Sometimes those of us in technology think that the solution to every
problem is a new piece of gear or a great piece of software.
I've been guilty of this a lot lately when I've been thinking about
how to prevent data exfiltration.
If we could just get the right AI tool in there, we could spot it as
it's happening and shut it down.
This week's guest is a cyber expert who reminded me that I T has three sides.
He thinks the focus should be on process.
Then people then technology.
Hi, I'm w Curtis press an AKA Mr.
Backup.
I've been specializing in backup and Dr for over 30 years.
And I've written four O'Reilly books on the topic like me.
This podcast is dedicated to those of you who are tasked with
the difficult job of backup Dr.
And data protection.
This is backup, centrals, restore it all.
W. Curtis Preston: Hi, and welcome to Backup Central's Restore It All podcast.
I'm your host, W.
Curtis Preston, aka Mr.
Backup, and today I have with me a guy who gave me some really good advice.
It was really good advice up until it wasn't.
Prasanna Malaiyandi How's it going, Prasanna
Prasanna Malaiyandi: I'm good, Curtis.
I'm curious what this good advice is that was good at the time
W. Curtis Preston: this silver bullet that you gave me called the FCC complaint
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, I'm surprised not a lot of people know about this.
if you have an issue with your cell phone provider or your cable company, right?
Or internet provider.
you call them in, you complain to them, they give you the runaround,
and then you spend weeks and weeks, and nothing ever happens.
W. Curtis Preston: and you're not anywhere.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: exactly.
And then you have this magic thing called the FCC, where you can actually file
a complaint, and say, hey, my billing is off, or my service isn't right, and
the provider literally has to respond to you within, I think it's 72 hours.
W. Curtis Preston: I had never heard of such a thing.
And, and being a person who...
Having, worked for the government at a point, I definitely understand
the inefficiency of government.
So the idea that something could be so efficient was definitely.
a surprise.
the last time I did this ironically enough, now, as this story comes full
circle, I was having problems with Cox as my internet, service provider.
I put in an FCC complaint.
And in the end, we did figure out the problem.
And then I changed to Verizon 5G internet.
And everything was fine until it wasn't.
And then I decided to use this magic bullet again.
I got the call within 72 hours.
During the time that they were working on it, it went from being an intermittent
problem to being all the time.
The official response from Verizon is I will obviously be, Paraphrasing
slightly., yeah, you're right.
We suck.
You should probably get a different ISP.
By the way, I'm not just complaining about like low speeds.
My internet would just drop.
Sometimes in the middle of recording one of these episodes, my internet would just
but basically they said the reason your internet is just dropping, it's congestion
and you should probably get another ISP.
That was their official response.
I was.
dumbfounded, right?
So again, story come full circle, Cox will be back, in six days, they
will be installing the fiber version, because I don't have a lot of choices.
Our guest today is the host of the cyber pros podcast, a short form
podcast, which by the way, it makes it very different from this podcast.
A short form podcast that has five questions and nine minutes.
He's our second former special forces member and we're excited
to have him on the podcast.
Welcome to the show, Rick Mischka.
Rick Mischka: Hello, gents.
W. Curtis Preston: So what do you cover in nine minutes on that podcast
Rick Mischka: Yeah, you know, in 2020 I got bored and I wanted to build a
cybersecurity network and I want to do it fast and So we had the idea
of doing a short form kind of video podcast that that would be be quick.
We actually thought six minutes could fit in in six questions could fit in nine
minutes, but we were way wrong on that.
So, so we pivoted down to five.
And, and honestly, the first and last question are more, you know, who are you?
What do you do?
And then.
You know, tell us a fun story or typically we ask, you know, what's your
favorite piece of retro technology?
The three middle questions are really the ones that we get kind
of the, the meat of conversation.
And it's, it's, you know, why do you love being a cybersecurity professional?
Why do you think cybersecurity should, or is, or isn't a top concern?
And then just what insights do you want to share?
Whatever they share with us in those five questions, we then
actually do something interesting.
We, we.
We record bonus content afterwards, and we focus that bonus content
on one, education, two, a little bit of marketing, and then three,
we focus on knowledge, right?
Just, just what knowledge do they want to share even more of?
And we typically do that in 30 seconds to three minutes.
And so now...
Our podcast guests get a full week of exposure.
They get the full podcast release.
They get a bunch of bonus contests released around it.
We're able to bring in a lot of people through a number of different doors.
And man, it's, it's just been a lot of fun.
I've been able to connect a lot of people to, to really
just kind of grow the network.
You know, a couple of the podcast guests got together and wrote a book.
A couple of the podcast guests got together and started a company.
So.
Awesome, right?
So been fun.
Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston: I like it I'd like to hear the five questions
So they're the same five questions for everybody
Rick Mischka: typically, unless we get somebody who's a specialist
in something, so it's who are you and what do you do, right?
That's We'll call that one question.
And then why do you love being a cybersecurity professional?
That question will change if they're a professional in cloud, if data backup, you
know, so if you were on, we would ask you that question a little bit differently.
And then the third question we ask, you know, cybersecurity is a top concern.
Do you believe that's true?
And in, in the industry you're in, how does that, how does that interact?
And then the fourth question is just.
What insight do you want to share?
Here's your, you know, if you've done your job, you have five minutes to talk
and, and about anything you want to talk
and then.
If you're a first time guest, we always ask if, what's your favorite
piece of retro technology is.
Usually I get some, you know, usually I get all sorts of things.
Usually it's, you know, Apple computers, Commodores, things like that.
I had somebody come back and say the, the semi automatic pistol.
And I was like, that's technology.
So here we go.
We're going down to completely different conversation.
And I have to laugh.
I actually useless trivia.
I actually just bought one of my favorite pieces of retro
technology in its new form.
The Motorola Razr.
So I have newest, the newest flip phone version, and it's so cool
because you can actually set it to, show you as if you were using
the original Motorola Razr, it's
Prasanna Malaiyandi: that is awesome.
Rick Mischka: Yeah,
W. Curtis Preston: I
had the original Motorola Razr
Rick Mischka: as did I.
And so it's fun.
I get to be the butt of my own question.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: What is probably one of the most interesting
insights from cybersecurity answers that you've received?
Rick Mischka: Yeah.
You know, actually I'll start with the one I get the most of.
The most insights I get are the idea that cybersecurity has
to focus on the people, right?
Dozens of different ways that conversation plays out, but that's the most talked
about is, is the people, cybersecurity, burnout, talent acquisition, security
gap, whatever that looks like, and it's, it's quite interesting, but the
most interesting one that I've ever had was actually the use of artificial
intelligence and machine learning as it pertains to cybersecurity.
And biometrics and the insights that they shared were fascinating because their
company had just gotten acquired, was, was putting a bunch of venture capital dollars
into this solution that were actually selling some of the, the solution to.
Tesla, the way you walk up to your car will unlock the car for you
because it knows your gate, along with facial rec and other biometrics.
And it's fascinating.
It was, it was mind blowing what can do.
So
Prasanna Malaiyandi: it's interesting you bring that up, Rick.
So recently my wife and I, we binge watched all the Mission Impossible movies.
And there's, I don't know if you remember, but there's a one Mission Impossible
where it's like, they have to imitate to be the guy and walk through a secure
area where it does a gait analysis.
And I was just thinking, I was like, wow, technology it's come.
It's like real now.
or the other day I was watching Minority Report.
It's like all this stuff they're doing.
It's that's now become like reality.
Rick Mischka: You should add the Mission Impossible theme to the start of, of this
podcast
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah I just rewatched that one again to Prasanna and of course
that technology was defeated by uploading a different gate analysis The first time
I saw a computer used to do something that that literally I went wow actually
okay The very first thing I remember seeing a computer do something that made
me do wow was when I was in my teens you could go to a police station in Kissimmee
Florida That's where I was from And you could give them an address and they
could print out turn by turn directions of how to get to there And I remember
going That's the most amazing I've ever seen but the second thing was I was a
consultant at a communications company that was using simulation modeling in
a computer to test their device like to harden their device by like in a
computer hitting it with a softball in a computer dropping that device on the
ground Do you know what that device was
Rick Mischka: The Nokia phone from back in the day?
W. Curtis Preston: It was the Motorola Razr my friend
Rick Mischka: Fair, there's the full circle.
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah Yeah I was working at Motorola in Schaumburg Illinois
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Crazy.
W. Curtis Preston: yeah it was amazing to me what they do One of the things I'm
very concerned about is data exfiltration cause as a backup and recovery person
I can stop a lot of things I can stop a pure ransomware attack by just restoring
the data but what I can't stop if the data is exfiltrated there's nothing I
can do So the question is so I think that AI and ML are the next thing for
basically doing the equivalent of gate analysis on the outgoing traffic for a
typical company and then noticing when something is very different and calling
it out and stopping it automatically So far I'm not hearing A lot of
agreement on that when I talk to folks
Prasanna Malaiyandi: are you talking mainly Curtis about
anomaly detection based on
W. Curtis Preston: Yes
Prasanna Malaiyandi: looking for data exfiltration?
Okay.
W. Curtis Preston: Yes
Rick Mischka: Yeah, I mean, I will say, I think people got a little out over their
skis looking at, you know, unsupervised machine learning and trying to train
it to baseline and then anomaly detect.
And you end up with either a lot of false positives or you end up with...
Just a lot of data that the machine learning model is still working on.
And I think the world is seeing kind of, I don't want to call it a
reversion, but an add in to a lot of that unsupervised machine learning
with supervised machine learning.
That's trained on data models of both benign and malicious data
that allows those supervised models to say, okay, here's the 14 or 40
or whatever number you want of.
Threat vectors that we know, right?
EXE files, documents, things like that.
When you have as much data as we have now, you can train these supervised
machine learning models to say, Oh, 98, 99 percent of the time we can catch
something and we don't need anomaly.
And so I think that was the miss for, for me, that's what I'm seeing is people
jump right to unsupervised thinking that anomaly detection was the only way.
And we went from signature known crap to let's figure out what the user is doing
and hope their behavior doesn't change.
And they missed the step.
And I think, you know, good companies, EDR endpoint detection response
vendors, a lot of the new managed detection response solutions that
are bringing in XDR solutions.
have realized that and they can make that model better by adding
in a supervised model as well.
I, I think that's the path we need to get to, to actually
see it be extremely useful, but
Prasanna Malaiyandi: I think one of the challenges also with anomaly detection
is, especially with these unsupervised models, you get so many sort of false
positives, where it's hey, the user just did something different, but it's normal.
And the model has never seen it before.
And of course, it's going to flag something.
And as a, as a security engineer trying to go through those logs and figure
out, okay, what's a real threat, what is a false positive, that kills so much
of your time that what I've heard is a lot of people are like, screw it, it's
not worth it, let me just turn it off.
Rick Mischka: It's true.
And, and, and, you know, I think the other thing that, that people forgot was
They jumped towards the technology and they forgot that there's a whole lot of
process and people that need to be in place for the, for the technology to work.
you know, I know everybody knows the PBT framework.
It's, it's used in almost every technology model ever.
it was actually created in the sixties by a guy by the name of
Harold Levitt as the diamond model.
There was four points to it, but when we do.
An analysis of somebody's cybersecurity posture doesn't matter what machine
learning models doesn't matter what technology they have for us.
The technology is only about 10 percent of the solution that we
present that they should be looking at.
And we talk about, okay.
30 percent is, is, is the people.
Can you provide those?
Do you need people to be outsourced or managed from, you
know, managed service provider?
And then 60 percent of it is, here's your process.
If you have a good process, the technology will work, but most people
just, like you said, turn it on.
All of a sudden they have triple the, the, the alerts and they
don't know how to handle it.
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah it's interesting I think that was a good point about that
people think that technology is just going to solve the problem when in reality Even
if the it was able to detect an anomaly there's still a human being That is going
to have to read that information view that information and respond to that
information because you're not at least I wouldn't think the average person is
not going to automatically start shutting off outgoing communications based on an
anomaly especially if there's so many false positives So there's got to be
that person involved Rick I'd like to ask you about that 30 60 percent that's
it's interesting that you put so much focus on the process like it felt I don't
know if anything I if I was guessing I'd be like 50 50 between the people
and the process thoughts about that
Rick Mischka: you know, I think, I think we all agree that the technology
is, is just a component, right?
It's, it's supposed to make us better, faster, easier,
whatever they want to look at.
And some would argue that the people side of the house should be, you know, higher
rated, higher percentage of what you do.
In today's world where we automate a lot of things, you can remove a human
for, you know, X number of automations that you do, but I'm going to take it
even further as to why we place such an emphasis on the process side, and
that's everything a company focuses on their business objectives, their
continuity, their resilience, right?
None of those are cyber security based, but all of those have to have
a process in place for people to know.
Hey, that's what my job is.
That's what I'm supposed to be doing to progress this company,
to make more revenue, to drive bottom bottom line goals.
And so.
If you can create great process, you create great culture and you don't
need as many humans because the humans you have are able to just do more.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: You're being more efficient with what you have rather
than trying to add a whole bunch of more people to make up for the lack of process
Rick Mischka: said it so much better in 12 seconds.
W. Curtis Preston: You should have them on your nine minute podcast Sure
Rick Mischka: Perfect.
W. Curtis Preston: Rick based on all the people that you've talked to what
do you think are one of the things that we like to ask people is if you were if
you had carte blanche at an environment What are the the top five things that you
think people maybe aren't doing that they should be doing right So we can throw
out the for me the three obvious ones right Good password management MFA And
patch management right So assuming that we're doing those three things what else
do you think companies should be doing
Rick Mischka: For me, the first one I always tell companies is, is create
an incident response plan that allows you to grow cybersecurity culture.
But that cybersecurity isn't thing that's controlling your business.
I think too many times they're like, well, I'm, I'm beholden to this regulation
or I have this type of data that I have to secure and they, they stop doing
good business to do good cybersecurity.
And I think you you can flip that around.
Quite a bit.
And I think, you know, that that's one of the top ones for me.
The second one, it really focuses on the human side, the people side.
everyone makes the joke, we need cybersecurity
professionals and we want to.
You know, we want somebody who's new to the business, but we need them to have a
CISSP and 14 years of experience, right?
So, entry level position and, and I just, whenever I talk to, you know,
small to mid sized businesses or mid market folks, I explain to them, go find
somebody who's hungry to do the job.
And train them how you want the job done or, or, or paid for their training to
get the job to where they need to be.
And you don't need somebody who has a CISSP.
You don't even need somebody who has a degree.
If you have somebody who's hungry, who's done the certification bootcamps, they're
willing to step in and learn, likely stay with you longer for those reasons.
And I think, you know, even the big enterprise companies are starting
to finally have this moment.
If I go get the college grad.
And I trained him and get him a bunch of certifications in that first year.
He or she is going to stay far longer.
The third thing I would say is you need to understand your
cybersecurity edges, right?
Are you a fully cloud edge?
And do you know what that means, right?
You're using AWS or Azure, but you're also using software as a service applications.
Do you understand the differences?
Do you understand that there's an endpoint edge?
Every user is on an endpoint, so how can you protect your users from
themselves by finding a solution that matches your needs on those endpoints?
And then your network.
Some people don't have a network, and that's okay, right?
They've gone straight, you know, VPN to the internet, call it good.
But understand what those three are, understand how you, how you can cover
those, and that will lead you down a really good cybersecurity journey.
And lastly, Here's my brown nose moment for you guys.
I recommend that everybody understands what actual data backup needs to mean to
them
So if they have an incident, they can recover and not rely on their insurance
company to provide them with investigators and forensics and responders, and
then not pay them anyways, so.
Those are my four.
Those are the four I tend to talk about the most.
W. Curtis Preston: Go
That my
that's
my world cup moment there what do you
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh I like those four ideas or things that people should be
considering Rick for the first one when you're talking about the incident response
do you find that a lot of companies are woefully prepared they're ostrich with
head buried in the sand It's not going to happen to me I don't need to worry
about this sort of thing Or do you think that's started to change given all the
recent activity around ransomware and data exfiltration and other things like that
Rick Mischka: I think it's changing.
I don't think, I don't think we're anywhere near where it needs to be.
I believe people are starting to have those moments where, well,
do I have a continuity plan?
Right?
A lot of companies I talked to, they're like, well, we have, we
have a disaster recovery plan.
And I'm like, okay, that's great.
Right?
If, if a hurricane hits you, you know how to fix the problem.
But An incident response plan can encompass your business continuity, your
disaster recovery, and all of your, your security systems planning in one document.
And if it's done correctly, I think what most people say
is, well, we have the plan.
Have you tested it?
Have you played the tabletop?
All right, let's nerd out.
And, and even though you might have never played Dungeons and Dragons, let's go play
the tabletop game with, you know, whatever you want to play, get your entire group
in, and let's see what it looks like.
Usually the point that it fails on is not on the catching of it,
not on the data backing up, right?
Not on, on recovery.
It's, it's on, Communication.
don't follow or have a good communication path, which leads to their cyber
insurance company telling them, Oh, you didn't meet our requirements.
We're not paying you for what you had to do to go recover.
And they also forget about the legal aspect.
You know, they're, they think, Oh, I need an attorney after the
fact to help me understand what my Requirements are to my customers.
If I've given up my customer data or my employees, if I've given
up their data, they don't realize
what was that
Prasanna Malaiyandi: That's too late though right
Rick Mischka: it's too late.
And, and what they don't realize is you can actually protect.
and get under that, that, that lawyer umbrella, that cone of
silence, you know, as it were, you can get on that early as you're
creating the incident response plan.
You can have somebody that looks at that plan and says, okay, you now have a,
you know, an attorney client privilege.
You don't have to share some of this information with your insurance company.
You don't have to share this with the general public and here's why.
And so moving the legal and the communication stuff up earlier
in the plan and really hammering it home, the rest of the plan is.
process and technology, right?
Let's be real.
It's, Oh, we found the problem.
We fixed the problem.
So, you know, those are, I think that's the interesting part that people are
starting to finally get this, Hey, wait, there are, there are attorneys,
there are insurance companies out there who are just, you know, available,
but not available at the end.
Let's, let's see how we can move this forward.
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah that would be my I've been pretty consistent with that as
well that basically probably the biggest point of having these discussions up front
with creating that incident response plan and doing those tabletop exercises and by
the way for the record I never played D D But but I like the idea of a tabletop
exercise but I'm just not I'm just not that big of a nerd but I love all the D
nerds but they wouldn't let me play anyway sorry I'm a sad childhood That you're even
excluded from nerdhood but I digress The thing that we talk about this a lot is
this idea of creating those relationships up front Don't have an incident and
then Oh we need to find a cyber security firm We need to find a lawyer We need to
find whatever you need to create those relationships up front because it's like
having a large company in the United States and not having a legal department
I don't know how it is in other parts of the world but we live in such a litigious
society You're going to be sued for something And so you have to have a lawyer
right and of course you have to have a lawyer hopefully so that you have the
right paperwork so that you don't get sued But then you have a lawyer in case you
do get sued You need a cybersecurity team and you need cybersecurity professionals
on your side so that when you get a cyber attack because it is a when not an
if You have those people in your corner right Does that match what you're saying
Rick Mischka: Spot on.
Yeah.
And it goes back to what we talked about, about that 60 percent process.
If you have an incident response plan, there's your process.
And all you do is go and say, yep, we know this works.
Just follow the process.
So,
Prasanna Malaiyandi: I like that I also wanted to touch just given our area
that we always like to talk about I'm glad that you talked about backup Rick
because I feel that a lot of times people forget about it when it comes to sort
of incident responses Or even like you said try doing like the tabletop exercise
try out the thing right Even for backup It's like how often do people go verify
Do their backups work Are they able to recover their data or are they able to
test out their disaster recovery plans I think that becomes really important as
part of the process Piece and spelling out Yes periodically you do want to test
these things to make sure that things are still working because the last
thing you want is hey you got attacked Now you need to recover Oops I forgot
to do this or oops I forgot to do that And so now your environment's kind of
in shambles and you're all scrambling trying to get things back up and running
Rick Mischka: or they just haven't hardened their backups because
they haven't checked them in, in, you know, three months and
now your backups are just as bad.
what just
X filled.
So hopefully that doesn't happen, but it can.
So
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah The backups are increasingly both a target in terms of
to take them out so that the cyber attack will be more successful and also to use
them as a source for data exfiltration I'm trying to raise the awareness of that
within the cybersecurity world And so if the cyber folks hear anything from me it
should be that somewhere in the corner you talk about that hiring a college
kid and then training them right That's there's also normally a college kid
Maybe not even a college kid That's the person in the corner doing the backups
because it was the only job he could get and he didn't necessarily he's not
that person you were when you said when you were talking about find the person
who has the desire to do this job that's hungry often with the backup the person
was just hungry for a job they weren't hungry necessarily for the site for the
Doing the backups No one is no one's in college going man I really hoped that
somebody hires me as a backup admin
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Except you Mr Backup Except
W. Curtis Preston: no not even I know no this is yeah it's how I got my
job I wanted to be in computers I did want to be in computers and I took
the job as backup person Because that was the job I could get and it got
me into the big bank and and then I just Accidentally never got out of it
So that's how I ended up specializing
in
Prasanna Malaiyandi: as I say.
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah the rest is history yeah I like
that I really like this idea, of figuring out where your edges are.
Because back in the day, right?
The edges were the edge of the building, right?
Nobody had computers outside the building.
All the computers were inside the building.
We had a data center.
It was the center of the data, right?
That was the way that things were, but now your edges are everywhere, right?
there, all this work from home that's going on, and the SaaS and the, the
cloud data centers, the PaaS services.
You're, you are, I wonder if you don't have a handle on that today,
how does one go about, figuring out where their IT department has scrawled
to, I can't imagine how you could start doing something like that.
Rick Mischka: know, I've, I've seen an interesting trend
of companies who have gone.
The way of not having any location, my wife's company actually has done that.
They have no buildings that they pay rent for.
They provide a stipend for every one of their employees to go find a coworking
space, which is, which really cool for them, but now you're on public wifi for
the most part, and they don't have any.
Firewalls, they have no network security.
Everything they, they do is, is, in the cloud, right?
Access is through a SaaS application and they made the intelligent
decision that they didn't need all of this network security they needed
to make sure that their employees were protected on the end points.
Right?
Typically a laptop provided to them or a mobile device.
And then they took it one step further and said, all of our data is in the cloud.
They're accessing everything that's somewhere in the cloud.
We need a security broker.
We need a workload protection solution.
And that's how we're covering our edges.
But there's still people hanging on to, well, I need all three edges.
Do you?
I don't, I don't know, but understand why you think you need that.
The most important edge today is, is wherever your users are accessing
the data, find a way to secure that.
And you've secured a majority of, of.
Now, that doesn't mean you can't still have your users click on something stupid.
you can't train stupidity.
So, it's gonna happen.
But at least if you have protection where they're clicking on it,
hopefully you'll catch it a lot sooner.
or worst case...
You fall back to your data backups who are far more protected from someone like you
or the, or the kid that just wanted a job.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah.
or, and the other thing is hopefully you can also reduce the blast radius, right?
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.
And you've got to do both.
You've got to train the users.
And then you've got to.
Prepare to respond when the users don't do what you trained them to do.
I mentioned this a lot on the podcast, but at that bank where I worked, we
constantly trained new employees that one of the things that we always told
them over and over again is no one in the IT department will ever call
you and ask you for your password.
And then the next day after their new employee training, we would call
them and ask them for their password.
And they would give it to us a sadly high percentage of the time.
And, people will, and sometimes you'll just access sometimes
you'll, it takes a moment Of just not paying attention, right?
A little bit too much muscle memory, clicking on something.
so even smart people that are trained and normally do the right thing
can also click on the wrong thing.
I know, I remember doing that once when I thought I was talking to
LifeLock because my employer at the time had subscribed us all to LifeLock.
it was a spear phishing attack because, it was like they knew
that I was using LifeLock.
And so they went right after me, or maybe it was just, I don't know if it was just
a random phishing attack, but, but I logged into what I thought was my LifeLock
account and, it very much was not, and I immediately did all the I needed to do.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah.
I also remember the other story, Curtis, you told, just going
back to muscle memory, right?
It's, I remember you had a story where, You got an MFA request and
you're like, but I don't remember making that MFA request, remember?
And were like, yeah, but you actually did do that, right?
And it's I think it can go both ways, right?
The muscle
W. Curtis Preston: yeah, absolutely.
I remember that where I got an MFA request and via muscle memory, I was like, yeah.
Boom.
And then I was like, wait.
what did I just do?
What did I just approve?
And what it was because I had opened up, Chrome and it had 37 tabs and one
of those tabs was authentication via that, the system that was doing an MFA.
So I breathe the sigh of relief.
I appreciate those four things.
see Rick, we probably could have done this podcast in nine minutes,
and done just those four things.
we should all be like you.
I appreciate brevity where I find it.
but no one ever finds it on this podcast.
so thanks.
Thanks a lot, Rick, for coming on and talking about, one
of our favorite subjects.
Rick Mischka: thank you guys for having me.
This was so much fun.
W. Curtis Preston: And, thanks Prasanna for reminding me of that sad
moment in, in my personal history.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Anytime, Curtis.
I always try to bring you down.
And Rick, it was as well
W. Curtis Preston: All right.
Thanks again to our listeners.
we'd be nothing without you.
Be sure to subscribe on, wherever you listen to the podcast so
that you can restore it all.