>> Viktoria: Hey, and welcome to a new episode of Worlds Collide, the podcast where I talk to people who moved abroad. I am your host, Viktoria, and I'm so glad that you're here today. So before I start, I just wanted to let you know that in case you really like this podcast, there are two ways that you could support it. So the first one would be, hey, just leave a five star rating for this podcast wherever you listen to it. If you listen, to app, whole podcast, then you could also just write one short sentence why you like it so much. Because if a podcast has more ratings, the more people tune in. So get more people to listen to this. And then there is another way how you could support this podcast. I just set up a buy me a coffee so you could also buy me a coffee. this way you could just, whatever, make sure that I'm super motivated for the next episode for recording, for editingus. Podcasting is a lot of fun but also sometimes takes a lot of time. However you decide to do it. I would, I appreciate it. And because I just mentioned the buy me a coffee thing, by the way, it's buy me a coffee, Worlds Collide. you will find the link in the show notes, but I wanna do a quick shout out to my first supporter or the first person who bought me a coffee. Thank youhp for this coffee. I could buy even like two or three cups of coffee and even leave a tip. That was so generous. you really made my day.
This week's episode is very strong contrast between Sweden and Barbados
All right, now enough of that. I wanna come to this week's episode. So this week's episode is very strong contrast, as it already says in the title. My guest moved from Barbados to Sweden. So we talk about like her contrast between the two countries. We also talk about her personal development, coaching for expats or other people who need it. Yeah, we talk about like all contrast, Sweden and Barbados and like what are like some weird facts that she had to get used to and some examples how people reacted to her. so listen in. It's a really nice episode, really insightful and I hope you will like it. And here it is. Here's my talk with Jackie.
Jackie came to Sweden in April 2011 to work with a church group
>> Viktoria: So my guest today is Jackie. Hey, how are you today?
>> Jackie: Hey, Viktoria. I'm doing well, thank you.
>> Viktoria: Thank you for being here.
>> Jackie: Oh man, I'm so excited to be here. Thank for having me.
>> Viktoria: Of course. So tell me, where are you?
>> Jackie: I am in a town in Sweden called Y Jan Sheirping.
>> Viktoria: where is that?
>> Jackie: So Sweden is a long country and if most of the population I would Say lives more towards the last third, the southern third. So if you're coming from Gothenburg, you're basically going east. And when you're halfway across the country, you come to Y. shring. It's at the base of the second largest lake in Sweden called Vettean.
>> Viktoria: Ah. Ah, okay. Well, second largest lake. That already sounds very pretty to me.
>> Jackie: It is, is very, very pretty. I am. It's always nice to go there because I live about 6km away from the lake. So it's always nice to go there in the summer and see the water shining on. Sorry, the. The sun shining onto the water.
>> Jackie: It's very pretty. And it's such a big lake that it looks like sea more than lake.
>> Viktoria: Okay, and how many, how, long have you been in Sweden?
>> Jackie: I came here in April 2011.
>> Viktoria: Oh, wow. Okay. And why did you pick, Sweden?
>> Jackie: I came here to work with a church related organization back in 2011. I had been with the organization in South Africa and then I moved here and I've been here since then.
>> Viktoria: Okay, and do you remember why you wanted to stay? I mean, was that the plan, when you went in the beginning?
>> Jackie: No, I think in my head I was thinking two to five years because I realized that if you're going to be in a new place, it takes time to settle in.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: But the longer I stayed, the longer I wanted to be here. Even with the struggles and everything, it started to feel more like home than my whole country.
>> Jackie: Y.
>> Viktoria: And where is your home country?
>> Jackie: I'm from an island in the Caribbean called Barbados.
>> Viktoria: Oh, you're from Barbados. O so wait, you were from where Rihanna is from?
>> Jackie: Exactly.
>> Viktoria: Okay, well that is so different. I mean, come on, like palm trees, beaches, and then Sweden. Cold, very pretty nature, but also very dark and not as warm.
>> Jackie: Yes, exactly. And that part, the darkness and the cold together can be quite a struggle.
>> Viktoria: Oh yeah, I bet.
>> Jackie: From my Caribbean body, you know, Caribbean mind U. Uh-huh. But Sweden is really beautiful and I think both countries have, you know, their problems, but also have the things that, that endear you to them, that make you love them. Yeah, they're both beautiful in their own ways.
>> Viktoria: Yeah. And so do you still struggle with the darkness every year? Every year. So, do you do anything for it? So I just, I'm just like telling you why I'm asking this. So I just was scrolling through Reddit, through the expats subreddit, and there was this one post from this girl, she Moved to Finland. And she's like, it's so daunting. Like, I don't know, A lot of people said, like, have you tried supplements? So I don't know.
>> Jackie: Yeah. So I actually started taking vitamin D soon after I arrived here. the version that they sell in most of the pharmacies is maybe like 25 micrograms. And I was talking to a counselor once because I was struggling with different things, and she, she checked and she said, actually, because your skin is dark and your skin protects you from the sun, you actually need to take more.
>> Viktoria: Ah, ah. Okay.
>> Jackie: So I take at least 100 micrograms a day.
>> Viktoria: Wow.
>> Jackie: And I take it all year round because in Sweden in the summer you can have wonderful sunshine. The sun is up all the time, but sometimes it rains, especially around midsummer. And it can rain for a week.
>> Viktoria: Right.
>> Jackie: And when that happens, it can get not as dark as winter, but it becomes darker. And I remember the first few years, I'THINK why do I feel so tired? Why do I feel so cranky?
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: And I realized I haven't seen the sun in four days because of the rain.
>> Viktoria: Right.
>> Jackie: So I take the vitamin D and then I have at home a sunlmp.
>> Viktoria: A sunlap.
>> Jackie: Yeah, I think that's what they call them. There's a very strong, bulb or lighting as fl.
>> Viktoria: I heard that before. Yes. uh-huh.
>> Jackie: So I don't do it every day. I probably should, but sometimes I just sit when I'm eating breakfast. They say you should do it for an hour. And I have it in front of me as I'm sitting there eating.
You need to take light in through your eyes as well
Because the thing is, you need to take light in through your eyes as well.
>> Viktoria: Through your eyes. Yes, yes.
>> Jackie: So if viamin d all year round, the sun lamp. And I try to make myself go outside every day.
>> Jackie: My brain wants to say, okay, it's cold, it's raining, it's dark. You should stay inside.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Jackie: But you do really need to get out, move, your body a little bit more, get some fresh air. Sometimes it's actually brighter when you go outside and you feel better when you go outside to get exercise and spend time with people as well. I think that has been a great help for me to be able to have times when you can just go and relax with friends and so on.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
Even before I came, I was reading about Swedish culture
Okay. So, talking about that friends, you came with a group, so were you already connected to a lot of people when you came?
>> Jackie: Okay, so I came. I actually came by myself, but had job or volunteer work you already had Oay.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: Yeah. So that was very helpful, I think.
>> Jackie: Because even before I came, I was reading about Swedish culture, and they said that it's very, very, very difficult to make friends with Swedes.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: But then they said, once you made a friend, though, it's like having a friend for life.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: So they're very cautious with that. They can be very friendly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they see you as a friend.
>> Viktoria: yeah. And, Oh, go ahead.
>> Jackie: No, I was just gonna say that that's been important in these years to be able to proactively build friendships with people.
>> Viktoria: Do you remember how you did it?
>> Jackie: I'MADE a lot of mistakes. Iated people a lot, I think, but just because we, you know, the Caribbean, we have a different way of doing things. And I think it was partly not giving up, partly trying to learn the culture. And it really helped that there were people around me who, you know, they were also open to making friends.
>> Viktoria: Yes. Were they also from abroad?
>> Jackie: Yeah, some are, but there are Swedes as well. Like, one of my closest friends, she was the, maid of honor at my wedding. She actually said when she was growing up, she didn't have a lot of foreigners around her, and now she was living in this area where there are lots of foreigners. And she really wanted to have, like, a different upbringing, for her kids and wanted to try and deal with the. Maybe the stereotypes or the misconceptions that she had.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: And somehow we formed a connection when I came to visit before actually moving here. And so she was the one, actually, if it wasn't for her, we wouldn't be friends because she would say, hey, come and have lunch with us. And I thought, oh, she's just being nice to this foreigner. And it took me a while to realize she was actually actively trying to build a friendship. okay, so it's helpful when you have people who want to take that step to risk that.
>> Viktoria: Yes. But it was also, like, you have to be willing to leave all your, thoughts, your negative thoughts behind, like.
>> Jackie: Hm.
>> Viktoria: Yeah. All your doubts.
>> Jackie: Yeah. And sometimes even when they. When something happens that you find offensive to choose which ones you deal with.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: You know, there are things that have been said and done that. I mean, maybe it was where I was as a person as well, that I didn't, like, react to them, but I think it helped that I wasn't reacting every time, somebody never said something offensive.
>> Viktoria: And, is it then mostly because of your Skin color. People said something. Or because you are not from Sweden.
>> Jackie: In general or sometimes because you're a foreigner. the majority of things I've experienced, I don't think the people were trying to be offensive.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, okay, I heard that before. Like, they want to make a joke but then it's not funny to you, but they don't even were aware of it.
>> Jackie: Exactly.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: Or even a very, Well, let's just say that darker skinned women, well, black women actually, women with my kind of hair everywhere will understand this. You know, people think, oh my goodness, your hair is soir different. Let me touch it, let me touch it.
>> Viktoria: Oh my God. I mean, who wants their head to be touched? I mean, you're not five years old anymore. Come on.
>> Jackie: Exactly. And to be honest, at the beginning I was kind of like calm about okay, yeah, I know it's different. I know this is something that you don't quite understand. So with this kind of idea of okay, our hair is different, but it's still here. Some people that I knew, I would say, okay, look. And I made a little fun about it sometimes. I mean, I had a bigger frow and I would, I would make fun a little bit with them and so on. But then I got out of handy, you know, I was at the swimming pool one day and I just showered and changed and was combing out my hair and this woman I've never seen before came up behind me and I was like, oh, so pretty, so pretty. and she started patting my head.
>> Viktoria: Isn't that weird?
>> Jackie: So weird. I mean, must have felt weird toohh my eyes. I just. Because I was looking in the mirror, you know, and I just, I just kind of went like, what? And I opened my eyes and she saw my expression and she just ran off, Right?
>> Viktoria: Yes.
>> Jackie: Like, I don't know how she was thinking what she was thinking, but you know, we try to. There was a point where people didn't understand that it would become so upsetting because it's here. But they don't realize it's still a part of your body. It's like touching your butt or something, you know.
>> Viktoria: Did it happen often?
>> Jackie: There was a point where it was happening often. Some, people would ask, And there was a point where I was, okay, fine, I know you.
>> Viktoria: I.
>> Jackie: No, but there was like. Because it, it happened once in a while. I said, okay, fine. You know, I know this, my hair is different. I know that if you go to the Caribbean, some people will be like, oh, wow, you're hair Is. But then they were. It just got to be,
Sometimes people didn't listen when I first said no
I think disrespectful would be the word.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: You know, not a. Oh, wow. I'm interested in who you are and to learn more about you. I started to feel like an animal in a zoo.
>> Viktoria: Right. Yeah.
>> Jackie: And so I started reacting and sometimes people didn't listen. So I had to really be aggressive about it for them to pay attention.
>> Viktoria: Wow.
>> Jackie: And that was the hardest part, that they didn't listen when I first said no.
>> Viktoria: It's like talking to a little child almost.
>> Jackie: Yeah. There were people who listened and I'm very happy about that. But there were some like, oh, what's the big deal?
>> Viktoria: I, mean, you don't touch their head for whatever. For starter.
>> Jackie: Exactly.
>> Viktoria: You said like, ah, like a minute ago that you were aware of the different culture for the Swedish people. But, did that help, your. I don't know, your mood or your spirit?
>> Jackie: I think it helps a bit when you realize that this. Some of the differences that people have, but it doesn't necessarily, prepare you for how you're going to react to it.
>> Viktoria: Right, Exactly. Yes.
>> Jackie: You know, this could happen, but when it actually happens, it can be like a slap in the face, you know, like, oh my goodness, what is wrong with these people? That can be a reaction you feel inside, you know?
>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah.
Why did you decide to stay in Sweden after all these years
But, in the beginning, were you in the same place where you are now, or did you start in a different town?
>> Jackie: I've always been in this area.
>> Viktoria: U hu. And so, why then did you decide to stay?
>> Jackie: I think it was a mixture of things, including starting to find a community here.
>> Viktoria: And.
>> Jackie: And feeling like I was making progress with the language. Even though it, I mean, even today, after all these years, it's still stressful at times. I still make mistakes, but I started to feel like I was making progress going forward. I think I actually fell in love with the country in some way.
Getting to know people can stir up a love for them, Hu says
>> Viktoria: M h. Can you talk more about that? Why?
>> Jackie: It's a good question. I'm not sure if I can put it into proper words, but I think getting to know some people and not just know them as in hangout a few times, but really getting to know people and seeing who they really are.
>> Viktoria: Is it because, like, they only become like a friend after you tried and tried and tried and then they're like friends for life?
>> Jackie: I think, yeah, it takes time to get to know people. and as you get to know them in like individuals. Yeah, you get closer. I think also getting to know the culture, the people a bit better and appreciate them good and bad, appreciate some of the reasons for the differences. it sort of stirs up a love for them. I don't know how to put it into proper words. It's not like everything has always been perfect. There've been lots of issues. I've struggled. I had struggles with visas and things like that. But I think there was this kind of love developing for them, and feeling also. And this was something that. I'm not sure if I expected this. I started to change. Maybe not completely positively, but some of the changes that were happening in me were very positive. And, I liked them. I liked. Being away from my own culture has allowed me to grow in a way that I would not grow in my own culture.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: And I think there was something about that that I really appreciate as well.
>> Jackie: And as time went on, you know, different things happened. There was a point where maybe I could have gone back, but then there was a pandemic. I, end up getting married.
>> Viktoria: Oh. To sweet.
>> Jackie: Yeah.
>> Viktoria: To, a tall and blonde sweet. Yeah. Like the stereotype pretty much.
>> Jackie: in terms of how he appears. Yeah, yeah. Green, blue eyes, red. Blonde hair.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: Hu. Tall. he does not tan.
>> Viktoria: No. He only gets a sunburn much.
>> Jackie: Yeah.
>> Viktoria: So he's good where he is.
>> Jackie: I mean. Yeah. I mean, he's's. In his appearance. He's typical. But I think there are a lot of things about him that are atypical his worldview and so on. So he. We've been friends. I think I met him when I came to visit before living here. so we've been friends for quite a long time. He. I think it'd say he's curious about. Not just about the world, but he's curious and likes to know things and so on to. We kind of bonded on the nerd level.
>> Viktoria: M.
>> Jackie: M. And Bo, we were friends for a long time. We only got together in the same year that we got married.
>> Viktoria: Okay. All right, Then also, that explains why you then wanted to stay.
>> Jackie: Yeah. In the long runative. Okay. Now I have, married here, have his family here.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: It is a much more secure feeling because of that as well.
>> Viktoria: Right, right.
Swedes take family very seriously, according to M. M.
And, can you talk then? A little bit of differences, for example, of family values.
>> Jackie: One thing I've noticed, and this was said to us early on, is that not to us as a couple, but those of us who came here is that Swedes tend to. How do you say this take family very seriously. And I, I didn't quite understand it at the time, but I understand what they mean now. It's not that other people don't take family seriously. It's that even like a cultural perspective, they see the nuclear family as the. The is who I'm responsible for. This is my, my crew sort of thing. Whereas where I'm from, when I say family, I'm talking about. Yeah. My parents and my siblings. I'm talking also about my cousins, my aunts and unclesing about all of these people.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: But when we have a familyathering gathering in Barbados, lots of cousins and second cousins and all of these kind of relations. Whereas here, for a lot of, Or what I've noticed for a lot of Swedes, they're talking family. They mean their parents, their siblings, their children, and they might know their cousins, their first cousins, but they don't necesscessarily have close relationships with them. Okay.
>> Viktoria: So everything is more private in a way.
>> Jackie: Or maybe that the circle is a bit smaller. Might be, It. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Be the way to put it. And that probably affects some of the other ways that they, they interact with each other and the ways that they view family. Like a Swede little, almost do anything for a family member. You know, it's. There's a lot that you can expect of your family even if you don't get along.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: M. They will show up. When the family is functioning reasonably well, they will show up for each other. even though it's that small, smaller group that they're talking about.
Tell me about how you started learning Swedish and what your day to day interactions are
>> Viktoria: Okay. And then I, want to come back to something that you, said earlier. Your language struggle. Tell me about how you started learning Swedish and what your day to day interactions are. You still speak in your job in English or.
>> Jackie: Well, I do coaching, online and I do it mostly in English. I can speak Swedish. But I've noticed, and I think this is just what happens when you learn a language as an adult, that sometimes you can say something. Ah. And you might be completely correct in what you say, but you. You don't feel like you've said what you want to sayh. You know, and it sometimes can feel like there's this frustration that comes from not being able to express yourself in a way that feels like you've expressed yourself.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: So I do tend to prefer to like coach and so on. In English. Sure. I can do Swedish. I can make a presentation in Swedish.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: But even then it might Feel like, okay, maybe I didn't speak as well as I could have. Or I was thinking so much about what I should say that maybe my sentences were less refines than they could be, you know?
>> Jackie: And I've also noticed that there are days that works better than others. There's certain days it's no problem. And then in certain days I feel like, I what can I speak this language? Thought I could do this better.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: You know, And I remember earlier on, for several years there were times when I would feel stuck between English and Swedish.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: Like I couldn't with a group of people there'in discussion in Swedish, blah, blah, blah, bl. And I'm understanding them, but I just cannot find the words in English or Swedish to respond. So I'm just there listening to them, just kind of like, okay. And they're just chatting.
>> Viktoria: And I. Yeah, you just have like, a giant knot in your brain. Kind of just doesn't come out. I have that sometimes too.
>> Jackie: Okay. You don't really know how to deal with it. You know, when you're with people, so they've been different struggles. I was fortunate in that in Sweden there's something called Swedish for immigrants. S I. And you know, you start it based on your competence in your own language. So if someone is unable to read or write in their own languages. Language, sorry. They will start at A level. But if you've been to university and so on, you can start at C. Or if you high school, you start at B. And then after that there's some other. They've changed the system a little bit, but there's some other levels that you can take. Like, ground school, basic school, I think it's called. Or Swedish.
>> Jackie: Sa. I forgot what it stands for. Swedish as a second language. That's it. so there are different opportunities that are provided for free. You just need to register, make sure you have. You have to have an ID number to be able to do it. And then there are many language cafes around. Or sometimes they go beyond just sitting and speaking. But they will take time to teach the language within those settings. That was because of the refugee crisis where many people were coming and they didn't have the ID number, so they couldn't come into the SFI class. So, you know, there were a lot of different people who made opportunities for people to learn the language.
>> Viktoria: Okay. So it was just like an open place, like a cafe. And then they did language. Which classes there.
>> Jackie: Yeah, there's some of them like that.
>> Viktoria: Oh, and that's still okay, but that's cool.
It takes some time to learn Swedish. Some people, they pick it up really quickly
>> Jackie: I think the different, different churches and other groups or associations who run.
>> Viktoria: And do you remember for you when it kind of clicked that you was like, okay, at least now I understand and I'm okay in my day to day things.
>> Jackie: I need, I think it went in stages because there were points where, okay, I can do the day to day, I can go shopping and understand certain things, I can say the basic things. And that maybe happened within the first year, the basic things. But then there were, there was, you know, the times where, okay, I feel like I can have a conversation or make a presentation. I think I did some in that must have been after being there for three years, but thinking, okay, I know that I am not using the most advanced Swedish and maybe I sound like a child when I speak, but at least I'm able to put thoughts together in a, Cohesive way. And then I think after five years, that was the first time I realized that I could survive a whole day in Swedish without feeling exhausted.
>> Viktoria: Okay.
>> Jackie: I mean, I still felt a bit tired, but not the sort of I need to run away and hide.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: Sort of feeling.
>> Viktoria: Yeah. So it takes some time.
>> Jackie: Yeah.
>> Viktoria: That Everybody's different.
>> Jackie: Some people, they pick it up really quickly and some people really struggle even when they have access to different things. I think a lot has to do with your situation, how much you've been exposed to in your own language in terms or how many other languages you've been exposed to. also, the Alphabet can also be very important when it comes to Readingish is a similar Alphabet to English. It's very different for people who speak non Germanic languages like Arabic and so on, you know.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: So. And having people around you in your circle who speak the language is very important.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, that is very important. If you only stick to your own language group, you will never learn the language because you will always switch back to whatever is the easiest for you.
>> Jackie: Yeah, exactly.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
M: Before starting my coaching company, I was passionate about people development
and so tell me now about your coaching, because you already said it a five minutes ago.
>> Jackie: Yeah. So during the time that I've been here, I've been working with human resources quite a bit. And the thing that I was most passionate about was people development training and things like that, coaching. And when I started doing this on my own, I was kind of just saying people development. But then I was encouraged by a friend actually who said, you know, why are you focusing just on that? You know, you have all this experience of having moved to a foreign country, learn the Language and settle in. That's your group. That's who you should be focusing on.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh. U.
>> Jackie: Excuse me. So then I realized a lot of the people that I was coaching before were actually people who had moved here for a year or two already. And a lot of what we talked about was dealing with the changing culture and the frustrations that they experienced.
>> Jackie: You know, and I had. Before making this decision to start my coaching company, I had, you know, gone through a lot of, How do you explain this? After Covid, I had gone through, almost burnout, I would call it. time to do some reflection. Okay. Where do I see myself going now? What do I want to do? And realize that coaching or people development and creativity were very important to me. So I took some courses, to improve my skills in both things, and just realized that, yeah, I really want to be in a place where I'm helping people. And the group that I understand best will be that whole idea of transition, Moving to a new place, learning a new culture and so on.
>> Viktoria: And what is it called?
>> Jackie: The. Okay, so there's a company, and it's actually called Vetraft Creative Studios. but we run a program called Thrive, Or I run a program called Thrive. different parts to it. One is focusing on personal development to help people feel more secure in who they are. Because that is one of the big things with moving to a foreign country. You know, you start to doubt yourself because everything is so different, and what you thought was right might not be right, and people misunderstand you and who am I? So one of the most important things is to be, more secureing yourself, so. Uh-huh. That part focuses on people development, and then the option to do some sessions that focus more on cultural adjustment and cultural intelligence.
>> Viktoria: Okay, so you do kind of both.
>> Jackie: Yeah. Because I see the two as very important for this whole process.
>> Viktoria: Yes, yes. And, what is, like, one of the questions that you get the most from them?
>> Jackie: Some people want to know how to make friends. Some people.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, they. Everybody is lonely. Yeah.
>> Jackie: But then I think the one that keeps coming back is understanding how they can be themselves. Uh-huh. and feel like themselves. It's not in those words, but that's what it keeps coming back to.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Because probably when you're from a different culture, maybe you come across as weird or rude or.
>> Jackie: Yeah.
>> Viktoria: Yeah. Not respectful, whatever it is.
>> Jackie: Yeah. And, you're not trying to. You're not even doingeah bad, you know?
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: It's Just you don't know the rules for that culture.
>> Viktoria: Right.
>> Jackie: And I think what tends to happen is people feel like they need to change themselves because everyone talks about, you know, integration. You had to become like the people and so on. But the thing is you can't, no matter what I do, I will never look like a Swed citizen, but I will never look like an ethic. Swede.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Jackie: even if I never speak English again, never go back to my country, never leave Sweden. I'm not going to sound like one either. I can get to a point where it maybe sounds more like I'm a foreigner who grew up here. But I'm never going to have the same experiences as a person who's grown up here and has had ethnically Swedish parents. So why would I try to be that person?
>> Viktoria: Yeah, exactly.
>> Jackie: It's only going to cause, conflict in myself.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, exactly.
>> Jackie: Which then leads me to be bitter about myself or bitter about the people and not want to have anything to do with them. So what I've been telling people is don't try to fit in. Instead try to find your place.
>> Jackie: Because in trying to find your place, you do need to learn the language or make that effort and try to understand the culture and the people and so on. You still need to do many of the same things, but now you're not thinking about changing yourself. And we're trying to think of how can I contribute to this society, to this people that I've moved to in a good way, and what can I learn from them?
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: Rather than trying to deny everything that is you that is not like them.
>> Viktoria: Right. That's not helpful.
>> Jackie: Exactly.
>> Viktoria: Yeah. This, this online.
>> Jackie: Yeah. Well, right now I'm doing one on one coaching. U. but plan to from, I think April, launch a group coaching training course once a week.
>> Viktoria: Oh cool. Do.
How do people find you? They can go to your website
How do people find you?
>> Jackie: They can go to the website. It's called activateeotential.com or they can write to me directly. Uh-huh. Jackie J A. And this is not how my name is wrongly spelled, but J A h k I@vetcraftcreativesstudios.com.
>> Viktoria: All right. I'll make sure that you will find.
>> Viktoria: This in the show notes.
>> Viktoria: So if people check the show notes, there will be a link and then they will find you. And, you work within all Europe.
>> Jackie: Yes. you know, initially I thought maybe I'd just stick with Sweden, but I've actually been getting a few clients from different places. Uh-huh and so my main focus has been Europe and people have moved into a culture. But recently someone was actually encouraging me to. To make the offer wider to people who've maybe done a transition from one company to a NextX or something like that. So my main folk. My main focus group would be internationals in Europe. But I'm very open to helping people in a different kind of transition. Yeah.
>> Viktoria: I mean, for you, everything in. In whole Europe, you're in the same time zone.
>> Jackie: Exactly.
>> Viktoria: So everything works. And if it's online, if you're not like person to person, then.
>> Jackie: Exactly.
>> Viktoria: All right, cool. All right, so I'll make sure that people can find you here.
>> Jackie: Thank you.
>> Viktoria: going back to, Sweden.
M. L. loves berries. Love them. And there's so many different kinds of berries here
what's your favorite food?
>> Jackie: M. I love berries. Love them. Love berries. Get so excited. And there's so many different kinds of berries here.
>> Viktoria: Oh. Oh, okay.
>> Jackie: You know, where I'm from, you don't really see berries in the supermarket that often.
>> Viktoria: Okay.
>> Jackie: Because they won't make it there, you know.
>> Viktoria: Right. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Jackie: Strawberries, blueberries. L. Lingonberries. For making like, jam and so on. Gooseberries.
>> Viktoria: Gooseberries, yeah.
>> Jackie: What is that? That's not cranberry. It's another. Bery goose's gooseberry. There's another. I'm trying to think of the other ones, but I just love raspberries. Raspberries. Oh my goodness. And you know, you can just go into the forest at the right time of year and pick.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: And I know it's crazy. I just. That blows my mind that you can pick these things and just take them home.
>> Viktoria: But is it in Sweden too, you don't pick the ones from the bottom because they might have the worm. So you only can pick the ones from the top.
>> Jackie: Well, for blueberries.
>> Viktoria: No, for like any berries. Like, because like, I also grew up with berries everywhere.
>> Jackie: Yeah.
>> Viktoria: And we were not allowed to eat the ones that are in like, under your knee. High hu.
>> Jackie: Like, the blueberries don't tend to grow that higheet.
>> Viktoria: okay. See. Okay. For blueberries, I mean, it's also probably who wash them, then it's fine. You know.
>> Jackie: But if you just like.
>> Viktoria: Right. Pick them and eat themah.
>> Jackie: You have like the. This is little picker you can use, so you can pick several.
>> Viktoria: I've never seen that before.
>> Jackie: Actually's the craziest thing. and you know, you just like scoop them. You get lots of leaves as well, a small twig. So you have to sort it when you get home. But often people will just pick the berry and eat it as well as they're picking the larger groups. And it's a bit of a social thing as well, so. O yeah, yeah.
>> Viktoria: You go together.
>> Jackie: Yeah. You go with friends and like, the kids run around and pick and I'm never as committed to picking as my adult friends. I'm a little bit like, I pick and I eat and this is cool. But they're picking because then, you know, they're going toa have breakfast for several months in a row and then they're going to, pick so they can make pies and, cakes and all sorts of things. And I'm just like, I want a little. I want some blueberries with my yogurt in the morning, you know?
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: So I'm not as committed to picking as. As they are, but yah.
>> Viktoria: Make all the dishes.
>> Jackie: Yeah. And it's nice, you know, it's like there's forest everywhere, you know.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: You can just go and pick them. And I love eating the berries. I'm a little bit of a picky eater, so I don't tend to eat red meat or beef or things like that, so. M. The Swedish meatballs are not my favorite.
>> Viktoria: Okay.
>> Jackie: I don't tend to eat them.
>> Viktoria: I mean, honestly, like, for me. And I think of, When I think of Swedish food, I only think of ikea, whatever I there is at ikea, you know, they do.
>> Jackie: Lots of different interesting things, actually, especially like around Christmas, this thing, they could do this thing called Flying Jacob with, banana and chicken in a. I guess it's a white sauce kind of thing.
>> Viktoria: That sounds so weird.
>> Jackie: You think so? Right? Until you eat it and it's actually really nice. Yeah.
>> Viktoria: Banana and chicken. Check it out.
>> Jackie: I love it. And salmon. I'm so thankful that there's so much salmon here.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: Because where I'm from, even when you buy salmon in Barbados, it's smaller and it's more expensive.
You can eat salmon quite regularly here, you know. So I appreciate that
So you can eat salmon quite regularly here, you know. And, it's so tasty, actually. So I appreciate that. That was one of the things I appreciated most in terms of food, especially when I first moved here, that just go the supermarket and you buy this, this bit of salmon and. Or sometimes you buy them in four pieces of, like 125 grams each. And you got dinner for four people just like that, you know? I love it. Love this.
>> Viktoria: Did you remember, like, the first time you stepped foot in a supermarket in Sweden?
>> Jackie: Yeah, I think the first time I went, I was with someone that was I. Was the one here in this area where I live. It was, well, it was a little hard to understand everything.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: And I've made some mistakes. In the supermarket one time, I was so happy to see the, u. The shampoo that I was accustomed to using. You know, I was like, oh, wow, cool. As I bought the shampoo and went home and then I was showering, I was like, how the shapel feel? So weird. I looked at it properly. It was a conditioner.
>> Viktoria: Yeah. Yeah, of course.
>> Jackie: Because I. My brain just. It does this thing, especially when feeling tired because of language and so on, where it filters out words. You just don't look at them.
>> Viktoria: Yeah. Right. Know.
>> Jackie: Because you're not seeing the word you're accustomed to. Your brain just goes, okay, whatever. It looks right. You know.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: So I've had my. My share of mishaps.
>> Viktoria: Oh yeah.
>> Jackie: Okay. Yeah. And sorket here is a decent size, but it's not the biggest one. There are some that are even bigger.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
Do you have any downsides of being abroad? Yeah, you miss family and friends
Do you have any downsides of being abroad?
>> Jackie: Yeah, I mean, you miss family and friends. especially with the pandemic, which meant you couldn't travel for a while. That during that time my mom actually started to go to decline quite a bit and we were able to visit her once and we were getting ready to go and visit her again when she passed away.
>> Viktoria: Okay.
>> Jackie: And it was just really hard to not be there, be around for that. I have some, Let me see. That's. I'm thinking of the Swedish word. So I have like a niece and nephew who are growing up and I see them once in a while, but not around them.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: And of course the whole having to relearn how to be an adult and how to feel like an adult in this place. You know, from learning the language to just be able to understand the system in a way that you can actually use it in, properly, you know.
>> Viktoria: What do you mean with the system?
>> Jackie: So in your own country, there's certain things you never have to think about. One, you don't need to do them. And two, if you did, you would understand how to interact with the authorities or interact with the system. You, know. But the process of getting an ID card. When I first moved here, another friend who had recently moved here, we decided, okay, we're going to go through this thing, these things together. So we would go with each other to open a bank account. You know, we went together, we practiced how to say, do you speak English? Sure. We could say that Properly and say, we don't speak much Swedish. And that was the first thing we would always greet people with.
>> Viktoria: not hello.
>> Jackie: We say hey. Like, hey is hello. And I was like, yeah, prot? Gu. Like, you know, just so they know. Okay, we're trying, but we're new, so we don't really know how to say what we want to say. M. You know, and it can be a little bit scary, you know, when the bank sends you some notice which they're sending to everybody and it's all in Swedish and you're just like, okay, I. Trying to figure out how to use the online banking. The first time, you know, was that.
>> Viktoria: At least like a button, an English button?
>> Jackie: When I first came, some websites had English options, but, They would often have maybe one of their pages in English and not all the.
>> Viktoria: All of the,
>> Jackie: It's gotten better now, you know.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: And I think it's actually if you move here with someone who can then show you things, you feel just more at ease and more confident. Whereas when you come by yourself, you have to you. I would take. Okay, I need to set aside time and it set aside an hour to sit down and just kind of try to figure out what's happening in this thing. because it was so different to what I'mustomed to. And it's so easy to miss something important. Even now I can read something. If I read it too quickly, I might miss one important word. I completely misunderstand it, you know, though. Ye.
>> Viktoria: Ah, yeah, yeah.
>> Jackie: So that's the thing. Like you, you then'have to learn how to do things that even teenagers and sometimes even small children know how to do. yeah, you know, you have somebody how to get somewhere by bus or whatever, and they say, well, why don't you just go to the website? There's a website? Yeah, just go. There's an app. But for them it's like, why are you asking me? Just do the thing. It's so easy. Ye, but in my country they don't have apps for the bus, you know.
>> Viktoria: Right. Okay. So in Sweden, everything is also, very, Forward.
>> Jackie: Forward in terms of.
>> Viktoria: Forward in terms of technology.
>> Jackie: Yeah, there's a lot of technology, in many places. You know, in some places you have yourself checkout. online banking is quite a big thing and it's very convenient, but you have to learn how to do it. they are people, in my impression is that there are people who like the idea of progress.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: And going forward with things quite a bit.
>> Viktoria: That's always my impression of all the Nordic countries. I think I, I weird. But, yeah, I feel like all the Nordic countries are at least have the reputation for being progressive in terms of what, are making life easier. Technology.
>> Jackie: Yeah, exactly. it's quite a thing. You know, you're going to play paddle ball and you don't even have to meet a person. Not that I've done this, but they give you a code and you can check in. Then you get whatever you need, and you just. When time is up, then something close closes off so you can't continue. You know, it's. They're very much into doing those kind of things. not necessarily big fans of using paper. And that's an environmental thing as well.
>> Viktoria: You know, I was thinking that, now we, eliminated a lot of paper, but, so I was thinking, like, okay, so you stop cutting down all these trees, et cetera. But then everything is online and you need this huge service that use more electricity. So is it really more environmentally friendly?
>> Jackie: I don't know, because, I mean, the batteries. It's great to have batteries, but how are we making the batteries?
>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
>> Jackie: You know, so there's this toss up.
>> Viktoria: But there's always like this.
One thing that surprised me about the U.S. is that they don't use checks
Okay, we don't use paper. That's great. But there is this huge server that needs all the electricity now.
>> Jackie: Yeah.
>> Viktoria: I mean, just my thought.
>> Jackie: Yeah, I mean, it's. I don't. There's certain things that I follow, but I know for some people, they're really into, the environment and saving the environment, and I agree with it. But I, I can't see that I have as much knowledge about it as a, Swedish school child, for example, because my impression is that they've been taught a lot, you know, okay, you know, I separate my garbage. We have several containers under our sink to separate our garbage. but I don't necessarily know all of the things that it's possible to do. One thing that was a little bit surprising was, like, in the US they like to use checks.
>> Viktoria: Oh, my. Used to. I mean, I think it's also very, littleus.
>> Jackie: When I first came here, uh-huh.
>> Jackie: People didn't like, well, I don't even know what you would do with this.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, that was me coming to the U.S. i was like, what is this? Like, are we in 1950? So I had no idea what that is.
>> Jackie: I, don't like cash as much.
>> Viktoria: U. So everything is paid for the cart, if possible.
>> Jackie: And I see, I Understand why. But it's just so unusual to not have. And I like not carrying cash. It just.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: Helps me not spend money.
>> Viktoria: But y.
>> Jackie: It's. I'm so accustomed to people walking around with money in their pocket and paying for things with cash.
>> Viktoria: Okay, sure.
>> Jackie: So that doesn't happen that much. You use your card or you use your phone or use your card on your phone. You can get your card on into the bank ID app in your phone or the bank app in your phone and like, just bleep your phone with the card on it so you don't even have to have the card with you.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah, that's here too. Yeah.
>> Jackie: I just o. It freaks me out sometimes. It's convenient, but it's just so. Such a different way of thinking. So it's very interesting.
Have you thought of ever moving to a bigger city
>> Viktoria: a different question. Have you thought of ever moving to a bigger city? where you are, obviously, because of your skin color, you would blend in more.
>> Jackie: A bigger city. Actually, where I live right now, the actual area where we live is, like an area of 5,000 people, from 40 to 50 different nationalities.
>> Viktoria: Okay. So there are many people from everywhere.
>> Jackie: Like in this area, which is like a. It's called Farutton. It's one of these communities that was built in the 60s, I think, to have lower cost housing. And even that is amazing to me because when I compare to low cost housing here to low cost housing in the US or where I'm from, like, okay, this is actually pretty good, you know?
>> Viktoria: Yeah. So it is. It is affordable.
>> Jackie: Yeah. We, don't really feel like we want to move right now because we have our community here. I think I would have to have. We both have to have a really solid reason to move from this area to another part of Sweden. We even have family very close by. So.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, that is. That is nice. That's always very convenient.
>> Jackie: Yeah.
I'm still not used to the darkness and how long it can get
>> Viktoria: Is there anything that you don't get used to? I mean, we've already talked the technology. but is there anything else?
>> Jackie: I'm still not used to the darkness and how.
>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.
>> Jackie: How dark it can get and for how long.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: And this weird phenomenon that when the sun starts coming out, like when the sun has disappeared and this time of year and so on, you see less people everywhere.
>> Viktoria: Right.
>> Jackie: But when the sun starts coming out, it's like, where are these people coming from? You know, sun. If there's a really sunny day, you go into town, there will be people everywhere and there will be Swedes sitting on, like, the Jetty and the wharf and maybe rolling up the pant legs and rolling up the sleeves or whatever just to let the sun hit them and they're sitting there like with the eyes closed, looking towards the sun. That one has always been a little bit like what? But then I found myself doing it sometimes when it's been really cool for a while when the sun comes out to just go and stand in the sun for a bit and get warmed up.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: But it's still amazing to me how the weather affects people and how it affects our moods and affects how social we are. Even the conversation that we have when I was growing up and we would see people going, oh, it's nice weather we're having. We always thought that they were doing that as like a I don't really want to have a conversation thing.
>> Viktoria: Right, right.
>> Jackie: Until I moved here and realized that you can talk for 10 minutes about the weather. Honestly, you know, so things like that. Yeah.
>> Viktoria: And the other way around, what about like if the days are 24 hours long?
>> Jackie: That one took me some years to deal with. And so what happened? I grew up in the Caribbean. There's maybe an hour difference in the.
>> Viktoria: Light from summer to winter.
>> Jackie: Yeah. So the sun will always be up before 7 and it will always set by 7. Whereas in the summer now, here, the first few years when it's nice, when it's light until 10cl, you can be out and doing things. But when the sun is up at 3am and the birds are chirping.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah. And you go to bed, night, it's.
>> Jackie: Over, you've got a bed at 12. And I was exhausted for a few summers because of that. So now I have to make sure that I have darkness in my bedroom or wherever I sleep has to be darkness.
>> Viktoria: Yeah.
>> Jackie: So from. Remember one time we were going up north and we stopped overnight at a friend's place and she was saying to her relatives, no, no, no, she needs darkness for sleeping. And they were like climbing up, making sure that they were covering the space between the curtain and the walleaheah and all these things because without that I'm notnna get to sleep.
>> Viktoria: But it's funny, don't they have those curtains that like close from outside like, like in Germany?
>> Jackie: Those kind of.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Jackie: I've never seen, you know that they're.
>> Viktoria: Rolled down and they're like on the outside of the, of the.
>> Jackie: I've never seen them here. I've never seen that.
>> Viktoria: Because that, I mean that would make sense, right? I've Seen like when Germany. In Germany. Exactly. Like, you roll them down, it's pitch black.
>> Jackie: Yeah, I've seen that in Germany once. But, here I don't see. I think because a lot of people aren't affected by it, so they will have a light curtain. And, you know, they're so accustomed to it. So they have this lightish curtain or the. Like, if the wall is here, the curtain is maybe 5cm away. And so that light coming through doesn't're like, oh, the room is going to be dark. And I walk in and I think, I'm never gonna sleep in this.
>> Viktoria: Yeah, no, I have that too. For me, it, has to be dark.
>> Jackie: Yeah. So I just. I have to make all these arrangements in my room to have it, like, pitch black so I can sleep or stay asleep. Because once the sun starts coming up and the heat where we stay, we're living in a corner. So the sun hits our bedroom window in the morning first thing. So it really has to be dark, you know? so that has been. That was a little bit of a struggle, but I did learn how to deal with it and that I. This is what I needed. Even if it's not something that most people need.
>> Viktoria: You can you just wear like a sleeping mask?
>> Jackie: They come off all the time. Or it. If I make it tighter, then I wake it with a headache.
>> Viktoria: yeah, because for me, it bothers me.
>> Jackie: Yeah, they never really work for me. The closest thing was this sort of headband that has, like Bluetooth headphones in it.
>> Viktoria: I've seen them online. I've seen them like, whatever on Instagram or something. Ye.
>> Jackie: I've worn those sometimes. And like, they headphones over my ears playing rain sounds kind of blocks out the extra noises and whatever it is. And just to pull the tip of the thing over my eyes can help, like, darken a little bit, but it's not something I like to do every night, you know.
>> Viktoria: Of course.
Always check the show notes. And I will make sure that people find your coaching business
>> Viktoria: All right, so I think we're coming to an end.
>> Jackie: Sure.
>> Viktoria: But thank you so much for being here and telling me everything. Your ups and downs in Sweden.
>> Jackie: Thank you for having me, Victor. This has been fun.
>> Viktoria: Thank you. And I will make sure that people will find you and your coaching business in the show notes.
>> Jackie: Thank you. Thank you so much for. Of course.
>> Viktoria: M. Yeah, that was my interview with Jackie. So I mention it in the podcast, but I will mention it again. You find her links in the show notes activatethepotential.com and then there's also a way to book like five free sessions with the Mini Thrive. Also at activatethepotential.com Minirive in the show notes. Always check the show notes. There are always so many informations there. Also, the one for the Buyme a coffee too. yeah, that was it from me this week. I hope you tune in again next week. If you want to reach out to me in the meantime, you can do that via email. I think that's always the best way. World' collide. 1, 2, 3 potmail.com or also Instagram. But I noticed sometimes the messages kind of get lost somewhere. There are like so many different folders in Instagram that I don't always find them or don't see them on time. Yeah, and that was it. And in the meantime, don't touch anybody's hair, because that is just weird. I hope you tune in again next week. Until then, bye.