1
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:17,990
So, before we start today's episode, just remember that although I am a
attorney, I am not your attorney and I am not offering you legal advice in
today's episode.

2
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,710
This episode and all of my episodes are informational and educational only.

3
00:00:22,710 --> 00:00:27,060
It is not a substitute for seeking out your own advice from your own lawyer.

4
00:00:27,060 --> 00:00:29,880
And please keep in mind that I can't offer you legal advice.

5
00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,990
I don't ever offer any legal services, but I think I offer some pretty good
information.

6
00:00:35,460 --> 00:00:41,160
One more thing before we get started, also remember that I am based in the
United States, so that's what I'll focus on today.

7
00:00:41,190 --> 00:00:43,440
With that, let's actually get into it.

8
00:00:49,730 --> 00:00:52,840
Hey there, and welcome to a brand new episode of On Your Terms.

9
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,290
I'm your host, Sam Vander Wielen.

10
00:00:54,290 --> 00:01:02,990
I'm an attorney turned entrepreneur who helps online coaches and creatives
legally protect and grow their online businesses using my DIY legal templates.

11
00:01:02,990 --> 00:01:06,940
I also just so happen to be in the process of writing my own book.

12
00:01:06,950 --> 00:01:08,900
I'm at the beginning stages.

13
00:01:08,900 --> 00:01:11,050
I am working on my book proposal.

14
00:01:11,050 --> 00:01:15,500
And I haven't shared this too much yet, but I'm so excited to be working on it.

15
00:01:15,530 --> 00:01:17,570
It's been quite the adventure.

16
00:01:17,570 --> 00:01:27,410
And I've always wanted to write a book, but I held back because I had all kinds
of ideas about what I needed to have in place first before I was ever able to
write a book,

17
00:01:27,410 --> 00:01:34,520
not to mention all the mindset issues and imposter syndrome and all the things
that came up thinking like, "Who am I to tell my story?

18
00:01:34,550 --> 00:01:35,810
Will anyone care?

19
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,210
People have told this story before, it's not interesting.

20
00:01:38,210 --> 00:01:41,240
What if no one buys it?" All of the things.

21
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:42,880
If you've thought it, I've probably thought it too.

22
00:01:42,890 --> 00:01:45,380
So, you're definitely not alone.

23
00:01:45,380 --> 00:01:48,710
But I kind of had this, like, wild series of events earlier this year.

24
00:01:48,710 --> 00:01:58,670
I'm not like Super Woo, but I'm open to woo things, and I actually scheduled a
chart reading with an astrological therapist, actually,

25
00:01:58,670 --> 00:02:00,190
believe it or not, in New York City.

26
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:07,220
And she actually brought up the fact that I was meant to share my story in the
form of a book and that it was also meant to be published.

27
00:02:07,220 --> 00:02:12,390
It wasn't something that was meant to be like writing in a journal and locked up
for only me to see.

28
00:02:12,390 --> 00:02:17,660
And I thought that was so interesting because I hadn't said anything about it,
and that has always been a hope and a dream of mine.

29
00:02:17,660 --> 00:02:27,530
I actually explored the idea years ago, but the person that I spoke to at the
time shut it down pretty quickly because I had, like, 800 Instagram followers at
the time, and she said, "Forget it," which,

30
00:02:27,530 --> 00:02:32,150
by the way, you'll hear about in this episode about whether or not that's
actually correct advice.

31
00:02:32,150 --> 00:02:39,110
But I buried the idea at that time, and so I hadn't brought it up to this 
person in my chart reading.

32
00:02:39,110 --> 00:02:48,530
But she also said that, not only would I write a book and would it be
published, but that I would fall into this process through an organic connection
.

33
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,280
That it wouldn't be something I'd have to fight for really hard or something
like this.

34
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,240
And so, I thought that was so interesting.

35
00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:04,000
And what do you know? A few days later, I was talking with a friend named Jen 
Racioppi, and we were talking about her book that she just came out with.

36
00:03:04,010 --> 00:03:07,460
And I said, "You know, I really want to write a book.

37
00:03:07,490 --> 00:03:10,880
Do you have any recommendation on where to start?" And she said, "Yes.

38
00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:12,110
I'll tell you where to start.

39
00:03:12,110 --> 00:03:22,070
You need to start by talking with Richelle Fredson." I was like, "Who is
Richelle?" And Jen connected me with Richelle and, bada bing, bada boom, 
Richelle is now my book consultant, my book coach,

40
00:03:22,070 --> 00:03:24,950
and we are working on this book proposal together.

41
00:03:24,950 --> 00:03:27,870
I'm writing the proposal with Richelle's help.

42
00:03:27,890 --> 00:03:31,460
And it has just been an amazing process.

43
00:03:31,460 --> 00:03:39,380
But I really wanted to bring you this episode with Richelle today because I
wanted to create an episode that I wish that I could have heard before.

44
00:03:39,830 --> 00:03:49,520
For the person who has always had this feeling, this intuition that they were
meant to write a book, or you just have a genuine interest in writing and
telling your story and expressing

45
00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,050
yourself in that way, but you also really don't know where to start.

46
00:03:53,050 --> 00:04:02,990
And you might have heard so many different things like, "You have to
self-publish your first book." Or, "If you self-publish, you'll never be able to
get published in a traditional way again."

47
00:04:03,410 --> 00:04:04,780
There are all these things.

48
00:04:04,780 --> 00:04:10,670
Even about your social following, you might have heard like, "You have to have a
huge following in order to do this."

49
00:04:10,670 --> 00:04:18,680
So, I wanted to bring you the real deal from a trusted, trusted expert and
resource, which Richelle most certainly is.

50
00:04:18,710 --> 00:04:28,670
So, in this episode, Richelle and I talk a lot about the confusion around
writing a book, some of the myths, and we demystify a lot of the things that
people think about, what

51
00:04:28,670 --> 00:04:30,860
you need to do to write a book, and all of that.

52
00:04:31,250 --> 00:04:40,340
We talk about Richelle's experience and how all the different pieces of her
career led to her having the book consulting business that she has today.

53
00:04:40,370 --> 00:04:49,130
I really love that as an example of seeing how your prior experiences play into
what you do now and how nothing is a wasted experience, because I believe in
that so strongly.

54
00:04:49,670 --> 00:04:53,780
And she tells us what a book coach is and what they really do for you.

55
00:04:53,780 --> 00:04:58,370
Like, the different types of book coaches that you can reach out to and who
needs one.

56
00:04:58,370 --> 00:05:08,360
We also break down the three different types of book publishing, so from
self-publishing, to the hybrid model, to traditional publishing, which I knew
nothing about and Richelle was so

57
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,620
helpful. And she really breaks it down for you so beautifully in this episode.

58
00:05:12,620 --> 00:05:17,090
Also, I think the gold is in the middle of this episode, where she gives us
three things that people should do now.

59
00:05:17,090 --> 00:05:24,190
If you know that you someday want to write a book or if you're just starting
out and you want to write a book, she tells you the three things exactly what
you should do.

60
00:05:24,190 --> 00:05:30,980
She talks to you about some of the biggest changes and shifts in the book
industry, whether you really need a big following, everything in between.

61
00:05:30,980 --> 00:05:33,350
I just thought this was such a great episode.

62
00:05:33,590 --> 00:05:36,710
It's actually my first guest episode that I've ever recorded.

63
00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:41,720
And I was so excited that it was with Richelle because she's just lovely and I
know that you're going to love her, too.

64
00:05:41,750 --> 00:05:51,010
So, with that, let's get into this interview with my friend, my book coach, and
consultant, Richelle Fredson, all about how to

65
00:05:51,010 --> 00:05:54,820
publish a book, how to start writing your first book.

66
00:05:54,820 --> 00:06:02,330
And if you like this episode, I would love for you to screenshot and share it by
tagging me, @samvanderwielen, and Richelle, @richellefredson, on Instagram.

67
00:06:02,350 --> 00:06:03,990
Send me a DM. Send Richelle a DM.

68
00:06:03,990 --> 00:06:05,860
Let us know what you thought about this episode.

69
00:06:05,860 --> 00:06:11,970
And make sure, if you're not already, follow and subscribe to On Your Terms that
you get a notice for every new episode.

70
00:06:11,980 --> 00:06:17,950
And if you listen on Apple Podcasts, it would mean the world to me if you rated
and reviewed the podcast as well.

71
00:06:18,130 --> 00:06:26,460
With that, let's learn how to write your own book.

72
00:06:26,460 --> 00:06:32,300
So, I am so excited to be doing my first guest podcast interview today on On
Your Terms.

73
00:06:32,300 --> 00:06:35,910
And it's with my friend and my own book coach, Richelle Fredson.

74
00:06:35,910 --> 00:06:38,430
I'm so excited that Richelle is here.

75
00:06:38,430 --> 00:06:48,390
So, for her formal fancy introduction, Richelle is a book publishing coach and
consultant helping aspiring authors with book concept development, book
proposals, platform growth,

76
00:06:48,390 --> 00:06:49,680
and book launches.

77
00:06:49,710 --> 00:06:53,630
She's also the host of her own podcast called Bound & Determined.

78
00:06:53,630 --> 00:06:56,770
And at the end, we'll share more about where you can connect and listen.

79
00:06:56,790 --> 00:06:57,720
Welcome, Richelle.

80
00:06:58,200 --> 00:06:59,650
I'm so excited to be here.

81
00:06:59,650 --> 00:07:03,420
And I'm honored that I'm your first guest on this podcast.

82
00:07:03,450 --> 00:07:04,910
Yeah. I'm so excited too.

83
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:10,950
Well, it works out for me because I'm so used to talking to you anyway, so it's
not that awkward for me.

84
00:07:11,340 --> 00:07:13,410
Not yet, but maybe later.

85
00:07:13,410 --> 00:07:14,250
Very easy.

86
00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:20,430
Yeah. Exactly. So, I am so excited that you're here because I wanted to bring
you on today for two reasons.

87
00:07:20,430 --> 00:07:25,530
One, I am only taking a very select handful of guests whom I love, and you are
one of them.

88
00:07:26,070 --> 00:07:27,900
So, it's not going to be a regular thing.

89
00:07:27,900 --> 00:07:32,580
And I want to talk with people who do things on their terms, who help other
people do things on their terms.

90
00:07:32,590 --> 00:07:35,880
You're definitely a person that came to mind when I thought about that.

91
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,690
But, also, because in my own community, I know that there are so many people who
want to write a book.

92
00:07:40,690 --> 00:07:42,990
And I think that there's a lot of confusion around it.

93
00:07:42,990 --> 00:07:46,920
I know I had my own confusion around it that you helped me break down.

94
00:07:47,190 --> 00:07:52,860
But there's also a lot of, like, there's only one way to write a book or
there's a right way to write a book.

95
00:07:52,860 --> 00:08:02,040
And you have a lot of people on social media being like, "The only way to write
a book will ever be self-publishing." Or, "The only good way to write a book is
to do traditional publishing." And it feels really

96
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:03,060
overwhelming.

97
00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:11,310
And I also talk a lot on On Your Terms about not focusing so much on social
following and getting hung up in vanity metrics.

98
00:08:11,310 --> 00:08:20,760
And I think you're really helpful, and you were helpful to me in understanding
that writing a book is not only for those people or people with a big

99
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:26,670
following. So, I'm really excited to get into the real deal of book writing
with you today.

100
00:08:27,210 --> 00:08:35,280
I'm excited. I love demystifying publishing because, I think you're right, 
there's so much information out there and everyone is pushing their own agenda.

101
00:08:35,970 --> 00:08:45,630
And I have very little agenda besides just letting people know what their
options are, because I think people get very attached to

102
00:08:45,630 --> 00:08:48,980
one style of publishing or they think there's only one route.

103
00:08:48,980 --> 00:08:52,730
But there are more options available now than ever before.

104
00:08:52,740 --> 00:08:55,800
Like, if you want to write a book, you can write a book.

105
00:08:55,950 --> 00:09:05,910
Yeah. I'm excited, too, for you to break down what all those different types
are, because I remember that was the thing you kind of blew my mind with because
I had only been exposed to people who

106
00:09:05,910 --> 00:09:08,410
had very specific types of businesses.

107
00:09:08,410 --> 00:09:11,900
And they were, like, book coaches who help people to self-publish.

108
00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:15,180
And to me, personally, there's nothing wrong with that option, obviously.

109
00:09:15,180 --> 00:09:18,780
But, for me, as Richelle knows, that was just not the way I wanted to go.

110
00:09:18,780 --> 00:09:23,390
But it was helpful even to understand why and what the pros and cons are.

111
00:09:23,390 --> 00:09:32,490
There are cons, too. But I think before we get into all that, it would be so
helpful for people to know what you were doing before you started your own book
coaching business.

112
00:09:32,820 --> 00:09:40,500
Yeah. So, I started my career in PR media work at, actually, an agency in
Southern California.

113
00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:50,070
And I was doing products like WD-40, and McDonald's, and the Sony Vaio laptop
launch, and all of these very big things with very

114
00:09:50,070 --> 00:09:54,990
big juicy budgets, and just tons of money to spend a lot of fun to do.

115
00:09:54,990 --> 00:09:57,760
But what happened was I looked around and went, "Oh, my gosh.

116
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,050
The people that are sitting in these jobs, they're not me.

117
00:10:01,050 --> 00:10:06,570
Like, this isn't actually how I want to live my life." There was a lot of
pressure, super high pressure.

118
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,700
There wasn't a lot of movement and growth.

119
00:10:08,700 --> 00:10:11,850
And I just said, "It's for many people.

120
00:10:11,850 --> 00:10:13,500
This is not for me."

121
00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:22,710
And I sort of accidentally fell into book publishing, which makes my parents
laugh to this day, because I was the kid that never finished a book in school.

122
00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:25,980
Just forget it. I wanted the cliff notes version of everything.

123
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,240
I don't even know if cliff notes is a thing anymore.

124
00:10:28,350 --> 00:10:28,740
Did I just age myself?

125
00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:31,070
I don't know. It's probably all online now, I know.

126
00:10:31,070 --> 00:10:33,450
It's all online. You have to go by the little yellow-

127
00:10:33,450 --> 00:10:35,070
Just Google it. Yeah, I think you Google it now.

128
00:10:35,820 --> 00:10:42,010
So, essentially, I started my career in publishing about 18 years ago.

129
00:10:42,010 --> 00:10:44,130
And I, again, started on the PR side.

130
00:10:44,130 --> 00:10:45,450
It was my comfort zone.

131
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,060
I thought I know how to write a pitch.

132
00:10:48,060 --> 00:10:50,730
I know how to get people on TV shows.

133
00:10:50,730 --> 00:10:53,670
Like, let's stay in my comfort zone in this new industry.

134
00:10:54,210 --> 00:10:59,370
And then, over the years, grew through much bigger PR campaigns for books.

135
00:10:59,970 --> 00:11:02,370
I had lunch with Oprah in her house.

136
00:11:02,370 --> 00:11:03,810
I would have died, just for the record.

137
00:11:05,820 --> 00:11:07,770
Delicious gazpacho.

138
00:11:07,950 --> 00:11:09,650
Wait. Was this in her Santa Barbara home?

139
00:11:09,650 --> 00:11:12,430
The one that I want to live next to one day.

140
00:11:12,430 --> 00:11:14,780
It's beautiful. Yeah. Exactly right.

141
00:11:14,780 --> 00:11:20,940
So, I was booking clients on Super Bowl Sunday, and her old studio show in
Chicago, and Dr.

142
00:11:20,940 --> 00:11:22,460
Oz, and all the big things.

143
00:11:22,460 --> 00:11:25,050
And it was so fun until it wasn't.

144
00:11:25,270 --> 00:11:30,040
That's really, again, a high pressure job trying to please a lot of people.

145
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:38,950
It's hard because authors, really, are writing about so many things that are
really important to them and really intimate and vulnerable.

146
00:11:38,950 --> 00:11:45,720
And so, when you aren't able to always match the industry excitement with their
excitement, you know, it's tricky.

147
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,130
But it was really rewarding for a long time.

148
00:11:48,130 --> 00:11:55,270
And my role sort of segued from PR into digital marketing launches at the time
that publishing sort of said, "Okay.

149
00:11:55,270 --> 00:11:57,480
Social media is this thing now.

150
00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,610
Email lists are a thing now.

151
00:11:59,620 --> 00:12:07,200
How do we meet those standards?" And so, a lot of the PR roles started to
transition into digital marketing roles.

152
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:13,050
Like, how can we reach the most people through these somewhat organic channels
that authors have created?

153
00:12:13,060 --> 00:12:20,940
So, I spent a long time doing big digital marketing launches for New York Times
Best Selling Authors and first time authors.

154
00:12:20,940 --> 00:12:28,510
So, really learning how to communicate that goal differently to two different
types of people at different parts of their journey.

155
00:12:28,510 --> 00:12:32,680
And then, ultimately, began working in acquisitions in tandem with that role.

156
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:42,490
And that was really cool, because now I got to meet with agents and authors,
and read many, many book proposals, and help decide what we would

157
00:12:42,490 --> 00:12:43,610
buy and publish.

158
00:12:43,630 --> 00:12:53,500
So, I got to use all my former hats, from PR and media to digital marketing and
social media and all of that, to determine what would be the most marketable buy
for the

159
00:12:53,500 --> 00:13:03,480
publisher. So, that's what makes my job now so incredibly fun because I get to
use all of that former experience to help craft things from the

160
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:04,120
ground up.

161
00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:07,980
Yeah. I can see that firsthand, obviously, as a client.

162
00:13:07,980 --> 00:13:17,920
And I love how much your background plays into what you do now, because as you
have taught me so much about, that nowadays writing your own book, wanting to go
the traditional

163
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:23,170
publishing route, it's not this fairytale story that people like myself dreamed
of.

164
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:28,270
That, like, my book would just show up in Barnes and Noble and everyone would
be celebrating it.

165
00:13:28,420 --> 00:13:32,280
And so, there's a lot of legwork on our own end for marketing the book.

166
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:39,220
And so, I can just see how much that would help in what you do and how much
realistic advice you bring to the table.

167
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,810
Thank you. And, really, what everyone should want is a book that sells for a
long time.

168
00:13:43,810 --> 00:13:50,100
And I think sometimes when we get caught up in publishing a book, it's how do I
make this a bestseller right away?

169
00:13:50,110 --> 00:13:53,590
How do I sell thousands of copies in my first week?

170
00:13:53,590 --> 00:13:57,190
And that's a sort of short sighted way to look at the publishing process.

171
00:13:57,190 --> 00:13:59,470
I mean, a book is this concrete thing.

172
00:13:59,470 --> 00:14:00,970
We're holding it in our hands.

173
00:14:00,970 --> 00:14:03,250
It's not easy to reproduce.

174
00:14:03,250 --> 00:14:06,070
You're printing thousands and thousands of copies.

175
00:14:06,220 --> 00:14:10,240
And, of course, there's e-books and audiobooks which take a lot of production.

176
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:16,180
So, the goal is always how can I create a book that's going to sell well long
term and sell consistently?

177
00:14:16,180 --> 00:14:23,830
So, part of that is that marketing lens of how do we get that flash and how do
we create something that's sustainable?

178
00:14:23,860 --> 00:14:28,480
What do you think distinguishes a book that would sell for a long time?

179
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,390
What ingredients does a book like that need?

180
00:14:31,780 --> 00:14:36,190
Yeah. I mean, usually tackling the things that are plaguing everybody all the
time.

181
00:14:37,420 --> 00:14:38,990
The me too factor.

182
00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:40,290
People just being like, "Oh.

183
00:14:40,290 --> 00:14:41,940
Me too." Or like, "You're in my mind.

184
00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:51,910
You're in my head." I don't know if it's helpful, but when people on your email
list or whatever write back and we'll say, "It's like you're in my head." It's
always those topics I tried

185
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:54,850
to think about, obviously, that's what's connecting with people.

186
00:14:55,090 --> 00:14:57,640
Yeah. And it's a lot of the emotional components.

187
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:06,490
So, when I think about sort of flash books that will sell quickly but for a
short amount of time, they're things like fad diets or the next great

188
00:15:07,090 --> 00:15:10,000
cookbook genre or something like Instant Pot things.

189
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:16,100
They have a great kick at the beginning and then they're going to slow down
naturally when the next great thing happens.

190
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,640
But when we talk about human emotion and the human experience, that is forever.

191
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:27,270
And it's proven to me all the time when I just show up more vulnerably on my
social media too.

192
00:15:27,270 --> 00:15:33,340
Last night, I did a post about feeling really conflicted as someone who runs a
business and is a mom.

193
00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:38,170
And my son is sick and I felt guilty for having to move things around my
schedule.

194
00:15:39,010 --> 00:15:48,300
And my final line was, "We have to remember we're more than the work that we
do." And the comments were blowing out with people going, "This was me today.

195
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:52,150
I needed to hear this." And those are the tidbits that create a good book.

196
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:56,260
Like, how can you get people jumping in and going, "This is me.

197
00:15:56,260 --> 00:15:58,570
I needed this. This sounds exactly like me.

198
00:15:58,570 --> 00:16:01,870
I see myself in your book, in your story."

199
00:16:02,020 --> 00:16:04,320
Yeah. That's exactly what I was thinking when you said that.

200
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:13,600
It's like, in every good copywriting course class, whatever that you take, I
always think of anything that I write as a mirror for other people - or a
mirror, as my dad would

201
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,550
say - that they're seeing themselves in it.

202
00:16:18,550 --> 00:16:24,580
At the end of the day, let's just be real, when people read stuff, they're
thinking the what's in it for me factor.

203
00:16:24,580 --> 00:16:24,590
Completely.

204
00:16:24,590 --> 00:16:29,240
So, I think we all get real excited about telling our stories in a book like,
"Oh.

205
00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:35,960
I've had the story of my whole life." But the point is it has to be helpful to
other people and has to reflect back to to them.

206
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,610
A hundred percent. But that's like a reflex for me now when I'm talking people
through their book process.

207
00:16:40,610 --> 00:16:42,500
It's like, "This is so good.

208
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:47,720
I love this story about your life." And how do we show up in the teacher seat?

209
00:16:47,750 --> 00:16:55,640
How do we now turn the camera and bring the reader into the fold and help them
have that reflection or look at that experience?

210
00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:05,300
But you're right, when people read story, anecdotal story or personal story, 
they're often substituting in their own experience into that.

211
00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:10,430
So, when people ask me, how much do I need to share in my book, like, how
vulnerable do I need to be?

212
00:17:10,430 --> 00:17:11,810
How open do I need to be?

213
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:18,950
Only as much as you're comfortable with and only as much as they need to get
the point and see themselves in that story.

214
00:17:18,950 --> 00:17:20,750
We're all just thinking about ourselves.

215
00:17:20,990 --> 00:17:24,380
It is true. I mean, it's just the way the human psyche works.

216
00:17:24,380 --> 00:17:27,920
But I mean, the people who are reading your post last night were probably like,
"Oh.

217
00:17:28,090 --> 00:17:37,970
Thank, God. I'm not alone. I'm not the only person who feels this conflict, and
this guilt, and this poll to want to be both a business owner and an
entrepreneur and a great mom, and then feeling like you're not doing

218
00:17:37,970 --> 00:17:48,920
either that great sometimes because you're being pulled." So, people can really
relate to that and people don't want to feel alone, period, end of story.

219
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,660
That's the whole point of creating a great book, right?

220
00:17:50,690 --> 00:17:53,060
Like, let's just know that we're all in this together.

221
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:54,530
Yeah. It's like a hug.

222
00:17:54,530 --> 00:18:01,730
I mean, I was an avid reader as a kid, and I felt like the characters in books
were my friends.

223
00:18:02,090 --> 00:18:05,870
So, that sounds really sad when you say it out loud.

224
00:18:05,870 --> 00:18:07,310
It's not sad. My husband says that too.

225
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:12,940
Like, he has a few books and he's like, "I'm definitely the Holden Caulfield." 
He definitely has references.

226
00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:14,840
Yeah. I feel like that for sure.

227
00:18:15,140 --> 00:18:25,100
So, tell me a little bit about how you went from all these, having lunch with
Oprah - which I'm now super jealous about - and to actually starting your own
business and you're

228
00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:27,710
coaching? And is that what brought you to New York, by the way?

229
00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:36,090
So, the publishing house brought me to New York, and part of that move was that
it was a Southern California based publisher, Hay House.

230
00:18:36,090 --> 00:18:40,610
And the company grew large enough to really be competitive with some of these
major publishers.

231
00:18:40,610 --> 00:18:49,160
We needed a New York presence, so they sent me out here with one other person
to start the New York office and really start meeting with agents and talent in
person.

232
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,810
And so, that was very exciting for me.

233
00:18:53,810 --> 00:18:56,210
I was the first one in my family to move away.

234
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:57,860
They're all still back in California.

235
00:18:58,210 --> 00:19:00,020
You know, I sold my car.

236
00:19:00,020 --> 00:19:05,150
It was like a whole different lifestyle moving to the big city, and I loved it
so much.

237
00:19:05,150 --> 00:19:14,930
But, really, the tipping point for starting my business - and this is like the
ultimate On Your Terms moment - is I had my son, so I

238
00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:16,100
gave birth to Cooper.

239
00:19:16,130 --> 00:19:21,710
Before that, just working a lot of hours and managing a lot of campaigns.

240
00:19:21,710 --> 00:19:30,200
It was a lot and I loved it and it filled me up, but I was thriving on sort of
that chaos a little bit, the go, go, go hustle.

241
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,370
And then, I had Cooper.

242
00:19:31,370 --> 00:19:41,330
And while I was on maternity leave, I was like, "If I could curate a business,
or a role, or a position that only

243
00:19:41,330 --> 00:19:50,810
tapped into the things I really love about the work that I do, what would it
look like?" And about two months into maternity leave, my brain started firing
on all

244
00:19:50,810 --> 00:19:53,530
cylinders, just ready to be back to doing something.

245
00:19:53,540 --> 00:19:57,800
I mean, God bless motherhood, but I was ready to start thinking about something
else.

246
00:19:58,910 --> 00:20:02,660
And, of course, still sleep deprived and not making a lot of sense.

247
00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:12,650
But I would just walk to the local coffee shop in Brooklyn, where I was at the
time, and just listen to podcasts and take notes and think about could I really
create something for myself

248
00:20:12,650 --> 00:20:22,380
that feels like it would fill me up, and be an actual lucrative business, and
allow me to not miss the moments of my life that I don't want to miss?

249
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,950
And I went back to work.

250
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:27,320
And, again, I loved everyone I worked with.

251
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:30,730
It was a great job to have.

252
00:20:30,730 --> 00:20:34,070
And I realized very quickly the shoe didn't fit anymore.

253
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:41,990
I had this sort of wake up call to what I wanted my life to look like every day
as a mom and someone who built a career.

254
00:20:42,020 --> 00:20:50,650
And so, the someday when plan became the now plan, and I just leapt into the
great unknown.

255
00:20:50,660 --> 00:20:54,910
I had very little plan in place before.

256
00:20:54,910 --> 00:20:56,840
I was like, "This is what I'm doing, guys.

257
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:03,470
I'm going all in." I want to help the people that don't have the roadmap to
getting published.

258
00:21:03,470 --> 00:21:09,360
Like, I've worked with some of the biggest names in the nonfiction industry, and
they're wonderful.

259
00:21:09,380 --> 00:21:11,720
They also have huge teams of support.

260
00:21:11,780 --> 00:21:15,350
How do I help the people that don't know who to look to?

261
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,470
And that's really when Purposeful Platforms was born.

262
00:21:18,770 --> 00:21:23,600
That's amazing. Yeah, people who still have incredible stories but don't have
the same resources, obviously.

263
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,960
That's really cool.

264
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:32,530
And had you heard of book coaches before you kind of created this business?

265
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:42,430
No. And I have to tell you, I had a real identity crisis with calling myself a
coach just because, especially being in the industry that I'm in, people are
very quick to use that label.

266
00:21:42,460 --> 00:21:48,700
And so, for a long time, I was just kind of framing it as a consultant, a
publishing consultant.

267
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:55,960
And when I first started the business, I was really focused on helping people
understand the benefit of a platform.

268
00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:05,050
Because I'd spent so long having to turn down really great books because the
platform wasn't there, because that's where the traditional publishing model
was, and they still are.

269
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,140
They're very focused on the platform.

270
00:22:07,140 --> 00:22:17,080
But there were so many great teachers and great writers that weren't getting the
attention they needed because they didn't know how to teach online or how to
show up online in a

271
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,250
way that was effective. So, I started really heavily on the platform side.

272
00:22:21,250 --> 00:22:25,720
And then, I was like, "I have all of this amazing PR and marketing experience.

273
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,520
I know what makes a good book proposal because I was the person on the other
side of the table for a long time.

274
00:22:30,670 --> 00:22:40,120
How do I take all of that knowledge and develop the idea for these great
books?" And so, I just started doing it because I was also really

275
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:42,700
confident in what I knew.

276
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:48,160
And so, that's one thing that I've never really been hung up on is like, I know
that I have what it takes.

277
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,340
It's just about doing it in a way that doesn't burn me out.

278
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,610
And so, I had to build a formula that did that.

279
00:22:55,060 --> 00:22:59,920
Yeah. But I love how you went into it ahead of time knowing that you wanted to
do things on your terms.

280
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:06,280
I mean, a lot of people say they want to start a business because they want
freedom and flexibility, but it's kind of a loftier thing.

281
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:15,910
I think, also, when people come from a corporate world and transition into
being their own boss, you have a better idea sometimes of

282
00:23:15,910 --> 00:23:19,720
exactly what that looks like because you've done the other way.

283
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:29,280
You've given up all the small moments in your life and you've sacrificed,
probably, your health, and your wellbeing, and your sleep, and a whole bunch of
other stuff at the time.

284
00:23:29,290 --> 00:23:32,650
I was sick so much when I had a more corporate position.

285
00:23:32,650 --> 00:23:42,640
I was sick all the time and I didn't recognize that it was connected to the way
that I was treating myself because I was so focused on the next great thing, and
climbing the ladder, and

286
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,680
just giving so much of myself.

287
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:54,670
And what's interesting is that transition into the new business, there was a
period of time where things felt very quiet because I was used to such a
juggle, and I had to get comfortable in

288
00:23:54,670 --> 00:23:58,930
the moments that were more quiet and not make abrupt decisions.

289
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,920
Not take on a client because I felt like I needed the money.

290
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,910
And, of course, everyone at the beginning of their business does that stuff
because you're like, "Oh, my God.

291
00:24:06,910 --> 00:24:16,180
I need to pay the bills, so I'm going to take on a client." I learned pretty
quickly, about six months in, that if I took a client based on money, it often
didn't turn out well.

292
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:23,170
So, I had to get really clear on who the right person was for me, and that was
just trial and error at the beginning.

293
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:24,390
For sure.

294
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:34,350
And by the way, if anybody wants to learn more about this topic, I just did a 
few episodes ago about client warning signs, and bad clients, and who to take on
and

295
00:24:34,420 --> 00:24:40,840
who not. But I also talk about how, sometimes, it's good to make some of those
mistakes in the beginning because you'll stumble through.

296
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,700
So, I'll link to that at the bottom.

297
00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:48,130
But I was hoping, too, Richelle, you would tell people what is a book coach or a
book consultant.

298
00:24:48,130 --> 00:24:51,530
Like, what exactly does a book consultant do for people?

299
00:24:51,530 --> 00:24:52,870
And who would need one?

300
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,170
There's all different kinds.

301
00:24:55,170 --> 00:25:00,820
So, there's certainly people that coach you through the proposal process and
help you write the book and things like that.

302
00:25:00,820 --> 00:25:03,510
They're more of editors, I would say, more than book coaches.

303
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,800
And then, like you said, there are some people who coach you because they have
their own publishing model within their business.

304
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,690
And it's only for self-publishing that I have seen.

305
00:25:12,690 --> 00:25:14,950
There may be other kinds out there.

306
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:24,940
But the way that I work is, essentially, you come to me when you have an idea
for a book, or you have a business and you know that that book

307
00:25:24,940 --> 00:25:27,760
is going to be a part of your business and part of your offerings.

308
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:37,540
And you're like, I have this coaching practice, or I have this legal business,
or I have all these things that I do for entrepreneurs, how do I take what I
know and create a

309
00:25:37,540 --> 00:25:45,340
tool that brings in business that fills my coaching programs that becomes this
entry point for people to discover what I do?

310
00:25:45,340 --> 00:25:48,450
So, people come to me at, like, the bud of an idea.

311
00:25:48,450 --> 00:25:57,740
And usually my consults start with people saying, "I'm not a writer, but I want
to write a book." And I tell them that everybody says that.

312
00:25:57,740 --> 00:26:00,670
And I help them, essentially, develop the idea.

313
00:26:01,090 --> 00:26:05,550
And it's the marriage of what I know and what they know.

314
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,800
And, together, that makes a really marketable idea.

315
00:26:08,890 --> 00:26:12,050
So, we work through the proposal process.

316
00:26:12,050 --> 00:26:16,570
And, oftentimes, I'll do agent introductions and help them through the process.

317
00:26:16,570 --> 00:26:22,870
And a lot of it is just being that person they can turn to when, number one,
they hit those moments of uncertainty.

318
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:31,250
I'm not a substitute for therapy, but there is a lot of sort of therapy
conversation happening in the work that we do because it's vulnerable.

319
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,060
But helping them navigate all the questions that come up.

320
00:26:34,060 --> 00:26:36,610
Like, what type of agent do I need?

321
00:26:36,620 --> 00:26:39,830
Do I want to go self-hybrid or traditional?

322
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:42,210
And just figuring out a route that's right for them.

323
00:26:42,210 --> 00:26:45,150
And so, there's no template to what I do.

324
00:26:45,170 --> 00:26:50,270
It's just it's connecting to another human and guiding them from what I know in
the industry.

325
00:26:50,450 --> 00:26:55,720
Yeah. Yeah. And just to let everyone know, I hired Richelle in that way too.

326
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,550
I don't think I said I wasn't a writer.

327
00:26:57,550 --> 00:27:01,700
Not that I think I am a writer, but I like to write, so I don't think I said
it.

328
00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:06,200
But I came to Richelle saying, like, "I have a lot of ideas.

329
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:12,380
I just don't know what direction to go in." And so, you were really helpful not
only nailing down that idea.

330
00:27:12,380 --> 00:27:22,190
But I think what's been so great about our work together so far and what we're
working on the book proposal now is that you've helped me so far to craft
something that balances this storytelling.

331
00:27:22,190 --> 00:27:28,670
Like, the stories that I did want to get out and do emotionally connect with
other people, to here are tips about how to grow your business.

332
00:27:28,670 --> 00:27:32,600
Because I didn't want - I don't know - a Gary V.

333
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,890
style book or something.

334
00:27:34,890 --> 00:27:38,680
I didn't want this like bro marketing or this straight up strategic.

335
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,100
I wanted the hybrid.

336
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,170
But, I, obviously, first and foremost, wanted to be helpful to other people.

337
00:27:45,170 --> 00:27:54,860
So, I guess I wanted to say to anyone who maybe has an idea but is struggling to
figure out how that's a marketable idea, it can be really helpful to work with
someone like Richelle.

338
00:27:55,460 --> 00:28:02,080
Thank you. And more often than not, people come to the table and they have ten 
ideas that they're trying to fit into one book.

339
00:28:02,370 --> 00:28:07,590
I'm like, this is a whole series of books, but how do we not overwhelm the
reader?

340
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:13,830
And the beautiful thing about integrating a story, is, some people will learn
from the tactical tidbits that you give them.

341
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:17,090
And some people will learn because they see themselves in your story.

342
00:28:17,090 --> 00:28:21,350
So, having all of that makes a really complete beautiful book.

343
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:26,780
I love the sort of straddling line of prescriptive memoir storytelling and
help.

344
00:28:27,620 --> 00:28:29,090
Yeah. It is fun.

345
00:28:29,090 --> 00:28:38,630
And if anybody does something like what I do in the sense that it's very
technical and can be dry and boring, I found that storytelling has broken me out
of this

346
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:47,870
cycle of I used to feel frozen about what to write about, because I'm like,
"Oh, can I really write another post called what three website policies you need
on your website?"

347
00:28:47,870 --> 00:28:53,150
That's how I write and so I connect.

348
00:28:53,150 --> 00:28:58,790
Even all of my emails to my list about these podcast episodes is all a story
that then links to this episode.

349
00:28:58,790 --> 00:29:05,360
And so, I just find that it can unlock for some of us who feel like we have to
express ourselves in that way.

350
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:11,060
And so, I found the book writing or book proposal writing process really
freeing in that way.

351
00:29:11,390 --> 00:29:13,400
Yeah. Absolutely.

352
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:22,130
I think it would be helpful for you to explain to people what the publishing
options are and then like what the differences are between options like
self-publishing,

353
00:29:22,940 --> 00:29:24,860
traditional publishing, hybrid, all of that.

354
00:29:24,860 --> 00:29:29,740
So, the three options are what you just said, self-publishing, hybrid, and
traditional.

355
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:30,690
You taught me a lot.

356
00:29:30,690 --> 00:29:32,600
Yeah. You're such a good student.

357
00:29:33,710 --> 00:29:36,680
Let's start from sort of the biggest down.

358
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,100
So, traditional publishing is what people mostly know about book publishing.

359
00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:42,170
It's Simon and Schuster.

360
00:29:42,170 --> 00:29:44,780
It's Random House. It's the agent process.

361
00:29:44,780 --> 00:29:51,940
So, you would need to create a book proposal and you would need to have a
pretty thriving platform.

362
00:29:51,940 --> 00:30:01,770
So, your social media is kicked off, you've started building a community - and I
don't like to assign a number to that because I have seen books with 5,000 
followers

363
00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:04,490
get a six figure deal.

364
00:30:04,490 --> 00:30:07,580
And I've seen people with 200,000 followers get a more modest deal.

365
00:30:07,580 --> 00:30:10,160
So, I don't like to give a number.

366
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,560
It's really about are you showing up and talking about what you want to write
this book about?

367
00:30:15,770 --> 00:30:20,900
Are you present? Are you showing up publicly to teach or to create conversation
in communities?

368
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:22,670
So, you need the proposal.

369
00:30:22,670 --> 00:30:25,650
You need that platform to be thriving.

370
00:30:25,650 --> 00:30:28,040
And then, you would need an agent.

371
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:37,940
So, the first sort of hurdle is getting an agent to represent you, because
they're the ones that are going to go and knock on the doors of all the
publishers and say, "I have something really great that you

372
00:30:37,940 --> 00:30:41,780
should pay attention to." Your agent is like your best friend in this process.

373
00:30:41,780 --> 00:30:49,180
It's why I work so closely with agents because, to me, it's an energetic
decision in addition to sort of a tactical decision.

374
00:30:49,180 --> 00:30:52,910
You want to work with an agent that's going to champion you.

375
00:30:52,940 --> 00:30:55,590
And so, it has to be the right fit.

376
00:30:55,590 --> 00:31:01,880
So, once you've secured your agent, they will look at your proposal and make any
tweaks that they feel it needs.

377
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,440
And then, you're sort of off to the races.

378
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,830
You will start getting some interest from publishers.

379
00:31:06,830 --> 00:31:09,240
Your agent sends out your proposal.

380
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,770
And you have publisher meetings - and now they're on Zoom.

381
00:31:13,770 --> 00:31:22,250
But you, essentially, talk to their editorial team, sometimes their marketing
and salespeople, and they will make a decision if it's something they'd like to
publish.

382
00:31:22,610 --> 00:31:27,030
And then, they offer you an amount of money, and that's called an advance.

383
00:31:27,030 --> 00:31:30,290
So, you get paid an advance to write the book.

384
00:31:30,290 --> 00:31:35,970
For first time authors, it could be $10,000 to $250,000 up to $500,000.

385
00:31:35,970 --> 00:31:39,590
I've seen it in every range possible.

386
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:47,240
But, typically, first time author advances are a little bit more modest, unless
you have a sizable platform.

387
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,270
So, that's the traditional publishing process.

388
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:59,120
You, obviously, have internal teams, so you have a marketing team, you have a
sales team, you have your on staff editors, you have distribution so it's being
put

389
00:31:59,390 --> 00:32:04,800
in Barnes and Noble and trying to be sold to Target and Costco and all the big
box stores.

390
00:32:04,820 --> 00:32:09,290
So, it's sort of this all encompassing way to publish.

391
00:32:09,290 --> 00:32:13,820
The challenge in today's market is that it does skew platform heavy.

392
00:32:13,820 --> 00:32:23,090
So, to break through the noise, you either need a really strong proposal that
builds the case or you need a really strong platform, preferably

393
00:32:23,090 --> 00:32:26,470
both.

394
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:36,110
But hybrid publishing, which is the middle ground - so the middle ground between
self-publishing and traditional publishing - is a more recent model that's
emerged over about five, six years -

395
00:32:36,110 --> 00:32:44,080
credibly speaking over the last five, six years - and has basically been formed
of people that left traditional publishing because they felt it wasn't an
author-centric

396
00:32:44,860 --> 00:32:46,540
model.

397
00:32:46,540 --> 00:32:54,100
So, they wanted to leave the sort of stricter business side of publishing and
create a model that put more of the power back in the author's hands.

398
00:32:54,370 --> 00:32:58,150
It doesn't require you to sign over your creative rights to your material.

399
00:32:58,180 --> 00:32:59,890
You don't need an agent.

400
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:01,350
You need a proposal.

401
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:06,580
But the whole point being that they acquire more based on content, less about
platform.

402
00:33:07,330 --> 00:33:13,300
Whereas, in traditional publishing, the platform is more of a contender for
getting a deal.

403
00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:15,850
So, hybrid publishing you do not get paid in advance.

404
00:33:16,180 --> 00:33:19,350
You pay for the services that you use within the publisher.

405
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,360
So, if you want to use their editorial services, there's a price for that.

406
00:33:23,380 --> 00:33:31,280
If you want to have them design your cover, if you want them to sell your book
and distribute it, there's a price point for all of that.

407
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,720
Kind of all in, you could expect about $15,000 for that.

408
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,560
You're also paying for the cost to print the books, which is in there.

409
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:44,580
But the highlight being, you earn more of a royalty on each book sold.

410
00:33:44,580 --> 00:33:49,840
So, you can earn anywhere from 30 to 85 percent on every book you sell.

411
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,500
As opposed to traditional publishing, you get on average ten percent.

412
00:33:53,770 --> 00:34:00,760
So, there is opportunity to make a little bit more money faster, though you're
not getting paid in advance.

413
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:06,120
But you get to be in creative control, which for a lot of my clients, they
really want.

414
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,130
And you're faster to market.

415
00:34:09,130 --> 00:34:12,460
So, traditional publishing, there's not a lot of wiggle room on the timeline.

416
00:34:12,460 --> 00:34:16,190
You can expect 18 to 24 months from the moment that you sell the book.

417
00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:21,760
From the moment you sell the book to the publisher, not counting proposal and
all that other stuff.

418
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,760
In hybrid publishing, you could expect nine months to a year.

419
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:32,680
So, if you're someone who's like, "I need a book in my business stat," that can
be really helpful to look at the hybrid publishing model.

420
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,970
And I have a couple of clients that just really love having more of that
creative control.

421
00:34:37,450 --> 00:34:42,190
And then, beyond hybrid publishing, they're self-publishing and that is the you
and you model.

422
00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:43,930
So, it's you.

423
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,520
So, essentially, it's all on you.

424
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:55,750
And I have clients and friends that have self-published and love it and
wouldn't do it any other way, but what they learned from book one to book

425
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:58,930
two and book three is that they needed to hire support.

426
00:34:58,930 --> 00:35:08,740
So, to make a really professional product, you will need to hire an editor, and
a designer, and all of those things because you want it to look substantial and
be competitive in the

427
00:35:08,740 --> 00:35:10,080
market.

428
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,650
So, of course, you're making 100 percent of the money, which is awesome.

429
00:35:13,660 --> 00:35:19,930
You just need to know that you're going to invest in some support from
editorial and design to make sure you get it out there.

430
00:35:25,450 --> 00:35:30,080
Have you ever felt lost about where to begin with the legal side of protecting
your online business?

431
00:35:30,100 --> 00:35:33,610
Some people say you can just wing it at the beginning and get officially set up
later.

432
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:35,950
Not a good idea, by the way.

433
00:35:35,950 --> 00:35:45,940
Whether you're afraid to even start working with clients because you don't want
to do something wrong legally and then get in trouble or your business is
growing and you sort of forgot to take care of the legal

434
00:35:45,940 --> 00:35:48,010
pieces, I've got you.

435
00:35:48,010 --> 00:35:57,550
I don't want you to live in fear of the internet police coming after you and
your business, but you do have to do certain things and get certain things in
place in order to legally and safely run your business

436
00:35:57,550 --> 00:36:04,900
online. As much as it just feels like an unregulated Wild Wild West online,
that is very much not the case.

437
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:09,940
As an attorney turned entrepreneur and former corporate litigator, I can assure
you that there are rules.

438
00:36:09,940 --> 00:36:14,950
There are real steps that everybody who runs or starts an online business needs
to take.

439
00:36:15,250 --> 00:36:17,080
And you're not behind at all.

440
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,470
We can get you set up and following the rules right away.

441
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,610
In fact, we can even do it today.

442
00:36:21,610 --> 00:36:26,560
I want to teach you the five very simple steps to take to legally protect and
grow your online business.

443
00:36:26,620 --> 00:36:36,190
You don't need an MBA to be a successful entrepreneur and stay out of legal hot
water, but you do need to dot your legal I's and cross your T's in a few key
areas that can't be skipped.

444
00:36:36,190 --> 00:36:42,380
That's exactly what I'll teach you in my free one hour legal workshop called
Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow your Online Business.

445
00:36:42,380 --> 00:36:51,160
Just head to mylegalworkshop.com, drop in your email address, pick the time, and
I'll send you a link to watch the workshop video whenever you have time.

446
00:36:51,160 --> 00:37:00,940
This is the best place to begin if you're just getting started legally
legitimizing your business, so head on over to mylegalworkshop.com and sign up
to watch Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow your Online

447
00:37:00,940 --> 00:37:01,840
Business now.

448
00:37:08,730 --> 00:37:09,860
That was so helpful.

449
00:37:09,870 --> 00:37:14,850
Before working with you, I didn't even know that the hybrid model existed.

450
00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:19,200
And I think it's really helpful for people to understand that there are
different options.

451
00:37:19,230 --> 00:37:29,070
What would you tell someone, though, who has this idea, wants to start a book,
is at the beginning of the process, really doesn't know where to go about which
one of these little

452
00:37:29,070 --> 00:37:30,510
branches to choose?

453
00:37:30,510 --> 00:37:33,000
Like, which one is right for the right person?

454
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:34,800
Yeah. That's a really great question.

455
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,200
I think at the beginning, you don't need to decide.

456
00:37:37,230 --> 00:37:42,570
I think the beginning is, what is this book going to be and what is the impact
that I want to make?

457
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:51,620
Which is why even my friends who have self-published would tell you the value
of doing a book proposal, even if you want to self-publish.

458
00:37:51,620 --> 00:38:01,590
Because, as you're experiencing now, the discovery that comes from creating a
book proposal and the clarity and defining the mission and all of

459
00:38:01,590 --> 00:38:02,970
that is really invaluable.

460
00:38:02,970 --> 00:38:09,360
So, you want to go through that process and then go, How long do I want to wait
to have the book out?

461
00:38:09,690 --> 00:38:13,830
Do I want to take the time to build a more substantial platform?

462
00:38:13,830 --> 00:38:16,160
Is my business ready to launch this book?

463
00:38:16,170 --> 00:38:18,040
There's a lot of personal considerations.

464
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:27,690
But at the beginning it's like, let's just figure out what the book is and feel
confident in that so that I can feel empowered to make the right decision on how
I want to

465
00:38:27,690 --> 00:38:28,370
publish.

466
00:38:28,380 --> 00:38:30,480
Yeah. Really give yourself options.

467
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:39,660
And it sounds like one of the most important things to think about ahead of
time would be how does this fit into my business, considering everyone who
listens to this podcast is an entrepreneur.

468
00:38:39,690 --> 00:38:47,340
So, if you're writing this book as a personal project versus is this going to
be an entry point to a funnel or is this part of your marketing.

469
00:38:47,340 --> 00:38:53,760
And even as you're describing all the different options, I'm thinking how long
term this is.

470
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,770
Like, how much this is in the long game.

471
00:38:55,770 --> 00:39:00,340
So, for somebody like me now who's been in business for, like, five years I was
like, "Okay.

472
00:39:00,340 --> 00:39:07,270
It doesn't matter to me it takes a couple of years." Like, we're planning for
things that are that long term.

473
00:39:07,270 --> 00:39:17,160
So, I could see an argument for maybe going more of the hybrid or
self-publishing route if you're closer to the beginning of your business need to
get your feet under you and start that marketing funnel.

474
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,360
As opposed to this being something that you have an audience to sell to already.

475
00:39:21,870 --> 00:39:28,040
I mean, the truth is your business or your platform are your only customers at
the beginning.

476
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:37,770
Which is part of why traditional publishing puts so much emphasis on the
platform because they're like, "This lessons are risks." If we know that we can
marry our

477
00:39:37,770 --> 00:39:41,700
contacts with their contacts, we have a better chance of success.

478
00:39:41,710 --> 00:39:47,970
And, obviously, in traditional, you get a certain number of weeks of PR and
marketing support, which is awesome.

479
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,720
Hybrid is now matching that, too, with some of their services.

480
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:55,020
If you self-publish those are additional investments you're going to make for
yourself.

481
00:39:56,010 --> 00:40:04,440
So, look, for the average business owner or entrepreneur, the number one
question you should be asking yourself is, Is this a tool to grow my business?

482
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:12,630
Because you can integrate so much of yourself and your personal experience into
this, but the book should be rooted in what your core expertise is.

483
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:21,740
And that's something that we've talked about in our work together, especially
traditional publishers, they want to know that your first book out of the gate
is grounded in what you do.

484
00:40:21,740 --> 00:40:31,710
So, you have a better chance if you have a business of your own, or you're
starting a non-profit, or any of those things that you want to make sure that
the book is an

485
00:40:31,710 --> 00:40:35,290
offshoot of what that core expertise is.

486
00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:42,720
And I know that so many people think that writing a book, in it of itself, and
then selling that book is what makes you rich.

487
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:52,440
I mean, not only through our own work together - I wish you guys could see 
Richelle laughing - but even just in our conversation, it sounded to

488
00:40:52,440 --> 00:41:02,280
me like what people should be focusing on instead is how the book will actually
be part of the marketing funnel that could make you rich because it leads to the
service, the program, the

489
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:03,890
product, whatever that you sell.

490
00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:06,420
But the book itself does not make you rich.

491
00:41:06,420 --> 00:41:08,490
I feel like you should have this like a big sign somewhere.

492
00:41:08,490 --> 00:41:12,880
I do. very time I speak in public, I go, "Do not write a book to make money.

493
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:21,360
Launch a course, launch a mastermind, a group program, and a membership, 
anything." A book is so wonderful for so many reasons.

494
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:26,910
I mean, again, like bringing in clients, growing your business legacy, all of
those beautiful things.

495
00:41:26,910 --> 00:41:28,800
But it's not a fast moneymaker.

496
00:41:28,830 --> 00:41:38,010
There's this beautiful permanence to it, which we talked about earlier, but it
really, really is the long game, but it's an incredible tool for opening more
doors of opportunity.

497
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,790
I always think about Phoebe Lapine who wrote The Wellness Project.

498
00:41:41,790 --> 00:41:49,410
And so, she wrote The Wellness Project which chronicled 12 months of her life 
where she focused on a different wellness aspect each month.

499
00:41:49,410 --> 00:41:52,310
And so, it's kind of broken up The Happiness Project.

500
00:41:52,320 --> 00:42:01,410
And then, she started a group program called The Wellness Project, so every
time people were reading the book, they were then going to her website, opting
into her email list.

501
00:42:01,410 --> 00:42:08,390
Then, she was emailing out however many times a year to say, "Hey, this group
program is opening." And then, people were enrolling in this program.

502
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:12,520
And I was like, "Oh, that's how a book fits into this marketing funnel."

503
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:18,530
It's so good. And I use my client, Chrissy King, as an example all the time - 
and she's so great.

504
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:26,710
And so, she wrote an article for Shape that was around body liberation and her
experience in the fitness industry.

505
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:36,490
And she got contacted by a publisher that was like, "Would you write a book?"
And it was a great

506
00:42:36,490 --> 00:42:38,310
offer. She had no clue.

507
00:42:38,310 --> 00:42:40,040
And she would tell the story the same herself.

508
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,450
But she had no clue how to make this decision and was this the right decision.

509
00:42:43,450 --> 00:42:51,530
And so, she reached out to friends who put her in touch with a literary agent
who then sent her to me because we know the power of a great book proposal.

510
00:42:51,530 --> 00:42:59,950
And so, that book proposal was a significant difference in publisher interest
and offers for her.

511
00:42:59,980 --> 00:43:01,960
And that's the truth.

512
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,730
And she's not the only example I have like that.

513
00:43:03,730 --> 00:43:12,890
It's like if you're out there in the world doing great work and making waves in
your industry, there's probably people already watching you.

514
00:43:12,910 --> 00:43:15,040
I have a number of clients who say, "Oh, my gosh.

515
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:21,780
[Torture or Hachette] are following me." Or, "An editor reached out to me." And
what I always tell them is like, "Great.

516
00:43:21,790 --> 00:43:30,940
Now, write the book proposal." Because it's hard to hit pause for a minute
because you want to take that opportunity.

517
00:43:30,940 --> 00:43:36,570
But doing a great book proposal puts the power back in your hands so you can
negotiate for the best deal possible.

518
00:43:36,580 --> 00:43:40,330
I had a client who had an offer on the table, a great offer.

519
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,320
She called me and I said, "Write the proposal.

520
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:43,990
Write the proposal." She's like, "Are you kidding me?

521
00:43:43,990 --> 00:43:47,410
Like, they sent me the contract." And she got three times the offer.

522
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,790
She knew she wanted to be with that publisher.

523
00:43:49,790 --> 00:43:55,960
It gave you negotiating power, and I'm all about giving authors the power to
make those decisions for themselves.

524
00:43:55,990 --> 00:44:01,390
Yeah. Because when you have clarity, you can speak so much more confidently
about what you're actually bringing to the table.

525
00:44:01,390 --> 00:44:03,700
But when it's a lofty idea, it would be really hard.

526
00:44:03,700 --> 00:44:09,220
But I feel like if you walk in there with a book proposal, you can actually say
to them, "This is exactly what I'm going to talk about.

527
00:44:09,220 --> 00:44:10,390
This is how it's going to connect.

528
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:11,650
This is what I'm going to teach people.

529
00:44:11,650 --> 00:44:13,180
This is what's unique about it.

530
00:44:13,210 --> 00:44:16,840
This is what people are already asking for." I feel like that would be so
helpful.

531
00:44:17,470 --> 00:44:23,500
And social media has just opened up opportunity, too, like in that example of
Chrissy sharing the article for Shape.

532
00:44:23,500 --> 00:44:29,500
And I have a client who is a sex therapist, and she has editors from publishers
following her.

533
00:44:29,500 --> 00:44:34,380
And it's cool when you don't know who's lurking, like, not in a creepy way.

534
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:35,830
In general, by the way.

535
00:44:35,830 --> 00:44:40,730
In general. It goes beyond editors.

536
00:44:40,730 --> 00:44:42,750
Just learn a lot.

537
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,300
Lots of great people.

538
00:44:44,300 --> 00:44:49,210
But in the best sense, professionals who can help you get your book done.

539
00:44:49,210 --> 00:44:59,140
But I think it's a great sort of reminder to be conscious in the way that we're
teaching, and sharing, and being consistent about it because you just never know
where the opportunities are

540
00:44:59,140 --> 00:44:59,980
going to come from.

541
00:45:00,190 --> 00:45:05,960
And you actually were so helpful in teaching this golden nugget I want to pass
on to other people.

542
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:15,790
Once I had my head around what's the book going to be about, what's the general
premise, then you started telling me like, "Make sure that you're actually
teaching about those topics, so that if

543
00:45:15,790 --> 00:45:25,600
someone goes and looks at 30,000 foot view of your business, do they see some
blog posts about this, if you have a podcast, or a YouTube video, or whatever." 
But making sure that you're actually

544
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,010
touching on those things and that they really are my core teaching areas, I
guess.

545
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:38,380
It's interesting because I think a few years ago, publishers weren't looking so
specifically at people's businesses, and now they are.

546
00:45:38,380 --> 00:45:46,360
So, the client who went through my book proposal program - and he's got this
really killer book idea - we built out the proposal, it's so, so good.

547
00:45:46,690 --> 00:45:49,500
And he sent it to a few agents that were all like, "I'm obsessed with you.

548
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:57,100
I love this. I can see the need for this." But there's no place in your
business where you can use this as a tool.

549
00:45:57,100 --> 00:46:02,890
That's what I mean about that disconnect between what you want to write about
and your core expertise.

550
00:46:02,890 --> 00:46:07,290
And while it was his core expertise, there was no offering in his business to
sell it long term.

551
00:46:07,300 --> 00:46:16,900
So, he actually hit pause and said, "I'm going to go build an arm of my
business that supports this." And I have no doubt that once that's up and
running, publishers will come

552
00:46:17,770 --> 00:46:20,530
knocking down the door because it's so good.

553
00:46:20,530 --> 00:46:25,600
But publishers want to know that you have a way to sell it for the long haul.

554
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:30,580
And that's probably what has attracted people to their community.

555
00:46:31,390 --> 00:46:38,740
I mean, the legal thing that I always compare this to is, don't sell people
health coaching and then talk about vacuums, that's what I always say.

556
00:46:38,740 --> 00:46:44,470
Like, from a legal perspective, that's not okay because of a whole canned spam
act thing.

557
00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:51,950
But, also, I think from a marketing perspective, it wouldn't make any sense if
I came out now with a self-help book or something.

558
00:46:51,950 --> 00:46:53,470
But it's also the end of the road.

559
00:46:53,470 --> 00:47:01,090
And I think going back to what we were talking about before, for example, if I
sold a self-help book, that would be the end of the revenue road for me just
buying the book.

560
00:47:01,090 --> 00:47:03,730
And we've now just talked about the fact that books don't make you money.

561
00:47:03,730 --> 00:47:05,580
So then, what the heck is the point?

562
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:10,060
Like, the book should be an entry point to the larger thing in your business,
at least from my perspective.

563
00:47:11,230 --> 00:47:15,840
A hundred percent. And by the way, your podcast has got me thinking about the
way I respond to people in my DMs.

564
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,940
Because I get people who are like, "What agent would you recommend?

565
00:47:19,940 --> 00:47:27,470
What do you think about this book idea?" Number one, I can't make any of those
decisions without being so immersed in what you do and who you are.

566
00:47:27,470 --> 00:47:34,790
But it's interesting because I could see now how any type of response in those
situations could be problematic.

567
00:47:34,820 --> 00:47:36,110
It can be.

568
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:42,740
We just have no idea what the person on the other end of this question.

569
00:47:43,730 --> 00:47:53,510
You know that I'm obsessed with cooking, Richelle loves cooking, too, but I
always think about this when chefs will talk about this on social media, they'll
get asked a question about

570
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:55,340
something about the recipe or changing the recipe.

571
00:47:55,340 --> 00:47:58,380
And they're like, "I need to know what altitude you're cooking at.

572
00:47:58,380 --> 00:47:59,590
And what kind of oven you have.

573
00:47:59,590 --> 00:48:01,430
And whether your oven is even to temperature.

574
00:48:01,820 --> 00:48:03,680
Are you cooking on gas? Are you cooking an electric?

575
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,000
What are the tools you're using?

576
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,940
Are you using cast iron?" There are so many elements.

577
00:48:07,940 --> 00:48:09,740
And whenever they talk about that, I'm like, "Yeah.

578
00:48:09,740 --> 00:48:19,490
That's exactly what it's like for us." When you get a DM from somebody, whether
they're asking about a book or their health or fitness or their money or their
career, it's like there are nine million questions that have to

579
00:48:19,490 --> 00:48:25,460
be answered, let alone all the legal problems that come up from all of that.

580
00:48:25,460 --> 00:48:27,770
So, yes.

581
00:48:27,770 --> 00:48:37,580
One of the biggest things that I wanted to ask you, because this is something I
really wish I would have heard someone answer back in the day, is, what are
three things that someone should do right now

582
00:48:37,610 --> 00:48:41,840
if they know that they want to write a book, but they've not taken any steps to
do so yet?

583
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,970
Yeah. Read books.

584
00:48:44,970 --> 00:48:45,050
That's the first one.

585
00:48:45,050 --> 00:48:53,450
It's such a hilariously basic answer, but it's true.

586
00:48:53,450 --> 00:49:01,380
I think the more that we read and the more that we consume in our genre, we
start to see what we like and what we don't like about certain books.

587
00:49:01,380 --> 00:49:05,210
And it helps get the wheels turning about what we want to create.

588
00:49:05,210 --> 00:49:09,080
So, that's sort of entry level answer.

589
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:15,090
The second is - throwback to the platform - start experimenting.

590
00:49:15,090 --> 00:49:24,980
Start dabbling with talking, and teaching, and doing videos, and Instagram
Lives, or all the things you want to do around that topic, because there's

591
00:49:24,980 --> 00:49:29,150
often a gap between what we want to write and what people actually want from
us.

592
00:49:30,020 --> 00:49:38,480
And the more that we can experiment, and gather that feedback, and use it to
create our book ideas, the more power we have to create something our community
wants.

593
00:49:39,770 --> 00:49:41,130
So, there's that, "Okay.

594
00:49:41,130 --> 00:49:50,870
If this is what I want to write -" if I want to write about meditation or yoga
or how to run a YouTube business, I want to

595
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:54,770
see you out there having some of those conversations and experimenting a little
bit.

596
00:49:55,820 --> 00:50:05,780
And then, three - and this is a tough one because there's a few in my mind - I
would say this is something I give my group students as a task before

597
00:50:05,780 --> 00:50:12,970
we begin, go on Amazon and not in a snarky way, but start looking at some of
the books in your genre.

598
00:50:12,970 --> 00:50:22,640
Like, if you know you want to write a prescriptive memoir, you might look at - I
don't know - probably 90 percent of the books on your shelf would fall into that
category.

599
00:50:23,510 --> 00:50:33,300
But if you know you want to write about childhood trauma or loneliness or
entrepreneurship, search that category and look at some of the leaders in that
space.

600
00:50:33,300 --> 00:50:36,920
And then, go beyond that and click on the one and two star reviews.

601
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,690
And this is what I mean about this is not snarky.

602
00:50:38,690 --> 00:50:39,800
This is intel.

603
00:50:40,970 --> 00:50:42,560
This is just how we strategize.

604
00:50:42,890 --> 00:50:50,150
Rule out the reviews that are like, "This was terrible," or "There was a page
missing," or any of those things that doesn't tell me anything.

605
00:50:50,150 --> 00:51:00,140
But there are often reviews that say, "This was really great and motivational,
but I didn't know what to do once I was inspired." Or, "I felt like the tone was
a little

606
00:51:00,140 --> 00:51:03,350
bit this or that." There's this intel that we can get.

607
00:51:03,350 --> 00:51:11,080
And what happens more often than not, especially for my clients, is it energizes
them because they go, "Oh, my gosh.

608
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,160
I see where I fit in the market now.

609
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:23,000
I see where my voice, and my story, and my formula, or protocol, or whatever I
do, my framework, I see how it fits in the market now." And so, it's

610
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:28,070
both research and it helps energize you to get really clear on where you want
to go.

611
00:51:28,340 --> 00:51:30,680
Yeah. That's super, super helpful.

612
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:40,250
I always think of an ice sculpture that starts out as a rectangle, and you're
kind of taking the chainsaw and making the little carvings.

613
00:51:40,250 --> 00:51:50,180
And so, one of the books Richelle has behind her is Maybe You Should Talk to
Someone by Lori Gottlieb, and I remember when I read that and I really liked the
book a lot.

614
00:51:50,180 --> 00:51:57,470
And then, I remember I read the reviews, and there were so many reviews being
like, "I found her tone condescending," or "I found that she was too
self-involved."

615
00:51:57,470 --> 00:52:04,690
And I was like, "Wow. That wasn't my takeaway at all." And so, it was
interesting for me to say like, "Well, that was the kind of book that I was
attracted to.

616
00:52:04,690 --> 00:52:10,360
That speaks to me." And so, it just kind of helps me to find my voice, I guess,
as a writer.

617
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:16,600
Exactly right. And I should preface all of that by saying your book is not going
to please everyone or nothing you does.

618
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:16,610
Or anything you do ever.

619
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:25,540
So, when it's tonal comments or this vibe or whatever it is, if that's not a
match, it's not going to be a match for everybody.

620
00:52:25,540 --> 00:52:30,220
But what it can make you conscious of is, how do I want to integrate stories
beyond my own?

621
00:52:30,250 --> 00:52:34,120
Do I have anecdotal stories, client stories, success stories?

622
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:38,610
How do I want to move beyond myself to create more of a balance in the tone?

623
00:52:38,620 --> 00:52:45,570
So, yeah, there's a lot to be discovered, and I don't expect when people go
through that exercise that they're going to know how to make sense of everything
that they discover.

624
00:52:45,580 --> 00:52:49,840
But that's where someone like me or a coach will come help you dissect it and
go, "Okay.

625
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:51,970
This is what's really valid about what we found here.

626
00:52:51,970 --> 00:52:56,020
And these are the things that are just like someone was having a bad day." We 
can't judge that.

627
00:52:56,650 --> 00:52:59,730
Yeah. Triggering them for some reason.

628
00:52:59,740 --> 00:53:02,950
We call them Lynn at Sam Vander Wielen LLC.

629
00:53:03,820 --> 00:53:05,470
Those are Lynns.

630
00:53:05,470 --> 00:53:06,730
Lynns make it in the book too.

631
00:53:06,730 --> 00:53:07,960
Lynn is making it into the book.

632
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,550
She's really made quite an impact.

633
00:53:11,410 --> 00:53:21,190
Because you have been doing this now for so long, what would you say are some
of the biggest changes or shifts that you're experiencing right now in the
industry and what you

634
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:24,640
foresee a little foreshadowing of what you see coming in the book publishing
industry?

635
00:53:25,780 --> 00:53:31,060
I mean, I think more than anything, more choice for authors, more routes of
publishing.

636
00:53:31,630 --> 00:53:36,910
I think for so long, it was traditional or self-publish and there were huge
gaps in that.

637
00:53:36,910 --> 00:53:46,840
A lot of the books that were being self-published, people weren't getting
support or didn't know how they were going to sell it, didn't have a promotional
or marketing plan ready

638
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,910
to go, there wasn't the prep work.

639
00:53:49,180 --> 00:53:51,750
Now, I think there's more options for self-publishing.

640
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:54,700
And, now, we're seeing hybrid publishing, obviously, take a real hold in the
market.

641
00:53:55,750 --> 00:54:03,400
I will say that there are hybrid publishers that do this very well and then
there are some, just like any industry, that can feel a little off.

642
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,610
So, you know, you're going to want to do your research.

643
00:54:05,610 --> 00:54:10,510
And I'm always happy to give a few recommendations of who I've worked with
previously and my clients have.

644
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:20,800
Page Two is great if you are writing, especially, for women entrepreneurs or
writing personal story primarily for women, they're great health books

645
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:30,160
. For any of the listeners that are writing very strong business books or sort
of social justice and things like that, there is a great publisher named
Amplify.

646
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:33,870
Most people have heard of She Writes, which is great.

647
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,010
You just want to do your due diligence.

648
00:54:36,010 --> 00:54:42,810
And make sure that if your antenna goes up about anything, that you consult a
professional to make sure that you're making a great decision.

649
00:54:42,810 --> 00:54:44,800
But just more options, in general.

650
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,740
And I think in the traditional publishing space, it's that arm of the
business.

651
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:55,240
So, the last few years, it's no surprise to anyone that a platform has been a
key part of the process.

652
00:54:55,240 --> 00:55:01,040
But, now, I've seen people get deals where they have a strong business and maybe
they just haven't been showing up on social media.

653
00:55:01,060 --> 00:55:10,760
I mean, look at a lot of the therapists, and doctors, and physicians, and
things that are getting great publishing deals and great books that have just
been in practice for 30 years,

654
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:18,400
they're smart, credentialed, well-known people that are just like, "I'm not
going to be on Instagram a lot," and that's okay.

655
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:27,010
So, it's like building that credibility in the marketplace will continue to be
important, whether it's through social media or within your business.

656
00:55:27,020 --> 00:55:29,530
So, just getting that honed in.

657
00:55:29,710 --> 00:55:35,040
And I think we're starting to see more diversity in publishing.

658
00:55:35,740 --> 00:55:37,390
I was going to ask you, what about representation?

659
00:55:37,390 --> 00:55:46,840
It makes me so happy that publishers really have opened their eyes to the fact
that we need to learn from diverse voices and

660
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,670
amplify diverse voices.

661
00:55:48,670 --> 00:55:52,030
So, that's really a huge shift.

662
00:55:52,030 --> 00:56:01,300
Thank God, my friend Bex Borucki started her own publishing company, so we might
see more of that, Row House Publishers, where she publishes diverse voices and
experiences

663
00:56:02,230 --> 00:56:02,890
.

664
00:56:02,890 --> 00:56:02,900
Cool. That's awesome.

665
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:07,540
And as a result of not feeling that that existed in traditional publishing.

666
00:56:07,540 --> 00:56:11,620
So, now, there's definitely more awareness, which is great.

667
00:56:11,770 --> 00:56:13,060
What else? I don't know.

668
00:56:13,060 --> 00:56:15,460
You know, the second we get off this interview, I'm going to think of one more
thing.

669
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:16,990
But those are the primary things I'm thinking.

670
00:56:16,990 --> 00:56:18,100
Those are all pretty good things.

671
00:56:18,110 --> 00:56:19,660
Those are all pretty good.

672
00:56:19,660 --> 00:56:22,690
I was going to ask you about representation, BIPOC voices.

673
00:56:22,690 --> 00:56:26,140
I definitely feel like I see that on the fiction side - I read a lot of fiction
.

674
00:56:26,300 --> 00:56:29,140
So, I feel like I've gotten more diverse stories.

675
00:56:29,140 --> 00:56:30,550
I mean, these stories have always existed.

676
00:56:30,550 --> 00:56:38,680
I think the fact that we just don't get to see them very often and they are
probably not being given the same opportunities and platforms and exposure.

677
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,060
So, I hope that that is getting better.

678
00:56:40,060 --> 00:56:45,370
I also hope that the equity, and payouts, and things like that is getting
better.

679
00:56:45,970 --> 00:56:47,260
Yeah. Exactly.

680
00:56:47,470 --> 00:56:50,170
Actually, that makes me think of one more thing - two more things, actually.

681
00:56:50,170 --> 00:56:53,950
One is that, I think we'll start to see more creative contracts in traditional
publishing.

682
00:56:54,900 --> 00:57:00,830
Whereas, traditionally, the biggest chunk is the advance and then everything
breaks down after that.

683
00:57:00,850 --> 00:57:07,360
I think, now, we might start to see if it's a more modest advance sales
bonuses and some of those things being more prominent.

684
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:13,170
They're happening already, but it's not as prominent, or sort of rev share
models, things like that.

685
00:57:13,170 --> 00:57:16,290
So, I think people will start getting more creative with contracts.

686
00:57:16,340 --> 00:57:20,640
I mean, I think more equitable contracts as well.

687
00:57:20,670 --> 00:57:22,050
Yeah. I hope so, too.

688
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:26,150
Maybe that'll have to be a template in my future.

689
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:32,140
But I'm also, do you all make equitable publishing contracts?

690
00:57:32,140 --> 00:57:42,030
I would just love for you to speak quickly a little bit to that person who feels
like, "I can't write a book until I have a huge following." I was stuck in that
mindset for a

691
00:57:42,030 --> 00:57:49,590
long time. And I think, you know, talking about maybe how to balance what
you're suggesting to people, which is like, focus on that community.

692
00:57:49,590 --> 00:57:54,070
And I know that you're talking more about depth of community versus metrics.

693
00:57:54,070 --> 00:58:04,050
But how do you do that while not staying there too long and being like, "I can't
publish this business," or "I can't even start to work on a proposal because I'm
not big

694
00:58:04,050 --> 00:58:04,710
enough yet."

695
00:58:04,980 --> 00:58:09,810
I mean, it's interesting because I think they go hand-in-hand in a way.

696
00:58:09,930 --> 00:58:17,250
And, again, I want to throw back to my many clients who have had smaller
platforms and still gotten really great deals from major publishers.

697
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:18,390
It's a factor.

698
00:58:18,390 --> 00:58:19,740
It's not the end all, be all.

699
00:58:19,740 --> 00:58:22,530
So, don't let it stop you from writing the book.

700
00:58:22,530 --> 00:58:26,960
But I think that the biggest piece of advice at the beginning of the process is
to niche down.

701
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,230
And I say all the time, a book that's for everybody is a book that's for nobody.

702
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:40,140
And I think when people are starting out, their scope is so wide, that if they
just brought the walls in a little bit and got really

703
00:58:40,140 --> 00:58:47,820
clear on what aspect of what they do, they want to write about, then it starts
to energize how you show up online.

704
00:58:47,820 --> 00:58:55,530
And so, you get to then have more confidence in teaching, and being more public
facing, and getting really specific in what you do.

705
00:58:55,530 --> 00:58:58,930
I mean, look, my whole business are book proposals.

706
00:58:58,930 --> 00:59:01,130
Do I edit full books? Nope.

707
00:59:01,130 --> 00:59:07,320
And people ask me that all the time, I'm like, "I know my lane." And so, that
makes me a really strong expert voice.

708
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,600
And so, I own that.

709
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:19,410
And so, if you have a very broad lens for what your business is, I would ask
you to sort of start shrinking that in to a focal point that's going to help
you,

710
00:59:19,590 --> 00:59:24,480
not only create a better book idea, but help you show up on your platform in a
more effective way.

711
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:26,030
That's really helpful.

712
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:27,090
Yeah, it's really helpful.

713
00:59:27,420 --> 00:59:37,020
My last question for you before we get into, what I'm labeling as, Fun Q&A - 
we'll see what Richelle thinks later, stay tuned -

714
00:59:37,020 --> 00:59:47,010
was about whether it's possible to write a book nowadays on your terms while
also still getting it published and actually putting

715
00:59:47,010 --> 00:59:48,150
it out into the world?

716
00:59:48,450 --> 00:59:49,890
Yes, 100 percent.

717
00:59:49,890 --> 00:59:54,810
I mean, that is what's so great about this time in publishing and all the
options that we have.

718
00:59:54,810 --> 01:00:01,080
And it's not that choosing a route other than traditional publishing is any
type of failure.

719
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:07,020
It's you making a decision that fits your life, and your business, and the joy,
and the experience you want to have in the process.

720
01:00:07,020 --> 01:00:10,710
So, it's much more empowering than it ever has been before.

721
01:00:10,740 --> 01:00:20,730
Even now that you're saying that, I'm thinking even the route that you choose to
publish the book can be on your terms because that can be to your timeline, the
way you want to tell the story, the way you want

722
01:00:20,730 --> 01:00:22,980
to control the marketing and publishing of that book.

723
01:00:22,980 --> 01:00:28,830
Like, I was always thinking of it from a storytelling perspective and having
somebody kind of whittle down or water down your story.

724
01:00:28,830 --> 01:00:32,670
But that makes a lot of sense too.

725
01:00:32,670 --> 01:00:34,050
All right. Well, that was so helpful.

726
01:00:34,140 --> 01:00:40,680
So, I'm going to force you to come back one day so that we can talk about kind
of the next phase because you're also, obviously, a marketing PR expert.

727
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:46,710
So, for people who maybe already have self-published, we'll talk about
marketing or we'll talk about those people who might be in the book writing
phase.

728
01:00:47,010 --> 01:00:51,000
But with that, I want to get into our Fun Q&A.

729
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:55,380
I know the answer to some of these already for you, but I'm going to force you
to do it anyway.

730
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:00,840
Would you rather read fiction or nonfiction?

731
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:08,460
Nonfiction. It's a pretty even balance, like, I'm drawn to nonfiction because a
little bit of it is research and, also, I like self-improvement things.

732
01:01:08,460 --> 01:01:09,780
I like things to open my eyes.

733
01:01:09,900 --> 01:01:14,170
But if I really want to get lost in something, it might be fiction.

734
01:01:14,190 --> 01:01:17,160
Well, is there a great non-fiction book you've read lately that you would
recommend?

735
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:22,180
Yeah. I mean, I really love Dying to Be a Good Mother.

736
01:01:22,180 --> 01:01:23,940
It's nonfiction, part memoir.

737
01:01:23,970 --> 01:01:25,500
I really loved Untamed.

738
01:01:25,770 --> 01:01:27,210
Oh, yeah. Untamed was really good.

739
01:01:27,330 --> 01:01:30,960
Have you read Crying in H Mart yet?

740
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:31,230
No.

741
01:01:31,230 --> 01:01:32,310
I can't wait to read that.

742
01:01:32,940 --> 01:01:36,360
After the post move, I was like, I can't wait to read Crying in H Mart.

743
01:01:36,690 --> 01:01:37,380
I'm really excited about that.

744
01:01:37,380 --> 01:01:38,520
I want to read that.

745
01:01:38,580 --> 01:01:42,510
I'm reading Casey Wilson's memoir right now, The Wreckage of My Presence.

746
01:01:42,510 --> 01:01:49,230
And it's both hilarious and deep, those are my qualifiers for a great book.

747
01:01:49,230 --> 01:01:52,910
Like, can you make me cry, and laugh, and smore, and sob?

748
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,960
At the same time. Yeah, that's a pretty good qualifier.

749
01:01:55,980 --> 01:02:00,090
All right. We'll try to link to those below.

750
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:04,560
Okay. Would you rather live at the beach, in the mountains, or at the desert?

751
01:02:05,100 --> 01:02:06,900
Oh, the beach.

752
01:02:06,900 --> 01:02:11,180
I mean, I'm a Southern California girl up until I moved to New York.

753
01:02:11,180 --> 01:02:12,360
And I love being near the water.

754
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:17,040
In fact, my apartment in New York is on the water because, just, I need it.

755
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:17,310
You need it.

756
01:02:17,310 --> 01:02:18,820
I need it.

757
01:02:18,820 --> 01:02:19,620
Yeah.

758
01:02:19,620 --> 01:02:22,140
Come visit, there's a lot of water here.

759
01:02:22,140 --> 01:02:23,930
But I love to vacation in the desert.

760
01:02:23,940 --> 01:02:29,790
It's funny, I have a friend that lives in, like, Gilbert, Scottsdale, Arizona
area.

761
01:02:30,180 --> 01:02:37,080
And so, when I'm out there and in the desert, like, there's something so
calming about that, just like the spaciousness and the heat.

762
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:40,380
Have you ever done an astrological chart reading with Jen?

763
01:02:40,590 --> 01:02:41,910
Did you do one with Jen?

764
01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:42,870
With Jen? Yeah.

765
01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:45,540
Did she tell you you had a lot of water and fire signs?

766
01:02:45,750 --> 01:02:48,270
I mean, I'm like fire, fire, fire up and down.

767
01:02:48,270 --> 01:02:53,250
But I think the balance to that in the day-to-day is the water.

768
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,180
Yeah. Because I needed water, but I also needed more earth.

769
01:02:57,540 --> 01:03:05,580
But she told one of my friends that being around the desert, if she couldn't
live there, then at least going there many times a year was really important to
her sign.

770
01:03:05,590 --> 01:03:07,650
So, I was wondering whether she told you that.

771
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,180
I can get very zen in the desert.

772
01:03:09,180 --> 01:03:11,220
That's so interesting.

773
01:03:11,250 --> 01:03:14,700
All right. Would you rather have coffee or tea?

774
01:03:14,700 --> 01:03:14,710
Coffee.

775
01:03:14,730 --> 01:03:18,510
What's your go to coffee order?

776
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,490
Right now, it's coconut milk latte iced.

777
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,130
Do go somewhere near you in New York?

778
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:31,200
It's funny, when I'm walking Cooper to school, yes, I will go to either
Starbucks or there's a place called Jacks.

779
01:03:31,620 --> 01:03:38,820
But I've been ordering a gigantic box of cold brew from La Colombe.

780
01:03:39,570 --> 01:03:43,410
Oh, yeah. Philly's own La Colombe.

781
01:03:43,410 --> 01:03:47,990
It's so good. It's so good. It's like I have the spout coming out of the fridge 
and so that's most often what I do.

782
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,520
That's what you do. And then, you put your own coconut milk in there?

783
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:51,200
I do. Yeah.

784
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:52,950
That sounds really good. And always iced?

785
01:03:54,270 --> 01:03:57,840
In the heat. And then, my winter brew is a little bit more confusing.

786
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:04,530
I do have Lavazza Dark Roast and half Illy medium roast.

787
01:04:04,530 --> 01:04:07,860
I do a scoop of each and then in the grounds in my coffee pot.

788
01:04:08,010 --> 01:04:11,110
I shake a little cinnamon and stir it into the grounds.

789
01:04:11,130 --> 01:04:12,000
I'm telling you you'll never go back.

790
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,610
So good. I know.

791
01:04:13,610 --> 01:04:15,260
That is so good. I love that too.

792
01:04:15,260 --> 01:04:16,900
All right.

793
01:04:16,900 --> 01:04:17,970
I know you love to cook, too.

794
01:04:17,970 --> 01:04:21,840
So, when you cook, do you clean up as you go or clean up at the end?

795
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:24,120
This is a great question.

796
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:30,120
I dump in the sink as I go and then my husband does the dishwasher.

797
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:31,870
That's the marital agreement.

798
01:04:32,490 --> 01:04:34,440
Richelle does the hybrid option of cleaning.

799
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:36,330
My mom is a real cleanup as you go.

800
01:04:36,330 --> 01:04:39,930
Like, is loading the dishwasher as she cooks, and I have such admiration for
that.

801
01:04:40,150 --> 01:04:42,430
I am not that way, but I will dump in the sink.

802
01:04:42,450 --> 01:04:50,290
Yeah. I have a friend who her and her husband had to have a talk, and they
decided that they had to clean up at least before they sat down to eat.

803
01:04:50,290 --> 01:04:54,840
Because they found that if they sat down to eat and then cleaned up after, it
was like so miserable and stressful.

804
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:56,470
So, they agreed.

805
01:04:56,470 --> 01:04:57,450
I thought that was really smart.

806
01:04:57,450 --> 01:04:58,320
I would agree with that.

807
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:02,970
Good hybrid option. Would you rather go to a fancy restaurant or hit up the best
food trucks?

808
01:05:04,590 --> 01:05:08,130
Oh, food trucks, like, 99 percent of the time.

809
01:05:08,130 --> 01:05:09,330
Do you have a favorite one? Into The Waffles, is it called Dingle?

810
01:05:10,170 --> 01:05:11,910
Waffles and Dingies or something like that.

811
01:05:15,740 --> 01:05:19,920
Yeah, that is good. There's also a grilled cheese one, I want to say it was full
of grilled cheese.

812
01:05:20,130 --> 01:05:24,070
I love a Hole-In-The-Wall Mexican situation too.

813
01:05:24,070 --> 01:05:24,540
Like, really good Mexican food, taco stand.

814
01:05:24,550 --> 01:05:25,830
Taco trucks.

815
01:05:25,830 --> 01:05:25,840
Especially taco stand, yeah.

816
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:25,850
That's the California girl in you.

817
01:05:26,130 --> 01:05:27,450
Yeah. Yeah.

818
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:37,950
If it's my birthday, because I'm such a Leo - you know this - it's going to be a
fancy restaurant with, like, 15 people.

819
01:05:38,130 --> 01:05:40,980
What's your favorite fancy restaurant you've gone to in New York?

820
01:05:41,370 --> 01:05:43,680
Oh, gosh. I mean, I love Scarpetta.

821
01:05:43,710 --> 01:05:47,170
I loved the Four Seasons before it shifted.

822
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:48,690
I haven't been back since.

823
01:05:48,870 --> 01:05:51,780
And my mother-in-law also enjoys the fancy meal.

824
01:05:51,780 --> 01:05:57,680
So, often, my meals have been with her, so we do a lot of the Jean-Georges
Restaurants and things like that.

825
01:05:57,690 --> 01:06:00,330
They always taste better when you're not paying for it.

826
01:06:00,420 --> 01:06:02,130
You and I have to go. Yeah, it does taste a little sweeter.

827
01:06:02,130 --> 01:06:03,990
There's something about that.

828
01:06:04,410 --> 01:06:06,360
You and I definitely have to go to something.

829
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:12,300
I'm dying to go to Eleven Madison Park now, especially now that they're
plant-based, even though they would do like a custom menu before.

830
01:06:12,300 --> 01:06:16,320
But I am mostly vegetarian, so I'm very excited about that.

831
01:06:16,330 --> 01:06:17,770
Yes. Come and we'll go.

832
01:06:18,180 --> 01:06:25,190
I'm down. My American Express gets you a reservation - shoutout to Amex - 
because they hook you up with the reservation.

833
01:06:25,270 --> 01:06:26,520
They're amazing.

834
01:06:26,970 --> 01:06:35,400
Okay. Last question because it's you, would you rather read a physical book
like paperback or e-book?

835
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,030
Physical book 100 percent. I don't even know where my Kindle is.

836
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:39,150
I can't do it.

837
01:06:39,150 --> 01:06:41,730
I can't do it. I can't connect to the material in the same way.

838
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:43,020
No. It's not the same. It's really annoying.

839
01:06:43,020 --> 01:06:45,120
I can't even do audio books, really.

840
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:45,990
I really like to hold it in my hands.

841
01:06:46,030 --> 01:06:53,130
I get super distracted, and it probably doesn't help that the only audio book I
ever tried listening to is Rachel Hollis.

842
01:06:53,130 --> 01:06:56,980
And, like, 37 seconds in, I was like, "No play, guys.

843
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,030
You're gone." So, it's just-

844
01:07:00,630 --> 01:07:04,080
This is the hard part, like, if the voice doesn't resonate, then it's going to
be a miss.

845
01:07:05,110 --> 01:07:06,640
I called that one years ago.

846
01:07:07,670 --> 01:07:09,950
Not for me.

847
01:07:09,970 --> 01:07:12,620
Well, thank you so much, Richelle, for doing this.

848
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:13,730
This was so helpful.

849
01:07:13,750 --> 01:07:21,520
Will you tell everybody, not only where to find you, but what you've got coming
up and how they could work with you if they love you as much as I love you
already?

850
01:07:22,570 --> 01:07:23,770
Oh, thank you.

851
01:07:24,100 --> 01:07:27,250
So, purposefulplatforms.com is the website.

852
01:07:27,850 --> 01:07:31,100
You can follow me on Instagram @richellefredson.

853
01:07:31,100 --> 01:07:39,400
And the podcast, as you mentioned, is Bound & Determined with Richelle Fredson,
where I teach, I interview industry experts, all the things.

854
01:07:39,430 --> 01:07:49,330
I have a group coaching program called The Book Proposal Blueprint, and I take
people through a ten week program of creating their book proposal from the
ground up and helping them navigate

855
01:07:49,330 --> 01:07:50,760
the agent process.

856
01:07:50,770 --> 01:07:53,880
And I also work with people one-on-one throughout the year.

857
01:07:53,890 --> 01:07:57,890
So, if you're curious, just hit me up, and we can talk about it.

858
01:07:57,910 --> 01:08:07,360
That's awesome. And it sounds like for anybody who was listening today and
probably really had their eyes open to a lot of things that Richelle taught you,
it sounds like The Blueprint might be a good fit, if the

859
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:09,490
one-to-one isn't right for you at the moment.

860
01:08:09,490 --> 01:08:16,480
And you told me earlier that by the time people listen to this episode, you'll
be enrolling for the February cohort of that.

861
01:08:16,510 --> 01:08:18,070
Exactly right. February 8th.

862
01:08:18,430 --> 01:08:24,550
Cool. And the best way for them to get into that is to just reach out to you
through email/social.

863
01:08:24,550 --> 01:08:28,990
Purposefulplatforms.com, click on the Group Coaching tab and there's a way to
set up a consult.

864
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:30,230
Oh, perfect. Okay.

865
01:08:30,230 --> 01:08:36,190
So, we'll make sure we have that link for everybody, and we'll give you all the
links to find Richelle, and the podcast, and everything in between.

866
01:08:36,220 --> 01:08:39,130
Thank you so much, Richelle, for being my first podcast guest.

867
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:40,450
Thank you for having me.

868
01:08:40,450 --> 01:08:41,350
This is so fun.

869
01:08:45,850 --> 01:08:48,620
Thanks so much for listening to the On Your Terms podcast.

870
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:53,290
Make sure to follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen
to podcasts.

871
01:08:53,320 --> 01:09:00,340
You can also check out all of our podcast episodes, show notes, links, and more
at samvanderwielen.com/podcast.

872
01:09:00,370 --> 01:09:08,840
You can learn more about legally protecting your business and take my free
legal workshop, Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow Your Online Business at
samvanderwielen.com.

873
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:14,510
And to stay connected and follow along, follow me on Instagram
@samvanderwielen, and send me a DM to say hi.

©

874
01:09:14,510 --> 01:09:14,730
2022 Sam Vander Wielen LLC | All Rights Reserved | Any use of this intellectual 
property owned by Sam Vander Wielen LLC may not be used in connection with the 
sale or distribution of any content (free or paid, written or verbal), product,

875
01:09:14,730 --> 01:09:14,860
and/or service by you without prior written consent from Sam Vander Wielen LLC.