1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,859
there is no amount of
marketing that overcomes.

2
00:00:02,954 --> 00:00:03,854
A bad product.

3
00:00:03,896 --> 00:00:07,446
even if it's true for that,
some, you know, 3 months, 6

4
00:00:07,466 --> 00:00:10,466
months, 12 months, like over
the very long period of time,

5
00:00:11,396 --> 00:00:14,546
you know, the reputation in
the product is the ultimate,

6
00:00:14,756 --> 00:00:15,956
you know, determinant of value

7
00:00:15,956 --> 00:00:18,746
impatience with action, patience
with results, I think that

8
00:00:18,746 --> 00:00:20,426
like defines the trust thing.

9
00:00:20,456 --> 00:00:22,376
Authors now have their own audience.

10
00:00:22,706 --> 00:00:25,526
They can sell directly through
their website or, you know, link

11
00:00:25,526 --> 00:00:27,536
people directly from their social
media, their newsletter, whatever.

12
00:00:27,896 --> 00:00:29,488
they may give away a thousand books.

13
00:00:29,608 --> 00:00:30,386
Exactly.

14
00:00:30,504 --> 00:00:34,228
But they'll get $10 million in
business to their core business

15
00:00:34,288 --> 00:00:37,498
or raise a hundreds of millions
of dollars as a result of

16
00:00:37,498 --> 00:00:39,628
having that book out there and
getting it into the right hands

17
00:00:39,688 --> 00:00:42,028
show me another marketing channel
that like makes you money,

18
00:00:42,538 --> 00:00:46,288
builds trust at a deep level and
creates like high intent inbound

19
00:00:49,588 --> 00:00:51,178
Eric, it's good to
have you here, brother.

20
00:00:51,808 --> 00:00:55,078
and I'm happy we get to connect
and I've been reading this, this

21
00:00:55,078 --> 00:00:58,168
is actually, this book here has
been by my bedside for years now

22
00:00:58,168 --> 00:01:03,628
since it came out The Almanac of
Naval Akan, where you, I dunno

23
00:01:03,628 --> 00:01:07,108
if you, yeah, I would, maybe you
were the curator of that book.

24
00:01:07,798 --> 00:01:07,918
the

25
00:01:08,038 --> 00:01:10,978
I never, I never really know
what, what verb to use, 'cause

26
00:01:10,978 --> 00:01:13,858
write doesn't, you know,
write, build, edit, curate,

27
00:01:14,158 --> 00:01:15,718
create whatever you want to do.

28
00:01:16,453 --> 00:01:17,743
But you're obviously
doing a lot more.

29
00:01:17,743 --> 00:01:20,893
But that's, that was the first
time, you know, I was introduced

30
00:01:20,893 --> 00:01:23,803
to your way of thinking and
just like the sheer massive,

31
00:01:23,863 --> 00:01:26,083
like just the work that would
go into something like that.

32
00:01:26,413 --> 00:01:30,253
I would love to dive in later
on that, but I mean, yourself,

33
00:01:30,253 --> 00:01:32,953
man, you're doing some, some
very interesting things.

34
00:01:32,953 --> 00:01:37,573
You know, scribe media is,
is, you're the CEO over there.

35
00:01:37,573 --> 00:01:40,543
So I mean, I guess how are
you doing, you know, how are,

36
00:01:40,603 --> 00:01:41,503
how are things right now?

37
00:01:41,503 --> 00:01:42,343
Let's start there.

38
00:01:42,343 --> 00:01:42,673
Like,

39
00:01:42,973 --> 00:01:44,278
I'm, I'm learning to juggle.

40
00:01:44,278 --> 00:01:45,118
I'm learning to juggle.

41
00:01:45,148 --> 00:01:49,947
It's, you know, it's, it's hard
to, Split your attention across

42
00:01:49,947 --> 00:01:51,147
a handful of different projects.

43
00:01:51,147 --> 00:01:52,767
But, it's also really fun.

44
00:01:52,797 --> 00:01:54,957
And I think, you know, you,
you just try to stay in a place

45
00:01:54,957 --> 00:01:59,547
where you take the perspective,
you know, look for synergies,

46
00:01:59,547 --> 00:02:01,917
not, not distractions.

47
00:02:02,457 --> 00:02:04,317
so find ways that things
can like feed each other

48
00:02:04,317 --> 00:02:05,757
and stack on each other.

49
00:02:05,757 --> 00:02:09,117
And, you know, my, buddy David
Center's got a great line.

50
00:02:09,117 --> 00:02:12,017
It's like opportunity, well handled
leads to more opportunity and

51
00:02:12,317 --> 00:02:12,477
true.

52
00:02:12,627 --> 00:02:12,917
Yeah.

53
00:02:13,227 --> 00:02:16,017
as sort of you, if you do
something well, it unlocks new

54
00:02:16,017 --> 00:02:19,782
opportunities and, The opportunity
cost of your time should

55
00:02:19,782 --> 00:02:21,042
continue to go up over time.

56
00:02:21,042 --> 00:02:22,422
Like that's a good problem to have.

57
00:02:22,902 --> 00:02:26,052
And yeah, you just end up with
a lot of balls in the air.

58
00:02:26,187 --> 00:02:26,337
Yeah.

59
00:02:27,147 --> 00:02:29,577
And you probably get used to
it just even more and more.

60
00:02:29,652 --> 00:02:30,222
I hope so,

61
00:02:31,797 --> 00:02:32,487
one day, one day.

62
00:02:32,592 --> 00:02:33,072
one day.

63
00:02:33,372 --> 00:02:35,952
Well, I mean, I'm, I'm so
intrigued by the story.

64
00:02:35,952 --> 00:02:38,232
Like I was mentioning, you
know, I've, I've known about

65
00:02:38,232 --> 00:02:39,762
Scribe for a lot of years.

66
00:02:39,762 --> 00:02:43,152
I've seen, you know, Tucker
and Tucker Max speak about it.

67
00:02:43,332 --> 00:02:44,652
I think he was one of
the founders, right?

68
00:02:44,652 --> 00:02:45,402
Or co-founders.

69
00:02:45,807 --> 00:02:46,197
Founder.

70
00:02:46,197 --> 00:02:46,497
Yeah.

71
00:02:46,497 --> 00:02:49,467
Tucker and, Zach Obrat were
the co-founders of Scribe.

72
00:02:49,812 --> 00:02:50,352
that's right.

73
00:02:50,382 --> 00:02:50,652
Yeah.

74
00:02:50,652 --> 00:02:52,602
So, I mean, interesting story.

75
00:02:52,602 --> 00:02:54,702
I would love for you to
break things down, but you're

76
00:02:54,762 --> 00:02:56,562
at the helm right now and.

77
00:02:57,207 --> 00:02:57,837
I guess, yeah.

78
00:02:57,867 --> 00:02:59,727
Where would you wanna
start with that?

79
00:02:59,757 --> 00:03:01,527
'cause I have some, I have some
questions and thoughts, but I mean,

80
00:03:01,527 --> 00:03:05,517
like this episode I feel like is,
it'd be a great journey about what

81
00:03:05,517 --> 00:03:10,047
you've gone starting as an author,
a writer, and now wrote thing.

82
00:03:10,366 --> 00:03:10,666
Yeah.

83
00:03:10,666 --> 00:03:10,966
Cool.

84
00:03:10,966 --> 00:03:13,906
Yeah, so I'll, if I do maybe
the story of Scribe and the

85
00:03:13,906 --> 00:03:16,726
story of Eric and they'll,
they'll merge, in the third act.

86
00:03:16,726 --> 00:03:20,746
But, we've got, like you mentioned,
it's the right place to start.

87
00:03:20,746 --> 00:03:23,806
Tucker Max and Zach obrien and
Tucker is, you know, for people

88
00:03:23,806 --> 00:03:26,956
who haven't heard of him, a very
successful author, he's one of the

89
00:03:26,956 --> 00:03:29,116
original like, blog to book guys.

90
00:03:30,781 --> 00:03:33,001
I mean, millions and millions
of copies sold multiple times.

91
00:03:33,001 --> 00:03:33,871
New York Times best seller.

92
00:03:34,681 --> 00:03:36,421
and so he got all these
calls from friends, so

93
00:03:36,541 --> 00:03:38,071
hilarious, hilarious guy.

94
00:03:38,791 --> 00:03:40,501
like pathologically honest.

95
00:03:41,371 --> 00:03:42,961
just a really, really
interesting dude.

96
00:03:43,696 --> 00:03:47,506
And, he's, you know, we were sort
of reading each other's blogs

97
00:03:47,506 --> 00:03:48,946
early on as he was starting Scribe.

98
00:03:48,946 --> 00:03:51,226
So I also had been following
Scribe since the very beginning.

99
00:03:51,226 --> 00:03:54,406
And I think the vision that they
had for where publishing was

100
00:03:54,406 --> 00:03:58,276
heading was incredible and even
more incredible 10 years ago.

101
00:03:58,546 --> 00:04:01,456
And they've really like the, sort
of the increased rise in hybrid

102
00:04:01,456 --> 00:04:02,956
and people leaving the traditional.

103
00:04:02,966 --> 00:04:05,396
You know, leaders leaving the
traditional publishing and setting

104
00:04:05,396 --> 00:04:08,546
up their own kind of more unique
models that are closer to what

105
00:04:08,546 --> 00:04:12,026
Scribe has done are all like
really interesting sort of proof

106
00:04:12,026 --> 00:04:13,766
points of their original vision.

107
00:04:14,216 --> 00:04:17,336
And, you know, over 10
years they built up this

108
00:04:17,336 --> 00:04:18,986
really impressive company.

109
00:04:19,526 --> 00:04:23,006
you know, they, I think it was
originally it was like bootstrapped

110
00:04:23,006 --> 00:04:26,516
and grew like crazy, grew up to,
you know, tens of millions and,

111
00:04:27,056 --> 00:04:28,346
you know, dozens of employees.

112
00:04:28,736 --> 00:04:30,716
And after eight years
or so, they were.

113
00:04:30,931 --> 00:04:33,151
You know, they're founders and
they're ready to go do other stuff.

114
00:04:33,211 --> 00:04:36,631
Tucker has a family and he's, kind
of ready to retiring, go do his

115
00:04:36,631 --> 00:04:37,831
ranching and write his memoir.

116
00:04:38,221 --> 00:04:41,941
And, and, and Zach on the other
side is like a super genius and

117
00:04:41,941 --> 00:04:45,901
he went off and did, he became
one of the biggest like bug bounty

118
00:04:45,901 --> 00:04:48,001
hunters in the Ethereum ecosystem.

119
00:04:48,361 --> 00:04:50,251
So he's like in the crypto
world and they totally

120
00:04:50,251 --> 00:04:51,261
went different directions.

121
00:04:52,681 --> 00:04:55,291
Like both brilliant and
interesting and awesome guys.

122
00:04:55,621 --> 00:05:00,391
And, as they stepped back from the
company, the guy who, who they had

123
00:05:00,391 --> 00:05:04,171
hired as CEO before and who sort
of took sole control of the company

124
00:05:04,171 --> 00:05:08,761
after they left, I, it went off
the rails a little bit, like, and

125
00:05:08,761 --> 00:05:11,371
a little bit turned into a lot and
there's a very, like Tucker wrote

126
00:05:11,371 --> 00:05:14,971
an incredible kind of postmortem
about this whole thing and some

127
00:05:14,971 --> 00:05:19,171
of the psychological he did in
that post where I think no other.

128
00:05:19,451 --> 00:05:23,081
Business case study I've ever read
has done, which is understand the

129
00:05:23,081 --> 00:05:27,461
psychology of the leader that led
to the mistakes in the business.

130
00:05:27,461 --> 00:05:30,281
And then ultimately the,
you know, the outcome that,

131
00:05:32,021 --> 00:05:33,191
affected so many people.

132
00:05:33,191 --> 00:05:37,961
It, it ended up being, quite
an ugly bankruptcy actually,

133
00:05:37,991 --> 00:05:39,096
which I got caught up in.

134
00:05:40,061 --> 00:05:40,351
so

135
00:05:40,651 --> 00:05:41,611
an author right?

136
00:05:41,611 --> 00:05:41,851
At the

137
00:05:42,151 --> 00:05:46,181
yeah, so, so that's like smash
cut back to like act one of Eric.

138
00:05:46,661 --> 00:05:47,891
like I, you know.

139
00:05:48,841 --> 00:05:50,641
Came from the venture
backed startup world.

140
00:05:50,881 --> 00:05:53,851
I've always been a, a, like
a big reader and writer,

141
00:05:53,851 --> 00:05:55,051
and I love, like tweeting.

142
00:05:55,051 --> 00:05:55,801
Turned into blogging.

143
00:05:55,801 --> 00:05:58,891
Blogging, turned into writing
this book, the Almanac Naval.

144
00:05:58,891 --> 00:06:02,971
And, since Tucker, I'd been reading
his blog and following him and, he

145
00:06:02,971 --> 00:06:04,891
was just one of the first people I
reached out to and I was starting

146
00:06:04,891 --> 00:06:05,971
to talk to authors about, like, I.

147
00:06:06,691 --> 00:06:08,221
How do you navigate this
world of publishing?

148
00:06:08,251 --> 00:06:09,091
What are the options?

149
00:06:09,091 --> 00:06:10,081
It's very confusing.

150
00:06:10,081 --> 00:06:11,341
It's only gotten more confusing.

151
00:06:12,241 --> 00:06:16,231
so he was kind enough to take
some time with me and lay out

152
00:06:16,231 --> 00:06:19,351
the options and talk to me about
my book and help kind of really

153
00:06:19,411 --> 00:06:20,731
develop it and move it along.

154
00:06:20,731 --> 00:06:24,391
I. And so I ended up, publishing
that first book with Scribe

155
00:06:24,691 --> 00:06:26,941
as an author in 20 19, 20 20.

156
00:06:27,301 --> 00:06:28,741
And I had an incredible experience.

157
00:06:28,741 --> 00:06:30,541
Like the team was perfect.

158
00:06:30,541 --> 00:06:31,711
I learned so much.

159
00:06:32,071 --> 00:06:35,791
It was a, a remarkably like,
transformative experience.

160
00:06:35,791 --> 00:06:39,121
And that book changed my life,
you know, and, and as a model,

161
00:06:39,121 --> 00:06:41,551
I thought Scribe was just
so, I thought it was dead on.

162
00:06:41,551 --> 00:06:42,571
I thought it was so correct.

163
00:06:42,571 --> 00:06:47,491
I thought they were very, They
were just really honest about

164
00:06:47,491 --> 00:06:49,831
like, look, you as the author,
the CEO of the book, like

165
00:06:49,831 --> 00:06:51,421
you're going to front the cost.

166
00:06:51,421 --> 00:06:53,641
You're gonna take the risk,
but you also assume full

167
00:06:53,641 --> 00:06:54,451
control of this thing.

168
00:06:54,451 --> 00:06:56,071
You get to make all the
final creative decisions.

169
00:06:56,071 --> 00:06:59,311
You get to craft the book the way
you want to, that serves your goals

170
00:06:59,311 --> 00:07:03,271
and your life, and you're gonna get
the full upside, which especially

171
00:07:03,271 --> 00:07:05,911
in from a book like Naval,
turned out to be life changing,

172
00:07:06,231 --> 00:07:06,891
Yeah, that was what?

173
00:07:06,891 --> 00:07:08,301
Million plus copies, right?

174
00:07:08,566 --> 00:07:10,306
Yeah, I think we're, we're
at a million and a half.

175
00:07:10,306 --> 00:07:10,786
I think.

176
00:07:11,356 --> 00:07:14,026
you know, all, all formats,
all languages like worldwide.

177
00:07:14,626 --> 00:07:16,966
so it's, it, you know, it's a
big world, but, you know, not a

178
00:07:16,966 --> 00:07:18,076
lot of books make it there, man.

179
00:07:18,316 --> 00:07:19,546
it's, it's crazy.

180
00:07:19,546 --> 00:07:21,166
I. You know, people.

181
00:07:21,676 --> 00:07:22,066
Thank you.

182
00:07:22,216 --> 00:07:22,666
Thank you.

183
00:07:23,296 --> 00:07:27,136
I mean, it's, it is a testament
to like Val's wisdom, I think.

184
00:07:27,136 --> 00:07:31,216
And you know, the word of mouth
around it has been just crazy.

185
00:07:31,276 --> 00:07:34,636
So, I, I don't think it's, you
know, I worked hard on the book,

186
00:07:34,636 --> 00:07:37,306
but I don't think it's like,
it's not some genius marketing

187
00:07:37,306 --> 00:07:38,266
hack that I have, right.

188
00:07:38,266 --> 00:07:41,746
It's just like a good product that
changes people's lives and a lot of

189
00:07:41,746 --> 00:07:45,196
people can get something from it and
it's just, you know, had wind in its

190
00:07:45,196 --> 00:07:47,266
sales very, very luckily for months

191
00:07:47,371 --> 00:07:49,381
It's value, it's value packed, man.

192
00:07:49,381 --> 00:07:51,691
Like, there's no, there's
no fluff in there.

193
00:07:51,691 --> 00:07:54,211
Like, seriously, if you don't
have, I'll, I'll be linking it

194
00:07:54,211 --> 00:07:55,736
in the, notes, all that stuff.

195
00:07:56,006 --> 00:07:56,296
Easy

196
00:07:56,311 --> 00:07:56,596
Thank you.

197
00:07:56,971 --> 00:07:59,101
I loved, I love to see
a copy that's just Yeah.

198
00:07:59,101 --> 00:08:01,591
Beat to shit that's got
highlights on every page.

199
00:08:01,591 --> 00:08:02,821
It's all dogeared.

200
00:08:02,881 --> 00:08:03,061
Yeah.

201
00:08:03,061 --> 00:08:05,341
It's been in and out of the
backpack a thousand times.

202
00:08:06,331 --> 00:08:08,221
or, or like you said,
people are like, yeah, you,

203
00:08:08,221 --> 00:08:09,241
you've been in my bedroom.

204
00:08:09,391 --> 00:08:10,771
It's been sitting next to my toilet.

205
00:08:10,801 --> 00:08:11,671
You know, whatever the,

206
00:08:11,971 --> 00:08:14,761
Whatever it's seen, you know, so
you're top of mind and it's true.

207
00:08:15,061 --> 00:08:15,266
Yeah.

208
00:08:15,271 --> 00:08:16,261
Yeah, it's perfect.

209
00:08:16,261 --> 00:08:16,861
I love to hear it.

210
00:08:17,491 --> 00:08:21,211
or yeah, being gifted, like, I think
being gifted is the best compliment

211
00:08:21,211 --> 00:08:22,141
a book can receive, right?

212
00:08:22,141 --> 00:08:25,051
So, when people are like, I gave
this to my little brother, it

213
00:08:25,051 --> 00:08:27,241
changed his life, he changed
his major, dropped outta school

214
00:08:27,241 --> 00:08:28,561
or quit med school or whatever.

215
00:08:28,561 --> 00:08:29,311
The thing is that,

216
00:08:29,436 --> 00:08:29,726
Yeah.

217
00:08:30,361 --> 00:08:32,371
you know, sort of wrapping
your head around some of these

218
00:08:32,371 --> 00:08:35,521
principles does for people, so.

219
00:08:35,556 --> 00:08:39,096
I, I immediately, I mean, especially
with a book like that, I, and

220
00:08:39,096 --> 00:08:40,806
an experience like that with
Scribe, I immediately started

221
00:08:40,806 --> 00:08:43,926
writing my second book, and
which was the anthology of B and

222
00:08:43,926 --> 00:08:46,206
that came out, like late 2023.

223
00:08:46,236 --> 00:08:49,506
But that was the book that I was
publishing with Scribe also, and

224
00:08:49,506 --> 00:08:50,946
got caught up in this bankruptcy.

225
00:08:51,066 --> 00:08:57,436
So, you know, when the, the sort
of the house fell, You know, I took

226
00:08:57,436 --> 00:09:00,676
a loss just like everybody else in
that, but I also was like, man, I

227
00:09:00,676 --> 00:09:04,846
feel like I owe this company, you
know, something like, some level

228
00:09:04,846 --> 00:09:08,236
of effort to save them after,
you know, the, all of the good

229
00:09:08,236 --> 00:09:11,326
that I got from them and all, you
know, the wonderful experience

230
00:09:11,326 --> 00:09:13,516
I had with the team and the
respect I had for everybody there.

231
00:09:14,176 --> 00:09:18,256
and so I started just making some
phone calls and I, lucky enough

232
00:09:18,256 --> 00:09:20,686
through just conferences and
Twitter and friendships to know

233
00:09:20,686 --> 00:09:24,226
people who buy companies, or, or.

234
00:09:24,261 --> 00:09:27,051
You know, work in private
equity or permanent equity.

235
00:09:27,051 --> 00:09:27,261
Yeah.

236
00:09:27,261 --> 00:09:31,171
So I started making phone calls
and I found these guys, Eva

237
00:09:31,171 --> 00:09:33,661
and Xavier, who run Enduring
Ventures, who I'd met a few

238
00:09:33,661 --> 00:09:37,891
times at, you know, at Berkshire
Hanaway conference and, I think

239
00:09:37,891 --> 00:09:39,361
Capital Camp, but a few others.

240
00:09:39,631 --> 00:09:41,491
And, yeah, they're just good news.

241
00:09:41,491 --> 00:09:43,891
They do, they run a long-term
holding company that's so,

242
00:09:43,891 --> 00:09:45,691
it's not a fund, they're not
trying to flip companies.

243
00:09:45,691 --> 00:09:48,421
They, they buy and hold for the long
run and they have a background in

244
00:09:48,421 --> 00:09:52,111
publishing and, and a background
in, you know, distressed situations,

245
00:09:52,111 --> 00:09:53,341
which like this definitely was

246
00:09:53,671 --> 00:09:57,211
so, they, they knew the, the now
situation you're in, but they also

247
00:09:57,211 --> 00:10:00,151
had that long-term vision that, you
know, they'll stick around with.

248
00:10:00,451 --> 00:10:00,676
Yeah.

249
00:10:00,676 --> 00:10:02,896
And they saw, they saw, you
know what I saw, which is

250
00:10:02,896 --> 00:10:04,276
like, this is a unique model.

251
00:10:04,306 --> 00:10:04,606
It is.

252
00:10:04,636 --> 00:10:07,846
It had been a great brand until
this very moment, which basically

253
00:10:07,846 --> 00:10:09,256
one guy like screwed it up.

254
00:10:10,306 --> 00:10:12,796
and, you know, they're,
they're just long-term thinkers

255
00:10:12,796 --> 00:10:15,616
and so they, they saw the
potential, I think, and they, I.

256
00:10:16,816 --> 00:10:20,866
We're willing to, do some of the
really messy, heavy lifting to like

257
00:10:21,316 --> 00:10:24,376
try to, you know, in situations like
that, there's no perfect solution.

258
00:10:24,496 --> 00:10:26,926
There's no, everybody's gonna
end up angry about something.

259
00:10:27,946 --> 00:10:31,366
and there's a lot of pain to go
around, like economic and emotional

260
00:10:31,591 --> 00:10:32,161
yeah.

261
00:10:32,521 --> 00:10:34,801
supporting what, thousands,
I think what you have to say,

262
00:10:34,801 --> 00:10:37,111
like 2000 plus, authors, right?

263
00:10:37,111 --> 00:10:40,651
I don't know what was going on
at that time, but trust, you

264
00:10:40,651 --> 00:10:43,261
know, like there's a lot of
that that probably is lost and

265
00:10:43,261 --> 00:10:44,161
you're just like, oh, shoot.

266
00:10:44,161 --> 00:10:45,631
You know, it's caught
in the middle, right?

267
00:10:45,931 --> 00:10:48,856
There were, there were hundreds
of active authors and, a, a lot

268
00:10:48,856 --> 00:10:53,086
of people got, It just ended up in
really unenviable situations and

269
00:10:53,086 --> 00:10:56,686
I've heard some, some horror stories
and, I've been trying to like, have

270
00:10:56,686 --> 00:10:59,746
conversations with those people and
make up for that and do what we can.

271
00:11:00,076 --> 00:11:02,026
essentially what ended up
happening is we started a brand

272
00:11:02,026 --> 00:11:05,716
new company, hired over some of
the team and basically bought the,

273
00:11:05,776 --> 00:11:08,236
the IP from the bank that, yeah.

274
00:11:08,776 --> 00:11:11,356
So the, the kind of mechanics
are, are interesting.

275
00:11:11,356 --> 00:11:14,476
It's not my expertise, but, to my
surprise, they called me after and

276
00:11:14,476 --> 00:11:17,236
said like, we, okay, we got this new
thing and we need somebody to run

277
00:11:17,236 --> 00:11:18,316
it, and we think that should be you.

278
00:11:18,511 --> 00:11:20,311
So I was like, all right,
let's give this thing a

279
00:11:20,341 --> 00:11:21,826
you, you raised your hand, man.

280
00:11:21,826 --> 00:11:21,996
I mean,

281
00:11:22,296 --> 00:11:22,586
Yeah.

282
00:11:22,886 --> 00:11:24,721
that's like 90% of the
battle right there.

283
00:11:24,721 --> 00:11:26,321
Maybe more even you.

284
00:11:26,851 --> 00:11:27,541
Yeah.

285
00:11:28,321 --> 00:11:30,931
Yeah, and it ended up being a
very interesting, like, you know,

286
00:11:30,931 --> 00:11:33,781
most people I know who are CEOs
either built their business from

287
00:11:33,781 --> 00:11:38,671
the ground up or spent 15 years
there and got hired into the role

288
00:11:38,671 --> 00:11:39,961
after sort of working their way up.

289
00:11:39,961 --> 00:11:44,071
And so I think, you know, there,
there's this sort of, Search

290
00:11:44,071 --> 00:11:47,761
fund and small business and small
business acquisition and like

291
00:11:47,761 --> 00:11:51,121
private equity world that, is
full of kind of these weirdly

292
00:11:51,121 --> 00:11:54,541
interesting, almost one-off
stories of like, you know, seller

293
00:11:54,541 --> 00:11:58,891
finance acquisitions and or,
or privately funded or search

294
00:11:58,891 --> 00:12:00,451
funded or independent sponsors.

295
00:12:00,451 --> 00:12:03,031
And this ended up being like a
very weird combination of all of

296
00:12:03,031 --> 00:12:04,411
those, like kind of by accident.

297
00:12:04,411 --> 00:12:08,641
But it's a very, it's a cool,
it's a really cool world and very

298
00:12:08,641 --> 00:12:09,841
interesting stuff happens in it.

299
00:12:10,176 --> 00:12:10,396
Man.

300
00:12:10,741 --> 00:12:13,951
Well, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking
of like the moment when you

301
00:12:13,951 --> 00:12:16,141
stepped into the role as CEO.

302
00:12:16,141 --> 00:12:20,281
Like, was there, I don't know,
like was there, what was the

303
00:12:20,281 --> 00:12:22,021
feeling that you had at that point?

304
00:12:22,021 --> 00:12:24,961
Because you obviously probably
learning a ton and things that you

305
00:12:24,961 --> 00:12:26,371
didn't totally know about, like.

306
00:12:27,091 --> 00:12:29,461
Was there something that maybe
your gut was feeling that

307
00:12:29,461 --> 00:12:32,071
like spreadsheets and all the
numbers really weren't talking,

308
00:12:32,071 --> 00:12:33,961
like there had to have been
something happening there?

309
00:12:34,505 --> 00:12:34,985
It's a lot.

310
00:12:35,015 --> 00:12:35,855
I mean, you said it right?

311
00:12:35,855 --> 00:12:36,665
It's a lot of learning.

312
00:12:36,665 --> 00:12:40,325
It's a lot of getting oriented
as quickly as possible, to,

313
00:12:40,355 --> 00:12:41,435
to a lot of things, right?

314
00:12:41,435 --> 00:12:45,425
Like you are meeting the whole team,
you're meeting the customers, you're

315
00:12:45,425 --> 00:12:47,645
trying to understand the processes.

316
00:12:48,425 --> 00:12:51,695
there's so much to wrap your
head around really quickly.

317
00:12:52,025 --> 00:12:54,940
And, friends who've been through
this before warned me, they're

318
00:12:54,940 --> 00:12:57,005
like, you will get asked to make
a decision in the first week

319
00:12:57,395 --> 00:13:00,545
that you don't think you'll be
ready for, for six more months.

320
00:13:00,545 --> 00:13:02,555
And like, you just have to do the
best you can with what you have.

321
00:13:03,610 --> 00:13:07,180
So it's a very, it is a very like
seat of the pants experience and,

322
00:13:08,350 --> 00:13:11,290
but I, you know, all, all you can
do is kind of keep doing your best.

323
00:13:11,290 --> 00:13:14,320
And, you know, I'm 18 months
in now and I, I'm still like,

324
00:13:14,350 --> 00:13:15,490
I'm still trying to learn.

325
00:13:15,490 --> 00:13:17,530
I'm still, there's so
much, you know, you can't

326
00:13:17,530 --> 00:13:18,820
possibly know enough.

327
00:13:18,850 --> 00:13:21,010
And every additional piece of
information helps, like every

328
00:13:21,010 --> 00:13:22,000
customer you can talk to.

329
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,480
trying to understand your
whole team's roles ever

330
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,120
more deeply and how they
all fit together and the co.

331
00:13:29,295 --> 00:13:33,135
Changing environments, you know, the
different offers, different authors,

332
00:13:33,135 --> 00:13:34,635
different tools, different vendors.

333
00:13:35,615 --> 00:13:36,065
True.

334
00:13:36,165 --> 00:13:38,355
so yeah, it's, it is already
a dynamic environment and

335
00:13:38,355 --> 00:13:39,885
then you're trying to play
catch up on top of it.

336
00:13:39,885 --> 00:13:42,285
But, it's also kinda
what makes it fun.

337
00:13:42,285 --> 00:13:47,060
You know, it's a very fun, I. It's
fun to kind of be the, like, to

338
00:13:47,060 --> 00:13:49,700
some extent, the nexus of all of
that information and have it all

339
00:13:49,700 --> 00:13:50,660
kind of like feeding into you.

340
00:13:50,660 --> 00:13:51,950
It's a lot to process, but,

341
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:53,720
it's, it's very fun.

342
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,680
Like for, for somebody who's
deeply and, endlessly curious

343
00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:02,000
and hungry to understand all
of this, like, it's fantastic.

344
00:14:02,345 --> 00:14:03,155
right in the middle of it.

345
00:14:03,155 --> 00:14:03,485
Yeah.

346
00:14:03,515 --> 00:14:05,705
I mean, I see a bunch of
books behind you, so it's like

347
00:14:06,065 --> 00:14:08,645
you're literally surrounded
by authors all day, every day.

348
00:14:08,945 --> 00:14:09,875
Yeah, dude, it is.

349
00:14:10,115 --> 00:14:13,265
I tell you, it is brutal to like
have, you know, six to eight

350
00:14:13,265 --> 00:14:16,925
author like meetings with authors
a day who they, they explain

351
00:14:16,925 --> 00:14:19,655
their book Heidi, and you're like,
shit, I wanna read that book.

352
00:14:19,745 --> 00:14:22,595
And then half an hour later
you're like, that sounds amazing.

353
00:14:22,595 --> 00:14:23,735
I would love to read that book.

354
00:14:24,575 --> 00:14:24,755
and

355
00:14:24,815 --> 00:14:27,635
having podcasts like this, like,
I'm like, that's a great idea.

356
00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:27,905
Shit.

357
00:14:28,115 --> 00:14:28,445
Nope.

358
00:14:28,490 --> 00:14:30,305
Don't focus, focus.

359
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:30,980
yeah.

360
00:14:31,610 --> 00:14:31,880
Yeah.

361
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,480
It's, it is very easy for the,
yeah, the, the opportunities

362
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,200
and ideas and, reading material
in particular to stack up.

363
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:39,860
I bet.

364
00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:40,370
Yeah.

365
00:14:40,430 --> 00:14:43,940
Well, walk me through, there's
like two, two ways I want to go

366
00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:47,090
and I don't know which way it
is yet, but like, maybe start

367
00:14:47,090 --> 00:14:48,260
with the rebuilding trust.

368
00:14:48,260 --> 00:14:51,290
Like, 'cause I was thinking the
trust with existing authors, maybe

369
00:14:51,290 --> 00:14:55,220
ones that, you know, and this leads
me to like the model of scribe too.

370
00:14:55,220 --> 00:14:56,960
I want to make that very clear.

371
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,960
I don't know which
way, that goes because.

372
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:01,310
Yeah, I don't know.

373
00:15:01,310 --> 00:15:02,155
I'll just leave that to you.

374
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,330
Yeah, I, let's, let's start
with, the trust is the

375
00:15:05,330 --> 00:15:06,200
foundation of everything.

376
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,250
So I think starting there, you
know, I, I wrote in the, wrote

377
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:13,340
the first like annual letter,
recently to kind of like the

378
00:15:13,340 --> 00:15:18,020
community and the, the team and,
I. I, I think this first year was

379
00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:19,970
all about just rebuilding trust.

380
00:15:19,970 --> 00:15:23,750
And I don't think, you know, it's
not something you can ask for.

381
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:27,980
It's something you have to earn and
it takes time and repetition and,

382
00:15:30,350 --> 00:15:32,450
like to be trustworthy,
you have to be reliable.

383
00:15:32,510 --> 00:15:34,790
And to be reliable,
people need a sample size.

384
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,350
And you know, there's some element
where you can't speed that up.

385
00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:40,400
You just have to be.

386
00:15:41,330 --> 00:15:44,000
Conspicuously doing the thing
that you are expected to do,

387
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,340
that you promised that you
would do over and over again.

388
00:15:46,340 --> 00:15:51,620
And, you know, if you're greedy
for trust, it's much more, you

389
00:15:51,620 --> 00:15:53,420
know, it's, it's, people hesitate.

390
00:15:53,510 --> 00:15:57,140
It's a very, like, that's why I
say you can't really ask for it.

391
00:15:57,140 --> 00:15:57,830
You just have to earn it.

392
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,070
It's like, like they could
smell it out that you're wanting

393
00:16:01,070 --> 00:16:02,480
it maybe more or you know,

394
00:16:02,780 --> 00:16:03,305
Yeah.

395
00:16:03,395 --> 00:16:05,765
Well, when people like
proclaim themselves to be

396
00:16:05,765 --> 00:16:08,495
trustworthy, it's almost
always a counter signal, right?

397
00:16:08,495 --> 00:16:11,405
Like if they're leading with
like, conspicuous, oh, like,

398
00:16:11,870 --> 00:16:14,735
and, and frankly, the guy that
used to run, scribe did this.

399
00:16:15,215 --> 00:16:18,725
you know, he, he would do like
lots of claims about transparency

400
00:16:18,725 --> 00:16:23,820
and honesty and integrity
and, You know, I, I, my focus

401
00:16:23,820 --> 00:16:25,740
for the team was like, let's
just go back to fundamentals.

402
00:16:25,770 --> 00:16:26,700
Let's just focus.

403
00:16:26,700 --> 00:16:28,980
We have to be flawless on the
fundamentals of what we're doing.

404
00:16:28,980 --> 00:16:31,140
We don't miss deadlines,
we don't ship mistakes.

405
00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:32,460
We just do the work.

406
00:16:32,490 --> 00:16:35,430
And the best advertisement
is the work on our desk.

407
00:16:35,490 --> 00:16:38,430
And we're in the business of
rebuilding a reputation like day

408
00:16:38,430 --> 00:16:40,050
by day, week by week, book by book.

409
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:41,430
We're not gonna shout about it.

410
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:42,360
We're not gonna ask for it.

411
00:16:42,390 --> 00:16:44,100
We're just going to do the work.

412
00:16:44,130 --> 00:16:47,970
And, you know, I, I've
never been one to like.

413
00:16:50,495 --> 00:16:51,905
I do not like to advertise myself.

414
00:16:51,935 --> 00:16:55,325
I'd rather like just do good
work and let the work speak

415
00:16:55,325 --> 00:16:59,375
for itself and let others sort
of, if they feel comfortable,

416
00:17:00,365 --> 00:17:03,155
you know, recommend tell other
people that we did good work.

417
00:17:03,338 --> 00:17:05,618
It's pretty, it's like a
testament of what you did with,

418
00:17:05,618 --> 00:17:07,268
with, the Naval book, you know?

419
00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:07,890
Yeah.

420
00:17:07,890 --> 00:17:10,230
I think, you know, you, you
can't, there is no amount

421
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:11,370
of marketing that overcomes.

422
00:17:12,465 --> 00:17:13,365
A bad product.

423
00:17:14,625 --> 00:17:19,095
and e even if it's true for that,
some, you know, 3 months, 6 months,

424
00:17:19,095 --> 00:17:23,025
12 months, like over the very
long period of time, you know, the

425
00:17:23,025 --> 00:17:26,865
reputation in the product is the
ultimate, you know, determinant

426
00:17:26,865 --> 00:17:29,355
of value and that's just the
right place to keep the focus.

427
00:17:29,685 --> 00:17:30,315
I like that.

428
00:17:30,375 --> 00:17:33,105
No, I would say like, you know,
'cause I was thinking is there some

429
00:17:33,105 --> 00:17:36,255
kind of trust hack or anything,
but it's, it's really doing

430
00:17:36,255 --> 00:17:39,045
what you say, you know, because
most people don't even do that.

431
00:17:39,585 --> 00:17:42,405
Maybe, do it in a concise
or effective manner that

432
00:17:42,405 --> 00:17:45,135
helps everybody and, and
just, just keep doing it.

433
00:17:45,135 --> 00:17:45,675
Keep showing

434
00:17:45,675 --> 00:17:45,975
up.

435
00:17:46,035 --> 00:17:46,335
Like, don't

436
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,860
any, any trust hack I
think destroys trust.

437
00:17:50,295 --> 00:17:53,565
You know, it, it's kinda like,
you know, I think we've all had

438
00:17:53,565 --> 00:17:56,895
experiences with somebody who
like overdosed on how to win

439
00:17:56,895 --> 00:18:00,135
friends and influence people,
and they're like, Hey Joe, it's

440
00:18:00,135 --> 00:18:01,185
really great to see you, Joe.

441
00:18:01,185 --> 00:18:02,415
How's your wife, Joe, Joe?

442
00:18:02,445 --> 00:18:05,055
Like all of the like
hacks that you're like,

443
00:18:05,235 --> 00:18:06,825
we've, we've met one time.

444
00:18:06,825 --> 00:18:08,445
Like, just be a human.

445
00:18:09,465 --> 00:18:12,585
and like let, let the
relationship develop normally.

446
00:18:14,025 --> 00:18:18,465
so it's a very, yeah, I
think it like you just.

447
00:18:20,325 --> 00:18:25,095
You just gotta be the kind of, be
the partner that you would want

448
00:18:25,890 --> 00:18:26,430
That's good.

449
00:18:26,445 --> 00:18:27,135
to be seen as.

450
00:18:27,135 --> 00:18:29,925
Yeah, just walk the, walk the
walk and keep your mouth shut

451
00:18:29,925 --> 00:18:32,805
and, let it take care of itself.

452
00:18:32,895 --> 00:18:33,495
Be patient.

453
00:18:33,525 --> 00:18:33,945
Be patient.

454
00:18:33,945 --> 00:18:34,365
Be patient.

455
00:18:34,890 --> 00:18:38,100
man, patience is probably the, it's
the toughest, but it's, it's true.

456
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:39,875
You just gotta let stuff develop as

457
00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:43,980
I, I mean, I, I, I will quote Naval
at least five times in this episode.

458
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:45,930
'cause it's an
occupational hazard for me.

459
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:49,410
But, you know, impatience
with action, patience with

460
00:18:49,410 --> 00:18:52,380
results, I think that like
defines the trust thing.

461
00:18:52,410 --> 00:18:56,160
Like you must be obsessive and
impatient about doing good work.

462
00:18:56,460 --> 00:18:59,310
And you have to be patient
with allowing that reputation

463
00:18:59,310 --> 00:19:02,550
to, you know, catch up to
the work that you're doing.

464
00:19:02,670 --> 00:19:04,650
'cause it's always gonna be
a la a lagging indicator.

465
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:05,880
Yes.

466
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:06,420
Yeah.

467
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:09,420
And that's layer, layer,
everything with naval quotes.

468
00:19:09,420 --> 00:19:12,570
'cause I know, I mean, there's old
book obviously, but people love him.

469
00:19:12,570 --> 00:19:16,050
So, and if you're not following
Naval for whatever reason, and

470
00:19:16,050 --> 00:19:17,370
Eric like, go find him on Twitter.

471
00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:19,500
I'm sure it's probably the
best place or X whatever.

472
00:19:20,010 --> 00:19:25,380
So, but let's go to the, the,
the model of scribe media.

473
00:19:25,410 --> 00:19:28,410
Like, did things change from before?

474
00:19:28,410 --> 00:19:29,760
I guess break it down in general.

475
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,620
'cause I know a lot of
folks listening, watching.

476
00:19:32,370 --> 00:19:34,440
Maybe have a book or
thinking about a book.

477
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:35,160
I mean, let's be honest.

478
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,350
We'll, we'll address the whole
tech thing and how there's

479
00:19:37,980 --> 00:19:40,350
tools like AI now that could
speed up their writing.

480
00:19:40,350 --> 00:19:43,200
So people thinking, Hey, I
could just do this myself.

481
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,415
Like, why would I go to Scribe
and, you know, work with you guys?

482
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:47,250
Yeah.

483
00:19:47,255 --> 00:19:47,415
Yeah.

484
00:19:47,415 --> 00:19:51,855
So, the, I'll give you the, like
the context f first is that the

485
00:19:51,855 --> 00:19:56,865
whole history of publishing is
basically, 150 year old business

486
00:19:56,865 --> 00:20:01,335
model that the presumption is that
most books are sold in bookstores,

487
00:20:01,365 --> 00:20:02,475
that they're physical books.

488
00:20:03,195 --> 00:20:05,565
the presumption is that
they're marketed through

489
00:20:05,565 --> 00:20:08,715
centralized media like TV
and newspapers and magazines.

490
00:20:09,075 --> 00:20:11,865
The presumption is also that
you need like a big capital

491
00:20:11,865 --> 00:20:14,415
investment upfront to like do a
big print run of books and get

492
00:20:14,415 --> 00:20:16,575
them all distributed in order to.

493
00:20:16,965 --> 00:20:17,685
Sell books.

494
00:20:17,985 --> 00:20:21,135
And when all those things were true
a hundred years ago, even 50 years

495
00:20:21,135 --> 00:20:23,985
ago, it made a ton of sense to have
a traditional publishing model.

496
00:20:24,345 --> 00:20:28,065
And where, you know, they give
authors advances, they take control

497
00:20:28,065 --> 00:20:31,785
of the copyright, and they basically
manage the book in the inventory

498
00:20:31,785 --> 00:20:35,115
of the book for a long period of
time, and they just pay the author

499
00:20:35,115 --> 00:20:37,395
some royalties for having written
the thing in the first place.

500
00:20:37,965 --> 00:20:41,595
And what is obvious to everybody
living on the internet now

501
00:20:41,595 --> 00:20:44,445
is like all three of those
have actually flipped 180.

502
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,170
Like most books, this is not
obvious, but most books, physical

503
00:20:49,170 --> 00:20:52,170
books that you use now are
print on demand, like almost

504
00:20:52,170 --> 00:20:53,190
everything you buy on Amazon.

505
00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:55,710
Like, so there is no need
for a big upfront investment.

506
00:20:55,710 --> 00:20:56,940
There's no physical inventory.

507
00:20:57,090 --> 00:20:59,220
It's basically like selling a
digital product and just like

508
00:20:59,340 --> 00:21:01,260
Amazon takes care of printing
and distribution for you.

509
00:21:02,670 --> 00:21:06,600
The other is that most books
are sold on Amazon or on other

510
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,540
websites, and so you don't
actually need a huge, you know,

511
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,220
proprietary distribution network.

512
00:21:11,610 --> 00:21:14,130
they still exist and people still
buy from bookstores, but like the

513
00:21:14,130 --> 00:21:17,250
majority of them are sold either
digitally or through Amazon, even

514
00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:18,240
when there are physical versions.

515
00:21:18,630 --> 00:21:19,740
And third, like.

516
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:22,740
You don't need, you know,
going on the late show or

517
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:24,360
the morning show doesn't
move a ton of copies anymore.

518
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:26,430
It's like going on podcasts,
newsletters, and being

519
00:21:26,430 --> 00:21:27,540
recommended on social media.

520
00:21:28,530 --> 00:21:32,820
and so through with all those as
sort of givens, the model that

521
00:21:32,820 --> 00:21:36,720
makes the most sense is actually
like authors being in full control.

522
00:21:37,230 --> 00:21:39,150
Authors now have their own audience.

523
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,300
They can sell directly through
their website or, you know, link

524
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:44,310
people directly from their social
media, their newsletter, whatever.

525
00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:49,080
the authors have done all the work
to de-risk the book, essentially.

526
00:21:50,250 --> 00:21:54,420
the, the authors in many cases,
like make more money from other

527
00:21:54,540 --> 00:21:57,990
sources, you know, whether it's
coaching, speaking, consulting,

528
00:21:58,020 --> 00:22:01,110
you know, a, a fund, like
whatever the business model is.

529
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,380
There's usually, especially for
like non-fiction business authors

530
00:22:04,380 --> 00:22:07,770
that we normally work with, lots
of ways for them to win, other than

531
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:11,250
selling a ton of books and making
money from the royalties themselves.

532
00:22:12,180 --> 00:22:14,190
so there's a few authors that we've
worked with that are like that.

533
00:22:14,190 --> 00:22:16,590
So, David Goggins is, is the most.

534
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:19,500
Famous, and the highest
selling, I mean, one of the

535
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:20,730
bestselling memoirs of all time.

536
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,820
And he, he basically couldn't get
an offer that he was happy with

537
00:22:23,850 --> 00:22:24,990
from a traditional publisher.

538
00:22:24,990 --> 00:22:28,830
He's like, you guys are under
undervaluing me, and, you know, if

539
00:22:28,830 --> 00:22:31,170
you're not gonna pay me what I'm
worth, I'll, I'll go do it myself.

540
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,760
And so he, he worked with Scribe
and published, Can't Hurt Me

541
00:22:35,850 --> 00:22:37,530
and Never Finished both with us.

542
00:22:38,235 --> 00:22:40,725
Which means, yeah,
both incredible books.

543
00:22:41,595 --> 00:22:45,105
and he just went to war at
like, only David Goggins

544
00:22:45,105 --> 00:22:47,175
can like selling that book.

545
00:22:47,175 --> 00:22:47,445
Right.

546
00:22:47,445 --> 00:22:50,925
So for years and years he,
he just like would speak and

547
00:22:50,925 --> 00:22:53,505
market and go on social and
talk about that book and sell

548
00:22:53,505 --> 00:22:54,645
that book and go do interviews.

549
00:22:54,975 --> 00:22:59,050
And he sold five, I mean the
la this is an old number, but

550
00:22:59,050 --> 00:23:01,935
it was in 5 million plus, you
mean by closer to 10 by now.

551
00:23:02,985 --> 00:23:06,015
and because he published with
Scribe, you know, he paid us.

552
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:09,600
A few tens of thousands of dollars
to do all of the publishing work,

553
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:13,140
but he kept all of the rest of
that upside on millions of copies.

554
00:23:13,140 --> 00:23:15,720
So he's gotta be one of the highest
earning authors of all time.

555
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,750
He's out earning many authors
who are actually traditionally

556
00:23:18,750 --> 00:23:21,450
published, but even sold more
books just because of how he went

557
00:23:21,450 --> 00:23:24,810
about it and the risk that he took
initially to get his full upside.

558
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:25,620
Wow.

559
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:26,070
Okay.

560
00:23:26,430 --> 00:23:27,030
That's cool.

561
00:23:27,090 --> 00:23:28,980
And thanks for breaking down
all the different elements

562
00:23:28,980 --> 00:23:32,550
of like ROI of a publish,
you know, a published author,

563
00:23:32,850 --> 00:23:33,435
Yeah.

564
00:23:33,495 --> 00:23:33,945
Yeah.

565
00:23:34,035 --> 00:23:37,635
So, so I should say like, scribe's
model is like the opposite

566
00:23:37,635 --> 00:23:39,645
of traditional publishing in
that we don't offer advances.

567
00:23:39,645 --> 00:23:43,875
We actually just charge a clear,
fixed flat rate for the work that

568
00:23:43,875 --> 00:23:44,895
a traditional publisher will do.

569
00:23:45,075 --> 00:23:47,025
So you bring a manuscript to us.

570
00:23:47,605 --> 00:23:48,385
we'll copy edit it.

571
00:23:48,385 --> 00:23:49,975
We'll proofread it,
we'll do cover design.

572
00:23:49,975 --> 00:23:50,845
We'll do page layout.

573
00:23:50,845 --> 00:23:51,715
We'll do illustrations.

574
00:23:51,715 --> 00:23:54,535
We'll design all the final
files the way you want.

575
00:23:54,535 --> 00:23:57,085
We'll help you get uploaded
for distribution and launched,

576
00:23:57,475 --> 00:23:59,935
and then you make all the
final creative decisions.

577
00:23:59,935 --> 00:24:02,305
You keep all your rights and
you keep all your royalties.

578
00:24:03,085 --> 00:24:06,385
It's, which is for one, for
people like me and Goggins who

579
00:24:06,385 --> 00:24:07,435
are gonna go sell a lot of books.

580
00:24:08,175 --> 00:24:11,235
That's a huge ROI on the
royalties 'cause we're earning

581
00:24:11,235 --> 00:24:14,655
two to four times as much as a
traditionally published author

582
00:24:14,655 --> 00:24:16,575
would on a per book basis.

583
00:24:16,635 --> 00:24:20,445
But the more important thing is
actually that there are thousands,

584
00:24:20,445 --> 00:24:23,895
millions of authors that would, a
traditional publisher would never

585
00:24:23,895 --> 00:24:26,535
even consider because they'll only
sell a thousand books or 10,000

586
00:24:26,565 --> 00:24:28,455
books and they're trying to find
people that'll sell a hundred

587
00:24:28,455 --> 00:24:30,945
thousand books or at minimum 50,000.

588
00:24:31,395 --> 00:24:33,255
Otherwise, it just doesn't
make sense for them to take

589
00:24:33,255 --> 00:24:34,185
the risk and do the work.

590
00:24:34,292 --> 00:24:37,748
But I talk to authors every
single day who wanna write a

591
00:24:37,748 --> 00:24:41,168
book for their own reasons,
just to impact the social issue.

592
00:24:41,438 --> 00:24:45,308
Or they want to take the they, they
want to get their message out there.

593
00:24:45,308 --> 00:24:48,188
They want to claim like they
wanna increase their credibility.

594
00:24:48,248 --> 00:24:51,848
They want to tell their story, they
want to give back to their industry.

595
00:24:52,178 --> 00:24:57,168
They want to, Really connect
deeply with their clients

596
00:24:57,168 --> 00:24:58,548
or their potential clients.

597
00:24:58,548 --> 00:25:00,498
And they may, you know,
there's people that'll

598
00:25:00,498 --> 00:25:01,788
only sell a thousand books.

599
00:25:01,788 --> 00:25:04,010
They, they may give
away a thousand books,

600
00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:04,788
Exactly

601
00:25:04,905 --> 00:25:08,628
but they'll get $10 million in
business to their core business

602
00:25:08,688 --> 00:25:12,318
or raise a hundreds of millions of
dollars as a result of having that

603
00:25:12,318 --> 00:25:15,018
book out there and getting it into
the right hands and building trust

604
00:25:15,258 --> 00:25:18,558
on a very deep level through the
means of this like very important

605
00:25:18,558 --> 00:25:21,738
timeless medium that is just
really difficult to fake, like.

606
00:25:22,493 --> 00:25:23,633
It really, you can't,

607
00:25:23,828 --> 00:25:28,178
yeah, if you, you write a great
book, like you probably know what

608
00:25:28,178 --> 00:25:30,098
you're talking about, you know?

609
00:25:30,518 --> 00:25:31,688
It's still more important.

610
00:25:31,688 --> 00:25:35,438
Like I, I love your thoughts on
this because you know, you have AI

611
00:25:35,438 --> 00:25:38,288
and everybody feels like, you know,
information's at my fingertips.

612
00:25:38,288 --> 00:25:40,898
I could be, you know,
knowledgeable in seconds on

613
00:25:40,898 --> 00:25:42,458
whatever topic I, I want.

614
00:25:42,728 --> 00:25:45,398
Or I can look up this person's book
and get the summary of everything.

615
00:25:45,398 --> 00:25:48,698
And the answer I would
say is yes to that.

616
00:25:48,698 --> 00:25:52,118
But the value of a book, like, I
would love to hear it even more

617
00:25:52,118 --> 00:25:53,828
from you going down this vein of.

618
00:25:54,263 --> 00:25:57,893
You know, the ROI are the
reasons why people would publish.

619
00:25:57,893 --> 00:25:59,123
It's, it's kinda what
you're stating here.

620
00:25:59,123 --> 00:26:02,723
It's like you can make it your own
on the front end, but there what

621
00:26:02,813 --> 00:26:06,113
a business model should be defined
on the back end, I would imagine.

622
00:26:06,923 --> 00:26:07,283
And yeah.

623
00:26:07,283 --> 00:26:10,823
Any thoughts on that or how scribe
kinda steers people do that process?

624
00:26:11,123 --> 00:26:13,118
Yeah, I mean, we like
we talk to everybody.

625
00:26:13,118 --> 00:26:15,188
We try to get an idea of what
the context is that they're

626
00:26:15,188 --> 00:26:16,118
publishing this book into.

627
00:26:16,943 --> 00:26:19,613
So there are people who come
in and say, I truly just

628
00:26:19,613 --> 00:26:20,813
want to impact this issue.

629
00:26:20,873 --> 00:26:26,873
And if I, you know, like one,
author that I remember is, the

630
00:26:26,873 --> 00:26:27,773
issue that they wanted to impact.

631
00:26:27,773 --> 00:26:28,613
They're, they're retired.

632
00:26:28,643 --> 00:26:31,493
They did it very well for
themselves, and they're like, I

633
00:26:31,493 --> 00:26:34,493
am dedicating years of my life
and a large amount of money

634
00:26:34,493 --> 00:26:38,123
to impacting gay teen suicide,
and if I can save one life.

635
00:26:38,648 --> 00:26:39,668
This will be worth it.

636
00:26:40,178 --> 00:26:41,828
And I do not care
about anything else.

637
00:26:42,098 --> 00:26:43,358
I don't care if I sell like copies.

638
00:26:43,358 --> 00:26:44,348
I don't care if I give 'em away.

639
00:26:44,348 --> 00:26:47,108
I don't care like what it costs.

640
00:26:47,228 --> 00:26:49,568
Like if I, as soon as I reach
that threshold, I'm great.

641
00:26:49,568 --> 00:26:52,298
I will keep reaching for two and
three and four and a hundred.

642
00:26:52,298 --> 00:26:55,088
But like, that's my,
my measure of success.

643
00:26:55,538 --> 00:26:58,838
And no traditional publisher
is gonna care about that.

644
00:26:59,288 --> 00:27:00,458
like that's a big risk to take.

645
00:27:01,208 --> 00:27:04,178
But if that's important to you,
and I think that book could

646
00:27:04,178 --> 00:27:07,028
be good for the world who's,
who's not gonna support that.

647
00:27:07,988 --> 00:27:10,388
but mo most importantly, like
if you just have a vision like

648
00:27:10,388 --> 00:27:11,228
that, we will help you do it.

649
00:27:11,498 --> 00:27:16,298
But different example, along similar
lines is like, Paul Franco wrote a

650
00:27:16,298 --> 00:27:18,218
book called, Successful Successions.

651
00:27:18,338 --> 00:27:21,728
And it's a very, very targeted, and
we, we often coach authors to do

652
00:27:21,728 --> 00:27:23,348
this, like uncomfortably targeted.

653
00:27:23,348 --> 00:27:28,013
So his book is for, Certified
financial planners who own

654
00:27:28,013 --> 00:27:30,878
their own firm, who are retiring
within the next five years

655
00:27:31,178 --> 00:27:31,778
Okay.

656
00:27:31,943 --> 00:27:35,783
and they don't know, and they're
like not sure how to transition.

657
00:27:35,783 --> 00:27:37,223
They're not sure what a
good transition looks like.

658
00:27:37,223 --> 00:27:38,243
They're not sure what
their options are.

659
00:27:38,573 --> 00:27:43,853
And Paul's business is to buy
those trans, the firms from people

660
00:27:43,853 --> 00:27:46,883
transitioning out who are like
retiring and just ready to be

661
00:27:47,243 --> 00:27:49,013
doing a different chapter and.

662
00:27:49,373 --> 00:27:51,023
So they search for this problem.

663
00:27:51,083 --> 00:27:51,953
They see his book.

664
00:27:52,193 --> 00:27:54,263
Amazon is a very underrated
as a search engine.

665
00:27:55,163 --> 00:27:57,923
so they search for it, they
find it, they buy it, they read

666
00:27:57,923 --> 00:28:00,593
it, and then they pick up the
phone and call Paul and try to

667
00:28:00,653 --> 00:28:02,003
see if he'll buy their firm.

668
00:28:02,033 --> 00:28:03,833
'cause they like how he
thinks and they trust him.

669
00:28:03,833 --> 00:28:06,113
And they just had this experience
of like understanding his

670
00:28:06,113 --> 00:28:07,883
philosophy and his expertise.

671
00:28:08,153 --> 00:28:13,013
And you know, as far as
marketing goes, like you just

672
00:28:13,013 --> 00:28:14,603
made, you know, four bucks.

673
00:28:15,248 --> 00:28:19,778
To spend 10 hours with this client
in this very high leverage way

674
00:28:20,468 --> 00:28:23,528
that now they pick up the phone
and call you and ask you to buy it.

675
00:28:23,558 --> 00:28:24,668
It's not, there's no other,

676
00:28:24,968 --> 00:28:25,448
Hmm.

677
00:28:25,808 --> 00:28:28,148
show me another marketing channel
that like makes you money,

678
00:28:28,658 --> 00:28:32,408
builds trust at a deep level and
creates like high intent inbound

679
00:28:32,813 --> 00:28:33,803
Absolutely.

680
00:28:34,073 --> 00:28:34,763
And I see it.

681
00:28:35,003 --> 00:28:38,843
yeah, I'm partnered with, one of my
partners is Mike ings here in San

682
00:28:38,843 --> 00:28:43,853
Diego, and we, yeah, I'm, I'm one
of the, the fractional, AI officers.

683
00:28:43,853 --> 00:28:46,613
We consult ton of businesses, but
you know, this program we do on

684
00:28:46,613 --> 00:28:48,888
the back end, it's high level,
you know, almost $10,000 thing,

685
00:28:48,888 --> 00:28:53,003
but it's all driven by the book
on the front end, and we see

686
00:28:53,003 --> 00:28:53,933
where all the leads are coming.

687
00:28:53,933 --> 00:28:55,013
It's all from the book.

688
00:28:55,043 --> 00:28:56,363
And everyone I talked to.

689
00:28:56,613 --> 00:28:56,823
Yep.

690
00:28:56,823 --> 00:28:59,433
Read the book and like not
even all the way through

691
00:28:59,493 --> 00:29:00,963
and invested or needed.

692
00:29:01,023 --> 00:29:02,223
I knew I needed you guys.

693
00:29:02,223 --> 00:29:03,783
I'm like, there it is.

694
00:29:04,231 --> 00:29:05,281
it's incredible.

695
00:29:05,281 --> 00:29:09,151
It's so difficult to create
that level of trust, and there's

696
00:29:09,151 --> 00:29:11,491
so few mediums that can do it,
and if you're out there like

697
00:29:11,521 --> 00:29:12,931
dropping a bunch of paid ads.

698
00:29:13,606 --> 00:29:17,266
It's that, you know, back goes
back to that level of trust, like

699
00:29:17,266 --> 00:29:20,086
when you were asking to be trusted
instead of just doing something

700
00:29:20,086 --> 00:29:24,196
and letting yourself be evaluated,
as high, trustworthy or not.

701
00:29:25,726 --> 00:29:28,006
it is just a very different, it's
a very different kind of climb.

702
00:29:28,291 --> 00:29:28,591
yeah,

703
00:29:30,106 --> 00:29:31,006
yeah, it's, it's interesting.

704
00:29:31,006 --> 00:29:33,226
I'm glad to hear you having
a similar experience.

705
00:29:33,526 --> 00:29:34,321
Absolutely man.

706
00:29:34,321 --> 00:29:37,171
And there's, and yeah, I'm not
gonna say, you know, paid ads

707
00:29:37,171 --> 00:29:39,691
are evil or anything, but I
think the big thing is, like you

708
00:29:39,691 --> 00:29:42,901
said, like be in a place where
people are looking for you.

709
00:29:43,081 --> 00:29:45,691
Amazon, you know,
don't gloss this over.

710
00:29:45,691 --> 00:29:47,521
I know you didn't, but like
for anybody who might've missed

711
00:29:47,521 --> 00:29:49,051
it, Amazon is a search engine.

712
00:29:49,081 --> 00:29:51,391
I don't know where they
rank with everything, but

713
00:29:51,631 --> 00:29:52,651
it ain't going anywhere.

714
00:29:52,741 --> 00:29:53,251
And they're.

715
00:29:53,746 --> 00:29:58,756
Apps, you know, integrated now
with even, you have all the AI

716
00:29:58,756 --> 00:30:01,576
stuff, you know, like they'll
point there as a source too.

717
00:30:01,606 --> 00:30:05,956
Like there's so being there, you
need a book or some kind of product,

718
00:30:05,956 --> 00:30:07,756
but yeah, why not give 'em the book?

719
00:30:08,191 --> 00:30:11,701
Yeah, it's, it's, it is an
incredible thing and, and the fact

720
00:30:11,701 --> 00:30:14,161
that you need to have written a
book to get a search engine results

721
00:30:14,161 --> 00:30:17,041
page on Amazon is a very high bar.

722
00:30:17,581 --> 00:30:20,461
There's, there's authors with
us who are selling software

723
00:30:20,521 --> 00:30:24,841
like B2B SaaS software, like
big contracts through a book.

724
00:30:25,531 --> 00:30:27,961
and because they're some of the only
ones with a book out there about

725
00:30:27,961 --> 00:30:29,196
it, and we work with it quite a few.

726
00:30:29,401 --> 00:30:32,581
Organizations actually like publish
a book as their organization or

727
00:30:32,851 --> 00:30:35,941
have a systematic thing where like
one of their executives publishes

728
00:30:35,941 --> 00:30:39,661
a book every year that helps sort
of build their mind, share each

729
00:30:39,961 --> 00:30:42,871
in different ways That attracts,
sometimes it's to attract employees

730
00:30:42,871 --> 00:30:46,711
or partners or customers or
investors, like whatever it is.

731
00:30:46,711 --> 00:30:50,581
It's a very, you know, because it's
not a traditional marketing channel,

732
00:30:50,581 --> 00:30:52,411
I actually think it becomes really

733
00:30:52,891 --> 00:30:53,311
Yeah.

734
00:30:53,791 --> 00:30:54,691
I think so, man.

735
00:30:54,871 --> 00:30:57,781
Well, with, and I want to go
to go to ai 'cause I, you know,

736
00:30:57,781 --> 00:30:59,071
it's obviously a hot topic.

737
00:30:59,071 --> 00:31:01,831
It's only getting more hot
by the minute, it seems

738
00:31:01,831 --> 00:31:04,051
like when everything's
getting cheaper, faster, you

739
00:31:04,051 --> 00:31:05,821
know, tools for everybody.

740
00:31:07,021 --> 00:31:10,446
of course you could write a book
very quickly with ai, but I. I

741
00:31:10,446 --> 00:31:11,766
wouldn't say it's all about speed.

742
00:31:11,766 --> 00:31:14,256
You can write an
effective book as well.

743
00:31:14,286 --> 00:31:15,576
Like I'll, I'll say an example.

744
00:31:15,816 --> 00:31:20,976
I'm an advisor of a company,
called delphi.ai, and one of the

745
00:31:20,976 --> 00:31:24,426
use cases, lesser known, is you
can write a really solid book or

746
00:31:24,426 --> 00:31:27,486
at least start the process because
it's all based off your knowledge.

747
00:31:27,516 --> 00:31:28,986
Like this digital mind,

748
00:31:29,406 --> 00:31:30,126
we trump it.

749
00:31:30,436 --> 00:31:33,286
So you can like literally pull in
quotes and all that stuff from like

750
00:31:33,286 --> 00:31:34,726
this podcast, I can make a book.

751
00:31:35,146 --> 00:31:36,346
And that's actually the plan.

752
00:31:36,796 --> 00:31:37,726
It's like, why not?

753
00:31:37,786 --> 00:31:40,276
It's almost like a Tim
Ferris's tribe of mentors

754
00:31:40,276 --> 00:31:41,296
kinda style, you know?

755
00:31:41,746 --> 00:31:45,106
But like how would you, I guess
my question would be like,

756
00:31:45,106 --> 00:31:49,696
how do you guys have people
use AI or some tools to kind

757
00:31:49,696 --> 00:31:53,536
of get that manuscript, the
initial draft out of them?

758
00:31:53,536 --> 00:31:55,636
'cause I know that's the
biggest hurdle for most people.

759
00:31:55,951 --> 00:31:59,071
Yeah, I mean the, the advance
in transcription tools has been

760
00:31:59,071 --> 00:32:02,521
huge over the past few years,
which helps a lot because a

761
00:32:02,521 --> 00:32:06,271
big part of our method, is
actually interviewing people

762
00:32:06,271 --> 00:32:07,411
and writing the book for them.

763
00:32:07,471 --> 00:32:10,591
Like there's a lot of people
have, you know, writer's

764
00:32:10,591 --> 00:32:11,491
block is a real thing.

765
00:32:11,761 --> 00:32:13,081
Talkers block is not a thing.

766
00:32:13,456 --> 00:32:13,696
true.

767
00:32:14,476 --> 00:32:14,656
Yeah.

768
00:32:14,776 --> 00:32:19,036
so if you're sitting, if like part
of our, you know, our, our scribes

769
00:32:19,066 --> 00:32:21,586
that we, that our people sort of
create a partner in writing their

770
00:32:21,586 --> 00:32:24,466
book are not just great writers
and not just thoughtful about

771
00:32:24,466 --> 00:32:27,616
structuring the book, but really
great, great engaging interviewers.

772
00:32:27,616 --> 00:32:31,246
And so they'll really work with
you to position this and outline

773
00:32:31,246 --> 00:32:33,526
it and understand what you wanna
accomplish, and then they'll.

774
00:32:34,049 --> 00:32:35,399
it'll feel like a
friendly conversation.

775
00:32:35,399 --> 00:32:38,699
They just pull the information, the
stories, the important principles,

776
00:32:38,704 --> 00:32:40,109
the the key quotes out of you.

777
00:32:40,529 --> 00:32:42,869
And that's the process
for running into the book.

778
00:32:44,909 --> 00:32:47,519
our, we are always like
experimenting with ai.

779
00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:51,179
It is still, I, I think it'll.

780
00:32:51,494 --> 00:32:54,584
The end result will be to make
the great people more prolific.

781
00:32:55,304 --> 00:33:00,014
and there are things that it speeds
up, but not, it's still not great

782
00:33:00,014 --> 00:33:02,654
for like long form pros generation.

783
00:33:02,654 --> 00:33:07,244
It just doesn't quite have the,
like, the touch yet, that you want.

784
00:33:07,244 --> 00:33:11,264
And so it, there are advantages
to it, but it's just, it's

785
00:33:11,264 --> 00:33:13,454
sort of a different trade off
of like you spend more time

786
00:33:13,454 --> 00:33:14,354
editing because you can't.

787
00:33:15,134 --> 00:33:16,784
The first draft is a
little further off.

788
00:33:17,954 --> 00:33:20,684
and the, especially when you're
trying to build a very long,

789
00:33:20,684 --> 00:33:25,784
very thoughtful like thread
of continuous ideas, it's much

790
00:33:25,784 --> 00:33:26,864
easier for it to lose the threat.

791
00:33:26,864 --> 00:33:28,994
And it's much harder to find
when the threat is lost.

792
00:33:28,994 --> 00:33:31,724
So you just have to, like, if
you did AI generation, you have

793
00:33:31,724 --> 00:33:34,964
to spend a little more time in
editing and be a little more

794
00:33:34,964 --> 00:33:38,234
concerned about the structure and
the linearity of the thoughts.

795
00:33:39,824 --> 00:33:42,044
But I think to your point, like
depending on the kind of book that

796
00:33:42,044 --> 00:33:44,294
you wanna write, if what you wanna
write is a very disjointed tribe

797
00:33:44,294 --> 00:33:46,364
of mentors thing where you're
just like, here's an episode,

798
00:33:46,364 --> 00:33:47,774
condense it down, plug it in.

799
00:33:48,884 --> 00:33:51,704
I think those will be very
commoditized relatively quickly.

800
00:33:52,724 --> 00:33:54,584
I. Not that that
makes it a bad format.

801
00:33:54,584 --> 00:33:57,434
It could still be a great format,
but like AI will unlock that one

802
00:33:57,464 --> 00:34:00,344
sooner than a novel, for example.

803
00:34:01,064 --> 00:34:04,814
but we, I've seen really good, like,
it's just a great sounding board.

804
00:34:04,844 --> 00:34:08,144
I mean, it's a tireless,
tireless sounding board and,

805
00:34:09,254 --> 00:34:12,224
proofreader and editor and it
could just be a really good way.

806
00:34:12,974 --> 00:34:17,819
actually I did a great, One of my
very smartest friends about AI and

807
00:34:17,819 --> 00:34:19,619
usage in general is, Sean Devine.

808
00:34:20,189 --> 00:34:23,879
And, I had him on, I had
him on my podcast, smart

809
00:34:23,879 --> 00:34:26,339
Friends, and he was like, this
was a year and a half ago.

810
00:34:26,339 --> 00:34:29,279
And he's like, it's comp AI has
completely changed how I hire.

811
00:34:29,759 --> 00:34:37,259
I now hire for, two traits, which
is like curiosity and endurance.

812
00:34:37,709 --> 00:34:38,159
Hmm.

813
00:34:38,204 --> 00:34:38,424
Yep.

814
00:34:38,819 --> 00:34:43,649
Like the, the, the, I could be, I
could be, misquoting that, but like

815
00:34:43,649 --> 00:34:45,479
endurance or something very like it.

816
00:34:45,479 --> 00:34:47,669
He's like, this is the
most important thing.

817
00:34:47,729 --> 00:34:51,929
Like you now have not just a bicycle
for the mind, but like a nuclear

818
00:34:51,929 --> 00:34:55,199
reactor for the mind, but it only
really operates as long as you do.

819
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:57,269
Like, you have to keep the,
you have to keep hitting

820
00:34:57,269 --> 00:35:00,539
the ball back because it,
it will iterate instantly.

821
00:35:00,569 --> 00:35:03,989
And so if you're not re
like feeding it something.

822
00:35:04,799 --> 00:35:08,309
If you're not reacting to
it, if you're not, continuing

823
00:35:08,309 --> 00:35:10,859
to push and refine it,
then like it stops working.

824
00:35:11,039 --> 00:35:15,509
And so, you know, can you put in a
12 hour day with like a relentless

825
00:35:15,509 --> 00:35:18,017
volley partner who's just like
hitting the ball back instantly?

826
00:35:18,089 --> 00:35:20,969
It's like playing
speed playing,  right?

827
00:35:20,969 --> 00:35:21,149
Yeah.

828
00:35:21,149 --> 00:35:22,619
It's like playing chess
against the computer.

829
00:35:22,619 --> 00:35:24,149
Like it moves instantly
and you're like.

830
00:35:24,734 --> 00:35:25,184
Fuck.

831
00:35:25,274 --> 00:35:25,964
I need to think.

832
00:35:26,624 --> 00:35:27,044
Yeah.

833
00:35:28,184 --> 00:35:31,544
so, you know, that, but for
all work is like a really

834
00:35:31,544 --> 00:35:35,114
interesting psychological shift
and knowing that, you know,

835
00:35:35,294 --> 00:35:37,364
this is another one that Sean
mentioned that's counterintuitive,

836
00:35:37,364 --> 00:35:39,044
but like options are free.

837
00:35:39,044 --> 00:35:42,119
I. When we're working with
a human, we're used to being

838
00:35:42,119 --> 00:35:43,199
like, gimme three good options.

839
00:35:43,199 --> 00:35:45,689
And I'll pick one because saying,
gimme a hundred good options, and

840
00:35:45,689 --> 00:35:46,889
I'll pick one would be psychotic.

841
00:35:47,114 --> 00:35:47,354
Mm-hmm.

842
00:35:47,909 --> 00:35:50,639
and so, so like, but with
AI you can say, gimme a

843
00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:51,449
hundred, gimme a thousand.

844
00:35:51,509 --> 00:35:52,379
I hate all of those.

845
00:35:52,409 --> 00:35:55,169
Gimme 2000 more like,
okay, now rank order them.

846
00:35:55,169 --> 00:35:56,489
Now throw away anything like.

847
00:35:56,879 --> 00:36:00,269
It's very, there's some
counterintuitive things about it

848
00:36:00,299 --> 00:36:04,169
that, you know, a lot of writers I
think are relearning how to write

849
00:36:04,319 --> 00:36:08,969
and with, with new tools and, you
know, I like, I very much love my

850
00:36:08,969 --> 00:36:11,789
job and I love talking to authors
all day, but I've also like, shit, I

851
00:36:11,789 --> 00:36:15,989
wish I could just, I block off some
time and really like wrap my head

852
00:36:15,989 --> 00:36:17,399
around working with these tools.

853
00:36:17,699 --> 00:36:18,479
Oh, I bet, man.

854
00:36:18,509 --> 00:36:21,689
I mean, it's a, it's a monumental
task and it's, it's good that,

855
00:36:21,689 --> 00:36:25,079
yeah, I position at least myself
in a way that I can monetize that

856
00:36:25,484 --> 00:36:26,969
and be the source of that truth.

857
00:36:28,139 --> 00:36:30,839
but yeah, man, I mean, it's, it's
changing and the thing I always just

858
00:36:30,839 --> 00:36:34,019
say is like, just get your hands on
something that you can stick with

859
00:36:34,019 --> 00:36:36,869
and really understand and grasp
and, and like you said, be curious.

860
00:36:36,869 --> 00:36:38,159
You can keep going
down the rabbit hole.

861
00:36:38,789 --> 00:36:38,849
yeah.

862
00:36:39,449 --> 00:36:40,919
I mean, I'll, I'll
just plug this here.

863
00:36:40,919 --> 00:36:44,669
I know at timely, you know,
deep seek is, is like making

864
00:36:44,669 --> 00:36:47,909
all the, the world news it
seems like, but perplexity is

865
00:36:47,909 --> 00:36:50,369
like my go-to research tool.

866
00:36:50,399 --> 00:36:52,649
But when you hook the two
together, which you can now,

867
00:36:53,669 --> 00:36:57,149
it's like insane amount of real
time searching plus reasoning.

868
00:36:57,299 --> 00:37:02,369
And it's, it's talk about
like deep research in seconds

869
00:37:02,589 --> 00:37:03,119
very cool.

870
00:37:03,569 --> 00:37:04,169
Try that out.

871
00:37:04,259 --> 00:37:04,439
Yeah,

872
00:37:04,799 --> 00:37:05,139
All right.

873
00:37:05,849 --> 00:37:06,749
it's, it's pretty sweet.

874
00:37:07,319 --> 00:37:08,729
But, how about like Naval?

875
00:37:08,729 --> 00:37:10,589
I wanna, I wanna bring out
some philosophy, like some

876
00:37:10,589 --> 00:37:13,709
things that have impacted you
through, especially through

877
00:37:13,709 --> 00:37:17,339
this journey of, you know,
becoming the CEO of Scribe Media.

878
00:37:17,339 --> 00:37:18,509
What, 18 months ago?

879
00:37:18,689 --> 00:37:21,929
And like, one of the quotes
that Naval just sticks out to me

880
00:37:21,929 --> 00:37:23,369
is that happiness is a choice.

881
00:37:23,659 --> 00:37:28,099
And I, I genuinely believe
that's true and that's

882
00:37:28,099 --> 00:37:29,479
kind of, I don't know.

883
00:37:29,479 --> 00:37:32,059
Some people feel like happiness
shouldn't be the thing that

884
00:37:32,059 --> 00:37:34,339
you strive for, but it's
like, why the hell not?

885
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:34,789
Yeah.

886
00:37:34,789 --> 00:37:36,169
I don't know what else is there?

887
00:37:36,169 --> 00:37:37,489
And, and yeah.

888
00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:40,969
So how does maybe that quote
or something like that from

889
00:37:40,969 --> 00:37:43,339
Naval helped you through?

890
00:37:43,339 --> 00:37:45,769
I'm sure like burning it
out throughout the nights,

891
00:37:45,769 --> 00:37:48,619
you know, figuring it
just the stressful times.

892
00:37:48,974 --> 00:37:55,079
Yeah, I think, You know, choice is
almost, he has said it's a choice.

893
00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:56,369
He has also said it's a skill.

894
00:37:56,549 --> 00:37:59,819
And I think like skill is actually a
more useful frame because you don't,

895
00:38:01,439 --> 00:38:05,519
when you hear happiness is a choice,
it's almost, it almost makes you

896
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:07,349
feel guilty, you know, or something.

897
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:07,694
It's like,

898
00:38:07,994 --> 00:38:08,294
Yeah.

899
00:38:08,879 --> 00:38:10,349
just choose to be happy, dumbass.

900
00:38:10,439 --> 00:38:12,509
Like,  what's wrong with you?

901
00:38:12,569 --> 00:38:14,249
Don't, you know, there's a
switch you can just flip.

902
00:38:14,459 --> 00:38:16,679
And like, while that.

903
00:38:18,644 --> 00:38:21,044
Like, wow, that's probably true.

904
00:38:21,044 --> 00:38:23,564
You have to do some work to
build that switch, right?

905
00:38:24,344 --> 00:38:26,804
or remember that it's
there or you know, have it

906
00:38:26,804 --> 00:38:27,884
in arm's reach, you know?

907
00:38:28,004 --> 00:38:29,894
So I think the skill framing.

908
00:38:31,184 --> 00:38:34,754
Reminds you that it'll take time
to get better at, and that you

909
00:38:34,754 --> 00:38:37,484
should expect to have to work
at getting better at every day.

910
00:38:37,484 --> 00:38:40,694
But it also, you know, it will
yield to effort and intention.

911
00:38:40,694 --> 00:38:43,364
And if you work on becoming
happier, you can become happier.

912
00:38:43,664 --> 00:38:46,244
I also remember, I've been following
the ball for long enough to know

913
00:38:46,244 --> 00:38:49,289
that like he wasn't always happy and
he didn't always focus on happiness.

914
00:38:49,289 --> 00:38:50,984
He didn't always value happiness.

915
00:38:51,824 --> 00:38:54,854
and so saying that it's a,
you know, a, a choice is

916
00:38:54,854 --> 00:38:57,104
not to imply that it's easy.

917
00:38:58,064 --> 00:38:59,744
but that you, but that it is.

918
00:39:00,614 --> 00:39:03,074
Something that you can
control with effort over time.

919
00:39:04,544 --> 00:39:07,664
and it's funny, you know, he's,
I think he spent a long time

920
00:39:07,664 --> 00:39:11,114
being unhappy while getting rich
and then got rich and is like,

921
00:39:11,324 --> 00:39:13,934
Hmm, that didn't make me happy.

922
00:39:14,804 --> 00:39:16,064
maybe that's a different quest.

923
00:39:16,424 --> 00:39:19,304
And so like, I think
not that many people.

924
00:39:19,604 --> 00:39:21,584
That, you know, I know
some really happy people.

925
00:39:21,794 --> 00:39:22,964
I know some really rich people.

926
00:39:23,084 --> 00:39:27,944
I know very few, like very happy
and very rich people, especially,

927
00:39:27,944 --> 00:39:31,754
you know, Naval who went on the
quest to become both of those.

928
00:39:31,784 --> 00:39:34,484
It's not like he was born happy
and happened to become rich.

929
00:39:34,694 --> 00:39:38,144
It's not like he was born rich
and happens to be happy, like he

930
00:39:38,144 --> 00:39:40,754
started without either of them
and deliberately built both.

931
00:39:40,784 --> 00:39:42,734
And so this book is very much like.

932
00:39:43,354 --> 00:39:46,384
Here are the principles and
the tactics and the mindset

933
00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:49,954
that he used to go from,
you know, not that, to that.

934
00:39:50,374 --> 00:39:51,934
And, you know, he,
he's got an interest.

935
00:39:51,964 --> 00:39:54,304
Like, his description of this is
like, if you wanna know how to lose

936
00:39:54,304 --> 00:39:57,064
weight, you don't go ask somebody
who's been skinny their whole life.

937
00:39:57,064 --> 00:39:58,354
They're not even gonna know
what you're talking about.

938
00:39:58,714 --> 00:40:01,384
Like, you, you don't find somebody
who was, you know, got up to

939
00:40:01,384 --> 00:40:05,194
600 pounds and then got back
down to, you know, 1 50, 1 60.

940
00:40:05,194 --> 00:40:07,444
Like that person knows
what they're talking about.

941
00:40:07,474 --> 00:40:09,094
'cause they've been on both
sides and they've had to

942
00:40:09,094 --> 00:40:10,264
fight the fight to get.

943
00:40:10,979 --> 00:40:14,159
You know, to, to overcome the thing
a bigger, they, they beat a bigger

944
00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:15,209
dragon than you're trying to beat.

945
00:40:15,419 --> 00:40:17,069
And like that's the
person who can teach you.

946
00:40:18,149 --> 00:40:21,299
and so I think, you know, when
you're filtering for people to

947
00:40:21,299 --> 00:40:25,649
read, people to emulate heroes,
you know, there's a lot of people,

948
00:40:26,489 --> 00:40:30,119
talk in a game that, they learn
from somebody else, not firsthand.

949
00:40:30,179 --> 00:40:32,759
And that's just a different, you
know, there's a different level

950
00:40:32,759 --> 00:40:33,719
of knowledge that comes with that.

951
00:40:34,034 --> 00:40:34,784
that's a good frame.

952
00:40:34,844 --> 00:40:35,204
Yeah.

953
00:40:35,204 --> 00:40:35,684
And.

954
00:40:36,074 --> 00:40:38,204
Yeah, that, and I know Naval,
you're absolutely right.

955
00:40:38,204 --> 00:40:40,154
Like it, it's cool to
see that progression.

956
00:40:40,154 --> 00:40:43,184
And I know you outlined
that a ton in, in the book.

957
00:40:43,544 --> 00:40:47,714
Like is there something that
you, either from the Almanac

958
00:40:47,744 --> 00:40:51,134
or, or just studying naval,
that keeps you grounded?

959
00:40:51,134 --> 00:40:53,624
Like is there a tactic
that you go to often?

960
00:40:54,449 --> 00:40:56,579
I, there's a lot on
the happiness side.

961
00:40:57,899 --> 00:41:02,309
There's a lot of little ones that
just became habits, that, that

962
00:41:02,309 --> 00:41:05,129
I think he, I mean, he's such
a good distiller and he comes

963
00:41:05,129 --> 00:41:06,419
up these sticky little phrases.

964
00:41:06,869 --> 00:41:12,899
And so, some of these seem very
small, but if you do them every day,

965
00:41:12,899 --> 00:41:14,309
if you do them multiple times a day,

966
00:41:16,349 --> 00:41:18,479
It does, I think, meaningfully
change your, like, base

967
00:41:18,479 --> 00:41:19,379
level of happiness.

968
00:41:19,379 --> 00:41:23,699
And so, two in particular, there's
one that, you know, I drink coffee

969
00:41:23,699 --> 00:41:26,729
every morning and he's got one
that says like, if you can't be

970
00:41:26,729 --> 00:41:29,129
happy with a cup of coffee, you
won't be happy with a yacht.

971
00:41:30,148 --> 00:41:30,268
I

972
00:41:30,303 --> 00:41:34,323
Which is, which is a beautiful
encapsulation of everything

973
00:41:34,323 --> 00:41:36,543
that you need to know about,
like learning to appreciate

974
00:41:36,543 --> 00:41:37,983
the things that you have and.

975
00:41:39,918 --> 00:41:40,458
Take it.

976
00:41:40,458 --> 00:41:43,188
That reminds me, and I think
about it on my first cup of

977
00:41:43,188 --> 00:41:45,708
coffee every single day and
just like take a second with the

978
00:41:45,708 --> 00:41:47,208
steamy mug before your first sip.

979
00:41:47,238 --> 00:41:51,708
And you're just like, this little
thing is a fucking miracle that

980
00:41:51,708 --> 00:41:53,178
I can just really appreciate.

981
00:41:53,178 --> 00:41:56,418
And if I can't learn to appreciate
this, there's no point in

982
00:41:56,418 --> 00:41:57,558
striving for anything else.

983
00:41:57,563 --> 00:42:01,608
So like practice appreciation with
this thing in this moment, this

984
00:42:01,608 --> 00:42:06,859
humble thing, and let that be like
a moment that is complete of itself.

985
00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:08,749
It's like very mindfulness.

986
00:42:08,749 --> 00:42:10,969
It's like that moment of
zen that that you just

987
00:42:10,969 --> 00:42:12,174
carved out for yourself, you

988
00:42:12,474 --> 00:42:12,859
Yeah.

989
00:42:12,949 --> 00:42:16,219
And, and you can, I think he had
another one about a toothbrush.

990
00:42:16,699 --> 00:42:20,089
that's like whenever he is brushing
his teeth, like he, he uses

991
00:42:20,089 --> 00:42:23,689
that as a moment to just like,
concentrate on the feeling, like

992
00:42:23,689 --> 00:42:25,099
how good the toothbrush feels.

993
00:42:25,339 --> 00:42:26,449
Like don't look at your phone.

994
00:42:27,469 --> 00:42:29,389
Don't think about the tasks
that you're supposed to be

995
00:42:29,389 --> 00:42:31,609
doing, like, or could be doing.

996
00:42:31,939 --> 00:42:33,169
Like, just be very present.

997
00:42:33,739 --> 00:42:35,449
and having those triggers
that are things that will

998
00:42:35,449 --> 00:42:36,409
happen to you all the time.

999
00:42:36,409 --> 00:42:38,659
And another one is, when
you feel the sun on your

1000
00:42:38,659 --> 00:42:40,354
skin, look up and smile

1001
00:42:40,654 --> 00:42:41,164
Hmm.

1002
00:42:41,539 --> 00:42:42,619
and just like tiny thing.

1003
00:42:42,619 --> 00:42:44,479
I mean, you live in San
Diego, so you'll, you'll have

1004
00:42:44,479 --> 00:42:46,219
to stop doing that at some
point and go get some shit.

1005
00:42:46,639 --> 00:42:47,539
Go get some stuff done.

1006
00:42:47,779 --> 00:42:48,049
Yeah.

1007
00:42:50,749 --> 00:42:51,799
don't stare right at it.

1008
00:42:51,859 --> 00:42:52,429
Important,

1009
00:42:53,164 --> 00:42:55,534
Yeah, Huberman sets to
stare at it, but it's gotta

1010
00:42:55,534 --> 00:42:56,644
be low on the horizon.

1011
00:42:57,724 --> 00:42:58,834
I know we're all
doing that these days.

1012
00:42:58,954 --> 00:43:01,234
But yeah, just little, little
things that stick with you.

1013
00:43:02,104 --> 00:43:04,354
so yeah, I, some of those
are, have worked their

1014
00:43:04,354 --> 00:43:05,314
way into my daily life and

1015
00:43:05,314 --> 00:43:06,424
that I, I really appreciate.

1016
00:43:06,724 --> 00:43:07,954
yeah, thanks for Sha.

1017
00:43:07,954 --> 00:43:09,184
Is there one that hasn't worked?

1018
00:43:09,184 --> 00:43:12,364
Like, or one that you just like, all
right, Naval, that sounded really

1019
00:43:12,364 --> 00:43:14,434
good, but it's fucking useless.

1020
00:43:16,179 --> 00:43:19,744
one, one that I'm still struggling
to implement, that I think Naval

1021
00:43:19,744 --> 00:43:23,944
is probably better at than me
is, is just like, He's got a

1022
00:43:23,944 --> 00:43:27,814
very, it's almost a Buddhist,
approach of the, like, only the

1023
00:43:27,814 --> 00:43:29,854
individual ascends or transcends.

1024
00:43:30,184 --> 00:43:33,004
And that it is a pretty
hard line on like, you're

1025
00:43:33,004 --> 00:43:36,634
not responsible for other
people's feelings or happiness.

1026
00:43:37,774 --> 00:43:39,784
and that's just a really
difficult thing in practice

1027
00:43:39,784 --> 00:43:40,804
day to day, you know,

1028
00:43:41,884 --> 00:43:42,214
Yeah.

1029
00:43:42,874 --> 00:43:45,034
you've got people you love
around you all the time and you

1030
00:43:45,034 --> 00:43:47,404
care about how they feel and
how their experience is going.

1031
00:43:47,404 --> 00:43:51,604
And, and I'm not actually
sure that it's like ideal.

1032
00:43:51,889 --> 00:43:55,639
To totally separate, you know, it
is not ideal for your relationships.

1033
00:43:55,699 --> 00:43:58,669
It might be, you know, if you want
to go become a monk and like take

1034
00:43:58,909 --> 00:44:03,409
complete, perfect accountability
for your internal state, and you're

1035
00:44:03,409 --> 00:44:07,039
just observe, observing like the
objective neurochemicals in your

1036
00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:12,079
brain and how much dopamine you get,
maybe, yeah, it is optimal to like.

1037
00:44:12,679 --> 00:44:15,409
Totally separate from all
relationships, but that's at least

1038
00:44:15,409 --> 00:44:16,759
not the way I want to live my life.

1039
00:44:16,819 --> 00:44:20,209
And so there's a lot of times
when, you know, that is just

1040
00:44:20,209 --> 00:44:24,529
a, a messy area of trade-offs,
I think, around relationships.

1041
00:44:24,529 --> 00:44:27,379
And when you, when you do choose
to take on other people's emotional

1042
00:44:27,379 --> 00:44:30,379
states to show empathy and work
through something together and,

1043
00:44:31,369 --> 00:44:35,869
you know, or, or share, you know,
share pain, share experiences,

1044
00:44:36,361 --> 00:44:39,151
And not jump to conclusions
too quickly or try to solve

1045
00:44:39,151 --> 00:44:42,781
it for someone else, or maybe
even yourself sometimes, you

1046
00:44:42,781 --> 00:44:43,981
know, just like let it simmer.

1047
00:44:45,076 --> 00:44:46,591
Something usually connects for, for

1048
00:44:46,756 --> 00:44:50,446
yeah, yeah, and, you know, but
he's, he's decades into this

1049
00:44:50,446 --> 00:44:53,116
journey, so it's possible that I,
that's just a naive take from me.

1050
00:44:53,116 --> 00:44:56,026
But, it is, I, that is an extreme.

1051
00:44:56,716 --> 00:44:58,486
I think he's got a relatively
extreme stance, and it comes

1052
00:44:58,486 --> 00:45:00,616
from the philosophies that, you
know, that he's right in some

1053
00:45:00,616 --> 00:45:03,376
of the extreme, some of the
philosophers are extreme by nature.

1054
00:45:04,156 --> 00:45:07,336
so I, I don't disagree with it
so much as like, have chosen a

1055
00:45:07,336 --> 00:45:09,586
different path or at least live
a different path in the moment.

1056
00:45:09,586 --> 00:45:13,216
And, yeah, we're, we're all,
we're all on different paths

1057
00:45:13,216 --> 00:45:13,936
at different places, so,

1058
00:45:14,581 --> 00:45:16,921
Absolutely, man, different
upbringings and all that.

1059
00:45:16,921 --> 00:45:18,601
So, you know, gotta
keep that in mind.

1060
00:45:18,601 --> 00:45:21,361
We're all starting in different
places, which is totally fine.

1061
00:45:22,081 --> 00:45:24,601
Give yourself a break,
everyone, please.

1062
00:45:24,991 --> 00:45:28,021
So I, well, that leads me to this
thought of like, you've had a,

1063
00:45:28,021 --> 00:45:32,251
you've worn a lot of hats and still
do, you know, author, curator, I,

1064
00:45:32,251 --> 00:45:33,361
I call you an author, obviously.

1065
00:45:34,291 --> 00:45:40,141
and, you know, founder, investor,
podcaster, you know, and all

1066
00:45:40,141 --> 00:45:42,241
these things Now, CEO, like.

1067
00:45:42,826 --> 00:45:45,796
I'm thinking of fulfillment, like
that's the frame I have here.

1068
00:45:45,796 --> 00:45:49,396
So is there like a, a myth,
almost like a toxic myth

1069
00:45:49,396 --> 00:45:53,176
that you think that you had
to unlearn in this process?

1070
00:45:53,206 --> 00:45:56,566
You know, for as a C or
any of these hats, like has

1071
00:45:56,566 --> 00:46:00,286
something come up that you've
reframed over that those years?

1072
00:46:02,215 --> 00:46:07,795
I want to say I've sort of
given up on the concept of done.

1073
00:46:09,805 --> 00:46:15,295
Like there is no, there is no
finish line really, like any, any

1074
00:46:15,295 --> 00:46:17,515
given finish line is arbitrary and,

1075
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,795
I, I will always be working on
something and just trying to find

1076
00:46:25,795 --> 00:46:28,255
good way, high leverage ways to
like, make the future better.

1077
00:46:29,755 --> 00:46:30,205
and.

1078
00:46:32,650 --> 00:46:34,690
That, that work will never
be done, and I'll never be

1079
00:46:34,690 --> 00:46:35,860
quite satisfied with it.

1080
00:46:35,860 --> 00:46:40,420
And that's like I have to learn
to, learn to exist in a state of

1081
00:46:40,420 --> 00:46:44,260
happiness without anything being
like done and complete and at rest.

1082
00:46:45,460 --> 00:46:48,010
so, you know, there's another,
there's a neval that's like,

1083
00:46:49,930 --> 00:46:53,080
happiness is peace and motion
and peace is happiness at rest.

1084
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:53,770
mm-hmm.

1085
00:46:54,220 --> 00:46:55,000
Yeah, that's a

1086
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:59,230
And so learning to become
like peaceful and in motion.

1087
00:46:59,620 --> 00:47:06,610
At the same time, learn to be happy
and satisfied without feeling done

1088
00:47:07,570 --> 00:47:08,980
'cause, you will never be done.

1089
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:12,850
is is a constant quest.

1090
00:47:13,630 --> 00:47:18,730
and I'm not good at it, but
I, I feel lucky to have at

1091
00:47:18,730 --> 00:47:20,320
least learned that that's.

1092
00:47:20,875 --> 00:47:22,465
Something that I need
to get better at.

1093
00:47:23,425 --> 00:47:28,705
and try to, you know, refocus on and
just, you know, live in that space.

1094
00:47:28,705 --> 00:47:30,355
And some of the people
that I admire the most are

1095
00:47:30,355 --> 00:47:31,585
really, really good at that.

1096
00:47:31,615 --> 00:47:37,165
You know, they even under high
stress, you know, heavy fire, they

1097
00:47:37,195 --> 00:47:39,565
can be peaceful and productive.

1098
00:47:39,625 --> 00:47:43,915
And I think that's the mindset
to have to stay in the game for

1099
00:47:43,915 --> 00:47:46,105
a really long time, which is what
you need to do if you're gonna

1100
00:47:46,105 --> 00:47:49,285
have great compounding results
and great relationships And,

1101
00:47:50,485 --> 00:47:53,365
You know, easier said than done,
especially when you hold yourself

1102
00:47:53,365 --> 00:47:55,585
to high standards and you care a
lot about, you know, what you're

1103
00:47:55,585 --> 00:47:56,665
doing and who you're doing it with.

1104
00:47:57,235 --> 00:48:01,285
But, that's, that's a goal.

1105
00:48:01,405 --> 00:48:02,005
That's a focus.

1106
00:48:02,695 --> 00:48:03,415
I love it, man.

1107
00:48:03,475 --> 00:48:06,205
I kind of want to end it right
there 'cause that's, it's impactful.

1108
00:48:06,415 --> 00:48:07,165
Thanks for sharing.

1109
00:48:07,225 --> 00:48:08,275
Definition of done.

1110
00:48:08,395 --> 00:48:08,905
Yeah.

1111
00:48:09,115 --> 00:48:09,865
What is that?

1112
00:48:09,865 --> 00:48:10,135
Yeah.

1113
00:48:10,375 --> 00:48:11,305
Make, yeah.

1114
00:48:11,305 --> 00:48:13,795
So thanks for, thanks
for sharing, man.

1115
00:48:13,885 --> 00:48:17,395
And yeah, who, I guess a
couple things, like who are

1116
00:48:17,395 --> 00:48:18,775
you following closely now?

1117
00:48:18,775 --> 00:48:19,735
Obviously Naval, Balaji.

1118
00:48:20,995 --> 00:48:23,845
I think you have something with
Musk coming up here, right?

1119
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,990
Yeah, I'm working on Elon
Musk, very like, tough to pit

1120
00:48:28,990 --> 00:48:30,490
down, but I'm very focused.

1121
00:48:30,490 --> 00:48:31,870
I'm, I'm focused on the like.

1122
00:48:32,740 --> 00:48:35,770
First few decades of building
that he did, and like what

1123
00:48:35,770 --> 00:48:40,630
makes his mindset and his
approach really unique in the,

1124
00:48:40,810 --> 00:48:43,600
the scale of problems that he
tackles and how the intensity

1125
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:44,620
with which he tackles them.

1126
00:48:45,610 --> 00:48:47,920
I think there's something for all
entrepreneurs to learn in that.

1127
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,520
And so that's really the book
that's coming together, this year.

1128
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,020
Yeah, I'm, I'm excited about it.

1129
00:48:53,170 --> 00:48:55,615
I hope that it'll,
I hope it's helpful.

1130
00:48:55,615 --> 00:48:58,465
I hope it helps, you know,
birth another, a generation

1131
00:48:58,465 --> 00:49:02,245
of a thousand Musks and, you
know, usher in a golden age in

1132
00:49:02,245 --> 00:49:03,445
the next industrial revolution.

1133
00:49:03,505 --> 00:49:06,385
That's the, that's my
humble hope for this book.

1134
00:49:07,175 --> 00:49:07,445
Nice.

1135
00:49:07,625 --> 00:49:08,025
I love it.

1136
00:49:08,025 --> 00:49:08,265
Yeah.

1137
00:49:08,565 --> 00:49:08,875
yeah,

1138
00:49:09,325 --> 00:49:09,567
yeah.

1139
00:49:09,759 --> 00:49:15,604
I, I follow, I, I think, Casey,
er is, is a little more technical

1140
00:49:15,604 --> 00:49:17,194
than like naval or Musk.

1141
00:49:18,124 --> 00:49:20,134
but I think he's an
incredible talent, un

1142
00:49:20,134 --> 00:49:21,514
underrated, under followed,

1143
00:49:23,629 --> 00:49:26,269
Very, very much in the tech
world, but like brilliant.

1144
00:49:27,139 --> 00:49:27,769
brilliant guy.

1145
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:29,539
I don't follow 'em, so
that's great though.

1146
00:49:29,599 --> 00:49:30,469
Add 'em to the list.

1147
00:49:30,799 --> 00:49:31,219
Yeah.

1148
00:49:31,279 --> 00:49:31,519
Hi.

1149
00:49:31,579 --> 00:49:32,419
Highly recommended.

1150
00:49:33,139 --> 00:49:33,649
Cool.

1151
00:49:34,189 --> 00:49:34,669
Awesome, man.

1152
00:49:34,699 --> 00:49:37,219
Well, Eric, dude, this has
been a pleasure and thanks

1153
00:49:37,219 --> 00:49:38,989
for being so open, honest.

1154
00:49:38,989 --> 00:49:39,679
I know you are.

1155
00:49:39,769 --> 00:49:43,069
And first time we chatted, but
like yeah, we, we went there.

1156
00:49:43,069 --> 00:49:43,519
So

1157
00:49:43,824 --> 00:49:44,114
Cool.

1158
00:49:44,614 --> 00:49:44,994
Of course.

1159
00:49:45,174 --> 00:49:46,099
Tha thank you for having me.

1160
00:49:46,099 --> 00:49:46,834
This is, very fun.

1161
00:49:47,449 --> 00:49:47,929
Yeah.

1162
00:49:47,929 --> 00:49:51,019
In scribe media.com,
is that the best place?

1163
00:49:51,019 --> 00:49:54,289
Or where else should they find
Scribe and then also find you

1164
00:49:54,649 --> 00:49:56,659
Yeah, if you, if you're thinking
about a book, if you think a book

1165
00:49:56,659 --> 00:50:00,019
can help build your business,
if you've got a, a strain

1166
00:50:00,019 --> 00:50:01,699
notes app full of book ideas,

1167
00:50:02,629 --> 00:50:03,139
or Otter

1168
00:50:04,309 --> 00:50:04,609
Yeah.

1169
00:50:04,759 --> 00:50:05,179
Yeah.

1170
00:50:05,749 --> 00:50:06,139
Perfect.

1171
00:50:06,139 --> 00:50:06,289
Yeah.

1172
00:50:06,289 --> 00:50:06,529
Yeah.

1173
00:50:06,979 --> 00:50:08,659
so come, come just chat with us.

1174
00:50:09,169 --> 00:50:11,779
and we're happy to like, take you
through that, scribe media.com.

1175
00:50:11,779 --> 00:50:15,049
Just get a, a consult with
somebody on the team and, yeah,

1176
00:50:15,049 --> 00:50:18,739
all my personal stuff is at
ejorgenson.com and I'm on Twitter

1177
00:50:18,739 --> 00:50:20,809
X all the time, at Eric Jorgenson.

1178
00:50:20,959 --> 00:50:25,609
So happy to, to DM or, you know,
get you on the newsletter and

1179
00:50:25,969 --> 00:50:26,359
Yeah.

1180
00:50:26,959 --> 00:50:28,639
whatever el whatever else
you're interested in.

1181
00:50:28,789 --> 00:50:30,499
Go check it out, the
podcast and everything.

1182
00:50:30,499 --> 00:50:33,529
We will link everything, show notes,
description, make it easy for you.

1183
00:50:33,559 --> 00:50:35,064
So Eric, thank you my man.

1184
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:35,329
Mm-hmm.

1185
00:50:35,374 --> 00:50:35,889
Appreciate you.