Welcome back to Transit Unplugged, where we go inside the minds

of the people moving the world.

I'm Paul Comfort, your host and today's guest is a true

force in public transportation.

It's Michelle Styler, she's Chief of Perran Services at the

Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, or MBTA in Boston.

Michelle manages $162 million budget and leads a team delivering over

1.5 million trips a year in one of the top 10 paratransit or on demand

paratransit systems in the country.

And she's driving real change in paratransit.

Uh, she just renegotiated frontline wages to boost retention, and she does

something that I think is very important.

She gets all of her staff.

To ride the service.

It's actually called the Ride.

So she's getting them, you know, whether you're hr, finance, it, procurement,

legal riding, the service that they're delivering the back office services

and support for, but being out there on the front line, uh, seeing the

passengers and the drivers, it's key.

I think they make it your, everyone is rowing the boat in the same direction, and

that's what she's making sure of there.

She's.

Raising the bar on service and innovation.

Not only that, she's been there for three years at MBTA, but she

spent a full career, 35 years at New Jersey Transit, NJT.

Uh, she did finance policy planning there.

She started off her career thinking she wanted to go into social work

and like we talked about off camera, she kind of ended up doing that and

working in paratransit, leading two state agencies, paratransit operations.

I don't know anyone else that's done that.

And, um.

Off the clock.

She's an avid traveler, a volunteer, an outdoor adventurer, and she told us that

her entire family has been involved.

Her husband, her kids, they've all had jobs in public

transportation, a real family affair.

So today with her, we're gonna dive into, you know, her philosophies,

uh, what she's learned over the years, some, some nuggets of wisdom,

uh, over a long career in trans.

I think you're really gonna enjoy this conversation just

like I did with Michelle Styler.

Let's get into it.

Great to have with us today as our guest, Michelle

Styler, who is Chief of Paratransit Services at MBTA in Boston.

Michelle, thanks for being on the show.

Happy

to be here.

Thank you.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, Michelle, you have one of the toughest jobs in the transit

industry if you ask me, which is leading a big paratransit system.

, So first off, kudos to you for the work you've done there and

also at New Jersey Transit.

Uh, let's kick it off with a little bit about, tell us a little about

your background and, uh, how you got to where you're at, your story.

Sure, happy to.

So I've been in transportation my entire career.

, I started at 18 years old.

, I picked up a part-time ticket agent position in New Brunswick while

attending Rutgers my freshman year.

, One of the most.

Interesting job shortly after that that I held, uh, was as a rail

block operator where I operated the, , hx, , tower, , switches and signals.

, And from there I ended up moving into the planning department.

, Had a lot of great mentors that persuaded me that my place was not

as a social worker, , and that I should remain at New Jersey Transit.

And I hopped around quite a bit.

From planning to policy, finance and budget, and ended my career at

New Jersey Transit and Paratransit.

And,

and, uh, you were managing the paratransit

system for the state, right?

I was, uh, general manager of Paratransit for

New Jersey Transit and New Jersey Transit does cover the entire state.

, Paul Comfort: So you did what, 20, 25 years there and then

you went up to, uh, Boston.

I. Something like that.

You don't, you don't have to reveal your age, but

I guess I should correct that.

So yes, I will fess up.

Uh, I retired after 35 years at New Jersey Transit.

Uh, I was contacted by a recruiter I had never envisioned, , leaving New Jersey.

, But it was an incredible opportunity, uh, and we were really excited.

And I often say that, , in New Jersey.

We kept a close eye on what was going on at the M-B-E-T-A and they had done

some unique and innovative things.

So the idea of moving or ending my career, uh, at, at the

M-B-E-T-A was really exciting.

Yeah.

Now, do you mind if I bring up your husband that he's in transit

too, and how you guys met?

I think that's a great love story.

Uh, you know, sure.

Uh, a little bit more background.

Uh, we were both hired and now I'm really going into dates.

In 1987, uh, I was a ticket agent and he was in law enforcement and

there had been an armed robbery, uh, and he was actually assigned to

investigate, and that's how we met.

Oh, wow.

Married seven years later, and both of our children,

, actually interned at New Jersey Transit, and my son is still working

there as a bus service planner.

So definitely a true transportation family.

Isn't that something?

And he spent his whole career in public transportation, law

enforcement, that kind of a thing.

He did.

He moved from, uh, New Jersey Transit.

He spent a few years at the MTA is when the chiefs of police, I

think it was chief of Operations, uh, and then like, like the New

York City MTA.

, Michele Stiehler: Yes.

New York City, MTA Manhattan.

Okay.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

His office was in, uh, grand Central.

Uh, and then he ended up in San Diego and we had an interesting bicoastal

relationship for a few years.

Oh wow.

But now you're back together up in Boston, huh?

We are reunited, yeah.

That's great.

That's what I got.

A good friend that lives up there now.

Who runs Kolas, who used to run First Transit, he's in Boston now with Kolas.

He's the head of Kolas.

He tells me he loves Boston.

It's a small industry.

Uh, and how can you not love Boston?

Yeah, yeah.

I'm looking forward to coming up there for the after conference, uh, this September.

Uh, I think my wife might come up with me too.

It's uh, she's never really been to Boston.

I said, well, we can ride the train up there, take Amtrak, and it'll be great.

Yeah, well we're,

we're planning a paratransit

technical tour, so hopefully, uh

oh, that's good.

Maybe I should do that.

Yeah, that'd be fun.

All right, , speaking of MBTA and all that, by the way, congratulations.

How long have you been there now at MBTA?

Uh,

just over three years here at the MBTA.

Okay,

gotcha.

So talk to us about the MBTA.

What are some of the big challenges you've had there?

What's been happening in Perran?

And I know you kind of came, covid was still a thing right when you got

there and it kind of became less or so.

Yes.

Yeah.

, Michele Stiehler: So when I first started, , I joined January of 2022.

I think I took a week off in between jobs.

, There were a few people in the office.

There were three people on the floor when I first started.

, It was an interesting time and some of what I was taxed with was emerging

from Covid, uh, and how we recover.

, So some of what we did here was, , through that period of time.

, Invested in employees and I think that it's important, , to

acknowledge, , how necessary it is to, , recognize employees, but also

to make sure that they are, are paid a decent wage and that morale is high.

, So we did two things.

, We revisited the contracts and increased wages.

For our contracted employees.

Uh, and that's to address a, a, a, an industry staffing shortage.

I think we were at some point between 20 to 30% understaffed with drivers.

, We did the same for our call center where we were understaffed, and then I

nearly doubled, , the team from 14 to 25.

, The team of MBTA employees that oversees our contracts.

. Paul Comfort: We should explain that too, that pretty much

everything is contracted out.

Right?

, Michele Stiehler: That actually, that's a great point.

So if I were to take a step back.

Yes.

, We contract out all of our services.

So we have our dedicated service providers which drive, , MBTA owned vehicles.

We have our non-dedicated service providers that we use to operate,

uh, the Ride Flex program, which is the same day demand service.

, And we contract at our operations center, which is a combination of

call center, , and true operations with dispatch and scheduling.

And, and also, uh, did you mention the other day that you

also outsource, a DA certification?

Oh, yes.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

Keeping me on track.

Yes.

That's all right.

So we

outsource and, and this is interesting and novel.

, And another reason why it was exciting to come to the MBTA, , because just

before I arrived, , we partnered with the system wide accessibility team.

, To build, , the mobility Center where we're doing both eligibility

and, uh, travel training.

So that to me is exciting.

It feels like a one stop shop.

I just visited one of those out at, , Vegas, RTC mj Maynard

has it there, and it's actually in our Las Vegas TV show that's

airing right now on, on YouTube.

We show inside that, where they do their training and, and all that.

It's amazing.

So you guys are building one.

We are indeed.

So RTC is our inspiration.

Uh, okay.

And one of our directors actually travel out to Vegas, uh, to see family,

but made sure to do a site visit.

, So that is our inspiration.

There is an opportunity.

The MBTA purchased a building 200 Newport Avenue in Quincy,

and we are going to consolidate.

Our transit operations there.

Track will move there this weekend.

That's our operation center and then we're doing a significant

build out for the mobility center.

And what's exciting about that is it will be on the ground

floor, it will be accessible.

, We are not going to have to retrofit anything we're gonna build out, uh,

as needed, but we hold that picture of RTC, uh, up as our example.

Oh, that's

great.

Yeah, they do a wonderful job out there.

MJ iss amazing.

, I've got another friend who runs mva, which is just outside of Boston.

His name is Noah Berger, and he runs, , a , fair free system there.

Do you guys interact with all the ones around the city or you just

service Just the service area of MBTA.

Well, you know, that, that's another great question.

So we do do transfers to the other RTAs, but I think it's important that

we build out those relationships.

And recently, uh, at apta, uh, I had met with, , a representative from

Ttra, , and we're setting up a site visit to observe their electric vehicles.

Okay.

Um, so we're, we're kind of looking forward to that as well.

Yeah, so you guys contract out everything at Paratransit and like I

was mentioning Brad Thomas with Keolis, I know they run the commuter rail.

Mm-hmm.

I had a good talk with, uh, Ryan Callahan, your boss, the COO there.

Uh, also we talked about that.

By the way, Ryan's amazing isn't, he drives his own train

to work every day, or just

it's,

I mean, you don't get many guys who are the COO who

keep their engineer's license.

Huh.

No, he is fantastic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you, and, uh, there's a couple other guys on your team

that I've been good friends with.

Uh, David Gerstel was your Chief Digital Officer.

He was in the show a couple years ago.

He's still there, right?

, Michele Stiehler: David's still there.

And we did a really fun project, uh, with him, , recently we called it Ride

Along, which was, , an app, I would say an app, a link to track the, , vehicle

progress in real time, uh, that the customers were really happy with.

Good.

And, and you just went through a big, long process on improving

your technology too, right?

We did, , after two years, , we awarded a new software

contract, , and we're really excited what that brings, uh, to our customers.

Particularly.

There's a lot of customer facing, , improvements.

How many like, uh, people ride a day?

Give us a side of the scope.

'cause you have a pretty big pair of transit service there.

So daily we're looking at about 4,000 trips a day.

Okay.

Uh, and we continue to see an increase year over year.

Yeah.

And the costs for some reason just don't come down, do they?

Well, as somebody, yeah.

That's familiar with the paratransit industry.

Uh, we know that, , the cost per trip is expensive and more expensive than any

of the other modes of transportation.

And, you know, it's related to the, the way we, um, deliver our

customers that personalized nature.

Yeah.

So, um, what are you doing with regard to all that?

I mean, are you working on new innovations, new efficiencies,

those kind of things?

, Michele Stiehler: Yes, actually.

So we're doing a, a lot of fun things.

, We're exploring alternate ways, , to deliver trips.

Uh, you know, again, coming right out of that APTA conference, uh, there's a

lot of discussion about micro transit.

, , we like to get to a point now that we have sufficient drivers where we

can explore options about providing, uh, paratransit same day service.

one of the other items is, uh, electric vehicles.

We're really interested in electric vehicles.

Uh, we're tracking and trending that we're in touch with our sister agencies.

Uh, and it said we're gonna do a site visit, but we, we have an electric

vehicle, uh, study underway right now.

So, we're with Michelle Styler.

She is the, uh, chief of Paratransit Services at MBTA.

And when we come back right after this word, we're gonna dive into

her approach toward leadership

Hi, I am Julie Gates, executive producer at Transit Unplugged.

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Thanks for being on this journey with U.S.

And we're back with Michelle Styler.

She's the chief of Paratransit Services at MBTA, one of the largest

paratransit systems in the country.

Uh, Michelle, do you know where you're ranked, like number

wise and the top systems?

I know when I was in Washington, DC managing that, I think we

were ranked fourth or fifth.

We had about seven or 8,000 trips a day at the time.

And then of course, it all.

Went off the maps during Covid and now people are building back.

Where are you guys at?

Do you know?

Rank wise?

So I would wanna say, uh, top 10.

Yeah.

I couldn't use a specific number, but I know we're up there with respect

to the, the trips that we provide.

Yeah.

And we're gonna dive into leadership in just a minute, but let's talk

about the nature of paratransit, uh, which you and I care a lot about.

You know, you, you have spent a lot of your career.

I was just telling you yesterday, I was going to visit.

My old digs here in Queen Anne County, Maryland, meeting with the Director

of transportation there, Steven and, uh, Kathy Willis, who's head of the,

used to be the Department of Aging.

Now it's community services, but I started my career working for a

Department of Aging, working with elderly and people with disabilities,

and it's always been a passion of mine.

It's been a, uh.

Kind of a, a string, a red string through my whole career.

Uh, and I know you care, passionate, but talk to us some about your passion

and, and why perran is important.

It is expensive, but to me, and I think you probably agree with

this, I mean, these are the people that need it the most.

So we really have to make sure we give them the best service, in my opinion.

I.

Uh, you know what, and, and thank you, uh,

for, for an asking that question.

I can't think of anything more important.

Uh, the, it's a, uh, customers that are underserved and it's challenging

and, um, it's really important.

The power transit service.

We, we talk, talk about it as a safety net, uh, for people

that can't use fixed root.

Um.

Ideally, you know, to me, if you were to ask what my goal is, it's

to render paratransit, virtually obsolete, um, by ensuring that

all of the systems are accessible.

The reality is, I know we can't do that, uh, but it's, uh, the service.

Itself, we, the customers will book reservations.

It's a door to door service, so customers get additional assistance

to and from the doors that they will be help with packages.

They will be help helped boarding, , and exiting, uh, the vehicle as well.

, I think it's more important than anything to, , promote paratransit and to let

customers know, uh, that that's an option.

, Also I think it's important for people to understand, , that this isn't, I.

Automatically provided that there's an eligibility process and the eligibility

process is in place to make sure the right customers have access to that service.

, We're doing some great things here with, uh, working collaboratively with some of

the local advocates and advisory boards, and heavily focused now on the customer

experience, which I think is exciting.

, There's nothing more important to me than listening.

, To our customers and to the public about what their needs are, but we're, we're

really doing some fun things here and, and happy to incorporate the customer feedback

into our decisions moving forward.

Let's talk about, , your approach toward leadership and

passion you have behind what you do.

Obviously, you're very passionate about it.

You've, you've now led two state agencies, uh, paratransit.

I don't know actually anyone else who's done that, by the way.

Michelle, who, you know, you were the head of the whole state paratransit

and now MBTA is a state agency, even though just like MTA in Baltimore was,

we're a state agency even though we primarily serve the Baltimore region.

, What drives you?

What motivates you?

You know, when you get up in the morning, what do you, what are you feeling like,

yeah, I want to go into work today.

You're really asking some great questions here.

So I, I can tell you that, , the team and the service we provide motivates me and I

think it's a, a really unique department.

, And we're more connected to our customers through the nature of our service.

I. , We know our customer's names, we know their addresses, where they travel to.

We can connect directly with them.

We often interact with them.

, So I think that the nature of our service keeps us really engaged and connected.

, I'm going to overlap a bit here, but with respect to leadership, um,

I believe in leading by example.

I get out there, I take trips, I interact with the customers.

I push every team member, they're all required to get out in the field

and interact with our customers.

Oh, that's good.

Yeah,

it, it's, it's really important and I find that sometimes,

, team members can get bogged down in meeting their numbers and their goals and

forget that connection to our customers and the service we're delivering.

I think our team is really good at doing that.

So when I wake up every day, I am eager to get in and, and just.

Be better than the day before.

My next book is gonna be on finding your X Factor, which is, uh, where

your interests and abilities intersect.

And that, I believe is the sweet spot to kind of reach your highest

potential and to wake up every day with a fire in the belly.

And I remember as we were talking about my first job as a transportation

coordinator for the Department of Aging, we only had 15 vans, you

know, a small service in this county.

But I went home, I remember my twenties every day.

Feeling like warm inside my heart is the only way I can describe it, because I,

I knew what the work I did today meant.

And actually it was because, and I've talked about this a lot in my speeches.

It's because I was closest to the customers I. That job put me the

closest to the customers in any job I've ever had the rest of my career.

And I love the fact that you say that's key, getting you not only you out there,

but your staff, people who are in it, finance, procurement, legal, pr, they

all need to, I believe, and I'm wonder, it's wonderful that you're doing this.

Uh, they need to experience what it is the service you're providing.

Do you agree?

I absolutely agree.

, And more often than not, when I, I take a trip, I will ride anonymously.

I think it's important that nobody knows who is on board that vehicle

and then provide discreet feedback.

, And sometimes, uh, I ride, uh, and simply acknowledge that, just the

incredible work that those drivers do.

That frontline,

yeah, let's talk about that.

Yeah.

Talk about the difference.

I mean, you know, I've run.

You know, big agencies, MTA, the 11th, largest in the country.

And, um, I've seen the fixed route drivers, the train drivers, but

man, the paratransit drivers talk to us about what a paratransit

driver actually does, what their job description is, the reality of it.

You know what, it, it definitely takes a special kind of person.

, And being out there with the drivers is a lot of fun because more recently, I

think it was about three weeks ago, I was on board, uh, and we took the time

because the driver had time available in their schedule to park and chat about what

their best day looked like, what their worst day looked like, why they loved it.

It was somebody that was on the job for over 20 years.

They loved helping people.

They enjoyed seeing the same customers day to day.

They enjoyed the exchanges with the customers about their,

their, their family members.

Uh, the doctor's appointment, they're going to the groceries.

They like helping them to the door.

, But I really find that, um, what I hear and, and it echoes my feeling,

which is it's a very fulfilling job.

Yeah.

You build a connection.

Hey, I want to jump into a little bit of a leadership

approach, uh, and as a leader, what's been your biggest lesson from

the past few years, would you say?

And and what advice would you give to others navigating

change in public transportation?

Because clearly change is afoot in the industry out of Washington and,

and with technology and with all the, all the different priorities now

that we have to, to serve the public.

What are some of the lessons you've learned and what are

some advice you would give?

Wow.

Okay.

Well, when I think about, uh, the long career.

Uh, I've seen all types of leadership, , and I think that that allowed me

to refine and define who I am and what type of leader I want to be.

Uh, and from my perspective, it's certainly about empowerment.

Uh, there is nothing more exciting to me than being surrounded by.

My talented and brilliant team and brainstorming and creative problem

solving, , I like having a comfortable space where everybody can contribute.

, That being said, I don't have a problem making those hard decisions.

, And.

Certainly supporting my team as far as navigating changes.

, I've been in the industry a long time and, uh, with administrations there often

come a lot of changes, uh, as for their, their patients as we work through this.

Um, as for, uh.

Agility and nimbleness to adapt quickly based on, on new requests.

And it's also because I've been in the business a long time, you can almost

anticipate, uh, what direction we're headed in so I can prepare the team.

Uh, I know this is going to be coming, there's going to be an ask for data.

Let's get ahead of this.

Let's develop , a deck to explain what it is we do and what our needs are.

, But I really feel that my, , career has come full circle here.

And I'm a far better leader now, uh, having learned from the past.

That's wonderful.

You know, it reminds me of that story, uh, of a, a ship at sea.

There was a ship at sea and the engine went down with all the

passengers on it, and so no one on board could fix the engine.

They called for help.

They brought in a guy by helicopter who landed.

He went down, he checked the whole engine out.

He took out a small hammer.

He looked, and then he.

Tapped in a certain spot and the engine came on and they, uh, they

said, wow, you know, it's wonderful.

How much do we owe you?

He said, $10,000.

And they were like, $10,000.

How could it be so much?

It only took you five minutes and you just tapped in one place?

He said, well, it's $5.

, For the tap, it's $9,995 for knowing where to tap.

And that is what comes from the wisdom and experience, I think,

of working in the industry of, uh, making decisions like you've had

to do in your leadership positions.

Absorbing the blow back because we know there's a law of thermodynamics

that says, you know, for every action there's equin opposite reaction.

And then learning to adjust the thrust so that you minimize the Perry and all that.

And, uh, these are the, the wisdom that is forged in the crucible of

thousands of smaller decisions.

Talk about that some.

You're right.

So I, I actually, my role, I see my role as, uh, an advocate for the

team, , to ensure that they have the resources that they need to do the job.

, I think of myself also as, , the pitch person.

You know, that we, we group together determine what we need and I have to shop.

That hitch.

, And also to your point, and I couldn't think of a better story.

I really enjoyed that.

, But to your , point is that they have to do it without worrying, without the

concerns that they have to know that I'm there, that I support them, and there will

be no blowback that I will address it.

Interesting.

That's good.

So, so you allow your employees as long as they keep you informed and have

their heart in the right place and, uh, to make mistakes without kind of

sawing off the limb underneath them.

Yes.

And again, it's, I, I think it's having been in the industry a long time and,

and refining, , and improving on what I have learned and what I have experienced.

But I do think it's important that they have a safe place that they can think.

, It's important that I'm always informed, , and I believe in building consensus.

But, , certainly when decisions have to be made, uh, I'm

quite capable of making those.

But I really think it's important, uh, that we have individual contributors

as well as team contributors.

That's wonderful.

Well wrap it all up for us.

Give us some closing thoughts you might have about where you think we're

headed as an industry, , especially the paratransit industry, where

you think we should be headed.

Where are we headed?

Give us kind of a forward looking vision.

Hmm.

Well, um, that, that's a great question.

So again, I had mentioned that I was away at a conference, uh, and

I saw some truly inspiring things.

One of the things I was excited about , were, , autonomous vehicles.

Which we're in Austin.

, Where do I think we're headed?

Uh, I think, uh, I, I feel very positive about, uh, the focus on

accessibility, building new systems, retrofitting existing systems.

I would like to believe that we're going to shift from, , shift more into

a training and education and information mode in paratransit, , because there

will be more accessible transportation.

Okay, so we're thinking more along the lines of transportation as a service, uh,

where a customer identifies, or a member of the public identifies where they wanna

travel, uh, based on their preferences.

Uh, and the best options are, are put together, uh, and, and posited

to the customer for them, uh, to make the, to select the best option.

Yeah.

That is an exciting future, isn't it?

Yeah.

I think we have a lot.

A lot of exciting things in our future.

I'm always an optimist.

I see the glass half full.

I think that we have an opportunity now, no matter what happens in Washington.

To focus on the core essentials of creating the wonderful transit system,

which in my mind, the four cornerstones are safety, efficiency, reliability,

and world class customer service.

And I think if we focus everything in our agencies and our services

around those core essentials, we're gonna be successful.

We're gonna make people understand the value that we bring, you know,

commercially, environmentally.

Uh, the personal services that we provide, the economic development, uh, and we

have the opportunity, I think, to do that even more so now in the future.

I think you've got a great example of it there, Michelle, and I appreciate

you, uh, being our guest today on the show and sharing with us some of your

passion, , for providing outstanding paratransit to people with disabilities.

Thank you for being on the show.

Thank you, Paul.

It was a pleasure.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode

of the Transit Unplugged Podcast.

We're so glad you're here.

My name is Julie Gates.

I'm the executive producer of the show, and our goal is to create

programs that promote the great things going on in the transit industry

by providing you with behind the scenes access with industry executive

leadership so we can work together to find innovative industry solutions.

We would love to have you be a part of the Transit Unplugged community by

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Head to the show notes to find the link.

Thanks for listening to Transit Unplugged with Paul Comfort, our favorite transit

evangelist, and we'll catch you next week.

Thanks for tuning in.