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Welcome to a psycho delicious conversation on mental health issues and trends from two local mental health professionals in the greater Lansing area. I'm Michael Stratton, lmsw.

And I'm Morgan Bowen, dnp, pmhnp. And we're here to provide you with a deep dive into the human experience of consciousness and beyond. Our aim is to be educational and entertaining. So just kick back and open your ears and your minds.

Hey, I'm Michael Stratton.

And I'm Morgan Bowen.

And we are here today to try to fake our way through an hour in two parts of talking about codependency.

Because codependency, that is the topic.

That is the topic. And the reason I say that is that, you know, quite often with the topics we talk about, I considered myself, you know, like, hey, I'm an expert on trauma. I'm an expert on, you know, fill in the blank. Codependency is like, I don't know if I know enough about it. I know it's true, but as I read more about it, I realized, like, oh, it's not that I don't know more about it. I am it. And Dadalion is with us producing. We're gonna rely on you, Dadalian, to tell your life story.

Oh, that'd be great. I'm sure I've got something going on there.

Do you feel like people know the word co dependency?

I actually would say the best way to start this conversation is with a definition.

Well, boo, because that's exactly where I'm going.

I'm like, I don't.

Do you have a good one?

Well, I mean, one of the things that I always read is that it's very hard to define. It's EAS to see, I think, than it is to define. But do you have, like, a textbook definition or it's like pornography?

You know, I. I don't know what it is, but I know it when I see it.

Got you.

Isn't that what somebody said once?

It's true. I don't know who said that, but I feel like that's.

There's.

I. I do not want to look that up on the system here in the college. I'm not looking that quote up.

Well, I'll tell you what I think is. So, you know, codependency is when there's a partnership. So co means that there's gotta be two people involved. But when one person's focus is really on what the other person is doing, and frequently what the other person is doing incorrectly or wrong. And so the person's life is kind of lived in orbit of the other person. So the focus is always on the other person. Frequently I think about it in terms of when there's an addiction in a family. And so the attention is focused on the alcoholic or the person with substance use disorder and trying to get them to change and get them to stop and why are they doing this? Your mind is always focused on that person or over time it develops that that person is just 100% focused on what's happening with the other person to the point that they really are not living their own life.

I agree with that. And the other kind of fascinating piece of that is that it always does occur in a relationship. It doesn't exist just on its own, but the feature is someone who's adapting to someone else's style. And if it's an under functioning style, it happens that way. But if it's a rigid style, it can happen that way as well. So I think the key thing is being in relationship with someone who has a rigid style of being. Whether that's I'm rigid because I'm addicted and that's not going to change or it's rigid because I'm narcissistic and I only care about myself and you have to adapt to me. It can happen that way. Someone who has a character style that's particularly rigid, unbendable, unbreakable, psychopath, sociopath, different things of that sort. So it can happen in a number of ways. And also the idea, we throw the term around like it's a bad thing. And I think in some ways someone who is trying to kind of bend over backward to help other people. If we were all codependent, it would be a better world to some extent, you know, because it is people that are trying to adapt to someone else. And let me help you with that, let me help you with that. But doing it to the point that it's at their own expense.

Caretaking is a central concept or quality, I think for sure in a codependent individual or a codependent relationship, somebody feels compelled that they need to take care of the other person and that they cannot, you know, that person can't live without them. And so it sets up a dynamic where that person needs you. But you know, in a relationship in which somebody's always trying to fix things, that can lead to conflict and tension because not, you know, people usually don't want everything fixed to be fixed.

Yeah.

At all times. And so that can lead to resentment, you know, on both parts. And so. So a Foundation of something that could have been very well meaning can turn into something very toxic over time.

That makes sense. Yeah. It's interesting too, because I was just thinking of codependency. I was talking about rigidity, that sometimes people are rigidly codependent, that they can't seem to stop themselves from helping other people. And people in the helping profession, I think, are prone to that. I've been called out by my therapist, by the way. I believe my therapist is starting to listen to our podcast.

Well, that's good.

Maybe she said she was going to. I should highlight this one in particular I've offered. I said you can be a guest on it at some point. She doesn't want to do that. No, no, no.

Rewinding back to where you were talking about the rigidity and then you said another word. Unfunctioning. Is that what it was?

Under functioning.

Under functioning.

Under functioning.

What did you mean by that?

So sometimes it's tied to an addiction. Sometimes it's tied to just really, say, low self esteem or to some kind of deficit. Deficit, I don't even like that word. But something that is going on for the person, that they're not kind of living up to their potential. That's what teachers are.

Or another thing I would think of is maybe it's a dynamic in a family where one of the individuals is the. Is professional outside of the home, you know, very focused on work. They're at work all the time. And the other partner is, you know, taking care of everything else, making sure that, you know, everything's really clean and the, you know, the meals are made and the kids are taken care of and the house is perfect. And, you know, there's a desire to do that independently of that person's, you know, that other person's role. But then it becomes like if, you know, if you. It upsets the person if things aren't perfect. And so it can create that dynamic that, you know, I have to do this or else. And then their choices, their life, their schedules are pivoting around what the other person is doing. And they don't feel like they have their own life or their own ability to do things that are of interest to them. They can't grow in a way that they may like to because they are busy or focused on facilitating the other person.

Interesting.

Yeah, it's interesting what you're saying. And I think the distinction between someone who's a natural helper and then someone who falls into codependency can be connected to what that person's Internal experience is. So if you are helping someone a lot, but you find yourself starting to either regret it or resent it, that's a sign like I'm giving too much. I'm giving so much that this is starting to bother me and yet I can't seem to stop it. I can't seem to draw that boundary for myself. So it has that quality of being kind of over determined or kind of driven in a way of the person, which is what my therapist has accused me of.

Well, I always say, you know, any long, throwing it on the table just

case she's listening, just in case.

I think any long term relationship, marriage, committed relationship, there's an element of co dependence to it because you are a partnership and you've made a life together and you're doing things that involve both of you. So I think necessarily that includes a level of co dependence. But it can definitely. The problems happen when the resentment starts. And if it's a situation where one person's feeling that they're contributing to the other person's life at the expense of being able to do their own, resentment

comes along probably when it feels like you're being controlled is what I would think.

Yes. Well, you know, control may sound like

I'm speaking from an experience, but I know nothing about this at all.

Well, so in a codependent relationship, the resentment can go, it goes both ways. So the person who's the helper, you know, and, and I guess these roles are very rarely so easily defined. And there's kind of fragments of these experiences in both parties. But the helper, the one who wants to help, is resentful that even though they're giving so much, the other person isn't doing what they want them to or isn't performing in a way that they want them to, or making more money or staffing, drinking or whatever it may be. And then the person that is being helped, quote unquote, is resentful at the other person for trying to fix them. Like quit trying to fix me, I'm doing my own, you know, that kind of thing. So it goes both ways. And that's the dynamic that can lead to extreme toxicity, silent meals, dagger stares, you know, very tense, minimal conversation.

Right.

You know, the idea, these are kind

of things I picture across the dinner table in like, I don't know, the 60s or the. Yeah, the idea of mom and dad,

if I do this for you, you will return and do this other thing. But the deal is never clearly articulated. So the idea is never really clearly. Like if I'm particularly nice to you or I ignore your drinking long enough, sooner or later you're going to stop drinking and it doesn't happen and then the resentment builds. So I mean, when it's attached to, particularly if it's attached to something that would be called pathological in some way, that's when that whole cycle starts to really escalate. So I've got a list of some traits.

Well, let me read this. I want to.

You got the Melody?

He's actually got a book.

I've got this on the book.

So Melody Beatty, she's been around since the 70s and writes a lot of books related to codependence, including kind of the Bible, Codependent no More. And so she comes from more of a 12 step addiction background. She herself, which she describes in her books, is an alcoholic and then recognized that she also had codependent qualities and kind of focused part of her career on that. So in her book Codependent no More, she says most codependents were obsessed with other people. With great precision and detail, they could recite long lists of the addict's deeds and misdeeds. What he or she thought, felt, did and said, and what he or she didn't think, feel, do and say. The codependents knew what the alcoholic or addict should and shouldn't do, and they wondered extensively why he or she didn't do that, did or didn't do it. Yet these codependents had much great, who had much great insight into others, couldn't see themselves, they didn't know what they were feeling, they weren't sure what they thought and they didn't know what, if anything they could do to solve their problems, if indeed they had any problems other than the alcoholic.

Summarize that well.

So, you know, this comes from, you know, more of a substance use disorder tradition with the kind of image of the, of the partner, the long suffering partner who really wants to help this person get sober. And so all of their energy and mind and attention is spent trying to help that person get sober, to figure out what is the secret. And if you do this over year after year after year, you try everything and nothing works. And so the discontent, the resentment bubbles and burns and boils over and you lose all sense of yourself. And what is it that I'm feeling outside of this resentment and rage that's taken over my life? I don't know what I feel other than that I don't know who I am, I don't know what I want. I don't, you Know everything. My whole life, I wake up thinking about this person. I go to bed thinking about this person and trying to figure out how to help them. And you know that that turns into something toxic.

That's one of the big traits is that focus on the other to the neglect of your own self. And I had not put this together myself, which seems crazy, but I had not until I was reading about this some more, that one of the things that'll happen sometimes when I'm in a session with somebody and they'll talk about. They'll talk about whatever the complaint is and I'll just simply reflect back what they said and they'll act like they're hearing it for the first time because they don't even know. They say, wow, it's amazing how you could put that together. And I just said, well, that's what you just told me. And they don't listen to their own internal dialogue even. It's like it's news to them what they think or what they feel.

It's true. There can be such a lack of insight. They come into therapy to see me. And you're a therapist, I'm sure you can concur, provide your own examples. But they spend 40 minutes talking about their spouse or their kid or whoever it may be, and they spend zero time talking about themselves or anything really about themselves. And anytime you try to kind of pivot the conversation to what is your internal feeling about that, it always ends up back on the other person. So that's a time when I'm working with somebody where I'm thinking there's something going on in the relationships or some level of dysfunction that can be definitely described as codependence.

Yeah. So some of the characteristics. If I can read my phone now,

you should have brought a book.

I should have brought a book. I should have run this off so it looked more official. But anyway. But yeah, a tendency to minimize or ignore your own needs. What I want is less important than who I have to serve of what's going on with this other person who has greater needs than I do, or I need to sacrifice what it is. And whether that's time, whether that's finances, whether that's attention, whatever, whatever that is. The next one is neglecting your own needs and desires to satisfy those in the other person. And the next one is self worth or self esteem, that depends on what others think of you. So there's that whole people pleasing thing and to a good extent I'm guilty of that. I would say that people pleasing Kind of thing. I want people to like me. And the payoff is that the person that you're connected to is going to like you. That if you give them enough, they're going to reward you for that in some way.

Yeah, I mean, the people pleasing and I think constructing your identity in opposition or in relation to another person. I am, you know, I am this person because, you know, I do something for this other person, you know, as opposed to having an independent standalone self worth or self image.

This is kind of a, kind of a stereotype. But when a couple is talking about where do you want to go to eat? And one person says, I don't know, I don't care. I don't care what it is, you know, I don't know. So they don't, you know, they don't know what it is. Well, let's have pizza. Well, we had, actually, we had pizza last night. Okay. Would you like to go get Mexican? No, no. You know, I'm just like negating one thing after another, but also not being able to articulate what it is that they would like to eat that they don't. And they might not know. They might not know. They may only know what they don't like, but not what they would like. So that would be kind of a quality, lightly codependent, you know. But I remember one time I walked into a, this was a fast food place and this couple had walked in behind me. This was many, many years ago. And the guy asked his girlfriend, I'm hoping it was his girlfriend. I hope, God, I hope they weren't married. But he said, what do you want? And she said, I don't want anything. He said, well, then let's go. She said, no, you're hungry. And he said, no, let's go. If you're not going to eat it, let's go. And she said, I'm not hungry. You're hungry. You said, you're hungry. Get something to eat. Well, what do you want? I don't want anything. I mean, they were locked into this dysfunctional pattern that was like, oh, God, I hope you guys aren't. I hope this is your first date.

Oh, wow.

It went on and on, as you say. That, I think is some of the conversations I've had. And I might have had that conversation somewhere. Was it you?

It probably was. Well, why do we talk about codependence? I mean, what are the, you know, again, I think codependence is a part of everybody's relationship and it doesn't necessarily have to be A horrible thing.

Do you think it grew out of the recovery community? Do you think that's where it started

as far as my like exposure to it and my own, you know, path with it and is it through the recovery community? And reading Melody Beatty as my kind of primary source of thinking about codependence because she comes out of the recovery community. That's kind of how I. That's the perspective that I come from. But no, I don't think it has to be. I think there's codependence in. The potential for codependence is in any relationship, any copy, co occur, partnership, co partnership.

And again, I would underline that I think there has to be an element of rigidity, you know, for it to really grow up. When you grow up in a system that's rigid, where there's a level of dysfunction. Yeah.

That's important.

Yeah. Then you're more likely to develop that as a.

Well, there was a child, adult child of alcoholics that was, you know, big on the scene, you know, in the 80s, would you say? 80s, 90s?

Yeah.

70s, 80s. So I think codependency kind of came around that time around the, you know, AA is a 12 step organization, has been around since like the 30s. But in the 60s and the 70s, you know, there was NA and then Al Anon kind of developed, you know, a little bit before that. But you know, it seems like in that 60s, 70s, into the 80s was when that family dynamic, interpersonal dynamics and the effect that addiction or alcoholism has on that.

Yeah, it's interesting because if you look at the literature in AA for instance, and they do address relationships, they do address families, they recognize that alcoholism has an impact on the whole family. That got developed further and people would actually, I think one of the treatment centers here used to put on a plate where they would show like the different roles that people play in alcoholic families. Like I'm the scapegoat and someone else is like, I'm the clown, I'm the funny one, I'm the overachiever. I'm going to be the one who makes everyone proud. I'm going to create more chaos than you can. So I'm going to distract in this way. So they all had these different roles that you tended to see again and again and again in alcoholic families. And then they did tend to play out quite often. But all of those roles could be in some way or another defined as kind of a codependent stance. I'm doing this in relationship to something that is really out of control.

Yeah. And so I think one of the big things is that relationship dynamics start from the primary relationships that you have in your family. So in the place that you. The. The dynamic in which you grew up in. And so co dependence and patterns of relationship are learned early, very early, and they can be very hard to break as you move forward. And sometimes people don't, you know, they don't recognize the damage that their own tendency to recreate these relationships is causing them. And so they feel that it's always the other person's fault. I mean, if they're, if the relationship pattern exists continually with destructive or chaotic people, then certainly the other person's behavior is going to play a huge part. But the initial foundational pattern of recreating this type of relationship pattern, getting involved in relationships that there's plenty of red flags or probably from an objective point of view, it's probably not a great idea. People come to treatment when they are. Can't take it anymore when they're either the relationship that they're in is so toxic that they just hate themselves. They hate themselves, they hate the other person. Their life is joyless. Like they just don't have anything.

Yeah. It feels like a big compromise.

Yeah.

Or their, their relationships are continually so destructed. They want love, they want a family, they want stability. But they continually get into these relationships that don't. That just are never going to be. That they're just never going to allow for that. I think codependence has something to do with both of those. Would you agree, Mike?

I would agree with that. I would think that also. I think that the payoff, the idea that there's a payoff eventually that if I act in this certain kind of way, I'll finally get what I want. But it's not anything to ever be stated directly. And part of that is because it's unconscious. What you really do want is kind of unconscious. I want the other person to change in some way, but I'm hardly even able to articulate that. So that being a piece of it, the ability to get in touch with what it is that you need, what is it you want, and the ability to start to express that. And that brings us to conflict because that's another area in codependent relationships where conflict is quite often not expressed or it's expressed in a real kind of passive aggressive way. So it's so funny how it bleeds over into different areas. Because really when you talk about codependency, you're talking about attachment styles, you're talking about inner family, inner family stuff, all kinds of things that it touches into. And yet it is kind of a vague thing, but the ability to help other people. So this week, for instance, I'm not going to get specific specific about it, but I helped somebody. They called me, they said, I need some help. I was able to go out and help them. It was winter. I was able to help them and do that. And I. And I felt good about it. I felt. I didn't feel put out by it. I felt, I. I felt like I'm being a good guy, you know, and now I'm telling people about it so

I can get your approval.

So that, but that, but that thought of like it would be. It would be cool if people are more like that in a way. But if I had done it and I resented it and said, this person's always asking for this and why can't I ever. It's never reciprocal. It's always this, you know, then it slips into codependency. So I think that's the difference, you know, the main difference that I see. So it's good to help people, but if it goes over the line and you find you're churning internally because of it, you might be having some codependency going on.

So obviously there's no treatment for this.

So on the second part of this, we're just going to continue to riff.

There is no there's treatment.

We'll talk about that. There's treatment.

There is hope.

A Psycho Delicious conversation is meant for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is no substitute for therapy and should not be treated as such. If you feel a need for real therapy, you should consult your local provider, Google Therapy, or therapists in your area. Check with Community Mental Health or a suicide hotline if you are feeling suicidal.

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hello friends and welcome to Coach Cut's Corner. Streaming bright from Michigan's capital city, this podcast is dedicated to helping you better understand the who, the what and the why of mental performance, personal growth and Lansing Stars Baseball. Coach Cuts Corner brought to you by I Wash in collaboration with Lansing Community College. And now here's your host, Steven Cutter.

Welcome to Coach Cut's Corner. Thank you for tuning in and subscribing each week. I aim to provide insights into our program and inspire you to challenge yourself just as I continue to challenge myself. My goal is to help you enhance your life through these conversations. In addition to this podcast, I offer mental skills coaching for athletes at all levels from the youth to professional. To learn more, visit coachcutter.com today in the WL and Z studios I have assistant coach Jeff Allen and we're going to be preview previewing the topic of resiliency in the sports world. Jeff's role on our team is your assistant coach. Here you're you mainly work with our infielders. You help with our Offense. You help with our day to day operations. You have a lot of titles here. You know, maybe only one on, you know, on the website with, with assistant coach, but as you know, in the baseball world and probably in all of the coaches worlds, you've got to wear a lot of hats.

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you gotta, you gotta learn to love wearing those hats too. That's one thing that I've really started to enjoy throughout my coaching journey is where at first when I would get invited to coach something that I wasn't too familiar with, I would just get super nervous. And then, you know, you kind of just face it head on and learn as much as you can about it and pick the people's brains that have done it and done it successfully and kind of incorporate that into what you're working with.

Success leaves clues and it's very important to pay attention to the people or programs or things that have had success. I want to start with a stoic thought on resiliency. I love the stoicism and it's by Marcus Aurelius and it's the impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way. Obstacles and challenges aren't setbacks, but opportunities to grow stronger and more resilient. And I think like when we run into obstacles or setbacks, oftentimes it's just frustration that takes over and then you start stepping back, you take steps backwards and you've experienced obstacles and setbacks. I've experienced obstacles and setbacks. And the players that we coach all experience the same stuff. So it's really just understanding that persistence and resilience only come from having been given the chance to work through difficult problems. And that's where resiliency comes from. By not necessarily stepping back, but stepping forward through it, you build that muscle of resiliency. Right. Mental toughness could be another word for it. I think athletes and coaches and individuals build resilience by embracing adversity and turning challenges into learning experiences. I think there's some common misconceptions about resiliency that, that I've heard and a few of them that I think about is it's not just toughness. Resiliency isn't about ignoring emotions or toughing it out. It's about processing challenges, learning and adapting. It's not innate. Resiliency isn't something you're born with. It's a skill you can develop through intentional effort and practice. It's the muscle.

Yeah.

It's not an absence of struggle. Resilient people they still struggle. They might struggle more than the average person, but they just persevere and grow through it. So I wanted to talk about kind of understanding resiliency, like through your lens and kind of in your words, what does resiliency mean to you and especially in the context of, of sports.

Well, you touched on a lot of the points that resiliency means to me, but I think that the most important thing with resiliency to me is really being able to keep that long term goal in focus. If you're facing adversity, that's great. So it's just not necessarily focusing on what that problem is. It's just trying to take what you can learn from that problem and just keep pushing through it. And like I said, just keeping that, that main goal in focus.

Yeah, it's. It's being able to see the trees amongst the forest and it's being able to understand, you know, what's my why. Yeah, you know, that that pushes you through things when you don't know what your why is or why you want to do something. And I think we'll talk about that as we get further into this podcast. You're going to struggle.

Absolutely.

But when you know what your why is, you can definitely push through. How about in your playing career where resiliency was maybe a defining factor for you, whether it might be for success or maybe on the other side of the coin.

Yeah. I think that you can find a lot of points of resiliency no matter what stage you're in, whether that's coaching or playing. I think the one that sticks out the most to me would probably be the first school that I went to. I wasn't too sure where I was going to end up going to college. Finally found a school in Kansas. Get down there, I'm working hard, you know, and shoulder blows out. So it's like, oh man, am I going to let that just define my career? Am I going to keep that main goal in focus and, you know, prove people wrong?

You had a bigger why, I'm assuming, when you got hurt.

Yep, yep. I mean, just, just to be able to kind of show my family and my younger siblings that like, no matter what you're going through, as long as you just keep pushing through it and just stay focused, I think that you can accomplish anything you put your mind to.

Yeah, usually those want. Those whys are pretty intrinsic. Usually they're not super extrinsic like fame or fortune. They're pretty intrinsic and usually they do gravitate back to family.

Yep. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's always been a big reason why for me. And I think that's, that's definitely the biggest piece of resiliency for me is being able to get through that shoulder surgery and then come back and continue playing and now into the coaching career where it's really blossomed into something I really didn't see at the time. I just knew that I wanted to be involved in baseball in any way that I could because it's, you know, it can change lives.

Have you seen our approach to building resiliency in our program with our players maybe both on and off the field? You could speak about like our offense and how we build resiliency there. I mean, what have you seen? Because you're fairly new here, you've been here with us for about a half a season at this point. We're getting ready to start our 2025 season. But kind of what have you seen as we build in our program as

far as off the field goes with building resiliency? I think that our leadership classes and our mental performance every day really plays a huge role in that. I think that the ability to keep pushing through your problems comes from the preparation that you put into it. So being able to go and consistently work on mental performance every day and go to our leadership class every week, there's, there's, that's the foundation of your belief system is those steps. So I think that that is a huge part of it off the field. I think on the field, as far as resiliency goes, especially with hitters, we do a lot of constraint based training which, when, when guys come in, at least the freshman I've, I've seen and they'll be a little frustrated when they're going through and you got your skinny bats and your smash factor balls and you know, you're really questioning things. But being able to push through that and realize that it's going to be harder in practice so that it's easier in games. I think that really helps with their resiliency on the field. And just the overall, it's kind of a buzzword. But the culture in our dugout when like a guy gets out, you know, or you know, they're not having a great day in the field when guys come and pick them up, that, that also helps with that resiliency because it would be nice to be able to be resilient by yourself all the time, but having a strong support system around you really helps with that resilience.

I think, I love that. I think that as coaches, we face challenges that require us to stay composed and bounce back quickly. And that's. And that's kind of where the modeling comes into play. And we're constantly facing challenges and can we stay composed and can we come up with a game plan to bounce back? Just like at the football level, you get a halftime to make adjustments for what just happened in the first half. Maybe you want to keep stacking bricks with what you're doing and maybe you want to just change the whole foundation of what that first half was and start over with a really small micro brick. And we're going to come out of the locker room and we are going to do this because we couldn't do this one time, you know, and so that's kind of what it looks like. But then there's also the other piece where you're trying to balance being tough on players with showing them grace and understanding. And that's one of the things of that where I'll use like the words like seek perspective.

Yeah.

You know, somebody shows up late for something and you automatically want to say, this is where our standards are. But you also have to have a little bit of compassion and know they're. They're young, probably living on their own for the first time, probably trying to figure out, you know, X and Y for the very first time without a whole lot of help outside of our program. And it just happened. And it's not so much about that it just happened. It's about showing a little bit of empathy, a little bit of compassion and saying and thinking if they can grow from this, right. If they're showing up late every day, then we have a large problem. But if, if they mess up and they can grow from it, then I believe that's called impact. And I love impact. And we see players in our program that come in, they might be a little bit selfish, that they're into themselves and not necessarily always thinking about others and they mess up sometimes. And it's like, we have high standards here, we hold them accountable, but there's also some empathy for them and we allow them to grow. And that's, I think, a big reason why we see a lot of the growth that we do. Because. Because, I mean, you even hit on it, hit on it in the, on in our offensive side of the practice. It's challenging. There's a lot of failure. That's not a buzzword. That's. We're not overblowing something. It's the real deal. There's a lot of failure. And if you get a round of seven, there are stations where you will be super fortunate to get, you know, three barrels off. A round of seven.

Yeah, exactly.

And. And it's challenging. And instead of saying, poor me, I suck, I. You know those things that you initially hear in the start of the process, pretty soon you start looking around and you see people shaking their heads, saying, this is what it looks like.

Yeah.

And. And I'm thinking, when I see that this is what it looks like, I'm thinking, yep, that's where the resiliency muscle is starting to grow. And in our sport, and I believe in all sports, but baseball is extremely, extremely challenging.

Yeah.

Sport have to be resilient. And there's a lot of challenges that are thrown at you, not only in the box, but on the pitching rubber, in the field, on the scoreboard, with the weather, with the umpires, you know, just with, With. With fans, with travel, with. With food, with. With everything. So you're getting all these things and somehow you've got to somewhat try to build in programs, Calluses. Yeah. So that you can become stronger. And those things become. Can become more than just a buzzword of. We focus on what we can influence and they become something that you are. And it's just, it's. It's a really special thing. And I think adversity is inevitable on the path to greatness. Resilience is about adapting and thriving when faced with challenge. There's a stoic philosophy that says you have power over your mind, not outside events. Sounds like a baseball game to me. Realize this and you will find strength. And I think in my coaching career, I've experienced a ton of adversity, not only for myself and family, but I've also experienced, just as the coach, watching players go through things that are much bigger than striking out or throwing a ball to the backstop.

Yeah.

And I think that's probably where some of the adversity and empathy come together for understanding. We try to teach in our program, I think what a lot of people try to teach, and we just do it with insane consistency. But to control what you can focus on, effort, attitude, and how you prepare, those are all things that you have total bear hug around that you can do. And we try to reframe failure. Failure isn't ever the end. It's more or less feedback. And it's sometimes awful tasting medicine, but you need it. And we try to encourage athletes to ask, what did I learn from that? What did I learn? And I don't think you need to lose games to learn. But I think when you do experience setbacks, if you can ask yourself, what did I learn? You have a chance to continue stacking bricks and moving forward. And then probably the last thing is really just understanding that it's micro wins. It's celebrating small victories helps build that muscle of resilience. And this is really tied into our brick stacking philosophy. And you can win. You can have incredible days when the scoreboard says that you shouldn't be.

Yeah.

And you can have amazing moments when the box score says that you didn't have a great game.

Right.

It's. It's about plus ones. It's about stacking. I believe there are four layers of resiliency, and I wouldn't mind if you added something to these four layers if anything pops in your mind. But as I was preparing for this podcast, I thought, you know what? There's. There's mental resilience, the ability to stay composed under pressure and bounce back from mental challenges. There's emotional resilience. How you handle the emotional toll of setbacks and failures while trying to stay positive and trying to stay focused. What's your why there's physical resilience? The important of. The importance of caring for your body to endure the physical demands of sports and life. And you think about the physical resil that we have in our program because it's going to be challenging and you need to be able to take care of your body to the best of your ability. You might not have all the people that some other programs have, but you can focus on what you can control. And the final layer is social resilience. And it's building and leaning on a support network which can be us as coaches, it can be your teammates, it can be your family, and it can be your friends. How do you think, like, our team culture promotes resiliency amongst our players and staff?

I think that kind of like I talked about earlier is just like the ability of our guys to be able to pick somebody up when they can tell that they're not feeling the greatest at the moment. And I think that that going through and kind of switching that mindset from, oh, man, this is a failure to the micro wins. You know, where it's like, okay, on the scoreboard, we failed, but I'm gonna grow more from this than I would have if it would have been a cakewalk for me. You know, there's always something that you can improve on. I feel like you really get the most to improve on out of those failures or said failures.

Yeah, that's Incredible. I think there's, this is kind of like the toolbox time. This is ways that you can teach resiliency in your program or in your family. You start with controlled adversity. We put players in challenging situations during practice, simulated high pressure scenarios to build their confidence in overcoming challenges. That is a controlled adversity environment. We celebrate effort, not just results. We praise the process. We praise things like hard work, preparation, grit, rather than focusing solely on wins and losses. As you said with the micro learning, it's really invisible growth. You're stacking these bricks. Pretty soon if you stack them right and you have the right mortar holding those bricks together. In the middle of those you will see a wall and you keep, you keep stacking and pretty soon you see you get a big wall and then it, pretty soon it becomes a house and, and it's, it's this incredible thing. In team environments, we, we, we try to create a safe environment for failure. Let players know failure is part of learning. When they fail, don't yell. Ask reflective questions like what did you learn? What can we do differently next time? Set small, very small achievable goals. Break challenges into manageable pieces and focus on consistent progress. Practice gratitude. Reflecting on what you're thankful for shifts focus from setbacks to opportunities. You can't be thankful and mad at the same time. It's just not possible. And you have to develop emotional regulation. We try to teach athletes to pause, breathe, reset, instead of reacting impulsively to the tough situations. I think immediately umpires. Yeah, you know, it's, let's not have a reaction there. Let's breathe, let's reset and let's seek some perspective here. Yep, just adjust a journal. Resilience. Resiliency is built by, can be built by the journaling. We encourage players to jot down moments that they overcame challenges and what they learned from those experiences. Our program journals after mental performance on a daily basis. You'll see journals in the dugout, you'll see journals on the bus. You know, some of the questions I've got asked about some of this stuff is like, how do you get buy in? And it's like it's, it's whatever you ask for, right? You've got that hour and a half or two hours or three hours with, with that team. So what are you going to ask for? Yeah, and, and yeah, maybe you're going to ask the first time and it's not going to be completely perfect. Not everybody's going to remember to bring their journal for practice, you know, but you don't necessarily have to take that, that person that forgot the journal and have them go, you know, run the fence or whatever. But it's like, hey, what, what can you learn from this? And it's like, I'm gonna make sure I put, put it in my backpack every morning when, when I go to class and I'm gonna have it for practice or whatever. And it's like, yeah, there's a brick stacked right there. And pretty soon you have the buy in, and then pretty soon they're journaling and then they look back on it a month later and they're like, whoa, I can't believe I was feeling terrible about doing this said constraint drill. And now I see success, I see growth. And then really to dive deep into the weeds, it's about neuroplasticity. And without getting super deep in the weeds, it's just understanding. It's the brain's ability to adapt and rewire itself in response to challenges. When you repeatedly respond to adversity in a positive way, you strengthen pathways that make resilient behavior automatic.

I like that. I like that a lot. Well, coach Cut, do you have any final advice for our listeners on kind of embracing that resiliency in their own lives, whether they're players, coaches, or parents or pretty much anybody listening?

I think that's a solid question. And I, I know that I've turned to over a period of time with resiliency and coaching. Kind of a top 10 processes for building resiliency and why I've turned to that is because I think it's imperative for teams to build resiliency.

Yeah.

And embracing resiliency is about adopting a mindset and habits that help you navigate challenges and bounce back stronger. So here are 10 ways to approach it. Number one, reframe challenges as opportunities. Shift your mindset to see adversity as a chance to grow and improve. Instead of asking, why is this happening to me? Ask what can I learn from this? And remember, setbacks are setups for comebacks. Number two, focus on what you can control. We've heard it often control your effort, attitude, and response to situations, but it's so true. Because resiliency thrives when you stop wasting energy on what's outside your control and double down on your actions and your mindset. It doesn't matter how cold it is out today, you're not going to die. You're just uncomfortable, right? Have you heard that before?

Oh, yeah. Especially in the up.

Number three, Build a strong foundation. Daily habits. Stack your bricks by building small, consistent habits that improve your mental and physical strength. These practices create resilience over time. A reliable routine helps you stay grounded when life gets chaotic. Remember your why. Accept failure and learn from it. Understand that failure is part of the process. It doesn't define you, it refines you. Use failure as feedback. Analyze what went wrong and how to improve I. E. Journaling is a great way for that. Number five Lean on your support system. We talked about this already. Surround yourself with people who uplift you and challenge you to grow. Sharing struggles and receiving encouragement helps build mental fortitude. Stay present and focused is Number six. This is a huge one because we have so many distractions. Resiliency grows when you focus on the moment rather than worrying about the future or regretting the past. A great way to do this is use mindfulness techniques like deep breathing, journaling, meditation, yoga, that kind of stuff to stay in the present moment. Number 7 Cultivate a growth mindset. Believe that you can develop skills and overcome obstacles through effort and persistence. Remember Carol Dweck's principle? She wrote the Great Mindset book. Failure isn't permanent, it's a step towards growth. Number eight Two words that I use very often. Seek perspective. Step back and look at the bigger picture. A challenging moment doesn't define your entire journey. Remember that tough moments are temporary, but the lessons learned can last a lifetime. Number nine Celebrate small wins. Acknowledge the process and progress that you've made, no matter how small it is. Each win, each plus one reinforces the belief that you're capable of overcoming obstacles. And finally, number 10 stay true to your values. Let your purpose and your core values guide you when the going gets tough. Resiliency is easier when you know your why and why. Your why helps you push through. Embracing resiliency isn't about never failing. It's about always getting back up, stronger, and hopefully more determined. It's the practice of taking life's hits and turning them into fuel for future success. That is my top 10. Thank you, Jeff, for joining me today in the WLNZ studios. Make winning in life your habit, not your goal. Remember, excellence is a daily practice, not just a prize. Build great habits and practices that serve you so that you can serve others. And don't forget to cherish the small moments. They pass by in a blink of an eye. Until next time. Thank you to all of our listeners. Be resilient. Ultimately, we're all playing a game we can't win, so why not play it to the utmost? Go all in and go Stars. Coach Cutscorner is recorded live in the WLNZ studios with the Dalian Lowry and Jereny Robinson providing engineering and production assistance. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today's podcast, please share it and follow us on all forms of social media. Our program has been built and maintained with the help of many great people. If you want to be part of our mission, you can donate using the link in the show notes below. You can learn more@coachcutter.com and more about our team@lccstars.com see you next time.

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