Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.

I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids, and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.

After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.

In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings, and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.

Here's today's episode.

Today I have a really fascinating guest.

Her name is Claire Twomey.

She's based in Dublin and she is founder of Ireland's first ADHD Coaching Collective, a platform dedicated to empowering ADHD is to thrive.

And Claire is an experienced international speaker and facilitator where she also delivers programs and support to schools, colleges, workplaces and sports clubs.

She works with professionals, entrepreneurs, creatives, and also in the public and private sector sector organizations.

So, Claire, welcome to the podcast.

I know we're going to delve into lots of fascinating topics today, so welcome.

Thank you so much, Kate.

I'm so delighted we were able to get the time eventually.

Yes, and, and yes, and eventually is the operative word because we sort of had to reschedule for a few different times.

And I think it's really important to share a little bit about why I always try and make this podcast the most accessible it can be.

And most of my guests are neurodivergent, so we always understand that there's, you know, differences in energy and perhaps motivation, but also just burnout and life.

And Claire, you have suffered with long Covid and the impact of that on how it shows up sort of every day, but alongside your ADHD as well.

And I've sort of discussed this in different episodes, but not really gone into the depths of it.

And that's why I thought it'd be really interesting to get you on so other people can hear your story and maybe reflect on on their own as well.

So maybe you can explain a little bit about your situation.

Yeah, of course.

So I contracted Covid right at the very beginning.

So there were no vaccines at the time.

It was the 20th of March, 2020 and I was living at home with my parents at the time.

And all three of us contracted it and all three of us were having very different experiences with it.

Kate, my mom actually ended up in ICU and was ventilated.

So at the time I didn't think that I was that sick, right?

Because it was.

I was comparing it to the extreme version that my mom was having.

And of course, at that point it was being kind of packaged as this 14 day virus.

You recover after it and it only affects people who.

The elderly or immunocompromised, Right.

And I was like, I don't take any of those boxes.

So it was, first of all, it was a shock.

And then second of all, I didn't really realize how sick I was.

And it was actually months later when I was in therapy for support and realized how.

On how unwell I was.

So now what happens now is, you know, I still have lingering chronic fatigue.

I really struggle with motivation.

And what interrupted us having this podcast, as you know, was because if I catch anything, a virus or an infection or a flu or a cold or a hangover, like if I've been out late or something the night before, Kate, it wipes me, okay?

Like absolutely wipes me.

And I have never experienced this before, so it doesn't go away, right.

And it's funny because I ended up doing a lot of advocacy work and we were being given out to.

Because we were calling it Long Covid.

And I'm.

To this day, I'm still like that most perfect description of what this is and what it's doing for people.

So when I first was sick, you know, I. I did have hallucinations, insane fever.

I was in bed for five days.

And at one point, Kate, I actually thought I was dying.

It was so intense.

I hadn't eaten anything, I couldn't drink.

I could.

I was drinking water and couldn't keep it down and.

And I was monitored remotely from the hospital.

So I did go into hospital and they sent me home and I was monitored remotely.

And we had equipment and medication and everything sent to the house.

So I was, you know, supported.

I knew there was somebody there, but it was terrifying, absolutely terrifying.

Eventually the fever broke and my 14 day period lapsed.

And so I just got back up and went back to all the things that I do, Kate, which is yoga, walking.

At the time I was doing CrossFit and I was in.

Not the CrossFit area.

I was in a gym and I was running.

I see swam, I bonded.

I yoga every day.

Like I was really healthy.

And so we were in a lockdown in Ireland at the time.

So I was doing these pieces at home, okay.

And it was about another four weeks before I went back to work.

And it was an online session.

My first day back was online.

And after about two and a half hours, I felt incredibly unwell again.

I developed a migraine, and I have never had a migraine before in my life.

My brain fog was insane and my body just.

I couldn't hold myself up in the chair.

And so I have to step back out again.

And so I went through this period where I felt like I was going through Covid all over again.

And throughout the rest of 2020, Kate, I made several attempts to get back to work and I kept having what we now call flare ups.

Okay.

But in 2020, it was so severe and something to do with like, the viral load or the pathogen that was stuck in my body.

Every time I had a flare, it was as if I was going through Covid again.

And I would be testing, convinced I had picked it up again.

But the tests were negative.

So I was lucky because I was attached to the hospital.

I was an outpatient, right?

So I was able to go back in there and say, what is this?

What's going on?

You know?

And they were starting to see their doctors, their nurses, their admin staff.

They were also.

Some people were also having difficulty.

So they could see something wasn't right.

Okay.

But at the same time, case, I had never felt so alone because people couldn't grasp it because I looked, well, right?

What does a sick person look like?

Right?

And so in certain environments, I was being what we call medically gaslit, okay.

Like, I had people who were denying my experiences, who were telling me I should get over myself.

I was just having the most horrific experience.

And so at that time, I was like, like, so I am late, diagnosed adhd.

I've experienced trauma and mental health challenges before.

I knew that this was different.

Okay.

And so I also was very lucky, Kate.

My gp, my doctor, the practice where I was growing up, they were phenomenal because they had experienced post viral fatigue before.

They were telling me, it's not in your head care.

We've seen it before.

But I was infuriated.

And so the US and the uk, I turned to Google and went looking for resources online because you guys were a little bit ahead of us, right?

It had hit there first, so people were starting to talk about long Covid and there was group forming.

And so I was able to engage with people and made some phenomenal contacts who we still check in each other to this day, but there was nobody talking about it in Ireland.

And I was getting awful grief from work.

I ended up setting up something in Ireland.

Then, right I set up the community in Ireland and that was part of where I am today.

Like, I feel very lucky and like to be able to meet with you today and have fun and enjoy this because there are people who started the journey with me, Kate, and they're still in pretty bad conditions.

They have never returned to work.

So I ended up quitting my job.

So I was social care worker.

I made an attempt, actually.

First I quit the full time job and found a part time job, thinking maybe I could manage that better.

That didn't help.

And then in January 2021, I handed in my notice and I was like, I have to work with my body and let this heal.

Especially Kate, because nobody had any answers.

Yeah, right.

With no answers, can I ask, where.

Did the ADHD diagnosis come in?

Was that before or after?

So this is actually funny.

I got diagnosed with ADHD in 2015.

So I was five years aware of my ADHD.

I had worked with my coach and I had built a life that enabled me to mind myself, to function the way that I needed to.

Right.

And I often credit the journey that I had been on with my diagnosis to the strength that I found and the like.

If, you know, 10, no, not 10 years ago, 20 years ago, if you'd have told me that I would have experienced and did what I did, I'd have laughed at you.

They'd been like, no way.

Like, I ended up on national tv being interviewed in print media, doing other podcasts like this, all talking about long Covid and my advocacy.

That part of the advocacy in me and the confidence and the self esteem that came from finally identifying and be comfortable with who I was and what I needed.

So my ADHD diagnosis massively supported my ability to endure what I had to, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

So interesting.

So you got that diagnosis five years before, obviously contracting Covid and going through what you did, which sounds horrific.

I mean, I have a.

Not, it's not similar, but I contracted Covid right at the very beginning as well.

I went away for February half term with my family.

We went to.

Went skiing in a big resort in Italy and every nationality under the sun was in this sort of all inclusive hotel.

And we came back and I'm convinced my daughter picked it up in the kids club because she got really sick on holiday, coughing and, and everything.

But because she was a toddler at the time, she sort of just got over it.

Within about five days she started a really chesty cough.

I came back.

So this was like the very end of Feb.

Early March, and I Had what I do.

What I knew was Covid and I called up the NHS helpline.

I called up all sorts and said no, absolutely not.

If you've not been to China or Iran, I seem to think it was.

It wasn't even Italy at the time and there's no way you could have this.

COVID 19 corona virus.

I was so, so ill.

So ill.

Took me weeks and weeks and weeks to get over it.

I think my.

I lost my sense of smell.

It took about six weeks to come back.

My throat, my chest, nothing was.

It was like months before I was normal again.

And I say in inverted commas.

I actually gave it to my mother in law who got very, very ill and I felt horrific.

She was almost hospitalized.

It was horrendous time.

And what I noticed after that, and I still don't know that if it's connected or not, but I felt like my perimenopausal symptoms came on really quickly.

Gray hair, it was like I sort of like aged something in me, something cellular aged within me very quickly.

Obviously pandemic for kids.

ADHD symptoms had already been there, but everything felt accelerated.

It was like someone pressed fast forward and everything.

They've been lying under dormant within me and listening to you right now.

And I've sort of talked about it, but it's been a while, you know, like Covid kind of feels like it still feels a bit triggering in a way to talk about when you start thinking about it kind of feels like this dystopian nightmare that we've kind of put to bed and there's little reminders that come up.

And then when you talk about it, it's like I was so ill and my adhd, everything kind of came out from there.

Because I got diagnosed in the November of 2020.

My perimenopausal symptoms started around the same time.

A bit later on.

It's hard to unpick it all a little bit.

Do you.

Are you hearing similar stories?

And I guess the people that you've been in touch with, who've suffered with Long Covid, what percentage are neurodivergent?

I just want to speak to something you said there in relation to myself because I got diagnosed with perimenopause last August.

So the horm.

My hormonal experience while I was dealing with Long Covid was phenomenal.

And in the group, so there's a group with nearly 4,000 members in Ireland, there's still people joining because they're still people only realizing this is what's happening for Me, you know, years on after getting diagnosed or not getting diagnosed, but contracting Covid, you know, at the start or midway through.

But the amount of women, I don't have percentages because I'm.

I'm not a numbers girl.

My brain, my brain, I'm absolutely dyscalculia.

But yeah, and to be honest, this is part of the problem, Kate.

It's massively, to this day, still under researched, you know, but every single woman that I met has had hormonal issues, has had fluctuations with their cycle, has had full blown PMDD that they had never, ever experienced before.

PMDD is an official diagnosis, but symptoms that equate to that that they had never experienced.

Okay, and so it's like what you said, it's like, how do you pull that all apart and what do you treat?

Right.

So it became really difficult then, of course, and you had to find somebody who had the.

Find a medical professional who had the patience and was happy to respond to what you were describing.

You know, and in terms of your question around, what's the percentage of people who are neurodivergent who have contracted Covid and experienced long Covid?

I'm sorry, I actually don't know that off the top of my head either.

But when I disclosed my diagnosis in the group, then other people started sharing that they were too.

Right.

And I spoke to somebody recently, and again, I can't remember the researcher's name, but somebody was telling me about research that we know says that neurodivergence are more likely to be unwell and to have health issues on an ongoing basis.

You know?

Yeah.

As you're speaking, I'm writing down all the different conditions I hear time and time again alongside especially neurodivergent women.

And these include mast cell activation syndrome, histamine intolerance, inflammation.

So I'm sort of using that as the umbrella term.

Chronic fatigue, pots, hypermobility, gut issues, migraines, pmdd, hormonal issues, and conditions such as endometriosis and polycystic ovary syndrome.

The list is ongoing.

And we're creating now, like this, this umbrella and Venn diagram of so many overlapping conditions which all kind of are sort of cellular inflammatory.

So it doesn't surprise me that Long Covid is just part of this picture, this very hazy picture, which unfortunately, you know, there's such little research.

But what I do know is I'm just finding the book here.

Dr. James Custo, I don't know if you've read his book.

How to Thrive with ADHD is a Fantastic book because he's.

First of all, he's a doctor, a psychiatrist, but he has investigated the many, many co occurring conditions of adhd such as fatigue, migraines, neuro inflammation and mast cell activation, pain and adhd.

There's a whole thing here about COVID and Long Covid in this book.

He's been on the podcast.

I highly recommend anyone to listen to that, that episode because not only is he validating everyone this experience, he's beginning to understand it.

He's doing more research, he's collaborating with different specialists across the world.

I know he's working with the top professors in these different areas so people can finally get these answers.

And it's not, you know, oh, I've got this and I've got this and it's all a coincidence.

It's like, no, you, you have got this.

He calls it, I think it's like a super syndrome and being able to understand this better because as you know, you know, to be gaslit and to be told it's in your head and then you're questioning yourself and you question your own resilience and is this all in my head?

Am I going crazy?

It, it makes, it exacerbates the stress levels even more.

And as we know, cortisol increases inflammation in our body.

So it's kind of this cycle that we're desperate to break.

Like no one wants to live like this.

What have you noticed is helping what's working.

Let's give some people some hope.

How do they advocate with themselves?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I just want to say as well, when you were describing that book to me, and I'm going to go and put that on my list now to get.

And you, you mentioned that the doctor is validating, right?

That is the to me first step, right.

I never, when I went into the hospital, when I sat in front of doctors, I never had unrealistic expectations.

I knew the whole world was dealing with something new that was landing in our laps for the first time.

I didn't want them or expect them to fix it and to have all the answers, right.

But it is that, it's that validation piece that to me in like is is key in terms of us being able to move forward, to fight us, right?

If we feel like we're supported, if we feel like people believe us, we have strength and error.

And you need that.

Like I work as a coach and you need that in yourself to go and walk in and get your assessment, right.

You need to believe in yourself and believe what's happening.

For you to be able to walk in and tell the doctor, I don't feel well, this is going on for me.

So when people are, you know, throwing their hands up or telling someone, that's ridiculous, that's not possible.

We have to be really careful and think about what impact is that having on them and their ability to move forward with whatever is going on for them, you know.

And so I found that, right, the medical model wasn't supporting me here.

It wasn't working for me.

One of the things that they had suggested and started trialing in Ireland, and they're still doing to this day, was a drug called ldn.

Low dose naltrexone, I think is how you pronounce it.

And so it was used for people generally, like a high percentage of it was used for people who had overdosed and they were using it like 1% or 5 or so.

1 milligram or 5 milligram.

Okay.

But it didn't work for me because I was already on a stimulant with my ADHD medication and it just made me feel more anxious.

So when I wasn't getting answers and when I realized it wasn't going away, I sat back and I said, okay, my body is trying to tell me something here.

Now, I know I was fortunate because I didn't have a mortgage.

I wasn't paying rent at the time.

I was living with my parents.

I had the opportunity to step back.

A lot of the people that I have met, Kate, didn't, because they were parents and they have bills to pay.

So I was supported to leave my job.

And so I rested case.

I literally rested this thing out of my body.

Now when I say this thing out of my body, I mean the extreme experience that I was having for the first three and a half years.

Okay.

And then what I did was I turned to.

So I mentioned earlier, I'm a yogi.

So I would have experienced like a very spiritual person.

And I would have experienced Reiki and healing and acupuncture and all of that before.

Before.

So I turned Chinese medicine to functional medicine.

And I went to absolutely everybody and anybody who was interested in talking to me.

Right.

So I did acupuncture for about two years and that was a game changer.

And I actually found a paper this morning on acupuncture for long Covid.

I must give it to you actually, so you can put it in the session notes.

I went on a weekly basis for about nine months, and then we reduced it to two weeks and then three weeks as we Went off and that enables me to like he tackled specific, he responded to the symptoms I was having.

Right.

We, we tackled the symptoms I was experiencing.

Another thing I tried was kinesiology and homeopathy.

Right.

So using combinations of herbs and supplements to support those things that you mentioned.

The inflammation, the.

So my histamine levels went through the roof, Kate.

Like I'm currently.

I saw someone describe this recently in the long Covid group.

You're allergic to your own tears, right?

With, with the increase in the histamine I would have experienced or suffered from hay fever, you know, coming into the summer months before.

But it was like on another level since COVID On another level, Kate.

Like I've been away and abroad in the last year and a half and I have had massive flare ups where I can't even see out through my eyes.

My skin all around it is raw red.

They're itchy, burning and constant weeping.

And that is a common experience for many, many people with long Covid.

I used to do salt rooms.

Okay.

Because I suffered a lot with my lungs.

I had a huge difficulty breathing and that went on for quite a while.

And I experienced shortness of breath and also it put pressure on my heart.

Like I was having heart palpitations a lot.

So I was doing salt rooms to try and help clear the lungs, relax the lungs.

I was doing breathing techniques like kind of stronger.

Like I would have done WIM HOF before and I would have done different types of breath work through the yoga training that I have done.

But I was trying really intense one on one breathwork sessions to try and help calm the parasympathetic nervous system and to try and expand the lungs.

I did eventually get in with a long covered physio and what we did there was retraining my lungs on how to breathe.

Right.

So you know, the way the body and the brain stores memory from what we experience.

So my lungs were like constricting, they weren't working properly.

So I literally had to learn how to breathe again.

What else did I do?

I really watched my food and I was eating like a lot of watermelon and tomatoes.

Like you know, anything that was like anti inflammatory foods basically.

What's interesting is tomatoes are full of histamine.

So yeah, I mean I'm just, I'd be interested to know if you.

If that was part of it.

But I, I think I love tomatoes.

But I'm also aware that I'm sort of quite histamine intolerant.

So I'm like, oh, I'd like pull back on certain things that got histamine and.

But yeah, I mean, I can hear it.

What you're saying is like your every aspect you looked at and you had that privilege to be able to have time and rest and use all this amazing like holistic advice and guidance and medicine.

And you talked about the nervous system.

If you think about again, I'm not a doctor and I'm kind of like speculating here, but I can only imagine that Covid and what that's doing to us on a nervous system situation and also from a cellular perspective is putting us in like stress mode.

It's putting in this like fight or flight mode.

Like our body's literally fighting.

So our nervous system is going to be fighting and that increases all the stress response, the inflammation in our body.

So tackling nervous system regulation and really kind of trying to bring in more of this parasympathetic state in our nervous system for you was that the bigger picture for you is like your nervous system regulation.

One of my appointments, a doctor said to me, I was asking what is going on with these like recurring COVID infections that it feels like I'm having?

And he was saying, well, it sounds like so what we knew.

What I knew for me personally at the time and then what other people started to talk about as well was that when I made an attempt to walk to the ice.

So I remember walking to the ice cream shop one day, right?

And it's a 10 minute walk around the corner from my house and halfway through I had to sit down.

I was panting, I was sweating, I was mortified.

I had to sit down on the ground because my heart was racing.

I had no idea what was going on my body.

I was scared and I was like, like, what's going on?

Like what is the trigger?

And so it's the stress, right?

It's like so when we're exercising, when we're movement moving, the body starts to then try and protect itself, right?

And so the body, the physical body had been through a trauma with COVID and so I had to bring it back into the parasympathetic nervous system and to help it kind of heal from that trauma, right?

That like.

And I would have been so someone who practiced that regularly, right, with yoga and stuff before.

But it was so hard and so uncomfortable to do this post Covid.

It was incredibly difficult.

I actually, I couldn't do it with myself.

I couldn't bring myself through it.

I have to do it supported.

So either breath work, facilitator.

I was Attending with a meditation teacher.

We would meet once a week for an hour.

The last thing I want to say about the nervous system regulation is I see this with people I work with.

I see this with family members.

When we're used to that stress response, when we're used to that fight or flight, it can be really uncomfortable for people to slip in to rest and digest because it feels alien to them.

Right.

And so that's terrifying in itself.

And what I can say to that is, you know, get someone to hold your hand with you or to hold your arm, like your shoulders, and to just let you know.

So, like those incidents that my parents were saying, well, we call an ambulance.

And I was like, no, just sit beside me, rub my back, breathe with me, help me to tell the body and the brain that it's fine, that it's okay.

Because.

And the main reason case that I was telling them not to call an ambulance was because I knew that people were going to tell me, oh, you're just being anxious, off you go.

I knew I was going to be gaslit again, you know.

Yeah.

And that in itself probably increases panic and stress as well.

I think it's so important, you know, we talk about the nervous system because very often we've not even thought about it.

Like, it's just not been like, okay, that's the root, that's the foundation of what impacts our health, and it impacts our sleep and our gut health and our hormonal health and our adrenal health and all these different things with adhd, for us to find that rest and digest state, that parasympathetic state doesn't come naturally to us, you know, long Covid or not.

We are almost wired to be in that stress response state because that's where stuff gets done.

That's where we feel productive.

That's where we feel like, you know, if I just stay in this place, it'll be fine.

Like, I'll be able to just get through this.

And I.

And I have to constantly pull myself back.

Only yesterday I had a day where I actively didn't put in meetings.

And I was like, I'm just gonna have a day where I can catch up on admin and do all the things, not have any sessions.

And.

And there was just this underlying sense of feeling of unease and not feeling settled, of I should be doing more, I should be doing more.

And I have to constantly talk to myself back again and go, this is safe.

It's safe to be able to just relax and not have meetings booked in all the time and it's okay.

And I have to constantly, and this is me is, you know, I've been doing this for years, I'm coaching other people.

So I think it's maybe just a reflection that are what we've been conditioned and what may be kind of within us has always been this sympathetic stress related stress response state.

But if we want to move out of the chronic fatigue and the pain and the many other things that we find ourselves embroiled in, not that any of this is our fault at all, but if we can find ways, like you say, whether it's holistically or through, through meditation or cold water or nature, whatever works for us to find more regulated micro moments throughout the day, I think that helps a lot.

Would you say that now, like how do you find yourself on a day to day basis?

But obviously you're running a business, you're helping lots of other people.

How do you help yourself find this regulated space stayed.

I was very lucky, Kate, that when I did leave the area of social care, that I had already completed part of my training for coaching.

And so I waited a few months and then took on a few clients.

And just what you were saying there about, you know, finding certain moments in the day staying regulated, I was living a life of pacing, right for, for, for five.

I still am today.

These days I have massive gaps between I, I have two to three blocks a day and I have massive gaps between those two to three blocks.

I don't work every day of the week and I have a like a limit on how many people I take on at any time.

And I'm very conscious of that.

And one thing that I found actually Kate, really difficult to do was rescheduling when I wasn't able.

And I found that really because of like my upbringing, society, expectations, productivity, I found it really difficult, especially at the very beginning case my clients would have been informed the status of my health, right?

And everybody was fantastic.

Everybody was so supportive and so understanding and funnily enough, I were me.

I was meeting people who were going through similar things with other differences, illnesses and various things.

So I didn't want it to impact me as a coach, right?

And so I protected that a lot.

But what's happening to me now?

So one of the suggestions for managing my symptoms was go back on the pill, okay?

And so I had been off of contraception for years because of my, I was a vegan for food eater, I practiced yoga, I had come off everything.

The only thing I was on was my ADHD medication.

And I was so.

Well, best version of me, top health of my life.

So they were like, let's go back in the pill.

Because the hormonal pieces we talked about earlier.

And so I decided to come off that in February.

No, in January 24th.

So last.

Last year.

Okay.

And of course, all of the hormonal stuff came flooding back.

And this meant, Kate, that I was out of whack for two weeks of every month from the day of my ovulation to the day of my last bleed.

I was a nightmare.

I felt uncomfortable in my own skin.

My skin was crawling.

I had insane imposter syndrome and anxiety coming at me.

There was absolutely no explanation.

Nothing had changed.

It was impacting my energy, my ability to get off the couch, to get outside, to want to see, see people.

My bleed in itself was just the worst experience I'd ever had.

It was unmanageable, you know, So I was waiting for a while and eventually got to see a specialist.

And they have said, yeah, this is perimenopause.

And most likely that you have PMDD that you've.

We haven't managed before, you know, that I didn't know about.

So I then had to go and do the symptom management all over again.

Right.

And I think that's like what you were saying about, like, how, you know, keeping a stress down is so important for people with chronic illness because if you get into a good space and you have structure and a routine and you know how to respond to things, like when you have a flare up or if you catch something, it's.

It's really important.

But I kind of have this.

It's a trigger K. It's like, it's a fear, you know, what's this going to look like?

How long is this going to take?

And it takes up all of your energy to manage it.

Right.

So in a general sense, you know, I have come so far, right?

Like I am running a business.

I do talks, I go meet people.

And I flew to, you know, the ADHD conference in the US I've got connections over there, like, but when I do things like that, I have to have massive periods so of time to just flake and recover, you know.

So the hormonal thing that was happening to me for a few months, it's kind of what you call it a little bit more manageable now.

So I didn't go down the route of HRT yet because there's cancer on both sides of my family.

And I just.

And there was a recent cancer experience in the Family.

So I decided to hold that off.

But we've tried a couple of different other things.

And so that's given me in the last few months a little bit more like zest, vitality.

Right.

So I've been able to increase the acupuncture, the yoga, the saunas, the water again.

But it's exhausting, Kate, because when something flares up, you have to go again.

You know, it's a constant loop.

Like, every person I meet who has chronic illness is exhausted because they're still trying to work, they're still trying to be moms if they're parents.

Right.

They're still trying to socialize and maintain their friendships while also managing this whole other version of themselves, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

I think a lot of people can relate to that.

I mean, just in itself, to be neurodivergent is exhausting, you know, just that the brain in itself.

And to not have had answers and to not have understood yourself and to question yourself and not trust yourself and to be questioned by others and to not have this predictability of who you're going to show up, especially as women with our hormones, like you say this two weeks of the month of just feeling even worse than you normally feel, or perhaps just not understanding, like, what is it?

It's just so important to, to state this, that no wonder if someone's sort of, you know, criticizing themselves that they can't keep up with the housework, the washing, the tidying, the cooking, the self care, the exercise, all of that.

It's.

It's not, it's not, you're not doing anything wrong and you are enough.

It's just that you're dealing with so much more than maybe many other people are.

And just to have that acknowledgement of it.

And I don't want to leave people feeling, you know, low or hope hopeless, because I think these conversations, as upsetting as they can be to hear or to maybe reflect on or to look back on, I think that if we can stop the next generation, we can have another chapter of our lives with better awareness, new understanding, and more empowerment.

Empowerment to self advocate of, to say, right, actually, this is me.

And I'm going to do some more research.

I'm going to find a study, I'm going to speak to a doctor in another country.

I'm going to piece this together and hopefully get some support from doctors who are now beginning to understand.

And I hope that doctors are beginning to know that if they don't understand that they go to another doctor, another specialist there needs to Be better interplay between all the different specialties so women and men as well can get a better understanding and they can get better support moving forwards, whether that is medication, whether it's lifestyle help, whether it's just like you say, this validation of saying, okay, I get you, I understand you're not, you're not imagining this and I hope that's where you know, we're moving towards now.

You just brought up so much there for me, right.

What you were saying there about professionals.

I'm still hearing this, Kate, and I think it is the most vulnerable and respectful thing that you can do when someone is sat in front of you is, I don't know, but I'll go and find out instead of telling someone that can't be true because I don't know of it yet.

Right, I completely agree with you.

And, and I, when I talk about validation and self empowerment for the individual who has a chronic illness, I'm also like, you probably know this yourself, right, because you're a coach.

We meet parents who think the teacher is supposed to know everything and that if the teacher doesn't see adhd, then the child hasn't, doesn't have adhd.

We have people who are attending therapists and they're like, oh, my therapist doesn't think I have adhd, so therefore I don't.

Right.

So there's an awful lot of expectation about other people to have all the answers and they're just not trained.

Right.

And I'm not saying it's okay, it's not okay.

But I think that if people can have that impairment and esteem in themselves to go, well, I think this, or I'm seeing this, that this is happening for me.

And if they do meet somebody, like, so for me, if I had left the first doctor I had gone to see when I told them I'm not getting better, something isn't right.

And I hadn't gone to see someone else and I hadn't advocated for myself.

I, I had no idea where I'd be today.

So I want people to feel like they have the right to get second opinions.

I know how exhausting that is and how costly that can be.

Right.

But just because you're sat in front of a professional with a qualification in a certain area doesn't mean that you don't know your reality and what's going on for you.

And I think I want people to know that they can seek a second opinion or like you said, work with someone abroad or like what I did, right?

I went to the US and the UK to see what was happening there.

And something else that's coming up for me as well.

You said it earlier and something you said just there tweaked it again for me is sleep case, right?

So like when before diagnosis of adhd, for me, my sleep was, oh, I'd be awake till 4am and then up at 7am to go to work, go to school, you know, it.

And it had such a toll on me.

And then when you throw in a chronic illness, right, it is very difficult for people to be able to switch off, right.

So if you're trying to function and be productive and survive, you know, environments that are overstimulating and maybe you're masking in them and then you're also trying to symptom, manage, it's very difficult for people to get into that safety, that rest and digest to allow their body to go to sleep.

And so I did a huge amount of work on sleep post diagnosis and then I had to go and do a huge amount of work post illness because my body felt like this, you know, after being processing and trying to respond to different symptoms all day long.

And oftentimes I would get into bed at night, I'd have restless leg syndrome, I'd have like, sometimes the symptoms seem to be 10 times worse at nighttime.

So therefore you can sleep, you know.

And I think that if people were to ask me, you know, what were your two things I would say pacing and sleep.

Because sleep gives your body this chance to recover and it gives you the mental capacity to be able to endure whatever is happening the next day, you know.

Yeah, absolutely.

We can never underestimate the impact that sleep can have.

And so if we can, I would always say probably prioritize your sleep hygiene, always find ways, just find ways that work for you.

And again, it's for everyone else is different.

So, yeah, thank you, thank you for bringing that up.

Claire, it's been really fascinating talking with you and I know that just this conversation alone will just help a lot of people feel heard and feel, you know, like their story that matters, their experience matters and that they're not alone.

Where can people find you if they want to maybe work with you as a coach, but maybe if there's any kind of place that you can direct them to if they want to be part of your Facebook group or anything like that.

So in terms of coaching and my ADHD work, my website is adhdconnections, ie and my Instagram handle is DHD Connections.

And then in terms of long COVID support you can go to Facebook and it's called Long Covid Ireland.

Simple as that.

Great.

Okay, well, I'll make sure it's all in the show notes as usual, but thank you, thank you for this conversation.

You know, five years later, we can't underestimate the fallout that Covid and Long Covid has had on a generation from so many different aspects, mental health, physical health and you know, now, neurodivergence.

And I think we're going to learn so much more moving forwards.

We'll probably look at back at this conversation in 5 years time and think, oh my God, we're only scratching the surface.

But I guess that is, that is what is happening and we can't jump ahead and maybe our nervous systems might not be able to cope with, you know, too much information all at once.

So like you say, we need to pace ourselves and give ourselves lots of self compassion for everything that we've gone through and also like give ourselves a pat on the back for the resilience that you're, you know, the fact that you're here doing what you're doing, supporting others and so many people who are getting up every single day and looking after families and working and doing what they can to, you know, contribute to this world.

So, yeah, I always say lots of self compassion and recognition for everything that we are doing, not just noticing all the things that we can't do and struggle with.

So, Claire, thank you so much for this conversation and hope to speak to you very soon.

Thank you so much, Kate, for having me and for also making this a piece of your podcast.

I know that it's an important topic and it's nice to know that it's not being forgotten about because as you say, it's five years down the line.

You know, it's a big anniversary.

So yeah, I really appreciate it.

No problem.

Thank you.

Claire.

If today's episode has been helpful for you and you're looking for even further support, my brand new book, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit, is now available to order from anywhere you get your books from.

I, I really hope this book is going to be the ultimate resource for anyone who loves this podcast and wants a deeper dive into all these kinds of conversations.

If you head to my website, adhdwomenswellbeing.co.uk, you'll find all the information on the book there, which is going to be out on the 17th of July.

Thank you so much.