Right.

I, I definitely, I definitely see the continuity and you're 100 right.

If, if you are.

If you.

Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Let's.

Let's get you.

Say that again.

I need that quote.

You're 100 right, Johnny.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, guys, thank you for having me.

Yeah, really engaging discussion.

Especially the fact that Tom said that I was correct on something because I, I gotta clip that because that's never going to be heard again in history.

Oh, it'll.

It's gonna be heard because Andrew's gonna play it.

Yeah, he, he's going to sample it.

It's going to become part of the show.

Intro from here.

I gotta remember to get that.

Wait, wait, Tom, say that again.

Andrew was right.

Andrew was right.

Andrew.

I've never heard a dispensationalist say that.

But thank you very much.

I 100 agree with you, Drew.

Either you or someone out there, please, you gotta, you gotta clip this, this episode, because no idea.

I'm 100% right.

He totally agrees.

Like, I mean, this is.

Andrew's not used to having so many people go, yeah, you're right.

What do you mean used to?

I'm not used to anyone doing that.

What do you mean?

I'm only used to being called the heretics.

What is up?

I mean, we are agreeing just way too much here.

I mean, that's great.

Answer.

This is Apologetics Live to answer your questions.

Your host from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rapoport.

Well, we are live Apologetics Live here to answer your most challenging questions that you have about God and the Bible.

We can answer any, any question that you have about God in the Bible.

And if you doubt that, well, the, the thing to do is to just, well, go to apologaxlive.com scroll down to the duck icon where it says, to participate.

Join us.

Ask me your most difficult question.

I just want you to do one thing.

Remember that I don't know is a perfectly good answer with that intro from down under.

Who has a great name, Andrew.

But he says Andrew was right once.

But I do got to thank him.

He just became a member using through YouTube.

So we thank you for that, Andrew, for your membership and, and to join that way.

That is much appreciated.

I have a new setup, so I'm going to be looking kind of all over the place.

So if I look like, hey, where's Andrew looking at?

Well, I, I now have set up.

So I got a screen over here and a screen over there so that I can have my Bible, I can have my, basically my, my show notes right in front of me and then I have your comments over here.

And so it's, I'm kind of looking forward to being able to, to have kind of everything all on a screen, not having to flip between.

So that will be nice.

So with that, I do want to encourage you guys, if you want to come to apologexlive.com this is a ministry of Striving for Eternity.

We are here to do apologetics.

We're here to teach it, to display it, to show an example of it, to explain it.

That is what we do here.

And tonight's topic is going to be on Islam.

And what we are looking to do tonight is kind of go over.

Well, I'm going to go over some stuff from my book, what Do They Believe?

Which if you're watching live, it's, that's the book right there.

What do they Believe?

You can get it at striving for eternity.org and that book is something that goes over the major Western religions, looks at what they believe.

And so if you are a someone who believes on, in Islam, I want to encourage you to check out that book and see where you might think I get anything wrong.

I have had a Muslim imam, actually two, that reviewed the book before it went to print, that checked it out and, and said I was accurate.

And we're going to cover a lot of what's in there tonight.

So some comments we have.

Andrew says no excuses when you lose track now.

Yes, he realizes that yes, sometimes I do lose track of where I am in as, as I'm trying to find.

It is hard when I don't have my co hosts here.

They've been kind of busy with things and so it makes it harder for me to run the different things, keep a track of all the comments and, and everything else.

And so Jesse Heller says.

Yeah, almost forgot you were on today, brother.

Appreciate you, my friend.

Well, I appreciate you.

I do.

I do enjoy those of you who come in here and especially the regulars in the chat.

Papa Bear Odin says hello.

And so folks, if you ever want to come in, you just go to apologetics live.com that is the link.

It never changes.

It's always the link to join.

I just may change the link that you go to underneath, but you can watch there, you could join there, you want.

If you want to comment.

You have to go over to the YouTube channel though, unfortunately, that's just the way it works.

And so with that, I do want to get into a little bit of what we're going to cover.

I want to be able to start a little bit of a background on Islam and for any of the the Muslims that may come in later, we've been having them join last couple of weeks.

My challenge is going to be and I'll make it later if we see more commenting in the, in the chat.

My challenge is going to be that if you think I misrepresent anything here as I discuss on Islam, I want you to let me know whether you want to email me or if you want to contact us by coming on and joining.

If you want to contact me or the ministry really let me know.

Just go to info@sfe.bibles that stands for Striving Fraternity Info.

SFE Bible.

I will get that and that will be something that you'll be able to contact me.

So Apologetic Draws says dang, I am in the middle of making dinner, listening from the kitchen.

Well, I'm glad you're listening and I do want to give a shout out as I look over here to some of the notes.

I, you know, I haven't done this often because I don't really look at the stats and things like that.

But I, I do have this, this tool that we use called Pod Gaugement.

If you have a podcast and want to keep track of and things like that, it's a great place to go.

Do encourage you guys to write reviews on whatever app you're listening to.

But it's interesting to see some of the countries.

So when we look at by country, the highest rankings we've been in for this show, we've been number one in the Philippines for Christianity.

We've been number three in the Philippines for religion and spirituality, which is the broader topic.

And so that's, that's kind of neat that we made it that, that up to that.

In Ireland, we made it to number four under Christianity.

In Norway, we were number six under Christianity.

New Zealand, we were number seven under Christianity.

Ireland, we made it as high as number seven for religion and spirituality.

I don't even know where Sicily's is.

I didn't know it was a country.

But we're number seven under Christianity there.

And we made it to number eight in religion and spirituality.

And in Germany we made it to the number 11 in religion and spirituality and we made it to number 12 in Christian, the category of Christianity in Benin.

B E N I N so I didn't even know that some of those countries even existed.

But I do, I do thank all of you, not just in America but all around the world that listen, it is greatly appreciated.

So as we, as I said, I want to look at Islam tonight.

Why I said this last week, I'm, I, over the course of the next year, both on my Rap Report podcast and this podcast, I want to dive into different topics of Islam.

And the reason I want to do that is because we spent in 2020, 2021, a lot of time to address a threat that we saw to Christianity being Marxism.

And I see a new threat that's going on now that is a threat greater than Marxism, which is Islam.

Islam is a threat to both Christianity and to America because you cannot separate, if you're a faithful Muslim, you cannot separate Islam the religion and Islam the political system.

Now, Christianity, which is this country was formed by, based on Christian values, and yet we had the idea that we should have a freedom of religion.

And that is something that we can have because Christianity is not about a political system.

I know we've, we've talked about on this show before Christian nationalism.

And the left seems to have a hissy fit over Christian nationalism, yet they never have a hissy fit over is Islamic nationalism.

Now, Jesse Heller here says Islam and communism are brothers.

They sort of are.

It is something where we see a lot of similarity there.

And I think that the reason there's so much similarity is that you, you see this right now in America where Islam is willing to use communism for the purpose of pushing their religion.

In other words, they'll use communism to go after Christianity.

But eventually they're going to want to dominate and they're going to want to have Islam be the national religion.

And so we have to see now, I mean, look, why, why do we have a guy in, in New York City, a mayor who's promoting homosexuality as a Muslim and no Muslims are freaking out over it.

It.

Well, ultimately, they're on the same side.

They're, they're against the side of truth, light, God, and, and that's the thing.

So both have a common enemy.

And so they will both be happy to go after Christianity.

But as I've said for probably about a decade now, when, when you have atheism that's working with, and, and communism is atheism, but when you have atheism and Islam fighting together against Christianity, when Christianity, if they get what they want and Christianity is not a major force in America, who wins?

And this is the thing I want all of those that profess to be atheists, I want you all to think about this.

Who wins when, when it comes to a Battle of atheism versus Christian versus Islam.

Well, the Muslims win because they have, they were willing to die for what they believe will be in the afterlife.

Atheists aren't willing to die for what they believe in and Muslims are.

So if you ever get your wish, you, you professing atheists, you'll be wiped out.

So just something to think about.

We have some comments here.

Fracto says it is because the world hates the truth of the Bible.

Absolutely.

That is the thing that you end up seeing is they hate the truth of scripture.

That's why in Islam, as we'll see, they, they end up messing with the Bible.

And, and we looked at some of the inconsistencies last week and I encourage if you, if you didn't listen that, go listen to, to last week's episode that where Josiah Nichols had an article.

They talked about some of the inconsistencies and we discussed that.

And though there were many Muslims in the chat, they weren't willing to come in and discuss it.

So begin looking at just some background on Islam on Muhammad because I know many Christians are not so familiar with some of this.

And Islam is a religion that was founded by a man named Muhammad in the early 7th century.

The word itself, Islam means to resign or surrender to really to submit to oneself.

That is, that's the idea core essential of what Islam is.

It is one of submission.

A Muslim is one who has submitted or who does submit.

So the word for Muslims, they find the root in the word peace Salam.

And yet the way they see that peace is through submission.

And, and this is the thing that must be understood.

Their ultimate goal is submission.

And so that's what they expect from, from everyone.

Okay.

Now Muhammad himself was born in 570 AD he was illiterate.

This is something that he never wrote the Quran.

He had given the Quran to people orally and they memorized it orally.

But he himself was illiterate.

And I do want to Note the date 570 A.D. we mentioned this last week on last episode.

And the reason that becomes important is because 5 by 570 AD by the time he's born we already have 300 manuscripts, over 300 manuscripts of the Greek New Testament.

And by the time he starts reciting the the Quran it's in the 600s.

And by then we, we still have more over 400 manuscripts.

Why is that important?

Because one of the inconsistencies we pointed out last week is that Islam will say that in the early things of the Quran that you can trust the Book meaning the Bible and later it's going to talk about that it's been corrupted.

And so as you look at that, well, if we have copies of the scripture, manuscripts of the, of the Greek New Testament prior to Muhammad's birth and Muhammad said you could trust that book but then later says it was corrupted.

So at the time he said you could trust the book and the people of the book, we can compare to those copies of the manuscripts to today's copies of the manuscripts and the meaning hasn't changed.

We talked about that last week.

And so that is a strong argument we can make because once the Quran teaches that you can trust the book and we're going to look at that, that hopefully today, I don't know how far we're, you know, I, I planned on, as I put in the show notes, I plan on covering the, the, the core beliefs of Islam, the view, their view of God, their view of Jesus, what salvation is in Islam and the core differences between Christianity and Islam.

I don't know if we're going to cover all of that today because there's a lot and it's going to be dependent on your questions as well.

So what we look at when we think of the major world religions, Islam is actually one of the youngest.

And you go, Andrew, that's like 1500 years ago.

Yeah, but it is one of the youngest of the major religions.

When you think about Judaism and Christianity or you look at Hinduism and Buddhism, right.

These are all older now.

Does that make it right or wrong?

Nope.

Some people will argue that the oldest religion is, you know, a pagan religion, Egyptian religions and, and Christianity, they'll argue that Christianity had copied from these other religions.

Well, actually the oldest religion is biblical.

Whether you want to say Judaism, Christianity, it's what the Bible teaches.

That's the oldest because it was, goes all the way back to Adam and Eve.

That's how far back it goes.

The first man and woman.

And so I, I'm, I'm just pointing out that it is a major religion and it's the youngest of them.

I, I'm not making any arguments of whether it's, that's a good or bad thing.

Some people think if it's new, it's bad or if it's new, it's good, whichever.

I'm just making the statement.

But the concepts that Muhammad got a lot of his information from, it did come from a form of Judaism that he was familiar with.

And if he had contact with Christianity, it was not Christian.

Biblical Christianity, if that, because we see that he has quite a confusion in the Quran about what Christianity's core beliefs are.

So but by the time he's born in 570, a lot of the Christian doctrine has been written.

We have, we already have at this point Augustine, or Augustine, however you want to pronounce his name.

He has already written quite a bit.

We are already seeing the church starting to form its, its core doctrines.

There starts to be the development of the Eastern and Western splits.

They're just starting.

We don't really have the Catholic Church yet.

The, what we think of as the current Roman Catholic Church that actually won't really be established until about, well, Pope Innocence ii I think.

So around a thousand something AD is where that really starts to get solidified and it's really finalized maybe in the 1500s, 1600s after the Reformation.

Much of the, the what you see in Catholicism is responding to the Reformation and they solidify a lot of things back then where they, they add books to their scriptures, things like that.

That, so you could argue, and it's be a valid argument to say that Catholicism is actually the youngest, they would have issue with that.

And, and I do plan to have on my Rap Report podcast we're going to talk about Catholicism.

I have a local pastor that we're going to come in and, and talk about that.

So as we, as we look at this, Muhammad, I said was an illiterate.

He was an orphan slave to a wealthy widow.

So a woman who was married to a merchant, he dies and she has basically buys Muhammad as a slave and eventually will not only set him free, but she will marry him.

Now, now I think that there's for whatever you want to think about Muhammad, just from my study of Islam and books I've read on Islam courses, I've taken university courses taught by Muslims, faithful Muslims and different classes.

I think that we could look at Muhammad and see that he must have been a very charismatic individual.

He's someone, I mean you think about someone who is a slave and is, has the slave owner who is much older than him willing to not only set him free, but marry him in a culture where the man had the rights.

And so when you look at that tells you something about Muhammad.

She, she would have had a great amount of trust in him.

He must have some been a type of person that she, she at least believed that he would do right by her right, because if she, if she had, if she doubted his integrity, she's not going to marry him where he could just take over her, her merchant business.

So we have to Be very fair.

When we look at other religions, other beliefs that we don't agree with, we want to make sure that we're being honest and fair with that not everything Muhammad did was evil.

There seems to be some who, who think that.

And so I, I just want us to be careful with that.

And he was someone who by his marriage, her, she being a merchant, it seemed he, he had some importance after they married.

He, I, I put in my book that he had more uninterrupted meditation time to focus on things of religion and philosophy.

And he looked at his, his fellow countrymen that the tribes around and what you end up seeing is that he starts seeing problems with the polytheism in the area.

And so he, he ends up just as he's traveling and he ends up, you know, studying the different, different religions, looking to understand and convince his, his neighbors, his people he comes in contact with that, that God is one God.

Okay, Jesse Heller put up his comment up.

He says does anyone do right outside of Christ?

Well, define right, Jesse.

You, you're right and you're, and you're wrong.

Right.

You're right in the sense of no one can do good in God's sight outside of Christ.

We can, we, we can't do what God would say is right.

But there are people that are moral that they, they for selfish reasons, but they can be a moral individual.

And I think early on, I think that I'm, I believe that Muhammad was pretty moral, not right in God's eyes, but I think he was a moral individual.

Just from looking at some of the things in his, as we end up seeing in his, his background.

And so what we end up seeing is he was, he would, he ends up being in Mecca.

He's forced out of Mecca because of his teachings and his followers moved to Medina.

Now this was a major, if you study anything about Islam, this is a big thing.

When, when he left Mecca goes to Medina.

It's, it's in Medina he, he develops the, his, the teachings formalizes them much more.

He uses his teachings of Islam that he's, he's formulating to really bring up a lot of peace early on.

I mean you had a lot of tribal wars going on.

You had a lot of people who were fighting amongst them.

And Muhammad took all these Arab tribes that were fighting and, and were able to give them a, something to unite around.

Now this is not new.

Constantine did this with Christianity.

If Constantine was saved and some think he was, it would have been late in his life they think.

Now it does seem his mother was what Constantine's mother was a Christian.

And so what you end up seeing though is he Muhammad used the teachings of Islam to bring unity.

Okay.

And that did work for quite some time, but eventually he ends up winning much of the Middle east or well, not him, but Islam through warfare.

So, so there is a change.

So Muhammad early on is bringing about the idea of peace.

Later on it becomes more of warfare.

Okay, so that's just a little bit of a background.

There's more if you want in my book where I, I go through the background of, of Muhammad himself and a lot more.

So with that I do see our, our friend here formed a wolf faith.

He who is a. I believe just from comments a.

A Muslim and so could be wrong but formal faith is more than welcome to join in.

To come in, go to apologeticslive.com you can join the discussion.

You can agree, disagree, tell me where you think I'm wrong on anything that I, I've said.

And so the.

I know the chat is going crazy.

I'm.

I'm storing the thing so hopefully we can get to them.

Been looking for questions.

It is, it's hard when I'm all alone to do that.

So let me try to grab some of them.

See right from the beginning, see what, what comments we have.

So Fractos Euro says Thomas Jefferson stated that Muslims are inherently incompatible with American citizenship.

I think I, what that's really addressing is the idea that you.

Because Islam is a political religion as much as a is it's a religion, but it's one where there is no separation of church and state or in this case mosque and state, but formidable faith.

Had some comments.

Says here the disbelievers from the People of the Book and the polytheists would not want you to receive any blessing from your Lord, but Allah selects whoever he wills for his mercy.

Okay, I, I don't quite get the point there.

But you know, he.

This is one of the things that's frustrating a little bit with forbiddable faith is he doesn't actually engage with too much discussion to give some quotations like this where he just says and Allah is the Lord of infinite bounty.

Okay, but here's a.

Here's one thing to think about but Allah.

And we'll get into this more when we talk about Islam's view of God is Allah cannot be a God who is just and merciful.

Let me bring Dan Kraft, one of the speakers at Striving Fraternity is here.

The seven foot apologist.

Welcome Dan.

Hey.

Talking about a topic You.

You don't mind talking about Islam.

Oh, man.

So one of the things that we.

We got to notice is that the.

The idea of God in Islam now they will say Allah most merciful.

That Allah is the.

Is a merciful God.

But mercy and justice are mutually exclusive.

Since Dan's here, I will use Dan as my.

For my illustration.

If I.

If the law said that if I slap Dan across the face, that he must.

Justice says he must slap me back with equal force.

Now, first off, if I was to slap Dan, I would need a ladder first to reach.

To slap him in the face?

No, you'd need a plane ticket first.

Well, granted, I'd need to go to the other side of the country.

But if I was to slap Dan, he has two options.

He could slap me back with equal force.

That would be called justice.

He could not slap me.

That would be called mercy.

But how can he show both?

See, mutually exclusive.

If he slaps me halfway so he doesn't give the full weight of it, well, that's some mercy.

But it's not really just because the justice said the full weight had to be paid.

The mercy, really, if it's real mercy, is that it's not paid at all.

So these are mutually exclusive.

So in Islam, you have a.

A view of a God that had to be have.

You have to choose between mercy and justice.

This is what is different with Christianity.

We have a God that's both just and merciful.

We have a God who came to earth as man, paying the full weight of sin.

When Jesus died on that cross, he took the full weight of sin upon himself.

It was full justice because the full weight of sin was paid on himself.

That's why he can offer us full mercy.

It's not like we.

Like in Catholicism, we go to purgatory for, you know, a few centuries or.

Or millennium.

There is no.

It's all been paid.

We don't pay any of it.

That's mercy.

Amen.

Any comments you want to make there on that day?

Oh, that.

You.

You got it, man.

That's.

That's all it needs to be said.

All right, well, Let me bring Mr. Josiah Nichols in as well.

Josiah was on last week.

For those who we mentioned earlier in the show, Josiah's article.

And he came in last week and talked about the inconsistencies of ISL And.

And we have, you know, Josiah, we have a couple more Muslims in the.

In the chat right now tonight, but none are joining us yet.

So for those Muslims, I do encourage you to come at.

Well, Anyone can always come in.

Go to apologexlive.com you see it scrolling at the bottom?

Go to apologexlive.Com and just join us in the discussion to scroll down to the duck icon that Dan created for us and, and, and click that I'll.

Be famous for something.

Dan the man.

Well, you're.

I, I know because I am such a sports buff that you're.

You're famous for stuffing a guy's name who I don't remember.

Yes.

His name shall not be mentioned.

But he was a professional basketball player.

He was, once upon a time, as was I. Yeah.

So.

But those days are long gone, my brother.

We don't need to, we don't need to dwell on the past.

Yeah.

So what I want to get into is looking at, you know, what is the, some of the core beliefs of Islam.

Right.

They have, you know, one of the core things is this belief of the oneness of Allah.

And it would, it's.

And I, may I, I, I. I'm gonna mispronounce this.

I know, but it's T A W H I D is, is the idea of it Tahid, Twahid or Tahid, I'm not sure which because I don't hear it enough, but it is the idea that, that God is one.

Now, we dealt with this last week as an inconsistency.

So we have two Christians here.

Let me put them on the spot.

Josiah, how many gods do we see in biblical Judaism and Christianity?

I mean, it maybe it may be different, but help me out.

Well, Judaism, they get it from.

Well, there's a lot of places they can get it from.

But I was, I was thinking of the Shema hero, Israel, the Lord your God.

The Lord is one.

And Jesus quoting that about the greatest commandment.

Have you not read here the, the hero, Israel, the Lord your God.

The Lord is one.

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, with all your strength.

And Jesus said that I and the Father are one.

So he's still one God, but he's distinct from the Father and the Father's distinct from the Holy Spirit.

Therefore it's one God, three persons, not three gods.

Dan, same question to you.

Christianity, Judaism, how many gods do they have?

You're on mute, though unmuting is a good thing.

I am, because I got tired of listening to myself breathe.

There is only one God.

I have nothing more to add to that.

Yeah, so, so when, when they make this argument that somehow they're what they're holding to is different, you know, well, we only believe in one God.

This is, this is the, I think an inconsistency with Islam that you see in the scriptures is that it is assuming that we hold to something different than the one God.

And that's because they get it from the Quran like we looked at last week.

Well, to try to be, try to be fair there, to play devil's advocate a little bit.

The, you know, the doctrine of the Trinity is not exactly easy.

Even non Muslims get, get it wrong all the time because it's not an easy doctrine to grasp.

And there's no, you know, the, the, the word itself Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible.

And some people latch onto that and make a big to do about it, but that the doctrine is clearly taught, but it just spreads over quite a few scriptures that you have to, as Pastor Hutch used to say, you have to concentrate and connect.

You got to connect the verses and put together a comprehensive theology, not just try to use one verse to proof text.

I don't need to play the devil's advocate.

He gets enough defense from the Democratic Party.

So I, he has enough of those.

And I, I'm not going to be fair with this either.

They get the Trinity, they get the third Trinity, they get the persons wrong.

They, the Quran says that it is the fa, the Father, the Son and the mother.

In fact he says.

Did, did not.

Did I ever say to you, oh Mary, that, that, that you should be a God alongside me and Jesus should be a God alongside me?

Yeah, it speaks, he speaks to, he speaks to Jesus there though.

He says to Jesus, have I ever said to you and your mother, oh, that's it.

Yeah.

So our friend formal faith, this becomes a test here.

You know, one of the things that does bother me about formal faith, he just puts, he just challenges with things but never actually dialogues.

Just throw something out when you respond to it.

He just changes topics.

He or she.

But he says you claim research.

What is the only unforgivable sin in Islam?

Well let me answer that for you.

According to the Quran Surah 448, it says Allah forgiveth not the partake the partners.

Sorry.

Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up up with him, but he forgiveth anything else to whom he pleaseth.

To set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin.

So heinous indeed.

And so the idea there is that the unforgivable sin in Islam would be to believe in a Trinity.

Now we do have a.

Someone that's come in.

In.

I don't see him on camera, but I'm going to add him.

Him or her, I should say to Hamas.

Welcome.

What's going on?

Hey, how are you?

I'm all right.

How are you guys doing?

Good.

Now, would you, would you be from Muslim faith?

Yes, sir.

Oh, good.

So are there any so dream just ask you a question?

I don't know what your question would be, but so far, I don't know how far you've been listening.

Is there anything that I've said that about Islam that you would say I got incorrect?

I would say you don't have the best understanding of the mercy and justice in Islam.

And that's because.

Continue.

My fault.

I didn't mean to interrupt you.

No, no, no, I said.

Okay, yeah, I'm interested to hear it.

Yeah.

So the way, basically I'm just going to restate, like, your perspective.

So I don't.

You know what I'm saying.

So you guys are basically saying if God is perfectly just, he has to punish sin, and if God forgives sin without punishment, then he's comprising, compromising his justice.

Right.

Because he's most just and most merciful.

So basically he cannot be both perfectly just and perfectly merciful unless justice is satisfied through like an atonement or a punishment.

Would that be correct?

That would be correct.

And if I, if I could just interject one thing for, for the audience.

I want you guys to all know what Hamas did there.

And by the way, did I pronounce your, your name properly?

Yeah.

Hamza.

Hamza.

Say it again.

Hamza.

Hamza.

Thank you.

I want you to notice what Hamza did there because this is, when we do apologize, this is a very important thing.

Notice he did not assume our belief.

He restated it in his own words to confirm what it is we believe right now.

Why, why do.

Does he do that?

Very simply.

So now he knows we're talking and he just dropped out.

He might have had Internet troubles.

We'll see if he comes back in what he's doing there.

By doing that, he's, he's identifying that.

Now we're talking on a level playing field now.

We can, we can talk the same.

So it's not that we're talking past one another.

When you do apologetics, it's very important to do that.

It is very important to make sure that you do not misrepresent the other side.

That's why I'm kind of bummed that he, he dropped out because he kind of was saying that I wasn't understanding his position rightly.

And so I want to make sure that, that, that doesn't happen.

Right.

Very important thing to do when we, we especially when we talk to about with people that would disagree with us.

So that's a very important thing to, to recognize when you do.

AP.

Dan, you have to, it's just good life advice too.

Right.

I've often said that after I read Greg Koukl's book Tactics, it not only helped me overcome my fear of talking to atheists and Jehovah's Witnesses, but it also helped me in the business place.

I'm a software engineer by trade and frequently I would have right after I got done reading Tactics, I would frequently have technical arguments about how we should solve certain problems with more junior developers.

And I would just kind of turn it back around to them using the things that I learned in Greg Koechl's book.

I would just say, okay, well, you explain to me why your position's better rather than me just constantly trying to say, no, my way is better, my way's better.

Say, okay, you explain to me why your way is better.

And then almost invariably the more junior developer would come around and say, you know what, what?

You're right.

I'm like, oh, I'm glad you see it that way.

So, yeah, the whole thing about we don't want to just, you know, this, it's a good skill to have is to make sure that you understand the other person correctly.

You know, gentleness and respect and the whole nine yards.

So don't just, don't just squirrel it away for something you do when you're having topics about, about the Bible.

Yeah.

So Hamaz, if you're still out there, please, please come back in.

Please join because I do, I, I, I did want to hear what Les, he was going to say.

Yeah, it's a bummer.

Yeah.

So one of the, so some of the other things that I, I just have in my show notes over here and, and again, for those who joined in late, I, I have a new setup.

But Josiah, you know, last week I had to hold the microphone because, well, you know, there's just something about water and electronics that don't go well together.

And so I spilt my drink all over my Rodecaster and it didn't work after that.

But hey, there's, you know, God's providence.

I, I called a, a friend of mine, Daniel J. Lewis, who is a, is a hall of fame podcaster, and I said, hey, my rodecaster died and of course I told him how it died.

So it, you know, he could laugh at me.

And so the end result was I said, said, is there anything better out there other than the rodecaster?

And he gave me the zoom.

What's this called?

The zoom P4.

The P4 next, the pod track P4 next, which is like one fifth the size of the rodecaster and does everything the rodecaster kind of does or everything that I need it to do.

And so I'm very happy with that now.

And it's much cheaper.

Yeah.

Maybe this is just a sign that God was trying to tell you to quit drinking.

Well, the problem is, is, you know, if I stop drinking water, I kind of die.

Yeah.

As you.

As you take a drink.

So another core belief of Islam, not just the oneness of Allah, but is that Muhammad is the final prophet.

So they don't discredit Jesus as a prophet, Moses and many of the others, they see that, but they would say that Muhammad is the final prophet.

When we get to the view of salvation, you're going to see that in what you have to recite to become a Muslim.

And, and it.

The.

To become a Muslim, you have to recognize Muhammad as the final prophet.

Prophet.

You have to also accept that the Quran is the final revelation.

So you'd have all the books of the Old Testament, the books of the New Testament, and then the Quran as the final revelation.

And Josiah, last week you kind of made some references, similarities between Muhammad and Joseph Smith, because Joseph Smith kind of does a similar thing.

You know, the.

The Book of Mormon, it was kind of like, you know, and Pearl Gray Price, that those are the final revelations.

Can't really say Book of Mormon because that was technically they would say, written before the Bible.

But I would say anyone that wants this, this podcast is a member of the Christian podcast community.

And in there we have true Espresso.

He's been going through the Book of Mormon and he's been pointing out all the plagiarism that the Book of Mormon has to the Bible.

In fact, a very interesting study that the Tanners had done was they looked at the English.

I don't know if you guys ever looked at this, but if you look at Old English, there's a.

There's certain things that, because we don't speak that type of English, we don't know the.

These and the vows.

And there's a proper use of the.

Is that Elizabethan English is a more precise English than what we have today.

And.

And it was really interesting that almost every time that Joseph Smith got the These and thou's and things like that.

The precision, right.

It's when he was quoting the King James Bible and every time he wasn't he got those things wrong because they didn't speak that English in his day.

So but would the Quran would be the final revelation.

There's, and we'll look at this later, the five pillars of Islam.

So I'll hold that off.

And then the other thing is the idea of Sharia.

Now to say Sharia law is basically to say law law.

Okay.

Sharia means law.

You could say Islamic law, Islamic Sharia.

Right.

But it, it is the law.

And, and that is what we are talking about when it comes to the idea of the, the, the lack of ability to separate Islam the religion from Islam the political system.

It doesn't have a separation of church and state.

Now where do they get the Sharia?

Well, from Hadiths primarily.

Okay.

So when we talk about the Quran, the Quran would be something that every Muslim would, would hold to.

But there's separation when you come to the different sects of, of Muslim beliefs.

When you look at the hadith, the hadiths are the, the writings after Muhammad died of sayings of Muhammad.

And you see the schism that occurs between, I mean there's two main groups of Islam that you see the separation of.

And so it's basically from the hadiths that's, it's very much like Judaism in that sense where you have, you have the, the Bible, the Old Testament and much of their beliefs though today what they would, the, the modern Judaism or Rabbinic Judaism would hold to is really from the Talmud which is just writings of a commentary of what they would say is law because it's off of what they would have, they have.

So in, in Judaism you have the, the written law that's the Old Testament, what they would call Tanakh.

And then you have an oral law that they say was given to Moses on Mount Sinai and recited down supposedly through the gener, eventually wrote it down many centuries later.

And the Talmud is a commentary on that oral law.

So, so in that sense it's very similar to the Hadiths.

It's kind of what they would hold to.

And I, I don't know that they would, that many Muslims would say it this way.

But I'm just trying to make the comparison with, with Judaism that it's the, it's a kind of the commentary Muhammad's sayings on the, the Quran on.

And, and the, the Talmud would have been being written during the time of Muhammad's life and therefore he, they.

There's a good chance he was familiar with that at least some of the, the teachings within that.

By the way, one of the things I do find interesting is if he was familiar with the teachings of the, the, the Talmud.

The Talmud very similar to the Quran also believes that the kind of unpardonable sin is to believe that God is three, not three gods, three persons.

And so there is some similarity there and I almost wonder if that's where he might have gotten it from.

Well there's David Wood was talking about Muhammad kind of being like a walking ear.

That's kind of how people, some of his enemies would describe him apparently like he would hear something from somewhere and he would say it and then he'd hear something from somewhere else and he would say that.

So he was always trying to get something from somewhere to try to lead his people in the direction he wanted them to go.

Now put this question up that I'm not sure how to pronounce his name.

Baraka.

I'm not even going to try so I'm bad with pronunciation so forgive me if I mispronounce your name but he or she said says again she.

She.

Okay.

Oh yeah, I see the picture.

Got you again again the separation Islam is not based on hadith.

Shia and Sunni only disagree on who should have led Muslims after Muhammad.

Peace be upon him's death.

And I, I understand what's being said there but, but those two separations do have two separate hadiths, do they not?

So maybe she wants to come in.

Go to apologexlive.com scroll down to the duck icon and join us and, and you can.

We could talk about that maybe.

And I know there's something I haven't been on.

Catch.

All the apologetic jaws and formal faith are going back and forth on the royal we so I, I'm not able to.

There's a lot of comments going on so I'm not catching all of them.

So sorry about that.

One thing I wanted to ask you, you probably know this because your book is really excellent on is the religion of Islam.

Do you know how it's recorded that Muhammad died?

I, I actually forgot but I'm, I have, I have my book up here.

If I was to go and look I probably.

Yeah here I have the death death of Muhammad because I had.

I, I haven't really covered this in, in too too recently with everything.

That's why that's a nice thing of writing things down.

So Muhammad died in 632 at the age of 62.

And one of his earliest followers succeeded him, Abu Bakr.

He consolidated and stabilized the power.

And so let's see, so trying to read through this of what I wrote down for when I studied this out because, because that's not something I often get asked.

But you, you may know offhand, I.

I know kind of a summary offhand.

Muhammad would often quote in the Quran, if I am not a prophet of Allah, may God close my order.

And, you know, he hated Jewish people in the Bible or not in the Bible in the Quran, he ate Jewish people in the Quran.

And he also said that he also was very derogatory toward women.

So after Muhammad had conquered this village, he had killed this woman's father and her brother.

And I think her husband could be wrong about the husband.

But she said, you know what?

You're a great prophet from Allah.

Let me make you, let me make you some roasted lamb.

And so she roasted some lamb and poisoned the lamb leg till it was green.

And he ate it.

And he, after he ate it, he said, I feel God closing my aorta, or I feel closing my aorta.

And so he was killed by a Jewish woman who, he had killed her family.

Yeah.

And I, I, I don't have, I think there's some debate from what I'm looking at, what I had written over that.

So, and I don't remember, I took a couple classes on Islamic history and I just don't recall.

So I, and I don't want to speak if I don't know.

So I'm not 100% sure.

Maybe some of those who are in the chat that our Muslim would like to join and, and help answer that.

Or.

You know, or explain it, because.

That would be handy.

That would be handy.

Yeah.

So, so as we look at their view of, of God, right?

We, we clearly they believe that there's one God.

That's a major issue, right to the fact that they would think that we believe in three gods.

And they would say that, believing that God, that Allah has partnerships, and that partnership would be, as you mentioned, Josiah, with Jesus and Mary his mother, that that would be the unforgivable sin.

And we looked at that last week.

The, the idea where, and you referenced it, the idea in Surah 5, 1 16, where it says, I'll just read you, you had paraphrased it, but it says, and behold, Allah will say, o Jesus, the son of Mary, didst thou say unto men, worship, worship me and my mother as gods in derision of Allah.

So that is where we see, it's their, their understanding.

Okay, so let's see.

Someone is saying portable faith is saying to you, not true again, Josiah, how long after compared to the companion Ra that died instantly?

Stop pretending.

I'm not sure what you're pretending about.

I'm just quoting something from David Wood.

And I, I could be, he could be wrong and I could be wrong for quoting him.

That's why I would like a Muslim to set us straight.

Yeah.

And so Barkaya, if I pronounce that right, says he was not derogatory toward women.

Also, he did not pass away by poisoning.

What is the source for that?

So I, he, he said it was from David Wood.

But I, I, and I was gonna, when you said derogatory toward women, I, I and I said this last week.

If you look at the early years of Muhammad's life, you see that he believed in not just one God, but one wife.

Early on, it was only after his, his wife died, the one who he was who set him free from slavery and married him.

It was only after that then he started taking on multiple wives.

And so when we say derogatory toward women, I don't know that that would always be.

Probably wasn't true his whole life.

Yeah, well, not just not true his whole life.

I would say this is one of the things we have to take into account.

And if you listen to my Rap Report podcast, Pastor Dominic Gamaldi from Street Talk Theology and I are going through Exodus 21, a very difficult passage for some, some because they don't understand the idea of slavery in scripture or at that time.

And so if we look at Muhammad, we have to examine the fact that he was in a culture where it was a male dominated culture.

So if we make the mistake of trying to assume he's because he is of that culture, that he would have to be.

He'd have to be like us today in having the view of women's rights today, that that wouldn't be fair.

Now, Bar Kaira, I'm not sure how to pronounce her name.

Sorry.

But she says Muhammad, peace be upon him, was not a slave.

What's your source for that?

Can we go back to the poisoning thing?

So I just said, well, let me.

Just answer this question quickly.

So I put it up.

My source for that was the two classes I took on Islamic history, One from an American Muslim and one from a Saudi Arabian Muslim.

On top of that, many books I read from Muslims about Islam and Muhammad.

So that would be my source for that.

Go ahead.

So Andrew, I am going to text you a URL.

There's a site called answering-islam.org that that has the source of the.

The poisoning information.

It says here it's from Bukhari's Hadith 5.713, narrated Ibn Abbas.

And in the third and the fourth paragraph, it says here, Narrated Aisha, the prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, quote, oh, Aisha, I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaybar.

And at this time I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison, unquote.

So let me give this to you.

And then I can.

Andrew, wrap apart.

Now.

I again, if any, any of I and I, I appreciate those that are, that are coming in.

Let's see.

Let me.

Because I think I can put that in the comments here.

Yes, let's see.

So for those who are, who are on Facebook and YouTube, you can see that, that link there on.

I will try to keep that, put that into the show.

Notes of the podcast.

I also like to point out something.

Jesse Heller, you may have noticed that I've been kind of furrowing my brow for the last couple minutes here.

I'm watching the chat go by and I'm really kind of disappointed in what I'm seeing.

Jesse Heller makes a great, great point.

He says, preach the gospel, my friends.

So the gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

Folks, our goal here is not to find all the ways that we can poke holes in Islamic theology and their understanding of scripture and everything else.

What they needed here is not how bad of a guy Muhammad was, not, you know, what, not, not what a liar he is, etc.

Etc.

What they need to hear is who Jesus is, what he did.

They need to hear the gospel.

So I'm, I'm kind of, you know, I'm kind of staring at you apologetic jaws.

I mean, I appreciate your zeal, but I see a lot of heat but not a whole lot of light coming from you.

And I don't think it's beneficial.

And I don't think Christ is glorified by having snarky comments going back with formidable faith 560.

So that'd be my two cents.

And, and you know, let's just be fair with it is, you know, sometimes emotions are not easily understood through text, right?

Oh, without a doubt.

But, but yeah, no, I mean that's, and that's why I earlier I, and so, you know, I was focusing on the difference being that we would see that the God of the Bible can be fully just and fully merciful because that is where the gospel is.

So Dan, with that said, what would be some of the core differences we would have with who Jesus is and salvation between us and Israel?

It's the nature of Christ is essential to all of this.

Right.

Jesus says, unless you believe I am, you will die in your sins.

So unless you believe that Jesus is God come in the flesh, he is the one who was promised by all the Old Testament prophets.

He is God in the flesh.

He came, lived a sinless life for roughly 33 years.

He died without ever having committed a sin.

He died on the cross, was buried, he rose again three days later and he ascended into heaven.

I mean, that's the gospel in a nutshell.

And the chief problem with Islam is that they deny the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And because of that, they are like all men who reject Christ, they're bound for hell.

And that should be our utmost concern, is to see that our Muslim friends get to hear who Jesus really is and the things that he said and the things that he did and not a distorted picture of that.

Yeah, so apologetic straws is saying to you there, Dan, how did Elijah handle the priests of baal?

Baal, sir, you are not Elijah and neither am I. Yeah, I would see.

A difference there because Elijah was speaking to Jewish people, the Jewish leaders that knew the Bible and were rejecting it.

So in the sense that they were chosen by God to convey the truth and to be separate from the nations.

And so they had had the truth and were teaching leading Israel astray.

And Elijah was a prophet of God.

So it's, it's a very, I don't, I don't know that we'd want to, I just don't know that I'd want to use that kind of argument.

Right.

Because it's, it's not the same situation as people who are outside of the faith.

Right.

Not saying that all Jewish people were saved, but they were, they were supposed to be of the faith and, and they were going astray versus people that were never in the truth.

So there, there would be a difference, I think there.

Yeah.

When we poke holes in Islam, we're not trying to just one up them.

We're trying to make openings for the gospel message to get in.

Man, you have to do that carefully with like a surgeon, like precision.

And I, I fall short of that sometimes when emotions get involved.

But yeah, and our brother's right here.

We want it.

It is because that Jesus is God.

It's not like he's not another God.

He's not a God separate from the Father.

He is not a God separate from, from the Holy Spirit.

He is a person, a distinct person from the Father and the Holy Spirit.

That's all the same God.

Yes.

Not different gods.

And that's the fundamental misunderstanding of what Muslims say about Jesus and that what Christians teach, Right?

Yes.

I mean, it's that, it's that, you know, that we're called to present the truth.

We're called to present the truth in love.

Remember that the Jesus most stern words were towards the religious, not towards those who were not believers.

Right.

Those are the ones that he really, you know, would really just torque down on because they were leading people astray and, you know, in the name of, you know, under the guise of, of Judaism.

Right.

So the truth, truth in love, man.

The truth is great, but if it's not combined with love, then you're nothing but a resounding gong or a tinkling symbol.

Yeah.

And to the point of the death.

And I see formal faith put this.

And this is what, what I do remember now that we've been just talking about it.

Right.

He says the prophet passed away 3236 32, approximately three to four years after the poisoning incident.

And that I, I believe is what I was taught in the, in the class that I took was that the.

He was poisoned, but that he.

I think it was that he tasted it, not enough to kill him, but enough to get sick.

And he had died some years later.

Now, Fortnite Faith said this.

I appreciate you letting me talk in chat and not just remove, and not just be removed for having a stern opinion.

That is something we do here on Apologetics Live.

We're, we don't want to just toss people because you disagree with us.

We want to engage in dialogue.

That's.

That's what we like to do here.

And I prefer you coming on in and so, because it's always better when.

You can put a face and you could put a voice to the comments.

I mean, because the guy that came in, you know, very, very briefly to state his case, I thought that was beautiful.

He came in, he sought to be understood.

He sought to understand and to be understood.

And he did so in a respectful manner, which unfortunately is not typically what you see when you're communicating via text.

And this is why I usually tell people, like, look, if you're going to have a conversation about serious matters with people, you're not going to do it on Twitter.

You're not going to do it On Facebook, you need to try to do it face to face.

And the closest thing we have here is to get on, you know, turn your camera on, you know, put a face to the name and have a conversation with another human being rather than just treating each other like, you know, we're just, you know, you're just somebody I'm trying to conquer for the kingdom, if you will.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and I've said that I need to duck out because I've been called to dinner, so.

Yes, well, enjoy.

I need to.

I need to go make dinner for my wife too.

You're gonna be all alone.

They're all leaving me.

All right, well, hey, guys.

Thanks for coming in.

Yeah, I appreciate it.

But, you know, to, to, to that point, I'm, I kind of agree with Dan.

I'm bummed that Hamas didn't.

Couldn't stay because I really.

I really wanted to.

To have that conversation.

And that's, that's what I prefer doing here is having dialogues with those who, even if you disagree with me, I'm okay with that.

I'm, I'm good with having that kind of dialogue because I learn.

Hopefully you learn, and we can have better respect for one another understanding of each other.

And so.

But I, I will do some more research on the death of Muhammad because I, There was.

Yeah, I, I, I vaguely remember that he didn't die from the poisoning.

So I'll have to research the article Dan gave as a link there, and I will, I will have to check into that more and, and may be able to report back to you guys.

So the idea of, in that we started to look at, when we talk about the God of Islam, it's clearly going to be a.

Especially in light of all of the myriad of gods that were there in Muhammad's time, he stood out, believing in.

In one God.

Now, let's see.

I want to put.

Let's see some of the comments.

I just, I, I hate mispronouncing names, and I know I'm not pronouncing it right.

Right.

But I'm gonna try, so please again, forgive me.

Baraka says, from my understanding, we both believe the same God and in Jesus as pure, sinless Prof. As pure, sinless prophet.

The difference is that we see him as a messenger, not the son of God.

I wonder why we focus on our differences instead of the value we share, like love and peace.

Okay, I, So I really wish you'd come in so we could have more dialogue, because that's, That's a great, A great thing.

To focus on the.

There is some core differences.

And those differences, I, I would say is the difference between heaven and hell.

It's the difference between the basically being with God in his presence or being punished for all of eternity.

And that's why the differences are important.

Now we can.

We could get together, as I do with many Muslims and many atheists and many people I disagree with, and sit over a meal and talk and, and discuss our differences.

We could do that with, you know, love and charity toward one another and valuing each other as being made in the image of God.

God.

However, the most loving thing that I could do is to explain the difference between the, the Jesus of Islam and the Jesus of the Bible.

Now you make up a good point.

You say a difference that is that Islam would see him, Jesus, as a messenger and not the Son of God.

Let me be a little bit more precise, because Son of God is a title referring to deity.

So it's not just that we believe he's.

He's somehow the offspring of God, but he's actually God.

And the reason that becomes so important is as God, when Christ went to the cross, he paid the punishment that you and I owe for breaking God's law.

So the.

We break God's law, we, we lie, we steal, we covet it, we do things that we can never make up for it.

And when you have, whether you know, you're going to say, well, one good deed counts for 10 bad, or if you're going to say, like Catholicism, where you have to have faith plus works, or in modern Judaism where they say you have to obey the law whenever you have human effort trying to earn a righteousness with God, it shows that we don't really understand how wicked we are and how holy God is.

It's.

It's because God is infinitely holy.

Then we break his law.

It has an eternal consequence.

And so we need someone who's eternal to pay it.

So, and when we look at that, the, the Jesus that we see in scripture is God, who became a man who died in our place, took the full weight of sin upon himself, that we could be set free.

Okay.

And so she asked the question, this is where, like, if you want to come in, it'd be.

It'd be a great discussion.

Just go to politicslive.com and scroll down to where you see how to participate with duck icon and click there.

But it says so.

So, so does this mean his sacrifice absolves us of anything bad we do in life?

Yes.

And that's the difference in In Islam, when you, you say the prayer to become a Muslim, all of your past sins would be forgiven based on what?

Who paid, who paid that consequence?

You.

You, you would be relying on Allah's mercy.

But the payment has to be made or, or God is not just.

And this is where I wish Hamas was, was stayed in so we could dialogue on that.

So I can understand better what he was saying that I, I didn't understand.

So.

But the difference is, is that yes, Jesus absolves that He.

He made the payment so we could be set free.

That's how he could be both just and merciful.

The full payment had to be paid.

And so what we see is that in if, if Jesus was just a prophet, just a human being, then he's a temporal being.

And if he was sinless, on that Baraka, I probably pronounce it like different every time I've said your name.

I'm so sorry.

But the, the thing is, is that if, if he's just a human being, even though a sinless one, as a temporal being, he could never pay an eternal fine.

He'd need to be an eternal being.

And that is why it's so important about we getting Jesus right.

If we.

The.

The reason that it is so important.

And it's not that we're focusing on our differences.

I mean, we are, but those differences are everything.

Okay.

The difference of if, if you get Jesus wrong, you.

You spend eternity in the lake of fire.

And, and I've often said this is that if you, for those who, who want the Quran is very far more descriptive in what the lake of fire is like than the Bible.

It is, it's much more descriptive.

And it is, it is a place of punishment.

And it is the difference between going there or going to, to paradise and being with Christ.

And, and so if, if we want to.

To talk about the things that we've.

That we value and share like love and peace, then, then the most important thing I could do is focus on the differences we have.

That is a difference between heaven and hell.

And, and I'm sure that you would feel the same way.

You would feel that it, if you, if you're a good Muslim, you feel that I can't be right with God without becoming a Muslim, you should want to focus on that difference that we have.

Because if you understand the Quran and you believe that me believing in a triune God is an unpardonable sin.

Well, I guess in that case then there'd be no purpose in actually talking to me because I would Never be able to be forgiven by that.

But if that was, I mean, if you believe that, I would hope that you would want to plead with me to believe in what Islam says.

Because if you're not, if you're not willing to do that, then do you really believe what the Quran says?

Or is it just, well, like Dan was saying earlier, just fighting so that we could prove we're right.

Okay.

I truly believe, and I'm saying this to every Muslim that's in the, in the chat or watching or listening.

Okay?

I truly believe that if you don't get right with Jesus Christ, recognizing him as God, that you will spend eternity in a lake of fire.

And I do not want that for you.

I do not want you spending eternity in a lake of fire.

I want you having eternal life.

And for that reason, yes, I will focus on our differences.

Because in focusing on our differences, hopefully you'll come to know the Jesus of the Bible, the true Jesus.

Okay?

So she goes on to say, from my understanding, payment is made through good deeds, such as giving zarach, which is feeding the poor, giving alms to the poor, things like that.

Although she just mentions feeding the poor and similar acts of charity.

This is exactly my point here is the fact that it's, it's not from doing good deeds.

So think about it this way.

Let's go to a human court, just as an illustration, okay?

If you have a guy who, let's say someone comes into your home, robs your house, and to cover up for his sin, he murders your family, you survive, and he did it to pay for a medical degree so he can give free health care to the poor.

Now is giving free health care to the poor a good thing?

That seems like a good thing, but was murdering your family?

No.

Could he stand before a just judge and say, your honor, I know what I did was wrong, but I had a good deed that I wanted to do with.

Doesn't matter how many good deeds he does, he can't make up for the bad deed he did.

And let me put it this way, and I'm going to focus on our differences a bit, but this again is a difference between Christianity and every man made religion.

And I know that what I just said probably offended you, you, and I don't mean to, but let me prove that out.

I believe there's only two religions in the world, divine and man made.

And I think there's an objective way that we could examine to know if something's man made or divine.

And it really comes down to the Question that Baraka had, had asked, is it by doing good deeds?

What we know about humans throughout all of history is that they, they will praise their own good deeds.

They praise their works.

And so if you want to look at a human religion, it always has human effort in getting right with God.

There's only one religion in the entire world that says we cannot do good deeds to get right with God.

We only get right with God by what God had done on the cross.

That's what makes it different.

So not only is it that if you're believing in a, in a religion, a human religion that's based on good deeds, what you do is have a religion based on morality.

It's, it's a rules based do this, don't do that.

And so what you see there is a system of morality which is why so many people think all religions are the same.

They seem the same because they all teach about morality except for one.

See, in, in Christianity, it is not about doing good deeds to get right with God.

It's doing good deeds because we love God for what he did for us.

It's a motivational change.

And so that's the thing now, now she's saying here, no, murder is wrong in any case.

That's what Islam says.

I get that, but Allah, but, but that's my whole point.

You can't make up for doing any sin by doing good.

That's the whole point.

If, if you break a law, a law that God has and, and we know what the law is by God's nature.

So if, if we violate God's law, we must pay an eternal fine.

We have a punishment.

That's the, the difference that we end up seeing.

Okay, we, we as Christians would see that though many Muslims maybe far more moral in human arguments than, than me.

You know, Baraka might be a more moral person than me.

I, I'm not even going to doubt that.

I, I'm not the best person in the world.

I've.

I sin quite often, but my morality isn't what gets me right with God.

What gets me right with God is what God did on the cross when he paid the fine.

And so, and it's.

It.

I will admit it's hard to keep track of all the comments when they're flying by.

And I'm trying to.

Is why it's much better to, to.

To come in and, and discuss it.

But.

So she's, she puts a quote.

Because of that we decree for children of Israel that whoever kills a soul, unless us in retribution and murder is Corrupt in the land.

It is as if he killed all of mankind.

Okay, so if someone killed, can they ever get right with God?

Because if they do, if Islam's right then yes they should be able to if they do enough good deeds.

But you're saying in my example that that that wouldn't count.

Count.

Right.

And that that becomes the thing.

So I, I hope that that clarifies some, some of that.

I'm probably not going to get much past the, the view of God.

I want to get into.

I did get a little bit of the view of Jesus right That we would see him as God, not, not just a prophet.

I wanted to get in.

We, he touched on it last week on the, the denial of the crucifixion that Islam we, we talked last week that Islam believes that Jesus didn't die on the cross.

It was a lookalike.

Now some, some of the hadiths, I don't, I don't, I, I don't remember it anywhere in the Quran but I remember seeing it mentioned in a hadith that it was Judas.

So one thing I do want to say is as Christians we shouldn't say it that Muslims believe it was Judas on the cross because I don't believe all Muslims believe that.

But the Quran does teach that Jesus did not die on the cross.

That Muhammad sorry that Allah had made made a look alike.

So that, and that's the most concerning thing that I would have have with the Quran is that the, the that the God of, of Islam Allah deceives his own followers.

So how if you believe that that he would deceive his own followers to thinking that this is a look alike on the cross.

How then can you, could you trust that ever because you now have a God that is willing to deceive his own followers.

And, and so that becomes I, I think a very concerning thing.

All right now Affordable faith is asking me to read Ezekiel 18:20-22.

Now I'm not sure the, the context he might have, he or she might have asked a question that I missed.

That's possible.

So let me, let me just read that and see if we could figure out the context.

Formal faith.

You're more than welcome to join by the way.

Just go to apologieslive.com and scroll down to the doc icon.

Join us there.

It would be the best thing to do.

I would appreciate that.

That way we could have a dialogue and I could better understand the question.

But Ezekiel 18 verses 20 to 22.

The person who sins will die.

The son will not bear the punishment for the Father's iniquity, nor the Father bear the punishment for the Son's iniquity.

The righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

But if the wicked man turns from all his sin, which sins which he has committed, and observes all my statutes and practices, practices, justice and righteousness, he will surely live.

He shall not die.

All his transgression which he has committed will not be remembered against him.

Because of his righteousness which he has practiced.

He will live.

Okay, so a couple things with this.

I think Affordable faith is bringing this up for the argument of how can.

How could g in.

I'm sure that though he or she'll correct me in, in the chat that how could Jesus die for someone else?

How could he be a substitute if a father can't be the substitute for a son or son a father?

Well, in this case, you're dealing with father and son in the human sense.

Verse 21 talks about, you'll never die if you can live perfectly.

And that's true.

If you never sin.

Sin, you'll never die.

You'll never face the punishment of sin if you never sin.

The whole point is we can't do that.

There's no human being alive apart from Jesus Christ that never sinned.

And so you are.

You know, when we look at this, we realize that this is God speaking in, in a way of, first off, saying there it's impossible for humans to do that.

And so as we look upon this, we realize also that this is true, that the, the context of this is not speaking in how we get right with God, but it is speaking about the fact that someone shouldn't be punished for something someone else does.

In other words, let's put it in American.

American.

A big thing that we have going on in America is some people feel that, well, there are people who, if you're white, you oppressed blacks in America because of slavery.

Well, my family line was not from America when there was slavery.

We come from Russia and Romania, which never was partaking in the, in the, the Russian slave trade or the, the African slave trade.

And yet there's those who say, well, you're responsible.

Well, I would look at a passage like this, say, no, I. I cannot be responsible for what someone else does.

Even if, even if I was, even if my lineage was here in America and did partake, I mean, say, say someone's the.

From the lineage of Thomas Jefferson who owned slaves, does that mean that someone generations after should have to pay for what Thomas Jefferson did?

Well, no, this passage would say not by the way, Thomas Jefferson was actually against slavery and owned slaves.

Little known fact for it seems for some but Virginia law at the time of Thomas Jefferson made it illegal for him to free slaves.

And so he could not even though you end up seeing he, he ended up having a slave that acted as a wife and having children by them.

And so because they were his children, they were able to be freed upon his death, which actually didn't it.

Yeah but it's just some, some things there.

So, so that's how I would look at that passage there.

Let me do this just quickly.

I know we're, we spend a lot of time with the, with the chat.

I want to see if there's any comments that I missed.

But I should give a, I do want to give an announcement from our sponsors MyPillow.

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So let's do this with a couple minutes unless anyone wants to join in and I wish some, especially some of the Muslims would and join in and.

And so we could dialogue more.

I'm trying to.

Look, I know formal faith has given a.

And.

And this person often does this gives us things to read in the Quran without much context and it.

It does make it hard.

So there's a bunch of those that I just hit star on but I I would prefer you coming in so we could actually dialogue and understand them.

I. I think you had us read the.

You gave this one last week.

We read these verses last week on from Quran from the Quran Surah 5:17, 72:73 and where he said he or she says it condemns the entire world view as you moved into a trinity form through the councils of men.

Men.

And, and the issue is, is understand we didn't move into a trinity form by the councils of men.

The earliest book of the Bible, the first book that is both in the Jewish and the Christian Bible is Genesis.

And right in the third chapter of Genesis you start to see actually in the, in the first chapter you start to see the Trinity.

The, the fact that the, that you have God having a plural name in Hebrew, the fact that God refers to himself in the plural not just by his name, but by his pronouns.

He does that on purpose.

So that is something that you know, actually shows when you, you said it.

The Quran teaches a false view of the Trinity so that right off the bat says that the author of the Quran does not know what the Bible actually teaches and what the, what Christianity actually teaches.

And that, that's the, the issue that I have.

And so if your only knowledge of the Bible is from the, the Quran, you're not going to have an accurate view of what Christianity actually believes.

Now one of the things I've tried to do here, when I'm here talking about any religion, but in this case Islam, I try to be accurate.

You'll see when, if I'm not sure of something, I don't say it.

If there, if I can try to properly present the views that someone else has, I try to do that respectfully and accurately.

It's why when I wrote my book, what do they believe?

I took each of the religions I covered and I went to those that are of that religion and confirmed is this accurate?

It's in fact in Islam.

It's the very reason why I did not systematize Islam using hadiths, but only the Quran.

Because the Quran is what every Muslim would hold to and not every Muslim would hold to the same hadiths.

I want to be accurate to what different groups believe.

And so that's something to, to, to recognize.

Now we see here that formal faith is speaking of the Trinity.

Says the Council of Constantinople in 381 introduced the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Trinity.

Actually no, the third person of the Trinity was being the Holy Spirit.

We see is introduced in the book of Genesis when it says that the Spirit of God created the earth.

And then later in Isaiah it says Jehovah speaking of the Father created the universe, created everything that was created alone without a helper.

So what you see there is you, you kind of can't have both.

And so you have that, you, you have that as a, that you just have to recognize now this is a common question.

I get that.

Barakar barar ha.

I don't know how to pronounce it.

But she's asking why are so many versions of the Bible?

That is like asking, why are there so many versions of the Quran?

And very quickly I am sure she's getting ready to type that there's not many versions of the Quran.

There's one version in Arabic, many translations.

And I'm going to say yes, one version of the Bible, many translations.

And this is a thing I find Muslims do often.

And, and I don't get it because as if, if Christians have translations, those are different versions.

I have right in front of me four different, in my Logos Bible software, four different versions of the Quran in English.

On my shelf, I have four more hard copy.

So I have eight different versions.

And I'm sure she's going to say, no, those are translations.

Correct.

But if you're going to say my English is a, is a version, then I have to say your English is a version.

By the way, if you want to say that there's only one Quran in Arabic, my question for you is, which one?

This is something that Muslims have not done the research on.

Very few at least I think.

But, but they're, I think his name was John street, but in England when I was there, we at Preacher's Corner, you would have, he, he would set up all these Qurans from different areas in Arabic and show the textual criticism, show that there's different versions of the Arabic Quran from, from different areas.

And so.

Okay, good.

She, she is saying here I'm only asking questions to increase my knowledge.

I don't mean to be disrespectful.

Well, I don't mean any disrespect.

I actually didn't think you were being disrespectful at all.

I actually, it's a, it's a question I get commonly.

So I hope that, I hope that the way I answered didn't make it seem like I thought you were being disrespectful.

I didn't think you were.

But it is a common question that we get.

And so that's why I go to the, the English, because we want to, you know, as Hamas.

When he came in, right.

What do you do?

He asked for clarification.

Right.

That's what we want to do.

And that's why I try to, with that question, bring apples to apples.

It would be unfair to say that we have different versions speaking of English, but there's one Quran speaking of Arabic.

When the original Bible was not in English because English didn't exist for, you know, thousands of years, you know, when the Bible was written.

So we have translations and translation you could say is a version.

But, but when the way we are speaking of it, we'd look at the Hebrew, a little bit of Aramaic and Greek and compare that to the Arabic.

That would be the way of, of looking at that.

So let's see, let me try to see what other questions we got that I might be able to answer here.

There was so much back and forth that it is, it is hard for me to, I couldn't capture everything and, and there's some, some people citing different things.

So part of this was some people having conversations.

This is why I do say if you're, if you do want, want watch the show, come in and join live because there's lots of interaction in the chat.

So I'm, I'm probably going to pick this up next week.

I'll look into a little bit more of the, of where we had had started with because I want to give some overview and let me, let me just deal with some of the views of Jesus Christ.

Now as was said in some of the comments in chat, Jesus is seen as being sinless.

Jesus, unlike Muhammad in the Quran does miracles.

And so he's mentioned quite often.

And you end up seeing, I would argue that if you were to look at it, that Jesus does more than even Muhammad because he had a miraculous birth, miraculous death, does miracles where Muhammad didn't have, have things like that.

And so where Muhammad would be seen as a final prophet, I would, I would say even the Quran in a reading of it, that Jesus would be a greater prophet.

Now that is going to rub any Muslim because they're going to disagree because Muhammad would be the greatest prophet.

But I hope, but as you see, the way that I'm trying to say it is, is one has miraculous birth, death does miracles and the other doesn't.

Even if you're going to say both of them are sinless, it just seems like from the Quran that Jesus is greater.

He's, he's mentioned more often.

He's, he's mentioned throughout.

And so, but one of the things that is an issue is, is his, his death that does become an important thing.

Where Islam would see that Jesus is just a prophet like Abraham or Moses or Noah, that he, he was born of a virgin, they would absolutely deny the deity of Christ.

And here's the thing.

If you read through the New Testament, read through the Gospels, half of the Gospels Is Jesus Christ being God?

Jesus has the attribute that's attributes only God has.

He's omniscient.

He, meaning he's all knowing.

He.

He is the creator of the universe.

He created everything that was created.

Only God could do that.

So he can't be a created being.

This is Colossians 1:14 to to 18.

Look at that and you'll see he can't be a created being if he created everything and everything that was created was created by Jesus.

Well, he can't do that and be a created being.

That'd be logically impossible.

Affordable.

Faith is, is asking the question, God willing.

I would like to talk with you.

You have been welcoming doing.

What days do you go live?

Well, you've been here three Thursdays in a row.

So it's.

We go live every Thursday or most Thursdays, I should say.

Sometimes I'm traveling, but we try to go live every Thursday 8 to 10 Eastern Time.

You just go to apologexlive.com and you could join there.

And if, if you want to federal faith, if you want to have.

We could set time aside so that you have, have more time to speak.

We could start you early in the show so that I could devote a full hour because anyone can come and ask anything.

We try to dialogue with the chat, but if, if you come in as a guest, you'd come in.

We devote the first hour to, to really not so much engaging questions outside of what you speak of.

And unless chat, you know, people in chat or people online have specific questions.

And then the second hour we may take some of those if you want just contact me info at SFE Bible Info.

SFE Bible.

You can get a hold of me there.

Just, you know, say, you know, just from there you can email and ask for it to get directed to me and I'll, I'll respond to you.

And so yeah, so that's when we go live.

I would love to talk to you and better understand it's been hard to dialogue.

It is very difficult to dialogue when people are responding in chat and I'm trying to answer it and then a few minutes later they respond back because there is a delay.

What you watch live.

We try to do that as faithfully as we can because we, I want to answer your questions.

That's what we want to do here.

And I want to be respectful even to those who disagree with me or I, who I disagree with.

Right.

So just to wrap up on Islam Zoo Jesus, they would, they would absolutely deny the deity of Christ and, and yet like I was saying, so much of the, of the New Testament focuses on the deity.

In fact, 48% of the Gospels, those first four books in the New Testament is showing Jesus is God by the titles that he has, by the works that he does, his attributes, things like this.

He claimed to be God.

In fact, that is why the Jewish leaders wanted to stone him, because he claimed deity.

And he said to them, for what good works do you stone me?

They knew he knew it wasn't good works, but he wanted them to admit it.

What'd they do?

They said, not for any good works, but you being a man, claim to be God.

So they're saying they're going to stone him for blasphemy because he claimed to be God.

God.

They understood what he was saying.

So this is where you have a dilemma.

If you say the Bible was written by God and the Quran is written by God, they cannot be written by the same God because the Bible says Jesus is God and the Quran says he is not.

Those are mutually exclusive.

You can't have both.

Both.

And so what you end up seeing there is it's got to be one or the other.

Now the Quran's way of kind of addressing that is to say that the Bible was corrupted.

But when we look at manuscripts, we have manuscripts that predate Muhammad and we can look at those manuscripts and look at later manuscripts and say, okay, sorry, but they still teach that Jesus is God.

It wasn't the belief, as some try to say, that the early followers thought he was a man and then over time it morphed into deity.

Because the earliest gospels are explicitly teaching Jesus is God now.

Yes, the later gospel, John does it more so, but that doesn't matter when the earlier ones still argued that Jesus is God.

Okay, and, and I, if, if you look on the, on this channel, you can go and search.

I've dealt with the deity of Christ many times where we, I go through that and maybe eventually I'll get my book out on, on Jesus Christ claims of deity.

One last thing I'm gonna, I'll wrap up with is this issue of the crucifixion.

So I mentioned this earlier, we mentioned it last week.

Islam denies the crucifixion of Jesus and believes that Allah took Jesus from earth and allowed to look alike to be, to be crucified in his place.

And so what you see there is, this is from Surah Chapter Surah 4, verses 160, 156 to 158.

8.

And, and this is what it says that they that's referring to the Jews, that they rejected faith, that they utter against Mary, a grave false charge that they say in boast we killed Christ Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.

But they killed him not, nor crucified him him.

But so it was made to appear to them.

And those who differ therein are full of doubts with no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow.

For of a surety they killed him not nay Allah raised him up to himself.

And Allah is exalted in power wise.

So what you see there is that he didn't, he wasn't crucified as claimed.

And that actually should be very, very concerning.

If Allah made it look like it was Jesus, then he is a deceiver, which is what the Quran Quran actually says that he is a great deceiver receiver.

So, so at least that we could wrap that up next.

It may hopefully next week we'll be able to talk with formal faith who's been in here for a couple weeks now here she says I am in New Zealand now.

Friday for me.

I, I will God willing email you today.

Thank you.

And so yeah, I look forward to that.

I hope hope you will.

So we could, we could dialogue and, and get that set up.

That would be good.

We could talk through some different topics so we could be more focused on, on discussion.

That would be really good to do.

And I do appreciate as I started the show mentioning all of the, the places that this podcast has reached, like what was it the top 13 in different countries, top one in some countries in Christianity or the religion category.

So we, we appreciate that.

And so it's just a, it's very humbling to think that here I am sitting in, in America in New Jersey and there are those of you around the world who are watching and listening both the YouTube version, but then also more, so many more on the podcast version.

So I'm very humbled by that, very grateful for that.

So with that I'm going to close out the show with making some announcements.

I I mentioned last week some of the speaking events, the, I mentioned the Oklahoma trip that actually got canceled the weekend that they planned, the Built to Conquer conference.

They're seeing there's another bigger conference not far and the weekend before there's another conference in that same area all within like an hour, two hours drive.

So they canceled the con, that cross conference this year.

They're going to look to redo it next year and hopefully have that to be something that they find a different time.

So it's not in their conference season.

But I will let you know that if you are in the Pennsylvania area, in Levittown, Pennsylvania, my home church, Oxford Valley Chapel is planning to have Hearts for the Lost and Striving Fraternity.

Both come out and we're going to be doing an evangelism training together.

That will be April 17th, which is a Friday night, and also April 18th, which is a Saturday.

And afterwards we're going to go and do some evangelism which will be fun.

May 1st to the 3rd I will be at the Truth Conference.

You can go to the Truth Fellowship.

I check it if that's.org or.com hold on on let me check just to make sure.

It is the just the truth fellowship.org if you go to the truth fellowship.org you will be able to get details of that conference that is May 1st and 2nd that is put on by the Truth Fellowship.

I am on the board there.

So just some events that we do have coming up soon.

I encourage you you to check those out and if you're in the area, if you if you do go to a conference where I am at, I would you kindly come up and let me know that you listen on the podcast or follow me here on Apologetics Live.

It is greatly encouraging to me when you do that.

And so next week hopefully formal faith will be here.

We can have a great discussion.

If not not.

I will pick up where I left off in looking at the view of salvation is in Islam and the key differences.

We we covered some of the differences here tonight and a little bit of the the salvation.

So I kind of hit most of the things I wanted in my in my notes, but not everything.

So hopefully we will cover that more next week and just want to go as I always do when closing out the show is to encourage you to strive to make today an eternal day for the glory of God.

And we will see you next time.

Have a great night.