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May the peace that only God can give be upon you. I'm your host, Imam Tariq El-Amin, and welcome to the American Muslim Podcast, presented by Bayan on Demand. today we are blessed to have with us a luminary. Matter of fact, I'm not gonna tell you his name first. I'm gonna give you some of the, some of the stats, just a little bit about him first. We are blessed to have with us a Muslim comedy pioneer, right? That's the first thing. Second, he's an activist, say, comedy and activism, right? All right, let, let's keep running. He's the first Muslim Comedy scholar. That's right. I said it. Muslim comedy scholar. He has toured with such luminaries as Dave Chappelle and George Lopez, the founder of Allah, made me funny. I'm giving it away now. And he's a bayan graduate. The MA and Islamic education. That's right. It's preacher Moss As Salaamu Alaikum brother.

Wa Alaikum As Salaam wa rahamatullahi wa barakatahu, You should've done a commercial like after that like, and we'll be right back. We'll be right back. Lay your, lay your loved ones to rest without that worry. Pay that death on a plan. Six months will 12 months to pay.

Hey, keep. Just keep, let's keep the suspense going. We're gonna take our first caller. And, uh, we'll see. Do you know who we're talking to, brother? Preach.

Herbert said, but they won't. They said We got three more payments before we can burn.

Now, I know this intro, this is gonna go way different than every other conversation that I've had. Uh, and, and that's because we always start out, we say we invite our guests to be as open, as vulnerable, as transparent, and talking about the pivotal experiences, the influences, the lessons that they've learned, really for the benefit of who, of our, of our listeners, right? So that, that transparency or that openness, it helps. And for some reason, um, I already got a feeling that, um, whatever you give us is not, is, it's not just about, um, uh, making us laugh, but. You have a proclivity for making us think as well. Oh, I did not mention also the host, uh, creator and producer. Right. We can, we can lay out the whole credits of the shoutout show. Give it to me. Right? Give it to me please. So let, let me start by asking you Yes, sir. Can you, what's a, a pivotal, a, a formative experience, a memory, something that you go back to and says, this is what put me on to the road that I find myself on today.

I'm Dick Gregory. Dick Gregory, uh, early twenties Def Jam years. Yeah. So I was a Muslim. I take my shahada. When I started comedy when I was 17, of course I was a Muslim college. I kind of fumbled around with it, took my shahada after I, right around the time I graduated, was still trying to do standup. But trying to do it in this, what I had was in my mind was really strict form.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, you know, um, not cursing on stage, uh, being in the clubs. 'cause it was, that's where we were. There was no, uh, there was really no platform for Muslim comedy back then.

Mm-hmm.

Muslim entertainment period. Really. Uh, so we were, I was in the club. I remember running to a guy in Columbus who said he was Muslim, but I never saw him again. Um, maybe Red Grant. It was real passing. But I remember Dick Gregory spoke to me because I was gonna quit comedy. Mm-hmm. I was gonna quit. Because I just, it was hard to compete with Def Jam. It was hard to be a clean comedian right on stage. I'm in the club with my Kofi, um, a brother, you know, everybody had a, everybody had a, uh, comment about Muslim comedy. So basically really at the Masjid, I was in Milwaukee at the time. Mm-hmm. Um, I was basically blackballed. Really? Really? Yeah. They didn't like the whole idea of Muslim comedy and it represented a whole lot of stuff. And people told me how a whole lot of stuff about, you know, when you're on stage, you cannot move 'cause you don't want to tempt the sisters like the sister gonna jump outta their seat because I moved my hand. Woo. There we go. Um, you know, I'm like, and literally this old tape of me walking on stage. Mm-hmm. Uh, I have a new show called Confessions of a Muslim Comedian Volume two. Okay. Uh, no Feel Lies. No Feel Lies there. And at the beginning of the show. You see me in my mid twenties walking out on stage to do a set. Mm-hmm. And I literally stand there the whole time. I do not outside of this, I literally stand and work the room, like literally. Wow. I'll send it to you. You'll be like, what in the world? And that was it. And I was like, 'cause I don't want, and this is in the clubs, it's not even, not, not even, um, in front of Muslims. I'm like, that's how I saw a picture of myself, uh, a video of myself at the ice house years ago. Mm-hmm. I was auditioning to write on the George Lopez show, and I saw the video and I'm literally not moving. And Lopez, when we toured, he was like, why don't you move? And I'm like, I gave him this stuff. He's like, yeah, Muslims are weird. I'm like, okay. Because in your mind, and uh, I was about to quit after I got fired at this place called the, uh. The, the Cotton Club, I think it's called The Cotton Club. Mm-hmm. If, if in, uh, Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the Cotton Club. Rough room brother. Rough room brother. Yeah. Uh, and I told the lady her name was, I'm, I'm gonna blow her up. Her name was Diane, quarter Uhhuh. And I'm like, listen, Diane, um, I'm a clean comic. I'm Muslim, I do social humor, da da da. I see all this stuff. Don't worry about it. They gonna love you. And I went down there, boo boo. And uh, that's before I even got on stage, boo. Wow. Because I, from Chicago, I was, I was coming from Milwaukee.

Yeah.

And, uh, I got fired. They brought me back. The next night I got fired again. And, uh, I called, my mom was like, what are you doing? I'm, I'm quitting. Because it was just hard. Yeah. Because you're trying to get on then. Right. And, um, she said, well, I have a, a friend of a friend. You should talk to him. He's a comedian. I'm like, who is it? It is Dick Gregory. How you know Dick Gregory, you know, i's how you, how you know Dick Gregory? And, you know, I read his books. Um, shadows just Scare Me. Of course, nigger. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. So I read that and I called him and he puts it all on his inspector. Now, this is before the old, you know, the later Dick Gregory. He, he, he, you know, he was doing that right. Breakfast Club. Dick Gregory. Yeah. So he wasn't that way. So, um, I, I, I, uh, I get him on the phone about some miracle. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I tell him what's going on, I tell him I'm Muslim comedian, da da da da. And he's like, tell me you're set. And I had this bit about, um. Social unrest. And it was sort of framed like a, a weather report. Okay. He was like, why do, why the pressures coming to low pressure from this side? I said, I said, black inequality is still at a hotel low. And you know, as a, I was like, economic, you know, I was doing all this stuff. And he said, yeah, man. He says, don't, he says, no, don't quit. He goes, uh, he said, you do a disservice, you quit. He said, you Muslim? I was like, yeah. He said, no, don't quit. And I was like, really not feeling good about doing standup after this, uh, thing. Mm-hmm. And he goes, uh, he goes, what? You, you? I said, I died on stage. That's what I tell him. Uh, you mad. I said, I died on stage. And he goes, he goes, do you think you the only Muslim died on stage? And I'm like, what other Muslims died on stage? I'm thinking, comedian, what other Muslims died on stage stage? He went there, he goes, he goes, Malcolm X. That's right. And I'm like, oh. He is like, you know what? Hey brother, uh, get, get better, get bitter. Mm. And that was it. And years later I met him. We worked a couple times, and I, uh, I, uh, I was blessed to Mc his 80th birthday party at Washington DC here DC Wow. And, uh, incredible conversations, man. Mm-hmm. You know, incredible conversations. And he, you know, he really pushed me to do all them make me funny. Really? Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. So, 'cause he, he, he always talked about the Muslim body politic as, as not being there for one. Mm-hmm. Like, we don't have a, uh, we don't have a, a, a Muslim Political Action Committee. Uh, he said, but you could do it for culture.

Right.

He said, don't wait for the politics. 'cause people afraid do it with the culture. Mm-hmm. And he would always ask you, you, you, we had talked about it, you start that thing yet. No, no, no. Well maybe we had a Christian to start up, you know, I'm like, oh boy. No. He say, he say, you started up. I'm like, no. He said, well, you waiting to go back to Christianity? I'm like, nah. And then nine 11 hit and then it was like, I kind of see what he's talking about. And uh, conversations with him, conversations with the man, Walter de Muhammad. It's interesting 'cause you know, you begin to see how all these guys are really intertwined. Yeah. That, uh, when I began to talk to him, he talked about some of the conversations he had with Al Elijah Muhammad. Right. And the conversation he had with Muhammad Ali and conversations I had with Malcolm X. And I'm like, he's around all these, what we call Muslim luminaries. Mm-hmm. And he is like, so none of them do standup. He is like, you do standup.

Right.

And he is like, you, you know, he gave the push, he really gave a push. And then of course, uh, Iman, Walter, Dean Muhammad, may I be pleased with him, gave me a lot of encouragement and direction. That was the difference. Okay. You know, and with comedy, you don't really look for direction. Encouragement. Yes. Gave me direction. He was like, well let me, let me let you know the space that you're gonna be working in. He's pretty much talking about what he had to go through or what he saw. And then you get the history of Audible Elijah Muhammad being locked up for this amount of years. And he had to do time. And he is like, you know, this is, you know, he said, if you do it right, you won't get locked up. But, um. Incredible insight. Incredible insight. So Dick Gregory was it man, you know, because you know, when you start out comedy mm-hmm. You know, you are a slave to, to, to local, uh, local habits. Right. And I was DC in, I was DC uh, uh, do I had been in Milwaukee going to school, left, went home, came back like three years later to teach in Milwaukee. Mm-hmm. And the whole culture thing was, you know, it was like the comedy thing. I got blackballed in, in Milwaukee probably the first two months there just off of Joe. I told about Jeffrey Dahmer.

Really? When you say you are a slave kind of local habit or custom, do you mean that what the people think is funny? What, what they think is acceptable

to talk about? Think it's funny. Yeah. What they think is. What they think is funny or acceptable to, to talk about the club owners, you know, they have that power. Mm-hmm. Uh, they'll tell you, don't do that joke. Really? They'll tell you, don't do that joke, man. Don't, Hey, look, do not do that joke. I did a joke about Jeffrey Dahmer and, uh, at the time, DC was the murder capital of the world. Yeah. So the joke kind of goes, man, I'm like, with all this crime, he like, you know, you gotta, I gotta give Jeffrey Dahmer a little credit man said, because he took the heat off of dc you know, I said, and I said, I said, we, I said, yeah. I said, we the murder capital world. Now we got our chest outs. Like, yeah, we, the murder capital world, we kill people. We don't eat 'em. Uh, it's all relative. And so somebody goes. A survivor of Adic of a, of a Jeffrey Diamond victim was in an audience. And oh, and I was like, how, how am I to know that? But I was, I was different because I'm like, I'm from DC and I've been around black. I'm gonna say what it's, and Right. Yeah. So, yeah, that, that probably sparked me a while. But that, and, uh, getting fired, uh, a couple times. Um, I got fired when I was 18 and I was MCing at a strip club. I got fired from there. How you do that? Preach, uh, don't say the wrong thing to the wrong person. Don't say the right thing to the wrong, to the right people or the wrong people like sister. We need to get it together. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, pick up this glitter, you know? Um, no. I told, uh, a sister there that, you know what? You're pretty smart. Maybe you should go to school. Try that out. Right, right. And she was dating a club owner. Mm-hmm. And they were way different in age. And I guess she told them, uh, maybe she said, maybe I, I need to go back to school. Or maybe she said, uh, you really old and you smell like glue. I don't know what happened, wanted to. But in between those two, I got fired. And, uh, you know what it, that was the other thing outside of, uh, Dick Gregory, that thing allowed me to, um, I was too young to work. Um, my college years, I was a, when I showed up to school, I was 17 years old. And, uh, my end of my first semester of college, I was still 17. That's how young I was. Wow. So I couldn't work in, I couldn't work in any bars and in clubs. So I wound up working out with jazz bands. And you talk about a cultural shift.

Yeah.

So I learned how to write standup, uh, watching jazz musicians write mm-hmm. Jazz music. And the truth is, I never wanted to be a standup. I wanted to be a jazz musician. So really? Um, yeah. Okay. My comedy special, my first one was Love Supreme and Anatomy of Gratitude is, uh, a salute to, uh, Coltrane and the transformative music that I listened to when I was thinking about becoming a Muslim. Mm-hmm. And that was it. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna give that love back. Uh, so I was heavy in the jazz, heavy in the jazz. I love, uh, train. I love all the, uh, Philly horn players. Clifford Brown. Mm-hmm. Big Le Lee Morgan fan. He usually Morgan fan. Uh, I, I I did a short film featuring his, in some of his music. Um, Murphy Man. Mm-hmm. Um, huge dude. Then I wound up being in like, the house mc for a lot of groups that came through Milwaukee Jazz groups. 'cause nobody cared about jazz. Yeah. You know, so I worked with everybody from Tito Puente to Stanley Clark to, I worked with Gil Scott Heron. I worked with, uh, heavyweights. Yeah. Man, I, oh my, and my favorite Frank Morgan.

Mm.

One of my favorites is Frank Morgan. Johnny Griffin. Okay. The little giant probably saved my career. I wanted to, uh, I, I love Johnny gi. He's one of the few people that played with, uh, monk. Oh, really? So a few of the guys that played with Monk? Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's one of 'em, him Rouse a train. Played with Monk too. Mm-hmm. But I really, I had a role going on. He came to Milwaukee to play and I was gonna be MCing and I was trying to press this young lady. Let's keep it real. Yeah. Uh, dude, I had a killer first set, and I don't know what I'm thinking, but I want him to recognize that I had a killer first set. And, uh, I walk up to this guy and I tap on the show and I'm like, Hey, did you see my set? I, I'm losing, I guess. Yeah. You like, yeah. You know, he goes, is that what that was? And I'm like, yeah, I saw my set and I'm like. You know, your jazz musician. I'm, I'm, I'm like the jazz comedian. What do you think? You know? Right. And he goes, buy me a drink. And I'm like, all right. Give him a drink. Mm-hmm. You really wanna know. Yeah. He goes, buy me another drink. I buy another drink. And he, he looks at me with a straight face and he goes, I hate your voice.

What? What

he says, he says, your voice is like bricks on a, on a, on a, on a, on a, on a chalkboard. I mean, he, I, I look at my face, it's like all the, all the joy runs outta my face. Like, oh my God, Andy's loud. He goes, he goes, nobody likes your voice. He said, the band hates your voice. He, this is, he goes, the wood floors hate your voice. I'm like, the wood floors. I mean, I'm goodness. I'm hooking. I'm about to cry. And, uh, I just leave.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, I'm dreading I gotta come back the next night.

Hmm.

And I came back the next night and I did my set. I didn't ask him anything, right? And I sit the bar, he goes, are you, you gonna ask me about, uh, your set? And I'm like, absolutely not. Not after last night. He says, you're a jazz dude. I said, what do you mean? He goes, you played a little. I said, yep. I played alto violin when I was young. Um, he says, you, you can read a little sheet music. I'm like, yeah, I can still read sheet music, right? He goes, the problem is, I said, I hate your voice. He said, 'cause you're wasting it. He says, you just throwing it out there. He says, there's no tone, there's no presentation, da da, da. He says, I expect more. He said, you're funny, but I expect more. And he said, you were the jazz audience and da da da. And I'm like, how, what? So he introduces me to Vocalese music, vocalese, which. Vocalese, if you ever heard like Frank Sinatra. Yeah. Or Dean Martin, those guys. Mm-hmm. They stole all that music from a guy named King Pleasure. And King Pleasure stole it from a guy named Eddie Griffin. If you ever heard Moody's Move for Love, I know you heard that. Yeah. There I go there I go there I go. Well that's a solo, that's a musical solo. And somebody put words to the solo, they record go. They record, like Al Dre is probably as close as you're gonna come to perfection on that. Mm-hmm. But Eddie Ruffin did it with, um, James Moody.

Okay.

And I learned how, for a while there, for about three years, I would write my music to solos. Like I write my comedy to solos like, uh, miles Davis. So what, um, uh, Coltrane while my lady sleeps mm-hmm. I would, and so for years, a lot of people don't know this, but I don't know if I should tell him for years. Uh, I haven't been doing comedy. I've been giving you guys songs. It's the easiest way to do. Really. That's my cheat code, man.

So you're taking the intonation, the, the, the, the very, I'm taking literal

notes if you see Love Supreme. Yeah. I perform with a jazz man, two jazz professionals, uh, Leon Alexander, uh, at the, he, he, Leon Alexander retires a week before my gig from the US Navy Jazz Band. He was the senior officer for the US Navy Jazz Band. Mm-hmm. Uh, the Commodore, my bass player is ta ine, who's like 2016 downbeat jazz bass player of the, like, these are heavy jazz cats, right? Imagine me writing the breaks. This is, we're talking about keys and they're like, you know, so a lot of people with, when they see, uh, um, love Supreme, they're like, you guys really rehearsed? I'm like, nah. Um, if we rehearse it, it's not gonna be good. We gotta trust each other. Just like, if you understand how they did, uh, love Supreme. Mm-hmm. Coltrane didn't write a lot of those parts. He was like, here's the scheme, here's the key. Here are your bars and, and this is where I'm going to be.

Mm-hmm.

We need to be here. You do what you're gonna do. I'm gonna trust you. And he got that from Ornette Coleman, who even when I was young, I didn't really like Ornette Coleman. 'cause he'd be trying to play 2, 2, 2, 2 horns at the same time. Like, this dude's crazy. Um. But Coltrane got a lot of that from, on that Coleman, I'm like, that freedom that, you know, as a musician, you gotta be like that freedom is what I really want. But as a comedian, I'm like, that's, that's, that's crazy expression.

Um, so there's a, a bit of a dichotomy here in jazz is that you are talking about this freedom of expression, this ability to kind of move, um, unscripted and not necessarily, I I love to hear the way, um, I'm losing his name right now. Uh, shame on me because he's one of the, uh, the, the pianist, um, Harry Hancock. No, no. He's in the new generation. Why do I wanna say Baptist? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. Baptist. Yeah. Baptist. So he talks about how the expectation as we're listening, right, that. Uh, there's something inevitable about the way the music moves, but the expectation that we have when we are listening to music, even when it is freeform, when it has this, this creative element to it, we are never, um, I think it's the right way to say, we're not necessarily surprised, right? By like, you, you hear, you go from one note, you expect the, the next note.

You know, it's a crazy story. Um, band has my, uh, my thesis Uhhuh, uh, I made me funny. It was, it talked about intersectionality. Yeah. Uh, race, uh, race, uh, religion and humor. Hmm. Like, they need to, they need to probably, uh, dip that joint in bronze and keep it really, you know, because this is the only joint that's out there. In my thesis, I talk about Herbie Hancock. Um, Herbie Hancock gives an account of being with Miles Davis. Okay. Like Miles Davis got Herbie Hancock in his band. This is how good Herbie Hancock was. Like, he's 17, 18 in Miles Davis's band. Hmm. Um, and I guess they've been playing together for a while. He tells this story and I'd say this is an Islamic story. Okay. 'cause, you know, Islam is in the jazz world. Mm-hmm. It's a whole different expression than what we see at the mosque. I'm like, these cats are really pioneers with his, his music and his spirituality, his music. Like, uh, brother Tark, uh, Tarina played. Mm-hmm. He's a world class bass player, man. But he's just, he's, he's sitting there doing his thicker beads, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah, man, I'm like, you know, I love him. But, uh, Herbie Hancock says this, and I, it felt something, it felt so much like. Hadith that I couldn't find.

Mm. Um,

so Herbie Hancock and Miles Davis and All Star Band are playing somebody like Sweden or Scandinavia. So they, by all accounts, it's, it's like this magical night, A magical music night. Everybody's hitting their mark. Every solo is incredible. Every musician is on point and it's building towards Miles solo. And everybody's waiting to hear Miles solo on this record. I think it was. So what? Or something like that. Herbie Hancock gets so excited, he hits this wrong chord. It's so bad. Everybody knows like, ugh. Like the audience is like, Ugh. The musician's like, oh my, what you doing? Herbie S Oh my gosh. Like, it's miles,

right?

And the waiting for Miles to just go off this is Miles Davis. You don't do that, right? You ain't Miles. So you could probably. Interpret this. Herbie Hancock said he played this really, really bad note, this really, really wrong note. Herbie Hancock of all people. Mm-hmm. He said he looked at Miles thinking Miles is gonna explode. He said, miles has his trumpet. He looks up, he looks up, he hears it Now he said he plays a little something and then he goes into a solo and he said he didn't realize, but what Miles did was he heard what it was, it was a wrong, he fixed it and then it went into a solo and he asked Miles about it and he said, well, miles plays this, this, uh, this, this, this wrong note. And Miles Davis with that voice, he's like, Hey, it was wrong. It was just unexpected. And I'm going. Is that a philosophy of life? Mm-hmm. Or what? I'm like, that's a hadid.

Yeah.

It's not wrong. It's just unexpected.

Yeah.

And I put it in, I'm like, 'cause that was what all made me funny was 'cause there wasn't templates to go through. Right. You know, we made mistakes, uh, you know, we made mistakes, things that need to be correct, things we just didn't understand. Uh, but the philosophy for me was, it's not wrong. It's just unexpected dudes leave your band. It's not wrong. It's unexpected. You're a jazz dude. What you gonna cry the blues? Right. You go up and you watch cats come in a band and leave a band.

Yeah.

Okay. We had a trio. Dudes, cats come in, they go out, they got problems, you know, you know, they wanna branch out. They, they got women problems. We, I'm not making enough money. I'm like, Hey, this is, this is, uh, the, the, the, the, uh, dressing room of more better blues. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. But that whole thing of Herbie Hancock saying it wasn't wrong. It was just unexpected

there. There's a, a, a fairly lengthy narration that I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna share here, but it basically revolves around a king and the scholar and everything that happens. The scholar replies of Hamed la right. The all is, is due to God. Um, and it fits perfectly with this idea. If it wasn't, it wasn't wrong. It was just unexpected. Um, yeah. So how does, talk a bit about the, either the connection or maybe the differences between that unexpectedness in music versus comedy.

Well, music revolves around, I like to say rules, but it has, it has more to, uh, it has more to do an etiquette. Hmm. So when you see a big orchestra,

yeah,

playing together, that's a really, really, uh, complicated example com You know, a sophisticated example of of etiquette to hear other instruments, to lead comedy is one instrument,

right?

For a lot of people, I got the microphone, I talk to the microphone, I listen to you. But other people say comedy is etiquette, which means that I'm going to make you laugh, but it's gonna bear out a certain amount of preparation. You know, uh, performing in front of Muslims is probably one of the most difficult things you could do. It's difficult because people, Muslims and I, I don't wanna generalize, but I'm gonna say this and I'll just take the heat for it later. Muslims in Islam don't really follow the true curriculum for how you treat, teach, teach Islam and treat people with Islam, whether they're Muslim or not. Mm-hmm. The reason why you have these amazing levels of conversion, like every week I go to the mass, somebody's taking a shot. Yeah. The religion in its base is set up that it, it, it teaches to the lowest common denominator of society.

Right.

And if you're making that person feel worthy, you're making that person feel inspired, they're gonna come. But if you're like not teaching to that group, you don't see what that magic is. So with comedy, it's interesting because people, I do teach the lowest comedy denominator of the audience. Mm-hmm. Uh, but it's with respect. It's respect. And trying to find a balance is like, okay, preach. You are on a, you are on a saxophone. The drums gotta sound this way. The bass gotta sound this way because it's not about my performance, it's about the presentation of the band. Right? And we don't look at the presentation of the band. So cats take their jihad, they go to a maji, it's out of balance. They, they go to a conference, it's out of balance. They go to a liquor store. It's out of balance. And so, um, and, and it is interesting because, I mean, I went through that, I went through all of that. But you know, when you're teaching and Muslim audiences tend to believe that, you know, we're very sophisticated. No, you're not, right? No, you're not. Uh, yeah, it, you could be a h it doesn't come, it does not translate to you being able to understand comedy. Right. Because I understanding comedy is like, I'm telling you something, but you gotta understand where I came from because, so he, because when you in the audience, a lot of 'em never been there.

Right.

A lot of people don't know what South side of Chicago look like.

Mm-hmm.

A lot of people don't know what Oloc looks like.

Right.

You know what I'm saying? They don't know what Southeast Washington looks like. And it's not that these are poor areas. These are areas that have survived and, and existed on the will and on the will and, and, and the, the presence of really, really good people, not bad people. Really, really good people. So, and Muslim comedy, I'd say this, so it, it is from our experience, it's from African American experience because it wouldn't work from anybody else's experience. Right.

Right.

You know, um, Eric KRS won on a podcast drink. Champs say this. He says, uh, he says, basically he goes. Black people, brown people. He said, you know, the white man doesn't follow any of our laws. Not one. Mm-hmm. He said, we have not turned out one law that that person will follow. You know, even with the civil rights, everybody gets civil rights now. You know what I mean? Yeah. And this is black law, black struggle, but everybody gets civil rights. And I'm like, man, that's a hundred percent. Like, that is a hundred percent true. And when you start to think about what it is in comedy, the comedy is like, this was not to be black law. You know, it's meant to be for everybody. Mm-hmm. But even then, you know, it had, it had to come out of our experience. Right. You know, we are purveyors not just of humor, but we are commentators.

Yes.

And I don't mean like recent commentators, I'm talking about. And you, you show me a a you know, I'm, I'm a comedy historian. I mean, way back man. I mean, Timmy Rogers, MAs Maly. I'm a, I'm a huge Red Fox fan. Yeah. Uh, you're lucky I fell asleep to KO Jack, otherwise it would be Red Fox Sanford. So, um, you know, being able to spend time with Nipsey Russell before he passed away. Oh, wow. Uh, remember Nipsey Russell? Yeah, yeah. Uh, uh, Manam Molan, um, the great Burt Williams, Larry, you know, you know the, the, the, uh, film director haw.

Mm-hmm.

We, people don't even know about that. You know, people don't even know about Paul Robeson. What he bring, what he brings to the table. I'm like, this is, this gives me, you know, that's really where I'm coming from with the, the Muslim comedy thing.

Hmm.

Because it's artist protest. The minute, the minute it's commoditized, you know, they, they, they, they commercialize it. Yeah. It's dead. No offense. You put it on Hulu, you put

it on Netflix, it is dead. And is that because now you go back to being slave to not just a local, but maybe a national culture, custom expectations along with the profit, like what? This is what sells. So we're going to package what you give. It's like Muhammad Ali is a state

we love Muhammad Ali. Right. Then Muhammad Ali twice in month. Mm-hmm. I was aw. As a kid and I was Aw. As a as, as a, as an adult. Right. You see Muhammad Ali's stuff. You have, it's almost like it's separated. There's gonna, people are gonna tell you about how great he was with social causes and the people, and then there's gonna be people who will show you his picture over Sonny Liston. But there's no, there's no context to it. Know what I mean? There's, we don't know about him being a Muslim in Sonny Liston. So they've taken the Islam out of the, when they give you Muhammad Ali, they take the Islam out of it. They take the history out of it. When you see these shows, now I'm gonna say this 'cause I'm gonna say it. You say, Hey, I could say whatever I want to look. Way before Netflix and Hulu, I had my shot in Hollywood with a huge, uh, management group called Brill, Stein Gray. Mm-hmm. Brill Stein Gray. And essentially it's what every comedian wants, uh, Darrel Hammond from Sat Live, you know, he walk me through the door. I was writing on a Lopez show, and, uh, the guy's name was Jeff Chetty, because I'm gonna put his name out there too. Um, he liked my writing, he liked my standup, but it came to, he goes, but you're a Muslim though, right? Listen to it. But you're a Muslim though, right? Mm-hmm. Like, I'm gonna go, uh, some days I'm like, yeah. The question is like, you know, um, you know, we're in a business and how would you feel? You know, we had to do some things. Like you had to do some things that, you know, may not be what you believe in, but you know, we're making money. Mm-hmm. And my question is, well why would I do that? Why can't we make money with the things I believe in? Now you're talking about market, uh, the market structure. Right. And he was like, thanks for coming. So that mean it was over Wow. Years before I wrote a script called, here Come The Muhammads. Mm-hmm. And people saw it. It was a good script. Somebody really liked it. Like, this is great. But I'm like, what's it about? He goes, where's the gay character? Hmm. There is no gay character. It's called, here come the Muhammad. I come here, come Muhammad. And a gay character. Otherwise I wrote it like that. But it was funny because. And then the Muslims. Like, you can't say Muhammad. I said, it's Muhammad's. Right? It's not, hi, now here come the, here comes Muhammad. It's the Muhammads. Right? And I laugh now, I said interesting. 15 years ago, he couldn't say, here come the Muhammads. Uh, but on Netflix you could say, Mo, ain't that something?

Hmm.

You got him Muhammad. But he's a mo.

Right?

So I'm like, you know, you, you know what the game is Like I said, like Dick Gregory said, you know, either get better or you get better. Mm-hmm. But even in that space, you know, one, my first writing job with Damon Weighs. Mm-hmm. Right. And uh, remember the movie Bamboozle? Yeah. It's interesting. You can't find a movie anywhere now.

Yeah. That was a great movie. You

know how you can find all the garbage movies on, on? You can't find bamboozle. Mm. Like I've been on Find Bamboozle. You can't find it. There's a scene and this kind of explains. The Muslim entertainment scene? Mm-hmm. A little bit, particularly with tv.

Okay.

If you remember Bamboozle, uh, Damon Williams plays a a TV executive. He's a writer. He's had a new network. He's trying to get new content on about black people, our stories and things like that. Mm-hmm. Everything he writes is, is turned down.

Right.

So he wants to break his contract, but he don't want to get sued. So he comes up with this idea, I'm gonna write the most outrageous thing and I'm gonna turn it in, and they're gonna fire me and I can move over my life. So he turns in this idea for a modern day minstrel show.

Mm-hmm.

He turns it in. The network loves it. They run with it, they put money out, and, and it becomes this major hit. I feel like a lot of artists. Yeah. They just start writing the most outrageous thing. They're not presenting. They, they go to the most outrageous thing thinking these people like it because I'm a Muslim. Look at the contract in battle. I'm a Muslim who write this really outrageous thing. It doesn't even look Muslim. And, and the people buy it now. The trap is you now have to top that level of extremity every time. Every time. And, and that's why, you know, a lot of, I had people call me after they watch some of these shows and they were like, yo, man, what's, what's up with your dude? Or what's, what's, Hey man, I'm not right now. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I was like, I could tell you if I'm not writing on that show. Yeah. It's a prob it's a problem. They don't want me writing on that show. 'cause I probably be a problem in the writer's room. Mm-hmm. Like, man, we don't, we don't do that. But I learned, you know, you learn the game, you learn the hustle, you learn the game. But you know, again. Uh, it's not wrong. It's

unexpected. Hmm. Talk a bit about the connection between thought leadership and comedy. Uh, Dick Gregory as, as you, as you mentioned, right. For those who are familiar with him. Yeah. I know a lot of our younger generation may not be as connected or aware.

Dick Gregory is, he's a brain, you know, he's the motor behind the Richard Pryors. He's the motor behind Carlin. He's the motor behind, uh, red Fox. Uh, red Fox was before him, but once you see that, you see Red Fox embracing, uh, black nationalism. Um, he was the comedian for Mega Evers, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, and Muhammad Ali. Mm-hmm. Like he was the Comedy Mind, the Comedy Muse for all these guys. And he was an activist. And, you know, there's a, there's a thing, and I've gone through it in my lifetime. It's like, you can go so far with your activism. You're not funny anymore. Yeah. This is a full time thing. And I've gone through that a couple times. Like, you know, you're so angry or so passionate about something that happened. You know, the funny is not there. Right. Or the ability to communicate with humor, it abates. Mm-hmm. And he, he talked about that man, you know, he, he, he laid some serious stuff on me, his 80th birthday party. He said, you know, preacher must be careful. He said, 'cause sometimes it's not that people will forget your turn on you. He goes, you can't outlive your purpose in somebody's eyes. That's deep. Yeah. They said You can outlive your, you can become a statue in your community science. When people go, oh, preacher Ma, you're a legend. I'm like, Ugh. Oh, you know, you'd wanna hear it. Right. Um, because I mean, I had an interview a while back and I was, uh, dealing with, um, this position and the person got on, they were like, he is Muslim organization. They were like, we've been following you for the last 20 years. I'm like, well, what we doing this, what we doing this for? Hey, I can't tell you nothing new. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And that's exactly, I was like, that's what Mr. Gregory was talking about.

Mm.

You know, um, you can't top what you've done. You can't take 20 years and then five minute conversation. Somehow I'm gonna change the texture of the tone of what I've done for 20 years. And know, and once he, you know, once he went through that, he, he went back to the stage. He was an activist, you know, he was 84 years old, still doing standup.

Mm-hmm.

Ironically, his show, last show was in, in Dayton, Ohio. And guess who's in the audience?

Who

of day? Chappelle's mother and sister.

Hmm.

And he tells him to come back and he gives him a message, tell your son this, this, this, but he was in the thing. But he's like, yeah. Kept him for two hours. They still talk about it. Wow. They still talk about it. But he was a great teacher. Uh, and man, Walter de Muhammad, you know how people have great, really, really good stories about Iman Muhammad mm-hmm. And how they hung out. I have none of those, bro.

Yeah.

I have, uh, the WD Muhammad version of, of, uh, Dick Gregory. Mm-hmm. Short talk tongue lashing. He didn't do that. Um, yeah. But I remember when I would start all made me funny. Mm-hmm. It is like he gives me a mission, like I'm in a nation. Start it, but don't start it in our community. He say, he tells me, don't start it in the black community. Don't start it with black Muslims. Like why? He goes, you know, it'll die in community. He, he die in community. He's like, because everybody here thinks they knew. He says, nobody's done anything, but everybody's gonna tell you how to do it. He said, skip all of that. And he said, you got a mission. And you know, 2002, 2003, man, America's on the tail of immigrant Muslims. Mm-hmm. They had their foot on their neck. He said, go over there, take this language, go over there, give it to a human. He says, 'cause if you try and get on a men bar, you, you won't get on there for 20 years. But that human is different. Yes. And he said, it is the ability to cut through a lot of, and speak to the youth. If you're lucky, you're gonna get some of the, the older folks that come along, the more progressive. But you gotta talk to the youth. Because what he's telling me is, and I don't understand it, is in 10, 50, 20 years in our own community, we're gonna have an issue with what we got. No youth got very little youth. Mm-hmm. They're not sticking in that building the ma shit, he says, so, you know, the me, the message has to flatten out and we had to bring people into our spaces, and this presents more of a, uh, you know, a, a multicultural front, if you will, Islamically, but we don't have it. So, man, all it made me funny. Let me get my first passport, man, really, you know? Mm. Really let me get my fast first passport and go on here and go on there and going to uk. And I went to the uk, man, I went to Bradford, that, that was the first city I ever performed in, in the uk. Mm-hmm. I literally had to tell the people, let me, and my joke was, let me show y'all what y'all look like. Wide eye. Huh. Um, because they weren't used to, uh, uh, particularly a black man Yeah. Who wasn't a scholar, who wasn't a man, who wasn't a shake talking to them.

Hmm.

And having to break the ice. Like, we're gonna have this conversation and it's okay to laugh.

Right. You know,

and it was, I say it's okay to laugh and then I tell 'em, but it's okay not to laugh, you know, don't laugh at everything 'cause it's not gonna be organic to me. Right. You know, some stuff you gotta stop, think about da da da. Mm-hmm. You know, but it was, it was, you know, it was interesting to have that kind of, as you say, thought leadership going into it. And I think the interesting thing, I don't wanna say it's controversial, it's not, the interesting thing was it was not built to drive, uh, interfaith. Hmm. Yeah. Say more about that. I'm not a big fan of interfaith. Okay. Uh, I'm a big fan of interfaith. We need to correct what we are doing first instead of running around because interfaith like a pimp game a little bit, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, you know what the pimp say? Uh, people act funny for the money and strange for the change.

Right, right. Go ahead and get your laugh out there, man.

I, um, hear you. Yeah. But like, yo, this is all subjective, man.

Mm-hmm.

You know what? You got 20 years of interfaith. We've been working together and da da da. October 7th happens. What happens

back to their camps? You gonna find out who you've

been dancing with the whole time.

That's right.

Uh, and I'm, I'm like, listen, and I don't doubt them. Mm-hmm. I mean, I, I did a joke one time. I said, man, I, I used to really hate on Satan. I don't hate on Satan. He's got a job to do.

Mm-hmm.

You know, he's, he, you know, he's okay to do these things. You know, Satan is Satan. That's what he does. You know, if he, if he's put something out there to steal, he is gonna steal it. That's the way the game goes. Mm-hmm. Why are you arguing against nature? You know? And the thing about interfaith is stop fooling yourself. Don't delude yourselves, you know, and, and push come to shove. People are going to, you know what it is? Mm-hmm. We're gonna act in our best interest for our people. And I'm like, well, why do we have, you know, why do we need to keep having these meetings? That's what it's, and we're gonna have a friendship league. Nah, you know. Whatever it is you believe, just hold tight

to it, man. I, I can respect that. You mentioned something about Iman, Martha di Muhammad, and I think this is a point where interfaith has a completely different framing, uh, and, and texture when you think about the title. Right. He took a title for himself, Muslim American, uh, spokesman for human salvation. Yeah. And when, when our interactions are based upon this human identity, then it becomes something more than just an opportunity to check off a box and say, well, I'm Muslim. I got together with, you know, I, I, I met my Jewish brothers, I met my Catholic brothers, my Lutheran brothers, my, my Methodist brothers and sisters, right? But it's really about what is the, the shared, what is the, the common denominator, and that is our humanity. So in terms of thought leadership, right? I look back to him to say, how do we expand this? And likewise, with, with, with your. Uh, with your work with comedy and the way that you approach it, it, I, I see, and, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I see the, the human element, uh, in it as well, but firmly rooted within your very own distinct experience, you know, as a, a black American Muslim.

No, 100%. You know, the moment I go away from that, uh, Tarek, I'm through as a comedian.

Yeah.

It's a wrap.

Yeah.

You know, take the microphone. No, you don't have to take the micro microphone away from, I would put it back in the stand and walk away. Yeah. And you have to be that real with yourself. Mm-hmm. You know, that's the thing is that you gotta be that real with yourself. You know, the, you know, Dr. Jackson, Dr. Sherman Jackson, and I had a conversation one time and, uh, I was pulling, I was asking him, interviewing him for one of my papers for band. All right? Mm-hmm. And he was on his way to Howard University for some symposium, and I'm like, God, what's the symposium about? He's literally like, I gotta apologize to black Muslims.

Hmm.

Tell me more. You know, he is like, yeah, he is like, you know, he was under disbelief with the, you know, the, the third resurrection would be that, uh, immigrant Muslims and African American Muslims would be able to, you know, build this new identity through classical exam and classical Islam and all of that. He was like, no. He said, black Muslims wound up giving up their identity. He said, you know, you give up this space thinking that people gonna, you give up a space. And a lot of people in thinking that when the, you know, more space come in, they're gonna bring you in. They didn't bring you in. And the dialogue changed. It's, it's this way now. You know, I support everything about Palestine, but I'm like, you gotta look at, you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. I've been talking about Palestine since I was 18 years old.

Right,

right. That was my first fight. What about Palestine in college? My point is Dr. Jackson said, you know, black folk have been under the auspices of the religion, looking for a, a, a cultural and spiritual home within World Islam. That takes this whole thing out of, you know, we, we came over in slave boats, da, da, da. You know, it doesn't ready recognize that we've embraced this religion. We haven't excelled from being the, the lowest common denominator of this Islam in slavery and being able to produce, I. He says, now we can't talk about things that are important to us. So you can't talk about anti-black, uh, racism or anti-black Muslim racism. Now in this inclusive pot, you gotta talk about, uh, anti-Muslim racism or anti-immigrant racism.

Mm-hmm.

You see what I'm saying? And we don't fit in any of those.

Mm-hmm.

We don't fit in anti-Muslim racism. That is the argument with Palestine right now.

Right.

That's what dominates it. And if you understand, you know, the game, they've been trying to kill black folk for how many years We still here? Me and you doing podcasts?

Mm-hmm.

We gonna go from can't drink out of a water fountain to we doing our own podcast. Mm-hmm.

Right, right.

But in the large case, and people go, no, no, no. Sh the African American Muslim, sh you'll get your turn, you'll get your turn. We don't get our turn. Just give a, I mean, look at, you know, sna years ago in Chicago, that, that weekend was the man Walter de Muhammad's weekend. That was our weekend. And what'd he do? Hey, we're gonna shed a weekend. All of a sudden he way out in Harvey, Illinois, it might as well be St. Louis. That's how far out it was. Mm-hmm. You know, and then we have to be included back. But you set it up, why are you being included back? Right. You have a, you have a historic connotation that goes all the way back to Savior's day.

Yeah.

And now we don't have it. And the further and further people get away from that fact, it's like it never existed. Mm. So, you know, my humor does, uh, my humor cuts that way. And I know they're comedians. I know I make them uncomfortable. I'm like, 'cause I'm still here. You know, I'm an og. I just sit back and watch. You know, I, I learned, yeah. I might teach you everything, you know, but I ain't teach you everything. I know. Thank goodness hu luck. Because I never want to have to turn around on my folks and apologize because I, I, I've had great teachers. Mm-hmm. You know, I've had great teachers and I've had some, some, uh, Muslim teachers that have taught me the, the, the, uh, the thick of slick in terms, in terms of navigating the, Hey, you gotta put that on the shirt. Yeah. Yeah. I've learned the thick of slick I brother, let me talk. Nah, you ain't gotta talk to me, man. You the second one. You the third one this week came to me that hustle. Go ahead though. Practice. Right? That's what I tell him. Whatever you say, go and practice, man. Mm-hmm. I might at the end. I'm not listening to you, but

yeah.

Maybe you'll get better. But that's, that's, and that's where we are. So I think I. Humor, Muslim humor divides along that line. So when you get to Hollywood, Hollywood's like, we've been trying to kill that dude for a long time, and the best way to kill him is we're gonna have you come in, you'll set the premise. They'll go, they'll go away.

Right.

You know, they'll go away. Uh, they won't, they won't be inspired. They'll get frustrated, you know, but I'm like, miles, it ain't wrong.

It's unexpected. Hmm. I love that. I love that saying, talk a bit about the etiquette. That, and I've, I've not heard that. You know, that's why I really love the opportunities that I have to sit down and talk with. Uh, yes sir. So many different minds. And this idea of music, the orchestra, the band, right. Being a representation of etiquette, how is that being played out or what can. The Muslim community. 'cause you're really, you're talking about interfaith engagement, getting things right. Mm-hmm. Right? And there's a no, you're right. Lack of etiquette so that every instrument is not being heard. So the band, the orchestra is not coming off. Yeah. It's not So, so, so what do, what do we need to learn? You sound like a old man, Charlie. I'm, you sound like a old man. I thought it was just

me. No, no, no. I'm, you know what you sound like, what? You sound like me and you sitting in the back of a, of a jazz club and a dude come up there with a shiny suit and a shiny horn and he, he blows and everybody goes, yay, yay. And the place clears out. And I go, what? You think the young cat And you go. He's loud. What do you think? I go And he can't read music.

Hey, it inevitably will happen to you if, if you're paying attention. Yeah, it

is. It's true. No, man. You know what? Etiquette, denotes man trust. Mm. Like it denotes Trust. Trust. I'm gonna treat you a certain way.

Mm-hmm.

And shala, you treat me like it's a small thing, but it's a big thing.

Right.

Giving us lambs. Okay. Okay.

Well, you know what I'm saying? They can't see my face. They can't see your faces. I saw,

go ahead, go ahead. I say I saw Iman, uh, ached may lobby police with him Mercedes on a thing. And it was almost kind of flippant, but he said, you know, when you give us lambs, either give one that's that's equal.

Mm-hmm.

Or better,

right?

So he says. I, he says, because I want all of it.

Mm-hmm.

He said, I want the peace. He said, I want the blessings and I want the mercy. Right. He said, who don't want all those three things? He said, I want it for me. I want it for you. That's etiquette, man.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? This is the only, I'm not gonna say it's only religion, but this religion emphasizes that. Mm-hmm. Before you say, Hey, what's your name? What you doing? You may not know a person. You're gonna throw that out there. But you know, it's, you know, people go Asa a, SA why? Wasa? WAS. Yeah. I still write it out, man. 'cause I, I want, 'cause WAS to me is, is was a SA is asa it is not asum.

Right.

You know what I mean? Or they write the, with the, I'm like, nah, man, this is, and their man was correct. That the tonality of that etiquette is, is huge. You know, in the black community, man, what's, dude, you took your jihad. What's the worst, what's the word you been waiting to say? The, what's I lamb on? I used to practice in the mirror. Look over my shoulder. I slam, like walk across the street. Stop.

And not to get that back. That's, that's where I thought you were going, is not to back.

I used to chase down dudes like, Hey man, did you hear me? Look you on the point of physical assault, did you hear me give you some lambs twice, brother? Right. The first time I thought it literally, they like, oh dude, you, you out of it? I'm like, no man. I'm trying to get my, I'm trying to get this blessing. And people don't think in a, in a, in a, in a, in a band. Mm-hmm. People don't realize the, the trust band members have and the solo, you have a certain amount of bars that you're gonna play. Mm-hmm. But while you're playing, the band plays behind you to accelerate your solo.

Right.

So the piano plays a certain way, but it doesn't play over you. Mm-hmm. Uh, the drums play a certain way, but it is, so they're trying to make sure that you're heard. And when you finish your solo and people clap

mm-hmm.

The next person is starting their solo while people are clapping.

Right.

And that is the, the continuity of it. Like, it's all one thing. And I'm like, yo, continuity, trust. These things are, you know, these things are important when you start talking about etiquette and we lack it, you know, we, we lack it. I don't know why, because, you know, we have, you have the ultimate cheat code at a Koran and, and Senator Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessed be a part of what at is street level. Mm-hmm. At a street lot, bro. It, it's, it's so dynamic. You know, I, I've gone out with I Khan and, and, and, you know, tough areas of Houston and watch that guy sit on the back of a truck with a bullhorn going through, you know, some of the roughest projects and you hear, hey, the Muslims says here, the Muslims coming. He'd be bringing food. Him and his wife, sister saying, and their crew, the Muslims are here. And he and he, but every time they give it back, I Sala Lake them. I lake them. And then you see people coming back for food, going, I practice. Well, lake Myam, you know, I gotta go through that with my mom. My mom doesn't say, she said she practices. Yeah. She's like, I want you to get all the blessings that you can. I'm like, dude, this is, this is a very valuable currency that we are not putting out there. This is, you know, it should be like the slam Bitcoin. You know what I mean? Right. Um, and people don't understand that. And again, that slam is the lowest common, common denominator of society if you're putting that on them, you know, what is the win, what's the quotient for their improvement?

Mm.

Or quote the quotient where they reevaluate their own self-image.

You have had the opportunity to be around people, throw out the word uma all the time, and sometimes they're talking about, they're talking about the UMA in their state or their city. You've had the opportunity to really travel around the world and be in different spaces, you know, and see the, the diversity, the plurality of the, the Muslim, uh, um, uh, uh, population. Right. And the experience. Thinking about this in terms of the, going back to music, right? I'm a huge, most of us are huge music lovers, but giving us education. I'm gonna,

I'm gonna send you my, um, my, I'm gonna send you love Supreme anatomy to make writers. Please do. I, I can't wait to, uh, to, to look at, but you're gonna be like, yeah, you're gonna be like, you gonna look like what? 'cause it was funny because the crowd doesn't know what's gonna happen. Really?

Really?

They have no idea. So, so, so they don't know why. They don't know why band is on stage.

Okay. So, so check this out. No idea. Check, check this out. We are without recognizing it, every group, however, we are grouped in this human family, uh, if it be by faith tradition, if it be by, um, nationality. However, we group ourselves. We are, we get a chance to, to solo. We get a chance to play something that is heard by the rest of the human family. The etiquette that you've talked about, the and which implies trust. I love that. Right. It implies that trust, it implies an awareness that you are part of something bigger than yourself and mm-hmm. When you think about it, the, the uma, what are some of the things that we, the Uma needs to do so that it is sounding right? It is sounding that beauty is recognized by the rest of humanity, because that's, that's what we're really doing. We're, we're giving something in our group presentation.

Well, it's, it is interesting you say that. Mm-hmm. Um, because there's, there's two distinctions of what you just said. Mm-hmm. Um, one is sound. Yeah. One is noise. Hmm. Yeah. Sound is natural. Um, inviting, subtle. Noise is, I want you, it's, it's, it's disruptive.

Yeah.

I want you to hear, when you hear beautiful sound from a van mm-hmm. It's different than noise. It's inviting. And I think the thing, you know, what I see is we don't, we don't reclassify what etiquette means. And what I mean by that is there needs, there's a curriculum by which things are passed around. I, I, I'll give you a great example on my, um, I should have put it in my, my thesis, but I didn't.

Mm-hmm.

Um, one of my performances was at, uh, a prison. I did a e charter prison. Mm-hmm. In fact, uh, brother Muhammad Ali, who was a bayan, um. Band alumni. He was a chaplain at the, the prison out of Vacaville. Mm-hmm. And he asked me, could I get you to come out here? And I was like, why are you acting all scared? You know? Do you think I'm like, you ask questions. It's like I, I'm like, dude, I know Kas locked up. Of course I I've done it before. Yeah, we should, we should do it. And I remember had to do two shows, the first show, and they had no idea I was a comedian. They're just happy to see people come visit. Right. So they couldn't realize, they a little put off. I don't eat before shows 'cause I don't like to get sluggish. I don't wanna get Isis.

Right.

Um, so they're giving me this two hit ball. I'm like, I can't eat it right now. I'm getting ready. Huh? What? I can't eat right now. I literally go up on stage. Worst intro in the world. Um, dude's doing spoke word all we got this dude here. That's the way you feel. We got this dude here. And I'm telling Muhammad, just calm down man. I I got it. I got it. This is nothing new. Remember, I've been fired in Chicago at the Cotton Club. Ain't nobody going nowhere in the prison. Right. Um, and we went up and rocked it and, and you know, we had a good time. But it was the second show. First show had like 80 people. The second show, well, 80 Muslims incarcerated Muslim second show had like 160 incarcerated Muslims. Mm-hmm. And world travels fast.

Yeah.

Like world travels fast. Oh man, da da da, Muslim comedian, the prison, da, da da. So the second group, they harder now 'cause they heard the first group, now you really gotta make me laugh. Etiquette. I said, who's the? You know who's, who's, who's the captain of here? Who's the halal Amir here? I was like, who's the og? Mm-hmm. And they said him over there, etiquette. I walked over, I said, listen, sir, before we get started, he, he told me he'd been locked up for like 50 years. I said, um, before we get started, is it all right to do this? Mm, they follow you. They're right to do this. And he was shocked. I was like, yeah. He said, what you mean? I said, no, you know, sometimes you can put things in the air and you leave and it affects the thing. I wanna make sure everything's all right. And he is like, yeah man, I appreciate that. You know? He goes, I appreciate that. And uh, and then he just opened up. He said, yo, man, you know, in this joint. Uh, Billy to laugh is the last thing they ain't took from us and da da da. And we were just talking. He was like, uh, the classic prison story. They bought us food, right. And I'm not gonna eat. I said, yo, you want my thing? He said, you give it to him, give it to him. Give it to him. He'll give it back to me. I'm like, gotcha. Went up, had a killer show, came back the next year, had a killer show, and it all had to do with etiquette. And it's like, I'm, I'm in here with y'all,

right.

I'm in here with you. I'm here Be for an hour, whatever. And being able to sit and just talk, you know, classic prison story. He had this, had, this Pakistani dude came over to me. Um, I know, I know. I'm, I'm, I'm digressing a little bit, but it's hilarious. It's a prison story. Mm-hmm. This Pakistani brother came up with a Kofi. You know how the Kofi with the fun of it is knocked out? Yeah. And man, he's hitting me with dua's He hit me with hadith and cinema, man. He's deep. I'm like, man, ooh man. He's messing my mind up. I gotta do a show, man. You know? Da da da. Okay brother. He walks off and the brother goes, yeah man, don't listen to him, dude, man, he killed his wife.

Alright, family. We have come to the conclusion of another episode of the American Muslim Podcast. This is part one of our conversation with Preacher Moss. I hope that you have enjoyed it and I hope that you'll be back with us next week for part two. But between now and then, if you find value in these conversations, we invite you to support the work of Bayan Islamic Graduate School by going to bayan online.org and joining our community of learners. $10 a month gets you access to over 30 graduate level classes taught by some of the most sought after and respected Muslim scholars and practitioners in the nation. While there, we ask for you to contribute to the Muhammad Ali Scholarship Fund. Over 70% of Vian students, our scholarship recipients and your contributions support those who are supporting our communities. Alright, that's all I have for you. Thank you for joining us. Again, I'm your host. I, ma'am. Tariq Klain. I leave you as I greeted you. Asum. May the peace that only God can give be upon you.