1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,520 Before we get into today's episode, I wanted to let you know upfront that this 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:07,280 episode has been made in partnership with mailchimp, which means it's a 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,080 sponsored episode and I've been paid to produce this conversation. I want to be 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,880 transparent about that because the whole point of this podcast is to give you genuinely 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,720 useful information you can actually act on. I only partner with brands 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,160 where I believe there's something really valuable for independent retailers and small 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,920 businesses. And as you'll hear today, that's absolutely the case here. 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,240 All of the views and reflections you hear from me are my own. Right, let's 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,520 get into it. It's a really great in depth conversation. 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,160 If you run a retail business or an e commerce brand, chances are you 11 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:41,520 already have some form of email marketing set up. You're sending 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,200 newsletters, maybe the old promotional email, and it's doing something, 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,440 but probably not as much as it could be. Welcome 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,160 to the Resilient Retail Game Plan. I'm Catherine Edley and in the next few 15 00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:56,480 minutes you're about to get powerful real world retail strategies 16 00:00:56,910 --> 00:01:00,710 from insights shared both from my guests and myself, backed up by 17 00:01:00,710 --> 00:01:04,550 my 25 years in the retail industry. Keep listening to learn how 18 00:01:04,550 --> 00:01:08,390 to grow a thriving, profitable product business. Let's jump in 19 00:01:08,390 --> 00:01:12,230 with this latest episode. Here's what I see again and 20 00:01:12,230 --> 00:01:15,830 again when I talk to independent retailers. They're sitting on a gold mine of 21 00:01:15,830 --> 00:01:19,510 customer data and not using it. They're sending the same message to everyone 22 00:01:19,510 --> 00:01:23,240 on their list, regardless of what those people have bought, when they last 23 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,920 bought, or what they're actually interested in. And as a result, they're working 24 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,760 harder than they need to, spending more than they should on customer acquisition and leaving 25 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,520 a huge amount of repeat revenue on the table. Today I'm 26 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,200 sitting down with Ali Wood from mailchimp to get practical about how small 27 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,720 retail businesses can get more from their email and SMS marketing 28 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:45,680 using the data that they already have. There are some genuinely eye 29 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,440 opening numbers in this conversation and some really interesting ways of looking at things that 30 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,220 you might not have thought of before. Thank you so much 31 00:01:53,220 --> 00:01:57,020 for joining me, Ali. I can't wait to jump in and I'd love 32 00:01:57,020 --> 00:02:00,860 to jump straight into the weeds. If you look at small business 33 00:02:00,860 --> 00:02:04,660 retailers or e commerce brands right now, what do you think some of 34 00:02:04,660 --> 00:02:08,100 the biggest challenges are that they're facing when it comes to marketing and actually 35 00:02:08,180 --> 00:02:12,020 driving profitable growth? Yeah, I think it's a great 36 00:02:12,020 --> 00:02:15,860 question to jump into. I think for a lot of the customers 37 00:02:15,860 --> 00:02:19,140 that we speak to and the brands that we see, it's about measuring and 38 00:02:19,140 --> 00:02:22,980 optimizing customer acquisition. I think there's so many different 39 00:02:23,620 --> 00:02:27,220 channels at the moment and different places that you can 40 00:02:27,780 --> 00:02:31,500 keep your data, track your data and if it's not, it's just 41 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:34,820 fragmented. Right. So if you haven't got everything talking to each other, 42 00:02:35,220 --> 00:02:38,900 it's really difficult to then kind of figure out like 43 00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:42,340 where your ROI is and where you should be investing your money. 44 00:02:43,060 --> 00:02:46,740 Interestingly, one of the things that we've seen is that, you know, 45 00:02:46,740 --> 00:02:50,100 brands really want to invest in being able to grow their 46 00:02:50,100 --> 00:02:53,410 lists and they know that they need to now start capturing more 47 00:02:53,810 --> 00:02:57,570 information. So like phone numbers for example, for like messaging. 48 00:02:58,050 --> 00:03:01,650 But actually customers are getting a lot more protective over where they, 49 00:03:02,290 --> 00:03:04,690 you know, where they want to put their data and who they want to give 50 00:03:04,690 --> 00:03:08,490 it to. So it's kind of a bit like, you know, it's 51 00:03:08,490 --> 00:03:11,370 competing. Right. So how do you kind of like cut through the noise and get 52 00:03:11,370 --> 00:03:15,170 your message heard? I guess it's one of those things, isn't it, when cost 53 00:03:15,170 --> 00:03:18,430 of acquisition is low and it's easy to get 54 00:03:18,430 --> 00:03:22,230 customers and in a way, not that you can be more, you don't have 55 00:03:22,230 --> 00:03:25,510 to be as focused, but the more expensive it gets, the more you have to 56 00:03:25,510 --> 00:03:29,230 get it right, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So if you think about 57 00:03:29,230 --> 00:03:32,669 it, you're like, you're investing in channels, you've got channels to invest in, which is 58 00:03:32,669 --> 00:03:36,350 great, but then how do you know what channel is driving what? And I think 59 00:03:36,350 --> 00:03:39,510 if like really good example would be like, you know, if you're doing some sort 60 00:03:39,510 --> 00:03:43,270 of like targeting and you get someone that you have a niche product and you 61 00:03:43,270 --> 00:03:46,710 know they're really interested in that product, you send them some great email content, 62 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,080 I don't know, say like skiwear and then they go to your website, they look 63 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,200 at the ski wear, but then you get a pop up that says 10% off 64 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,400 and then they click on that. Then how do you now know that they are 65 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,920 interested in the skiwear but they've clicked on your 10% 66 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,840 pop up? So you know, there's lots of kind of like conflicting 67 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,680 ways in which the data, if you've not got it under some sort 68 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,440 of like unified platform and if you're not tagging it correctly, you don't have 69 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,040 the right understanding of the customer. What Ali's 70 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,890 describing there is something I see constantly with retailers I work with. 71 00:04:20,050 --> 00:04:23,770 Data coming in from multiple places, none of it talking to each other. And 72 00:04:23,770 --> 00:04:27,570 founders making big decisions about their marketing spend almost completely 73 00:04:27,570 --> 00:04:31,290 blind. That fragmentation problem was exactly what drove 74 00:04:31,290 --> 00:04:35,130 mailchimp to rethink their platform and what they built in response is really 75 00:04:35,130 --> 00:04:38,770 interesting because it wasn't just about giving teams more data 76 00:04:38,850 --> 00:04:42,690 to look at. I think for us, a lot of it 77 00:04:42,690 --> 00:04:46,450 is around, you know, progressing from being a very sort of like basic email 78 00:04:46,450 --> 00:04:49,910 tool to something that is like much more automated 79 00:04:50,390 --> 00:04:53,190 and something that's going to give you the data insights that you need. Because what 80 00:04:53,190 --> 00:04:56,950 we kept hearing time and time again is, I'm really frustrated. I have a 81 00:04:56,950 --> 00:05:00,670 small team, I they're stretched thin. I 82 00:05:00,670 --> 00:05:04,150 don't really have necessarily the bandwidth to manage 83 00:05:04,550 --> 00:05:07,990 all of the processes that I need to manage. And 84 00:05:08,230 --> 00:05:11,430 then when you put data into that as well, there's a huge amount of data. 85 00:05:11,430 --> 00:05:14,470 So I'm collecting this data, but how do I put it together? 86 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:17,880 And I need a tool that's going to be able to kind of give me 87 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,640 some real, real insights, but then also make it really easy for me to 88 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,360 use that with a very lean team. So one of the things 89 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,200 as well was though, you've got your data coming in, you've 90 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,040 got the actual process of email marketing and messaging that you need 91 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,760 to do, but then you've also got the ROI piece hanging over the top of 92 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,440 it. So, you know, if I've got a small team, am I making 93 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,960 the right investments? How do I know that this investment has 94 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,720 driven success for me? And I think one of the 95 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,560 things that's really easy to get hung up on is what did this specific 96 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,200 email drive for me or what did this specific 97 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,360 social media campaign drive? Whereas it's kind of now, 98 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,320 because you've got all of these different avenues, you need to look at it as 99 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,080 a more like, kind of like holistic approach and say, what did that strategy 100 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,880 do for me? How many new users did that strategy drive me? Or 101 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,520 how much engagement did I get from existing customers through 102 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,800 that strategy? Because everything's so kind of linked 103 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,800 and it's really hard to build a picture of that if you haven't 104 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,240 actually got a platform that's got all of that data linked to it. 105 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,680 So we expanded our e commerce capabilities, so we've got 106 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,320 about 26% more triggers. And so that basically 107 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,080 that means then that what businesses can do is automate more 108 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,890 intelligently using the data that they have. And one 109 00:06:39,890 --> 00:06:43,530 of the things that I like around that is kind of looking at two things. 110 00:06:43,530 --> 00:06:46,850 You're looking at customer lifetime value, which is hugely important, 111 00:06:47,490 --> 00:06:51,130 but then you're also looking at what's the propensity of this subset of 112 00:06:51,130 --> 00:06:54,610 customers that could be spending more with me are more likely 113 00:06:54,690 --> 00:06:58,370 to buy a specific time. And so 114 00:06:58,610 --> 00:07:02,210 the platform and the AI is giving you that data and then you're 115 00:07:02,530 --> 00:07:06,250 kind of, it's automating that process so you can kind of focus more on 116 00:07:06,250 --> 00:07:09,920 the creativity around it and message that you want to send to people. 117 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,080 So, yeah, super exciting. But ultimately what we're trying to 118 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,440 do is just get teams to run faster, get the AI to 119 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,240 review the data that you've got and say, yes, 120 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,000 no, this is where it could be tweaked, maybe do some A B testing 121 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,800 as well. And I think when you're looking at things like, you know, driving in 122 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,600 like loyalty examples into your email marketing strategy, they 123 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,760 kind of go hand in hand really. You know, you've got your loyalty data, you've 124 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,390 got your email data, you've got data coming from your E commerce 125 00:07:39,390 --> 00:07:43,230 platform as well. So ultimately what we want to do is 126 00:07:43,230 --> 00:07:47,070 increase the roi. This last point is 127 00:07:47,070 --> 00:07:50,670 really important and I want to make sure it sinks in. The goal of 128 00:07:50,670 --> 00:07:54,390 better data isn't more reports to read on a Friday afternoon. It's 129 00:07:54,390 --> 00:07:58,230 faster, smarter decisions with less manual effort. 130 00:07:58,470 --> 00:08:02,070 The businesses I see growing right now aren't the ones necessarily with the 131 00:08:02,070 --> 00:08:05,580 biggest teams. They're the ones who found ways to make every 132 00:08:05,580 --> 00:08:09,420 pound of marketing spend work harder. What Ali is describing, 133 00:08:09,580 --> 00:08:13,260 using AI to identify which customers are most likely to buy 134 00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:17,100 again and automating the right message to them at the right time 135 00:08:17,420 --> 00:08:20,780 is exactly how you do that without needing to hire a marketing department. 136 00:08:22,060 --> 00:08:25,180 I'm really surprised at how many customers 137 00:08:25,660 --> 00:08:28,780 still just send the same email to the same person, 138 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,000 to a group of people, rather. Yeah, so, and I think that, 139 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,800 you know, it's kind of really taking it back to what's the basics that I 140 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,440 can do in order to understand my customer base and then 141 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,080 what's the message that they need in the journey that they are in 142 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,320 at the moment. If I'm a customer that bought from you last year and I've 143 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,520 not bought anything in the last 12 months, then you need to win me back. 144 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,320 Something's happened. You can send me a very different message to someone that 145 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,370 bought from you last week. Right. So. So you know, the 146 00:08:57,690 --> 00:09:01,130 customers that bought last week, you want to really engage with them. You want to 147 00:09:01,130 --> 00:09:04,930 get positive sentiment coming from that purchase. So you might want to get 148 00:09:04,930 --> 00:09:07,970 them to make a review of the purchase that they've done, which is why you 149 00:09:07,970 --> 00:09:11,690 need the review data. LinkedIn, you know, if someone's done a review and maybe it's 150 00:09:11,690 --> 00:09:14,530 not as positive as you thought it was going to be, okay. I need that 151 00:09:14,530 --> 00:09:18,370 data and then I can use the tools to automate responses and get them 152 00:09:18,370 --> 00:09:22,050 into the right segments. You know, positive reviewers, negative 153 00:09:22,050 --> 00:09:25,630 reviewers, what's the story that I want to do? And like this is where like 154 00:09:25,630 --> 00:09:29,430 AI becomes really fascinating because you can just set up those kind 155 00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:33,270 of sequences but you can think about what do you need to do in 156 00:09:33,270 --> 00:09:36,630 order for you to engage all of the different types of customers that you've got 157 00:09:36,630 --> 00:09:40,310 in your database. One of the examples I've used a few times, but 158 00:09:40,310 --> 00:09:43,950 I'll say it to you, it's like, especially when you're looking at kind of like 159 00:09:44,110 --> 00:09:47,430 bringing in sms and I know we'll get onto that in a minute, but do 160 00:09:47,430 --> 00:09:51,270 you 100% know who your customer is shopping for? I had, my friend 161 00:09:51,270 --> 00:09:54,580 was shopping for her son for Christmas and then 162 00:09:55,220 --> 00:09:59,060 she gave her phone number. So she was involved into SMS. But 163 00:09:59,460 --> 00:10:03,020 the content of the SMS, the tone of it was geared 164 00:10:03,020 --> 00:10:05,620 towards a 14 year old boy. 165 00:10:06,660 --> 00:10:10,380 Yeah, you know, so it's like, yeah, you're trying to integrate it 166 00:10:10,380 --> 00:10:14,140 but she kind of got that message and it didn't land well, you 167 00:10:14,140 --> 00:10:17,820 know, the tone wasn't right. And so, you know, again that's 168 00:10:17,820 --> 00:10:21,340 like, it's a really interesting way that you can say, right, you know, use pop 169 00:10:21,340 --> 00:10:24,180 ups and things like that. So you know, who are you shopping for? Are you, 170 00:10:24,180 --> 00:10:27,960 is this a gift? Subtle things in order for you to be 171 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,560 able to start building up better pictures of people like without making kind of 172 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:35,200 assumptions, I think is really important. It's easier said than done, 173 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,840 but with a lot of these tools now that have, you know, things 174 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,400 integrated, you can then start making tags and putting those on them and then 175 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,560 giving them the right story. The 176 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:48,720 segmentation point that Ali just made is one of the most important 177 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,180 shifts any retailer can make in how they think about email. 178 00:10:52,660 --> 00:10:56,180 Stop treating your list as one group. Start thinking about each 179 00:10:56,260 --> 00:10:59,540 person and where they actually are in their relationship with you. 180 00:10:59,940 --> 00:11:03,540 Someone who bought from you last week needs a completely different conversation 181 00:11:03,780 --> 00:11:07,220 to someone who hasn't opened an email in 6 months. Once you start 182 00:11:07,220 --> 00:11:10,580 designing for those different journeys, your email stops feeling like 183 00:11:10,580 --> 00:11:14,380 broadcasting and starts feeling like a relationship. And that changes 184 00:11:14,380 --> 00:11:18,190 everything about how it performs. And don't forget, even two or three years 185 00:11:18,190 --> 00:11:21,950 ago, this would have been incredibly difficult for you to do. But now 186 00:11:21,950 --> 00:11:25,710 with automation and AI built into email marketing platforms, there's 187 00:11:25,710 --> 00:11:28,590 a real opportunity for small businesses to do more. 188 00:11:29,550 --> 00:11:32,990 Imagine how more effective that message could have been 189 00:11:33,230 --> 00:11:37,070 if they'd have collected more data. You know, are you shopping for someone's birthday, you 190 00:11:37,070 --> 00:11:40,750 know, is it their birthday? Looking around, you know, oh, okay, I can 191 00:11:40,910 --> 00:11:44,670 start looking at the fact that they bought something in May. Maybe their birthday's in 192 00:11:44,670 --> 00:11:48,030 May. Oh, you know, if you've got any birthdays coming up, here's some 193 00:11:48,410 --> 00:11:52,130 offers. It's just being able to kind of think about that next level down in 194 00:11:52,130 --> 00:11:55,490 the data that you're trying to gather. And there's some really creative ways you can 195 00:11:55,490 --> 00:11:58,970 do it now through quizzes and pop ups and you know, and you can do 196 00:11:58,970 --> 00:12:02,610 that through the journey. You know, you've got email that's there 197 00:12:02,610 --> 00:12:06,250 to build your story and tell people about your 198 00:12:06,250 --> 00:12:09,970 brand and keep them connected. You know, longer messages and 199 00:12:09,970 --> 00:12:13,610 then you've got messaging cuts through the noise. 200 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,200 You've got your transactional, you can link it in now to sort of, you know, 201 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,800 like the operational side of things. So your 202 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,600 orders on its way. Thanks for booking your transactional sort of stuff. 203 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,840 But then also kind of cutting through the noise. We've got, you know, we've got 204 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,080 a new drop coming, check your email in a week's time. 205 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,040 There's different mediums kind of coming through. But I think it's 206 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,880 ultimately like if you've spent the money trying to gain a customer and you've 207 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,400 acquired a customer and they've bought from you and they, they like what they've 208 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,040 bought and need to turn that data into sales. So this is really 209 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,560 around where you do have to spend some time on looking at your data and 210 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:52,760 the insights that you gather there and helping that to inform 211 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,160 what you want to do in your email marketing strategy. In simple 212 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,840 terms, it's kind of like having all of your data in one place, isn't it? 213 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,440 So it's about say so not having to go to each of your like separate 214 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,040 tools. So the more that you can kind of pull data from individual 215 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,720 tools into one place so you can start to build up that picture of someone 216 00:13:12,420 --> 00:13:15,700 then you can start making better informed 217 00:13:16,420 --> 00:13:20,220 decisions and get yourself kind of better insights. I think for 218 00:13:20,220 --> 00:13:23,540 E commerce obviously you know, there's a lot of data in your E comm platform 219 00:13:23,780 --> 00:13:27,540 so how can you pull that into your email marketing 220 00:13:27,540 --> 00:13:31,260 tools and start to build up a picture of 221 00:13:31,260 --> 00:13:34,940 who you've got in your database and also like it's 222 00:13:34,940 --> 00:13:37,780 around how can you start to spot 223 00:13:38,590 --> 00:13:42,230 your, for example like your highest value customers really kind of like 224 00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:46,030 basic segmentation. So I've got all of these customers, okay, but what have 225 00:13:46,030 --> 00:13:49,470 they done? I've got high value buyers, I've got 226 00:13:49,710 --> 00:13:53,510 regular buyers that they buy lots of little things So I know 227 00:13:53,510 --> 00:13:57,230 I could increase their average order value. How do I do that? 228 00:13:57,550 --> 00:14:01,390 Then I've got customers that you know, haven't bought from me 229 00:14:01,390 --> 00:14:04,830 like we mentioned earlier. So then what's kind of like my re engagement 230 00:14:04,830 --> 00:14:08,660 strategy versus what's my engagement strategy? And 231 00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:12,220 then I think the unified piece kind of then also really 232 00:14:12,220 --> 00:14:15,740 brings in like email and SMS and messaging. And 233 00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:19,340 I think before they've been pretty siloed in the sense 234 00:14:19,340 --> 00:14:22,900 that maybe SMS is used to say thanks for your order, your order's on your 235 00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:26,700 way, like your transactional stuff. But now actually if you bring it 236 00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:30,460 into your strategy, like I mentioned earlier, like if you really want 237 00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:34,420 a group of customers to read a specific email that you've created 238 00:14:34,420 --> 00:14:37,820 because it's really important and you really want to tell them something 239 00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:41,980 about your brand, they're going to get, I don't know, 240 00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:45,420 there's like quadruple the amount of emails that you get versus text 241 00:14:45,420 --> 00:14:49,140 messages. Right. So, right. If you can bring SMS 242 00:14:49,140 --> 00:14:52,660 into your strategy to let them know that that email's coming so that they look 243 00:14:52,660 --> 00:14:55,980 out for it. Because what we do know is that 244 00:14:56,140 --> 00:14:59,900 SMS is obviously going to get onto into someone's brain 245 00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:03,710 much quicker than an email in a list. But using the two together, 246 00:15:03,710 --> 00:15:06,910 you can start building out that strategy, 247 00:15:11,390 --> 00:15:15,110 Running an e commerce business, then you know the struggle. Not enough time, too 248 00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:18,709 many tools and no clear picture of what's actually driving sales for 249 00:15:18,709 --> 00:15:22,430 retailers today. Customer acquisition and growth are becoming harder to properly measure 250 00:15:22,430 --> 00:15:26,070 and optimize. That's why I'm interested in what Intuit mailchimp has just 251 00:15:26,070 --> 00:15:29,500 launched. Built to deliver ROI for e commerce brands, their new 252 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:33,060 advanced data driven capabilities combine unified data with 253 00:15:33,060 --> 00:15:36,900 powerful automation across email and messaging. Now you can pull your 254 00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:40,540 Shopify data site activity and even customer reviews from platforms like 255 00:15:40,540 --> 00:15:44,100 Yotpo and judge me into one place so you can target high value 256 00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:47,500 buyers, re engage at risk customers and automate smarter. 257 00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:51,580 Want to connect the dots between campaigns and revenue? Expanded SMS across 258 00:15:51,580 --> 00:15:55,420 Europe, instant opt ins and unique discount codes help you reach customers globally 259 00:15:55,420 --> 00:15:58,960 and track exactly which messages drive orders. Plus a new 260 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,600 Omnichannel dashboard shows what's working across email, SMS and 261 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,360 automations so you can optimize with confidence. And with AI built in, you 262 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,080 can turn insights into ready to launch campaigns in minutes. Retailers using 263 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,600 Mailchimp are seeing up to 30 times return on investment. And some Shopify 264 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,120 connected stores are generating around £32 for every pound one spent. 265 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,560 Less guesswork, more growth. Visit 266 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,330 www.resilientretailclub.com mailchimp to 267 00:16:23,330 --> 00:16:27,010 learn more. Kind of going back to the idea of the unified 268 00:16:27,010 --> 00:16:30,810 data. So one of the pain points that I see is, is you've touched 269 00:16:30,810 --> 00:16:34,170 on it already. It's this idea of, right, I'm doing all of these things. I'm 270 00:16:34,170 --> 00:16:37,690 sending emails, I'm sending sms, I am also 271 00:16:38,570 --> 00:16:42,330 on socials, Maybe I'm doing organic social, maybe I'm doing ugc, 272 00:16:42,330 --> 00:16:45,570 maybe I'm doing paid ads, Working with content 273 00:16:45,570 --> 00:16:49,170 creators. Yeah, you know, maybe I've got bricks and mortar stores. So there's kind of 274 00:16:49,170 --> 00:16:52,970 like a huge number of different things that they're doing. So I 275 00:16:52,970 --> 00:16:56,810 guess it's then kind of working out. How do they actually work out which 276 00:16:56,810 --> 00:17:00,250 bits were working? Yeah, 277 00:17:00,250 --> 00:17:03,850 exactly. And also where it's not. So where are people dropping off? 278 00:17:03,930 --> 00:17:07,449 If you have separate providers for this stuff, then 279 00:17:07,449 --> 00:17:11,050 you're looking at separate reports, whereas if you bring it all into one 280 00:17:11,050 --> 00:17:14,770 provider, then you can start seeing what the actual plan was. So 281 00:17:14,770 --> 00:17:18,289 it's kind of going back to my original point, which was it's not 282 00:17:18,289 --> 00:17:22,009 necessarily like, how successful was that one SMS or that 283 00:17:22,009 --> 00:17:25,609 one email, but how did it work together as a 284 00:17:25,609 --> 00:17:29,009 strategy to drive views on pages, 285 00:17:29,809 --> 00:17:32,929 click throughs and ultimately purchases. 286 00:17:33,809 --> 00:17:37,489 So I think it is really about trying to have 287 00:17:37,489 --> 00:17:41,329 that overall vision of what you want the customer to go through 288 00:17:41,969 --> 00:17:45,809 and then being able to use the AI that you have within the tools to 289 00:17:45,809 --> 00:17:49,450 stop pulling out the insights so that you can see a 290 00:17:49,450 --> 00:17:53,130 spike when that sms, you know, or we planned that SMS 291 00:17:53,290 --> 00:17:57,130 and then actually we wanted an open rate of 40% on that email and we've 292 00:17:57,130 --> 00:18:00,930 got an open rate of 42 or AB testing where it's 293 00:18:00,930 --> 00:18:04,370 like, okay, well the next one, let's not send the SMS and just send the 294 00:18:04,370 --> 00:18:08,210 email and see what our open rate is. So starting to 295 00:18:08,210 --> 00:18:11,890 use the insights from the tools themselves to then make decisions 296 00:18:11,890 --> 00:18:15,680 on whether it's worked. You have to kind of like pinpoint, I think though, 297 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,440 what does success look like? Because otherwise you're going to get into this, like too 298 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,240 much data. I don't know where to start. You know, 299 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,160 it's kind of very much sort of like take these things segment 300 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,200 by segment and kind of like drive what you're looking for. 301 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,440 What Ali's talking about here is a tactical shift 302 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,240 that unlocks everything else. Pick one goal, build 303 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,000 a strategy around it and measure the whole thing, not just the individual 304 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,780 emails. But so that might look like my goal this month is to 305 00:18:45,780 --> 00:18:49,620 convert new subscribers into buyers within 30 days. I build 306 00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:53,180 a welcome sequence, set my triggers, and then I measure whether that 307 00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:56,900 strategy achieved its goal, not whether any single email got a 308 00:18:56,900 --> 00:19:00,420 decent open rate. That's a completely different way of thinking about email 309 00:19:00,420 --> 00:19:04,180 marketing than what most small retailers are currently doing. And it's 310 00:19:04,180 --> 00:19:06,700 the shift that makes all of the data actually useful. 311 00:19:08,220 --> 00:19:12,060 Also, you can look at things like some people prefer emails, some people prefer 312 00:19:12,060 --> 00:19:15,690 messages, so which ones for which particular segment is working 313 00:19:15,690 --> 00:19:19,410 for you? And last year we did some research which 314 00:19:19,410 --> 00:19:22,970 was like a holiday guide and I thought that was super interesting 315 00:19:22,970 --> 00:19:26,370 because one of the things you need to be thinking about now is everything that 316 00:19:26,370 --> 00:19:30,130 you're doing now. And I hate to mention Christmas, but hey, hey, never 317 00:19:30,130 --> 00:19:32,330 too early to talk about. It's never too early to talk about it. 318 00:19:34,170 --> 00:19:37,770 If you're not engaging with your customers through your email marketing 319 00:19:37,770 --> 00:19:41,430 strategy now, then what's to say that they're going to open your 320 00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:44,910 email when you need them to, when you are really in the thick of it, 321 00:19:44,910 --> 00:19:48,390 trying to drive that traffic that you need at Christmas, for 322 00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:52,110 example. So there has to be some thought process around 323 00:19:52,110 --> 00:19:55,870 that. And then starting to see the engagement rates 324 00:19:56,030 --> 00:19:59,710 and then if you're starting to get engagement rates through certain types 325 00:19:59,710 --> 00:20:03,430 of emails and then starting to test SMS within that 326 00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:06,590 as well. So as you lead up, you know, I don't know, we've got a 327 00:20:06,590 --> 00:20:10,340 bank holiday offer, there's Easter offers or, you know, whatever that 328 00:20:10,340 --> 00:20:13,900 could be, then you can start logging in. I like, one of the things I 329 00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:17,580 that we like is that, you know, people that like discounts are there. 330 00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:21,340 People that only ever open up your emails if they're mentioned, if they're mentioning 331 00:20:21,340 --> 00:20:24,700 discounts or your SMS, like, you know, oh, here's 332 00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:28,540 5% off. Oh, I've clicked on that SMS. Okay, so you 333 00:20:28,540 --> 00:20:32,260 know that they're driven by price. What have they then done on 334 00:20:32,260 --> 00:20:35,990 your website that you can then pull that data from your Ecom platform 335 00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:39,830 and then start putting that into your email marketing? Because it might be, oh, 336 00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:44,030 I know that they're interested in, in a discount, but actually have not shown them 337 00:20:44,030 --> 00:20:47,550 the right, the right product that they're interested in, for 338 00:20:47,550 --> 00:20:51,030 example. So it's all these kind of like minutias. And 339 00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:54,950 let's not forget that, you know, with the cost of 340 00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:58,630 obtaining emails and the cost of 341 00:20:59,420 --> 00:21:02,380 every other type of marketing to drive new 342 00:21:02,860 --> 00:21:06,460 contacts into your base, once you've got them there, you can send as many 343 00:21:06,460 --> 00:21:10,300 emails as you want. Like this is, you're free to rain. 344 00:21:10,540 --> 00:21:14,100 So, you know, go through that data and test things 345 00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:17,500 out and build out those relationships. 346 00:21:17,740 --> 00:21:20,380 We've touched on SMS a few times, but I'D love to dig into it in 347 00:21:20,380 --> 00:21:24,220 a little bit more detail because it has really evolved over the last few years. 348 00:21:24,550 --> 00:21:28,310 Yeah. So how do you see it fitting alongside email? 349 00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:32,110 Like what's the kind of best practice or what's working for e commerce brands right 350 00:21:32,110 --> 00:21:35,750 now in terms of the combination? Yeah, I think it's, it's so it's definitely 351 00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:39,350 around it not being just a standalone solution. 352 00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:43,150 It's definitely something that needs to be worked into your overall marketing 353 00:21:43,150 --> 00:21:46,950 strategy. And one of the things that we're seeing a lot of now is 354 00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:50,790 around kind of like instant SMS opt ins. 355 00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:54,160 So, so I think what we've been seeing is people have been 356 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,120 collecting emails and collecting phone numbers, but 357 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,960 not necessarily collecting the same thing from one person. And so 358 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,400 we've kind of now got email list and SMS lists. So we kind of need 359 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,240 to bring all of that together into unified data. 360 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,520 So being able to kind of like use pop ups to start getting phone 361 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,080 numbers and then linking that back to your, you know, your contacts. 362 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,560 One of the things I like is it's becoming a lot more 363 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,360 operationalized so you can link it through, through data, you can 364 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,680 link it to the customer journey. Thank you for your order. 365 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,800 Or we noticed I, I had a really great one recently where a brand 366 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,960 had said, I know you've looked at this product a lot 367 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,000 and sure you don't want to buy it, you know, sent me the link 368 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,240 and you know, picture of whatever I was looking at 369 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,960 at the time. Um, but what it means is that 370 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,320 now because before it was very sort of, you know, operational of the 371 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,080 transactional side of things, but now actually it's in the marketing team's hands and 372 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,880 they can get the right tone and keep the same tone as 373 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,560 the email marketing strategy. Because I don't think there's anything worse than 374 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,240 sort of like the text message just looking like it's from someone you've never 375 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,040 known, whereas the email's really curated. So that's really 376 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,400 nice that it can start to kind of become 377 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,160 one and feel like the same. If someone 378 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,760 gives a brand or a company their phone number, 379 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,520 they are that is there and explicitly saying to you I want to hear 380 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,360 from you. That's a concept that it's worth really 381 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,320 pausing and thinking about for a minute. When someone hands over their phone 382 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,360 number, they're extending a level of trust that is 383 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:38,180 qualitatively different from giving you their email address. The bar 384 00:23:38,180 --> 00:23:42,020 for how you use it is higher and as you're about to hear, so are 385 00:23:42,020 --> 00:23:45,860 the returns when you get it right. So I think Being sort 386 00:23:45,860 --> 00:23:49,180 of like creative around what you, you know the topic that you can use to 387 00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:52,460 do re engagement and like to put that into perspective. So like what does a 388 00:23:52,460 --> 00:23:56,100 28% click through rate mean? Well for that particular business it was like 389 00:23:56,100 --> 00:23:59,780 8,000 new MRR. So 390 00:24:00,020 --> 00:24:03,740 a huge amount. And I think what we're seeing as well around sort of like 391 00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:07,480 on the performance side with sms they're divi. It's kind of 392 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,720 delivering about sort of like 22 times ROI 393 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:14,880 when you're using SMS with mailchimp 394 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,000 and actually even then when you bring kind of like shopify into that we're seeing 395 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,640 sort of returns around 41 times the actual initial investment. 396 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,880 So huge, huge numbers. So I think if anyone is 397 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,640 thinking about it you should definitely give it a go and 398 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,240 use tools that have got a B testing to start like 399 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,400 plan and help you just you know, start small. 400 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,800 You'll see really good numbers and then you can kind of grow with, 401 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,680 grow with the tools as you get more comfortable using them and, and kind of 402 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,360 think about those use cases, right? Think about those segments who could start with who 403 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:52,720 are the low hanging fruit? Maybe like you say the people who were good customers 404 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,440 you haven't bought for a while or something like that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 405 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,000 You know who are your most loyal, your most engaged? Do you have their phone 406 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,590 numbers? If not, you know, use your email marketing strategy to 407 00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:07,350 drive that engagement and get that data. Think about what you then want 408 00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:11,190 to offer them through for giving you that data. It's kind of like, it's 409 00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:14,670 always like a give to get, you know, you give me your phone number, what 410 00:25:14,670 --> 00:25:17,510 am I going to give you? This is you know, and I always think as 411 00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:20,510 well like even if you're taking it back to the bones of people sitting there 412 00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:23,910 thinking oh I've got a massive database but I've got a really small 413 00:25:23,910 --> 00:25:27,510 engagement rate. Okay, well maybe you need some new, a 414 00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:31,220 new, new people. So what can you give that? So if 415 00:25:31,220 --> 00:25:35,020 you, I think the wine guide's a really good example or you know, if 416 00:25:35,020 --> 00:25:38,700 you are you know, booking hotel rooms, you know, 417 00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:42,460 like explain what, you know, local area guides. I don't 418 00:25:42,460 --> 00:25:46,300 know what think about the value exchange for 419 00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:50,020 someone giving you the personal information and how then you can 420 00:25:50,340 --> 00:25:54,140 make that email be seen within the inbox or the 421 00:25:54,140 --> 00:25:57,820 sms. I mean the SMS is, is pretty much seeing the stats there prove 422 00:25:57,820 --> 00:26:01,300 that. But I think with email, you know, again you can, this is where you 423 00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:04,900 can use AI within email which is going to start doing you know, 424 00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:07,940 helping you improve like a lot of the content 425 00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:11,860 but then the marketing team can start adding on top of that around 426 00:26:11,860 --> 00:26:15,660 tone imagery. I mean, and even like, sort 427 00:26:15,660 --> 00:26:18,980 of like we integrate into Canva. So like all your imagery can just really be 428 00:26:18,980 --> 00:26:22,260 sort of like edited over into emails as well. So 429 00:26:22,750 --> 00:26:24,590 it's kind of a little bit too easy at the moment. 430 00:26:26,590 --> 00:26:30,430 Well then it's gotta be about the quality of the message, right? Exactly, exactly. 431 00:26:30,670 --> 00:26:34,110 What's coming next for small business marketing? Obviously so many 432 00:26:34,110 --> 00:26:36,830 changes at the moment, but how do you think it will change over the next 433 00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:40,670 few years? Where do you think it's going? I mean, you can't not 434 00:26:40,670 --> 00:26:43,630 say AI, can you? In answer to this question. Really? 435 00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:48,030 Yeah. You know, lean teams can use AI 436 00:26:48,110 --> 00:26:51,570 to think about like the, the functional 437 00:26:51,650 --> 00:26:55,490 side of things. But to your point that you just mentioned, it's like how do 438 00:26:55,490 --> 00:26:59,090 you then use your, the human assistance to lay over 439 00:26:59,090 --> 00:27:02,610 that to make sure that you've got the brand tone, 440 00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:06,570 that your strategy that you're considering is, is 441 00:27:06,570 --> 00:27:10,170 relevant and the journey that you want to take your customers on? I think for 442 00:27:10,170 --> 00:27:13,730 me the journey, even as a consumer, if I think about 443 00:27:13,730 --> 00:27:17,490 that, I think that's really valuable and really potent. So 444 00:27:17,820 --> 00:27:21,180 if I engage with the brand and I'm not sure I've never shopped with them 445 00:27:21,180 --> 00:27:24,980 before, but then they build my confidence, you know, this is how easy it is 446 00:27:24,980 --> 00:27:28,820 to return. This is why we, you know, this is why our business is here. 447 00:27:28,820 --> 00:27:31,980 This is, these are our values. And you start getting engaged with that. 448 00:27:32,460 --> 00:27:35,980 You can automate those journeys that I'm going to go through and you can 449 00:27:35,980 --> 00:27:39,460 concentrate, the humans can concentrate on the messaging so that the 450 00:27:39,460 --> 00:27:43,300 messaging is really like interactive for me. So 451 00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:46,890 I think it's a lot around that. And I think again, like we have to 452 00:27:46,890 --> 00:27:50,530 kind of like circle back to how do you unify the data? 453 00:27:50,930 --> 00:27:54,330 The data is only going to grow. So how do you make sure that you've 454 00:27:54,330 --> 00:27:58,130 got right tools to be able to analyze 455 00:27:58,450 --> 00:28:02,130 and also like to be able to, you know, we do say to quite a 456 00:28:02,130 --> 00:28:05,890 few of our customers around cleansing data quite regularly. So I think 457 00:28:05,890 --> 00:28:09,090 actually like, you know, we've gone through, we need to collect all the data, 458 00:28:09,740 --> 00:28:13,260 but actually doing a nice cleanse and then seeing where 459 00:28:13,260 --> 00:28:17,020 you're at and looking at some of the gaps that you want to 460 00:28:17,020 --> 00:28:20,740 fill or potentially outline those ones that have, you know, 461 00:28:20,740 --> 00:28:24,140 you think that you can re engage is much 462 00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:28,020 more successful than just blasting everyone, looking at 463 00:28:28,020 --> 00:28:31,860 who you've got on your lists and making sure that they, that they still exist. 464 00:28:31,860 --> 00:28:35,540 Number one, because yes, a certain number of email addresses just become obsolete each 465 00:28:35,540 --> 00:28:39,260 year because people change and then. And also that they're 466 00:28:39,260 --> 00:28:43,060 still interested and that you're only sending to the people who have the 467 00:28:43,060 --> 00:28:46,100 potential to be engaged. Really? Yeah, I think so, if you look at it. So 468 00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:49,700 it's sort of like bringing your data together and making sure that it's clean 469 00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:53,420 data, automating as much as you can through the 470 00:28:53,420 --> 00:28:57,260 AI tools and then reviewing with your analytics 471 00:28:57,260 --> 00:29:00,980 and, you know, keeping that circle going. And then you've got like your amazing 472 00:29:00,980 --> 00:29:04,780 humans that work within your business to get your tone and 473 00:29:04,780 --> 00:29:08,530 your brand. So here's what I'm taking away from this 474 00:29:08,530 --> 00:29:12,090 conversation. The retailers who are going to win over the next few years aren't the 475 00:29:12,090 --> 00:29:15,570 ones with the biggest budgets or the biggest teams. They're the ones who are the 476 00:29:15,570 --> 00:29:18,810 smartest about the data that they already have. Clean your data, 477 00:29:19,210 --> 00:29:22,690 connect it across your platforms, use it to understand what different 478 00:29:22,690 --> 00:29:26,410 groups of customers need from you, and then automate the right message to the 479 00:29:26,410 --> 00:29:29,930 right person at the right time. If you're not yet using 480 00:29:30,010 --> 00:29:33,570 SMS alongside email, the numbers Ali shared today are worth 481 00:29:33,570 --> 00:29:37,070 taking seriously. 22 times return on investment on 482 00:29:37,070 --> 00:29:40,790 SMS alone and 41 times when you bring your Shopify data into 483 00:29:40,790 --> 00:29:44,470 the mix. Those aren't vanity metrics. Those are the kind of numbers that can 484 00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:47,590 fundamentally change the economics of a small retail business. 485 00:29:48,150 --> 00:29:51,190 If this has got you thinking about your own strategy, come and find me over 486 00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:54,910 on Instagram at Resilient Retail Club and drop me a message. I'd love to hear 487 00:29:54,910 --> 00:29:58,430 what you're going to try first. And if you're feeling overwhelmed and now, like your 488 00:29:58,430 --> 00:30:01,780 to do list is even bigger, don't forget you can start small. You can start 489 00:30:01,780 --> 00:30:05,260 with one small step. You don't have to do everything all at once. 490 00:30:05,740 --> 00:30:09,100 You can also head over to resilientretailclub.com 491 00:30:09,260 --> 00:30:13,100 mailchimp to find out all about the Mailchimp platform. See 492 00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:13,820 you next week.