1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,220 Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. 2 00:00:02,230 --> 00:00:14,199 This is your host, Ralph Burns and this is the show where we share cutting edge strategies and acquiring leads and sales to acquire more customers for your business through traffic, as well as conversion architecture. 3 00:00:14,220 --> 00:00:30,270 And after the click and we're gonna talk Facebook Google all kinds of stuff today because we are in a what's working now episode and it's been way way too long since we had boy band star, Kobe on Perpetual Traffic. 4 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,220 You've been kind of preoccupied though. 5 00:00:32,229 --> 00:00:36,389 And people are, people are kind of, you know, wondering where has Kobe been? 6 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,259 Where is the fabulous Israeli? 7 00:00:38,270 --> 00:00:39,770 Why isn't he on P T? 8 00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:43,549 So give us an update as to what's going on in your life these days? 9 00:00:43,979 --> 00:00:48,750 I just kind of had like a tiny creature join my life two months ago. 10 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:49,330 Yeah. 11 00:00:49,340 --> 00:00:49,470 Yeah. 12 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,790 Kind of rock the boat a bit for everyone. 13 00:00:52,369 --> 00:00:54,099 No, no, no, not a baby. 14 00:00:54,110 --> 00:00:54,639 A baby. 15 00:00:54,659 --> 00:00:54,720 Yeah. 16 00:00:54,729 --> 00:00:54,959 Yeah, a baby. 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:57,000 Like a pet. 18 00:00:57,939 --> 00:01:00,349 She's very rude compared to a pet. 19 00:01:00,389 --> 00:01:05,459 You know, pet really does what you want and they fairly, they want to sleep the baby. 20 00:01:05,470 --> 00:01:10,000 No, no, she's very rude, she cries, she gets food when she wants, she gets clothes. 21 00:01:10,599 --> 00:01:11,480 Exactly. 22 00:01:11,489 --> 00:01:12,519 Like, what the hell. 23 00:01:12,849 --> 00:01:14,139 I know it's expanding. 24 00:01:14,769 --> 00:01:17,110 Now, you're dad, now you're dead. 25 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,760 You're seeing the world through like a different set of lenses. 26 00:01:19,769 --> 00:01:24,480 It's no longer Kobe Topez boy band star touring the world. 27 00:01:24,860 --> 00:01:26,419 You know, free freestyle. 28 00:01:26,430 --> 00:01:28,629 Now you are a family man. 29 00:01:28,639 --> 00:01:32,839 Well, you've always been a family guy but I mean, now it's even more so, what, what's it been like? 30 00:01:33,610 --> 00:01:34,379 It's been good. 31 00:01:34,389 --> 00:01:40,349 I mean, honestly, you see the smile and that kind of covers everything, all the stress. 32 00:01:40,430 --> 00:01:44,099 But it's like you can describe it in walls. 33 00:01:44,110 --> 00:01:46,540 I would say like the labor was really, really tough. 34 00:01:46,739 --> 00:01:48,660 I honestly didn't think she's gonna make it. 35 00:01:48,970 --> 00:01:53,379 Which kind of gets you like to think of stuff, put things in perspective a bit. 36 00:01:53,500 --> 00:01:55,470 But yeah, overall it's been amazing so far. 37 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,819 She looks exactly like me, which is exactly what I wanted and I wanted a daughter first. 38 00:01:59,830 --> 00:02:04,430 So like, yeah, so I got what I wanted made a good deal with the person above. 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:05,309 So that's good. 40 00:02:05,919 --> 00:02:07,879 You're experiencing the little girl syndrome. 41 00:02:07,889 --> 00:02:09,589 I, I never got that experience. 42 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,330 I had two boys so I wanted a, a girl first. 43 00:02:12,339 --> 00:02:12,600 Now. 44 00:02:12,610 --> 00:02:16,990 That's, I couldn't nothing else if it's a boy, send it back. 45 00:02:17,115 --> 00:02:18,634 Oh, well, I made up for it. 46 00:02:18,645 --> 00:02:19,985 I have lots of nieces. 47 00:02:19,994 --> 00:02:25,005 So I sort of saying that's, I'm still kind of, you know, working through that, but Yeah, this is amazing. 48 00:02:25,014 --> 00:02:33,889 And she's born into this world, which is an interesting world right now, for those of you who don't know where Kobe lives, he lives in Israel, he lives in Ashlan. 49 00:02:34,990 --> 00:02:36,509 I pronounce that correctly. 50 00:02:38,509 --> 00:02:39,380 I forgive you. 51 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:40,039 All right. 52 00:02:40,050 --> 00:02:45,789 Well, I'm just a stupid American but right now you've got changes in the personal life, but also there's some things going on. 53 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,110 You're getting some gifts every single day from some foreign countries. 54 00:02:49,119 --> 00:02:50,570 Uh, tell us, tell us about that. 55 00:02:50,679 --> 00:02:57,625 One of the organizations in Gaza just been sending presents these past couple of days in the form of missile, which is always nice. 56 00:02:57,634 --> 00:03:01,205 Kind of puts you in shape to run to the show though, which is always great. 57 00:03:01,214 --> 00:03:02,375 This is like, no good luck. 58 00:03:02,384 --> 00:03:03,145 We are not kidding. 59 00:03:03,154 --> 00:03:04,705 Here, people are like, yeah, wait, you. 60 00:03:04,714 --> 00:03:05,585 Right. 61 00:03:05,695 --> 00:03:11,464 No, like that actually happened on a call that you had with one of our creative people this past week. 62 00:03:11,475 --> 00:03:11,925 Right. 63 00:03:11,934 --> 00:03:12,324 Yep. 64 00:03:12,335 --> 00:03:12,684 Yep. 65 00:03:12,695 --> 00:03:13,145 Yep. 66 00:03:13,154 --> 00:03:14,205 It's been interesting. 67 00:03:14,524 --> 00:03:16,354 There's a couple of explosions in the background. 68 00:03:16,365 --> 00:03:23,419 If you hear that on the show here today, it's not, you know, we're not manufacturing or maybe he will put it in post production just for a little dramatic effect. 69 00:03:23,429 --> 00:03:28,820 But if Kobe has to rudely leave, that means you have to go to the, it is called the bomb shelter, right? 70 00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:29,520 Yeah. 71 00:03:29,899 --> 00:03:29,929 Yep. 72 00:03:30,250 --> 00:03:30,320 Yep. 73 00:03:30,330 --> 00:03:30,360 Yep. 74 00:03:31,070 --> 00:03:32,360 Unbelievable. 75 00:03:32,369 --> 00:03:36,160 So these are the things and then you gotta have some action in life. 76 00:03:36,169 --> 00:03:40,220 One way you're running to a shelter and then the other way you manage ads, it is what it is. 77 00:03:40,229 --> 00:03:47,330 And then, you know, you're feeding the baby a bottle, like, like most men can't multitask. 78 00:03:47,339 --> 00:03:49,679 What's, that's fabulous. 79 00:03:49,690 --> 00:03:55,259 Well, well, we're gonna get into like your world of advertising here today. 80 00:03:55,270 --> 00:04:12,160 And, you know, we usually drop a nugget in this first section, but this is nugget filled the entire show and I'm pretty excited to get into some of these case studies, some of the experiences we've had, some of which we've talked a little bit about here on perpetual traffic in the past, but we're gonna get into real specific. 81 00:04:12,169 --> 00:04:23,000 So if you want what's working now, especially on the Facebook side, and we'll be doing a lot on the Google side as well as some of the other platforms that we serve today is your show. 82 00:04:23,010 --> 00:04:26,880 And we've got some counterintuitive strategies here that we've referred to. 83 00:04:26,890 --> 00:04:30,869 But now we're gonna get more specifics because I think people really love the specifics. 84 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:38,579 And if you're running a marketing department or you're a marketing director, these are the kinds of things you should be asking your team about like, hey, are you doing the stuff that Kobe to is doing? 85 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:48,089 Because I just heard this cool, you know, se he's dodging missiles and feeding babies and running ads like this guy is, I don't know, you're like a superhero man. 86 00:04:48,380 --> 00:04:58,549 So we're gonna get into some of your superhero tactics right after this quick break, you're listening to Perpetual Traffic. 87 00:05:05,369 --> 00:05:12,750 All right, we are here with a superhero, Koby Topez talking some ad stuff here on Perpetual Traffic. 88 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:20,500 And I love today's first what's working now because it's just such a cool way of looking at things. 89 00:05:20,510 --> 00:05:30,959 And it's also, if you go back to episode like 12 and three of perpetual traffic, I love the fact that's the stuff that used to work like seven or eight years ago, probably never stopped working. 90 00:05:31,019 --> 00:05:32,880 But now we're all getting back to it. 91 00:05:32,890 --> 00:05:35,899 It's amazing how there's advertising is cyclical. 92 00:05:35,910 --> 00:05:41,299 And I think it's an example of, hey, if you had something that worked a year or two ago, try it again. 93 00:05:41,309 --> 00:05:44,730 Now, now we just sort of stumbled on this one, I believe. 94 00:05:44,739 --> 00:05:50,040 So let's get into this strategy here with one of the companies that we serve in the charity, Nitch. 95 00:05:50,429 --> 00:05:50,890 Yep. 96 00:05:50,899 --> 00:05:58,510 So the first thing I would say, don't disrespect your customers by not providing them content because you're only going to hurt yourself. 97 00:05:58,519 --> 00:06:06,489 So, what we have right now is we have a team, an awesome team will Simone and Amy working on one of the accounts. 98 00:06:07,010 --> 00:06:16,200 And what they did is they were able to drop the CPA by 22% while increased the number of new donors simply by using content first. 99 00:06:16,359 --> 00:06:22,799 So with this charity, we noticed that sending people directly to a landing page doesn't really close the deal. 100 00:06:23,269 --> 00:06:26,190 We experienced high CPA S, it didn't really work. 101 00:06:26,500 --> 00:06:30,089 So what the team decided to do is go with education first. 102 00:06:30,100 --> 00:06:43,940 So without even asking for a donation at the beginning, they just sent the potential donors to different pieces from the website, different blog post, the homepage, they wanted to get the potential new donors to get to know the charity because it's not easy. 103 00:06:43,950 --> 00:06:45,950 Like once you see an ad, OK, I'll do it right now. 104 00:06:45,959 --> 00:06:52,649 Unless you know, you have a business and you just wanna get rid of that money, then you can do your deals with the tax, like with the IRS. 105 00:06:52,970 --> 00:06:57,940 So what they did is the charity has a bunch of useful content like a bunch of case studies. 106 00:06:57,950 --> 00:07:05,510 So without even asking for a donation, what they did is they started rotating different blog posts, showcasing different case studies, different stories. 107 00:07:05,519 --> 00:07:10,809 And then once they started doing that, they started to build that big audience of people who became aware of the charity. 108 00:07:10,820 --> 00:07:21,720 And then they asked for the donation and what ended up happening is through the span of three months, they were able to drop the CPA by 22% and increase the number of new donors by 50%. 109 00:07:22,250 --> 00:07:25,940 And what they do now is just 50% 50. 110 00:07:26,459 --> 00:07:33,390 Yes, that's pretty, it's hugely significant because these guys were kind of stalled a bit as far as new donors are concerned. 111 00:07:33,399 --> 00:07:35,149 Like that's a major accomplishment. 112 00:07:35,529 --> 00:07:36,839 Yeah, absolutely. 113 00:07:36,850 --> 00:07:39,290 The team has been working very hard on that account. 114 00:07:39,299 --> 00:07:43,339 It's just been amazing to see the results and it always comes from brainstorming. 115 00:07:43,559 --> 00:07:47,309 Like one team member says one thing and then the other one comes with it and another idea. 116 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:54,070 The third one comes with another idea and then you start brainstorming, you put the plan together, then the plan wolves 100% of the time because we're so awesome. 117 00:07:54,079 --> 00:07:55,600 Works 100% of the time. 118 00:07:55,829 --> 00:07:56,399 There you go. 119 00:07:56,410 --> 00:07:57,260 There's a guarantee. 120 00:07:57,510 --> 00:07:59,589 It doesn't work 100% of the time. 121 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,500 But if you're getting close to 100% that's pretty good. 122 00:08:02,910 --> 00:08:10,000 I mean, logically this makes sense, but I think a lot of folks don't want to do it because they're like, oh, I just want to go for the sale. 123 00:08:10,010 --> 00:08:11,179 I want to go for the donation. 124 00:08:11,190 --> 00:08:12,109 I want to go for the lead. 125 00:08:12,119 --> 00:08:13,410 I want to go for the conversion. 126 00:08:13,700 --> 00:08:15,290 I don't want all these other steps. 127 00:08:15,299 --> 00:08:23,130 I don't have time for that or I do think that a lot of businesses will start off with just straight website conversion campaigns. 128 00:08:23,140 --> 00:08:30,049 We've been running ads for these guys and doing their online marketing for quite some time, which most of it was website conversions. 129 00:08:30,315 --> 00:08:32,625 But this is a different kind of strategy. 130 00:08:32,635 --> 00:08:38,385 And I know we actually met with them at meta back in the fall and they talked about content first strategy. 131 00:08:38,505 --> 00:08:42,984 However, it actually is whether it's video content, whether it's blog content doesn't really matter. 132 00:08:42,994 --> 00:08:46,554 And I think we're actually gonna be talking about a case study here for blog content as well. 133 00:08:46,734 --> 00:08:55,025 But it's like this content first strategy, you have to be a little bit more patient and then you do have to roll that cost into your overall CPA. 134 00:08:55,309 --> 00:08:58,039 So I think people are reluctant to do it. 135 00:08:58,049 --> 00:09:00,840 They just want to kind of go for the say, hey, I'm a direct market. 136 00:09:00,849 --> 00:09:05,280 I'm just gonna go for the sale and that does work to an extent. 137 00:09:05,289 --> 00:09:11,409 But then you have to broaden it out and reach new people that aren't ready to contribute. 138 00:09:11,419 --> 00:09:12,849 Like right here now. 139 00:09:12,859 --> 00:09:13,450 Correct. 140 00:09:13,460 --> 00:09:14,140 Exactly. 141 00:09:14,150 --> 00:09:30,820 And then if you take the long term approach, you'll end up having more raving customs because you were there first when they weren't aware, you educated them further than the other ones like you've been there with them other than straight going to the cell, I'm not saying you can go straight to the cell like you absolutely can. 142 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:32,239 You will have a lot of accounts. 143 00:09:32,250 --> 00:09:35,150 Well, this is all they do and talks for them. 144 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:42,400 But you got to think long term traffic costs are gonna always increase, especially on those audience segments that are ready to convert right now. 145 00:09:42,409 --> 00:09:43,080 It is what it is. 146 00:09:43,090 --> 00:09:44,280 We've seen it every year. 147 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,789 So you gotta take a step back and look at everything. 148 00:09:46,799 --> 00:09:55,609 Long term, build your content strategy, build your lead magnet your follow up email sequence, focus on those stuff because you're here for the long term, not for the short term. 149 00:09:55,619 --> 00:09:58,039 So you gotta put focus on content. 150 00:09:58,049 --> 00:10:01,619 And I would say that this is very like uh in the trick here. 151 00:10:01,630 --> 00:10:05,929 But most people think, oh I'm gonna run a campaign optimizing four clicks on Facebook. 152 00:10:05,940 --> 00:10:08,539 I'm just gonna get clicks, you know, if you do that, you are. 153 00:10:08,609 --> 00:10:17,263 But what you can also do is you can set up soft conversion, meaning people that scroll like 50% of your article or people who clicked on a button on the blog post. 154 00:10:17,403 --> 00:10:24,013 So then you train the algorithm to look for those people that will accomplish those soft conversions and not just people who are here to click on the app. 155 00:10:24,273 --> 00:10:30,004 So you train the algorithm to behave differently and get you to the different segment of audience and that's something that could really benefit you. 156 00:10:30,013 --> 00:10:35,903 These are in essence video case studies and then click to learn more about the case study. 157 00:10:35,914 --> 00:10:39,573 Not necessarily click to contribute or click, click the donate. 158 00:10:39,583 --> 00:10:40,114 Exactly. 159 00:10:40,124 --> 00:10:43,054 Just hear, hear us how to read nothing. 160 00:10:43,064 --> 00:10:47,518 We don't ask for any, just read the case study, watch the video, nothing else. 161 00:10:47,528 --> 00:10:49,838 We don't ask for a donation, we don't ask for anything. 162 00:10:49,937 --> 00:10:52,627 Yeah, which is so counterintuitive. 163 00:10:52,737 --> 00:10:56,418 If you're a V P of marketing, you're like, ah I'm not gonna do that and that's wasted money. 164 00:10:56,427 --> 00:11:02,997 Well, is it, it's not actually because if you think about consumer behavior, I mean, you're doing really, really good. 165 00:11:03,007 --> 00:11:05,018 I actually have a diagram behind me here. 166 00:11:05,028 --> 00:11:09,297 If you're watching the youtube of like a customer journey in the e-commerce space. 167 00:11:09,307 --> 00:11:18,952 And one of the things that I talk about is like, all right, if you're gonna send a Facebook ad to your, the landing page or your sales page off called traffic, basically interest targeting. 168 00:11:18,961 --> 00:11:23,692 You do some exclusions of your past purchasers or your leads or people who have visited your website. 169 00:11:23,702 --> 00:11:24,471 That kind of thing. 170 00:11:24,572 --> 00:11:37,932 If you're really, really good, you might get one out of 100 clicks to do what you want them to do unless it's an opt in for an email and an address, you know, that kind of thing, name an email, obviously 2030% conversion rate is more the norm. 171 00:11:37,942 --> 00:11:46,825 But for a purchase for an actual, I'm gonna buy something like 1% to 3% sort of depending on where you're at in the market is pretty good. 172 00:11:47,205 --> 00:11:52,096 But what are you gonna do with the other 99 or 97 people who didn't buy? 173 00:11:52,106 --> 00:11:54,226 Well, they're not ready to buy. 174 00:11:54,486 --> 00:12:03,306 So that tells you like, even when you're doing website conversion campaigns for a purchase, you're still leaving money on the table and then we'll retarget those people. 175 00:12:03,315 --> 00:12:13,245 Obviously in your website conversion campaigns for you'll watch a certain percentage of the video or maybe clicked onto a sales page or a landing page or retarget them with different types of messaging. 176 00:12:13,469 --> 00:12:18,799 But still you're in a website conversion mentality, which is great and you start that way. 177 00:12:18,809 --> 00:12:25,559 But when you do get to a certain point where you almost kind of saturate that market, is that safe to say? 178 00:12:25,570 --> 00:12:28,020 And then you have to look at these other sorts of strategies. 179 00:12:28,030 --> 00:12:30,690 How would you approach it if you're like a V P of marketing saying? 180 00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:34,955 All right, I know why people are doing X Y and Z but they could be doing so much more. 181 00:12:34,965 --> 00:12:38,414 Is this a next step strategy or is this is something that you should start with? 182 00:12:38,585 --> 00:12:48,655 I would say start definitely with conversion first to build that cash flow to get to that hot segment, you want to get traffic and you want to, you need to get money going even if you're not breaking even in the first round. 183 00:12:49,030 --> 00:12:57,900 So go to that top of the top audience that is in market to convert right now, start there and then slowly build out the content strategy. 184 00:12:57,909 --> 00:13:07,479 Now, this also comes down when you do your customer research, like you gotta understand what type of content your customers are engaging with and that will help you develop your content strategy. 185 00:13:07,539 --> 00:13:09,260 Now, let's think about it this way as well. 186 00:13:09,270 --> 00:13:15,020 Like if you're running ads on social, if you're running ads on Google search, the behavior there is very different right? 187 00:13:15,460 --> 00:13:17,869 On Google search primarily, it's intent based. 188 00:13:18,140 --> 00:13:23,859 Whereas if you're running traffic on Facebook, linkedin, Pinterest Tik Tok, you're basically interrupting people. 189 00:13:23,869 --> 00:13:25,599 Those are social platforms. 190 00:13:25,830 --> 00:13:29,440 They are there to consume content from their friends, their colleagues or whatever. 191 00:13:29,450 --> 00:13:31,729 But the point being they are there to consume content. 192 00:13:32,090 --> 00:13:37,900 So if you're coming straight from an ad and asking them buy my shit or do this or do that, yeah, people are gonna respond to that. 193 00:13:37,909 --> 00:13:38,150 Yes. 194 00:13:38,159 --> 00:13:44,400 But the majority of them are going to respond more to when you come to them with education content, educational content. 195 00:13:44,489 --> 00:13:49,159 So you need to adapt your content and your ads based on the platform, you're running traffic from now. 196 00:13:49,169 --> 00:13:53,159 It doesn't mean that the content that you put together is 100% content. 197 00:13:53,539 --> 00:13:58,780 You can do a blog post that starts with amount of content like five tips or three tips or whatever. 198 00:13:58,789 --> 00:14:04,270 And then you start taking people to the next step even if it's just to click on the URL to check the next page. 199 00:14:04,599 --> 00:14:11,729 But the point being is when we say content first, it doesn't mean that 100% of the blog post is all content and there's no pitch, nothing. 200 00:14:11,739 --> 00:14:13,169 You can definitely combine the two. 201 00:14:13,250 --> 00:14:17,780 So as far as objective like let's talk about meta platforms just specifically. 202 00:14:17,789 --> 00:14:24,030 So these three ads which you probably leave links in the show notes from this customer is what is your objective? 203 00:14:24,039 --> 00:14:38,479 Are you using website conversion still or are you using a different objective at the top like video view, like what's your, you also talked about not and the result conversion point but somewhere in between like what's the strategy around that? 204 00:14:38,659 --> 00:14:47,000 So I would say, first of all, you can start with conversions and optimize for that specific soft conversions like button click scroll de, you can definitely start with those. 205 00:14:47,219 --> 00:14:52,049 If for any technical reason, you're unable to do that, then go ahead and do a traffic. 206 00:14:52,059 --> 00:14:56,250 Obviously, at the end of the day, you can do a split test and see what is more beneficial to you. 207 00:14:56,260 --> 00:14:59,710 So you can have one campaign straight, optimize for traffic and page views. 208 00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:02,229 You can have another campaign optimizing for soft conversion. 209 00:15:02,239 --> 00:15:05,239 Then you can see which campaign group provides a better CPA. 210 00:15:05,250 --> 00:15:10,479 So you can separate your account and you have like one group of campaigns with traffic first and then the retargeting campaigns. 211 00:15:10,489 --> 00:15:17,150 And then you have another campaign group with optimizing those one of the soft conversions and then re targeting campaigns based on that soft conversion. 212 00:15:17,619 --> 00:15:25,130 And you can see, let's say you run this test for like 30 days, see which group converts below does not really right or wrong. 213 00:15:25,140 --> 00:15:27,030 He let the data do the talking. 214 00:15:27,039 --> 00:15:31,349 So one of the things that I noticed that you didn't mention, you didn't mention video view objective. 215 00:15:31,359 --> 00:15:32,179 Why is that? 216 00:15:32,190 --> 00:15:41,215 Because it would seem to me like that would be the logical choice for the campaign objective if you want to get people to watch more of the video and then you retard those people. 217 00:15:41,224 --> 00:15:54,239 But you're talking doing a split test, even with traffic landing page views or maybe even a split test for website conversions for some soft conversion, like button click, it depends on the content you put up front and the purpose of it. 218 00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:59,960 So in two examples, we want people to actually leave Facebook and consume the content on the blog. 219 00:15:59,969 --> 00:16:01,299 That's the main objective there. 220 00:16:01,309 --> 00:16:04,190 Like we want them outside of Facebook, they can watch certain video here. 221 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:05,799 We'll target them later. 222 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:11,169 But the main focus is to take them outside of Facebook, get them on the website and start consuming the content there. 223 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:12,239 That's the main objective. 224 00:16:12,250 --> 00:16:17,570 You can definitely 100% build the custom audience of video views, but it really depends on what you wanna do. 225 00:16:17,580 --> 00:16:31,530 If for example, you want to focus on providing your content, not through blog posts, but just through videos, then you can definitely run a video views campaign straight with only videos and then re target those video viewers definitely depends on the piece of content that you have. 226 00:16:31,950 --> 00:16:37,169 So in this case, it's like a shorter video and like I said, we'll leave links in the show notes for a couple of the ads here. 227 00:16:37,179 --> 00:16:44,219 These are shorter videos that sort of give a high level overview of a particular case. 228 00:16:44,229 --> 00:16:51,919 Like twins with Cleft Palates, like this is their story but to learn more about this story, it's not a 10 minute video. 229 00:16:52,090 --> 00:16:54,320 It's like a minute video or so. 230 00:16:54,330 --> 00:17:04,310 But it's the real thing you want them to do is to click and to actually consume the entire blog post on the case study because that shows some intent. 231 00:17:04,650 --> 00:17:04,969 Yep. 232 00:17:04,979 --> 00:17:05,949 Exactly. 233 00:17:06,199 --> 00:17:06,420 Yeah. 234 00:17:06,430 --> 00:17:10,550 The more actions we can make the potential customer do the better. 235 00:17:10,719 --> 00:17:16,989 So not just sit down and watch the video, click, go there, scroll all those mini actions, the more the better. 236 00:17:17,348 --> 00:17:24,150 And then you're obviously taking some of these video view engagement audiences and you're probably throwing those into your retargeting campaigns as well. 237 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:24,890 I have to assume. 238 00:17:25,180 --> 00:17:25,510 Yeah. 239 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:26,199 Absolutely. 240 00:17:26,209 --> 00:17:26,400 Yeah. 241 00:17:26,410 --> 00:17:28,290 Very cool here. 242 00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:37,790 And so the next step after this, so you get the click that goes to the page, I consume the blog post about the twins with Cleft Palates. 243 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,530 Then what ad do I see after that? 244 00:17:40,540 --> 00:17:46,469 Or are we getting conversions on this ad specifically or what's sort of step two here? 245 00:17:46,699 --> 00:17:49,270 So step two is for me to chase you till you die. 246 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,089 That's basically it till you make the action I want you to make. 247 00:17:52,099 --> 00:17:53,479 That's the, that's the main thing. 248 00:17:53,489 --> 00:17:56,390 Chase you around the internet till you die. 249 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,010 Yeah, until you pull out your credit card. 250 00:17:58,020 --> 00:17:58,410 Got it. 251 00:17:58,420 --> 00:17:58,930 Yep. 252 00:17:58,939 --> 00:17:59,170 Yep. 253 00:17:59,180 --> 00:17:59,800 Exactly. 254 00:17:59,810 --> 00:18:00,540 Either way. 255 00:18:00,550 --> 00:18:21,930 So the next step would be to run a re targeting ad on some cases when you run those top of funnel campaigns, you would get conversions but don't judge the performance of that campaign based on the CPA because that would be a wrong decision because the purpose of that campaign is not to drive a conversion, not, not to drive your end conversion is to drive something else like that soft conversion or just that click. 256 00:18:21,939 --> 00:18:24,400 So measure the campaign based on those metrics. 257 00:18:24,469 --> 00:18:29,390 So once people land on your blog post and consume the content, then you can start running the targeting ads to them. 258 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,890 Now it depends on what the customer needs to make the next step. 259 00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:48,439 So for example, in this case for charity, you want to show even more case studies, you wanna show actually where the money is going because people have doubts, like you hear all of these stories that people don't need to charities and then the money goes to the CEO or whatever and it doesn't really go to the people who actually need the money. 260 00:18:48,619 --> 00:18:55,229 The primary focus there is to overcome objection, show more proof, like show the customer that you're actually here. 261 00:18:55,239 --> 00:18:57,000 Like you're doing what you're telling you're doing. 262 00:18:57,010 --> 00:19:01,060 The highlight here is to overcome potential objections and lead them to the sale. 263 00:19:01,439 --> 00:19:05,050 You can also show different case studies like number stats work really well. 264 00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:06,609 They are more testimonials. 265 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,680 So that's pretty much what you can chase them on the targeting ads. 266 00:19:09,969 --> 00:19:10,859 Super interesting. 267 00:19:10,869 --> 00:19:16,949 I feel like I said, we'll leave links to the show notes for these ads but there is also a section way at the bottom. 268 00:19:16,959 --> 00:19:20,270 The call to action is to donate now way at the bottom. 269 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:27,569 But also there is a likelihood of you contributing or how likely are you to make a donation after reading this article? 270 00:19:27,579 --> 00:19:28,489 Which is interesting. 271 00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:31,969 Do you have any data on that little bar graph on the bottom? 272 00:19:31,979 --> 00:19:33,489 Because it's super interesting. 273 00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:34,510 And if you don't, that's fine. 274 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:40,150 But I find this page, I've never actually, we've never actually talked about these sorts of things on the show before. 275 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,109 So it's pretty cool. 276 00:19:41,479 --> 00:19:46,250 Do you have any data on that chart as to whether or not you're getting any meaningful data there? 277 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,140 No, I'll have to ask the team. 278 00:19:48,239 --> 00:20:01,890 But the point is, is the idea is to consume it and then sort of the soft next step of more case studies, not necessarily just going right for the sale, but you probably have on that level two retargeting, which is all right. 279 00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:09,425 I've engaged with the article, I've linked end it on a specific page or maybe I've watched a percentage of videos like we refer to that as level two retargeting. 280 00:20:09,435 --> 00:20:11,074 You are giving them the option. 281 00:20:11,084 --> 00:20:16,724 You are running some straight to conversion ads on that or is it still mostly case studies? 282 00:20:16,734 --> 00:20:17,824 No, absolutely. 283 00:20:17,834 --> 00:20:22,214 You can combine case studies but you can combine them with more aggressive call to action. 284 00:20:22,395 --> 00:20:32,064 So if you can show, OK, look here are more results, more stories, you can run an ad that with a charity story and then you can be more aggressive with your copy call to action. 285 00:20:32,329 --> 00:20:34,520 So it can definitely be more aggressive at that stage. 286 00:20:34,530 --> 00:20:35,319 Absolutely. 287 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,260 And those people are getting retargeted. 288 00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:38,560 I mean, it's a smaller audience. 289 00:20:38,569 --> 00:20:44,689 Obviously, somebody who's a clicker, either on, you know, the button or they're landing on the landing page. 290 00:20:44,699 --> 00:20:46,180 Those are smaller audiences. 291 00:20:46,189 --> 00:20:51,930 So they might see another case study and then the next day, they might see a conversion case study that's like donate now. 292 00:20:51,939 --> 00:20:53,900 So you are kind of getting a mix of both. 293 00:20:53,910 --> 00:20:56,459 You don't really know exactly what happens at that point. 294 00:20:56,469 --> 00:21:07,359 But you're getting people that are lightly interested, have some level of engagement and you're following this whole customer acquisition path to A T like this is how humans interact with brands. 295 00:21:07,369 --> 00:21:20,430 You don't, not everybody buys on the first click, there's the 99% or 97% or if you're really good, you get a 10% conversion rate, but that's probably a paper click, intent based keyword search ad or maybe a branded ad. 296 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,660 You got to do something. 297 00:21:21,670 --> 00:21:26,469 You gotta have a strategy for all the other people that aren't ready to buy right now, aren't ready to take that action right now. 298 00:21:26,479 --> 00:21:31,420 You're sort of softly taking them down this path without twisting their arm. 299 00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:35,699 I mean, you will be retargeting them until they probably donate, which is fine. 300 00:21:35,709 --> 00:21:40,650 But you know, those people are at least somewhat interested in what you have to offer it. 301 00:21:40,660 --> 00:21:41,569 Exactly. 302 00:21:41,579 --> 00:21:42,030 Yep. 303 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:42,869 100 percent. 304 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:50,910 This is, I don't know, this is not earth shattering stuff but it's so cool because it, it makes so much sense and people don't do this. 305 00:21:51,150 --> 00:21:53,349 I just did a strategic growth plan for a customer. 306 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:54,500 He wasn't doing any of this. 307 00:21:54,510 --> 00:21:59,959 He's like, I have all the same ads straight to a product page, all the same message. 308 00:21:59,969 --> 00:22:15,359 I'm not altering my message, whether it's cold traffic, whether it's lightly engaged, level two traffic, somebody who's like, viewed a specific product or even added to cart, like every step of the way you need a little bit of different messaging because it is part of this whole pathway. 309 00:22:15,650 --> 00:22:20,459 And if you're not doing this in your marketing, you are certainly leaving money on the table. 310 00:22:20,469 --> 00:22:25,719 If your team isn't doing this in your marketing, it's certainly something for you to ask them about for damn sure. 311 00:22:25,729 --> 00:22:32,180 So we're gonna get into, uh, our next case study on what's working now with rock star superhero. 312 00:22:32,189 --> 00:22:35,000 We just keep adding to your resume here. 313 00:22:35,079 --> 00:22:36,500 Brand new dad. 314 00:22:36,510 --> 00:22:40,699 Rocket missile, Survivor, rocket missile, Survivor. 315 00:22:40,709 --> 00:22:43,040 Kobe to right after this quick break. 316 00:22:43,979 --> 00:22:50,339 All right, we're back with Kobe Topez and we just talked about a case study in the charity niche. 317 00:22:50,349 --> 00:22:56,270 But I think no matter if you're in the service niche, you're selling digital products, you're in the legion niche, you're in the e-commerce niche. 318 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:57,800 I think you can take something from that. 319 00:22:58,130 --> 00:23:04,410 So let's talk about the next one, which is, it's a completely different space more in the credit repair space. 320 00:23:04,420 --> 00:23:07,150 And this is one we kind of stumbled on from the Google team. 321 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:18,449 If I'm not mistaken, that then altered our meta strategy, which is the whole idea behind what we refer to as traffic harmonization, getting all the platforms to work together. 322 00:23:18,459 --> 00:23:19,790 So tell us about this case study. 323 00:23:20,540 --> 00:23:29,030 So the interesting thing in one of the spring calls that the team had that the Google media shared that the traffic that's coming from. 324 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:36,959 The Performance Max campaign has been sent to different blog posts and different blog posts perform really well on the campaigns. 325 00:23:37,109 --> 00:23:38,829 The horse was good, the CPA was good. 326 00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:43,250 So what we thought about doing is based on that we saw that people are engaging with that content. 327 00:23:43,260 --> 00:23:45,810 On the Facebook side, we didn't really send anyone to the content. 328 00:23:45,819 --> 00:23:48,650 We just sent them straight to the sales pages and that's pretty much it. 329 00:23:49,099 --> 00:24:03,189 But from the Google side, the Google team ran a performance Max campaign with different ads and then because they had the final URL expansion option running, then Performance Max, what they did, it sent people to pages based on what it thought would be better for them. 330 00:24:03,859 --> 00:24:12,880 So what ended up happening is people will visit the multi different pages and then for that they consume their content and then they made conversions then they convert and then made a purchase. 331 00:24:13,150 --> 00:24:19,859 So when we saw that, we saw the people engaged with different blog posts, we thought, ok, well, there's clearly behavior going on there. 332 00:24:19,869 --> 00:24:21,790 There's clearly an intent going on there. 333 00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:24,550 Why can't we just run it on Facebook as well? 334 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,229 So then we started creating ads around that and then we started running those to our audiences as well. 335 00:24:29,369 --> 00:24:31,869 The purpose of that campaign is not to make money. 336 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,670 It's just to let people consume the content. 337 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,665 But what ends up happening is that campaign covers our ad spend, which is massive win in itself. 338 00:24:38,675 --> 00:24:44,864 But then you break even on that preen engagement, content ad spend, we're more than breaking in. 339 00:24:44,875 --> 00:24:46,405 We're like a 1.15. 340 00:24:46,834 --> 00:24:48,285 So we're making some money. 341 00:24:48,295 --> 00:24:49,875 Some nothing crazy. 342 00:24:49,885 --> 00:24:59,765 You are a superhero at the end of the day, the team that are working on this account did amazing John credit goes to watch Landon Federico, Courtney and Simone. 343 00:24:59,994 --> 00:25:03,464 We took those blog posts and then we started creating ads on them for Facebook. 344 00:25:03,474 --> 00:25:18,349 And then what ended up happening is we started targeting our war audiences and we wanted them to consume the content because on those blog posts, the content there is very valuable for the target audience we after but also there are ct A there that drive people back to the finals. 345 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,900 So what ended up happening is people consume the content WMO consume that content. 346 00:25:22,979 --> 00:25:26,500 They reengage with us and then they convert for the finals. 347 00:25:26,510 --> 00:25:30,170 So this company is running on a very low budget around like 203 $100. 348 00:25:30,250 --> 00:25:30,859 They on Facebook. 349 00:25:30,869 --> 00:25:31,839 Nothing too crazy. 350 00:25:31,849 --> 00:25:37,880 It's just for our warmer audiences and we're talking about website visitors, people who engage with our social pages. 351 00:25:37,890 --> 00:25:39,300 Nothing too crazy here. 352 00:25:39,310 --> 00:25:45,530 What ends up happening is people consume more content from us and then they also make purchase and we also been profitable on that. 353 00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:53,319 So that ties to what I said again previously is don't disrespect your customers by not showing them content by not providing them content. 354 00:25:53,579 --> 00:25:56,069 Even your warm audiences who haven't really converted yet. 355 00:25:56,079 --> 00:26:04,469 If you have blog posts that are valuable for them, slap a couple of ads, let them consume that content and see if you're able to see a lift in the number of sales that you're getting. 356 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:10,869 So just to summarize here, once again, this is Google and Facebook working together, I wish was here. 357 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,609 So I could say you got to run Facebook ads alongside Google. 358 00:26:13,619 --> 00:26:22,209 Really just a one trick pony is just if you can get both, you've covered like 80 to 90% of the paid traffic platforms, at least at that point. 359 00:26:22,219 --> 00:26:25,520 That's why we focus on these two platforms and we expand after that. 360 00:26:25,530 --> 00:26:39,810 But the point is is our Google team started running Google Performance Macs with URL expansion on didn't really know what we were gonna get, but then ran ads for about a month or so. 361 00:26:39,819 --> 00:26:43,010 And then Nick and Rachna started to say, hey, wait a second here. 362 00:26:43,020 --> 00:26:48,750 URL expansion is actually sending people to what URL expansion does. 363 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:56,329 It says basically Google, send somebody on this performance match campaign to any page on the website and see what converts. 364 00:26:56,339 --> 00:27:08,489 So you're really putting the algorithm the 72 million data points on for a test for Google and saying, tell me what converts as opposed to thinking, you might have a blog post on your website. 365 00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:11,829 You're like, yeah, that's our best blog post, but it might be your best blog post. 366 00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:13,349 But is it the best converting? 367 00:27:13,530 --> 00:27:17,375 And that's what we found very quickly in this data? 368 00:27:17,425 --> 00:27:21,525 And that was just sort of a revelation unto itself. 369 00:27:21,535 --> 00:27:33,545 But then you took that knowledge and said, hey, why don't we do the same kind of now that we know what works in the general public for open targeting, you know, people who don't know who we are specific targeting on Google performance Macs. 370 00:27:33,685 --> 00:27:38,844 Let's take that same methodology over to the meta side of the equation and we started getting the same types of results. 371 00:27:39,104 --> 00:27:44,979 Yep, the art platforms definitely feed one and not do the insights you can get from one platform. 372 00:27:44,989 --> 00:27:50,489 You can definitely tweak them to the other a platform so they work together not against one another. 373 00:27:50,589 --> 00:27:59,170 And what's even cooler is that these blog post campaigns are backing out of the 1.15, which is, which is super nice. 374 00:27:59,375 --> 00:27:59,864 Yep. 375 00:28:00,125 --> 00:28:00,354 Absolutely. 376 00:28:01,145 --> 00:28:04,385 But once again, like on me, you're using, what's your website? 377 00:28:04,515 --> 00:28:06,574 What's your, I wanna say, website conversions. 378 00:28:06,584 --> 00:28:09,494 But I'm assuming that's the case, is it traffic objective? 379 00:28:09,505 --> 00:28:11,785 What objective are you using on those, on those ads? 380 00:28:11,795 --> 00:28:15,234 So, in this case, the team is using traffic, straight traffic. 381 00:28:15,635 --> 00:28:16,854 Nothing too crazy though. 382 00:28:17,025 --> 00:28:17,464 Yep. 383 00:28:17,655 --> 00:28:17,734 Ok. 384 00:28:18,204 --> 00:28:27,180 And getting people off Facebook obviously, and you will get what you ask for when you're setting up what your objective is exactly for me. 385 00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:29,530 And I think that's not to be lost on this whole thing. 386 00:28:29,540 --> 00:28:32,369 Some people are like, oh, well, it doesn't really matter what objective you use. 387 00:28:32,380 --> 00:28:33,510 It actually does matter. 388 00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:50,959 In our previous case study we were talking about, you know, some kind of signal, you know, for the charity that leads to a measure of intent and it might be a button click for a website conversion campaign, not a purchase or not an actual contribution, but some kind of middle ground, some soft conversion here. 389 00:28:50,969 --> 00:29:01,069 You just want them to go off Facebook and consume this blog post because you have data from your Google team that says if they consume this thing, they're gonna convert. 390 00:29:01,079 --> 00:29:01,510 Yep. 391 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:01,780 Yep. 392 00:29:01,790 --> 00:29:13,209 And also one note on the soft conversions, even if you do decide to not optimize for them, they can still give you insights on what kind of blog posts are leaning towards those soft conversions. 393 00:29:13,219 --> 00:29:18,369 Like what work best you can even launch like a traffic campaign but still have those soft conversions running. 394 00:29:18,430 --> 00:29:22,030 And then you can simply use that for reporting purposes and see what's working. 395 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:42,609 It doesn't mean like option A or point B. You can definitely see what's best for you, works for you, but you can definitely use those soft conversions again, not just to optimize but to also learn and see the behaviors on each blog post, which are huge insights, which just takes a little bit of time to go in and actually read the data and this is not to be lost. 396 00:29:42,619 --> 00:29:46,130 And I think that's one of the reasons why I asked the question to start off is what do you start off with? 397 00:29:46,140 --> 00:29:48,469 First, do you do this going in? 398 00:29:48,479 --> 00:29:57,780 Like if you're a brand new e-commerce company, you do this well, start with website conversion campaigns to start off with like get those people who are in market who are ready to buy. 399 00:29:58,130 --> 00:30:11,109 Maybe you maybe not like know your brand, get those easy conversions, but then that you reach a certain level of scale, you can certainly scale that through vertical scaling, which is just basically adding more money to the budget. 400 00:30:11,170 --> 00:30:23,619 You can do it with horizontal scaling, adding more look alikes or different interest targeting, changing up your messaging on your front end level one ads which is cold traffic ads to different avatars and different messaging for each one of those avatars. 401 00:30:23,630 --> 00:30:31,290 But at a certain point, there's people who are not in market for your stuff are not ready and you have to take them down this path. 402 00:30:31,300 --> 00:30:36,560 This customer acquisition path and content first is how we all consume. 403 00:30:36,569 --> 00:30:38,479 Like, think about the last thing that you just bought. 404 00:30:38,489 --> 00:30:45,280 I'm about to buy like a brand new gas powered blower here because I like our blower blows. 405 00:30:46,790 --> 00:30:47,189 Doesn't blow. 406 00:30:47,849 --> 00:30:53,709 What I'm finding is that like in my research, very few gas powered blowers now. 407 00:30:53,880 --> 00:31:01,849 And I'm doing research on electric blowers and which ones are the best one, which has the best battery life, which has the best battery. 408 00:31:01,859 --> 00:31:02,719 Should I get lithium? 409 00:31:02,729 --> 00:31:03,670 Should I get lithium ion? 410 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:04,030 Should I? 411 00:31:04,170 --> 00:31:12,540 Like, I'm in that stage right now where I'm gathering information, you know, I haven't made the purchase yet, but I've already done like six or seven Google Searches. 412 00:31:12,729 --> 00:31:16,900 I'm in that, in between stage and I'm starting to get some retargeting ads. 413 00:31:16,910 --> 00:31:19,530 Every time I go into Amazon, I see, you know, ads for blowers. 414 00:31:19,540 --> 00:31:21,180 I'm seeing it when I do Google searches. 415 00:31:21,189 --> 00:31:21,849 I get it. 416 00:31:21,949 --> 00:31:22,979 I understand. 417 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,300 But it's a natural progression. 418 00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:25,819 I'm not quite ready yet. 419 00:31:25,939 --> 00:31:29,250 Even if I'm in market, I still am doing research on it. 420 00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:30,619 So there is that too. 421 00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:38,344 It's like I am absolutely in market for, I don't even know if blower is the right word but lawns, I don't even know what it's called. 422 00:31:38,354 --> 00:31:40,734 But anyway, I'm gonna say it's a blower anyway. 423 00:31:40,744 --> 00:31:41,824 I'm in market for it. 424 00:31:41,834 --> 00:31:45,625 But I'm still doing research and I've already had like seven or eight or nine touch points. 425 00:31:45,635 --> 00:31:50,984 There is a great example of why this would work for even people who are in market to buy. 426 00:31:51,015 --> 00:31:52,454 Yeah, absolutely. 427 00:31:52,464 --> 00:31:53,564 Content is king. 428 00:31:53,574 --> 00:31:54,464 It is what it is. 429 00:31:54,474 --> 00:31:56,265 No matter how much you want to deny it. 430 00:31:56,275 --> 00:31:57,405 It is what it is. 431 00:31:57,415 --> 00:31:59,104 That's the long term approach. 432 00:31:59,369 --> 00:31:59,790 Yeah. 433 00:32:00,050 --> 00:32:07,229 And I think this is, this is cool and these are ads I think we can leave in the show notes as well because these are image ads really cool images. 434 00:32:07,239 --> 00:32:10,300 Lots of calls to action on the blog post itself. 435 00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:12,020 It's supplemented with a video too. 436 00:32:12,030 --> 00:32:14,030 So it's chunky, really good content. 437 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:21,540 We have plenty of people in here talking about the value of high value content on your site, 1000 plus words on this blog post. 438 00:32:21,550 --> 00:32:31,819 Like it's really helpful, useful information on the stuff that maybe is a precursor to them ultimately looking for a side gig or helping repair their own credit. 439 00:32:32,050 --> 00:32:37,800 And this is an area where Meta and Google like they have issues with from a policy standpoint. 440 00:32:37,810 --> 00:32:41,660 You guys are sort of navigating through that at the same time. 441 00:32:41,670 --> 00:32:43,550 Talk about that a bit more. 442 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,900 We just gave Zuck some money. 443 00:32:45,910 --> 00:32:46,890 That's all we did. 444 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:48,650 The important thing. 445 00:32:48,660 --> 00:32:52,890 We didn't need any money, we just gave him some love. 446 00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:53,410 That's it. 447 00:32:53,420 --> 00:33:01,890 He, he loved the important thing with this type of is to not make any exaggerated claims. 448 00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:03,109 Be soft though. 449 00:33:03,239 --> 00:33:05,229 Kind of go around the table a bit. 450 00:33:05,540 --> 00:33:08,280 I would say that's the biggest tip and be careful. 451 00:33:08,599 --> 00:33:10,430 This has nothing to do with affiliate marketing. 452 00:33:10,439 --> 00:33:13,420 I have no idea what it is and all the shady tactics. 453 00:33:13,479 --> 00:33:17,729 It's hard for guys like me and you who came from affiliate marketing to soften. 454 00:33:18,219 --> 00:33:18,849 Yes. 455 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:19,229 Yep. 456 00:33:19,589 --> 00:33:21,510 And we always want to go for the juggler. 457 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,550 You know, we have a place in hell, you know, like it is what it is. 458 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:26,790 We have nothing to lose. 459 00:33:27,270 --> 00:33:28,920 I've come to terms. 460 00:33:28,930 --> 00:33:33,020 I'm at peace with my past, very poor decisions, selling scammy products. 461 00:33:33,209 --> 00:33:35,140 It's made me a better marketer. 462 00:33:35,150 --> 00:33:36,660 It's given me some perspective. 463 00:33:36,670 --> 00:33:42,079 See, and even you, like you're touring now and you've got, you got a daughter and all this. 464 00:33:42,089 --> 00:33:43,459 It's just a natural evolution. 465 00:33:43,469 --> 00:33:45,739 But I, yeah, it's just a stage in life. 466 00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:46,119 Yep. 467 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:46,319 Yep. 468 00:33:47,959 --> 00:33:48,369 Oh my God. 469 00:33:48,380 --> 00:33:48,969 These are good. 470 00:33:48,979 --> 00:33:50,839 Well, this is awesome to have you back, man. 471 00:33:51,170 --> 00:33:52,229 Happy to be here. 472 00:33:52,530 --> 00:33:59,859 I super appreciate you taking time between uh dodging missiles, feeding babies and taking care of the family and running some Facebook ads and Google ads. 473 00:33:59,869 --> 00:34:03,000 In the meantime, the team that you have is pretty damn good. 474 00:34:03,010 --> 00:34:04,390 I think we're pretty proud of them. 475 00:34:05,189 --> 00:34:05,280 Absolutely. 476 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,449 Some call outs here for them as well. 477 00:34:07,459 --> 00:34:22,060 And like I said, we'll leave some links in the show notes for this stuff because I think it's just really, really important and like I said before, I mean, if you're not doing this to get to that next level of scale, you really are missing out and it's counterintuitive, especially from two reformed affiliate marketing guys here. 478 00:34:22,070 --> 00:34:29,600 It's hard for us to say, don't go for the sale on the first click, but in actuality, that's exactly what you should do once you reach a certain level of scale. 479 00:34:29,610 --> 00:34:36,100 So super appreciate you coming on here And of course, you can find out more about tier 11 over at tier 11 dot com. 480 00:34:36,110 --> 00:34:39,478 And we are hiring right now, we are actively hiring again. 481 00:34:39,489 --> 00:34:43,280 So check us out on tier 11 dot com forward slash jobs. 482 00:34:43,530 --> 00:34:52,639 Make our hr guy Josh, very, very happy because I would say like 90% of the people that work at Tier 11 came from this podcast, which is pretty cool. 483 00:34:53,188 --> 00:35:00,850 So yeah, right now we're hiring for a customer success person, which is a super important part of all of what we do here. 484 00:35:00,889 --> 00:35:04,679 So definitely check that out at tier 11 dot com forward slash jobs. 485 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:10,959 And of course, subscribe to the show here and leave a rating wherever you are listening. 486 00:35:10,969 --> 00:35:14,489 We are pretty much everywhere and fast climbing up the charts. 487 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:17,580 Our goal is to be the number one marketing podcast in the universe. 488 00:35:17,780 --> 00:35:25,689 And I'm not sure how you measure that universe wise, but certainly does help for Apple itunes podcasts and everything else where we're at. 489 00:35:25,699 --> 00:35:31,060 So tell us what we can do better over at perpetual traffic dot com forward slash better. 490 00:35:31,110 --> 00:35:33,129 Follow me over on linkedin. 491 00:35:33,139 --> 00:35:39,360 I'm pretty active over there and you can probably follow Kassum at slam on Twitter even though he missed today's episode. 492 00:35:39,429 --> 00:35:43,379 Go back and listen to episodes and check out our youtube channel too. 493 00:35:43,389 --> 00:35:44,800 We'll leave a link to that. 494 00:35:44,939 --> 00:35:45,939 It's pretty cool. 495 00:35:45,949 --> 00:35:47,520 There's like there's a bunch of them. 496 00:35:47,530 --> 00:35:51,639 So it's the one with, there's the one with man smiling face. 497 00:35:51,649 --> 00:35:59,620 We'll leave a link to that in the show notes and like I said, all the show notes and all the stuff we mentioned here are over at perpetual traffic dot com. 498 00:35:59,629 --> 00:36:07,250 So on behalf of the, what's working now co-host for the week, Kobe Topez. 499 00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:09,280 Until next show. 500 00:36:09,790 --> 00:36:12,800 See you, boom. 501 00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:19,429 You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.