Nathan Wood (00:00)

So we've got a special guest for this episode, which we're very excited about. But before we introduce him, we've got some more questions from viewers and listeners, which we'd like to answer first. So Briony what's the first question that we've got?

Briony Brock (00:16)

So the first question comes from Will from Mobberley Cricket Club. Will says, I'm just reading Stuart Broad's autobiography, broadly speaking, and it's well documented that Stuart Broad had David Warner's number. Were there any bowlers that had your number? If so, were you able to combat it and how did you do this?

Nathan Wood (00:39)

So I actually know Will or Walter as he's more commonly known because he plays for my local cricket club, Mobberley And he's a very talented wicket keeper and also a good bat. So thanks Walt for sending that question in. The quick answer, I guess, is any medium paced dobber who was bowling to me on a slow sticky wicket, I'd say they all had my number, Will. And the truth is that...

Although I was able to occupy the crease against them never actually worked out a way of dominating them. So I don't really have an answer for how to do it from a personal experience. However, I do think, Briony that's a really good topic to explore in a future episode. Because we have come across a number of players at Cricket Mind who've said that they've struggled.

Briony Brock (01:31)

Yes.

Nathan Wood (01:35)

batting against a particular bowler or a particular type of bowler. So what do think? Shall we discuss this in another episode?

Briony Brock (01:42)

Definitely we have, you know, it's that kind of anticipation of an expectation of what that bowler might be like. And yeah, I definitely think that could be a great topic for a future episode.

Nathan Wood (01:53)

Okay. thanks, Will. Thanks, Walter. ⁓ whatever you go by. So the next question is from Martin in South London. And his question is this, if someone wants mindset coaching, does it need to be every week or can just a few sessions be helpful? I think my daughter would benefit from a bit of support, but can't afford weekly. What do you suggest? So, Briony, what do you think?

Briony Brock (02:18)

It's

a good question and I think some people can maybe be put off from engaging with this kind of support because it does feel intimidating and you think, ⁓ once I'm in, am I going to have to do it for every week? But I'd say it's similar to sort of having one-to-ones with any technical skill as well. Yes, you can have them every week through the year and there is potential value in that, but it's not remotely necessary to be happy, to be fulfilled, to be successful.

⁓ so we, you know, through Cricket Mind have a range of packages. You can sort of buy five and then spread them out. ⁓ which can be a really good way of doing it. Just the odd session, a couple, you know, can be really, really beneficial to sort of dip your toe in the water. And, and some people find that they want them more frequently from there. And some people find that actually they they're done for a bit and they can revisit it later on. So I really wouldn't let you put.

let that put you off. And I would say, yeah, just start with a session or a package and see how you go from there.

Nathan Wood (03:21)

Great, yep, fully agree with that. Thanks for that, Martin.

Briony Brock (03:24)

Yeah, thank you. So one more question, which comes from Lucy in Sussex. Can too many winter nets be harmful for a batter? I heard a pro saying they don't do that many nets in the preseason because it doesn't replicate a match particularly well. So instead they do a lot of gym work, functional fitness activities and some technical work. Does there come a point where you're over trained in the nets and so actually underprepared for the demands of a game?

Nathan Wood (03:52)

Okay, very good question. The short answer is yes. Too many winter nets can be unhelpful. So the main issue is that nets don't replicate the game that well. There's no scoreboard pressure. There's no consequence to getting out. And often there's very little decision making involved. if you, you you can end up being a really good batter in the nets without actually

being well prepared for batting in games. And I think that's why a lot of experienced players, they tend to focus on quality rather than quantity. So nets are still important, Lucy, but you know, if winter training becomes an endless and repetitive series of sessions with no clear purpose or intention, then yes, there is a danger. You can be overtrained in the nets and underprepared.

for the demands of the game. Don't think we've got any more, Briony. Is that right? Okay, we'll keep them rolling in. Shall we get into the show?

Briony Brock (04:56)

No, I think that's all.

Yes, let's.

Nathan Wood (05:16)

Okay, welcome to the Cricket Mind podcast, the show that explores the mental side of cricket and the things that really shape performance. I'm Nathan Wood.

Briony Brock (05:27)

and I'm Briony Brock.

Nathan Wood (05:29)

And today we're delighted to be joined by fast bowling guru, Ian Pont who is our first guest on the pod. So welcome to the show, Ian.

Ian (05:41)

Thanks Nathan, thanks Briony, nice to meet you both.

Nathan Wood (05:44)

So for those of you who don't know much about Ian, he's got an incredibly fascinating background in cricket and many things outside of cricket actually, which includes being a former ⁓ fast bowler in England and South Africa, Notts and Essex in England, I think, and Natal in South Africa. And he's also ventured into the world of baseball and javelin throwing, believe it or not.

But he's now best known for being a highly respected fast bowling coach who's worked with several counties, Essex and Northants And he's also coached at international level, which has included three World Cups. And currently he's the founder and head coach of the National Fast Bowling Academy, which is based at the Hertfordshire and Essex Cricket Centre. So he's got a highly impressive CV, but I don't want to start with any of that Ian.

Ian (06:43)

Ha!

Nathan Wood (06:43)

actually much more interested in the fact that you hold the record for the second longest throw in recorded history which is incredible so Ian please do tell us a little bit more about that including who actually holds the record for the longest throw and are you just a little bit miffed that someone has thrown a cricket ball further than you?

Ian (07:03)

you

Well, thanks for the intro. mean, I now feel like I want to be coached by myself after hearing all that. It's great. ⁓ was, I mean, if you can be average, I was a very average professional cricketer, if you can be average. But one thing that I had, I was blessed with was a great throwing arm. I mean, unbelievable. And even now at my age, I can still throw quite a long distance. Well, that's useless because no play. Just great for snowball fights, but that's about it. But... ⁓

Briony Brock (07:11)

you

Ian (07:34)

So someone suggested that I get into the world of throwing generally, which is why the baseball came along and then why the javelin came along. But the cricket ball was interesting because in the Guinness Book of Records, the oldest standing record was cricket ball throw. It's since been removed. It's not in there anymore, but it used to be in there. And it was set in, I think it was 1881 or something like that, by a guy at Durham Sands Racecourse wearing a top hat.

the through a cricket ball apparently 142 yards or something. But you see in those days, I think they measured it out by steps. I don't think they had a tape measure. And secondly, I think they measured it to where it rolled and stopped.

Briony Brock (08:15)

Hmm.

Nathan Wood (08:15)

Yes.

Briony Brock (08:21)

Yeah, well, they would have had to, yeah.

Nathan Wood (08:22)

Yeah, okay.

Ian (08:23)

Yeah,

so my throw, which was 100 years after the event in 1981, was out in Cape Town and I was out there playing professionally for a club and it was measured by the Athletic Association. That's a verified throw and it was 126.1 meters, which is about that much shorter the record and that's where it landed. So am I

Nathan Wood (08:43)

Yeah.

Briony Brock (08:51)

Did you just have to go

or did you go again?

Ian (08:53)

no,

no. Well, the thing is, Briony, that distance, you probably only want to have one go because, you know, the I mean, I teach biomechanics now. So I understand the forces and stress that goes with the system. You almost you almost dislocate your shoulder throwing that distance. And it's actually this is actually the breaking force, not the throw. It's the deceleration that does it. But it was. Yeah, I think I'd probably only thrown that distance once. I mean, I've got within 15 meters of it.

Briony Brock (09:13)

Hmm.

Ian (09:22)

few times but it a very very challenging throw. And am I miffed about it? Not really. I'm still around that guy is not. They removed the record anyway from from Guinness, the Guinness book. But one thing that it gave me a great reputation as a fielder and what it meant was in my cricket career people didn't run when I got near the ball and I wasn't really a fast runner.

I mean, someone said I was a camel armed with missiles and I know what they meant. It took me forever to get there, but once I got there, you'd never run. And because I could throw 126 meters, even 70 meter boundaries were almost half the distance. So the throws would come in, you know, flat to the wicket keeper sort of chin height and fairly quickly. The danger was I had half the team backing up on the other side of the field. If I didn't quite get it right, it was a bit of a...

Briony Brock (10:01)

Yeah.

Ian (10:16)

loose cannon but yeah so that was my I don't know if it's a claim to fame to be second in anything is it but

Nathan Wood (10:22)

Well,

what I'm hearing is actually your first because that first one obviously was null and void. know, your, your, your account was a true, true version. So let's, let's crown you world champion at Throne of Cricketball. So kind of all jokes aside, the fact that you've operated across cricket, baseball, and even javelin hints at someone who was very curious and constantly pushing, you know, those physical limits, not just in one sport.

Briony Brock (10:31)

Yes, yes, yes.

Ian (10:33)

Let's start off. Thank you. Thank you.

Nathan Wood (10:53)

So when you look back on your playing days, how much of what you experienced as a fast bowler, as a baseball, or as a javelin thrower still shapes how you coach and think about fast bowling today.

Ian (11:07)

I think Nathan, that is probably one of the best questions you could ever ask somebody that transitions from a player to coach. What I find is a lot of players go from a changing room and to put a tracksuit on and that's about it. And they become mentors and guides. And I didn't want to do that because luckily for my students, I'm a far better coach than I was a player. And what I've learned is actually how to help educate people to get the best out of what they have, not

tell them to do what I did. I often find that some really fantastic cricketers didn't quite understand how they did something. So because I had that sort of checkered journey and it was lots of stops and starts and I was very interested in the mechanics of movement and things, it got me to dive very deeply into what's working. But more than that, if I'm gonna coach young kids who are nine years old, I can't speak to them in overly technical terms because I need to explain it to them.

Briony Brock (11:43)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Ian (12:05)

And actually what formed really formed the basis of my own coaching, part of my own experience when I experimented on myself and found out I could bowl faster was spending a lot of time coaching abroad. I lived in Bangladesh for six months. I was national bowling coach for those guys. And it's a nation full of left arm spin bowlers. You know, and then you're trying to teach people that have had no exposure at all to technique.

and then I spent I've been about 20 or times to India coaching people that sometimes don't even speak English as a first language and Discovering that if you're going to explain something a you've got to demonstrate it properly Secondly, it's gonna be done in a way that they can take away and start using because as a coach I mean I always think that a coach should be someone that it's like if you call a plumber you want to fix a problem if You have a coach you want with someone that not can only work with you make you feel great

Briony Brock (12:51)

Mm.

Ian (13:03)

but actually fix some issues that you may have. And so I went down the technical skills route. became, I set my stall out because when I started coaching 30 years ago, I know I'm not over 30, don't look over 30, but when I started coaching 30 years ago, people weren't talking about technique of fast bowling at all. It was just pitch the ball up, bowl a line and length at the top of off stump, which we still talk about, but there was no, do I do that? So my fascination, which is a great question, Nathan, it's a long answer round, but.

Briony Brock (13:28)

Mm-hmm.

Ian (13:32)

I was curious about how things worked, know, break it apart, what does it look like? Stick it back together, can I make it better? And does that feel normal and natural? So that's what I've really spent my time doing and that's led me to the projects I'm involved in today.

Briony Brock (13:49)

So when you were that much better, I mean, I don't know what the third best cricket will throw was, but I imagine your throw when you were out there in South Africa was considerably better than everybody else on the team. Did you attribute that to some technical kind of tuning in that you had with your body or what did you attribute that specialness to?

Ian (14:12)

Well, think, Briony, at the time, I didn't think about it. I was just one of those guys and we say, you're blessed with this. I remember as a child, I used to throw a lot because my mum used to stand on the fence at the bottom of the garden saying, stop throwing or time to come in for your tea. And I was the person that if it ever snowed and we had a snowball fight, you didn't want to be on the opposite side of my team, you know. So as a kid growing up, I was always throwing and I think

Briony Brock (14:20)

Mm.

Ian (14:42)

I think I just, it was self-organized. As is how the body learns anyways, we self-organize from information we're given. But I think I self-organized and I just happened to be one of those people that could maximize what they had. I wasn't an athletic kid. I mean, I played lots of sports, but I wasn't like an athlete. I played county hockey and did all this other stuff. But it was my throw that was particularly different. I couldn't run fast.

Briony Brock (14:45)

Mm.

Ian (15:10)

I know and I can't throw with my left hand either. mean I look terrible if I do it this way. So it was just something to do with this right shoulder and arm. So I don't know, Briony, is the short answer. I never really thought about how I did it. I just managed to do it think.

Briony Brock (15:23)

Mm.

But despite that, you've now found a way of being able to help others tune in to how they do it, which is quite interesting.

Ian (15:34)

Yeah, so this is going back to the technical skills coach. I when I started coaching, my interest was in different bowling actions. How is it that this bowler bowls faster than this bowler and they're both internationals? Or why is this bowler known for accuracy and this bowler is known for speed, but they're very wild? Is there something within their makeup? Is there something within their physiology? Or is there something in the way they've learned the sequence?

The way I teach it now is that it's a structure and humans are process-based. So if we can teach a process, we can follow a sat-nav system. You bounce around within it, you've plot your own journey, but basically there are parameters. And we weren't really teaching, and we haven't been teaching until quite recently, technical parameters. We do on batting. Nathan, you'll understand this. You learn the batting technique. There's a way to play a cover drive. I it might look different when you do it because that's your style.

Briony Brock (16:24)

Hmm.

Ian (16:33)

but actually get your foot to the pitch of the ball, punch your elbow through it, whatever it is, we teach that. Fast bowling, there's never been that, really, there hadn't been that. Dennis Lillee came along, the great Australian fast bowler, he worked at MRF Pace Foundation, he began to talk about biomechanics, he was probably the first guy to do that. I met him a few times, I went to MRF when I was, I'd written my first book by then on the technical stuff, and I was quite underwhelmed.

by the whole process because I thought it was quite basic, but he was the first. And what he gave, he opened the door actually for the rest of us to kind of walk through and say, there better ways of doing it? if someone like the great, and he was absolutely brilliant, fast bowler if someone like Dennis Lillee could start talking about bowling actions, maybe we could look a bit more deep. Without being scientific and wearing a white coat, we could actually,

we do it in a friendly way? So that's kind of what got me to where I am now and it was studying people's bowling actions and seeing if there was a common thread between them.

Briony Brock (17:40)

Hmm.

Nathan Wood (17:41)

So

you made a point there, Ian — my ears pricked up there because you said something about players going straight into coaching. And then you mentioned about some players don't actually know what they actually do. And I couldn't agree more than that. my mind goes back to ⁓ actually being on a couple of ECB courses where we've been doing biomechanics.

And one particular example, which is replicated many times in my experience where there was a very well-known wicket keeper played for England, fine wicket keeper was just wanting to go into coaching. And he was talking about this is what he does when he goes to the left. And the biomechanics said, no, you don't do that. And he was like, no, I do. ⁓ And he got him on a force plate and it categorically showed that he doesn't do what he thought he'd been doing for 20 odd years. And

Ian (18:29)

Hahaha.

Nathan Wood (18:38)

I use that as a story because what it illustrates is even though you do something very, very well and for a long period of time, actually sometimes you don't know how you do it. And if you don't know how you do it and then you start telling other people you need to do it like this because I did it that way, then there's a lot of danger that comes in with that. And there's so many examples that I could cite. And I won't, but I fully agree with what you said there.

Ian (19:04)

But also, I think the thing is, Nathan, with the technical aspects of stuff, as coaches, this is not just cricket, this applies mostly to cricket. It's that we get confused with style and structure. Style is what it looks like when you do it. So if the three of us were learning dance steps, we might all look different. You see a silhouette of Jimmy Anderson. You know it's Jimmy Anderson bowling. You see a shape of Virat Kohli playing an off-drive. You can see it's Virat Kohli without actually seeing.

because there's a shape to it. There's a style structure is the technical part of what they're doing. Like they say, Steve Smith, as an example, has a very unusual technique. He hasn't, he's got unusual style because when he hits a cricket ball, he's in the right position. The same as all the world-class players are in the same position. So if you dive in, if you take away all of the fluff and tinsel and say, what are the key attributes that you need to play this shot or to bowl this ball or to increase your speed?

you can break it down into little jigsaw pieces, which is what I've done in fast bowling. And there are four key positions in the bowling action that every bowler has to go through, land the back foot, land the front foot, let the ball go and follow the ball down the pitch in real simple terms. And then how they link all that up is probably their style, the way they actually, what it looks like when they do it, I should say. And that's why we all look like we've got different actions. And you can say to, like they had the wicketkeeper example, you can say to somebody,

You might do it like that, but that might not be the most effective and efficient way to do it. So if we could get you into a really good position, could you be faster, more consistent? And actually, you know, we deal in the currency of runs and wickets as players. You know, if you score runs, you're a millionaire, and if you get nought, you're bankrupt. And the same in fast bowling. If you take wickets, you're an absolute legend. If you don't get any, you're dropped.

Briony Brock (20:58)

Hmm.

Ian (20:59)

The whole point of doing the technical aspect is to make us better at the outcome. cricket is odd because bowling has always been focused on the outcome. Pitch it up, line and length, hit the touch, it's all at the other end, not what are you doing between the crease lines. Batting is absolute opposite. Batting is all about head to the pitch, get your foot to the pitch of the ball, keep your balance, move into position. It's never hit it between those two fielders or hit it over that woman's

head in the crowd. That's what you're trying to do. But we flip the script. And I'm trying to take it back to the bit that actually makes us good. How do we really do this job?

Briony Brock (21:41)

I guess there's also a sort of certain irony to that in that the physical demands of being fast bowler are so important too. So by neglecting that and focusing on the outcome, you're ignoring those physical demands on the body, which we know can have massive consequences. maybe you can talk a little bit more about those physical demands that you kind of trying to manage.

Ian (22:01)

Yeah.

Well, there are lots of, it's a great point, Briony, there are lots of different pillars, actually, here. the physical, I teach the technical part first, because I look at, I can look at a video of somebody and say, that's not effective or efficient. But it might be they're not physically capable of getting into a different position. It might simply be they're fatigued and something has broken down. It might be they're not athletic enough to do it.

It might be that they haven't been given the right information, so they don't have the cognitive ability to make a change. I mean, I remember working with Darren Gough — Goughy joined us from Yorkshire when I was bowling coach at Essex. And I worked with everyone else in the group except Darren because he was 30-something at the time and played for England and had got 300 wickets. And as they say, you can tell a Yorkshireman, but you can't tell him very much. And he basically said, you

what do you think of my bowling action? I've been dying to get a hold of Goughy for about 20 years. And I said, well, you put your arm across your body when you bowl, you block yourself off. And actually, I think if you keep it here. And he said, I don't do this. And I had to show him stills pictures of what he actually did. He said, oh, no, I do that. And I said, well, if you can use your front arm. And he said, what do want me to do? And we discussed it. And he bowled a ball, which you never do if you're making a technical change, he bowled a ball in the net, still live batter.

It happened to be the ball he bowled nicked the batter off. And he said, ⁓ that'll do for me. And he stayed with it. These last four years of his career, he changed his front arm position and he did it in one ball. Now there's lots of books written about 10,000 hours and 10,000 repetitions and how you change technique. One ball, he bowled because he absolutely got it. And he, and he was, he's an intelligent guy. He understands what he's doing. That is not common.

Nathan Wood (23:49)

Mm.

Briony Brock (23:50)

Hmm.

Ian (23:51)

I work with a lot of people who you can work with them for months and they still look exactly the same three months later because they're just not and it might be one of those pillars that they can't actually make the change. So sometimes when we dive in and I try not to do that as a coach but when we do dive in and say ⁓ this could be better are they able to do that in the first place because if they can't do it they can't do it.

Briony Brock (23:56)

Hmm.

And if that first ball had been a wide, would he have stuck with it as well? People expect such instant feedback, don't they? And if they don't, they go, it feels weird, or they sort of might be more hesitant to engage with it.

Ian (24:18)

Yeah. Bye.

see, the thing is when someone says that to me, it feels weird. That's what I want to hear. That's it. That's what I want to hear. It feels unusual, different, odd, weird, strange, long as doesn't hurt me. But if it feels different, great, we're on the right track. We're doing something. Because something that's natural is just something that you've done over over over over again.

Briony Brock (24:32)

Yeah, ⁓

Nathan Wood (24:35)

Yeah.

Briony Brock (24:40)

Yeah.

Ian (24:52)

If you keep doing something, something new becomes natural because I hate the mornings, I can't get up early. You get up early for five years, now you're getting up early, that's what you used to do. So you can change it. It's just knowing how to do that.

Briony Brock (25:01)

Yeah.

Mm.

Nathan Wood (25:05)

So listening to you there, it's really clear that fast bowling isn't just about skill, it's about the body, it's about the mind, it's about the environment. From your perspective Ian, what makes fast bowling fundamentally different from the other disciplines in cricket?

Ian (25:22)

I think fast bowling in and of itself is a sport because the demands on the system are just insane. You've got six to 12 times your body weight goes through your front leg on front foot impact. And we talk about trying to lock out the front leg, keep it straight, rather than bend it, we try and lock it out and transfer the energy out of the system. Let's say you're a big fast bowler, 90 kgs, you've got

Nathan Wood (25:47)

Incredible. Amazing.

Ian (25:52)

half a ton going through your front leg. On back foot impact is three to four tons body weight. So all of that through your base of your system and then that travels up through the body and then if it goes through your lower lumbar, you know, through your back, this is why people that fall away when they're bowled, we call it lateral flexion, they get injuries L3, L4 vertebrae, they have stress fracture, stress reaction, especially young kids that are still growing. So whenever we're working with these kids and we have loads of them at the National Fast Bowling Academy,

Briony Brock (26:17)

Yeah, I've seen.

Ian (26:22)

are they safe? Are they in these really bad positions where if we add a Ferrari engine to a Fiat, not knocking Fiat's, but if you put a Ferrari engine to a Fiat 500, is the car going to be able to cope with the extra speed? It's all in good to get somebody quicker, but is there a safety issue with that? And when these kids are developing 14 years old and upwards, they're not fully bone density grown until they're 23.

Briony Brock (26:42)

Hmm.

Ian (26:51)

22, somewhere around there. And it's a classic stress fracture situation. The amount of kids, Briony, that I see today that have got stress reactions or stress fractures, it's just crazy.

Briony Brock (27:01)

I see a lot of girls as well.

I coach a fair amount of girls and I feel like it's almost more, well at least from, I see it, seen it more in girls. ⁓

Ian (27:10)

Yeah, and the girls

tend to get overlooked and I don't know why because I know physiologically they're different but the issues are the same. There three things that are causing stress fractures. One is bowling on hard surfaces which we know so exclude that. The other two are going to be over bowling and having a poor technique. Now there's a saying you can't out muscle a poor technique. However fit you are, if technique's poor you're going to get injured at some point. So the answer had been for the last 20 years let's bring

strength and conditioning coaches into county cricket and junior cricket, which is great. mean, absolutely agree with that. But that's to solve an issue to do with injury, which actually wasn't the issue. The issue was actually poor technique. Or they're just bowling too much at a certain time. You know, they're doing nothing for a long period of time. And suddenly there's massive spike. And then the back can't cope with it. And the young kids that are outgrowing their bodies because they've had a growth spurt, it's really difficult.

Briony Brock (27:42)

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Hmm.

Mm.

Ian (28:10)

As

a coach, you know, and I have a duty of care for people, are they physically, and that's the physical side of it, Briony, are they physically able to do this work? And the other side of it is, we getting them into the right positions to be safe and transfer all that power, those multiple times body weight through the system into the cricket ball, which is the thing we're trying to bowl faster at the other end.

Briony Brock (28:24)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nathan Wood (28:32)

Do you think that the, the need to prepare fast bowlers in a different way than other players is fully understood and appreciated within most coaching setups. And I'm talking about in pathway setups and performance setups, or do you see fast bowlers still getting treated like other players, like, I don't know, doing the same warmups, following the same S&C plan. What's your take on that Ian And have we got better at that or is this

still a long way to to go.

Ian (29:04)

I don't think we have gotten better at it in that sense. I think there's more of it. I think there's more fitness and S&C and sort of standard stuff. I mean, there's more of a focus on it. If you go back to the days, probably not your career, but before you, you know, I played cricket, was in black and white, all you had swing your arms around, you're ready to bowl, you know, the old school stuff. I think we've moved on from that, definitely. fitness and strength and conditioning are absolutely imperative.

Absolutely, because fast bowlers are not workhorses, they're more like sprinters. are absolutely racehorses, not cart horses.

Briony Brock (29:44)

From what sort of age would

you say sorry, Ian, for that to start?

Ian (29:48)

for SNC as soon as possible, as soon as they can lift some weights. And I don't mean heavy weights. mean, as soon as they can start getting mobility and some resistance, we have nine, 10-year-olds in our academy who are on an S&C program. It's a very, very small one, but it introduces their body because as they're growing, they need to make sure everything's working with it. And also fast bowling's asymmetrical. It's one side of your body that's working harder than the other.

Briony Brock (29:50)

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Ian (30:14)

And this is the other thing, know, they say, go to the gym and do this side and that's a fast bowling isn't that at all. I mean, if you're right on bowling, your left side is actually the system that's taking the blocking force. And if you're right side, that's creating that rotational ballistic movement against it. So you've got, it's like slamming a door shut. You've got the door frame and the door. They're two different things. This door frame stops, you slam the door against it, which is you driving against the fixed point, which is the brace front leg.

Briony Brock (30:34)

Mm.

Ian (30:41)

That's asymmetrical. And then you've got the top and the bottom half. It's a bit like doing this. There are different times. You've got coordination, rhythm, timing. You've got sequence in there. You've got the whole thing you're trying to do. The whole world is kind of, it's unique. It is a unique. ⁓ I think the closest we probably, in sport terms, the closest I think we have to a fast bowler is probably a tennis player.

Nathan Wood (30:51)

don't know.

Briony Brock (31:07)

Hmm.

Ian (31:08)

who can be on court for four or five hours, they explode when they serve, they're running around, they have to stop. There's a lot of things going on. you know, that's, I think if you train like a tennis player, you're probably not going to be a million miles away. Strangely, although it's completely different sport, it's because they have a lot of rotational forces going through their system as well. But it's a tough one because if you don't start young enough,

Briony Brock (31:22)

Hmm.

Nathan Wood (31:22)

Mm-hmm.

Ian (31:35)

you don't introduce it young enough. And Nathan, as you said about, you know, are we getting better at it? I think in terms of coaching fast bowling, I still think we're a thousand miles away. And why I'm saying that, and this isn't calling out coach education, although I'm going to slightly do it. You've been on the courses, you're a level four coach, you understand going through processes and stuff. The fast bowling sections of that are very light touch.

Briony Brock (31:46)

Yeah.

Nathan Wood (31:46)

Mm.

Ian (32:01)

And a lot of coaches do not understand how to handle fast bowling at all. It's a dark art. I mean, it's really challenging. And unless you know how to deal with fast bowlers, you have to find a specialist fast bowling coach. And you're not going to fall over six of them in the high street because they're just not there. Who's a fast bowling expert in the UK? mean, without naming names, Nathan, we could probably on our one hand name fast bowling coaches in this country. Just not out there.

Nathan Wood (32:30)

Yeah,

yeah, you are right. mean, it's easy finding a batting coach, isn't it? You know, in a field, but fast bowling coach is a rare breed, particularly, you know, for those younger players who, you know, don't have access to professional environments. So yeah, I agree with you with that. think it I think it raises a bigger question about actually how well fast bowling is supported within

Ian (32:35)

Yeah.

Nathan Wood (32:56)

know traditional systems. Now you're the founder of you know the National Fast Bowling Academy, a coaching program which is solely dedicated to the arts and science of fast bowling. What made you think that fast bowling needed its own environment rather than just being a strand within a wider coaching program?

Briony Brock (33:01)

I'm

Ian (33:19)

Well, a couple of things. mean, firstly, we've alluded to a little bit in in that if you're if you're a parent of a young boy or girl, where do you go for where do you go for fast bowling coaching You join a cricket club, you might be at the school, you know, unless the dad knows a little bit, might have played a bit. But then it's like, what do I know? So I wanted to have something that was very specialized. But there's no point in me doing that unless I knew that what we were doing actually worked. So that was why having spent time in India.

all those trips and setting up the Bangladesh, the PACE Foundation in Bangladesh, which is still running today, which has produced a couple of fast bowlers, international fast bowlers. And then working through the county system, Essex Fast Bowling Coach, Northampt Fast Bowling Coach, working at Worcestershire for a little while, know, working with Shoaib Akhtar, Dale Stein was one of my students. When you start to actually put yourself out there and make a difference for players who are either already good

and getting better or want to be very good, you think, well, hang on, there's a potentially a program here. Could we put people through this system, this sheep dip, could we put them through and they emerge the other end, a better version of the one that entered in? Now, I always say this, I don't know how good somebody's going to be. I really got no idea. And this is part of the reason I'm not a massive fan of pathways. And I don't want to upset anybody, but...

I pathways have a point, but what about someone who's not on the pathway? What about kids who aren't in that pathway? The problem we've sometimes got in this country of cricket is that someone's in a pathway, great, there's a header pathway, if you're not in it, you're nowhere. But actually most people aren't on a pathway. And there are plenty of people that join it very late. They come around the side, know, they suddenly appear or they get written off because at 15 they're not as good as the other kids who are.

Briony Brock (35:14)

And is that particularly the case in bowling? Because I think I remember reading a study that said something along the lines of you can track batters from like 10. The best batters at under 10 will probably be your best batters at under 18. But actually it said with bowling it can be much later. So you can see again another 10 bowler that's great, but that doesn't actually mean anything. It's much later. And so do you think for bowling they come in later more than they do for batting? Is that in your experience?

Ian (35:14)

And that's part of our problem.

I

don't know is the short answer. know that maturity wise as quick quick bowlers we're looking at late 20s, aren't we? 27, 28, somewhere around there to hit our peak. So if you write a kid off at 13, I mean, do that at your peril really. You know, I changed when I was, I was at Notts for two years and I wasn't good enough to be honest. They signed me, my brother,

Keith played for Essex 200 and something times and he's 10 years older than me. when Essex never signed me, I'm from Essex, I went to Notts and they took me to 19 year old, this will be relevant in a second. I got sacked when I was 21, oh sorry, I got released from my contract, basically I got sacked. I wasn't good enough, I mean they signed me and I think they probably thought I was my brother. I played in England in 19s, I opened the batting, I was a batter that bowled a little bit. And then I went away for a couple of years and I thought,

I really want to bowl fast and that got me interested in all the pace stuff. I flipped the script and ended up signing for Essex at 23 as a big ugly fast bowler that batted way down the order. I gave away the batting because there were so many batters, but there weren't many fast bowlers. At the time at Essex, there was an England bowler called Neil Foster who opened for England. There was Derek Pringle. We had John Lever. There were three England players. Then I joined as the

Nathan Wood (36:59)

me

Ian (37:07)

fourth seamer not actually going to be playing that much. And back in those days, you tend to get picked as the fourth fast bowler if the pitches were flat. Because if they were green seaming pitches, you didn't need four seam bowlers, you just needed three. And if they were flat, you needed an extra bowler. And it was muggins here that got picked for all the flat pitches. So my career, which was a sackable offense in the end, if you look at my stats, ⁓

Briony Brock (37:18)

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Ian (37:36)

I was quite happy because we won all the trophies at Essex in the 80s and we had a great play called Graham Gooch and the rest of his history. We were a great side and it was great fun. But the reason I'm saying all of that is that I would have been out of the system as a fast bowler at 16, 17 because I wasn't a fast bowler. I was a little swing bowler that could bat and I learned it very late myself. So in my 20s, I completely switched it around.

And don't think going back to the pathway problem issue, don't think pathways in them of themselves are a problem. But I think sometimes as a coach, have to step right back and say, have we missed anybody? And is there a way we can bring someone in from outside that's been recommended or and this is where I think cricket is poor. If you look at football, football has a fantastic scouting system, unbelievable scouting system. They will go look at Sunday League football and they'll find players from everywhere.

Briony Brock (38:16)

Hmm.

Nathan Wood (38:17)

Mm.

Briony Brock (38:29)

and

Ian (38:35)

Cricket, unless you're there, they're not looking at you. And I think that's a bit of an issue.

Briony Brock (38:40)

So you be looking for Ian, if you were a scout in a cricketer, what would you be looking for that was a sign that somebody could have some more speed within them?

Ian (38:50)

Well, first things first, look at how they bowl, so the technical action. I we do a lot of our trials for the National Fast Bowling Academy, a video trial. So those in the video of them bowling to a batter from where the umpire stands and then from the side. So we can see two angles. And I'm looking at a whole bunch of things. Athleticism is huge. I mean, I always say that whatever sport you're in, you're an athlete first, and then you're that skill second. So fast bowlers are athlete first, then fast bowlers.

Briony Brock (38:58)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Ian (39:19)

doesn't mean if you're not athletic you can't be a great fast bowler but we're talking about fast bowlers here not medium pace bowlers and speed is an asset in it is not a golden ticket to the big leagues you know speed on its own but it is an absolute asset i mean i mean nathan will back me up on this nathan wouldn't be sitting there waiting to bat with a hundred mile an hour bowler bowling and he's thinking oh i can't wait to get in now you're thinking can you bring on the dibbly-dobblies because then i want to go in

Briony Brock (39:46)

you

Ian (39:49)

You don't want to be facing the ball whizzing past your head because it's the West Indies. That's not where you're trying to be. So speed, and Virat Kohli said this, speed unravels the best batting techniques. It really does. So it is an asset, but how do you teach it? And what would I look for, which was your question. I'd look at someone that potentially, you look at their action and think they've got so much more to come because they're in very poor positions.

Briony Brock (40:15)

Mmm.

Ian (40:16)

So we sometimes take people in our academy who are just starting out their journey and you can sense they want to learn a lot. And we've got others who are, and doesn't have to be tall. I know there's a big thing about fast bowlers being tall, but Shoaib Ahktar wasn't six feet tall, neither was Malcolm Marshall and they're two of the greats. You don't have to be like a step ladder to bowl fast. But again, going back to how we pick people, alot of pathway stuff, some of the questions now are how tall is your father?

Briony Brock (40:21)

Mm-hmm.

I know. I think it's interesting because it's the same with the girls and we were talking about, was talking about this with the coach the other day and we're talking about with women, it seems like maybe and you obviously know better than anyone Ian, the gains from the height are less pronounced as women tend to be more side on and have that wider hip. Is that in your experience too? It's sort of less of a, you you can bowl

Ian (40:47)

What's that got to do with me? Man, I get it, I get it, but you know.

Briony Brock (41:16)

proportionally faster even if you're not as tall as a woman.

Ian (41:19)

Well, you make the point perfectly. The world's fastest female bowler is Shabnim Ismail who's, I think, five foot two on a windy day. And she's bowled 81, 82 miles an hour. I I've embarrassed some of the bowlers in first class cricket, to be honest, men's first class cricket. You know, think most of the Essex bowling attack are probably that speed at the moment. I shouldn't say that. you know, what I'm saying is that she's relatively rapid and she's tiny.

Briony Brock (41:26)

Mm. Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Mm. Mm.

Ian (41:49)

⁓ Speed comes from rhythm, timing and coordination and the biggest indicator of speed is going to be the sequence you move in. If your sequence is correct, if you build from the floor up with a rocket take, if you get a sequence right, it's like handing a baton over. Imagine a four by 400 meter race. That baton is the speed. You're trying to pass that to the next runner.

So that's your body working from the floor up. It's handing the speed over to the next component part of the chain called the kinetic chain. You're passing it on into the ball. If you get that sequence wrong, if the person receiving the baton runs too early or not running fast enough, or you don't hand it over, you drop it, that sequence, that chain breaks, you don't win the gold medal. You don't run fast. You don't get the world record time. But you sequence that. my God, everything.

Do know what? And again, Nathan will understand this. You look at a bowler like Jofra Archer, who looks like a super smooth Rolls Royce Bentley engine. How? Why? Because he's got that sequence of events that are so smooth. The transition between these movement patterns are so good. But you can learn that as a bowler. You can maximize however clunky you are and however little you have. You can do that.

You can make that smooth. can dance better. You can play the piano better. You can learn how that operates. It doesn't make you a concert pianist, but it makes you the best version of you, which is the point I'm trying to make.

Briony Brock (43:24)

Mm.

Nathan Wood (43:25)

Now I'm going to be a little bit mischievous here, Ian, and gently suggest that fast bowling is more physically demanding than batting, but batting is much more psychologically demanding than fast bowling, mainly because of the sudden death element and that as a bowler you're always in the game because if you have a stinking five overs but then get a couple of wickets with two bad balls to win the game, you can walk off the pitch as a hero. Now I'm guessing...

Ian (43:28)

Go on.

Nathan Wood (43:55)

you would challenge this notion. So how do you see it? What are the specific mental demands that fast bowlers have to cope with?

Ian (44:05)

I'm not going to challenge you at all. totally agree with you. think that batting is incredibly mentally challenging because it's the game within, isn't it? The batters, if you think of someone like Jonathan Trott or Alastair Cook, people that would bat for days and days on end, how do they do it? Will they switch off, switch on, switch off, switch on, walk away from the crease, come back? There's a routine to it.

Fast bowling is a different mental skill. The mental skill for fast bowling is one of, I think, a belief. There's a very strong belief system in fast bowling. I think when you go into a game, you have to have absolute clarity over what you're trying to do. I see a lot of bowlers, particularly in the shorter version of the game, believe it or not, get very confused about their role clarity. You know, what am I trying to do? If I'm a new ball bowler, what is my job?

and just literally deliver that skill. What's my best ball in this situation? Understanding that point. Can I hammer that, that length, that hard back of a length and I'll stop, can I keep hitting it? If that's the role, am I trying to bowl Yorkers at the death? Am I brave enough? That's an emotional feeling. Have I trained that enough to be able to dive back into my muscle memory and say, yeah, look, I've done this a thousand times. I've got this. It's a situation where

If you're playing in a World Cup final and I heard the story when England won the World Cup final and Jofra Archer bowled the super over, I heard this story that apparently in the changing room, they were asking who wants to bowl it. And there were two or three players, fast bowlers who looked away and looked down. And Jofra Archer went, I got it. Now that is a mental strength in itself. And he said, I got it.

Briony Brock (45:50)

Yeah.

Ian (45:59)

He bowled a great over and he got hit for a boundary and stuff or bowled a wide away. But that's what it takes, I think, as a fast bowler at the highest levels is someone that sticks their hand up and says, this is my job. I know what I'm doing. And that's really hard. And so I think the mental strengths are different between batting and bowling. But the belief system, where I see it is a lot of young kids don't back.

themselves as, I know the saying could be said for batters as well, but they do not back themselves. And I think if you've trained that, and you've worked hard at it, it's just a rinse and repeat. And then that's where the that's where the confidence comes from.

Briony Brock (46:40)

That super over one's a funny one because on many a rainy day I've shown that video you know we haven't been able to train and I paused I think the first ball's a no ball or a wide that he lost I paused it and I always ask me and they start panicking because they're too young to they wouldn't watch it they don't really know what happens and they say what would you do at this point and this is

I'd be walking off the pitch and going home after that first ball. And you can sort of obviously, we wouldn't as adults, but you can see that there are a lot of people would feel so much pressure and their confidence would just collapse. But the way that he's regrouped and persevered and just carried on, I think is hard for a lot of people to be able to do. And I think it's kind of undervalued.

Ian (47:23)

No, I totally agree with you. mean, it's a mark of the man really. I use a saying, it's a saying that a lot of others use, fake it till you make it. And I think sometimes, sometimes when we dive back into the good memories, what I call the movie in my mind, what movie am I playing over and over? If I'm bowling that super over or I've got one ball and the opposition want four to win, how do I see that?

And do I see it? Do I have that ability to visualize exactly what I want? But if you haven't done it, it's hard to visualize something that isn't real. It's hard to. But if you've done it, you should be able to go, well, I've done this. And actually, that is what you take in. it only

Briony Brock (48:03)

Hmm. ⁓

Hmm.

Ian (48:13)

takes one ball to make a difference. And this is the great thing about fast bowlers is they can bowl an absolutely stink, as Nathan was alluding to, a stinker of a spell or an over and pick up a couple of wickets. And suddenly your day is a lot better and it can happen with the click of the fingers. A batter, you know, he's got to bat all day long to get 50 or 100. And to change a game is a lot harder, think, for a batter than a bowler.

Briony Brock (48:25)

Hmm. Hmm.

It's funny you say that because I remember Stuart Broad talking about how he learned to ⁓ not focus so much on the wickets because as you say you can get a wicket that doesn't really deserve to be a wicket and you can bowl a great ball that isn't a wicket so he learned to a bit more on his processes as opposed to those kind of more outcomes. Is that what you would encourage your players to do?

Nathan Wood (48:40)

That's it.

No, you go.

Ian (49:07)

Yeah, of course. you know, as I said, fast bowling, mean, cricket is a process. We're process based learners. So if you put one foot in front of the other and kept walking, you'd be in Aberdeen by Friday, you know, just like that's kind of that. How do I do it? We'll just keep moving. And I think I think it's great advice for anybody that's in trouble, you know, like I'm in a terrible space, we'll keep moving because if you stand still, you'll still be in it. And I think sometimes any direction helps, you know. But that is that is the thing about fast bowling in particular.

Briony Brock (49:26)

Yeah.

Ian (49:38)

is that you get thrown a new ball out of the packet, it's a brand new cherry, they smell great, they feel good in your hand, you get the wind behind you, the sun's shining, umpire says play, there's a crowd in, first ball, the Ashes let's say, expectation levels are huge. And you get moved along with that whole environment. But can you create a bubble around you that regardless of what's happened, you're just process-based? But can I run up? Can I make sure that I do this? And it goes there.

And I think if you're doing that most of the time, you're almost blocking out what's happening around you. I mean, I had moments. I played in the 1985 NatWest final and I wasn't due to play. It was my first season at Essex. I got called in because Neil Foster, who was due to play, had glandular fever. And why I'm telling you this story is I had no time to get nervous because 20 minutes before the start, the captain, Keith Fletcher you're playing. And I was like, what the heck? And then, I mean, we batted first.

to an half, three hours to get nervous. But I was not a nervous person. And the reason I wasn't a nervous person is because I was back myself. But this is absolutely true. The only ball I do not remember bowling is the first ball, because I opened the bowling from the nursery end. And I bowled to Chris Broad and Tim Robinson, who were both test players at the time. And I bowled the first ball, and I had to watch the highlights back to see where it went, because I couldn't remember. But after that,

Briony Brock (50:41)

Yeah.

Mm.

Ian (51:07)

I remembered the crowd because I got abused because it was against Notts, my old county, they were calling me a Notts reject and pointing like a football crowd. But I just remember having fun on the day. For me, it was the greatest day of my life because every ball, I I thought this is the best job in the world. The first ball I don't remember. After that was the best thing ever.

And it actually did. mean, we won the game by one run. I got a run out. I got out Sir Richard Hadlee one of my boyhood heroes. You know, I had a great day at the office and we came away with a trophy. But just doing that was incredible. And I think if you're able to, if environments affect you, try and make them affect you in a positive way, because if they're negative, it's hard as a bowler. You get it slightly wrong and it disappears. And there's nothing worse than starting off poorly.

Briony Brock (51:56)

Hmm.

Ian (52:01)

Because you try and drag that back, that's quite hard. That is quite hard.

Briony Brock (52:04)

And how do you support your players to develop the skills to be able to do that? Is that something you incorporate into your programmes?

Ian (52:11)

Yeah, we just get them to we get them to to practice what that what the preach basically, if you're if you're trying to be you're trying to master Yorkers, the way to master them is to keep doing them until you go and get them wrong. That's cool. That's true mastery. True mastery is doing something until it doesn't go wrong. What people do, unfortunately, Briony, in life, they do it a few times. I've got it. I've got it. Now you haven't. You've done it right. One in five or three in five. That's not mastery. You've still got two to go. If you can do it.

Briony Brock (52:28)

Hmm.

Ian (52:40)

Nine out of ten, let's take nine out of ten. you can do it nine or ten out of ten, I would say that was mastery. There people bowling now in T20, actually T10 cricket, who just run out and bowl 12 Yorkers or six Yorkers. That's their job. They come on and bowl six Yorkers. And you could almost have a megaphone and shout to the batter, Yorker coming. It doesn't matter because that's what they're doing. That's their role. Their job is to deliver that.

And I think if you want to become something, you need to practice it until you become that thing.

Nathan Wood (53:13)

Mm.

Briony Brock (53:14)

But

how do you ensure that they can then replicate that when those pressures that we talked about are there in the game?

Ian (53:20)

Well, they can't unless they've trained it. This is the entire point. I mean, there's a lot of studies and you may well know this yourself. And I can't think whether it came from college basketball or not where they got elite basketball players, they split them down the middle and half of the group were practicing shooting hoops for six weeks and the other half of the group didn't even pick up a basketball, but they thought about shooting hoops for six weeks.

Nathan Wood (53:46)

and

Ian (53:47)

And when they actually got together and went to the gym, the group that thought about it got more points than the group that actually practiced it. And it transpired. The reason for that was because the group that thought about it never missed. And because they added emotion and feeling to it, it felt real. So the brain could get back into that experience that when I'm shooting this hoop, I'm not missing this one. And I think there's a huge value to that mental aspect of cricket.

Briony Brock (53:54)

Mm.

Mmm, yeah.

Mm.

Yeah,

Ian (54:17)

Huge.

Briony Brock (54:18)

the visualisation in particular can be really helpful.

Ian (54:20)

Yeah,

absolutely massive. But if you can actually physically do that skill, obviously we're with people five hours and we're training them. So if they're not drilling with us, if they're doing outcome work, we just make sure that they're nailing it and then they know over and over and over again, can they get

Nathan Wood (54:34)

It's the thought that counts. So that feels like a good moment to talk a little bit about the partnership between Cricket Mind Online and the National Fast Bowling Academy. So from your point of view, Ian, why did you feel it was important to introduce education around mindset and mental performance to the fast bowlers in your program?

Ian (54:37)

Yes.

Well, it's actually a wider question than that. think there's a lot of ⁓ mental health issues around cricket full stop. And I think it's an area that needs to be taken a lot more seriously. This isn't just about the performance side of it. This is about the game itself. And certainly players going to the game, coming out of the game do struggle with it.

So I'm very, very aware of the mental aspects of cricket and how important it is. It's a team game played by individuals. And I think in itself, it's quite unique, if I can say that. There are lots of times when you feel isolated as a player. There are multiple times when you're away from home for long periods of time. And then I think understanding, and bring it to the sharper focus about cricket mind, understanding how the...

how you operate as a person is important. There are a lot of pressures from home. There are a lot of pressures from parents. They're inadvertent. They're not deliberate. It's just part of the package. We're under pressure sometimes as teenagers with school. We've got exams coming up. We've got peer pressure. We've got, am I part of this group? Have I got lots of friends? Am I liked or disliked? Then there's cricket performance. Why am I being dropped from this team? Why did I not bowl well this week?

How do I I let anybody down? You know, what are the steps for me to get better if I'm not being looked at? Why is this person taking my place? Very difficult questions for teenagers in particular. And why I want to get you guys involved with us is because you are asking and you are asking the right questions to spark that initial discussion that we can then have at our end as coaches.

saying to our students, we've got 180 students in different ages, where are you at the moment with this? How do you think about your training? How are you thinking about your post-match, your pre-match? Do you have routines? Is there a way that we can simplify and get rid of a lot of the noise so that actually when you come to deliver your skill, it's quite a simplified, straightforward process? And then if you're not getting that support, is there a way that we can bring that in for you?

And parents are in the room when we have these discussions. And you can see behind the kids, the parents are kind of going, yeah, I'm a bit to blame now. I'm putting a bit of pressure on them. And actually, we've had parents speak to us after watching some of the video stuff that you kindly do with us, which is brilliant. We absolutely love it. And the parents come up and say, it's such a value, because now it may improve and alter their relationship with their own siblings.

Briony Brock (57:42)

Mm.

Ian (57:43)

Is there a way we could be better as parents and not throw the pots and pans around if they get nought Or say, right, that's it, no dinner for you. Is there a way? Because there are a few.

Briony Brock (57:50)

Mm.

Nathan Wood (57:57)

Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more. From our side, I think the reason why we're so keen to partner with you is there's so many of the challenges that quick bowlers face. They're not just technical, they're about coping with those demands that we've talked about in the game. And in most cases in our day-to-day work,

with Cricket Mind, we end up working with players once their confidence has already taken a hit or they've got another issue. But what I think stood out here was the fact that you're trying to put something in place as a preventative measure, something to help players mitigate issues before they become an issue. And so we kind of just thought it was a good opportunity because I think we share the same view that, you know, mindset isn't separate.

from being a fast bowl, it's an integral part of being a successful fast bowler. Would you agree, Briony, with that?

Briony Brock (58:52)

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The earlier that you can start having those conversations, encouraging reflection, building that strong confidence and self-belief, the better. Especially if you can get parents on board as well, that's just so invaluable because that's always going to be something that you're fighting against if you can't get them on board.

Ian (59:05)

Yeah.

Nathan Wood (59:08)

Yeah.

Ian (59:12)

What also the parents of the bill payers, mean, they're the ones that sign the checks. I mean, with regard to if we talk about toolkit, like players having a toolkit, the toolkit for a fast bowler, the mental aspect of it is probably one of the strongest elements. I mean, we encourage the guys to have cue cards to write down what they did really well, particularly when you get into those moments where things aren't going well.

Briony Brock (59:15)

Thank

Ian (59:40)

you have those two or three weeks where you can't buy a run, you can't buy a wicket. You you start to, that's when the doubt comes in. And it might be the pressure from home. It might be the pressure from school. You might be looking at someone else who's doing well and thinking, well, hang on a minute, my place is up for grabs. See, I mean, it happens at the professional level, obviously, and it's your job, but young kids have it as well. Just as a sidebar, talking about that, I spent a little bit of time with Haryana Cricket Association in India.

and I stayed for a four day game they had against Delhi and Haryana of smaller state compared to Delhi and I expected to lose this game. And there was a discussion on the field the night before the match. We sat around as the twilight was coming and you know, the trees were blowing in the wind and everything. And we just sat on the outfield. And we had a few superstars in our lineup and the head coach spoke and then he said to me, I was consulting on fast bowling. He said, would you like to say anything?

Now, given the culture, a lot of the Indian players are quiet. They sit back. They don't say very much. Even if they don't agree with you, they'll just thank you. I wanted to get a bit deeper into the sort of work that you guys do. I wanted to get a bit deeper into their thought process. So I went around the group. I went to the open batter. A guy called Rahul Dhawan, actually. And I said to him, what's your top score? And he said, at what level? I any. Any. He said, 278.

I said, where was that? said, it was a school match against this team. I said, how did you feel with it? And he said, what a game. And he started to reminisce. And I went to the number two batter and said, what's your top score? It was 300 and something. And I kid you not, I went down the top seven. They were all double or triples, all of them. All of them, their top score. And by the...

by the end of the discussion with the half an hour, the chat amongst the group was electric. were like, know. And some guy said, ⁓ I saw you with that. They were so buzzy. And all I had done was I got them to talk about things that they'd done really well and come back to because they were playing this huge game the next day. And they were feeling a little bit, ⁓ we're going to get smashed by Delhi. As it happened, the match, the

Nathan Wood (1:01:39)

Mm.

Briony Brock (1:01:43)

Mm.

Nathan Wood (1:01:50)

Mm.

Ian (1:02:01)

I think 500 played 500 and we ran out of time, but you know, it's a drawn match, but we played really, really well as a batting unit. But my point was everyone that had got something in their head that was there already, but they hadn't tapped into it because of the environment that was being created wasn't quite right. And I'm a great believer you create the environment and you can get people to apply their great experiences.

Nathan Wood (1:02:10)

Mm.

Mm.

Briony Brock (1:02:22)

Mm.

Ian (1:02:31)

but it will perform or have the best chance of doing it.

Briony Brock (1:02:32)

Yeah, absolutely.

Nathan Wood (1:02:32)

Yeah.

Yeah, the best chance for sure.

Briony Brock (1:02:35)

And that's often something that we kind of deal with when working with people is like they have it all up here. They have the skills, they have the knowledge, they have the experiences. It's just helping them tap into that to get the most out of their performances and feel the best.

Ian (1:02:49)

Let me ask Nathan, you're 155 that you got. How did you feel when you got that?

Nathan Wood (1:02:53)

Well, that's an interesting question. I obviously I felt great, you know, first and only actually first-class century. I was a bit annoyed. I wanted 200. And it was, I remember it was, but somebody bought me a long off and I smashed it straight to Mark Butcher, caught it at Gulley. I walked off feeling a bit deflated, but I was hungry. But I think I was of the era, Ian, where, yeah, you mentioned Graham Gooch, you, before, and he was all about desire.

Briony Brock (1:03:03)

when

Ian (1:03:04)

well I like that, that's good.

Yeah.

Nathan Wood (1:03:22)

big runs. think that was the prevailing attitude of that time. know, 100 is not enough. Go and get 150, go and get 200.

Ian (1:03:31)

I think he called them Daddy hundreds, didn't he?

Briony Brock (1:03:33)

Yes.

Nathan Wood (1:03:34)

Yeah, yeah. He played in my first, in my debut first class match and three Essex players. And I got a good view of this Ian because I was at short leg being junior pro. And three of those Essex players got hundreds. Gooch, Stuart Law and Grayson. ⁓ Gooch was, you know, well into his career then, you know, coming towards the end. But I've got to say it was, it was a class above even, you know, Stuart Law and his pump. He was a fine player, wasn't he? Gooch.

Ian (1:04:04)

Yeah, wonderful, wonderful. I mean, I do remember Essex just very briefly. used to have the four domestic competitions. We used to have a player pool where Man of the Match Awards went into the pool. It shared amongst the squad. And I remember Goochy he'd won in one year, he'd won eight of them. And I think as a team, we'd won 12, he'd won eight. So, you know, I'm getting a cut of this. I'm getting a share of it. And I thought...

Nathan Wood (1:04:27)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ian (1:04:32)

I felt terrible because I thought, well, you could have kept that. I eat awards in the season. But he was a phenomenal cricketer. one thing we're talking about, we're not specifically leadership, but where Graham was very good as a leader was that he did the work himself. He looked after himself. He was fit. He led from the front. And he was someone that you could follow if he went over the top.

you know that he'd be the first one over the top. I came up under Keith Fletcher, who was more of a backseat driver, Captain, who was very clever, very, very intelligent. Yeah, very astute as a and he would say, you need to go over the top. So he'd get you to go to the top. But he was very good at it. And I think there's different styles, but they were both in their way.

Nathan Wood (1:05:11)

Yeah, astute, very astute, yeah.

Briony Brock (1:05:20)

Hmm.

Ian (1:05:29)

They understood the human condition. They understood this part. And I think, look, I think winners have that mindset. It's not necessarily the same mindset, but it's a mindset that works for the squad. We talk about building cultures. They're quite hard sometimes because everybody has to kind of buy into that whole concept. And if you lose part of the changing room, I don't think it works. But the culture stuff and the mindset comes from within everybody in that team.

And once you look up and respect a leader, you've got half a chance.

Briony Brock (1:06:03)

Mm.

Nathan Wood (1:06:03)

Yeah,

absolutely. Gooch held the record for the Man of a Match awards. It's probably broken now, but he actually took the record off my dad, which is a little interesting. So listen, a bit conscious of time. From everything that you've seen across your playing and coaching career, is there ever a point where it's actually the right thing to do for a fast bowler to stop trying to bowl fast and perhaps...

Ian (1:06:13)

⁓ really?

Nathan Wood (1:06:33)

you know, just focus on being a wily medium pacer.

Ian (1:06:39)

Yeah, yeah, I think so. course. There's something slightly incorrect in what you said there. ⁓ if you try to bowl fast, you won't. I knew what you meant. I mean, as in like, your pace up. So I'll give you a very real example. Chris Wokes, his father David's a coach and

Nathan Wood (1:06:51)

Fair point. ⁓

Ian (1:07:02)

David knows a lot about the work that I do because I've been coaching a long time and my work's out there. Some people use it, some don't, some copy it, some apply it, some misappropriate it, whatever, but he's out there. Chris Wokes has got, still had got, one of I would call, in quotes, the best bowling actions, effective biomechanical actions of all the England bowlers. Very simple, very repeatable, relatively stress-free for what it is.

I remember Chris being interviewed probably maybe eight, nine years ago because as a player, unfortunately, he had two people in front of him, Broad and Anderson, and they were the greatest pairing in history, a thousand test wickets. He was not really breaking that mold. So was always going to be a first change bowler at best. And I think given another time, he would have had a better career because he was also a very fine batter, very good all-rounder.

He was interviewed once about his bowling and this plays right back to Nathan what you said about is there a time when you don't want to chase the pace? Given his action he probably bowled 85 to 88 miles an hour. Technically speaking he probably left six or seven miles an hour in his locker. I would say he could have been a 90 with these with his technique he had a lot of headroom in terms of speed.

He never wanted to chase it. He said, I'm really happy doing what I'm doing. And that plays to what you just said there, Nathan. Is there a time when you say, do you know what? I don't want to be eyeballs out trying to bowl under miles an hour like Mark Wood is doing because that is Mark's rationale. He's a sledgehammer, but he's that type of bowler. He's that style of bowler. With Mark Wood, you get every ball 97 miles an hour if he can.

Briony Brock (1:08:42)

Mm.

Ian (1:08:57)

But other bowlers, they're not going to be doing that. What they're going to be doing is Jimmy, actually Jimmy, when he started out with 90 miles an hour, you know, and then he's he settled in. So I think that to answer your question, whether it comes to a player later on, because they're just getting older. But I will finish that whole segment by saying Brett Lee at the age of 40 bowling in his last big bash.

still bowled, he's lost over every ball over 90 miles an hour and he's 40 years old. So there's some bowlers that don't give up and there's some bowlers that actually settle and that's absolutely fine if you're taking wickets. I don't think it matters.

Briony Brock (1:09:35)

Mm-hmm.

What about if with the toll that it takes on the body? How much do you encourage kind of keeping going when it's

Ian (1:09:47)

Well, this, Briony, this comes back to the bowling action itself is if we make an action as relatively stress free as possible, we can we can play for longer. You know, Jimmy at 40 something still producing the goods, you know, what?

Briony Brock (1:09:59)

Hmm. Yeah.

It was more the Markwood,

the Markwood mention.

Ian (1:10:08)

Well, Mark's, unfortunately, you know, he's going to be that he's that type of bowler where he has has a splayed front foot and he does some other things as well. He puts so much force through his body, you know, it's good that something's going to happen. Something's going to break somewhere. I mean, it's an injurious profession. If you're bowling, if you're bowling 100 clicks, as they say, that's a very, very rare speed. the amount of force going through that system is insane. So I want to make sure we got

We got young lads on our academy, hopefully that you'll hear about in the next decade, the names will come along. ⁓ Because of the way we're handling them, hopefully that they will self-organize and whichever counties they're with, they won't dive in and try and stop what they're doing because they are getting the good, I think they're getting the good stuff. Hopefully these kids will organize and the other, there's one final thing. I don't think counties are geared up to coach technical fast bowling. don't.

Briony Brock (1:10:43)

Mm.

Yeah.

Ian (1:11:01)

think they have a system that allows that. They don't have the time. They don't have necessarily the coaching set up to take a player and say, right, we're going to teach you all these things and then monitor it. I think a lot of it is down to the individual. And we just want to make sure that NFBA, working with you guys as well, get the good mental stuff. We get a full package and then we can send people on their merry way.

Nathan Wood (1:11:27)

Talking about Brett Lee, you must have seen him bowl to Piers Morgan in that net. How fast do think he was bowling there? Because he was getting on that net.

Ian (1:11:35)

Well,

if all of 19 yards for a start, wasn't he? mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, was watching that through my fingers, actually, it was just, I mean, I don't know you feel about that. there was a, I played against the West Indies in 1986 or seven or five, 1988. And in those days, the touring teams used to play the counties. So you'd have,

Nathan Wood (1:11:40)

It looked nice to me. ⁓ horrifying.

Mm.

Ian (1:12:03)

maybe they'd play five tests in six counties or eight counties. Essex played Windies and I played against New Zealand before that and then the Windies. They put out their full test side because our overseas player was Alan Border. So we had the Australian captain and Gooch, the England captain, playing in the Essex side and they put out their full test attack and Muggins had to bat a number eight. And I go into bat because whichever end you're at, you're not getting a respite from it. And I felt like Piers Morgan.

Nathan Wood (1:12:16)

Mmm.

Mm.

Briony Brock (1:12:32)

Thanks.

Ian (1:12:32)

I mean, it was just, you know, you're not thinking to yourself, I'll get on the on the front foot and play these elegant cover drives. You're thinking, how do I not die here? You know, how do I actually how do I see it goes back to that famous Michael Holding and Brian Close sequence where Brian Close was was wearing the ball for about five overs. You it's just you get to a point and that comes back to the speed. I think we were talking about.

Nathan Wood (1:12:42)

Mm.

Briony Brock (1:12:42)

Mm.

Ian (1:13:01)

Speed does that. If somebody's bowling that fast, you're feeling physical danger and it's horrendous. It does, yeah.

Nathan Wood (1:13:06)

Changes everything, changes everything. So we

probably do need to start wrapping things up. Before we let you go, what's the one misconception about fast bowling that you'd really like players, parents, coaches to understand just a little bit better?

Ian (1:13:24)

think the biggest misconception is you're born a fast bowler. I mean, it's one of the things that I hear a lot. You're born, you're born anything. You're born, you're born as a little baby, and you learn everything from your experience and what comes your way. I mean, you might have natural attributes, you might be gifted with fast twitch muscle fibers like Usain Bolt Or you might be more athletic than the next one, but you're not born anything. And so I would and I'll just encourage

Nathan Wood (1:13:31)

Yep, true, yeah.

Ian (1:13:53)

people to remember that. And this comes back to the how tall is somebody, you know, blah, blah, blah. I get the tick boxes we have as coaches sometimes, are they athletic? Are they tall? Are they long term athlete development? Do they multi-sport? I get all of that. But this comes back to sticking someone on a pathway and not actually looking at the broader view and saying, do they actually understand what I'm trying to help them with? if you give me 100 fast bowlers, 100 young lads,

I would probably find maybe half a dozen that would not have been thought about as fast bowlers because you've given them the info and they've self-organized. I'm a great believer in the body self-organizes. You can't force it into position. What you can say is try these shapes, see what you think or find your way of getting into these positions. And then once you do that, we can help you. So I say, I always think we're creating a sat nav, but you plot your own journey.

sat nav will get you there. you want to go from Manchester to Leeds, you put the sat nav in, it'll tell you there's traffic on the route, it might reroute you, you'll end up in Leeds. The sat nav doesn't say I don't know where Leeds is, it will do it. And so my job as an NFBA is create that box for you to jump around in basically.

Briony Brock (1:14:58)

you

Nathan Wood (1:14:59)

Thank

I think you're absolutely right with that. what's going through my mind is there was a time in English football where we were just looking for big center forwards, weren't we? at the same time, Messi, little Messi was kind of coming through the ranks. He would never have got through our system. And I think it's, we're in danger sometimes of cricket, of going down that same path. And if you look at all the great players, actually, they do tend to have a bit of difference, don't they? A bit of quirkiness and...

Ian (1:15:20)

Yeah.

Nathan Wood (1:15:39)

They're not all the same. individual difference. right. Final.

Ian (1:15:43)

Yeah.

Well, there's also something to be said for quite an unusual bowling action. If someone's like the mystery spinner or someone's got a weird thing going on, I think in the short term, I mean, once you work them out, it doesn't. I think initially, it actually has a value.

Nathan Wood (1:15:49)

Definitely,

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I mean, there's two bowlers that spring to my mind immediately. One Donald, I faced Donald and it came down very fast. Don't get me wrong, but you got a great sight of it. Someone like Wasim I just couldn't see it. You just can't see it. And that quirkiness, it adds a different layer of complexity for batsmen some times. But final, final question Ian, you've been very generous with your time.

Ian (1:16:24)

It does. Yeah, I agree with you.

Nathan Wood (1:16:31)

Really appreciate that. If you were speaking to a 14 year old fast bowler at the very start of their journey, what's the one piece of advice that you'd help them? Well, to enjoy the journey, but also to give them the best chance of having a long and healthy fast bowling career.

Ian (1:16:52)

Okay, so obviously that's what I do day in day out work with young players. I suppose the message to them is fast bowling hurts. That's the first thing. So kind of kind of make friends with pain because it is a painful thing. If you're to go down the fast, but I'm not to put people off, but I'm just saying it's an injurious sport in itself. You're going to get injured at times. So that's the first thing.

The second part that goes with that is always back yourself because if you're in a position where your backs against the wall, you have to find something extra. And bowlers win matches. Batsmen set games up, but bowlers win matches. if you take 20 wickets, you're probably winning a lot of games of cricket. you're two innings, you're taking the wickets. You can have a poor day.

And then it becomes a great day, as you said, right at the beginning, you can bowl two absolutely horrendous deliveries and pick up a couple of wickets and come off OK. So fast bowling is going to be painful. So get yourself fit, healthy and strong. Get your mindset right to say, I am a specialist in this. This is what I do. And back yourself when you have those horrible days. The final thing, think there's an Arnold Palmer quote. He says, I don't.

win or lose, I just win or learn.

Briony Brock (1:18:22)

Yeah, yeah.

Nathan Wood (1:18:22)

nice, I've not heard

that before, I love that.

Ian (1:18:24)

And I think that the learning part is the bit if I might be so bold to talk about English cricket currently. That's the one thing that we're not doing. We're just losing and we're not learning and we talk about learning. But I think sometimes you have to come right back from that and say we actually learned something from that because if you keep doing it again, you've clearly not learnt it have you My dad said to me once, make as many mistakes as you like, just don't make the same ones. And I think he was right.

Briony Brock (1:18:32)

you

Mm.

Ian (1:18:54)

Because we're guided by errors, aren't we? I got that wrong, I won't do that again. But I've got that wrong, I'm to keep doing it wrong. That doesn't make sense. So that's all I'd say to a young lad. Back yourself and get yourself fit, healthy, and strong. Because it's a hard job, fast,

Nathan Wood (1:19:14)

Brilliant advice Ian, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been absolutely fascinating. We really do appreciate the experience, the insights that you've shared with us today. Before we finish, if people listening or watching would like to find out more about the NFBA, the National Fast Bowling Academy, what's the best way for them to get in touch and learn more?

Ian (1:19:40)

Okay, so we're nfbacricket.com So it's just nfbacricket.com We have ongoing trials. We have an intake each October and it's October through to April for the winter and then we keep in touch with people across the summer. So it's a 12 month process. All of our work is done close season and our trials are 12 months a year. So we have people being added also. We're currently doing video trials at the moment. So people send video trials in.

If you go to NFBAcricket.com, you'll find out how to do that. We then go to places like Edgebaston. We've been to Trent Bridge. We go to Old Trafford if we can hire them and do in-person trials. They happen in the summer. Most of the people that join us are under 18, not exclusively because we have senior players as well in their 20s that have joined us. But most of our players are teenage years, which means that we use school holidays for trials. And all of our sessions are on weekends pretty much through the winter so that everybody can make it.

And nfbacricket.com has got everything you need to know. all up there.

Briony Brock (1:20:41)

And

what's the youngest age you take in?

Ian (1:20:44)

from 9 to 27.

Briony Brock (1:20:46)

Okay,

okay, so could be interesting for a lot of people.

Ian (1:20:49)

We've got about, we currently, we've got 180 fast bowlers because we've got, so we're the world's largest fast bowling academy. We've got six groups. So we've got, each year we have two intakes, like 14s and under 14s and 15s and roughly. And then people want to return. So it's like school. We've got people coming, we've been going eight years. We've got people in their eighth year with us. So they started at 12, they're now 20. Some people join us for a year or two.

Briony Brock (1:21:12)

Mm.

Mm.

Ian (1:21:18)

go to uni, don't come back again. We've had other people at Ollie Sutton, who's at Lancashire, who came with us for a year and got back onto Lancashire staff. And we've had four pros. We have four professionals. So we're quite proud of it. we're only here as a support system. We're not here to replace the counties. We're not doing that. We're here to actually feed people into county cricket. That's what we're trying to do.

Briony Brock (1:21:37)

No.

Nathan Wood (1:21:43)

Brilliant. We'll include those details in the show notes Ian. And as always, if you've been listening or watching and have any questions about this episode or, you know, if you've got an idea for a topic that you'd like us to explore in a future show, then please do get in touch. We'd love to hear from you. we'll again, we'll put those contact details in the show notes. So Ian, thank you very much. And Briony, I think we'll call that Stumps.

Shall we?

Briony Brock (1:22:13)

Yes.

Thanks guys.