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Hello listeners, welcome to the Social Skills Coaching Podcast on Wednesday, April 24,

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2024, where you become more likeable, more charismatic, and more productive.

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Today we're diving into the world of Conversation Mastery, with a chapter from Patrick King's

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book, Conversation Skills Training.

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Patrick is a communication expert who helps people, just like you, improve their social

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skills and build stronger relationships.

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You can find more about Patrick and his consulting services at bit.ly-slash-pk-consulting.

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We'll be uncovering the secrets to keeping conversations flowing and engaging, all while

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making a lasting positive impression.

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So, whether you're looking to conquer networking events, feel more comfortable at parties,

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or simply have more fulfilling conversations with friends and family, this episode is for

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you.

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Are you ready to become a conversational charmer?

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Well, let's get started.

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The rules for communication are pretty basic.

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Talk with people and not to them.

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Be present.

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Listen.

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Easy, huh?

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Yet, somehow, almost all of us could stand to be better conversationalists.

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The irony is that nobody ever wakes up in the morning and says to themselves,

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Today I'm going to be a complete bore to talk to.

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Nobody wants to be that person who constantly one ups everyone else, interrupts, or talks

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too much.

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Here's a rule for good communication that you might not have considered.

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Having charm and charisma is not about you, it's about the other person.

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So many of us embark on a mission to be more interesting and likable in conversation, but

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just by having this attitude, we sabotage ourselves.

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Why?

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Because we have it backward.

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Being a great communicator is not about having other people listen to you like you or compliment

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you, it's about you making other people feel heard, liked, and praised.

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The irony is that when we try too hard to be witty and impressive, our focus narrows

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down to our egos, and we instantly become the opposite of what we're hoping to be.

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The other person disappears, and we are engaging in what is, for all intents and purposes,

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a boring monologue.

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Director, consultant, author, and coach Dr. Carl Albrecht explained in Psychology Today

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that every conversation is made up of three key elements, one, declaratives, two, questions,

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three, qualifiers.

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Declaratives are simply statements of fact.

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For example, the sky is blue.

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However, to make things more complicated, they aren't always exactly facts, but opinions

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that are presented as though they are facts.

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Light blue is too weak a color to wear to that job interview.

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Questions are self-explanatory, although this doesn't include rhetorical questions that

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take the grammatical form of a question, but are not literally asking the other person to

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respond.

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For example, what is it with this weather today?

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What's your favorite color?

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What should I wear to the interview?

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Finally, qualifiers are something we've encountered already and include any words or phrases intended

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to soften or moderate what is being said.

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For example, in my opinion, I'm wondering if I could be wrong, but as far as I know,

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I'm not speaking for everyone here, but qualifiers are also great at helping you express uncertainty

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or make a claim, but not too strongly.

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So instead of saying that light blue is a weak color, you could say it might be a slightly

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weak color.

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Instead of saying Freud was a pervert, you say, in my opinion, it may be the case that

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Freud in fact had a distorted sexuality.

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Now Albrecht suggested what he calls the rule of three.

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Simply, in a conversation, make sure that you are never making three declarative statements

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in a row.

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Instead, include plenty of questions or qualifiers, i.e., softer and more moderate declaratives,

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to give your speech a little more flexibility.

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Crucially, doing so will make sure that the conversation doesn't become bogged down in

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ego and narcissism.

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A question is a way to bat the conversational ball over the net and to the other person

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who is then invited to say what they want to before batting the ball back again.

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A modifier is halfway between a question and a declarative statement.

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You say what you want to say, but you leave a little room in there for someone else to

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add what they want to.

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There's nothing wrong with a declarative per se, but it is the sort of thing that closes

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off any avenues for connection.

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Beyond bland agreement or outright disagreement, that is, both of which do not actually further

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the conversation.

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Try it, and you may be surprised at just how much more your conversations flow, and you'll

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come across as more likeable too.

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Understanding the rule of three means you won't soon run out of things to say in any conversation.

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You can basically never go wrong if you, A, ask a question, or, B, say whatever declarative

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statement you were just about to say, but soften it with a qualifier.

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Consider the following conversation.

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I got this really bad shoulder pain.

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The physiotherapist says it's bursitis.

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Wow, bursitis.

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My grandmother had that last year.

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It's more common than you think, you know.

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Yeah, well, it's the first I've heard of it.

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Apparently it was most likely caused by the COVID vaccine.

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Well, you have to consider all the possible cases.

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There are lots of things that could be to blame.

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It's actually repetitive strain that causes most cases of bursitis.

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Sure, yeah.

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Anyway, my physiotherapist says it's an injury that can happen when the needle is placed

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slightly in the wrong place.

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A lot of those people giving vaccines didn't get the right training.

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Well, let me tell you, it hurts like hell.

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I'm sure.

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The best thing would be to have plenty of rest, I guess.

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Now, take a look at the above conversation and ask yourself how much you like person

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b.

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They're not being a conversational narcissist in the sense that it's all me, me, me.

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But somehow their ego seems to loom large in the exchange above.

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Why?

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You'll notice that everything that person b says is a declarative statement.

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It gives the conversation a flat, dead feeling.

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After a declarative, there's not much to do except agree, disagree, or stop talking.

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In the extreme, too many declaratives like this can actually make the person seem as

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though they are lecturing, preaching, or explaining, i.e. it can feel very dull and

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even condescending.

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Let's look at a different conversation.

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I've got this really bad shoulder pain.

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The physiotherapist says it's bursitis.

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Wow, bursitis.

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My grandmother had that last year.

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It's more common than you think, you know.

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Yeah, well, it's the first I've heard of it.

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Apparently it was most likely caused by the COVID vaccine.

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Really?

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Well, that's interesting.

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You mean you had a bad reaction to something that was in the vaccine?

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Actually, no.

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My physiotherapist says it's an injury that can happen when the needle is placed just slightly

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in the wrong place.

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Ouch.

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Well, I may be wrong about this, but I seem to remember reading an article last year about

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how many volunteers had emergency training to learn to give the vaccine.

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Maybe the person who jabbed you just wasn't all that experienced?

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Yeah, exactly.

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That's what I think, too.

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It's annoying because it really hurts.

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I can imagine.

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What do you think you'll do now?

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Have you got something relaxing planned for the weekend?

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First, just ask yourself which person you feel is more likeable.

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The two conversations are very, very similar.

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Both are perfectly acceptable.

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And there's no offense caused or any major rupture in social etiquette in either one.

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And yet, even in this short interaction, you can probably see the big difference the rule

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of three makes and how a person using declaratives 100% comes across so differently from someone

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using a mix of all three conversational types.

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Person B likely doesn't believe themselves to be bad at conversation, but they nevertheless

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will be perceived as less friendly, less likable, and somehow less enjoyable to speak to.

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The effect of such interactions gradually and imperceptibly adds up.

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Others may not be able to put their finger on why, but they may feel that person B is

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a bit boring, stuck up, rude, or a know-it-all.

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Crucially, it's not about the content of what you say.

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It's about the emotional implications and the energy in how you say it.

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Questions convey a sense of openness, possibility, humility, and receptivity.

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They can be playful and respectful, and can demonstrate empathy and compassion, as well

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as the covert message, I like you, I'm interested, tell me more.

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Qualified statements send a similar message.

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They say something, but it's a soft something.

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They signal to the other person that you are amenable, flexible, and ready to discuss and

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move with the flow.

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Declaratives, however, are a little like dead ends.

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They are pronouncements made that usually signal the end of conversation, rather than

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its beginning.

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They position you as a speaker with authority, and the other person as someone who is there

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primarily to hear this authority.

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Though there is absolutely a time and place for this energy, giving speeches, setting boundaries,

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or literally teaching someone.

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Too much of it means you're talking at, rather than talking with.

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In other words, questions and qualifiers open up a little room that invites the other person

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into the conversation.

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Declaratives tend to focus only on you and your message, while closing out the other person.

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Light blue is such a weak color.

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Is it?

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Says who?

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Literally imagine someone said this to you.

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Can you feel how difficult it is to say anything in response?

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Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I've never really liked light blue.

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Can you see how it's possible to have a strong opinion, but nevertheless frame it as exactly

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that, an opinion, and leave plenty of space for someone to respond and keep the conversation

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going?

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What's your favorite color?

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A question immediately opens up the conversation and signals that you are willing and able

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to share airtime, to listen, and to connect.

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It's a signal that you are putting your ego aside and making space for connection.

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Even though it's subtle, it conveys feelings of appreciation and generosity that are worth

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their weight in gold.

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By the way, it's worth noting that you don't have to become passive and unopinionated to

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be more likeable.

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In fact, occasionally saying something obviously outrageous is a great way to inject a little

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playfulness into a conversation and get things flowing.

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But note that these declaratives are, in a way, acting like questions or qualifiers,

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since they can't help but draw the other person in.

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Oh, I simply cannot wear light blue.

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It makes my eyeballs itchy just looking at it.

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Man, I hate light blue.

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They should make convicts wear it in prison as punishment.

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If the rule of three feels tricky to implement at first, don't worry, it can take time to

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break bad habits.

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One easy trick is to literally say whatever you are going to but add, don't you think,

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to the end of it.

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Light blue is such a weak color, don't you think?

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It immediately changes the entire energy and flow of the conversation and takes little

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to no effort on your part.

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Another trick to try is to simply convert any statement into a slightly softened question,

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instead of saying, that blue looks weird.

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Say, do you think the blue looks a little off?

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If you're the kind of person who likes to get on a soapbox and bombard people with your

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strongly held opinions, try to ask yourself why?

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Being dogmatic and lecturing people and forcefully pushing your opinions on them is not communication,

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but a roadblock to communication.

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People can veer toward declarative statements that our opinions dressed up as facts for

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a few reasons.

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We unconsciously think that the purpose of a conversation is to have our needs met and

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to be heard and seen by someone else.

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We may hold a core belief that we have to broadcast, defend, or force our perspectives

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and opinions, usually because they have not been appreciated or respected in the past.

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We are anxious and trying to win validation or appear smart and interesting.

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The irony is that using the rule of three is something you do for other people, but it's

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ultimately something that benefits you.

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Friends that are more balanced just flow better and lead to more comfort, trust, enjoyment,

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and attraction than others where one or both parties are talking forcefully at the other,

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who is simply trying to endure it, or waiting for their own turn on the soapbox.

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You'll notice as well that this trick works seamlessly with all the other advice we've

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covered so far.

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The rule of three helps you build rapport, removes barriers to connection, and helps

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you maintain a communication style that is relaxed and appealing.

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Sustain conversations with conversational threading and useful acronyms.

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Using the rule of three is all very well and good, but many people may find that this isn't

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quite enough.

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In casual conversation with new acquaintances, it can be really awkward.

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How do you know what to say?

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After the initial greetings and the how-are-us are done, then what?

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Some people are masters at starting conversations, but this energy fizzles out quickly and they

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find that they cannot deepen the connection to the next level.

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Perhaps you know somebody who's like this.

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They are perfectly friendly and amiable.

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You like them and enjoy their company, but somehow you never quite get past the small

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talk and into anything juicier.

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There can be a few reasons for this, but the solution is easy.

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Think of a relationship with someone as a piece of fabric.

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In the beginning, you literally just have a single thread with them.

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Your job is to spin that thread up and keep it strong, preventing it from snapping or

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getting knotted.

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If you talk to them again, you get the opportunity to create another thread.

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However, the fabric of your connection with them will be stronger if you can actually

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link up this new thread with the old one.

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Weave them together.

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Otherwise, you risk spinning up that same thread over and over again from scratch and

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you never weave a larger two-dimensional piece of fabric at all.

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Relationships take time.

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They're built out of all these conversational threads, thin as each one is on its own.

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The more there are, and the more connected they are, the more you will feel that your

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sense of rapport with the other person is deepening.

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Human beings are actually quite simple in this regard.

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They learn to trust and like what is repeated, predictable, and pleasant.

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Plus, they make meaning from connections.

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Unless your interaction with them connects to something, it will be quickly forgotten.

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It starts in the early stages with just keeping that thread spinning.

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Using the technique of conversational threading, you will never run out of things to say.

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The idea is simple.

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One, the other person speaks and you listen.

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Two, you notice a few threads that they start.

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Three, as the conversation unfolds, you pick up a thread and talk about it.

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Four, when you run out of things to say, you go back and find an old thread and follow that instead.

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Five, voila!

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Your conversation is running smoothly and comfortably.

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Let's take a closer look.

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A thread is what it sounds like, a word, phrase, image, or idea that is shared by the other person.

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It can be literally anything.

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For example, if the other person says, since both of my brother's kids got diagnosed with ADHD,

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we're all trying to cut down on screen time.

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There are quite a few threads in this statement, at least four.

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There's the brother, the brother's kids.

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The fact of having less screen time and the idea about ADHD diagnoses.

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As you listen, hear these threads and pick them up.

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For example, oh, is that your brother you said lived abroad?

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How old are your brother's kids?

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Yup, I can relate.

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I've been trying to manage my own internet addiction these days.

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Wow.

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ADHD in both kids.

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I wonder how common that is.

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As you can see, you can pick up a thread and ask a question about it, or just react and

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make a comment, but as you can imagine, each of these threads leads somewhere else.

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One will result in a long and impassioned conversation about the perils of TV on developing

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brains, while some others might fizzle out after a few short responses.

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For example, yeah, he's my older brother.

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He's currently living in Belgium with his family.

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Should you happen to talk a little more about Belgium or living abroad and find that avenue

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eventually runs dry, you don't need to worry, you can backtrack, drop the brother-Belgium

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thread and pick up somewhere else.

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Of course, to do this effectively, you need to really pay attention and remember what

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you're told, store those little threads for later.

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So anyway, was there ADHD diagnosis done there in Belgium?

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Two things have happened now.

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You have communicated to the other person that you were listening and paying attention,

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but you've also gently pivoted away from a dying topic and into one that might be more

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fruitful and interesting.

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Rather than it feeling like you're flitting from one shallow talking point to the next,

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though, it will seem as though the conversation is naturally developing and deepening.

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One way to make sure this is happening is with, surprise, surprise, questions, but questions

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that probe a little deeper each time.

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So your first question might be about the plain facts and details of who lives where

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and how old they are.

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The next time you pick up this thread, though, you can ask about how people felt about these

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details.

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What do they want to do next?

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Why?

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What does all this suggest about their values, their sense of meaning and purpose?

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Note that you can do all this without it feeling like you're grilling them or hunting out juicy

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gossip.

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Start by sharing a little something of yourself to set the tone.

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For example, you know, looking back, I've wondered if maybe I had ADHD as a kid.

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On the other hand, I'm not sure whether being diagnosed back then would have changed who

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I am today, you know?

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The thread continues, but it's deepening and gathering meaning as it goes.

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You could do this with every one of the four threads above, even returning to certain ideas

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days or weeks later.

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You're weaving that fabric.

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Without them even realizing it, the other person may start to find you trustworthy and

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relatable, all while feeling that they are talking about themselves.

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In real life, skilled conversationalists tend to practice conversation threading without

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even knowing it.

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But if you're the sort of person who gets anxious about being on the spot with nothing

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to say, conversation threading may be just the thing to come to your rescue.

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Here are a few ideas to make it even more effective.

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As you listen, prick your ears for words that suggest a strong emotional component for the

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speaker.

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Pull out particularly vivid images or unusual turns of phrase, or notice when the speaker

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gets a little more animated, and zoom in on that topic.

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It's likely going to be the most interesting thread to pursue.

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Note, it's a bad idea, however, to pull on a thread where the emotion is obvious avoidance

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and discomfort.

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It's a quick way to be perceived as nosy or a bully.

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When asking questions, keep them as open-ended as possible.

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So you have a brother, might literally be something to fill the silence, but it can

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only be answered with, yep, which then promptly leaves you just where you started.

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Don't put the other person in the position of having to think of things to say.

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As you listen for threads, don't be in too much of a hurry to pounce on them or forcefully

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steer the conversation, just relax, be patient, and hold on to them.

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Even better if you can remember them for long after the current conversation is over.

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You will come across as attentive and aware and will win major conversational brownie

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points.

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Hey, I had a new client from Belgium yesterday, and he reminded me about your brother.

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How's he doing, by the way?

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People who find conversations difficult are usually no less interesting, intelligent,

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or kind than people find this kind of socializing easier.

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The only difference is that they are unaware of the practical skills required to have a

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great conversation, or else they know what to do but are out of practice.

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At first, using the techniques and tricks outlined in this book will feel a little awkward

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and uncomfortable, but over time and with practice, you will internalize a deeper mindset

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shift, and these behaviors will start to be second nature to you.

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Keep relaxed, keep listening, and keep the focus on the other person, and you can't go

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too far wrong.

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The bigger mindset shift that will come about by using conversational threading is one of

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non-resistance.

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This means that when people introduce a thread, you listen, you are open and receptive, and

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you remember.

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You never forcefully cling to one thread over another, but stay relaxed and spontaneous

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in the moment, waiting to see what interesting things bubble up and following them.

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This is the kind of thing you need to experience rather than read about, though, so it's best

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to try these techniques for yourself.

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In particular, notice when you have a fixed idea of what you want to say or where you

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want the conversation to go.

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Notice if you're being resistant or forceful when it looks like the conversation is going

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elsewhere, then choose to let it go.

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If you quietly rehearse things in your head, or keep forcefully bringing the conversation

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back to the point you want to make, the conversation will sputter out or die.

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This is why we need to be brave enough to enter into conversations without being too

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prepared.

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If we have too fixed an idea of how things should go, we're not really listening for

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opportunities for it to be something better.

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Alright listeners, that wraps up our exploration from Conversation Skills Training by Patrick

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King.

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Remember, the key to having great conversations is to focus on the other person.

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Make them feel heard, valued, and supported.

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By using the techniques we discussed today, you'll be well on your way to becoming a

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social butterfly.

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For more tips and tricks on social skills and personal development, head over to our

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author's website at bit.ly-slash-pk-insulting or subscribe wherever you listen.

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Thanks for joining us today, we'll see you on the next episode of Social Skills Coaching.