Marvin: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Flower,

Marvin: back with another East Tennessee Fishing Report with Ellis Ward. Ellis, how are you?

Ellis: Hanging in there, Marv. How are you?

Marvin: Yeah, I get the feeling maybe your cup has run a thing over.

Ellis: Yes, but not all bad things.

Marvin: Yeah.

Ellis: Sometimes bedtime's just a little more challenging. Sometimes it's a little

Ellis: windier, but that's what tomorrow's for. Yeah.

Marvin: And so, you know, it's interesting. We were talking before we started recording

Marvin: and, you know, it's kind of interesting.

Marvin: I think in general in the Southeast, we've had what I would consider to be more

Marvin: of a traditional spring where it didn't become 100 degrees and with a ton of

Marvin: rain and then get cold again.

Marvin: And so we've kind of had a kind of a damp, camp, relatively cool spring,

Marvin: but the weather's kind of been all over the place.

Marvin: So, you know, in Tennessee, just like here in the Carolinas,

Marvin: you know, up in the 80s, now you got lows in the 30s.

Marvin: And that generally kind of, you know, puts things in a funk, right?

Ellis: Look at that. Generally speaking, I would say it puts things in a funk.

Ellis: I really do like to find the exception to some of those rules.

Ellis: And I think that the nature of a tailwater or of two tailwaters fed by 200 plus,

Ellis: 300 foot deep lakes being insulated the way that they are,

Ellis: having the population densities and certain sections of the river that really

Ellis: don't have much traffic on certain flows and times of day.

Ellis: I've been, I felt good about finding the exception to that generally.

Ellis: You know, this variability and lack of any consistency creates tough fishing.

Ellis: But, man, it's day to day. And we've had, I've had days that,

Ellis: you know, our first three or four hours are top-notch fishing.

Ellis: Had some new guys come.

Ellis: In the boat and a

Ellis: guy boated a high teens brown on uh

Ellis: on a swim bug in his

Ellis: first 10 15 minutes of streamer fishing both got

Ellis: a number on yeah um picked

Ellis: off a few on dry flies in the first couple hours and then the remainder of the

Ellis: trip you know they they were really dead set on And we had talked about this

Ellis: for quite some time on sort of tuning in their dry fly fishing and tying and

Ellis: presentations and casting all this.

Ellis: And we didn't see a rising fish for hours.

Ellis: And that can happen if you're just floating.

Ellis: But when I'm burning through sections and going to the spots,

Ellis: And it's just been, it's been funky enough.

Ellis: I think with those quote unquote bad times, there really have been,

Ellis: you know, the spike in barometer up, blue skies, wind,

Ellis: just the right mix of tough conditions to make things.

Ellis: You should definitely be getting out in the first unless you're doing dawn to

Ellis: dusk you should be picking one

Ellis: of those low light times getting out on the water because that might be it.

Marvin: Yeah. And, you know, just to kind of help folks understand, so when you get

Marvin: a lot of temperature fluctuations, even if you're on a tailwater,

Marvin: it generally makes the fish cranky, right?

Marvin: Certainly in the shallow water has a negative impact on bait fish.

Marvin: You know, what else can you kind of share with folks to kind of help them?

Marvin: You know, they don't want to go to work and they want to fish,

Marvin: so they got to make something happen.

Ellis: Happen yeah so i would say

Ellis: some rules of

Ellis: thumb is as as

Ellis: things get tougher for fishing in general just

Ellis: tune down your presentations a little bit um there's a reason that my my go-to

Ellis: fly for low and clear on some bad condition days it you know isn't fishing an

Ellis: eight inch crafty changer,

Ellis: and hoping that a two-foot brown erupts on it um i'm probably fishing for trout specifically some,

Ellis: faster generally speaking faster water which is just to say there's there's

Ellis: a little more copper for fish.

Ellis: I'm still targeting the slower water, but it's adjacent to faster water.

Ellis: I'm not necessarily going in that frog water as much.

Ellis: And, you know, smallies.

Ellis: They can be a little more temperamental.

Ellis: And, you know, there could be some selection bias around here,

Ellis: I think, because they tend to be more in and freestones.

Ellis: And when they're not, when they're in some of the rivers that are more tailwater

Ellis: in nature and less freestone in nature, they're still getting a lot of insulation.

Ellis: There's still shad moving around. It's not as subject to all of the environmental

Ellis: changes, But everything slows down,

Ellis: and they don't need as many calories.

Ellis: The entire food chain slows down.

Ellis: And so, yeah, trying to get that pre-spawn smallie to swim all the way through

Ellis: a big changer up to your rod tip,

Ellis: when it's already sort of mass, is Cree Swan, are we towards the end of it?

Ellis: And again, I would say it depends on which watershed you're fishing.

Ellis: If that's not had, if it's not a fishy day, right?

Ellis: If it's not a little overcast, if it's not a flat or fallen barometer and you have clear water.

Ellis: I i would i would say it can be boring um you know maybe maybe throw in the

Ellis: fun stuff every once in a while but i've slow rolled i mean real like slow tap

Ellis: tap tap on an intermediate sink,

Ellis: little um each and i clouser the day after in picking up fish on them when they're

Ellis: not hitting anything with a, as I call it, a ladder presentation.

Ellis: The day after, I was watching a nice smallmouth eat flies, appropriately sized

Ellis: for pre-spawn smallie fishing.

Ellis: And the next day, we got hit with one of these low 34, 35 frost warnings when

Ellis: three or four days prior, it was...

Ellis: You're basically feeling like a warm summer day.

Ellis: So I'll pull back a little bit there. I know all over the place,

Ellis: just like our fishing weather.

Marvin: Yeah, but I guess, you know, using like a less heavily weighted clouser or,

Marvin: you know, I'd imagine, right, like maybe fishing like something that hovers

Marvin: a little bit more like a hover changer.

Marvin: You're really just trying to kind of tone down the, you know,

Marvin: it's not some, you know, you're not going to get fish ripping flies from the bank, right? Right.

Ellis: Yes. And thank you for bringing you back to that one.

Ellis: Doing stuff that can achieve more of the byte triggers in a smaller window of space.

Ellis: So said another way, you're able to keep the presentation there longer as opposed

Ellis: to relying on that chase.

Ellis: Chase and you know so

Ellis: a lot of this stuff is me about to

Ellis: start telling stories that i've repeated to myself enough to believe but is

Ellis: it curiosity is it because their uh metabolism slowed down is it is it small

Ellis: enough to be less threatening uh you know the caloric expenditure of attacking and And, you know,

Ellis: maybe having a little bit of a battle with something small isn't going to be

Ellis: the same thing for attacking and having a problem with trying to eat an 8-inch

Ellis: fish when you're a 14-inch fish.

Ellis: Um but yeah you know toning down

Ellis: to to some of those even the the micro changers you

Ellis: know the two and a half three inch finesse changer type things yeah b-chain

Ellis: or those I think there's some plastic um I forget who makes them wops wops you

Ellis: might make them but some plastic dumbbell eyes and you.

Ellis: Yeah, bucktail, box, craft furrows, but something to hang a little bit and stay

Ellis: in the kill zone as opposed to falling down, getting into rocks or staying too close to the surface,

Ellis: which is also where having intermediate line and just knowing what to do in

Ellis: different situations as opposed to always throwing 300 grain,

Ellis: you know, big flies and ripping it back.

Ellis: Um it's just it's not always how they eat yeah.

Marvin: It sounds too like you might need some stack men's in there right.

Ellis: Um yeah you know i would say that depends on your philosophy of,

Ellis: of fishing for a small mouth and for trout um i i think when you really start toning down,

Ellis: your your presentations it can be pretty tough to get the the full pop out kill the full,

Ellis: dead stop moving with the current and you know with some of those smaller flies.

Ellis: I don't know this is really contradictory to a lot of the stuff that I normally

Ellis: do and things I normally say, but some of those smaller flies just real slow

Ellis: rolling, you know, crapper, sparsely tied bucktail, fox.

Ellis: If the bite trigger is not the pop, pop, kill, hover above, you know,

Ellis: shoot from the belly, and it's just more of a, huh, what's that?

Ellis: I'm going to go see what that is. and you got something just consistently moving.

Ellis: Seeing it with Striper and Trout a little more so,

Ellis: you know, fishing with the idea in mind of trying to match that flow down shad,

Ellis: but no reason not to employ it for smallmouth.

Marvin: Yeah, got it. And I guess too, you know, I guess one of the other things to

Marvin: remember is, you know, you're going to have to, you know, if you're on the sticks

Marvin: and you've got any flow, you're going to have to, you know, one,

Marvin: you're going to want to really think about where you put the fly, right?

Marvin: Because you've got to manage that pretty well. But also, two,

Marvin: whoever's on the sticks is going to probably be back rowing a fair amount.

Ellis: Yeah, that's another...

Ellis: I'm not going to say tough one, but I've come to appreciate my knowledge in

Ellis: where to put people when and how quickly relative to current speed and bank position.

Ellis: And, man, that's a big part of it.

Ellis: And I think I overlooked that and I can be pretty tough,

Ellis: to I can be tough on myself to the point of not self-promoting but it's this

Ellis: last start to this season sort of in the last year it's,

Ellis: putting your guy in the right place some of these casts that happen they don't

Ellis: happen in the presentation that happens it's fly selection

Ellis: it's what rod they're fishing it's some of these tweaks that we've gone through

Ellis: that allow them to get some of these presentations and yeah it's it's where

Ellis: the boat is and how fast i'm moving relative to the current and.

Ellis: You have to change that it's constant dude i don't i am rowing,

Ellis: my arms are moving they're on the oars 100 of the time when we're moving um

Ellis: you know and we very rarely stop,

Ellis: and and park for very long so it's having an understanding of of what to do

Ellis: and when is also i think if you're out fun fishing man if you're the one fishing,

Ellis: that that dude rowing might not be doing the right thing and,

Ellis: And heck, I would hope that he or she, if you're fishing with him or her,

Ellis: would be the type to take some constructive feedback.

Ellis: And if you need to get closer to the bank to get the right presentation, then...

Ellis: You know people people like to get better and stuff so um the

Ellis: the angler really should be

Ellis: the one to say hey yeah you know this is i'm not

Ellis: able to do x y or z and then yeah

Ellis: if you're fishing with the guide it's it's very much on them to be it for as

Ellis: much as one can there's some times when you just have to be out of position

Ellis: have you in the right spot at all times it's just otherwise Otherwise,

Ellis: you may as well just be floating down the middle of the river.

Marvin: Yeah, I guess my suggestion would be to save your friendship and call a guide like Ellis.

Marvin: That would be.

Ellis: You can both come and I can provide couples therapy.

Marvin: Yeah, dude, I've had some experiences with that, you know, where one person

Marvin: can row, one person can't.

Marvin: And, you know, if you're fishing, you know, try one, trying to be serious about

Marvin: it, but also to your point, I mean, it makes a huge difference,

Marvin: you know, particularly if you've got adverse water conditions.

Marvin: And, you know, that's why I generally, when I fish with people,

Marvin: I was like, dude, let's just get a guide. Like, you know, we'll flip a coin.

Ellis: Yeah.

Marvin: We'll decide when we're going to switch, but it's going to be a much better

Marvin: day. And we're gonna have a much better dinner conversation if we just,

Marvin: uh, call somebody like Ellis. That's my thought.

Ellis: Yeah. You'll actually have dinner together.

Marvin: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, folks, we love questions on the Articulate

Marvin: Fly. You can email them to us or DM us on social media, whatever's easiest for you.

Marvin: If we use your question, I will send you some Articulate Fly swag,

Marvin: and we're going to enter a drawing for some cool stuff from Ellis at the end of the season.

Marvin: And, you know, we know from last time that Ellis has got a few leftover bucktails.

Marvin: And remember, we've got a great community that we host on Patreon, and we have two tiers.

Marvin: You know, one is a $100 annual guide credit with Ellis, And the other is 10% off bucktails.

Marvin: So if either of those work for you, you should check it out.

Marvin: Links are in the show notes.

Marvin: And Ellis, you want to let folks know where they can find you,

Marvin: book you, and fish with you?

Ellis: Yeah, website is elliswardflies.com. And Instagram is at elliswardguides.

Ellis: Best way to reach out, ask about dates, just to call me and or text me at 513-543-0019.

Marvin: Yeah, well, there you go. And folks, all that stuff's in the show notes too.

Marvin: So, you know, I know it's kind of funky, but I think any day on the water is

Marvin: better than any day in the office. So you owe it to yourself to get out there and catch a few.

Marvin: Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Ellis.

Ellis: Appreciate it, Marv.