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 Welcome to the VP Life Podcast, the show

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 where we bring you actionable health

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 advice from leading minds.

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 I'm your host Rob.

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 My guest today is Adil Khan, a Canadian

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 board certified physician and founder of

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 Eterna Health, working at the forefront

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 of regenerative medicine using stem

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 cells, peptides and gene therapies to

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 repair tissue, reduce inflammation and

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 optimise human

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 performance at a cellular level.

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 Expect to learn how regenerative medicine

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 is shifting healthcare from symptom

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 management to true biological repair,

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 what stem cells, peptides and emerging

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 therapies are actually doing at a

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 cellular level and how these therapies

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 are being used to treat injury, chronic

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 disease and even influence

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 the aging process itself.

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 Now, under the conversations, Dr.

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 Adil Khan.

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 Good morning, Dr.

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 Khan and thank you so much for joining me

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 on the podcast today.

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 It's an honour to have you on to discuss

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 all things longevity

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 and regenerative medicine.

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 Now, I can't imagine there are too many

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 in this space who aren't familiar with

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 you and your work, but for those who have

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 been living under a rock, would you mind

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 introducing yourself and

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 how you got into this space?

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 I know you've got quite the story there,

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 everything from sort of sports medicine

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 all the way to Tesla.

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 We've got time, so yeah, if you could

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 just run us through that.

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 Yeah, the Tesla thing is I guess

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 interesting, but because I was a regular

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 doctor with like a GP, just doing family

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 medicine and then I started doing sports

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 medicine and in sports medicine, we are

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 dealing with chronic injuries, people

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 with shoulder and shoes, knee, elbow,

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 whatever, the gamut.

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 And so people typically do physiotherapy,

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 they do cortisone injections, which are

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 just steroid injections to

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 help with pain and inflammation.

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 And if that doesn't work, you're usually

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 sent off to a surgeon or, you know, or

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 tell or or to take some pain

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 meds and just live with it.

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 So I was obviously not

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 satisfied with that approach.

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 And so I was kind of like, okay, there

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 has to be other

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 options to help these people.

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 And that's what led me to PRP, which is

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 platelet rich plasma.

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 And that's essentially where we just take

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 your blood, we concentrate the platelets,

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 which act like little molecules and

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 signals to help with healing.

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 And I worked with the guy

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 who actually pioneered PRP, Dr.

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 Gallia, he was kind of the first in the

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 world to do it for like Tiger Woods, a

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 bunch of other people.

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 So I was very fortunate to have him as a

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 mentor, and really learn, let's say the

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 foundation of regenerative medicine,

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 which is just the principles of how your

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 body can heal and cell

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 biology and all that stuff.

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 And, then that kind of

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 led me down this whole road.

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 Eventually, I got involved in a clinical

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 trial, using stem cells in

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 osteoarthritis, and for using body

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 people's own stem cells.

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 And we'll obviously go into, you know,

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 about what stem cells really are.

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 But, but the point was, this was a

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 clinical trial, and I was involved in

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 research, and I kind of just went down

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 the whole rabbit hole, of trying to find

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 what's the best for my patient.

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 And again, this was a lot of this was

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 driven by curiosity.

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 And, you know, just because you mentioned

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 the Tesla thing, I guess I had a little

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 bit of good fortune, and I

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 was an early investor in Tesla.

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 And so because of that, I had a little

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 bit more, let's say,

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 leeway and taking risk.

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 You know, unfortunately, most doctors

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 can't take much risk, because if they

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 have to follow, they have to follow their

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 college guidelines, they

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 have to stay within the box.

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 And you know, because

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 they're scared, right?

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 They're scared of their license, they're

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 scared of getting medical legal stuff.

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 And so I was kind of like, well, you

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 know, I have some, I have a decent,

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 decent foundation to kind of go lean back

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 on if I can't practice

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 medicine or whatever.

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 But, but it all it worked out pretty

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 well, obviously, in the sense that I was

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 able to build something outside of Canada

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 and get people coming to me from all over

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 the world, because I was just very

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 curious and trying to figure out what's

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 the best for my patient.

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 And that I think that's the kind of the

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 take home message is when you're driven

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 by curiosity and problem solving, then

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 you're going to eventually come and do

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 something that's meaningful, hopefully

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 for a lot of people.

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 And that's, that's what led me to the new

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 cells, which ultimately is what I think

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 got me a bit more well known in the last

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 last year or two, because I was the first

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 doctor in the world outside of Japan to

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 really start using those cells and

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 helping a lot of patients with that.

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 Yeah, that's incredible.

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 I just like to sort of dive into the sort

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 of this idea of regenerative medicine a

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 bit more, it sort of, it tends to fall

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 under this whole sort of functional sort

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 of integrated medicine sphere.

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 And I sort of found that within this

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 community of physicians, you have doctors

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 who are who are functional integrated,

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 but then they sort of tend to sort of

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 appear one way or the other.

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 Some of them tend to end up in this sort

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 of the regenerative space where some of

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 them tend to end up

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 in the gut based space.

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 Obviously, ultimately, of course, it all

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 ultimately comes down to the same thing

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 when you're dealing with something

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 systemically or chronically.

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 But how would you define regenerative

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 medicine and sort of maybe differentiated

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 from the rest of the sort of the

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 integrated space

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 because there is definitely,

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 well, there's a lot of similarity,

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 there's definitely a lot of differences

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 there that I think a lot of people tend

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 to get maybe just a bit confused over.

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 So yeah, how would you

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 define that space particular?

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 Yeah, I mean, look, regenerative medicine

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 is really about getting

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 the body to heal itself.

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 I know that it's a simple definition, but

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 that's at the core, that's what it is.

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 It's like, how do we give it the right

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 signals, the right cells, the right

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 scaffolds, and in this in the case, and

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 then so signal cell scaffolds, that's the

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 easy way to remember it.

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 Those are the three kind of recipe

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 ingredients that you need to help your

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 body to heal itself.

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 And it's really the biggest difference

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 though, it's I don't really like the word

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 functional medicine.

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 I know some people may not like that.

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 But I like I like systems biology.

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 Systems biology is a medical framework in

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 which we look at the body as a uniform

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 system, which if one component breaks

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 down, then it can

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 affect another component.

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 So for example, in Alzheimer's, we know

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 now that there's gut dysbiosis can affect

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 the brain from a new

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 inflammatory component.

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 That's just one example, but there's

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 millions of examples.

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 So the point is, the body is

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 interconnected and treating it as a

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 fragmented system as a fragmented

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 specialty based, which is what we set up

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 in modern medicine, doesn't work.

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 So yeah, that solid approach.

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 I suppose we're just going in on a rabbit

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 hole here off the cuff.

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 But why do you think I mean, you've been

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 through the traditional medical training

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 system, you didn't start off as a

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 naturopath or anything like that?

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 Why is medicine still so

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 siloed in its approach?

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 I mean, your systems

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 biology approach just makes sense.

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 Why do you feel the establishment such

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 that it is, it's still sort of driving

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 forward this idea that doctors should be

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 educated under this sort of in this sort

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 of very monocular,

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 especially the one to the better word

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 state where they just focus on one?

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 I mean, medicine is slow moving in

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 general, I think we're the only

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 profession that probably

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 still uses fax machines.

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 So like, that just that just shows you

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 how sad our profession is sometimes.

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 And the, but what's happening is, you

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 know, as an aside, just, you know,

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 because of all this tech, people, let's

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 call them tech bros going into the house

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 space and longevity space, it's it's

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 forcing doctors to help to either they're

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 either just going to become outdated, you

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 know what I mean, and AI and precision

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 medicine and all this is going to happen.

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 And then doctors all of a sudden realize

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 that they don't have a place that

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 ecosystem, if they don't keep up with

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 what's happening, right.

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 And so I think they're gonna a lot of

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 doctors are gonna be forced to keep up.

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 But the reason a lot of them are slow to

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 change is because they can just get away

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 with doing what

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 they've always been doing.

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 And there's no

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 pressure on them to change.

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 It's just like a guy is this is like

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 having a giant government body, right?

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 Why are governments so slow to get things

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 done, at least in you know, at least in

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 like Canada and UK, I think, and a lot of

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 times it's just because it's like it's

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 like turning a ship around like a giant

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 ship, you know, they're not agile and

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 flexible, they're just,

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 they're set up inefficiently.

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 And so even though the approach makes

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 sense, and it's logical, they want to

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 probably have like, you know, they

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 probably want to have decades of clinical

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 trials before they'll be like, okay, now

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 we can put this into guidelines, even

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 though if from a first principles, and

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 real world evidence

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 approach, it makes so much sense.

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 And clearly, the modern

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 system isn't working either.

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 So it's like, why not try something else?

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 But you know, and that's where I guess

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 the part of the problem with the system

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 is the way set up is, you know, to go

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 through this long regulatory framework,

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 you know, with phase one to phase two

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 phase three trials and all that costs

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 like $100 million in North America.

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 And it just like, who's who which

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 tactician, there's no one who can afford

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 to do that with like systems biology, you

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00:08:16,250 --> 00:08:17,333
 know, I mean, because this is biology

277
00:08:17,333 --> 00:08:19,166
 isn't like, it's not like a drug, you

278
00:08:19,166 --> 00:08:20,125
 know, it's not like,

279
00:08:20,125 --> 00:08:21,500
 it's, you can't pat it in it.

280
00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:23,041
 And you can't, you can't make millions of

281
00:08:23,125 --> 00:08:24,416
 billions of dollars off of it.

282
00:08:24,416 --> 00:08:25,833
 So just, it doesn't it

283
00:08:25,833 --> 00:08:26,958
 doesn't work with the system.

284
00:08:26,958 --> 00:08:28,791
 And so the only other solution is this

285
00:08:28,791 --> 00:08:31,000
 kind of grassroots movements, which is

286
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,291
 now what's happening, I think, with

287
00:08:32,291 --> 00:08:33,291
 people just taking

288
00:08:33,291 --> 00:08:34,458
 healthcare into their own hands.

289
00:08:35,500 --> 00:08:36,666
 Yeah, no, it is it is

290
00:08:36,666 --> 00:08:37,791
 definitely the way forwards.

291
00:08:38,041 --> 00:08:40,583
 And I think there's definite, I mean, a

292
00:08:40,583 --> 00:08:42,125
 little knowledge for the average person

293
00:08:42,125 --> 00:08:43,708
 and little knowledge can definitely be a

294
00:08:43,708 --> 00:08:45,250
 dangerous thing, that's sort of the whole

295
00:08:45,250 --> 00:08:47,125
 idea of the Dunning Kruger effect.

296
00:08:48,083 --> 00:08:53,083
 But yeah, I do think that it yeah, as you

297
00:08:53,083 --> 00:08:54,958
 said, it is ultimately the way forwards

298
00:08:54,958 --> 00:08:56,916
 and getting people to take ultimately

299
00:08:56,916 --> 00:08:58,458
 responsibility for their own health and

300
00:08:58,458 --> 00:09:00,791
 then to be to be more educated when

301
00:09:00,791 --> 00:09:02,166
 speaking to someone such as yourself

302
00:09:02,166 --> 00:09:04,000
 probably is at least

303
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,166
 establishes sort of a baseline.

304
00:09:06,875 --> 00:09:07,708
 In any case,

305
00:09:08,708 --> 00:09:10,708
 before we go on a complete tangent, I

306
00:09:10,708 --> 00:09:13,166
 suppose you might as well get back to the

307
00:09:13,291 --> 00:09:14,000
 longevity and

308
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,000
 regenerative side of things.

309
00:09:15,375 --> 00:09:18,416
 But anyway, so obviously,

310
00:09:20,708 --> 00:09:22,041
 longevity is a major is a

311
00:09:22,041 --> 00:09:22,791
 major thing at the moment.

312
00:09:23,875 --> 00:09:25,333
 Everybody's talking about longevity,

313
00:09:25,625 --> 00:09:26,541
 everyone's talking about

314
00:09:26,541 --> 00:09:27,875
 increasing their health span, etc.

315
00:09:28,166 --> 00:09:31,041
 And I'm of course, it's something I'm

316
00:09:31,041 --> 00:09:32,375
 interested in, but more so from the

317
00:09:32,375 --> 00:09:34,208
 perspective of say, modulating the immune

318
00:09:34,208 --> 00:09:36,333
 system in the inflammatory response and

319
00:09:36,333 --> 00:09:37,625
 improving cell energetics.

320
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,583
 And then definitely restoring and

321
00:09:43,666 --> 00:09:45,458
 maintaining hormonal function.

322
00:09:45,916 --> 00:09:48,458
 Maybe more so than I am looking at a

323
00:09:48,458 --> 00:09:51,875
 single mechanism, or a single sort of

324
00:09:51,875 --> 00:09:53,208
 molecular target that

325
00:09:53,208 --> 00:09:54,625
 would extend lifespan.

326
00:09:55,458 --> 00:09:56,916
 Maybe it's because I'm not a geneticist

327
00:09:56,916 --> 00:09:59,208
 or speak, I will speak some very bright,

328
00:09:59,416 --> 00:10:03,333
 but I tend to try and focus on the big

329
00:10:03,333 --> 00:10:04,833
 picture rather than the minutia.

330
00:10:05,375 --> 00:10:07,625
 Now you're obviously in the trenches with

331
00:10:07,625 --> 00:10:09,791
 work you do with regards to sort of

332
00:10:09,791 --> 00:10:12,083
 helping the patients that you have who

333
00:10:12,083 --> 00:10:12,833
 are looking to sort of

334
00:10:12,833 --> 00:10:13,791
 improve their longevity.

335
00:10:14,666 --> 00:10:18,333
 How do you define longevity?

336
00:10:18,916 --> 00:10:20,750
 And then what do you find the biggest

337
00:10:20,750 --> 00:10:22,791
 needle movers are in that respect?

338
00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:24,125
 Yeah, I mean, I think

339
00:10:24,125 --> 00:10:25,500
 you kind of hit on them.

340
00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:28,500
 But my definition of longevity really is

341
00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:30,333
 just being able to live your highest

342
00:10:30,333 --> 00:10:32,333
 quality of life for as long as possible,

343
00:10:32,958 --> 00:10:33,833
 which is very simple.

344
00:10:34,125 --> 00:10:35,916
 But at the end of the day, what happens,

345
00:10:36,625 --> 00:10:39,666
 and this is a real statistic over 90% of

346
00:10:39,666 --> 00:10:41,041
 people over age 60 in

347
00:10:41,041 --> 00:10:42,583
 America have a chronic disease.

348
00:10:43,375 --> 00:10:45,500
 So meaning their quality of life gets

349
00:10:45,500 --> 00:10:47,208
 affected, and they can't do the things

350
00:10:47,208 --> 00:10:48,333
 that they want to because of their

351
00:10:48,333 --> 00:10:50,458
 illnesses or diseases or pain or fatigue

352
00:10:50,458 --> 00:10:51,833
 or whatever, maybe mood, depression,

353
00:10:52,291 --> 00:10:52,791
 there's so many things

354
00:10:52,791 --> 00:10:54,000
 that happen as you get older.

355
00:10:54,583 --> 00:10:56,791
 And if you can maintain a high quality of

356
00:10:56,791 --> 00:10:58,916
 life for that, as you get in, especially

357
00:10:58,916 --> 00:11:00,250
 as you get older, that's really what

358
00:11:00,250 --> 00:11:01,375
 longevity is, right?

359
00:11:01,416 --> 00:11:02,291
 Being able to live to

360
00:11:02,291 --> 00:11:03,208
 your fullest, so to speak.

361
00:11:03,208 --> 00:11:04,916
 And that's, that's, that was the whole

362
00:11:04,916 --> 00:11:06,750
 thing with my original kind of, let's

363
00:11:06,750 --> 00:11:08,208
 say, profession, which was giving getting

364
00:11:08,208 --> 00:11:10,541
 people out of chronic pain, because pain

365
00:11:10,541 --> 00:11:13,541
 affects people's life a lot, not just

366
00:11:13,541 --> 00:11:16,375
 from a purely mental health perspective,

367
00:11:16,375 --> 00:11:18,291
 but it can affect their ability to stay

368
00:11:18,291 --> 00:11:20,750
 active, which ultimately then affects

369
00:11:20,750 --> 00:11:22,250
 their whole health, right?

370
00:11:22,250 --> 00:11:23,916
 So because if you're in too much pain,

371
00:11:23,958 --> 00:11:25,750
 and you can't stay active, then your

372
00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:27,333
 whole body becomes the condition, right?

373
00:11:27,333 --> 00:11:28,708
 So that's, that was one of the big things

374
00:11:28,708 --> 00:11:29,541
 I realized is that

375
00:11:29,541 --> 00:11:30,333
 it's all interconnected.

376
00:11:30,750 --> 00:11:32,583
 So you can't just, and that's why you

377
00:11:32,583 --> 00:11:34,041
 have to look at the body as a whole.

378
00:11:34,041 --> 00:11:36,833
 And so when you're coming to the point of

379
00:11:36,833 --> 00:11:39,333
 what moves the needle the most, you kind

380
00:11:39,333 --> 00:11:40,791
 of hit them both, which is hormones and

381
00:11:40,791 --> 00:11:43,458
 immune, immune system, and the immune

382
00:11:43,458 --> 00:11:46,958
 system, the reason immune system is so, I

383
00:11:46,958 --> 00:11:47,708
 mean, immunology is

384
00:11:47,708 --> 00:11:48,708
 such an interesting topic.

385
00:11:48,708 --> 00:11:50,041
 And there's so much, there's so much

386
00:11:50,041 --> 00:11:51,125
 stuff going on in right now.

387
00:11:51,125 --> 00:11:53,791
 And I'm, I spend most of my extra spare

388
00:11:53,791 --> 00:11:55,375
 time reading about immunology these days,

389
00:11:55,375 --> 00:11:57,791
 because it's just, that's the hot topic

390
00:11:57,791 --> 00:11:58,875
 right now in medicine, I think.

391
00:11:59,458 --> 00:12:01,333
 And the reason is because it turns out

392
00:12:01,333 --> 00:12:03,000
 the immune system modulates or controls

393
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,500
 all these other cells, meaning they

394
00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:06,291
 dictate, if the, if your immune cells

395
00:12:06,291 --> 00:12:07,625
 send the right signal, you're going to

396
00:12:07,625 --> 00:12:09,416
 have good regeneration and good healing,

397
00:12:09,416 --> 00:12:11,083
 for example, versus if they send the

398
00:12:11,083 --> 00:12:12,083
 wrong signals, and you're going to have

399
00:12:12,083 --> 00:12:13,083
 scarring and fibrosis.

400
00:12:13,791 --> 00:12:15,125
 So your immune cells, that's just one

401
00:12:15,125 --> 00:12:17,083
 example of, but it turns out even with

402
00:12:17,125 --> 00:12:19,625
 even cardiovascular disease, there's an

403
00:12:19,625 --> 00:12:20,833
 inflammatory component with

404
00:12:20,833 --> 00:12:21,916
 plaques and heart disease.

405
00:12:22,250 --> 00:12:23,375
 And, and like we talked about

406
00:12:23,375 --> 00:12:25,000
 Alzheimer's, neuroinflammation, and so

407
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:26,000
 many different things come

408
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,083
 back to the immune system.

409
00:12:27,083 --> 00:12:29,375
 So if we can keep your immune health

410
00:12:29,375 --> 00:12:32,541
 better in terms of slowing down the aging

411
00:12:32,541 --> 00:12:34,083
 process, and that's going to have a huge

412
00:12:34,083 --> 00:12:34,958
 impact on your aging.

413
00:12:34,958 --> 00:12:36,625
 And that's not just me saying it again,

414
00:12:36,625 --> 00:12:38,083
 there's, there's data to back this up.

415
00:12:38,083 --> 00:12:40,166
 There's a study in Stanford, which is

416
00:12:40,166 --> 00:12:40,958
 really interesting, is

417
00:12:40,958 --> 00:12:42,375
 a 17 year long study.

418
00:12:42,375 --> 00:12:43,916
 So they looked at seven, like, so almost

419
00:12:43,958 --> 00:12:46,166
 two decades, and they track people's

420
00:12:46,166 --> 00:12:47,125
 immune system health.

421
00:12:47,125 --> 00:12:48,833
 And they found that the immune system

422
00:12:48,833 --> 00:12:50,750
 metric that they were using out predicted

423
00:12:50,750 --> 00:12:53,791
 their out predicted epigenetic clocks for

424
00:12:53,791 --> 00:12:55,083
 predicting mortality or death.

425
00:12:55,333 --> 00:12:57,708
 So by up to seven years, so they could

426
00:12:57,708 --> 00:13:00,000
 predict more accurately by seven years

427
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,416
 more than those epigenetic clocks on, you

428
00:13:02,416 --> 00:13:03,666
 know, how long someone's going to live,

429
00:13:03,666 --> 00:13:04,458
 which is super interesting.

430
00:13:05,041 --> 00:13:07,125
 So what that comes back to is if we can

431
00:13:07,125 --> 00:13:09,166
 slow down your immune system aging, we

432
00:13:09,166 --> 00:13:10,541
 can likely help you live a healthier,

433
00:13:10,541 --> 00:13:12,291
 longer life and, and also

434
00:13:12,291 --> 00:13:13,250
 prevent chronic diseases.

435
00:13:13,875 --> 00:13:15,041
 And that's, and that's why people have

436
00:13:15,041 --> 00:13:16,916
 heard of this whole inflammation concept,

437
00:13:16,916 --> 00:13:18,166
 right, chronic inflammation being one of

438
00:13:18,166 --> 00:13:18,791
 the biggest drivers.

439
00:13:19,333 --> 00:13:21,125
 But so let's come back to why does your

440
00:13:21,125 --> 00:13:21,666
 immune system get

441
00:13:21,666 --> 00:13:22,666
 older in the first place.

442
00:13:23,166 --> 00:13:24,708
 And a lot of this has to do with your

443
00:13:24,708 --> 00:13:26,666
 bone marrow micro environment, because

444
00:13:26,666 --> 00:13:28,291
 that's where the cells are made, right,

445
00:13:28,291 --> 00:13:29,416
 the bone marrow micro environment is

446
00:13:29,416 --> 00:13:30,875
 where the stem cells get made, and rest

447
00:13:30,875 --> 00:13:32,458
 where your immune cells get made, too.

448
00:13:32,875 --> 00:13:34,125
 And so what happens is there's something

449
00:13:34,125 --> 00:13:37,208
 called a hematopoietic shift, which means

450
00:13:37,208 --> 00:13:39,416
 that more of the, let's say, bad immune

451
00:13:39,416 --> 00:13:41,125
 cells are being made, and less of the

452
00:13:41,125 --> 00:13:41,791
 good immune cells are

453
00:13:41,791 --> 00:13:42,916
 being made as you get older.

454
00:13:43,583 --> 00:13:44,750
 And so there's a, there's a

455
00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:46,000
 shift that happens with aging.

456
00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:48,375
 And so, and then the other thing is your

457
00:13:48,375 --> 00:13:50,833
 thymus gland, which is starts to shrink.

458
00:13:51,125 --> 00:13:51,750
 Yeah, exactly.

459
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:52,625
 It starts to shrink, and

460
00:13:52,625 --> 00:13:53,708
 that trains your T cells.

461
00:13:54,375 --> 00:13:55,541
 And that that also doesn't

462
00:13:55,541 --> 00:13:56,750
 work as well as you get older.

463
00:13:56,750 --> 00:13:58,166
 So the bone marrow and the thymus gland

464
00:13:58,166 --> 00:14:00,583
 are two hot areas of research right now,

465
00:14:00,583 --> 00:14:02,416
 because if we can do thymus regeneration,

466
00:14:03,041 --> 00:14:04,375
 and then if we can keep the bone marrow

467
00:14:04,375 --> 00:14:06,083
 micro environment healthy, so that you

468
00:14:06,083 --> 00:14:07,791
 can continue to produce a good immune

469
00:14:07,791 --> 00:14:09,708
 cells, you can significantly slow down

470
00:14:09,708 --> 00:14:12,041
 the aging process, and potentially even

471
00:14:12,083 --> 00:14:13,125
 reverse aging, I think.

472
00:14:13,125 --> 00:14:14,250
 So that's why there's because there's a

473
00:14:14,250 --> 00:14:16,375
 research study that was done in mice, but

474
00:14:16,375 --> 00:14:18,166
 it's super interesting, where they were

475
00:14:18,166 --> 00:14:21,083
 able to use these engineered stem cells

476
00:14:21,083 --> 00:14:23,541
 are called IPSC HSCs.

477
00:14:23,541 --> 00:14:25,541
 So they're basically, you know, the

478
00:14:25,541 --> 00:14:27,166
 Yamanaka stem cells with hematopoietic

479
00:14:27,166 --> 00:14:28,625
 stem cells that were able to reprogram

480
00:14:28,625 --> 00:14:30,833
 the bone marrow micro environment, and

481
00:14:30,833 --> 00:14:32,041
 significantly slow down

482
00:14:32,041 --> 00:14:33,291
 the aging process in mice.

483
00:14:34,083 --> 00:14:35,083
 So that just that's just

484
00:14:35,083 --> 00:14:36,458
 a very interesting study.

485
00:14:36,458 --> 00:14:39,416
 But I think the real world application at

486
00:14:39,416 --> 00:14:41,750
 the moment is we do have therapies that

487
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:43,250
 can slow down the immune system aging

488
00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:44,500
 process, such as immune cells.

489
00:14:45,333 --> 00:14:47,250
 But obviously, I think the I think, you

490
00:14:47,250 --> 00:14:49,791
 know, the, the regeneration or repair of

491
00:14:49,791 --> 00:14:51,291
 those micro environments and that tissue

492
00:14:51,291 --> 00:14:53,250
 in the thymus is going to be a really

493
00:14:53,250 --> 00:14:54,625
 interesting area for longevity.

494
00:14:55,041 --> 00:14:57,000
 Yeah, no, it's fascinating, especially

495
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,375
 when you start looking at some of these,

496
00:14:59,375 --> 00:15:00,166
 I don't know what you think of

497
00:15:00,166 --> 00:15:02,666
 bioregulators that are supposedly have

498
00:15:02,666 --> 00:15:04,833
 been shown to help regenerate the thymus.

499
00:15:05,791 --> 00:15:07,166
 Specifically on the immune system,

500
00:15:07,166 --> 00:15:10,208
 though, what do you feel about this idea

501
00:15:10,208 --> 00:15:12,583
 of the fact that the immune system is

502
00:15:12,583 --> 00:15:14,458
 going to for the most part is going to be

503
00:15:14,458 --> 00:15:16,750
 triggered by a huge number of

504
00:15:16,750 --> 00:15:19,333
 environmental factors, anything from

505
00:15:19,333 --> 00:15:21,791
 mold, microplastics, etc, that are then

506
00:15:21,791 --> 00:15:23,291
 sort of going to drive up this

507
00:15:23,291 --> 00:15:26,416
 inflammatory response that was then going

508
00:15:26,416 --> 00:15:28,916
 to result in the development of the

509
00:15:28,916 --> 00:15:30,041
 inflammation specifically.

510
00:15:31,291 --> 00:15:34,083
 Do you think that I suppose part of the

511
00:15:34,083 --> 00:15:36,208
 picture here is looking at ways to sort

512
00:15:36,208 --> 00:15:39,333
 of reduce that that load on the body so

513
00:15:39,333 --> 00:15:41,375
 as to reduce the 100%

514
00:15:41,750 --> 00:15:44,166
 in fact, there was a study the research

515
00:15:44,166 --> 00:15:45,500
 on if you look at the research on

516
00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:47,083
 multiple sclerosis, which is an

517
00:15:47,083 --> 00:15:49,375
 autoimmune condition, it's almost it's

518
00:15:49,375 --> 00:15:51,541
 every like they found like something like

519
00:15:51,541 --> 00:15:53,250
 I can't remember the exact number, but

520
00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:55,000
 it's really high, like 95% or something

521
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,208
 was linked to EBP, like so almost

522
00:15:57,208 --> 00:16:00,000
 everyone who has MS has EBP, which what

523
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,208
 does that show you that shows you that's

524
00:16:01,208 --> 00:16:03,750
 probably the actual cause of MS, you

525
00:16:03,750 --> 00:16:05,916
 know, that's like like like likely the

526
00:16:05,916 --> 00:16:07,958
 causative or most important risk factor.

527
00:16:08,416 --> 00:16:11,375
 And so chronic infections and chronic

528
00:16:11,375 --> 00:16:13,916
 toxins in the body, microplastics,

529
00:16:13,916 --> 00:16:15,958
 pesticides, all these things play a role

530
00:16:15,958 --> 00:16:17,666
 in kind of hijacking our immune system

531
00:16:17,666 --> 00:16:20,125
 and making it in balance or dysregulated.

532
00:16:20,875 --> 00:16:22,708
 So that's why we know this.

533
00:16:22,708 --> 00:16:23,916
 I mean, the medicines know this for a

534
00:16:23,916 --> 00:16:24,333
 while too, as they

535
00:16:24,333 --> 00:16:25,833
 call it molecular mimicry.

536
00:16:26,208 --> 00:16:26,625
 That's kind of like

537
00:16:26,625 --> 00:16:27,541
 the medical term, right?

538
00:16:27,708 --> 00:16:29,125
 And so essentially, just meaning like

539
00:16:29,125 --> 00:16:31,666
 these toxins are kind of making your body

540
00:16:31,666 --> 00:16:34,000
 think that the tissue that's healthy is

541
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,250
 actually unhealthy, and

542
00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:36,250
 then they start attacking it.

543
00:16:36,875 --> 00:16:39,083
 And so why is that tissue presenting as

544
00:16:39,083 --> 00:16:41,041
 an unhealthy tissue in the first place is

545
00:16:41,041 --> 00:16:42,791
 because there's intracellular pathogens

546
00:16:42,791 --> 00:16:44,208
 inside of that tissue, or there's

547
00:16:44,208 --> 00:16:45,916
 microplastics, or there's all this

548
00:16:45,916 --> 00:16:46,833
 garbage that's

549
00:16:46,833 --> 00:16:48,166
 building up inside the cell.

550
00:16:48,166 --> 00:16:48,791
 And then your immune

551
00:16:48,791 --> 00:16:50,041
 system's like, hey, what the heck?

552
00:16:50,041 --> 00:16:50,708
 What's wrong with you?

553
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,291
 And then it starts attacking it.

554
00:16:52,666 --> 00:16:55,583
 And so then the doctors are just

555
00:16:55,583 --> 00:16:56,916
 suppressing the immune system.

556
00:16:56,916 --> 00:16:58,208
 They're not going- Biologics.

557
00:16:58,541 --> 00:17:00,083
 Yeah, which is biologics or

558
00:17:00,083 --> 00:17:02,500
 immunosuppressants or f-prednisone or

559
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:03,375
 monoclonal antibodies.

560
00:17:03,833 --> 00:17:05,166
 They're not really

561
00:17:05,166 --> 00:17:06,750
 fixing the problem, right?

562
00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:07,166
 Which is fine.

563
00:17:07,416 --> 00:17:09,083
 We didn't really understand all the

564
00:17:09,083 --> 00:17:10,458
 science before, but I think now it's

565
00:17:10,458 --> 00:17:11,458
 becoming much more clearer.

566
00:17:12,125 --> 00:17:14,708
 And so what we do is we

567
00:17:14,708 --> 00:17:16,083
 try to remove the bad.

568
00:17:16,875 --> 00:17:18,041
 And there's all these technologies out

569
00:17:18,041 --> 00:17:19,500
 there that can do that pretty effectively

570
00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:21,791
 now with, there's something called in-use

571
00:17:21,791 --> 00:17:23,541
 phoresis, which is in Europe.

572
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,083
 It's been around for a while and they've

573
00:17:25,083 --> 00:17:26,500
 had, they have data showing, they've

574
00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:28,291
 helped autoimmune patients and they can

575
00:17:28,291 --> 00:17:29,083
 remove microplastics

576
00:17:29,083 --> 00:17:29,791
 and all these things.

577
00:17:29,791 --> 00:17:31,833
 And you can combine that with other

578
00:17:31,833 --> 00:17:33,250
 therapies to kind of

579
00:17:33,250 --> 00:17:34,333
 reset the immune system.

580
00:17:34,958 --> 00:17:35,875
 So that's the whole idea.

581
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:37,208
 Yeah.

582
00:17:37,333 --> 00:17:38,333
 And where do stem cells

583
00:17:38,333 --> 00:17:39,708
 start to fit in this picture?

584
00:17:39,708 --> 00:17:41,125
 I suppose you might, it's a good sort of

585
00:17:41,125 --> 00:17:42,791
 juncture to start talking about stem

586
00:17:42,791 --> 00:17:43,916
 cells in particular with

587
00:17:43,916 --> 00:17:45,041
 regards to immune system.

588
00:17:46,541 --> 00:17:48,500
 Of course, I think most people view stem

589
00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:50,708
 cells purely from the sort of tissue

590
00:17:50,708 --> 00:17:51,750
 regenerative standpoint.

591
00:17:52,125 --> 00:17:53,750
 I think that is what comes across in

592
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:55,333
 social media the most in any case.

593
00:17:56,166 --> 00:18:00,166
 You take stem cells, whether it's, yeah,

594
00:18:00,833 --> 00:18:02,583
 whatever form it is, whether it's an

595
00:18:02,583 --> 00:18:04,458
 autologous stem cell, such as, I believe

596
00:18:04,458 --> 00:18:06,041
 that's PRP, something like that, if I've

597
00:18:06,041 --> 00:18:08,083
 got that right, or some sorts of

598
00:18:08,083 --> 00:18:09,125
 harvested stem cell.

599
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,416
 And most people sort of associate that

600
00:18:12,416 --> 00:18:14,500
 again, whether you've got some sort of

601
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:16,708
 cartilage degeneration on your knee or

602
00:18:16,708 --> 00:18:17,958
 some sort of aesthetic procedure.

603
00:18:19,250 --> 00:18:22,041
 But how are you utilizing these therapies

604
00:18:22,041 --> 00:18:24,333
 in these cells to then sort of modulate

605
00:18:24,333 --> 00:18:26,583
 the immune response in particular?

606
00:18:27,625 --> 00:18:27,833
 Yeah.

607
00:18:27,875 --> 00:18:31,041
 So the first problem is, I always have to

608
00:18:31,041 --> 00:18:32,083
 get a little bit of a history lesson,

609
00:18:32,458 --> 00:18:35,041
 unfortunately, because the first problem

610
00:18:35,041 --> 00:18:36,791
 is the word stem cells,

611
00:18:37,458 --> 00:18:38,541
 mesenchymal stem cells.

612
00:18:38,541 --> 00:18:40,125
 And mesenchymal is kind of like an

613
00:18:40,125 --> 00:18:42,083
 embryological term that all these stem

614
00:18:42,083 --> 00:18:43,833
 cell clinics that are out there, they're

615
00:18:43,833 --> 00:18:44,958
 using what are called mesenchymal stem

616
00:18:44,958 --> 00:18:46,500
 cells, which are either derived from fat,

617
00:18:47,083 --> 00:18:48,750
 bone marrow, or umbilical

618
00:18:48,750 --> 00:18:50,166
 cord tissue or placenta tissue.

619
00:18:50,166 --> 00:18:52,125
 Those are perinatal tissue, those are

620
00:18:52,125 --> 00:18:53,500
 typically the three most common sources.

621
00:18:54,166 --> 00:18:56,333
 And so the problem is the guy who coined

622
00:18:56,333 --> 00:18:59,916
 that term in 1992 wrote a paper in 2017

623
00:18:59,916 --> 00:19:02,250
 saying that we need to rename it to

624
00:19:02,250 --> 00:19:03,750
 medicinal signaling cells.

625
00:19:04,416 --> 00:19:05,125
 His name is Dr.

626
00:19:05,125 --> 00:19:05,500
 Arnold Kaplan.

627
00:19:05,791 --> 00:19:08,083
 And so essentially he was saying that he

628
00:19:08,083 --> 00:19:09,875
 named them wrongly because

629
00:19:09,875 --> 00:19:11,333
 they are not true stem cells.

630
00:19:11,333 --> 00:19:12,791
 They're just not able to regenerate

631
00:19:12,791 --> 00:19:13,875
 tissue, like you were saying.

632
00:19:14,333 --> 00:19:15,583
 What they do is they do something called

633
00:19:15,583 --> 00:19:17,791
 paracrine signaling, which is a signal

634
00:19:17,791 --> 00:19:19,291
 and they modulate their environment,

635
00:19:19,291 --> 00:19:20,791
 which can still reduce inflammation and

636
00:19:20,791 --> 00:19:22,750
 still be helpful, but it's not true

637
00:19:22,750 --> 00:19:25,000
 regenerative, which is what people are

638
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,125
 looking for and what people are hoping

639
00:19:26,125 --> 00:19:27,166
 for with these treatments.

640
00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:28,583
 And that was a problem with all these

641
00:19:28,583 --> 00:19:30,500
 stem cell clinics and why most of these

642
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:31,500
 stem cell clinics, to be

643
00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:33,041
 honest, are scam in a sense.

644
00:19:33,375 --> 00:19:33,875
 And a lot of them are

645
00:19:33,875 --> 00:19:34,833
 just marketing and hype.

646
00:19:34,833 --> 00:19:35,666
 And there's just a lot of

647
00:19:35,666 --> 00:19:36,666
 misinformation out there.

648
00:19:36,666 --> 00:19:38,416
 And that's also why a lot of mainstream

649
00:19:38,416 --> 00:19:40,791
 doctors don't like it because it's like

650
00:19:40,791 --> 00:19:42,500
 these clinics are offering these things

651
00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:43,750
 which aren't true stem cells.

652
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:46,541
 And that's still a problem because all

653
00:19:46,541 --> 00:19:48,000
 these clinics are saying we do stem cell

654
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,208
 injections, but they're not

655
00:19:49,208 --> 00:19:50,166
 doing stem cell injections.

656
00:19:50,416 --> 00:19:51,416
 They're doing signaling molecule

657
00:19:51,416 --> 00:19:53,208
 injections or what are, or the other,

658
00:19:53,208 --> 00:19:54,625
 other technical name is what's called a

659
00:19:54,625 --> 00:19:56,958
 committed progenitor cell, which means

660
00:19:56,958 --> 00:19:57,541
 it's already committed

661
00:19:57,541 --> 00:19:58,750
 to a certain cell lineage.

662
00:19:58,750 --> 00:20:00,333
 It's not able to differentiate into all

663
00:20:00,333 --> 00:20:01,458
 the different types of cell types.

664
00:20:02,083 --> 00:20:03,500
 So what is a true stem cell?

665
00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:04,583
 A true stem cell, it can

666
00:20:04,583 --> 00:20:06,333
 turn into any cell in the body.

667
00:20:06,333 --> 00:20:08,000
 What's called a pluripotent stem cell.

668
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:10,541
 And so that's, that's, but the issue with

669
00:20:10,541 --> 00:20:12,291
 pluripotent stem cells has historically

670
00:20:12,291 --> 00:20:14,125
 has been the risk of tumors or cancer

671
00:20:14,125 --> 00:20:15,250
 because they could not

672
00:20:15,250 --> 00:20:16,708
 turn into tumors as well.

673
00:20:16,708 --> 00:20:16,916
 Right.

674
00:20:17,166 --> 00:20:19,000
 And that, that's the kind of the big

675
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,208
 breakthrough with these new cells, which

676
00:20:21,208 --> 00:20:23,416
 is what we're using because they're

677
00:20:23,416 --> 00:20:25,458
 pluripotent, meaning they can turn into

678
00:20:25,458 --> 00:20:26,791
 any cell in the body, but

679
00:20:26,791 --> 00:20:27,750
 they're non-tumorogenic.

680
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,666
 So they have the best of both worlds.

681
00:20:29,666 --> 00:20:31,458
 So they can not only differentiate into

682
00:20:31,458 --> 00:20:33,291
 cartilage or heart or liver.

683
00:20:33,583 --> 00:20:35,125
 They've been shown to generate into new

684
00:20:35,125 --> 00:20:36,083
 bone, like new brain

685
00:20:36,083 --> 00:20:37,500
 tissue to like neural neurons.

686
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:38,958
 So they can turn into anything you need

687
00:20:38,958 --> 00:20:40,750
 them to, but there's no risk of cancer.

688
00:20:41,083 --> 00:20:42,250
 And in fact, there's research suggests

689
00:20:42,250 --> 00:20:42,875
 that they may even

690
00:20:42,875 --> 00:20:43,791
 suppress cancer growth.

691
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,208
 So it's really, really promising in terms

692
00:20:46,208 --> 00:20:48,208
 of their future of, for so

693
00:20:48,208 --> 00:20:49,083
 many different applications.

694
00:20:49,416 --> 00:20:51,041
 But to come back to your question, what

695
00:20:51,041 --> 00:20:53,250
 the immune cells do more than anything is

696
00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:54,833
 they help modulate your immune system.

697
00:20:55,333 --> 00:20:57,875
 And this has been shown in, in clinical

698
00:20:57,875 --> 00:21:00,791
 clinical research, but also with some of

699
00:21:00,791 --> 00:21:02,500
 the evidence that we published, we just

700
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:03,666
 published some, we

701
00:21:03,666 --> 00:21:04,500
 just published a paper.

702
00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:06,375
 I mean, it's just a few cases, but we

703
00:21:06,375 --> 00:21:08,208
 used, you know, we use this generation

704
00:21:08,208 --> 00:21:10,166
 lab, which is like systems biology aging

705
00:21:10,166 --> 00:21:12,208
 test, and essentially measures 19

706
00:21:12,208 --> 00:21:13,250
 different organ systems.

707
00:21:13,541 --> 00:21:15,333
 And we're able to show like, with just

708
00:21:15,333 --> 00:21:17,333
 one or two infusions of the immune cells,

709
00:21:17,333 --> 00:21:19,875
 you can see like 10, up to 10 years of

710
00:21:19,875 --> 00:21:20,916
 reversal of biological

711
00:21:20,916 --> 00:21:22,125
 age in the immune system.

712
00:21:22,875 --> 00:21:23,500
 And then you can see

713
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:24,916
 significant slowing down of that.

714
00:21:24,916 --> 00:21:25,875
 And then you see the inflammatory

715
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,916
 response completely become blunted.

716
00:21:28,541 --> 00:21:30,583
 So there's a shift that happens after the

717
00:21:30,583 --> 00:21:31,041
 immune cells, which

718
00:21:31,041 --> 00:21:31,833
 is really interesting.

719
00:21:31,833 --> 00:21:34,625
 And the whole idea is that we combine it

720
00:21:34,625 --> 00:21:36,583
 with that blood cleaning technology.

721
00:21:36,583 --> 00:21:38,000
 So for, let's say someone who has an

722
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,625
 autoimmune condition or dealing with

723
00:21:39,625 --> 00:21:41,583
 chronic infections, you know, whether

724
00:21:41,583 --> 00:21:43,583
 that's mold or lime or whatever, then one

725
00:21:43,583 --> 00:21:44,916
 of the things you can do is you can

726
00:21:44,916 --> 00:21:46,791
 remove all the bad stuff using that

727
00:21:46,791 --> 00:21:49,000
 technology, like the endocerases, and

728
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,625
 then you can put in the new cells.

729
00:21:50,625 --> 00:21:52,166
 So it's like you're, you're preparing the

730
00:21:52,166 --> 00:21:53,458
 soil before you plant the seeds.

731
00:21:53,916 --> 00:21:55,625
 And then you can also you can, of course,

732
00:21:55,625 --> 00:21:57,375
 we touch on hormones a little bit, you

733
00:21:57,375 --> 00:22:00,000
 can also optimize our hormones using, you

734
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,500
 know, functional genomics and blood work

735
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:02,916
 and all that stuff to really look at

736
00:22:02,916 --> 00:22:04,750
 their hormone metabolism, and then figure

737
00:22:04,750 --> 00:22:05,583
 out and make an

738
00:22:05,583 --> 00:22:06,833
 individualized plan for them.

739
00:22:07,208 --> 00:22:08,208
 So that way, you're kind of like

740
00:22:08,208 --> 00:22:09,458
 optimizing the hormones, you're

741
00:22:09,458 --> 00:22:10,500
 optimizing their body

742
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:11,958
 before you put in these cells.

743
00:22:12,416 --> 00:22:13,083
 And that's really what

744
00:22:13,083 --> 00:22:14,000
 leads to good results.

745
00:22:14,541 --> 00:22:15,041
 Yeah, definitely.

746
00:22:15,041 --> 00:22:15,666
 And I'd love to come

747
00:22:15,666 --> 00:22:16,583
 back to homes in a moment.

748
00:22:17,083 --> 00:22:19,666
 Mechanistically, what is going on, I

749
00:22:19,666 --> 00:22:21,916
 suppose, at this, at the level of the

750
00:22:21,916 --> 00:22:23,125
 immune system, when you're introducing

751
00:22:23,125 --> 00:22:24,916
 these stem cells, is there sort of an

752
00:22:24,916 --> 00:22:26,750
 increase in natural killer cell activity?

753
00:22:27,333 --> 00:22:30,458
 No, it's actually a Treg and TH17.

754
00:22:30,458 --> 00:22:32,166
 It's increasing the balance of that.

755
00:22:32,833 --> 00:22:33,833
 And then so basically

756
00:22:33,833 --> 00:22:35,208
 more T regulatory cells.

757
00:22:35,708 --> 00:22:38,041
 And then the other thing is it's

758
00:22:38,041 --> 00:22:39,375
 increasing macro, what's called

759
00:22:39,375 --> 00:22:40,416
 macrophage polarization.

760
00:22:40,916 --> 00:22:42,125
 So shifting the macrophage.

761
00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:43,125
 And one to two.

762
00:22:43,125 --> 00:22:43,666
 Yeah, exactly.

763
00:22:43,666 --> 00:22:43,958
 Yeah.

764
00:22:44,291 --> 00:22:45,625
 So those are two of the biggest ones.

765
00:22:45,625 --> 00:22:47,250
 But then there's also the other thing is,

766
00:22:47,250 --> 00:22:49,666
 is helping with what's called SASP,

767
00:22:49,958 --> 00:22:50,791
 senescence associated

768
00:22:50,791 --> 00:22:51,791
 secretinative phenotype.

769
00:22:52,375 --> 00:22:53,875
 So which is essentially one of the

770
00:22:53,875 --> 00:22:56,500
 hallmarks of aging, and it helps to

771
00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:58,791
 reprogram those cells to have a different

772
00:22:58,791 --> 00:23:00,791
 gene expression profile that's more anti

773
00:23:00,791 --> 00:23:02,500
 inflammatory, as opposed to the pro

774
00:23:02,625 --> 00:23:04,250
 inflammatory senescent profile.

775
00:23:04,666 --> 00:23:06,083
 And it actually clears out this is the

776
00:23:06,083 --> 00:23:07,041
 coolest thing about new cells.

777
00:23:07,541 --> 00:23:08,375
 New cells have what's

778
00:23:08,375 --> 00:23:09,375
 called phagocytosis.

779
00:23:09,833 --> 00:23:12,333
 So they actually eat the day so let's say

780
00:23:12,333 --> 00:23:13,833
 they go to your heart, and there's a

781
00:23:13,833 --> 00:23:15,291
 damage, there's damaged heart cells in

782
00:23:15,291 --> 00:23:17,333
 there that are senescent that are old and

783
00:23:17,333 --> 00:23:19,000
 your body can't clear them out, the new

784
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,041
 cells will actually eat them.

785
00:23:20,041 --> 00:23:21,750
 And then they'll use a cellular machinery

786
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:23,250
 to turn to a new heart cell that's

787
00:23:23,250 --> 00:23:25,125
 functionally better and works better.

788
00:23:25,916 --> 00:23:26,083
 Yeah.

789
00:23:26,250 --> 00:23:28,125
 And for the audience, that whole process

790
00:23:28,125 --> 00:23:30,458
 of phagocytosis forms into this what's

791
00:23:30,458 --> 00:23:32,666
 been sort of popularized as this idea of

792
00:23:32,666 --> 00:23:35,625
 autophagy upregulating the sort of the

793
00:23:35,625 --> 00:23:37,291
 cell recycling process

794
00:23:37,291 --> 00:23:39,250
 within a specific target tissue.

795
00:23:40,666 --> 00:23:42,250
 That's fascinating, especially the

796
00:23:42,250 --> 00:23:44,583
 ability for it to sort of help balance

797
00:23:44,583 --> 00:23:46,708
 out that TH17 response as well.

798
00:23:46,708 --> 00:23:48,750
 I mean, I know that's also mediated by

799
00:23:49,208 --> 00:23:50,708
 Holman specifically, which we can talk

800
00:23:50,708 --> 00:23:51,833
 about in a minute things

801
00:23:51,833 --> 00:23:53,583
 like excess of estrogen, etc.

802
00:23:55,666 --> 00:23:55,875
 Wow.

803
00:23:56,208 --> 00:23:58,791
 And then, yeah, I apologize to everyone

804
00:23:58,791 --> 00:24:00,333
 who's listening, I might get we might get

805
00:24:00,333 --> 00:24:01,166
 a little technical here.

806
00:24:01,791 --> 00:24:03,958
 What do you how are you then regulating

807
00:24:03,958 --> 00:24:06,000
 the SASP on the back end of that with

808
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,500
 regards to looking at compounds like your

809
00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:10,541
 your senolytics, everything from your

810
00:24:10,541 --> 00:24:13,958
 natural phi-setins to your pharmaceutical

811
00:24:13,958 --> 00:24:15,541
 candidates like dastinib.

812
00:24:15,541 --> 00:24:17,541
 Are you utilizing any of those compounds

813
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,333
 to then sort of clean up the sort of the

814
00:24:21,333 --> 00:24:22,541
 leftovers senescent cells?

815
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,208
 We use there's a couple there's a company

816
00:24:25,208 --> 00:24:26,250
 called qualia, which

817
00:24:26,250 --> 00:24:27,583
 makes a senolytic supplement.

818
00:24:27,583 --> 00:24:28,708
 So we've been using that one.

819
00:24:29,291 --> 00:24:30,583
 And I don't know if there's anything, you

820
00:24:30,583 --> 00:24:31,875
 know, I'm not I'm not a super expert as

821
00:24:31,875 --> 00:24:32,666
 you are on supplements.

822
00:24:32,666 --> 00:24:33,166
 So there might be

823
00:24:33,166 --> 00:24:33,958
 something better out there.

824
00:24:33,958 --> 00:24:35,125
 But that's the one I've been using.

825
00:24:35,583 --> 00:24:37,083
 And then the other other interesting

826
00:24:37,083 --> 00:24:38,791
 intervention from a cellular therapy

827
00:24:38,791 --> 00:24:40,166
 perspective are NK cells.

828
00:24:40,750 --> 00:24:42,875
 So allogeneic natural natural killer

829
00:24:42,875 --> 00:24:43,791
 cells act like a

830
00:24:43,791 --> 00:24:45,000
 sponge for senescent cells.

831
00:24:45,333 --> 00:24:47,041
 So that's another if you you know, for

832
00:24:47,041 --> 00:24:49,208
 for older people, especially, excuse me,

833
00:24:49,208 --> 00:24:51,041
 for older people, especially, you can do

834
00:24:51,041 --> 00:24:53,708
 NK cells prior to the mucal infusion,

835
00:24:53,708 --> 00:24:56,208
 because the NK cells help to reduce that

836
00:24:56,208 --> 00:24:58,208
 SASP microenvironment and help to clear

837
00:24:58,208 --> 00:24:59,458
 out some of the senescent cells before

838
00:24:59,458 --> 00:25:00,125
 you put in the mucal.

839
00:25:00,791 --> 00:25:01,541
 I did not know that.

840
00:25:01,833 --> 00:25:03,666
 I believe that IP6 phosphate just doesn't

841
00:25:03,666 --> 00:25:05,416
 offer you probably aware of this is also

842
00:25:05,416 --> 00:25:07,916
 going to increase in activity within this

843
00:25:07,916 --> 00:25:09,625
 within well within the

844
00:25:09,625 --> 00:25:10,375
 immune system as well.

845
00:25:11,291 --> 00:25:12,958
 That's anositol 6 phosphate.

846
00:25:13,375 --> 00:25:15,166
 So that's also an interesting one that's

847
00:25:15,166 --> 00:25:16,208
 been shown to increase.

848
00:25:16,666 --> 00:25:18,166
 I assume it do you mean natural killer

849
00:25:18,166 --> 00:25:19,083
 cell activity there?

850
00:25:19,833 --> 00:25:20,333
 Yeah, okay.

851
00:25:20,333 --> 00:25:21,875
 No, that's an that's one that's also got

852
00:25:21,875 --> 00:25:23,791
 shown to be quite

853
00:25:23,791 --> 00:25:24,958
 effective at helping to increase.

854
00:25:25,791 --> 00:25:27,083
 Yeah, NK cell activity.

855
00:25:27,708 --> 00:25:29,500
 In any case, I think we're getting a

856
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:30,333
 listen to the weeds here.

857
00:25:31,875 --> 00:25:32,250
 Dr.

858
00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:34,000
 Kahn, I'd love to maybe pivot and to talk

859
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,000
 about hormones a little

860
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:35,875
 bit now if that's okay.

861
00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:37,958
 Specifically, as they again, as they

862
00:25:37,958 --> 00:25:39,500
 pertain to these longevity outcomes.

863
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:40,000
 Now, like you,

864
00:25:41,083 --> 00:25:43,250
 I follow bodybuilding quite closely.

865
00:25:43,541 --> 00:25:45,291
 And, and to be honest, I think maybe

866
00:25:45,291 --> 00:25:47,500
 outside of individual societies yourself,

867
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:48,875
 and a lot of these sort of

868
00:25:48,875 --> 00:25:51,791
 institutionalized academics, their cohort

869
00:25:51,791 --> 00:25:54,125
 of individuals that definitely I find

870
00:25:54,125 --> 00:25:55,083
 fascinating because,

871
00:25:56,250 --> 00:25:57,166
 for the most part, I think they

872
00:25:57,166 --> 00:25:59,000
 understand human biology better than

873
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,083
 better than most, especially your sorts

874
00:26:01,083 --> 00:26:02,458
 of your newer guys,

875
00:26:02,458 --> 00:26:04,083
 like, like your Dean St.

876
00:26:04,083 --> 00:26:05,625
 Marty, your vigorous Steve's, etc.

877
00:26:06,125 --> 00:26:09,416
 I mean, they, it's in their best interest

878
00:26:10,083 --> 00:26:12,375
 to understand the human biology because

879
00:26:12,375 --> 00:26:13,500
 ultimately, that's the way

880
00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:14,875
 you get the body thereafter.

881
00:26:15,583 --> 00:26:19,000
 Now, I'm not saying that what these guys

882
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,791
 do is necessarily the

883
00:26:20,791 --> 00:26:22,625
 best for longevity outcomes.

884
00:26:22,625 --> 00:26:24,750
 I mean, yeah, yes, your tremolones, your

885
00:26:24,750 --> 00:26:26,916
 methylated testosterone are great for

886
00:26:26,916 --> 00:26:28,208
 throwing on slabs of tissue.

887
00:26:28,583 --> 00:26:30,583
 But from a systemic standpoint, they're

888
00:26:30,583 --> 00:26:30,958
 just going to

889
00:26:30,958 --> 00:26:32,291
 increase oxidative stress and

890
00:26:33,583 --> 00:26:36,083
 drive up androgenicity and create all

891
00:26:36,083 --> 00:26:37,375
 manner of health

892
00:26:37,375 --> 00:26:38,416
 issues related on the line.

893
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:42,916
 The proper use of HRT, however, I think

894
00:26:42,916 --> 00:26:44,958
 does interest me as longevity aid,

895
00:26:45,208 --> 00:26:47,416
 especially in the society we have today,

896
00:26:48,166 --> 00:26:51,166
 where people's levels of hormones for a

897
00:26:51,166 --> 00:26:52,416
 lot of the reasons we've already

898
00:26:52,416 --> 00:26:54,458
 discussed are just lower than ever.

899
00:26:54,833 --> 00:26:55,750
 Now, of course,

900
00:26:56,833 --> 00:26:58,416
 yeah, endocrine disruptors

901
00:26:58,416 --> 00:27:00,208
 lack of sleep, the list goes on.

902
00:27:00,541 --> 00:27:04,250
 And again, as you said earlier, these

903
00:27:04,250 --> 00:27:06,000
 environmental toxins, yeah,

904
00:27:06,083 --> 00:27:07,625
 two times, so your molds, etc.

905
00:27:08,875 --> 00:27:11,458
 Now, I'd love to discuss maybe some of

906
00:27:11,458 --> 00:27:16,083
 the nuances of HRT and both men and women

907
00:27:16,083 --> 00:27:17,250
 from a longevity perspective.

908
00:27:18,791 --> 00:27:20,500
 But why do you think, but before we get

909
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:22,875
 there, why do you think it's often

910
00:27:22,875 --> 00:27:24,375
 overlooked as a longevity

911
00:27:24,375 --> 00:27:26,125
 candidate or a longevity aid?

912
00:27:26,375 --> 00:27:27,500
 I mean, especially when you start looking

913
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:30,208
 at the ITP, most people are just again,

914
00:27:30,208 --> 00:27:32,708
 looking at these single molecules to try

915
00:27:32,708 --> 00:27:35,291
 and sort of, yeah, improve longevity

916
00:27:35,291 --> 00:27:36,791
 outcomes, improve health span, whether

917
00:27:36,791 --> 00:27:39,750
 it's astaxanthin, or the latest senolytic

918
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:41,875
 or whatever, but very few people are

919
00:27:41,875 --> 00:27:44,916
 seemingly, again, we've discussed this

920
00:27:44,916 --> 00:27:46,500
 already, the immune system, but focusing

921
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:48,541
 on the endocrine

922
00:27:48,541 --> 00:27:49,750
 system, the hormone system.

923
00:27:50,375 --> 00:27:51,208
 Do you have a feeling as

924
00:27:51,208 --> 00:27:52,833
 to why that is specifically?

925
00:27:53,916 --> 00:27:55,250
 Well, I think part of the problem is

926
00:27:55,291 --> 00:27:57,750
 there wasn't personalization and

927
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:59,083
 understanding how to

928
00:27:59,083 --> 00:28:00,666
 restore the whole access.

929
00:28:01,416 --> 00:28:03,291
 Like, for example, it's kind of, it was

930
00:28:03,291 --> 00:28:05,208
 very primitive, and it still is for a lot

931
00:28:05,208 --> 00:28:06,583
 of people, which is basically like, oh,

932
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,750
 you have low testosterone, so take some

933
00:28:08,750 --> 00:28:11,125
 testosterone, you have low estrogen, so

934
00:28:11,125 --> 00:28:13,208
 take some estrogen, but there, but again,

935
00:28:13,208 --> 00:28:14,833
 it's, it's kind of looking at the whole

936
00:28:14,833 --> 00:28:17,416
 body and asking yourself, okay, does this

937
00:28:17,416 --> 00:28:18,458
 make sense for this picture?

938
00:28:18,458 --> 00:28:20,208
 Or why is it low in the first place?

939
00:28:20,208 --> 00:28:21,625
 Or is there something we can do from a

940
00:28:21,625 --> 00:28:23,625
 systems biology approach to get your own

941
00:28:23,625 --> 00:28:25,000
 body to produce more of it?

942
00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:26,750
 And especially for a young, like you

943
00:28:26,750 --> 00:28:28,583
 said, younger and younger people are

944
00:28:28,583 --> 00:28:30,125
 presenting with low testosterone.

945
00:28:30,125 --> 00:28:32,500
 That's not normal, you know, and there's

946
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:34,666
 people in their 20s and 30s going on TRT.

947
00:28:35,250 --> 00:28:37,208
 And that, that, that to me is a bit of a

948
00:28:37,208 --> 00:28:38,833
 problem, because then you're not, you're

949
00:28:38,833 --> 00:28:40,416
 not going to the root cause necessarily,

950
00:28:40,416 --> 00:28:42,666
 which could be the adrenal access, and it

951
00:28:42,666 --> 00:28:44,125
 could be because of microplastics and the

952
00:28:44,125 --> 00:28:45,291
 endocrine, it could be so many different

953
00:28:45,291 --> 00:28:47,208
 things that you want to look at and see

954
00:28:47,208 --> 00:28:50,125
 if you can kind of restart or re jump the

955
00:28:50,125 --> 00:28:51,166
 system, so to speak.

956
00:28:51,166 --> 00:28:52,833
 And there's, and I think that's where

957
00:28:52,833 --> 00:28:53,458
 kind of functional

958
00:28:53,458 --> 00:28:54,791
 genomics was really interesting.

959
00:28:55,125 --> 00:28:56,708
 We have a doctor, Dr.

960
00:28:56,875 --> 00:28:57,666
 Mansoor Muhammad.

961
00:28:57,666 --> 00:28:59,541
 He's a, he's kind of like the guy who

962
00:28:59,541 --> 00:29:01,541
 pioneered, I would say he has, he's the

963
00:29:01,541 --> 00:29:02,750
 only one I know, as far as I know, that

964
00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:06,458
 has this insight into looking at your

965
00:29:06,458 --> 00:29:08,208
 specific genes that

966
00:29:08,208 --> 00:29:09,500
 affect hormone metabolism.

967
00:29:09,708 --> 00:29:11,000
 Because obviously when you do these

968
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,458
 genetic tests, like, you know, from these

969
00:29:13,458 --> 00:29:15,041
 DNA companies, they look at there's

970
00:29:15,041 --> 00:29:16,750
 thousands of genes and it's not very, it

971
00:29:16,750 --> 00:29:18,041
 just gives you a big report and it

972
00:29:18,041 --> 00:29:18,958
 doesn't really give you

973
00:29:18,958 --> 00:29:20,083
 a lot of good insight.

974
00:29:20,083 --> 00:29:20,625
 You know what I mean?

975
00:29:20,625 --> 00:29:21,250
 It's very generic.

976
00:29:21,833 --> 00:29:22,708
 Whereas Dr.

977
00:29:22,708 --> 00:29:25,125
 Mansoor, what he does is he says, no, I

978
00:29:25,125 --> 00:29:27,125
 figured out which genes to look at

979
00:29:27,125 --> 00:29:29,166
 specifically to optimize your health and

980
00:29:29,166 --> 00:29:32,333
 longevity and not just hormonal ones, but

981
00:29:32,333 --> 00:29:33,708
 then there's other important ones too,

982
00:29:33,708 --> 00:29:34,541
 obviously like methylation

983
00:29:34,541 --> 00:29:35,583
 and other things like that.

984
00:29:36,041 --> 00:29:37,791
 But so he does a very tailored approach.

985
00:29:38,250 --> 00:29:40,083
 And that's what we use personally to

986
00:29:40,083 --> 00:29:41,291
 optimize people's hormones.

987
00:29:41,291 --> 00:29:43,166
 Because then he can say, okay, look, your

988
00:29:43,166 --> 00:29:45,375
 estrogen metabolism or your progesterone

989
00:29:45,375 --> 00:29:47,375
 metabolism is faster than it should be.

990
00:29:47,625 --> 00:29:49,500
 And therefore, this is like a deficiency

991
00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:50,625
 that you're going to or you're going to

992
00:29:50,625 --> 00:29:52,500
 have, you know, because of that you have

993
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:53,666
 this X deficiency and this

994
00:29:53,666 --> 00:29:54,458
 is what you need to take.

995
00:29:54,666 --> 00:29:56,083
 So he can give you a much more

996
00:29:56,083 --> 00:29:57,791
 personalized and specific plan than just

997
00:29:57,791 --> 00:29:59,125
 kind of being like looking at your blood

998
00:29:59,125 --> 00:30:00,916
 work and telling you based off your

999
00:30:00,916 --> 00:30:03,416
 genetics, maybe why your hormones, you

1000
00:30:03,416 --> 00:30:05,166
 know, are presenting the way they are.

1001
00:30:05,166 --> 00:30:06,166
 Yeah, definitely.

1002
00:30:06,583 --> 00:30:08,291
 Is his company the DNA company?

1003
00:30:08,291 --> 00:30:08,958
 Have I got that right?

1004
00:30:09,666 --> 00:30:11,458
 He was, long story, he

1005
00:30:11,458 --> 00:30:12,666
 was part of the DNA company.

1006
00:30:13,125 --> 00:30:14,333
 He was the founder, he was actually the

1007
00:30:14,333 --> 00:30:14,916
 founder of that company.

1008
00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:16,458
 He was his chief scientific.

1009
00:30:16,458 --> 00:30:17,000
 He was the one who

1010
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,166
 created all their products.

1011
00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:19,791
 But then he ended up leaving

1012
00:30:19,791 --> 00:30:21,166
 and started his own company.

1013
00:30:21,166 --> 00:30:21,708
 And now his company is

1014
00:30:21,708 --> 00:30:22,666
 called the PhD clinic.

1015
00:30:23,541 --> 00:30:24,833
 Okay, no, I have to check that out.

1016
00:30:25,125 --> 00:30:27,083
 No, it's another rabbit hole.

1017
00:30:27,083 --> 00:30:28,041
 But yeah, no, I love the

1018
00:30:28,041 --> 00:30:29,208
 fact that you brought that up.

1019
00:30:29,208 --> 00:30:32,291
 I think, and in a minute, we will have to

1020
00:30:32,291 --> 00:30:33,250
 talk about the importance

1021
00:30:33,250 --> 00:30:34,541
 of hormones and longevity.

1022
00:30:36,375 --> 00:30:39,541
 But yeah, I think people especially women

1023
00:30:39,541 --> 00:30:43,333
 who put on to HRT, genes

1024
00:30:43,333 --> 00:30:44,458
 aren't taken into account.

1025
00:30:44,750 --> 00:30:46,791
 And I think another great test is, as

1026
00:30:46,791 --> 00:30:48,583
 you're probably well aware of, is the

1027
00:30:48,583 --> 00:30:49,500
 Dutch test in that respect.

1028
00:30:50,041 --> 00:30:52,000
 And just being able to identify how

1029
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,250
 effectively someone is going to

1030
00:30:53,250 --> 00:30:54,916
 metabolize a certain hormone before it's

1031
00:30:54,916 --> 00:30:56,500
 introduced to their body, I think is very

1032
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:58,708
 important, especially for women sort of

1033
00:30:58,708 --> 00:31:00,500
 transitioning or going into menopause,

1034
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:02,625
 where maybe they've not actually ever

1035
00:31:02,625 --> 00:31:04,500
 done any sort of hormonal testing as a

1036
00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:04,875
 baseline previously.

1037
00:31:04,875 --> 00:31:09,125
 So you don't have an idea of how

1038
00:31:09,125 --> 00:31:11,333
 effective of where that sort of estrogen

1039
00:31:11,333 --> 00:31:12,708
 baseline necessarily is.

1040
00:31:13,416 --> 00:31:15,833
 Now, of course, you can

1041
00:31:15,833 --> 00:31:17,166
 give someone testosterone.

1042
00:31:17,583 --> 00:31:20,250
 And for the most part, that's relatively

1043
00:31:20,250 --> 00:31:23,250
 easy to control in terms of systemic

1044
00:31:23,250 --> 00:31:25,500
 outcomes, but in terms

1045
00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:26,750
 of a side effect, sorry.

1046
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:29,000
 But when you start looking at estrogen,

1047
00:31:29,250 --> 00:31:31,166
 and giving it to someone specifically,

1048
00:31:31,791 --> 00:31:33,583
 and you're not aware of how well they're

1049
00:31:33,583 --> 00:31:34,833
 going to methylate or break it down,

1050
00:31:34,833 --> 00:31:37,791
 you're not aware of sort of first and

1051
00:31:37,791 --> 00:31:39,750
 second phase detoxification, in that

1052
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:40,708
 respect, I think it

1053
00:31:40,708 --> 00:31:41,916
 starts to get quite messy.

1054
00:31:41,916 --> 00:31:44,916
 And you can potentially start to trigger

1055
00:31:44,916 --> 00:31:47,166
 the development of certain cancers,

1056
00:31:47,166 --> 00:31:50,041
 especially where there's just a buildup

1057
00:31:50,041 --> 00:31:51,708
 of estrogen in the body over time.

1058
00:31:52,541 --> 00:31:56,583
 Obviously, your estrogen sensitive

1059
00:31:56,583 --> 00:31:58,416
 cancers specifically.

1060
00:31:59,166 --> 00:32:02,208
 So yeah, that's amazing.

1061
00:32:02,208 --> 00:32:03,500
 I love the fact that you take that

1062
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:05,000
 approach and you're looking at it from

1063
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,541
 more than just a serum

1064
00:32:07,541 --> 00:32:09,125
 blood work standpoint.

1065
00:32:10,208 --> 00:32:10,875
 In any case,

1066
00:32:11,916 --> 00:32:13,083
 off track again, this is...

1067
00:32:13,416 --> 00:32:14,041
 That's interesting.

1068
00:32:14,375 --> 00:32:16,958
 Yeah, because most people, I mean, that's

1069
00:32:16,958 --> 00:32:17,916
 what's offered to 99%

1070
00:32:18,208 --> 00:32:19,125
 of people still, right?

1071
00:32:19,125 --> 00:32:20,916
 So people need to know that there's

1072
00:32:20,916 --> 00:32:22,791
 something more sophisticated out there.

1073
00:32:22,791 --> 00:32:24,375
 It's just educating the public.

1074
00:32:25,041 --> 00:32:25,708
 Yeah, no, definitely.

1075
00:32:26,166 --> 00:32:29,291
 And I think it just goes to the sort of

1076
00:32:29,291 --> 00:32:30,666
 whole cookie cutter approach with hormone

1077
00:32:30,666 --> 00:32:33,041
 therapy, and why it

1078
00:32:33,041 --> 00:32:34,291
 fails to so many people.

1079
00:32:35,291 --> 00:32:38,458
 Obviously, in the UK, I'm sure familiar

1080
00:32:38,458 --> 00:32:39,750
 with the system we have here, everybody

1081
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:42,000
 just gets the overall patch, obviously,

1082
00:32:42,291 --> 00:32:43,875
 women in this respect, and then all of a

1083
00:32:43,875 --> 00:32:45,458
 sudden, they're bloated, depressed, and

1084
00:32:45,458 --> 00:32:46,666
 they have no clue why, but they're on

1085
00:32:46,666 --> 00:32:48,291
 HRT, why is it not working well?

1086
00:32:49,333 --> 00:32:51,166
 You are now estrogen dominant, have no

1087
00:32:51,166 --> 00:32:53,458
 progesterone or testosterone, and you

1088
00:32:53,458 --> 00:32:55,000
 wonder why you feel miserable as hell.

1089
00:32:56,625 --> 00:32:57,250
 In any case,

1090
00:32:58,666 --> 00:33:00,000
 again, apologies to everyone listening,

1091
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:00,916
 we've got straight into the weeds.

1092
00:33:01,250 --> 00:33:01,833
 But Dr.

1093
00:33:01,833 --> 00:33:03,625
 Kahn, I think it would be great if we

1094
00:33:03,625 --> 00:33:05,125
 could maybe just take a quick step back

1095
00:33:05,125 --> 00:33:07,875
 and talk about some of the importance of

1096
00:33:07,875 --> 00:33:09,750
 the importance of hormones in longevity.

1097
00:33:10,041 --> 00:33:12,125
 Now, I think when people think of, again,

1098
00:33:12,125 --> 00:33:13,833
 think of hormones, it's just the sex

1099
00:33:13,833 --> 00:33:15,500
 hormones that they think about.

1100
00:33:16,166 --> 00:33:18,375
 Of course, there are dozens of hormones.

1101
00:33:19,375 --> 00:33:20,291
 But specifically,

1102
00:33:21,333 --> 00:33:22,708
 your testosterone, your estrogen, your

1103
00:33:22,708 --> 00:33:24,791
 progesterone, your sex hormones, why is

1104
00:33:24,791 --> 00:33:25,916
 it important to maintain

1105
00:33:25,916 --> 00:33:28,000
 levels of those hormones as we age?

1106
00:33:28,708 --> 00:33:30,708
 What are their sort of fundamental roles

1107
00:33:30,708 --> 00:33:32,541
 in helping someone to age,

1108
00:33:32,875 --> 00:33:33,833
 quote unquote, gracefully?

1109
00:33:34,541 --> 00:33:36,791
 Well, I think we know with obviously with

1110
00:33:36,791 --> 00:33:38,333
 testosterone, but also estrogen and

1111
00:33:38,333 --> 00:33:39,666
 progesterone having the right balance,

1112
00:33:39,666 --> 00:33:41,458
 they all they relate to muscle mass, bone

1113
00:33:41,458 --> 00:33:43,958
 density, heart health, brain health.

1114
00:33:44,791 --> 00:33:46,666
 So meaning if you have low testosterone,

1115
00:33:46,916 --> 00:33:48,125
 you're at increased risk of depression.

1116
00:33:48,958 --> 00:33:51,041
 In fact, there was a talk I attended

1117
00:33:51,041 --> 00:33:53,000
 once, where they said the most common

1118
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,916
 reason for a Prozac prescription in men

1119
00:33:54,916 --> 00:33:56,041
 is low testosterone.

1120
00:33:56,916 --> 00:33:58,666
 And because a lot of doctors, I mean, now

1121
00:33:58,666 --> 00:33:59,250
 there's obviously

1122
00:33:59,250 --> 00:34:00,291
 more awareness about it.

1123
00:34:00,291 --> 00:34:01,625
 But 10 years ago, there wasn't that

1124
00:34:01,625 --> 00:34:02,458
 awareness to check

1125
00:34:02,750 --> 00:34:03,416
 testosterone routinely.

1126
00:34:04,166 --> 00:34:05,000
 I mean, I don't think

1127
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:05,791
 it's still done routinely.

1128
00:34:05,791 --> 00:34:07,166
 But you know, at least there's more

1129
00:34:07,166 --> 00:34:09,041
 awareness to understand that, hey, maybe

1130
00:34:09,041 --> 00:34:10,791
 you have low mood, and maybe you're not

1131
00:34:10,833 --> 00:34:11,583
 feeling very good

1132
00:34:11,583 --> 00:34:13,083
 because of your hormones.

1133
00:34:13,083 --> 00:34:13,583
 So more people are at

1134
00:34:13,583 --> 00:34:15,166
 least thinking about that.

1135
00:34:15,166 --> 00:34:16,958
 And then I think, you know, with estrogen

1136
00:34:16,958 --> 00:34:18,250
 and progesterone is kind of the same

1137
00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:18,916
 thing, we know how

1138
00:34:18,916 --> 00:34:20,416
 protected they are for the body.

1139
00:34:20,916 --> 00:34:23,000
 And finding the right balance is the key.

1140
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,333
 It's not about like you said, it's not

1141
00:34:24,333 --> 00:34:25,916
 about having high levels necessarily,

1142
00:34:26,208 --> 00:34:27,625
 it's about achieving

1143
00:34:27,625 --> 00:34:28,750
 balance of those hormones.

1144
00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:30,666
 And that balance can be a little bit

1145
00:34:30,666 --> 00:34:31,958
 different for everyone too, I think.

1146
00:34:32,208 --> 00:34:35,000
 So that's really where, you know, I think

1147
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,833
 for musculoskeletal health, especially,

1148
00:34:38,041 --> 00:34:39,541
 that's really, I think the important

1149
00:34:39,583 --> 00:34:41,333
 thing when it comes to longevity because

1150
00:34:41,333 --> 00:34:44,458
 sarcopenia and low bone density become,

1151
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,166
 which is osteoporosis, become a big

1152
00:34:47,166 --> 00:34:49,000
 problem for women, especially as they get

1153
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,500
 into their 50s and 60s.

1154
00:34:50,833 --> 00:34:52,250
 And it only accelerates and then becomes

1155
00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:53,625
 a big problem for men too, as they get

1156
00:34:53,625 --> 00:34:55,125
 into their 60s, and they

1157
00:34:55,125 --> 00:34:56,125
 can't put on muscle mass.

1158
00:34:56,125 --> 00:34:57,500
 So if there's something, you know, we can

1159
00:34:57,500 --> 00:34:58,916
 do to combat that from a hormonal

1160
00:34:58,916 --> 00:35:00,833
 environment, then that's going to be, you

1161
00:35:00,833 --> 00:35:02,166
 know, obviously ideal.

1162
00:35:02,875 --> 00:35:04,250
 And I think, I think, you know,

1163
00:35:04,250 --> 00:35:05,583
 obviously, the thyroid, the thyroid

1164
00:35:05,583 --> 00:35:06,958
 hormones are also important, those are

1165
00:35:06,958 --> 00:35:08,791
 just the sex hormones, but thyroid, I'm

1166
00:35:08,791 --> 00:35:09,625
 sure people know that's

1167
00:35:09,625 --> 00:35:10,625
 related to metabolism.

1168
00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:13,000
 And, you know, it can, if you have a

1169
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,583
 thyroid, it can make you sluggish and

1170
00:35:14,583 --> 00:35:16,291
 weight gain and all this other stuff.

1171
00:35:16,541 --> 00:35:19,291
 But it can also affect importantly for

1172
00:35:19,291 --> 00:35:21,458
 us, it can, there's studies showing that

1173
00:35:21,458 --> 00:35:23,500
 if the thyroid levels are low, it can

1174
00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:25,250
 affect the micro environment of the stem

1175
00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:26,708
 cells to do their job effectively.

1176
00:35:27,458 --> 00:35:28,916
 So that's one of the

1177
00:35:28,916 --> 00:35:30,791
 reasons we look at hormones too.

1178
00:35:30,791 --> 00:35:32,666
 And we want them optimized because it can

1179
00:35:32,666 --> 00:35:33,458
 affect the stem cells

1180
00:35:33,458 --> 00:35:34,583
 ability to do their job.

1181
00:35:35,083 --> 00:35:36,375
 Yeah, no, I'd love to get into the

1182
00:35:36,375 --> 00:35:37,791
 thyroid the minute because again,

1183
00:35:37,791 --> 00:35:39,333
 something that I think a lot of people

1184
00:35:39,333 --> 00:35:41,791
 sort of overlook is that if you've got

1185
00:35:41,916 --> 00:35:44,208
 poor circulating levels of T3, the active

1186
00:35:44,208 --> 00:35:46,125
 thyroid hormone, it's going to alter, I

1187
00:35:46,125 --> 00:35:47,750
 believe, its star expression within the

1188
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:49,250
 mitochondria and the ability for the

1189
00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:50,291
 mitochondria to actually

1190
00:35:50,291 --> 00:35:52,000
 produce energy as well.

1191
00:35:53,541 --> 00:35:57,416
 In any case, how do you, as a physician,

1192
00:35:57,416 --> 00:36:00,875
 of course, start to look to help people

1193
00:36:00,875 --> 00:36:03,291
 optimize thyroid, not excuse me, this

1194
00:36:03,291 --> 00:36:06,000
 hormone function off the bat, obviously,

1195
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,041
 you're taking a functional

1196
00:36:07,041 --> 00:36:09,208
 sort of genomic view of it.

1197
00:36:09,458 --> 00:36:10,875
 And you're obviously including a lot of

1198
00:36:10,875 --> 00:36:12,125
 blood work and, and

1199
00:36:12,125 --> 00:36:14,458
 other metrics in this regard.

1200
00:36:14,458 --> 00:36:16,416
 But are you sort of starting off with

1201
00:36:16,416 --> 00:36:18,000
 sort of prohormones, things like

1202
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,208
 Pringnelen and DHE to start off with just

1203
00:36:20,208 --> 00:36:21,541
 to see if you can increase

1204
00:36:21,541 --> 00:36:24,416
 someone's natural sort of

1205
00:36:24,416 --> 00:36:26,708
 Yeah, that's my approach.

1206
00:36:26,708 --> 00:36:27,333
 Obviously, everyone's

1207
00:36:27,333 --> 00:36:28,333
 different with this stuff.

1208
00:36:28,333 --> 00:36:30,166
 But I'm always of the

1209
00:36:31,458 --> 00:36:33,750
 logic that if we can get your system to

1210
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:34,916
 work better on its own,

1211
00:36:34,916 --> 00:36:35,750
 why don't we try that first.

1212
00:36:36,083 --> 00:36:38,750
 And that's where peptides and you know,

1213
00:36:38,750 --> 00:36:40,750
 you mentioned bioregulators, you know, my

1214
00:36:40,750 --> 00:36:42,625
 regulators, I don't know how great the

1215
00:36:42,625 --> 00:36:44,500
 evidence is on that, to be honest, and I,

1216
00:36:44,500 --> 00:36:46,166
 you know, and I've heard mixed things,

1217
00:36:46,166 --> 00:36:48,041
 but I have seen, I've seen it helpful in

1218
00:36:48,041 --> 00:36:49,541
 certain cases, very, bioregulators are

1219
00:36:49,541 --> 00:36:50,708
 very hit or miss in my experience.

1220
00:36:51,458 --> 00:36:52,750
 But you know, peptides tend to be a bit

1221
00:36:52,750 --> 00:36:54,041
 more consistent, for example, something

1222
00:36:54,041 --> 00:36:56,833
 called kisspeptin, an ACG, which is, you

1223
00:36:56,833 --> 00:36:58,916
 know, basically can stimulate your LH and

1224
00:36:58,916 --> 00:37:00,125
 your own body to produce more

1225
00:37:00,125 --> 00:37:01,208
 testosterone on its own.

1226
00:37:01,666 --> 00:37:03,041
 And that you can, like you said, you can

1227
00:37:03,041 --> 00:37:04,208
 combine that with precursors like

1228
00:37:04,208 --> 00:37:05,708
 pregnant alone and DHEA.

1229
00:37:06,125 --> 00:37:07,541
 And then, you know, you can really get

1230
00:37:07,541 --> 00:37:10,000
 your own access going again and get your

1231
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,458
 own body to produce more testosterone.

1232
00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:13,833
 But I think so to me,

1233
00:37:13,833 --> 00:37:15,458
 that's always my first approach.

1234
00:37:15,458 --> 00:37:17,375
 Same thing with, you know, even with

1235
00:37:17,375 --> 00:37:20,291
 estrogen, estrogen metabolism, for

1236
00:37:20,291 --> 00:37:22,583
 example, there's research showing that,

1237
00:37:22,583 --> 00:37:24,666
 you know, the vaginal microbiome and the

1238
00:37:24,666 --> 00:37:25,625
 gut microbiome can

1239
00:37:25,625 --> 00:37:27,041
 affect estrogen metabolism.

1240
00:37:27,958 --> 00:37:29,458
 So meaning your estrogen, you can become

1241
00:37:29,458 --> 00:37:30,791
 estrogen dominant because of gut

1242
00:37:30,791 --> 00:37:31,791
 dysbiosis and because

1243
00:37:31,791 --> 00:37:32,791
 of vaginal dysbiosis.

1244
00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:35,375
 And so there's these next generation

1245
00:37:35,375 --> 00:37:38,250
 supplements now, probiotic supplements,

1246
00:37:38,250 --> 00:37:39,875
 basically, which help to restore the

1247
00:37:39,875 --> 00:37:41,833
 flora, which have been shown to help to

1248
00:37:41,833 --> 00:37:42,833
 restore the balance in

1249
00:37:42,833 --> 00:37:43,541
 the hormones as well.

1250
00:37:44,458 --> 00:37:44,958
 Yeah, that's fascinating.

1251
00:37:45,166 --> 00:37:46,625
 I'll have to do a bit of a deeper dive

1252
00:37:46,625 --> 00:37:47,833
 into that, especially sort

1253
00:37:47,833 --> 00:37:49,166
 of the vaginal microbiome.

1254
00:37:49,166 --> 00:37:49,791
 Yeah, check it.

1255
00:37:49,791 --> 00:37:50,875
 There's a supplement called Get Happy,

1256
00:37:51,250 --> 00:37:52,458
 it's from Germany, you know, how to name

1257
00:37:52,458 --> 00:37:53,541
 Get Happy, but it's from Germany.

1258
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,000
 And it's a vaginal microbiome supplement,

1259
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:56,958
 but it's been, that's

1260
00:37:56,958 --> 00:37:58,041
 basically what it does.

1261
00:37:58,041 --> 00:37:59,750
 And they have the research to kind of,

1262
00:37:59,750 --> 00:38:01,541
 they have like, a lot of research to kind

1263
00:38:01,541 --> 00:38:02,333
 of back up what they're saying.

1264
00:38:02,916 --> 00:38:04,875
 Yeah, I'll definitely dig into that.

1265
00:38:04,875 --> 00:38:05,125
 Thank you.

1266
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:06,666
 And then just to sort of, I suppose,

1267
00:38:06,666 --> 00:38:08,375
 touch on the thyroid piece specifically.

1268
00:38:09,625 --> 00:38:11,833
 Now, obviously, in aging populations, the

1269
00:38:11,833 --> 00:38:13,833
 thyroid is naturally going to decline,

1270
00:38:13,833 --> 00:38:16,000
 you sort of see that that transient rise

1271
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,000
 in TSH as an individual gets older, and

1272
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,083
 then I suppose, naturally, sort of lower

1273
00:38:20,083 --> 00:38:23,250
 levels of the circulating thyroid

1274
00:38:23,250 --> 00:38:26,208
 hormones, T3, T4, T3, T3, T4, etc.

1275
00:38:28,166 --> 00:38:30,458
 Maybe, that might be a bit of a technical

1276
00:38:30,458 --> 00:38:32,250
 question, I suppose, but where do you

1277
00:38:32,250 --> 00:38:34,500
 sort of, how do you start to deal with

1278
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:36,708
 some of these hormones, again, from a

1279
00:38:36,708 --> 00:38:38,458
 long, well, thyroid hormones from a

1280
00:38:38,458 --> 00:38:40,375
 longevity perspective, especially taking

1281
00:38:40,375 --> 00:38:43,000
 into account that as one ages, there's

1282
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:44,833
 going to be a sort of a decrease in these

1283
00:38:44,833 --> 00:38:45,666
 three levels of

1284
00:38:45,666 --> 00:38:47,250
 circulating thyroid, of course.

1285
00:38:48,083 --> 00:38:50,666
 And I only mention that because I assume

1286
00:38:50,666 --> 00:38:53,541
 when you look at it from a sort of a

1287
00:38:53,541 --> 00:38:56,291
 physiology standpoint, there has to be a

1288
00:38:56,291 --> 00:38:59,333
 reason for thyroid declining as one ages.

1289
00:38:59,791 --> 00:39:02,000
 Now, obviously, if you ramp up thyroid

1290
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,208
 activity too much, you're going to

1291
00:39:04,208 --> 00:39:05,875
 actually end up sort of burning through

1292
00:39:05,875 --> 00:39:07,041
 that stem cell pull, I think

1293
00:39:07,041 --> 00:39:08,166
 I'm correct in saying that.

1294
00:39:08,750 --> 00:39:10,250
 So how do you find that sort of that

1295
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:12,625
 happy balance between helping somebody

1296
00:39:12,625 --> 00:39:14,916
 sort of maintain optimal thyroid function

1297
00:39:14,916 --> 00:39:17,583
 so that they aren't brain fog depressed,

1298
00:39:17,583 --> 00:39:21,666
 overweight, and moody versus not in this

1299
00:39:21,666 --> 00:39:23,958
 sort of hypercatabolic state where

1300
00:39:23,958 --> 00:39:26,041
 they're burning through the excess

1301
00:39:26,041 --> 00:39:27,875
 cortisol stem cells, etc.

1302
00:39:29,208 --> 00:39:31,625
 Do you find that people generally need

1303
00:39:31,625 --> 00:39:33,208
 replacement as they sort of get older?

1304
00:39:33,208 --> 00:39:35,625
 Or is that sort of very individual?

1305
00:39:36,583 --> 00:39:37,791
 Well, yeah, I mean, you're coming back to

1306
00:39:37,791 --> 00:39:38,500
 the whole idea, right?

1307
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:39,791
 The thyroid is kind of like the metabolic

1308
00:39:39,791 --> 00:39:40,916
 engine of the cells.

1309
00:39:40,916 --> 00:39:42,708
 And if it's not functioning properly,

1310
00:39:42,708 --> 00:39:44,666
 then your whole metabolic activity and

1311
00:39:44,666 --> 00:39:46,250
 how your mitochondria work and everything

1312
00:39:46,250 --> 00:39:47,250
 in the cells will be affected.

1313
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:49,666
 And so that's why it's such a crucial

1314
00:39:49,666 --> 00:39:51,291
 hormone to have optimized.

1315
00:39:52,083 --> 00:39:55,125
 But the way I look at it is there's, for

1316
00:39:55,125 --> 00:39:57,500
 example, there's a lot of co factors such

1317
00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:00,666
 as selenium, which is such an easy thing

1318
00:40:00,666 --> 00:40:02,583
 to supplement with or eat Brazil nuts,

1319
00:40:02,958 --> 00:40:04,875
 which can be an important factor to help

1320
00:40:04,875 --> 00:40:07,125
 with increasing your own body's

1321
00:40:07,125 --> 00:40:08,250
 production of thyroid and

1322
00:40:08,250 --> 00:40:09,291
 making it work more efficiently.

1323
00:40:11,208 --> 00:40:13,041
 And then there's something called reverse

1324
00:40:13,041 --> 00:40:16,083
 T3, which is another way to kind of look

1325
00:40:16,083 --> 00:40:18,166
 at and interpret that, hey, maybe your

1326
00:40:18,166 --> 00:40:19,875
 body's under a lot of stress and then get

1327
00:40:19,875 --> 00:40:21,791
 cortisol and adrenal dysregulation.

1328
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:22,916
 I don't really like

1329
00:40:22,916 --> 00:40:23,750
 the word adrenal fatigue.

1330
00:40:24,375 --> 00:40:26,208
 But dysregulation is the more appropriate

1331
00:40:26,208 --> 00:40:27,666
 word, I think, which is, you know, when

1332
00:40:27,666 --> 00:40:29,208
 your cortisol is low, it's high, and when

1333
00:40:29,208 --> 00:40:29,833
 it's high, it's low.

1334
00:40:30,375 --> 00:40:31,041
 And that's what

1335
00:40:31,041 --> 00:40:32,041
 happens to a lot of people.

1336
00:40:32,041 --> 00:40:33,791
 So they don't have that spike in cortisol

1337
00:40:33,791 --> 00:40:35,500
 in the am and then they have that they

1338
00:40:35,500 --> 00:40:36,875
 actually have high cortisol in the pm and

1339
00:40:36,875 --> 00:40:37,875
 they can't do wired retired.

1340
00:40:38,083 --> 00:40:39,583
 And that's that's that kind of

1341
00:40:39,583 --> 00:40:42,625
 dysregulated rhythm, it can play a big

1342
00:40:42,625 --> 00:40:43,375
 role in affecting

1343
00:40:43,375 --> 00:40:44,541
 thyroid function as well.

1344
00:40:45,208 --> 00:40:46,833
 So I think that's why you have to look at

1345
00:40:46,833 --> 00:40:48,166
 the whole picture from that perspective.

1346
00:40:48,458 --> 00:40:50,791
 But to answer your question, it's very

1347
00:40:50,791 --> 00:40:53,583
 important for us because if at the end of

1348
00:40:53,583 --> 00:40:54,666
 the day, if you're if you're thyroid

1349
00:40:54,666 --> 00:40:55,833
 hormone, it's kind of like the one of the

1350
00:40:55,833 --> 00:40:58,000
 lowest hanging fruit, you know, and if

1351
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,500
 that's not optimized, then it's going to

1352
00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:00,750
 affect your whole body's health and

1353
00:41:00,750 --> 00:41:02,916
 longevity and your metabolic health,

1354
00:41:02,916 --> 00:41:04,750
 metabolic health is the foundation of how

1355
00:41:04,750 --> 00:41:06,791
 longevity really that's why that's why

1356
00:41:06,791 --> 00:41:09,041
 GLP ones, you know, as much as I don't as

1357
00:41:09,041 --> 00:41:10,208
 much as they have side effects and other

1358
00:41:10,208 --> 00:41:11,666
 things with them, they're probably net

1359
00:41:11,666 --> 00:41:13,500
 positive for society, you know, because

1360
00:41:13,500 --> 00:41:14,708
 at the end of the day, they're proving

1361
00:41:14,708 --> 00:41:15,916
 people's metabolic health.

1362
00:41:16,416 --> 00:41:18,083
 And I think if anything, that's going to

1363
00:41:18,083 --> 00:41:19,666
 help your metabolic health as just from

1364
00:41:19,666 --> 00:41:21,666
 like a first principles perspective for

1365
00:41:21,666 --> 00:41:23,458
 health, I think that's going to be a good

1366
00:41:23,458 --> 00:41:25,333
 thing for your for everyone really.

1367
00:41:26,125 --> 00:41:29,250
 Yeah, no, I do appreciate that because I

1368
00:41:29,250 --> 00:41:33,666
 think, I mean, again, I, I, I don't think

1369
00:41:33,666 --> 00:41:36,125
 we need we should we should need GLP ones

1370
00:41:36,125 --> 00:41:37,791
 and everybody's very quick to sort of

1371
00:41:37,791 --> 00:41:38,625
 throw them under the bus.

1372
00:41:38,875 --> 00:41:41,416
 But as a society, I think they're an

1373
00:41:41,416 --> 00:41:42,750
 incredibly useful intervention.

1374
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,458
 And of course, just from the their

1375
00:41:45,458 --> 00:41:47,833
 ability to, as you say, modulate

1376
00:41:49,208 --> 00:41:51,625
 metabolic health by way of obviously

1377
00:41:51,625 --> 00:41:53,083
 improving blood sugar, but the obvious,

1378
00:41:53,083 --> 00:41:55,083
 of course, they are starting to show

1379
00:41:55,083 --> 00:41:57,291
 quite a lot of efficacy for off off label

1380
00:41:57,291 --> 00:41:58,791
 as well for helping to control

1381
00:41:59,041 --> 00:42:02,541
 individuals with issues

1382
00:42:02,541 --> 00:42:04,208
 with MCAS and histamine, etc.

1383
00:42:04,666 --> 00:42:06,958
 So I do think that they're an incredibly

1384
00:42:06,958 --> 00:42:08,250
 useful class of molecules.

1385
00:42:09,625 --> 00:42:09,750
 Dr.

1386
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:10,916
 Kahn, I know we're sort of slowly

1387
00:42:10,916 --> 00:42:13,125
 starting to run up in time, but I'd love

1388
00:42:13,125 --> 00:42:15,166
 to ask you about mini circle and its

1389
00:42:15,166 --> 00:42:18,250
 inability and its ability to help

1390
00:42:18,250 --> 00:42:20,041
 regulate testosterone levels.

1391
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:22,125
 Now, the way I understand it, mini

1392
00:42:22,125 --> 00:42:24,708
 circle, it's, it's, I suppose,

1393
00:42:24,708 --> 00:42:26,500
 fundamentally, it's a

1394
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:30,083
 gene editing system.

1395
00:42:31,166 --> 00:42:33,500
 And yeah, you're not directly editing the

1396
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:35,250
 genes, of course, but you're all

1397
00:42:35,250 --> 00:42:37,541
 introducing a viral vector or you're

1398
00:42:37,541 --> 00:42:39,125
 utilizing CRISPR or anything like that.

1399
00:42:39,458 --> 00:42:40,500
 But from what I understand, you're

1400
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:43,250
 utilizing a sort of a plasma vector, a

1401
00:42:43,250 --> 00:42:45,333
 plasmid vector, I think, to then alter

1402
00:42:45,333 --> 00:42:46,916
 the expression of various genes.

1403
00:42:47,875 --> 00:42:49,833
 I've bring this full circle, of course,

1404
00:42:50,375 --> 00:42:52,458
 could you sort of explain that process to

1405
00:42:52,458 --> 00:42:55,791
 us and how you're utilizing it to help

1406
00:42:55,791 --> 00:42:57,208
 optimize testosterone

1407
00:42:57,208 --> 00:42:59,333
 levels in individuals?

1408
00:43:00,416 --> 00:43:01,083
 Yeah, so it's what's

1409
00:43:01,083 --> 00:43:02,625
 called an additive gene therapy.

1410
00:43:03,208 --> 00:43:05,041
 So we're adding a gene to your body,

1411
00:43:05,041 --> 00:43:06,416
 we're not editing your genes.

1412
00:43:06,958 --> 00:43:08,625
 So it's, it's obviously safer in that

1413
00:43:08,625 --> 00:43:10,208
 sense, because it's not as complicated.

1414
00:43:10,916 --> 00:43:13,458
 But and traditionally, the problem with

1415
00:43:13,458 --> 00:43:15,291
 gene therapy, additive gene therapy was,

1416
00:43:15,666 --> 00:43:16,958
 you know, finding the right vector that

1417
00:43:16,958 --> 00:43:18,333
 could be both safe and effective.

1418
00:43:19,166 --> 00:43:20,958
 Mini circle plasmids are definitely very

1419
00:43:20,958 --> 00:43:22,958
 safe, because they're very inert.

1420
00:43:23,333 --> 00:43:24,333
 So they're basically derived from

1421
00:43:24,333 --> 00:43:26,166
 bacteria from E. coli is kind of just

1422
00:43:26,166 --> 00:43:28,083
 imagine it just like the name says, it's

1423
00:43:28,083 --> 00:43:28,791
 a mini circle, it's like

1424
00:43:28,791 --> 00:43:29,833
 a little circle of DNA.

1425
00:43:30,625 --> 00:43:32,541
 And then you can you can use it to what's

1426
00:43:32,541 --> 00:43:34,041
 called transfect a cell.

1427
00:43:34,291 --> 00:43:35,708
 So that cell becomes like a little

1428
00:43:35,708 --> 00:43:37,416
 factory to produce more

1429
00:43:37,416 --> 00:43:38,333
 of the gene of interest.

1430
00:43:38,666 --> 00:43:41,500
 So that gene of interest could be could

1431
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:42,958
 be like something for helping with

1432
00:43:42,958 --> 00:43:44,208
 muscle, it could be something to help

1433
00:43:44,208 --> 00:43:45,666
 with brain could be there's so many

1434
00:43:45,666 --> 00:43:46,458
 different genes, obviously.

1435
00:43:46,666 --> 00:43:48,708
 And the one that became that we've been

1436
00:43:48,708 --> 00:43:50,583
 doing is something called follow statin,

1437
00:43:50,833 --> 00:43:51,958
 which is more to help

1438
00:43:51,958 --> 00:43:52,916
 with muscle strength.

1439
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:54,500
 And interestingly,

1440
00:43:55,541 --> 00:43:57,458
 just to share my experience with people,

1441
00:43:57,458 --> 00:43:59,333
 the mini circle plasmid has kind of been

1442
00:43:59,333 --> 00:44:00,833
 like hit or miss, you know, it works for

1443
00:44:00,833 --> 00:44:02,166
 some people, it doesn't work for others.

1444
00:44:02,583 --> 00:44:03,500
 So it's not consistent.

1445
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:05,333
 But there is something called, there's a

1446
00:44:05,333 --> 00:44:07,375
 company called triple helix, which has

1447
00:44:07,375 --> 00:44:08,458
 what's called a viral gene

1448
00:44:08,458 --> 00:44:11,333
 therapy, a AV, adeno, socio virus.

1449
00:44:11,333 --> 00:44:13,916
 And that one has, you know, a V's have

1450
00:44:13,916 --> 00:44:14,625
 been studied for decades.

1451
00:44:14,625 --> 00:44:18,375
 And the issue historically with viral

1452
00:44:18,375 --> 00:44:20,083
 vectors was triggering some sort of

1453
00:44:20,083 --> 00:44:21,041
 immune response, right?

1454
00:44:21,041 --> 00:44:21,541
 Like you don't want your

1455
00:44:21,541 --> 00:44:22,750
 immune system to attack the virus.

1456
00:44:23,208 --> 00:44:25,000
 But now they can engineer the viruses, so

1457
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,333
 they're hypo immune, and they don't have

1458
00:44:26,333 --> 00:44:27,291
 that risk with them.

1459
00:44:27,916 --> 00:44:30,000
 So essentially, you can transfect the

1460
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,125
 cells with this viral vector.

1461
00:44:32,125 --> 00:44:33,166
 And it does work more

1462
00:44:33,166 --> 00:44:34,416
 effectively than the mini circle.

1463
00:44:35,083 --> 00:44:37,250
 I you know, in terms of safety, it's also

1464
00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:39,541
 it based off their data, it seems to

1465
00:44:39,541 --> 00:44:40,666
 equally as safe too.

1466
00:44:40,666 --> 00:44:41,166
 And it can last.

1467
00:44:41,583 --> 00:44:42,500
 The interesting thing about the viral

1468
00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:44,208
 vector is it can last for up to 10 years.

1469
00:44:44,208 --> 00:44:45,666
 Whereas you know, the mini

1470
00:44:45,666 --> 00:44:46,875
 circle only lasts for a year.

1471
00:44:46,875 --> 00:44:47,208
 So there's some

1472
00:44:47,208 --> 00:44:48,625
 interesting pros and cons of each.

1473
00:44:48,625 --> 00:44:51,291
 But the point is, these vectors, whether

1474
00:44:51,291 --> 00:44:52,833
 it's a viral vector or a mini circle

1475
00:44:52,833 --> 00:44:55,375
 vector, they can eventually be used to

1476
00:44:55,375 --> 00:44:58,041
 transfect your G your cells to perhaps

1477
00:44:58,041 --> 00:45:01,666
 produce more kisspeptin or luteinizing

1478
00:45:01,666 --> 00:45:03,041
 hormone or gene or H.

1479
00:45:03,458 --> 00:45:05,416
 Yeah, yeah, something to help your body

1480
00:45:05,416 --> 00:45:06,000
 produce more

1481
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,500
 testosterone for as an example.

1482
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:09,375
 So I think there's definitely going to be

1483
00:45:09,375 --> 00:45:10,333
 interesting applications.

1484
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:12,333
 I know, I know mini circle, they were

1485
00:45:12,333 --> 00:45:15,208
 trying to produce an LH gene therapy.

1486
00:45:15,458 --> 00:45:17,416
 That was one of the things but they

1487
00:45:17,416 --> 00:45:19,541
 couldn't get the levels high enough to

1488
00:45:19,541 --> 00:45:21,375
 the test for the testosterone to actually

1489
00:45:21,375 --> 00:45:22,750
 go high enough for it to be meaningful.

1490
00:45:23,416 --> 00:45:25,291
 So it might not be a thing with mini

1491
00:45:25,291 --> 00:45:26,708
 circle, maybe it'll be something with the

1492
00:45:26,708 --> 00:45:27,916
 viral vector company.

1493
00:45:28,333 --> 00:45:29,458
 But there's you know, this is obviously a

1494
00:45:29,458 --> 00:45:30,208
 hot area and there's so

1495
00:45:30,208 --> 00:45:31,333
 many companies in this space.

1496
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:34,375
 But I do think it's not that far distant

1497
00:45:34,375 --> 00:45:36,375
 in the future, well, we'll have a gene

1498
00:45:36,375 --> 00:45:39,000
 therapy product for hormone replacement

1499
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,083
 therapy as opposed to having to go on

1500
00:45:41,083 --> 00:45:42,041
 like TRT or something.

1501
00:45:42,833 --> 00:45:46,500
 Yeah, I suppose that is dependent on how

1502
00:45:46,541 --> 00:45:48,333
 effectively the testicles or potentially

1503
00:45:48,333 --> 00:45:50,000
 the theca cells and women, I think that's

1504
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,458
 where testosterone is produced in the

1505
00:45:51,458 --> 00:45:54,333
 ovaries, are functioning as well.

1506
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:56,000
 I assume if somebody has

1507
00:45:57,208 --> 00:45:59,416
 a secondary hypogonadism, something like

1508
00:45:59,416 --> 00:46:01,708
 this would be effective if it's helping

1509
00:46:01,708 --> 00:46:03,541
 to stimulate the HPT-8 to

1510
00:46:03,541 --> 00:46:04,708
 then produce more testosterone.

1511
00:46:04,958 --> 00:46:09,083
 But if there's a primary defect in the

1512
00:46:09,083 --> 00:46:10,833
 tissue within the body, whether it's the

1513
00:46:10,833 --> 00:46:13,625
 theca cells and women or I suppose

1514
00:46:13,625 --> 00:46:15,916
 potentially the adrenal cells and women,

1515
00:46:15,916 --> 00:46:17,208
 which obviously produces a certain amount

1516
00:46:17,208 --> 00:46:19,125
 of androgens as well, or the testes and

1517
00:46:19,125 --> 00:46:21,791
 men, that treatment like this is

1518
00:46:21,791 --> 00:46:24,000
 assumedly not going to be as effective.

1519
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,250
 Would I be correct in my thinking there?

1520
00:46:25,583 --> 00:46:26,250
 No, yeah, exactly.

1521
00:46:26,583 --> 00:46:27,750
 It definitely will depend on the person

1522
00:46:27,833 --> 00:46:29,666
 and their bodies, like let's say receptor

1523
00:46:29,666 --> 00:46:32,541
 sensitivity and ability to kind of have

1524
00:46:32,541 --> 00:46:33,625
 the signal because at the end of the day,

1525
00:46:33,625 --> 00:46:35,000
 this is just introducing an additional

1526
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:35,875
 signal to your body,

1527
00:46:35,875 --> 00:46:37,041
 which is this peptide, right?

1528
00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:39,125
 And how receptive your body is to that

1529
00:46:39,125 --> 00:46:40,583
 signal is going to really dictate whether

1530
00:46:40,583 --> 00:46:41,625
 or not it functions well.

1531
00:46:42,583 --> 00:46:43,333
 Yeah, no, definitely.

1532
00:46:45,125 --> 00:46:45,750
 Again, Dr.

1533
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:46,833
 Kahn, I want to be

1534
00:46:46,833 --> 00:46:47,958
 respectful of your time.

1535
00:46:47,958 --> 00:46:49,750
 So I'd love to sort of end off with a few

1536
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:50,875
 rapid fire questions,

1537
00:46:50,875 --> 00:46:52,083
 rapidish fire questions.

1538
00:46:52,083 --> 00:46:54,666
 They're never rapid fire, but we can try.

1539
00:46:54,666 --> 00:46:54,958
 We can try.

1540
00:46:55,166 --> 00:46:55,666
 We can try.

1541
00:46:55,666 --> 00:46:59,250
 In any case, okay, so yeah, and these are

1542
00:46:59,250 --> 00:47:00,375
 going to be a bit all over the place.

1543
00:47:01,041 --> 00:47:02,541
 Obviously, definitely with the focus on

1544
00:47:02,541 --> 00:47:03,791
 the regenerative side of things.

1545
00:47:03,791 --> 00:47:05,708
 But okay, so money, no object, and

1546
00:47:05,708 --> 00:47:07,166
 someone comes to you and they're sort of

1547
00:47:07,166 --> 00:47:07,958
 growth hormone deficient.

1548
00:47:08,541 --> 00:47:10,458
 Are you sort of a fan of sort of Incrolex

1549
00:47:10,458 --> 00:47:13,875
 or sort of HGH as sort of as a primary

1550
00:47:13,875 --> 00:47:15,125
 replacement therapy there?

1551
00:47:15,875 --> 00:47:16,458
 I guess it depends

1552
00:47:16,458 --> 00:47:17,416
 how deficient they are.

1553
00:47:17,416 --> 00:47:18,958
 But if they're on just like, let's say,

1554
00:47:18,958 --> 00:47:20,958
 the low side of normal, which is like, I

1555
00:47:20,958 --> 00:47:22,916
 would say, typical people as they get

1556
00:47:22,916 --> 00:47:24,458
 older, then I'm

1557
00:47:24,458 --> 00:47:26,208
 potentially a bit I'm a bigger fan.

1558
00:47:26,208 --> 00:47:27,541
 I mean, maybe I'm a little bit biased of

1559
00:47:27,541 --> 00:47:28,708
 growth hormone peptides.

1560
00:47:28,708 --> 00:47:31,250
 So for example, like I from relevant and

1561
00:47:31,250 --> 00:47:32,958
 test from rally and then, you know, the

1562
00:47:32,958 --> 00:47:34,625
 growth hormone releasing hormones and

1563
00:47:34,625 --> 00:47:36,375
 trying to get your own body to produce

1564
00:47:36,375 --> 00:47:37,583
 more of the peptide of

1565
00:47:37,583 --> 00:47:38,666
 the hormone on its own.

1566
00:47:39,250 --> 00:47:41,083
 So that's that's personally my approach.

1567
00:47:41,083 --> 00:47:43,375
 But I know there are very good

1568
00:47:43,375 --> 00:47:44,833
 endocrinologists and very some very good

1569
00:47:44,833 --> 00:47:46,583
 doctors who know how to cycle, you know,

1570
00:47:46,583 --> 00:47:48,750
 who know how to dose the GH properly and

1571
00:47:48,750 --> 00:47:50,166
 pulse it and everything so that it

1572
00:47:50,166 --> 00:47:51,958
 doesn't cause your own body to shut down

1573
00:47:51,958 --> 00:47:52,875
 or anything like that.

1574
00:47:53,541 --> 00:47:54,791
 Yeah, no, I think that's

1575
00:47:54,791 --> 00:47:56,250
 definitely the smart way forward.

1576
00:47:57,041 --> 00:47:59,750
 And sadly, I think for a lot of people,

1577
00:47:59,750 --> 00:48:01,750
 again, as the age, you're going to

1578
00:48:01,750 --> 00:48:04,208
 struggle with the production, you're

1579
00:48:04,208 --> 00:48:05,750
 going to struggle to get the maturity to

1580
00:48:05,750 --> 00:48:07,666
 reduce enough GH, obviously,

1581
00:48:09,125 --> 00:48:11,041
 which I think is maybe where those

1582
00:48:11,041 --> 00:48:12,625
 peptides start to lose the efficacy.

1583
00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:14,500
 As one gets older, would I

1584
00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:15,500
 be correct my thinking there?

1585
00:48:16,375 --> 00:48:18,708
 The your body's own the secret to dogs?

1586
00:48:19,166 --> 00:48:20,166
 Yeah, you're yes.

1587
00:48:20,166 --> 00:48:21,500
 Yeah, because you mean that because the

1588
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:23,250
 pituitary signal wouldn't be as good as

1589
00:48:23,250 --> 00:48:24,416
 it was when you're younger?

1590
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:25,791
 Yeah, essentially.

1591
00:48:26,375 --> 00:48:28,291
 Yeah, so so that yeah, so

1592
00:48:28,291 --> 00:48:29,750
 they may not be as effective.

1593
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:32,000
 But then I mean, I've been able to use

1594
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:33,791
 those peptides and people in their 60s,

1595
00:48:33,791 --> 00:48:35,416
 even, you know, to help them with their

1596
00:48:35,416 --> 00:48:36,791
 growth hormone and fat loss

1597
00:48:36,791 --> 00:48:38,291
 and recovery and all that stuff.

1598
00:48:38,666 --> 00:48:39,750
 Okay, that's amazing.

1599
00:48:40,291 --> 00:48:42,750
 Okay, next one, cloth or follow statin

1600
00:48:42,750 --> 00:48:44,208
 just from a sort of a longevity

1601
00:48:44,666 --> 00:48:45,916
 regenerate standpoint,

1602
00:48:46,166 --> 00:48:47,625
 which sort of big stats you both

1603
00:48:47,625 --> 00:48:49,958
 know is kind of the brain, let's say the

1604
00:48:49,958 --> 00:48:51,500
 brain one, right helps it can help with

1605
00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:54,333
 brain focus, like may help with IQ even

1606
00:48:54,333 --> 00:48:55,625
 and has all these interesting benefits

1607
00:48:55,625 --> 00:48:57,333
 for protect your body against dementia,

1608
00:48:57,916 --> 00:48:59,500
 especially even if you have the apo E4

1609
00:48:59,500 --> 00:49:00,666
 gene, it can protect your body.

1610
00:49:00,666 --> 00:49:01,375
 So clotho is a really

1611
00:49:01,375 --> 00:49:02,250
 interesting peptide.

1612
00:49:02,666 --> 00:49:04,875
 And false data is kind of the physical

1613
00:49:04,875 --> 00:49:06,208
 version of that, which it can help with

1614
00:49:06,208 --> 00:49:06,875
 strength and muscle.

1615
00:49:07,166 --> 00:49:09,625
 So I'm a little bit biased, I guess,

1616
00:49:09,625 --> 00:49:10,666
 because I'm a bit of a gym guy.

1617
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,750
 And I think I think follow statin

1618
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:16,833
 probably has more applicability for the

1619
00:49:16,833 --> 00:49:19,375
 wide, let's say the wider population

1620
00:49:19,375 --> 00:49:21,958
 based intervention, because most people

1621
00:49:21,958 --> 00:49:23,625
 don't have enough muscle, and most people

1622
00:49:23,625 --> 00:49:25,458
 lose a lot of muscle as they get older.

1623
00:49:25,458 --> 00:49:26,750
 So if you can do something to combat that

1624
00:49:26,750 --> 00:49:28,166
 process, I think that's going to be a

1625
00:49:28,166 --> 00:49:29,375
 more important public

1626
00:49:29,375 --> 00:49:30,333
 health intervention.

1627
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:31,333
 Fair enough.

1628
00:49:32,291 --> 00:49:34,208
 Okay, if you were to speculate, when do

1629
00:49:34,208 --> 00:49:37,125
 you think gene therapy generally speaking

1630
00:49:37,125 --> 00:49:38,333
 is going to go mainstream?

1631
00:49:38,916 --> 00:49:39,458
 Do you think it's going to

1632
00:49:39,458 --> 00:49:40,458
 be the next five 10 years?

1633
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,375
 Mainstream gene therapy is kind of I

1634
00:49:43,375 --> 00:49:45,250
 think gene therapy is where like, you

1635
00:49:45,250 --> 00:49:46,958
 know, stem cells were like 10 years ago,

1636
00:49:46,958 --> 00:49:48,500
 maybe so like, yeah, 10 years probably

1637
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:50,333
 like stem cells, I mean, aren't

1638
00:49:50,333 --> 00:49:51,750
 mainstream mainstream, but they kind of

1639
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:53,500
 are getting mainstream, you know, like,

1640
00:49:53,500 --> 00:49:55,041
 obviously, like now with the big

1641
00:49:55,041 --> 00:49:56,333
 celebrities and all these other people

1642
00:49:56,333 --> 00:49:57,458
 doing it, there's a lot

1643
00:49:57,458 --> 00:49:58,625
 of people interested in it.

1644
00:49:58,625 --> 00:50:00,250
 And most people have heard about stem

1645
00:50:00,250 --> 00:50:01,541
 cells, but most people have not heard

1646
00:50:01,541 --> 00:50:03,500
 about gene therapy or like just have very

1647
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:05,333
 vague understanding of it.

1648
00:50:05,583 --> 00:50:05,833
 Fair enough.

1649
00:50:06,500 --> 00:50:09,000
 And last one, what is your longevity and

1650
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:09,750
 health optimization

1651
00:50:09,750 --> 00:50:11,208
 routine currently look like?

1652
00:50:11,791 --> 00:50:13,750
 Well, aside from just the basics of

1653
00:50:13,750 --> 00:50:16,000
 weight training and cardiovascular, you

1654
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:17,375
 know, keeping the biggest thing I think

1655
00:50:17,375 --> 00:50:19,333
 for that stuff is high intensity short

1656
00:50:19,333 --> 00:50:20,958
 bursts of exercise, you don't have to

1657
00:50:20,958 --> 00:50:23,125
 spend hours in the gym, you can even do

1658
00:50:23,125 --> 00:50:25,000
 15 minutes of high intensity, like a full

1659
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,541
 body a few times a week, same thing with

1660
00:50:26,541 --> 00:50:27,791
 high intensity interval training.

1661
00:50:28,166 --> 00:50:30,958
 So I think being efficient and having

1662
00:50:30,958 --> 00:50:32,583
 intelligent protocols is

1663
00:50:32,583 --> 00:50:33,541
 kind of the way to do it.

1664
00:50:33,833 --> 00:50:36,125
 And I think supplementation is also one

1665
00:50:36,125 --> 00:50:37,208
 of those interesting areas, which we

1666
00:50:37,208 --> 00:50:37,833
 could probably spend a

1667
00:50:37,833 --> 00:50:38,708
 lot of time talking about.

1668
00:50:39,041 --> 00:50:41,500
 But we were but I definitely like there's

1669
00:50:41,500 --> 00:50:42,875
 certain supplements I definitely like

1670
00:50:42,875 --> 00:50:46,541
 such as creatine, such as the collagen

1671
00:50:46,541 --> 00:50:48,083
 peptide that you guys make, I really like

1672
00:50:48,083 --> 00:50:49,416
 that one that we're talking about,

1673
00:50:49,416 --> 00:50:50,625
 because that's, you know, something

1674
00:50:50,625 --> 00:50:51,791
 that's hard to get through diet.

1675
00:50:52,375 --> 00:50:53,000
 There's a really

1676
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:54,750
 interesting supplement called glitine.

1677
00:50:55,666 --> 00:50:57,208
 Glitine is the only supplement I know

1678
00:50:57,208 --> 00:50:58,750
 that can improve

1679
00:50:58,750 --> 00:51:00,916
 intracellular glutathione.

1680
00:51:01,791 --> 00:51:03,583
 So I like so that's a really interesting

1681
00:51:03,583 --> 00:51:05,208
 supplement because glutathione is like

1682
00:51:05,208 --> 00:51:07,083
 the master antioxidant in your body and

1683
00:51:07,458 --> 00:51:08,666
 glitine can is

1684
00:51:08,666 --> 00:51:10,000
 basically a precursor to that.

1685
00:51:10,666 --> 00:51:12,291
 So those are some of like my favorite,

1686
00:51:12,291 --> 00:51:13,875
 let's say, longevity supplements that I

1687
00:51:13,875 --> 00:51:17,000
 take on a regular basis and then and then

1688
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,958
 just kind of doing the foundational stuff

1689
00:51:18,958 --> 00:51:21,333
 with minimally processed foods and sleep

1690
00:51:21,333 --> 00:51:23,500
 and mindfulness and all that good stuff.

1691
00:51:24,250 --> 00:51:25,000
 That's amazing.

1692
00:51:25,708 --> 00:51:25,791
 Dr.

1693
00:51:25,791 --> 00:51:27,333
 Khan, you've been amazing.

1694
00:51:27,916 --> 00:51:29,375
 Honestly, that was an

1695
00:51:29,375 --> 00:51:30,083
 incredible conversation.

1696
00:51:30,416 --> 00:51:30,666
 Thank you.

1697
00:51:31,541 --> 00:51:33,125
 Where can we point people to find you

1698
00:51:33,125 --> 00:51:34,916
 should they wish to sort of reach out

1699
00:51:34,916 --> 00:51:35,750
 learn more about it and

1700
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:36,708
 what it is you do, etc.

1701
00:51:37,375 --> 00:51:39,000
 Yeah, I mean, I think I'm most active on

1702
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,666
 Instagram at dr.acon aka jn.

1703
00:51:41,666 --> 00:51:43,250
 And then we are web our company is called

1704
00:51:43,250 --> 00:51:45,916
 Eterna, like eternal without L and our

1705
00:51:45,916 --> 00:51:47,750
 website is Eterna.health if they want to

1706
00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:49,208
 check it out for more information.

1707
00:51:50,083 --> 00:51:50,333
 Perfect.

1708
00:51:50,875 --> 00:51:51,875
 Thank you so much for your time.

1709
00:51:51,875 --> 00:51:53,500
 I'm definitely going to have to sort of

1710
00:51:53,500 --> 00:51:55,416
 try and get back into Mel's good books

1711
00:51:55,416 --> 00:51:56,208
 and see if I can book

1712
00:51:56,208 --> 00:51:56,916
 you again in the future.

1713
00:51:57,166 --> 00:51:58,041
 But this has been amazing.

1714
00:51:58,333 --> 00:51:58,958
 Thank you so much.