Part 1 Final

[00:00:00] Hi there, and a very warm welcome to Season 5, Episode 28 of PeopleSoup. It's Ross McIntosh here.

[00:00:06] so my overthinking was. It, you know, ramped up to 11 I was having lots of sleepless nights. I was just stressed out.

[00:00:14] Exhausted. Couldn't write as well. I was like frozen. I couldn't, I was too perfectionist. I was the opposite of being like in the flow state, the zone. I was like, Oh my God, this has to be amazing. I can't do it. So I was constantly like commenting on what I was doing at the time. And then I knew it was partly to do with the fact that I wanted to leave, I definitely didn't want to climb the ladder any higher in an advertising agency.

[00:00:40] And I knew. That sort of always, I'd always, my head had been in it, but my heart really hadn't been in it. And I just, I don't know, I think it was just the time when I thought it's now or never really, I need to do something that's fully aligned with who I am as a person.

[00:00:56] And that's when I met you for the first time

[00:00:56] And that's when I met you for the first time. That's when I was thinking I need some kind of coach to help me through this transition. Your name came on my radar, being a Northern ACT person. Ha ha ha.

[00:01:08] Peasoopers, this week's treat for your ears is my chat with Andrew Sewell. he's a coach, an author, and a fellow Northerner. In this episode you'll hear how Andrew became fascinated by psychology and personal development, And how his career path has included teaching English as a foreign language, script writing in Hollywood, and stand up comedy, as well as honing a career in copywriting.

[00:01:31] He talks about leaving his career, and how he worked with me as his coach at that pivotal time. He's since retrained as a coach, written a book, and set up his company called Overthinkers Anonymous.

[00:01:44] PeopleSoup is an award winning podcast where we share evidence based behavioral science in a way that's practical, accessible, and fun, [00:02:00] to help you glow to work a bit more often.

[00:02:02] Let's just scoot over to the news desk, because I'm not sure if you've heard, I'll be running an Act in the Workplace Train the Trainer program in April and May next year, over four sessions, in partnership with Joe Oliver at Contextual Consulting. You'll find all the links in the show notes, and early bird rates are still available

[00:02:21] I'm excited to share the protocol I developed alongside Dr. Paul Flaxman at City, University of London and also my experience of delivering it to hundreds of workplace participants across all sectors.

[00:02:33] And reviews are in for our last episode, which was McKinnon about loneliness at work, and his Connect and Thrive campaign. Fabien Little on LinkedIn said, I recommend you listen for the weekend, or any day of the week for that matter, the latest episode of the Brilliant PeopleSoup podcast. Starting with an interesting perspective on careers in organizational psychology, then delving brilliantly into the too seldom talked about issue of loneliness at work.

[00:03:01] Great insights about leaders needing to role model meaningful connection with others. and for all not to confuse exposure to people with connection. Thanks to Fabian and to everyone who listened, shared, and rated my chat with Richard.

[00:03:14] Your support is what makes the PeopleSoup community so special. So please do keep listening and subscribing, sharing, and letting me know what you think. If you make some noise about the podcast and our guests, we'll reach more people with stuff that could be useful. And PeeSupers, here's one more piece of exciting news.

[00:03:31] We're doing pretty well at making that noise and reaching more people on ListenNotes. com, We're ranked as one of the top 2. 5 percent most popular shows out of over 3 million podcasts globally. So I'm pretty chuffed about that and thanks so much to you for all your support. Let's see if we can keep making that noise and get even higher.

[00:03:52] for now. Get a brew on and have a listen to my chat with Andrew Sewell. [00:04:00]

[00:04:01] Andrew Sewell, welcome to people soup.

[00:04:05] Great. Thank you, Ross. Thanks for having me on.

[00:04:07] It's great to have you here. We've known each other for a while, and you'll be familiar, Andrew, with my research department and how they do a bit of digging on you. So I'm going to share with you what they found and you can just reflect whether or not they've. They've captured everything or whether they've got it right.

[00:04:25] Okay.

[00:04:26] So it says here, Andrew is a highly experienced leadership, business and personal coach. He's also the author of a new book, The Overthinker's Guide to Life. Which we'll come back to in kind of the second half of our chat. This is all true. So far.

[00:04:42] excellent. Now, this wasn't always the case. Seven years ago.

[00:04:48] Andrew was a chronically stressed and overthinking advertising creative. He'd reached a senior role in his profession but he kind of felt his heart wasn't in it anymore. But he was overwhelmed with the thought that he just couldn't leave and felt really stuck. And along the way in his career he scratched and itched and completed an MSc in Psychology. And after much soul searching he found Sources of courage and scratch that itch further to change and that was the catalyst for lots of inner work and That's when you began to learn how to dial down your overthinking and get out of your own way And you discovered your unique gifts and how to express them Authentically so back to the present day Our Andrew is passionate about sharing what he's learned and he can show us how to overcome self sabotage and tap into our zone of genius He can help us move from survival to thriving mode in our work and in our life.

[00:05:49] How are we doing so far?

[00:05:51] Yeah. Good. Over zone of genius is a bit over. I can get when you read it out loud, but yeah, the rest of it's the rest of it's [00:06:00] true.

[00:06:01] I

[00:06:01] like it.

[00:06:02] yeah, okay.

[00:06:03] And they've picked up one other thing, my research department. They've recognized that you're always prepared to challenge yourself and take yourself out of your comfort zone and they've heard that you're in talks with Netflix.

[00:06:16] To do a comedy special, building on your previous experience in the world of stand up.

[00:06:23] There's a grain of truth to that, which you've highly embellished with the involvement of Netflix.

[00:06:29] Heh heh heh

[00:06:29] But yeah, I did stand up for a bit, but I didn't reach the level of live at the Apollo.

[00:06:34] Mate, I just thought, sometimes if you put stuff out there... Heh heh heh heh heh heh. You never know. It is, it is light hearted. But for me, it does illustrate how you're really prepared to step outside of your comfort zone.

[00:06:49] yeah, I think there are a few key times in my life where I have had that courage to do something like to just go for it and stand doing stand up comedy was absolutely diving off a cliff for me. It was the scariest thing I've ever done, but yeah, I'm totally proud of it.

[00:07:03] As, as you should be. now that's what my research department have gleaned. But I wonder if you could expand a bit more on that. Tell us a bit. About what's got you to where you are in your life today. And some of the pivotal moments along the way.

[00:07:18] Yeah. Okay. This will kind of tie into the reason why I wrote the book eventually. So obviously I'm from the north originally and from Hartlepool.

[00:07:28] Whee!

[00:07:31] the pivotal moment, the first pivotal moment occurred towards the end of my teenage years, where up until that point I'd been like a really, You know, grade A student. My mother's a teacher. They're all sort of bright. I was expected to do really well, and I ended up messing my A levels up, basically, because, for a number of reasons. And at that time, I started asking myself, you know, the big questions the teenagers ask themselves, like, what am I supposed to do with my [00:08:00] life? Oh, my God, this is a disaster. So I started reading. various psychology books and self help books. And I came across this thing called life and how to survive it by John Cleese, the comedian.

[00:08:12] And he wrote it with his therapist, his family therapist, who's called Robin Skinner. And that book was like, it was a conversation, the book was a conversation. And Robin was just explaining how, what makes like, some people more mentally healthy than others, and happier than others. And it talked about all kinds of things, family dynamics, and meaning, and the universe, and stuff.

[00:08:35] And I was like, oh my god, this is the best book ever. So that kind of got me into this full... Exploration of psychology. I think the other thing I was interested in was, I was interested in what make people tick. So I was interested in like writing and films and stories and sort of the more creative side of things.

[00:08:54] And I think those, those two interests, like the more psychological side and the sort of creative side those have been the driving force in my life really. As most people do, when I eventually went to university, I met like a really, a brilliant psychology lecturer called Steve Sayers, who, you know, went off the syllabus script and talked about super interesting stuff, and I was like, oh my god, I want to do that when I grow up, that's definitely what I want to be, I want to be some kind of like, psychology lecturer.

[00:09:19] And that didn't exactly pan out, but he was an inspiration, yeah, definitely. going back to sort of doing brave things, when I finished my degree, I was in that space again of not knowing what to do really. I didn't want to go down the sort of corporate career graduate path. I kind of had an inkling that I wanted to travel. I think this was an unbelievably lucky break.

[00:09:41] So I ended up doing teaching English as a foreign language. And then I got offered two jobs. I got offered one teaching job in Poland and one in Saudi Arabia. And obviously I had some moral qualms about Saudi Arabia, but I was skid and I needed to pay off my student loans. So I, so I ended up [00:10:00] doing this sort of private tuition in Saudi Arabia for like six months.

[00:10:04] And from there I got like a series of lucky breaks. And I ended up teaching, ended up moving from there to America and teaching overseas students in America. that was a hugely brave step for me to do, to go. I was in London at the time before I went to Saudi, but I was absolutely terrified before I saw them. The night before I got the flight to that place, I was like, oh my god, talking about culture shock. But yeah, it was okay and it panned out well. And, I mean, to cut a very long story short, while I was in America, I had lots of free time on my hands. I ended up seeing that Harvard University did screenwriting as a sort of optional class that more or less anyone could join.

[00:10:44] So I thought, oh, that taps into my creative... Vibes, let's do this. So I did screenwriting there for a couple of years and met some other people in the class and then a couple of years later we moved from where we were in Boston over to Los Angeles to be Hollywood screenwriters. Which was like the typical sort of crazy idea of a 24 year old.

[00:11:07] It was like, yeah, let's do this. It's

[00:11:08] like as if it was gonna be easy.

[00:11:11] Yeah. But I love it, I love it that you followed it through with action.

[00:11:15] you had the dream and then you did it. It might have been, some might consider it naive. But heck, man.

[00:11:21] It was also, it helped that I wouldn't have done it by myself, I had like three other people, we all moved at the same time. So, I got, I got jobs in sort of television, it's like entry level production assistant, researches on like, Channel 5 documentaries, like, you know, the search for Nazi gold and stuff like that.

[00:11:39] And at the same time I was writing these scripts at night that were going to be the sort of big sellers. I did write a couple of scripts, but none of them sold for a million dollars

[00:11:49] so after two years in. Los Angeles pursuing my Hollywood dream that kind of didn't go right and I ended up back in Hollywood green in north london [00:12:00] which is a slightly different environment to Hollywood los angeles and I was like mid 20s then and I was kind of almost Not back to square one, but I was a bit, I kept writing for a while.

[00:12:15] I wrote a sitcom that got shortlisted for some BBC award, but it didn't get like picked up. And then at that time I was like, Oh, I need to do something, you know, that's going to actually make me some money now. So I ended up fortunately. Getting a job in advertising as a copywriter. So that was kind of like, it was a compromise for me, but it was a way to get paid to do creative stuff.

[00:12:36] So at the time it was like, Oh my God, this is awesome. So yeah, that's where sort of the next. at least 15 years of my career was spent like moving up copywriter and then becoming a sort of, you know, head of copywriting, things like that. obviously there was some aspects of advertising that I wasn't into.

[00:12:53] I didn't like some of the clients we had to work for. I didn't really buy into the full premise of advertising, if I'm honest, but I liked, I liked doing the creative ideas.

[00:13:03] Poss intro

[00:13:03] And it was a really fun job on lots of levels. And it was, you work with sort of bright people and you got, I personally got lots of autonomy and, you know, I got praise for my ideas and things.

[00:13:14] So there was, there was a lot to like about it. But at the same time, I was always, there was always part of me that was trying to escape. So like I did stand, I did stand up comedy for a year. I toyed with the idea of being a psychotherapist. So I did my, I was in therapy for like a year, like old school Freudian therapy, like three times a week.

[00:13:33] So there was always part of me that was trying to get out basically, but I was also, also didn't really. Think it was possible because I was earning decent money and stuff.

[00:13:43] And Andrew, what was it like in. That creative space in advertising, because I know nothing about it. My, I'll tell you where my source of evidence comes from And it's from, it's not from Mad Men because I never watched that, but it was from, I don't know if you [00:14:00] remember a series called 30 something

[00:14:02] yeah. Yeah. I saw a bit of that. Yeah

[00:14:04] Because there was one of the guys I think who worked in an advertising agency, and it was all very sexy and groovy and People coming up with amazing ideas and it felt quite relaxed and, and just really such a space where they could really serve their clients. But I'm guessing as with all careers it probably wasn't that relaxed creative space all the time.

[00:14:29] No, I definitely not. I mean I was in a sector of advertising that was more to do with People so I was doing like recruitment campaigns for teachers and all kinds of different people prison officers So I was doing like a very defined sector of advertising. I wasn't doing like ads for Coca Cola and things like that.

[00:14:49] Partly because I didn't want to, and partly because just where I landed by luck, that was the sort of sector I was in. And on many levels that suited me because I liked the whole people aspect of it. It was like, okay, how do we engage people that this is a really worthwhile thing to do? How do we sort of bring some authenticity into the, into it?

[00:15:08] So it isn't just sort of waffle. And how do I creatively sort of bring this, what could be sometimes a really dry subject, like to life in an interesting way? So, From a sort of actual work perspective, that was great. So often in the early days, this has changed massively with the, obviously the creation of the internet, and it's put lots of pressure on advertising budgets and you get much less time to do the ideas, and it's a totally different thing now, now in 2023 than it was even when I was doing it in 27.

[00:15:39] I want something like that. So, yeah, sometimes it was awesome. I'd be just sitting with an, I was the writer, and so I'd be doing the words, and I'd be sitting with an art director, and we'd come up with ideas together. Pretty much like Mad Men, you'd be sitting in a room for, I don't know, eight hours, and then you could go to the pub and do it for a bit, and you'd just be doing some research, and riffing on [00:16:00] ideas.

[00:16:00] It was an amazing job from that perspective. But then, yeah. Obviously, when you become a manager, it gets harder. There's always, like every organization, there's always narcissists, and bullies, and crazy clients, and pressure, and you have to do too much too fast, and, you know, terrible communication, all of that stuff.

[00:16:20] And you were trying, you were trying various escape avenues at this time. So it was kind of like, I'm going to explore that. So you seem like a real explorer.

[00:16:30] Curiosity. Somebody said to me, a long time ago, yeah, but it sticks out in my mind, someone in advertising, one of the account directors said, I love you. You know what I love about you? You are just like, endlessly curious about stuff. And she's like, I wish everyone in my team had that. And yeah, absolutely.

[00:16:48] That's why, that was one of the reasons I really liked the job. Because I'd be doing totally, I'd like, one week I'd need to learn about the nuclear energy industry. And the next week I'd be doing something for, I don't know, Bernardo's charity. And then the next week, like, teachers. So you have to be like, really... up for learning things quickly and that totally played into one of my strengths here.

[00:17:08] And if you could go and talk to yourself at school, if, if the Andrew now could go and offer words of wisdom to the Andrew, who'd got his, just got his A level results. What, what would you say to him?

[00:17:20] Kind of what my book's about. Well, my daughter's 15 now. So it's kind of, that was sort of one of the reasons I wrote this book. It was partly a subversive attempt to give her some life advice. Not that she probably won't even read it. it's really difficult It'll be all right. That's what I would say, like at that time, there were certain times when I was fully stressed out and quite clueless about what to do with the future.

[00:17:46] Mm.

[00:17:46] And it's like, just trust the process. It's, I don't regret any of the things that I sort of did.

[00:17:52] It's like it all worked out really, I mean, I was,

[00:17:54] Poss intro

[00:17:54] I got some lucky breaks, but I also had the courage to put myself in the positions where those [00:18:00] things could occur. And I think that's probably quite a key piece of. Advice I would say to myself just trust those instincts and go for it when you feel that like urge to do something That's a bit crazy or out of the box or a bit out of your comfort zone.

[00:18:12] Just trust it Obviously, don't do anything that's going to jeopardize your physical well being, but like, trust it. Trust your instincts, I would say. Because even if you're wrong, you'll just, you'll just learn so much.

[00:18:25] Yeah. I love that. And I don't know, maybe I'm just, I haven't got many examples, but thinking about myself as someone doing, at the time I was doing O Levels and A levels, but my a a levels didn't pan out in the right, well in the way I expected. And you kind of think, oh God, the whole, the whole world is crashing down.

[00:18:46] I'm, I'm one of your target audience, let's be clear. So Andrew's company is called Overthinkers Anonymous. And I'm very much in that, that bracket still today. I have, I have many techniques and strategies to relate differently to my overthinking, including your book. But, um, yeah, I think we can get really hung up on, maybe it's a linear path I need to follow.

[00:19:11] And I sense that young people today are more open to having different stages to their career than people of my generation. I'm not sure.

[00:19:19] Yeah. So when I, in, you reminded me when I, I did my O level physics teacher. I can, it was literally a marathon runner and I remember I'd like, sort of, I don't know, didn't do some board work for a few weeks and he was like, if you don't, like, buckle down, you'll, you'll get behind in the race, like implying that this was a very linear track and, uh, GCSE all levels, A levels degree. Corporate career or doctor or lawyer or whatever, professional career, end of story until retirement, it's like, that's so not, it was, wasn't true then, but it's, it's, it's not even any kind of reality right now, that's for sure. But [00:20:00] yeah, it's so difficult because the education is so geared to that stage.

[00:20:04] Okay, we go from this school and then we go to the secondary school and then we go to this. in a level six form that you just ingrade with that step by step process. So you think, oh, that's how the rest of your life has to go. And obviously some people take that path and are absolutely happy, but it didn't work out that way for me.

[00:20:21] And I think there are definitely other ways to do it that can lead to good things.

[00:20:26] That's why it's great that you're so open in talking about this because, let's be clear, you reached a senior level in your copywriting job. so tell us more about the point where you were actually reaching that moment when you were actually. stepping away from that career. Tell us about kind of the build up to that and how, how that was.

[00:20:49] Yeah, let me just, say something because she said something interesting then. I wouldn't have got that job in copywriting if I hadn't been in America doing, doing that thing. when I got back to London, I was different from the competition. For, for anyone who've just done the standard path of I'll go to art school and then I'll go to like.

[00:21:08] Advertising school. My background was just different and it was like it stood me apart in the market for that entry level copywriting job. The person who interviewed me said, Oh, your background is so interesting. This is... you've obviously got something about you.

[00:21:23] See, that, that speaks to a quality of you, your, your character, your personality that you, you did these, what some might consider to be wild and risky things, but it's that that made you stand out in the jobs market.

[00:21:39] Definitely. Yeah. And that was me just being like me true to myself and it takes bravery to do it because especially if most of the people aren't doing that or doing something different, but yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:53] I'm just still thinking about you doing the Saudi Arabia, the America, whilst being an over thinker.[00:22:00]

[00:22:00] Yeah. I mean, yeah, good, point to bring this in. I mean, 100%, I've definitely always been a fairly anxious person, I would say. Also creative, I think creative and overthinking probably go hand in hand quite a lot. So I've always had the sort of, I'm a weird mix of being brave and scared at the same time.

[00:22:23] It's like, it is, it is a bit bizarre. So the fear obviously leads to a lot of overthinking. And I love, I'm a perfectionist, I'm a recovering perfectionist, I would say I'm quite a people pleaser, a recovering people pleaser. All of these things are, overthinking comes from all of those, sort of, patterns.

[00:22:42] Yeah, definitely.

[00:22:43] So can we go to that point where you're, you're leaving Havas, you're leaving your copywriting job. Tell me about what that was for my overthinking.

[00:22:54] Um, it was not great, I would describe it as. So that was, that was probably one of the most. Difficult parts,

[00:23:04] Leaving Havas

[00:23:04] I mean, in one way, you could say it was a classic midlife crisis, but I wouldn't really, it was a midlife transition, that's for sure. So I was 45 and I was, the people I was working with were absolutely awesome, like my boss was amazing, and the team I sort of managed were great, so there was absolutely nothing wrong with the people.

[00:23:24] It's just, on one level, the job, because I was doing lots of different things, like managing people, managing clients. And also trying to do ideas with a sort of, I was putting a lot of pressure on myself still to win, you know, the big awards. So I had to come up with all these amazing ideas and manage these people and deal with clients who were tricky and sort of, you know, all the politics of a workplace, that stuff.

[00:23:48] I think all of that, looking back, I didn't say this at the time, but like, you know, with seven years of reflective time, I think all of that just overwhelmed me to some extent.

[00:23:58] Overthinking ramped up to 11

[00:23:58] And so my overthinking [00:24:00] was. It, you know, ramped up to 11 I was having lots of sleepless nights. I was just stressed out.

[00:24:07] Exhausted. Couldn't write as well. I was like frozen. I couldn't, I was too perfectionist. I was the opposite of being like in the flow state, the zone. I was like, Oh my God, this has to be amazing. I can't do it. So I was constantly like commenting on what I was doing at the time. And then I knew it was partly to do with the fact that I wanted to leave, I definitely didn't want to climb the ladder any higher in an advertising agency.

[00:24:33] And I knew. That sort of always, I'd always, my head had been in it, but my heart really hadn't been in it. And I just, I don't know, I think it was just the time when I thought it's now or never really, I need to do something that's fully aligned with who I am as a person. Fortunately, I've got a partner, Alice, who was like amazingly supportive and she's got a decent job and stuff.

[00:24:54] So I didn't, I knew we'd be okay for money. So it was, that was like made a big difference. So yeah, eventually I. I did my noticing and leapt into the unknown. It wasn't really that much of a leap because I knew I could be a freelance copywriter, so I could always, I could, there was that like sort of in between stage where I could make money, but I knew it was something I was going to be moving out of.

[00:25:18] And that's when I met you for the first time

[00:25:18] And that's when I met you for the first time. That's when I was thinking I need some kind of coach to help me through this transition. And I just got interested in, um, act at the time. So. Your name came on my radar, being a Northern ACT person. Ha ha ha.

[00:25:34] Yeah, so how did you, how did you discover Act?

[00:25:38] Um, because I never stop reading psychology and personal development books. So, throughout that time, from when I read the first one, when I was about 18, to 45, Like I'd almost like that seeker vibe of like just compulsive reading of that kind of field. I'm interested in it, but there's also sort of a compulsion [00:26:00] to it, which I've got less of now, but at the time, looking back. So I'd kind of gone through all of the standard psychotherapies, and I'd done, I started, doing meditation. I've done things like yoga. I knew about CBT and things like that. And then this. Act thing came under my radar and it's sort of that I thought, 'cause I'd done had, I had ccbt myself with a therapist and it worked a bit, but I thought, oh, this is not really my, I sort of prefer sort of psychotherapy in a way where you just talk.

[00:26:31] I'm more of a gestalt, like psychotherapy if you're gonna be in that sort of space. But yeah, act, I thought, oh, that's good. That's like, that brings in like the mindfulness meditation with a bit of this sort of C B T stuff. And it was a different approach, and I thought that, that intersection could work for me.

[00:26:49] So that's, yeah, that's why I started. I read The Happiness Trap, that was the first book by Russ Harris, I think. So I was just doing, you know, popular psychology reading of act.

[00:26:59] Oh, and when you reached out to me as fellow Northerners and. Psychologists and those interested in act. What's your recollection of that? Our sessions together? Anything that stands out for you?

[00:27:11] We did them in City University. That's the location stands out because I was in a classroom and part of me was thinking, oh, this is good because I, my original dream was to be a psychology lecturer and now I'm at a university talking about it. That's cool. So the location worked. I think at the time I was so relieved because I'd sort of knew I was leaving and I was so up for embracing. whatever was next and your vibe was great. You were really calm and sort of like, sort of shared many of the same qualities as I do, I think. So it was like, I like this person, he's going to give me the space to explore. so it was just, I just found it every session. Brilliant. Essentially.

[00:27:50] I came, I can remember I was right. I was commuting into London by bike and I rode over my bike and I was like, Oh, that was awesome. That was good. So I really enjoyed it.

[00:27:58] yeah, [00:28:00] I remember being just blown away, astounded by your, it was kind of a two sided coin. We often talk about that in act, but I was astounded by your Your creative energy and your kind of restlessness to keep exploring is what really stands out for me. And on the other side of that, your doubt. I just felt immense amount of doubt.

[00:28:26] And what I saw as my role is to hold up a mirror so you could see what I could see in you.

[00:28:32] Yeah, that's a good point. That's a very, very good point. I think that doubt is there to a bit, but it's over the last seven years has definitely been a journey of me being. More grounded in who I am and and as I've got deeper into the sort of my own work as a coach on Leadership development and it feels like I'm in such a sort of space where I can bring in my creativity But also my psychology and I'm I'm a good presenter.

[00:29:03] I was always a back in the day I was a terrible presenter, but I went on one of those journeys where I went from really anxious, doing stand up comedy helped me become a more confident presenter. So I'd kind of like, got the skills in place, but absolutely, yeah. Even when, even when I wrote the first draft of this book and gave it to some people to review, they were like, you've been, you've been too, you're not being confident enough there.

[00:29:26] There's certain bits where you'd sort of, there's an element of like, you're, what's the word? Like, um. You're putting barriers around like your free expression and you're sort of apologizing to yourself a little bit still So you just need to make it just full on This is you but doubt is a great way to describe it I was definitely doubtful when I was talking to you because I was in a whole view.

[00:29:46] Oh my god What am I going to do with my future?

[00:29:49] Yeah. Yeah. It, it felt like, you know, that expression hiding your light under a bushel. It felt like your, your light wasn't shining bright because, because of that [00:30:00] doubt. And it feels like now, hell man, it's, it's amazing.

[00:30:05] Yeah, that's, that's perfectly said. I, so throughout, so the last, I left advertising met you seven years ago. It's now the books come out literally next week. So there's a seven year gap I've trained to be a coach. So I did that full coach training. It was a postgraduate level.

[00:30:22] So it was quite an in depth thing. I've met lots of other coaches. I've worked with quite a few of the coaches explored different methods. And, um, That light shining metaphor has reoccurred like this is about me showing up and yet not hiding Like showing up in my shining that full light, I guess if you want to say

[00:30:43] Hmm. And thank you for doing this because I think it's a topic that's so important. I love, I, I, You know how you can follow someone and you maybe don't chat to them for a while, a few years, but I love seeing your evolution on platforms like LinkedIn, but I'm loving where you've got to with Overthinkers Anonymous because it just makes me go hallelujah.

[00:31:06] Someone's speaking the truth about how it can be.

[00:31:11] Yeah, and also don't get me wrong I'm still scared it's still emotions don't simply disappear I'm still feeling emotions, but it's counterforce of Just sort of blows that away a bit. It's, it feels like, as I sort of said at the start, it's about a process that's unfolding. And just now is the, it's unfolding in the right way for me. Now, in the sense that it's finally becoming lighter, as in psychologically lighter, I have less on my mind. So I'm just more in the zone.

[00:31:38] And then when you just speak from that place, it just, as I'm doing now, it just connects, connects more.

[00:31:44] oh, that's such, that's such a beautiful thing to hear and, and it shows, it shows in the book, it shows in, in what you're posting. And also you're prepared to be vulnerable on, on social media in your posts. And I think that's so important for have you [00:32:00] as a role model for us.

[00:32:01] Yeah, that's tricky, the vulnerability question. I definitely am. vulnerable, but there's a fine line between being overly vulnerable and not vulnerable enough. I mean, every person has to decide that for themselves, but I'm hopefully, I feel like I'm being true to myself in sharing enough sort of what's truly going on for, that I want to share.

[00:32:24] Yeah, absolutely

[00:32:25]

[00:32:25] Song Choice

[00:32:25] Okay, so, Andrew, I've got a question I ask all my guests, and it's about a song choice. And this would be a song choice that would announce your arrival in a room, whether it's you at home, whether it's you going to the supermarket, or you entering a virtual room.

[00:32:39] And it would announce your arrival for the next, say, two or three months. It's not forever. But what would your song choice be?

[00:32:46] Um, I struggled with this because I'm, I'm into music. The only thing I could think of, and this is not really a song choice because it's more than a song choice, but it's so key to how I came to write this book that I couldn't mention anything else. In January, when I randomly had the idea to write this book, the first idea was to write a hundred page book in a hundred days.

[00:33:12] That was sort of something. And I was looking for a structure. And in the pandemic I'd done the couch to 5k and I thought, Oh, that's a cool structure. I'll do like a couch to 5k for, for overthinkers. So, and then when I was doing my sort of, Lunchtime, walk, run, jog, whatever, getting outside. I was thinking about, like, my early days.

[00:33:37] And it, when I was a student, I was into the Beatles and I listened to Abbey Road loads when I was at university and Side 2 of Abbey Road is like, basically one long song that's like loads of vignettes stitched together and it ends like with the, I mean, it's obviously the most iconic. piece of music ever.

[00:33:57] Like, and I was, so I thought [00:34:00] I'm going to use, I'm going to try and weave that like stitching vignettes vibe into this couch to 5k structure and create my own version of that. So that, so it has to be side two of Abbey Road is my song choice, which is about 20 minutes long. So yeah, it's going to be a bit long for an introduction.

[00:34:20] Brilliant. That's, that's a first for, for People Soup having a, a whole side of an LP,

[00:34:27] This is an old school album.

[00:34:30] Perfect. Thank you.

[00:34:33] Pea soup, as that said, part one of my chat with Andrew in the bag. It's always great to chat with Andrew. I love his creativity and courage. A big thanks to my producer Emma. We've got loads more ideas in the pipeline, so keep those ears peeled. If you like this episode or the podcast, please could you do three things? Number one, share it with one other person. Number two, subscribe and give us a five star review, whatever platform you're on.

[00:35:05] Number three, share the heck out of it on the socials. This would all help us reach more people and make some noise with stuff that could be useful. We'd love to hear from you and you can get in touch at peoplesoup. pod at gmail. com. On X, formerly known as Twitter, we are at peoplesouppod. on the gram, known as insta, We are at People. Soup and on Facebook we are at PeopleSoupPod. You can also drop us a review or get in touch using a voice note on WhatsApp.

[00:35:33] Thanks to Andy Glenn for his spoon magic and Alex Engelberg for his vocals. Most of all, dear listener, thanks to you. Look after yourselves, peace supers, and bye for now. But that was a super exciting... Refreshing Friday experience, to see, to just go into a bit of depth on it and see you glowing, man.

[00:35:57] Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I, I [00:36:00] really appreciate that because you, you are someone who's seen me on the other side. So it's, it's, it comes from a true place. So yeah, thank you.