a dollar per card on them, please. Oh, yeah. No. I

definitely do it your way. I'd it's I'd spend 2¢ a card. Thank you.

Yeah. Yep. So. So okay. What should we actually put on

a business card? Name, email, website,

logo, so they know the company. I have seen people that actually

on one side will list, like, what they do, which that if you have

space for it, I think that's really smart. Because at least

then, like, they have that's context. Like, you need context. We're countering ourselves a

little bit here because we're saying that Lohse out everything that you do. Not everything,

but no. I said if there's room. I think it was Virginia Elder. We've

mentioned her a few times. Sure. I think she's the 1st person I saw do

this, and she had all the contact info on the front and it fit very

well. So then the back was just, like, like freelance

writing, show notes, SEO, like, very simp like, simple

list of, like, a few of the services that she offers, so when people look

at her card, they do know why they have it. Right. And Right. It

the space, like, it fit well.

It would the font sizes were still big enough to read, so she did it

really well. There's definitely ways you could do that very poorly. From a design

perspective, what are your thoughts there? Are you are you a horizontal Hard,

advocate, or do you do you think the verticals work well? I think, honestly,

I don't think it makes much of a difference if you're fitting the stuff on

well. I don't think I've ever done vertical Lohse because my URLs

are so long that I would have to make them too small to fit horizontally.

I mean, not vertically. Bitly link on there or something. If you have a

long URL, could you maybe just convert it to a use a URL Well,

yeah. But my email address? I'm just throwing out ideas.

Yeah. Like, my my email address is really long, so, like, it wouldn't fit on

one line if I put in a readable font size if I did

vertical. Gotcha. Got no. And But I've seen people do it. If it works like,

I'm actually there's a card right next to me that's vertical. Oh, look at that.

And it's Hold that part back up. That's kind of interesting. So there's some interesting,

there's some some nice components to that core. I don't want people to just be

able to stalk her. I'm gonna cover up the Actual scanning code?

So we have a we have a headshot on there. Mhmm.

Have rounded corners. There's rounded corners on it.

It's for a podcast, and it's actually in Spanish.

Okay. It,

But it has a URL I mean, QR code that I'm assuming is gonna go

to her podcast, but I don't actually know. It hasn't, like, her handle.

I'm hoping that's for all of her social media, or else that's confusing because it's

not labeled with which social media it is. And then on the

back is an explanation of what the

podcast is. Did we have just regular ink there? It looked like maybe

it was some foil embossed Inks or something? This it's it's just

regularly printed. It's regularly printed? I thought I saw some reflection there that looked

aluminum. So No. No. That's just the lighting. But what's

interesting with this one is, like, it then I don't know if this was on

purpose, but you flip it this way to read it because if you just flip

it over, it's it's upside down. Okay. So I'm not sure if that was an

accident or if that was on purpose, but the card itself is visually appealing.

Yeah. So I think that one was done well.

But if you're not gonna do a business card, like, what's your take on the

digital ones? Yeah. I think digital has its Lohse.

And For a while, I was switching over to only doing digital because

I'm like, nobody does business cards anymore, and I used to even say that line

when I'm in networking. Nobody does business cards anymore. And then 14 people

ask you for a business card. Everybody wants my business card. So I don't care

who's telling you that nobody uses business cards anymore. They're not out

there networking. I can promise you that so

many people still want that physical card. Now I don't know if it's just because

they're programmed to ask for it because, traditionally speaking, that's what we're used

to doing, but I just don't see where a digital business

card is sufficient for representation. I

think you need a traditional card along with a digital

option. Mhmm. And that's why, well, I don't Have a

digital card or one of those singular cards where you tap? Because

here here and this is gonna send me on a tangent, but I freaking hate

Those tap cards, those are stupid. They never work. Everybody's

like, well, tap my phone, and you're sitting there for 5 minutes trying to tap

it trying to tap it. No. That didn't work. Try to tap In that time,

you could have just typed your email address into my inbox. You could have just

said, what's your name, man, and and and put it in your phone as a

contact. Those things are stupid. The technology's not

there. Everybody's on different OSes on their phones or they have different

manufacturers, And not all the cards work well with other phones, and it's

just pure chaos. So digital cards, they

have their place, but we're definitely not there yet. You need to have that physical

card, and one of the things that I do to supplement a

digital option is if you look at my phone,

my wallpaper is a QR code that takes you

to well, for right now, I'm using LinkedIn because trying to build my LinkedIn

presence. Mhmm. So I'd love to have people connect with me over on LinkedIn.

So I chose LinkedIn, made me a QR code, and use it here. So if

somebody wants to exchange contact information that way. I go here, scan my QR

code. That takes you to my LinkedIn, and I make sure that we connect there.

So that's my tangent On digital business

cards, I think they serve a purpose, but they have not taken over the

market. There's still a very, very strong use case

or traditional cards as well. Yeah. I've I have, like, a

few like, I'm kind of on the fence with it. Someone

actually asked me prior to Podfest If they should pay the money

to get the business cards printed or if their digital card would be okay.

And For her, I said digital would be okay

because of her goals. Like, she wasn't building a business. She was kind of just,

like, meeting people and networking, and it was very casual. So in that case,

it's like we're getting close. It would have been, like, a rush printing job or,

like, just the get the ones that are, like, the 1 hour pickup, which never

look as good. In this case, I think the digital is fine,

because it it's not very, like, high stakes. But, like,

I personally like, I'm, like, I'm going to have my cards. But I feel like

with the digital ones too, there's some that are

just click to add to contacts or something, Which is interesting

because it's, like, I don't add my business cards to my phone contacts. I add

them to my business contacts. I don't I don't get that either. So I'm pretty

sure I have some people in my contact list. I have no idea who they

are, and I'm never gonna reach out to them. No. Never. I'm not and I

I don't go through my contacts on my phone and go, let's see. Is that

a business contact, or is it somebody? Yeah. No. If I don't remember I don't

get that. I'm not gonna remember you. I'm not gonna remember your business. Well, now

you're in my phone. I don't care. I'm still not gonna remember you. I

also like so we were I was having a an issue

getting the, the a URL that

I forwarded to, like, show up correctly. Mhmm. And

I so I went in on my phone, and I cleared my history and closed

all my tabs. And that's when I remembered that, like, 14

people had me scan their digital business card, and all it does

is pull it up in a tab. Yeah. Yeah. And so I just lost

all that contact info just from clearing my browser. Yeah. So,

you'll you you don't even remember their names? No. I have no idea who they

were. If guys, if anyone at Podfest had me scan their digital business card and

I have not reached out to you, reach out to me, please, because I'm sorry.

I lost your info. Yes. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. It's not

like we don't remember you by, you know, because we're being rude. There

was, like, 2,000 people there. You meet a ton of people, and

there's no way you can keep them all straight. Yeah. You know, one of the

things that I saw that I thought was super cool from a tech perspective

was, the the what is it? NameDrop with your if you're on the new

Apple, what, Lohse 17, you can just take your phones

and just Bump them together, and then your phone lights up.

It's got this really cool look, and you exchange information.

But at the same time, that's the personal contact information. That's not Business

information. Exactly. Well, it was cool to see it hap I was like, oh, that's

the coolest thing ever. And it's nice little graphic that lights up. Yeah. You know,

I'm like, oh, that's the coolest. And it is kinda cool, and it's

easy. It's cool for personal. It's cool for personal, but I I just

don't Sara the value from the business

perspective unless it's just somebody that you know, know,

know, know you can reach out too. You know, there are a couple of people

that I did that with that I know I wanted their personal

information because whatever their services are or whatever information

we were exchanging was extremely relevant, and it was

something that I wanted to follow-up on and build that personal relationship.

But the personal word there is what's critical. The the

vast majority of folks that I met, while I wanna stay in contact with them

and I'd love to learn more about their businesses, it's it's not on a

personal level. So that's that's where this functionality comes

into play. You have to determine whether or not this is a personal contact that

you wanna create. Maybe it's a personal business Contact. You know? And now we're

splitting hairs. But, a lot of this digital stuff,

man, I'm dating myself, but I just like a

good paper card. I just like a good business card in my something I can

touch and feel with a nice texture that I can remember and I can

put it in my save pile. And that's pretty funny because I just remember that's

what I was telling folks at Podfest. You know? Because you get so many different

cards. You would say this goes in my save pile, which is my wallet. Yeah.

Yeah. And I put it in my wallet, and that's because I knew I wanted

to reach out to that person. I knew I wanted to extend that conversation. So

if anyone saw Larry put your business card in, like, his backpack

or his pocket, you're not gonna hear from him. Larry about that.

Reach out to me, though. I'd love to hear from you. Don't

call us. We'll call you. Don't call Yeah. You like that. We won't call you.

Call us. But but, honestly, I think I think 99% of

all the cards that I got went into my save pile, but it was more

of just making people exchanging cards feel good and let them know that I am

gonna follow-up because Yeah. Guarantee you every one of those cards that I got, I

followed up on. Yeah. I sent personal emails to them saying, hey. Great

meeting you. Thank you for following up, and, you know, that kinda takes us to

a whole another point. How many business cards do you get that you never follow-up

on? Well, that's also why when we were talking

about, Like, our expo table and making sure that we get

like, we're able to convert leads the way we need to. You need to make

sure that you're in, like, in control of the contact

Because you just said for, like, how many don't do we not reach out to?

The same thing with the other people. How many people got our cards and are

never gonna reach out to us? For sure. 100%. So when you're paying to be,

like, a sponsoring in an expo hall, you need to make sure that you're the

1 in the power to reach out to these people, because you

cannot guarantee that they will ever reach out to you. And they might really be

interested in your services, but they're overwhelmed. They're just, like, unwinding.

They might completely forget. So make sure that you capture their

information. But jumping back to that, like, personal versus business,

so my friend who had asked me about the digital card, she then sends me

what it would look like, and it looked great, But it had

her cell phone number. And so I

have, like, a free Google phone number that I put on my

business cards and my website. I know we're different on this because I don't think

you do. So but I use my Google number

on all of my, like, public thing so that my

personal cell phone number isn't, like, out there. But I'll

still if, like, if I meet somebody, even if it is for business purposes,

and I know that, like, I would talk to this person in the

real world. This could this is a connection that won't just be

transactional. I'll still give them my cell phone number just because it's

easier for me, and I don't even have my Google number memorized. I have to

look at my business card, But I have the option.

I get to decide that. Cell phone memorized, do you? I I do. I've had

the same ones since I was 12. Oh, what is it? Clever.

Do you have your credit card number memorized? What is it?

No. No. I don't have But anyone from junior high or high school, if you

wanna get in touch with me, it's the same number.

That's funny that they're the same personal number for man, It's

gotta be 20 years. It's gotta be. You know? It's been I got my 1st

cell phone when I was 12 or 13, and I'm 28. So I've

had this number forever. I can't remember having a different number. But, anyways

but no. And I I can see what your the the point there too, man,

is from a safety perspective. Yeah. You can track location from a cell

phone number. Yeah. And you don't want some creep creeping up on you, tracking you

down from your cell phone number. So it's Super, super smart on your part.

Like, I I might be able to choose who I give my business cards to,

but I can't choose what they do with it. So you can find my business

card on the street somewhere. Right. And, like, someone can

easily just be like, oh, look, a phone number. I'm gonna call her. And so

I wanna be in control of who gets my personal phone number and who gets

my business number, And I've had times where it's, like, I give out my card,

they contact me through the business number, and I switch them over to personal just

because it's easier for me. And I'll tell them, like, hey. This is my business

number. I'm gonna text you from my other phone number. But but have that control,

and you're saying that's important. Exactly. Yeah. No. When my friend showed me

that hers was her personal phone number, I made her change it. I'm like, for

your safety, I'm like, this makes me uncomfortable. Sure. And

I'm making you change. You're gonna go get a Google number or remove your phone

number completely. Yep. Super, super smart there. But let let me go

back to to following up on those business cards because not just from

conferences, but, man, anytime you get a business card, take the time to go

back and just drop a note to the person They gave it to you, if

you can read it on their business card. Reach out to them because

I promise you, if you're looking to leverage these

contacts, If you just take that step to follow-up,

you're gonna be 90%, and I'm just pulling that number out of the air, but

you're gonna be so much more successful than those people that

are networking that do not follow-up on those cards.

Take the time. Go home. If you want to, create a spreadsheet

and enter that information in a spreadsheet so you have all of these

contacts. Do something with that card. It's it's

not So much as an insult to the person that gave you the card, they

kind of expect to give it to you. And believe it or not, expectations

are you're not gonna follow-up. So if you do follow-up, oh my

gosh. You're gonna make such an impact on that person that the odds of you

doing business together are exponentially, I said 90%, we'll just say

Exponentially higher than they would have been if you did the same thing that

every other person that gets their card does, and that's just throw it in a

drawer. And then after about 6 months, you go, man, my drawer shirt is dirty,

and you dump it in the trash. And what is it? Like, you miss a

100% of the shots you don't take? You miss a 100% of the connections You

don't actually reach out to. Oh my gosh. I'm I'm a

philosopher. That is so deep.

Shallow as a shower.

So I like, forever, I was super guilty of

just getting cars and not doing anything with them, but I always kept

them. So when I launched my company, I had a whole

box, like, a shoe box filled with business cards.

And I was like, well, At one point, they gave me their card,

which that means that they're giving me permission to then reach out to them. Yeah.

They didn't put a time limit on it. So when I first

launched my company, that's how I created my 1st email list. So I

took all of those business cards and I put them into my email list, And

then I sent an email to all of them saying, like, if you're getting this

email, we met at some point. It may have been, like, A

year or 2 ago, but we met and you gave me your card. Like, I

I remember you. I'm Yeah. Like, I like, we

we did this. And I even said, like, this is the just an update.

Here's what's going on with me. I started this company. Here's what I'm doing.

And if you're still interested in staying in touch, Like, just stay on

my list. If not, feel free to unsubscribe. And a couple people

unsubscribed, totally fine. I think I put a note saying we'll just avoid eye

contact next time we see each other, because I had to guilt them a little

bit to stay. Sure. Yeah. I mean, marketing. But a lot of people

stayed on, and I still, like, kept them. And, like, who knows if that'll turn

into something, but I it has an opportunity now. Yeah. Way more than

it did when they were sitting in the shoe box under my desk. No. That's

great. And I think the point is just make sure that you follow-up. And

there's no expiration date, when that follow-up can happen, but the sooner

you do it, The better chance of establishing that relationship and building on that

simple exchange of contact information that you had with that person.

So, hopefully, with this episode, we've exchanged information

with you that you find valuable. And if you do, do us a favor, smash

that subscribe button so we can continue to bring you these amazing episodes each

and every week. And with that, I'm Larry Roberts.

I'm sorry, Larry. We'll talk to you next week.