Speaker 1 00:00:05 Hey there, thoughtful listener. Are you looking for introductions to partners, investors, influencers and clients? Well, I've had private conversations with over 2000 leaders asking them where their best business comes from. I've got a free video you can watch with no opt in required, where I'll share the exact steps necessary to be 100% inbound in your industry over the next 6 to 8 months, with no spam, no ads, and no sales. What I teach has worked for me for over 15 years and has helped me create eight figures in revenue for my own companies. Just head to up my influence comm and watch my free class on how to create endless high ticket sales appointments. Also, don't forget the thoughtful entrepreneur is always looking for great guests. Go to up my influence. Com and click on podcast. I'd love to have you. With us right now, it's Ryan. Ryan, you were the co-founder of rootstock. You're found on the web at rootstock Dot agency. Ryan, it's great to have you.

Speaker 2 00:01:16 Oh, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 2 00:01:17 Josh, I'm so excited to be here and chat with you today.

Speaker 1 00:01:20 Yeah, absolutely. Well, I love what you do. And I'm excited for this conversation around, you know, branding and thought leadership and why that's so critical today and why that's such a huge differentiator. Yeah. But would you mind maybe just kind of giving us an overview of who you are and the work that rootstock does in the world?

Speaker 2 00:01:38 Yeah, absolutely. So rootstock is a thought leadership consulting firm, and we work with all kinds of ambitious leaders and organizations, to help them scale their, grow their brands and scale their businesses by tapping into to the potential of their best thinking, honing their stories and sharing them with expanded audiences. And we do that in a very strategic way. We've got our process. We can talk more about that later and all that. but we believe storytelling matters. You know, the power of ideas can make everything we do better, can make your industry better, your personal life better. And if you do it in a strategic, disciplined, committed way, you can not only elevate your business and your brand, but you can elevate your field.

Speaker 2 00:02:22 And that's our big differentiator with thought leadership is the elevation of your field.

Speaker 1 00:02:27 Tell me more about that. What do you mean by elevating your field? Yeah. No.

Speaker 2 00:02:30 Exactly. So I just launched a blog other day, and it was about the difference between a subject matter expert and a thought leader. You know, subject matter experts are very smart people. They're great at their job, but they might do their thing and then go home at the end of the day. And they don't want to talk about it. They don't want to really share those insights. They might be an accountant or an engineer or someone in house or something like that. To make that jump to a thought leader, you've got to be a little more intentional and just be willing to take that jump and be out there and put yourself out there. And that part, the uncomfortable, scary part is what kind of keeps a lot of people on the sidelines. but when you start doing this and sharing all of that stuff, you're elevating your field.

Speaker 2 00:03:06 You're like, hey, I think we can do this in a better way. Like, here's a standard way we do this thing in our industry. I think we can do it a better way. Here's what I think about that. And it's leaning into those those core positions. Your thought leadership position, we call it, it's like, what do you really stand for? You know, and we help people unpack that by going through things like, what do you believe? What do you know, what is your vision? And then we help you articulate all of that in a way that basically codifies and articulates your position. And that's kind of your North star for all the content you want to produce, all the conversations you want to have, you want to go speak on stage, you want to do podcast, you want to do case studies, right? White papers, whatever. It's kind of your it's your main Rosetta Stone on most. But this is what I'm going to. This is what I believe.

Speaker 2 00:03:48 And this is where I stand on these things in my industry. And I think how we can all elevate everything we do.

Speaker 1 00:03:54 Yeah. So it almost sounds so it sounds like and correct me if I'm wrong or please do build upon this that it's not so much about talking about, you know, here's our solution. Here's why our solution is awesome, but you're really advocating for the betterment of for all you like. You're your advocate. Let's make the world a better place. Here's my ideas. Or here's what we see. Here's what we all agree on. Here's the plan. You know, here's the you know, here's how we're going to all move forward.

Speaker 2 00:04:24 Exactly. And there's all this data coming out that's really proven the value of thought leadership work. And you touched on a great point where it's like, hey, I can build you a one sheet that will tell you, here's a problem I know you have, and here's why our solution is going to be the best thing you're ever going to get.

Speaker 2 00:04:38 Well, that's great. But, you know, decision makers and C-suite folks and the VP's, they get flooded with this stuff. And there's all this data saying companies with really good thought leadership content that's like, here's how, here's some problems we're all seeing. Here's how we think maybe we can do this a little bit better. Those companies tend to have an advantage for the data over folks that are just trying to sell, sell, sell, sell. So and so if you're a decision maker, you want to go to a company that's like, oh man, they've got all these great blogs and case studies and white papers and podcasts and LinkedIn posts that are like hitting on things that were kind of having problems with, like, I'd love to talk to them more. So you're not selling. You're selling. By not selling, you're just giving value away. Here's how we can. And that's a big part. I think that also people have a problem with is giving value away. You've got to be generous with your time, with your value, or giving away your value with your energy.

Speaker 2 00:05:26 You've got to just do that. And it's not for everybody, but it it's a, it's a commitment to and that that commitment I think is what some people forget about. It's consistency every day. You know it's a great quotes out there about consistency over intensity. You know just little things every day. It's the same with thought leadership. You got to stick to it and the results will build whatever your content ecosystem looks like. Let's shape it for what you want to do, and then we'll get it out there in front of the right people. Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:05:54 I suspect that there are a lot of we have a lot of SMB leaders that listen to this show, and I suspect that there's probably someone listening right now and they say, Ryan, I'm doing all that, but what? But but maybe it's not kind of coming together. It's not moving quickly enough. Yeah. yeah. You know what? Can you maybe just share a little bit more on kind of best practices for what that activity looks like? How are we putting ourselves out there? It's it's not, you know, I mean, it's a noisy world.

Speaker 2 00:06:29 Yeah, it is, it is. And cutting through the clutter is hard. Generating leads is hard. It just is. And you you hit on a perfect example of that. I'm a share of a recent client we've been working with. They are a conscious architecture firm out in LA and they do really cool work. And they tried for a couple of years, they tried doing a lot of their own brand narrative and messaging, a lot of their own thought leadership positioning. And they got they got they made progress. But they're not. That's not what they they're good at. They're good at designing awesome buildings and places that are good for the environment and things like that. So in our discovery period with them, we saw all the great work they had done. You know, they'd every six months it kind of pick it up and be like, all right, we're going to make some progress on this today. And it would kind of iterate a little bit. And then you could see it would stop for months.

Speaker 2 00:07:13 Again, because work takes precedent. Right. They're trying to build a company. They're trying to sell projects. And also they're not experts at this like we are. So we got in with them. We didn't start from scratch. We took what they had already done and we just built on it, and we cleaned it up and we dived in and we asked a lot of questions. We have a we have a thought leadership position workshop. It's called our Radical Report. It's really fun. And it's not it's not radical like, you know, surf's Up. It's radical, which is actually a botany term. And the radical is a part of a seed that becomes the roots. So before your roots are even there and you have that strong foundation, you've got to take care of that part before it. So that's where we come in and do a thought leadership position building. And then we can do a brand narrative, a messaging guide for kind of a company story. And those two things together create a very powerful foundation of of strategic storytelling.

Speaker 2 00:08:06 And so this client, they were in that same boat. They're like, man, we just can't get over the hump. And after a little bit of time with them, we got them over the hump. And now we're pushing forward on redoing their it's impacting their story. We're telling on their website. It's going to impact the way they sell their, work and how they sell their build, their proposals going to impact what he talks about on stage, at events and in conversations and partners he's seeking out and all that stuff. So that's the foundation that's going to drive all this stuff. But they were there. They were this close. They were close. They just couldn't get over the hump.

Speaker 1 00:08:35 Yeah, I, I wonder if this is something that that comes up, for you when you work with clients frequently and it's this, dynamic. I was talking with, a guest and, you know, they were kind of a branding person, and, and they were looking at how I was positioning myself and like, Josh, you're being way too humble, like you're like, you, I don't think that you're like, yes, you're stating the facts on what you do and kind of your title and so forth, but I don't I think, you know, he was really saying, I think you need to be a little bit more lofty, quite frankly.

Speaker 1 00:09:15 And you might feel uncomfortable with that. Like he was saying, you know, you need to say, you know, I listen, I'm a global authority and client attraction for relationship focused B2B leaders. And I'm like, global authority. I can't say, you know, I won't say I didn't say that out loud. But in my brain, that was my instant reaction. Like, for sure, I can't say I'm a global authority that's way too audacious or Braggadocious like that initially feels uncomfortable, but but I think that that's the mark of a really great branding person saying, no, no, no, no, no. I'm on the outside of the bottle. You're on the inside of the bottle. I understand why you might feel uncomfortable, but you need to see it from my perspective, or you need to see it from the perspective of your audience. They need to follow your cues. All right, Ryan, there is a bunch right there. Take it away. Tell me what's going on.

Speaker 2 00:10:02 Well, first of all, you are quite the authority. I love everything you do. You put yourself out there constantly. I've been following your stuff for a few years now since I had a client on your show.

Speaker 1 00:10:10 Oh, gosh.

Speaker 2 00:10:10 Thank you. and I think you're doing a lot of stuff, so. But again, they have, they see something different. So calling yourself a global authority might be uncomfortable for you, but if it's true, let's lean into that and let's unpack that. So I totally get where that person's coming from. And we deal with that all the time where someone's like, I don't really know. And this and that. They've got great ideas and I'm like, okay, that's fine. We'll help you get there. We've been called, you know, emotional support humans. You know, we kind of help you see the things that you can't see because you're so close to it. And that's a big thing. Like, I don't know about this. I don't know about that.

Speaker 2 00:10:43 Trust me. It's a great idea. But let's unpack it and let's talk. And a lot of what we do is conversations. And that's a big part of our work, is conversations with us getting you to have conversations with other thought leaders and experts in your field that are going to build these relationships in these partnerships and things like that. because thought leadership does not happen in isolation because you have to build your clout, and you can't do that by sitting in your corner and not talking to anybody and not putting stuff out there. So I'd say you've got great clout, Josh, because, well, thank you all your all your great videos. Your content is non-stop. You are doing daily conversations. I mean, you're you're rocking it like you're probably on the upper end of a content creator and doing strategic work for people. And I love it. thank you. And that.

Speaker 1 00:11:28 Feels so.

Speaker 2 00:11:28 Good. No, I mean, it's incredible, like, it's I mean, it's prolific what you're doing.

Speaker 1 00:11:32 Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:11:33 so, so, but and then that's great. And that's your style. But everyone's got their own style, you know? So one thing we like to ask clients when we first start with them is we're not going to be like, you've got to post on LinkedIn, you've got to get on stage. You've got to do podcast, you've got to submit for awards. It's like, what do you enjoy doing? Client they might enjoy being behind a microphone or that might terrify them. They might love writing or the thought of a blank page staring them in the face might be nightmare fuel. They might love public speaking, or that might give them wicked anxiety. Okay. What are the things you like to do in terms of that content ecosystem we're going to build for you? And then let's lean into those. You can do that. And then we can support the other things in different ways. So we never are like it's not a one size fits all thing. We've got kind of a, you know, we've got a good old Venn diagram, our thought leadership Venn diagram.

Speaker 2 00:12:20 We'd like to that helps guide all of our work. And there's three circles obviously strategy and story conversations and content and connections and clout. And in that middle is your thought leadership. And all of those in those circles is all the tactical stuff that we all know and love. You know, your blogs, your case studies, your speaking, all this stuff we've talked about. But you can't do all of it and you don't need to do all of it. It's not a spray and pray approach. It's a targeted, strategic way to get you out there where you're where your audience is, where you can have the most engagement with them, where you can build relationships, they're going to generate leads and all that fun stuff. And the last thing I want to touch on, on that is the Klout, like you said, like like, I don't know if I'm a global authority. Well, if someone's seeing that, that means you're having that external validation where if you're new and you're like, I'm the global authority on, SEO or whatever, and you're like, you've never done anything to it.

Speaker 2 00:13:10 It's like, okay, great. You can't just say that. Just like you can't say I'm an influencer because I have an Instagram account. Being a thought leader means earning that clout that comes with that. And through that Venn diagram, all those things that we do add up to that clout. And that takes time and that takes time and consistency. And that's again coming back to that kind of theme we talked about earlier. So you got to earn the clout. It's just and that's that's done by getting out there and interacting with with more of the right people coming from that strategic foundational positioning work that we've done up front. And that changes over time, too. Just like people change, the way you think about stuff could change. Like, oh, well, I went to this great conference. I learned this thing that's going to impact how I talk about this one thing. And so we'll have conversations. We'll maybe tweak some something around that, or maybe we'll do a blog around that or whatever.

Speaker 2 00:13:52 So there's it's a constant evolution iteration, just like we as humans change. Your thought leadership position can change a little bit. Just a little, little tiny tweaks in here and there.

Speaker 1 00:14:01 Ryan, the time is going by really quickly in this conversation. Your website is Rootstock Agency. Do you mind sharing just a little bit about what engagement typically looks like with your clients?

Speaker 2 00:14:11 Yeah, absolutely. So yeah. rootstock Dot agency, we've got a bunch of fun stuff on there. We're trying to get more. We're trying to walk the walk like we ask our clients to do and do more blogs and case studies and things like that. But, a typical engagement with us can look like a few different things. We we'd like to come in and ask a lot of questions. First. It typically will include some combination of a thought leadership position workshop like we talked about earlier. That's for the leader or leaders. If there's multiple in an organization. and then there is the brand narrative and messaging guide, which is kind of getting the organization story in place.

Speaker 2 00:14:45 And that can be starting from scratch. It can be taking what you've done and building upon it. And we dive into all the all the classic stuff, mission, vision, values. But then, of course, your USP, your key pillars, your full brand story. We like to, unpack a bunch of personas, like, who are we going after? How do we want to talk to them? Like what do they need from us? Things like that. So those are a couple of our key foundational pieces that usually lead into some kind of strategy workshop where it's like, okay, we've got a better picture of who we all are, what you're trying to do, what is that execution going to look like? So let's build the strategy. Like what do you really want to do? Like we talked about earlier, do you want to go speak and travel or do you want to host private events. Do you want to do podcast? You want to write a bunch? Do you want to just like have a ton of meetings? Like, what are you trying to do? and so we build that strategy and then we execute on it.

Speaker 2 00:15:29 And that's different for everybody again. So we're very flexible. It's all very customized, but it's very thoughtful, intentional approach that we believe works and produces results.

Speaker 1 00:15:40 Yeah. so Rootstock Agency to our friend that's listing right now. What what would you recommend. I know you've got some great resources here. I like some of the stuff that you've got, on your site. You've got like, I was like these. I don't know why I don't do it, but, you know, having a, a recommended reads, list, you know, stuff like that. which, by the way, you have some great books on here.

Speaker 2 00:16:04 Thank you. Yeah. My, So my partner, she's our editor in chief of staff, Tara McEvoy. She is an eight time published author. she used to write with Simon Schuster, Simon and Schuster, in her previous life. So she is. She is this unicorn that has, can use both sides of her brains with equal ferocity. Because what I say, because she's an incredible creative writer, but she also has the process and systems part of her brain.

Speaker 2 00:16:27 So she kind of combines those two. And it's so powerful. But having an eight time published author as our lead writer and our lead editor and overseeing all the work we do, whether it's, you know, ghostwriting a book for a client or editing a big blog or an editorial article or whatever that is, it's such a value add to our clients because we we are we see stories in different ways, she and I, and we connect dots in different ways, and together we feel it's a pretty powerful combination. So having someone like her, because we are we are a narrative driven firm. we bring in other creatives as needed. You know, we're working on a pitch right now where we brought in our videography team. we've got designers. We've got, you know, SEO folks and website builders and all that. But we know our lane, and we're we're a narrative focus firm. So having someone like Tara leading that part of the company is, is just simply incredible.

Speaker 1 00:17:18 Yeah. okay. So again, rootstock dot agency, if someone wants to reach out, and grab a conversation, do you do that?

Speaker 2 00:17:27 Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 00:17:28 Yeah. I love having conversations. That's as you probably can tell, I'm a bit of an extrovert and I love connecting with people. My my nickname for the company is The connector. Whether it's people, ideas, things, clients, connecting clients to each other, etc.. So you can hit me up at Ryan at rootstock Dot agency. I'm also on LinkedIn. Ryan. Kelly. Kelly. there's a lawyer in Atlanta named Ryan Kelly, so I'm not him. but, those are kind of my main places to find me. There's, of course, a general contact form on our site if you want to do that. But I love talking to people, and we love helping folks, you know, get their story in order, Because just like we're not engineers, not everybody is a storyteller.

Speaker 1 00:18:06 Yeah. Ryan Kelly. Your website, rootstock Dot agency, of which you were the co-founder Ryan, has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for this.

Speaker 2 00:18:15 Thanks so much, Josh. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 00:18:23 Thanks for listening to The Thoughtful Entrepreneur Show. If you are a thoughtful business owner or professional who would like to be on this daily program, please visit up my influence. Com and click on podcast. We believe that every person has a message that can positively impact the world. We love our community who listens and shares our program every day. Together we are empowering one another as thoughtful leaders. And as I mentioned at the beginning of this program, if you're looking for introductions to partners, investors, influencers, and clients, I have had private conversations with over 2000 leaders asking them where their best business comes from. I've got a free video that you can watch right now with no opt in or email required, where I'm going to share the exact steps necessary to be 100% inbound in your industry over the next 6 to 8 months, with no spam, no ads, and no sales. What I teach has worked for me for more than 15 years and has helped me create eight figures in revenue for my own companies.

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