1 00:00:00,170 --> 00:00:03,918 Hello and welcome to 2 00:00:04,004 --> 00:00:07,354 another episode of The Traveling Introvert. 3 00:00:07,402 --> 00:00:10,554 And of course, this is the Career Conversations segment. 4 00:00:10,682 --> 00:00:13,390 I would like to welcome our guest here today. 5 00:00:13,460 --> 00:00:15,600 It's Mike. Mike, how are you? 6 00:00:17,010 --> 00:00:21,230 I'm doing wonderful. It's a beautiful day out here in San Francisco, 7 00:00:21,890 --> 00:00:25,954 in the Bayview. More specific, leave the neighborhood 8 00:00:26,002 --> 00:00:29,942 of Hunters Point Bayview in a new community called the 9 00:00:29,996 --> 00:00:33,014 San Francisco Shipyard. Okay, 10 00:00:33,052 --> 00:00:35,750 now I want to know more, but I'm not going to get sidetracked. 11 00:00:37,470 --> 00:00:41,114 Mike, first question I ask everybody is, are you 12 00:00:41,152 --> 00:00:44,902 an introvert? I am an introvert. 13 00:00:44,966 --> 00:00:48,778 I took the Brighmires test a while back. 14 00:00:48,944 --> 00:00:52,526 I'm an INFJ. Or I was an 15 00:00:52,548 --> 00:00:56,126 INFJ. I think I 16 00:00:56,148 --> 00:00:59,950 might be, like, an extroverted introvert now. Okay, 17 00:01:00,020 --> 00:01:02,240 and what does introversion mean to you? 18 00:01:05,910 --> 00:01:08,980 So growing up, I was a shy kid. 19 00:01:11,430 --> 00:01:13,650 I kind of like being left alone, 20 00:01:18,970 --> 00:01:22,120 just kind of being like, 21 00:01:23,530 --> 00:01:27,538 tensive quiet. Like I 22 00:01:27,564 --> 00:01:30,938 said, I was shy. So I think 23 00:01:31,104 --> 00:01:34,346 for me, like, introversion just the word introversion is 24 00:01:34,368 --> 00:01:38,650 just thinking 25 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:39,340 within. 26 00:01:41,570 --> 00:01:45,342 And would you say that that has helped you 27 00:01:45,396 --> 00:01:46,590 in your career? 28 00:01:53,260 --> 00:01:55,610 Well, the work that I used to do in tech, 29 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:02,700 well, first I started off as a designer 30 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:07,390 designing websites starting back in 1995. 31 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,656 I was a concert promoter in college, so I had to design the 32 00:02:12,678 --> 00:02:16,480 concert posters. And I had a buddy of mine, Chris Jensen, 33 00:02:16,900 --> 00:02:21,280 who helped teach me desktop publishing. 34 00:02:23,620 --> 00:02:27,344 So working in tech, 35 00:02:27,462 --> 00:02:31,532 I was used to just putting on my headphones 36 00:02:31,676 --> 00:02:34,872 and just doing work 37 00:02:34,966 --> 00:02:38,810 and just kind of keeping to myself. 38 00:02:39,660 --> 00:02:42,330 So in that regards, yeah, 39 00:02:43,740 --> 00:02:47,804 introversion has helped me out because it 40 00:02:47,842 --> 00:02:51,052 allows you to just kind of think about 41 00:02:51,106 --> 00:02:54,316 things for 42 00:02:54,338 --> 00:02:55,870 the most part, like by yourself. 43 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,576 I think in that regard, introversion has. Helped me out and 44 00:03:02,678 --> 00:03:07,264 I guess have your workplaces been set 45 00:03:07,302 --> 00:03:10,850 up in such a way to enable you to do that deep work by yourself? 46 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:18,644 They have, yeah. Working as my 47 00:03:18,682 --> 00:03:23,044 first job was well, 48 00:03:23,082 --> 00:03:26,484 I worked for a company called Creative Internet 49 00:03:26,532 --> 00:03:29,370 Design in Pasadena in 1997. 50 00:03:30,220 --> 00:03:33,332 It was just myself, Ari Petrajaska, 51 00:03:33,476 --> 00:03:37,130 who was one of three co founders of 52 00:03:37,500 --> 00:03:42,156 Creative Internet Design, but his other two founders left to 53 00:03:42,178 --> 00:03:45,420 go work for MGM Studios, 54 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,504 and there was a female engineer, 55 00:03:50,552 --> 00:03:54,816 so it was just the three of us. So I 56 00:03:54,838 --> 00:03:58,130 basically just put on my headphones and do my work. 57 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:02,176 And then the other companies I worked for was a 58 00:04:02,198 --> 00:04:06,400 small design agency called Adjacency. Got it. Acquired by Sapien. 59 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,124 I was at Yahoo Shopping and Yahoo Travel for four 60 00:04:11,162 --> 00:04:14,596 years. I was at LinkedIn for four years, four months, and Zinger for two and 61 00:04:14,618 --> 00:04:17,892 a half years. Yeah, I own all those jobs. 62 00:04:18,036 --> 00:04:21,332 I was working as either a productions designer, 63 00:04:21,396 --> 00:04:24,788 visual designer, user interface designer, 64 00:04:24,964 --> 00:04:28,364 and I could just kind of, like, 65 00:04:28,482 --> 00:04:32,588 be working on my laptop or 66 00:04:32,754 --> 00:04:36,510 workstation with the headphones on and just work. 67 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,476 Aside from reviewing my work with my creative director 68 00:04:42,508 --> 00:04:46,480 or my team, I was pretty much left alone. 69 00:04:46,820 --> 00:04:50,336 Okay. And so you've talked about doing 70 00:04:50,358 --> 00:04:54,036 a lot of UX work and design work. Can you tell me about any 71 00:04:54,138 --> 00:04:57,732 misconceptions that people might have about your job and or 72 00:04:57,786 --> 00:04:58,580 industry. 73 00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:06,912 In terms of tech? I think of 74 00:05:07,066 --> 00:05:10,280 a lot of people think about what used to be Fang, 75 00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:13,396 facebook, Apple, 76 00:05:13,588 --> 00:05:16,040 Amazon, Netflix, 77 00:05:16,620 --> 00:05:19,824 Google now Google's Alphabet, 78 00:05:19,972 --> 00:05:22,060 and Facebook is Meta. 79 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,172 I guess people have an image of, like, techies from, like, say, 80 00:05:30,226 --> 00:05:33,584 The Social Network, the story about Mark 81 00:05:33,622 --> 00:05:35,920 Zuckerberg and his founding of Facebook. 82 00:05:37,060 --> 00:05:40,464 So I guess people have the image of techies, like, wearing t 83 00:05:40,502 --> 00:05:43,984 shirts and jeans. On my case, it was 84 00:05:44,022 --> 00:05:48,340 mostly like, t shirts and short 85 00:05:48,410 --> 00:05:50,820 pants or sweatpants. 86 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:53,830 It's kind of accurate, actually. 87 00:05:58,860 --> 00:06:02,184 I didn't ever in my career have 88 00:06:02,222 --> 00:06:07,528 to wear suit and tie until until 89 00:06:07,614 --> 00:06:13,356 I worked for Sapien. And kind 90 00:06:13,378 --> 00:06:16,732 of like when the bubble was crashing, they wanted people 91 00:06:16,786 --> 00:06:20,152 to be more professional. 92 00:06:20,216 --> 00:06:23,500 So I actually had to buy some button 93 00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:26,270 down shirts. I just got them at a thrift store. 94 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:31,280 I mean, I wasn't really meeting clients, so I'm not sure why they wanted 95 00:06:31,350 --> 00:06:35,504 the dress code. The professional 96 00:06:35,552 --> 00:06:39,364 dress code. I could go on about what professional means and 97 00:06:39,402 --> 00:06:42,390 doesn't mean, but I'm not going to. 98 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,950 Is there something actually, first question is, 99 00:06:47,340 --> 00:06:50,872 can you tell me about a connection that you have made that has 100 00:06:50,926 --> 00:06:52,250 changed your life? 101 00:06:56,620 --> 00:07:00,056 Yeah. So my first job in 102 00:07:00,078 --> 00:07:04,152 tech in the San Francisco bay 103 00:07:04,216 --> 00:07:07,980 area was with Bernie Deshant. 104 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,520 He was one of four co founders 105 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,208 of Adjacency, which started off 106 00:07:16,294 --> 00:07:19,916 in Madison, Wisconsin, and they later moved 107 00:07:19,948 --> 00:07:21,840 out to San Francisco. 108 00:07:24,020 --> 00:07:28,260 Adjacency had some incredible clients 109 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,430 considering how small they were. 110 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,260 They designed websites for Apple, 111 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:42,084 land Rover, nordstrom Tire 112 00:07:42,132 --> 00:07:45,720 Bar, specialized Bikes, 113 00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:51,396 virgin Music tag, 114 00:07:51,428 --> 00:07:54,300 Hoyer Patagonia. 115 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,110 I mean, the list was amazing. 116 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,980 They got acquired by a company called Sapient, 117 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,010 and at the time, we're about 50 people, 118 00:08:05,860 --> 00:08:09,408 actually about 57 people, they got acquired for $50 119 00:08:09,494 --> 00:08:10,770 million. 120 00:08:12,900 --> 00:08:16,240 Sapient had actually acquired a company 121 00:08:16,310 --> 00:08:19,860 called Studio Archetype that was run by Clement Mock 122 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,270 that was double our size, 123 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,084 but for half of what we got 124 00:08:28,122 --> 00:08:32,184 acquired for. So they probably had something like 110 125 00:08:32,222 --> 00:08:36,010 employees getting acquired for 25 million. 126 00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:40,840 And Clement really didn't give much stock to his employees. They were pissed 127 00:08:41,180 --> 00:08:44,888 when we got acquired because the principals, 128 00:08:44,984 --> 00:08:48,632 andrew Sather, Bernie mostly 129 00:08:48,696 --> 00:08:51,996 Andrew had equity, was very generous with 130 00:08:52,018 --> 00:08:53,790 the equity that he gave us. 131 00:08:56,100 --> 00:08:59,964 So Bernie has a really sharp 132 00:09:00,012 --> 00:09:02,720 eye, always had really good feedback. 133 00:09:04,340 --> 00:09:06,450 They kind of took a chance on me. 134 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,272 I came in as a production designer. That means that I was coding 135 00:09:12,336 --> 00:09:16,292 HTML and doing Iterative design for 136 00:09:16,346 --> 00:09:20,216 clients like Rollerblade and 137 00:09:20,318 --> 00:09:21,370 Power Bar. 138 00:09:23,260 --> 00:09:28,440 So he was really a mentor. And then I 139 00:09:28,510 --> 00:09:31,816 ended up getting diagnosed with bipolar one disorder in 140 00:09:31,838 --> 00:09:35,256 the summer of 2015 when I had my first Janice episode. 141 00:09:35,368 --> 00:09:38,716 And he's really been there during the times that 142 00:09:38,738 --> 00:09:42,604 I've been severely depressed. He's always like a 143 00:09:42,642 --> 00:09:45,856 person that's non judgmental and someone that I 144 00:09:45,878 --> 00:09:49,424 know I can reach out to when I'm in 145 00:09:49,462 --> 00:09:53,276 a depressed state. I mean, I've been so severely 146 00:09:53,308 --> 00:09:57,036 depressed where I was in Taipei, 147 00:09:57,068 --> 00:10:00,230 Taiwan, with my parents, and I spent six months 148 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,996 literally in bed and would go like, maybe a week 149 00:10:05,018 --> 00:10:09,736 or two without showering or shaving and 150 00:10:09,758 --> 00:10:13,508 not even caring that I didn't 151 00:10:13,524 --> 00:10:16,890 do any of those things in terms of well being. 152 00:10:19,020 --> 00:10:22,536 And so how different do you think your life would be if 153 00:10:22,558 --> 00:10:24,280 you hadn't made that connection? 154 00:10:28,430 --> 00:10:32,334 I mean, adjacency basically started my 155 00:10:32,372 --> 00:10:34,800 career in the San Francisco bay area. 156 00:10:36,390 --> 00:10:40,194 I had a job offer from adjacency and 157 00:10:40,312 --> 00:10:42,210 a company called circumstance. 158 00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:49,698 I got laid off from Sapient in a fourth round, 159 00:10:49,874 --> 00:10:53,074 and I had a coworker of mine that got laid off in an earlier 160 00:10:53,122 --> 00:10:55,750 round, and he got a job at yahoo. 161 00:10:56,250 --> 00:10:59,830 And he referred me into Yahoo. 162 00:11:00,890 --> 00:11:04,186 And had it not been for the fact that I had 163 00:11:04,208 --> 00:11:07,658 a job at Adjacency, I don't think 164 00:11:07,824 --> 00:11:10,300 my life would have taken a completely different course. 165 00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:13,340 I wouldn't have worked at the companies that I had. 166 00:11:13,970 --> 00:11:17,246 Yeah, okay. And so as part of that, 167 00:11:17,268 --> 00:11:22,334 and this might lead on from that, is is 168 00:11:22,372 --> 00:11:26,110 there something that you do regularly that has 169 00:11:26,180 --> 00:11:30,100 improved your life, career and or business? 170 00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:33,700 Yeah, absolutely, 100%. 171 00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:38,702 So being physically 172 00:11:38,766 --> 00:11:42,200 active, exercising is 173 00:11:42,730 --> 00:11:46,534 one of the best things to do for 174 00:11:46,572 --> 00:11:50,006 your mental health, especially when you're depressed, or in 175 00:11:50,028 --> 00:11:51,990 my case, severely depressed. 176 00:11:53,870 --> 00:11:58,038 I go to an orange theory fitness 177 00:11:58,214 --> 00:12:02,570 studio in Mission Bay in San Francisco, 178 00:12:03,230 --> 00:12:06,240 and that's something that really has helped me out. 179 00:12:08,610 --> 00:12:12,430 I reached out to Ellen lawfam, who founded 180 00:12:13,170 --> 00:12:16,914 orange Theory fitness, and she actually replied back 181 00:12:16,952 --> 00:12:20,580 to me. I let her know 182 00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:24,210 when I first started at Ordinary Fitness, 183 00:12:26,390 --> 00:12:30,238 that doing workouts 184 00:12:30,254 --> 00:12:33,686 with Ordinary Fitness was really going to be something that was going 185 00:12:33,708 --> 00:12:38,402 to help me out with my mental health. And she agreed. The says exercising 186 00:12:38,466 --> 00:12:40,470 releases like dopamines. 187 00:12:41,710 --> 00:12:45,690 In my case, I find working out and exercising 188 00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:49,882 way more effective than medication because 189 00:12:49,936 --> 00:12:53,750 the medication that I've taken in the past, lithium, 190 00:12:53,830 --> 00:12:55,870 is not good for your liver. 191 00:12:56,850 --> 00:13:00,430 I've taken medication which has made me gain weight. 192 00:13:01,330 --> 00:13:04,830 Some of the stuff even has given me, like, penal rectal dysfunction, 193 00:13:05,650 --> 00:13:08,686 and sometimes I can't 194 00:13:08,718 --> 00:13:12,354 even sleep. So right now, I'm not on 195 00:13:12,392 --> 00:13:13,570 any medication. 196 00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:20,418 I actually art directed 197 00:13:20,514 --> 00:13:23,810 a t shirt with my designer Damai 198 00:13:23,890 --> 00:13:28,162 out of Indonesia that says, orange theory fitness 199 00:13:28,226 --> 00:13:29,430 is my drug. 200 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,220 That's wonderful, and I hope to see you wearing it in 201 00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:40,276 the fitness place where you work out. 202 00:13:40,378 --> 00:13:44,464 Yeah, I've done 97 workouts 203 00:13:44,512 --> 00:13:48,650 at orange 30 fitness starting two and a half years ago. 204 00:13:49,020 --> 00:13:53,480 So on my 100th workout, 205 00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:58,216 I'm going to wear the t shirt that says, oranger fitness is 206 00:13:58,238 --> 00:14:01,772 my drug. And I'm going to get a photo with the 207 00:14:01,826 --> 00:14:06,492 staff holding a sign that celebrates my 100th 208 00:14:06,546 --> 00:14:10,216 workout. And we will then send the photo 209 00:14:10,248 --> 00:14:14,224 of the t shirt to the owner of the franchise in 210 00:14:14,262 --> 00:14:18,620 San Francisco to see if we can make it an official collaboration 211 00:14:18,780 --> 00:14:22,176 between my merge company, t shirts Matter 212 00:14:22,358 --> 00:14:26,070 and Orange Fitness in the San Francisco Bay area. 213 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,880 But since I've already communicated with Ellen Latham, 214 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,916 who is the founder of Orangebury Fitness, I'd like to 215 00:14:34,938 --> 00:14:37,750 make it international because they have studios around the world. 216 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,056 That is awesome, and I cannot wait to see the 217 00:14:42,078 --> 00:14:45,800 photos. That's a great thing. So you said about two and a half years. 218 00:14:45,870 --> 00:14:50,540 So you were able to keep this up during the Pandemic. 219 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,820 I worked out 220 00:14:59,890 --> 00:15:04,192 at Orange 30 Fitness for a couple of times during 221 00:15:04,246 --> 00:15:05,680 the Pandemic, 222 00:15:06,820 --> 00:15:10,544 but I ended up getting 223 00:15:10,742 --> 00:15:14,916 severely depressed again because I 224 00:15:14,938 --> 00:15:18,656 was worried about money because the stock market crashed 225 00:15:18,848 --> 00:15:22,804 during the pandemic, and I ended back up in 226 00:15:22,842 --> 00:15:26,776 Taipei, Taiwan for like, six months. Got it. 227 00:15:26,878 --> 00:15:30,120 Okay. Yeah. In Taipei, Taiwan, 228 00:15:32,060 --> 00:15:35,290 there is a track that 229 00:15:36,380 --> 00:15:41,496 I had a fitbit at the time, and the 230 00:15:41,518 --> 00:15:44,936 goal of fitbit is hitting your 10,000 steps. So that's 231 00:15:44,968 --> 00:15:47,452 what I was doing in Taipei that I want is trying to hit those 10,000 232 00:15:47,506 --> 00:15:50,732 steps. Okay. So with 233 00:15:50,786 --> 00:15:54,524 exercise being something that you say yes to and do on a regular basis 234 00:15:54,572 --> 00:15:57,890 to improve your life, what is something that you say no to? 235 00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:06,030 So I 236 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,758 have a t shirt that I 237 00:16:10,764 --> 00:16:14,482 would say it's inspired by Taylor Swift because I'm a huge fan. 238 00:16:14,546 --> 00:16:18,162 I stand Taylor. It's a lyric 239 00:16:18,226 --> 00:16:21,050 from her song Shake it off. It says, 240 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,302 haters going to hate. So I just shake off that negativity. 241 00:16:25,366 --> 00:16:28,780 I say no to negativity. Okay, 242 00:16:30,190 --> 00:16:34,766 that's a good one. I haven't heard that one. And so can 243 00:16:34,788 --> 00:16:38,090 you tell me something that you've encountered 244 00:16:38,170 --> 00:16:42,400 while going through your career and building your business that 245 00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:46,500 has surprised you? 246 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,460 That's a really good question. Something that 247 00:16:54,530 --> 00:16:56,270 has surprised me. 248 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,360 I don't know if this is a surprise me, but I'm pretty resilient. 249 00:17:02,820 --> 00:17:07,184 I actually today was on a Google me call with 250 00:17:07,222 --> 00:17:11,490 a guy who ran a company that only works with, 251 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:18,100 I think, something like five clients 252 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,748 per quarter. And it was supposed to be like a 253 00:17:21,754 --> 00:17:25,912 30 minutes call. And I was 254 00:17:25,966 --> 00:17:29,944 talking to him about my new idea about 255 00:17:30,142 --> 00:17:32,872 an urban camping airbnb experience. 256 00:17:33,006 --> 00:17:37,000 And I was showing him the new boards, 257 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,228 and I have another tab open, kind of 258 00:17:41,234 --> 00:17:44,476 like showing stuff. And then I go back to the 259 00:17:44,498 --> 00:17:47,516 main room, and he's not there. 260 00:17:47,618 --> 00:17:50,750 We're basically like, 15 minutes in. 261 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,992 And so I was like, okay, I'm not sure what happened. 262 00:17:55,046 --> 00:17:58,784 So I disconnect. I log back in. He's not 263 00:17:58,822 --> 00:18:02,116 there. I go check my 264 00:18:02,298 --> 00:18:05,716 LinkedIn inbox, and I 265 00:18:05,738 --> 00:18:07,190 see that he's blocked me. 266 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,932 I have no clue why. You know, 267 00:18:13,066 --> 00:18:13,990 it's like, 268 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,672 well, he did say that, you know, with the companies that they work with, 269 00:18:19,726 --> 00:18:22,856 that they have to 270 00:18:22,878 --> 00:18:27,450 be generating like, monthly $50,000, 271 00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:32,220 and they've actually spent $150,000,000 on ads. 272 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,936 So in the form where they put, how much do you make monthly? 273 00:18:36,968 --> 00:18:40,440 I'm like, well, if they're looking for companies that make $50,000 274 00:18:40,530 --> 00:18:44,496 monthly, I'm going to put kind of like the little wavy thing, like approximately like 275 00:18:44,518 --> 00:18:48,208 $50,000? Yes. But in my case, it would have 276 00:18:48,214 --> 00:18:52,016 been like approximately zero. I pretty 277 00:18:52,038 --> 00:18:55,148 much filled up the form to tell them what they 278 00:18:55,174 --> 00:18:58,292 wanted to hear. I think 279 00:18:58,426 --> 00:19:01,172 probably the reason why he dropped off the call. He's like, why is this guy 280 00:19:01,226 --> 00:19:04,808 telling me about this airbnb camping experience when I only work with companies that 281 00:19:04,894 --> 00:19:07,240 make at least 50,000 monthly? 282 00:19:08,540 --> 00:19:12,904 But he did block me on 283 00:19:12,942 --> 00:19:16,184 LinkedIn, which is kind of curious. I mean, he's like, 284 00:19:16,222 --> 00:19:19,324 British, and he also 285 00:19:19,362 --> 00:19:20,780 has, like, a mustache. 286 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,700 He kind of looked like a pedophile. 287 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,256 And so you wanted to get to talk because you filled 288 00:19:29,288 --> 00:19:31,730 out the form, so why did you want to get to talk to him? 289 00:19:34,020 --> 00:19:37,408 He was able to scale, according to his website, 290 00:19:37,574 --> 00:19:40,880 these companies, like, working and doing ads and 291 00:19:41,030 --> 00:19:43,090 really accelerating the companies. 292 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,656 I'm basically a rocket ship. I'm a rocket ship. 293 00:19:48,768 --> 00:19:52,084 I'm on the launching pad. All I need is some 294 00:19:52,122 --> 00:19:55,784 fuel and someone to hit 295 00:19:55,822 --> 00:19:59,016 the button to go and then I'm a 296 00:19:59,038 --> 00:20:02,504 rocket. And that's actually 297 00:20:02,542 --> 00:20:03,690 what they call like, 298 00:20:04,860 --> 00:20:08,764 startups, so called unicorns that are worth 299 00:20:08,802 --> 00:20:12,968 over a billion dollars. Get ready for a ride 300 00:20:13,144 --> 00:20:17,276 on the rocket ship. It's going to be the most amazing experience 301 00:20:17,378 --> 00:20:20,896 of your life. LinkedIn was the most 302 00:20:20,998 --> 00:20:25,170 amazing professional experience 303 00:20:25,540 --> 00:20:27,250 of my life. 304 00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:30,640 That was a rocket ship. 305 00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:35,764 And so, I mean, he must know 306 00:20:35,802 --> 00:20:38,804 that people do that because you can't be the first person who's done that. 307 00:20:38,922 --> 00:20:42,372 And maybe if he'd been a little bit more curious and 308 00:20:42,426 --> 00:20:46,024 or asked questions, that would have come through 309 00:20:46,222 --> 00:20:50,404 instead of just blocking. People don't have curiosity 310 00:20:50,452 --> 00:20:53,736 anymore. At any point, he just 311 00:20:53,758 --> 00:20:56,890 said, hey, pause. Things aren't working. 312 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:00,910 I don't think it's going to work out. It's not a good fit. But no, 313 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,932 he just left the conversation and blocking on LinkedIn. Yeah, 314 00:21:05,986 --> 00:21:09,168 communication would have been nice. Communication would have been 315 00:21:09,174 --> 00:21:14,688 nice, especially he specifically says 316 00:21:14,854 --> 00:21:18,496 that with the clients they work with, since they work with so 317 00:21:18,518 --> 00:21:22,070 few that it feels like an extension of your team, 318 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,596 you'd think that he'd have more people skills. Yeah, 319 00:21:26,698 --> 00:21:29,956 you're right. All right, so final question 320 00:21:30,058 --> 00:21:34,104 for you. It's the mystery question. Is a hot 321 00:21:34,142 --> 00:21:36,040 dog a sandwich? 322 00:21:39,250 --> 00:21:41,870 Is a hot dog a sandwich? 323 00:21:42,770 --> 00:21:45,914 No, the hot dog is not a sandwich. 324 00:21:46,042 --> 00:21:46,720 Why? 325 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,696 Like a sandwich has, like, the circular buns. A hot 326 00:21:53,718 --> 00:21:56,944 dog does not have a circular bun. I mean, unless you put like, 327 00:21:56,982 --> 00:22:00,720 you know, like like, let's say three hot dogs, you know, 328 00:22:00,790 --> 00:22:04,548 between two hangar hamburger buns, then I 329 00:22:04,554 --> 00:22:08,150 would say it might be a sandwich, but no, it's not. No way. 330 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,110 Emphatically, I disagree. Okay. 331 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,944 I like that. I like when people are like, no, this is what I think 332 00:22:15,982 --> 00:22:19,768 and why. Thank you for that answer. So please let 333 00:22:19,854 --> 00:22:23,496 my listeners know where they can find out more about you 334 00:22:23,518 --> 00:22:24,570 and what you do. 335 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,844 So I was actually an 336 00:22:30,882 --> 00:22:35,064 early LinkedIn employee when I started at LinkedIn 337 00:22:35,192 --> 00:22:38,716 in May of 2006. I was a 42nd well, 338 00:22:38,738 --> 00:22:42,384 there are 42 people at the company. I was a 43rd employee and the second 339 00:22:42,502 --> 00:22:46,556 visual second user interface designer 340 00:22:46,588 --> 00:22:49,628 there. So I'd say, take a look at me on LinkedIn. 341 00:22:49,804 --> 00:22:54,310 It's LinkedIn.com in 342 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,416 Mikelin. 343 00:22:56,528 --> 00:23:01,060 M-I-K-E-L-I-N-I have 344 00:23:01,130 --> 00:23:05,076 links to press articles 345 00:23:05,188 --> 00:23:08,452 about what I've done with T shirts 346 00:23:08,516 --> 00:23:12,970 matter. I have press 347 00:23:13,660 --> 00:23:16,970 articles about what I did with my Scope Day event. 348 00:23:17,660 --> 00:23:21,610 My instagram is instagram.com. 349 00:23:23,020 --> 00:23:24,512 Mikelin SF. 350 00:23:24,596 --> 00:23:29,856 M-I-K-E-L-I-N-S-F-S-F as 351 00:23:29,878 --> 00:23:37,970 in San Francisco? The T shirt company is Tshirtsmatter.com. 352 00:23:38,820 --> 00:23:41,650 The instagram is instagram.com. 353 00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:45,100 Tshirtsmatter. 354 00:23:45,180 --> 00:23:46,884 Tshirtsmatter. 355 00:23:46,922 --> 00:23:51,376 The hyphen 356 00:23:51,408 --> 00:23:55,652 is really important. There's actually a company that's Tshirtsmatter.com 357 00:23:55,706 --> 00:23:59,610 without the Hyphen. I've had people looking at the website 358 00:23:59,980 --> 00:24:02,730 saying, hey, you have this product. I'm like, no, 359 00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:07,610 you're on the wrong website. 360 00:24:08,860 --> 00:24:09,610 Yeah, 361 00:24:11,980 --> 00:24:17,150 there's also linktree L-I-N-K-T-R-E-E 362 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,432 capital T, capital S-H-I-R-T-S 363 00:24:22,486 --> 00:24:25,968 capital M. Lowercase A-T-T-E-R. 364 00:24:26,054 --> 00:24:28,992 That link has links to everything. Thanks. 365 00:24:29,126 --> 00:24:32,484 Awesome. Thank you so very much for sharing your 366 00:24:32,522 --> 00:24:35,984 stories and your time with me today. I really appreciate 367 00:24:36,032 --> 00:24:39,540 it. And, yeah, that person who ghosted. 368 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,700 All right, thank you so very much. And this is Janice 369 00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:49,240 last thing. I'm currently working on self publishing my memoir 370 00:24:49,660 --> 00:24:53,572 in the next three to six months. And the name of my memoir 371 00:24:53,716 --> 00:24:58,484 is called The Way Out is Through My 372 00:24:58,542 --> 00:25:02,472 Mental Health Journey living with Bipolar One Disorder by Mike Lynn. 373 00:25:02,536 --> 00:25:05,644 And that's inspired well, that's a song by Nine 374 00:25:05,682 --> 00:25:08,060 Chanel's on the fragile, the Way I Deserve. 375 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:13,470 I have so many questions now. That is a great title and 376 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,596 I am intrigued. Yes. So we're going to make 377 00:25:17,618 --> 00:25:20,876 sure all the links are there, and please let me know when that does come 378 00:25:20,898 --> 00:25:24,116 out, so then we can add of that too. Thank you all 379 00:25:24,138 --> 00:25:27,604 for listening. This is Janice@thecareintrovert.com helping you build your brand and 380 00:25:27,642 --> 00:25:29,570 get hired. Have a great rest of your week.