Heather Shannon (00:01.881)
Hello, my friends, and welcome to an amazing guest episode that we are having this week on sex for couples. Today I have another sex therapist who's also a certified IFS therapist and clinical consultant, Patricia Rich. Welcome, Patricia. Yeah, so happy to have you here. I've heard of your work, by the way, for a while.
Patricia (00:18.818)
Hi.
Heather Shannon (00:26.105)
Because there's not a ton of people who do both sex therapy and IFS. I feel like there's a couple handfuls of us maybe. But I would love for you to share a little bit more about who do you tend to help and work with and how. Yeah.
Patricia (00:43.726)
Great. First of all, I'm really honored to be invited on the podcast. So I'm looking forward to our conversation. And I'm quite passionate about both areas. I'm really passionate about IFS. And I found IFS after I had already become a sex therapist. So it was a really useful way to really deepen the work with people. I, you know, over the years, been many years now, I've been kind of
Heather Shannon (00:47.961)
Thanks.
Heather Shannon (00:53.41)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (01:00.962)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (01:06.221)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (01:13.71)
cultivating different ways, like concepts and tools and exercises that are really accessible for people to use. yeah, kind of making an integrative approach.
Heather Shannon (01:17.055)
Mm-hmm. I love that. Okay.
Heather Shannon (01:26.009)
Yes. Yes, that's so wonderful. And I mean, I think that's a big part of what my listeners tend to love as well is just like practical tools that they can use. So that's awesome. I also just excited to celebrate IFS. So let's talk a little bit about like, for people who haven't listened to me, like talk about this and ramble about a bunch of other episodes. What is IFS? And why is it fabulous? And why do people need to hear about it?
Patricia (01:50.042)
Great question. So it's an acronym for internal family systems, which is an approach developed by Dr. Richard Schwartz more than 40 years ago, born as a psychotherapeutic approach. And now it's really an understanding of our inner worlds, our personalities. And for some people, it's a practice, perhaps even a spiritual path for some, although it doesn't require any kind of belief system.
Heather Shannon (01:55.96)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (02:13.163)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (02:20.054)
And it's, I could kind of go over just really in a nutshell, like there's a few core assumptions and then there's some ways it can be helpful. So in a nutshell, number one, there's this idea that multiplicity is normal, like that we all have sub-personalities or just different sort of consciousness centers. I sometimes think of them as within us and each one has like a function, a job, a perspective.
Heather Shannon (02:27.169)
Yeah, let's do it. Yes.
Heather Shannon (02:38.659)
Mm-hmm.
that. Yeah.
Patricia (02:47.992)
kind of like I think of organs of the body, know, they're all sort of distinct, but then they work together. And when they're all working well together, we don't walk around thinking about my kidney or my pancreas, right? And I think our parts, when they're kind of working well, everything's harmonious. We don't go around so aware of our parts, but I think we notice them more if something's a little.
Heather Shannon (02:50.455)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (02:54.326)
Yeah!
Heather Shannon (02:59.098)
Hehehehehaha!
Heather Shannon (03:04.14)
Yes.
Patricia (03:10.732)
you know, irritated or aggravated, or we're having trouble processing something, or we're having a really big reaction to something. And so within IFS, we have this way of sort of turning our focus inward and getting curious about what is active in our kind of inner world. That could be thoughts, body sensations, emotions, behaviors. And there's a certain kind of manner of bringing curiosity to those that opens up
Heather Shannon (03:12.512)
Yes!
Heather Shannon (03:16.606)
Right. Yes.
Heather Shannon (03:25.07)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (03:31.309)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (03:40.578)
kind of a way to really have a relationship with our own parts.
Heather Shannon (03:44.249)
Yes. So for people who are like, what do you mean parts? Like what would be some examples, especially in sex lives, know, of parts that might come up frequently for people?
Patricia (03:48.118)
Yeah.
Patricia (03:53.006)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, well, there's all kinds. Again, when things are going pretty smoothly, we may have parts that just sort of know when it's time to get their sexy on. And, know, I'm going to take a shower today and shave my legs. You know, I'm going to like prepare my bedroom. I'm going to like so like get make sure I have my lube on the night table, like whatever it is. when they're in sync, we don't really think about that. But that could be sort of a managerial part of ourselves.
Heather Shannon (04:05.29)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (04:12.064)
Yeah!
Heather Shannon (04:16.374)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (04:23.149)
True.
Patricia (04:23.596)
that kind of helps us to do what we need to do. But if that managerial part isn't so feeling so safe, it's, so for instance, maybe, you know, you and this person you're dating that had a big fight last night and I'm not so sure you should open yourself up sexually to this person today or, you know, like, so maybe there's like a little,
Heather Shannon (04:27.255)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (04:43.02)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (04:47.511)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah
Patricia (04:51.49)
You know, so like normally I would be setting up my bedroom, but something's making me feel cranky today. And maybe I don't really know what it is. Like maybe I didn't hear the part exactly. I'm just noticing I'm feeling cranky or I'm not in the mood. That could be the thing I get curious about, you know? And so again, I have some, you know, particular ways I guide people to what I call like, I have an acronym I developed and I actually have a free little
Heather Shannon (05:00.141)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (05:17.943)
Yeah. Amazing. Okay. Okay.
Patricia (05:18.858)
guide about it, but I call it take a few beats. B-E-A-T-S. So just take a minute to notice your body and your breath. That's the B. Notice your emotions. Notice your actions or your impulses to action. Notice your thoughts. And then the S is kind of like your wise itself. Sort of like what does your wise itself want you to know right now? Yeah. And so that's like a
Heather Shannon (05:27.841)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (05:32.545)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (05:40.665)
I love that acronym. That's so great.
Patricia (05:46.99)
quick way to sort of check in. So there is, it's suited to people who like to have some self-awareness and it's kind of a, you know, it's a mode, right? Like some people don't want to look inside, don't want to slow down, don't want to be self-aware, just want stuff. It's all out there. And if that's working, that's great, you know, but for a lot of people, it's actually really kind of fun and it builds an intimacy with your own.
Heather Shannon (05:50.221)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (05:57.731)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (06:03.531)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Patricia (06:14.764)
Like as you start to get to know these parts of yourself, like they are like little characters kind of, and we start to have like, feel like I, you know, it's me and the gang everywhere I go, you know, like. And that we're never in bed, we're never alone in bed. You didn't know. There's a couple more things about IFS that I think are important to mention, which is that in addition to these different parts of ourselves,
Heather Shannon (06:19.705)
You
Heather Shannon (06:27.097)
You're never alone people
Yeah, you're always having an orgy, you just didn't know.
Heather Shannon (06:39.449)
Yeah.
Patricia (06:44.322)
There's this idea that when those parts feel safe and relaxed and understood, we start to have access to sort of a deeper seat of awareness in ourselves. And so we start to kind of have a broader perspective. We may feel more centered. We may feel more in our bodies. We might feel more compassionate, curious, calm.
Heather Shannon (06:47.993)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (06:55.321)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (07:08.141)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (07:11.15)
And it's kind of like another level of awareness that the founder of the model calls self, you know, kind of, cause people would say that, you know, like what part of you is here now? Well, now I just feel like myself. Right. And so we have this idea that from this deeper self place, it's sort of like a really good place to be grounded in so that then we relate with our parts. We can listen to them. We can take in what they have to say, but not get totally hijacked.
Heather Shannon (07:16.451)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (07:23.02)
Yeah!
Heather Shannon (07:32.153)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (07:36.045)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (07:39.65)
Right.
Patricia (07:40.014)
by them and we also have a little more room to hear our partners and their parts without being maybe as reactive and in ways that sometimes aren't that sexy.
Heather Shannon (07:47.799)
Yes. Yes.
Yeah, yeah, you're bringing up so many important things. Like, so with the method I do with people, we often just start with the emotional intimacy before we get into the super sexual stuff. Because I think what you just said about not being reactive when our partner is sharing, like that's self energy to me. You know, it's like there's this spaciousness and lack of agenda where it's like, we can just actually let our partner be how they are. know, which sounds so simple.
Not always easy in practice. Yeah.
Patricia (08:22.24)
Right, right. Because what happens in our part, we have kind of different kinds of parts. So there's the ones like I mentioned that sort of help us in our daily functioning. And then we have ones that really like where our more vulnerable feelings go. And if we've been accumulating a lot of kind of wounds and, you know, bad feelings about ourselves, they sort of accumulate, you know, in us in these like
Heather Shannon (08:31.969)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (08:37.497)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (08:48.172)
Right.
Patricia (08:49.966)
Parts of ourselves that we tend to then not really want to feel or know because they carry all our insecurities or our hurts or abandonments or difficulty, right? And so those more vulnerable parts, sometimes we try to keep those out of our own awareness and maybe like protect them from getting hurt again.
Heather Shannon (08:56.44)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (09:08.109)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (09:13.059)
Totally.
Patricia (09:13.996)
Right? And so those manager type parts could sometimes have that as their primary job. Like, let's keep those guys out of the line of fire. Let's hide them. They're embarrassing. They cry. They get all messy. So we kind of don't want anyone to see those. We don't want to see those. So we're going to perform really well. We're going to please our partners. We're going to look good. We're going to be really compliant. Or we're going to be really in control the whole time.
Heather Shannon (09:21.471)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (09:34.829)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (09:38.687)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Patricia (09:41.25)
whatever it takes so we're not so vulnerable.
Heather Shannon (09:44.949)
Right. Except for we need vulnerability for intimacy. this is where people come to see us. Yeah. So you might be protecting a vulnerable part. A lot of people have attachment wounds, right? And so then maybe it's like, I have to be the good girl or I have to not be too kinky or not be too vanilla when it comes to your sex life. So it's all of these stories that we start to have about what our sex life should be.
Patricia (09:50.4)
Yes, yeah.
Patricia (10:11.723)
Exactly.
Right, right. And so if it's an overly, like if there's not a ton of burdening and trauma in the system, like we can use some discretion. Okay, like we'll do the things that help us to feel safe and connected. And then I can let, you know, these more vulnerable, you know, parts of myself come through, right? And that could be like sweet and connecting.
Heather Shannon (10:25.518)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (10:34.966)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (10:39.341)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (10:41.096)
you know, on the other hand, sometimes when they come through, it's like maybe they're carrying a lot of trauma, like a lot of terror, a lot of, you know, body memories or, you know, things that are really hard. That's when we get this other kind of protector that comes in that knife, I call firefighters, which are like just whatever it takes to shut down those really yucky feelings. Right. And that shut down when it comes to sexuality can be either
Heather Shannon (10:51.437)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (10:58.052)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (11:03.105)
Yep. Yep.
Patricia (11:08.748)
sort of pro sexual, like using sex, being really sexual as a way to kind of shut that down or numb those emotional kinds of parts or somehow match their energy or whatever it is. Like there's ways to try to deal with that with intense sexual compulsion or intensity, what some people might call compulsion. And on the other hand, those firefighter ones might just like take us out through dissociation.
Heather Shannon (11:12.504)
Yep.
Heather Shannon (11:29.271)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (11:36.897)
Yeah. Yeah.
Patricia (11:37.312)
a distraction or, you know, and like drug use could go either way, could lead into a lot of sex, it could shut down sex. like, but whatever it is, like there's these more reactive protectors that come in the firefighters. And that's usually there's not like a ton of self in the room, right? So, you know, I mentioned that deeper seat of the self, right?
Heather Shannon (11:42.937)
Mmm.
Heather Shannon (11:50.585)
Okay.
Heather Shannon (12:03.296)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (12:03.436)
that core self. So my work I call self-led sexuality. And I have like a whole schema to try to help people kind of find their sexual self energy and how to be connected with it as different parts like come and go. And also not just in the moment of some kind of sexual activity, but sort of in a broader sense, how to live in one's body and just feel like a sort of alive, vibrant, sensual person.
Heather Shannon (12:07.308)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (12:17.187)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (12:25.824)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (12:31.769)
like that. Can you give some examples of like, how can people know if they're sort of in a part, like if a part is running the show in their sex lives, or if they're in that self led sexual energy?
Patricia (12:45.462)
Yeah, that's a great question. It comes up a lot. And first thing I like to say is that it's not a good, bad binary. Like, it's good to be self-led. It's bad to be part-led. Like, we have parts. We need our parts. Our parts all have a positive intent for us, right? But I think if it feels like we don't have much choice or voice, like we go into automatic behaviors, maybe we're not feeling that much pleasure. We're not that present. We feel maybe we're getting into loops.
Heather Shannon (12:51.693)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Heather Shannon (12:58.656)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (13:10.753)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (13:14.926)
Maybe we kind of do things and then have regrets later. Backlash. Those might be clues that maybe parts have been more in charge without so much self available with them. It's a different thing to say, yeah, I want to engage in this kinky thing. And my parts are in agreement about that. And yeah, we're going to go for it. We want to do it, as opposed to like,
Heather Shannon (13:18.754)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (13:30.595)
That makes sense. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (13:39.705)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (13:43.57)
one part overriding all the other parts and just saying, you know, fuck it, you know, we're going to do this thing. And like a lot of other parts didn't get a chance to say if that was really okay with them or not. Right. And so then there might be more backlash or, you know, it all turn out in the wash, you know, like, okay, that was fun. That worked, you know, but maybe, maybe it's not, you know, maybe there's a little more like, know, like,
Heather Shannon (13:45.976)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (13:49.635)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (13:57.291)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (14:01.475)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (14:05.365)
Yep.
Patricia (14:12.92)
There's always this one part that feels really bad later. And maybe that one isn't included.
Heather Shannon (14:16.236)
So.
Heather Shannon (14:19.657)
That's true. And I think what you're saying, like one, it's very important to just acknowledge the parts, you know? But as I'm thinking that, I'm like, how can people tell their parts from each other? And how do they know if something is like just an emotion or a part? So how do you help people figure that out?
Patricia (14:30.22)
Yes, yes.
Patricia (14:35.246)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think curiosity is really important. Like if someone's even asking that question, I think they're like halfway there. Right? Like if you're reflective, you want to, you you aspire. I think it's self really like being self-led is sort of an aspirational thing. Like it's a good North Star. You know, we're not always self-led and yes.
Heather Shannon (14:42.125)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, I agree.
Heather Shannon (14:59.787)
Yes, yes. Okay, pause you just for a second. I think there's something happening with your elbows on the table, some kind of movement in your mic. It's like picking up like a little bit of a thumping sound. Okay, cool. I'll just cut that out. Yeah.
Patricia (15:06.487)
Okay. Okay. Okay. Where should we pick up?
Heather Shannon (15:15.001)
Okay, so we were, I'll re-ask the question. So if people are trying to understand what's a part and how do they tell their parts from each other, how do you support them with that?
Patricia (15:29.14)
Okay, yeah. Well, I think asking the question, you know, anyone who's asking themselves that question is halfway there, because they're curious. And curiosity is actually a quality of self energy. So just being curious, hey, what's happening for me right now? And I think, you know, some clues are, am I feeling kind of a sense of ease? Am I feeling some openness? Am I feeling some playfulness? Am I
Heather Shannon (15:34.784)
Mm-hmm
Heather Shannon (15:40.225)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (15:44.184)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (15:57.606)
here, like not super attached to one particular way this is going to go. Like maybe I have some ideas and I maybe I've even created a scene, but I'm also kind of open to how things are going to unfold. you know, those kinds of things I think, might be clues to having some self energy available. if it's feeling like, if you're feeling, can I tell if I'm in a part?
And honestly, it doesn't matter if you're in a part, if you're having a good time. There's not a problem. It's not, again, it's really not like a good, bad binary here.
Heather Shannon (16:30.425)
Agree. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (16:35.381)
Right, like no one's in their self-energy or fully self-led 100 % of the time. At least I don't know any of those people.
Patricia (16:43.03)
Yeah, and our parts like to have sex too. If we're really blended with a horny teenager part and they're able to get off and have a great time, cool, that's all right. And if we're maybe in really grieving and someone's experiencing a lot of grief and then they can be with someone who can really hold them in that, that's maybe a part of it. People could debate.
Heather Shannon (16:46.018)
Of course.
Heather Shannon (16:50.645)
Yeah. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (17:03.725)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (17:10.425)
Yeah, interesting.
Patricia (17:12.364)
you know, if self energy has deep emotions or if that's always a part, I try not to, there's a little like sex joke here, but like I try not to like split hairs about it. Like what's part and what's self, but it's more of a general feeling. You know, if you, if you feel like there's a compulsion or there's something that feels sort of a little too constricted for you sexually, you feel like there's, there's some, some walls.
Heather Shannon (17:16.567)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (17:21.305)
Mmm.
Heather Shannon (17:35.415)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (17:41.644)
You know, there's things that maybe you would rather have maybe a more open feeling around, you know, that could be a clue.
Heather Shannon (17:43.245)
Yeah?
Heather Shannon (17:47.937)
Right. OK. A lot of times what I'll hear from clients is, you know, I'm kind of just in my head, you know, I'll be having sex and I notice I'm just really in my head. So if someone kind of starts with that, where do they go from there in terms of parts work? You know.
Patricia (18:04.822)
Yeah, great. Yeah, and that happens a lot if I'm just kind of in my head. First of all, like noticing that and say, hi, know, like, hey, parts in my head, what's going on? You know, so just trying to get out of your head, like, well, what's happening in your head? And, know, it doesn't have to take a long time. It'll take me longer to try to explain this than it would take to really like do it. Just like, hmm, I'm like, like, is it?
Heather Shannon (18:17.495)
I like that. Yeah. Right. Right.
Heather Shannon (18:27.673)
100%, yes.
Patricia (18:31.852)
I'm really actually worried about something. Like I can't stop thinking about this conversation I had and it's upsetting me. Like that might be like a different way to get out of your head than if it's just like, I was just scrolling for three hours and I'm not in my body and I need to take some deep breaths and maybe I need to wiggle my toes and I need to kind of just move. Maybe I need to dance or like move a little just to get into my body.
Heather Shannon (18:37.227)
Right, right.
Heather Shannon (18:43.223)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (18:48.439)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (18:53.428)
Yes!
Heather Shannon (18:57.526)
Mm-hmm.
I love that you already mentioned multiple parts that could be responsible for the same quote unquote symptom. You know what I mean? If we had 100 clients that are like, I'm in my head, it could be 100 different parts, 100 different reasons why.
Patricia (19:08.568)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (19:15.566)
Right. And something else I love about IFS is, it's not like there's like a decoder ring and you could just say, oh, I have this kind of part. That means this. You know, it's really an open, it's sort of bringing sort of an open curiosity and kindness and turning toward whatever's sort of happening in the moment, almost like meditating, like, oh, this is arising. Like, what's that, huh?
Heather Shannon (19:22.585)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (19:27.298)
Right.
Heather Shannon (19:32.129)
Yes. Yes.
Heather Shannon (19:38.067)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Patricia (19:41.858)
You know, and then if you notice it, can sort of say, well, do you need anything for me right now? Or could you relax a little? And that can actually have a surprisingly impactful, like it could cause a shift internally, sometimes in a surprising way to say, hey, you know, I know there's part of me really worrying about that conversation. Like, do you need anything now? Or would it be okay to just relax for a little bit? Maybe we can think about that later.
Heather Shannon (19:46.925)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (19:57.527)
Yes.
Heather Shannon (20:09.877)
Yeah. Right. And that takes, what you just described, it's like under 30 seconds. You know? So yeah, as much as we're, sometimes I do feel like IFS requires a lot of explaining with actual practice of it can be very fast. Yeah.
Patricia (20:13.865)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Patricia (20:22.35)
Right. And I think the more we have established relations, found some parts, and that's a lot of the work that I do is like help people get curious to know the different parts of themselves and guiding them. could be a little weird to like first get into that. And so I think it's helpful when you have someone who is a trained IFS guide of some sort to really help you differentiate the parts and not just know that you have them mentally. It's not just a taxonomy.
Heather Shannon (20:26.636)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (20:33.879)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (20:41.017)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (20:48.184)
Right.
Patricia (20:49.88)
but to actually find that way to relate. Like there's a circuit of connection that it's sort of weird. you, it's just as though you're relating with another person, you know, like I can see it in someone's face when they've connected with one of their parts. It looks like they're talking to another person. Like their face just totally changes expression. Like, you know, like.
Heather Shannon (20:53.014)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (21:01.581)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
It's a fascinating method. And I mean, I'm sure you see this with clients too, but some people I feel like take to it like a fish to water, you know, where I'm just like, wow, there's such a rich inner landscape there. And they're so in touch with it right away. And then other people struggle, I think. you know, I'll be curious who you think kind of has a hard time with it. But what I notice is
people who I think are very intellectual are like, what is this mumbo jumbo about part, you know? And so they might struggle more with this sort of like going inward and like talking to their parts, but I still think they can conceptualize, you know, that the part exists.
Patricia (21:50.936)
Yeah.
And I think it depends on kind of what's motivating them to do the work. if those intellectual parts can be, if they can start to appreciate them and recognize them as helpers and protectors that have part of the story, but not the whole story, sometimes there's ways to kind of befriend those parts and then help them relax a little bit.
Heather Shannon (21:58.157)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (22:09.153)
Yeah. Yep.
Heather Shannon (22:16.416)
Yeah. Yeah.
Patricia (22:19.326)
And I don't know if you would want to do this now or later in our conversation, but if you wanted to do a example where I was guiding you, it might make more sense than just talking about it. Do you want to be the client or just be yourself finding a part, just a little, you know, little piece.
Heather Shannon (22:25.849)
Oh, yeah. Oh, that sounds great. Let's do it. Yes, I'll be the client. Yeah, let's go. Yeah. OK, let's see what what part would be I kind of want to do like a common part that people might let's just say like there's some sexual anxiety of maybe like. I don't know, like, am I going to be what my partner is hoping for?
There's maybe a little anxiety and security about that.
Patricia (22:56.449)
Okay.
Okay, all right. So maybe kind of bring that up for yourself. Imagine really being in a moment where you're having that feeling. And yeah, that's great. So I see you closing your eyes and as you bring up that feeling, what do you notice in or around your body?
Heather Shannon (23:06.847)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I like to close my eyes when I'm doing it. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (23:20.313)
feel like there's some stomach stuff happening.
Patricia (23:24.759)
me
Heather Shannon (23:25.355)
Yeah, just like a little nervous energy there. And maybe like going up to the chest a little bit too.
Patricia (23:29.112)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
OK, so yeah, so for listeners, I'm kind of guiding you to turn toward your experience, notice it in or around your body. And now I'm going to ask, does it feel OK to pay light attention to that? OK, great. So just pay light attention to it, just kind of letting it maybe show itself to you a little bit more. There might be an image, a color, a thought.
Heather Shannon (23:42.137)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (23:46.925)
Yes, it does.
Heather Shannon (24:02.169)
think that's just kind of like a gentle feeling. And,
It's almost like a part that feels maybe a little shy
And it does feel kind of like upper abdominal area.
Patricia (24:16.044)
Yeah.
Patricia (24:21.709)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (24:21.805)
And I'm kind of getting an image of the part is like I get very like abstract images. So everyone experiences their parts very differently. Some people get images, some people get words, some people get sensations. But for me, I get some abstract images, kind of. So there's almost like a like a off white like blobby blobby figure that's sort of like soft and vulnerable.
Patricia (24:45.55)
Okay, and how do you feel toward it?
Heather Shannon (24:46.85)
Yeah.
I feel like it's kind of cute. Yeah. I'm like, cute little vulnerable guy in there. Yeah.
Patricia (24:55.926)
Uh-huh, yeah. So you want to let it know you're noticing it?
Heather Shannon (25:00.183)
Yeah.
Patricia (25:02.508)
So that's a process to just cut in whatever way feels right, just to sort of send some awareness to that part or talk to it.
Heather Shannon (25:10.143)
Yeah. Yeah, it feels like there's some playful energy. don't know if that's coming. It might be coming from myself. I don't know if it's coming from the part, but it seems like the part likes the playful energy a little bit, too.
Patricia (25:17.27)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (25:23.272)
Yeah, so yeah, I was going to ask if it seems to notice you being with it or paying attention. Yeah, how can you tell?
Heather Shannon (25:32.153)
Cause I feel like it's sort of like looking up at me.
Patricia (25:35.66)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (25:36.213)
Yeah, and it's sort of like, I feel like it sort of likes being noticed.
Patricia (25:42.232)
So let it know you're noticing that, you know, and if you wanted to, you could ask it if there's more it wants you to know about itself.
Heather Shannon (25:52.385)
Yeah, it feels like the part is feeling some like delight. It being like noticed and then like notice of notice. It's like very, it's like very like, it's like, how fun. Yeah, so it likes that. Let's see if there's anything else that wants me to know.
Patricia (26:02.146)
This is...
Patricia (26:11.724)
maybe even about the anxiety about the sex, you know, upcoming sexual experience.
Heather Shannon (26:18.005)
Yeah, I think the part is like it feels safe with me, but it doesn't necessarily feel safe with another person. Is what I'm getting.
Patricia (26:24.622)
Okay, yeah. So you can ask it if there's more about that.
Heather Shannon (26:33.305)
Yeah, it just feels like other people can be judgy sometimes or like, so it doesn't really wanna be seen by them.
Patricia (26:42.446)
Yeah. And does it need to be like, maybe you can be with it around that? Like, does it need to be seen by others? Or could it kind of, yeah.
Heather Shannon (26:52.793)
It feels like like when you ask that it feels like sad like oh do I have to hide? know? Yeah.
Patricia (26:58.35)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So does it kind of want to be seen by others? I mean, it's like interesting.
Heather Shannon (27:03.105)
Yeah, it does. It does. I think that's why it's got that little delight when I'm noticing it, because it actually likes being seen. Yeah. Mm Yeah. Yes, yes.
Patricia (27:10.432)
Yeah, isn't that interesting, right? So it really feels good to be seen, but it's not sure it's so safe being seen by other people. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So just, yeah, ask it if there's anything more I would want you to know there.
Heather Shannon (27:31.095)
Mmm.
I think with this part, there's sort of like, I don't know if it's like a pressure, but it's kind of like, we'll pick a good person. You know, it's sort of what it's saying. Yeah.
Patricia (27:41.656)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And do you get that? Like that this part wants you or other parts of you perhaps to pick a person that feels like good to this part? And are there other parts that maybe pick people that you know probably wouldn't feel so safe for this part?
Heather Shannon (28:04.545)
No, I mean, think all the parts are on board with it except for maybe one that's just like, man, it's it's it's hard. It's tiring out there trying to find someone who's safe and emotionally intelligent sometimes, you know. Yeah.
Patricia (28:09.304)
huh.
Patricia (28:14.786)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (28:19.626)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Does this part get that too, that it's not always easy to find someone like that? Yeah.
Heather Shannon (28:26.763)
It does. It doesn't like love that answer, but it gets it. Yeah.
Patricia (28:30.518)
Yeah. So this is where it could get into a little group conversation even, with you being there. And I don't know if we want to continue into that or not right now, but you can really let this part know you're hearing it and then see if maybe the group of parts would want to have a conversation about this. Do they all want to be able to check in and give a thumbs up at a certain point?
Heather Shannon (28:37.561)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (28:52.247)
Yeah.
Patricia (28:58.284)
Are there certain people that this part might not want to be as known by and would maybe step out, you know, and not bring its, you know, self into a particular experience.
Heather Shannon (29:04.569)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (29:08.173)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (29:12.127)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think the sense I get from the system and the self-energy is sort of like, just wouldn't be intimate with that kind of person.
It's interesting. I am going to step out of the going inward for a second. Recalibrate. You do have to recalibrate. Yeah. Yeah. It's like when I'm in there and I don't know if other people have this experience a lot too, but like when you're kind of going inward, you're like, I feel like I'm totally just here and present in the conversation. And then I like open my eyes and like, okay, well, I was maybe a little deeper in there than I thought I was, you know. But that's what I love about IFS is that
Patricia (29:31.808)
It's a journey. It really is like you're going to the moon and then you're coming back.
Patricia (29:48.534)
Yeah, yeah.
Heather Shannon (29:53.621)
It feels so easily accessible to get into those kind of like an altered state really, where it can become kind of meditative or trance-like and just that inward focus.
But yeah, and as people learn to do this, because now I'm like, this was this was a great start to that for me. I'm like, I might do some work with these parts later and revisit that. So like, once you know how to access your self energy, this is something you can practice with yourself and your parts like anytime.
Patricia (30:19.052)
Yeah.
Patricia (30:25.676)
Right. Can I ask you a question about that experience? Because you started with the, you know, the well, no, with the concern about anxious about performance and right and people being judgy out there. So if you were to imagine that again, like imagine a scenario or something like that, having just connected with these parts to seeing if it feels any different or
Heather Shannon (30:27.673)
Please. Yes, yes.
The little blobby white part. yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (30:46.765)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Patricia (30:53.216)
If with more time, I know you didn't like spend a lot of time in there. Like how do you feel like that piece of work might inform?
Heather Shannon (30:56.084)
Yeah!
Heather Shannon (31:00.889)
I think it validates my discernment, because I think sometimes there is that push-pull, because it's interesting being a single sex therapist also. We don't have time for that today, people. yeah, there's part of me, obviously I like sex, right? I wouldn't be doing this job if I didn't like sex. So there's kind of like, oh, I'd like to have some more sex. And there's the other parts that are like.
Yeah, but we want someone who's safe. We want someone we feel comfortable with. And we want someone who's trustworthy and cares about us and all the that's us being all the parts. So, so yeah, I think this just validated the discernment of like, yeah, continue to have your standards and criteria. Yeah.
Patricia (31:45.78)
Mm-hmm, yeah, great. And that even there is what we sometimes call a polarization, right? Like when there's parts that both have valuable concern, like important concerns, but they lead to a different outcome. And they could be just like parents could love their both love their child, but have very different views on parenting. Our parts can care about us and have very opposite views.
Heather Shannon (31:51.545)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (32:13.89)
you know, it's best for you to be sexually active and really feel that and have that experience. And another one that's like, yeah, but you know, we want it to be safe and we don't want to get hurt.
Heather Shannon (32:13.977)
For sure. Right. Right.
Heather Shannon (32:24.953)
And there's different phases of life where different parts win. Like when I was in my 30s, I've also felt like that was more of an exploratory time for me. And so the balance of the parts and what was important for the system as a whole was different than what it is now. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Patricia (32:39.65)
Yeah, I love that, right? So the context is always changing. And it could be with age and different phases of life. It could even be in the same day or week. We have different needs or different priorities. If people have whatever, I can come up with scenarios. But yeah.
Heather Shannon (32:48.387)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (32:57.477)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that we have a lot of parts. I certainly have a lot of parts. Sometimes I call them parts parties when a lot of parts come up as one at one time. And sometimes I'll just write them all down and just acknowledge them all. And there will be like 15 parts. Yeah, this one actually felt very clean. It felt like the one part was staying the focus and then the other one just sort of like chimed in briefly. Like, I do have an opposing view. And it's like, OK, noted.
Patricia (33:12.782)
All right.
Patricia (33:24.704)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And without this approach, if you were having that same concern or the same feeling, I'm guessing without that lens that we can have multiple parts, sometimes it, I don't know about for you, for me it can often just feel a lot more confusing because it's like a push-pull or like there's just, if I only have the idea, I have to feel just one way. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (33:32.408)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (33:39.81)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (33:50.071)
Yeah, right. And I think what I see with clients and also myself historically, is that it becomes an inner battle. So instead of it being like a lovely acknowledging an inner conversation and like honoring the parts, it's kind of like, I just want to have sex. this person is not safe. It's so hard to find. So, you know, it becomes this sort of like angsty thing. But I do feel more spaciousness, which is a quality of self energy.
taking this approach. It's like, what if both can exist? know, it's like we're wonderfully complex beings as humans and often have contradictory feelings within ourselves.
Patricia (34:31.286)
Yeah. And to bring it to couples, which is, I know, important for your listeners, it gets even a little more complicated because you've got, you know, or, or polycules or whatever, know, you have more than one person and each person has their own system of parts and their own self energy. And then you have this sort of field that's created between everyone.
Heather Shannon (34:36.149)
Yeah, right. Yes.
Heather Shannon (34:47.395)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (34:51.299)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (34:57.282)
Yeah.
Patricia (34:57.906)
And one person's parts can bring out the other person's parts. And speaking of parts parties, that's like a real parts like hoedown, Because then you get, so to speak. Because, so I'll just say a couple with two people just for simplicity sake here, right? So if I have a part.
Heather Shannon (35:01.325)
And they often do. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.
Heather Shannon (35:19.736)
Yeah.
Patricia (35:23.564)
or if I could use the part you just had an example of, right? So say there's a part that isn't sure it's feeling so safe, maybe even a known partner, but maybe there was a conflict or that person's in a bad mood or something, right? So that part might be there, but then the other person may have a part that senses some hesitation, right? And then maybe their protector comes up and withdraws, and then, now I feel less safe because
Heather Shannon (35:31.161)
Mm-hmm.
Right, yes, yeah.
Heather Shannon (35:43.394)
Mm-hmm.
Yep. Yep.
Patricia (35:53.272)
They're really remote and you so you get a cycle going. And when we don't know we have our own parts and we have the capacity to soothe our own parts, even when they're in a less than desired situation, we start to put it all on the partner. Like you made me feel this way. You you owe it to me to make me feel better. And we're usually coming from a part then that's like,
Heather Shannon (36:08.311)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (36:12.141)
Right.
Heather Shannon (36:15.713)
Right. Right.
Patricia (36:23.214)
critical or accusatory or victimy or whatever. And that often doesn't feel super inviting and sexy, you know, to our partners. So an alternative is like, and it's hard to do, and I'm not going to say I do it all the time, you know, and have this perfect, but you know, like, hey, I'm noticing that a part of me is like,
Heather Shannon (36:24.823)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (36:31.703)
Correct.
Patricia (36:46.734)
not sure if you're really wanting to engage or not right now. It's making up a story about that. I just want to check with you what's happening for you. And so I'm coming from a place that's more calm in my own nervous system because there was kind of a whole calming of the system when we were self-led. And that will probably be more easily heard by my partner and almost invite them into more self-energy and say, I'm just.
Heather Shannon (36:50.881)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (37:05.431)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (37:14.754)
I'm just thinking about I have to walk the dog and I have to do this and I have to do that. Maybe I'd be more available after that. When we know we have parts and we're able to speak for them, it can aid couples communication, especially when there's a lot of vulnerability involved.
Heather Shannon (37:18.467)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (37:29.307)
yeah. Yes. So much. I love when couples are able to get to that point and kind of identify, here's my main parts that are coming up when we are having conflict or stress around sex, or here's my performance anxiety part. It's like you're communicating on this really, it's like a cleaner energy. It's more direct. It's less accusatory and defensive. It's more vulnerable.
It's just like a better wavelength to communicate, more effective wavelength to communicate on. otherwise, when you're communicating from the part, that's usually the dynamic that's happening, why people might reach out to us. It's like, oh, well, my defensive part's happening, or I feel I have a part that feels rejected, or I have a part that feels pressured. And then when the pressured part and the rejected part are communicating instead of the two self energies,
Patricia (38:00.034)
Mm-hmm, right, right.
Heather Shannon (38:27.543)
You know, you're usually not gonna get to where you're wanting to go. Yeah.
Patricia (38:31.232)
Right, right. Yeah. And, you know, it's helpful when people have even a reasonably functional kind of sexual relationship, but say you're having trouble with, say, you know, a libido discrepancy, and then all kinds of parts can get involved in that, you know, big time. Like it gets really at our core, like sense of value. And, know, it's like, if I'm the lower libido person, and then I have parts that feel all this pressure,
Heather Shannon (38:41.494)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (38:46.797)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (38:51.756)
Yep.
Heather Shannon (39:01.314)
Yeah.
Patricia (39:01.4)
to have sex, I might start to feel like my partner only wants me for sex. And sex is like this, this like test or something. And then that I have to have my parts either submit to something they don't really want to do, or they have to do, say something that's gonna like harm the relationship. Like it can be a hard place to be. And similarly, the person who has the higher libido.
Heather Shannon (39:06.121)
Yes.
Heather Shannon (39:10.263)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (39:15.544)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (39:29.644)
has lots of parts there too, right? Like, doesn't my partner find me attractive? Or maybe I'm not, they don't love me anymore. Or they're making me feel like I'm like a predator and I'm not, I just have sexual desire. And so if that person can sue their own parts a bit, like if each person is able to witness their parts and at least tell them, I get what you guys are feeling, like, can you let me speak for you?
Heather Shannon (39:31.298)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Heather Shannon (39:40.791)
Right. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (39:59.159)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (39:59.214)
At least sometimes people can break out of some of the scripts and stories that are fueling like more of the distancing or the resentment.
Heather Shannon (40:05.699)
Right.
Heather Shannon (40:09.901)
Yeah, and that's, I think what you just said, it's like that's the self leadership. know, the self is sort of the spokesperson, the internal leader of the parts. And I think people will find when self is running the show, things go pretty well.
Patricia (40:25.326)
Yeah. And we don't start there, right? So I always like to say, just start where you are. If listeners right now are like relating, but maybe feeling a little, sometimes a little overwhelming, like, oh my God, all these parts, all these people, you know, like, and I always like to like kind of give the big picture, but then bring people back into like, just take a breath right now. You know, just one breath, two breaths. What are you noticing in this moment? You know, what are you feeling in your body? What's tickling you a little like, ooh, that's kind of a fun.
Heather Shannon (40:29.196)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (40:36.939)
I know. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (40:45.153)
Right.
Heather Shannon (40:50.028)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (40:54.69)
thought or a fun vision or what feels a little scary, know, just zero in on like one thing and just starting right where you are and it will, you know, sort of reveal itself over time.
Heather Shannon (40:55.359)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (41:01.271)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (41:07.895)
Yeah, think that's true. And even just that exercise of being where you are, taking a breath, helps you access self-energy. Just being present. That's part of it.
Patricia (41:22.016)
Absolutely. And that could be the hardest thing is pausing. All right. When we're just on a roll, it gets really hard sometimes to just say, hold on, even to say it to yourself, let alone say it to, know, partners like, hold on, I just need a second. I just need to take a breath.
Heather Shannon (41:24.343)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (41:37.421)
Yeah. We don't do that in general as a society much.
But yeah, if more pausing happened, I know.
Patricia (41:43.874)
you know, lots of caffeine, lots of scrolling, lots of going, lots of multi, multiple stimulations at the same time. And it's sort of countercultural to be planted and thoughtful and earthy and, you know, in your body, it's, you know, our bodies are forms of nature. You know, our bodies are like the trees and the animals.
Heather Shannon (41:52.01)
Yeah!
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (42:01.336)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (42:08.771)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's true.
Patricia (42:13.55)
And we are often not connected to our bodies or nature in those ways. And I feel like, know, slowing down is one way to just, oh, like sex isn't just all about all this like flashy stuff I'm seeing out there. It's actually, oh, how am I actually feeling in my own body right now? Like, how am I, you know, who am I in this moment? What feels good in this body right now to me?
Heather Shannon (42:20.138)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (42:29.337)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (42:35.373)
Right.
Heather Shannon (42:39.929)
I know. Yeah. There's there. Yeah, we could go to a whole rabbit hole about that, too, where it's just like, yeah, being in your body and even if there's something you were just saying, I'm like, oh, that's a part two, you know, where it's like, oh, maybe am I afraid to take a pause? Because is that weird? That's not what people normally do. You know.
Patricia (43:03.628)
Yeah, yeah. And if we don't do it much, you know, if there's like, you know, a big pile up of stuff we have been studiously avoiding, you know, and then we decide to like take a look, it might be like, you know, a little bit scary or overwhelming. But the more we do it, we just like that those we get used to that and then we can.
Heather Shannon (43:11.546)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (43:23.352)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (43:28.437)
That's very true. And I think that what I love maybe like the most about IFS is that it's not an approach where we just like bulldoze over painful things or where there's like, there's no like forcing of like, well, now you're have to sit with like 10 out of 10, like trauma feelings and stress. It's like, we respect the system, we respect the parts that maybe aren't ready or are still afraid. And we kind of take our cues from the part.
you know, instead of being like, you know, no part, need to step aside or change that. It's like there's none of that.
Patricia (44:04.908)
Right, right. I love that it's sort of the, for me, it's sort of the Goldilocks approach because there's very directive approaches to sex therapy, sexual problems, which don't take parts into account. Then you have on the other side, like mindfulness approaches that are sort of really about noticing what is, but not really having some ways to then promote healing and growth.
Heather Shannon (44:06.337)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (44:10.393)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (44:14.442)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (44:21.273)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (44:25.271)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (44:33.163)
Right. Right. Right.
Patricia (44:33.462)
it's sort of presence, which is great, but it's sort of like, you know, not like, it may not lead to something transformative. And right. And so with this approach, you kind of have the mindfulness and then invitations to parts. Like no one's getting forced, but like, Hey, what if there was a way for you to not have to carry such a big load? You know, what if you didn't need to carry all the anxiety?
Heather Shannon (44:39.969)
Yeah. Right. It's not very action oriented or challenging.
Heather Shannon (44:48.671)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Heather Shannon (44:57.216)
Yeah.
Patricia (45:01.484)
you know, would you like that better? Like, what if there was some ways we could kind of help different parts sort of, you know, clear some of the stuff they've taken on and maybe your job would get easier.
Heather Shannon (45:01.633)
Right. Right.
Heather Shannon (45:11.233)
Mm-hmm.
It would. Yeah, I think that's a good point. But it is, it's a little counterculture, but it's also just such a beautiful way to relate to your emotions and into your body. I we didn't even get to that whole level of like shifting your parts might also shift tension you've been carrying in your body or digestive issues or sexual performance issues. I mean, there's so many things that can be unlocked through this process. It's very cool.
Patricia (45:15.616)
You
Patricia (45:42.292)
Absolutely. because we're listening to parts, we learn from them what's going on. And for me as a therapist, know, previous training, felt like my job was to figure out what was going on for the client, you know, to analyze the data and then sort of tell them and prescribe certain exercises or something like that. And that's why I love helping.
Heather Shannon (45:47.896)
Mm-hmm.
right.
Heather Shannon (46:00.014)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Right.
Patricia (46:10.88)
Sex therapists learn more about IFS as well as people that just, you know, kind of want to improve their own sex lives. It's useful for both. Because the parts tell us things that we would never guess otherwise. It's almost like a dream state, right? Like where we get things in our dreams that are not what our rational brains would come up with.
Heather Shannon (46:13.13)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (46:25.825)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes, we're accessing the unconscious but in like a very chill process. Yeah.
Patricia (46:33.066)
Yeah. like, yeah, I I, you know, just, help people kind of often zero in on physical symptoms. Maybe they're having like vulvar pain or like, you know, something going on in their, you know, erectile functioning or something like that. And I kind of help them drop their awareness, like to that place and just start bringing curiosity and asking questions. And that it's amazing how even parts of the body can start when we're
Heather Shannon (46:40.941)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (46:47.469)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (46:51.853)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (46:55.512)
Yeah.
Patricia (47:00.288)
available to really pay attention, they'll start showing like, like this started happening. Like when I was fell off my bike when I was 10, I started holding all this tension in my like pelvic floor, you know, and like, what else do you know about that? You know, like I told my mom about it and she didn't care that I had a bike accident and she didn't believe me that my penis hurt or like whatever it was. And like, so there start to be like beliefs.
Heather Shannon (47:02.263)
Mm-hmm
Heather Shannon (47:12.642)
Wow
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (47:23.443)
Yeah. Yeah.
Patricia (47:29.986)
that get held, that support the tension. So whatever it is, there's sort of a story. And when we can really hear it, it can sometimes just spontaneously resolve. It's almost like, no one ever asked. No one ever brought, you whatever asked. And now that actually, gosh, I guess I didn't know I didn't have to hold that tension anymore, but I guess I don't, huh?
Heather Shannon (47:31.351)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (47:42.593)
It is really cool. Yeah.
Heather Shannon (47:50.219)
Yeah. I know. That's what I mean. It's just such like a, you're right. It's the Goldilocks. It's like kind of like flowy, but like moves in a healing direction. You know, that's so cool. So you were saying that you work with professionals and like lay people. And I know you have an upcoming training of some kind coming up. So tell us a little bit about that.
Patricia (48:03.574)
Yeah, yeah.
Patricia (48:16.071)
I do. Sure. So I have an upcoming introduction to IFS through the lens of sexuality. And I offer other programs that help people have one I call Bliss Behold and Lead Your Internal Sexual Systems. But before people can do that, they really need some of the basics of IFS. And so I created this program as sort of a bridge in for people who are curious about this, but don't have IFS training yet.
Heather Shannon (48:23.755)
Mmm.
Heather Shannon (48:31.64)
Mmm.
Heather Shannon (48:36.824)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (48:45.357)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (48:45.954)
just to be able to really, it's like a 20 hour course and I have practice groups and people, you really kind of could read about it in a book, but I don't think you can, it's very hard, I think, to really do this process for yourself or guide someone else without really practicing with another person and getting a little feed feedback. Like the wording really matters. You know, there's certain things that matter. So, so I created this, it's like a
Heather Shannon (48:49.731)
Okay.
Heather Shannon (48:57.165)
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (49:01.229)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, for sure.
Heather Shannon (49:08.313)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (49:12.894)
spread out over four days. So people can really learn some IFS, but it's very unique because it's in the context of sexuality right out of the gate. So the examples are... And so some people already know IFS, but they've never applied it, thought about sexuality. Like, what would a manager do related to sex and sexuality? Maybe I've thought about it in terms of other things.
Heather Shannon (49:21.709)
I love that.
Heather Shannon (49:28.295)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Shannon (49:35.435)
Yeah, and it's so important. I did just like a sex therapy 101 training for the Illinois Counseling Association. it's just so important for therapists to get comfortable talking about sex, you know, because I'm sure you experienced this as well. A lot of the clients that will find me have not felt comfortable with past therapists, you know, so kind of signaling that and letting them know you have this training like really opens up a door. Yeah.
Patricia (49:47.512)
Hmm.
Patricia (50:02.132)
Absolutely. So it's sort of a meeting place for people who are maybe comfortable in the sex realm, but not want to add this amazing lens of IFS. And then some people who have some IFS, but they really haven't approached sexuality in any kind of professional way. And yeah, it's cool. And you always do a lot of personal growth through these things. I think that's kept me going back for all kinds of continuing ed with IFS because I get to
Heather Shannon (50:04.759)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Heather Shannon (50:11.8)
Right.
Heather Shannon (50:16.418)
Right.
Yeah, it's exciting. I love it.
Heather Shannon (50:25.059)
Yeah.
Patricia (50:29.836)
work with my own parts and grow as a person along the way.
Heather Shannon (50:31.129)
That's true. Yeah. That's so cool. So if people are interested in that, how can they sign up or find out more?
Patricia (50:41.632)
Yeah, well, my Instagram is at Patricia Rich Consulting and there's a link tree there so they can find it there. My website is patriciarich.com. I also have a podcast called Self-Let in Bed. And if you go to my website, you can find that there's a freebie. That's the Beats meditation that I shared with you at the beginning of this. There's a lot of free stuff. The six S's of sexual self energy, which we didn't
Heather Shannon (50:45.497)
Okay. Okay.
Heather Shannon (50:54.137)
Cute.
Heather Shannon (51:03.114)
Mm-hmm.
Patricia (51:08.588)
get to today, but that's an elaboration on some of the basic IFS stuff. Lots of freebies at patriciarich.com.
Heather Shannon (51:13.099)
Okay, I love it. Okay, cool. Well, we will link to Patricia's website in the show notes on the YouTube platform in the audio platforms and we'll also link to your Instagram so you guys can find all the goodies. Thank you so much for being here, Patricia. This was a really lovely conversation. And thank you everybody for listening. We'll catch you next week on another episode of Sex for Couples. Bye for now.
Patricia (51:27.583)
Awesome!