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You are listening to Written in the Stars Books and Beyond, where hosts from the LCC Library sit down with writers, publishers, entrepreneurs, and literary enthusiasts of all types. Join your hosts, Amy Ewald, Robin Moore, John Celaeji, and Abby Thiebaud as we explore the very heart of the written word.

Hello and welcome to Written in the Stars Books and Beyond. I'm your host, Amy Ewald, and my co host, Robin Moore is here today, too. And today on the show, we have a poet, a writer, a counselor, a dad, really a man of many talents, and he is the author of two poetry books, Are you ready to love yourself? A black Man? And the embryo of my Manhood. He recently moved into the area of children's literature and self published a book called Because I'm a Baby. I love saying that. Yeah. Please welcome to the show, Chris Amos.

Thank you so much for having me. It's a joy to be here.

Yes. Welcome, Chris.

We're happy to have you here today. We're happy to be back in the studio recording. We had a little bit of a break for summer and that. So we're back. So, Chris, like I said before, you're an author, a counselor, parent. Seems like you wear a lot of different hats. So tell us a little bit about all the different stuff that you do. And then more importantly, how do you even find time for all of this?

That's the hardest part. But I started when I was young. I started when I was young, like around 11 years old, in the sixth grade. We had a poetry class. So I went to University Preparatory Academy in Detroit. This was actually the first year that they opened. And since then, like, from that poetry class, I think that's when I really started to dive into writing, partly because of that emotional expression. Right. And I grew up listening to, like, rap music, hip hop music. So, like Tupac, Eminem, dmx, like the strong personalities and the deliverer of words. And I think I started to kind of resonate with that style of expression. And since then, I just haven't stopped writing, and I started to expand a little bit and just trying to grow. So getting into the children's literature and. Yeah, just kind of going from there. But it's hard to balance. But I think that's kind of the fun part, too.

Yeah. Yeah. So you write poetry and you have two published books. How would you describe your poetry style to your listeners?

The influence from the, like, Eminem, dmx, from the rap and hip hop music, I think that really resonates with my style of writing. So I kind of like, write with music in mind. Almost like a free verse type of approach, But I have that rhythm and that pattern that flow in mind. Kind of depends on the piece. But I think I really do take a lot from music, so I try to blend in the music and the poetry writing. So it kind of speaks from the page.

I kind of saw that in your. I read your poetry book. Are you ready to love yourself a black man? I said, oh, am I? I am.

So.

So when I saw that title, I said, oh, are you ready to love yourself a black man? And then when I read some of your. Your poetry in that, I could feel that I'm a music head, so I. I know what you're talking about. I could feel that. So how did you move from poetry? Cause your poetry is deep. That book is. It was really deep to me, that piece that you wrote. So how did you move from poetry into children's literature?

It started so the. Cause I'm a baby book. It's kind of based on a true story about my oldest daughter. She's 8 now. I wrote it when she was 2, and I think I wrote it in like an hour or something like that. This was maybe a little bit before COVID or like right when Covid started. So, you know, we were just in the house all the time, and she's doing her little toddler twee wrote stuff, just throwing things around and crying and being a little sour patch. And it just. Just flowed like off of my head. And as I was reading it, I don't even know how. I eventually just thought, okay, this can be a children's book. But I think just talking with different people and exploring googling stuff, reading other things, I think probably reading other, like, children's books. It just seemed like it fit. And so I used the website Fiverr a lot, the freelance rep website, and things kind of addicting. I had to, like, step back a little bit. But the Illustra, that's where I found the illustrator. And her portfolio is so great that, you know, we just started working together. And, you know, I get ideas from other people, and I think I'm a huge collaborator because I just. I think that helps to grow expression, whether it's art, music, whatever it is. And we just kind of like took it from there. So my first book, I self published, so I kind of had that experience a little bit and where it kind of took off.

Wow.

Yeah. Your second poetry book, though, was picked up by a publisher in Oregon, I think I saw. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. Did you have any like was it a different experience to for like self publishing versus working with a publisher on something?

Yeah, it's, it's a little bit different. I think the, the contract, you know, really like identifies like how that relationship is going to be and I like that publisher because it wasn't too constrained. It's like a 50, 50, like split. But I think the way they picked up my book is just from a submission, like an open artist submission. And that's the book that I submitted. I didn't think it was going to get picked up, but they loved it. And you know, we had like a few rounds of editing and there's certain things with a publisher that you know, I can do with self publishing that I can't do like in my contract. But I think one of the biggest things is not having to like hustle as much. So like with the self publishing, you know, you're finding the illustrator or cover designer, you're finding the editor, you're doing the marketing, the advertising and sometimes that just gets to be a lot and you might lose motivation to do some of that stuff. You know, I find more reward in the actual like writing and maybe like sharing like at open mics or something like that. But having to like sell something, I don't really like that. Like some. I feel weird sometimes when people, you know, they say, okay, I'll buy your book just to support you. And that's not why I wrote it. Like I want you to read it. You know, you can compensate me or donate. But yeah, that's, that's the reason. But I think it helped to have someone else do some of that work and I can just focus on the writing. That's what I like the most.

Yeah. Do the legwork it sounds like. Yeah. Well, I enjoyed reading. Are you ready to love yourself a black man? I must say I do want to read your other book because I'm a baby.

Yeah, I do. Want to tell us, actually tell us a little bit about that book and the premise for that.

Yeah. So I wrote it from the child's perspective and I think it's kind of like I feel like parents are the target audience with that and it mostly kind of just normalizes like that toddler like stage. So you know, you hear about like terrible tools.

Yeah.

But it's like once you look back on it, it's kind of fun but they know how to push your button. So I have an eight year old, a two year old and a six month old and like the two year old now, she just turned two In August, Eliana. And she's really like, at that point, it's just like buttons you didn't know were buttons, they just push it. But experience, you know, with our oldest child, it helped to have a more like calm and understanding approach because, you know, sometimes you just kind of react and that emotion kind of comes up and that has a real like impact on them, that frustration. And I think the book was kind of in my like, you know, own personal sense to kind of help normalize like that behavior for just day by day, things that they do just mess up the floor, the wall. And my thing is when you cook and you spend like hours cooking, they're crying, they're hungry. And then when you give it to them and they're just like, ah, I don't want it. That's a button. Yeah. So I think I touched on some of that stuff in the book, but it just kind of just to show that it's normal like that, that range of emotions that they're developing and exploring their behaviors, the freedom of just learning about the world. Right. It is really important to have that appreciation for that stage in life.

I think so too. I was listening to when you said that you have three kids and how like your first child, you kind of learned how to deal with those emotions. But your second child, same way. I have like a 31 year old, a 25 year old and a 19 year old. So each child has a different part of me because I've learned to grow in each relationship with them. So I feel you on that. Totally. Yeah.

I mean, that's the thing about parenting, Right. You're growing and learning and changing just as your kids are growing and learning and changing, you know, and you're trying to, you know, figure out parenting and how. I only have one child, but I know a lot of times with the first, like you're trying so hard to get it right.

Yeah.

Sometimes you're trying too hard.

Right.

Yeah.

It doesn't take all that. So go out and buy parents, go out and buy the book. Yeah.

One thing I kind of learned to appreciate or realize that you don't really learn how to become a parent until you become a grandparent. Like, I mean, I don't, I'm kind of assuming, but yeah, I just observing like how my mom like interacts with kids. Not to say like, you know, she wasn't like a good parent or anything. But I can just tell, like the approach is a little bit like different. Like that wisdom really allows you to, you know, just appreciate what they're going through. And I try to, like, challenge myself sometimes because, you know, if they're, like, eating candy or ice cream, you're like, no, you. You kind of want to be a good influence and, like, educate them, but, you know, they go with grandma or something, and they're just eating up everything. I'm like, okay, am I doing this right? She's been here before. Like, she knows what she's doing. So maybe I need to look at this a little bit differently. And that kind of speaks to the purpose of the book sometimes, too, just to make you think about what's going on and what you're doing.

Yeah. As a parent, I like that.

Yeah. Really looking at your own actions sometimes, too, and how that. I mean, that works for a lot of things.

Right.

Just not parenting, but looking at your reactions to things and how you know that's. That's going to come across to other people or, you know, can only control. You can only control yourself. Right. Your own reactions.

I'm thinking about. Because when you're talking, I'm thinking about that counselor hat that you wear. Right. We haven't tapped into that yet because that's what I. I'm seeing. This author, but also counselor.

Yeah.

Do you find it therapeutic to write and what helps you to find your voice?

Yes, I definitely do. And, you know, sometimes you go through those, like, waves of writer's block or, you know, like that creative, like, energy, I think, from the emotional side of it, especially developmentally, like, for. For me, too, experiencing different feelings, emotions, you know, going through, like, depression and. And anxiety. Things like that. You try to find ways to express. And I think that was a channel for me. And the interest in therapy or becoming a counselor started in high school from, like, a psychology class. I was like, wow, this is, like, a really interesting topic. And I've also found that people just, like, would naturally just feel comfortable with me and just, like, tell me stuff. And I'm like, dang, do I have to take this to my grave or what? The way they just, you know, just kind of divulge, like, information and are vulnerable with me, I. I really, you know, appreciated the respect and trust that they would. Would build with me. And I think, you know, as I started to develop, like, with writing, started to develop, like, professionally too, and eventually, you know, I. I've been trying to, like, merge them a little bit, but I think writing has been such a, like, personal thing for me that, you know, I haven't took any, like, official approach or, like, steps to. Okay, let's do this therapeutic approach with, like, writing. I think the. The children's book is probably, like, the closest, but that's more for, you know, like, human development, like, parenting at the same time. After the shooting happened at msu, because I was, like, on campus, like, at the time, and, you know, as my role as a therapist, like, at Michigan State, that changed, like, a lot of. And, you know, just personally as a staff, it almost opened every pathway of trauma that I've, like, experienced. And that Greek channeled writing, like, as a. As a expression and, you know, just, like, that therapeutic sense for me. And it's funny, like, the day that it happened, one of my colleagues, he put on, like, a group therapy using, you know, just, like, expressing. Just expressing yourself, basically, like, creative expression. But that really reconnected that therapeutic approach for me. So I'm still kind of learning that and, you know, living through it, but, you know, several things just over time just kind of reformulate who you are and, you know, the things that you do.

That was difficult for our whole community.

It was.

Yeah. Robin and I have talked a lot about journaling. We both. Robin and I do a lot of journaling, and in a sense, that's a type of therapy for me sometimes to sort of get it all out of my head and onto the page, and that helps me. But I was kind of curious if when you maybe do go through something like that or, you know, you do kind of get it all out on the page, do you have to find other ways then to sort of bring yourself back up a little bit or kind of refill your cup?

It does that sometimes. Just the action of it or, you know, like, rereading it or, like, editing it. It almost helps to, like, refill in some ways. And it's kind of like the beauty of writing and that speaks to its, like, therapeutic role. Sometimes you can really feel those intense, like, emotions at the same time. Like, maybe that's kind of what we need. Sometimes it's almost like exposure therapy when you're, like, really thinking about something like Head on and, you know, trying to process it. I do take that, you know, free verse type of approach. So sometimes I just kind of, like, let it out. I don't think in my head, like, okay, I want to. Yeah, you know, for. For some things, it just kind of. But, like, the personal, like, stuff, it just kind of, like, comes out sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah, Just a flow and that connects.

To the influence, like the Tupac, the dmx, the Eminem, like, the old Eminem, the angry, like, Eminem. You Know, I really, like, resonated, like, with that.

The eight mile.

M and M. Yeah, yeah. With those emotions. I mean, and, you know, as an adolescent, like, the anger, irritability, that can be a sign of depression for, you know, a lot of people.

Yeah, yeah. And I saw that in your poetry. Are you ready to love yourself a black man? I saw all the different directions, like, I could see from relationship to being a black man. And in a professional setting, just how your poetry. Yes, I saw that there's so many layers like those.

So many layers, systems at play, the barriers and everything else. Just living in that. I think that's when things start to meet, even if it's, like, subconsciously or unconsciously. I think Tupac said one time, when I write rhymes, I go blind and let the Lord do its thing. So it's like that spiritual influence, too, that trust and that faith behind it all, as well.

As I was doing a little bit of research about you and that I found an article that you had wrote about for counseling today called Life After Sport, and you were pretty open that you had an accident with a drunk driver and sustained some pretty serious injuries that sort of changed your life. And then from there, though, you went on to gain a master's certificate in addiction studies, and you counsel people who are struggling with addiction. And so I was really struck by the idea of addiction. How did you move from just blaming somebody for this horrible accident to turning that to where you could help people?

I don't even know if I've, like, moved completely. I'm still living it every day, in some ways, just because of the loss of identity with being an athlete, because it happened my freshman year at msu. You know, I was on scholarship, and I really wanted to be, like, an Olympian and. And kind of use, like, poetry, too, as, like, you know, my other hustle in. In some way. So that was kind of the dream, but it was just kind of, like, stripped for me, especially at a time where brain injuries and mental health wasn't as understood as it is now. So it was a lot of trial and error, and the writing, you know, had a role in that. But I think when I really started to get a sense of the. The bigger picture is when I took steps to kind of reformulate my. My identity and recognize, like, that didn't. It never left. Being an athlete is still, like, who I am. I mean, I'm competitive. Like, if it's Mario Kart, it doesn't matter. It's still there. It's just the injuries, because I was A high jumper. And, you know, I had to have, like, five surgeries on my knee, and that was the leg that I used to kind of, like, jump off of. So, you know, I deal with the physical pain and. But even from the mental element, like, once you get to, you know, collegiate, professional level, a lot of it becomes mental. And that's where you see the differences in that, like, elite status, just, you know, how people think, how they persevere. And that's where it, you know, really started to click for me during my internship, because I was in Chicago and. And I was interning at Columbia College Chicago, which is like, another, like, creative, like, school. So, you know, it's kind of like, with my peoples in some way, and it just clicked, like, wow, I can do this with athletes. And, you know, once I graduated and I came back to MSU and, you know, I really started to pursue, like, the second master's degree with. Because I didn't have, like, a lot of kinesiology experience or, like, education, like, background. So that was another way to kind of reconnect with the sport field and the athletic field. And I'm starting to realize now just how rewarding, like, learning is. There's, like, a sense of reward you get, like, when you're, like, learning something.

Yeah.

Wouldn't say it's addicting, but it's reinforcing for sure. So that just allowed me to kind of get back to my roots and continue to say to myself, like, okay, I can, you know, still, like, do this. You know, I can still have an impact. I can still help people, and I can kind of pursue my dreams in, like, a different, like, way. I mean, it wasn't what I thought, but still can pay off.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a work in progress, but it's where I am right now.

You just took a different path to get there.

Right?

That's it.

Yeah. And it's an acceptance piece that kind of comes with it or almost required in order to get to that point.

Yeah, that acceptance is, I think, the hardest part sometimes, and the struggle. And like you said, it doesn't always happen right away or right when you want it to. It takes a lot of a long time to get there. I know some of the things I've experienced in my life have been, like, that. I'm still working through it, for sure.

And that's the thing, too. Like, we're all kind of, you know, going through our, like, own things. You know, there's so much that people don't share to, like, anyone that they just kind of keep inside. They internalize. And when you think about it, like, we're. I mean, we're human beings, right. On Earth. We don't know what's going on, what we're doing, but we're just here.

Right.

We're experienced. We're a lot more similar than. Than we think. You know, shenanigans make us forget that.

Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting, too. I always think, as humans, we often like to plan. Right. We have these. It's gonna. I'm gonna do this, and then I'm gonna do that. And then we're. This is.

Our plans.

Our plans. And then there's often. They get derailed, you know, just by life, by circumstances, things that happen. And so your plan is often different than what the other plan is for you. Or, you know, if you're spiritual, you know, God might have a different path or plan for you.

Yeah.

So.

But you'll get where you need to be. Exactly.

But you end up where you need to be.

Yeah.

At the end of the day. Yeah.

I think Covet really taught me at least that you really need other, like, people. So, like, that reformulation of the plan or just acceptance of, like, a new, like, path is also influenced by, like, others. You know, trying to do that on your own, you might not click or. You might not get that, like, understanding or realization or whatever it may be.

Yeah.

But just others. Not even just like, therapy, just friends or just being with people. You know, a lot's going on in the. In the brain. And I think Covid, like, the isolation, quarantine really, like, taught me at least that it's valuable just having each other as humans.

Yeah. It taught me community is important. Important. My people. Yeah, my people, Amy. You're my people. Yeah. So it's saying community is important. And I never thought about community like that until Covid and I. I was isolated. I'm like, wait a minute. Where my people? Where's my community? And then when we started to come together, I was like, okay, I see my community now.

Yeah. So it's wild. That was five years ago.

I know.

Almost six now.

I know. And Covid is still lingering. Oh, God. Yeah. What roles does spirituality play in your work in life? Because. Sounds like there's some grounding there. What's going on?

Yeah, for sure. I think the grounding is a accurate way to describe it. I mean, I. I think I kind of grew up, like, Baptist in. In some ways, at least, like, attending, like, Baptist churches.

I think we are.

To go Somewhere.

Yeah, it really defined, like, that. That foundation for me, just like that relationship to God, each other, the nature, the universe, like, whatever it is. I think that kind of served as a foundation. And, you know, I think my mom is a big piece of that. I recently realized, like, she gave herself to God probably before I was born or, you know, around that. That time, at least from, you know, what I can observe. And I mean, that's kind of a big shoe to feel or to live up to, but just it never, at least from what I can see, never, like, swayed or derailed. I mean, you probably have your natural doubts, questions, whatever it is. But when she would speak with me or my sister, that. That faith was always, you know, a central, like, core, like, piece of her motivation and. And who she is. And I think that kind of comes full circle for me, even with, I think, like, intellectually, you know, I really try to, like, understand. And, you know, there's a lot of different, like, interpretations of various, like, religions and, you know, the Bible, the Quran, whatever it might be. And I try to, you know, just keep that central piece, that faith, and just being grounded and just taking a harmonious, like, approach and being okay with that because it makes it less, like, complicated. But I think that helps to connect with other people, too, from various walks of life, faith, whether they're atheists or, you know, like the Pope or something like that.

Yeah, yeah.

I think we're. End of the day, we're all still like him.

So kind of going back to what we were talking about a moment ago. But it does seem like we're living through some very difficult times right now. And there's a lot of people who are suffering from anxiety and depression. And if you could maybe take a moment and share with our listeners how you find joy in life when things seem dark and overwhelming, and what thoughts do you have for our listeners who may be feeling those things?

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of an ongoing thing as well, and just try to survive. I think I visualize what I want a lot. Like, I'm a visual, like, person. I think imagery is kind of like a big piece of just how I think. And that kind of goes back to that reward, just seeing something that I want and removing the doubt and the barriers and questioning, questioning if I can, or the shenanigans. Just kind of like, sometimes you have to take away instead of. It's not really like, okay, what can I do to feel better? Sometimes it's, you know, taking some of those things and just naturally you'll just kind of, like, fall into place, but just the generals. So that social, like, element, I think being with. With people is a big piece. I think personally that kind of goes into, like, the foundation of love like that I have. I think that really describes, like, who I am. Just in kind of get that with, like, writing and performing too. Like, just the goal of, you know, when you're in front of a bunch of people and you kind of want that standing ovation, that's that love, right?

Yeah, that's.

That's a goal that you kind of, like, strive for. So you're focused on the steps to get there. What it feels like, what you want and the shenanigans doesn't really kind of impair it. I mean, it does, but when you're doing it right and successful, that's what you're focused on. And sometimes, you know, it's really hard to get to that point. But if you don't lose sight of it and just try not to, like, give up, I think things will start to fall in place if you continue to make those, like, steps, whatever it, you know, might be just something that you love. Whether it's a person or a goal. I think that it's a good starting point, at least for. For me, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good thought. Yeah.

Finding joy and what you love, just sitting in it. That's what I got. I'm gonna just sit in it. It may be uncomfortable, but it'll come. Things will work out. Just sit in it.

Your perspective begins to change at that point.

Yeah, it does. Oh, my gosh. Our time is up. Thank you, Chris, for sharing this space with us and time with us today. I encourage our listeners to read some of Chris's work in poetry. His poetry book, Are youe Ready to Love Yourself? A Black Man? I love saying that is available on Amazon. I actually downloaded it on my Kindle, so I'm really excited about that. So I can always reference it and go back. Links to his other works and articles will be linked in our show notes for today's episode. Thank you to all of our listeners for listening and thank you, Chris, for gracing us with your presence today.

Thank you for having me and thank you for love.

Yes. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you.

You have been listening to Written in the Stars books and beyond. Visit lcc.edu library to find the titles discussed in this episode. You can find previous episodes of Written in the stars and other LCC Connect shows at lccconnect.com in the words of Miguel de Unamundo I Hope Reader we shall meet again and we shall recognize each other.

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All right, everybody in the car. Let's go. What are we gonna do first when we get there, Mom? Go for a hike? Sure, if you want. What about canoeing? Can we go canoeing too?

I don't see why.

What about a bike ride? No, I want to fish. I've never been fishing. Honey, we can do it all. How long does it take to get to the forest?

It's not.

Is it gonna be long? I bet it takes forever. It's not that far. Are we there yet? Yep, we're here already. No way. Come on, come on. It's a short drive from your neighborhood to your naturehood. Visit discovertheforest.org to find a neighborhood park or green space near you. Also, find fun activities to do like boating and biking or camping and hiking, plus much more. It's all right in your neighborhood. A public service announcement brought to you by the Ad Council and the U.S. forest Service.

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Connect voices, vibes, vision. It's time for Stars on Sports, a.

Podcast radio show dedicated to sharing stories about our athletic program at lcc. Past and present.

NANCY Community college athletics has a strong tradition.

25 national championships, over 190 all Americans, 19 MCCAA all sports trophies.

Stars on Sports will introduce you to individuals that have contributed to our program success and give you the backstory on what it takes to develop it.

We'll also dive into and break down the topics and issues facing athletic departments across the nation. And right here at lcc, this is Stars on Sports.

With me.

Tonight, we'll all go wild after our victory.

Calm down your.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Stars on Sports. I'm joined by our assistant athletic director, Steven Cutter and our producer, Dallian Lowry. And today, gentlemen, we're going to be talking about discipline. I've listened to.

There it is.

Funny guy. Funny guy. We prepped him. We prepped him. But right when most people think of discipline in sport, they think of a negative connotation. But what made me think of it is one of our previous podcasts you had mentioned that discipline leads to consistency, which leads to success. And I really wanted to hit that harder because I agree. But when people think of discipline, even as a parent or in sports, you think of punishment, you think of sprints, you think of being late and having to do this or not playing well and having to do this consequence. And as a parent, you always said, I'm going to discipline my kid. The interesting thing to me is in athletics, discipline has a big connotation. But when you really break it down, as you did with that statement, is athletes are some of the most disciplined.

People and everybody that has success in anything that they do are some of the most disciplined people.

So again, you already took a little air out of the tires. But I mean, you have a strong background in discipline and the other side of it. But do you still, when you first hear it, have a negative connotation?

I don't think anymore. I think the negative comes from discipline is about making bad choices, and that's where that comes from. So if you make a bad choice, there's going to be. You're going to be disciplined for it. And I believe that discipline is about making great choices and it's not about what you say, but it's about what you do. And it truly separates the uncommon from the average. And it's a special, special thing.

The Dalian you were going to.

Well, when you came in and you. When we were off Mike and the very first thing you said today, we're gonna be talking about discipline. The very first thing that went to my brain and always does anytime I hear the word is Pink Floyd's another brick in the wall. I always think of the end, the outro, where he's, eh, you can't have your meat without any of your pudding and all that. But knowing that I was talking to you guys then, I was able to reshape my mind and think about it in the terms of sticking to a good regimen to make yourself a better athlete, which makes sense.

Man, sounds like we prepped him. But how do past that first?

I mean, again, you teaching, teaching is where it is and really defining discipline and what it looks like and showing examples of that through that process. And the more that you teach that discipline is an extremely positive avenue in your life, the more it gets recognized as a positive thing versus a negative thing.

How often does the word discipline come up in, in your program per se or the just more the process.

You have to have communication. You have to be able to have a language. And based off your language, you might not always be using the discipline word, but there are other words that are keyed in to that discipline word. But it's constantly teaching that that's, that's not something that you just hit on one time and then hope everybody remembers. It's like learning how to play the guitar. You're not going to just get one lesson and, and be amazing at it at that point. You need to have that hammered home time and time again.

And I appreciate that because my point is, I think even as coaches, we don't bring it up in the positive way of the discipline to become a better guitar player is practice and process. We bring it up in the negative condone is, you know, sprints or a tough practice today. And so I think, just like the Dalian said it changing that mindset and I think with mental performance and with the emphasis on punishment being a wrong way to go about thing, that it can help change how discipline is important. Because, you know, we've talked before, even with Nick Saban saying you don't have a lot of choices if you want to be successful. But it comes down to discipline. It comes down to doing those things and researching for this podcast habits, you know, developing habits.

That's the other thing I was thinking of. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt that. But that's the other thing I was thinking about. To me, the other way I think of it is discipline. That means either dropping a Bad habit or picking up a good habit. And each one requires discipline and either one, it's a change. And people do not like change. Most people, I shouldn't say that. Some people embrace it. Not me, I'm not a good changer.

And I don't remember this quote, but I should because one of my favorites like drastic change creates a revolution, slow change creates an evolution. And the key to it is if you try and change something too quickly, everyone rebels. Where if you work on changing over time, it's like the frog in boiling water that if just put them in there and turn up the temperature, they don't even notice. But so, and I think good coaches and good teams do that with the discipline of habits to be successful. Because we both know habits take time to stick or form or develop. You know, I always thought it was a three week thing and I don't know where I learned that but you know, we've talked about hours before. You know, looking here there are the 66 day thing, but having said that, it's still developing those good habits every day. And it takes discipline in a positive way to do that. Because I think that's what you were talking about is that's what leads to.

Consistency are those habits and then leads to success. And discipline really is a non negotiable and it doesn't really care about your excuses or your feelings. And if you think about in the world of sports or in our world here or anywhere else, you've got a lot of people asking how are you feeling? And you can do amazing things when you feel terrible. You can, you're still capable of that. We've seen that in the sports world. We've seen that in, in real life where you're maybe not on your best stuff but you're still able to produce, you know, special work, you're still able to show up and then that's where discipline really just like I said is, is it's a non negotiable. And if you can incorporate that in your life, you're going to see more success. And it's not going to, it's not going to come out of the microwave immediately but you start stacking those bricks, you start seeing the positive things that do happen.

And bricks are a big thing we've talked a lot about that is you know, when learning about discipline and building habits, you know, starting easy, the key was celebrating successes. Those are key things to help keep habits going. Because the other interesting thing is in building habits or trying to get consistency or success, you're going to handle adversity. You're not, you know, like, like one of the things was. And part of it we talked about is morning routines. I'm not a morning person but when you read of highly successful people and not everyone gets up at 4am but many of them do talk about their morning routine. And we talk about making your bed in the morning, about getting something accomplished. Building, stacking a brick, building motivation. But having said that, out of a seven day week there might be one day you didn't make your bed and don't dwell on that but make sure it doesn't happen the next day or, or you know, building those bricks the other way.

Does it count if you make your bed in a sloppy manner? Because that's what I do.

I mean I wake up and I make the bed. I just, you know, I'm like, I got to go the dallian how you do anything and how you do everything we've talked about. All right, fair enough, fair enough.

I will take more care with my bed making.

I think either you control your discipline or your lack of discipline will control you.

And a perfect example when I read this is brushing your teeth. I mean you do that every day. That's a habit you do every day that you have a trigger, you do it and you feel good after it. If you can get to making your bed that same way, then you wouldn't want to miss making your bed. Like you wouldn't want to hopefully miss brushing your teeth every.

Those are easy wins and that's kind of what you're looking for is to be able to start your day with some easy wins because everybody's days are going to have some heavy backpack carrying time. So you look to get those easy wins out of the way right away.

So you're saying afterwards I need to celebrate once I get done making that bed.

Yay self talk. Just a little bit like plus one. There's a great start to the day. That kind of stuff that goes a long way just because the internal stuff in your brain typically is, is spinning a lot of negative stuff and it's been spinning that. It spun it yesterday and it's been spinning it for a long time. So self talk is very important.

I think it's very important. I've told you before, if I ever get do something hard, I'll leave and go like this or I'll give myself high five. There's been studies out there of how in sports, how contagious, giving high fives of having contact with someone else in a positive Manner.

Touching in general. There's a lot of stuff about teams in halftime speeches and stuff. How impactful halftime speeches can be if you can get a team surrounding each other arm in arm. How impactful just the touch is back.

Again, I'm not a morning person. Are either one of you morning people.

Through discipline you have.

Yeah, yeah.

I would not call myself a morning.

Person, but I think when we met you probably weren't as much. But over the last couple of years you've really changed. You're scheduled to do that and so it can happen and hope things to work out well. And again, it's sad because like I was on vacation last week and we would get up every morning at 6am to see the sunset and I was fine or sunrise. But why do I come back and then want to sleep in the seven? You know, I mean the motivation of getting a great picture and celebrating today, which motivation is another thing that gets confused. Short term it is short term. Yep. Temporary and unreliable.

Extremely.

Discipline helps overcome that. And again it's just more that sustainable method. But you know, the other interesting word that comes in with discipline that isn't probably generally associated, but we've talked about before is procrastination and how that can lead to a lack of discipline. And we've talked about the negative connotation of procrastination before and how it even can be a positive thing in regards to discipline. You're pushing off that task or habit that you need to do. So understanding that and knowing that I thought was also an important part of discipline. Because again, we've talked about procrastination in a positive way in the past before or mental toughness is another big thing that helps with discipline. The other interesting thing I thought that was telling was when most people think of positive discipline in athletic, they think of fitness like a fitness routine or working out on a regular basis. And I thought that too. One that led up to me that yeah, that's again having the discipline to work out every day or going to a gym in the morning. But that is discipline. That is, you know, that's one aspect of being a successful student athlete is working out and being disciplined. The time management another important part of that. But back to motivation, you know, self control. There are some interesting stuff on delayed gratification and I know you just talked about this and how it's moving away, but the problem with discipline sometimes is there isn't that immediate gratitation. You just talked about the microwave thing like making your bed one day. It's great what do you get? Rewarded for it. But over time, it becomes your habit and you do feel good and reward about it. One of the things that's in there, cold showers, which I do take now from a podcast that we listen to. I get mad when I don't take one. I get mad that I'm a wimp or something because I, you know, chickened out of taking it that day or something. But there's positive things to it. But it took time to get that. I mean, the first week or two, it was like, this is stupid. This is crazy. You know, but you get to a point, but at that delayed gratification, also.

That it builds confidence. And delayed gratification in general is what sports are about. You watch people work and work and work until the lights come on and they come and hopefully get some. Some positive stuff out of it. So it definitely applies to athletes, but it applies to everybody in life, too.

It does. And there was a thing about a marshmallow test where kids had a marshmallow in front of them, and the test was if they waited 15 minutes, they would get two. And I don't remember the percentage of many ate it right away, but the one that did wait, it showed that they did better academically, they did better with relationship because it was that delayed gratification thing. And I think that again, back to huge in discipline, because it's one of the reasons I think I had the negative count, is because it takes time to build it, and you don't have that immediate reward of, you know, running a mile one day. You know, that there's, you know, we're running it over time or even that 1% better. So I think it's a form of.

Respect in a lot of ways. And it. It shows how much you respect yourself. And that's what it. It's not total respect, but it is definitely a form of respect when you think about it like that.

Yeah. And so then the last thing that I wanted to hit. Well, there are two things, actually. Time management is, again, something I've shared, that I wanted to be more productive and learn to by scheduling things every day. But I think that really helps with discipline, too, is when you plan, when you prepare and eliminate distractions, even like that morning routine, if you plan for it, or like we've talked about doing it the night before, it gives you more control, which gives you more time, which gives you more things to do which lead to discipline. So I just thought time management was an integral part of discipline.

I think the early mornings kind of show the distractions are way less in the early mornings. And they, it can be as simple as just traffic on the highway. It's just different. So you don't, you don't, when you talk about discipline and eliminating distractions, there's some really low hanging fruit there with just getting up early because there's less people that are up early and there's less traffic. And so you don't have those distractions of, of what you might have in a normal day. And therefore you're able to do whatever it is that you want to do to help yourself get a little bit better. Whether that's just preparing for your day, preparing for the time that you're going to be in the office or whatever it might be, that's stacking bricks. That's what it looks like.

And I think that's a great point because not discipline wise, but one of the things I always try to teach my kids and my family and my teams was take the high road. You know, the low, less travel, that not as many people are on the high road as they are on the low road. It's easy to sit back and chime in or something, but be professional. Take the high road. And I think that the same thing as you mentioned, being a morning person, there are just not as many people that do it. So that opens up the getting things done. And I remember a colleague of mine that after his kids got older and he had more time on his hand, he would go to the office an hour earlier and that first hour he got more done than he did, you know, the rest of the day because of just no one else was there and there weren't as many distractions.

The roads, it's harder for us in Lansing because all the roads, roads are kind of a mess right now. So whether you take the back roads, the high roads, the low roads, whatever, it just takes a lot longer to get anywhere.

But I will say that it's a lot more peaceful to drive early, early in the morning as opposed to the stressful 8 o' clock commute. Seven, eight o'.

Clock, absolutely. And that's a plus one right there. When you recognize that and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah.

All of a sudden a stressful drive becomes a peaceful drive. Yeah.

And it is stressful. I mean, and then again, they're working hard and, and it's amazing how much work they get done in a week. But even our parking ramp, I mean, you learn. Yeah.

I was gonna say to that point, Greg, you would have less people to park around so you'd be all set, too.

I just go up to a higher floor and then there's not as many cars. People don't wanna walk.

Oh, so you circumvent everything and just pretend you can park that way?

I wasn't thinking this, but today even I went up to the fourth floor and someone took my spot. So I was a little upset because I up on the fourth floor, there's usually two cars.

So next week's title of the podcast is going to be entitlement.

Or Greg doesn't like change.

No. So anyway, I was going to park just across from it and settle, but no, I backed up and parked to my spot, not in between two cars. And I backed up into it and actually did a pretty good. I was in between the line. I need that reaffirmation for my discipline. Thank you. Thank you, entitlement man. Nope, I adjusted. That was my point. And I still backed in when I was going to just settle for pulling up in the middle spot. But which leads to another part of discipline is accountability. And I've talked about this before, and I believe what helps with discipline, too, is having others help you. And that I think the best part of athletics and being part of a team is, you know, we've seen it even in the negative kind of tones of sprints, of other people cheering for them to try and make a certain time, but even on staying on task. And you two update on me about my parking, and I really wasn't thinking it was Wednesday and parking there today. I was just trying to overcome a challenge. But I truly believe in accountability, partners in life. But I also believe it's a big part of discipline, too, that it really helps if you have someone holding you accountable, yet also being positive and encouraging you to continue, like, come on, Dadalia, make your bed tomorrow, or, you know, a significant other that helps you. So I think that's also an important part of discipline. And not all of us have accountability partners. That's why I think athletics, it helped because that team format naturally lends into being that. And we know on unsuccessful teams, they're probably not on the page and they're arguing or divided more than working together to help build those habits, build those process, which again leads to consistency, which leads to success, success, which you talked about earlier about teaching that. But when you put everything aside, having someone help you stay on track, I think is one of the important tasks of having successful discipline in a positive way. So anything else, Dan?

All right, you said it all, Greg.

Well, I say too much Most of the time. But I need you to keep me in line.

Discipline. That's what it's all about.

Yeah, right. True. In a negative way. So I was on vacation last week, and on that vacation, I didn't try anything big like some of our group did, but I have in the past. But there were duck tacos, octopus tacos. There was something else, too. Oh, grasshoppers.

Where were you at?

I was in Mexico.

Okay.

Our daughter's a senior, so a group of students and their families went on spring break.

Interesting dishes.

Very interesting. And my wife had gone there before, and I did try a cricket. Didn't taste too bad. These grasshoppers were like cooked grasshoppers. So my question is, what's the most bizarre food you have ever.

I wondered if we were gonna go there. I don't think I could even remotely come close to anything like grasshopper or anything else. I think mainly because I've learned about discipline and basically the ability to say no.

Right.

You know, hey, some of these are.

Delicacies in these countries, but that's fine. Right. But our dumb. And again, some of them people didn't respond well to eating these.

But you did or didn't try.

I didn't try them on this trip.

You didn't try any of this?

Not those three, but I had before. I had a cricket before on one of our previous trip. That'd probably be the most bizarre. I'm pretty strict, too, on my food regimen and keeping things.

Things.

So nothing super bizarre for you, Steve?

No.

All right.

Well, the bizarrest I. And I wouldn't call it bizarre is alligator.

Okay.

Yeah.

Alligator bites.

So. And I wasn't impressed.

I would never eat it again.

It was very rubbery and kind of gross.

I didn't think duck was that extravagant. I think American society has eaten duck. The octopus, they thought that was pretty fishy from the people I talked. And the grasshoppers tasted like grass, they said, and weren't real.

So you didn't try any of it, and you've never tried any of it before?

I had a cricket before.

Oh, you did try a cricket before.

With my wife on a previous trip. That would be the most bizarre. Like chocolate covered. I'm not even a calamari guy, you know.

Yeah. I'm not a fan.

So.

So. So chocolate covered cricket. What kind of cricket?

It was. It was a breaded cricket.

It was breaded.

It didn't really taste, you know, I mean, the bread drowned it out.

It was crunchy, had some crunch no matter what. Yeah, that's what I heard. That's what I'll always hear because I'll never try it.

Cutter's saying I didn't have discipline. Thanks Cutter. Thanks my accountability partner. So okay, you need to do a.

Grasshopper pizza for him sometime and then there you go.

Yeah, good cause. Yep, grasshoppers on our pizza. That sounds great. But until next time, go stars Stars on Sports is recorded live at the WLNZ Studio. Engineering and production assistance are provided by Dadalion Lowry and you can listen to the episode and other episodes of Stars on Sports on demand@lccconnect.org to find more information about our athletic program, visit lccstars.com thanks for listening. Be sure to join us next time for more Stars on Sports. Oh, I'll have a real good time.

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