Welcome to the VP
Love Podcast, the
show where we
bring you
actionable health
advice from
leading minds.
I'm your
host, Rog.
My guest today is
Simon Delve, an
entrepreneur and
the current CEO
of Sampton, a
meditation
platform and app
that aims to
bring mindfulness
meditation
to the masses.
Expect to learn
what stress
actually is and
why it's so
damaging to our
health, why
mindfulness is
such an effective
way of helping to
regulate stress
in the body, and
why you should
consider using
Sampton to
support your own
meditation
practice.
Now, on to the
conversation with
Simon Delve.
Simon, welcome to
the show.
It's great to
have you here.
I know we'll
shortly be diving
into all things
meditation and
mindfulness.
However, before
we jump into that
side of things,
would you mind
introducing
yourself to the
audience?
I know you've got
a diverse
background and
would love to
hear all
about it.
Hey, Rob.
Yeah, firstly,
thank you very
much for inviting
me as a guest on
the Vitality
Probe Podcast.
I really
appreciate it.
And yeah, I think
I have got a bit
of a diverse
background in
terms of my life
and my work life.
So I grew up in
Newport in
South Wales.
As many people
did, you know,
years ago, grew
up on a council
estate and we
didn't really
have a lot as a
family, but it
just
tended to work.
You know,
everybody that
you lived in the
area where you
lived were all
kind of in the
same position.
Same place.
Yeah. And so, you know,
we had this
element of
freedom where we
were able to be
out and about and
not have the
worries that
maybe some of the
children
have today.
And then at 13,
our life changed.
So my father was
diagnosed with
cancer and within
six weeks,
that was it.
He was 41
years of age.
My mother was 35,
had four
children,
age 14, 13.
I think my
brother was seven
and my
sister was three.
So, you know, our
lives kind of
changed at
that point.
Cancer was kind
of a thing then,
but not
massively known.
You know, you're
talking like it's
actually 32 years
ago today,
actually, that
you passed.
So our life kind
of changed.
And what happened
then was my
father asked me a
question then or
asked me to do
something on my
brother, which
was to look after
our mother and
our
siblings, really.
And that's kind
of where it went
from there.
So then I ended
up being somebody
that created this
real big
work ethic.
I had many jobs
from the age of
13, really
up to 23.
So even at the
age of 16, I
start an
apprenticeship
with Land Rover.
I still from 13
to 23, 24 always
had a minimum of
three jobs.
So I was just
working, working,
working and
really trying to
break free of the
life that we had
where we didn't
have a lot.
So I had this
attachment to if
I work hard, we
get the freedom,
I can look after
my family.
And that's kind
of what I did.
And in that time
then, at the age
of 16, I got my
apprenticeship.
And at the age of
35, I'd been with
Land Rover
for 19 years.
I'd gone from
being an
apprentice
mechanic to a
leader of a
business, which
is everything I
said I was
going to do.
In those years,
I'd had my son,
Brandon, my first
with his mother,
which was a
different
relationship to a
married to now.
And yeah, that
was kind of life
was just
happening as it
does for people
at a house, a
child, a career.
And I was ticking
all the boxes
that we were all
supposed to
tick, really.
Then as time went
on, I separated
from Brandon's
mother and they
also developed
the heart
condition,
which I had
atrial
fibrillation,
atrial flutter
and tachydermia.
So with that, my
heart would raise
about 250 on a
regular basis.
So I found myself
all of a sudden
living with this
kind of heart
condition from
the age of around
about
probably 28.
At this heart
condition, I was
struggling with
every day.
I was on
medication.
And through that
period of time,
I've had an
operation in 2010
and an operation
in 2019,
which neither of them
really worked.
But we've got it
settled down now.
My life is a bit
more or a lot
more normal than
it was for
a long time.
Over this period
of time, I've got
married to Jamie
Lee, my wife.
We've been
together now for
15 years and
married for 10.
We also have two
children, Ashton
and Riley.
So we have three
boys between us
all together,
which is
fantastic.
They're
full of joy.
My eldest boy is
20 years of age
and my youngest
is eight.
So there's also
an age range of
living life
again, I suppose
you could say.
But at the age of
35, I decided to
make a change and
leave my
corporate career
and move to
Switzerland,
which I did.
I went to live in
Zurich for a
short period of
time, trying
something new.
And when I
came back,
I had a newfound.
The best way to
put it really
view of the world
as a newfound
view of the
world, because
over there, I was
able then to find
my authenticity.
Even though it
was only over
there for six
months, the
authentic Simon
started coming
through.
I realized how
much I was
operating on a
daily basis back
in the UK, in the
Korea, in this
belief system
that I built up
in to actually
who I really was.
Because as soon
as I got into a
place where
nobody knew me, I
didn't feel like
I had to keep up
any appearances
and then the real
me came through.
So when I came
back from
Switzerland, I
then ended up in
a position where
I was just
different.
I was just
different the way
I was, my
attitude to
learning really
and trying to be
more, talking
about my
potential and
abundance of
opportunity.
My whole thought
process was
different to how
I operated.
And then over
those last 10
years, I found
more of a skill
set in developing
human culture in
businesses and
specializing in
business
transformation
and turnaround,
working in
business as an
entrepreneur,
in which then I
invested in
something and
become the CEO of
something where I
sit today.
Yeah, that's kind
of a little
overview of my
life, really.
Yeah, that's
amazing.
I just sort of,
yeah, I've
definitely spoken
to a few people
recently who have
sort of, who've
grown up in this
sort of a council
state sort of
environment.
I think you're
the first one to
actually sort of
paint it in.
I mean, I'm not
to say that it
wasn't maybe the
best environment
to grow up in,
but you
definitely sort
of highlighted
the fact that
there was a
community in
that, at least
initially.
And I think
although maybe
the circumstances
weren't ideal,
that is quite
special in a way.
I don't know what
you think, but I
think community
is something we
just solely as
black as a
society today,
which I think
drives a lot of
issues for a lot
of people,
especially this
whole thing about
sort of
loneliness and
isolation.
Did you find that
in your form to
the ears that
there was that
sort of community
there, even as I
think you put it,
you're all in the
same position.
Did you, were you
able to sort of
come together in
that respect?
Yeah, 100%.
You know, I think
my kids today,
when they go out,
you know, we've
got Find My
Child, or I think
it's called on
our iPhone, we
can track them
and, you know,
we're worried
about what's
happening in the
dangers.
There were
dangers back
then, maybe not
publicized
because of the
way social media
wasn't present
and the internet
wasn't where it
is today.
However,
we would go out
and we come back
when the lights
came on, right?
And I would go in
just in a row, we
had Margaret, one
of my mother's
friends, and our
friends, I'd be
going in there
popping.
I'd just maybe
put my hand in
the biscuit tin
and say hello,
and I'd go to the
next house.
And like
everybody knew
everybody, you
know, there was a
100% respect for
adults, for
elders when you
walk down the
street and you
did feel like a
community.
So although we
didn't have a
lot, you know, we
went to food
banks, I
witnessed a lot
going on with my
parents arguing
over money all
the time.
We had, some of
our Christmases
were great, but
the other 364
days were hard,
you know, because
the lower you had
community and
everybody's in a
similar space,
when you're
living in that
and, you know,
your Christmas
day is made up of
provident loans
and shopper check
loans and Kay's
catalogue and
Littlewood's
catalogue and,
you know, IOUs
with everybody
that will let you
have one, as you
got a little bit
older, probably
when I got to
nine or 10, I
started realising
that what we were
getting for a
year for
Christmas
actually cost us
a whole year of
like peace, I
suppose, you
know, because
anything that we
would be doing or
talking about
would be money
and work and
money and bills
and debts that
need to be paid.
So, yeah, there
was probably a
two pronged
attack there
where you were
going
through that.
But when you're
out in the
street, everyone
was smiling,
everyone was
happy, everyone's
in the same
position.
You know, there
was no
comparison.
We were all just
living the same
life and that
felt good.
Yeah, no, it is
really powerful
and that's
obviously not to
take away from
the struggles.
Of course, I do
think I don't
think money buys
happiness, but it
definitely sort
of buys the
freedom to not
worry about
having to be able
to provide for
your family or to
be able to go.
And it just helps
alleviate that
sort of stress,
as you know, very
little, will sort
of drive or
stress levels up
or destroy your
health fast and
that sort of
financial
pressure.
So, yeah, no,
it's definitely
something to sort
of be aware of.
But yeah, I think
what I was just
trying to sort of
point to is maybe
that that silver
lining of that
community, which
is definitely
something again,
like I mentioned
that we are
missing today.
We are.
I completely
agree with that.
Simon, before we
dig into
the guts,
actually, that's
a poor
choice of words.
Let me
rephrase that.
Before we sort of
dive into the
conversation
today and
actually that's
also cliched.
All right, let's
just go with it.
I'd love to sort
of talk about
your recent
experience
with Awake.
Now, I know I
don't know to
what extent
you're involved
in putting it
together, but I
do know that our
mutual friend,
Andrew
McLaughlin, along
with Jamie,
so his second
name escapes me.
Yeah, we're
instrumental in
putting the whole
event together.
And for those in
the audience who
maybe don't know,
Awake, from my
understanding of
it, is sort of a
getaway or a
treat, maybe, for
the better word,
or that aims to
sort of help
individuals sort
of break through
mental barriers
and discover how
to sort of move
forward in life,
especially from
Andrew's side
with the
transformational
coaching.
And I know there
was blood work
involved and some
physical
parameters that
were
measured as well.
But could you
sort of speak to
your experience
with the event,
though, maybe how
involved and what
you took away
from it?
Yeah, 100
percent.
So Awake.
Well, like I
said, really, the
start off is wow.
Like this.
I've been in the
wellness space
for a little
while in terms of
maybe just
getting an
understanding of
myself, because
that's all we
ever will really
understand is
ourselves more than
anything else.
And Andrew and
Jamie are very
good
friends of mine.
And Jamie kind of
give birth to
this idea that he
would have a
community which
was just Jamie
and friends.
So it would be
just him.
No titles, no egos.
It's very Welsh.
Yeah, you know.
And with myself
and Andy and
other people
being very close
with Jamie, Jamie
was very keen to
have some of us
on board.
Now, for myself,
I didn't have the
time really to
commit to what
was needed really
to pull something
like this off
where, you know,
Andrew and Jamie
very much put a
lot of effort
into it.
And they really
designed
something that is
different.
It is different.
You know, it's
we're not just on
a retreat, we
reconnect into
source and that
sources us and
kind of what they
delivered.
Across the whole
of the event
really was
conscious
connection.
It really was a
conscious
connection to
ourselves and
conscious
connection
to others.
And that was like
for everybody, a
really special
moment, because
once you got in
there, it wasn't
probably until
all of us got
home that we got
out of it.
You know, we
connected and
stay connected
every day, all
day through over
coffee in the
morning, through
the walks we were
on, through the
yoga, the
meditation, the
rope work, the
breath work,
the
learning centre.
And one of the
breakthrough I
had actually,
which was quite a
big breakthrough
for me, everyone
had one.
And I kind of I
was simmering on
it for a
little while.
And then when I
was there, I kind
of I got it when
I was doing my
facilitation of
my talk.
And it was that
we talked about
my father passing
obviously 32
years ago today.
So let's say 32
years ago, minus
two weeks was the
last time that I
spoke to my
father two weeks
before he passed.
And at that age,
I'd made a
decision, a
conscious
decision with my
mum to say, I
don't want to see
my father again.
I could see him
changing.
And I didn't want
to see him any
different way
than what
I knew him.
And when I think
back now of like
my middle boy is
13, I think of
him making those
decisions.
I can't
quantify it.
However, on that
last time I see
my father, I sat
there with my
brother, Peter,
and he said,
promise me you
will look after
your mother and
your siblings.
He said, your brother
and sister.
At which point I
said, I will.
And for 30 years,
not until two
years ago, my
mother
passed away.
I realized I
lived that, Rob.
I lived it right
in all my
decisions,
although me and
my siblings might
have fell out a
little bit.
Me and my mother,
a little bit at
different times.
I put them first
over everything,
over my
relationships,
over my career.
Whatever was
needed
financially,
emotionally, I'd
done my best to
show up at all
times to fulfill
this promise.
And when I was
speaking,
I kind of
realized I'd
never really
managed to put
all the pieces
together.
I'd always say to
people, maybe
come from a more
egoic standpoint.
I don't know.
I've like, oh,
yeah, I did this.
I did that.
And then I'd look
at my
relationship, my
marriage, I had
broke down once
or twice.
And I looked at
previous
relationships
and, you know, I
looked at
sacrifices
that I made.
But all in all,
it was all about
I made a promise
to my dad and I'm
going to keep it.
And it was only
when my mother
passed away,
things
started to change.
I started to feel a
different light.
I didn't feel as
drawn to make
sure that
everybody else
was OK
over myself.
And I was almost
prepared to let
go of things a
bit more.
And in a wake,
that was probably
my breakthrough.
I really managed
to crystallize
that into an
understanding
that my father
never meant it
the way I
took it.
And as human
beings, we take
things sometimes
how we believe
they're said, not
as they said.
And that then
affects us into
making judgment
and decisions
that are
not right.
And there's no
way my father,
maybe in 13,
expected me to
spend 30 years
doing that.
He meant it
probably in just
to me a favor,
kids, look after
your mother and
your brother
and sister.
Yeah, it's it's
definitely
interesting.
And I suppose
just looking at
it, that that's
how your 13 year
old self would
maybe
understand that.
I mean, you don't
understand that
sort of nuance as
you do as an
adult, do you?
You don't
understand that
speaking as an
adult, that isn't
as much pressure
when you don't
have that sort of
relative
understanding of
the world.
And you always
will bubble as
your family.
And and and and
that's it.
Then I suppose as
a child, it's
very easy to just
look at something
like that, look
at your father's
instructions and
just sort of
take it on.
As as gospel and
then sort of
carry that
through.
And I think,
yeah, looking
back at my own
childhood, sort
of
retrospectively,
I mean, there
were definitely
sort of
similar issues.
I will not
issues, but
occurrences in my
own childhood and
just
retrospectively
looking
back at them.
I just sort of
think, wow, I
just cook that
completely the
wrong way, not in
a negative sense,
but it just from
the perspective
of that's
all I knew.
If you're
following, if I'm
making any sense.
And then you sort
of you get to
this sort of,
well, I wouldn't
call
myself an adult.
I think I've
grown a bit more
since then, but
not much.
But you sort of
come to this
realization that
actually, no,
that's not what
my childhood was
supposed to be.
Or maybe that's
not what that
parent meant.
And it's just
that just I think
is something that
generally comes
with at least
some level
of, yeah,
growing up is the
wrong term.
But, yeah, sort
of evolving as a
human being.
And but, yeah, I
mean, if you if
you're able to
take that away
from, oh, wait,
that's
incredible.
I think it's
that's magic.
It is, I think a
lot of people
have
breakthroughs
there.
But more so,
it was the
education piece.
It's almost like
you don't know
what you don't
know, right?
And, you know,
as Andrew says it
really well,
actually, I think
it was last two.
Sue was said it
as not knowing is
knowing, you
know, there's
like so many ways
to look at
the world.
But when you find
that deeper
understanding of
self and try to
really connect
with you, you
actually find it
easier to let go
and come to terms
with things.
So, yeah, I would
say for anybody,
whether it was a
wake or another
similar, it's
definitely
something that is
transformative
and will
sit with you.
When you talk
about community,
those of us that
went, we will
have a connection
now for the rest
of our lives,
because it was
such a tight,
conscious moment
over those days
that we couldn't
we couldn't not
not be
connected now.
You know, it was
it was special,
you know, when
there's all about
the diamonds
inside of us,
it's all about
our wisdom and
our intuition and
who we
really are.
That gets clouded
over by the
psychology and
the belief system
that we are bred
into, that we
build up
ourselves.
And then we think
with our
thoughts, but
we're not our
thoughts.
You know, we
never really use
feeling anymore
because it's all
in thinking.
And when you
strip all that
back and all that
psychology back
and you just go
back to you, you
know, I suppose
my my moment of
that happened
when I went to
Switzerland and I
discovered that.
But this was a
different level
of discovery.
I kind of knew
what it felt like
to find myself.
But I still now
and again,
especially when I
think back with
my parents and my
mother and stuff,
I was still being
somebody else
that I thought
someone wanted me
to be as opposed
to just being me.
Yeah, it sounds
like a
particularly
effective magic
mushroom ceremony
without the magic
mushrooms.
I think we tried
to order some in,
but it wasn't any
available.
Okay,
I should hold me.
I have sources,
don't you worry.
Yeah, no.
Yeah, obviously
we just and
psychedelics
should only be
used sort of in
controlled
situations.
But yeah, it
sounds like an
amazing event.
I'm sorry, I
couldn't make it
this time around.
I know there will
be I know you'll
be hosting it
annually, though,
and there will be
daily
events as well.
So twice a year.
Yeah.
So we have every
April and I think
it's November the
first to the
fifth this year.
So we'll have
twice a year.
We'll be having
the event plus
we'll be doing
day events in
between to give
people tasters of
what it's like to
experience it.
But, you know,
that is just
going to
be a taste.
It won't be the
same as being,
you know, away,
you know, with a
group of people
having the
constant
conscious
connection.
Of course not.
You can't expect
that sort of
immersion in one
day, although, to
be honest, it's
sort of
sunny oils.
It's probably a
bad
experience either.
So what we'll do
for those listing
if anyone is
interested in a
way, we'll just
we'll link to it
in the show notes
and yeah, just
get all the URLs
in there for
anyone who would
like to
follow up.
OK,
I'm coming.
I think I better
get us back on
track of this.
We'll be
here all day.
I'm sorry.
I'm like a bag
pie to see
something shiny
and I'm off on a
tangent.
So yeah, make of
that what
you will.
OK, I think that
was kind of a
really nice segue
to what I'd like
to start talking
about next, which
which is this
concept of stress
and which will
also be great for
the rest of
conversation.
Now, everyone's
heard a stress,
of course, and
it's essentially
and essentially
what it is and
that is sort of
an issue in high
amounts and that
it can sort of
damage
our bodies.
But I think what
most people sort
of fail to
realize is that
we do require a
certain amount of
stress to
function.
Can you break
down obviously
sort of with your
understanding of
stress having
worked or working
with a
sound time?
What stresses and
why we need it to
to some extent
optimally
function, but
then also why too
much of it can be
an issue?
Yeah, I
definitely can.
I think like from
myself, you know,
I'll have my own
view on it.
I'm not a medical
practitioner.
So for me, it's
just the way I've
come to learn it
through my own my
own ways of
dealing
with stress.
You know, I've
had a lot of dark
times myself.
You know, I've
been rock bottom
a few times
in my life.
And yeah, I've
had some really
dark times, dark
thoughts.
So for me, stress
is really is
pressure, right?
It's pressure on
our mental,
physical being.
And essentially
we release
chemicals like
adrenaline and
cortisol.
And these these
generally happen
when we're in a
flight or fight
response.
Now,
stress is
positive, right?
Because like when
you become
motivated, when
you become
focused, when you
want to grow
through personal
growth, having
stress is good
because you're
putting yourself
under pressure to
complete
something, to
achieve
something, to go
somewhere.
Right.
So that is not a
bad thing
to have that.
The problem kind
of really comes
where we remain
in flight or
fight for long
periods of time.
And we go into
chronic, chronic
stress, really.
And that is for
prolonged periods
of time, that's
hard then.
Because when
you're in that
state, it kind of
can trigger also
like health
conditions that
you've got.
You know, if
you've got
underlying health
conditions, you
know, with your
heart, with your
blood pressure,
you know, it
could be a
digestive system,
many different
things, really.
That that's when
it really
affects us.
And what some of
us tend to do
then is we we
turn to bad
habits because we
turn to things to
relieve
our stress.
So it could be
drink, it could
be drugs, it
could be
overeating, it
could be over
consuming TV
programs and sit
in, it could be
doom scrolling.
Yeah.
So we naturally
look for
something to give
us a dopamine hit
to keep us going.
And then when it
falls off, we
kind of sit
ourselves in this
state there
really where we
we become stuck.
And that's really
how I would say I
would explain how
stress is.
So it is a
good thing.
But when you
allow it to
take over,
you know, when
you're in your
body really, when
you start
releasing
adrenaline at
first, it's not a
bad thing.
Even when you
produce cortisol
at first is not a
bad thing.
But too much of
it can out
balance your
system and then
it affects your
serotonin levels,
which puts you
out of balance.
And with that,
I think people
almost feel lost.
They feel like
they're not able
to to do anything
because they're
in this position
where they're all
out of balance
and they're like,
right, I don't
feel
confident now.
I don't feel
focused now.
I don't feel I
can do something.
I think that's
that's why stress
is such a major
player in
people's
lives today.
Hi, I know it
definitely is.
I'd love to sort
of help wrap that
up for the
audience
in a second.
But do you think
whether any
stresses, I mean,
you chatted about
your arterial
fibrillation
earlier and your
heart condition.
Did that was
acting genital
under that sort
of first appear
when you you said
28 was when you
first started
experiencing
symptoms?
Is that correct?
Well, I started
experiencing.
It made it must
have been
late 20s.
Yeah, well,
yeah, 2728.
Okay.
I used to work
out a lot.
And I used to
work hard.
So I used to a
lot of hours in the
corporate world.
I used to go to
the gym five, six
days a week,
working hard and
I wasn't really
ever a big
drinker.
But we had a
newborn, I must
be 26 when
Brandon was born.
So it was like,
you know, I was a
newish
relationship at a
bought a new
house, a
new baby.
And I was
definitely a lot
of things going
on in my life.
But the heart
condition is
something that
people have when
they're not
stressed.
So I'm not sure
it was
caused by that.
But what
it did do,
of course, yeah,
did just
exacerbated.
I'm sure it was
hugely a
congenital issue.
But yeah, yeah,
hugely
exasperated it.
I remember being
in periods where
obviously until
I, till I really
understood what
was happening.
All I know is
that I
would be there.
I'd feel dizzy.
Yeah.
And I would be
like kind of
burping a lot
because there'd
be a lot going on
in in my chest.
And it was trying
to operate still
because I didn't
know what it was.
So I'd be trying
to operate
as I would.
And I remember
times, you
know, where,
well, two times
when I remember
when Brandon was
playing me up,
I'd say to him,
look, you've made
my heart go now.
Because the
anxiety of
thinking it was
going to happen.
And then it
happened.
And I got to the
point Rob where
if I stood up too
fast, my heart
would race.
Now, at this
time, I didn't
realise he was
racing
200, 200, 250.
All I know is I'd
stand up and I'd
be like, and then
like, Brandon
would ask me to
play with him
every night.
Obviously, this
went on
for years.
So this is where
I had my probably
one of my darkest
depressions
because I got to
a point in my
life where I got
to 17 stolen
weights.
And I could not
run four or five
meters at my
heart going.
I was on
medication, I had
an operation.
But it was still
not right.
So I literally
used to get
anxious about
doing something.
And then I would
have this problem
with my
heart racing.
So yeah, it's
definitely
exasperated.
Everything went
on in life was
definitely
exasperated
because that
moment of stress
would get
it to go.
And then I'd be
living in this
this period of
time down where
it was really,
really
hard, you know.
I'm sorry, this
is where I sort
of started
a bit nerdy.
Did you by ever
sort of
experienced any
sort of what's
called
orthostatic
hypertension sort
of get up and
sort of sit down?
Did you get
disease spells
lightheaded or
anything
like that?
All the time.
Does it
still happen?
It doesn't now.
No, it doesn't.
They've managed
to get my
medication right.
So I've been back
in the gym for
almost two
years now.
But, you know,
that's from so
I've gone back in
the gym at the
age of 44.
But I hadn't been
in the gym since
the age of 27.
So it was a
long time.
And in that
period of time, I
always
experienced it.
I remember being
in the showroom
when I was
selling vehicles
to in Land Rover.
Many years ago,
and people would
be talking to me
and I'd be
talking to them
knowing I'm about
to faint.
I just I
don't know.
I've always had
this resilience
where I know some
people cleverly
would probably
go, sorry, I'm
not
feeling too good.
I want to
go home.
Where I would
just stay there.
I would just
breathe through
it and try and
get through it
all the time.
And one thing I
could do really
was take long
deep breaths in
through the nose
and then slow the
breath out
through the mouth
to try and slow
it down.
So, yeah, I
experienced
that a lot.
Yeah, it's called
vagus syncope,
that feeling of
wanting to faint.
And there's
definitely some
literature there
that suggests
that thiamine
might affect the
vagus nerve, the
connection to the
heart and that
those what's
called, again,
that authors that have tension.
So when you stand
up, you sit down,
you feel like
you're
going to faint.
So we'll have to
send you some and
see if it helps.
But yeah,
anyway, again,
sorry, off topic
completely.
I think if I was
to just summarize
that for the
audience and your
answer was
perfect,
by the way,
the way I
understand it is
that when an
individual sort
of experiences
chronic stress,
they get, as you
alluded to an
increase in these
certain various
hormones, things
like cortisol,
glucagon, all of
which, as well as
catecholamines,
again, these sort
of paracene
derived
neurotransmitters
that you were
talking about
things like
adrenaline and
nordrin and
epinephrine for
anyone listening
for America.
And in the short
term, those those
are required.
Those are
hormones and
neurochemicals
that help the
body to sort of
survive in acute
sort of settings
and circumstances
if you're well,
we're not running
away from targets
anymore.
But if you have
that desperate
need to sort of
get away from
something,
whatever it is,
it provides that
instant surge of
energy and
release of
glucose,
release of
dopamine to act
quickly.
But as you
alluded to,
when it becomes
chronic, these
stress hormones,
they start to
drive, they start
to negatively
interfere with
the immune system
and you cause an
increase in
inflammation.
So I'd like to
say going to
talking about
meditation and
how it can be
used to help
start mitigating
stress and how it
can be a really
effective tool in
helping to
improve the
symptoms that
someone is likely
struggling with
when they're
under a high load of stress.
But first, would
you mind sort of
breaking down
what
meditation is?
Because I think a
lot of people
still sort of
just purely
associate
meditation with
sort of sitting
cross-legged in
the sort of the
lotus position
with your fingers
pursed together
like this and
coming or box
breathing.
And there's
obviously a lot
more to it
than that.
But yeah,
so I suppose you
got mindfulness
and meditation.
You know, people
ask, you know,
are they the
same thing?
Meditation is the
practice.
Yeah, really.
Meditation is the
practice that we
take in being
mindful.
So it's
practicing being
present and it
doesn't have to
be done.
Sat on a cushion
in the corner.
It can be
integrated into
everyday life.
You know,
just by,
for instance,
you know, you
could be in work,
you could be sat
there, you could
be focusing on
something
on your desk.
Yeah.
You could set
yourself in your
chair wherever
you are, feel the
ground under your
feet, feel the
chair on your
back and you
could just focus
on an object and
really start
focusing on
your breath.
Feel the breath
come in and out
of your nose and
out of your mouth
and you could
take yourself to
a present
moment there.
It could be done
even when you're
walking.
You know, I do a
lot of my
meditation
practices through
the day as well
as it is might be
in the morning or
evening because
I'm in a position
where I know I
can meditate,
which my practice
and in my
practice I become
mindful and in my
mindfulness I
become aware.
And that
awareness then
allows me to see
my thoughts and
try and
understand my
body and where
they're going,
where it's
leading me to be
able to frame
certain things
that are
happening in my
life to stop
myself getting
into a stressful
situation and
using that
awareness.
So for me,
meditation really
is the practice
that we do in,
you know, taking
ourselves to the
present moment.
And that's sort
of where
mindfulness comes
into the picture.
Is that correct?
Obviously
mindfulness is a
form of
meditation.
How does it sort
of maybe differ
from other types
of meditation
specifically?
The way I see it,
it's about trying
to keep your mind
centered on
the moment.
And like you
alluded to
earlier, you can
sort of really
meditate
anywhere.
And I personally
find that for me,
unless it's
guided, walking
meditations are
effective.
Could you sort of
speak to
mindfulness maybe
a little more
specifically?
I could.
So when you put
yourself into a
position of
mindfulness, so
when you become,
when you practice
it and become
more aware,
then it actually
produces better
brain chemistry
as well.
And the parts of
the brain that it
improves are
happiness,
peace.
And in
that, it's,
so the amygdala
in the brain
becomes very
reactive and
stressful
situation.
And what it does
with mindfulness
and becoming
aware, it tends
to stop that from
becoming
overreactive.
Yeah.
Which allows you
to stay in a more
peaceful state
more regularly.
It's a bit of a
check, yeah.
Yeah.
So when we're in,
you mentioned
earlier,
obviously we're
not going to
chase by tigers
anymore.
Well, some people
are still, I
think, but, you
know, not
many of us.
Yeah.
And when we allow
our thoughts to
overtake reality,
when we're
worried about
what happened
yesterday, or
we're worried
about what's
going to happen
tomorrow, but
those two things
really don't
exist anymore.
The only thing that
exists is now.
And right now,
you know, you
could be in a
really
great state.
When you have
that awareness
that you come
through
mindfulness to
understand that
actually I'm not
in danger
right now.
There is
no danger.
There's nothing
attacking me that
I am peaceful.
I am happy.
I am in a great
place right now.
That's where we
can then build the habit.
And when we build
a habit of
understanding
that, it gets
stronger and
stronger.
And then we
integrate it into
our daily life.
And it's almost
like the unseen
helper, because
all of a sudden
you're getting
better at
something that
you don't
actually notice
you're getting better at.
Because it's
really hard to
measure how many
times I've been
stressed today.
Right.
But mindfulness
is the key
really, to
unlocking the
door to happiness
and peace, and
coming away from
the unreal
thoughts, the
negative
thoughts, and
living in the
present moment.
Okay, so if I
understand this
properly, and
please correct me
if I get it
wrong, so probably well.
What mindfulness
is doing is it's
sort of helping
to get you
momentarily into
a more sort of
parasympathetic
or rest or digest
state that then
allows your mind,
your body to sort
of upregulate the
sort of state in
neuroplasticity
to sort of
increase your,
not maybe not
awareness, but
your ability to
learn, to take
and to reinforce,
to develop new
habits that you
can then
utilize on a sort
of a more sort of
unconscious basis
going throughout
the day.
Is that sort of
ish a decent
overview?
Yeah, 100%.
I think it's,
there's so many
areas of our, we
talked about
earlier, there's
so many areas of
our chemicals, so
many chemicals
that are affected
by our thoughts,
by our state of
mind to
where we are.
If you can
mention, if you
can keep yourself
in a
parasympathetic
state more often,
or even bring
yourself back
there quicker,
you know, then
you become
stronger, you
grow more grey
matter in your
brain, and you
strengthen that
part of you,
scientifically
proven that, you
know, there's
been many,
many tests,
done a lot of MRI
tests and scans
to show that the
grey matter in
your brain can
grow and
increase, and
then you can
build that habit.
And then it's
almost like, you
know, becoming
stronger
at the gym.
And then when you
go in and lift
something in your
house, or you're
carrying the bags
in or doing
something, all of
a sudden things
just become
easier and they
become more
natural.
And that's really
what mindfulness
is, is just about
awareness of
where you're going.
Where your mind
wants to go, but
where you
actually are, and
bringing yourself
back to that
present moment,
reducing the
stress from your
body, which then
has all the
positive effects,
opposite to the
negative effects
of stress,
you know.
Yeah, no,
definitely.
And it's, it's
just interesting
that you sort of
brought
all that up.
There's a
relatively new
field of what you
might call, and I
suppose being
spearheaded by a
guy called Dr Leo
Prembok, who is a
medical
biochemist, and
it focuses very
much on this link
between
psychology,
immunology, and
the nervous
system, and how
when the mind
essentially is
out of sync, and
you're in this
sympathetic or
fight and flight
mode, that you
then really start
to drive this
immune system
dysregulation,
like we'll talk
about earlier,
which then drives
the development
of disease.
And it just
speaks to how
powerful tools
like mindfulness
are and helping
to get you back
into this
parasympathetic
state like you
alluded to
earlier, and
allowing the body
to then refine
that homeostasis.
I suppose, Simon,
this is probably
a great time to
start talking
about Samton.
As I mentioned
earlier, I played
around with the
free trial
offline.
And yeah, it's
amazing.
I do like it.
It's simple.
It's clean.
The only other
app that I've
sort of, that's
come close to it
for me anyway
was, is it Sam or
Dan Harris, one
of them, and his
waking up app
that was that was
also fixed, but
four times
the price.
So, I mean, the
fact that yours
is a bonus.
Can you sort of
talk us through
your sort of
involvement in
the company and
then, yeah, what
sort of sets it
apart, I know
that you have
Geelong,
Tibooten, Tipton,
I'm going to
butcher that
involved.
Yeah,
how Sam, Sam Tan,
excuse me,
different.
So,
Sam Tan was born
many years ago,
actually, it's
still pretty much
in the startup
stage, I guess,
because of
different
reasons.
But he was born
many years ago.
So,
one of the
co-founders,
Jamie Watkins, he
broke his back
running a
marathon.
He's still
completely
marathon.
How do you
manage that?
I know.
And then after
that, he then
took up yoga and
he took up, you
know, a lot of
mindfulness
practices really
to get him
through a tough
moment, in which
case he found
himself in a
monastery.
At this
monastery, he
found
Geelong Tipton.
And Jamie had
been in the tech
space for a
long time.
And he said to
Tipton, I'll
build it, you'll
be the teacher.
And they
said, yes.
So, hence,
that was it.
They built
something that
was referred to
as a bike with no
handlebars, I
suppose, where
the idea
was there,
but it couldn't
get it to work.
So, I then came
along, I invested
in the company.
And at first, I
didn't know if
I'd have any
involvement in
the company.
I did invest to
be a part of it.
I invested to
invest because I
really loved what
it stood for.
And I was kind
of, I was on my
own journey of
looking at myself
really and
growing.
And then once I
had done that, I
couldn't help
want to be
involved.
One, because it
was such a great
project and two,
that Jamie
Watkins was kind
of, the best way
to put it
really, he's,
you just want to
be around him,
you know?
So, yeah,
that was it.
I got involved
and then somehow
it just kind of
snowballed into a
point where I
helped lead quite
a few of the
areas we were
pushing on and
then
become the CEO.
And now I lead
the company.
And over the last
few years,
something's never
really had the
full focus.
We released it.
We've had like,
you know, I think
we've had tens of
thousands of
sessions
completed by
users all over
the world.
But there's
something about
it, which pushed
on to your
question really
of why it's
different, is I
was running a
festival company,
Jamie was doing
other stuff and I
left that
festival company
a year ago where
you could focus
on something.
And in that we
restrategized.
And the USP, for
me, of what we
are, is we got
the educational
platform.
So we got a
30-day foundation
journey.
Which really
helps teach guide
people to learn
the art of what
meditation and
mindfulness is,
but also how you
integrate it into
daily life.
And in our 30-day
program, we take
you through step
by step and
they're all
guided by
Tuktung,
you know?
They're all
separate guided
meditations.
And really, the
aim is to help
build a habit.
So we offer it
not just to
consumer, but
also to employees
and companies.
So they can help
their employees
become more
compassionate to
themselves, to
others, more
productive, more
efficient and
kinder, which
help them with
less stress in
the workplace and
more recruitment,
sustainability
for the
companies really.
So in that,
there's like
another 150
sessions.
For instance,
there's one of
them which is on
motivation.
And in there,
Tuktung will,
it's almost like
a life coach at
the beginning.
He talks about
motivation and
the opposite to
that, which is
procrastination.
And then through
procrastination,
the negative side
of that,
you know?
And the fact that
we haven't got a
lot of time and
we need to get on
with stuff and we
want to achieve
things, you know?
And help you then
find your
motivation, then
you move into a
meditation with
him, you know?
And you find your
breath and you
get into the
present moment.
And I think
that's why I
think we're
different.
Like, what I kind
of say to people
is Netflix, you
turn it on at
nine o'clock, you
don't choose your
film for
Outlast 9.
Outlast 10, you
pause it and you
watch the rest
tomorrow.
Right?
There's some
companies out
there, like one
company is a
billion dollar
wellness tech
company, the
first one.
And their app is
amazing visually
what they've got
content.
It's brilliant.
But it's not the
direction we want
to be in.
Our direction is
we want to be all
more simple,
stupid, if you
want to
call it that.
Yeah.
We just do what
we say on
the tin.
Like,
I think what we
try and remember
is people come to
us to practice
and also to help
with overwhelm.
What we don't
want to do is
increase the
overwhelm.
We don't want to
give people a
million options
that they all of
a sudden, their
eyes are open.
They're like,
"Oh, I don't know
what I
want to do.
This looks great.
That
sounds great.
Oh, I love that.
There's a
celebrity.
There's an
artist."
That's not what
we want to be.
We just want to
be very simple.
You come in, you
do your practice,
you feel a
certain way, you
go in, you find
it, you do it,
you get out.
And you just get
on with your day
and integrate it
into your daily
life as opposed
to a platform
where you're just
scrolling through
looking for cool
things to
practice.
And that's why
we're different.
And for some
people, it'll be
exactly
what they want.
And for others,
it'll be a
million miles
away from what
they want.
But there's a
billion people in
the world.
So there's plenty
of people for all
of us to help.
And if we all do
a little bit
each, then
collectively we
achieve our goal.
Yeah, I think it
definitely is an
amazing platform.
And what I really
like about it for
someone who
really struggles
to meditate,
because me trying
to keep my mind
on anything is a
mission, is the
fact that the
first couple of
sessions, you
just
incrementally
build up it from
a time
perspective.
I think the first
one is five
minutes and then
it's seven
minutes, etc.
So it really
helps you to sort
of ease into it,
opposed to just
sort of what I've
found, I've tried
a few apps, and a
lot of them just
sort of throw you
into the
deep end.
And you've got to
sit there for 20
minutes trying to
sort of really
kind of, yeah,
just concentrate
on what you're
supposed
to be doing.
And as you've
alluded to, a lot
of them have
influences in
the, you've got
your Russell
brands, etc.
And then you end
up just sort of
getting
distracted and
doom scrolling
through the
various programs
trying to find
something that
actually you
resonate with.
And by the time
you've done that,
you might as well
have given up
because your time
to meditates long
gone, and you
just sort of got
confused by the
various options.
So, yeah, I think
it's not just
Plunk Smoke, if
you're also promised.
I think it's an
amazing platform
and it's
definitely worth
people's time and
their interest.
I think I've
noticed a few
times in the app
that Tipton has
sort of pointed
to the fact that
it's non
religious.
Now, I'm someone
who's slowly
starting to
explore my faith,
my spirituality,
and it's never
really crossed my
mind that
meditation
is in any way
anti religious,
although it
appears that it
probably is and
that there's at
least some
fraction aspect
of the community
who does have an
interest in maybe
I'm just naive,
but could you
maybe explain
why, what are
your views on why
people's
particularly
strong religious
backgrounds,
maybe have an
issue with
meditation and
see it as
something to be a
way from.
I haven't come
across a lot of
pushback really
in my
conversations
with anybody, but
some people see
Buddhism as a
form of religion
that kind of is
synonymous with
meditation and
there's a balance
with that that,
you know, it may
go against their
beliefs and for
them that's not
it doesn't
suit them.
I just try and
break it
down simply.
It's just it's a
technique
about breath.
First thing we do
when we come into
the world and
last thing we do
before we go out
is breathe and
when we breathe
and how we
breathe has such
an impact on us
as human beings,
you know, that
it's the one
thing that if we
could become
better at
breathing,
although we do it
naturally without
thinking, we
could become
better at
understanding our
breath, then it
would make us
feel better and
if we can make it
if we can feel
better, we can
make others feel
better and then
we can
help, you know,
be enjoy life bit
more, be a bit
happier, be a bit
more at peace.
So the religious
side of it, I
don't really pay
that much
attention to.
I just think it's
breath and yeah,
that's kind of my
answer really
might be a bit
long winded for
you there, Rob,
but it's that's
how I see it.
That's perfect
and I just sort
of I suppose
everyone's going
to have their own
take at the end
of the day, but I
don't see why
there should be
an issue with it.
As you've alluded
to, it's just
it's just a
practice that is
being developed
or over eons to
help individuals
find their center
and find the sort
of this
parasympathetic
state and I
suppose maybe
that's the fault
of the media to a
large extent.
The fact that
it's been
portrayed is
something that is
I suppose anti
Christian for the
most part and it
shouldn't be,
which is
definitely
something I think
people and maybe
this sounds a bit
harsh, but sort
of just need to
realize that it's
not about
Yeah, it's not
about choosing
sides or losing
focus on your
God,
whoever that is.
It's just about
finding balance
within yourself.
Some of these
people see Rob
would they'd find
peace in their
way, right?
They could be
reading say a
Bible or a Quran
or they could be
reading that and
if they're
peaceful at that
time, if they're
in a
parasympathetic
state and they're
trusting that
situation,
they're maybe
achieving exactly
the same
state of peace.
It really is as
we say the breath
work can achieve.
So, you know,
there's no right
or wrong.
I think it's each
to their each to
their own really
to find a way of
getting their
mind into
that state.
Yeah, definitely.
Simon, you've
been a star, but
before I let you
go, I'd just love
to run you
through a few
rapid fire
questions if
that's okay.
Yeah, yeah,
of course.
Perfect.
Okay, so morning
or evening
meditation, which
you prefer?
I prefer morning,
but I do also do
quite a bit
through the day.
If you could
recommend one
book on
mindfulness, if
you've got any
favorites, what
would it be?
So the two books
really, I don't
know if it's seen
as being
mindfulness, but
Eckhart Tolle,
The Power of Now
is a huge,
I've done it
twice now and so
twelve hours long
and audible
because I can't
sit and read.
I'm interested that that's a
profound
human being.
They're still
giving us all so
much stuff today.
And then Galang
Tupdens Amongst
Guide to
Happiness,
you know, like
Tupden is 30
years as a
practicing monk,
you know, sat six
years in
retreats, taught
all over the
world to all the
largest companies
to
thousands of people.
He again is a
profound human
being that I
would recommend
anybody to read
his book.
Perfect.
If someone is
skeptical about
meditation,
what's the first
thing they
should try?
Meditation.
Fair enough.
That's all you
could do really
is just
practice it.
You're already
breathing.
You're just
paying attention
to breath as
opposed to just
breathing
normally without
paying attention.
Yeah.
OK.
And last one,
what is the
biggest mistake
people make with
meditation when
they first start?
So this one, I
think people
expect their
thoughts to stop.
And because they
haven't stopped,
they think
they're
doing it wrong.
Now,
it's like going.
I use this train
to the plane
analogy for lots
of things really
in life.
When we're in the
train is
everything's like
fast, right?
Everything was
super fast.
You look at the
window of a
train, you'll see
something for a
split second.
Right.
Go on.
When you're in a
plane, we
go faster.
Right.
We have a better
view and
everything
looks slower.
So how can we go
faster in
something but
everything
looks slower?
Right.
And it's because
of where we are.
So even though we
still have
thoughts when
we're meditating.
Yeah.
We just ignore
them and we've
got a breath and
they come and
they go.
They come and
they go.
And we just got
to ignore them.
It doesn't mean
we're
doing it wrong.
It just means
that we're
just human.
And that's
how it works.
And allowing
yourself the time
really to have
your intuition.
Take place
because sometimes
you'll think of
things that
you've been going
so fast.
You didn't even
have time to
think of.
You think of
something.
You might not
have your best
idea you've ever
had that has been
traveling around
in 80,000
thoughts every
single day and
then moving so
fast you can't
grab it.
And then all of a
sudden you slow
them down and
there it is.
Actually, I'll
hold on to that
thought.
So I think that's
the one
thing for me.
People think that
the world is
going to stop and
it doesn't.
It's just you
going into a
present moment.
That is the
perfect place to
end, I think.
Simon, where can
people find you
in Sampton if
they want to
explore the app
further?
So you can find
us on the App
Store and
Google Store.
Just look for
Sampton.
I think they'll
download us.
We have a new
version
of the app.
Come in as well
shortly.
And then you can
find us at my
Sampton.com,
which is our
website, which
will tell you
more about how we
work with
education sector,
how we work with
the corporate
business world
and people.
And you'll also
find us on
Instagram where
you'll find us on
there under my
Sampton as well.
So yeah, feel
free to join our
community.
You can sign up.
We produce
newsletters, etc.
And for myself,
you can find me
as Simon Dalv on
LinkedIn, where I
probably put a
lot of content
out and I'm happy
to speak to
anybody who might
want some more
information.
Perfect.
We'll be sure to
link all of those
links in the
show notes.
Simon, thank you
so much for
coming on today.
It was an
insightful
conversation and
I look forward to
having another
one soon.
Lovely.
Thank you, Rob.
Appreciate it.
Appreciate
the invite.