1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,900 You found the backup wrap up your go-to podcast for all things 2 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:06,480 backup recovery and cyber recovery. 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,950 In this episode, we tackle the questions every small business needs 4 00:00:10,950 --> 00:00:16,740 to ask when choosing a cloud backup solution, picking the wrong backup 5 00:00:16,740 --> 00:00:21,689 product can cost you big time, both in terms of money and lost data. 6 00:00:22,170 --> 00:00:25,259 We're going to cut through the marketing noise and give you. 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:31,140 Real practical advice about what matters immutability that actually works. 8 00:00:31,380 --> 00:00:36,510 Following the 3, 2, 1 rule and making sure that you don't get killed by hidden costs. 9 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,620 Persona and I break down exactly what you need to look for. 10 00:00:40,965 --> 00:00:46,965 What to avoid and why Cloud backup makes so much sense for most small businesses. 11 00:00:47,415 --> 00:00:51,315 Whether you're shopping for backup right now or just want to make sure 12 00:00:51,555 --> 00:00:55,905 that your current solution is solid, this episode should be a big help. 13 00:00:56,700 --> 00:01:00,990 By the way, if you don't know who I am, I'm w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. 14 00:01:00,990 --> 00:01:06,059 Backup, and I've been passionate about backup and recovery for over 30 years. 15 00:01:06,330 --> 00:01:07,020 Ever since. 16 00:01:07,020 --> 00:01:11,039 I had to tell my boss that there were no backups of the production 17 00:01:11,039 --> 00:01:12,630 database that we had just lost. 18 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:16,679 I don't want that to happen to you, and that's why I do this podcast. 19 00:01:17,250 --> 00:01:22,710 On this podcast, we turn unappreciated backup admins into Cyber Recovery Heroes. 20 00:01:23,009 --> 00:01:25,050 This is the backup wrap up. 21 00:01:39,338 --> 00:01:40,418 Welcome to the show. 22 00:01:41,488 --> 00:01:44,278 Hi, I'm w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. 23 00:01:44,278 --> 00:01:50,488 Backup, and I have with me a guy who wishes that he had my television 24 00:01:50,788 --> 00:01:53,218 Prasanna Malaiyandi, how's it going? 25 00:01:53,218 --> 00:01:53,678 Prasanna. 26 00:01:54,113 --> 00:01:55,708 I am good Curtis and. 27 00:01:57,298 --> 00:01:57,898 I don't know. 28 00:01:57,988 --> 00:02:00,628 I don't think, I wish I had your television. 29 00:02:00,718 --> 00:02:01,108 you do. 30 00:02:01,108 --> 00:02:01,798 I think you do. 31 00:02:01,828 --> 00:02:04,798 You secretly, you don't want to tell me how bad you want my television. 32 00:02:05,668 --> 00:02:09,448 if I had the room for a TV that big. 33 00:02:09,448 --> 00:02:10,048 Yes. 34 00:02:11,878 --> 00:02:14,038 You don't have room for a 98 inch 35 00:02:14,188 --> 00:02:14,818 No. 36 00:02:14,818 --> 00:02:15,178 Curtis 37 00:02:15,178 --> 00:02:16,678 got a new toy for Christmas. 38 00:02:17,023 --> 00:02:17,623 I did. 39 00:02:17,953 --> 00:02:20,713 Curtis bought himself a new toy for Christmas. 40 00:02:22,273 --> 00:02:27,913 Let's face it, Curtis saw this and you know, the whole story is just crazy. 41 00:02:27,913 --> 00:02:28,573 I won't even, 42 00:02:28,843 --> 00:02:29,983 won't even tell. 43 00:02:30,583 --> 00:02:36,523 What's funny is literally the, I have a history of buying stuff that's 44 00:02:36,523 --> 00:02:40,483 big and not fully planning it out. 45 00:02:40,723 --> 00:02:45,493 This was possibly the best executed. 46 00:02:45,868 --> 00:02:50,098 Of all of the things, because I thought about how bad some of the other ones 47 00:02:50,158 --> 00:02:55,738 went, but it, but the, and the idea was to get it up on the wall, get it 48 00:02:55,738 --> 00:03:00,358 mounted on, on an articulating mount, by the way, 'cause it's a hundred pounds. 49 00:03:00,748 --> 00:03:04,168 To get it on a fully articulating mount, that would allow me to like. 50 00:03:04,998 --> 00:03:06,168 Angle it and stuff. 51 00:03:06,558 --> 00:03:12,348 Um, which for the record, the mount, just the mount itself, uh, is called the Beast. 52 00:03:12,918 --> 00:03:15,858 Um, and it was 200 bucks for the Mount. 53 00:03:16,668 --> 00:03:18,228 And, um, I. 54 00:03:19,153 --> 00:03:23,983 To, to get it on that mount and, and and functioning and get the wall repaired. 55 00:03:23,983 --> 00:03:25,723 'cause the wall had a previous thing in there. 56 00:03:25,723 --> 00:03:31,093 Get the wall repaired before my wife gets back because she was, um, at her mother's. 57 00:03:31,453 --> 00:03:36,253 And so that whole plan ob it went flawlessly. 58 00:03:36,943 --> 00:03:39,493 Like, I, like I, I prepped the wall. 59 00:03:39,493 --> 00:03:42,193 I, you know, I studded out the wall 'cause it had a big hole in 60 00:03:42,193 --> 00:03:43,843 it before I restudied the wall. 61 00:03:44,143 --> 00:03:46,543 I got the drywall guy in there, the drywall guy. 62 00:03:46,918 --> 00:03:49,888 Got the drywall going and I got it painted. 63 00:03:50,308 --> 00:03:53,213 I actually planned ahead with a person to borrow their truck 64 00:03:53,393 --> 00:03:54,803 and another person to help me 65 00:03:54,923 --> 00:03:55,043 I 66 00:03:55,043 --> 00:03:58,373 know I was actually impressed at how much thought went into this. 67 00:03:58,703 --> 00:03:59,213 Yeah. 68 00:03:59,273 --> 00:04:02,423 And then I, um, because time was of the essence. 69 00:04:02,423 --> 00:04:04,313 My wife was coming back like the next day. 70 00:04:04,973 --> 00:04:07,283 And, um, and I, and not that like. 71 00:04:07,763 --> 00:04:09,743 Well, my plan was just, oh look. 72 00:04:09,803 --> 00:04:14,333 Oh, there's television, there's a new, that was the plan and 73 00:04:14,333 --> 00:04:17,663 everything was fine up until what? 74 00:04:17,978 --> 00:04:21,428 You hung the TV and realized it doesn't work. 75 00:04:21,893 --> 00:04:27,773 Yeah, so the new TV didn't turn on after we hung it. 76 00:04:28,073 --> 00:04:29,483 Um, and 77 00:04:29,918 --> 00:04:30,128 so. 78 00:04:30,128 --> 00:04:31,928 it was not anything in your control, 79 00:04:32,138 --> 00:04:32,438 No. 80 00:04:32,438 --> 00:04:32,618 Yeah. 81 00:04:32,618 --> 00:04:33,758 Not anything in my control. 82 00:04:33,763 --> 00:04:37,058 It was, it was DOA, never even thought perhaps I should turn 83 00:04:37,058 --> 00:04:38,498 it on before I try to hang it. 84 00:04:39,638 --> 00:04:42,218 And, uh, in fact, the second one, we didn't try to turn 85 00:04:42,218 --> 00:04:43,298 it on before we hung it. 86 00:04:43,298 --> 00:04:43,658 Right. 87 00:04:43,718 --> 00:04:45,818 Um, and, uh, so 88 00:04:45,908 --> 00:04:47,048 And not only did you 89 00:04:47,048 --> 00:04:51,908 not try it before you hung it, you also tossed all the packaging 90 00:04:52,268 --> 00:04:57,788 I did because the, the easiest way to get a hundred inch screen or a hundred 91 00:04:57,788 --> 00:05:00,458 inch monitor out is to chop the box up. 92 00:05:00,458 --> 00:05:00,698 Right. 93 00:05:00,698 --> 00:05:02,228 To slice it down the side. 94 00:05:02,648 --> 00:05:05,048 'cause it's not like you're gonna lift it up out of a box the 95 00:05:05,048 --> 00:05:06,878 way you know, you normal boxes. 96 00:05:06,878 --> 00:05:07,178 Right. 97 00:05:07,868 --> 00:05:08,768 Um, yeah. 98 00:05:08,768 --> 00:05:11,978 So I did, I, I I sliced the hell outta that box. 99 00:05:12,008 --> 00:05:13,598 So the box was destroyed and everything. 100 00:05:13,598 --> 00:05:13,838 Yeah. 101 00:05:13,898 --> 00:05:17,048 Um, and um, so I went and got another TV 102 00:05:17,528 --> 00:05:24,308 and, and I was going to keep the box, uh, and then I was going to um, uh, and then 103 00:05:24,338 --> 00:05:26,648 again do the, do the swappy swap again. 104 00:05:26,648 --> 00:05:30,698 Arrange for the, the truck, arrange for the helper and, uh. 105 00:05:31,033 --> 00:05:35,713 Everything was fine until my wife called me in the midst of this saying that she 106 00:05:35,713 --> 00:05:40,903 was coming back up in the morning versus in the evening, and so she walked in 107 00:05:40,903 --> 00:05:47,353 on us mounting this gigantic TV during which I got exactly what I expected, 108 00:05:47,353 --> 00:05:49,153 which is, do you know what you're doing? 109 00:05:49,788 --> 00:05:53,628 Which, which is just what you want to hear when you're holding a a 110 00:05:53,628 --> 00:05:57,678 hundred inch tv, which you have to hold in order to mount it properly. 111 00:05:57,678 --> 00:06:00,708 Like it has to be lifted like beyond shoulder 112 00:06:00,938 --> 00:06:01,208 Yeah. 113 00:06:01,938 --> 00:06:03,828 Um, and it's a hundred pounds. 114 00:06:04,008 --> 00:06:05,148 Um, yeah. 115 00:06:05,148 --> 00:06:05,478 So it 116 00:06:05,648 --> 00:06:06,488 and so you don't 117 00:06:06,498 --> 00:06:07,128 And it's top. 118 00:06:07,188 --> 00:06:07,458 Yeah. 119 00:06:07,458 --> 00:06:08,178 All the things. 120 00:06:08,208 --> 00:06:09,048 All the things, yeah. 121 00:06:09,318 --> 00:06:09,888 Um, 122 00:06:10,208 --> 00:06:10,388 but 123 00:06:10,388 --> 00:06:10,778 it's up. 124 00:06:10,778 --> 00:06:12,008 and the so 125 00:06:12,138 --> 00:06:12,948 but it's up and it's 126 00:06:12,963 --> 00:06:15,188 so, so I think, here's what everyone wants to know. 127 00:06:15,708 --> 00:06:16,128 yeah, 128 00:06:16,208 --> 00:06:16,328 it. 129 00:06:17,148 --> 00:06:17,703 it's amazing. 130 00:06:19,073 --> 00:06:23,933 It's, it's, um, I, I should put, I, I, did you see the, did you see 131 00:06:23,933 --> 00:06:25,073 the thing I sent you this morning? 132 00:06:25,748 --> 00:06:26,948 Yeah, I should put that up. 133 00:06:27,008 --> 00:06:33,068 This is how much bigger the TV is versus my, the previous tv and which 134 00:06:33,068 --> 00:06:36,728 I've always thought was a 65 inch, 'cause I bought it used and now it 135 00:06:36,728 --> 00:06:38,288 turns out it was actually 58 inch. 136 00:06:38,528 --> 00:06:41,108 And so how much bigger is a 50 a 98 than a 58? 137 00:06:41,108 --> 00:06:44,048 It turns out it's much, much, much, much more screen Right. 138 00:06:44,948 --> 00:06:46,208 And um. 139 00:06:46,858 --> 00:06:51,838 And also I have a Samsung Q nine 90 soundbar, which is a really good soundbar. 140 00:06:51,838 --> 00:06:55,228 And so the connection of those two things is just an amazing 141 00:06:55,228 --> 00:06:57,538 home theatrical experience. 142 00:06:57,633 --> 00:07:00,873 But, uh, anyway, like I said, you wish you had my 143 00:07:01,218 --> 00:07:03,648 Yes, Yes, I do wish. 144 00:07:05,853 --> 00:07:12,103 Um, so the topic of today, uh, and, and by the way, um, I'll just tell you 145 00:07:12,103 --> 00:07:16,273 if, if you're looking for me, if you're looking for me to just name companies, 146 00:07:16,963 --> 00:07:20,593 it's not gonna be, that is not gonna be the way this podcast is gonna go. 147 00:07:20,593 --> 00:07:22,333 That's generally not what we do. 148 00:07:22,873 --> 00:07:24,433 Um, it's going to be. 149 00:07:25,228 --> 00:07:29,008 How, what are the types of things that you're going to be looking for 150 00:07:29,008 --> 00:07:35,788 if you're a small business and you, um, uh, need a cloud backup company? 151 00:07:36,508 --> 00:07:40,378 And yes, both of you, both you and I used to work for a cloud 152 00:07:40,378 --> 00:07:44,668 backup company, but this is not going to be, hey, um, you know, 153 00:07:45,148 --> 00:07:46,678 just pick that one right? 154 00:07:47,218 --> 00:07:50,398 But there are things that you need to think about. 155 00:07:50,638 --> 00:07:53,248 And I first. 156 00:07:53,908 --> 00:07:56,398 Wanted to start with the question. 157 00:07:57,208 --> 00:08:03,478 So I am of the opinion, and I think you share this opinion, but I 158 00:08:03,478 --> 00:08:04,918 wanted to talk about that opinion. 159 00:08:05,218 --> 00:08:11,158 I am of the opinion that cloud backup, a cloud backup service is 160 00:08:11,158 --> 00:08:13,858 the way to back up a small business. 161 00:08:15,253 --> 00:08:17,083 Or, or a person, right? 162 00:08:17,623 --> 00:08:24,253 Uh, versus the, the alternative versus buying a, you know, a backup product, 163 00:08:24,523 --> 00:08:31,183 installing it on your, uh, a machine of some type or a vm if you're, 164 00:08:31,183 --> 00:08:34,273 you're in the cloud versus doing 165 00:08:34,603 --> 00:08:37,243 can we clarify slightly? 166 00:08:37,903 --> 00:08:39,313 you can clarify all you want. 167 00:08:39,313 --> 00:08:44,833 Uh, so I think in many cases, I think it depends what your workload 168 00:08:44,833 --> 00:08:45,973 is and where you're running it. 169 00:08:46,888 --> 00:08:51,463 So I, I will preface my statement, assuming it, it can 170 00:08:51,463 --> 00:08:57,033 meet your requirements, then cloud backup is the way to go. 171 00:08:57,298 --> 00:08:59,908 yes, and I agree with that. 172 00:08:59,908 --> 00:09:04,828 And the only other thing I want to also clarify is you said downloading, 173 00:09:04,828 --> 00:09:06,388 installing on your device. 174 00:09:07,408 --> 00:09:09,748 I think there's still a use for that. 175 00:09:09,778 --> 00:09:14,488 It may not be managing the backup service and everything else that I a hundred 176 00:09:14,488 --> 00:09:18,418 percent agree should move to the cloud, but there still may be things that you 177 00:09:18,418 --> 00:09:22,408 are installing locally onto your device in order to be able to back up that device. 178 00:09:23,153 --> 00:09:27,028 R Right, I meant, I meant like installing backup software on a server. 179 00:09:27,553 --> 00:09:29,743 That's now your backup server, right? 180 00:09:29,803 --> 00:09:34,003 That basically what I did for the first half of my career, right? 181 00:09:34,003 --> 00:09:38,413 Helping people to install a product. 182 00:09:38,443 --> 00:09:43,183 Well, a company that is now no more as of last week, right? 183 00:09:43,183 --> 00:09:44,053 Veritas? 184 00:09:44,113 --> 00:09:45,583 I did, I installed a lot of Veritas. 185 00:09:45,583 --> 00:09:49,993 NetBackup is still around, but, but, um, and backup exec is still around, but it's 186 00:09:50,023 --> 00:09:50,743 but I 187 00:09:50,743 --> 00:09:56,793 think, I think it's important though to also point out that back in those days, 188 00:09:56,853 --> 00:10:02,073 the workloads that a small medium, a small business was running is very different 189 00:10:02,073 --> 00:10:05,853 than the technologies and what's available today and how they operate their business. 190 00:10:08,448 --> 00:10:10,848 I'll kind of agree with that. 191 00:10:10,878 --> 00:10:12,708 I'll, I'll, I'll say, I'll say, how's this? 192 00:10:12,738 --> 00:10:15,738 I'll say it in a slightly different way because all those 193 00:10:15,738 --> 00:10:16,728 workloads are still there. 194 00:10:16,743 --> 00:10:17,043 Yeah. 195 00:10:17,403 --> 00:10:18,783 They're operating differently. 196 00:10:19,848 --> 00:10:22,788 Well, and even if, like, it depends on how far we go back. 197 00:10:22,788 --> 00:10:26,358 Obviously virtualization changed a lot, but the cloud. 198 00:10:27,723 --> 00:10:29,553 It changed a ton, right? 199 00:10:29,553 --> 00:10:36,753 The, the existence of the cloud as a place to put your IT and as a place to buy it. 200 00:10:36,753 --> 00:10:37,623 Services. 201 00:10:37,893 --> 00:10:41,763 The existence of SaaS changes everything, right? 202 00:10:42,633 --> 00:10:49,383 Um, even more so, it changes everything in the backup world, even more so than 203 00:10:49,383 --> 00:10:52,053 the creation of the cloud as we know it. 204 00:10:52,053 --> 00:10:53,913 The basically cloud computing. 205 00:10:54,633 --> 00:10:58,773 And then I think the other important, sorry, I keep going on about this is, 206 00:10:59,103 --> 00:11:05,073 um, when you say cloud though, you don't necessarily mean just public cloud, right? 207 00:11:05,073 --> 00:11:10,143 You could also be referring to like an MSP who is providing 208 00:11:10,323 --> 00:11:12,243 A call, well, a cloud backup service. 209 00:11:12,243 --> 00:11:12,453 I, 210 00:11:12,723 --> 00:11:14,643 I would still call that a cloud backup service. 211 00:11:14,643 --> 00:11:15,363 An MSP. 212 00:11:15,423 --> 00:11:15,693 Yeah. 213 00:11:16,173 --> 00:11:16,503 Okay. 214 00:11:16,953 --> 00:11:17,163 Okay. 215 00:11:17,163 --> 00:11:17,463 I'm good 216 00:11:17,463 --> 00:11:20,403 I mean, it might, A cloud backup service might not be running in what 217 00:11:20,403 --> 00:11:21,993 we think of as the public cloud. 218 00:11:21,993 --> 00:11:23,463 It could be running in a private cloud. 219 00:11:24,168 --> 00:11:28,728 But I think the key takeaway is you're not managing the backup infrastructure. 220 00:11:28,728 --> 00:11:30,048 You're not deploying it. 221 00:11:30,048 --> 00:11:34,158 You're someone else is managing all of that for you, 222 00:11:34,593 --> 00:11:35,193 Right. 223 00:11:35,463 --> 00:11:36,603 And why do I think that? 224 00:11:37,398 --> 00:11:37,908 because no one 225 00:11:37,923 --> 00:11:42,183 Why do I think that the cloud is the way that a cloud backup service 226 00:11:42,183 --> 00:11:46,863 is the way to back up, especially a small business or an individual? 227 00:11:47,388 --> 00:11:52,908 Well a lot of it is just all those, like that use case of small businesses and 228 00:11:52,908 --> 00:11:54,978 individuals need to back up their data. 229 00:11:55,368 --> 00:11:58,188 If they have to deploy all the infrastructure, they're gonna cut 230 00:11:58,188 --> 00:12:01,548 corners or they're gonna leave things out, or the cost is gonna 231 00:12:01,548 --> 00:12:04,488 be extremely high that they're just gonna be like, Hey, I can't do this. 232 00:12:06,528 --> 00:12:11,388 Yeah, so creating and ins, you know, you know, designing and 233 00:12:11,388 --> 00:12:17,508 installing and configuring, and then managing a proper backup system. 234 00:12:17,508 --> 00:12:17,538 I. 235 00:12:19,158 --> 00:12:24,968 Whether on-prem or running in a cloud instance in your cloud account is a lot, 236 00:12:25,118 --> 00:12:25,338 Yep. 237 00:12:26,228 --> 00:12:26,588 right? 238 00:12:26,588 --> 00:12:28,238 I built an entire career out of it. 239 00:12:28,478 --> 00:12:30,848 People misconfigure that stuff a lot. 240 00:12:31,658 --> 00:12:34,628 They, they often, they often over-engineer. 241 00:12:34,628 --> 00:12:37,658 They have, they either have way more hardware than they need or 242 00:12:37,658 --> 00:12:39,008 way less hardware than they need. 243 00:12:39,473 --> 00:12:39,923 Right. 244 00:12:40,823 --> 00:12:47,043 Um, also it's difficult to design it to be properly secure. 245 00:12:47,643 --> 00:12:51,363 It's very easy to design it in a way that it's easily attackable. 246 00:12:52,353 --> 00:12:56,613 Um, and we can talk about that for a minute because that's really the, 247 00:12:57,093 --> 00:13:01,323 it used to be that the number one problem was I got this much data and 248 00:13:01,323 --> 00:13:05,523 I got this much time, and I can't get a, I can't get from A to B. 249 00:13:05,583 --> 00:13:07,023 That was the number one thing. 250 00:13:07,233 --> 00:13:10,143 Both either from the backup or the restore. 251 00:13:10,143 --> 00:13:10,893 What were you about to say? 252 00:13:10,908 --> 00:13:11,293 Oh, physics. 253 00:13:12,243 --> 00:13:12,513 Yes. 254 00:13:12,513 --> 00:13:12,963 Physics. 255 00:13:13,323 --> 00:13:16,563 Physics, I used to say it all the time, physics was my number one enemy. 256 00:13:16,623 --> 00:13:20,133 And the problem with physics is it doesn't, it doesn't argue like, it's 257 00:13:20,133 --> 00:13:21,993 like, Hey man, I'm physics right? 258 00:13:22,833 --> 00:13:25,593 Um, like I, I just, I just had a thought. 259 00:13:25,593 --> 00:13:29,583 It was a company that is not around anymore, but they were one of 260 00:13:29,613 --> 00:13:31,743 the.com companies back in the day 261 00:13:31,788 --> 00:13:32,058 Hmm. 262 00:13:32,823 --> 00:13:37,653 and, um, they were having real trouble backing up. 263 00:13:38,343 --> 00:13:40,683 Something and they're like, the thing's over here and we're 264 00:13:40,683 --> 00:13:41,943 trying to get it over here. 265 00:13:42,603 --> 00:13:44,913 And I was like, just curious, what's the pipe? 266 00:13:45,093 --> 00:13:45,393 Right? 267 00:13:45,393 --> 00:13:47,703 And it was, and it was going across the internet. 268 00:13:47,703 --> 00:13:48,993 I'm like, what's, what's the pipe? 269 00:13:49,473 --> 00:13:51,093 They're like, oh, we have a, um. 270 00:13:51,783 --> 00:13:58,113 It was a, uh, a fractional T one line, and I just remember doing the math. 271 00:13:58,113 --> 00:14:00,123 I'm like, yeah, well this is physics. 272 00:14:00,483 --> 00:14:01,743 The problem is physics. 273 00:14:01,803 --> 00:14:06,243 You can't get from there to here with that much, that much data and that that little 274 00:14:06,243 --> 00:14:08,613 bit of pipe that used to be the problem. 275 00:14:08,973 --> 00:14:14,793 I think that problem has been solved primarily by a lot of 276 00:14:14,793 --> 00:14:17,283 design changes in backup software. 277 00:14:17,853 --> 00:14:21,183 Number one being deduplication, right? 278 00:14:21,183 --> 00:14:23,253 That deduplication changed it. 279 00:14:23,253 --> 00:14:26,733 It didn't change the laws of physics, but it addressed the laws of physics, 280 00:14:27,063 --> 00:14:31,773 but allowing you to back up a much bigger amount of data over a much smaller pipe, 281 00:14:32,043 --> 00:14:32,433 right? 282 00:14:33,483 --> 00:14:37,443 Dedupe and progre and basically progressive incrementals. 283 00:14:37,563 --> 00:14:38,223 What were you about to 284 00:14:38,298 --> 00:14:42,048 That the, the second part was what I was gonna say as well, that improvements 285 00:14:42,048 --> 00:14:46,548 in the technologies that allow you to do backups more efficiently. 286 00:14:47,088 --> 00:14:47,288 Yeah. 287 00:14:47,568 --> 00:14:47,868 Right. 288 00:14:47,868 --> 00:14:52,068 I think also goes a long way even without deduplication, because that does help. 289 00:14:52,518 --> 00:14:53,658 But I think like, uh. 290 00:14:54,198 --> 00:14:56,868 Incremental backups, whatever method you want to pick. 291 00:14:56,868 --> 00:14:58,878 Synthetic or nonsynthetic, right? 292 00:14:59,148 --> 00:14:59,808 Take your pick. 293 00:14:59,808 --> 00:15:00,108 But 294 00:15:00,168 --> 00:15:05,178 all of those, I think, significantly helped in improving backup performance. 295 00:15:05,928 --> 00:15:10,218 Yeah, I guess when I think of ddu, I think of DDU as the method to 296 00:15:10,218 --> 00:15:11,748 create the incremental backups. 297 00:15:11,748 --> 00:15:12,438 But you're right, right. 298 00:15:12,438 --> 00:15:16,638 It's a, it's a combination of the fact that we're able to do incremental 299 00:15:16,638 --> 00:15:19,548 forever now without restore forever. 300 00:15:19,608 --> 00:15:22,548 That, you know, there incremental forever has been around for a while. 301 00:15:22,878 --> 00:15:27,018 Um, and you know, there, there have been products that do incremental 302 00:15:27,018 --> 00:15:28,398 forever and they did it to tape. 303 00:15:29,223 --> 00:15:32,913 An incremental forever to tape means restore forever from tape 304 00:15:33,453 --> 00:15:35,283 because you're gonna load so many. 305 00:15:35,463 --> 00:15:39,813 I remember doing a restore, uh, with an incremental forever product. 306 00:15:39,963 --> 00:15:44,043 And, uh, it was like, gosh, it wasn't even that much data. 307 00:15:44,643 --> 00:15:47,853 It was, I, I don't remember the actual numbers, but I remember 308 00:15:47,853 --> 00:15:50,253 thinking this should take a few hours. 309 00:15:50,433 --> 00:15:56,253 And it took a few weeks because, uh, we were, um, you know, uh, 310 00:15:56,283 --> 00:15:57,753 doing, uh, restore forever. 311 00:15:57,803 --> 00:16:02,273 I just remember that that restore was because the number of tapes we had to 312 00:16:02,273 --> 00:16:06,293 load and the fact that we only needed one file from this tape and two files 313 00:16:06,293 --> 00:16:10,043 from that tape, you know, that, that I never thought that was a good idea. 314 00:16:10,043 --> 00:16:16,283 But, now where we have disc primarily as the, you know, the, the backup medium. 315 00:16:17,183 --> 00:16:18,953 We have dedupe as a helper. 316 00:16:19,643 --> 00:16:23,513 The fact that, you know, we can back up really, really large amounts of 317 00:16:23,513 --> 00:16:27,623 data, the only thing then we need to design is we need to make sure we 318 00:16:28,253 --> 00:16:30,143 figure in the restore aspect of it. 319 00:16:30,953 --> 00:16:33,983 Because just because we can back up, you know, a petabyte over the 320 00:16:33,983 --> 00:16:36,803 internet doesn't mean we can restore a petabyte over the internet. 321 00:16:36,833 --> 00:16:37,163 Right. 322 00:16:37,238 --> 00:16:37,448 Yeah. 323 00:16:37,928 --> 00:16:38,288 And 324 00:16:38,483 --> 00:16:39,533 Um, go ahead. 325 00:16:39,548 --> 00:16:43,658 what, I know you were talking about sort of backing up data, right? 326 00:16:43,658 --> 00:16:44,348 And pushing it out. 327 00:16:44,348 --> 00:16:49,148 But I think also now for a lot of small businesses and individuals, 328 00:16:49,358 --> 00:16:52,418 they're leveraging, like we talked earlier, a lot of SaaS services, 329 00:16:52,898 --> 00:16:53,258 Yeah. 330 00:16:53,378 --> 00:16:56,738 they're not even running exchange on premises or 331 00:16:57,338 --> 00:16:57,728 right. 332 00:16:57,788 --> 00:16:58,268 They don't have the, 333 00:16:58,268 --> 00:16:58,898 premises. 334 00:16:59,318 --> 00:17:02,378 yeah, they don't have the same reasons that we did that we had back in the day. 335 00:17:03,008 --> 00:17:03,518 So let's. 336 00:17:04,283 --> 00:17:06,593 So, yeah, so basically I think it's a good idea. 337 00:17:06,593 --> 00:17:07,373 I think it's a good idea. 338 00:17:07,373 --> 00:17:09,353 From a cost perspective, I think it's a good idea. 339 00:17:09,353 --> 00:17:14,663 From a risk perspective, from a cybersecurity perspective, um, I 340 00:17:14,663 --> 00:17:20,903 think that you are, you are leveraging that company's, uh, expertise and 341 00:17:20,903 --> 00:17:23,603 then literally all you have to do is install the agent, right? 342 00:17:23,603 --> 00:17:25,793 Or some, and some are even agentless, right? 343 00:17:25,793 --> 00:17:28,643 But all you have to install is agent or, or connect. 344 00:17:29,078 --> 00:17:32,918 The, you know, the appropriate connector and they are specialists 345 00:17:32,918 --> 00:17:34,598 in how to back up that thing. 346 00:17:34,958 --> 00:17:39,158 And, um, you just need to allow it to do its job in most cases, right? 347 00:17:39,578 --> 00:17:44,138 Um, you just need to basically get out of its way and say things like 348 00:17:44,138 --> 00:17:45,638 how often you want to back it up. 349 00:17:46,073 --> 00:17:46,793 Um, 350 00:17:46,823 --> 00:17:47,333 do you wanna keep it 351 00:17:47,543 --> 00:17:51,053 um, you know, what kind of RTO and RPO you're expecting, that sort of thing. 352 00:17:52,013 --> 00:17:54,143 So I, so I just think it's a good idea. 353 00:17:54,143 --> 00:18:01,133 So, so what would you think if, if I'm a small business, um, and I will add, 354 00:18:01,193 --> 00:18:06,773 um, if I'm a dude in the house with, you know, a handful of computers, what, 355 00:18:07,013 --> 00:18:12,023 what's the first thing that I need to, if I'm, if I'm wanting to narrow down? 356 00:18:12,908 --> 00:18:15,848 List of, you know, because I, I googled cloud backup companies for 357 00:18:15,848 --> 00:18:18,878 small business and, and there's, you know, I dunno, 50 of 'em out there. 358 00:18:19,508 --> 00:18:23,918 How do I narrow that list down from 50 to a handful. 359 00:18:24,758 --> 00:18:29,953 I think one of 'em is, do they actually back up the applications or the workloads 360 00:18:29,953 --> 00:18:31,553 that you are looking to support? 361 00:18:32,273 --> 00:18:35,603 Yeah, there's no point in having a conversation about how awesome their 362 00:18:35,603 --> 00:18:40,463 backup is if they don't back up your Mac or they don't back up your Microsoft 363 00:18:40,463 --> 00:18:47,933 365 or VMware or whatever it is that you use as a, you know, as a platform. 364 00:18:48,323 --> 00:18:53,843 If they don't support it, there is really no point in having a conversation because 365 00:18:53,903 --> 00:18:59,123 what I, what I really want you as a small business, what I really want you to avoid. 366 00:18:59,663 --> 00:19:04,523 Is this, I did a LinkedIn survey last week or two weeks ago that that 367 00:19:04,523 --> 00:19:05,813 just finished a couple days ago. 368 00:19:06,833 --> 00:19:10,763 And it was, how many backup products are you using in your 369 00:19:11,093 --> 00:19:11,873 72. 370 00:19:11,933 --> 00:19:12,473 72. 371 00:19:14,483 --> 00:19:17,453 And I, um, I was just looking at it. 372 00:19:17,553 --> 00:19:25,923 30% of the respondents said three or more, 12% of the environments said four or more. 373 00:19:26,823 --> 00:19:27,303 Right. 374 00:19:27,723 --> 00:19:31,953 So 38% said one so good on them. 375 00:19:32,103 --> 00:19:32,553 Right? 376 00:19:33,243 --> 00:19:33,573 And, 377 00:19:33,573 --> 00:19:36,453 62% said more than one backup product. 378 00:19:37,113 --> 00:19:37,713 Why? 379 00:19:37,713 --> 00:19:38,403 Why do I care? 380 00:19:38,403 --> 00:19:40,593 Why do I not want you to run more than one backup product? 381 00:19:41,313 --> 00:19:45,633 Well, as a small business, you probably don't have the time 382 00:19:45,633 --> 00:19:49,953 to understand how to operate 20 different backup products when you 383 00:19:49,953 --> 00:19:52,173 have a thousand other things to do, 384 00:19:52,833 --> 00:19:53,853 and learning each one. 385 00:19:53,853 --> 00:19:55,413 Being an expert takes time. 386 00:19:55,413 --> 00:19:57,123 So pick what works. 387 00:19:57,588 --> 00:20:00,078 Which, what would support most of your environment 388 00:20:00,903 --> 00:20:01,233 Yeah. 389 00:20:01,263 --> 00:20:04,473 And what, and again, I, I'll, I, I, I make a lot of blanket 390 00:20:04,473 --> 00:20:05,733 statements and this is one of them. 391 00:20:06,078 --> 00:20:10,428 I would rather you have a not as amazing backup product that 392 00:20:10,428 --> 00:20:14,268 handles all your platforms than two really amazing products that, that 393 00:20:14,268 --> 00:20:16,488 handle all your platforms, right? 394 00:20:16,848 --> 00:20:20,628 Uh, just my Prasannal preference because of risk and complexity 395 00:20:20,628 --> 00:20:21,588 and all of that stuff. 396 00:20:21,588 --> 00:20:22,188 Standpoint. 397 00:20:22,668 --> 00:20:28,848 Now, again, I go back with, as long as the product meets your requirements, right? 398 00:20:29,178 --> 00:20:33,618 Um, if it can't do the job, that's a different discussion, but I'm just saying. 399 00:20:34,593 --> 00:20:38,883 Too many times we pick that product and this product because they have really 400 00:20:38,883 --> 00:20:41,673 cool features that aren't requirements. 401 00:20:42,663 --> 00:20:43,023 Right. 402 00:20:43,083 --> 00:20:46,233 They're like, man, this one also makes my morning espresso. 403 00:20:46,443 --> 00:20:47,913 That would be amazing. 404 00:20:48,123 --> 00:20:48,543 Right? 405 00:20:49,143 --> 00:20:51,663 And you're like, that's not really a requirement. 406 00:20:51,843 --> 00:20:52,323 Right? 407 00:20:52,503 --> 00:20:57,183 Um, and so I would rather you buy one decent backup product 408 00:20:57,183 --> 00:20:58,503 that meets all your requirements. 409 00:20:58,503 --> 00:21:01,293 I would never want you to buy a product that doesn't match your requirements. 410 00:21:02,223 --> 00:21:05,223 But yeah, so the very first thing I, I, I agree with you. 411 00:21:05,223 --> 00:21:08,133 The very first thing to do is to make sure. 412 00:21:08,808 --> 00:21:10,698 Uh, well at least first C. 413 00:21:10,848 --> 00:21:16,398 See if there is a product that handles all of the platforms that you, that 414 00:21:16,398 --> 00:21:19,818 you, um, uh, that you use, right? 415 00:21:21,108 --> 00:21:25,038 It's very possible you will not find a product that, that does all the platforms 416 00:21:25,038 --> 00:21:27,978 that you use, in which case it's the Yeah. 417 00:21:27,978 --> 00:21:29,898 In which case it is time to go to plan B. 418 00:21:29,898 --> 00:21:30,108 Right? 419 00:21:30,108 --> 00:21:31,968 Which is, you know, more than one backup product. 420 00:21:31,968 --> 00:21:34,153 But don't start with the assumption that you need the 421 00:21:34,153 --> 00:21:35,633 best of breed for every single 422 00:21:36,183 --> 00:21:36,753 Yeah. 423 00:21:36,813 --> 00:21:37,323 Yeah. 424 00:21:37,383 --> 00:21:41,853 Um, and so, yeah, I would rather like, like if you just, if you pick 425 00:21:41,853 --> 00:21:47,643 like best product for Microsoft 365, best product for VMware, best product 426 00:21:47,643 --> 00:21:53,823 for, um, I don't know, Salesforce, those are three different products. 427 00:21:54,003 --> 00:21:55,293 You could do that. 428 00:21:55,353 --> 00:21:56,703 I don't think that's a good idea. 429 00:21:57,393 --> 00:21:57,723 Right. 430 00:21:59,013 --> 00:21:59,613 Um. 431 00:22:00,288 --> 00:22:04,308 But, but you, what you might end up with is a company that's really 432 00:22:04,308 --> 00:22:08,088 good at SaaS backup and a company that's really good at on-prem backup 433 00:22:08,568 --> 00:22:13,578 or a company that's good at, uh, Amazon backup, right? 434 00:22:13,848 --> 00:22:17,808 You might end up with two or three that cover that. 435 00:22:17,808 --> 00:22:21,168 You might end up having to do that because of the number of platforms that you use 436 00:22:21,168 --> 00:22:23,058 because there are so many platforms. 437 00:22:23,108 --> 00:22:26,408 Do you remember when we interviewed that IT manager and they told us that 438 00:22:26,408 --> 00:22:29,018 their company was using how many SaaS? 439 00:22:29,438 --> 00:22:29,708 What was 440 00:22:29,918 --> 00:22:30,878 I think it was 50 plus. 441 00:22:30,878 --> 00:22:31,238 Right. 442 00:22:31,298 --> 00:22:32,828 Oh, it was way more than that, dude. 443 00:22:33,248 --> 00:22:35,678 Yeah, it was 400. 444 00:22:36,668 --> 00:22:41,078 It was 400 SaaS products that were being used in production at 445 00:22:41,078 --> 00:22:44,288 their company by like two people. 446 00:22:45,488 --> 00:22:50,588 Most of them were being used by like one guy, and then one woman over here is 447 00:22:50,588 --> 00:22:53,948 using that product and then they got four people and you got a little team over 448 00:22:53,948 --> 00:22:56,498 there in, you know, India and, what's 449 00:22:56,648 --> 00:23:00,398 because being on the other side, like as a consumer of IT resources, 450 00:23:00,668 --> 00:23:00,908 right? 451 00:23:00,908 --> 00:23:03,758 We always are like, oh, we need this tool because it solves my needs. 452 00:23:03,758 --> 00:23:04,508 It's what I need to 453 00:23:04,508 --> 00:23:07,238 do and it's the best of the breed for all the things I need to do. 454 00:23:07,868 --> 00:23:11,108 But then you never think about the poor IT person who's like, what am I going 455 00:23:11,108 --> 00:23:12,908 to do now with this additional SaaS app? 456 00:23:12,908 --> 00:23:14,438 And that's how you end up with like 400. 457 00:23:15,383 --> 00:23:15,803 Yeah. 458 00:23:16,853 --> 00:23:20,573 And, and so, yeah, so to just to go back, try to find a product 459 00:23:20,573 --> 00:23:21,803 that meets, you know, your need. 460 00:23:21,923 --> 00:23:27,173 Try to find the least number of products, least number of backup products to support 461 00:23:27,173 --> 00:23:28,523 the number of platforms that you do. 462 00:23:28,523 --> 00:23:32,963 And, and I, and I do think that SaaS is gonna be the death of you, right? 463 00:23:33,518 --> 00:23:39,428 and I think the other thing is make sure you know your requirements, your needs 464 00:23:39,428 --> 00:23:40,568 versus your wants, 465 00:23:41,198 --> 00:23:43,028 because it's easy to snowball. 466 00:23:43,748 --> 00:23:44,018 And 467 00:23:44,018 --> 00:23:45,398 be like, oh, I want everything. 468 00:23:45,398 --> 00:23:49,898 It's like when you go like building a house or buying a car, it's like, oh, 469 00:23:49,898 --> 00:23:51,488 I really wanna check all the boxes. 470 00:23:51,488 --> 00:23:54,338 But then it's like, oh, that comes with a big sticker price. 471 00:23:54,698 --> 00:23:55,718 Do I really need this? 472 00:23:55,718 --> 00:23:56,288 Do I not? 473 00:23:56,288 --> 00:23:57,788 Like, what do I really need? 474 00:23:58,703 --> 00:23:59,243 Yeah. 475 00:23:59,453 --> 00:24:05,393 Um, I'm gonna say the next thing after we've made sure we have 476 00:24:05,393 --> 00:24:09,353 products that handle the things that we do, and we minimize the number of 477 00:24:09,353 --> 00:24:11,123 those products as much as possible. 478 00:24:12,788 --> 00:24:19,288 Is to look for actual immutability, right? 479 00:24:19,498 --> 00:24:21,688 Why do I say actual immutability? 480 00:24:21,688 --> 00:24:23,548 I am gonna disagree with you on this, but that's okay. 481 00:24:23,548 --> 00:24:24,268 We'll go through it. 482 00:24:24,583 --> 00:24:27,673 Oh, you think you think something else is more important than 483 00:24:28,243 --> 00:24:31,213 the fact that the backups might actually exist when you need them? 484 00:24:31,393 --> 00:24:33,193 You think something's more important than that? 485 00:24:34,043 --> 00:24:34,263 Yes. 486 00:24:35,038 --> 00:24:35,488 Okay. 487 00:24:35,608 --> 00:24:37,888 I can't wait to hear what it is, so, 488 00:24:39,898 --> 00:24:40,438 all right. 489 00:24:40,708 --> 00:24:44,308 So, um, man, I'm dying to know, but 490 00:24:44,998 --> 00:24:48,208 we're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk about my idea first. 491 00:24:48,658 --> 00:24:49,858 So, yeah. 492 00:24:49,863 --> 00:24:51,533 What do I mean by actual mutability, 493 00:24:52,288 --> 00:24:57,178 This is that your data cannot be deleted before the prescribed retention time. 494 00:24:57,923 --> 00:24:58,143 by 495 00:24:58,708 --> 00:24:59,278 anyone? 496 00:24:59,908 --> 00:25:00,808 or anything. 497 00:25:01,333 --> 00:25:04,033 Or anything including you. 498 00:25:05,023 --> 00:25:09,823 If you cannot delete the data before its expiration period, then that's 499 00:25:09,823 --> 00:25:11,743 as good as you're going to get. 500 00:25:11,743 --> 00:25:17,023 From an immutability standpoint, if you as a super user are allowed to delete data, 501 00:25:17,233 --> 00:25:22,213 that means your account is the target from a cybersecurity attack standpoint. 502 00:25:22,723 --> 00:25:26,113 Because if they can get in there and they can use MFA exhaustion 503 00:25:26,503 --> 00:25:28,273 to, uh, to get in as you. 504 00:25:29,158 --> 00:25:34,138 And um, and even if you know, as much as you may be good at cybersecurity, 505 00:25:34,408 --> 00:25:37,168 I will just say as a small business, you're probably not very good at 506 00:25:37,168 --> 00:25:39,808 cybersecurity, but even if you are very good at cybersecurity, and I 507 00:25:39,808 --> 00:25:44,968 consider myself pretty decent from a things I know I'm not supposed to do, 508 00:25:44,968 --> 00:25:46,888 and yet I've still done dumb stuff, 509 00:25:47,158 --> 00:25:47,488 right. 510 00:25:47,488 --> 00:25:49,438 I've still clicked on links that I shouldn't have. 511 00:25:49,438 --> 00:25:50,038 I've still. 512 00:25:50,393 --> 00:25:52,078 Yeah, I, I fell victim. 513 00:25:52,198 --> 00:25:56,728 And so if somebody gets in as you and they can delete your backups, you might as well 514 00:25:56,728 --> 00:25:58,198 have not have made 'em in the first place. 515 00:25:58,288 --> 00:26:01,378 And the reason why I say actual immutability is there are a lot of 516 00:26:01,378 --> 00:26:05,458 companies that advertise immutability that don't meet that requirement. 517 00:26:06,298 --> 00:26:12,898 Uh, immutability should be a binary condition like death or pregnant, right? 518 00:26:12,898 --> 00:26:16,468 You, you're either dead or pregnant or you're not. 519 00:26:16,803 --> 00:26:17,023 But. 520 00:26:18,328 --> 00:26:18,808 But there 521 00:26:18,808 --> 00:26:21,358 are certain things, like I know we've talked 522 00:26:22,318 --> 00:26:25,768 that if someone has physical access, all bets are off. 523 00:26:26,578 --> 00:26:27,148 Correct. 524 00:26:27,178 --> 00:26:29,878 If someone has physical access and a torch, 525 00:26:30,388 --> 00:26:30,808 right. 526 00:26:31,108 --> 00:26:35,313 Which is another reason, by the way, from a especially small business perspective, 527 00:26:35,458 --> 00:26:39,238 cloud backup is the way to go because the, the physical access is a lot 528 00:26:39,238 --> 00:26:43,468 bigger deal to, to, to get than it is when it's, when it's a small business. 529 00:26:43,468 --> 00:26:43,738 Right. 530 00:26:44,383 --> 00:26:44,773 Yeah, 531 00:26:45,493 --> 00:26:46,063 All right. 532 00:26:46,363 --> 00:26:50,593 Now, now that we've done that, what do you think is more important than immutability? 533 00:26:51,298 --> 00:26:55,468 I think that making sure that there are copies of your data out 534 00:26:55,468 --> 00:26:56,993 there to meet the 3, 2, 1 rule. 535 00:26:58,903 --> 00:27:05,803 So, I'm gonna agree that that is, is very important, but I'm gonna argue 536 00:27:05,803 --> 00:27:08,293 that if one copy doesn't exist, it's. 537 00:27:09,013 --> 00:27:10,873 Still like no backup happened. 538 00:27:11,023 --> 00:27:11,563 I will agree. 539 00:27:11,563 --> 00:27:12,763 We need to make another copy. 540 00:27:14,083 --> 00:27:14,563 Right. 541 00:27:15,253 --> 00:27:18,463 Uh, so we, you're saying we wanna follow the 3, 2, 1 rule is what you're saying? 542 00:27:18,538 --> 00:27:18,748 yep, 543 00:27:19,663 --> 00:27:22,333 And, and, and I, I've, I've both hardened and softened 544 00:27:22,333 --> 00:27:23,803 somewhere with the 3, 2, 1 rule. 545 00:27:23,803 --> 00:27:28,243 So my, you know, my repeated sort of, uh. 546 00:27:29,533 --> 00:27:30,133 What do you call it? 547 00:27:30,133 --> 00:27:33,883 Uh, research into the original 3, 2, 1 rule, which we had, by 548 00:27:33,883 --> 00:27:38,263 the way, the guy who coined the term 3, 2, 1 rule on the podcast. 549 00:27:38,263 --> 00:27:40,693 The original is considered one of the three copies. 550 00:27:40,693 --> 00:27:43,843 That's, that's the, that's the one thing that I, I have softened on a little bit. 551 00:27:44,263 --> 00:27:48,913 The other is the two needs to, it needs to be on two different types of 552 00:27:48,913 --> 00:27:53,923 systems, and again, considering that one of them is on the original, the other 553 00:27:53,923 --> 00:27:56,743 being on a cloud backup meets the two. 554 00:27:57,063 --> 00:27:57,543 Right. 555 00:27:57,843 --> 00:28:00,303 Uh, a lot of people are like, well, if I have two copies, but they're 556 00:28:00,303 --> 00:28:02,973 both in the cloud, that doesn't meet the two of the 3, 2, 1 rule. 557 00:28:03,423 --> 00:28:07,263 Um, and, but the one is real, the, the easiest 558 00:28:07,533 --> 00:28:09,273 when using a cloud backup system. 559 00:28:09,273 --> 00:28:12,003 The easiest to meet is the one, right, the 3, 2, 1 rule. 560 00:28:12,303 --> 00:28:16,413 One being make sure that one of the copies is somewhere else, right? 561 00:28:16,533 --> 00:28:17,733 We used to say offsite. 562 00:28:17,733 --> 00:28:20,193 Offsite doesn't really apply in, in a lot of cases, but just 563 00:28:20,193 --> 00:28:21,543 make sure it's somewhere else. 564 00:28:21,658 --> 00:28:21,958 Well the 565 00:28:21,958 --> 00:28:26,788 reason I bring this up is if we look at a lot of the cloud backup that say 566 00:28:26,788 --> 00:28:31,078 some of the vendors offer natively, they don't follow the 3, 2, 1 rule, 567 00:28:31,743 --> 00:28:32,473 No they don't. 568 00:28:33,298 --> 00:28:35,998 And so that's why I thought it was important. 569 00:28:35,998 --> 00:28:39,388 Now I agree immutability because if your copy isn't there, then what's the point? 570 00:28:40,423 --> 00:28:42,523 Yeah, because you can make all the copies you want. 571 00:28:42,523 --> 00:28:43,723 If I can delete all of them. 572 00:28:44,473 --> 00:28:45,043 That's what I'm saying. 573 00:28:45,073 --> 00:28:47,173 That's why I still, I still think mine Trump's yours. 574 00:28:47,173 --> 00:28:49,843 But as you know, I'm a big fan of the 3, 2, 1 rule. 575 00:28:50,503 --> 00:28:51,253 Um, I. 576 00:28:52,003 --> 00:28:56,803 Yeah, if you are not following the 3, 2, 1 rule, and you know where, where 577 00:28:56,863 --> 00:29:02,143 you really see this is in the SaaS world where you see a, a product like 578 00:29:02,143 --> 00:29:08,473 Microsoft 365 saying, and people that love Microsoft 365 saying that, well, you 579 00:29:08,473 --> 00:29:11,623 don't really need backup 'cause you have all these copies and you have all this 580 00:29:11,623 --> 00:29:14,503 stuff and you got all this history and you got all this stuff and you got this. 581 00:29:14,503 --> 00:29:18,823 Um, you gotta even have, um, retention policies where you can 582 00:29:18,823 --> 00:29:20,173 say that you can't delete it. 583 00:29:20,518 --> 00:29:25,198 Um, if it's, you know, it's gotta be at least 90 days, right? 584 00:29:25,203 --> 00:29:26,698 You, you can't delete it. 585 00:29:26,698 --> 00:29:30,568 So even if you delete it in your mailbox, it's still gonna be there. 586 00:29:31,288 --> 00:29:35,128 And, and I say, yeah, but it's still in the same place. 587 00:29:35,638 --> 00:29:41,488 It's, it's still, it's not a copy, it's just when, when you delete an email. 588 00:29:41,493 --> 00:29:45,633 And Microsoft 365, it de it sets a flag in the database 589 00:29:45,633 --> 00:29:47,823 that that email is now deleted. 590 00:29:48,003 --> 00:29:49,713 And so it just doesn't display it to you. 591 00:29:49,713 --> 00:29:50,643 It's still there. 592 00:29:50,793 --> 00:29:54,993 And then if you use, um, uh, retention policies to make sure that it doesn't 593 00:29:54,993 --> 00:29:59,133 actually get deleted, deleted, it's still there in the same place. 594 00:29:59,133 --> 00:30:02,193 It's just not being allowed to be deleted, which means that if 595 00:30:02,193 --> 00:30:04,203 something catastrophic happens, 596 00:30:04,483 --> 00:30:04,828 It's gone. 597 00:30:05,523 --> 00:30:06,003 it's gone. 598 00:30:06,198 --> 00:30:06,358 Yeah. 599 00:30:07,258 --> 00:30:11,458 Luckily, nothing catastrophic has ever happened in a Microsoft data center, 600 00:30:14,098 --> 00:30:15,688 A bit of sarcasm there, Curtis. 601 00:30:16,198 --> 00:30:18,628 but a little bit of sarcasm and, and it's not just Microsoft. 602 00:30:18,628 --> 00:30:19,708 I don't wanna pick a Microsoft. 603 00:30:19,708 --> 00:30:22,168 It's data centers, right? 604 00:30:22,228 --> 00:30:26,938 reason that I bring up the 3, 2, 1 rule is especially with SaaS applications, 605 00:30:26,938 --> 00:30:31,888 which I'm guessing a lot of small businesses are leveraging, it becomes 606 00:30:31,888 --> 00:30:33,838 important to take that into consideration. 607 00:30:34,753 --> 00:30:40,303 It does, because if the backup, if the SaaS service is basically saying 608 00:30:40,333 --> 00:30:44,143 backup is included, the question is where is that backup being stored? 609 00:30:44,923 --> 00:30:45,223 Right? 610 00:30:45,223 --> 00:30:47,173 Is it being stored on different infrastructure? 611 00:30:47,233 --> 00:30:49,213 If it's not being stored on different infrastructure? 612 00:30:49,213 --> 00:30:54,793 I would like you to go watch the episode that we have on OVH where it took out 613 00:30:54,793 --> 00:30:57,973 both the primary and the secondary right. 614 00:30:58,408 --> 00:31:01,828 Um, I don't care how amazing and how resilient your infrastructure is. 615 00:31:01,978 --> 00:31:05,968 Every resilient, every infrastructure needs something that is like backup, 616 00:31:06,838 --> 00:31:07,228 right? 617 00:31:07,648 --> 00:31:09,628 Is it on a, is it in another location? 618 00:31:09,628 --> 00:31:12,238 Are, are you relying on the primary as a copy, right? 619 00:31:12,238 --> 00:31:14,998 This is like, snapshots aren't backup unless they're copied somewhere. 620 00:31:15,808 --> 00:31:16,888 Um, um, 621 00:31:17,038 --> 00:31:21,118 is it a copy that you have access to, or is it just a copy that the 622 00:31:21,448 --> 00:31:25,078 SaaS provider is doing for their own disaster recovery purposes 623 00:31:25,078 --> 00:31:27,028 and doesn't actually let you recover data? 624 00:31:27,733 --> 00:31:28,093 Yeah. 625 00:31:28,093 --> 00:31:33,013 A perfect example of that again is Microsoft 365 and, uh, to 626 00:31:33,013 --> 00:31:34,243 a lesser degree Salesforce. 627 00:31:34,393 --> 00:31:39,733 Salesforce keeps changing, but Microsoft 365, they do apparently back up their data 628 00:31:39,733 --> 00:31:42,853 center for the purposes of Dr for them. 629 00:31:43,603 --> 00:31:46,633 Um, but that backup is not accessible to you. 630 00:31:47,113 --> 00:31:47,383 Right? 631 00:31:47,383 --> 00:31:49,783 I've clarified that multiple times with Microsoft. 632 00:31:49,783 --> 00:31:52,423 It is not accessible to you if you do something stupid 633 00:31:52,603 --> 00:31:52,873 Yep. 634 00:31:53,653 --> 00:31:54,943 and, um. 635 00:31:55,348 --> 00:31:59,938 And I, and I did that with a, with a very big company that had several 636 00:31:59,938 --> 00:32:04,618 hundred Microsoft, you know, so they, so they had a big old bill. 637 00:32:05,098 --> 00:32:07,918 They were a very big, you know, a decent sized customer 638 00:32:08,338 --> 00:32:10,258 and the answer to them was no. 639 00:32:10,528 --> 00:32:10,888 Right? 640 00:32:10,888 --> 00:32:12,598 That is not, is not for you. 641 00:32:12,778 --> 00:32:13,168 Right? 642 00:32:13,168 --> 00:32:16,738 So if that's the case for a company that has several hundred users, you 643 00:32:16,738 --> 00:32:21,388 with your five little email boxes in 365 are not gonna be anything, 644 00:32:21,748 --> 00:32:22,018 Yep. 645 00:32:22,648 --> 00:32:23,308 Um. 646 00:32:23,758 --> 00:32:27,388 Yeah, so you, you wanna make sure that it's, that it's outside and 647 00:32:27,388 --> 00:32:30,598 that, and that's why really I think, you know, a third party 648 00:32:30,598 --> 00:32:32,098 backup is really the only way to go. 649 00:32:32,098 --> 00:32:34,678 I don't care how amazing the included backup product is, 650 00:32:35,068 --> 00:32:38,938 it's not gonna give you that, that security of knowing that you have a 651 00:32:38,938 --> 00:32:42,508 copy that's in your control, even when the worst happens to that provider. 652 00:32:42,628 --> 00:32:42,898 Yep. 653 00:32:44,458 --> 00:32:44,818 Yeah. 654 00:32:45,928 --> 00:32:49,558 Um, the next thing I'm gonna say is just. 655 00:32:51,853 --> 00:32:55,843 Make sure that, you know, look at pricing, look at costs. 656 00:32:55,933 --> 00:32:58,933 Make sure to include things like restores and retention. 657 00:32:59,083 --> 00:33:00,973 I would like to retain this amount of data. 658 00:33:01,063 --> 00:33:05,533 Some, some of these products, they only allow you to store 60, 90 days, right? 659 00:33:05,893 --> 00:33:09,043 I'd like to store a year, whatever, whatever your requirements are that 660 00:33:09,073 --> 00:33:10,873 you as a business have decided. 661 00:33:12,043 --> 00:33:15,283 Look and get the cost of that, right. 662 00:33:15,373 --> 00:33:21,523 Um, the, especially if you are, if you are deciding, and this is, um, if, if 663 00:33:21,523 --> 00:33:23,383 you're, if you're doing cloud backup. 664 00:33:24,958 --> 00:33:28,738 It might be that restores aren't included in the price, or restores 665 00:33:28,738 --> 00:33:32,128 are included in the price, but then you have to pay the, the egress fee 666 00:33:32,128 --> 00:33:36,358 because they're running in a cloud provider that, that has egress fees. 667 00:33:37,108 --> 00:33:39,628 Make sure you look at the cost of restores. 668 00:33:39,868 --> 00:33:45,028 Uh, you might have additional costs if you want to do the restore quickly 669 00:33:45,598 --> 00:33:51,238 because they're using, um, something like, uh, glacier, um, you know, a deep archive 670 00:33:51,238 --> 00:33:53,488 type product that when you actually. 671 00:33:54,493 --> 00:33:55,873 Um, use it. 672 00:33:55,873 --> 00:33:58,963 You, you, you pay dearly to pull the data out of there, right? 673 00:33:59,038 --> 00:34:01,558 The one other thing to, since we're talking about restores, is 674 00:34:01,828 --> 00:34:06,358 also consider if they give you a faster restore alternative like 675 00:34:06,358 --> 00:34:10,168 Sneakernet or shipping you a device that contains your data, because that could 676 00:34:10,168 --> 00:34:12,118 help you quickly get back up and running. 677 00:34:12,118 --> 00:34:15,598 And yes, there might be an additional fee associated with it, but if it 678 00:34:15,598 --> 00:34:19,258 helps you get your environment back up and running significantly faster 679 00:34:19,258 --> 00:34:23,158 than pulling the data across, it may be worth it for you to consider. 680 00:34:23,938 --> 00:34:27,118 Yeah, we recorded an episode a couple weeks ago with our friend 681 00:34:27,748 --> 00:34:34,498 that he, he only, he only had, well it was, it was, it was, yeah, it was 682 00:34:34,498 --> 00:34:38,758 a terabyte of data, which again, this is, this is a, this is a, a heavy user. 683 00:34:38,758 --> 00:34:39,868 Most of it was photos. 684 00:34:40,828 --> 00:34:46,588 And he, he'd been backing up, uh, for quite a while with Carbonite, and this 685 00:34:46,588 --> 00:34:50,578 is his first big restore and he went to do it, and it took him a while. 686 00:34:50,758 --> 00:34:51,988 Uh, do you remember how long it 687 00:34:52,018 --> 00:34:53,503 I think it was like 22 days. 688 00:34:54,433 --> 00:34:55,213 Something like that. 689 00:34:55,513 --> 00:35:00,493 They offered a, a service to, to send a drive and, and he just decided 690 00:35:00,493 --> 00:35:03,763 not to do it, to save him money, but 691 00:35:04,093 --> 00:35:08,173 And the other thing to also note is that wasn't fully Carbonite's fault. 692 00:35:08,173 --> 00:35:11,383 It was also some issues he had with his laptop doing the 693 00:35:11,383 --> 00:35:12,193 restores, 694 00:35:12,668 --> 00:35:13,088 it does. 695 00:35:13,393 --> 00:35:16,603 not blaming Carbonite fully for the slow restore performance, 696 00:35:16,813 --> 00:35:20,923 but it just is how the stars aligned in his particular case. 697 00:35:21,418 --> 00:35:26,428 Yeah, I'm, I am, um, I'm actually asking him to redo at least a portion 698 00:35:26,428 --> 00:35:32,008 of the restore to see if his new newly minted, uh, internet service 699 00:35:32,038 --> 00:35:34,318 is, um, is gonna, is gonna fix that. 700 00:35:34,558 --> 00:35:37,708 So make sure you test restorers, make sure you test everything 701 00:35:37,708 --> 00:35:38,638 that's important to you. 702 00:35:38,878 --> 00:35:42,448 Make sure you test a large restore to see, and then you say, Hey, this 703 00:35:42,448 --> 00:35:44,008 is how, this is how this worked out. 704 00:35:44,158 --> 00:35:45,508 How can we make it better? 705 00:35:46,018 --> 00:35:46,438 Right. 706 00:35:46,528 --> 00:35:46,828 Um. 707 00:35:47,548 --> 00:35:51,298 And, and, and all of this is an experience, is a chance to experience 708 00:35:51,838 --> 00:35:53,968 the company's support system. 709 00:35:54,688 --> 00:35:56,128 Make sure you do that. 710 00:35:56,248 --> 00:35:59,638 Um, and just realize that the support you get during the pre-sale 711 00:35:59,638 --> 00:36:01,858 process is as good as it's gonna get. 712 00:36:02,293 --> 00:36:02,623 Yeah. 713 00:36:03,118 --> 00:36:06,358 So if it's crappy during, then, then you know that's not really, 714 00:36:06,823 --> 00:36:07,708 that's no good. 715 00:36:07,738 --> 00:36:08,368 No bueno. 716 00:36:08,413 --> 00:36:08,713 Yeah. 717 00:36:09,658 --> 00:36:11,488 Can you think of anything else that we, um. 718 00:36:14,353 --> 00:36:19,063 Um, I think one other thing is I'm sure that you know other 719 00:36:19,063 --> 00:36:24,403 people in your industry, talk to them, see what they use, right? 720 00:36:24,433 --> 00:36:26,173 See what's worked, what hasn't worked. 721 00:36:26,173 --> 00:36:28,243 Maybe they've tried a vendor and switched away, 722 00:36:28,873 --> 00:36:32,593 but talk to them and see what is common in that space. 723 00:36:33,118 --> 00:36:34,798 Yeah, I do a lot of Reddit searches. 724 00:36:34,798 --> 00:36:36,598 There's, there's a lot of stuff on Reddit. 725 00:36:36,648 --> 00:36:43,638 , and also look at the, the vulnerability database and see if, see the degree 726 00:36:43,638 --> 00:36:47,928 to which they have experienced vulnerabilities that some companies 727 00:36:47,928 --> 00:36:49,278 have a lot more than others. 728 00:36:49,278 --> 00:36:50,538 And I think that indicates 729 00:36:50,898 --> 00:36:52,938 something about that company, right? 730 00:36:53,118 --> 00:36:56,598 so here's a, I want your opinion on this. 731 00:36:56,718 --> 00:36:56,868 Mm-hmm. 732 00:36:57,978 --> 00:36:59,148 I'm a small business owner. 733 00:36:59,778 --> 00:37:01,278 Theoretically, right? 734 00:37:01,578 --> 00:37:03,288 I have a thousand things going on. 735 00:37:03,863 --> 00:37:04,083 Uh 736 00:37:04,368 --> 00:37:05,568 I gotta figure out backup. 737 00:37:06,143 --> 00:37:06,563 mm-hmm. 738 00:37:06,648 --> 00:37:10,338 Is it worthwhile for me to actually go do this research, go look up all these 739 00:37:10,338 --> 00:37:12,348 discussion forums, go investigate. 740 00:37:13,278 --> 00:37:18,888 Wouldn't it be better to reach out to like an MSP and take their advice, 741 00:37:20,313 --> 00:37:20,603 Yeah. 742 00:37:20,778 --> 00:37:23,388 least initially to understand what's going on? 743 00:37:23,388 --> 00:37:26,298 Like what I, because I may not even know anything about backup. 744 00:37:26,723 --> 00:37:31,248 I, I think that is a shortcut to a possibly better product. 745 00:37:31,608 --> 00:37:35,358 Um, not all MSPs are, are created equal. 746 00:37:35,658 --> 00:37:40,098 The idea behind the MSP is that they're making money off of this service, 747 00:37:40,098 --> 00:37:41,538 so they're not gonna pick a company. 748 00:37:41,538 --> 00:37:41,568 I. 749 00:37:42,468 --> 00:37:44,058 Whose product doesn't work. 750 00:37:44,388 --> 00:37:48,648 Um, that's not true in all cases, but I do think that that is, that's 751 00:37:48,648 --> 00:37:50,538 better than not doing the research. 752 00:37:50,568 --> 00:37:50,838 Right. 753 00:37:51,378 --> 00:37:52,908 That's better than doing no research. 754 00:37:52,968 --> 00:37:56,658 And then, then you, you still have to research the reputation of that MSP. 755 00:37:57,108 --> 00:38:01,788 Do they have a reputation for, you know, only picking products that work well? 756 00:38:01,968 --> 00:38:03,048 Um, you know, 757 00:38:03,348 --> 00:38:03,648 Yeah. 758 00:38:03,888 --> 00:38:05,478 Either that or like a var, right? 759 00:38:05,718 --> 00:38:09,408 I'm just thinking like a trusted partner you can go talk to, to 760 00:38:09,408 --> 00:38:12,588 get insights into what you should be doing rather than trying to 761 00:38:12,663 --> 00:38:15,663 if you already, if you already have a, a trusted, uh, partner 762 00:38:15,663 --> 00:38:16,953 that can do that for you. 763 00:38:17,073 --> 00:38:17,853 Yes, agreed. 764 00:38:17,943 --> 00:38:18,393 Agreed. 765 00:38:18,753 --> 00:38:23,044 There are a lot of, uh, cloud backup services that basically resell or, or 766 00:38:23,049 --> 00:38:25,203 get rebranded through MSP, so Agreed. 767 00:38:27,333 --> 00:38:27,663 All right. 768 00:38:27,753 --> 00:38:32,553 Well that is our answer for the best cloud backup solutions for small businesses. 769 00:38:32,643 --> 00:38:34,773 Uh, summary ones that work. 770 00:38:38,028 --> 00:38:41,118 All right, well, uh, thanks again for great discussion. 771 00:38:41,118 --> 00:38:41,588 Prasanna. 772 00:38:41,798 --> 00:38:42,628 Thank you, Curtis. 773 00:38:42,768 --> 00:38:46,383 And now I'm sure you're off to go enjoy the ginormous tv 774 00:38:47,298 --> 00:38:47,688 Maybe 775 00:38:47,883 --> 00:38:48,333 maybe. 776 00:38:49,698 --> 00:38:52,128 we're in the middle of watching six triple eight, 777 00:38:52,638 --> 00:38:57,168 which is the fascinating unknown story of a group. 778 00:38:57,228 --> 00:39:01,038 So at during World War II, there was called the Women Army 779 00:39:01,038 --> 00:39:02,898 Corps and there was a black. 780 00:39:03,213 --> 00:39:07,533 Uh, division of the Women's Army Corps, and they were given, uh, what was 781 00:39:07,533 --> 00:39:12,993 considered an impossible job, which was there, there was mail that had 782 00:39:12,993 --> 00:39:17,283 backlogged for months and had piled up and were millions and millions and 783 00:39:17,283 --> 00:39:23,583 millions of undelivered letters, both good news from home, dead soldiers, 784 00:39:23,583 --> 00:39:28,173 letters back to their families, you know, all the really important stuff. 785 00:39:28,203 --> 00:39:32,993 And, um, they were given the job, a job that people that multiple other 786 00:39:32,993 --> 00:39:38,063 groups had tried and failed and, um, they were given six months to 787 00:39:38,063 --> 00:39:41,453 do it and, um, they did it in three. 788 00:39:42,323 --> 00:39:43,553 Never heard of this group. 789 00:39:43,703 --> 00:39:47,453 Uh, six Triple eight was the number of their company, and, uh, 790 00:39:47,453 --> 00:39:48,893 it was an all black battalion. 791 00:39:49,313 --> 00:39:53,183 And, uh, amazing story, uh, starring Olivia Pope. 792 00:39:53,573 --> 00:39:58,103 As the commander, um, which, uh, Olivia Pope is, um, quite well known. 793 00:39:58,823 --> 00:40:04,013 And, uh, you know, it's a good, um, uh, you know, another great 794 00:40:04,013 --> 00:40:06,293 historical drama on Netflix. 795 00:40:06,413 --> 00:40:08,753 Anyway, so we're in the midst of watching that. 796 00:40:09,203 --> 00:40:09,323 Awesome. 797 00:40:09,773 --> 00:40:10,283 All right. 798 00:40:10,283 --> 00:40:12,713 I wanna say thank you to our listeners. 799 00:40:12,713 --> 00:40:13,973 You are why we do this. 800 00:40:13,973 --> 00:40:15,443 I hope this episode was helpful. 801 00:40:15,473 --> 00:40:16,793 That is a wrap.