00:04

Thank you for joining us for

00:05

the Future of Higher Education Today.

00:07

The podcast bringing people together

00:09

to talk about the biggest issues

00:11

facing universities and higher education.

00:13

A series produced by Universities UK

00:16

and Advance HE.

00:17

My name is Aaron Porter,

00:19

Associate Director (Governance) at Advance HE

00:21

and I'm hosting this four-episode series

00:23

with a focus on governing

00:25

and leading change and transformation

00:27

in the higher education sector.

00:29

Today's episode looks at the drivers

00:32

for strategic reviews

00:33

in UK further and higher education institutions.

00:36

As well as some indicators

00:38

of successful change programmes.

00:40

Joining me today for our session

00:43

is Professor Sir Steve West,

00:45

Vice-Chancellor and President

00:46

of the University of the West of England.

00:48

To be authentic

00:49

you have to be able to admit

00:50

when it's not quite working

00:53

and build the team

00:55

with determination that

00:57

is going to make sure

00:58

that you don't repeat those mistakes,

01:00

or you try and avoid them

01:01

as best you can.

01:02

Debra Gray,

01:03

Principal and CEO of Hull College.

01:06

And Trusha Lakhani,

01:07

CEO of Great Business Matters.

01:10

A review of the business model

01:12

wasn't just how do we save money,

01:13

how do we become more efficient,

01:14

how do I bank cash

01:16

to invest for staff and students?

01:18

It was also how do we position

01:19

the college as a leader in its field?

01:21

You've actually got to plan three

01:23

or four years ahead.

01:25

So, it's having the conversations

01:27

with employers for skills

01:30

and the courses

01:32

that those skills require.

01:33

I'm going to kick off

01:34

with our opening question.

01:36

And I just wondered

01:37

if they could share some thoughts on

01:39

what the circumstances are

01:41

that have led them to embark

01:43

on a strategic review of their business model

01:46

in their respective institutions?

01:48

And how that went about.

01:50

So we'll start with you, Steve.

01:52

Thanks Aaron. Great to be here.

01:54

I guess the starting place for me

01:55

was if we continued

01:57

doing what we were doing,

01:58

we would quickly hit a brick wall

02:01

in that our model, predated on,

02:05

I guess, a similar model

02:06

that we were using over the last ten,

02:08

fifteen years was running out of steam.

02:11

And that really was the focus.

02:13

We had a number of shocks around

02:16

inflation uplift not being available to us.

02:19

The international students

02:21

and reducing numbers.

02:25

But also increasing costs

02:27

within a university and complexity

02:30

within the things that we were doing,

02:32

which was becoming unmanageable.

02:34

And really those things came together

02:36

and we took the opportunity

02:38

just to reflect on our 2030 strategy

02:42

and asked ourselves

02:45

Are we on track?

02:47

Are we likely to deliver this strategy,

02:50

or do we need to change

02:52

some of what we were doing

02:54

in light of the circumstances

02:56

that we found ourselves in?

02:58

That's a really helpful

02:59

sort of scene setter for us.

03:00

And as you say, we'll unpack

03:01

some of that detail in just a second.

03:04

Thanks, Steve.

03:05

Debra, I wonder the circumstances

03:07

for you at Hull College

03:09

and more generally across

03:10

the college sector.

03:12

It's a really interesting question.

03:15

And Hull College

03:17

is certainly a case study of why

03:20

looking long term

03:22

strategically at your business

03:23

model pays off.

03:25

The real simple answer is

03:27

we were in financial distress

03:28

and we had been subject to government intervention.

03:33

The role of the FE commissioner

03:35

and our funding bodies.

03:37

And that brings with it

03:40

a whole range of challenges

03:41

and becoming principal of a college

03:44

that's already in financial distress,

03:46

you have

03:48

a very limited number of levers at

03:50

your disposal.

03:52

But essentially,

03:53

we had found ourselves in this position

03:57

for reasons that, in theory

03:59

at least, could have been predicted

04:01

or protected against.

04:02

And I think it's very similar

04:04

to some of what we're seeing,

04:05

certainly in the

04:06

HE sector with our colleagues in HEIs.

04:09

So, we'd seen kind of overoptimistic

04:11

recruitment targets,

04:12

which meant that

04:13

potentially from September

04:15

you were already in deficit

04:16

unless your budget was absolutely spot on.

04:19

We'd probably missed opportunities

04:20

for digital transformation

04:22

and hadn't really controlled

04:24

resource management

04:26

as well as we should have done,

04:27

particularly staffing.

04:29

And I think we hadn't had the foresight

04:32

to adapt to those financial realities.

04:35

And that for us meant,

04:38

you know, we'd got declines in student numbers.

04:40

We'd got very significant

04:41

upswings in operational costs.

04:44

Utilities alone were incredibly high.

04:48

And

04:50

when I think

04:51

about those things,

04:54

that's all on the downside.

04:56

That's what triggers.

04:57

But also what's a real trigger is

04:59

how do we lead.

05:01

So the college had suffered

05:03

from this distress.

05:05

And as a result

05:05

they hadn’t led from the sector basis on anything.

05:08

So, a review of the business

05:10

model wasn't just how do we save money,

05:12

how do we become more efficient,

05:13

how do I bank cash

05:14

to invest for staff and students?

05:16

It was also

05:17

how do we position

05:17

the college as a leader in its field?

05:20

How do we take our rightful place

05:22

on the national and international stage

05:24

in AI, in digital transformation,

05:28

in student mobility,

05:30

all the things that we're really,

05:31

really good at.

05:32

So it was two pronged.

05:34

It was to control costs

05:36

to bank cash for investment

05:39

and also to place the college

05:41

really at the forefront

05:43

of what it did very well.

05:45

Trusha, if I might turn to you

05:46

and I know that you've worked

05:48

with a number of organisations,

05:49

sometimes in interim ways.

05:52

So, you might be thinking

05:53

about a number of institutions

05:54

as you offer some reflections.

05:56

But I wonder if there are any kind of

05:57

general principles

05:59

which have been have applied

06:01

successfully when you've worked with institutions

06:03

thinking about strategic reviews

06:05

of their business model.

06:06

Educational organisations are facing

06:10

financial pressures.

06:11

You know, sometimes it's

06:13

in declining enrolments.

06:16

Sometimes and

06:17

quite often, you know, it's the funding

06:20

hasn't quite reached the inflationary levels.

06:26

And there is increased competition

06:30

between institutions as well.

06:32

So, everyone's marketing

06:34

for the same level.

06:35

So, that adds to financial pressures,

06:38

whether people see it or not.

06:39

Now, when you've got financial pressures

06:41

to invest in technologies

06:43

is quite hard because you're

06:45

looking at the day to day

06:46

running rather than the growth.

06:48

So, the technological pressures

06:50

and everyone knows

06:51

that applying good technology

06:54

reduces the cost.

06:55

But before you do that,

06:56

you've actually got to spend money

06:57

in putting these things in.

06:59

So, it's ensuring

07:03

that educational institutions have the ability

07:07

or the funding to

07:09

to get the right technologies in place

07:12

for themselves.

07:13

Part of it operationally

07:15

to help them run the organisation.

07:17

And the other bit it's to help them

07:21

teach differently

07:22

to educate people differently because

07:27

organisations, especially

07:29

any educational organisation,

07:32

is multi-layered.

07:33

So, you've got to apply it

07:35

in different layers.

07:36

Employer expectations change and it's

07:39

keeping in line with them.

07:41

So, it's planning the courses.

07:43

So, you've actually got to plan three

07:45

or four years ahead.

07:47

So, it's having the conversations

07:49

with employers for skills

07:52

and the courses

07:54

that those skills require.

07:56

And it's also

07:59

linking up with the right businesses

08:01

and stakeholders as well.

08:03

So, you understand the demands

08:05

that the market is putting across

08:08

on the educational institutions.

08:11

I'm going to move the conversation

08:13

on to a related point,

08:14

but, around sort of the milestones

08:18

of success.

08:19

I think we've set out

08:21

clear reasons to make the change.

08:24

But then I wonder, were there particular performance

08:27

indicators or milestone or measures that you’ve –

08:30

that you would point to

08:31

along the way that you felt right,

08:34

we have perhaps

08:35

delivered this particular change

08:36

or made this amount of saving?

08:39

So, I go back to the strategy

08:41

and having a very clear

08:44

long term vision about

08:45

what you want to be.

08:46

If you haven't got that, then in effect,

08:49

you're just—if you're chasing the finances you end up,

08:54

frankly, salami slicing everything.

08:56

And that never is a good thing to do.

08:59

So, we set sail having a very strong

09:02

balance sheet and a real vision

09:04

of what we wanted to be.

09:06

And we classified it

09:08

under three headings.

09:09

Our purpose. What's our core purpose?

09:12

Being really clear

09:13

what our institution is about,

09:15

what it stands for, what its values are,

09:17

what we believe in. Both in respect

09:21

of our learning and teaching

09:22

and our research and innovation

09:24

and our contribution

09:25

to the civic community that we serve.

09:28

So, clarity and purpose number one.

09:31

Then secondly, we looked at our people,

09:34

both staff and students

09:35

and our external stakeholders.

09:37

And then the third thing that we had

09:39

was around place.

09:40

What do we want to say

09:42

in terms of place shaping.

09:45

And that really aligned

09:46

to the 2030 strategy.

09:48

And so we set sail on this

09:51

three years ago.

09:54

And that's the other thing that I would say.

09:56

We took action way before

10:00

we hit any financial stresses.

10:03

And that's important

10:04

because that allowed us

10:05

to get upstream in terms of some of the investments

10:08

that we needed to make

10:10

in order to shape our future.

10:12

So, what we did,

10:15

we set up a university transformation programme.

10:18

It does have a very clear leadership.

10:20

I am the executive sponsor of it.

10:23

I chair that group and every programme

10:26

and every project that we're doing

10:28

within a framework programmatic and project

10:34

transformation led by those workstreams

10:37

led by individual sponsors,

10:39

but all reporting into one board

10:41

crossing the academic space,

10:43

the research space,

10:44

and the professional services space.

10:47

And we were looking to broadly take out

10:50

15%, one-five percent of our total operating costs.

10:55

In the first year, we delivered 11 million.

10:57

Second year, 20 million.

10:59

We're now going into the third year,

11:00

which is 22 million.

11:02

and we’ve delivered on the money,

11:04

or we're delivering on the money.

11:07

But we need to do it

11:08

without breaking the university.

11:10

And that—because in the end,

11:12

we want the university

11:13

to thrive and prosper

11:15

and to continue to do more of what

11:18

we believe is the right thing

11:19

for us as an institution.

11:21

And the—one of the early pieces of work

11:24

we did was a subject readiness review.

11:27

Which was looking

11:28

at our academic portfolio, the market,

11:30

our performance and our attractiveness

11:33

and the outcomes.

11:35

And we looked back, three, four years

11:38

and then we projected forward

11:40

three or four years.

11:41

And that's giving us some KPIs

11:43

that we're now monitoring and managing.

11:44

We did the same for our research.

11:46

So, a research readiness review.

11:48

And we looked at

11:49

where have we got real strength.

11:51

Then the final piece was a professional services review,

11:54

which we've just completed, which

11:58

tipped the professional services on their head.

12:00

Why do they exist?

12:02

How do they support the core purpose?

12:05

Where are the overlaps?

12:06

Where are the bureaucracies?

12:07

And the final bit was

12:09

recognising as a university

12:11

we need to be more agile and fluid.

12:14

So, the days of having one intake a year.

12:18

Remember those days?

12:20

Whilst half the university enjoys

12:22

and would love to be in that space,

12:24

the vast majority of the world

12:26

has moved on beyond that.

12:28

And it's not unusual to have six, seven,

12:30

eight intakes a year.

12:31

So the whole university

12:33

structures and business models

12:35

have to be able to change

12:37

in order to deliver that agility.

12:40

But why is that important?

12:41

Well because that's what the market wants.

12:44

And in the end, it's best

12:46

if you can stay ahead of the market

12:48

and easily respond to it, rather than running

12:51

and trying to catch up afterwards.

12:52

So, those were the things

12:54

that the board were tracking

12:56

and wanting to understand.

12:58

And of course,

13:00

because we're doing this in live time,

13:02

what they're really interested in

13:04

is are we doing any damage

13:07

to the staff and students who are here now?

13:10

Because promising them in two,

13:12

three, four years’ time that it's going to be fantastic

13:16

doesn't cut it.

13:18

It has to be delivered now.

13:20

It's really interesting

13:22

what you've said, Steve.

13:23

And at one level,

13:25

having measures which really go across

13:27

the strategic ambitions

13:29

of the institution.

13:30

So, student experience ones,

13:32

research measures,

13:33

civic measures makes total sense

13:36

because you said in answer

13:37

to the previous question, actually,

13:39

it was the strategic drivers of the institution

13:41

that drove—that initiated

13:43

or in part initiated this.

13:45

I think Debra will kind of recognise,

13:47

you know, the organisational changes.

13:49

But it sounds like you had a slightly different

13:51

kind of burning platform

13:53

that was more immediate to you.

13:54

And I wondered if that meant

13:56

that the measures that you were looking at

13:57

were more obviously financial,

13:59

or were you able to keep that wider

14:01

organisational perspective?

14:03

Again, a really interesting question.

14:05

And I've been listening to Steve very intently.

14:09

Because he's absolutely right

14:11

that the earlier you catch this

14:13

and the more strategic foresight

14:15

you have, the better prepared

14:16

you are to deal with the outcomes.

14:18

I didn't have that luxury.

14:20

I'd inherited a college that was already

14:24

in very, very challenging circumstances.

14:26

Financially, quality, reputationally.

14:29

Anything that that could go wrong,

14:31

had gone wrong already.

14:33

Working with the board became easy

14:36

because at that point

14:37

you really, really have got only one way to go.

14:41

But context, I think, is everything.

14:42

So, if you'll just indulge me

14:44

for a moment.

14:44

So, although I lead a large further education college,

14:49

we are also a higher education

14:52

institution in our own right.

14:53

We have foundation degree awarding powers,

14:56

and we serve the city of Hull,

14:59

which is the fourth most deprived

15:01

local authority in England.

15:04

So, what we see here is quite unique

15:08

in terms of the pattern of our students,

15:10

where they go and what they do.

15:14

And inheriting

15:16

what is essentially

15:18

a college that has failed

15:21

means you have to make a very clear line

15:23

in the sand between then and now.

15:25

I was very clear, as were my team,

15:28

that Hull College—whether that's FE

15:31

or HE—you need it to be world class.

15:33

Because being good won't

15:35

cut it in an area

15:36

that serves the level of deprivation

15:38

that we do.

15:39

And I make no apologies

15:41

for having that ambition.

15:42

We will be world class.

15:43

It is our journey.

15:45

We own it and we will make that happen.

15:48

So, what does that look like

15:49

in our context?

15:50

Because, you know,

15:51

world class is a very nebulous thing, isn't it?

15:54

Well, for us

15:55

it was about the financial metrics.

15:57

So, we needed to move

15:59

what was essentially

16:00

an inadequate financial position

16:02

to be an outstanding financial position.

16:05

And we did that. We did that in two years,

16:07

which was faster than I thought we could.

16:08

And we did it without making redundancies,

16:10

which is something I'm very proud of.

16:12

You know, essentially as a new senior leader,

16:15

you can do evolution or revolution, can't you.

16:17

Those are the two back pocket tools you have.

16:20

And I couldn't afford revolution

16:22

because of the washing machine

16:23

the college had already been through.

16:25

It would just break it further.

16:26

And I didn't have the time for evolution.

16:29

So, I kind of did something

16:30

that I’m terming evolution at pace.

16:32

I took all the evolutionary moves,

16:35

but what you would have done over

16:36

maybe ten years or

16:37

so we did in about two.

16:40

So, we secured financial stability.

16:42

We were able to move

16:43

from a very significant deficit

16:46

to being an operating surplus within two years.

16:50

We also had very significant quality problems.

16:52

So, we were graded as requires improvement

16:56

twice on the bounce by Ofsted.

16:58

And we were under observation

17:01

I think it's fair to say by the OFS.

17:04

And from our point of view,

17:07

that's our core business. If we can't get

that right,

17:10

well what really is going on there?

17:12

So, we gutted and rebuilt our curriculum

17:14

to match local labour market intelligence

17:17

and regional labour market intelligence.

17:19

We built in proper

17:21

scrutiny for our teaching practices

17:23

and really highly effective continuing

17:26

professional development

17:27

for our teaching practitioners

17:29

at all levels HE and FE.

17:32

We challenged very robustly

17:35

our support teams.

17:36

I was very pleased to hear

17:37

Steve have those same conversations.

17:40

Why do these processes exist?

17:42

What do they do for the institution?

17:44

Are you doing it for you?

17:46

Are you doing it for the students?

17:48

Is the tail wagging the dog?

17:50

And kind of gutted and rebuilt

17:52

all of those relationships.

17:53

Our reputation had been really very,

17:57

very badly damaged.

17:58

So, we got shoe leather out on the road.

18:00

I went to see every CEO within

18:02

like a 30 mile radius.

18:04

I didn't send my team out.

18:05

I did it, you know,

18:06

and I wasn't after their business

18:08

because at that point

18:09

we weren't strong enough

18:10

to really take their business.

18:11

But I wanted to open the door

18:13

to the relationship

18:14

because it was the relationship

18:16

that mattered, not the business.

18:19

We also wanted to validate all of that

18:22

by securing external recognition.

18:24

And we had gone for maybe 15 years or so

18:28

without winning kind of a single award.

18:30

Last year we won 18, some of them international.

18:33

And we also have

18:34

absolutely established ourselves

18:36

as a thought leader in AI

18:38

and digital transformation,

18:39

particularly with marginalised groups

18:42

like English speakers of other languages

18:44

and SEN students.

18:47

What I would say is we started absolutely

18:50

with the end point in mind.

18:51

In four years, we will be a world class

18:54

further and higher education college.

18:56

That's what we will be.

18:58

So, what are the steps

18:59

that you need to go through

19:00

to make that happen?

19:02

And then you start

19:04

and then you go and you don't stop.

19:06

And although

19:07

that was a four year movement

19:09

and we're kind of just over two

19:10

years into that now,

19:13

I don't anticipate that stopping

19:14

because world class doesn't stop.

19:16

You don't hit a marker

19:18

and think, okay, we've done it now.

19:19

I'll just, you know, I’ll hang my principal shoes up

19:22

and, you know, do something else.

19:24

What does the next iteration of world class

look like?

19:28

What will the fourth and fifth

19:29

industrial revolutions bring to us?

19:31

How do we aid our communities

19:32

and our employers with inward investment?

19:34

The Humber is an incredibly deprived region,

19:36

but rich with opportunities.

19:38

What's our part to play in that?

19:40

How do we take our stage regionally

19:42

as well as nationally

19:43

and internationally?

19:45

So, I hope that gives you some sense

19:46

of how we put those markers in the sand.

19:49

Trusha, I'm going to move to something

19:50

slightly different and wonder

19:52

if you've got any perspectives on.

19:54

We've heard two really fascinating and fantastic

19:57

examples of institutional change

20:00

and indeed ongoing change also.

20:02

But I wonder if there are some things

that are common

20:06

missteps or common challenges

20:09

which often are encountered

20:11

when going through

20:12

sort of strategic change like this.

20:14

Are there things that can

20:15

perhaps commonly go wrong,

20:17

or perhaps are sensible

20:19

safeguards to have in place

20:20

to avoid common mistakes from happening?

20:23

Really good question, Aaron.

20:24

And yes, you know,

20:26

when you're going through change

20:28

whether it's delivered

20:30

with strong financial resources

20:32

or you've got to,

20:34

you know, you create a vision,

20:35

you create goals, you create plans.

20:38

And it's bringing other people

20:41

along with you.

20:42

And so, it's within the goals in the plans

20:46

it’s also to understand

20:49

where the resistance to change might happen.

20:52

Because there will be, you know,

20:53

the people who have been in the role

20:55

for a long time, done things

20:57

a particular way

20:58

and suddenly they feel challenged in that

21:03

and they can't see the big picture.

21:05

And it's taking them along and

21:08

you know, being,

21:09

it's what I call creating

21:11

that empathetic leadership

21:13

that we're seeing with what

21:14

Steve and Debra have said.

21:16

You have to be tough with it.

21:17

But you've also got to understand that

21:21

the people on the other side

21:22

don't always see it from your point of view.

21:25

They only see it

21:26

from where they're sitting

21:27

and they feel a bit of pain

21:30

but not quite understanding

21:31

where the pain's taking them.

21:33

So, it's understanding them

21:35

and taking them through that.

21:37

So, you can have vision and goals.

21:38

But to me, a goal is

21:41

if I could describe a goal

21:42

in the way I see it, sometimes

21:44

it's like on a GPS. On a sat nav.

21:46

It is the

21:49

it's your postcode,

21:51

so you know exactly where you're landing.

21:53

And a well set goal

21:54

always happens as Debra’s

21:56

just said, you know, that they hit a goal

21:58

in two years.

21:59

You know,

22:00

they thought it would take longer.

22:01

So, well set goal would always happen.

22:03

And the plan is the roadmap.

22:05

So, you know,

22:06

if you give people a roadmap

22:07

it seems hard. But a goal

22:09

sometimes helps bring them along the way.

22:13

The other one that is, you know, it's

22:17

most organisations

22:19

feel is resource limitations.

22:21

And I'm not just going to say finance

22:23

because finance is the obvious one.

22:26

But sometimes you have gaps in skills

22:29

or finding the right people,

22:31

or training gaps.

22:34

So there are lots and lots of resources,

22:37

even space sometimes,

22:39

or sometimes you've got too much space,

22:40

you don't know what to do with it.

22:42

So it's all of those things

22:44

that need to be managed

22:46

whilst you're managing

22:47

the resistance to change.

22:49

Let me ask a final question,

22:51

which is really about advice.

22:53

And we've had quite a lot of it already

22:55

in this discussion.

22:56

But I wonder whether you've, if you've,

23:00

if you particularly received

23:01

any valuable advice when you went through

23:03

or have been going through the process?

23:05

Or if there's any advice

23:06

that you would want to share with others

23:08

that are maybe about to go through

23:09

a similar such process

23:11

in their institution?

23:13

I think the best

23:14

piece of leadership advice

23:15

I was given was always just be authentic.

23:18

So,

23:20

I started as a further education practitioner.

23:24

I'm still, I'm a teacher in my bones.

23:27

I love what I do.

23:29

I love the further education sector.

23:31

But I actually got my start

23:32

in higher education.

23:33

So, this isn’t

23:36

this isn't just a job for me.

23:37

This is absolutely why I get out of bed

23:40

every single day.

23:41

I care about every one of my students

23:43

and every one of my staff.

23:44

And I didn't hide that in anything I did.

23:47

And I think that authenticity,

23:49

walking the floors,

23:50

making sure I was connecting with people

23:52

really mattered and really made the difference.

23:54

Particularly because I was new,

23:56

coming into what was quite a turbulent time.

24:00

And I think

24:02

the other piece of advice that I was given,

24:04

and this was way,

24:05

way back in my career was, you know,

24:08

be transparent and be decisive.

24:10

If you are

24:13

if you can't make a decision,

24:14

how do you expect your team

24:15

to have any confidence

24:17

that you can lead properly?

24:18

And if you can't explain that decision

24:20

in ways they can understand,

24:22

what are you doing?

24:24

In terms of what I would say to others

24:27

who find themselves

24:28

in challenging circumstances.

24:30

And, you know,

24:31

let's be honest, in our sector,

24:33

whichever phase you are

24:34

in, there are many of us in that position.

24:37

I would say

24:37

be brutally honest with yourself.

24:39

You know,

24:40

if you have outdated models

24:42

that don't work, face that truth.

24:44

Because your institution

24:46

survival depends on it.

24:47

And more importantly,

24:48

so does your students.

24:49

And those students matter.

24:51

Their lives matter.

24:52

Their futures matter.

24:53

It's not something you can afford to ignore

24:56

because it's inconvenient.

24:58

Sugar coating does not solve problems,

25:00

it prolongs them.

25:02

I think the next thing I would say,

25:05

being a Yorkshire woman,

25:06

you might expect this from me,

25:07

but line by line, penny by penny analysis

25:11

of where your money is going.

25:13

Because you might find

25:14

some absolute howlers in there where

you’re just like.

25:17

Really? We spend this much on this?

25:21

And it might help

25:23

make some strategic decisions.

25:25

So, transformation really isn't glamorous.

25:27

You know, I'm 21.

25:29

It just, it's taken the years off me.

25:33

So it's not glamorous.

25:34

It's granular.

25:35

So, during our overhaul,

25:37

we evaluated every penny line by line,

25:40

because every pound wasted was a pound

25:42

stolen from front line services.

25:44

And if you're not ready to dig

25:45

that deep, don't bother starting.

25:48

I think the next thing I would say

25:49

is data is your lifeline.

25:51

You have to operate on the basis

25:53

of what you understand

25:54

and you only understand

25:56

what you have credible data to support.

25:59

You really shouldn't

26:01

make bold moves on the basis of guesswork

26:03

and gut instinct,

26:04

because you can be wrong

26:05

and you can be biased.

26:07

And I think the last thing I would say,

26:09

and it’s probably less of an issue

26:11

for the further education sector

26:13

because, you know, cards on the table,

26:15

we've never been flush with cash.

26:18

But you really need to

26:20

eliminate any vanity spending.

26:21

It's not about looking good on paper.

26:23

It's about building sustainable success.

26:26

So, cut what doesn't serve the mission.

26:29

As Steve rightly said,

26:30

the missions is everything.

26:31

Where are we going?

26:32

What are we going to do?

26:33

Cut what doesn't serve the mission.

26:35

And that's kind of the advice

26:37

I would give.

26:38

You've offered lots of, lots of bits of advice.

26:40

I don't if there's any final

26:41

nuggets that either Trusha or Steve

26:43

would like to throw into the pot.

26:46

I've been at the university almost 30 years.

26:48

Coming up for 20 years

26:49

as the vice-chancellor.

26:50

So, this place, I'm invested in this place,

26:53

and I admit we got some things wrong.

26:56

So, I was really clear

26:57

from the outset that to be authentic

27:00

you have to be able to admit

27:01

when it's not quite working

27:04

and build the team

27:06

with determination that

27:07

is going to make sure

27:09

that you don't repeat those mistakes,

27:11

or you try and avoid them

27:12

as best you can.

27:13

So, for me it’s about painting the big picture.

27:16

Providing the hope,

27:17

providing the direction

27:19

and then sticking to that,

27:22

even when it got slightly difficult.

27:24

So, inevitably,

27:26

you know, vice-chancellors’ pay

27:27

and all the other bits

27:28

and pieces that get thrown at you

27:30

all the time.

27:32

In the end, it's about doing the best

27:34

you possibly can for the institution.

27:37

Any vice-chancellor,

27:38

principal, chief executive

27:40

is there for a moment in time.

27:42

Our job is to make it better

27:45

for whatever follows.

27:46

And most important of all,

27:49

we need to ensure

27:50

that we give the students who are with us

27:53

the best possible opportunities

27:55

and the best quality of education

27:57

we can provide.

27:58

Because promising it

27:59

tomorrow isn't going to help them.

28:02

I think that driving ambition of

28:04

seeking to ensure the organisation

28:06

and its stakeholders,

28:07

its community,

28:08

is better served

28:09

by the time you finish or into the future

28:12

compared to where it is now.

28:13

You know, that constant quest for improvement

28:17

is something that can,

28:18

you know,

28:18

make sure that you can keep

28:19

getting up every day

28:20

and face those difficult decisions

28:22

that inevitably come

28:23

with these sorts of processes.

28:25

So, I think that's really helpful to hear.

28:27

And Trusha, the final voice to you,

28:31

final opportunity to you,

28:32

any final reflections that you'd want to add

28:35

into the conversation?

28:36

Again, what Debra and Steve have said

28:39

is exactly the leadership

28:40

that the reviews

28:42

and, you know, the mistakes that can make

28:46

when you're doing reviews like this,

28:48

you know,

you accept them as a leader

28:50

and you own them.

28:51

But at the same time,

28:52

it's the differentiation,

28:53

because everyone looks at

28:56

higher education organisations and

28:59

think, well, it's all the same.

29:00

But you are all different.

29:01

Each and every one that I have met

29:03

is different.

29:04

The way you approach it.

29:06

And it's so you attract the students

29:09

and the staff

29:10

that then honour your difference.

29:13

So, if that's always kept in the

29:15

vision and goals, you thrive.

29:18

And so to me it's what makes you different

29:21

and have that always as a question

29:23

for yourselves.

29:24

And that’s where I've seen organisations

29:27

do really, really well.

29:29

Fantastic.

29:30

Well, that's a lovely note to finish on.

29:32

It's been so wonderful to hear

29:35

three fantastic perspectives on, you know,

29:38

realising and pursuing change.

29:40

I think what's interesting also is that

29:42

none of you have said it's job done.

29:44

We can, you know, we can lie back.

29:47

I think this is a feature

29:48

of the environment that we're in.

29:50

So can I thank Steve, Debra and Trusha

29:52

for some fantastic insights. Thanks for listening.

29:55

And we’ll be, we’ll join

29:58

you for the next session in due course.

30:01

Thank you.