Welcome to Close it now, the podcast that's revolutionizing the H Vac and home improvement trades industries.

Get ready to dive deep into the world of heating, ventilation and air conditioning.

We're turning up the heat on industry standards and cooling down misconceptions.

And we're not just talking about fixing vents and adjusting thermostats.

It's about the transformative movement that's reshaping the very foundation of H Vac and home improvement.

We're the driving force, inspiring top performers who crave excellence not only in their professional endeavors, but also in fitness, nutrition, relationships, and personal growth, proving that we can indeed have it all.

This is Close it now, where excellence meets excitement.

Let's get to work now.

Your host, Sam Wakefield.

Well, all right.

Welcome back to Close It Now.

Sam Wakefield here.

And I am beside myself to have this guest on today.

He is, you know the name.

If you don't know the name of the company, you will.

And especially in home services and anything that honestly, anything that has a verbal conversation with a buyer, I can pretty much imagine that you will hear this company name sliding into basically everywhere because I tell you, this is the hottest thing going right now and I love what it is able to effectively allow us to do so with.

Now.

Now to get past the mystery, there's a, as you know, that this name starts.

Really starts to is making it speak for itself.

So I'm so blessed and honored to have the CEO and founder of RILLA on the episode today.

This is Sebastian Jimenez.

Thank you for joining me, sir.

Thank you so much, Sam, for having me here.

Super excited.

I know we have a few friends in common, so I'm really excited to be doing this with you today.

Thank you for having me.

Absolutely.

Yeah, we definitely do.

And you know, it's always fun when I meet new guests and there's something that always pops up that I really want to talk about and kind of dive into for a minute before we really get into the interview.

For everybody listening, we were just kind of chatting before this episode started.

So a little bit of context here.

Sebastian happens to be at his home home office today instead of in the office.

And something he said to me just hit a massive chord because Sebastian, one of the things that Close it now is about is improving people.

One of the things we say all the time is work to become someone worth buying from.

And then as you up level your own personal growth and your life in all of the different elements, leaders or readers and all those kind of things, then everything else falls into place behind it.

So something you said in a minute ago, and for everybody listening, he pointed to this massive bookcase behind him in his office and said, this is our tv.

In our home, we don't have a television.

We have this bookcase.

I'd love for you to talk about that a little bit.

How important is personal growth in your life and what started you on that journey?

Oh my God.

So.

We have a principle at Rilla.

We have eight operating principles at our company.

And really my principles that I live by and I just basically enforce them upon the company.

The company is like an extension of my principles, of course.

And so it's your company.

Yeah, exactly.

So one of my core principles is, is in the companies is.

And it's principle number number three at Rilla, it's maximize your productive time.

And so everybody who knows really knows.

We work insanely hard.

We work our company, we work like six days a week on average.

We work 12 hour days from Sundays through Fridays.

We take rest on Saturday so that we can kind of recharge and then come back and do it again.

And so I just, yeah, I just, I.

And for me that's.

It's really important to, to maximize every waking mom, every sleeping moment.

It's just really important to maximize our time in this world.

I mean, if you think about human beings, humanity's been around for less than like 1% of Earth's history.

Most of the people that have ever been alive are dead.

And we are very lucky that we're alive here today.

You and I talking and there's all these interesting things happening in the world.

And so I think life is truly a blessing.

It's a loan that we have to pay back, all of us at some point.

And, and I think that, yeah, just to me, one of the.

I read this book, I used to be like this all the time.

Like just very.

I'm like adhd.

I have the H in adhd, which is hyper hyperactivity, which turns into hyper focus.

So I like to focus a lot.

And so I read this book, it's called Flow the Psychology of Optimal Experience.

And in the book the author describes, it's one of those books over there, it was written in the 1990s.

And he describes this, he describes the span of a human life as like bits of information that you can process.

Right?

Because he's explaining how flow happens and flow when you're in the flow.

When an athlete is basically, you know, in the zone taking a penalty kick when he's about to make the game winning play at the Last minute.

When you have an artist that's doing a performance, when you're in the flow, that's like the most elated.

That's the like.

That's like the fundamental experience of being a human being when you're like, completely focused.

Absolutely.

And so flow is all about attention, right?

So he explains flow as like, your brain has limited attention span and limited memory.

The human being can process about seven bits of information every 1/18 of a second.

And if you do the math on that, like, how many bits of information can the human being process in an entire lifetime?

It comes to about, like 85 billion bits of information or something like that.

I could have the math wrong.

But if you just do that math, seven bits of information, 1/18 of a second times 18 per second.

So then you do how many seconds in a day, how many years, how many, how many days in a year, how many years does the average human being live?

You literally get the calculus of how many bits of information can the single human being process in a lifetime?

And it's about 85 billion.

85 billion bits of information.

That's the human lifetime.

It's 85 billion bits of information.

But in the book, the whole thing he talks about is that most of the time, people do not reach that potential.

It's almost impossible, actually, because to reach that potential, that means you have to live in the flow, every single waking moment and sleeping moment of your life.

Because that means that you have to literally process the maximum amount.

That's when you're in flow.

When you're in flow, it means that your brain is so focused on what it's doing that it doesn't have attention to do anything else because it's so consumed.

And he basically says that the average American only gets to about 2 billion bits of information that they process in their lifetime because they spend, you know, two or three hours watching TV after work, their leisure time.

Most people do not spend their leisure time.

Like, people think that they hate working.

They actually spend more of their time at work in the flow.

And their leisure time because of social media, because of tv, they spend it so it's not focused, right?

Like if you're playing some TV there, like, the TV doesn't require all of your attention, so it's like something that you play in the background there.

So most people live up to very little of their information processing potential.

And that to me is like, okay, I have 85 billion bits of information that I can use while I'm alive.

So I want to make sure I get I got as many max as I can.

I love it.

This is beautiful.

And no doubt that clearly your life is Rilla.

It sounds like just an extension of this exact same thought process and ideology.

Yes, yeah.

I mean, if you think of Rilla.

So for those of you who don't know what Rila is, we're the leading virtual rattling software for the home improvement industry.

What that means is when H vac technicians, plumbers, electricians, window siding, flooring doors, sales reps, anybody who's out there selling to customers, they talk to them in the home.

Usually they record their conversations with the Rila mobile app through their phones or tablets.

And then we use AI to transcribe, analyze and give them feedback to help them improve their sales and to help their sales managers do what we call virtual ride alongs that are 100 times faster, better and more productive than physical ride alongs.

And so really we're talking about this point about how you can actually increase the bits of information that you process in a day to day basis.

So there's two things.

Number one, the manager, the sales manager, the average sales manager or service manager is able to do if you're a good sale, if you're a great sales or service manager.

If you ask the average sales manager or service manager, how many ride alongs did you do last month?

Number one answer to that question is not enough.

As I should be.

Yeah.

What they mean by that is I didn't do any.

Right.

I didn't go out on anything.

I just sat in the office and had them call me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they don't do it because it's very time consuming.

But if you're a great sales and service manager, if you really, really care, you're going to be going out there maybe like two, maybe three days a week.

And it was two to three days a week, you're going to be able to do maybe like four or five, six ride alongs maybe.

But you manage a team of 10 technicians.

If those technicians are doing three appointments a day, you know, three appointments a day, that's 30 a day, times five days a week that they're working, that's going to be about 150 appointments.

You're only going to be seeing like 1% of the totality of the appointments.

If you're spending a lot of time doing.

Right.

Alongs.

Hours, Right.

So with Rilla, that sales and service manager, and instead of because of physical ride along, it takes like three hours.

You have to drive there, you have to look, watch the whole appointment you have to give feedback to the technician right there and then.

And, and then it takes a lot of time.

With Rilla, we took down the average time to do a ride along from three hours to three minutes.

Right?

So, so because it's, it's all virtual, right?

So not.

You don't have to drive number one.

Number two, it's not a recording.

It is a recording, but you don't have to listen to the whole two hours or the whole hour.

The AI gives you all the bits and pieces that are important.

It gives you a score.

It gives you all the things that happen or didn't happen in the call that were supposed to happen.

It gives you everything that happens.

So you could give feedback, which is what you do best.

And so you could look at a conversation, see exactly what happened, give feedback in three minutes.

So you just make the ride along from 180 minutes to three minutes.

It's like a 60 times improvement on the speed.

60 times.

So now you can process more.

Right?

So we have managers who went from doing like four ride alongs a month, once a week that are now doing 400 ride alongs a month on Rilla.

500 ride alongs a month, 600.

We have a manager, there's a thousand ride alongs a month because he reviews every single one of the appointments.

So you increase the information processing power of the human brain with technology.

And the other thing that happens is for the technician and the sales rep, Think about it this way.

With Rilla, not only are you getting more feedback from your sales manager.

So, so not, not only are you learning more, because for every conversation that you do, it's now being reviewed by your coach.

So you're getting feedback.

You have the opportunity to do self coaching by looking at what the top performers are doing in your team.

So imagine, imagine if you're in a team of, let's say five.

Five technicians, Just a team of five, usually home service and home home improvement sales.

It's a, it's a, it's a solo sport.

It's a single player game.

You go out there, you do your thing and most of the time you're out there on your own.

And so the best technicians that take them years and to learn the trick, to learn how to talk to people, to learn the soft skills, to learn how to actually turn that repair call into a replacement.

Like it takes a long time because you're learning from your own trial and error.

What happens with Rilla is now you're not only learning from your own trial and error, you're learning from your own trial and error.

You're able to review a game film like, like athletes do every single time that they practice, you can review.

So you're getting more learning per call.

You're also able to review everybody else's.

So.

And the AI, you know, analyzes everybody's calls and gives you from what everybody did, what's good, what's bad in it.

And it shows you what the top performers are doing.

And so now you're not only learning at your own speed, you're learning at 5x the speed because you're learning, you know what I mean, from everybody else.

If you're in a team of 10, you're learning at 10x the speed because the AI summarizing all the findings from the 10.

If you're in a person that has, if you're in a company that has 100 people, you're going to be learning 100 times faster than before.

Because now it's a multiplayer game where everybody's learning from each other.

It's like, we call it like, kind of like all for one, one for all.

Every time you record, you're helping somebody, you're helping yourself, you're helping somebody else, and everybody's helping you.

And it's all in the palm of your hand.

So you're increasing the, we're increasing the total information processing power for the human beings who use rilla, which I think it's a beautiful.

I love this so much.

So a couple clarification questions here because honestly, this is the most in depth I've had a conversation about it.

I've been watching what's going on.

I'm curious.

So the cool thing from what I understand about AI is of course, first of all, it's learning.

So it's constantly refining and developing as it learns.

So question though.

So say I've got a team of five technicians and a couple salespeople.

Yes, I understand, you know, working within the team to learn best practices of those top performers.

But what if my company is just average or subpar?

Then what happens?

How do we get better if we don't have rock stars within our own team to.

Yep.

Be able to analyze against.

So, yeah, so we didn't used to have this because we were getting started.

I mean, back.

We realized we started selling to home improvement contractors back in January 2022.

We started selling.

Since then we've, we've grown to thousands and thousands of customers across the United States.

I think we're in, we're the only two state we're missing Alaska and one other state.

That's the only two states that we're not in.

So Alaska.

There's a plumber in Alaska.

Just give us a call.

Everybody else I know, I have people that listen in Alaska.

So pop me a message.

Pop Sebastian a message.

Let's get you hooked up on the list.

So we're like all over the country, we have like tens of thousands of technicians and comfort advisors and salespeople using Rilla.

And this last February, March, we had like 2 million conversations that we had analyzed with AI.

I don't know, I need to check the number now, but it's in the millions and millions and millions of conversations that we've analyzed in the home.

So if you think our AI, we call him Rick, it's Rick.

A RILLA Rick.

And Rick has basically seen a few hundred years worth of human a few hundred human years worth of sales calls in the home.

That's what Rick has seen.

And so in the RILLA database, in the RILLA repository, which is millions of conversations, we have been fortunate.

Now that we have our AI has seen, what is it that the top 1% of top performers across the country are doing differently than everybody else?

And so now we can share that with people.

So it's all anonymized data.

What is it that the top performers across the country are doing different than anybody else?

You could divide it and we could divide it by technicians versus comfort advisors, you can divide it versus plumbers versus electricians, and for comfort advisors, for instance, for replacement sales.

Just to give you guys an idea of what a top performer means, we have people in the REALA database right now, like the top 1% of top performers across the country.

These are people who are generating over 7 million, over 8 million, over 10 million, over $13 million of annual sales to their company single handedly.

These are people.

$13 million as an H vac replacement salesman, right?

That a year.

I have a follow up question with this because I've had a really big bone to pick with those kind of numbers for a little while.

So I'm curious to know actual details.

But, but keep going.

And yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I also, when they told me those numbers, I was like, this is some bullshit.

But yeah, I was like, this is, and these are, by the way, these are these people that I'm thinking about because I know them, I've seen them.

They're really customers.

They're not, you would think, like, oh, they're doing online sales, they're doing inside sales.

Like there's People that, that have an inside sales model where, where they're able to take eight appointments a day and they're able to like, you know, get more appointments than anybody else.

The call by call, I'm literally talk.

Yeah, so callback.

I'm talking about people who are out there selling in the home face to face, who are selling 8 million, 9 million, 10 million, $13 million of annual sales.

So that's, that's what I'm thinking about.

That was.

So that was the question because, you know, there's a handful of people that have been, you know, famously in the industry and on podcasts and those kind of things, but when they really start talking about it, they only, the only appointments they get are the grand, guaranteed grand slam.

The system is completely down and they have a team of people to go out.

So they only show up for like fractions of time.

So there's.

Yes, yes.

And that's certainly happening.

And by the way, this is, I want to say, like, I want to say this.

So there is, as a salesperson, right, Anything that you're selling, you're going to.

There's your natural talent, your natural size ability.

You're going to control your close rate and your average ticket, Right?

You can control that.

But you know, like the quality of the leads, like the whole structure, all of these people, they're not working at like, you know, like mom and pop shops.

They're working at some of the best ran companies in the country and they have a whole, like you said, they have a whole structure of technicians under them that, you know, turn over leads, like leads that are literally right there on a, on a silver platter.

So, so they're doing way more volume, they're closer.

It is insanely high.

We're talking about people that for replacement sales or their closures are like 70%, 75%, 80%.

So their closings are insane.

So they have a lot going.

Like a lot of things have to go right as a structure for you to be able to make these numbers.

Right.

Yeah.

But nonetheless, we want to figure out, okay, what, what we at really can figure out in the home, what is it that they're doing differently than everybody else.

Right, exactly.

So, so if you think, if you think to yourself, like, you know, I'm an average replacement salesperson selling equipment, you're going to be around like a million, 2 million, maybe $3 million of annual sales.

If you're in a great company, you're going to be up there in 4 million, 5 million.

And then there's these Rare cases where you're just going to, you're just going to go past that at the right company at the right time in the right market.

Right?

So, so we figured out what like, what is it that makes these people different?

And so like the first thing that we found was talk ratio.

You know, the top performers, the top 1% of top performers are talking between 45 and sorry, the average, that the average technician or the average comfort advisor, they talk between 75 and 85% of the time versus a homeowner.

So I talk 75% of the time.

Homeowner talks like 25 or I talk 85% of the time.

Com owner talks 15.

That's the range.

So they're talking, talking, talking.

The top performing comfort advisors, technicians, they talk between 45 and 65% of the time.

So right around the 50, 50 range.

And so basically the biggest difference or one of the biggest differences, they actually have a conversation versus just doing an in person advertisement.

You know, just telling the customer like a whole cookie cutter thing.

Classic Brian Tracy quote.

Facts tell, stories sell, right?

Yes.

Ask how do you tell a story that connects with somebody, how do you tell a story that connects with somebody if you have no idea who they are, what they care about, what are their problems, what are their needs, what are their desires, what are their, you know, regrets?

Like you have no idea.

So and so you set the next thing which we found, it's like okay, how do the top performers talk less is a very simple Jedi mind trick which you just said, just ask more questions.

Right?

The top performers in the industry, they Talk, they ask 25 open ended questions per hour versus the average technicians, Comfort Advisors, they ask five open ended questions per hour.

So five times the number of open ended questions so that they can actually keep that talk ratio very low.

Okay, so.

Or 50, 50.

So to and an open ended question.

What we saw, it's like you unpack the data, you start looking at the qualitative is like the average salesperson will go out there and they will ask the open ended questions.

The beginning of the call.

What, what seems to be the issue?

What, what made you call us here today?

How long have you been living in the home?

Like how old is the unit?

They just go through their checklist of things that they're supposed to do at the beginning and then they're done.

There's no more open ended questions.

That's it.

Off to the race.

My checklist done.

What the top performers do is the, they ask open ended questions throughout every single step of the conversation, they do that and then they go into their presentation, they're presenting the new, you know, a new thermostat.

They're presenting the new equipment.

And why, why?

This one's not up to code and this one is and all these different features and all the options and they're doing that and they notice a homeowner really like something that they said and they stop and they say, hey, it sounds like that resonated with you.

What about that resonated with you?

Or hey, it sounds like it looks like I'm losing you here.

Where did I lose you?

Yeah, because they want to generate that interaction with the homeowner and they bring up open ended questions.

After they present price, you start getting objections.

I need to think about it.

I need to talk to my husband, my wife.

Or does the top performer say instead of like, there's another stat that we found that is like the average reps, they start talking faster when objections come up.

So their heart rate races, they get a little bit nervous.

Top performers, what do they do?

They stop, they slow down, their talk speed slows, slows down.

And they ask at open ended questions, oh, price is too high.

What do you mean by that?

What does that mean to you?

Like, okay, how are you thinking about it?

And then they'll be like, oh, the price is too high.

Because I had another guy come out here and they gave me a quote that was less than half of what you quoted me.

Like, oh, tell me a little bit more about this person.

Who is that?

Yeah, questions, questions, questions.

Yeah, about the company.

How long have they been in business?

Did you check them out ahead of time?

Did you read the reviews?

Yes.

And so because, because when you go into.

Objection handling mode, it's.

You're supposed to.

This is what the top performers are doing.

You're not supposed to go into debate mode, which is what people go.

It's like, I debate, debate, debate.

You know, you cannot win a debate with the homeowner because they're the jury.

They're the jury.

You cannot win the debate against the jury.

So you can't out debate them.

Be like, yeah, you might win the debate, but you're gonna lose the deal.

You're not making the sale.

That's the whole point.

Yeah.

So, so you can't.

They have to decide.

So your job is like to, to help them make the decision, the best decision for them, which hopefully aligns with what you're selling.

Right.

And so what the top performers do is they go on discovery.

They go like on Discovery on steroids.

They, they start asking way more questions here than before because they really want to understand what is it about this deal that I. Oh, these options I propose that doesn't work.

What, what's holding the homeowner?

Because it's typically not price.

Instead somebody says price.

There's so many layers deep that, that people will justify a price for any, anything that they really want, they'll justify the price for, you know, any time.

So, so open ended questions, talk speed, keeping it slow and keeping it steady when you're dealing with objections.

And then another one.

And we talked about this, we were talking about with Tim from Hook Agency and this is like every single time that we've brought up this stat and I'm actually super curious to get your thoughts.

Every single time we bring up this stat.

This is probably the one that I wanted to talk to you about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we've had.

And guys, every single time we've cut these numbers, we've cut the numbers for repair calls, for service calls, for technicians.

We've cut the numbers for replacement sales.

We've cut the numbers for the industry at large for home improvement.

Every single time we've got these numbers.

It's the same kind of trend.

We looked at what is the correlation between length of time in the home, length of the conversation because we measure that with rilla, how long are you there talking to the customer?

And we looked at what, how does this correlate to close rates and how does this correlate to average tickets?

And what we found.

We have all these reports@rilla.com Rilla Labs it's called the Rilla Labs because we publish a bunch of these science data for sales.

Beautiful.

And I'll make sure everybody that is listening in drive time University I'll make sure to get that link in the show notes so you can go back later and click on it and read through this yourself.

Yeah.

So we're putting all those reports.

So this one you go to the Rilla.com Rilla Labs and you look for the one about time and home.

And what we found was that the longer you spend in the home, the higher the average tickets and the higher the close rates.

Just to give you an idea, let me just look at the report so time in Homerilla Labs so I can give you the actual.

Yeah, so I'm going to talk about for replacement sales right now.

Right.

So this is replacement sales.

This is comfort Advisor selling a unit.

Right.

The average length of the conversations that did not sell.

So these are Conversations that you didn't get the sale was 1 hour and 24 minutes.

The average length of the conversation where the sale was made, where you did get out of there with the sale was 2 hours and 1 minutes.

So the length of the conversation of the ones that closed was 30% longer.

Right.

So there's a clear correlation there of time and home, two hours to close the sale on average and an hour and 24 minutes to not close the sale.

And when you go into average tickets, right, you go into average tickets, let me see here.

Average ticket, this one's a little bit.

So the people listening, I just want to tell you the number so you guys can see that.

Okay, so here's the average ticket.

And again, this is for, this is for.

We looked at replacement sales.

So this is, this is including H Vac, but it's also including garage, it's including windows, including baths and kitchens.

So this is like an overall industry.

We did another one for, for, for technicians that I'm happy to talk about.

But this is for replacement sales.

So the graph, and I'm going to explain to everybody, and it's like real labs@real labs.com reala.com and basically the correlation between hours, ticket and time and home, if you're spending about zero hours to 30 minutes in the home, your average ticket is going to be about, you know, $4,000, a little bit less than $4,000.

If you start spending an hour to an hour and 30 minutes, your average ticket is going to go up to $6,000.

The correlation keeps going up and up and up.

After the 1 hour and 30 minute mark and the 2 hour mark, the highest average ticket on average that we saw is $16,000.

Right.

And the average time at home is three hours and 30 minutes.

Three hours and 30 minutes for an average ticket of 16,000.

About 17,000 actually.

It's almost like $18,000.

Sure.

So, and that's average, right?

There's going to be people are going to be above that, there's going to be people that are below.

But the graph just doesn't keep like it doesn't stop.

You see the graph and the more time at home, it's correlated with higher average tickets and higher close rates.

And again, we've done the numbers for so many different ways and the correlation is always there, which is very weird because, because you would think, oh, there's going to be diminishing marginal returns.

Like after three hours, you think about three hours, you're going to want to.

Kick you out of their house.

So That's, I'm.

I'm actually curious to hear your thoughts because again this is just data that we're presenting.

Yeah, I have a bunch of hypotheses about why this is but so what do you think?

So I'm super.

Yeah.

So I'm super curious.

One, have you class.

So I know you said you've classified them a thousand different ways.

Have you done any type of sorting of different markets like urban versus rural or any kind of classifications like that?

Because I'm curious.

We have not.

I'm very curious because in my career I've worked in both very rural markets and very city focused urban markets.

And from what I've seen, average time in home is dramatically different based on that alone.

For first of all, Second of all, I'm curious because this falls into my wheelhouse as far as how I've built the close it now system.

There's a massive amount.

So the whole, the whole point, the whole way that I built the system is based on the moment of rapport.

A huge portion of it is the moment of rapport, meaning that most people and I'd be curious to know if this is something you can track in the data.

The moment of rapport happens for most people at least traditionally 15, 20 minutes into the appointment.

The way that I've built the sales system, it smashes it forward to about five to seven minutes and then you're co creating the project moving forward.

So my data, at least what I've tracked for myself and my sales teams across the last decade, our averages are two hours less and our average tickets fall right into the 16, 18K range.

So I'm curious if something that's very, very mindset NLP psychology focused changes things.

So just, just makes me wonder if different cell systems length of time changes accordingly.

So and by the way, when I mentioned some of these guys that are closing, you know the 8 million, 9 million, $10 million, $13 million, some of them are actually in that system where they actually go in like they do.

A lot of them do like a lot of volume in the day.

So they will literally be in and out of the house in like 30 minutes or 45 minutes.

So.

So this is again industry averages across the country.

We actually haven't done that by rural market or urban markets.

So I actually wrote that down because we can actually do that.

Very curious.

I have a suspicion that that might change it slightly as far as length of average times.

Just again I trained in so many different places so I felt the difference when we're There.

So like, and again, this is really important just to, just to caveat.

This correlation does not imply causation.

Right?

Correlation is just simply a correlation.

Like, so two things are correlated with each other.

So what you're pointing out is, which is true, like when we saw it for technicians, it's like, oh, average time at home leads to higher average tickets.

Well, one easy explanation that wouldn't be a causal risk.

It was just a correlation.

It's like, oh, when you are doing larger like jobs, repair or servicing, you are going to have to take more time to do the inspection because maybe the, the job is a little bit more complicated, the home is a little bit larger, so you have to walk around for longer.

And then to actually do a lot of the times the technician will literally sell the job and install it right there, like, and do the job.

And so then you might just spend more time actually doing the job because it's more complicated, it's more higher average tickets.

So that's like one very easy variable to explain the technicians.

So, so, so it could be, it could very well be like, oh, in, in rural areas you're gonna have a higher average ticket because there's more new homes built there.

And so then there's more opportunity for replacement sales there.

So then the close rate is.

So there could be a. I, I have not, we've, we haven't done the numbers like that.

So I, I'm actually really interested.

We're gonna, we're gonna push it out in the real labs next month.

There you go.

I love it.

Call that the closing or something.

And, and by the way, so if you or anybody in the who's watching or listening to the podcast has any kind of like, questions about things that they'd be curious to learn of, like what is happening in the home of like, how can we optimize the sales process even further?

If you guys put that in the comments, we will probably come out with a real labs report to address that.

Because, because we literally again, we have so many and it takes, it doesn't take us long to do this analysis is like we have an AI that you can just ask questions like ChatGPT, but you ask a question about the entire conversational database.

So we could do this analysis like super quickly.

So if anybody has like more questions, I actually love to hear them so that we can publish more of these reports.

I love it.

So if you have those, definitely put them in the comments.

Email me directly at Sam Close it now.net or just pop a text.

Pop the question over 5, 1, 2, 3, 6, 4, 8, 5, 5, 9.

And I will make sure that Sebastian gets a hold of those and we can.

Let's grow this thing, make it better.

Every single one, right?

Yeah.

I'd be actually super curious.

We recently did a series in financing so we can actually look at how much time they're spending building rapport, by the way.

That's something you can do because you can literally ask the AI how long are people spending talking about rapport?

And we saw that, we looked at financing, we did a financing series.

There's a high correlation between using financing and, and actually increasing your close rates.

But actually the financing, it doesn't, it's not highly correlated with close, it's highly correlated with average tickets.

It's like, it actually is like a.

When you use financing versus when you don't like the average ticket almost triples in a.

It's like crazy on average.

And most people, most people are at least for the real customer base.

We work with like a lot of the large contractors, a lot of the top contractors in the country.

So most of our user base, like the majority of the conversations do use financing.

It's like about 70% of the time.

But again, you have to take into account that we have like, you know, a different sample size because our customers are like big, big private equity backed and stuff like that.

So.

But yeah, when you don't use financing, it's like it drops your average ticket.

Of course.

Yeah.

So you can ask all sorts of questions.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, I love this.

Well, let's turn the corner a little bit to something that we were talking about ahead of time.

And because I know that RILLA is dramatically affect, obviously everything it studies, but it's dramatically effective at coaching people to get better.

And one of the places that there's such a clear difference of top performers versus everyone else is door to door campaigns.

Door to door.

Because the people that are good at it just absolutely kill and everyone else is trying to figure out how to figure it out.

So this takes us to the self generating world that I was wanting to camp out for a little bit.

So let's talk a little bit about that because I know that they're specifically in H Vac, people are scared to get back out and hit the doors.

And I've been the advocate for it for the last several years.

Especially in a time when digital ads are so insanely expensive that space is just overrun with its glut of, you know, everybody's trying to digital ad and nobody's doing it the old school guerrilla marketing way.

So let's talk about that a little bit because I know that that is obviously foundational to rilla and.

Yeah.

What does self generating mean to you?

And let's get maybe if you have some best practices and hot tips for.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, so like what you're talking about there, Sam, super important.

And you know, like people think about sales.

Sales is super important.

But it has to be, it has to, it has to be like sales has to be coupled with an amazing marketing strategy.

Right.

Because if you don't generate leads and you can't close them and the two go together.

Sales and marketing.

Marketing and sales.

And so we have an interesting vantage point here because we serve not only home services businesses, we serve home remodeling businesses as well.

And this is something that the home remodelers have done, I would say a little bit better.

What I've seen between the two and home remodeling is like windows, baths, kitchens, you know, garage home services would be like extract plumbing, electrician.

That's how I'm thinking about it.

Right.

And roofing is usually falls in that category.

Roofing, that's a big one.

Yes, exactly.

And so what I've seen, the home services folks are insanely sophisticated with operations, with their tech stack, right?

They're insanely sophisticated more than the home remodelers.

But the home remodelers are more sophisticated when it comes to their marketing strategies because in their business model if you're, if you're, if you're a window company like Renewal by Andersen, right.

You, nobody's like, you have to generate a lot of leads to make your business because it's not like, oh, the local shop is going to call you like every day your plumbing's down and you need to come and fix it, right.

It's like, you know, these windows, you're going to do it like maybe once or twice in your lifetime is when you're going to replace your windows.

So they have to be insanely sophisticated at sales.

And it's a market.

Yeah, it's a want based sale, not a need.

It's a, it's, it's, it's like a spectrum, right?

So like you, you, you think of needs, right?

It's like, okay, my plumbing, I need to fix my plumbing today, right?

My, my, it's Texas in the middle of the summer.

It's Dallas, Texas and my AC is down.

I need to get that, I need to get it fixed right?

And then, and then you go into like, okay, so if it's cold in the winter in some markets, then you're going to be thinking about a window, right?

So, so it's like a spectrum of, of needs, right, Versus like if you're in Houston, the weather's kind of funny.

Like windows are not, you know what I mean?

It's more of a want.

So, so, so a lot of these customers, a lot of these companies, they have had to like the home remodelers, they've had to get really sophisticated over the Next, the last 20 years at SEO at generating leads.

And if you look at the top performing companies in home remodeling, like power home remodeling, like you know, Westshore Home, they all have a self generating leads aspect because not only in the bad times, in the bad times, you know, when, when interest rates go up and leads, the price for leads online goes up dramatically because it's just, it's just a supply and demand issue.

You have the most amount of contractors that you've ever had in history and you also have a dwindling demand from homeowners that are looking for home improvement projects because they have less money to spend, they qualify less for financing.

The interest rates are high, right?

So when the interest rates are high, people would rather keep their, their money in the bank rather than spend in the economy.

And so, so you have less demand, you have less, less leads or less supply of leads because there's less demand from homeowners and you have more demand for leads.

That's going to drive the price of leads up and that's what's happening.

So as soon, any time that happens, you see these ebbs and flows in the market.

It's like, oh, let's go back to canvasing, let's stop canvassing.

Let's go back to canvassing the best companies in the home remodeling industry.

I'm thinking about the power homes, the west, your homes.

These are multibillion dollar organizations.

They all have a self generating marketing aspect where they either do canvassing, they're world class at rehashing and rehashing their own customers and, and trying to, at cross selling, they sell multiple trades or multiple products and they cross sell between departments insanely like in an insanely sophisticated manner.

And so what they do when you, when you have a self generating generated lead, you're not, it's so great because not only is the cost lower now because the cost will like people think, like, oh, canvassing so expensive.

No, it's not going to cost you $100 per lead or $200 per lead that we've seen in some market.

It's not going to cost you.

It's the cost.

The real cost is that you actually have to put in the work to actually, you have to like produce it and you have to manage it and you have to.

That's the real cost, is that you have to do it.

But when it comes on a unit basis, it's going to be way cheaper to hire a kid out of college to go do canvassing and pay them on commission basis on how many meetings that you book.

It's going to be way cheaper than paying the $100.

So.

So not only is the price per lead more affordable.

Right.

It's also a better lead because you're not competing with anybody.

Yeah.

So you're going to be less likely your target demographic.

You know the neighborhood, you know the houses in the neighborhood.

You know exactly who you're.

Yes, yes.

You get to pick the people that are more likely to want to replace their unit.

If you're selling H Vac, you get, it's like you get to hunt your own, your own whales instead of just being out there and seeing what fish may come your way.

Okay.

So that it's, it's in that aspect of like, you're not competing with anybody.

Think of, think of, think about.

In the other hand, you're generating leads online.

They're super expensive.

And then what's the number one complaint that the marketing agencies get?

All the leads suck.

The leads are trash.

They're not even in our service area.

They are not qualified leads.

If you go out in canvas, you can literally reduce the chances that it's not going to be a qualified lead because you're targeting it.

You're just self generating.

So the best companies in home remodeling have done this for decades.

And that's why you see them like generating billions and billions of dollars.

Because they're not beholden to anybody.

They're not beholden to Google, they're not beholden to Angie.

If the market's good, they're doing self generating and the market's bad.

They're doing self generating and not only when the market's bad, they're taking more market share than anybody because they're so prepared to generate more leads than everybody.

And so while everybody else is like, oh my God, what are we going to do?

They're like, we're generating our own leads.

So the most sophisticated businesses in home services have already.

They kind of took them.

Tommy Mellow, who's a very interesting kind of character because he's kind of, he's kind of in the remodeling side, but he hangs out a lot with the home service people, which is, you know, very interesting.

So Tommy, he does, he's been doing canvassing for like, you know, almost a decade.

He's been doing canvassing and in the good times and the bad times, because he's like, I want to grow my businesses.

So now it's a tough economy.

His leads are up.

Everybody's like, all my leads are down 20%, 30%.

Yeah, because you're just waiting for leads.

Because Tommy took them all.

You're not.

Yeah.

And so, so, yeah, so.

So whether it's with canvassing or with, or with doing rehash or with doing cross selling, if you're selling multiple trades, it's so important, it's so important to, to have a strategy to generate leads for your own business.

And so when it comes to best practices, right before we talk about best practice, I don't talk about the opportunity.

We.

This is actually something we're going to be publishing in the real labs.

The.

For people who have multiple traits, you think about the homeowner.

The homeowner, when you go out and you talk to the homeowner, the homeowner doesn't think of you as like an H Vac technician or a plumber or an electrician or a garage door salesperson or a roofing salesperson.

They think of you as, as, as the, as the home improvement guy or gal.

That's.

They just think of you as like a, they have this kind of pocket in their brain that they reserve for people that come and do work in their home.

Okay?

And so a lot of the times when you go to that house to replace an H Vac unit, that homeowner is not only thinking about the H Vac unit, is thinking about a bunch of different things that they want to do with their home.

And we found that about 30% of leads, 30% of calls that are ran, there is an opportunity for a cross sell.

30%, 30% of the call.

So you go out to replace an H Vac unit, the homeowner 30% of the time is going to say something like, I'm in need for a plumbing service.

I'm in need for a, for, for an electrician, I'm in need of something else.

Because they're thinking about all these things.

Even with companies that have multiple traits, the, the technician never does anything about it.

They don't book The.

They don't book it.

It's not the department.

It's one of the things I train is like, if we see anything else related to this, this, or this is okay to bring it to your attention.

Yes, of course.

Well, then it was like, well, hey, I noticed that this is old or this is broken.

What most people do is just bundle it together.

How does that sound?

I think.

And they're like, oh, my God, you could do this.

So just to be clear, this is.

I'm not just saying that they're not doing it when they notice it.

I'm saying the homeowner says, oh, this is great.

My H Vac.

I'm also looking for a plumber.

The company has H Vac Plumbing Electrical.

In their logo it says H Vac Plumbing Electrical.

And the technician, the H Vac tech, does not do anything about that.

They do not generate the lead for the plumbing department.

That's happening at about 30% of leads.

You know why?

Because that technician, at the end of the day, they're trying to do their job.

They're trying to.

And so they're not really trying to book a leave for another department.

No matter if you have incentives or some companies, they have bonuses, they give, like their technicians, like a bonus, like, you know, like a fee for, you know, so.

So in terms of best practices, what I would say is, first of all, you need to have a really good process, a really good procedure.

And then once you have a really good process, really good procedure, just like a sales process, you should, like, for canvassing, you should have a script, you should have training, you should have managers, you should do right along.

You should have a really great process to make sure that everybody's on script.

Because, you know, you should have a.

Before that, you should have a really good qualification process, just like you would do for any lease, qualify it and see, like, what, what doors are we going to hit?

What, what, what houses are we going to hit?

And then once you have those two do two things, then you start implementing technology.

You don't start implementing technology before you have the good process and the good, you know, kind of system, because technology is only going to make whatever you have faster.

That's all.

If you have a bad process, you're going to implement technology, you're going to have a really bad process.

It's going to be faster at being.

If you have a great process.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you have a process that is a great process, you put technology into it.

So when you think about rehashing, there's technology like Chirp that you know, if you have a great rehash process that you know exactly.

You know, if a lead didn't get close that one time, you're going to have an inside sales department that's going to be able to follow up with that.

If you have a great rehash process, then you input something like Chirp that's going to automate a lot of the follow up over text or email or whatever the channel is.

If you're going to be doing something like, like, you know, like door knocking, there's like amazing tools out there like sales Rabbit or Spotio where you can, you can actually have technology to track all these processes, all these different things.

You have technologies like Rilla to track you, you know, the, the, the, the, the scripts and, and, and if they're following the scripts and why is this guy, you know, booking more leads than this other person?

Right.

So I would say best practice, start doing it, implement a really great process and then you start putting technology on it to accelerate that great process.

That's, that's kind of like high level what I would recommend.

So there's a, it makes me think of a follow up question because like we were just talking about if you do it too soon, then you know, it's recipe for disaster.

So where would you recommend?

So what do you say would need to be in place first to make this effective?

And like what is it a size of a company or is it much more about just having this handful of key elements in place as the foundation before you add the technology?

So where's that break point of what do you see with the companies that are able to implement the best for.

Rila specifically or just like say I'm.

A contracting company, so contracted companies at different size say they want to bring in a technology like Rilla.

When is the right time?

Maybe the right.

Yeah.

So we're going to be releasing literally a podcast on this on the roadmaps.

Like literally.

Talking of like literally what, what is the.

But I'll just summarize the findings.

So Rilla's a virtual ride along software, Right.

What we recommend is if you're going to do virtual ride alongs is that you have already started to do physical ride alongs.

Okay, don't come talk to me and then tell me that you're not doing ride alongs.

You should be doing ride alongs because that's very easy.

You just have to start tomorrow.

You can just do right along.

Okay.

So typically when you're going to start Thinking about this concept of doing ride alongs, physical ride alongs, like literally writing with your tax or writing with your comfort advisors, it becomes a, becomes a problem.

Or I would say it becomes very difficult to scale once you get to five technicians or five comfort advisors or five, five people in the field total.

Right.

So typically the companies who work with Rilla, they've gotten to that level of scale where it's become an annoying problem that I can't write with all of my tax all the time.

When you're starting to, when you're starting to feel that pain point, which is right around five, then you're thinking, okay, I need something like Rilla to help me scale my process.

You see, I have a process.

I do ride alongs every week with my technicians.

I have a manager, I have a scorecard, I have all these things.

You can do this without technology, by the way.

You should do this without technology.

Should be happening.

Otherwise.

Yeah, you don't measure it.

You can't manage.

Before Rilla, the top performing companies were doing ride alongs and they had a process where they sent out their managers with a scorecard.

They have a curbside pickup form where they literally rate from a 1 to 5.

What the technician did right or wrong with the comfort advisor could have done better.

And they track this and they bring us into their one on one meetings.

We've seen the most sophisticated companies that we work with.

Again, no technology pen and this is pen and paper.

They literally have.

These are like multi hundred million dollar companies in revenue.

Before Rilla, they used to have this insanely sophisticated process of doing ride alongs where they have like, whose sole job is to do ride alongs.

Not just like sales managers and service managers but, but these are coaches who are there for just training you and coaching you on how to become a better at talking and servicing people and making sales.

They have a whole rubric of how, of how they decide if they're going to go on a ride along with you.

And they basically say like we're only going to go out and ride alongs with people who have, they put a quadrant.

It's like are you, are you high, are you high attitude but low skill, right?

If you're high attitude, low skills, then we're going to, then we're going to try to increase your skills so that you, so that you become better.

If you're low attitude and high skill, they won't go out with you.

And if you're low attitude and low skill, they're, they're not going to go out with you on a ride along because you're not susceptible to coaching because you have low attitude.

And they literally have all these mechanisms to measure whether somebody has low attitude or high attitude.

Because a high attitude person is going to be super receptive to feedback.

Imagine like a young person that you hire, they're new into the trades, they just got their license and they're super hungry, they're super curious, they're super receptive to feedback.

You shouldn't just be like as you scale, you shouldn't just be doing ride alongs with everybody.

You should be doing right alongs with the people that the coaching is going to have the biggest impact on.

Right.

Which, which is not.

Usually people make the mistake that they go out on ride alongs with people who are their bottom performers.

That's not necessarily true.

You shouldn't just be doing ride alongs just and putting all of your attention on your bottom performers.

That's not necessary.

You go out with the people who you're coaching is going to have the biggest delta on and usually it's not necessarily your.

Maybe it's some of your bottom performers because they have really high attitude and if you can just coach them and train them in the right direction then they're gonna, they might become top performers.

But you know, the amount of managers who never ride with their top performers.

How much value are you losing because you're not seeing what's actually working and what's actually, you know, like what you can bring back to the team.

Think about that like as your time.

Again, going back to the concept of time.

You only have 85 billion bits of information.

What do you want to focus your attention on?

If you go on a ride along with a top performer, you're not only impact, of course you can help that top performer become better, which is actually better for the business because they're going to be generating them.

If you help your top performer become 10% better, that's going to be like, you know, millions of dollars.

Yeah, it's a much bigger piece of.

10% of a huge bigger pie is.

A lot more versus if you help somebody who's like a bottom performer increase by 50% that 10% of the top performer might probably going to generate more revenue.

But you're not only going on rides with the top performer for that.

You're going in to try to learn what is it that the top performer is doing differently than everybody else so that you can, you can impact the whole team.

What a high leverage use of your time that you're figuring out something that you can learn, you can share with the entire team.

So when you're, when you're thinking about using something like Rilla, you're typically a company that has at least five salespeople or technicians.

You're using some sort of field service management software because you have your business operations dialed in.

You have your, you have your, your businesses to a certain degree that you're already at this kind of level.

Like there's a lot of.

If you're using, if you're using pen and paper to run your business and not a CRM or a field transmission software, you should not be thinking about real, you should be thinking about something else.

You have other problems.

Yeah.

Get other stuff to run your business first.

Yes.

It's like make sure your accounting's right, your operations are right.

And once you hit that five and you start feeling that pain like, oh my God, I can't write with every tech and I'm scaling, I'm hiring people.

I don't know how I'm going to keep everybody on process.

That's when you start thinking about something like Rilla.

And, and, and if you are, if you are already doing right, people think like, oh, Rilla's for people who, who don't do.

No, no, no.

We love, we love when people do ride alongs.

We absolutely love that.

Because again, if you already have a ride along process, we're just going to let you do the exact same thing just a hundred times more.

That's it.

That's all we're going to do.

And so, yeah, so here's one more interesting question I have that might be something to study.

I don't know if you've sorted this.

If.

Can you pull out the appointments that have someone riding along with them and then listening in on what happens during a ride along appointment versus everything else.

So just curious about that.

Yeah.

So yes.

The answer is yes.

We have a lot of managers that literally record their ride alongs.

Because when you think of, when you think of the physical ride along versus the virtual ride along, the physical ride along is still super powerful because you get that face to face component.

You get to see what's going on.

Really only gives you audio, not video.

So you get to see the body language of the homeowner and the sales reps.

The physical ride along still retains a lot of its magic and its superpower.

So it's still super valuable.

Even when you have something like Rilla, when you go on a physical ride along and you record it with rela you're getting the best of both worlds because you're getting that intimacy, that face to face connection with the rep, seeing that body language, everything.

But then you get all the superpowers from the virtual ride along.

With the virtual ride along, you get a lot of superpowers.

One of them is super memory.

When you go on a physical ride along and you're not recording it, you're going to forget a lot of the things that you thought you wanted to tell the tech.

Right.

If you record it now, you can, you can use the power of time travel, go back in time, review the game film.

Just kind of exactly like coaches do when they're going out there in the field coaching that the, their, their, their players, they go back and they'd like see what you did here, see what you did.

So absolutely.

We have a lot of managers that do physical ride alongs and there's, they're recording them.

But what's the analysis that you would like us to do on those?

Because we can't pull those out.

Yeah.

So I'm curious if like, so the amount of talking that somebody, a manager or trainer is doing in the home during ride alongs and it's like a whole kind of like the analysis on the rep or the technician, a similar analysis to just study all of the different components of what happens in the house.

For somebody that's managing it and doing.

The training, that's very cool.

So basically looking at partially.

That's a little self serving.

Yeah, that's a little self serving.

How can I coach better?

Right.

But at the same time I think that would be a very helpful tool for all of the managers and trainer and coaches in the field doing the ride alongs to now get their own critiques and stuff.

That is very cool.

I just wrote that down.

Yeah.

Because we can pull those out and we could say like for these calls that how, how much is the, how much is the talk ratio for the manager versus the technician and the homeowner?

So like how much are they speaking in the conversation?

Because you would think like, you know, you want them to be like minimal and intervention.

Right.

And, and just kind of like you're not taking over completely so you, so you can actually look at the optimal range and which one of those calls has the highest close rate or, or, or not even that.

But which one?

We measure this thing called ride along efficiency.

We measure this at really it's like what was the delta before and after when that manager went out with that technician or that comfort advisor?

What was the Delta in the KPI.

So what was the close rate of the technician before?

What was the close rate after?

What was the average ticket before was the close average ticket after?

What was the opportunity job average before and after?

And then you can kind of measure, you could literally measure quantifiably like, hey, this is how much impact this ride along had on this technician.

So you can actually say, hey, for the, for the conversations where the ride along had the highest delta in terms of ride along efficiency.

Right.

What, what was the talk ratio in those?

Yeah, then stack that against this other stuff that I was just asking about.

That's cool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is so fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, man, it has been awesome.

It is, it's getting close to time to land this plane.

And for everybody listening, I go back and listen the power of time travel, like Sebastian was just saying, but there's so much that we covered in this and of course we're barely scratching the surface.

But what is, you know, as far as like last minute thoughts, something that you want to impart and leave with everybody that they can take away and implement or use or just words of wisdom you want to leave everybody with on this episode?

Yeah, so I would say like, and I think it's especially, you know, pressing for, for people listening to the Top this podcast.

When people think about getting into the trades, they know it's so clear that they have to practice and, and learn and, and, and learn the trade and learn the technical aspects of the job and use tools to, to get better at those technical aspects of the job.

If you're an H Vac tech, you're going to use a wr.

Right?

You're an electrician.

You're, you're going to use that.

I forget what the thing is called that measures the, the, the what?

The mud barometer.

I don't.

It's like a multi purpose.

Yeah, we got multimeters and volt meters.

Yeah, multimeters.

Yes, yes, yes.

So, so you, you use all these tools to do your job and you, and you spend a ridiculous amount of time learning and, and training yourself and riding with, to see how you do the technical aspect of the job.

Well, the sales component is, is, it's just as an important component of your job and it requires constant training, constant coaching, constant practicing and it requires tools.

It requires tools that are not going to help you with, with, with the physical aspect of the job.

It's going to help you with the mental aspect of the soft skills, how to talk and what to say and how you talk and what you say are actually tools that you use in your job and you should, and you should work on those.

And you should, you should work on those skills because that's going to be the biggest difference in you being an average person in the trade and a very high top performer.

It's going to be in those soft skills and how you say specific things, what you're saying to the homeowner.

This is not just people think sales is like, you know, like, it's just, it's just like you're gifted with the, with the gift of the gab and that's it.

Well, no, no, no, no.

Sales is just like any, any trade where the people who put in the most amount of time practicing, they get better the fastest and they actually become the top performers.

And that's what every single one of these top performers does, is they practice constantly, they coach themselves constantly, they review their game film.

So, so one message for everybody out there is just to treat this as the trait that it is, which is the trade of sales.

Right?

So you, you are in the trade of H vac and plumbing and electrical.

You're also in the trade of sales.

So, so treat it like the trade that it is.

So, yeah, I love it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Some that really reinforces something and thank you.

Several things that you've said is basically like say it louder for those in the back because I've been saying this on shows for a while, but this just reminds me so much of the we're talking.

So something that I've said for a long time is for, for us to be better is change your language, change your results.

Right?

And that's literally the name of one of the talks I do at different conventions around is change your language, change your results for this very purpose.

Right.

For all of these reasons, if nothing else, your relationship at home will be better if you learn to communicate better with your kids, with your everybody and your co workers, let alone being able to communicate to that your homeowners that you're working with and the people in your professional world.

And so I love this concept of, you know, bettering your language, which is of course what RILLA does.

It's analyzing language and it's huge.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elements of it.

And so, yeah, this speaks near and dear to my heart because I just love language.

And it's almost like I was using this analogy a couple days ago.

It's almost like this huge word game.

Sales is just a big word game.

Yes.

It's 90% psychology, 10% actually, like sales Skills, but it's this huge word game of figuring out people's hot buttons and all of this stuff.

And so I love having this tool that it.

You know, we start on the backs of giants.

Like Brian Tracy says, we can't live long enough to learn everything from everybody.

That's why we have books and we have tools like this to Cliff note millions of recordings and say best things, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, man, that's.

That's my message.

Practice sales like it's a trait because it is.

Love it, man.

Well, thanks for being on today.

How does everyone get a hold of you?

Well, you and or Rilla specifically, they want to learn more about what Rilla is, what it does, maybe even see a demo.

How do they get in touch with the.

With the organization?

Yeah.

So go to rilla.com, that's r I l l a dot com, and hit the book a demo button there.

And put your name, your company, your email, your phone number, and book a demo with one of our highly trained sales consultants who have been trained with Brilla.

Every single day.

I watch their calls.

I do Rilla ride alongs every single day.

It's my favorite thing to do every single day.

So go out there, book a demo.

If you want to learn a little bit more before the demo, just go over to customer stories where you can kind of see probably people in your market already using Rilla having success with it.

And if you're interested in.

If you're a technician or a comfort advisor and you're interested in just learning about all these things that we analyze for the science of sales, you could go over to Rilla.com Rilla Labs.

Rilla Labs.

To learn more about all of the reports that we put out.

Sweet.

I love it.

Okay, one last question.

Because you are obviously an avid reader.

What book are you really excited about right now or what's one of your top book recommendations?

A book I'm really excited about right now.

I can tell you what I'm reading, but it's like a super niche.

It's called magic and showmanship.

This is book written in the 1960s by this magician about how to be a showman and not just a magician, how to stand on stage and how to get attention from people and retain attention from people on a stage.

And so I'm reading that right now.

I don't know how interesting that would be for.

That's what I'm.

That is what I'm reading.

Well, that's.

That's my jam.

So I. I just Got tingles when you mentioned it.

So I will take that as a book recommendation because that sounds awesome.

Because at the end of the day, in sales, that's exactly what we're doing.

How do we keep attention?

How.

How do we get the information across so they one, it's important to them, and they re retain it and can regurgitate it back to you.

All these things.

Yeah.

And it's exactly.

This obviously sounds like some key components in this book.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a great.

Because it basically talks about the magic trick and it talks about the magic of showmanship, and it's like, how do you learn that?

It's like you could go up to, like, Steve Jobs on a stage and create this magical aura of like, holy crap, this guy's about to, like.

You know, it's not just the technology, but how you present it in my case.

Right.

So, sure.

Yeah, I'm reading that.

I love it, man.

Sounds fantastic.

Well, for everybody listening, thank you for hanging out with us today.

It has been a pleasure.

Sebastian.

I am so grateful that we got to do this and gonna virtually meet.

I'm sure we'll meet in person at some point in time.

And for everybody else that's listening, go be someone worth buying from.

You've been listening to the Close it now podcast.

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