Wendy Green [00:00:16]:

Hello and welcome to Boomer Banter, where we have real talk about aging well. My name is Wendy Green, and I am your host. And with over 15 years of experience with aging well and plenty more to come, I'm here to tackle all the uncomfortable, unexpected, and hopefully life affirming questions you've been pondering to help make the journey a little less rocky and a lot more fun. So if you want to age well, you are in the right place. I just want to catch you up a little bit because, boy, does life happen when you least expect it. Like I said, the uncomfortable, the unexpected. So a week ago Friday, the weekend started like normal. I would always go over to my mom's house where she and Don, her husband, would greet me for wine time.

Wendy Green [00:01:18]:

Don loved to sit down with a glass or two of wine and we would just chat about the day's events, about what we were thinking about, about what they had read, who they had met, and they looked forward to this time. And I looked forward to this time. And then Saturday, we started with a brunch with my siblings and some of his children. And it was to celebrate my upcoming birthday and their upcoming 6th wedding anniversary. They're 94 and yes, for sure, six years of marriage. And Sunday, they got up early like they always did. And they made chicken soup. Don loved to make soup.

Wendy Green [00:02:04]:

And mom would be his sous chef and chop up the vegetables. So they made chicken soup. They laid down for a nap. And then dawn got up first. And when she got up, she found him on the floor in the kitchen. And we don't know why he fell, but he developed a brain bleed. And yesterday, Sunday, Don passed away. He was surrounded by his family, had six children, lots of grandkids.

Wendy Green [00:02:39]:

And so it was a peaceful passing for him. Meanwhile, my mother started feeling bad. On Friday, we sat in Don's room with him. My siblings joined us. And Friday, she started feeling bad. And we ended up in the hospital Friday afternoon. And she is now there with COVID And I have found out in the last day or so, both my brother and my sister also have Covid. So, you know, we go from this Friday night wine time thinking everything's fine too suddenly.

Wendy Green [00:03:23]:

Wow. What do we do now? And this plays in very well on fortunately, unfortunately, I mean, I don't even know, right? Because I'm a little bit discombobulated right now, as you can imagine. But our episode today is about navigating this healthcare maze and what comes next. And my guest, Nancy Ruthner, is a board certified patient advocate and aging strategist Nancy earned a bachelor's degree in social work from Western Carolina University and a graduate certificate in counselor education at NC State University. It was 2013 when Nancy founded her patient advocacy agency named Navigatenc, offering services surrounding healthcare, navigation, elder care, and living with chronic conditions. In its eleven years, the company emerged as a market leader for patient advocacy services in the southeast, with Nancy as a working supervisor and rising as a national speaker and thought leader on solo aging. Today, Nancy is a sought after consultant for her expertise in aging and patient advocacy. She presents frequently at conferences and events on topics involving planning for successful aging, solo aging, and navigating our complex healthcare system.

Wendy Green [00:05:02]:

So it is my honor and joy to bring Nancy on to meet all of you. Hello Nancy.

Nancy Ruffner [00:05:11]:

Good afternoon.

Wendy Green [00:05:13]:

I am so glad to have you on, especially at this time. We have so much to talk about. I know, and that has not been a problem for us in the past, so I think we'll do fine. So just give me a little background. You went from social work to counseling to elder care to soul arranging. What's the journey you've traveled?

Nancy Ruffner [00:05:41]:

I have a wacky path. I spent a lot of years trying to figure out how to use this strange mix of sales and social work that I developed. I went from after my undergrad wearing a cape, entering social work, going to solve the problems of the world and probably burn out in about three and a half years. And that was because I was not well prepared to compartmentalize work and balance work and life. From then, I had a number of things in my career that I think has a common thread of sales and social work. I did inside sales. I worked for state government, I worked for publicly traded companies. I worked for manufacturing supervision and production inspector one.

Nancy Ruffner [00:06:39]:

I was at Linux China for a while. And all the while, whenever I was working in business, I was always missing providing a service. And whenever I was just social work, I was always missing the business and the dynamics of that. And so I came very close when I entered the EAP Realm employee assistance program Realm, where I was able to begin to use some of that sales and social work. I was doing intakes in elder care and legal and financial, and then placing those cases nationwide. When my parents began to age and change and until they passed, people were saying, you know, you should hang out your shingle. And so finally I did hang out my shingle. And in 2013, that's when I started my patient advocacy agency.

Nancy Ruffner [00:07:34]:

It was just me. And then it got bigger.

Wendy Green [00:07:38]:

Well, that's what we want when we start a business, right? We want it to get bigger and better. So, Boomer, banter. I think of four things that make up aging well. Okay. I think about financial literacy. I think about health. I think about relationships and how important social connections are. And then I think about purpose.

Wendy Green [00:08:02]:

And so I'm curious how patient advocacy might fit into those four buckets or even one of them or any of them.

Nancy Ruffner [00:08:14]:

The work that I do as a patient advocate touches all of them, and they are all those are necessary legs to the chair, if you will. I love the fact that you've tailored those categories with respect to health, wellness, medical. Obviously, that's where a lot of patient advocates will start out. We're very medically oriented. But that soon spills over into, gosh, how am I going to pay for care? How am I going to finance my aging all the way out? Then you mentioned social support. Community is key. I can't say that put enough focus on that for all the benefits of it and to avoid all the.

Wendy Green [00:09:06]:

The loneliness.

Nancy Ruffner [00:09:09]:

Loneliness and isolation that we know can easily be part of the picture. You know, the pandemic sure taught us that. It rubbed our noses in it. And then, you know, with purpose. Got to have that reason to get up out of bed in the morning. I got to be needed. You know, I have needs, but I need. One of my needs is to be needed, right.

Nancy Ruffner [00:09:32]:

And I'm somebody who wants to, you know, contribute and to put in long before I take out, you know, there's got to be that reason. And, you know, I'm put here for a reason. And so I have, I'm proud to tell you that I found my weird mix of sales and social work because now I have to sell not only the very little known industry of patient advocacy. We're changing. I have to sell myself my ability to do for you as a provider, and then I have to sell services, need to engage our services, and so have all of that. Happy to tell you.

Wendy Green [00:10:17]:

Well, you know, it is an interesting and relatively new profession. I told you when I first met you, I had never heard of patient advocacy, and I wouldn't know even how to go about saying I need a patient advocate until I met you. So, I mean, here I was thrown into the middle of all of this trauma this past week, and, you know, when would I have looked up enough to say, oh, gosh, I really need some help? I think it's more now. But when do people realize they need help, Nancy? Or maybe they don't. You help them. I don't know. I don't even know what the question is. There.

Nancy Ruffner [00:10:58]:

Well, you touched on it, actually. People generally come to the realization when there is change and fast change, and they're either, but they either find themselves prepared or somewhat oriented or they find themselves fish out of water and ruh row. And I don't know what to do because you don't have any points of reference when things start changing. A lot of us have no experience with what is now being thrust upon us. And so the role of the patient advocate. Well, you mentioned it's a rather new profession. It only came around in 2009, and we were born out of the need for, to support folks who are encountering change. So a lot of times people will ask me, what's the difference between there's a hospital patient advocate and then you.

Nancy Ruffner [00:11:58]:

And so let me just say that there are patient advocates, that they may be the ones you hear of first patient advocates in the hospital, and they do good work and they can shine a light on and they can get some stuff done and get you some answers. But when you're discharged from the hospital, they stay there and you go where. And so patient advocates who work independently are there to journey with. We go from home to hospital to rehab to home. So I can't go back to that home. So I got to find a new home. So we're going with shining a light on the path, providing the education, because that's how people make good decisions. You know, you make the best decisions with the most information, and we're not to choose for you.

Nancy Ruffner [00:12:48]:

We're to give you the information that you need to make the decisions that are best for you.

Wendy Green [00:12:54]:

Yeah. So, so you mentioned in one of your pieces that I read that you and your sister felt like you were so prepared when your parents were sick. And, you know, I have felt prepared with my mom, but now we have this blended family thing going on, and I don't know what. So let's start with how did you and your sister feel prepared and realized you weren't well, let's see.

Nancy Ruffner [00:13:24]:

I had the social work background. I was seated in the EAP, and I was performing the function of elder care intakes and finding solution for people. And same with legal and financial. And so, and I had at my disposal attorneys and financial professionals and lots of resources that I could apply. And so I felt, oh, look, I've amassed all this at my fingertips. My sister at the time was the program support for the alms Budsman. She was the voice that you heard when you called the 800 number and the clearinghouse of information. And so you can see where we thought, now, this is gonna be okay when it happens.

Nancy Ruffner [00:14:10]:

We got it. Not at all. And I know that you will join me now in saying, it's just different when you're in it.

Wendy Green [00:14:19]:

It is different when you're in it. And I think the emotions cloud you're.

Nancy Ruffner [00:14:23]:

Indeed. You're exactly right. And, you know, stuff comes, oh, man, that old baggage comes in. Next thing you know, somebody's talking about what I did or didn't do for dad on father's day, you know, when I was 48 and I was 60 at the time, and so I was like, oh, that.

Wendy Green [00:14:46]:

And everything comes in rivalry, too, right?

Nancy Ruffner [00:14:51]:

Came in. All of it comes in, and you can either pay it attention or not to, or not, you know, don't. But I would say we worked together for the, you know, for the. As a team, for the betterment of our parents. We were certainly able to do that. We did need outside help. I was not able. It was almost like I had to recuse myself from the case.

Nancy Ruffner [00:15:19]:

I was not yet in my patient advocacy practice, but I needed to. We needed outside intervention for assessment, and then a good friend in the industry took us aside and just gave us gentle advice, like, stop paying attention to that over there. We don't need to deal with that right now. Bring yourself over here and look at this thing, because this is what's coming at you next. Here's what you're going to need to know and to help us prioritize, refocus, stop from going off the rails. It was very helpful to have an outside person. And so two things there I resolved that I wanted to be that kind of person that could have that positive impact. And the other is just a basic little, I want to help people avoid that awful feeling, that awful, that anxiety.

Nancy Ruffner [00:16:15]:

I don't know what to do. That angst, that oomph. If I can prevent somebody from holding so much of that, that is absolutely.

Wendy Green [00:16:25]:

My mission and much needed, you know, because I know, just going through this past week, you know, I was trying to sit down several times and make a list. Okay, what are the things I need to find out about? What do I need to ask my mother about? What do I need to ask the continuing care people about? What do I need to ask insurance? What about pensions? What about this? What about that? And it just all got bigger and bigger and bigger. It's like the snowball rolling down the hill, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I don't even know where to start.

Nancy Ruffner [00:16:56]:

So, yeah, it can be overwhelming. It can be overwhelming. But you know what I'm hearing from you? Cause I always see the good, and we need to stop, celebrate the positive of the win. I heard somebody that was thinking and making lists, and while that list became long and while that list seemed overwhelming, then go through that list again and see, well, what is first, what's at us right here, what could be later, what can we delegate? How can we split this off? You know, can brother look into veterans benefits and bring that back to the table to the committee, if you will? Can somebody else see about mom and or now when mom's coming home, you got another thing to plan. How can that be divided up? And what do we need to know in order to, for the next leg of the. I often call it a lock and dam journey, like a Panama canal. Your next little lock is filling up right now. And then you're.

Nancy Ruffner [00:17:59]:

Which is good because you'll be able to see better from there and get the information you need while it's, while the lock is filling, and then you'll be ready to go advance into the next one. So.

Wendy Green [00:18:09]:

But here's the reality, right? And we were talking about this before it came on the air. Like you, you think, okay, God planned, I'm working on this now. And then all of a sudden, boom. In a split second, another phone call comes in, another, another sibling drops with COVID You know, it's like, okay, I'll shift now. And it's constantly this shifting landscape, and it's really hard to find your balance.

Nancy Ruffner [00:18:40]:

Absolutely. And I commend you for bringing that up because that's where a lot of people are, even as we speak or they've been there and they're relating to what we're saying. We can make plans and we can make plan b plans, but we are in a shifting landscape and we are dealing with humans who are moving targets, too. It's actually an interesting kaleidoscope when you think about it.

Wendy Green [00:19:09]:

Yes, it is. So, talking about families, Nancy, I mean, navigating families can be difficult. You know, you have all these comedy shows about Christmas vacations. Right. Navigating families. But it's also nice to know that you have your family or you have somebody there with you if you should get sick or need help. But as a solo ager, which in reality, if we live long enough, all of us will be solo agers at some point. Nobody living with us.

Wendy Green [00:19:43]:

What are the extra things that we need to think about?

Nancy Ruffner [00:19:47]:

Thank you for bringing that up. Solo aging is an area of specialty for me. I am a solo ager. And it, too, is another hidden in plain sight, just now being discovered portion of our aging demographic, people who are aging alone without the benefit of built in family as caregivers. And so we have challenge. We have the same challenges. We just need to build it different beam, something that I call a micro board, people that are going to help us with respect to our medical needs, not only understanding them and getting medical attention and having support to get to medical care, but making the decisions when we're able and when we're planning for when we're not gonna be able. And so that's huge.

Nancy Ruffner [00:20:42]:

And I'm feeling like, and that's where the patient advocacy part often starts out. There's medical change, but there's, it builds. This is, every aging thing spills quickly from medical. And there's legal. Oh, I don't have my legal ducks in a row, or I do, but I made those legal documents three grandchildren ago, and they've got some age on them. But solo agents need to build a different team, you know, in terms of our support, in terms of finding our community, our friends, and, in effect, choosing our own family.

Wendy Green [00:21:25]:

Yeah. Because who are you going to call if you fall?

Nancy Ruffner [00:21:30]:

That's true. And we all should have a 03:00 a.m. person. Everybody. Everybody listening to this. Who's your 03:00 a.m. person? Better identify one or two.

Wendy Green [00:21:41]:

Yeah. Yeah. So insurance, everybody's most hated subject. We get insurance bills all the time. In fact, somebody was telling me the other day about, you know, they have it, proof that they've paid it, and yet the insurance company keeps coming back and saying, no, you haven't paid it. So they send the check again, or they send whatever, you know, yes, we've paid it. No, you haven't paid it. And when you're in the midst of some kind of crisis or something, the last thing you want to do is navigate the insurance.

Wendy Green [00:22:19]:

How do you help with that?

Nancy Ruffner [00:22:22]:

Another good topic brought forward. Insurance is so daunting. And like you said, the claims and the explanation of benefits and the demands for payment come up right about the time that everything else is running amok as well. And so we are debilitated. And sometimes we just pay them or pay them twice or don't understand them or put our head back down in the sand just for a little while. Isn't it good to know that a large portion of patient advocates are specialists in medical billing, insurance disputes and appeals? There are lots of patient advocates who do nothing more than that. They love it. They love to solve a problem.

Nancy Ruffner [00:23:07]:

They understand coding. They know how to get past the gatekeepers to the decision makers. These are people you need to know about, and they are among the patient advocates.

Wendy Green [00:23:18]:

Wow. Well, how do you find people like you or the people with the specialty that you need at that moment?

Nancy Ruffner [00:23:25]:

Well, we're getting better at being googled. You can often. We've gotten to the point nowadays where you can often google your state plus patient advocate. And some of that will come up. We've got some search by zip code directories within our professional organizations. A good one that I'll give to your listeners right now is greater national advocates, and it's gnanow.org. and when you sign in to gnana now.org, you will be delivered to not only patient advocacy information, but some easy ways to find us. You can search by state or the kind of need you may have.

Nancy Ruffner [00:24:17]:

And so that's a good one. There are also other directories within organizations like, and I'll spell it out, NAC. NAHAC, which stands for National association of Healthcare Advocacy Consultants. NAC two has a directory that's prominently displayed on NAHAc.com, and you can begin to look. There is also health advocate X. Health advocate X. And then another group called Umbra. U M B R A.

Nancy Ruffner [00:24:59]:

Umbra is another professional association for advocates and one called Solace. S o l a c e. Solace. All with directories to find us.

Wendy Green [00:25:14]:

We'll put all that in your show notes, too.

Nancy Ruffner [00:25:17]:

Much appreciated.

Wendy Green [00:25:19]:

Okay. I was thinking about the mom. Bring it back to personal. So she's very independent. She really values her independence and that she can take care of herself. And, you know, all of that's very important to her. She also doesn't drive anymore, and she lives in a home, a single family home. When you talk to your siblings and you say, well, you know, maybe mom's not safe there anymore.

Wendy Green [00:25:58]:

And one of them says, no, she's fine. And the other one says, I don't know. And, you know, talk to mom, which I do think we have to be very careful about valuing our parents opinion. As long as they're able to give their opinion, we can't just take over. Right. But do you ever meet with families and help them have those discussions about what's best for mom, including mom?

Nancy Ruffner [00:26:25]:

Yes. We all patient advocates do just that. A lot of that. And it's conversations with an s. These kind of conversations need to occur before, during, after. A lot of times, people need to know where they stand, but sometimes it's a little easier when it's pointed out by a third party professional. A lot of times the doctor or an attorney gets called into that same function. But since we're kind of holistic about it all, it's easy for us to assess and tell you what we see and make professional recommendations.

Nancy Ruffner [00:27:06]:

You take them if you want, take what you need and leave the rest. But as we see it, and people will consult with me. And for two reasons, I have seen and done a lot, and I bring to the party my experience as well as what I call the 500 families that I've helped before. I had a lot of stories of things that worked and didn't work or approaches to conversations, but I'm going to have one of those meetings at 04:00 today. Approaches to conversations and facing reticence, gaining buy in. They're tender, touchy, tricky, and, you know, I use my social work and counselor education every day.

Wendy Green [00:27:57]:

Yeah. And, you know, and it's interesting how you write. You need a third person because you try to bring yourself into it, even if you're a coach or a counselor or whatever. But you have all that baggage history with the siblings or with your mom and dad. You know, sometimes that's the way the baggage is, too. Yes. And those conversations can be tough.

Nancy Ruffner [00:28:21]:

I completely understand. My sister and I went through the same thing to the point where we became estranged. She was all about, okay, our parents were losing capacity. And one point of view was, it's dad. It's his dignity. He determines. And then the other opinion was, this is a care decision. This is not personal.

Nancy Ruffner [00:28:47]:

This is a care decision. And so we all wanted what was best for our parent. We just had different ways of getting there. And so we were able to combine our efforts. What is it? Check your emotions at the door and come in here and do some team work on behalf of your loved one who needs you now?

Wendy Green [00:29:12]:

Well, that's it, right? You got to refocus. It's not about you and your ego or your needs. It's about them and what they need. Yeah. Hard. So your specialty now is solo aging, right?

Nancy Ruffner [00:29:28]:

Yes, it is. I do most of my work. Well, everything aging, but a lot with solo agers because I get asked to speak at conferences on solo aging and building your team and combining your independence with interdependence so you don't lose your. So you don't become dependent. I do a lot of lecturing on interdependence.

Wendy Green [00:29:56]:

Yeah, yeah. Tell me about that. Because, you know, those of us women that live by ourselves, we always were like, no, I'm strong. I got this. And your family starts to look at you that way, too, you know, like, that's true.

Nancy Ruffner [00:30:08]:

They expect you to be that way, so they back off.

Wendy Green [00:30:10]:

That's right. And then you're like, wait, I need somebody to hug me right now.

Nancy Ruffner [00:30:15]:

That could be true. And I have been on some webinars and told my stories about making too much, too much, too many independent situations in my decision to move to a state where I knew no one and to do it all myself, right down to loading the u Haul and driving the thing down here and looking back, I would have done some things differently, but then also having to have surgery upon arrival and to coordinate all of that, which I thought, I'm a patient advocate. I could do that myself. I still needed help. I needed support. I needed help and recuperation. And so I learned my life lessons in 2022 and 2023, um, that, you know, there is such thing as too much dependence, and you need interdependence. You know, you still keep your independence while you're inside.

Nancy Ruffner [00:31:15]:

Interdependence doesn't go away. Still me still calling the shots. Just got some help.

Wendy Green [00:31:22]:

Yeah. Right. And being able to ask for help, it's so important. Yes. And, in fact, um, a few of my listeners are talking about what they saw happen with their parents or their in laws, and, you know, they don't want that for themselves and trying to be more prepared. And so do you recommend, like, having a patient advocate on speed uphill?

Nancy Ruffner [00:31:52]:

You know, it wouldn't hurt to identify us or one in the. Maybe in the proximity where your loved one is, where your concerns are. People all the time are calling me. You know, I need somebody in Iowa. I need somebody in Chicago. How do I. How do I. And I'm teaching them how to find them, or I'm helping to assess their needs, and then we'll go find that team.

Nancy Ruffner [00:32:14]:

I can and have managed cases when I was with my agency in other states. Now I am specializing in just the triage jump, the assessment of what's going on and making recommendations and teaching people how to find us no matter where they are in the United States, Canada, and parts of Europe.

Wendy Green [00:32:37]:

Wow. So a patient advocate is not just helping you with medical decisions. There's so much more that y'all can do. You talked about insurance.

Nancy Ruffner [00:32:47]:

Yep. Financial, you know, the. What I call the caregiving pocketbook. How are we going to pay for care? Then there's insurance, which we touched on. What's covered, what's not. How do I launch a claim. A lot of myth and mystery around long term care insurance. So educating on that housing is huge, because if you're changing, then your housing is probably going to change at some point when we have greater care needs, all of it.

Nancy Ruffner [00:33:21]:

I'm not in my forever place. I made careful decisions to come to this place that suits me now, but I will know. I had a flight of stairs.

Wendy Green [00:33:31]:

Yeah.

Nancy Ruffner [00:33:32]:

Yeah.

Wendy Green [00:33:32]:

Forever.

Nancy Ruffner [00:33:33]:

That will not last forever. And I need to see it and know it and plan for it. You know, I see it. And of course, that could all change on a dime tomorrow.

Wendy Green [00:33:43]:

Certainly can change on a dime. And we. Yeah. Um. How do people pay for patient advocate? Is it covered by any kind of insurance?

Nancy Ruffner [00:33:52]:

It is not covered by insurance. So it's, it's private pay or fee for service. And, and hear me when I say that's a good thing, because if I'm paid by insurance, your insurance company, then I can only say or teach about the things your insurance company wants me to teach about. Patient advocate can. Our voices are not squelched. Our advocacy on your behalf is not squelched. I'm not going to recommend the least costly thing for the insurance company. I'm going to recommend the best thing.

Nancy Ruffner [00:34:32]:

Let's look into the best thing or how to find funding for that which they're denying right now. You know, we're beholden to the patient that we're working with. Not hospitals, not insurance, not medical groups. We work for the patient.

Wendy Green [00:34:49]:

That is big. I had somebody on, I don't know, a few weeks ago, and they were talking about, they didn't actually say it on the show, but they said the company that they work with, they have to be careful about only saying what that company allows them to say.

Nancy Ruffner [00:35:05]:

Right. And that's a, that can be a problem if you're trying to work for your best outcome or find workarounds. So don't squelch my voice. I'm going to bring it to the patient. Everything you need to know, and here's how you do it.

Wendy Green [00:35:22]:

So tell me about some of your most successful work with clients. A couple of stories that we can say. Oh, gosh, yeah, that was great.

Nancy Ruffner [00:35:33]:

Well, the bell ringer comes to mind. I was working with a gentleman, actually, the gentleman's housing community contacted me. He was in independent living, and that is all that that community offered was independent living. He was a Parkinson's patient. He was beginning to change mobility issues, some cognitive issues, some freezing. He was estranged from his overwhelmed daughter, who herself had a special needs child, and she said, and a husband I'd like to keep and the job from Hades all at one time. And so she didn't do much for dad and I don't think she knew how to do much for dad. And so when we got into this particular patient, he was really not appropriate for independent living anymore.

Nancy Ruffner [00:36:26]:

But I, this particular community had those add on services, on site home care and could bring in therapies. And so we kept him. We stabilized him and got him steady Eddie there in his independent living community and got him further snapped in with neurology, medication evaluation so that he could be his, live his optimal life relative to the Parkinson's, but that he was going to change. At one point, he had the dementia that sometimes comes in with Parkinson's and hallucinations, and he knew it, which is interesting. It's an interesting thing to deal with. But the bell ringer part of it was we managed all kinds of care and therapies and transportation and neuro psych encounters for him. And we brought his daughter in and I told her, I said to her, you are the, you're the understudy. You're learning your lines.

Nancy Ruffner [00:37:33]:

You're learning where to stand on stage. I'll be doing the acting part, but your day's coming that you're going on stage. And one day when they had sent that out, he had fallen and I, and the daughter stepped in and she visited him in the hospital and I coached her to arrange the step down to rehab and the step back to the independent community. And there she was. And at that point, I was just coaching because he needed to leave the independent community and enter an assisted living community. So the next step of the, of the journey, and she did great. She did great. And, and we all wonde in that story.

Wendy Green [00:38:13]:

And I so appreciate that, Nancy, because I think that's, that's the key to everything that you do, is that is the education, you know, because none of us, I mean, we, those of us who have been parents, maybe we learned some about caregiving, right, as parents, but none of us learned about caregiving for parents, for our own parents.

Nancy Ruffner [00:38:34]:

And it's just so alien feeling, too, when the roles change.

Wendy Green [00:38:37]:

It is, it is, and it's uncomfortable. It's not that, you know, you have different expectations of your own parent. And to have somebody there to coach you to say, okay, this, this might be received more easily, or, I mean, gosh, that's so valuable.

Nancy Ruffner [00:38:54]:

It can be.

Wendy Green [00:38:55]:

Thank you for that. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, I thank you so much for being part of this. And I'm wondering if you have, I don't know, two or three takeaways that you might how to get started or things to think about before the crisis happens.

Nancy Ruffner [00:39:17]:

Sure. I am somebody who is very positive because I know that we can affect change regarding the outcome. And so to folks listening, I would say there is a solution. And that one of my mantras, which I love to repeat, is out of the problem and into the solution. And that's where you and I will work, is getting out of the problem and getting into the solution. I would also, another mantra that I'll leave folks with is we can all have a say about how things will go and where we'll end up. That simple. We can all have a say.

Wendy Green [00:40:01]:

We just have to let it be known ahead of time. Right.

Nancy Ruffner [00:40:04]:

Right.

Wendy Green [00:40:04]:

I, well, this has been very valuable, Nancy, thank you. You can find Nancy and articles and blogs and where she's speaking and all that kind of stuff on her website at Nancy Ruffner. That's ruffner.com. or she also says you can email her with questions if you'd like@nancyruffner.com. so I will put those in the show notes along with some of the sites that she gave us of where you could find other patient advocates. And so appreciate your time. Nancy, thank you. Thank you.

Nancy Ruffner [00:40:45]:

This has been an honor and a pleasure.

Wendy Green [00:40:49]:

So I want to tell you about next week's guest. We're continuing on our topic of health for next week, and it will be the last one this month. And his name is Jason Gutmann. And Jason is a Mayo Clinic Certified wellness coach and national board certified health and wellness coach, as well as a certified nutritionist and certified exercise physiologist. Jason has a lot of certifications. He helps people reverse and prevent type two diabetes, cardiovascular disease and other ailments with evidence based approaches to nutrition, exercise, stress reduction, holistic wellness, and most importantly, lasting behavior improvement and positive habit formation. Because, as you know, change is hard. And as a health and wellness coach and Mayo clinic certified, I never heard of that before.

Wendy Green [00:41:49]:

So that's interesting, too. Join me next week to talk to Jason Gutman. And each episode of Boomer Banter is an invitation to listen, learn, and apply the wisdom gained to your own life. And Nancy definitely shared some wisdom with us today. We are a supportive community, so reach out and join the community. The Boomer Banter podcast is produced by me, Wendy Green, and the music comes from Purple Planet music. Thank you so much, Nancy.

Nancy Ruffner [00:42:26]:

Thank you.