Andrea Rappaport (00:00)

All right. So now we have a story for you in a conversation for you with someone who left a marriage where they very much felt controlled, maybe even trapped at one point. Today, our guest is Laura Richards. She's the host of That's Where I'm At podcast and her Instagram posts, you guys, are so relatable that I personally was compelled to message her to get her on this show.

And I know that you all have been waiting to hear her story because we teased it when we first started talking and then we went into all these action steps. So now we're going to get right into it. Laura, hey, welcome to How Not to Suck at Divorce.

Laura Richards (00:42)

Hello, I'm so excited to be here and talk to you guys.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (00:45)

Laura, I'm just gonna hop right in. So from the outside, what did your marriage look like?

Laura Richards (00:51)

It was great. I curated quite the facade, especially on social media. Everything was great. We were a happy family. I had three great kids. ⁓ I definitely was sucked into the, know, just make sure everybody knows you're happy. Everything's good. And I also, think, had a little bit of that delusion of if you just say it enough, it's going to happen, you know?

I think in some regard, I did have some happiness in there. I thought I was happy. I didn't know what was going on because it was covert narcissism. so I didn't know what was happening. yeah, just really, I was the curator of the facade. That was my job, self-imposed. That was my job to do that. I also was in some societal structures that.

That's just, we didn't talk about anything else. Everybody was happy and you had to be happy. And if you weren't happy, you were doing something wrong. And so that.

Andrea Rappaport (01:54)

What

do you mean? What are we talking about here? What structures? Okay.

Laura Richards (01:57)

About church, about church. Yeah, the church

environment I was in, everybody around me seemed to have like a perfect life, perfect marriage. And we weren't having those conversations. I'm having them now with friends who were not happy and were miserable and have since left their marriages. But it just wasn't something that was being done around me. And so I was, I fought with myself, like the internal, like I need to tell people what's

Happening even though it was confusing. I didn't feel good about myself, but I curated the rest on the app

Morgan L. Stogsdill (02:32)

So Laura,

you one of those people that, you we talk about this, we've talked about it on numerous episodes. Were you one of those people posting all the vacations with your kids and your family and the perfect photos? And you know, I always love the ones that you're posting your spouse and like doing these like love posts about your spouse and how fabulous they are. that, was that you?

Laura Richards (02:50)

Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Every bit of it, the vacations, the matching shirts at Christmas, you know, I mean, all the things. Yeah. All the things. I mean, I definitely wanted that because that just sounded fun to me. And I, I'm very much a Disneyland mom. Like we went to Disneyland all the time. I love that kind of thing. But it, you know, when I look back at pictures, I'm like, yeah, we were fighting. Like we were fighting in the middle of Disneyland, you know, those kinds of things.

Andrea Rappaport (03:01)

God.

I have my own memories from that time of like posting pictures on like holidays with everybody. And it would almost make me like sick to my stomach when people would comment on like, guys, you know, you guys are so cute. What a great family. I'm like, you guys have no idea. So leading into that, in your marriage, what was happening behind closed doors? What did the public not see?

Laura Richards (03:50)

Yeah, it was coercive control. was belittling. You know, I was with a covert narcissist, which I didn't know any of this until after my divorce. And so after the divorce, I started to get clarity about what had been happening because I really didn't understand. Like my husband was just difficult. He he just would tell me I just wasn't a good enough mom. I wasn't a good enough wife. And but it was very vague. Right. It was just like, if only you were better.

better at doing what? You know, like

Andrea Rappaport (04:19)

for

the actual words that he would say. I want, if you can, I want to give people the actual phrases because I think that helps them like look back in their own marriage and be like, yeah. So he would actually say to you, wow.

Laura Richards (04:22)

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. If only you

were, if only you were better. If only you were, he, the biggest thing for him was if I was less angry, then we wouldn't have so many problems. But now I know I was angry because I was being systematically abused, you know? So I didn't realize I was not encouraged. Anytime I asked for help, he would just tell me, you just need a better schedule. You're just, you're not that great a mom. It's just the way it is.

things like that and I'd be like, I don't get it. And I'd say like, why don't you say nice things to me? And he would say, if you well, for one thing, you're not a good mom, so I'm not going to tell you you are, which like, what do do with that? Right? Like, gee, thanks. And so of course, I'd have to try and prove myself even more. And then just him saying, like even in therapy, like saying that he'd go, she is a good mom. And by the time he said that at some point,

forced by the therapist, you know, it's a little too late. And where at home you're constantly being told, if only you were better, if you were a better mom, the kids would be better, things like that. So it's a constant barrage of, it's not good enough. I mean, simple things like I would cook dinner. Why not? Like cooking dinner, like we eat. So I would cook dinner and he would come home and look at it and say, I'm not gonna eat that. I'm gonna look for leftovers in the fridge.

You know, things like that, you're systematically punished over and over and over. And then he would say to me, you shouldn't care what I say to you. You should work on your self-esteem so that no matter what anyone says to you, you will be okay with yourself. And I'm like, and I'm like, and so because I had no self-esteem, I was like, yeah, he's right. I'll work on my self-esteem. So that's what I worked on. That's what I went to therapy for because I was such a terrible person.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (06:14)

That's so interesting.

Laura Richards (06:28)

That was the theme. So I went to therapy and that's where I found my voice.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (06:31)

Interesting. So that's really where you realize things were not healthy was therapy.

Laura Richards (06:36)

Well, that I was very unhappy. She never said like, there's something wrong with him because we only went to the same therapist that was my therapist wasn't usually our marriage counselor. You know, it was somebody else. And so, and that's highly recommended, but actually marriage counseling is not recommended if you think you're an abuse because there's an imbalance of power. They will use the time to manipulate you more. They'll gather information.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (06:50)

Anderson.

Laura Richards (07:03)

things like that and that's what he did. He would walk in the door and be like, I'm really worried about Laura. There's something wrong. Like she's going crazy. Well, I'm going crazy because you're gaslighting me, but I didn't know that.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (07:16)

Right. Well, and one

thing I want to say to our listeners too, is this is a very common theme that divorce lawyers see. So I'm going to give two quick stories about things that I've seen. So I have a client who's a male. Let's just call him Chad, because if you've listened to our podcast, we always use our favorite divorce couple, Chad and Brenda. So, and this is true. Chad came in, Chad has just beaten down. Chad has been in therapy the last five years with Brenda.

He has been told that he needs to work on himself. He's been working on himself for five years. Brenda's not really been doing anything. And Brenda has kind of told him, if you are better in these situations, if you give me access to our money, I feel like I don't have access to our money, then I'll come back around as your wife. And meanwhile, they're not intimately involved at all. So now Chad feels very, very rejected.

Chad just feels like nothing he can do is right, but he still is in it. He thinks that saving the marriage is gonna help him. So he's just been in this horrible cycle of really kind of an abusive relationship, but he can't see it. So I have that going on. I also have a female, let's call her Brenda, who is a high powered professional in her work life.

But at home, same thing kinda as you, Laura. She comes home, she's told she's not doing a good job as a mom. Why doesn't she take care of herself more? And I said to her, I said, how could you take care of yourself more? You go to work, you work a million hours, you come home, you're a mom, you're 100 % on. When would you have time to make it to the gym? When would you have time to make it to your doctor's appointments? And it was one of those conversations where it kind of clicked in her mind being like, you're right.

but no one has said that to her before because she's living under a roof of control. So I want to say to our listeners, if any of these stories are sounding familiar, you are not alone. And a lot of times marriages, especially from what I see, look really good from the outside. And on the inside, it's not always, you know, butterflies and roses. It's just not.

Laura Richards (09:19)

Right. And you know, and I think about Brenda's story that if you are going to the gym, now you're neglecting the kids. mean, they'll they'll find a way to spin it on you. And if you're in abuse, I mean, if you have a healthy partner, well, you're not going to be going for a divorce. But if you have a healthy partner, you you can have those conversations and say, I need this time for myself. But I didn't I didn't have that. You know, I was always being like called and texted like, when are you getting home?

Andrea Rappaport (09:36)

you

Laura Richards (09:47)

You can't take care your children. can't go out to coffee with friends. Like what's the problem? You know, so that was, that was hard. I resonate with actually both those stories. Yeah. Seriously. mean, seriously, because the, stories are so similar, aren't they? That when we get to a certain point, they're so similar, there's some disconnect somewhere. And we weren't intimate at the end either. He was just, he made a sweeping announcement that just let me know if you want to have sex.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (09:56)

You resonate with Chad and Brenda, right?

Laura Richards (10:17)

And I'm like, it was just another way. Exactly. was like, yeah. I was like, wait, are you going to get, are you just going to find me somebody? What's the deal? You know, and this is the thing is like, was such a good faithful wife. mean, I gave him fidelity for so many years and I had to fight with him about that, all of our marriage and, it just makes me crazy. Like I tell stories and my friend goes,

Andrea Rappaport (10:18)

Well, not with you.

Like with anybody?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (10:26)

Is this an invitation? What are we doing here?

Andrea Rappaport (10:29)

Did we just open this thing up?

Laura Richards (10:46)

my gosh, like you were so faithful and then he's off doing whatever he wants. And I'm like, I know, but I was trained not to say anything. That's how I was trained all my life. That's how I was trained.

Andrea Rappaport (10:57)

You're not alone in that. So many of us, ⁓ and I'll lump myself into that some, who have left marriages where there was a ton of unhealthy control. Somebody trained us. Whether we went to a school for this or not, we were trained to accept that type of treatment. And it's hard to rewire your brain. And this reminds me of something I want to mention.

Laura Richards (10:59)

Yeah.

Yes.

Andrea Rappaport (11:24)

mention really quickly before we get back to these steps of what we want you to do ⁓ if you are leaving a marriage where there's some form of abuse. There was an episode that we did ⁓ earlier this year where we talked about an acronym actually called TALK that I want to remind everybody of right now. And this is a really healthy acronym to use if you are looking at your marriage with a more critical lens. The T stands for therapy.

is your ass in therapy because it should be if you are looking at leaving your marriage. The A stands for attunement. If you don't know what attunement is, that's okay. It's emotional attention. Are you getting that type of emotional attention that you need? Meaning, is your husband or wife making you feel guilty because you're going to the gym? Or do they get that that's what you need? When you see them call you,

on your phone? Do you get a yucky feeling in your tummy? Or are you like, yay, they're checking in on me? Or do you feel like, fuck, what do they want now? The L, simple, stands for laughter. How often do you laugh together? That is a huge red flag. If you guys haven't had joy and laughter together in a while, then something is not right. The K stands for knowledge.

How much do you know about what the process will look like ahead of you if you choose to leave the marriage? So again, that's the talk acronym. I think it's really crucial to use in these situations. But going back to your story, Laura, and as we weave our legal steps through this, at what point did you first consult legal counsel?

Laura Richards (13:12)

I was going to stay forever because I was in freeze mode for sure. You know, I was very much in freeze mode. So he had come to me to say, like, if this is the way our life is going to be, you should tell me you want a divorce. And I was like, why do I have to do it? Like what? I don't understand. And that was very much his, his MO, you know, like just pass it on to me, make me the problem. And at first I thought,

Andrea Rappaport (13:37)

Yeah.

Laura Richards (13:40)

Well, maybe we can work it out. I mean, it sort of made me panic. And then I just like halfway through, couldn't even waste one more breath on him. And I said, yeah, you know what? I am done. And of course, because I call him a narcissist and he has all the traits of one, he said, well, we'll do the paperwork ourselves. Don't do that. And I have to, I have to say they all do that. Like, because I've heard that from so many women I coach.

Well, he thinks we should do the paperwork ourselves. Well, because we're in a state where it's very simple to get divorced and we didn't have grown children. I mean, we have grown children. And so, but I was like, no, I didn't understand how we're going to divide our retirement and things like that. And I have a pension that's not even paying right now. You know what mean? Like I didn't understand any of that. I'm like, how is that going to happen? And at this point, I think I had it in my head that like, I don't know if I can trust him. I didn't know what I know now, but

I was still, I was starting to get to that point where I'm like, I don't even know if I can trust him anymore because I've caught him in too many things. The last two years of our marriage were during the pandemic and I was like, I don't even like him anymore. And he doesn't like me. That's for sure. And so I didn't know if I could trust him. we, so we, I told him, no, we're not going to do our own paperwork. I'm not happy about that. He said, okay, well, let me look into it. So we actually looked into lawyers, but we actually went with a mediator.

Andrea Rappaport (14:40)

Yeah.

Laura Richards (15:05)

who was able to split everything for us and that's what we did. And it worked really well for us. But I have to say, I was still an abused woman sitting in that mediator's office, trying to get a divorce, being really quiet and meek. And I'm actually still friends with the mediator. She's very nice because contrary to popular belief inside my marriage, I was not a horrible person. I actually am a nice person. And we just became friends. Like after the mediation was over,

We were just, we just connected, you know, and she's really a kind person. So I talked to her about this and I said, you didn't know either what was going on because I didn't know what was going on to, I just sat there, you know, I think you're going to imagine it, you know, real small and meek the way I always did not saying anything going, yeah, that sounds good. Sure. That sounds good. Like, I don't think I was really.

a good participant in that. And so I really do think he hid money from me and that's not anything I can prove. And that's not anything I'm going to go after. I actually tried to talk to him about it after the fact. And of course he denied everything and there was nothing I could do. I didn't have the money to go after him for money.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (16:21)

So Laura, I want to

clarify one thing because our listeners might be in the beginning process of a divorce. It's our recommendation on this podcast that everybody has their own attorney. Every state is different. And I know you're in a different state than we're located in. But I want to let you know that where I am in Illinois and Chicago, you are not able to get divorced with only a mediator. You are not able to use one lawyer for both people. And there's a reason for that.

Laura Richards (16:44)

Okay.

Yeah.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (16:49)

is it promotes manipulation. So if you are hearing Laura's story and hearing what she's saying about manipulation and she, you know, her process was pretty nice with a mediator that she's still friends with, but she's worried that she left money on the table, that he was hiding something. And that's why it's important to have a lawyer on both sides of the divorce process. So just want to be ⁓ cognizant of that. And Laura, tell our listeners, where are you located currently?

Laura Richards (17:15)

I'm in Nevada, so you can get married the same day, can get divorced the same day. Feel free, come on down. He does not, he only does weddings. He does not do the divorce.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (17:20)

Drive through.

Andrea Rappaport (17:24)

Will Elvis also do your divorce?

Mm-hmm. Just a man of love. Just a man of... We need another celebrity from

way back when to be there at the divorces, I think.

Laura Richards (17:37)

Wouldn't that be awesome? My God. would, mean, I'm totally about that. Like I love the cheesy side of Las Vegas. So I'm, down for all of that. Next wedding, next person. I, well, I don't think I'm going to get married, but I mean, Wayne, Wayne Newton is the other, ⁓ Mr. Las Vegas. Yeah. Cause he's been here. mean, Wayne Newton's been part of the industry since he was like 16 or something. So yeah, he's still very active. You know, we have.

Andrea Rappaport (17:49)

Maybe it could be like Little Richard. I imagine like someone like, I don't know, something.

Laura Richards (18:07)

the hockey team here, we have, you know, there's a lot of celebrities in Las Vegas. So we're always having that kind of fun stuff happening in Las Vegas.

Andrea Rappaport (18:14)

Okay. I think maybe we get

Wayne on the divorces then. So we've got Elvis marrying you and then Wayne Newton singing you sayonara. ⁓ Move. So let's go back to these action steps. So Morgan, weaving in what Laura experienced, right? And what we're talking about here, something that Laura could have done and probably should have done.

Laura Richards (18:20)

Yes. Yes. That's fine.

Yes.

Andrea Rappaport (18:44)

is knowing, and again, Laura didn't know what she was dealing with. She only knows now that she was being controlled, but you guys are lucky listeners. You're gonna have a leg up in the game because the fact that you're even listening to this episode means that you know that something's not right. You have a good idea that you might be in something that's lot unhealthier than you think it is.

Laura Richards (18:58)

Yes.

Andrea Rappaport (19:13)

So with that, be mindful of things that they can hang over your head or hide from you. Just that the control doesn't end with the divorce. Know that. As much as that sucks, they're going to continue to use things until you're really and truly done.

Laura Richards (19:35)

And before Morgan speaks, can I just comment on something? I was actually this, had a revelation about this on another interview. I used to really believe like Nevada, there's no separation. Like literally we filed, we were divorced 12 hours later. So, yeah, it was, it was really, I'm telling you, come to Nevada, do whatever you want. You're gonna lose your life savings. can do whatever you want. So I used to not really be excited about separation.

Andrea Rappaport (19:51)

my God.

Mm-hmm.

Laura Richards (20:04)

because

I thought, ⁓ god, then I have to be attached to him and what if he's off doing things? But literally had a revelation during an interview. I was like, ⁓ like a six month revelation? mean, a six month separation would have given me some revelation. I would have been like, ⁓ now I see who I'm dealing with. Because I would have been separated from him. I would have started healing. around three months, I was like, I started waking up. So I do.

now see how that could actually be good. Maybe not a year, but geez, six months would be.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (20:39)

Well, it's funny you say that because one of the things that I see with my clients is, in our best divorce, maybe we, at least in Illinois, could get it done in six weeks, three months. And that's usually without kid issues, without ⁓ expansive estate, all of those kind of things. But what you see in one of our action steps was that you need to prepare yourself that it's going to get rockier before it gets better. And so it does. It gets kind of rocky at first, at least where we are.

And then what happens is you start to kind of settle in. You start to settle in and have these revelations, Laura, that you were having post-divorce. You start to get stronger. You start to understand the manipulation or control that maybe you were experiencing that you had no idea. And you kind of get your feet under you before you make these big decisions in your divorce. So that's why when you were saying, you filed for divorce and you were divorced 12 hours later, what was, I guess the question for me is because I'm like mind blown by it. ⁓

Laura Richards (21:36)

Yeah.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (21:36)

⁓ What was

the time like? How long did it take from the time you started engaging the mediator to the time you filed your divorce?

Laura Richards (21:42)

It took six weeks and only because we had to do the paperwork. So we would meet with her and she would go through the law as far as like, us all your assets. And then we would talk about how we were going to divide them and things like that. It took six weeks because frankly, I was overwhelmed and it was me. I mean, I didn't know he had a new supply waiting. So, you know, he was in a hurry. He's like, let's go. You know, I didn't know any of that. And so he was like, you just need to like.

What is your deal? Why are you dragging your feet? Again, in that same course of control that I'd always been in in my marriage and I didn't know. And so I was just like, well, I'm just overwhelmed by the whole process and I wanna make sure I'm not doing anything wrong. And when you're using a mediator, which I don't think a mediator is bad in and of itself, but I love the idea of we should have each had our own. I wish now looking back. So I've learned so much interviewing.

you know, other people about divorce was, sure didn't know. So I'm so glad you guys talk about this and that there's information out there because I sure didn't know that. And I was still, you know, I was still married. So I was still taking his word for whatever was going on. And of course, this person is going to have my best interests at heart. And they only know what they know.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (22:46)

Yeah.

Right, and one of the things we want you to know is we love mediators, or at least I love mediators. It's just using them in the right way. I think the gold standard of using a mediator for all of our listeners is for each of you to have a lawyer and then use the mediator through your lawyers. I think it saves you money, it's confidential, it's fantastic, but doing it without any legal help on the side is not a good idea. Okay, I wanna jump into one of our other action steps and see if you ran into this. I mean, I'm kinda thinking you maybe did.

Laura Richards (23:06)

Right.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (23:29)

One of our action steps was when you're in the middle or like starting this divorce, you got to think about the items that you want to obtain or protect before you kind of walk away. And the reason is because you both, Andrea and you both experienced it, the control switches. So when you're in a bad relationship or in a tricky relationship with someone who's controlling, they're controlling you.

But once you put that line in the sand and say, I'm divorcing you, the control switches because they're starting to lose the grip on you. And so the control usually pops out in other ways, at least as a divorce lawyer's perspective, I see it in them trying to ⁓ take things away, meaning like financial documents, jewelry, things that matter, heirlooms, things like that. So I always say, think about protecting the items that...

they might use as control during the divorce. Did you have any of that in your divorce process?

Laura Richards (24:24)

I didn't, he wasn't fighting me on too many things though every looking back, I'm thinking, you know, he was just like, no, I don't want you to take that whatever random thing that we had. lived, lived a pretty simple life. I think I was just, I felt like I was being fair with like, okay, well this is your stuff. This is my stuff. Like if we had personal effects or whatever, but nothing that I can think of. ⁓

At one point he did say, you know, Laura never really contributed to the household finances. And I was like, I had a full-time job. Like, what, what are you talking about? And she stopped in her tracks and just looked at him and was like, yeah, Nevada doesn't care. And so she went back to Friday and he stopped talking. So they will try to do anything. Like what, why did he say that? So that she'll give him more money or.

Somehow he's gonna get more money. So I didn't have too much of those things.

Andrea Rappaport (25:27)

Because in that moment, he was grasping for control that he felt like he was losing. He did not want things to be split evenly. And so he's like, I could just say something and then maybe somebody will grab onto it and I can get a little bit of something back. I think that commonly it's money that's hung over your head, whether it's somebody saying, go ahead, try to divorce me. You're not going to get a penny or...

Laura Richards (25:31)

Yes, exactly.

Yes.

Right.

Andrea Rappaport (25:55)

or sometimes it's money attached to the kids. It's a little bit more complex than just, want to keep this family heirloom of a teapot, no more tea for you. I think that a lot of times it's really complex, but I think our point here is be mindful, you guys. Again, what Laura went through is quite unique. Laura, like,

It sounds like in Vegas, everything's a gamble. It don't matter. You're here for a good... Yeah, roll the dice. But we don't want you to roll the dice. This needs to be thoughtful and strategic. The second action step that we really, really want you guys to keep in mind is your safety and your children's safety because what can happen a lot of times is even if the abuse that you are leaving is not

Morgan L. Stogsdill (26:27)

the delt.

Laura Richards (26:51)

Yeah.

Andrea Rappaport (26:52)

physical,

things can get really unhealthy really quickly. And I know already like Laura didn't experience, and Laura, correct me if I'm wrong, you did not have physical abuse. So, you know, in my marriage, I did not have physical abuse. And when my husband learned that I was going to leave the marriage, things got very

Laura Richards (27:04)

No.

Andrea Rappaport (27:21)

unsafe very quickly in my house. And that is something that we want you all to be prepared for in step two, which is you need to have a safety plan for you and your children. Morgan, do you want to expand on that legally what we're talking about?

Laura Richards (27:36)

Yeah.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (27:38)

Yes, so exactly what Andrea just said. I mean, I don't think that if you're in a marriage where maybe it's just controlling, you don't expect that maybe it could go from controlling to maybe way worse. And so what we're saying to you is prep for the worst and hope for the best. And if you prep for the worst and hope for the best, let's just know that you have a plan. So if the worst happens, you are prepared for it. And how do you do that?

Right? Because you might be sitting there saying, ⁓ that's great, Morgan, but how the hell am going to do that? Well, that's why you are consulting with a lawyer. And you're saying to them, right now, I'm just being controlled. Everything I do and I hear stories all the time. It's, you know, Brenda goes to the grocery store and Chad is calling Brenda saying, why did you spend fifty six dollars on groceries? And she's like, I'm feeding a family of five. What? Why are you even know where I am right now? Why are you doing this? So could be something that simple.

Laura Richards (28:28)

Great.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (28:35)

But what I want you to say to your lawyer is, this is what really has been going on. I thought it was normal, but it's not really normal. What do you see could go even worse when I say I'm leaving this marriage? And then what do I do? So that is really where you're going to put together your safety plan and plan.

Andrea Rappaport (28:53)

And the reason why you want to run this by your attorney friends is because just like how in Nevada, things are wildly different than they are here in Illinois, safety plans that are legally sound vary from state to state. So you need to make sure that you are putting a plan together that is in accordance with the law because I don't want you to screw yourself legally because you left for a night with the kids and stayed at a hotel.

Because in some states, you can't do that without taking some legal steps. Do not just go to your Facebook mom group to get this guidance. You need to rely on an attorney. OK, let's move into that third action step, which is not just physical safety, but preparing yourself mentally and emotionally for things to get harder before they get better.

Morgan, let's spell this out for everybody. And then I also have something I want to weave in there about the kids when you're done as far as what they can do to prepare for that.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (29:59)

Yeah, and on this section item, I'm going to weave in Laura's story that you just heard. So what you heard her say, and I don't know if anyone really caught it, but I'm going to just bring it back up, was she had a really fast divorce with a mediator, which was unique. But in her mind, she was saying, well, it wasn't so fast because it took six weeks, and that was because just I wasn't in a good place. So that's what we're talking about. Little things like that, you can start the process and think you're really strong, and then it hits you.

And for Laura, it hit her. It wasn't necessarily that it got really rocky in court or she was maybe worried about losing her children or anything like that, but it hit her. And that's why she believed that she was the delay. But it can get even worse than that. It can have both sides lobbying threats about what's going to happen in court. And you're not expecting that.

and you now have this spouse on the other side that you thought you knew and has turned into a complete monster. That's when you're working with your lawyer to calm yourself down and say, this really a thing? ⁓ You know that when you start the divorce process, there's going to be a lot of paperwork that you're going through a lot and then now you have to fill out paperwork and that is exhausting and we know that. Again, talk to your lawyer about this stuff because

These are things we deal with every day and we're here to walk you through this process and make you feel better about the process. So if you're feeling one way or it's getting worse for you, that's when you're talking to your lawyer.

Andrea Rappaport (31:25)

Thank

Something else that Laura said that we kind of glazed over because the term that Laura used might not be a term that you all know, Laura referred to somebody as her ex-husband's new supply. And supply, when we're talking about people with high conflict personality disorders, is somebody who's feeding you. ⁓ What that means in layman's terms is her husband had another girl.

and there was another woman there. And that's something that Laura did not know immediately. And that's something that's really important that you guys understand is that there could be realizations that come to you that are going to throw you and that are going to make you want to scream and vomit in a car while you are sitting in a target parking lot. And that's okay. You're not going to scream and cry forever. ⁓

You will navigate through this, but we want you to have a team in place to support you for when those what the fuck moments happen. You want a community. We want you to be a part of our online community. Laura also has a community that we're going to talk about in a minute. We want you to listen to this podcast. We want you to have a therapist. We want you to use our Divorce Crash Course and all of the guides. This is exactly why we do this show.

Laura Richards (32:39)

Yes.

Andrea Rappaport (32:58)

and why we have these things available because I didn't. And I suffered a great deal during my divorce. mean, Laura, let's go back to that moment for a minute. When you first found out that there was somebody else, I mean, did you cry? Did you throw up? Like, what did you do?

Laura Richards (33:02)

Yeah.

you

The first thing out of my mouth was, ⁓ I wasn't crazy. And then I was very dysregulated. I felt re-victimized by everything. it was a beautiful mind and all the pieces were coming together. And I was like, he's been lying to me. And I didn't sleep for three days. I just ruminated over my life what he had just done in the divorce, everything that just went on.

and it was really overwhelming. I was very dysregulated and I understood how women snap, but we don't go to jail for anybody. So, no, they are not, but I was like, I mean, I had friends, if you know the term, like take off your earrings. I had friends who were like, who, what? Because I'm like, all my friends are from church, but they weren't always in church.

Andrea Rappaport (33:56)

They're not worth it. Even in Vegas.

Yeah.

I love that.

They were in the streets before they were in the pubes.

Laura Richards (34:15)

They were in the streets

before and they were like, where are we going? You know, and I'm like, no, she's like, she's not worth our time. it's.

Andrea Rappaport (34:19)

I love it. We

Morgan L. Stogsdill (34:22)

Well, and

Andrea Rappaport (34:22)

ride at dawn.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (34:22)

now that's right. They write it on, but now you probably all look back after that rocky period and are like, thank God she came into his life because it let me loose and God speed.

Laura Richards (34:24)

Yes.

Well, that's

just it. That's it. it's look as heartbreaking as that sounds. And this is the part that was really hard where I went because I did, I wasn't fully, ⁓ in my healing journey yet because I was healing from a divorce and reconcilable differences. that's a different healing process. And you just found out that your ex has been lying to you for 33 years and he has someone new. Look, he always had someone.

Andrea Rappaport (34:56)

Yeah.

Laura Richards (35:01)

But you know what now she was really in front of my face That's a different healing and so that revictimization that's why I talk about it because you're going through a different process and people don't always Understand that and that's why we have to talk about it Why it's so good like when you guys were saying something about the why are you at the grocery store thing? He did that to me and I just had that revelation. Well, you guys are talking about Mike after we said we're getting a divorce he said

⁓ Why are you spending money? What do mean why am I spending money? Like life requires money. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't out like shopping or something. I was just buying life, buying groceries and things like that. But he already in his mind, we were done. In his mind, we were done.

Andrea Rappaport (35:52)

You bring up a really good point, and I want to say something briefly about money in regards to kids. This shit is going to come up. Why are you spending so much money on back to school clothes for the kids? Why are you signing Johnny up for soccer? We didn't agree to this. Well, what do you mean Allison's taking ballet again? She's never taken ballet. Okay, motherfucker, Allison's taken ballet for the last 10 years of her life. Guys, this is why we partner with our family wizard.

because our family wizard keeps all of this stuff straight for you. You need, when you are going through an abusive, when you're leaving, let me rephrase, when you're leaving an abusive marriage, your divorce is also going to be abusive. You want to have all of the tools and team members in place to help you get through this so that you don't want to pull out your hair extensions, because those are also expensive.

Our family wizard will keep the calendar straight, keeps the expenses straight so that your ex can't say, so-and-so never did this before. No, they did. And here it is. It's all uploaded into our family wizard. Our family wizard is also court monitored. So your soon to be ex can't pretend like he or she didn't see the message about, you know, I need reimbursement for this or so-and-so needs to get picked up from this.

You can use this platform from the time that you are separated through years after your divorce when things actually go back to quote unquote the new normal. Celebrities use this platform. We love this platform. It is by far the safest one to use and the most judge approved. So we love it. And also right now,

We're very lucky that they offer our listeners 20 % off their first year. So if you go to the link, if you go to ourfamilywizard.com slash not suck, you can get 20 % off. Go there, go check out everything about Our Family Wizard.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (37:57)

That's right. And it's the gold standard for divorce lawyers. look at it all the time in these cases and actually use it as evidence in court to hammer people when they're just blatantly lying.

All right, Laura, I want to bring it back to you and wrap up on something positive. I'm going to lob a question at you with your story. Give me the takeaways. All right, let's just say you're about to give a TED talk. What's your main takeaway? What do want everyone to know about what you've gone through?

Laura Richards (38:25)

that you're gonna be doing a lot of this afraid and that's okay and that your healing isn't about getting back to who you were before the abuse. It's about becoming a new and better version of yourself who could never be broken like that again.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (38:41)

I love that. feel like, I know, I mean, we've had, I feel like a million guests on here and you just like wrapped it up beautifully in a box and I want to open that box over and over again. So thank you, Laura. Wow.

Andrea Rappaport (38:42)

It's not. we said that at the same time!

Laura Richards (38:56)

Thank

you.

Andrea Rappaport (38:57)

Now I know why Laura has her own podcast. So tell us about That's Where I'm At. And I love the title too. Like, that's where I'm at. So that's how I say it. In my brain, I'm like, that's where I'm at.

Laura Richards (38:59)

you

Thank you. That's exactly how it happened. Yeah. No, that's exactly

right. You know, I was doing some coaching with a friend. I was dreaming for the future and I told her, said, I don't even know what I mean by that, but I want to dream. And we would catch up because we were friends. And before we started our formal coaching, you know, we would kind of catch up and I'd be like, so that's where I'm at.

And then one day I stopped and I was like, wait, is that something? And so like, I just recommend for everybody, like just write those down. Like you don't know what it is. Like the universal piece of together for you later, like just write it down. And it just became the mantra of we do not have to be all the way through our healing journey. What does that even mean? We're always going to be, we're always learning and growing. So I talked to women, what I call still in the middle of the mess. They talk about

their journey and it's really become the narcissist show, but I do have other stories of child abuse and ⁓ grief, know, grief and loss. And I have some beautiful guests who really share their story and how they've healed after their own, ⁓ you know, traumatic events.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (40:14)

I also feel like that's where I'm at could be a perfect response to anything anyone asks you in a deform. Well, that's where I'm at. ⁓ case closed.

Laura Richards (40:19)

Yes. Yes.

Right.

Andrea Rappaport (40:24)

You know

what Morgan, I want you to use that tomorrow, tomorrow in court. I want you to see if you can weave in and that's where I'm at.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (40:32)

I'm going to actually end on it. I'm going to do my whole dog and pony show and then just be like, well, that's where I'm at, Your Honor.

Laura Richards (40:36)

That's where I'm at. mean,

it really is because I just I lived, I don't know, I just always thought about like when people are telling their story, you know, you hear these stories and like they have this big, you know, transformation. I'm like, what about us who are still in the middle of a mess, but I have value in my story right now. I can help the person behind me who's just starting their journey. And the person who's further ahead of me can help me.

And so I think we are all in a good place to help each other.

Andrea Rappaport (41:06)

I love that and this is what I want to end on. Fuck those people who show up online like, my God, you guys, I like went through this storm and it was so, it was like awful and done, but now I just live in a world of rainbows and it's so great and you need to be like me. my God, get off your fucking high horse. No, you're not. Just be who you just be. There's no end. There's no place like, yes, your life will get better.

Laura Richards (41:32)

now.

Andrea Rappaport (41:35)

but we are constantly evolving. Just because Morgan hasn't gone through a divorce herself, that doesn't mean that Morgan's life is yay, and Andrea's life is nay, because she had this thing, and so now Andrea's forever damaged unless she gets this enlightened moment where then she gets to the other side where everything's gone. No, we all have stuff.

We all are always changing and adapting, pivoting, learning, and it's okay to be in the mess, because guess what? On some level, we're all in some kind of a mess. We're just too afraid to show it, because going back to the beginning of your story, we are so conditioned to only show the pretty and the good and the hashtag blessed, and we need to stop.

Laura Richards (42:18)

Yeah.

really?

And that's why you have to be careful after the divorce. Don't go look at their social media. You know, I recommend blocking your ex everywhere because they are going to go on in some way that's going to hurt you. That's going to feel really, you know, just even if they just take the kids to Disneyland without you, that's somehow you might have that hurt. Just you have to block them, especially if you do figure out that you were in abuse, things like that.

Andrea Rappaport (42:37)

Yeah.

Laura Richards (42:51)

I had to block him on everything. could, what is he gonna do? He's not gonna post her and not say things that are gonna be hurtful to you. He will be sure to say things that are hurtful. This is the love of my life. I've never been happier. Do you wanna see that? No, nobody wants to see that. Even if it's not true, you don't wanna see that.

Andrea Rappaport (42:57)

right?

No, you don't.

Well, Laura, we love you. We would never block you. So thank you so much for spending time with us today, being here. You guys, we're going to put direct links to everywhere you can find Laura in the show notes, because I want you to go check out her podcast and everything else that Laura has to offer, because there's a lot. Thank you, Laura. Everything that you brought us today was just incredible.

Laura Richards (43:30)

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it. And you guys are doing great work.