David Beck [00:00:00]:

Innovation waits for no one. It just doesn't. I mean, space is one of the areas of technology innovation, areas that things change. Second millisecond. Not seconds, but milliseconds.

Voiceover [00:00:13]:

Welcome to Supply Chain Now the number one voice of Supply Chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights, and real supply chain leadership from across the globe, one conversation at a time.

Scott W. Luton [00:00:25]:

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton, Kevin L. Jackson and Richard Donaldson, all with you here on Supply Chain Now, welcome to today's show. Hey, Kevin, how you doing?

Kevin L. Jackson [00:00:38]:

I am doing great. You know, this is the first time we don't have to stop talking about space after the green room. I'm excited about this one, man. This is going to be fun.

Scott W. Luton [00:00:49]:

You're letting all of our secrets out. But you're right, you're right. We always have these space sidebars and we always have to get back the to business and other things. So, Richard, this is going to be a luxury here today, huh?

Richard Donaldson [00:01:01]:

Not just a luxury, but I think it's a nice break from everything that's going on in current planet Earth. This is a chance for us to think about some things that are not the chaos on Earth currently and think about space and all the opportunity out there. So it's a, it's a refreshing break to have this conversation.

Scott W. Luton [00:01:18]:

Yes, yes. You know, I hear that it's silent in space. And so when I shift my brain to enjoying that silence in space, it's a beautiful thing. To Richard's point and to Kevin's point, we got an outstanding show here today, folks, where our discussion will sit at the intersection of two of our favorite topics, Supply chain and space. That's right. We're going to be talking about the exciting, innovative, explosive world of space supply chain because we're in a brave new world in particular when it comes to this space economy. We're going to be joined momentarily by an industry leader that serves in the United States Space Force. We're going to be talking about a wide range of space supply chain topics.

Scott W. Luton [00:01:59]:

We'll dive into space logistics. We'll talk about the Space Force's role in space supply chain. We're going to talk about some of the most intriguing developments when it comes to the space economy. So stay tuned for quite a show. So, Richard and Kevin, are you all ready to introduce our esteemed guests here today?

Kevin L. Jackson [00:02:18]:

Absolutely.

Scott W. Luton [00:02:19]:

All right, let's do it. Let's do it. I want to welcome in a very special guest today. Dr. David Beck is a technology guru. He's a space knot. He is a US Marine veteran. He's a founder in the tech and VC space and he's a rock and roll star in the growing space economy.

Scott W. Luton [00:02:36]:

He currently serves as the branch chief for space access, mobility and logistics. S a M L. You know we love our acronyms with the United United States Space Force now in this role. Their mission is to build space resiliency in space mobility one launch at a time. On an important side note, our Guest earned his PhD in industrial engineering at the University of Buffalo. So he is. That makes him almost as smart as Kevin and Richard. And he blows right past me.

Scott W. Luton [00:03:07]:

But join me in welcoming Dr. David Beck with the US Space Force. David, how you doing today?

David Beck [00:03:13]:

I'm doing awesome. Supa Supra to everybody out there.

Scott W. Luton [00:03:18]:

That's right, man. So great to have you here today. We've all been looking forward to this conversation. Kevin, as always, any friend of yours or Richard's is a friend of the show. And Kevin, we've got a great conversation. Teed up with David, huh?

Kevin L. Jackson [00:03:32]:

Yeah, absolutely. You know, David and I have been working together for a couple of years now and I've learned so much, so much from him. And well, don't ask him about his Tesla, okay?

Scott W. Luton [00:03:48]:

That's off limits. That's right. So Richard, did you hear that? No questions about Tesla's a day. Are you good with that too?

Richard Donaldson [00:03:55]:

No, no, totally fine.

David Beck [00:03:58]:

Because we got caught up in loan payments. That's American way, right? Buy something that is happy later.

Scott W. Luton [00:04:04]:

That is the American way.

David Beck [00:04:06]:

Good ride. That's it.

Scott W. Luton [00:04:08]:

All right, so let's do this. If y'all can't tell. Folks, to our smartest audience in all the global supply chain, this is going to be a really fun but really informative conversation here today. Really cool things going on in the modern space age. So let's do this though. Y'all know I like start with a fun warm up question. And the twist here, we're going to start with David. The twist here is what is one of the earliest moments in your lifetime and your journey that you, you kind of fell in love with.

Scott W. Luton [00:04:36]:

All things space related.

David Beck [00:04:39]:

Six years old, sitting in my grandmother's living room in Carrollton, Mississippi. Normally I sit there, she sleep on the couch because she takes naps in the afternoon. And I'm watching a 1720 inch TV sitting in the living room as I sit on the couch near the carpet. Star Trek, Star Trek with Gene Roddenberry original series is on. I think it was season two. And at the point that William Shatner took over from pike, and I started watching it, you know, the credits for the show. And I started watching episode after episode, like a marathon, and I fell in love with it. And I think after that, Star wars, all the different shows, that really kind of, you know, elevated my understanding and love with science and technology.

David Beck [00:05:26]:

And then I watched a little bit of, you know, space shuttle taking off one day at home. And it kind of put a tear in my eye that this is what I wanted to be. I think I always loved space because I felt like as an oldest child of my family and the three children my mom and dad had, I always felt I was alone, so I wanted to be alone. Right. So I kind of gave myself away from everybody wanting to be out in space. So it kind of drove me to love space and have an opportunity to go and adventure those things and dream. Grab a couple toys, break them apart and look at how they're built together and. And look at how things can come together and work as a system as a young age.

Scott W. Luton [00:06:09]:

Oh, okay, David, that's a terrific answer. One quick follow up, Star Trek the Next Generation. Are you a fan or. Not so much a fan.

David Beck [00:06:17]:

I'm a fan.

Scott W. Luton [00:06:18]:

Okay, me too. Me too. All right, we're establishing the Trekkie component here. Kevin, same question. What's one of the. For folks listening out there not watching us, David Beck just pulled up his Sea Wars T shirt. There's a story there, too. We'll get to that in a minute.

Scott W. Luton [00:06:38]:

All right, so, Kevin, same question. Yours. Your answer may not be quite as good as David's, because that's a good one there in Carrollton, Mississippi, with his grandmother. Yeah, what. Where'd you fall in love with all things space or aviation or both?

Kevin L. Jackson [00:06:51]:

Well, you know, I remember sort of being fascinated by space, by the stars and the moon. And I remember early years, you know, getting a telescope and looking up at the stars, but it was just sort of admiration until Apollo 11. And, you know, I. I got up. I actually was living in Gulfport, Mississippi. See, David. And I remember getting up at 5am in the morning and my mother, you know, I got up, you know, I woke my mother up and said, they get ready to land on the moon. And she said, yeah, so what? I'm on the watch.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:07:47]:

And I went in there.

Scott W. Luton [00:07:48]:

She was not a fan.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:07:49]:

She was really a fan. And turned on the TV and watching, you know, Walter Cronkite. I remember him, you know, there when Armstrong went down and said his famous words. And Walter Cronkite there sort of crying about, you know, man making it on the moon. And at that instant, a switch clicked and I said, I'm going to do that. And from then on, I read everything about how to become an astronaut. And it meant you had to be a pilot. You had to go to test pilot school.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:08:37]:

And it was typically either an Air Force pilot or a Navy pilot. And since the Navy had the best pilots, that's what I mean. Oh, man, a Navy pilot. And that's. And, you know, then looking at Star Trek and everything, space and traveling, and I was just hooked from then on all the way till today.

Scott W. Luton [00:09:00]:

I love. I'm so glad we started this question because both you, David and Kevin paint such vivid pictures of that part of your journey. Richard, same question. What got you hooked?

Richard Donaldson [00:09:12]:

I'm almost following both these guys and trying to give my answer here. I mean, that's a lot to follow up on. And my good Lord, I'm inspired by these two and what inspired them, much less myself. Geez. So for me, kind of riffing off these guys a little bit, you know, as a kid, I was always, always fascinated by science fiction. Voracious reader of it, Isaac Asimov, all in the foundation series, kind of building on my answer here a little bit from before that. I literally remember those pages, reading that, and just my mind started just blowing up with all the potential that was out there. And as a kid, I didn't quite realize that Isaac Asimov and all these sci fi writers are physicists by training.

Richard Donaldson [00:09:51]:

They're generally scientists who've pushed the envelope of knowledge to the point that they couldn't even do anything other than write science fiction anymore about some of their own theories. And that alone created a framework for me that I've been following ever since and just going, we've got to be out there. And so to me, it feels like we're at that precipice. And I know through David works and Kevin's work, who I want to get into here so much with them. We are like on that very sort of formative stage of setting up where even Christopher Columbus left the European continent to go travel. We are traveling into space right now and setting up all the infrastructure to do that. And it's just, what an amazing time to be live and talk about this. We're realizing the science fiction dreams of decades ago is coming to fruition right now.

Scott W. Luton [00:10:36]:

Oh, Richard, very well said, Very well said. And I would just kind of pick something from all three of y'all. The shuttle, the shuttle, the shuttle that, you know, from roll from Seeing the very first launch in elementary school and, and seeing each and every one of those and the, the video conferences from when the astronauts from space and whatnot to. As an adult, more of an adult and really diving into all things Apollo and that program, Kevin, and how. And the velocity of that program. Right. Was amazing. And then to Richard, Richard's point, maybe he said it in pre show or maybe he said in the last response, but the James Webb Space Telescope.

Scott W. Luton [00:11:19]:

I try to keep up with all the new understandings and challenges of all the norms and assumptions and it is mind blowing how it's shaping our, our understanding of the universe. And you know, one of my favorite pictures is it's not blue marble. I love that one. But the little pale blue dot I think is what it's called.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:11:42]:

Okay.

Scott W. Luton [00:11:42]:

Yes. And it's. And I think one of the voyagers spacecraft. Spacecraft captured it millions of miles away. And we're just a tiny little speck in all, you know, in the grand expanse of things that. And that's powerful perspective. So David, Kevin and Richard, I can't wait to learn a lot, a lot more from all three of y'all here and appreciate Yalls passion. So let's do this.

Scott W. Luton [00:12:05]:

I want to refresh, you know, all three of y'all have accomplished big things out in the industry and I want to kind of make sure our audience is with us there, even though Kevin's been with us about 5,000 times. But David, let's start with you because this is the first time on supply chain. Now I gave a bit of a. Just a tip of the iceberg on your intro, but tell us a little more about yourself.

David Beck [00:12:25]:

So I mean, my love of science is mainly what I'm made of, but I think really what I care about is transportation safety and adequate opportunities for transportation to evolve. So most of my career, I would say 99.9% of my career has been focused on elevating, innovating and educating ways to build transportation infrastructure. Well, it's an ocean, land, sea or air. Now space. Because we need to find ways to get around out of state how important this planet is we live on every day, but also what's out there in the universe. Because the fascination of human innovation is built on what came from the stars down to earth and what we see in front of you today. So my background basically I started working in chemicals because you think about everything you build, you manufacture is came from chemicals, materials, and you go down to the small elemental structures of everything. I worked at BASF and then from basf I learned about how you the same additives, chemicals you put into making fertilizer for animals and seeds and things and taking impurities out of crude oil to make gasoline are not much different from each other.

David Beck [00:13:40]:

You also take those same chemicals and you can make antimicrobial products. You put in your sneakers, your clothes, your furniture that's shipped from China and other countries to keep them fresh from having mold and mildew. It's amazing how these two chemical, these three chemical bonded different industries are so connected together to amazing chemicals that grow sometime in our society as raw materials and then conversed and added through acids and in chemical dilution to become what they are you see and use every day. So that part of my career is founded on that. Then I moved from there and got into automotive for a few years. I've done everything in automotive except for the transmission, worked in overhead systems. The first job I had in automotive was actually doing front lights and headlights and tail lights to look at how metal is used to fabricate reflectatory properties. Putting ionization inside of plastic so you can get your headlights offers nice smooth polypropylene and things like that.

David Beck [00:14:43]:

So you look at the chemical side, it builds on the lighting and then looking at how the lighting built on. Okay. Electronics are built into lighting to make them work. So that worked into the engines. Looking at how the front display works, everything worked from CPU inside a car, same as the CPU inside of a spaceship or aircraft or anything else. Everything's intermittently connected that way. So I worked in the space sector for a little while and then I came back and worked in the government sector for the last 12. Last 12.

David Beck [00:15:16]:

The last 14 years. And also while I was in the government sector, I'm also working in the private sector to infuse private sector opportunities to build and allocate supply chain space, industrial base, what have you, so that we can have a real robust space sector which we don't have today, but we're building upon that when the work that Kevin and Richard does and you.

Scott W. Luton [00:15:40]:

Having this great podcast today, David, gosh, we could spend three hours just on. On your response and I think I.

David Beck [00:15:47]:

Just earned a certification.

Scott W. Luton [00:15:51]:

I think I just added a credential though. That is some highfalutin stuff and so no wonder. Now it makes perfect sense. Just kind of as you shared about all those stops in your journey, Richard, same thing for you. I really enjoyed your previous appearances with us on Supply Chain now and learning from you. Tell a little a little more about yourself to a lot of our viewers and Listeners out there.

Richard Donaldson [00:16:14]:

Absolutely. So again, I'm almost embarrassed to follow someone like Dr. Beck here, even Kevin for that matter, because they've got such storied backgrounds. But for myself, and actually I spent a little bit time in the water, but kind of a, kind of an entrepreneur of trades. Was in Silicon valley for about 25 years before I moved to Arizona. I was there right in 1997. So this whole Internet thing was just kind of getting going and just happened to land at the right place at the right time and sort of fell into technology and at that time investment banking, which was kind of kicking off a little bit some venture capital, then moved into startups where I was connecting the kind of baseline of the Internet. So moving from, I think all of us here old enough to remember 56k modems, and then ultimately transitioning to DSL.

Richard Donaldson [00:17:01]:

And so I was really at that kind of stage where I was helping to build the original kind of networks, going into small offices and things of nature, and then found myself in the data center side of things. So building the backend hardware infrastructure that runs most of the Internet along with the networks. And so kind of built a little bit of a career around that. Some names worked on most household names everyone here knows, most notably ebay. Spent about five years there working on building all their infrastructure along the way. Got a chance to, speaking of space, meet this guy named Zinn Surf who kind of helped build and create the Internet. He's at Google. And I'll never forget in kind of early 2000s, I was asked to got a chance to chat with him for a little bit.

Richard Donaldson [00:17:40]:

I said, hey, what are you working on? And he said, well, you know, I'm working on this interplanetary Internet connectivity. And I was like, what the hell? And he's like, yeah, you know, it's kind of a real thing. I said, oh my God, of course it is. And of course you're working on it. He said, you know, we got to kind of avoid like these things out in space called planets and stuff when we're transmitting around. And I just again, it kind of catalyzed my mind in the direction of where we're going with all this stuff. So anyways, while at ebay, I segued into supply chain of all things and was running, built a whole supply chain platform, left ebay to go build it, got into this whole vision of circularity. So been a bigger proponent of that, launched a podcast, did some things there.

Richard Donaldson [00:18:17]:

So been pretty active in the space and have always touched on space as kind of that, not final frontier, but that sort of really beginning frontier, quite frankly, in my opinion, because it's, it isn't the final. It's, it's just the beginning of us really exploring in the space. And I think, you know, again, what a time to be alive and especially have a conversation with these gentlemen here about where we're going with this.

Scott W. Luton [00:18:37]:

Richard, man, I learned three new things about you just in the last five minutes. That is amazing. And it's Vince guy. We're going to track this guy down. So, Kevin, to complete the, the trio here, the tremendous trio, you know, we talk a lot about, or I try to remind folks that you're a former naval aviator, you spent time at NASA. All of that's apropos for, for this conversation, but tell us a little more about your own journey.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:19:05]:

Yeah, sure. As I said, I, when I saw Armstrong step on the moon, that really drove me because in order to be a pilot, you have to be good in math, so you have to get high scores. I studied math, had to study science. All the astronauts had aerospace engineering degrees. So I went to have an engineering, aerospace engineering degree. And they, and they went to the military academy. So I went to the Naval Academy because I wanted to be a naval aviator. So see how it all all lines up.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:19:42]:

And so after, after about 12 years in the Navy, I was at the point where I could actually qualify to become an astronaut. So I was at the Navy Postgraduate School. I was finishing my master's in space systems engineering and I applied to become a space shuttle mission specialist. And it was like my entire life, this is what I wanted to do. And my heart, my body failed me. I failed medical for hypertension. I'm a naval aviator flying all over the place, but, you know, we're sort of like, oh, God. But I continued my space career because I went in the Navy space technology program and started as an engineer developing SPA satellites that went around the Earth.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:20:42]:

And, and after that, I actually retired from the Navy early. I started working on developing payload processing systems for NASA for the shuttle and the Atlas program. I actually had the distinct honor of processing the new Horizons spacecraft that went to Pluto. So that was one of my claim to fames. And then continue in advanced technology with cloud computing, worked in the intelligence community as they built their hybrid cloud and continued operating in space. And for instance, right now I'm working with a company for an edge and we are developing quantum resistant communications for space systems. And David knows we were out in California last month waiting for the Transporter 13 mission to launch.

Scott W. Luton [00:21:53]:

And it was eventually successful. Is that right, Kevin?

Richard Donaldson [00:21:56]:

Yeah.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:21:56]:

So we eventually launched on March 15th and we're in orbit with the first quantum resistant communication systems for satellite, for cubesats. Yeah. And for Space Force, by the way. So it's been great. I've really enjoyed my space related career even though I didn't become an astronaut. As they say, you know, cheek for the moon, you're landing the stars.

Scott W. Luton [00:22:36]:

Love that. Now to all of our audience members out there, that's exactly why I wanted our three panelists, our guest star and our two pseudo co host pseudo guests and Richard and Kevin to share about their journeys. Because I'm telling y'all, we've got a quite a collection of backgrounds and expertise here today to dive into space supply chain. So Richard, Kevin, David, thank you so much. And it's exciting. All I had is Space shuttle hot Wheels. That was, that was my space background. All right, so David, back to our featured guest.

Scott W. Luton [00:23:10]:

Officially, David, we've featured all sorts of veterans and representatives from across the United States armed forces over the years on our shows. But you are officially, we're talking 1400 episodes. You're the first leader from the US Space Force, so you're appreciate you spending time and breaking barriers here. And I've been dying to talk with someone from the Space Force. So this is very timely. So let's do this before we get there.

David Beck [00:23:33]:

Get material. Scott, I'm starting to cry here, man. Make me feel.

Scott W. Luton [00:23:38]:

Hey, you know, when you're, when you're a space nerd and the country finally forms up an official formal dedicated branch all things space and you're somewhat familiar with all the opportunities and challenges and as Richard's talked about a couple of times, the, the bold new opportunities, an exciting new chapter. I mean we should have done this decades ago. So it is really. But we did it. And David, I'm, I'm so thankful that smart people like you are leading our efforts here. And you know, I wish we had six hours to talk with you about it. But before we get into the Space Force. Yes, tell us David, space logistics, what is it and why is it so critically important?

David Beck [00:24:22]:

So space logistics is everything that encompasses a launch. So when you launch a vehicle in the space on the blue origin or whatever the carrier may be, ual the opportunity, once it leaves our atmosphere, the logistical part is keeping that payload together as well as keeping that rocket together. An opportunity to maintain that presence of that payload to do the mission. And it was built an expensive payload created to do so. The logistics parts is from day one assembly design to its infancy until it's been exhausted of what it's supposed to do in space. So it could be 30, 40 years. So logistically you got to keep it working, keep it running, keep it operable and sustainable for its effects to be used for government or commercial a carrier. So it's very important because a lot of people think that you build something, you launch it, it works.

David Beck [00:25:18]:

It's a lot of the. Kevin knows this more than I do. There's a lot of different things that go into the comp. The comp, the competition to keep a specific payload, either as a microsat, a mini sat or full a comparable space system in the orbit. And they keep it working. Thousands of people on the ground in orbit series, 1,000 people on the ground working with the what's in orbit to keep it running with blind eye to make sure this, this payload or this system is fully operable for its mission and providing good intel for that mission. So that can only maybe protect the nation, but also provide opportunity to increase innovation and technology by doing things as Richard done in his past to bring the VC sector into funding specific technology because it's proven in space. And that's why important ecosystem is.

David Beck [00:26:10]:

And logistics is very much the fluid of the ecosystem for space.

Scott W. Luton [00:26:14]:

All right, so before I get Richard and Kevin to comment, we heard there one clarifying question, David, which I really love. If I'm understanding you right, when you say space logistics, you're really talking about a very holistic definition of logistics. Not just the movement, but the technology, the support, the ongoing service, all of that stuff, right?

David Beck [00:26:33]:

Yes, it's the texture. I was recently at NASA's JPL facility and I did a tour with one of the directors and she showed me how that to man system has been there for three, four decades and why it's so imperatively important to every launch that comes out of every NASA center, every design, every assembly and the same thing for Space Force. We look at the whole arching systems approach when it comes to logistics. And everything is in the system and it needs to be operable and ready to go and ready to be sustained from a system approach or the mission won't be a failure and it won't go off as needed. And Kevin and I learned that most importantly when it comes to launch delays, because it took us two weeks to get 13 to launch and we were both ready to go out to Vandenberg and watch it launch. And we are eager to bring other people out there, but the space guys weren't ready for it to happen because they wanted to be a successful launch and everything to go as it needed to go. And it did.

Scott W. Luton [00:27:32]:

So. All right, we're going to get to that in just a second. But David, I want to, for all of our listeners and viewers out there, we don't want to leave anyone behind. You shared a couple of things. Jpl, the jet, that's the nat, that's the iconic Jet Propulsion Laboratory. I think I got that right, David.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:27:48]:

Right.

Scott W. Luton [00:27:49]:

It's been a part of so many critical missions. And then Vandenberg, he's referring to Vandenberg Air Force Base out in California, which Space Force. I gotta update my references.

David Beck [00:28:04]:

The reason Kevin said that, Scott, because LA Air Force Base was supposed to be transformed to LA Space Force Base, but due political reasons, it's still Air Force Base, which kind of sours us as Space Force people. So we want to get our credit for one base we got with Space Force on it. It's not that many.

Scott W. Luton [00:28:24]:

That is important that that turf. It's very important. So now no more Richard. I'll come to Richard first and then I'll come back to Kevin. Richard, when he goes back to what David's talking about, about very holistic space logistics, pull something out that you that our listeners or our viewers should really keep front and center.

Richard Donaldson [00:28:44]:

Well, one thing is, and I think I'm going to shift back to David if I could kind of build on his description there, because the logistics there is really about the logistics of creating the infrastructure, connectivity to whatever it is, the next thing, whether it be a spaceport or a space station. I mean, we're literally at the infancy stages laying the tracks for the trains. And logistics right now is specific because when I think supply chain, we all sudden start thinking logistics of bringing things back, like space rocks and mining and minerals, which we're not even there yet, even though we're kind of tepidly talking about it and landing on comets and things like that. So the question really is to David, to space war has only been around for six years. And actually there's also a question over kind of to Dave and Kevin can comment on and build on it how, given how much knowledge, I mean, right now things are moving so fast, right? We're in a world where things are changing so quickly. And now that we're focused in space with a Space Force, even in just six years of being around, has the mission changed or evolved with what we're just even exploring from your perspective, I mean, what do you see even in that timeframe that's changed in the last five or 10 years given how much we're putting into space right now.

David Beck [00:29:51]:

Yeah, the one thing about that Richard is world constantly changes. Adversaries are constantly changing their maneuverability and what they try to come after us from a mental stability. They start in the head first and then work up. The space has changed considerably over the last few months and the woes the last few years with innovations in technology. So we have approach the acquisition process as Air force and other DoD colleagues have with a approach of building something robust, rad harden, sustainable, usually guided and very deep technical and sustainable hardware focused innovation. But things have changed now where they're more of a micro side cubesat. Let's use more innovative startup technology to get the same resources and sustainability and more innovative technology usage and less time in building an approach so that we can launch better capabilities through a rapid acquisition process.

Scott W. Luton [00:30:56]:

Oh man. Rapid acquisition process. We could have a whole series about that. That's a great question, Richard. Great response, David. Kevin, you've been on the sidelines. We covered a lot of ground since last time you jumped in. Whether it's something that David said about space logistics or how he described the.

Scott W. Luton [00:31:15]:

The ever fast moving evolution.

David Beck [00:31:19]:

Right.

Scott W. Luton [00:31:20]:

Kevin, what's on your mind? Share.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:31:23]:

I doubt that the audience and not to talk bad about the audience. All right. I don't do that really understand or comprehend the breadth of space logistics.

Scott W. Luton [00:31:38]:

Right.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:31:39]:

And I want to give a couple of numbers.

Scott W. Luton [00:31:42]:

Yep.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:31:42]:

In 2023 there were 363 cubesats launched into low orbit.

Scott W. Luton [00:31:54]:

So Kevin, real quick, real quick, what's. What the heck is a cubesat? Just to make sure.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:32:00]:

Great question. Everyone knows a satellite orbits around the Earth, right? A CubeSat also orbits around the Earth, but most of them are the size of a shoebox or a coaster. All right. A quote satellite. You're talking about the size of a refrigerator or a car. Right. But no matter how big or small it is, each satellite has logistics, communications, people. It's the launch on a rocket, right.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:32:42]:

You have to monitor it during its entire life. So no matter the size, there's a huge logistics trail tail associated with it. So in 2023 there were 363 of these things launched in the low Earth orbit as of September of 2024 of last year. In 2024, 3/4 of the way through 2,505 campsites.

Scott W. Luton [00:33:17]:

Wow.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:33:17]:

Had been launched with 2,381 successfully reaching orbit. Think about that. You went from 300 to 2400 in less than a year, what type of infrastructure growth, what type of logistics growth. This is why we need space logistics, David. This is why we have this Space Force, right?

Scott W. Luton [00:33:49]:

That's right.

David Beck [00:33:50]:

Just to add to that, Scott, I'll interrupt you, but Space Force has been around for almost six years. We did not have a space industrial base focus because when we built the organization, it's a bits and pieces of what was here once Space Mobility Command, which was part of the U.S. air Force. And as Kevin know, space was an afterthought for Air Force Air Force pilots. So they didn't look at that part. Even though Air Force still uses satellite systems and launched their own individual systems in orbit from their basis for specific needs. This was a dedicated system organization built in the 1940s and 50s out of the Cold War to delicately look at ways to perforate systems in orbit for national security protection and work with our collaborative System partners throughout DoD in our sister nations across the globe. So there's an emphasis on growing that as a child would grow with a parent, become what it needs to do when it grows up.

David Beck [00:34:51]:

Right. So I created, with efforts from my colleagues when I first started this position three years ago, Space industrial based office. And we do have a substantiated space industrial based office which can leave me to be into the space access, mobility and logistics standpoint to build out that with launch and capabilities for our sustainment.

Scott W. Luton [00:35:12]:

I want to ask a little bit more. You've already shared some perspective on this next question I'm going to ask you, but I want to, I want to circle back, make sure we don't miss anything, anything critically important. But first, based on Kevin's numbers he shared a little while ago, those thousands of thousands, I am forming today Space Air Traffic Controller llc and we're, we're gonna ride this wave. But kidding aside, you touched on this already as I mentioned, David, but what else when it comes to the US Space Force's role in space logistics, do you want to add so we can really level set?

David Beck [00:35:48]:

My thoughts are from a future standpoint, once we look at the future perspectives for how Space Force plays in the area of not just sustainment for national security, but sustainment for space innovation that the joint forces across DoD, including a private public partnerships, would be working consistently together with Space Force to put systems in orbit and put in orbit capabilities that will sustain us not only in Leo, Geo, Meo and Cislunar and beyond, but also extra planetary alpens that go to Mars to other systems within our constellations to look at furthering innovation in science and technology, because you look at the moon, helium 3, water, helium 3 are one of the two most important things in space you need for longevity emissions. And you need to look at how you put out different substations within the orbit so that you can refuel, whether using helium drive or using conventional rocket propulsion systems with, you know, we have a variety of different uses there to gain knowledge, to go further than we do in our own atmosphere or planetary existence, to get crosses to other ways in the universe and see what's out there.

Scott W. Luton [00:37:04]:

Oh, man. Okay. All right, I'm. I'm going to pose one more question, David, and I'm going to get Richard and Kevin to comment here. And this is a related question. And you've already touched on this as well. We got a bunch of good stuff already out of the table. But I don't want to miss anything when it comes to space logistics and how important it is to our country's economy and future.

Scott W. Luton [00:37:24]:

You've already touched on national security, you've touched on the knowledge and the technology gains. You've touched on some of the natural resource and the science gains that we're going to, will certainly make as space logistics powers so many of these initiatives. But what else, why else is space logistics so critically important to our economy and, you know, future generations?

David Beck [00:37:51]:

Well, you look at the perspective of growth. Our infrastructure here on Earth is very limited in terms of the way we use the materials we use, the opportunities to make it better for our transportation. Using conventional cars, you know, gasoline engines or electric vehicles or hydrogen or wherever you want to. Using a logistic platform in space to look at how we build our space can help us innovate on the planet Earth and be more consistent, use materials, use technologies can give us a better transportation footprint to be more environmentally friendly and more environmentally progressive so that we're not destroying the planet by digging up trenches of highway system and toxic waste and things like that that we've done for so long. And you see across the globe how our transportation system is very deteriorating over time. I mean, here in Los Angeles, where we have cracks all over the street, I get out of my car, I drive down the street, I hear a bumping every five minutes. I'm thinking, my rotors and everything fall out the car. Because our transportation system logistically is not where it needs to be, because everything ages.

David Beck [00:38:57]:

But the thing about space is it's no air. All the gravity you have on the planet is not there. If you can build materials in space that can withstand space comfortableness with radiation Hardening and things like that. You put them on a planet, it lasts for generations to come. So that your great, great grandkids are riding the same highway in the same condition you are at 3 today.

Scott W. Luton [00:39:22]:

David, I really appreciate your response. And I think so many folks, you know, as Richard and Kevin, as we've had, you know, space anecdotes and various shows over time here, sometimes folks will hit me on social media and say, what are we doing? We got all these problems on Earth and we need to keep some of that money here. And I keep telling them we're going to invest more on space, which will help us solve more problems here on Earth, which is a part of David's response there. And we can't lose sight of that. Kevin, let's go in reverse order. Kevin, what'd you hear there?

Kevin L. Jackson [00:39:55]:

Well, one thing I wonder. A couple things I kind of heard. I'm going back to his earlier response. He threw out a lot of acronyms. I wanted to clarify a few of them because this is important. He talked about leo, which is low Earth orbit. He talked about meo, which is mid Earth orbit. You talk about Hell, which is high Earth orbit.

Scott W. Luton [00:40:24]:

You talk about just colleagues at the Space Force. Kevin, I'm glad you clarified this.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:40:30]:

You talked about cis, lunar. All right, this, these are transfer orbits to go to the moon. Okay. And orbit the moon, each of these. And he also mentioned Mars. There are transfer orbits like Holman, to go through to Mars. Right. These are all different destinations that provide different types of services, different economic value to the country.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:41:03]:

And it's really important to understand that the space economy is linked directly to the national economy. So it's not just about defense. It's about your bank account, the job that you're going to ought to have. And in about 20, like right now this year, the space, commercial space, this is not the government space. Commercial space economy is around $600 million, growing to 1.8 trillion in 2035.

Scott W. Luton [00:41:53]:

You read my mind, Kevin. You stole one of my developments. I mean, I was going to share in just a second. But pitting aside, that is, you know, opportunities have been used by all three of y'all repeatedly through the first, you know, three, four, this conversation or whatever. And, Kevin, those that dog will hunt, as we like to say here in Georgia, lots and lots of opportunity, right, Kevin?

Kevin L. Jackson [00:42:14]:

Jobs, yes. Money, yes. Opportunity, yes.

Scott W. Luton [00:42:20]:

Breakthroughs, new solutions. It's going to have a ripple effect across many, many other industries.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:42:26]:

Where did that come from?

Scott W. Luton [00:42:28]:

Yes, that's how I heat up my Starbucks. Egg. Egg. Breakfast thing every morning still like it's 1982. Richard, man, I tell you what, before, in a second I'm going to ask all three of y'all some tips for companies out there that want to get more involved in the space economy to, to find those opportunities that we're getting out here and talking about. But Richard, before we go forward, between what David and Kevin have both talked about, your thoughts?

Richard Donaldson [00:43:00]:

Oh, I mean there's again, this is one of those things where I'm trying to constrain myself. You said it at the beginning was try to be kithy and short and concise. I think for all of us, I've learned here that's hard for us to do, but we're doing our best. So in that I'm going to kind of, kind of try to get back to both David and Kevin here as sort of an open ended question a little bit more on the military side, I'm going to go back to the Space Force since we're really featuring David here and again going back to that evolution of the mission. So it's a two part question, which is one you really are referencing again laying the foundation for what ultimately will be a supply chain going into space and coming back from space to Earth. And we're at the very formative stages that, and it seems like the Space Force from what I'm hearing is really geared towards a militaristic view of securing these beachheads, if you will, or land grabs or space grabs or moon grabs or whatever. First and foremost, however, partnering now with private industry who might be doing the more economic exploration of monetizing is kind of Kevin's outlining here the trillions of dollars that will be coming. So one first part of the question is, is that, is that true? And then as the Space Force evolving and as you look forward, how does that mission begin to evolve to keep pace with all of that? And the second part to the question is we also mentioned everyone else on planet Earth, India, China, everybody's trying to get to space right now, right? So as we look across all of our colleagues, you look at the International Space Station, it's usually populated with people from all over the world, but now there's real competition going on with China specifically, with India specifically.

Richard Donaldson [00:44:32]:

So first, how do you look at those competitors both as, you know, what's, oh gosh, what have they got that we don't? And then secondly, kind of building on that, like what are they doing differently than what we're doing right now and kind of riff on that I think.

David Beck [00:44:46]:

Part of that is our competitors has taken what we had and moved forward because they're more of a rapid approach to get ahead of the game of us being number one in the space for quite some time. But if you look at the perspective of have we ever been in number one for the front seat of the driver's seat? We really haven't. We did a lot of great things in space. We've done a lot. We still continue to do great and applicable things in space. But innovation waits for no one. It just doesn't. I mean, space is one of the areas of technology innovation, areas that things change.

David Beck [00:45:22]:

Second millisecond, not seconds, but milliseconds. As we sit in this phone call right now, a company is devising a brand new propulsion system that can go probably 20 years, light years in the future. But they don't have the fund to do so because the brain trust is building this. Do not have the opportunity to know how to talk or build a business plan, how to work with the Space Force or anybody in the area because they're not part the community effort, which I think we need to build more of, make this a common practice to work in space, a common approach. We need as DOD wise to look at how the engagement has not worked where we want it to be to this point. And yes, we're going through a lot of changes in this administration, but we need to look at how from a space centric way, we can do better in bringing these innovative companies in to build infrastructure for space, to look at perforation in the future and make this a common knowledge among everybody in all the states to say, hey, space is something where my kid to go into. They can get an entrepreneurship job, they can build, work for the government, they can work for a private company, they can innovate and elevate and educate along in this area. But we do need, to your point, we need private sector investment.

David Beck [00:46:39]:

So two years ago when I started this, two and a half years ago when I started this position in Space Force, first thing I looked at, because I worked a lot in the VC area when I was in dc when I took my uniform off, I was always out there trying to look at ways we can do better in transportation, is that I called to a bunch of the VCs and say, look, we would love to see how we can really best fit some of this technology so you can invest in it. We had a unit meeting at DIU and we talked to all the different agencies and that came up that the commercial space Office out of commerce would be the headquarters for all this. Eventually when we get this thing pushed together and to have a private public partnership with the government to build our space architecture because space is hard. It's very expensive, very expensive because it's very new and technology that we need to get where we need to go is not even invented today. So that's a lot of stress, a lot of hard work, a lot of innovation that needs to be done in the trenches and built out so that we can have an infrastructure and be variable infrastructure to benefit us here on planet as well.

Scott W. Luton [00:47:40]:

You know, it's interesting in his response to your, your great questions, Richard is as much cutting edge talent and ideas and technology that's fueling and we got to have when it comes to space economy, we still need, to his point, a lot of more traditional investment and know how and how to put a business plan together and all of that. And I'm thinking of a Venn diagram, but I'm not sure if it's going to come to fruition where I can explain it well enough here today. We'll circle back. Good old Venn diagram. But David, fascinating stuff and excellent questions. Richard, let's do this. I want to get all three of y'all to chime in on this next question. And that is tips for companies out there that want to get more involved in the space economy.

Scott W. Luton [00:48:28]:

The space economy is a massive ecosystem. Now we've been spending a bunch of our conversation on space logistics, which is a big piece. But there's opportunities for everybody out there. And I want to start. Kevin, I'm a reverse order. Kevin, what would be a tip or two that you would have?

Kevin L. Jackson [00:48:44]:

The first thing is it's a mind thing. Space is not the future, it's today. Right? There are requirements in just about every industry that support the space economy today. You need to have different type of furnaces in space to create different alloys and materials. There's opportunities to grow tissue in space. So there are doctors on Earth that are doing experiments on and comparing tissues that are grown in space versus those that are on Earth. There are new fuels that are being created. The mission that we launched on had a new ion rocket that they were testing in low Earth orbit.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:49:41]:

Think about the logistics associated with the development and launch of that ion rocket. So it's, it's today, it's not tomorrow. Be, be broad in what you think about and go after it because chances are you're the only one doing it. There's a company called Space Phoenix Phoenix that called themselves the FedEx of low earth Orbit.

Scott W. Luton [00:50:09]:

Okay, I like it. There's a podcast title there. Furnaces, fuels and the FedEx of low earth Orbit. How about that? You know, we're big fans of alliteration. I think that's what that's called. Richard, on top of Kevin's tips for folks out there that want to get involved in this massive opportunity that I don't think I'm being too dramatic. It's going to change civilization. It's this next big chapter.

Scott W. Luton [00:50:33]:

I don't think that's dramatic at all.

Richard Donaldson [00:50:35]:

Richard, I don't think you're being dramatic at all. And I think that's, that's kind of why the whole panel's here. I think this, this is one of to come. This is going to be a normal conversation ten years from now. This isn't going to be a, you know, oh, let's look forward. It's like to Kevin's point, it is here. Now we're in it. And so not just a tip, but I'll just give an example.

Richard Donaldson [00:50:52]:

Right, sure. And, and there's a little shout out to a company, I don't know if David or Kevin fl. But with Astra Space, Right. Founded by a guy named Chris Kemp. Now, Chris Kemp, his claim to fame is not a pilot, not the military. He was an open source software developer, made his money doing that and said, I'm going to go build rockets. Okay. Now, arguably it's a little early because we're still in the formative stages, kind of getting the stuff going.

Richard Donaldson [00:51:18]:

To Kevin's point, even the VC side of it is like, oh, my God, there's only a $300 million, you know, gross economy here. But it, you know, it's like, no, no, no, this is. And I actually think the 1.5 trillion is, is underselling it. Right. If the total global economy is 100 trillion, I think the space economy is like a 10x multiple of the global economy in its grandiose sense. And it's actually infinite not to be too far out there with the economic potential of what exists out there. So you really have to start thinking and not be constrained by, oh, I'm not a rocket scientist. Well, that doesn't matter.

Richard Donaldson [00:51:50]:

Right.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:51:51]:

It's.

Richard Donaldson [00:51:51]:

Can you think creatively about problems that we've never even thought of before? So this is really about truly harnessing the entrepreneurial spirit, which is going out and posing and risking and doing things in an area that is completely unknown. There are no textbooks for what David and Kevin are doing. David and Kevin are writing the textbooks that people will follow 10, 20, 30 years from now. And that's literally how the Internet was started. You know, and I go back to my days in 97. There was no textbook and how to build the Internet. There was no business plan how build Internet companies. But you just did it, right? And that's kind of what this is all about.

Richard Donaldson [00:52:26]:

So it's kind of harnessing that sort of exploratory entrepreneurial spirit, applying it to something that is no longer a fantasy or written about in science fiction books, but is the here and the now and is connecting with people like David and Kevin specifically because they're the ones that are going to help you realize that dream if you're a young entrepreneur right now.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:52:45]:

Thank you, Richard.

Scott W. Luton [00:52:47]:

Yes.

Richard Donaldson [00:52:48]:

Shout out to you guys.

David Beck [00:52:50]:

I wish David, I wish Richard would shout out to Scott. There's a company called Thomas Texas right there in Atlanta, Georgia. We work with them for like three years to get them close to where they are now. They're on two stratify attack fives. I am leading. The other one is a POC for Space Force and one doing a focal point array. And they're probably two projects away from having a billion dollar valuation out of Atlanta, Georgia Space company in Atlanta. And the founder, he came from Mississippi, but he's a Georgian guy, his wife is from Georgia.

David Beck [00:53:22]:

So you're out there, Georgia. Something to be proud of. It's just the fact that I think people misunderstand how important space is. It doesn't matter what part of country you're from, what's your background, you can innovate, you can create, and you can be a part of space community. And that's very important to everybody on this call.

Scott W. Luton [00:53:39]:

Folks, if you're listening or if you're viewing, I highly suggest you take it to heart. Something. There's so many opportunities. No matter where you are in your journey and your walk of life or where you are business wise, there's so much opportunity now. David, did you say Thomas Six? Is that the name of the company?

David Beck [00:53:57]:

6A T O M C6 Georgia.

Scott W. Luton [00:54:02]:

Yeah, that sounds so much better than Thomas Six. Hey, man, sounds like a new superhero. All right, so, David, one other thing. I'm gonna circle back. You know, Richard and Kevin both was giving examples and giving some suggestions or some tips for, you know, finding opportunities. David, last thing, you just urge everyone out there not to sleep on the space economy. Anything else before we shift over to some of the developments we're intrigued by in this space. Any other advice you'd offer for potential space economy entrepreneurs or business people.

David Beck [00:54:40]:

This is for everyone now, 50 states and territories. Please reach out to a congressman, your senators, and advocate for more space funding, more space innovation in your state, your neighborhood, your neighbor, your neighborhood, so that we can build a adequately and precisely robust space community. Thank you for that.

Scott W. Luton [00:55:02]:

Awesome. All right. And it's just because Kevin and David have Mississippi at least roots and part of their journey, no matter where you are in all 50 states and beyond. You know, it's been interesting, Richard, Kevin and David, to see the space race truly become a global phenomenon. You know, not like the Cold War where it was, you know, the US and, and Russia, ussr. It is such a incredible global phenomenon from India to the uae. I mean, all the different accomplishments that have been achieved in recent years. So let's do this speaking.

Scott W. Luton [00:55:39]:

This is a great segue, David, Kevin and Richard. Even though Kevin stole one of my developments, when it comes to market styles, that's okay. What I want to po get all of y'all to weigh in on is one or two developments across space supply chain or the space industry that you really find intriguing. Okay. It can be recent, it could be something from last year, you name it. And I'm going to start by sharing just a couple factoids. Kevin spoke to the size, that's remarkable. You know, I think it was.

Scott W. Luton [00:56:09]:

And, and Kevin, you're you. And my numbers might, might differ just a smidge, but they're very close. Kevin was talking about 600 billion in 2024. It's going to grow to over a trillion just by 2033. That is massive when it comes to rocket launches, I'm still, I've still got those cubesat numbers that are boggling my mind. Kevin. But when it comes to rocket launches, SpaceX launches about 80% of all spacecraft from my, from what I'm seeing on the data side, they had 134 orbital launches in 2024 and the company is targeting 170 in 2025. And then finally, just like in terrestrial supply chain.

Scott W. Luton [00:56:50]:

Right. On Earth. I think I said that right. AI is also being leveraged in some pretty cool ways in space supply chain. One example ties in perfectly with, with what Kevin was talking about because we know that orbit, you know, there's lots and lots of new neighbors that taken up presence in, in orbit, whether it's Low Earth, Middle Earth or maybe even Higher Earth. I'm learning, I'm still learning about Heyo, I think, as David and Kevin called it. But advanced AI is being used to help with Satellite collision avoidance, which is going to be even bigger. It's big now.

Scott W. Luton [00:57:23]:

It's going to be even bigger as more and more folks and technologies, countries and businesses take advantage of the massive opportunity just in, in Earth orbit as that relates to the space economy. So, David, we're going to go. David, Richard and Kevin here as we kind of grab an assortment of developments. David, what else here that we haven't touched about that. When you think about the space economy that you're just fascinated with, what else comes to mind?

David Beck [00:57:55]:

Well, it's like everything we do is building systems. You still have to clean up those systems you built. So space debris and removal is one of the biggest things on our priority, I think the priority for all mission systems for launching the space. Because every time you launch a rocket, a piece pops off, it sits in orbit and it sits. And mitigating that is very important. So I think one of the biggest challenges we have is reclamation, build stuff in space, building out what Kevin said earlier, ways to take those minerals, those, those substances and build maybe in orbit, manufacturing rockets and launching from orbit instead of launching from ground, which save fuel and actually give you a better perforation of where you want to go and you can go in a faster, more convenient way. So those two things I think are very important to the future of sustainability and mitigation in space.

Scott W. Luton [00:58:48]:

Outstanding. I love that. And going back to the first point you made, debris removal as you, as you were describing that I might get the number wrong. I don't know how I could do this, but it was it Apollo. What was the famous movie with Tom Hanks?

David Beck [00:59:03]:

13.

Richard Donaldson [00:59:03]:

Yes, 13.

Scott W. Luton [00:59:04]:

And that scene where the stages are, are, you know, is moving to different stages and you see that famous oval.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:59:12]:

Twist.

Scott W. Luton [00:59:13]:

Yes. And I don't know, in that case, that, that's a great example if, if that hangs out in Earth orbit.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:59:20]:

Yes.

Scott W. Luton [00:59:20]:

Okay. All right, Kevin. I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit smarter than I thought I was then, but that is a. David, that sounds like a massive opportunity, not just out of necessity, but even better for entrepreneurial ventures out there that want to apply, you know, as Richard said, new ways of solving, you know, old and new problems. Massive opportunity for folks.

David Beck [00:59:42]:

All right. There's almost 9 metric trillion tons of space debris in orbit traveling at 24,000 miles a second.

Scott W. Luton [00:59:54]:

Wow. Okay.

Kevin L. Jackson [00:59:56]:

If anyone's really interested in that, look up rogue space. They have what's called Orbots that they're designing to launch, to grapple, and to bring back the trash from orbit. So if you want to be a orbital trash man? Call Rogue, face big money Orbots.

Scott W. Luton [01:00:21]:

Kind of like gobots when you wanted Transformers and you got gobots back in the day, huh? But Kevin, that's fascinating. I'm going to check out Rogue and their Orbots. But big problem, big problem we're going to have to tackle more effectively so we can leverage and seize the opportunity. Carpe diem, as Robin Williams said in that famous movie. Standing on desks and stuff. That was cool. Richard, what development or two is intriguing to you?

Richard Donaldson [01:00:54]:

So again, I think, you know, David and Kevin are, have focused so much on, and rightly so, kind of what's going on around here, Earth as well. David kind of opined a little bit about going to Mars, but I'm looking at the Musk's mission next year where he's sending a robot, if I understand correctly, here to Mars.

Kevin L. Jackson [01:01:12]:

Right.

Richard Donaldson [01:01:12]:

So it's a non manned because again and unbeknownst to most people here, but David and Kevin obviously could talk hours on this. You know, existing human beings existing in space is still so new to us. We don't know quite the physiological stresses, right? We don't even understand what's going on to us. Much less able to withstand that kind of travel just from a human physiological point of view. So we're going to send a robot up there. So now I'm kind of bringing not just our space exploration, but AI and singularity because I all of a sudden now have the robot from the foundation series being launched by Musk himself, who's going to be immortal living on Mars and is going to guide humanity from a different planet. So I mean that's. But that to me feels like, you know, science fiction coming to fruition right now.

Richard Donaldson [01:01:59]:

And that alone, you know, that to me right now Mars is, I mean the moon's fun and all the stuff around us is, you know, of course the stepping stone to that. But even now we just recently discovered even the lunar lander, you know, things that we just don't know, you know, the formation of biological life there. We have a whole, I think it was sulfur or something along those lines that they found, you know, scattered along the surface. Where again it's all this, you know, we don't know what we don't know, but there's been water deposits, there's been all the microorganisms or at least the remnants of what would have been bio organisms that were there at some point in time or another. And so that to me is just like, oh my God, you're Just scratching the surface of that, you know, curiosity, which is, you know, what are we going to find? And so I think that to me really feels like that. That to me feels like that's really going to be kind of the planting that flag and developing that first route to our first, you know, next planet for exploration purposes, discovery purposes, and potentially even supply chain purposes.

Scott W. Luton [01:03:00]:

Oh, Richard, I love that question you threw out there. What are we going to find? I think about that almost every day, really. Whether it's our telescope peering deeper and deeper into the cosmos or in a more tangible way, you know, all the cool things that the Space Force is doing and the space economy and all the players. It is fascinating. And, and, you know, that will be an answer, that will be a question, what are we going to find that will have endless, endless answers for sure. Kevin. All right, you're the home run hitter. After David and Richard, I'm gonna have to.

Scott W. Luton [01:03:37]:

After today's podcast, I'm gonna have to go back and listen to this episode and all you smart people much, much slower so my brain can catch up, really. We assemble one of the smartest panels, I think, in all things supply chain, space for space, supply chain. But Kevin, what's a couple of developments that are intriguing to you?

Kevin L. Jackson [01:03:59]:

Well, one thing that really, I mean, I work in space all the time. Right, right. Oh, and, and it just shocked me. And maybe I shouldn't be, I should be embarrassed by this, but while we were working on the Transporter 13 mission, I found out that that one rocket had 74 separate payloads. I mean, when you think about a rocket and a payload, you say, okay, one rocket, one payload. No.

David Beck [01:04:35]:

74.

Kevin L. Jackson [01:04:37]:

Yeah. This is a core business of SpaceX. It's called rideshare. Every one of their transporter missions is basically uber to low Earth orbit for others. And what this does is it lowers the cost of space access. This is why high schools, colleges, individuals can afford to have a great idea, build it, put it on a rocket and put it in low earth orbit. You don't need to be a billionaire or a billionaire to have a great idea for the space economy. And when I found out that all about this business model.

Kevin L. Jackson [01:05:35]:

It's a business model. It's the uber business model for low earth orbit. Okay. It exists right now also those 74.

David Beck [01:05:45]:

Different payloads that are on there from all over the world. So EXO launched with the company, everything came out on there, and there were 70 we talk about from all over the world. So you mean a multiple parade of different technologies on one Mission that is amazing to see that and launch in the space. Just want to bring it up as well. Thank you.

Scott W. Luton [01:06:06]:

It is amazing, all of this. Your perspective is mind boggling quite quite frankly. Where we are, where we're headed. But going back to the ride share thing, Kevin, I'm gonna put a twist on this. We just had, I bet Richard and Kevin and David, you may know this guy, Mark Gorland. Mark Gorland founded Roadie and he was on the buzz with us a week or two ago and he talked about what gave him the inspiration. I think he needed something to go somewhere and he was in. I think he was in Mississippi, as a matter of fact, or Alabama.

Scott W. Luton [01:06:40]:

And he saw a pickup truck heading down with, with stuff in it, had a little room. He's like, I wonder if I can stick some more tiles in there to go wherever that guy's going. And that kind of gave him the inspiration idea to come up with a supply chain ride sharing logistics, ride sharing called Roadie. And that thing is just blown up left and right. So going to Kevin's point, his Eureka moment is not just one payload. You got 74 different payloads on that one rocket.

Kevin L. Jackson [01:07:12]:

Yes.

Scott W. Luton [01:07:13]:

Is the celestial version of Rhodey.

Kevin L. Jackson [01:07:16]:

Yes.

Scott W. Luton [01:07:17]:

But certainly the current version of where space supply chain is. And no telling where we're going, but we've gotten a good idea of where we're going. And talking with Dr. David Beck, Kevin L. Jackson and Richard Donaldson. Kevin, were you going to add. I don't want to cut you off where you got it. One more thing.

Kevin L. Jackson [01:07:34]:

Well, the only thing I want to add is that this is competition. As David said, that seat on that rocket go to the highest bidder. So there were companies from, there were payloads from all over the world on that launch. And if, if you want to be, you know, competitive in the world, you have to be in space.

Richard Donaldson [01:08:02]:

I can't, I can't resist because I got it. I know I've been saying Isaac Asimov. I know I've been saying the foundation. But Kevin was making me think of Frank Herbert now and Dune, which is now everyone's kind of seeing the movies, right? And what Kevin's describing, if you want to think about it to conclusion, is what effectively is the Spacing Guild in Dune. It is literally the transportation infrastructure that connects the entire known universe. It's the most powerful backchannel part of Dune. And it's one of the characters or even organizations that if you really read the story carefully, is literally the linchpin of the entire universal civilization that he writes About. And Kevin's literally talking about the formation of that right now.

Richard Donaldson [01:08:46]:

This is the early Space and Guild delivery systems of people, products and what have you. And I mean, to me, it's just like, oh, my God. Like, I just. It's hard to contain myself right now.

Kevin L. Jackson [01:08:59]:

Don't hold it back, Richard. Don't hold back.

Richard Donaldson [01:09:02]:

Yeah, right, right, right, right, right.

Scott W. Luton [01:09:03]:

I'm gonna have to go see what old Frank was writing about. Richard. I have Dune yet, but I'm gonna learn more about the Space Guild. Is that what you call the Space Guild? Yes.

David Beck [01:09:14]:

Yeah.

Richard Donaldson [01:09:14]:

It's just basically is what Kevin's describing is it's what transported everyone around the universe. And they were not a tie to any government, they were tied to any planet, but they were the most powerful organization in the universe. The Emperor bowed down to them because without them, you couldn't get anywhere. And that just tells you how important supply chain and logistics is. And so it's not feature of the books, but if you read them carefully, it is actually kind of the quiet power within the books.

Scott W. Luton [01:09:39]:

I love that we should, you know, we should hold our supply chain. Practitioners and professionals, all the people that make supply chain logistics happen every single day in much higher regard. Maybe up to that point where emperors and the like are. Are bowing or saluting. I don't know. I'll save that for later. But it is remarkable what gets done, whether it's more earthbound supply chain or certainly in space supply chain. So, David Beck, Kevin L.

Scott W. Luton [01:10:09]:

Jackson, Richard Donaldson, fascinating conversation here today. I want to make sure that our viewers and our listeners, all of our beloved audience members know how to connect with you after Today's show. So, Dr. David Beck, thanks so much for being here today. Being the first Space Force member to share perspective and expertise with our global family here at Supply Chain. Now, how can folks connect with you after today's show?

David Beck [01:10:33]:

David, you can follow me on LinkedIn. I don't do regular social media due to my job and just keeping myself cleaned up off the Internet trail. But I'm on LinkedIn right now as David. I think you can find me on the. David Beck MBA has been there for like 30 years. 20.

Scott W. Luton [01:10:51]:

I'm not 30 years.

David Beck [01:10:52]:

20 years. 21 years. My LinkedIn page has been there. And there's also a posting on there about space debris I did about three days ago. I think it's around 20,000 people checked it out on my page. If you swing through a couple of slides over from the CBAS one, but it talks about the amount of space Debris compared to the International Space Station and the trajectories. And it's a quiz about what NASA's has put together on that area. Okay, thank you.

Scott W. Luton [01:11:22]:

Outstanding. Well, thank you. And we'll try to make it really easy, maybe Even add your LinkedIn profile to the show notes. But fascinating stuff. And clearly I was going to say you were an earlier adopter of LinkedIn technology, which doesn't surprise me because you strike me as someone that's an early adopter of lots of lots and lots of technology. I still remember the first person that was saying, Scott, have you seen this Uber thing? You just plug it on your phone, you can go from here and there. You don't have to worry about hailing taxes. I thought he was crazy, but nowadays, I mean, goodness, that's a big part of life.

David Beck [01:11:55]:

Can I get another shout out, Scott? Shout out to ShipperPro from Memphis, Tennessee. AI driven technology company that uses AI to help you ship logistics. The founder is from Memphis, Tennessee. He's a southern guy and I've been on the board for many years. But you should interview him as well as at Thomas Sticks on your Codcast, because ShipperPro is a logistics supply chain software company.

Scott W. Luton [01:12:19]:

ShipperPro, right, David?

Kevin L. Jackson [01:12:20]:

Yes, ShipperPro.

David Beck [01:12:22]:

They're on LinkedIn. ShipperPro. ShipperPro uses AI to package. So this is why I think Shipping Pro is important for space is Kevin wants to ship a bunch of stuff into space and go somewhere, some location. This AI will look at logistically, how to put everything within a small compartment and package it correctly. Because insurance claims. Right, insurance claims will be in space as well when you ship. And you'll make sure your products, your projects get from here to office in Torre, just hypothetically speaking here.

David Beck [01:12:51]:

So that would be a good opportunity to show how you logistically and supply chain wise ship something to get to 1.1, to point B without having all the damage you incurred. Now it should be shipped on earth and different, different types of shipping containers or makes sense.

Scott W. Luton [01:13:06]:

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna reach out to ShipperPro for all of that, but also to find the best barbecue in all of Memphis. We' tip from the Ship Pro team too.

Kevin L. Jackson [01:13:15]:

You got right there.

Scott W. Luton [01:13:17]:

All right, Dr. David Beck, thanks so much for being here. Richard Donaldson. How can folks connect with you, my friend?

Richard Donaldson [01:13:24]:

Same as David. LinkedIn easiest place for me to find me. I'm sort of around other places as well, but that's definitely the most prominent one. Love to connect there. Love to connect with people all the time. And Just kind of go from that.

Scott W. Luton [01:13:37]:

Outstanding. Appreciate you being here, Richard Donaldson. Really enjoyed your perspective and I wish we had a couple more hours. A lot of good stuff here. Kevin L. Jackson. Kevin, this was probably one of my favorite. We've done a lot of shows together.

Scott W. Luton [01:13:48]:

This is certainly one of my favorites to go back and do some rankings, but I appreciate you introducing me and Richard to Dr. David Beck. We'll have to have more space supply chain conversations, but how can folks connect with the one and only Kevin L. Jackson?

Kevin L. Jackson [01:14:04]:

Well, you can always find me on Supply Chain now on the third Monday of every month with the Digital Transformers edition of the Buzz and my regular show Digital Transformers, as well as my new show Emerging Govtech. While look at all of the emerging technologies in the government space. But if you can't find me there, I'm on LinkedIn too.

Scott W. Luton [01:14:33]:

Show business is keeping you busy these days, Kevin L. Jackson, I don't know how you found time. No, I really appreciate what you're doing and looking forward to our next show already. Kevin L. Jackson, David, Kevin, Richard, thanks so much for being here. To all of our audience members out there. Hey, I ran out of my notes papers here today. That's right.

Richard Donaldson [01:14:53]:

Live long.

Kevin L. Jackson [01:14:54]:

Live long and prosper.

Scott W. Luton [01:14:55]:

Live long and prosper is what David is communicating. I ran out of my notes pages and I was, I was resorting to sticky notes to try to keep up with all the great stuff that all three of y'all was sharing. This is going to be this, what a great episode. But to our audience, you've got homework. Hopefully you've enjoyed this episode as much as I have. But you got to take one thing from David, Kevin, or Richard. I'm telling you, there's so much actionable perspective over the last hour, but there's also immense, immense opportunities. So, and for everyone out there.

Scott W. Luton [01:15:25]:

So take one thing, put it into practice, share it with your team, share it with your family, and you know, it's all about deeds, not words. That's how we're going to change life as we know it. But whatever, whatever you do, thanks for being here. And most importantly, on behalf of Supply Chain Now, Scott Luton Challenge you. Do good, give forward, Be the change that's needed. And we'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

Voiceover [01:15:49]:

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