Welcome to season three of MTE's Plugged in podcast.

This season we will continue to explore the world of electric vehicles.

Whether you're a seasoned EV driver or you're just beginning your journey into electric vehicles, this podcast is for you.

For a more enhanced experience, be sure to watch the video version of this podcast that will be linked in the show notes.

Hello everybody and welcome to MTE's Plugged in podcast.

I'm Amy Byers and as always, I'm here with Brandon Wagner.

Hey Amy.

And hello everybody and welcome to the MTE Plugged In Podcast.

In today's episode, we're going to talk about a topic that many of you have brought up to us.

It's the difference between battery EVs and plug in hybrids.

And as a resource for us Today, we've asked Mr.

Steve Griffin, an EV car club member and an owner of both a battery EV and a plug in hybrid, to come share his experience with us and help us learn a little bit more about this.

Steve, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you.

It's my pleasure.

This is not your first time on the podcast.

No, it's not.

No, it's not.

You were one of our featured cars that we talked to at the Supercharged EV event last year when we were in Franklin.

So we have talked with you before about your Mustang and now we have kind of brought you back in because you know, you have that habard now, so we want to get into that.

But before we get into your, you know, your all electric versus your hybrid car, let's learn about Steve.

So tell us a little bit about yourself.

Well, I was born in Evanston, Illinois, spent the first 10 years in Evansville, Indiana and then moved up to Wheaton, Illinois, which is a western suburb of Chicago.

I went to University of Illinois in Champaign, Urbana, and then on to dental school at the University of Illinois in Chicago.

Went into the Navy after graduating where I served in Great Lakes Naval Training center and on the island of Guam.

When I returned, I took a position with a group in Elmhurst, Illinois, which is another western suburb of Chicago.

I practiced there for 34 years and during that time we got it was a fairly large group.

We got interested in purchasing some other practices so I went and got an MBA degree at night and used that to help with that effort.

And then in 2004 I retired, moved to Fairhope, Alabama and then after 11 years we decided we wanted to get closer to our daughter in Chicago, Illinois and we came halfway back.

We're known as Halfbacks and so it made it easier for her to travel to us and also for us to travel to our other daughters, one of which is in Raleigh Durham area and the third one is in France.

Oh wow.

So I have a lovely wife and we live in Thompson Station, Tennessee.

Well, great.

So as I mentioned earlier, we had interviewed you to talk about your Mustang Mach E.

Was that your first electric vehicle?

It was when we moved to Tennessee.

After a while we decided that perhaps we didn't need two cars.

So we gave our second car to our daughter who lives in Raleigh Durham.

And about a week or two later we found that we had multiple appointments where we needed two cars to get to.

So I said, well, we're going to get another car.

So I was kind of interested in EVs because my son in law and daughter in France had at least a Tesla Model X and I had experience riding in that and driving it.

So I started doing some research and initially I was interested in the Ioniq 5, but they weren't being sold in Tennessee at the time because of the ZEV mandate.

And so I happened to stumble across the Mustang Mach E.

I got interested in that, got on the forum and talked to a dealer and ultimately ordered one.

He was very helpful in that regard.

And then 10 months later I got the car.

So it was a long process and during that time I did a lot of research and learned a great deal.

Well, I.

And I may be wrong about this, Brandon, you may have to correct me, but I think you were one of our first members of the car club.

Is that right?

I think so.

You jumped on the car club, you know, bandwagon pretty early.

So that's where I got some of my knowledge base while I was waiting 10 months for the car.

So you were a member of the car club before you got your car?

Okay.

Yeah.

And in fact, I think I conversed with somebody regarding the benefits of installing an EBSE at home and whatnot.

Might even have been new.

Brandon, I can't remember.

And I think you came to our Murfreesboro.

That was before you had your Mustang, correct?

Yeah, I talked to Robert White quite a bit there.

Yeah.

And he's on his second Mustang now.

I saw him at the last event and it was interesting.

Now recently you shared with me that your wife got a new vehicle and it wasn't a total battery ev, but as Amy mentioned, it was like a plug in hybrid.

Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Yeah, we had a larger SUV and for one reason or another it came to be where we weren't Going to need that to haul children and grandchildren around who were visiting for one reason or another.

And so we looked to get sort of a smaller vehicle.

And since I already had the Ford and we had the evse, I thought a plug in hybrid would be ideal for her.

And so we bought a Ford Escape or ordered one and again took several months before we got it.

It's worked out very well.

She puts most of her miles on that car on electric.

As you probably know, most people on average drive 25 miles a day.

And so the, that car serves her well and also serves us well when.

We travel longer than when you're going to visit your daughter.

You're taking the plug in hybrid?

I do.

I wasn't real confident, even though others have done it a lot to take the all electric.

But now, particularly since Ford and others have given us the adapter for the Tesla superchargers now, I wouldn't hesitate to do that for, for the time being we travel with that car.

And you talked a little bit about your motivation was somewhat traveling, but also that you had the EVSE at home.

So I don't know a whole lot about the hybrid.

So does it use the Same, I guess, J17, same connector?

Right.

Okay.

And it's obviously a smaller battery.

The range on that particular vehicle is 37 miles, weather permitting.

You know, it's very handy for that regard.

Typically she drives almost every day somewhere and so we charge it every day to some degree or another.

Mine is maybe every week or two.

So when you're going on a trip then where like with a regular EV you can go 200, 250 miles.

If with the hybrid, then you're really only getting out of town.

And then if you can only go, what did you say, 37 miles, then you're switching to the gas.

So it's really, the hybrid is really just your.

Around town.

Because once you, once you're out of town, you're all gas.

That's right.

Is that what you're saying?

That's right.

It has basically three settings.

You can run it just on electric and then it automatically switches.

Or you can run it, you can set it to save the electric so that you run on gas.

And then whenever you want to, it'll run on electric, which.

And then you can also charge it like a regular hybrid while you're, while you're driving, which that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but from what that means.

Well, I was fixing to ask that because I know we had at the utility we had A escape.

When they first came out, it was just a hybrid.

So it wasn't plugging, it was just hybrid.

And that's what it would do.

As you drove, it was charging, I guess, the battery.

So on the plugins you have that option, but you're saying you don't really use it, you just plug it in at night, let her go around town and then when you go on trips, just fill up the gas.

Yeah.

If you're on a long trip, you're not going to be using the electric anyway and otherwise you're just using.

You're getting worse mileage running on gas if you're charging at the same time.

How do the cost of purchasing and maintaining the EV compared to that of the hybrid?

The ev, the maintenance is very, almost nil.

Basically change the tires or rotate the tires or change the tires.

The brakes, almost never because it has the regenerative braking in it and so it doesn't really wear down the brake pads very easily.

The plug in hybrid, of course, you've got the best and the worst of both worlds and that you need to do maintenance just like a any other gasoline vehicle.

However, ours I did some Almost, I think 90% of our mileage on that car has been on electric.

So the only time we're running it on gas, almost the only time is when we're on a trip.

And so that lowers the need for any additional maintenance.

Can you go longer between like the oil changes because you're not putting as many miles on it in the gas.

To the extent that within a certain time period you need to change the oil on the vehicle?

Yeah.

Okay, well, have you noticed any differences in your electricity or your fuel expenses between the two types?

Which I guess would be the obvious.

If you're going on a trip, you're going to be paying for some gas.

Well, I did some research before I came over and I found that with the help of the mte, I was able to determine how much on average we spend on gas and how much we spend on electric just for the electric vehicles.

And we average $10 a month for both vehicles together for electric and $11 a month for gas.

But that excludes any trips that we went on.

So have you noticed any performance and driving experiences between the EV and the plug in hybrid?

I know that on the EV everyone loves to get you in the car and slam on the gas and you're like plastered to the backseat.

But can you do that with a hybrid or, you know, what's the driving experience?

Not quite as much.

You know, the Mustang and most of those are performance vehicles, I would say.

And the Mach E that I have is the second slowest one or second to the slowest one, I should say.

But it's plenty fast enough for me.

The hybrid, it's got enough acceleration for our tastes and even with the gas and the electric, both of those are adequate.

But it's nothing like driving the Mach E.

But it's an easy drive.

I would have preferred probably a different vehicle than the one I bought.

However, I got the Escape because it had similar user, the UI was similar and whatnot, and all the features were similar to operate and I thought it'd be easier for my wife.

So any more, anything that I've not asked that you've experienced between the two vehicles?

Well, the interesting thing for me when I switch is that because I drive with the one pedal driving, which is the regenerative braking, and I've seldom put my foot on the brake unless I misjudge the distance between where I want to stop and where I wind up.

But when I get in the other car, it doesn't have that.

And so I'm.

I take my foot off the gas waiting for it to stop and it keeps going.

So that takes some adjusting when I first get in the car.

But other than that, they drive very similar.

One of the things that people like about EVs is they're very techy.

And the Mustang has an app.

This is a question, I guess it's kind of specific to the Escape, but is there an app?

Are there some technical technological advantages to a hybrid Escape versus a traditional Escape?

It's got, it's.

Again, it's a hybrid.

So it's got some features that.

Technical features that apply to the electrical part of the vehicle and then others that apply to the gas vehicle.

But they're common features that are found on a lot of cars.

So.

But the user interface, actually there are some advantages to the Escape over the Mach E.

So it's.

Yeah.

In terms of things you might do on a daily basis with the, with.

The app range anxiety is a.

Is an issue for a lot of folks that are maybe thinking about an ev, but it's there.

And one thing that's interesting is I think when I talk to folks that are nervous about that a hybrid is a great compromise for them.

But in your situation, I think it's.

I've met several people that got a hybrid first and then got a battery ev.

In your situation, you had a battery EV and then added a hybrid.

So I'm Just kind of curious if you would speak a little bit to, and you did a little bit with the traveling and that sort of thing, but range anxiety and maybe some things that the hybrid might have that would people need to kind of think through if they're, if they're trying to decide if they want to go full battery, EV or hybrid.

When I bought the Mustang, my, even though I spent a lot of time on the Mach E forum and it's got a wealth of information from a lot of very knowledgeable people, engineers and so forth.

And so I learned a lot.

But when I got my Mach E, I wasn't interested in using that necessarily for longer trips, even though I thought about it.

But as I spent more time on the fort and found some of the problems with our current national network, I thought, well, that may not be a great idea.

And actually I have never charged a public charger with that car because I really never needed to.

And so when we went to consider the second car, it was sort of the best of both worlds in that my wife could use the car and we could reduce our bill, even though long term, at my age it probably wasn't cost effective.

It turns out that our bills are much lower and we don't spend as much time on gas and we don't have as much maintenance.

And I would say that if a person is considering one or the other, if they're just going to use the car for local driving and running errands and so forth, commuting short distance to work, then the EV is the way to go.

There's no reason to have the gasoline engine along with that.

But if you're going to use it for longer trips, even with the Tesla adapter, there's still a lot of planning involved.

And of course it takes, despite what some people might say, you're still, your stops are going to be longer to charge than they would be to fill up with gas.

And so that would be more in line with using it for travel, the hybrid or the plug in hybrid.

Some utility companies have really great incentives to install EVSEs in the home and some don't throughout the country.

And it's kind of interesting to see how that varies from area to area.

Speaking of incentives, I know I get calls a lot from people asking what's the current tax credits that are out there?

I'm a little more knowledgeable on the battery side, but were you aware of any tax credits for the hybrid when you made your purchase?

The Mustang at that time we got 7500 and the escape.

It's sort of interesting because they passed the new laws and they went into effect in March of 23 or maybe April 1st of 23, and we closed on our car two days before the new laws went into effect.

So we've got $6,843 tax credit.

Yeah.

So what car did you drive here today?

Mustang.

Sure.

I drive that whenever I can.

It's so much fun to drive.

So you mentioned some misinformation about hybrids and battery EVs that came to your mind when we were talking about doing the podcast.

Can you share a little bit about that?

Yeah, it's always kind of funny on one hand, but also discouraging to see all the misinformation that's out there, particularly concerning EVs.

It's been highly politicized, but whether it's issue of EVs are so heavy they're causing parking garages to collapse, or they're so heavy that they're polluting the highways with tire dust, even though the most popular vehicle, I think, sold in the US type of vehicle is a pickup truck, which is, on average, is as heavy as the average EV is, or heavier.

And, you know, just, it goes on and on and on.

They're so prone to fires, even though there's 50 times more fires in gasoline vehicles per 100,000 cars than there are in EVs.

I was standing in line at the county clerk's office getting my registration done and struck up a conversation with a Tesla owner who was in the line that was snaking throughout the room.

And we were talking about all the things we loved about our cars.

And suddenly this man behind me chimed in and said, well, why do you have to buy a new battery in two years?

You know, you just want to slap your head and say, well, it's either.

It's either a lot of EV hate, which is not really understandable, or ignorance.

And it's unfortunate that it's been so politicized.

Yeah, we Try to say EVs are fun and our car club is about having fun.

And so it's pretty neat to see such a group of people bonding around just a common interest.

And so that's why we like having you on and some of the guests we have, because we want to be a resource for folks, because we try to tell everyone we're not really pro EV or anti EV.

We're just, we feel like EVs are coming, we're trying to learn about them and give people access to some good resources.

And I want to say just a big thank you to you for being a big part of the car club for a long time since we started it.

You're always very quick to encourage Amy and I and we're very appreciative to that as well.

Well, thank you.

And I, I've enjoyed my time in the club and I learned a lot.

And the nice thing I think about the club is no, with maybe a few exceptions, nobody's all about their own car.

Everybody is interested in everybody's car.

There's no my car is better than your car type of thing.

And so it's always a pleasure to talk to those people.

It's just nice being around with people that are as passionate about this topic as you are.

And I think that's what we saw at our car club event this year is just every year it seems to ramp up a little bit.

We get more people there and more people that are just want to talk to everybody and see what everybody else is doing with their ev.

So it's a great thing.

So again, as Brandon said, thank you so much for joining us today and thanks everyone out there who is listening.

If you have any questions about MTEs, EV Ready, program, night, flex rate or anything EV related, email us at evcarclubte.com and for more information on MTE's Drive EV programs or the EV Car Club, visit driveev.com or email us@evcarclubte.com and until next time, plug in, power up and drive safe.