[0:00:00] Natalie Jennings: We're rolling. You can hear me?

[0:00:03] Audrey Nicole: Can you hear me?

[0:00:04] Natalie Jennings: I can. We're winning.

[0:00:08] Audrey Nicole: Step one.

[0:00:09] Natalie Jennings: Oh, my God. Today has been we are podcasters. It's been a strange couple of weeks, that is for sure. Today's the two week anniversary, actually. No. Yesterday was today's. Thursday. I don't even know what day it is.

[0:00:28] Audrey Nicole: I don't either, because last week was such a well, my daughter had four days of no school, two that were planned and two that were snow days, and I just don't even know where I am anymore. Oh, yeah, that's right.

[0:00:38] Natalie Jennings: The weather was bananas.

[0:00:40] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, she was with me for, like, 90 days straight. Rationing our food, surviving bonkers. But it's Thursday, I think.

[0:00:51] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, it's Thursday. Okay, great. Good to know. Well, and we're not as busy in this sense of physically going out and shooting this time of year, so it's much easier to lose track of time for me because I'm like, oh, I have, like, one shoot.

[0:01:09] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, this is a little too slow for me. Like, I need it for a while, but then I'm like, okay, I can't float around anymore without structure. I need more. Which I probably just implement myself in my own daily routine, but I struggle with that sometimes. Yeah, I'm a floater kind of person.

[0:01:29] Natalie Jennings: Oh, big time. Me too. I mean, I do actually get a lot of stuff done, but I also can get so much more done if I have to get it done.

[0:01:39] Audrey Nicole: Yes. Isn't that just the way it is?

[0:01:42] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. Okay. So we were going to talk a little bit about grief and running a business, because I think we think that's important, and I think that's important for me. My sweet little puppers died very suddenly a couple of weeks ago, literally the day after we last recorded.

[0:02:03] Audrey Nicole: Okay.

[0:02:03] Natalie Jennings: Because I'm not sure what's come out yet, but there's definitely mention of her kind of being loud and me having to get her out of it.

[0:02:12] Audrey Nicole: I remember she was in the room and chewing on her bone, and you're like, okay, we're going to go out of the room now.

[0:02:19] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, she had a little cookie that she was very excited. Anyone that knows me knows that she was a huge, huge part of my life, especially not having kiddos. And not to disparage anyone that loses a pet and has kiddos, but it's been very empty without her. It's like, quiet. It's just extra quiet. And it's been very sad because she was kind of like a person. Well, you met her. She was a very bright dog and a very present dog. She was the best not dopey. She was very interactive with their humans and very smart. So that was, I think, part of the connection where you're just like, you feel like you kind of lost a whole person, but not really.

[0:03:04] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, no. Having two cats, I feel like when I say it like, oh, the day my cat I lose my cat. So it'll be like, horrible. But it sounds like kind of like, oh, it's not that big of a deal. But it just is. Some of us just really connect and love our pets.

[0:03:23] Natalie Jennings: And it comes down to that love language thing, which is really interesting. This is a conversation I had with my therapist a while back about the containers. That idea of love language is like a good place to start, but if you sort of think of them like French, Spanish, English, whatever, and then within those buckets, there's like dialects, there's like nuanced versions of it. But one thing that has always been my thing in terms of connecting my language is like quality time. So there's like, words of affirmation, there's gifts, there's physical touch, quality time. I can't remember the other one, but mine has always been like quality time. And what we've figured out is that I like to use words or time with somebody to really have a heartfelt connection, like a warm, fuzzy right, when I can share that with someone, whether that's a laugh or just like, you're out for coffee and you can kind of really empathize and feel what they're feeling. And again, that translates so directly and vibrantly with animals because they're nonverbal. So it's like you're picking up on kind of how they feel. And I think everyone has the capacity to connect deeply with animals, but my actual way I've been wired to connect is like this deep vibrational, kind of nonverbal way. So when I was telling her about how bummed out I was, she's like, well, that's your that connection for you was very sharp, where if someone who has a pet and loses a pet, that maybe that's not their way that they most connect, like they're sad. It's probably going to be that group of people that are like, oh, sorry, it'll be fine, and that's fine. We're all different. I'm not saying everyone has to be deeply empathic. I've definitely in all the amazing support, like, notes and little stories and photos and stuff people have sent.

[0:05:17] Natalie Jennings: Like, there's definitely and you share this with me, like, that deep connection. Those people are like, oh, I totally get this. I really get this. And I also understand that some people won't get it. And I'm like, oh, yes.

[0:05:36] Audrey Nicole: 100%. I definitely got it.

[0:05:40] Natalie Jennings: I'm reading this book on grief, and I think the important thing with anybody that's grieving anything, whether it's a job or a relationship or a death or a pet or whatever, is so nonlinear. That's the first thing that I've been reminded of. And I've read about this before in other times I've gone through grief. But it's going to be like this cycle that kind of comes and goes forever. So encouraging people not to be like, oh, you haven't gotten over it yet. I think that's something in our society we really need to remedy because it is not helpful.

[0:06:13] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, grief is so weird. We were just saying that too, before we hopped on my current relationship with grief. Is that a little over a year ago? Was it a little over a year ago? Yeah, fall of 21, my long term relationship ended pretty suddenly and not in a fun way, just hours before I was set to go photograph a wedding. So I had to compartmentalize that very quickly and get through the wedding, which, thank God you were my second shooter for that wedding because I needed a strong support in that day and you just really stepped up and helped me get through it. But yeah, since then it's been over a year. And the initial few months were obviously like the most horrible months of my life. I didn't even know how I could function. But then I pulled through that, and then you suddenly think, oh, I'm better because you're feeling better. But then it just is not linear. Like you said. It comes and it goes and it changes and it's weird. And here I am over a year later in the last week. I started having some nightmares again about things.

[0:07:37] Audrey Nicole: And it's just like, oh, again, I thought I did all this already.

[0:07:43] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, I mean, processing a deep emotional bond with anything is a process. And that whole your body knows the score or whatever that book is the idea that I think we're so conditioned to think that we work out all of our trauma and our grief and everything in our head when our body holds so much of it. And sometimes it's like a pressure cooker. Sometimes you're just like it's like, where did that come from? Why did I just blurt out and start crying or whatever? Or whatever.

[0:08:16] Audrey Nicole: But it's like, weird. I'm just like I'm in a normal situation. Suddenly I have to turn around because I'm crying and I'm like, don't want anyone to see. I'm like, I want to go to the bathroom really quick.

[0:08:29] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, it's like grief just will sneak up on you and tap you on the shoulder when you're just doing the most normal things and you turn and you're like, oh, God, it's you again. Why.

[0:08:43] Audrey Nicole: Not now?

[0:08:44] Natalie Jennings: And, I mean, I'm in the very early stages of big loss of a presence in my life and routine and all that kind of stuff. But I was telling you, like, years ago, both of my grandmothers passed a day apart, which is already a wild experience. But that grief was so nonlinear, and it still is. I mean, there's still moments where you're just like it taps you on the shoulder and then you need to release. And I think my point is that we're going to tie this back to how it affects running your own business and being like the person that has to have a face in your business when things like this happen. But it's just having grace and understanding. I want to put more of a voice around not judging other people's grief because it's so different for everybody. There's no formula. And I think Kubler Ross was talking about the five stages and all of that, and specifically, this was not meant to be like a linear formula. You go through this, shouldn't you be at this part of it now? That's not how it works. They're just containers to recognize what might be happening, but it doesn't mean that they're going to happen in a start to finish fashion. And I think it's nobody's fault that our society is like that. But I just really wanted to talk about this today because it's not something we're very good at in our society. And I think recognizing that it's nonlinear and that everybody goes through it a little bit differently is important.

[0:10:13] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, totally. And different situations will affect people differently, too. Is my grief comparable to losing a child? No, I don't think so. But there are parts of my breakup that I think were very devastating to me for certain reasons because of past experiences in my life, story and stuff, whereas they may not have been so devastating for someone else.

[0:10:39] Natalie Jennings: Absolutely.

[0:10:40] Audrey Nicole: So if you've gone through a breakup and you're like, I was over it in three months and dating someone else, it's like, that is good for you. And I mean that. But for me, that was not what my story was, and that's okay. I'm not wrong, and I'm not clinging to it because of that.

[0:10:57] Natalie Jennings: I think you brought up a perfect point, is that I don't think naturally, it's going to be probably on the spectrum of most devastating is when people lose children or multiple family members all at once, like in an accident or something. I don't even know what that has to be like. But taking out the comparison aspect of it, I know that my losing a dog isn't as bad as XYZ or whatever. I think recognizing when people are going through grief, whether it's they got fired or they had to move to a different apartment or they ended a relationship or maybe a friend is ghosting them. There's so many different types. Of grief. And grief in all of its forms is really hard and it really leaches into your everyday functioning, no matter what type of grief it is. I was telling you when I got divorced, my ex husband is named Paul the week after we split, and he moved out, and we were amicable, but it was still devastating and very sad and a lot of grief. The wedding that I photo was a couple named Natalie and Paul. And even now, when I told you about it, I was like, it's comical because it's so on the nose. You're like?

[0:12:08] Audrey Nicole: Yeah.

[0:12:08] Natalie Jennings: Really? It's rude, really.

[0:12:10] Audrey Nicole: And I remember, how dare the universe do that to you?

[0:12:16] Natalie Jennings: But maybe oh, God, a whole day of Natalie and Paul and Natalie and paul and Natalie and Paul. And I was like, I want to quit my job right now.

[0:12:25] Audrey Nicole: But you can't, because we're tying this back to photography. You got to show up and perform, and it's backing up a little bit. I think there are definitely instances where you would be well within your right to be like, I need to have somebody step in for me. For sure, you're human first, but then there's times, like, in my situation where I was like, no, I for sure need to be there. But I was dying inside, and I just had to really not think about it. But I guess thinking about things for anyone else that finds themselves in that situation, what could help? The biggest one that helped me was just having a support system with me that day. That was amazing. Which was you.

[0:13:09] Natalie Jennings: Yeah.

[0:13:09] Audrey Nicole: Because you're someone that is so talented at weddings. I knew that you could just do the whole wedding if you needed to, but I would never have done that to you. You definitely stepped in more than I would have a second shooter step in, because sometimes my brain was just not it just was not functioning 100%.

[0:13:26] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. And actually, if I can cut you off right there, that's something to keep in mind. If there's someone grieving in your life, there's a fog. There's like a fog. You're, like, kind of in a different dimension, and you're wearing a lead suit and you're tired, and you're just not functioning properly. Especially, like, the early deep grief. It's very physical. So if someone you know is going through something and they're just not returning your texts or they're just being weird at work, it's weird to observe, because I was watching myself kind of be like, whoa, I am out of it. And I still kind of am. It's only been just a couple of weeks, and I'm just adjusting to this new rhythm, and it's very exhausting.

[0:14:08] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, it's wild. It really is wild. I was very aware of myself, too, during it all. Like God. This is insane. And you said it's physical. I lost half my hair.

[0:14:21] Natalie Jennings: Wow.

[0:14:21] Audrey Nicole: Two or three months after this happened, half my hair started falling.

[0:14:25] Natalie Jennings: Oh, my God.

[0:14:26] Audrey Nicole: My stylist noticed. She's like, oh. Because then it started to grow back a few months later, and she's like, you have a ton of new hair growing in. I'm like, I know, because it all fell out.

[0:14:37] Natalie Jennings: Wow.

[0:14:38] Audrey Nicole: And, like, panic attacks in the night, which I'd never really dealt with before. Just like, you keep it inside, but it'll find its way through your pores.

[0:14:48] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. Well, and just having again, having grace for that with other people you're dealing with in the world. And you were saying, like, it was helpful to have support, and I was saying to you earlier, the most helpful thing is just either sharing memories or just people saying, I'm thinking of you. And one of the things that comes up a lot with grief is like, what do I say to someone who's grieving? How do I be with someone who's grieving? And I think not trying to fix it would be the first thing that I would recommend for anybody that has to support someone who's grieving is like the platitudes of like, they're in a better place or everything happens for a reason. Those are all well intentioned, and we've all said stuff probably that has not gone over well with a grieving person. But just letting someone know that you're there and if they need anything, you're there. And sharing a memory or whatever, but not trying to fix it, I think has been really key because for someone, especially if someone has passed away, even just a dog. I've talked to so many people in the last two weeks, and it's like, if everyone was asking, like, can you tell me what happened? You have to answer the same question so many times that it's actually physically exhausting. So the people that have just been like, I'm here if you need me, I'm thinking of you and you've done that. It's like, oh, good, I don't have to respond, but I'm supported.

[0:16:14] Audrey Nicole: And adding on to that something that always helped me is just knowing that I was seen. Someone just acknowledging, like, I know what you're going through is probably so hard, and I see that and I'm so sorry even later on too, because once I got through those first few hard months of it, I think people just were like, oh, she's normal again. I'm like, I was so far from normal, I actually got worse and worse and worse. But I felt like it was too late. I'd already told everyone I was normal again, and everybody thought I was. So I lost some support that I probably really needed. But I don't know, once you go through something like that, you are opened to the ways that other people in your life have probably really hurt in their grief process.

[0:17:05] Natalie Jennings: Yes.

[0:17:06] Audrey Nicole: And it makes you more aware and a better friend for when something else comes up in the future.

[0:17:16] Natalie Jennings: It's so important to recognize that there isn't. I mean, this is a big thing I've been reading in my grief books, but they're very helpful and they give a lot. Like I said, I've gone through grief before, but it's helpful to revisit. It just feels comforting to be seen. So folks that write these books are kind of providing that for you, but also just remembering that it is not a linear process. And I think the most toxic thing regarding grief that our culture provides for us is like, just a lack of compassion and like, this deadline idea, like, oh, well, it's been a year. I mean, you should really be over that by now. And it's like, that's not anyone's place to judge. Some people may get through grief and heal way quicker than other people. And it's attached to so many other circumstances and so many other things. If your friend or your family member or someone close to you is sad about something that happened a while ago, don't judge it. Don't be like, oh, you're still sad about your cat. I'm going to be sad forever.

[0:18:23] Audrey Nicole: I will be.

[0:18:24] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. So I think that's really important. I mean, I've talked about how I miscarried very late. This was like eleven years ago, but I still struggle at baby showers. There's times where it just pops up and you're like, oh God, I got to go. And it's never going to go away. It's never going to go away. I don't feel like I have a lead suit on. And I'm like emotionally in a fog over that because that phase of it I have come through. But when it taps you on the shoulder, it can be anytime, anywhere. And again, this is over a decade ago, and I think just recognizing that is important. But when it comes to business, we were going to try and tie this into being business owners, but God, all I can think of is like, do everything you can to take care of yourself. So if you don't have to take on extra work, don't. If you can shorten your work day, do it. If you can even have someone help you with something or even give work away, just do whatever you need to do because and I'm not saying like, curl up in your bed and never leave your house.

[0:19:29] Natalie Jennings: It's helped me to get out a little bit, but short bursts, like real short bursts, like, I'm going to go do a quick little thing and then come home. And usually that's all the energy I have.

[0:19:40] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, it's not really like you change a ton about your actual business, but you have to just really take care of you, the human, and move through it, which you can't run from it. You just have to feel it and move through it and work through it. I did so many different things. I pulled tarot cards daily. I journaled like I've never journaled before because I just had to get it all out. I leaned on my friends. I'd be like, I need a friend right now. I would just actually say that, which is not something I normally do a ton, which I should probably should do more. But I went to therapy. I took like three showers a day because it just felt good. And it just was a few moments of just peace and quiet and yeah, all these things. There's a quote that I read shortly after all that happened that I just loved about grief. That was something like, grief is love. Souvenir it's proof that you loved once.

[0:20:50] Natalie Jennings: Yeah.

[0:20:50] Audrey Nicole: So grief sucks big time. But you wouldn't have grief if you didn't have love.

[0:20:58] Natalie Jennings: Oh, absolutely. A friend, a wise, dear friend, of mine told me. She's like, the depth of your sorrow is just a measure of your love. And I was like, you're so smart. There's a roomy quote that came up in this book I'm reading that is the healing from the pain is in the pain. That just hit me. It really struck me because it's like, oh, my gosh, I'm in so much pain. But that's also part of the healing process. It's like cleaning out the wound in a way. And there really isn't a great way to run from it where it's not going to running from it. It's going to manifest in health problems and probably in the way you interact with it's, going to catch up with you, I guess, is probably the best way of putting it. Not that we're experts here, we're not therapists, but just in my own experience and what I've read, I think it's helpful to be reminded of that because it's okay to be in pain over something for a long, long time, forever if you want that's. Okay. You can be sad, and you don't have to be over it, but you should be working to heal yourself. That's your only responsibility.

[0:22:10] Audrey Nicole: Totally. I think I understood that too, last year. And just everything I've ever read about grief and pain and hurt is like, you have to walk through it. You have to walk through. And it's like, I don't want to, but I was in pain, but I was in so much pain, and I'm like, I never want to go through this ever again. So I think the only way that I can ensure that happens is if I do walk through it and heal and observe myself and the things I did that got me to this point. And just all of it just, like, completely a complete deconstruction. I don't know what the word is, but you just fall apart and look at it all and you're like, all right, let's get back together now.

[0:22:55] Natalie Jennings: Yeah.

[0:22:56] Audrey Nicole: I could have not done that. I could have avoided it. I could have distracted myself. I could have hopped into a new relationship right after, but I wanted to never feel that way again.

[0:23:10] Natalie Jennings: It's all so different for everyone. But I think you're right that the determination to heal is because it's not something you want to experience over and.

[0:23:21] Audrey Nicole: Over, and that my situation is different than losing a loved one, because it's like a thing that I had some control over. So it's not like you can avoid losing people you love, right? Yeah. And that's the other thing about grief, is it's not just like, oh, I lost someone. I am sad for that. It's like a million different things. We were just talking about this, where now your whole routine and habits change. The things that you have to think about, like, oh, I have to get home because I was home. Just all the things change when you lose something in life.

[0:23:56] Natalie Jennings: Yes.

[0:23:57] Audrey Nicole: So just a million griefs that you grieve, not just one.

[0:24:02] Natalie Jennings: Yes, and I think people do associate grief with death, but like I said earlier, it can be so many different things that we're grieving. Like your house could burn down that's massive grief or like, you lose your job or I mean, I don't know, whatever. I mean, there's so many ways to grieve. And I think if you're in a, you know, from a business perspective, you don't have to be digging into the details. But I think it's useful if you have an assistant or like you and I do this podcast. I think it's useful to alert people to the fact, like, hey, I'm in a little bit of grief right now, or I'm in a lot of grief right now. Just saying that is enough because pretending that you don't have it or being self conscious that you've had it too long is not healthy. And I think, again, I'm very upset at our culture in that way, and I really just want to I'm delighted to share the message over and over and over again. Like, look, just give some compassion to folks. I mean, people are grieving forever, like, many people are never going to not be, and you might catch them on a good day, but just recognizing that that it's not just this start and stop thing and that if people aren't over it, there's something wrong with them or something that's just so toxic and so not helpful.

[0:25:20] Audrey Nicole: Yeah. I feel the same over this last year, I felt the same anger towards the culture because I felt this outside pressure by nobody in particular, but just the society of like, okay, I need to get it together now and hold it together. And I barely held it together, but I pretended like I held it together until to go even deeper in it. I just completely couldn't anymore. And this last fall had got really low and had to finally be like, I'm not doing okay. I'm doing much better now.

[0:25:54] Natalie Jennings: Yeah.

[0:25:55] Audrey Nicole: And I like that you said sharing with people, you don't have to share details by any means. Keeping your privacy, not being extremely vulnerable is totally within your right. But maybe letting folks know that I'm walking through a little bit of grief right now, so I'm having so and so help me out with some things or I'm not scheduling things for this time or whatever the boundaries are that you need to set.

[0:26:25] Natalie Jennings: Yeah.

[0:26:26] Audrey Nicole: Have the right to be a human and live the human experience and not put your business before all that.

[0:26:34] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. Again, we have to run our businesses. So just communicating like basic things like that I think is really helpful, and that's all you really have to do. And hopefully your team or your people are going to be understanding of that. Hopefully we all are. Again, I wish there's more support for people that are grieving because it's also, like, a thread that's very thinly connected. So grief is going to trigger past grief and blah, blah, blah. It's all stored somewhere, and if it hasn't been let out the first time, it's going to get let out later.

[0:27:10] Audrey Nicole: And it probably won't be nice.

[0:27:12] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, well, my divorce triggered a ton of stuff I hadn't worked through with losing a late term baby. I thought when I was going through some of the therapy and stuff that I did that I was like, okay, I'm here to work through my divorce. And it was like, oh, no, you're not. That's not why you're here. Surprise. We're going to work through this. And you start really like, the grief just decides to just show up again. It's like a jack in the Box little kind of energy. You're like, Where did you come from? Come on. Whack of hell, man. Yeah. What are you doing here? This is not the agreement that you are still here. But yeah, I think it's just all of that.

[0:28:02] Natalie Jennings: So if there's someone in your life where you're like, god, they've been really something wrong with that. Good Lord. More compassion, people. Sorry, that's just me.

[0:28:12] Audrey Nicole: No, it's valid. Sometimes I do the same thing where I'm like, they were crabby, but then I'm like, I have zero idea what they're going through. Maybe they literally just lost somebody they loved and they're just not right right now. Or someone's driving way too slow. Well, maybe they're just lost in their thought at the moment because they lost somebody or something happened. You just have zero idea. Stay curious. They open.

[0:28:41] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. Curiosity. Yeah. What might this be? Some people are just jerks. Like, fair enough, but the way I showed up in the world the first couple of days after all this happened was a total fog. Like, when I went to the grocery store, I was just like, thanks. I just didn't have the energy. Your body is protecting you from total meltdown is what it is. You actually don't have the capacity to show up in a normal way. You're in a different one of the book says it's literally like an altered state of consciousness, right? So you're not fully you or there. And when people think of how many strangers you've run across or people in the world that, like you said, are like, driving weird or rude ish or whatever, and it's like, if you can just be curious, I wonder what's going on with them instead of like, asshole. That's my whole thought.

[0:29:37] Audrey Nicole: One other thing that just popped in my head, talking about grief. Like, sometimes you're not the one with grief coming into a session or a wedding, but sometimes it's the people you're photographing. And that can be interesting too. I just did a session a couple of weeks ago that was like an end of life session, a family session. Their dad is on hospice. And it was so beautiful to be in there. It was sacred moment. This family gathered together for Sunday brunch. They were playing cards. They were just trying to have a normal Sunday, one of the last few. And to be invited into that space. I mean, there's not really words for that. That's so special to be able to hold people's grief and then turn something beautiful out of it that can bring them peace later on. It's wild. It's such an honor.

[0:30:39] Natalie Jennings: Yes, totally. I think that's a great point is recognizing that you are going to be working with grief probably more often than you realize. There's grief at weddings all the time for people that can't be there. There's chairs placed for so and so that passed and it's really raw for people in those moments and just being aware of it, at least you still have to do your job or first time mothers that have really been trying really hard to have. And there's also a lot of grief there from children that aren't able to be there because they lost them or whatever. I mean, there's so many instances every day in our lifestyle work that just remembering that sometimes people want photos during really grief laden times, I guess is.

[0:31:34] Audrey Nicole: The phrase that comes up and afterwards.

[0:31:38] Natalie Jennings: Yes.

[0:31:39] Audrey Nicole: I had a wedding last season that a week after the wedding, their mom suddenly collapsed and was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Like, no idea. At the wedding, I took a ton of beautiful pictures of mom. So I was immediately contacted by the bride and she was like, please save every single photo, even the bad ones. And their mom passed away a month later. And I've had many clients come back to me of like, I'm so glad you got pictures of my grandparents. I'm so glad you got pictures of this because this is one of our last ones. Yeah, we do important work.

[0:32:15] Natalie Jennings: Yes. And wedding photographers will probably have experienced that. It's happened to me also many times where it's like, oh, this is the last good picture we have. Yeah. I try to remind people not in an overt, like in your face way, but I do try to remind people that there's other great reasons to do photos that might be something you want to bring into your work. When's the last time you had great photos with your parents or with for me, for example? I had someone do photos with me and my dog and it was like that was shout out to Corey Miller, who we both know. But Corey and I swapped sessions because her dog was ill a few years ago. And so having those photos are like they're like my favorite photos. But I was usually the one taking the photos, so there weren't really that many of me and her and the ones that I do have now, I'm like, oh my God, these are the best. So just kind of remembering. Yeah, all of it. It's a big part of being a human being, grief. And I think we try to ignore it. And I think I wanted to talk about this today just as a business owner and stuff, to just let people know that we all go through it.

[0:33:28] Natalie Jennings: And it's okay to go through it as long as you need to go through it. And you don't have to tell everyone exactly what you're going through, but just let folks know. Don't be afraid to say, hey, I'm in it right now. Can you help? Or can I just put that deadline off or whatever?

[0:33:47] Audrey Nicole: Yeah, there's a lot of people who really care too. That's something I've had to make myself aware of when I felt like I needed support and wasn't getting it. A lot of it had to do with me not reaching out for support and when I would I mean, there's so many people that really care. Yeah, really do. Being a human is weird.

[0:34:16] Natalie Jennings: It's a lot. So for all of you that are grieving or have gone through it, just sending you a little love and hopefully giving you permission that you maybe haven't given yourself to take a break if you need it. That's one of the interesting things I found in my work with Tarot, is, I think, just telling people, oh, this is what the cards say, and them reflecting back on it, it gives folks an odd permission. I don't know what that is, that we sometimes it's like we crave permission to do something, and then once we have it, we're like, all over it, all over that opportunity. But for some reason, we have a hard time granting ourselves permission, like permission to heal, permission to rest, permission to say no. And I'm just giving you permission on this podcast. Like, it's okay. Do all of those things if you need to.

[0:35:14] Audrey Nicole: It's okay to not be okay. Yeah, just don't get stuck in the not okay.

[0:35:21] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, I mean, that was a message, and I think we can wrap it with this. The responsibility to heal, you are the only one that can do that for yourself. You can have all the support in the world, but really, there is a responsibility to yourself, really, to try and heal, to go through the grieving process. And that's a long process, and sometimes it's an unending process, but just like anything, just like anything in life, you are the one that makes it happen. Stuff doesn't just happen to you. I mean, once in a while, people inherit some money or something, but for the most part, whether it's health or mental wellness or work or money or relationships, it really does take you are the common denominator, I think. And I think it feels good. I think for me, part of the feeling good part is taking responsibility for the healing. And like you said, journaling or taking a million showers or just crying or sleeping more, whatever.

[0:36:29] Audrey Nicole: It's empowering too. But I definitely learned that lesson this last year. Nobody could come swoop in and fix it for me. I had to be the one to make myself better. But then once I realized I could, then it's like, oh, well, I can just do just about freaking anything. Then, yeah, I can heal myself and make myself feel better. I mean, obviously you need outside support to help with that, but yeah, it's powerful.

[0:36:58] Natalie Jennings: Well, I think we should wrap it right there. And thank you all for listening. And that's it. I think that's all we got.

[0:37:07] Audrey Nicole: Yes, we're thinking of you. If you're walking through grief, you're not alone.

[0:37:11] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, absolutely. And we'll be back next week. Thanks. Idri. Yes.

[0:37:17] Audrey Nicole: Bye. I had to leave it with a one liner that was, like, real smart.