Foreign.

And welcome to the Pat Accounting Podcast with me, your host, Vicki Clark.

I'm going to help you get to grips with your finances, save you lots of money and take the stress out of doing your tax return.

So let's get going.

Hi, everyone.

Welcome to this week's live.

You have two Vickies for the price of one today, because we've got Vicki and Vicky today.

Vicky from Animal Focus alliance, one of our very lovely sponsors of the Pet Pro Export as well, which we'll touch on a bit later.

But I thought it'd be really good to get Vicky on, to go through what the Animal Focus lines is, what it can do for you and how it can help, because I think it's really important and I think you're making waves anyway because I've seen so much online, so I just thought, really good, let's get Vicki on.

She can tell everyone about it.

And then if you've got any questions, please pop them in the comments and I'll ask them to Vicki at the end.

And again, if you're watching this in the replay, if you've got any comments, you are in the group, aren't you?

Yes, I am.

Yep.

So Vicky can answer the questions even if you watch on the replay or if you're listening to it on the podcast.

And all of Vicky's details will be on the podcast on the group as well, if you want to follow up with anything.

So, hello and welcome to the Pat Accountant Podcast.

Formal introduction, though.

Oh, yeah.

I should have a little recorded bit, but I don't.

How are you anyway?

You good?

I am good.

Thank you so much for having me.

That's absolutely my pleasure.

Do you want to just tell people a bit of your background first, in case they don't know who you are?

Yes.

So my name is Vicky Skinner.

I am founder of the Animal Focused alliance and also founder of Animal Focused, so two slightly different companies.

The Animal Focused alliance is our newest venture, which is we started up in sort of April, May time, and we are a trade association supporting pet professionals with the key aim of supporting pet professionals predominantly with welfare and making sure that welfare standards for the animals in their care are optimum, but also that they can help owners understand how to ensure the care of their animals, but also support with a range of business activities, in particular licensing.

And I will sort of come on to why we have specific license and knowledge as I sort of go through my history, I guess.

So a bit about me.

My background is in animal behavior.

I have a degree in animal behavior back in the days I then left university and went to work.

I did two jobs.

I worked as a dog trainer and behaviorist back in Scotland and I worked at a local riding for the disabled centre where I was sort of managing the air centre and the ponies and things there was.

I did that for a year or so and then for various reasons decided Scotland was not the place I wanted to be.

Too clown, which is a whole other story.

And I ended up moving down to Northamptonshire where I started lecturing at a land based college.

So I was teaching animal welfare, which covered a bit of everything really.

It ranged from sort of care and welfare, nutrition, behavior, a little bit of work, special needs learners, a little bit of everything.

And I was teaching for 13 years, at which point I met my now husband and started having babies.

And suddenly life was very much in Northampton.

I then moved on to secret trade association who Shall Remain Nameless.

And I was there for a number of years as their head of education.

So in that job I developed a range of qualifications training programs for pet professionals.

So that was really my first step to working with adult learners, those people who were already in the job, rather than preparing sort of 16, 18 year olds for the job.

I was there for eight years and then was made redundant and set up the original Animal Focused.

So not the alliance which was doing, or is still doing some canine assisted therapy with our dog Hero, and also doing some support for pet professionals in particular in relation to animal licensing.

So Animal Focused offers a unique qualification for animal licensing inspectors.

So under the animal licensing regulations, inspectors have to be qualified in order to inspect those premises.

So your dog daycare, your pet shop crop, your kennels, your breeders, your catteries, animal encounters, all those sorts of things.

So we worked with City of London and their team of inspectors to develop a qualification to deliver so that those inspectors are able to legally do their job and are competent to do their job, which is quite, quite a key factor.

It's an important job as well.

So you would.

Yeah.

And I mean, I think what tends to happen in local councils is you're involved in licensing and that licensing may not necessarily be animal related and then suddenly you're moved department and you're licensing, you know, animals that maybe you don't know very much about.

So our training very much focuses on understanding what the legislation and the guidance asks, but also what the welfare of those animals, you know, what the animal welfare needs are, how to ensure them, how, how to walk into a pet shop and recognise actually maybe this animal isn't okay.

Maybe we need to do something how to walk into a dog daycare and recognise actually, you know, there's a very happy looking pack of dogs, except for that one who is petrified in the corner or hiding under a table.

So it's about giving the inspectors the confidence to recognize and to implement any actions or changes that need to be made.

So that was about 18 months ago.

We then in March this year launched the Welsh version.

So because the legislation has devolved, inspectors in England, don't necessarily work in Wales.

So we've got a Welsh version now as well, which we will hopefully have our first few learners going through and completing, actually getting the qualification in September.

Fabulous.

So that was the last sort of two and a half years.

And then because we were aware that there is very much a gap in the support that's offered for pet businesses.

And I mean this in a very like, there's loads of support out there, you do a great job, there's loads of coaches, but actually quite often what is missing is that stuff.

If you were part of a large organization, if you're part of pets at home or your jollies, you get the HR updates that tell you when this legislation's changed, how to do your safe manual handling training, what to do about gdpr, how to manage loan working situations.

And actually if you're a sole trader, it's difficult to know where to find those updates, it's difficult to know what information is accurate, where to turn.

So really we want to sort of be in the alliance, we want to be that support that sort of go to place where we can tell you that actually, you know, there's been a change to data protection legislation, there's been a change to animal licensing legislation.

So for example, just in the last couple of weeks the government have announced or have released their guidance for the new primate legislation.

Now primate legislation for most people is like, well, I don't need to worry about that, I don't have a zoo.

But actually there are a number of colleges, there are a number of private collections and there are some animal encounters who have little marmoset monkeys, tamarind monkeys that they do, or lemurs that they do walkthroughs or they take out and about with them and actually now they need to be licensed.

Know this, if you're a little sole trader, until somebody's knocking at your door saying you're working illegally.

Yeah.

How do you know things have changed?

So really part of the alliance's role is to make sure our members are informed, they're informed of changes to legislation, to changes in best practice, to changes in thoughts about, you know, animal welfare in general.

So, yeah, and we are hoping that our logo will get to the point of being sort of a mark of respect, a mark of confidence for those businesses who choose to sign up.

Yeah.

And like you said, it's difficult to find the right information away from.

It's the same with the HMRC stuff.

You could type in something into Google and get like, 500 different answers.

And unless you're, you know, getting these emails from somewhere that give you the updates, you're never going to know.

And it's, like I said, like you said, it's hard for, you know, sole traders to say, right, well, how do I know if this legislation's changed and if I Google it, are they going to get the right answer?

Or they're just going to get 500, like, random things from Google and then still be no further forward?

So if they've got a central focal point where they say, right, if I can join up with you, I'm going to find out all this information and it's going to be told to me and I've got one focal point to go to to keep me up to date, then happy days.

That is hard.

It is really hard.

And what we've been able to do is we've now got two primary authority partnerships, so one with City of London for England and one with Monmouthshire County Council for Wales.

And what that means is we are directly linked to the local authority and they will give us assured advice on any specific questions.

So if a member comes to us and says, well, actually, my inspector's got an issue about xyz, We've had a couple of examples already where an inspector.

Inspectors asked for something that isn't actually part of the guidance.

So, for example, we had an inquiry this week where an inspector had asked to see DBS certificate and the DBS certificate was coming.

It wasn't that they weren't bothered it was coming.

But that's not in the licensing.

The licensing is about animal welfare.

Therefore that DBS check is not a requirement for licensing.

So the member had come to us and said, you know, how do we handle this?

It's coming, but we don't want to delay a license.

And actually we were able to give them the response to go back to their licensing officer and say, so it's having that reassurance that actually any information that we give isn't just my opinion on what things should be.

This is coming from a secure source through our Primary authority partnership.

Fabulous.

I think your question's come through actually.

Can I slow down a little bit?

As a bunny borer, it's awful explaining the vaccine protocol to customers when the vets don't always know or do either.

Yeah.

And I mean I think there's an awful lot within animal care that is ethical debate rather than a legal debate.

We would always advocate best practice and anything that would reduce an animal's suffering and maximize their welfare.

But working with pet owners is one of the hardest things to do because quite often the owners are so convinced everything is correct that they're.

Their rather round dog is just loved, not actually suffering because of its weight.

So dealing with owners and in some cases other professionals who have different opinions on how to do things of what should be done can be quite difficult to manage.

Well, we get that as well, especially when we talk about the chiropractor massage debate.

Sometimes it's just literally impossible because everyone argues and no, I'm right.

No, I'm right and I put it through and I don't.

And.

And our job as the alliance isn't to pass judgment.

Our job is to give you the facts.

Actually, this is legally where you stand.

This is what the best practice advice is.

We are not auditing anybody.

Our members sign up to our code of conduct, but we're not going out and auditing what they're doing on a day to day basis.

Our job is to support that business and signpost them.

And obviously if somebody came to us and said so and so's got your sticker and this has happened, then we would investigate that at that point.

Right.

And what do the members get when they do sign up with you?

What's sort of the protocol or.

So you sign up online, you get access to our digital logo and you get your window sticker that comes through.

You then have access to the member portal which has a range of support documents, some training and things that will be coming online hopefully in September, which has been hanging over my shoulders the whole holidays and I'm still not there with it.

Discounts on various products and pet services, for example Petro Expo.

Well, yes, and you get a discount.

So if you want your ticket cheap.

Sign up discount for Pet Pro Expo discount or with pet business insurance discount with some of the products and services which we sort of update regularly and most importantly access to us and the questions that you have and the support that you need.

So it would be a case if they did have a question.

Is it more like an email address that they email or A telephone number that they use.

Because we're starting small.

We are very new.

Email, you know, Facebook messenger is the best way to get us because we're juggling a lot of pies and trying to get a phone call isn't always easy and we're not always in the mindset that we're getting you the answer that you need at that point.

However, we have spoken to a number of members because actually the conversations have been more complex or actually they've emailed us with a question, but it was easier to explain the answer over the phone.

But ideally our initial point of contact would be an email.

Fabulous.

And does it cost them to sign up?

It is.

It's £120 for.

Per year for a sole trader.

So between one and three members of staff, we're sort of saying £120.

Yeah.

And then it goes up in brackets, depending on the size of the business.

But we're fully aware that the majority of the people who will benefit from our services are those sole traders.

Roller ones.

Yeah.

And 10 pound a month, you can't go wrong with that, really, for the peace of mind and having, like, focal points to go to and not have to worry, you know, where am I going to get this information?

And stress.

They can just email you and say, this is what's happened.

What do I do?

Yeah.

And we've got monthly newsletters that come out, have sort of.

So most of our stuff goes out on social media.

Obviously.

There's some stuff that we sort of keep back for members or that is sort of in more depth for members, and that goes out in our monthly newsletter to members so that you're.

You're getting everything in one place.

Fab.

And what's your sort of, like, end goal?

Like where.

Like, what do you want the extra to be in it?

Like, is it something you say?

Right.

When I've got.

By this point, I wanted to have, like, training courses and I want the telephone line.

Like, what do you.

Yeah, I mean, the aim.

The aim would be really that we were.

The logo was recognized actually, as a member of the public.

You walk past a pet shop and.

Or a daycare.

You go to your daycare, the dog's gonna join me and you see the logo and you think, I'm choosing them because they prioritize with the animal.

That's the game.

I'm not.

Obviously, as we grow as a company, we'll need to grow and it would be great to have employees.

It's not just me.

There are sort of others in the Background.

But it would be great to have, you know, an office.

And actually, the important thing is that we are making a difference.

And actually, businesses and the animals within them are thriving because of the support we're offering.

Yeah.

And it makes sense.

And I think people should get on board and do it because, like you say, from a business perspective and like, as a customer, for me, if I know that that company has got the animal welfare in its forefront of its mind, I'm more likely to go to them than I am someone else that's just popped up down the road who's not really done anything.

How is it with, like, getting the information out to sort of general members of the public, like dog owners?

Because, like, for example, my.

My auntie and uncle, that they're old, bless them, and they've got.

I think it's a Labrador spaniel cross.

It's kind of the size of a spaniel, but looks like a Labrador.

And I saw it for the first time in a couple of years the other week.

Oh, my God.

So the size of a barrel.

And I'm like, I think, you know, Molly might be a little bit overweight.

She loves a bourbon.

She loves a chocolate bourbon.

And it's like, even, I guess they're old and they don't.

And, you know, the dog's fine.

She just loves a chocolate bourbon on a nighttime.

And you think, but how?

Like, it can't be easy to get that message to people to go, well, you know, you shouldn't really be feeding your dog chocolate bourbons anyway.

But also, your dog's huge.

And I mean, this looked like a keg on legs.

And I'm not even.

I'm not even exaggerating.

People think, oh, she must.

I promise you, it was a keg on legs.

Waddle around.

Yeah, honestly, it was a keg the size of a cake.

Then this is it.

It's actually.

It's no better for a dog to be that shape than it is to be significantly underweight.

And I think that's quite often missed.

And the reality is pet professionals see more of these dogs than the vets do.

You know, every.

Yeah.

You know, people are aware of the cost of the vet.

You go for your annual checkup, your 6 monthly checkup, and then actually, you're only really there if there's a problem.

Whereas your dog walker, your daycarer, your groomer are seeing these animals regularly.

They're noticing the difference and they have the knowledge and experience and qualifications to actually say, look, this dog is struggling for breath.

There is a Skin irritation, there's an eye irritation.

Obviously they're not diagnosing, but they're then able to raise these conversations and some of those conversations can be really difficult.

Nobody, you know, lots of people view their pets like their children and nobody wants to be criticized on how they're breaking up their children or their pets.

But actually, you can empower owners to actually do what's right because more often than not, it's a lack of understanding.

Yeah.

Very few people have a pet that they are deliberately mistreating.

No, those are very few and far between.

Even, you know, the people who hoard, you know, hundreds of dogs and cats in their house and their eyes are doing it for the right reasons.

And it's about educating in order to then make those changes and improve welfare.

Yeah.

I mean, my mom comes into the office every Wednesday and she just comes for it because we have tart Wednesday and we go to the local bakers.

She only comes for that.

But we've got two sausage dogs.

One of them is a standard wired head one called Mabel.

She's only two.

My mom, she walked in, my mum goes, oh, you're skinny.

Look how skinny she is.

You've upfell.

I'm like, she's not skinny.

She's leaning.

We had a flat coat retriever who we lost a couple of years ago, but she was always on the lean side and people used to say to us, oh my God, she looks so young.

And I'm like, you don't mean young, you just mean.

Yeah, but she says, oh.

I was like, she's just.

Mabel is really long for a sausage dog like she is.

We call her a noodle because she is really, really long.

And I'm like, ma', am, she gets fed enough and she gets treats left, right and center.

She's not thin, she's just perfectly fine.

People view, you know, if you, if your condition scored in between 1 and 5 and 3 is where you want it to be.

I think there is a, a sort of a misconception amongst the general public that actually three plus four is normal and actually having a waistline be able is normal.

Yeah, she's not skinny.

I'll get her if she comes in just in case anyone's concerned.

She's not.

She's frank, on the other hand, a little bit tubby, but he's a miniature sausage dog.

But again, we could go on.

But it is just a misconception and a lack of education, isn't it?

And I guess from your point, it must be difficult to try and get that information out there to the general member of the public.

But we do have a question from Helen.

Would you help with weirdoing of things such as contracts?

We would, yes.

We don't currently have any example contracts, but we certainly are able to look over things and review things in line with what we're expecting to see and what would be best practice to be included.

What sort of.

Just in case people are wondering, sort of what things they can ask.

What questions have you been asked from members.

So far have been about licensing or.

Our other sort of key topic of conversation at the moment is about the potential of licensing in the future and whether or not, A, it would be wanted and B, it should come about.

Obviously, there's a bit of a discussion at the moment about the licensing in England of sort of rescue centres and sanctuaries.

There's a discussion in Wales similarly about.

In fact, they're slightly further on about licensing of rescue centres and sanctuaries and then potentially in phase two of groomers.

So it's very exciting and there's been a lot of.

A lot of excitement.

But the reality is any form of legislation takes a long, long time and just because it's been discussed now doesn't mean anything is going to happen.

The original license and regulations were issued in 2018 and they were supposed to be reviewed after three years and the review eventually came out at the start of this year.

That's the sort of timescale that we tend to be looking at.

So while it's great that these conversations are happening, getting overly excited about them and really starting to think about what it would look like is probably a little bit preemptive.

Yeah.

Because I guess from groomers, because it's been a topic of conversation for years.

Even when I first started in the industry, night back in 2021, people were talking about groomers being having a license or regulated in some way, shape or form, and I do think they should be.

I mean, do you.

I don't know.

What.

Am I allowed to ask your opinion on that, whether you think they should be.

I think these as welfare standards is a positive thing and I think it would be positive if there was an equal playing field for all pet businesses.

Yeah.

What is more complicated?

Because what is currently licensed is the premises.

Now, if you're a dog walker, if you're a mobile groomer or a groomer who happens to go into somebody else's house, what are you licensing?

You're not licensing the premises, therefore registration may be a better option.

Whereas.

But I do think There should be something other than just the Animal Welfare act that makes a profession.

It's gonna be some sort of benchmark, like some standard that everyone's got to adhere to otherwise.

And even from, like a business point of view, you get all these people popping up left, right and center who decided to be a dog groomer or a dog walker and don't take it seriously.

And you see it all over social media, the horror stories, and that's because there isn't a benchmark for it.

I mean, I could say I'm going to be a dog groomer.

Yeah.

I think dog walking is probably one of the worst for that.

Dog groomers tend to at least understand a.

There's a little bit of investment in kit, so you have to be a little bit more serious about it.

And they tend to get some form of training.

Whether or not that training is adequate is a whole other conversation.

Whereas dog walkers, students are looking for a little bit extra cash.

You know, I've never have a dog.

Before, and they've got like 17 dogs on lead.

And you think, are they insured?

You know, is there car insurance covering the fact that they've got these dogs?

How are the dogs secured in the car?

Are they just turning up at a park or a forestry commission place and letting the dogs run wild with no understanding of the dog's behavior?

For dogs recall, there's a.

There's a number of issues.

Don't get me wrong.

There are some excellent dog walkers.

Yeah.

And it's not a critique of dog walkers at all.

I think dog walking is something that's very easy to step into without really having the knowledge to do it as a profession.

And not really that costly if you've got a car.

Yeah.

You just literally say, I'm going to dog walk now.

Give me a dog.

Yeah, yeah.

And of charges, inquest and privilege.

Well, exactly.

But it's not the onus of the.

The owner of the dog to do their due diligence, though, as well.

Yeah, completely.

One of our sort of projects moving forward will be about actually getting pet professionals to share things.

Like, actually, I am insured.

I am DBS checked.

Like, I am a professional, not just somebody down the street who's got a spare Friday afternoon.

I mean, we see it.

I mean, I'm the northeast and I'm obviously on the Facebook groups, and I see people just, pop, not going, oh, my, start a dog walking business.

And they look about 12, I just think.

But there's no mention of assurance.

There's no mention of, like, Any sort of like dog behavior, qualifications or first.

I had Rachel been on a few weeks ago talking about the importance of first aid and that, you know, people go and spend 20 quid off Gripon on a first aid course that doesn't really show them anything and then says, what about first aid qualified?

So there's a. I think there's a lot of holes that need to be plugged, but like you said, it's going to be, it's going to be, it.

It'S, it's being discussed and that is a real positive.

But it is by no means imminent.

Yeah, but hopefully what you're doing with the Animal Focus alliance will help bring.

That to the fore.

And we are pushing and in conversation various sort of political groups or support groups or government organizations to try and push various bits and pieces forward.

But obviously we are, we're starting small and until we have more members, actually we don't, we can't claim to be the voice of pet professionals because we're still very small.

Give me another few years and actually we'll have a much louder voice and we'll be making much more noise.

And yeah, really, I hope people get.

On board with it.

And like I say, you need the members to help push this through because otherwise, like you say, you can't do it on your own.

They're not going to listen to one person.

So if we all get on board with it and then push it and help push it forward, then it can't be a bad thing, can it?

So I think for sake of a tenor, a month, which would be a business expense, everyone, if you're worried, get on board and let's help get these issues raised.

Because I think it does need to be, like I say, there's a lot of holes that need to be plugged and I think people need to start taking it seriously and hopefully we can.

When I speak to you in like two years time, there'll be like a panel of people.

Yeah, look at our loads of podcasts on 20 August 2025.

But I think.

No, I think people do need to get on board, you know, and, and hopefully people listen to the podcast.

It's going to go out to thousands of people and obviously people in the group and you will.

Are you coming to the Expo?

Yes.

Well, yeah, so you'll be there and hopefully have a.

We'll have a slot for all of the sponsors just to let people know who they are and what they are.

Um, and there'll be things in the goodie bag and Stuff as well.

Um, so make sure guys, if you are listening, get on board.

Um, we'll put at the very least.

Follow us on social media.

That would be a start.

Yeah, get them all followed.

Well, if you do a post in the group with all of the links and email links and stuff to your website and your Facebook page, et cetera and we'll get that in.

Um, and we'll put all the links on the podcast as well to make sure that we can push this forward.

Like I said, Vicky's gonna be there at the Expo, so make sure you come and you can bombard you with loads of questions at the Expo.

We're not mad.

Ready.

I'm happy to take some question.

Maybe not on Friday night or Saturday night after a few beverages, but no, it'd be good.

And we do appreciate the sponsorship and the support for the Expo as well.

And it's like first event so it's similar.

People don't know what to expect.

But it's going to be a bloody good day.

If it kisses me, if it kills me and I go gray, I.

It will be a fabulous day and we'll have a well earned beverage afterwards.

Absolutely.

And that just excites about it.

It's pet professionals who want to do things right, who want to make things better.

That's what it's all about.

Exactly.

So again, we didn't want sponsors who were not tied in with the ethos of it.

So, you know, we want to make people better, we want people to have proper businesses, we want people to succeed, we want them to do it properly and hopefully there'll be a lot of support there on the day and we'll just make it a better place to be to my slogan for today.

But no, it's been great having you on board and I think what you're doing is great.

Massive advocate of it and I think people need to get on board with it, get following, get signed up, get the stickers out there.

Maybe you could give us a sticker at the Expo and I can put one on my car and I'll get it everywhere.

I can send you one if you.

Want it before the please send me a sticker and we'll have it put it somewhere where everyone can see it.

But like I say, we'll put all of Vicky's details on the group and on our socials.

So please, please, please drop her a follow and sign up so that we can get these things sorted.

Helen, as a quick question, I do animal aromatherapy, so would you be able to help with the legalities of this.

She's not sure why she put all question mark at the end.

That was it.

I think that's probably a question to have away from here.

It's not something we currently cover.

And I'm just trying to think in terms of legalities.

Is this in terms of diagnosing or is this.

I think there's conversations to have about what legalities you're concerned in, but certainly because we have a primary authority partnership, we can go and get advice from City of London.

Yeah, it's another one from Helen.

It would be great if it was regulated across the board, but so many councils make their own rules easy for dog breeding.

Well, and that, I mean, that goes back to the original Animal Focus, the Purple Animal Focused, which is actually about trying to raise standards for the animal licensing inspectors and giving them training.

So actually they're delivering, or we are delivering a webinar to Scottish inspectors in October, all about breeding, because Scotland licenses dog breeders, cat breeders and rabbit breeders, which is different from England, who only do dog breeders and whales.

So actually we've got some training happening for the Scottish inspectors in October.

So we are working online.

And HMRC are cracking down on breeders as well.

So there we go.

Yes, like, massively, we had like an influx of people last year which had the decoration letters through from HMRC being like, sorry, I'm just.

I'm just glad to sign hole saying, the electric's gone off.

Oh, but I'm still on.

So you're still on.

I'm still speaking to you.

Why aren't I still on?

They hold up a little paper sign saying the electric's gone off, so I best go and see what the hell is going on.

It's weird because I can see the lights are on, so maybe it's just in the other office somewhere.

Somewhere.

But no, thank you so much for, for coming on.

It's been lovely to chat to you and obviously we'll see you in a couple of months in November.

We will get you on in a year's time, same day next year and we'll see where we're at with things, but keep us posters and just make sure you put everything on the group so that people can know where to find you and where they can sign up.

Yes, I will, Ben.

Fabulous.

Well, nice to have you.

Hope everyone's well and we'll be back next week with another special guest.

Instead of tax.

I don't know, I can't remember who it is, but I will let everyone know and like, I said the doors for the expo are closing on the 31st of this month so please, please please grab a ticket.

We've got 90 when's your membership and got your discount?

Yes.

All right to Animal Folks alliance.

Get your discount and then buy right to a ticket and you'll get it even cheaper.

But there's only 19 left and we will be closing the doors on the 31st of August without fail.

So please grab one now if you need.

Like I said, you can get a discount through Vikki as well if you want to go down that route.

Fabulous.

Right, well have fun everyone and we'll.

Catch up with you next week.

Bye.

Thanks for listening.

If you've enjoyed my podcast, don't forget to subscribe for me and if you want to speak to me please visit my website@www.petaccountant.co.uk and if you'd like to join my Facebook group which is full of like minded pet professionals, then search accounting for pet professionals in Facebook and I will see you there.

Sa.