1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,930 It's like going to like the finest sushi restaurant in the world, that 2 00:00:04,029 --> 00:00:05,470 it's like a perfect experience, right? 3 00:00:05,470 --> 00:00:08,080 There's nothing that takes away from what you're doing. 4 00:00:08,975 --> 00:00:12,100 And then you don't realize until the end like, oh, you know, you didn't have to 5 00:00:12,105 --> 00:00:13,690 think about where were the chopsticks. 6 00:00:13,690 --> 00:00:16,450 You didn't have to think about when the next piece came. 7 00:00:16,455 --> 00:00:19,000 You didn't have to think about any of these other things. 8 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,850 So a lot of our page speed experiences like that too, where, we wanna 9 00:00:22,870 --> 00:00:27,790 remove all of these small impediments to having the best experience. 10 00:00:32,790 --> 00:00:36,780 Welcome to the e-Commerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:42,060 The E-Commerce podcast is all about helping you deliver e-commerce wow. 12 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,670 And to help us do just that I am chatting with today's guest, William 13 00:00:47,670 --> 00:00:53,040 Belk, on how to boost your bottom line with page speed optimization. 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:53,970 We're gonna get into that. 15 00:00:53,990 --> 00:00:56,600 Probably a few of the little bits and bobs knowing William. 16 00:00:56,900 --> 00:01:00,230 Uh, but before we do, before we dive into our conversation, 17 00:01:00,740 --> 00:01:04,785 let me share our podcast pick. 18 00:01:04,965 --> 00:01:08,475 Oh yes, some previous episodes that I think you are gonna enjoy. 19 00:01:08,475 --> 00:01:13,665 So check out how SEO ranking can improve your customer experience with the 20 00:01:13,665 --> 00:01:14,187 fantabulous. 21 00:01:14,187 --> 00:01:16,275 Nick Trueman, who is 22 00:01:16,275 --> 00:01:19,125 an absolute legend and actually, uh, a good friend. 23 00:01:19,125 --> 00:01:20,205 So do check that out. 24 00:01:20,210 --> 00:01:23,085 Also, fixing the biggest problem with Shopify. 25 00:01:23,475 --> 00:01:27,285 Uh, I have traffic but no sales was a great episode with, uh, Elle McCann. 26 00:01:27,465 --> 00:01:29,055 Still the biggest problem people have with Shopify. 27 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:30,860 Uh, they've got traffic but no sales. 28 00:01:31,190 --> 00:01:35,870 Now you can access our podcast pick and our entire podcast archive for free 29 00:01:35,870 --> 00:01:39,000 on our website ecommercepodcast.net. 30 00:01:39,020 --> 00:01:43,850 Plus, if you sign up for our newsletter, we'll send you the links from our 31 00:01:43,850 --> 00:01:48,000 podcast pick along with the notes and any links from today's show with William. 32 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,650 They all get delivered straight to your inbox at no cost to 33 00:01:51,650 --> 00:01:53,180 you, which is pretty amazing. 34 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:53,990 We know it is. 35 00:01:54,530 --> 00:01:54,950 Now. 36 00:01:55,845 --> 00:01:57,015 The sponsor section. 37 00:01:57,015 --> 00:01:57,915 Dun, dun, dun. 38 00:01:58,155 --> 00:02:01,365 Are you struggling to grow your e-commerce business? 39 00:02:01,455 --> 00:02:06,165 Do you feel like you are constantly spinning wheels trying to figure 40 00:02:06,165 --> 00:02:08,265 out what to focus on next? 41 00:02:08,265 --> 00:02:11,805 Well, I have been there and I know how frustrating it can be. 42 00:02:11,805 --> 00:02:16,515 That's why I am super excited about what the e-commerce cohort does, 43 00:02:16,845 --> 00:02:18,525 uh, it's great to be a part of it. 44 00:02:18,825 --> 00:02:21,195 Um, and it is the sponsor of the show. 45 00:02:21,225 --> 00:02:24,345 Now e-commerce cohort helps e-commerce businesses like yours 46 00:02:24,345 --> 00:02:28,545 deliver an exceptional customer experience that drives results. 47 00:02:28,545 --> 00:02:33,725 And to help you get started, uh, we've got a free resource for 48 00:02:33,725 --> 00:02:35,825 you called E-Commerce Cycles. 49 00:02:35,830 --> 00:02:37,285 Now it's a mini course. 50 00:02:37,565 --> 00:02:40,085 It's not gonna take you too long, but it's a mini course that walks you 51 00:02:40,085 --> 00:02:45,785 through our proven framework for building a successful e-commerce business. 52 00:02:45,785 --> 00:02:49,865 I'm gonna show you the specific steps I take in my own e-commerce 53 00:02:50,225 --> 00:02:53,975 businesses so you can see exactly how to put those concepts into 54 00:02:53,975 --> 00:02:59,645 practice in your own business and e-commerce cohort is built on. 55 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,840 This idea, this framework. 56 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,600 So getting an understanding of that will help you determine whether 57 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,100 or not cohort is good for you. 58 00:03:06,220 --> 00:03:09,160 And like I say, the training is completely free. 59 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:14,330 Uh, and you can sign up right now at ecommercecycles.com. 60 00:03:14,350 --> 00:03:17,540 I say sign up, saying that out loud doesn't make sense cuz you don't 61 00:03:17,540 --> 00:03:18,890 even need to put an email address in. 62 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:19,550 It's right there. 63 00:03:19,550 --> 00:03:20,360 You just click play. 64 00:03:20,780 --> 00:03:24,390 Uh, but that's all there ecommercecycles.com. 65 00:03:24,410 --> 00:03:29,360 So do go over there and access this free training and get started today. 66 00:03:29,570 --> 00:03:33,110 It's time to start delivering e-commerce wow to your customers. 67 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,480 With the help, of course, of e-commerce cohort. 68 00:03:37,410 --> 00:03:40,110 Okay, so that's the show sponsor. 69 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,170 Who is today's guest? 70 00:03:43,170 --> 00:03:48,960 Well, today we are chatting with William Belk, who is a software developer and SEO 71 00:03:48,965 --> 00:03:53,220 expert with over 20 years of experience. 72 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,330 He is the creator of five very popular Shopify apps. 73 00:03:57,570 --> 00:04:02,040 And the founder of Page Doctor, a free tool for testing page 74 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,200 speed and optimizing performance. 75 00:04:04,230 --> 00:04:06,540 He has also written rapid reviews. 76 00:04:06,540 --> 00:04:07,770 We're gonna get into all of this. 77 00:04:07,830 --> 00:04:08,310 Oh yes. 78 00:04:08,310 --> 00:04:13,380 So, uh, William and I are gonna chat about how to boost your online success. 79 00:04:13,385 --> 00:04:16,350 We're gonna be talking about these Shopify apps, why its written and what 80 00:04:16,350 --> 00:04:18,450 they do, and how they're gonna help you. 81 00:04:18,630 --> 00:04:20,910 So William, welcome to the show, man. 82 00:04:20,915 --> 00:04:21,570 Great to have you. 83 00:04:21,570 --> 00:04:22,200 How are you doing? 84 00:04:22,980 --> 00:04:23,640 I'm doing great. 85 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:24,300 Thanks for having me. 86 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:24,810 I appreciate it. 87 00:04:24,810 --> 00:04:28,230 I'm so, so impressed by your intro Radio One quality. 88 00:04:29,700 --> 00:04:29,760 Yeah. 89 00:04:29,820 --> 00:04:30,330 That's great. 90 00:04:30,900 --> 00:04:31,110 Right. 91 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,950 Actually in the UK there is, uh, there's a, there's a radio 92 00:04:34,950 --> 00:04:36,060 station called Radio One. 93 00:04:36,065 --> 00:04:36,780 BBC Radio One. 94 00:04:36,990 --> 00:04:37,320 Right. 95 00:04:37,530 --> 00:04:37,680 I know. 96 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:37,950 Okay. 97 00:04:37,950 --> 00:04:38,340 Well, cool. 98 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,470 Did you also know that there is a dj, a radio one DJ called Matt 99 00:04:43,530 --> 00:04:46,020 Edmundson, uh, which is slightly scary. 100 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:46,560 Oh, I've heard him. 101 00:04:46,740 --> 00:04:47,700 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 102 00:04:47,700 --> 00:04:48,120 I've heard him. 103 00:04:48,170 --> 00:04:48,440 Yeah. 104 00:04:49,070 --> 00:04:49,280 Yeah. 105 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:50,330 So you know who I'm talking about. 106 00:04:50,330 --> 00:04:54,050 And, uh, our surname is spelled all my, almost identically. 107 00:04:54,350 --> 00:05:00,500 Um, and on Twitter, uh, I still, it is funny on Twitter, I still get people 108 00:05:00,500 --> 00:05:03,440 connecting with him, me, on Twitter, asking me if I can play certain songs 109 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,210 on the radio, which I find quite funny. 110 00:05:05,215 --> 00:05:05,730 That's so cool. 111 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:06,090 Yeah. 112 00:05:06,630 --> 00:05:12,110 So he must get, uh, I've never actually met, uh, my namesake on the radio, uh, 113 00:05:12,140 --> 00:05:17,675 but he must get the, um, The bizarrest of requests about e-commerce coming through 114 00:05:17,675 --> 00:05:19,305 on his Twitter feed is like, why is this? 115 00:05:19,975 --> 00:05:20,265 Yeah. 116 00:05:20,270 --> 00:05:20,465 Yeah. 117 00:05:20,465 --> 00:05:21,185 That would be funny. 118 00:05:21,305 --> 00:05:22,385 Yeah, that would be really funny. 119 00:05:22,385 --> 00:05:23,465 So, well, thank you for the compliment. 120 00:05:23,675 --> 00:05:28,565 Uh, and if BBC Radio is listening, I'm happy to be, uh, probably a radio two. 121 00:05:28,625 --> 00:05:30,905 I think I'm more radio two than radio, but, uh, yeah. 122 00:05:33,005 --> 00:05:36,215 So whereabouts in the world are you, how come you listen to Radio One? 123 00:05:37,415 --> 00:05:39,905 Uh, just, you know, get around. 124 00:05:39,905 --> 00:05:40,475 I get around. 125 00:05:40,685 --> 00:05:40,775 Yeah. 126 00:05:41,715 --> 00:05:42,765 I spent some time over there. 127 00:05:42,855 --> 00:05:43,125 Yeah. 128 00:05:43,245 --> 00:05:43,695 Okay. 129 00:05:43,875 --> 00:05:44,295 That's awesome. 130 00:05:44,475 --> 00:05:45,525 It's a bit like that. 131 00:05:45,525 --> 00:05:50,985 Um, oh, that song you, I get around, I get around, uh, who's at the Beach Boys. 132 00:05:50,985 --> 00:05:51,467 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 133 00:05:51,472 --> 00:05:53,685 So there's, I've got that song now playing in the back of my head. 134 00:05:53,985 --> 00:05:54,275 Yeah. 135 00:05:55,275 --> 00:05:55,455 Yeah. 136 00:05:55,460 --> 00:05:58,245 If you're, if you're listeners in Europe, imagine me, I'm probably 137 00:05:58,245 --> 00:06:04,125 like that, you know, at the, so I'm currently in LA.I split my time 138 00:06:04,125 --> 00:06:06,555 between Las Vegas and Los Angeles, so, 139 00:06:06,585 --> 00:06:07,785 okay, nice. 140 00:06:07,905 --> 00:06:09,645 And then in LA right by the beach. 141 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:12,090 I try to surf every once in a while. 142 00:06:12,820 --> 00:06:13,635 When I'm not working. 143 00:06:13,865 --> 00:06:14,755 It's gotta be a hard life. 144 00:06:15,785 --> 00:06:17,415 It's gotta be a hard Yeah, it's pretty tough. 145 00:06:17,415 --> 00:06:18,105 Pretty tough. 146 00:06:18,675 --> 00:06:23,565 We had a great guest on the show called Jared Mitchell, um, who's based down 147 00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:27,555 in San Clemente, which is, oh yeah, I think about 45 minutes south of la. 148 00:06:27,915 --> 00:06:29,145 He's always surfing as well. 149 00:06:29,150 --> 00:06:30,075 You two should hook up. 150 00:06:30,075 --> 00:06:31,185 He's big into e-comm. 151 00:06:31,295 --> 00:06:32,895 Uh, he's big into surfing. 152 00:06:33,385 --> 00:06:34,975 And I've actually stayed at his house. 153 00:06:34,975 --> 00:06:36,085 Great guy actually. 154 00:06:36,145 --> 00:06:36,895 And he's been on the show. 155 00:06:36,895 --> 00:06:37,915 So do check out his episode. 156 00:06:37,915 --> 00:06:38,455 Jared Mitchell. 157 00:06:38,755 --> 00:06:39,325 Really cool guy. 158 00:06:40,315 --> 00:06:43,165 So you're in LA you've got some really interesting posters on the 159 00:06:43,165 --> 00:06:46,555 wall behind you, you know, for those that are watching the video. 160 00:06:46,675 --> 00:06:51,895 Um, very colorful, very graphic sort of, uh, are they record album covers? 161 00:06:51,895 --> 00:06:54,115 Are they what's going on in the wall behind you there? 162 00:06:54,475 --> 00:06:56,815 Yeah, there's a few, few album covers up there. 163 00:06:56,815 --> 00:06:58,315 Got your, got your new order. 164 00:06:59,235 --> 00:07:00,185 Ah, yeah. 165 00:07:00,375 --> 00:07:01,665 That's got the world in motion, right? 166 00:07:02,235 --> 00:07:02,445 Yeah. 167 00:07:02,450 --> 00:07:03,975 A couple couple other Gems. 168 00:07:04,155 --> 00:07:04,905 Gems up there. 169 00:07:04,905 --> 00:07:04,906 Yeah. 170 00:07:04,911 --> 00:07:05,025 Yeah. 171 00:07:05,235 --> 00:07:05,925 Fantastic. 172 00:07:06,045 --> 00:07:06,525 Fantastic. 173 00:07:06,825 --> 00:07:08,955 So is that what you do when you're not busy, sort of, 174 00:07:09,015 --> 00:07:11,025 uh, Shopify app development? 175 00:07:11,030 --> 00:07:14,145 You are, you are listening to vinyl LPs. 176 00:07:14,625 --> 00:07:19,725 Ah, you know what, sadly, I think about 10 years ago I got rid of most of my records. 177 00:07:19,845 --> 00:07:23,115 No, it's Spotify's unbeatable. 178 00:07:23,385 --> 00:07:24,075 It's unbeatable. 179 00:07:24,075 --> 00:07:24,785 I, yeah. 180 00:07:25,035 --> 00:07:27,465 And I still have, I still have a bit of a collection, but. 181 00:07:28,185 --> 00:07:28,755 What are you gonna do? 182 00:07:28,755 --> 00:07:32,595 You know, you're busy and Spotify, Spotify's a good product. 183 00:07:32,655 --> 00:07:33,615 I can't, can't lie. 184 00:07:33,915 --> 00:07:36,165 Less vibes, but good product. 185 00:07:36,165 --> 00:07:37,425 Yeah, it's interesting. 186 00:07:37,430 --> 00:07:40,665 You know, we have, um, we have a young lady who's, who's started 187 00:07:40,665 --> 00:07:41,895 living with us for a few months. 188 00:07:41,895 --> 00:07:45,855 She's just, we've got a reasonably sized house and so we take in, you know, 189 00:07:46,155 --> 00:07:47,685 waves and strays every now and again. 190 00:07:47,985 --> 00:07:51,945 And, um, there's this young lady living with is, uh, Jasmine, she's, 191 00:07:52,515 --> 00:07:57,285 uh, in her early twenties and I was walking past her room the other day. 192 00:07:57,855 --> 00:08:01,305 Um, cause I was doing some renovation on the house and she had the door open 193 00:08:01,305 --> 00:08:02,685 and do you know what I saw on her desk? 194 00:08:02,685 --> 00:08:03,705 Which really surprised me. 195 00:08:03,705 --> 00:08:05,925 I appreciate this has got nothing to do with e-commerce, but you 196 00:08:05,925 --> 00:08:07,275 know, we've started down this road. 197 00:08:07,275 --> 00:08:08,465 Let's see what, yeah, let's out please. 198 00:08:08,465 --> 00:08:08,705 Yeah. 199 00:08:09,105 --> 00:08:10,875 Um, e-commerce is boring, let's be honest. 200 00:08:15,005 --> 00:08:16,815 We talk about it cuz we asked you, you know. 201 00:08:17,205 --> 00:08:17,415 Yeah. 202 00:08:17,415 --> 00:08:18,075 Something like that. 203 00:08:18,075 --> 00:08:18,285 Yeah. 204 00:08:18,705 --> 00:08:21,705 Uh, the, the, the not so boring e-commerce podcast. 205 00:08:21,705 --> 00:08:25,275 Maybe I should just, anyway, on Jasmine's desk, uh, was a record player. 206 00:08:25,570 --> 00:08:29,050 A young 22 year old girl with a record player listening to vinyls. 207 00:08:29,110 --> 00:08:30,460 I was like, what is going on? 208 00:08:30,610 --> 00:08:31,750 Uh, it doesn't make any sense. 209 00:08:32,260 --> 00:08:34,510 It's like I'd been thrown back to the 1980s. 210 00:08:35,370 --> 00:08:35,980 Yeah, she does. 211 00:08:36,570 --> 00:08:36,860 Yeah. 212 00:08:36,865 --> 00:08:37,240 Yeah. 213 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:37,690 Absolutely. 214 00:08:37,780 --> 00:08:38,380 Absolutely. 215 00:08:39,250 --> 00:08:40,900 So, page speed optimization. 216 00:08:40,905 --> 00:08:41,060 Right? 217 00:08:41,650 --> 00:08:43,460 Uh, let's talk about that. 218 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,120 Um, Because I, I mean, it's interesting when we make this 219 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,620 quip that e-commerce is boring. 220 00:08:49,950 --> 00:08:54,060 I imagine for most people listening to the podcast, they're gonna be going, well, if 221 00:08:54,060 --> 00:09:00,750 e-commerce is boring, perhaps one of the most boring parts of e-commerce would be 222 00:09:00,750 --> 00:09:04,480 page speed, uh, optimization, especially if I'm honest with you, William. 223 00:09:04,650 --> 00:09:06,570 I think probably most people don't understand it. 224 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:07,050 Right? 225 00:09:07,710 --> 00:09:07,800 Sure. 226 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,160 We've all gone to payable, uh, Payable, dunno what that is. 227 00:09:12,250 --> 00:09:16,750 Uh, Google page, speed insights, put our web URL in and it's come back with 228 00:09:16,750 --> 00:09:18,370 a number, which is usually not good. 229 00:09:18,790 --> 00:09:20,500 Um, and told us, you know, we need, 230 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:21,880 especially for Shopify. 231 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:22,180 Yeah. 232 00:09:22,180 --> 00:09:23,500 It's almost always not good. 233 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:23,800 Yeah. 234 00:09:24,730 --> 00:09:26,710 Well this is, this is part of the problem, isn't it, I suppose. 235 00:09:26,715 --> 00:09:29,790 And, and thinking about Shopify, because if you are on Shopify, 236 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,260 um, I suppose, how much control do you actually have over page speed? 237 00:09:37,210 --> 00:09:43,545 Um, So that is somewhat of a trick question, so, well, I'm glad 238 00:09:43,545 --> 00:09:46,665 asked you early then you kinda opened up Pandora's box, right? 239 00:09:46,670 --> 00:09:47,435 So mm-hmm. 240 00:09:47,665 --> 00:09:49,905 There's a few, a few issues. 241 00:09:49,905 --> 00:09:54,915 So a lot of people, a lot of people have trouble differentiating 242 00:09:54,915 --> 00:09:59,955 between like perceived page speed and rendering performance and like, 243 00:09:59,985 --> 00:10:04,125 uh, the totality or like holistic page speed performance, right? 244 00:10:04,305 --> 00:10:04,725 Mm-hmm. 245 00:10:04,810 --> 00:10:06,735 So when we go to a tool like. 246 00:10:07,965 --> 00:10:09,345 Google page speed insights. 247 00:10:10,485 --> 00:10:12,255 It gives us so much information. 248 00:10:12,255 --> 00:10:16,665 And unless you're re, I mean, even for me, I get lost in Google 249 00:10:16,665 --> 00:10:17,865 page speed insights, right? 250 00:10:17,985 --> 00:10:18,075 Mm-hmm. 251 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,675 So you get all these different numbers, you don't really know what they mean. 252 00:10:21,675 --> 00:10:25,485 They have all these like vague, you know, cls and then like other 253 00:10:25,485 --> 00:10:29,415 types of like, you know, measures that we don't really understand. 254 00:10:29,505 --> 00:10:34,995 So that's kind of the beginning of the page speed problem. 255 00:10:35,670 --> 00:10:38,400 In terms of like, you know, you have like a problem solution space. 256 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:43,350 So the solution space for most people as it relates to page speed is really hazy 257 00:10:43,380 --> 00:10:45,240 and like gray and hard to understand. 258 00:10:45,690 --> 00:10:51,060 And then the problem with Shopify is that Shopify is so good and 259 00:10:51,060 --> 00:10:53,160 they have so many friendly tools. 260 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:54,421 Everything's like one click, right? 261 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:59,760 So everyone thinks that, okay, I can set up a Shopify store and you 262 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,780 know, to, to run a Shopify store, you can run a 10 million a year store. 263 00:11:04,425 --> 00:11:05,805 For like 300 bucks. 264 00:11:06,195 --> 00:11:06,285 Mm-hmm. 265 00:11:06,615 --> 00:11:08,205 And, which is incredible. 266 00:11:08,535 --> 00:11:08,865 Yeah. 267 00:11:08,895 --> 00:11:13,185 But then in order to get our performance and rendering profile where we want, 268 00:11:13,815 --> 00:11:16,065 we actually have to invest time. 269 00:11:16,395 --> 00:11:21,465 So when you asked how much, you know, uh, how much control do we have? 270 00:11:21,470 --> 00:11:26,955 We have all the control we want, but if we assume that we're just gonna do one, click 271 00:11:26,955 --> 00:11:31,815 everything to fix, you know, our page speed problem, it's just not gonna happen. 272 00:11:31,815 --> 00:11:32,625 It's not realistic. 273 00:11:32,625 --> 00:11:32,865 Right. 274 00:11:32,865 --> 00:11:37,605 So then, You know, I say, I have kind of a saying is that you're only 275 00:11:37,605 --> 00:11:42,075 as slow, or excuse me, you're only as fast as your slowest app, right? 276 00:11:42,075 --> 00:11:47,715 So a lot of these stores have 10, 20, 30 apps installed in their store. 277 00:11:47,715 --> 00:11:52,385 And then that's one of the biggest problems is that those, those 278 00:11:52,415 --> 00:11:56,775 apps are allowed to inject scripts and assets into our stores. 279 00:11:57,435 --> 00:12:03,330 And then, That becomes like this mountain of, you know, background 280 00:12:03,330 --> 00:12:09,240 requests and CSS and job, like additional JavaScript resources and delayed stuff. 281 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:16,050 So then, um, you know, we, we end up, if we, if we use the traditional like Shopify 282 00:12:16,050 --> 00:12:22,770 one click mentality, then we end up really deep in this hole, this performance hole. 283 00:12:22,770 --> 00:12:24,720 So everyone says like, oh, Shopify is slow. 284 00:12:24,750 --> 00:12:25,800 Shopify is not slow. 285 00:12:26,175 --> 00:12:32,265 You know, but if we add all these third party applications and we, we just click 286 00:12:32,265 --> 00:12:35,025 them and think that they're not gonna have an effect in for a performance, 287 00:12:35,355 --> 00:12:39,645 a performance effect, then we're kind of like misguided in that way. 288 00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:44,195 So then a lot of what I focus on with my apps and just 289 00:12:44,415 --> 00:12:45,645 everything I do is performance. 290 00:12:45,645 --> 00:12:50,655 So, you know, I started, uh, a tool that I think you've 291 00:12:50,655 --> 00:12:52,225 seen, which is pagedoctor.com. 292 00:12:52,245 --> 00:12:54,735 So it's a free page analysis tool, and then Yep. 293 00:12:55,500 --> 00:12:58,860 I was tired of using Google Page speed Insights because it takes 294 00:12:58,860 --> 00:13:00,630 me so long to figure it out. 295 00:13:00,630 --> 00:13:04,290 So I built my own page testing tool that gives me like that first pass 296 00:13:04,290 --> 00:13:06,120 analysis of what I want to look at. 297 00:13:06,125 --> 00:13:06,240 Mm-hmm. 298 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:07,620 Which is like the big stuff. 299 00:13:07,625 --> 00:13:13,350 So most shop owners can make massive strides just by 300 00:13:13,355 --> 00:13:14,490 fixing fundamental problems. 301 00:13:14,690 --> 00:13:20,190 So like they'll have like maybe 10 lines of code that are just 302 00:13:20,635 --> 00:13:22,350 done improperly that Yeah. 303 00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:26,220 Cost, cost them 600 milliseconds or like 0.6 seconds or something. 304 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:26,790 Yeah. 305 00:13:26,820 --> 00:13:28,320 Um, so that's like a good start. 306 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,590 And then the, the next step is just to evaluate all the apps that 307 00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:35,640 we're using to try to figure out which ones are hurting us the most. 308 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,070 So like a lot of people have apps installed on their store that they're 309 00:13:40,070 --> 00:13:44,610 not using, and they don't even realize that those apps still have like a direct 310 00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:47,340 line to inject scripts into their store. 311 00:13:47,730 --> 00:13:54,540 So like a good example would be, Like product reviews apps, sometimes people try 312 00:13:54,540 --> 00:13:59,520 three or four different product reviews apps, and then they just pick the one 313 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,460 that they like and then they forget to uninstall the ones that they don't like. 314 00:14:03,150 --> 00:14:09,930 So like Yotpo, as an example, will inject, I don't know, 120, 140 K into 315 00:14:09,930 --> 00:14:13,260 your page, like 10 to 15 requests when you're not even using it. 316 00:14:13,845 --> 00:14:14,025 Wow. 317 00:14:14,055 --> 00:14:16,425 So you may not even, it may be installed, but you don't have the 318 00:14:16,425 --> 00:14:17,715 modules installed on your site. 319 00:14:18,165 --> 00:14:20,985 They'll still just be lighting your site up with all these background requests. 320 00:14:20,985 --> 00:14:25,245 And that all takes browser resources and slows everything. 321 00:14:25,275 --> 00:14:27,225 Like it slows stuff down that people don't even realize. 322 00:14:27,225 --> 00:14:28,125 Like scrolling. 323 00:14:28,455 --> 00:14:28,695 Yeah. 324 00:14:28,725 --> 00:14:30,795 You know, um, resizing. 325 00:14:30,795 --> 00:14:36,345 Or like every time you do something cool or movement based on the page, 326 00:14:36,705 --> 00:14:39,435 then the browser has to reinterpret the whole entire page again. 327 00:14:39,735 --> 00:14:42,795 So then the more stuff that we have, you know, you get that kind of 328 00:14:42,795 --> 00:14:49,380 like, Just that, that non-Japanese or German pro precision feel. 329 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:49,530 Mm-hmm. 330 00:14:49,530 --> 00:14:52,710 You know, you get that kind of like vending machine feel. 331 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:54,250 Yeah. 332 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:56,160 It's a good way to describe it. 333 00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:58,050 And it is, it is interesting. 334 00:14:58,050 --> 00:15:01,810 I mean, you mentioned this, you know, um, that the amount of people 335 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:09,945 that have redundant apps on their Shopify store, um, I don't remember 336 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,980 ever talking to somebody about their Shopify site and they didn't have 337 00:15:13,980 --> 00:15:16,530 redundant apps on there, on their store. 338 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,270 You know, they've not gone through and done that. 339 00:15:18,270 --> 00:15:19,380 I need to take these out. 340 00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:23,040 And so what I'm hearing you saying, William, is actually by taking those 341 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,560 out, just do, by doing that due diligence, this is before you've even 342 00:15:25,565 --> 00:15:27,330 checked on the ones you actually do use. 343 00:15:27,870 --> 00:15:32,370 You're gonna increase your page speed and increasing your page speed 344 00:15:32,370 --> 00:15:35,340 is, um, well let's get into that. 345 00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:37,110 Actually, let's start a bit, a bit more headline. 346 00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:43,485 So, Page speed optimization is something I don't think many people 347 00:15:43,485 --> 00:15:46,275 talk about, that everyone talks about conversion rate optimization 348 00:15:46,275 --> 00:15:47,685 and all this sort of fancy stuff. 349 00:15:47,690 --> 00:15:51,375 So we don't talk much about page speed optimization, partly because 350 00:15:51,375 --> 00:15:53,535 I think a lot of people think it's outside of their control. 351 00:15:54,225 --> 00:15:56,425 Um, so. 352 00:15:58,035 --> 00:16:02,925 What is page speed optimization and why, why should I care? 353 00:16:03,255 --> 00:16:09,255 Um, about, you know, as a, a store and as surely my iPhone and my desktop 354 00:16:09,260 --> 00:16:11,025 now they're super uber powerful. 355 00:16:11,025 --> 00:16:14,565 Do I even, do I even, I mean, broadband is what gigabit now, 356 00:16:14,565 --> 00:16:17,535 so do I, do I even need to care? 357 00:16:19,125 --> 00:16:19,515 Sure. 358 00:16:19,515 --> 00:16:24,015 So we can kind of address that in a couple different ways, that question. 359 00:16:24,095 --> 00:16:24,515 Mm-hmm. 360 00:16:26,535 --> 00:16:27,945 We can talk about the simple stuff. 361 00:16:28,365 --> 00:16:31,395 So like the measures based stuff or the numbers based stuff. 362 00:16:31,395 --> 00:16:31,725 Right. 363 00:16:31,725 --> 00:16:36,765 So if we improve page speed, we reduce bounce rate. 364 00:16:37,425 --> 00:16:40,845 So like customers that come and just leave because they get frustrated 365 00:16:40,845 --> 00:16:42,165 or bored or whatever, right? 366 00:16:42,345 --> 00:16:44,615 So they won't each, each visitor is not like us. 367 00:16:44,985 --> 00:16:48,255 So we have our own, if we have our own store or clients. 368 00:16:50,655 --> 00:16:53,175 We are not the target customer, right? 369 00:16:53,175 --> 00:16:53,235 Yeah. 370 00:16:53,805 --> 00:16:57,945 So that's a good place to start thinking about page speed is that we 371 00:16:57,945 --> 00:17:02,595 look at our shop 20 times a day or you know, if we're like marketer, we're 372 00:17:02,595 --> 00:17:04,035 always looking at the landing pages. 373 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,405 If we're a developer, we're always looking at the features. 374 00:17:07,155 --> 00:17:10,485 So the measures based stuff is all. 375 00:17:11,730 --> 00:17:12,930 Really our bottom line. 376 00:17:12,930 --> 00:17:18,480 So if, if, and it also depends on, on, on store size, so how much like 377 00:17:18,540 --> 00:17:20,010 traffic and revenue we're doing. 378 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:20,130 Mm-hmm. 379 00:17:20,370 --> 00:17:25,470 Let's say we're, you know, whatever, a 5 million shop, 1 million to 5 million. 380 00:17:25,710 --> 00:17:31,710 So improved page speed reduces bounce rate, it increases conversion 381 00:17:31,710 --> 00:17:35,520 rate, it can help with seo. 382 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:40,320 You know, it kind of, that's a hard rabbit hole to go down, but, Generally 383 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,700 speaking, page speed does help SEO across the board and SEO ranking. 384 00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:50,250 And we know that page speed improves page quality score for ad buying. 385 00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:52,320 So that's the big thing. 386 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,360 So if we're buying a lot, a lot of ads, we want our pages to be as fast as possible 387 00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:58,711 because we're competing with other people. 388 00:17:58,780 --> 00:18:01,770 So when, when Google or different ad networks. 389 00:18:02,130 --> 00:18:04,950 Or Facebook, they'll check our, they'll check our pages and give 390 00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:06,810 our page and ad quality score. 391 00:18:06,810 --> 00:18:10,950 Obviously, you know, key phrases and content have a big part of that. 392 00:18:10,950 --> 00:18:11,040 Mm-hmm. 393 00:18:11,310 --> 00:18:12,930 But page speed is also a factor in that. 394 00:18:12,990 --> 00:18:18,060 So, you know, if Google has two pages with identical, you know, 395 00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:22,290 practically identical content, who do they want to give that ad to? 396 00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:24,600 They want to give it to the faster page. 397 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:24,870 Right? 398 00:18:24,930 --> 00:18:25,230 Yeah. 399 00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:29,640 So those are like the easy, those are the easy things, right? 400 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:30,540 But then we have. 401 00:18:31,015 --> 00:18:36,900 You know, page speed almost as like a spiritual component, right? 402 00:18:36,905 --> 00:18:37,260 Mm-hmm. 403 00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:37,770 Okay. 404 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:38,190 Yep. 405 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,150 If we, if we have, it's hard to, it's hard to think about, right? 406 00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:47,460 So every single millisecond of our experience with every page is affected 407 00:18:47,465 --> 00:18:49,130 by the page rendering performance. 408 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,390 So like, not just the page speed. 409 00:18:51,390 --> 00:18:52,680 So the page speed is one thing. 410 00:18:53,130 --> 00:18:55,590 So we have like page speed, which is how fast it loads, right? 411 00:18:55,670 --> 00:18:56,090 Mm-hmm. 412 00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:56,930 And then we have. 413 00:18:57,450 --> 00:18:59,100 The general performance of the webpage. 414 00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:04,170 So if we install all of these apps, they're putting stuff in the background, 415 00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:08,840 background requests, and then they're injecting these big giant blobs of HTML. 416 00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:13,860 So one thing that you see in page Doctor and Google Page speed 417 00:19:13,865 --> 00:19:15,070 insights is like the DOM element. 418 00:19:15,780 --> 00:19:17,370 The number of DOM elements, right? 419 00:19:17,910 --> 00:19:25,680 So if we have 500 dom elements versus 5,000, and I see 5,000 all the time. 420 00:19:27,135 --> 00:19:30,345 Every time the browser does things, it has to, a lot of times 421 00:19:30,345 --> 00:19:33,405 it'll have to go through every single element in the entire tree. 422 00:19:33,405 --> 00:19:36,105 So the, in the browser, it's just like a giant object. 423 00:19:36,885 --> 00:19:38,385 And then we have nodes on the object. 424 00:19:38,835 --> 00:19:42,855 So every time we redraw the page, then we have to go in the browser, 425 00:19:42,855 --> 00:19:47,325 has the browser's brain or like the, the processor has to know where 426 00:19:47,325 --> 00:19:50,115 everything is and go through everything and make sure nothing changed. 427 00:19:50,145 --> 00:19:52,425 Cuz everything in your, in your browser has like a size. 428 00:19:53,325 --> 00:19:55,155 You know, it'll have like some sort of container. 429 00:19:55,365 --> 00:20:01,065 It'll have like a x, Y, um, it'll have all these styles on it, you know, oh, 430 00:20:01,070 --> 00:20:02,445 does it need a border, does it not? 431 00:20:03,495 --> 00:20:08,865 So everything that we do to the page that increases that cognitive load 432 00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:10,785 on the browser affects everything. 433 00:20:10,785 --> 00:20:13,185 So when we scroll down the page, like I said, we have that like 434 00:20:13,185 --> 00:20:14,565 vending machine feel, right? 435 00:20:14,745 --> 00:20:15,135 Yeah. 436 00:20:15,165 --> 00:20:17,985 Versus like that really smooth like ball bearing feel. 437 00:20:19,185 --> 00:20:23,370 So all these apps that we're installing, It's hard for people. 438 00:20:23,370 --> 00:20:27,990 They don't think that every single time someone scrolls, that's part of, you 439 00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:30,420 know, that, that, um, I don't know. 440 00:20:30,425 --> 00:20:33,090 I, I don't know other way to call it, but spiritual, it's like this 441 00:20:33,090 --> 00:20:34,590 experience that you can't explain. 442 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:34,890 Mm-hmm. 443 00:20:35,130 --> 00:20:37,590 And you don't know why you just had the best experience ever. 444 00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:41,341 It's like going to like the finest sushi restaurant in the world, 445 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,170 that sometimes it's about, it's like a perfect experience, right? 446 00:20:46,170 --> 00:20:48,780 There's nothing that takes away from what you're doing. 447 00:20:49,675 --> 00:20:52,800 And then you don't realize until the end like, oh, you know, you didn't have to 448 00:20:52,805 --> 00:20:54,390 think about where were the chopsticks. 449 00:20:54,390 --> 00:20:57,150 You didn't have to think about when the next piece came. 450 00:20:57,155 --> 00:20:59,700 You didn't have to think about any of these other things. 451 00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:04,410 So a lot of our page speed experiences like that too, where, we wanna remove 452 00:21:05,130 --> 00:21:09,390 all of these small impediments to having the best experience that we can have. 453 00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:13,830 And then that is kind of like, that's what creates this nice, 454 00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:15,360 nice customer experience, right. 455 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:17,910 Yeah, no, I, I get that. 456 00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:21,240 I, I, I like your restaurant analogy actually. 457 00:21:21,330 --> 00:21:26,490 Um, you, you don't always, the, the consumer doesn't go to a website thinking, 458 00:21:26,495 --> 00:21:30,690 oh, this has got a really good page speed optimization system going on here, 459 00:21:31,380 --> 00:21:34,390 but it does go to the website going, I really enjoyed being on that website. 460 00:21:35,010 --> 00:21:37,200 Uh, it's just that unconscious bias, isn't it? 461 00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:44,850 So if page speed optimization is primarily about load time, Right. 462 00:21:44,970 --> 00:21:47,820 And there's all these things that, so for Shopify it's easy 463 00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:49,050 cuz we can pick on the apps. 464 00:21:49,050 --> 00:21:52,050 If it's not a Shopify site, Google page speed. 465 00:21:52,350 --> 00:21:55,830 Um, insights tends to pick on JavaScript, especially on news. 466 00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:58,170 JavaScript and a few other bits and bobs, isn't it? 467 00:21:58,170 --> 00:21:59,760 And it, it, it picks all these things out. 468 00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:06,030 Um, so we've, whether we're on Shopify or not, we've got some unused code on 469 00:22:06,035 --> 00:22:09,660 our website that we just need to not be lazy in cleanup or at least the, the web 470 00:22:09,660 --> 00:22:11,310 developers need to not be lazy in cleanup. 471 00:22:12,690 --> 00:22:16,080 So if web speed optimization is predominantly about loading my 472 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:22,740 speed as about loading my site as fast as possible, is there, like, 473 00:22:24,210 --> 00:22:26,400 is there like a minimum ideal time? 474 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,140 Have I gotta hit like a three second load or two second load, or six second load? 475 00:22:30,140 --> 00:22:33,060 What's the, what, what am I trying to aim for here? 476 00:22:34,530 --> 00:22:34,920 Yeah. 477 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,790 I, I think that the. 478 00:22:37,665 --> 00:22:41,385 That's one of the problems with Google Page speed insights is that number, you 479 00:22:41,385 --> 00:22:42,975 know, the score that we get is mm-hmm. 480 00:22:43,215 --> 00:22:45,975 No one has any idea what that means, right? 481 00:22:47,055 --> 00:22:48,915 Like, we just have absolutely no idea. 482 00:22:48,915 --> 00:22:52,755 So even an idea in, in your example where you mentioned we have 483 00:22:52,755 --> 00:22:54,645 different, uh, network speeds, right? 484 00:22:55,435 --> 00:22:58,635 So half a second versus one and a half seconds. 485 00:22:59,235 --> 00:23:00,405 We have no idea. 486 00:23:00,855 --> 00:23:02,625 We have no context to assign to that. 487 00:23:02,625 --> 00:23:04,575 So then we have our own browser at home. 488 00:23:05,130 --> 00:23:08,070 Whatever internet connection we have, we might have like a fiber connection. 489 00:23:08,550 --> 00:23:11,460 We might have a slow, you know, DSL connection. 490 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:19,380 So what I like to focus on, so the, I brought up page doctor before, so mm-hmm. 491 00:23:19,620 --> 00:23:23,050 Which is at pagedoctor.com, free page analysis tool. 492 00:23:23,550 --> 00:23:26,190 Um, I just focus on the simple stuff. 493 00:23:26,190 --> 00:23:30,720 So like, do we have JavaScript errors on the page? 494 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,610 Oh, shoot, dropped my pen. 495 00:23:32,970 --> 00:23:35,070 So do we have JavaScript errors on the page? 496 00:23:35,610 --> 00:23:38,760 Um, that's a simple one that we can look for that we don't need 497 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,830 to assign any numbers to, right? 498 00:23:40,835 --> 00:23:40,980 Mm-hmm. 499 00:23:41,060 --> 00:23:44,340 And then the other one is like, do we have blocking JavaScript tags? 500 00:23:45,030 --> 00:23:46,410 That's a huge one, right? 501 00:23:46,410 --> 00:23:53,130 So when our page loads, a lot of times the way that the page is loaded, the developer 502 00:23:53,130 --> 00:23:55,170 needs a library, like j like jQuery. 503 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:55,680 Mm-hmm. 504 00:23:55,950 --> 00:23:58,650 So then they'll say, okay, I don't want anything to happen until 505 00:23:58,650 --> 00:23:59,940 after this library is loaded. 506 00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:04,830 And what that means is that the, the browser hits that line of code and says, 507 00:24:04,830 --> 00:24:06,360 okay, this is an essential resource. 508 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:09,390 And then it loads every single bit of it into memory, 509 00:24:10,170 --> 00:24:12,930 processes it, and then moves on. 510 00:24:13,380 --> 00:24:15,360 So blocking requests are like a huge thing. 511 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:15,720 Right. 512 00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:20,820 And then your example of all these different assets. 513 00:24:21,270 --> 00:24:26,370 Um, so you like the, we wanna reduce the number of everything. 514 00:24:26,895 --> 00:24:30,285 And then sequence it in a way that makes the most sense. 515 00:24:30,645 --> 00:24:30,735 Mm-hmm. 516 00:24:30,975 --> 00:24:36,195 So, like, you know, our apps, um, look for apps that are more performant 517 00:24:36,465 --> 00:24:37,665 is like a simple one, right? 518 00:24:37,755 --> 00:24:46,755 So, um, so my, my product reviews app for Shopify, which is called Rapid Reviews, it 519 00:24:47,145 --> 00:24:51,985 is the most hardcore performance oriented app that you can get for product reviews. 520 00:24:52,005 --> 00:24:55,125 No one is even in my Galaxy of existence. 521 00:24:55,275 --> 00:24:58,425 And then this is a hard thing for people to explain, but my whole entire 522 00:24:58,425 --> 00:25:01,065 app is one request with 12k payload. 523 00:25:01,125 --> 00:25:01,515 That's it. 524 00:25:01,605 --> 00:25:08,145 And that gives you questions, um, obviously reviews, questions, deep search 525 00:25:08,145 --> 00:25:11,115 on everything, filtering all of that. 526 00:25:11,205 --> 00:25:15,255 And so I can do it in one request with 12 K. 527 00:25:15,255 --> 00:25:17,385 It's possible I do it. 528 00:25:17,445 --> 00:25:18,945 It's, that's what my app does. 529 00:25:18,945 --> 00:25:23,130 So then if you compare that to an app like Yotpo, So Yotpo will sometimes make 530 00:25:23,130 --> 00:25:31,650 25 to 30 requests on your page, 300 to 500 K to load less features than I have. 531 00:25:32,430 --> 00:25:35,490 Um, so then, you know, all of these things are possible. 532 00:25:35,495 --> 00:25:38,670 So what we want to do is look at all the fundamentals. 533 00:25:38,910 --> 00:25:41,970 So first we started the code, you know, JavaScript errors, blocking script 534 00:25:41,975 --> 00:25:44,040 tags, how much CSS are we loading? 535 00:25:44,140 --> 00:25:44,560 Mm-hmm. 536 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,880 So what you said is people are loading a lot of stuff that they don't use. 537 00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:49,680 That's like a massive problem. 538 00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:54,945 So you have like, Your core theme css, it'll be like theme css, right? 539 00:25:55,455 --> 00:26:02,685 It'll be whatever, 400 K of css when you only need like 40 lines for your 540 00:26:02,685 --> 00:26:03,945 homepage or something like that. 541 00:26:03,950 --> 00:26:07,665 So you can break up all these pages, or you can break up all your css mm-hmm. 542 00:26:07,995 --> 00:26:08,775 And load less. 543 00:26:08,775 --> 00:26:10,545 So every CSS file is the same exact thing. 544 00:26:10,545 --> 00:26:15,225 When the browser hits that c s s, it knows that it's essential for everything 545 00:26:15,225 --> 00:26:18,705 below it or around it puts it into memory. 546 00:26:19,425 --> 00:26:20,145 Then moves on. 547 00:26:20,145 --> 00:26:26,595 So then if we have 20 apps that do this too, so the 20 apps load all the 548 00:26:26,595 --> 00:26:31,755 background processes and then they load all their CSS assets as like style tags. 549 00:26:31,755 --> 00:26:32,865 So they just inject them in. 550 00:26:33,435 --> 00:26:36,885 The browser, hits that and says like, oh, okay, now I have 551 00:26:36,885 --> 00:26:37,995 to figure out the page again. 552 00:26:37,995 --> 00:26:38,325 Right. 553 00:26:39,405 --> 00:26:45,165 Um, so these are like the, you have to just work from the bottom and then go up. 554 00:26:45,165 --> 00:26:46,455 And then images are another one. 555 00:26:46,455 --> 00:26:48,495 So like, are we lazy loading our images? 556 00:26:48,885 --> 00:26:49,455 Um, 557 00:26:49,995 --> 00:26:52,125 you know, what do you mean when you say lazy loading? 558 00:26:53,715 --> 00:26:56,775 So, that's a good question. 559 00:26:56,895 --> 00:26:57,615 How do I say? 560 00:26:57,825 --> 00:27:01,815 Um, so there's two, two different ways to lazy load an image. 561 00:27:01,815 --> 00:27:05,955 So lazy load means as you scroll down the page, so on the page we have the fold. 562 00:27:05,955 --> 00:27:06,045 Mm-hmm. 563 00:27:06,555 --> 00:27:09,885 Which is everything we can see when the browser opens or like the phone opens. 564 00:27:10,155 --> 00:27:10,425 Yep. 565 00:27:10,455 --> 00:27:14,295 Which would be like the preliminary load screen area is the fold. 566 00:27:14,985 --> 00:27:17,805 So then anything below the fold we want to defer. 567 00:27:18,825 --> 00:27:21,735 Uh, for, for imagery specifically, we want to defer that until 568 00:27:21,735 --> 00:27:22,785 we scroll down and hit it. 569 00:27:22,825 --> 00:27:23,245 Mm-hmm. 570 00:27:23,505 --> 00:27:24,225 Then there's two ways. 571 00:27:24,225 --> 00:27:31,725 There's old way, which is generally using a library like lazy sizes, um, which 572 00:27:31,725 --> 00:27:35,325 is, you know, a third party dependency you can call it, or a plugin dependency. 573 00:27:35,595 --> 00:27:40,455 And then the browsers now have a new way, which is a lazy or a loading attribute. 574 00:27:40,455 --> 00:27:42,195 So it's like loading equals lazy. 575 00:27:43,005 --> 00:27:49,155 So a lot of our themes are older or we may have a website that's totally custom 576 00:27:49,215 --> 00:27:51,855 that was built three or four years ago. 577 00:27:52,455 --> 00:27:54,075 Um, I mean, you know how it is, right? 578 00:27:54,075 --> 00:27:55,665 Like if it's working, don't touch it. 579 00:27:55,665 --> 00:27:55,995 Right? 580 00:27:56,090 --> 00:28:00,345 So, uh, so we wanna like lazy load our images. 581 00:28:00,375 --> 00:28:02,985 That's like a really simple one that we could do. 582 00:28:03,285 --> 00:28:04,765 Um, yeah. 583 00:28:04,765 --> 00:28:10,365 And then it takes, the other thing that I encourage people to do is 584 00:28:10,365 --> 00:28:14,550 work with their developer, like, develop, or excuse me, that's a bad 585 00:28:14,550 --> 00:28:20,310 word, but B, build relationships with developers that you trust, right? 586 00:28:20,610 --> 00:28:24,330 Don't you know, you could use fiber and find somebody for $5, which is, 587 00:28:24,390 --> 00:28:28,410 may work really well in some cases, but you want people that you can depend, 588 00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:32,040 you can depend on over time and that you trust and that are gonna tell you 589 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,595 the real deal and how, you know, how much effort it's gonna take to get to 590 00:28:35,595 --> 00:28:37,425 where we want to be with our sites. 591 00:28:37,425 --> 00:28:37,665 Right? 592 00:28:37,905 --> 00:28:38,325 Yeah. 593 00:28:38,685 --> 00:28:42,435 Well, no, I, I, I, it's interesting you mentioned about developers, because 594 00:28:43,545 --> 00:28:47,145 I've always done this thing in the past where occasionally I'll go and check 595 00:28:47,145 --> 00:28:49,365 our site on Google Page Speed Insights. 596 00:28:49,365 --> 00:28:52,575 Now I'll walk into the developers and I'll go, look, we've got a rubbish score. 597 00:28:52,595 --> 00:28:55,905 And the developers, the first thing they'll do is gimme 10 reasons why page 598 00:28:55,905 --> 00:28:59,535 speed Insights is wrong, and why I should ignore them because of X, Y, and Z. 599 00:28:59,535 --> 00:28:59,625 Yeah. 600 00:29:00,825 --> 00:29:04,605 And so you, you can quickly get caught up in this. 601 00:29:05,205 --> 00:29:06,555 Um, Google's wrong. 602 00:29:06,555 --> 00:29:09,615 I'm right cycle, which I, 603 00:29:10,935 --> 00:29:13,695 how does, how, how does that work for people generally? 604 00:29:14,505 --> 00:29:14,865 Yeah. 605 00:29:15,075 --> 00:29:16,245 Well, it's interesting, isn't it? 606 00:29:16,245 --> 00:29:19,875 Because I, I'm, but I think it's interesting if you are a site owner, 607 00:29:20,685 --> 00:29:22,305 And you are talking to your developer. 608 00:29:23,025 --> 00:29:26,565 Um, it's very hard to argue with a developer because they usually 609 00:29:26,565 --> 00:29:28,395 know more about coding than you do. 610 00:29:28,605 --> 00:29:33,105 Um, and they can, they can come up with all kinds of plausible sounding reasons 611 00:29:33,105 --> 00:29:36,855 as to why that doesn't really matter or that doesn't really matter over there. 612 00:29:37,455 --> 00:29:40,905 Um, and so I think it's sort of easily dismissed. 613 00:29:40,905 --> 00:29:43,245 It's a hard, maybe it's just me. 614 00:29:43,275 --> 00:29:44,145 I Do, you know what I mean? 615 00:29:44,145 --> 00:29:46,875 I, it's one of those where I think it's a hard thing to argue. 616 00:29:47,820 --> 00:29:52,170 Whether developer on Page Speed Insights, um, part of me thinks it's 617 00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:55,710 because the developers are actually genuinely quite lazy and don't want to, 618 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,270 you know, it, it, I think optimizing for speed is not a sexy thing. 619 00:30:00,450 --> 00:30:01,680 Um, you know, we, we, well, 620 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,830 I'll, I'll push back on you a little bit. 621 00:30:04,835 --> 00:30:08,370 So maybe here's another way to think about it, is that most brands, 622 00:30:08,970 --> 00:30:12,450 esp if we, if we look at Shopify specifically, everyone is so used to 623 00:30:12,450 --> 00:30:14,100 everything being done with one click. 624 00:30:14,105 --> 00:30:14,160 Yeah. 625 00:30:14,190 --> 00:30:16,410 So like, think about how many apps there are now. 626 00:30:17,385 --> 00:30:19,755 That, uh, they say, they say they can improve your page 627 00:30:19,755 --> 00:30:21,345 speed score by like 20 or 40. 628 00:30:21,705 --> 00:30:25,005 All you have to do is click the button and install the app, right? 629 00:30:25,635 --> 00:30:34,275 And most brand owners or marketers or you know, budget allocators, if we wanna call 630 00:30:34,275 --> 00:30:41,595 them, don't want to hear that it's gonna take 15 hours to improve our page speed. 631 00:30:42,570 --> 00:30:42,840 Right. 632 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,620 So I think some of the developers are probably conditioned to think that people 633 00:30:46,620 --> 00:30:48,900 are very, very cost, cost conscious. 634 00:30:49,260 --> 00:30:49,470 Yeah. 635 00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:55,410 So if they say, um, I mean, to go back, circle back a little bit. 636 00:30:56,130 --> 00:30:58,260 Google's page speed score is never wrong. 637 00:30:59,270 --> 00:30:59,620 Right. 638 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,820 It may be inconveniently low, but it's never, it's never wrong. 639 00:31:06,270 --> 00:31:06,450 Yeah. 640 00:31:06,450 --> 00:31:06,750 Yeah. 641 00:31:07,290 --> 00:31:11,550 Yeah, so then that's, that's one thing you can say is if you go to the developer and 642 00:31:11,550 --> 00:31:14,970 you say, Hey, we want to increase our page speed score, they may be actually giving, 643 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,720 um, obviously some developers are not the best communicators and, and likewise with 644 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,340 the marketers or brand owners, right? 645 00:31:23,340 --> 00:31:25,441 They kind of generally speak two different languages, right? 646 00:31:25,446 --> 00:31:25,640 Mm-hmm. 647 00:31:25,950 --> 00:31:30,520 So they may be saying in a roundabout way, yes, I can help you with this page 648 00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:36,120 speed score, but I'm gonna need, you know, two more full days of focusing on it. 649 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,870 Or they can say, they might be telling you, Hey, you've installed these 650 00:31:39,870 --> 00:31:44,250 garbage apps and I told you not to install them, and I told you there were 651 00:31:44,250 --> 00:31:46,380 better ones, but you didn't listen. 652 00:31:46,650 --> 00:31:49,500 So now we have a score of 12. 653 00:31:49,505 --> 00:31:49,840 Mm-hmm. 654 00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:55,170 On mobile, you know, so then part of it is building the trust with the developer 655 00:31:55,170 --> 00:32:01,110 and say, Hey, I want to increase my page speed score because I want to spend less. 656 00:32:01,260 --> 00:32:03,300 You can, you can, you can do it two ways. 657 00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:08,670 One is, I want you to help me because you are committed to excellence and 658 00:32:08,670 --> 00:32:10,170 you are an expert at what you do. 659 00:32:10,170 --> 00:32:10,740 So help me. 660 00:32:10,740 --> 00:32:13,510 Tell me what, tell me what we really need to do, and then mm-hmm. 661 00:32:13,595 --> 00:32:17,160 You can also sell that to other people in the organization. 662 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,350 From the marketing side is like, I want to spend less on ads, right? 663 00:32:22,050 --> 00:32:26,490 I want to have the best customer experience that I can have as 664 00:32:26,490 --> 00:32:30,390 a brand owner or marketer, or merchandiser, you know, e e-commerce, 665 00:32:30,390 --> 00:32:31,830 merchandiser, or whatever it is. 666 00:32:32,430 --> 00:32:36,720 And then build that type of relationship instead of saying, you know, oh, 667 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:37,800 I'm gonna focus on the number. 668 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,770 And then the developer will be like, yeah, well, I don't know. 669 00:32:40,770 --> 00:32:41,580 It's fine. 670 00:32:41,940 --> 00:32:42,690 We have all these apps. 671 00:32:42,690 --> 00:32:46,740 Cuz the developer knows in certain cases that the, the store owner 672 00:32:47,310 --> 00:32:53,550 or the marketer, a lot of times they don't really listen, right? 673 00:32:53,610 --> 00:32:53,700 Mm-hmm. 674 00:32:53,940 --> 00:32:55,650 And they don't really want to have the conversation. 675 00:32:55,650 --> 00:32:57,510 They just want to say like, oh, it's bad. 676 00:32:57,540 --> 00:32:58,770 And then you be like, okay, cool. 677 00:32:58,770 --> 00:33:00,780 It's, you know, if you, we really want to get this. 678 00:33:00,780 --> 00:33:01,290 We're gonna have to. 679 00:33:01,650 --> 00:33:05,730 Like, rip out this app and then switch to this app, and then, okay, 680 00:33:05,730 --> 00:33:08,880 let's change the theme because this theme is garbage, where we have all 681 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,890 these like fade ins and fade outs. 682 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,170 We have all these like effects. 683 00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:16,380 Okay, well can we remove this like carousel? 684 00:33:17,130 --> 00:33:19,940 This carousel has a, like a, uh, plugin dependency. 685 00:33:20,210 --> 00:33:22,290 They'll be like, no, we have to have the carousel. 686 00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:24,030 We'll, have you tested it? 687 00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:25,080 Do you know that it helps? 688 00:33:25,290 --> 00:33:26,130 No, but I like it. 689 00:33:26,550 --> 00:33:27,570 And the customers like it. 690 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:33,300 Well, did you check, like, are you sure that the customer loves the carousel 691 00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:37,650 or could you just have like, could it have scroll instead of like the wacky 692 00:33:37,650 --> 00:33:43,710 button with the like, you know, and then building a relationship or being 693 00:33:43,710 --> 00:33:49,470 open-minded as a brand owner really helps the developers help us, right? 694 00:33:49,710 --> 00:33:49,800 Yeah. 695 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,770 Yeah, no, I totally get that. 696 00:33:52,770 --> 00:33:56,950 And I, I like your wacky button with, uh, sound effect. 697 00:33:56,970 --> 00:34:00,450 Everybody knows it, you know, it's on every e-commerce page, nd I 698 00:34:00,450 --> 00:34:05,820 guarantee you that that thing right there is like a hundred or 200 K of 699 00:34:06,930 --> 00:34:12,210 not very optimized JavaScript, just to have something on a homepage with 700 00:34:12,210 --> 00:34:16,170 like nine tiles that you can't see, you know, they're off to the right. 701 00:34:16,180 --> 00:34:16,600 Mm-hmm. 702 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,165 You know where they are, and then, Like, does a customer even use that? 703 00:34:21,165 --> 00:34:22,815 And do you even want them to use that? 704 00:34:22,815 --> 00:34:27,105 Like get them to a collection page, get them to the product page, allow 705 00:34:27,105 --> 00:34:31,785 them to buy, don't keep interrupting them with all of these things. 706 00:34:31,790 --> 00:34:36,345 And then constantly saying, as a brand owner, like it has to be 707 00:34:36,345 --> 00:34:38,565 my way because I know everything. 708 00:34:38,565 --> 00:34:39,885 It's like you don't even test anything. 709 00:34:39,885 --> 00:34:44,475 Like most of these people are like, you know, all the different 710 00:34:44,475 --> 00:34:45,885 like psychological things, right? 711 00:34:45,885 --> 00:34:46,815 They're emotional. 712 00:34:46,815 --> 00:34:48,630 They're insecure. 713 00:34:48,630 --> 00:34:50,279 I mean, I'm insecure about everything I do. 714 00:34:50,279 --> 00:34:50,489 Right? 715 00:34:50,489 --> 00:34:54,569 Whenever somebody says something to me about my apps, I'm like, oh man, like, 716 00:34:54,569 --> 00:34:58,020 you know, you know how many hours I spent on this or all the different things. 717 00:34:58,020 --> 00:35:03,029 But it's, you know, it's like unless we test it, you know, what do we know? 718 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:03,420 Right? 719 00:35:03,540 --> 00:35:03,990 Yeah. 720 00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:03,991 Yeah. 721 00:35:04,170 --> 00:35:04,799 No, that's fair enough. 722 00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:11,069 So the, um, so site speed, the, the ability to get 723 00:35:11,069 --> 00:35:12,420 something fast on the phone. 724 00:35:12,420 --> 00:35:15,090 You mentioned earlier that it is connected. 725 00:35:15,525 --> 00:35:19,154 Um, with the page quality score by ad advise. 726 00:35:19,154 --> 00:35:23,985 Now, um, the reason I, I want to dig into this a little bit is we 727 00:35:23,985 --> 00:35:29,565 have recently switched companies, um, who do our Facebook ads. 728 00:35:29,805 --> 00:35:30,075 Okay? 729 00:35:30,075 --> 00:35:35,235 So our Facebook ad company has changed, and one of the first things they have 730 00:35:35,235 --> 00:35:43,590 said to us, um, on one of our E-com sites is, your page speed is, Incredibly low 731 00:35:43,830 --> 00:35:46,050 and we are gonna need to work on that. 732 00:35:46,830 --> 00:35:50,490 Um, and it's the first time an Ads company has actually said to me, part 733 00:35:50,490 --> 00:35:51,890 of your problem is your page speed. 734 00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:54,330 Um, on that particular website. 735 00:35:54,690 --> 00:35:58,410 So I went away and checked the page speed, and sure enough, he was right. 736 00:35:58,410 --> 00:36:02,130 It's insanely low and I think, um, it's not something that we've 737 00:36:02,130 --> 00:36:03,299 looked at for a year or two. 738 00:36:03,305 --> 00:36:06,569 And as things get added to the site and things change and evolve, this 739 00:36:06,569 --> 00:36:11,520 site's slows down and we now need to spend a bit of time revamping, uh, 740 00:36:11,525 --> 00:36:13,650 that as it were, but I'm curious. 741 00:36:14,235 --> 00:36:17,895 Um, you've mentioned it, the, the ads agency that we use, 742 00:36:17,925 --> 00:36:19,575 they've also mentioned it. 743 00:36:19,635 --> 00:36:25,425 What is it about page speed that makes, uh, ads perform better? 744 00:36:25,425 --> 00:36:27,435 That's gonna help us with our return on ad spend. 745 00:36:28,305 --> 00:36:28,665 Sure. 746 00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:30,315 So we talked a little bit about it. 747 00:36:30,585 --> 00:36:32,085 Um, we touched a little bit. 748 00:36:32,085 --> 00:36:32,635 I don't, uh mm-hmm. 749 00:36:32,985 --> 00:36:34,875 We touched a little bit on it before. 750 00:36:35,295 --> 00:36:40,965 Um, you know, our page speed affects bounce rate and engagement. 751 00:36:42,235 --> 00:36:42,510 Right. 752 00:36:42,510 --> 00:36:45,960 So the slower our pages load, obviously the longer it takes 753 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:46,910 for the customer to see it. 754 00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:47,110 Mm-hmm. 755 00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:49,620 And especially when we're, when we're buying ads, these 756 00:36:49,620 --> 00:36:50,880 are the most fickle visitors. 757 00:36:51,420 --> 00:36:51,660 Yeah. 758 00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:56,130 These are the visitors that have the least time to donate to our calls. 759 00:36:56,130 --> 00:36:56,490 Right. 760 00:36:56,850 --> 00:37:00,750 They don't have an existing, or generally speaking, they don't have an existing 761 00:37:00,750 --> 00:37:04,830 relationship with our brand, especially when, when we're in growth mode, right. 762 00:37:04,830 --> 00:37:05,160 We're mm-hmm. 763 00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:08,400 Trying to find new customers that we don't already know. 764 00:37:09,515 --> 00:37:13,215 Obvi, obviously we wanna say like find people, like whatever, and then 765 00:37:13,215 --> 00:37:14,595 we're not talking about retargeting. 766 00:37:14,625 --> 00:37:18,225 So retargeting, they've already been hit with an ad or they've somehow found 767 00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:19,965 our site, or they saw us on Instagram. 768 00:37:20,745 --> 00:37:25,325 But these fresh visitors are incredibly, incredibly fragile, right? 769 00:37:26,025 --> 00:37:31,154 So a half a second extra page load time will just naturally 770 00:37:31,154 --> 00:37:32,145 increase our bounce rate. 771 00:37:32,625 --> 00:37:35,595 So bounce rate there just means people that hit our page and 772 00:37:35,595 --> 00:37:37,455 leave without doing anything. 773 00:37:38,820 --> 00:37:41,040 And, you know, that's a, that's a huge thing, right? 774 00:37:41,460 --> 00:37:46,860 So that's the, the faster the page loads is the start of the engagement 775 00:37:46,860 --> 00:37:48,270 process for the customer, right? 776 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:56,220 And so a good example of something like that would be like, so when, when 777 00:37:56,220 --> 00:37:57,740 someone comes to a product page, right? 778 00:37:58,770 --> 00:38:01,710 We have a lot of product pages, have product reviews. 779 00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:04,890 A lot of product reviews will show like the star rating, right? 780 00:38:04,895 --> 00:38:06,750 Five stars, number of reviews. 781 00:38:08,445 --> 00:38:11,940 So that is like essential information for a visitor. 782 00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:16,380 So like when I, I, I mentioned my app before, rapid reviews. 783 00:38:16,590 --> 00:38:16,890 Hmm. 784 00:38:17,340 --> 00:38:20,400 This is like another good example of why page speed is so important. 785 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,960 So if we're buying ads, ton of ads, those visitors are landing 786 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,410 on like a product page or maybe an optimized like product landing page. 787 00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:33,300 We want stars in the visitor subconscious, like immediately. 788 00:38:34,315 --> 00:38:39,210 We can't wait a second or like, you know, Yotpo or stamp, maybe we're, we're 789 00:38:39,210 --> 00:38:45,060 not loading those stars for like 1.4, 2.2 seconds because they, they make an 790 00:38:45,065 --> 00:38:49,080 initial request and then they'll make nine or 10 or 15 background requests. 791 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,860 One of those requests eventually involves the star rating, right? 792 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:53,460 Mm-hmm. 793 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,020 And so that's a good example where one, we have the initial page 794 00:38:58,020 --> 00:39:02,820 load, which is just like core theme set up, blocking script tags. 795 00:39:03,450 --> 00:39:05,069 All kinds of nonsense loaded to the page. 796 00:39:05,069 --> 00:39:09,870 And then we have, you know, our module like rendering and especially 797 00:39:09,870 --> 00:39:12,390 if we have something as essential as like a third party module, like 798 00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:13,710 product reviews or star rating. 799 00:39:13,860 --> 00:39:14,370 Yeah. 800 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,640 So the difference between one second subconscious is like, 801 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:18,750 this is a subconscious thing. 802 00:39:18,750 --> 00:39:25,410 This is where we get into that kind of like the spiritual experience of the page. 803 00:39:25,799 --> 00:39:25,890 Yeah. 804 00:39:25,890 --> 00:39:29,670 All these things are happening that, you know, like these are hard to 805 00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:31,920 explain, but we know for a fact. 806 00:39:32,295 --> 00:39:36,945 That when we land on like the shoe page and then the stars don't show up for like 807 00:39:37,035 --> 00:39:42,915 two seconds, we don't like, that's hard to quantify, but that's like an immediate 808 00:39:42,915 --> 00:39:44,565 thing in the subconscious of the visitor. 809 00:39:44,865 --> 00:39:46,305 Oh, this is a five star product. 810 00:39:46,305 --> 00:39:47,595 I want to see what people are saying. 811 00:39:47,625 --> 00:39:48,435 It has, yeah. 812 00:39:48,795 --> 00:39:50,115 250 product reviews. 813 00:39:51,235 --> 00:39:55,125 So these are all the, like, there's almost a, like a stair 814 00:39:55,125 --> 00:39:57,315 step that you can work through. 815 00:39:58,020 --> 00:40:00,780 And then you can, obviously, if you're doing enough volume, you 816 00:40:00,780 --> 00:40:06,720 can immediately connect that to how much your ads are costing and then 817 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:07,890 how well the ads are performing. 818 00:40:07,890 --> 00:40:08,100 Right? 819 00:40:08,670 --> 00:40:10,470 Yeah, that's really interesting. 820 00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:11,910 It's really interesting. 821 00:40:11,915 --> 00:40:16,470 And, and as you're talking, I, I can start to see now the, you know, the 822 00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:21,300 strategy which you've come across most on ads these days tends to be okay. 823 00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:24,150 Rather than sending an ad to a product page, I'm gonna send an 824 00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:26,190 ad to a specific landing page. 825 00:40:26,595 --> 00:40:28,815 And that landing page is gonna resonate with the ad. 826 00:40:28,815 --> 00:40:30,465 It's gonna make sense to the ad. 827 00:40:31,155 --> 00:40:34,425 Um, it may be that I reversed the page, so rather than putting 828 00:40:34,425 --> 00:40:36,945 the ad to cart stuff at the top, I'm gonna put it at the bottom. 829 00:40:36,945 --> 00:40:40,335 And you, you know, we're gonna take you on a sales page journey and we're gonna test 830 00:40:40,340 --> 00:40:41,445 that and we'll test the different things. 831 00:40:42,420 --> 00:40:45,570 But I'm also starting to see the benefits here because if you have a specific 832 00:40:45,570 --> 00:40:51,630 set landing page, you can have that landing page load super quick, can't you? 833 00:40:51,635 --> 00:40:55,410 You can say, right, there's no necessary unnecessary JavaScript on this page. 834 00:40:55,410 --> 00:40:58,110 We're just gonna have the CSS for this landing page. 835 00:40:58,785 --> 00:41:04,035 We're not gonna embed the latest reviews, maybe the website, uh, 836 00:41:04,065 --> 00:41:05,445 we, we call 'em Crunch Jobs. 837 00:41:05,445 --> 00:41:08,325 We'll go through and it'll refresh 'em at midnight or something like that. 838 00:41:08,565 --> 00:41:11,475 But once you're on that page, man, everything is coming in. 839 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:17,085 Bang, super, super quick and you can start to see why that is a strategy 840 00:41:17,085 --> 00:41:19,755 not only makes sense from a sales marketing point of view, but also from 841 00:41:19,755 --> 00:41:21,195 a page speed point of view, right? 842 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:23,190 Yeah, absolutely. 843 00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:23,970 A hundred percent. 844 00:41:23,970 --> 00:41:27,900 And if people have the resources, if you ask the marketing team or the 845 00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:30,990 ad agency that you're working with, 10 times out of 10, they'll say, 846 00:41:30,990 --> 00:41:33,990 yep, that's our preferred angle. 847 00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:37,500 Like, oh, you, we can host the page for you and we can do whatever we want. 848 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:38,010 Perfect. 849 00:41:38,790 --> 00:41:38,911 You know? 850 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:39,690 Yeah. 851 00:41:39,690 --> 00:41:40,890 Because you, no, that's interesting. 852 00:41:41,250 --> 00:41:44,130 Again, that's like a resource allocation issue as well, right? 853 00:41:44,430 --> 00:41:47,760 Like the same with talking to our developer and we, we go to our developer 854 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,830 and we complain that, You know, our mobile Google page speed insight score is nine. 855 00:41:53,820 --> 00:41:58,200 And then, then, you know, like if the developer say, oh, cool, can 856 00:41:58,200 --> 00:41:59,880 I put 40 hours on this problem? 857 00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:00,670 Perfect. 858 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:01,680 You know? 859 00:42:01,685 --> 00:42:01,710 Mm-hmm. 860 00:42:01,790 --> 00:42:03,330 Same with the marketing agency. 861 00:42:03,330 --> 00:42:03,870 Oh yeah. 862 00:42:03,870 --> 00:42:07,270 We can just host these for you and you'll, you know, by the way, though, that's 863 00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:09,540 gonna cost you another $6,000 a month. 864 00:42:09,930 --> 00:42:10,230 Yeah. 865 00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:12,210 In order for us to do it the right way, you know? 866 00:42:12,210 --> 00:42:14,040 But yeah, it all makes a difference. 867 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:14,250 Right. 868 00:42:14,250 --> 00:42:19,725 And especially again, the problem with some of these, The, the era that we're 869 00:42:19,725 --> 00:42:25,875 in now, you know, even we, we could even touch on the, the, the AI component is 870 00:42:25,875 --> 00:42:29,595 that people are saying, oh, there's like, no one's gonna write code anymore and 871 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,305 everything's gonna do everything for us. 872 00:42:31,310 --> 00:42:32,505 And all these different things. 873 00:42:32,510 --> 00:42:39,315 We're, we're already so spoiled as e-commerce, you know, brand owners 874 00:42:39,315 --> 00:42:41,025 or developers we're so spoiled. 875 00:42:41,025 --> 00:42:47,115 And then, you know, we're gonna get to that next level where, yeah, I mean, it's. 876 00:42:48,540 --> 00:42:51,780 It's really like kind of a wild time, but we always have to, we 877 00:42:51,780 --> 00:42:55,260 have to keep investing resources in becoming better, right? 878 00:42:55,590 --> 00:43:01,410 Because that's like previously it would cost you what you can do on Shopify 879 00:43:01,410 --> 00:43:10,940 today for $300 a month in 2008 would've cost you $2 million a year just in 880 00:43:10,940 --> 00:43:14,850 development budget for what you can do on Shopify today for $300 a month. 881 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:15,330 Right. 882 00:43:16,275 --> 00:43:17,145 Yeah, it's crazy. 883 00:43:17,235 --> 00:43:19,005 I mean, technology moves on, doesn't it? 884 00:43:19,005 --> 00:43:23,835 It's such a rapid place, and I think this is part of the problem we had, um, with, 885 00:43:24,105 --> 00:43:29,505 uh, well, the problem we had with our website is because technology has moved 886 00:43:29,505 --> 00:43:31,905 on, our website's probably two years old. 887 00:43:32,655 --> 00:43:36,015 Um, and we've added things like we add Trustpilot for 888 00:43:36,015 --> 00:43:37,305 reviews, which we no longer use. 889 00:43:37,305 --> 00:43:38,505 We've taken Trustpilot off. 890 00:43:38,505 --> 00:43:38,865 We had. 891 00:43:39,495 --> 00:43:43,155 Um, a referral system on there and all of these things, when you added 892 00:43:43,155 --> 00:43:47,325 them together, just created a massive slowdown, uh, in speed on the website. 893 00:43:47,955 --> 00:43:49,455 Um, an unnecessary slowdown. 894 00:43:49,460 --> 00:43:53,905 It's interesting, you, you contrast your rapid reviews with YotPo and. 895 00:43:54,690 --> 00:43:57,990 And just the sheer size and speed of yours is very different to Yotpo, which 896 00:43:57,990 --> 00:44:00,510 makes me think, well, why have Yotpo done it the way that they've done it? 897 00:44:00,510 --> 00:44:03,780 Because they've, they've got a much bigger development budget, right? 898 00:44:03,785 --> 00:44:05,070 They've got much deeper pockets. 899 00:44:05,075 --> 00:44:07,710 Surely they should have done this right from day one. 900 00:44:08,370 --> 00:44:10,440 Why is it that they, they don't do that? 901 00:44:10,445 --> 00:44:14,550 And I, I don't know the answer, William, if I'm honest with you, but I, 902 00:44:14,830 --> 00:44:18,060 I mean, because it's hard and it, it involves compromise. 903 00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:18,810 Mm-hmm. 904 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:19,800 Right? 905 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,450 That's the problem is that they. 906 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,645 You know, this is not to say that their product isn't good. 907 00:44:24,885 --> 00:44:26,325 It solves a lot of problems. 908 00:44:26,415 --> 00:44:28,065 It probably solves too many problems. 909 00:44:28,095 --> 00:44:28,695 Mm-hmm. 910 00:44:28,965 --> 00:44:29,265 Right. 911 00:44:29,325 --> 00:44:33,285 So like I have customers come to me and say, well, Yotpo stamp, have 912 00:44:33,290 --> 00:44:35,685 this like crazy masonry layout. 913 00:44:36,315 --> 00:44:37,125 I say, that's fine. 914 00:44:37,725 --> 00:44:38,565 Like good for them. 915 00:44:38,570 --> 00:44:38,915 Mm-hmm. 916 00:44:38,995 --> 00:44:39,195 Right. 917 00:44:39,295 --> 00:44:42,855 If you want to live in my world and be the most hardcore and be 918 00:44:42,860 --> 00:44:44,535 the fastest you come use my app. 919 00:44:45,105 --> 00:44:45,345 Yeah. 920 00:44:45,375 --> 00:44:45,585 Right. 921 00:44:45,585 --> 00:44:49,695 If you want to, if you want to, if your exchange is, or your barter 922 00:44:49,695 --> 00:44:56,355 is, You know, 400 K for that versus 12 K for what I can give you. 923 00:44:56,475 --> 00:44:59,985 And you will have to make some small compromises then, you 924 00:44:59,985 --> 00:45:01,905 know, come up, come to my side. 925 00:45:02,655 --> 00:45:03,045 Yeah. 926 00:45:03,225 --> 00:45:06,645 That's inter as as I'm listening to you speak, William, I, I tell you 927 00:45:06,650 --> 00:45:07,876 the picture that I have in my head. 928 00:45:08,730 --> 00:45:12,900 Uh, is the, is the show, um, it used to be called, I mean it's still, 929 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,900 in theory it's called Top Gear, but you know, Jeremy Clark's and Richard 930 00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:19,050 Hammond TV show, the, the Grand Tour, I think it's called now on Amazon. 931 00:45:19,410 --> 00:45:23,040 And one of the things they do with race cars, uh, the first thing they 932 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:24,450 do is they rip out all the seats. 933 00:45:24,450 --> 00:45:26,160 They rip out all the unnecessary weight. 934 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:26,161 Right? 935 00:45:26,620 --> 00:45:29,220 And this is what I'm hearing when you compromise, it's like you 936 00:45:29,220 --> 00:45:32,220 can either go stupid fast or you, you know, you'd like the Rolls 937 00:45:32,220 --> 00:45:33,810 Royce with the crazy heavy seats. 938 00:45:34,665 --> 00:45:37,545 Um, or we can rip out some of that weight, which we're not 939 00:45:37,545 --> 00:45:38,565 really using at this stage. 940 00:45:38,565 --> 00:45:40,515 Cause I'm just taking one guy around a track. 941 00:45:40,905 --> 00:45:43,425 Uh, I can compromise on the stuff that I'm not really using. 942 00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:44,445 I can go faster. 943 00:45:45,045 --> 00:45:48,285 Um, that really helps me, uh, in my, my simple brain. 944 00:45:48,375 --> 00:45:48,615 William. 945 00:45:48,615 --> 00:45:49,905 I'm not, um, 946 00:45:50,295 --> 00:45:54,975 no, I mean you, it's not to say that you want to be like so rigid that you don't 947 00:45:54,975 --> 00:45:57,345 have a great user experience, right? 948 00:45:57,375 --> 00:45:57,465 Mm-hmm. 949 00:45:57,705 --> 00:46:02,475 But like, the example is if we're buying a lot of ads, okay. 950 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:10,530 So we're gonna have, we're going to, we're going to, let's say we're gonna accept 951 00:46:10,530 --> 00:46:16,440 the penalty of half a second of load time or you know, if we use Yotpo, you know, 952 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,940 sorry to pick on ya, Yotpo, but their performance profile is one of the worst. 953 00:46:20,945 --> 00:46:21,150 Yeah. 954 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:22,471 It's offensively bad. 955 00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:27,720 Like, and I say this just as someone who cares about page speed and like, I'm 956 00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:31,260 committed to excellence and it's horrible. 957 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:31,710 Right? 958 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,970 So, I think they have, like if we just talk about number of dom nodes, 959 00:46:36,780 --> 00:46:38,790 they probably have almost 10 x. 960 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,500 They inject 10 x the number of like page elements as rapid reviews does. 961 00:46:43,770 --> 00:46:43,920 Mm-hmm. 962 00:46:44,490 --> 00:46:45,960 This is something that's hard to explain. 963 00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:49,860 You know, it's, it's hard to help people understand, but all 964 00:46:49,860 --> 00:46:53,760 that's like this massive cognitive load on the browser, right? 965 00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:54,060 Mm-hmm. 966 00:46:54,420 --> 00:46:58,350 And so, you know, like your example of the race car. 967 00:46:59,580 --> 00:47:03,600 We don't want to have a seat that's like hard to sit in. 968 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,220 That's so light, right? 969 00:47:05,310 --> 00:47:08,010 We still want the race car to look awesome, but you know, if we use 970 00:47:08,010 --> 00:47:11,940 like a brand like, I don't know, like Singer, they do custom Porsches, right? 971 00:47:12,540 --> 00:47:12,630 Mm-hmm. 972 00:47:12,870 --> 00:47:16,650 So they're kind of walking that line between beautiful, elegant, efficient 973 00:47:16,655 --> 00:47:18,410 design and like massive performance. 974 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:19,170 Yeah. 975 00:47:19,470 --> 00:47:24,180 So that's kind of where we are in like the the race car example or you know, if we 976 00:47:24,180 --> 00:47:27,570 use like a Porsche GT3, so we have that. 977 00:47:28,425 --> 00:47:32,985 We're walking that line between like brutal performance and elegance, you know, 978 00:47:32,985 --> 00:47:34,725 and that's where we want to exist, right? 979 00:47:34,755 --> 00:47:42,375 So a lot of that stuff that we see out there most, I am not a 980 00:47:42,375 --> 00:47:47,115 psychologist, I'm not even an amateur psychologist, but my understanding is 981 00:47:47,145 --> 00:47:51,825 that many people make their decisions based on like fear and comfort. 982 00:47:52,215 --> 00:47:52,305 Mm-hmm. 983 00:47:53,145 --> 00:47:53,445 Right? 984 00:47:53,445 --> 00:47:56,895 So the, they see a product that they have today. 985 00:47:57,315 --> 00:48:00,884 And then all that they see by making it like the switching cost for them 986 00:48:00,884 --> 00:48:02,325 emotionally is what they're gonna lose. 987 00:48:02,625 --> 00:48:02,715 Mm-hmm. 988 00:48:03,225 --> 00:48:04,245 Not what they're gonna gain. 989 00:48:04,305 --> 00:48:08,174 So then they can look at something, oh, as a marketer, I made all these 990 00:48:08,180 --> 00:48:11,055 decisions and I told these people, put this here, put that there. 991 00:48:11,265 --> 00:48:16,375 I want this carousel, I want all these like fade ins and oh, if I click on 992 00:48:16,634 --> 00:48:20,745 this button, it has to, it has to move up or move over a little bit. 993 00:48:20,775 --> 00:48:22,455 Oh, I want this Parallax, everything. 994 00:48:22,455 --> 00:48:23,455 Yeah, Parallax. 995 00:48:23,475 --> 00:48:23,835 Right. 996 00:48:24,045 --> 00:48:27,855 So then, A page speed expert will come in and look at their libraries 997 00:48:27,855 --> 00:48:29,085 and be like, yeah, this is junk. 998 00:48:29,775 --> 00:48:30,975 Like you're blowing it. 999 00:48:31,214 --> 00:48:32,924 So then we're gonna have to rip all this stuff out. 1000 00:48:32,924 --> 00:48:38,625 And then the brand owner says, well, like, but I made all those decisions. 1001 00:48:39,855 --> 00:48:41,565 So then I'm afraid to make that change. 1002 00:48:41,565 --> 00:48:44,654 Cuz it makes me feel vulnerable and insecure and like sad 1003 00:48:44,660 --> 00:48:46,485 obviously cuz I'm the same way. 1004 00:48:46,904 --> 00:48:47,145 Yeah. 1005 00:48:47,174 --> 00:48:51,255 So then they, really approach it from a standpoint of like fear of loss 1006 00:48:51,345 --> 00:48:54,645 as opposed to, Inspirational gain. 1007 00:48:54,645 --> 00:48:55,725 Like, okay, cool. 1008 00:48:56,175 --> 00:48:57,765 We're gonna make this page hardcore. 1009 00:48:58,095 --> 00:49:03,105 Maybe that'll increase our conversion rate by, I don't know, 0.4%. 1010 00:49:04,635 --> 00:49:06,645 0.4% is huge. 1011 00:49:06,650 --> 00:49:06,925 Yeah. 1012 00:49:07,095 --> 00:49:09,915 If we have, you know, a 5 million ad budget. 1013 00:49:10,335 --> 00:49:10,395 Yeah. 1014 00:49:11,775 --> 00:49:13,095 Well, every little helps, right? 1015 00:49:13,365 --> 00:49:15,825 Uh, as the great British supermarket tells us. 1016 00:49:16,005 --> 00:49:20,985 Listen, William, it's um, it's, uh, fascinating conversation. 1017 00:49:20,985 --> 00:49:22,215 I like the singer analogy. 1018 00:49:22,245 --> 00:49:23,775 It was much better than my car analogy. 1019 00:49:24,195 --> 00:49:26,505 Um, which is great. 1020 00:49:26,505 --> 00:49:30,795 Listen, I'm, I'm aware of time, man, and if people wanna reach out to you, if 1021 00:49:30,795 --> 00:49:33,705 they want to connect with you, we wanna find out more about rapid reviews, page 1022 00:49:33,710 --> 00:49:34,935 doctor, all that sort of good stuff. 1023 00:49:34,935 --> 00:49:37,035 What's the best way to do that? 1024 00:49:37,965 --> 00:49:38,235 Sure. 1025 00:49:38,235 --> 00:49:43,815 The easiest is to go to williambelk.com and I have all my stuff listed there. 1026 00:49:43,845 --> 00:49:47,715 Um, I do quite a bit of writing on Medium, and you can find a link. 1027 00:49:47,925 --> 00:49:51,255 Everything's on williambelk.com, but you can, my Twitter's not 1028 00:49:51,255 --> 00:49:54,135 that interesting to be honest, but, uh, you can follow me there. 1029 00:49:54,435 --> 00:49:57,125 And then, uh, medium, I, I really like Medium as a platform. 1030 00:49:57,125 --> 00:49:57,365 Mm-hmm. 1031 00:49:57,450 --> 00:50:00,045 I like to write when I can and then, um, yeah. 1032 00:50:00,045 --> 00:50:05,265 And as far as my apps go, If you are on Shopify and you know, check 1033 00:50:05,265 --> 00:50:06,975 out my apps, reach out to me. 1034 00:50:06,975 --> 00:50:07,995 Yeah, you can reach me directly. 1035 00:50:07,995 --> 00:50:12,165 Like, I'm not hard to find, I try to be as involved with all my stuff as I 1036 00:50:12,170 --> 00:50:16,845 can be and, you know, help people out because I don't know, I like, I like 1037 00:50:16,845 --> 00:50:21,225 building stuff and, you know, I like helping people and yeah, it's, it's a 1038 00:50:21,225 --> 00:50:23,775 good, good thing for me to be doing it. 1039 00:50:23,775 --> 00:50:27,735 So yeah, reach out to me directly, you know, maybe we can, um, we 1040 00:50:27,735 --> 00:50:29,565 can make some, some pages faster. 1041 00:50:30,105 --> 00:50:30,645 Fantastic. 1042 00:50:30,650 --> 00:50:30,885 Yeah. 1043 00:50:30,885 --> 00:50:31,165 Ideal. 1044 00:50:31,185 --> 00:50:32,415 Yeah, absolutely. 1045 00:50:32,415 --> 00:50:33,225 No, that's awesome man. 1046 00:50:34,065 --> 00:50:38,235 So we will of course link to William's information in the show notes, which 1047 00:50:38,235 --> 00:50:42,315 you can get along for free with the transcript at e-commerce podcast.net. 1048 00:50:42,375 --> 00:50:45,315 Or it will be coming direct to your inbox if you signed up 1049 00:50:45,315 --> 00:50:47,155 for our very fast newsletter. 1050 00:50:49,005 --> 00:50:53,925 Uh, William, listen, uh, really enjoyed the conversation man, and, um, very good 1051 00:50:53,925 --> 00:50:57,525 timing for us as we are having this, uh, conversation internally about how 1052 00:50:57,525 --> 00:50:59,995 we increase page speed, so Oh, perfect. 1053 00:50:59,995 --> 00:51:01,195 Uh, very, very well timed. 1054 00:51:01,195 --> 00:51:01,825 So brilliant. 1055 00:51:01,825 --> 00:51:03,415 Thank you so much for joining us, buddy. 1056 00:51:04,015 --> 00:51:04,915 Yeah, thank you for having me. 1057 00:51:04,915 --> 00:51:05,575 It was so fun. 1058 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:06,630 No, that's great. 1059 00:51:06,810 --> 00:51:07,140 Great. 1060 00:51:07,140 --> 00:51:10,170 Huge thanks again to William for joining me today. 1061 00:51:10,590 --> 00:51:14,940 Also, a big shout out to today show sponsor the e-commerce cohort. 1062 00:51:14,940 --> 00:51:19,650 Remember to check out their free online training free, yes, 1063 00:51:19,655 --> 00:51:22,980 free at ecommercecycles.com. 1064 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,670 Also, be sure to follow the e-commerce podcast wherever you get your podcast 1065 00:51:26,670 --> 00:51:30,600 from because we've got yet more great conversations lined up and I 1066 00:51:30,630 --> 00:51:33,305 don't want you to miss any of them. 1067 00:51:33,365 --> 00:51:34,055 No, I don't. 1068 00:51:34,055 --> 00:51:39,065 And in case no one has told you yet today, dear listener, you are awesome. 1069 00:51:39,245 --> 00:51:39,845 Yes you are. 1070 00:51:39,905 --> 00:51:41,615 It's just a burden you have to bear. 1071 00:51:41,615 --> 00:51:43,265 You've been created awesome. 1072 00:51:43,595 --> 00:51:44,675 It's a burden I have to bear. 1073 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,115 It's a burden William has to bear. 1074 00:51:46,415 --> 00:51:48,035 It's a burden you've gotta bear as well. 1075 00:51:48,095 --> 00:51:50,745 Now, the E-Commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 1076 00:51:51,425 --> 00:51:55,835 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 1077 00:51:56,165 --> 00:51:59,375 The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Estella 1078 00:51:59,375 --> 00:52:00,785 Robin and Tanya Hutsuliak. 1079 00:52:01,140 --> 00:52:04,980 Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if 1080 00:52:04,980 --> 00:52:08,010 you'd like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the 1081 00:52:08,010 --> 00:52:11,860 website ecommercepodcast.net. 1082 00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:13,590 That's it from me. 1083 00:52:13,590 --> 00:52:14,820 That's it from William. 1084 00:52:14,825 --> 00:52:17,130 Thank you so much for joining us. 1085 00:52:17,130 --> 00:52:19,230 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 1086 00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:20,340 I'll see you next time. 1087 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:21,270 Bye for now.