00:00:00.657 --> 00:00:05.237
Kevin Lowe: Today's conversation with Joe Smarro, it honestly, it cuts deep.
00:00:05.597 --> 00:00:10.837
Kevin Lowe: But just like a rainbow comes after the storm, the same can be true for life.
00:00:11.117 --> 00:00:15.317
Kevin Lowe: Because after the trauma, after all the adversity, there is healing.
00:00:15.637 --> 00:00:19.697
Kevin Lowe: There is a rainbow in store for all of us. Now, before we get to that rainbow,
00:00:19.937 --> 00:00:21.217
Kevin Lowe: there are the storms of life.
00:00:21.557 --> 00:00:27.217
Kevin Lowe: Joe Smarrow's story, it begins with trauma, big T trauma.
00:00:27.757 --> 00:00:30.097
Kevin Lowe: I'm talking about abuse, neglect.
00:00:30.717 --> 00:00:36.157
Kevin Lowe: Even setting his bed on fire is just a child. But the battles that Joe would
00:00:36.157 --> 00:00:37.977
Kevin Lowe: face, they didn't just end with childhood.
00:00:38.217 --> 00:00:40.297
Kevin Lowe: They weren't just confined to his home.
00:00:40.557 --> 00:00:45.297
Kevin Lowe: Because Joe, he would go on to join the military. He would serve as a Marine.
00:00:45.877 --> 00:00:50.837
Kevin Lowe: After the Marines, he'd serve as a police officer, a crisis negotiator,
00:00:50.977 --> 00:00:52.777
Kevin Lowe: and a mental health advocate.
00:00:53.137 --> 00:00:58.277
Kevin Lowe: But even through all of these chapters in Joe's story, all of these different
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Kevin Lowe: titles, these different hats that he's worn, the most amazing transformation,
00:01:02.297 --> 00:01:04.097
Kevin Lowe: it's what happened inside.
00:01:04.577 --> 00:01:08.837
Kevin Lowe: This is a story of trauma, of transformation, of radical truth.
00:01:09.097 --> 00:01:13.877
Kevin Lowe: It's a story that proves that true healing, it doesn't come from hiding the
00:01:13.877 --> 00:01:16.977
Kevin Lowe: pain, but rather from having the courage to face it.
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Kevin Lowe: If today's episode goes the way I hope, my friend, you yourself are going to
00:01:22.137 --> 00:01:26.577
Kevin Lowe: leave a better version of you than when you came. Now, listen,
00:01:26.757 --> 00:01:29.697
Kevin Lowe: before you dive in, I want you to do me a big favor.
00:01:29.917 --> 00:01:34.677
Kevin Lowe: I want you in whatever app you're listening, whether that's Apple Podcasts,
00:01:34.817 --> 00:01:38.297
Kevin Lowe: Spotify, you name it, I want you to click that follow button.
00:01:38.417 --> 00:01:41.437
Kevin Lowe: It's right at the top of your screen on your phone.
00:01:41.857 --> 00:01:46.837
Kevin Lowe: Hit the follow button. That way it helps support the show by letting the apps
00:01:46.837 --> 00:01:50.117
Kevin Lowe: know that we've got more people listening and following the podcast.
00:01:50.117 --> 00:01:56.957
Kevin Lowe: But it also, most importantly, ensures that you never miss another episode of this podcast.
00:01:57.297 --> 00:02:02.277
Kevin Lowe: I have episodes coming out every week and, well, I like to believe each week
00:02:02.277 --> 00:02:04.257
Kevin Lowe: brings value to your life.
00:02:04.377 --> 00:02:09.437
Kevin Lowe: So hit the follow button to be sure that you are all geared up and set for when
00:02:09.437 --> 00:02:11.117
Kevin Lowe: next week's episode drops.
00:02:11.477 --> 00:02:17.637
Kevin Lowe: And with that, my friend, this is episode 397 of Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.
00:02:18.057 --> 00:02:23.317
Kevin Lowe: I'm your host, Kevin Lowe. And who, baby, if you can't tell I'm excited you're
00:02:23.317 --> 00:02:28.097
Kevin Lowe: here, well, please just know from the bottom of my heart, I am thrilled you're here today.
00:02:28.277 --> 00:02:32.677
Kevin Lowe: And I believe without a shadow of a doubt that you're here for a reason.
00:02:32.877 --> 00:02:36.797
Kevin Lowe: And I have to believe that there's something that you're going to hear today
00:02:36.797 --> 00:02:42.917
Kevin Lowe: brought to us by Joe Smarro that might just change your life. Welcome to the podcast.
00:02:43.477 --> 00:02:45.917
Podcast Intro Song: I Got Grit, Grace, & Inspiration on my mind...
00:03:00.885 --> 00:03:06.085
Kevin Lowe: What's happening, everybody. Welcome back to today's episode. I am in the studio today
00:03:06.085 --> 00:03:08.405
Kevin Lowe: with a guy named Joe Smarrow.
00:03:08.925 --> 00:03:12.125
Kevin Lowe: Joe, man, it is a pleasure to have you here. Welcome to the podcast.
00:03:12.825 --> 00:03:15.345
Joe Smarro: Thank you, Kevin. Really looking forward to the conversation with you, brother.
00:03:15.845 --> 00:03:18.745
Kevin Lowe: Yeah, man. Well, I'm excited to get to dive into your story.
00:03:18.985 --> 00:03:22.285
Kevin Lowe: And obviously, I mean, it makes no sense, but to start at the beginning.
00:03:22.705 --> 00:03:27.485
Kevin Lowe: And so specifically, though, you know, my first question is kind of going back to childhood.
00:03:27.945 --> 00:03:31.465
Kevin Lowe: Would love just to kind of hear a little bit about that aspect of your life,
00:03:31.685 --> 00:03:36.285
Kevin Lowe: just snapshot of childhood memories that you stand out to you,
00:03:36.625 --> 00:03:38.985
Kevin Lowe: just kind of getting a picture of where it all kind of started.
00:03:39.565 --> 00:03:43.725
Joe Smarro: Yeah. And Kevin, you have my full permission to cut me off anytime you want.
00:03:43.865 --> 00:03:46.225
Joe Smarro: All right. Cause I heard like, tell me childhood.
00:03:46.465 --> 00:03:49.745
Joe Smarro: And then you said snapshot. So I was like, Oh, I got to wrap this up.
00:03:50.185 --> 00:03:52.965
Kevin Lowe: No, no, no, no. That's all good, man.
00:03:53.425 --> 00:03:57.505
Joe Smarro: Yeah. Thank you for that. And I, I still, to this day, I'm 43 years old and
00:03:57.505 --> 00:04:01.065
Joe Smarro: I don't have any memories prior to seven years old.
00:04:01.145 --> 00:04:03.845
Joe Smarro: I've been in therapy for about 16 years.
00:04:04.345 --> 00:04:08.325
Joe Smarro: But my first big trauma, I guess we'll call it big T trauma,
00:04:08.625 --> 00:04:14.165
Joe Smarro: happened around that seven, eight-year-old mark where we were stationed down in Norfolk, Virginia.
00:04:14.305 --> 00:04:18.325
Joe Smarro: My father was in the Navy and my mother, they were married. I have a sister
00:04:18.325 --> 00:04:19.505
Joe Smarro: who's three years older than me.
00:04:20.025 --> 00:04:25.665
Joe Smarro: And my father was on a deployment. She had an affair with another sailor and
00:04:25.665 --> 00:04:30.585
Joe Smarro: he was consistently coming over to the house. And then he decided to start sexually
00:04:30.585 --> 00:04:33.385
Joe Smarro: abusing, molesting me, and this went on for
00:04:34.266 --> 00:04:38.426
Joe Smarro: And sometime I eventually had like brought it to my mom's attention to which
00:04:38.426 --> 00:04:39.626
Joe Smarro: it wasn't well received.
00:04:39.866 --> 00:04:41.286
Joe Smarro: You know, she said something to
00:04:41.286 --> 00:04:44.346
Joe Smarro: the effect of like, no, we don't say those things. That's not happening.
00:04:45.226 --> 00:04:48.146
Joe Smarro: And, you know, as a, as a child, you don't know how to process something.
00:04:48.146 --> 00:04:50.486
Joe Smarro: So you're like, oh, okay, maybe this is what normal is.
00:04:50.806 --> 00:04:53.706
Joe Smarro: But at some point, and this, this part of the story is important because it
00:04:53.706 --> 00:04:55.486
Joe Smarro: really is what drives the work I do now.
00:04:55.846 --> 00:04:58.026
Joe Smarro: But at some point it was a weekend.
00:04:58.706 --> 00:05:02.586
Joe Smarro: It was during the day. My, my father was still gone. and my mom was taking a
00:05:02.586 --> 00:05:05.226
Joe Smarro: nap on the couch and my sister was in the bathtub.
00:05:05.686 --> 00:05:10.486
Joe Smarro: And my mom used to be a smoker. So I went out into her purse and I grabbed a book of matches.
00:05:10.666 --> 00:05:14.546
Joe Smarro: I went into my bedroom and this is on base housing. And I shut the door and
00:05:14.546 --> 00:05:17.406
Joe Smarro: I laid underneath my bed and I was trying to set my bed on fire.
00:05:17.786 --> 00:05:20.946
Joe Smarro: And I'd light a match and it would go out. I'd light a match, it'd go out.
00:05:21.206 --> 00:05:24.846
Joe Smarro: And I just kept burning matches trying to catch my bed on fire.
00:05:24.966 --> 00:05:29.046
Joe Smarro: And eventually the fabric underneath like burned through and it like caught.
00:05:29.226 --> 00:05:32.146
Joe Smarro: And I rolled out, panicked, banged on the door. to the bathroom,
00:05:32.286 --> 00:05:35.466
Joe Smarro: got my sister out of the tub, woke up my mom, and we ran outside.
00:05:35.626 --> 00:05:40.226
Joe Smarro: Now, luckily, because we were in base housing, the fire department was very
00:05:40.226 --> 00:05:41.926
Joe Smarro: close. They showed up quickly.
00:05:42.146 --> 00:05:44.106
Joe Smarro: My sister, mother, and I are standing outside.
00:05:44.606 --> 00:05:49.546
Joe Smarro: And I'm not realizing the severity of what I had done, but it wasn't catastrophic.
00:05:49.546 --> 00:05:52.326
Joe Smarro: It did not burn the house down, but it definitely burnt my bed.
00:05:52.486 --> 00:05:54.526
Joe Smarro: It charred the floor and then part of the wall.
00:05:55.006 --> 00:05:57.286
Joe Smarro: But this fireman comes out real aggressive.
00:05:57.886 --> 00:06:02.666
Joe Smarro: And he just straight lines towards me and leans down in my face,
00:06:02.786 --> 00:06:05.326
Joe Smarro: like pointing his hands in my face and just says, young man,
00:06:05.526 --> 00:06:08.726
Joe Smarro: if you ever start another fire again, you'll spend the rest of your life in
00:06:08.726 --> 00:06:09.786
Joe Smarro: prison. Do you understand me?
00:06:10.226 --> 00:06:13.706
Joe Smarro: And I was like, whoa. So that's when I started crying and I'm like,
00:06:13.806 --> 00:06:16.166
Joe Smarro: oh my goodness, I'm in trouble. I didn't, I don't want to be in trouble.
00:06:16.326 --> 00:06:17.726
Joe Smarro: Like I didn't mean to do anything bad.
00:06:18.646 --> 00:06:23.946
Joe Smarro: And then I say, pause the story here because again, no ill will towards that fireman.
00:06:24.066 --> 00:06:28.206
Joe Smarro: We trained them all over the country, but I just thought it would be really
00:06:28.206 --> 00:06:33.906
Joe Smarro: cool in hindsight if that fireman had learned our protocols that we teach now with our company
00:06:34.851 --> 00:06:38.771
Joe Smarro: what we call our CCRTC model of de-escalation, but it's curiosity,
00:06:39.031 --> 00:06:40.751
Joe Smarro: connection, rapport, trust, and compliance.
00:06:40.911 --> 00:06:44.011
Joe Smarro: And I'm happy to talk about that later if you want, Kevin. But basically,
00:06:44.211 --> 00:06:46.771
Joe Smarro: it's like, focus on the person, not the problem.
00:06:47.591 --> 00:06:52.011
Joe Smarro: What I tell people is, if someone doesn't listen to your words,
00:06:52.371 --> 00:06:54.691
Joe Smarro: their behaviors will always reveal the truth.
00:06:55.191 --> 00:07:00.171
Joe Smarro: And now this is on a very deep subconscious level because I told my mom something that was happening.
00:07:00.311 --> 00:07:03.851
Joe Smarro: And because it wasn't received, now, I escalated with, again,
00:07:03.991 --> 00:07:07.411
Joe Smarro: it wasn't like a straight line thought for me, but on some level,
00:07:07.551 --> 00:07:09.571
Joe Smarro: it was like, yeah, I don't like what's happening in my bed.
00:07:09.671 --> 00:07:11.931
Joe Smarro: And so I'm going to burn my bed down. That's not normal behavior.
00:07:12.631 --> 00:07:17.131
Joe Smarro: And if that fireman would have just stayed curious and pulled me to the side
00:07:17.131 --> 00:07:19.111
Joe Smarro: and said, Hey buddy, what's going on?
00:07:19.411 --> 00:07:22.411
Joe Smarro: Like, why did you start the fire in that bedroom?
00:07:22.731 --> 00:07:26.331
Joe Smarro: Is there something you're trying to communicate with us? Because what we know
00:07:26.331 --> 00:07:28.871
Joe Smarro: is that all human behavior is communication.
00:07:29.771 --> 00:07:32.611
Joe Smarro: And instead of him offering me help or hope, he threatened me.
00:07:32.971 --> 00:07:37.631
Joe Smarro: And so the abuse continued. At some point, my sister knows what's going on.
00:07:37.751 --> 00:07:41.111
Joe Smarro: She calls our grandmother up in New York. This is like 1989.
00:07:41.411 --> 00:07:45.991
Joe Smarro: She calls our father somehow on a naval ship, tells him what's happening,
00:07:46.271 --> 00:07:48.491
Joe Smarro: says, your daughter just called me, told me this stuff.
00:07:48.691 --> 00:07:52.151
Joe Smarro: So he tells the Navy. The Navy gives him emergency leave to come home.
00:07:52.691 --> 00:07:57.591
Joe Smarro: And chaos ensues. My dad ends up getting pushed out of the Navy.
00:07:58.051 --> 00:08:02.191
Joe Smarro: My parents are getting divorced. We moved up to New York. I didn't go to third grade.
00:08:02.371 --> 00:08:06.231
Joe Smarro: I was held back my third grade year because I wasn't in school a lot.
00:08:06.551 --> 00:08:10.131
Joe Smarro: I was in and out of court. I was in and out of therapy three days a week.
00:08:10.451 --> 00:08:14.091
Joe Smarro: And so I just missed most of a year of school. So they held me back.
00:08:14.271 --> 00:08:20.891
Joe Smarro: And then my dad got custody of my sister and I, and he worked hard.
00:08:21.051 --> 00:08:24.351
Joe Smarro: We never really saw him, but our relationship took a terrible turn.
00:08:24.351 --> 00:08:31.551
Joe Smarro: He became an alcoholic, became very abusive, quite violent, hit me routinely, just horrible abuse.
00:08:31.691 --> 00:08:35.091
Joe Smarro: And I remember at 15 years old, I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
00:08:35.311 --> 00:08:39.031
Joe Smarro: His girlfriend, whoever it was at the time, because he had three more relationships
00:08:39.031 --> 00:08:42.631
Joe Smarro: after my mother, every one of them cheated on him openly.
00:08:43.151 --> 00:08:46.151
Joe Smarro: Every one of them after my mom was physically abusive.
00:08:46.931 --> 00:08:49.671
Joe Smarro: And I just remember getting to this point where I was like, yeah,
00:08:49.751 --> 00:08:50.851
Joe Smarro: I don't want to do this anymore.
00:08:50.851 --> 00:08:54.371
Joe Smarro: Like I, that's when my, I had my first suicidal thought was that 15 years old
00:08:54.371 --> 00:08:55.351
Joe Smarro: where it crept in of like,
00:08:55.411 --> 00:08:59.551
Joe Smarro: yeah, I just don't think life is worth living when there's this much like chaos
00:08:59.551 --> 00:09:04.931
Joe Smarro: and lack of safety and fear and nothing about this feels good or fun.
00:09:05.091 --> 00:09:06.811
Joe Smarro: I mean, I was going to school every day.
00:09:07.071 --> 00:09:08.871
Joe Smarro: My nickname was Smiley. I got
00:09:08.871 --> 00:09:13.531
Joe Smarro: really good at putting on a mask and hiding behind my fear and my wounds.
00:09:14.431 --> 00:09:19.611
Joe Smarro: And if it wasn't for athletics, you know, I probably would have never finished high school, but yeah.
00:09:20.052 --> 00:09:23.972
Joe Smarro: What happened to wrap this up now is I start leaving the house,
00:09:24.172 --> 00:09:25.172
Joe Smarro: staying with friends more.
00:09:25.472 --> 00:09:27.992
Joe Smarro: I had the same girlfriend, ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade.
00:09:28.112 --> 00:09:29.312
Joe Smarro: And finally, her parents took
00:09:29.312 --> 00:09:33.032
Joe Smarro: me in and were like, hey, you can start staying here for a little bit.
00:09:33.592 --> 00:09:37.272
Joe Smarro: And this is a joke, Kevin. All right. This is a joke for all the listeners.
00:09:37.932 --> 00:09:41.952
Joe Smarro: But my joke is just because you can't see my face or my expressions.
00:09:42.332 --> 00:09:46.372
Joe Smarro: But my joke is, you know, as a junior in high school with a girlfriend of three
00:09:46.372 --> 00:09:49.132
Joe Smarro: years, and I don't have a job at this point, I'm not really working.
00:09:49.132 --> 00:09:52.852
Joe Smarro: And so because her parents took me and I didn't know how to thank them.
00:09:53.072 --> 00:09:58.072
Joe Smarro: And then it hit me and I was like, oh, I know I'll get their daughter pregnant. It was a gift for them.
00:10:01.172 --> 00:10:04.352
Joe Smarro: The second punchline to that is in hindsight, they probably would have preferred
00:10:04.352 --> 00:10:11.732
Joe Smarro: a fruit basket, but my daughter is now healthy and she is 25 years old and doing
00:10:11.732 --> 00:10:13.032
Joe Smarro: well living in Dallas, Texas.
00:10:13.472 --> 00:10:17.892
Joe Smarro: But that decision obviously was very hard because I became a father my senior year of high school.
00:10:18.392 --> 00:10:22.532
Joe Smarro: And that changed everything for me. And it was the greatest blessing in disguise
00:10:22.532 --> 00:10:25.172
Joe Smarro: because I had zero desire to join the military.
00:10:25.592 --> 00:10:29.312
Joe Smarro: But because now I'm a father as a child, you have limited options.
00:10:29.672 --> 00:10:33.312
Joe Smarro: And the Marine Corps recruiter came in, did a great job selling me the dream,
00:10:33.752 --> 00:10:36.732
Joe Smarro: told me I wouldn't have to worry about finances, healthcare,
00:10:37.052 --> 00:10:39.812
Joe Smarro: my daughter would be taken care of. And that was in 2000.
00:10:40.172 --> 00:10:44.212
Joe Smarro: And so I joined the Marine Corps and then 9-11 happened and that completely
00:10:44.212 --> 00:10:46.912
Joe Smarro: changed my world for the second time.
00:10:47.252 --> 00:10:51.952
Joe Smarro: And I had two combat deployments. I was with the first Marines as we pushed
00:10:51.952 --> 00:10:54.172
Joe Smarro: up into Iraq, March 19th of 2003.
00:10:54.852 --> 00:10:59.152
Joe Smarro: And it was a lot of trauma in that deployment for me.
00:10:59.272 --> 00:11:02.732
Joe Smarro: And then I got out of the Marine Corps, moved to South Texas,
00:11:02.912 --> 00:11:05.692
Joe Smarro: where I currently reside now and joined the San Antonio Police Department.
00:11:05.892 --> 00:11:11.052
Joe Smarro: That was more trauma, spent 15 years with them, eventually got on the mental health unit.
00:11:11.252 --> 00:11:14.052
Joe Smarro: That changed and saved my life. And then at 15 years, I was like,
00:11:14.152 --> 00:11:15.192
Joe Smarro: yeah, I can't do this no more.
00:11:15.352 --> 00:11:18.652
Joe Smarro: It's not good for me. I'm frustrated all the time. I love the job.
00:11:18.832 --> 00:11:20.552
Joe Smarro: I don't love a lot about the job.
00:11:20.992 --> 00:11:26.092
Joe Smarro: And so I decided to resign in 2020 and focus full-time on the business I created,
00:11:26.132 --> 00:11:30.272
Joe Smarro: which is what I'm doing now full-time as the CEO of Solution Point Plus.
00:11:31.372 --> 00:11:37.692
Kevin Lowe: Wow, what a heck of a journey. Rewinding a bit back in the story as a kid,
00:11:38.412 --> 00:11:44.452
Kevin Lowe: before you would go to live with your dad, And besides for the incident of lighting
00:11:44.452 --> 00:11:47.472
Kevin Lowe: the bed on fire, did you have anything else?
00:11:47.612 --> 00:11:52.172
Kevin Lowe: Like I think of kids maybe running away or anything like that.
00:11:52.272 --> 00:11:53.672
Kevin Lowe: Did you ever do anything else?
00:11:53.912 --> 00:12:00.132
Joe Smarro: Oh, I was a menace. So part of my mask at school just to survive it was to be funny.
00:12:00.312 --> 00:12:03.492
Joe Smarro: So, you know, I'm quite witty still to this day.
00:12:04.452 --> 00:12:07.752
Joe Smarro: Like comedy and humor come very natural for me.
00:12:08.092 --> 00:12:11.992
Joe Smarro: But it was a protective mechanism for me, right? I'd rather people see me as
00:12:11.992 --> 00:12:13.432
Joe Smarro: funny than depressed or sad.
00:12:13.939 --> 00:12:18.939
Joe Smarro: And outside of school, I became a bit of a thief.
00:12:19.259 --> 00:12:22.799
Joe Smarro: It's funny, I have no business being in the military or a police officer,
00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:27.639
Joe Smarro: but I promise both of my careers were quite honorable, which is kind of a testament
00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:33.239
Joe Smarro: to how effective is the psychological evaluation that they actually give to get in, right?
00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:40.779
Joe Smarro: But I would go to like, we had a penny candy store, a comic book store,
00:12:40.959 --> 00:12:42.399
Joe Smarro: and we'd have these It's like, you know,
00:12:42.739 --> 00:12:46.079
Joe Smarro: and it wasn't anything significant, but it was definitely like,
00:12:46.239 --> 00:12:50.959
Joe Smarro: it was just, again, it was just enough negative behavior that if I had gotten
00:12:50.959 --> 00:12:55.659
Joe Smarro: caught and arrested as a child, like how would that have changed my life completely, right?
00:12:55.739 --> 00:12:59.519
Joe Smarro: And so for me as a police officer, I was always sensitive to dealing with the
00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:01.979
Joe Smarro: adolescents and the choices they were making because one, it was,
00:13:02.139 --> 00:13:06.059
Joe Smarro: and this is what drives my focus on the person, not the problem thing is anytime
00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:08.919
Joe Smarro: I would catch a child doing something, what we'll call stupid.
00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:13.299
Joe Smarro: They know is against the law, but I would catch them. I'm very aware that the
00:13:13.299 --> 00:13:16.699
Joe Smarro: only reason I was in the position I'm in is because I got lucky enough to not get caught.
00:13:17.019 --> 00:13:22.339
Joe Smarro: And so instead of me like shaming them or, you know, threatening them or talking
00:13:22.339 --> 00:13:26.439
Joe Smarro: down to them, it was always just like, Hey, look, we're not going to like debate
00:13:26.439 --> 00:13:28.699
Joe Smarro: the fact that we know what you're doing is wrong.
00:13:28.819 --> 00:13:32.279
Joe Smarro: You know, it's wrong, but like, help me better understand what's causing you
00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:36.239
Joe Smarro: to get to this place where you're wanting to sabotage yourself because ultimately
00:13:36.239 --> 00:13:38.299
Joe Smarro: that's what it is. And they don't realize that at the point. Right.
00:13:38.479 --> 00:13:43.239
Joe Smarro: So stealing things, I had a little graffiti stint where I would just like spray paint stuff.
00:13:43.539 --> 00:13:47.779
Joe Smarro: I remember, you know, this is an upstate New York and smaller community,
00:13:47.779 --> 00:13:52.239
Joe Smarro: but we would just go around like some of my buddies or my half brother at the
00:13:52.239 --> 00:13:53.759
Joe Smarro: time or stepbrother, I guess.
00:13:54.239 --> 00:13:58.959
Joe Smarro: And we would just like check garages. Like they had a side door, right?
00:13:59.059 --> 00:14:02.859
Joe Smarro: It's not like, I don't know where you live, but here in Texas, it's like you have the
00:14:06.450 --> 00:14:09.730
Joe Smarro: A lot of the garages in New York were detached garages.
00:14:09.910 --> 00:14:13.950
Joe Smarro: And so they had like the actual garage door, but then it had like a regular
00:14:13.950 --> 00:14:16.650
Joe Smarro: door on the side of it. And we would just check them.
00:14:16.790 --> 00:14:20.310
Joe Smarro: And many of them were open. So we would just go like pillage through and just
00:14:20.310 --> 00:14:21.470
Joe Smarro: like, look at people's stuff.
00:14:22.050 --> 00:14:26.290
Joe Smarro: And I mean, just absolute ridiculous behavior, but I'm not exaggerating.
00:14:26.410 --> 00:14:32.150
Joe Smarro: Like I was very unsupervised as a teenager, really no parental oversight or
00:14:32.150 --> 00:14:35.750
Joe Smarro: attention, unless it was some type of violence or abuse.
00:14:36.450 --> 00:14:41.330
Joe Smarro: And then my stepmom, whoever it was at the time, would just complain to my father
00:14:41.330 --> 00:14:44.070
Joe Smarro: nearly daily, but several times a week about like, oh,
00:14:44.630 --> 00:14:48.290
Joe Smarro: Joey, as I was called growing up, like, oh, Joey was mumbling under his breath
00:14:48.290 --> 00:14:52.590
Joe Smarro: again, or Joey was talking back to me, or Joey walked out of the house when he wasn't supposed to.
00:14:52.970 --> 00:14:57.170
Joe Smarro: And then my dad would just come in and put hands on me, yell at me,
00:14:57.530 --> 00:15:01.590
Joe Smarro: treat me terribly, and then go crack a beer and go to bed.
00:15:02.290 --> 00:15:05.370
Joe Smarro: And I was like, yeah, this is a quite terrible life.
00:15:05.650 --> 00:15:09.990
Joe Smarro: One more I'll share just because it came up just to show how not well I was.
00:15:10.130 --> 00:15:12.870
Joe Smarro: I remember, so we lived right on the Hudson River.
00:15:14.030 --> 00:15:20.910
Joe Smarro: And it was right at the fork of where the Hudson River and I believe it's Ticonderoga maybe,
00:15:21.170 --> 00:15:25.230
Joe Smarro: but these two rivers come together and one of them had rapids and it was,
00:15:25.330 --> 00:15:29.070
Joe Smarro: I don't know, class two or three rapids. And there was people that would go down them.
00:15:30.070 --> 00:15:33.550
Joe Smarro: And so I was used to just seeing people come by the house, and then also we
00:15:33.550 --> 00:15:38.190
Joe Smarro: had a bow bridge a mile up from our house, but you could see it from in front of our home.
00:15:38.270 --> 00:15:42.950
Joe Smarro: And so people would frequently stop and look up the river to look at this bridge,
00:15:43.010 --> 00:15:46.930
Joe Smarro: because it was one of the last bow bridges in New York, I think, or I don't know.
00:15:47.670 --> 00:15:51.150
Joe Smarro: So it was a popular spot. But anyway, people would drive by on their bikes.
00:15:51.330 --> 00:15:54.630
Joe Smarro: And I remember one time, I have no clue what the hell I was thinking, Kevin.
00:15:55.701 --> 00:16:01.201
Joe Smarro: In my mind being funny, I was up in the second story of my house with the window
00:16:01.201 --> 00:16:04.001
Joe Smarro: open and there were people just like riding by on bicycles.
00:16:04.501 --> 00:16:12.401
Joe Smarro: And I decided to take a bow and arrow and shoot an arrow out my window towards
00:16:12.401 --> 00:16:14.421
Joe Smarro: people driving by on their bikes.
00:16:14.941 --> 00:16:21.461
Joe Smarro: And one of them was so close that I actually had like a holy crap panic moment
00:16:21.461 --> 00:16:24.221
Joe Smarro: where, cause I think I'm being funny in the moment, right?
00:16:24.361 --> 00:16:28.181
Joe Smarro: Obviously, I have a very underdeveloped prefrontal cortex. I have a lot of trauma.
00:16:28.381 --> 00:16:33.821
Joe Smarro: I have all kinds of chaos. And I'm just thinking this is funny until I remember shooting one arrow.
00:16:34.061 --> 00:16:38.321
Joe Smarro: It went right by this person's head, went right by their face.
00:16:38.461 --> 00:16:41.221
Joe Smarro: And they're wearing a helmet, but still, I don't think that would have stopped it.
00:16:41.401 --> 00:16:43.641
Joe Smarro: It went right by their face as they're riding a bike.
00:16:43.881 --> 00:16:47.421
Joe Smarro: And I remember like, oh my God, if that would have just hit that person,
00:16:47.841 --> 00:16:48.841
Joe Smarro: oh, my life would be done.
00:16:49.101 --> 00:16:53.001
Joe Smarro: What the hell am I doing? And that was one of those moments where that,
00:16:53.161 --> 00:16:57.641
Joe Smarro: and I know I said one, but just one more is there was this big rock wall a mile
00:16:57.641 --> 00:17:02.761
Joe Smarro: up from the house and we would go up there and cars would drive by on route
00:17:02.761 --> 00:17:07.581
Joe Smarro: nine and we would just like throw little rocks off and see if we could land
00:17:07.581 --> 00:17:08.981
Joe Smarro: it in the back of people's trucks.
00:17:09.281 --> 00:17:12.441
Joe Smarro: And one time we threw one and it landed right on the person's windshield.
00:17:12.561 --> 00:17:16.281
Joe Smarro: And it wasn't like a boulder, but it also definitely cracked the windshield.
00:17:16.861 --> 00:17:20.981
Joe Smarro: And this one car came to a screeching halt. this guy got out,
00:17:21.101 --> 00:17:25.161
Joe Smarro: started screaming cuss words, and started climbing up this wall, and I was like, oh my god.
00:17:25.301 --> 00:17:29.461
Joe Smarro: And I just ran deep into the woods to the point where I actually got lost.
00:17:30.225 --> 00:17:35.645
Joe Smarro: That was pretty routine for me. At school, I was the funny kid that was naturally
00:17:35.645 --> 00:17:39.825
Joe Smarro: kind of gifted athletic, not size-wise, but just I had natural athletic talent.
00:17:39.825 --> 00:17:43.505
Joe Smarro: So I was pretty good at whatever sports I played, which was tennis,
00:17:43.645 --> 00:17:47.425
Joe Smarro: soccer, and basketball, but I mainly focused on soccer. And so like at school,
00:17:47.585 --> 00:17:49.265
Joe Smarro: you would see me as one version of myself.
00:17:49.405 --> 00:17:53.545
Joe Smarro: But what I realized is I got really good at like morphing into my environment
00:17:53.545 --> 00:17:55.325
Joe Smarro: to just fit in to try to feel safe.
00:17:56.085 --> 00:17:59.385
Joe Smarro: And I'm not proud of those things. I'm not encouraging them at all,
00:17:59.405 --> 00:18:05.665
Joe Smarro: but I can definitely understand how they happened because of just,
00:18:05.885 --> 00:18:07.945
Joe Smarro: again, no real oversight of my life.
00:18:08.085 --> 00:18:09.945
Joe Smarro: Like I would go to school, come home, and then it was just like,
00:18:10.185 --> 00:18:12.865
Joe Smarro: yeah, I knew I had from about 3 to 9 p.m.
00:18:13.085 --> 00:18:16.005
Joe Smarro: Or 8 p.m. maybe to just kind of screw around.
00:18:16.145 --> 00:18:21.085
Joe Smarro: And it didn't serve me well. But again, thank God I never got caught doing any
00:18:21.085 --> 00:18:23.605
Joe Smarro: of the stupid things I did that would have got me jammed up.
00:18:24.105 --> 00:18:30.545
Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely. Wow. So I guess my next question is, as I listen to you talk
00:18:30.545 --> 00:18:34.185
Kevin Lowe: about this wild childhood, teenage period,
00:18:34.845 --> 00:18:42.585
Kevin Lowe: what possesses you with that amount of just unlimited freedom to join the military
00:18:42.585 --> 00:18:45.265
Kevin Lowe: where I think like complete opposite? it.
00:18:45.665 --> 00:18:50.445
Joe Smarro: Yeah. That's why I tell people I grew up super fast in the Marine Corps because you're right.
00:18:50.645 --> 00:18:51.765
Joe Smarro: Like that was the first time in my
00:18:51.765 --> 00:18:56.185
Joe Smarro: life where I had like real structured discipline, but another fun story.
00:18:56.405 --> 00:18:59.365
Joe Smarro: Uh, and if you know anything about the military or any in your audience,
00:18:59.505 --> 00:19:03.465
Joe Smarro: listen, we can all just agree that when it comes to basic training,
00:19:03.625 --> 00:19:06.645
Joe Smarro: the Marine Corps has it the hardest. It's not, it's a non-negotiable.
00:19:07.205 --> 00:19:10.165
Joe Smarro: And so I'm in the Marine Corps, right. And they're very strict.
00:19:10.385 --> 00:19:12.505
Joe Smarro: So we're in our squad bay. It's nighttime.
00:19:13.185 --> 00:19:18.085
Joe Smarro: And we used to have to, I don't remember how frequently because bootcamp was three months long,
00:19:18.245 --> 00:19:23.185
Joe Smarro: but maybe once every few weeks, we would have to go shower and then we would
00:19:23.185 --> 00:19:27.865
Joe Smarro: stand online naked and a nurse would come by with our drill instructors and
00:19:27.865 --> 00:19:30.645
Joe Smarro: they would just like scan our bodies to make sure we're not all bruised and
00:19:30.645 --> 00:19:32.625
Joe Smarro: beat up and hiding injuries and all that stuff.
00:19:33.285 --> 00:19:37.865
Joe Smarro: And so they come by our line and now there's two lines, right?
00:19:37.985 --> 00:19:41.325
Joe Smarro: Cause there's bunks on like both sides of the squad bay with like a big row
00:19:41.325 --> 00:19:42.365
Joe Smarro: or aisle down the middle.
00:19:43.105 --> 00:19:48.445
Joe Smarro: And we're online at attention facing forward and they come, the two drill instructors
00:19:48.445 --> 00:19:51.825
Joe Smarro: and the nurse come by, they do their scans and then they go to the other side.
00:19:52.105 --> 00:19:55.485
Joe Smarro: And right when they get to the other side, they're right across from me.
00:19:55.625 --> 00:19:59.665
Joe Smarro: Now, obviously both drill instructors and the nurse are facing away from me.
00:19:59.785 --> 00:20:03.745
Joe Smarro: Their back is towards me. And I decide in this moment, I'm gonna be funny.
00:20:03.925 --> 00:20:07.685
Joe Smarro: So I take my cover, as they call it, which is my hat, right,
00:20:07.805 --> 00:20:08.985
Joe Smarro: that we wear for a uniform.
00:20:09.225 --> 00:20:15.225
Joe Smarro: I take my cover and I put it on backwards and I kind of start just doing a little dance.
00:20:15.345 --> 00:20:19.285
Joe Smarro: And what I'm trying to do is to get the people across from me that are looking
00:20:19.285 --> 00:20:23.145
Joe Smarro: in my direction to laugh so that the drill instructors would smoke them.
00:20:23.245 --> 00:20:28.325
Joe Smarro: But what happened instead was I didn't understand at 18 years old light reflection.
00:20:29.028 --> 00:20:34.028
Joe Smarro: And the drill instructors are able to watch me through the reflection in the
00:20:34.028 --> 00:20:36.328
Joe Smarro: window, the direction they're facing.
00:20:36.468 --> 00:20:40.008
Joe Smarro: They're seeing this happen. I have no idea. I think I'm being slick.
00:20:40.408 --> 00:20:45.128
Joe Smarro: And I'll never forget it, man. I got my cover on backwards. I'm just doing a
00:20:45.128 --> 00:20:46.428
Joe Smarro: little quiet dance like an idiot.
00:20:46.948 --> 00:20:52.328
Joe Smarro: And this drill instructor just kind of like takes a half step back and so fast.
00:20:52.428 --> 00:20:55.468
Joe Smarro: He just whips around and comes straight at me.
00:20:55.468 --> 00:20:58.548
Joe Smarro: And I'm like hand up on my hat on
00:20:58.548 --> 00:21:02.008
Joe Smarro: my cover about to take it off it's backwards and
00:21:02.008 --> 00:21:04.888
Joe Smarro: he's coming for and I don't have time to get it off and I'm done and
00:21:04.888 --> 00:21:09.508
Joe Smarro: he just starts like slamming his the covers they wear is called a smoky it's
00:21:09.508 --> 00:21:13.908
Joe Smarro: got that big like brim on it and he's just like slamming his smoky into my head
00:21:13.908 --> 00:21:18.688
Joe Smarro: screaming at me and I'm like oh my god my life is over but that's when I realized
00:21:18.688 --> 00:21:23.788
Joe Smarro: there's a time and place for comedy apparently and I need to get better at channeling that because
00:21:24.288 --> 00:21:26.888
Joe Smarro: and I don't know that I ever did, honestly, because this kind of followed suit
00:21:26.888 --> 00:21:28.468
Joe Smarro: into the police academy as well.
00:21:29.148 --> 00:21:32.268
Joe Smarro: And I've always just been someone that's like, let's push the envelope and see
00:21:32.268 --> 00:21:33.248
Joe Smarro: how far we can go with this.
00:21:33.688 --> 00:21:37.108
Joe Smarro: But truth be told, you're absolutely right. And that was a great point that
00:21:37.108 --> 00:21:40.988
Joe Smarro: you made there, Kevin, is because it was such an opposite for me. And that was pre 9-11.
00:21:41.368 --> 00:21:45.048
Joe Smarro: So even just the structure of it, having to wake up at a certain time,
00:21:45.168 --> 00:21:48.128
Joe Smarro: having to go to bed at a certain time, having to clean our room a certain way
00:21:48.128 --> 00:21:49.848
Joe Smarro: that would pass a white glove inspection.
00:21:49.848 --> 00:21:53.768
Joe Smarro: There were so many lessons that, yes, they were hard, and yes,
00:21:53.868 --> 00:21:58.688
Joe Smarro: they challenged me, but they really did prepare me for the real world in a very,
00:21:58.828 --> 00:22:02.548
Joe Smarro: very fast way, which sadly didn't happen throughout my childhood years.
00:22:02.888 --> 00:22:09.288
Kevin Lowe: Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Now, I'm curious, the fact that here you were just joined
00:22:09.288 --> 00:22:12.828
Kevin Lowe: the military, and then like you said, then 9-11 happened.
00:22:13.268 --> 00:22:18.808
Kevin Lowe: What was that experience in terms of, I mean, before 9-11, And had you even
00:22:18.808 --> 00:22:20.068
Kevin Lowe: deployed like overseas?
00:22:21.268 --> 00:22:25.128
Joe Smarro: No, because I was in an infantry unit out in California. So with the Marines,
00:22:25.328 --> 00:22:28.148
Joe Smarro: if depending on what unit you're with, if you're deployable or not,
00:22:28.368 --> 00:22:30.128
Joe Smarro: I was with a deployable unit.
00:22:30.348 --> 00:22:35.208
Joe Smarro: And so over a four year contract, you're typically going to do two six month
00:22:35.208 --> 00:22:36.508
Joe Smarro: deployments just for training.
00:22:36.928 --> 00:22:42.308
Joe Smarro: So we had one scheduled for January of 2022.
00:22:43.128 --> 00:22:47.128
Joe Smarro: So we were going to go on a routine float. they call it, a six-month float,
00:22:47.148 --> 00:22:51.208
Joe Smarro: where for us, like you leave San Diego, you go to Hawaii, you go to Guam,
00:22:51.388 --> 00:22:55.188
Joe Smarro: you go to Singapore, Thailand, and then maybe Africa, and then you come back,
00:22:55.348 --> 00:22:56.568
Joe Smarro: right? And it's just training.
00:22:56.688 --> 00:22:59.328
Joe Smarro: It's really just to keep a presence throughout the water.
00:23:00.608 --> 00:23:03.948
Joe Smarro: But then 9-11 happens in September, and by...
00:23:04.983 --> 00:23:08.623
Joe Smarro: October, we were already leaving. So it was, it got pushed up a couple months,
00:23:08.663 --> 00:23:13.383
Joe Smarro: but the big difference was all the things we heard about how great the Westpac
00:23:13.383 --> 00:23:15.963
Joe Smarro: floats are. So the Western Pacific, right? It's called Westpac.
00:23:16.183 --> 00:23:19.683
Joe Smarro: So we heard all these great stories from other Marines about how fun these Westpac
00:23:19.683 --> 00:23:22.943
Joe Smarro: floats are, like how fun it is to go to these other countries and get what they
00:23:22.943 --> 00:23:27.323
Joe Smarro: call Liberty, which is just like time in country where you get to go and like play and explore.
00:23:28.023 --> 00:23:33.343
Joe Smarro: And so I was excited about the idea of doing a routine Westpac float.
00:23:33.463 --> 00:23:37.523
Joe Smarro: But then when 9-11 happened, suddenly it's like, oh, everything just changed.
00:23:37.683 --> 00:23:40.823
Joe Smarro: This is no longer going to be fun. This is all business now.
00:23:41.223 --> 00:23:46.183
Joe Smarro: And yeah, it was quite the psychological shift for sure, where it was the most
00:23:46.183 --> 00:23:51.483
Joe Smarro: difficult, challenging time of my life, regardless of all the trauma stuff I had been through.
00:23:52.083 --> 00:23:58.243
Joe Smarro: Being in war is something that I truly believe no words, no journalism,
00:23:58.763 --> 00:24:02.043
Joe Smarro: like the brilliant journalists that are out there, the brilliant writers that
00:24:02.043 --> 00:24:05.983
Joe Smarro: are out there, the people that have written incredible stories, movies,
00:24:06.603 --> 00:24:12.323
Joe Smarro: Novels, whatever it is, it'll never truly capture the essence of being in it.
00:24:12.443 --> 00:24:14.263
Joe Smarro: And it's no fault of anyone else's.
00:24:14.543 --> 00:24:20.583
Joe Smarro: I just believe that so completely to be true, that if you are not in country,
00:24:20.803 --> 00:24:24.843
Joe Smarro: if you are not having to live in that level of stress and fear,
00:24:25.023 --> 00:24:29.283
Joe Smarro: being surrounded by chaos and explosions and death and hearing the whistle a
00:24:29.283 --> 00:24:33.303
Joe Smarro: bullet makes when it goes by your head and just seeing dead children and women
00:24:33.303 --> 00:24:36.963
Joe Smarro: and exploded vehicles and buildings and just pure chaos.
00:24:37.203 --> 00:24:43.023
Joe Smarro: And then even Americans killed and shot and dismembered and burnt and to experience
00:24:43.023 --> 00:24:46.783
Joe Smarro: suicide where people in our own unit were killing themselves.
00:24:46.983 --> 00:24:54.003
Joe Smarro: Just the amount of consistent saturation of chaos is life-changing and life-altering
00:24:54.003 --> 00:24:59.903
Joe Smarro: And to the ones that have truly been there and survived it, not just physically, but psychologically,
00:25:00.603 --> 00:25:04.003
Joe Smarro: Like hats off to them, because I don't know how that's,
00:25:04.560 --> 00:25:09.120
Joe Smarro: humanly possible to do, to see that level of, because what I tell people,
00:25:09.220 --> 00:25:13.060
Joe Smarro: Kevin, is I was trained, like the Marine Corps does a great job of training us.
00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:18.120
Joe Smarro: So I knew how to shoot and move, fight, clear buildings, what they call mount
00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:20.240
Joe Smarro: training, military operation of urban terrain.
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:25.160
Joe Smarro: Like I, they prepared us for what we were going to deal with mostly,
00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:28.600
Joe Smarro: but then there's certain things that you can just not prepare for, right?
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:32.320
Joe Smarro: You can't prepare for the breakdown in communication. You can't prepare for
00:25:32.320 --> 00:25:34.820
Joe Smarro: the fact that like no one actually knows what the hell they're doing.
00:25:35.140 --> 00:25:39.060
Joe Smarro: And everything that was done in a routine exercise where we knew it was safe,
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:42.980
Joe Smarro: even with stress inoculation, when you get over there, there's always going
00:25:42.980 --> 00:25:44.840
Joe Smarro: to be an outlier that we didn't prepare for.
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:47.760
Joe Smarro: And so you're constantly having to be creative, to think on your feet,
00:25:48.140 --> 00:25:50.640
Joe Smarro: to be adaptive, to be malleable to your environment.
00:25:51.040 --> 00:25:54.340
Joe Smarro: And communication is the most important aspect.
00:25:54.700 --> 00:26:00.260
Joe Smarro: And my first day into crossing into Iraq, it was March 20th of 2003,
00:26:00.280 --> 00:26:03.780
Joe Smarro: because March March 19th is when the war started, but it was late at night and
00:26:03.780 --> 00:26:06.360
Joe Smarro: we were doing like a few hours of driving up Highway 1.
00:26:06.520 --> 00:26:11.420
Joe Smarro: But that first day of war, that became very apparent to me that there were a
00:26:11.420 --> 00:26:16.540
Joe Smarro: massive breakdown of communication just amongst our own Marines as we were doing the invasion.
00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:21.000
Joe Smarro: And there were some friendly fire incidents. They're just absolute mayhem.
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:27.200
Joe Smarro: And to deal with that for, you know, nine and a half months consistently was incredibly difficult.
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:32.180
Kevin Lowe: Wow. Now, you said you ended up remaining in the Marines for a total of four years?
00:26:33.008 --> 00:26:33.368
Joe Smarro: Yes.
00:26:33.728 --> 00:26:39.528
Kevin Lowe: Now, when you first signed up, how long were you committed to? Just four years.
00:26:39.928 --> 00:26:41.428
Joe Smarro: Yeah. Four years. It was a four-year contract. Yep.
00:26:41.828 --> 00:26:46.528
Kevin Lowe: Okay. Okay. Was there any part of you at the end that ever thought about continuing
00:26:46.528 --> 00:26:49.308
Kevin Lowe: on or were you glad to get out?
00:26:49.528 --> 00:26:57.088
Joe Smarro: I was very glad. And so sad story here, Kevin, is when you're over there, they throw money at you.
00:26:57.288 --> 00:27:02.828
Joe Smarro: And a lot of us are young, 18 to 22 years old, maybe 19 to 25 years old.
00:27:02.828 --> 00:27:05.988
Joe Smarro: Is the probably median for most that are over there.
00:27:06.428 --> 00:27:10.308
Joe Smarro: And they were throwing tax-free re-enlistment bonuses.
00:27:10.948 --> 00:27:16.208
Joe Smarro: And if my memory serves me correctly, I want to say it was like $35,000 tax-free.
00:27:16.548 --> 00:27:19.748
Joe Smarro: Now, as a 19-year-old kid, 20-year-old kid, you're like, oh my God,
00:27:19.868 --> 00:27:23.068
Joe Smarro: that's a million dollars in your mind.
00:27:23.648 --> 00:27:27.588
Joe Smarro: And to know that you don't have to pay any taxes on that, I can just put that
00:27:27.588 --> 00:27:29.608
Joe Smarro: in my bank account and it's just there when I get back.
00:27:29.768 --> 00:27:31.928
Joe Smarro: You're already starting to buy the vehicle in your head.
00:27:32.408 --> 00:27:35.628
Joe Smarro: This is awesome. But I remember, so my first deployment, I didn't bring this
00:27:35.628 --> 00:27:37.508
Joe Smarro: up, but my first deployment was to Afghanistan.
00:27:37.788 --> 00:27:42.168
Joe Smarro: And that was right after 9-11 because of, again, what President Bush was saying
00:27:42.168 --> 00:27:44.348
Joe Smarro: and weapons of mass destruction and all this stuff.
00:27:44.528 --> 00:27:49.368
Joe Smarro: So my first deployment was to Afghanistan and it was a pretty inactive deployment.
00:27:49.628 --> 00:27:53.228
Joe Smarro: Nothing really happened. We would do some helicopter operations,
00:27:53.468 --> 00:27:56.008
Joe Smarro: fly into Afghanistan, take over an airfield.
00:27:56.128 --> 00:28:00.768
Joe Smarro: But when I say take over, It was really just like land, do a perimeter, do security.
00:28:01.288 --> 00:28:04.428
Joe Smarro: Most of every time they would just leave, they would just give it up.
00:28:04.568 --> 00:28:05.388
Joe Smarro: They didn't fight for it.
00:28:05.568 --> 00:28:08.708
Joe Smarro: So I really didn't see any quote unquote action in Afghanistan.
00:28:08.788 --> 00:28:12.268
Joe Smarro: So I was like, oh, this, you know, war's not so bad. This was pretty easy.
00:28:12.908 --> 00:28:16.508
Joe Smarro: And then we came back home and did about a four month workup.
00:28:16.568 --> 00:28:20.108
Joe Smarro: And then it's like, okay, now we're going to go into Iraq. And we were kind of like, eh, I doubt it.
00:28:20.308 --> 00:28:24.828
Joe Smarro: Like, I don't think that's true. But I'll tell you, as far as psychological
00:28:24.828 --> 00:28:31.268
Joe Smarro: warfare on us, we got to Kuwait in January of 2003.
00:28:31.668 --> 00:28:37.568
Joe Smarro: Between January of 2003 and March 19th, when we actually crossed into Iraq,
00:28:37.628 --> 00:28:44.128
Joe Smarro: we were probably told, I don't know, six to 10 times in those couple months,
00:28:44.448 --> 00:28:48.188
Joe Smarro: hey, everyone, pack up your stuff. We're not going to go in after all.
00:28:48.408 --> 00:28:50.868
Joe Smarro: We're going to fly out tomorrow. We're heading home. We're like,
00:28:51.028 --> 00:28:54.288
Joe Smarro: oh, the first time I was like, awesome. So we packed up, we get our stuff,
00:28:54.428 --> 00:28:55.028
Joe Smarro: we're heading home. Cool.
00:28:55.948 --> 00:29:00.008
Joe Smarro: The next day they're like, nope, change of plans. President Bush says we're
00:29:00.008 --> 00:29:01.848
Joe Smarro: going in. Everyone unpack, get ready.
00:29:02.268 --> 00:29:04.408
Joe Smarro: Start doing your workups, do your preps, get everything ready.
00:29:04.548 --> 00:29:05.248
Joe Smarro: We're going to head in tonight.
00:29:06.100 --> 00:29:09.300
Joe Smarro: And then we wouldn't. And then four or five days later, all right,
00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:11.080
Joe Smarro: everyone, pack your stuff. We're going home.
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.260
Joe Smarro: Well, after five, six times, you just stop believing it.
00:29:15.380 --> 00:29:18.680
Joe Smarro: And I remember vividly the time they were like, all right, let's go,
00:29:18.760 --> 00:29:20.140
Joe Smarro: everyone load up. We're going to cross in.
00:29:20.280 --> 00:29:25.740
Joe Smarro: We're just like, we're so relaxed in our demeanor because no one believes it to be true.
00:29:26.040 --> 00:29:30.740
Joe Smarro: And then the moment they're like, no, we're loading up into these Amtraks and
00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:32.740
Joe Smarro: we're crossing into Iraq.
00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:36.020
Joe Smarro: I remember thinking like, oh, damn, like we're actually not going home.
00:29:36.100 --> 00:29:38.640
Joe Smarro: And we're actually going to war this time.
00:29:38.740 --> 00:29:41.180
Joe Smarro: They've been telling us this for two months, but like, it's never been true.
00:29:41.520 --> 00:29:43.580
Joe Smarro: And now we're actually in Iraq.
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:47.840
Joe Smarro: Holy crap. Like it suddenly became very, very real.
00:29:49.220 --> 00:29:55.040
Joe Smarro: And that deployment for me was the one where they were trying really hard to get us to reenlist.
00:29:55.160 --> 00:30:01.200
Joe Smarro: Cause that was, so that was March to like October of 2003.
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:05.740
Joe Smarro: And I was, I was supposed to get out in June of 2004, which is when I did get out.
00:30:06.100 --> 00:30:08.760
Joe Smarro: But because I was coming up on the end of my enlistment, that's when they were
00:30:08.760 --> 00:30:12.020
Joe Smarro: like, hey, you're on your last year. Do you want to re-up? We're going to give
00:30:12.020 --> 00:30:13.980
Joe Smarro: you this money. It's tax-free because we're overseas.
00:30:14.380 --> 00:30:17.160
Joe Smarro: You can take this money now, sign up for another four-year contract.
00:30:17.280 --> 00:30:20.160
Joe Smarro: And I was like, there is not a chance. I was already a father at this point,
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:21.380
Joe Smarro: remember? That's why I joined.
00:30:21.760 --> 00:30:24.700
Joe Smarro: I don't know that I would have had the courage to join, if I'm honest with you, Kevin.
00:30:25.360 --> 00:30:29.400
Joe Smarro: If 9-11 happened when I was in high school and I had a baby,
00:30:29.540 --> 00:30:32.720
Joe Smarro: I don't know that I would have still been able to join the military just out of pure fear.
00:30:32.760 --> 00:30:36.240
Joe Smarro: And I'm just being honest. I don't know that I would have had the courage to
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:38.240
Joe Smarro: do it knowing, oh, I'm going to war.
00:30:38.740 --> 00:30:42.680
Joe Smarro: I went to war because I was already signed up and felt I really didn't have a choice.
00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:47.320
Joe Smarro: And I'm truly grateful for the experience, even though to this day,
00:30:47.340 --> 00:30:49.120
Joe Smarro: I still have to deal with a lot of that.
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:53.920
Joe Smarro: I still am in treatment for a lot of that. I'm diagnosed clinically with PTSD
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:56.600
Joe Smarro: and persistent depressive disorder from the VA.
00:30:57.460 --> 00:31:03.000
Joe Smarro: And I stay engaged in treatment, but man, what a difficult time for sure.
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:08.100
Joe Smarro: And so, no, there was no world in which I was wanting to reenlist and just do
00:31:08.100 --> 00:31:11.300
Joe Smarro: more of that because the writing was on the wall that we were nowhere close to done.
00:31:11.520 --> 00:31:14.460
Joe Smarro: And if I were to reenlist, I was going to go right back.
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:18.900
Joe Smarro: And to end this part of the story, a good friend of ours, Moses Rocha,
00:31:19.020 --> 00:31:21.520
Joe Smarro: he was our sergeant in the Marine Corps, great guy.
00:31:22.377 --> 00:31:25.957
Joe Smarro: He ended up taking the re-enlistment bonus. When we got back,
00:31:26.337 --> 00:31:28.797
Joe Smarro: obviously it's towards the end of my time. I start getting out.
00:31:29.097 --> 00:31:32.417
Joe Smarro: They go right back over about four months after they got back.
00:31:32.837 --> 00:31:35.897
Joe Smarro: And he ended up getting shot down in his helicopter and died.
00:31:36.317 --> 00:31:42.477
Joe Smarro: And yeah, it was like, man, it was such a difficult thing because he got killed in combat.
00:31:42.497 --> 00:31:47.297
Joe Smarro: And then one of our other good friends ended up killing himself from our unit.
00:31:47.457 --> 00:31:52.257
Joe Smarro: And then another guy, it came out that it was an ATV accident.
00:31:52.377 --> 00:31:55.577
Joe Smarro: But this guy was like the chief, he was the colonel's driver.
00:31:55.877 --> 00:32:01.217
Joe Smarro: He was a very good driver, but he apparently slammed his ATV into a tree.
00:32:01.517 --> 00:32:05.317
Joe Smarro: And while it was ruled an accident, a lot of us wonder if that was the case
00:32:05.317 --> 00:32:07.257
Joe Smarro: or not. So yeah, and it's been tough.
00:32:07.437 --> 00:32:13.337
Joe Smarro: It's been tough, whether dying in theater or taking your life from suicide after it.
00:32:13.397 --> 00:32:17.757
Joe Smarro: I'll tell you, I've struggled with those thoughts since getting out in 2004
00:32:17.757 --> 00:32:20.117
Joe Smarro: throughout my time in the police department as well.
00:32:20.397 --> 00:32:26.637
Kevin Lowe: Yeah, absolutely. Wow. Now, it's something that I'm always curious about for
00:32:26.637 --> 00:32:31.417
Kevin Lowe: anybody who's served in the military, and especially as a state that you did,
00:32:31.577 --> 00:32:33.457
Kevin Lowe: deployed overseas, fighting like that.
00:32:33.637 --> 00:32:38.997
Kevin Lowe: How in the world do you transition back to just normal civilian life?
00:32:39.597 --> 00:32:40.737
Joe Smarro: Not well, Kevin.
00:32:43.237 --> 00:32:48.737
Joe Smarro: Yeah. I mean, this is why I always tell people like, yeah, I survived war physically,
00:32:48.957 --> 00:32:50.577
Joe Smarro: but psychologically there's no world.
00:32:50.717 --> 00:32:53.657
Joe Smarro: Right. And just to pull that thread a little bit for you, Kevin.
00:32:53.837 --> 00:32:56.977
Joe Smarro: So for me, I'm 22 years old, right? I don't have a college degree.
00:32:57.277 --> 00:33:01.117
Joe Smarro: I sucked in school, like in high school, like my grades were terrible.
00:33:01.277 --> 00:33:03.417
Joe Smarro: Cause again, I didn't like going. I wasn't very smart.
00:33:03.597 --> 00:33:08.077
Joe Smarro: I legit thought I was a stupid person because I never did homework because I
00:33:08.077 --> 00:33:12.977
Joe Smarro: rarely went home because, you know, so I obviously failed a lot of tests because
00:33:12.977 --> 00:33:14.457
Joe Smarro: I wasn't doing the homework to prepare.
00:33:14.757 --> 00:33:18.837
Joe Smarro: School was very hard for me. So I legit thought I was a dumb person. So now I'm 22.
00:33:19.676 --> 00:33:23.056
Joe Smarro: I legitimately don't think I'm very smart. I don't have a college degree.
00:33:23.236 --> 00:33:27.336
Joe Smarro: I don't have any real skills except for like, I know how not to die in war.
00:33:27.756 --> 00:33:31.016
Joe Smarro: Okay. So how does that transfer? Like, what do I do with this?
00:33:31.776 --> 00:33:36.596
Joe Smarro: And yeah, it's like, what profession kind of mirrors the military in the sense
00:33:36.596 --> 00:33:38.776
Joe Smarro: that like you get paid every couple of weeks, there's a pension,
00:33:38.936 --> 00:33:43.996
Joe Smarro: there's benefits, and it has a very low barrier of entry. Oh, I know I'll go be a cop.
00:33:45.036 --> 00:33:48.656
Joe Smarro: And, you know, that's not an offensive thing to anyone that is a police officer,
00:33:48.656 --> 00:33:50.976
Joe Smarro: as family that's a police officer. That's just a fact.
00:33:51.116 --> 00:33:53.396
Joe Smarro: It is not hard to be a police officer in this country.
00:33:53.636 --> 00:33:57.816
Joe Smarro: If you have a decent credit score, you haven't done drugs in a few years,
00:33:57.816 --> 00:34:03.136
Joe Smarro: and you're a relatively decent human being, and you can pass the MMPI saying
00:34:03.136 --> 00:34:05.176
Joe Smarro: you don't still wet the bed or burn cats,
00:34:05.776 --> 00:34:09.196
Joe Smarro: and you have the physical fitness standards to pass the PT test,
00:34:09.336 --> 00:34:10.616
Joe Smarro: you can be a police officer.
00:34:10.876 --> 00:34:14.976
Joe Smarro: And again, I have a problem with that. I really do. I think the standards needs
00:34:14.976 --> 00:34:16.496
Joe Smarro: to be raised for this profession.
00:34:16.756 --> 00:34:19.656
Joe Smarro: I remember, and I'm not jumping, but I want to make this point,
00:34:19.756 --> 00:34:23.916
Joe Smarro: Kevin, is the first time I went to the VA for treatment, like I was acutely suicidal.
00:34:24.116 --> 00:34:29.616
Joe Smarro: I was a cop for about eight years and my wife's leave. My second wife is leaving me.
00:34:29.756 --> 00:34:34.436
Joe Smarro: I've got three divorces by the time I'm 30 years old. I'm just a whole mess of a, of a person.
00:34:35.236 --> 00:34:38.756
Joe Smarro: And my wife's leaving me saying, Hey, I hate you. And something is seriously
00:34:38.756 --> 00:34:40.796
Joe Smarro: wrong with you. Like something is legitimately wrong.
00:34:41.236 --> 00:34:44.656
Joe Smarro: And I remember sitting there, I'm staring at my gun belt and I'm thinking like,
00:34:44.776 --> 00:34:46.676
Joe Smarro: I just, I just don't want to live anymore.
00:34:46.816 --> 00:34:50.156
Joe Smarro: How long am I going to be just thinking about suicide before I just make this
00:34:50.156 --> 00:34:51.356
Joe Smarro: choice and just be done with it?
00:34:52.016 --> 00:34:56.276
Joe Smarro: And for whatever reason, in that moment, it was so vividly clear to me.
00:34:56.516 --> 00:34:59.756
Joe Smarro: We'll call it the still small voice. We'll call it the loud booming voice.
00:34:59.876 --> 00:35:04.696
Joe Smarro: I don't know, but it was so vividly clear that two things happened in that moment
00:35:04.696 --> 00:35:07.236
Joe Smarro: of me looking at my gun thinking, I just want to die.
00:35:07.656 --> 00:35:11.896
Joe Smarro: It was, Joe, you need to go to treatment and you need to go to college.
00:35:12.496 --> 00:35:16.616
Joe Smarro: And both of those were the furthest things from anything I ever would have thought I would have done.
00:35:16.916 --> 00:35:20.996
Joe Smarro: And I'm like, what the hell was that? Like, why would I go to college? I hate school.
00:35:21.236 --> 00:35:24.156
Joe Smarro: I'm stupid. Like, why would I ever go to college and then go to the VA?
00:35:24.256 --> 00:35:25.176
Joe Smarro: Like, why would I go to the VA?
00:35:25.376 --> 00:35:30.376
Joe Smarro: I have my limbs. Now in San Antonio, it's one of the most prevalent places for
00:35:30.376 --> 00:35:31.876
Joe Smarro: treatment for warfighters.
00:35:31.996 --> 00:35:35.616
Joe Smarro: We've got the Center for Intrepid. We've got SAMSI. It's a level one burn trauma center.
00:35:35.836 --> 00:35:41.856
Joe Smarro: So I'm used to seeing very physically injured veterans or active duty personnel in this city.
00:35:42.176 --> 00:35:45.896
Joe Smarro: And then here I am like, yeah, my body is fine. I have no burns.
00:35:46.016 --> 00:35:49.136
Joe Smarro: I have all my limbs. I'm not on prosthetics. Like I'm not in a wheelchair.
00:35:49.396 --> 00:35:52.636
Joe Smarro: I don't walk with a cane. Like what the hell is my excuse? Like I don't need help.
00:35:52.956 --> 00:35:56.516
Joe Smarro: And that was, and I worked on a mental health unit, which is the absurdity of all this.
00:35:57.096 --> 00:36:01.076
Joe Smarro: And, but that's how real stigma is. And so I remember going to the VA
00:36:01.861 --> 00:36:04.921
Joe Smarro: And they're doing my background and my life. And same like you have like,
00:36:05.001 --> 00:36:06.641
Joe Smarro: tell me about your childhood, your life and all this stuff.
00:36:07.141 --> 00:36:10.081
Joe Smarro: And I remember Charlie tells me the first session, he goes, Joe,
00:36:10.281 --> 00:36:15.221
Joe Smarro: just so you know, with your level of childhood trauma, you are 300 times more
00:36:15.221 --> 00:36:18.221
Joe Smarro: likely to develop PTSD with any combat exposure.
00:36:18.761 --> 00:36:21.821
Joe Smarro: And my first question was, well, then why the hell did they let me join?
00:36:22.301 --> 00:36:24.441
Joe Smarro: And he's like, oh, because we don't screen for that. It's like,
00:36:24.501 --> 00:36:27.841
Joe Smarro: can you do pull-ups and run three miles? Welcome to the military.
00:36:28.441 --> 00:36:31.141
Joe Smarro: And I was like, well, that's a problem. He's like, yeah, it is a problem.
00:36:31.761 --> 00:36:35.981
Joe Smarro: So that same thing kind of carries over into policing. So I get on the police
00:36:35.981 --> 00:36:40.221
Joe Smarro: department and lo and behold, I get on the police department. I want to help people.
00:36:40.501 --> 00:36:43.921
Joe Smarro: I'm still the class clown at the police academy. So many people are stressed
00:36:43.921 --> 00:36:47.641
Joe Smarro: out. People are quitting. They're like, oh my God, they're yelling at me. This is scary.
00:36:47.981 --> 00:36:51.161
Joe Smarro: I don't know if I can do this work and I'm just having the time of my life.
00:36:51.601 --> 00:36:54.741
Joe Smarro: A lot of the instructors told me afterwards, they're like, dude,
00:36:54.881 --> 00:36:56.341
Joe Smarro: we don't know how you even graduated.
00:36:56.661 --> 00:37:00.001
Joe Smarro: We all were taking bets on the fact that like you were never going to make it
00:37:00.001 --> 00:37:03.001
Joe Smarro: through just because you're such a jackass and you just love like,
00:37:03.261 --> 00:37:05.641
Joe Smarro: you know, joking around all the time. You took nothing serious.
00:37:05.761 --> 00:37:08.881
Joe Smarro: And I'm like, well, yeah, because I know that this is just a mind game.
00:37:09.041 --> 00:37:12.821
Joe Smarro: You guys are just trying to break us to see who's going to be weak and not be
00:37:12.821 --> 00:37:15.661
Joe Smarro: able to finish this psychological game you're playing with us.
00:37:16.221 --> 00:37:21.701
Joe Smarro: And yeah, I might struggle psychologically and I might have an undiagnosed mental
00:37:21.701 --> 00:37:27.361
Joe Smarro: illness at that time, but the Marine Corps prepared me very well to like never fold to the games.
00:37:27.541 --> 00:37:30.881
Joe Smarro: Like it's just a mindset thing. And like, yeah, when it comes down to mindset
00:37:30.881 --> 00:37:33.261
Joe Smarro: to mindset, I won't lose. I really believe that.
00:37:34.021 --> 00:37:36.961
Joe Smarro: And I still struggle with like my own stuff for sure.
00:37:37.141 --> 00:37:40.401
Joe Smarro: Right. But anyone else like playing a game with me or psychologically trying
00:37:40.401 --> 00:37:42.101
Joe Smarro: to break me, it's like, yeah, that's not going to work.
00:37:42.731 --> 00:37:46.071
Joe Smarro: But I can break myself because I am my own worst enemy for sure.
00:37:47.171 --> 00:37:51.831
Joe Smarro: And I get on the police department and 364 days into my policing career,
00:37:52.271 --> 00:37:56.931
Joe Smarro: one day before my first year anniversary, I get a call. I'm working the south side of San Antonio.
00:37:57.611 --> 00:38:00.811
Joe Smarro: It's nighttime. I get a call for a guy screaming in a parking lot.
00:38:00.931 --> 00:38:04.151
Joe Smarro: I show up. He's there. He's not screaming. He's just staring into space.
00:38:04.711 --> 00:38:08.311
Joe Smarro: And I'm trying to talk to him. He won't respond. Trying to engage. He won't respond.
00:38:08.811 --> 00:38:11.671
Joe Smarro: I'm like, all right, man, I got to get you identified before I can let you go.
00:38:11.671 --> 00:38:14.231
Joe Smarro: Like you're not in any trouble, but just tell me your name and birthday so I
00:38:14.231 --> 00:38:16.431
Joe Smarro: can say I was here and then I'll take off.
00:38:16.591 --> 00:38:19.431
Joe Smarro: He wouldn't do it. And so I'm like, all right, we'll come to my car.
00:38:19.531 --> 00:38:22.191
Joe Smarro: And I grab his arm. We start walking to my car. He's complying.
00:38:22.611 --> 00:38:27.331
Joe Smarro: And as soon as we get to my car, he pulls his hand, his arm away from my hands,
00:38:27.491 --> 00:38:32.251
Joe Smarro: turns around, punches me in the face, fights on and nothing came off my belt.
00:38:32.391 --> 00:38:35.411
Joe Smarro: No taser, no pepper spray, no baton, nothing.
00:38:35.611 --> 00:38:40.411
Joe Smarro: We're just doing Brazilian jujitsu. We're just grappling on the ground, but he is screaming.
00:38:40.731 --> 00:38:43.471
Joe Smarro: He is screaming his face off. Help me.
00:38:43.851 --> 00:38:46.631
Joe Smarro: Please help me. He's killing me. He's going to kill me.
00:38:47.071 --> 00:38:50.371
Joe Smarro: I didn't have any mental health training. I don't know what the heck's going
00:38:50.371 --> 00:38:53.511
Joe Smarro: on right now. I'm like, what is going on? Like this dude must have a felony warrant.
00:38:53.691 --> 00:38:56.851
Joe Smarro: He's just trying to get away from me, but it was right at shift change.
00:38:57.231 --> 00:39:01.551
Joe Smarro: And so it was terrible timing, but I ended up rolling with this guy for seven
00:39:01.551 --> 00:39:06.151
Joe Smarro: minutes and 24 seconds, which is a long time before the first cover officer showed up.
00:39:06.591 --> 00:39:09.831
Joe Smarro: And it took four of us to get this guy handcuffed, no weapons,
00:39:10.071 --> 00:39:13.371
Joe Smarro: just rolling with this guy, trying to get his arms behind his back to handcuff him.
00:39:13.651 --> 00:39:15.851
Joe Smarro: And as soon as we got handcuffs on him, he died.
00:39:16.631 --> 00:39:20.631
Joe Smarro: And so I've got an in custody death. Now as a cop, I got out of the Marine Corps
00:39:20.631 --> 00:39:22.491
Joe Smarro: because I was tired of being surrounded by death.
00:39:22.651 --> 00:39:25.271
Joe Smarro: I was tired of causing death. I didn't like being around death.
00:39:25.491 --> 00:39:29.991
Joe Smarro: So now I'm a cop and oh, I get a call for a guy. I'm just doing my job.
00:39:30.786 --> 00:39:34.646
Joe Smarro: And now this dude's dead. And of course the media puts him out.
00:39:34.746 --> 00:39:39.666
Joe Smarro: There is like his name, father of five, 35 year old man, father of five killed by the police.
00:39:39.806 --> 00:39:44.626
Joe Smarro: And I'm like, damn, man. So I went into a dark, dark depression and that's when
00:39:44.626 --> 00:39:50.486
Joe Smarro: all of my childhood stuff, my military stuff, and now my police stuff all hit me at once.
00:39:50.746 --> 00:39:57.046
Joe Smarro: And that was the first time I was, I was probably 24, 25 at this time when that
00:39:57.046 --> 00:40:02.686
Joe Smarro: happened. And that's when I just took like almost two decades worth of trauma and just spiraled.
00:40:02.826 --> 00:40:07.486
Joe Smarro: And then I spent the next seven, eight years actively working very hard,
00:40:07.646 --> 00:40:08.846
Joe Smarro: trying to destroy my life.
00:40:09.146 --> 00:40:14.086
Joe Smarro: My vice was, thank God, not alcohol or marijuana or heroin or meth or anything
00:40:14.086 --> 00:40:17.026
Joe Smarro: like that or opiates, but my drug was women.
00:40:17.146 --> 00:40:20.766
Joe Smarro: And I would use women to validate myself because I hated myself.
00:40:20.766 --> 00:40:26.446
Joe Smarro: I had no self-esteem and I didn't believe love was real. I didn't think relationships would last.
00:40:27.006 --> 00:40:29.906
Joe Smarro: And so I would get into a relationship. I would have an affair.
00:40:30.086 --> 00:40:33.606
Joe Smarro: I would get caught. I'd break up. And this just happened over and over and over
00:40:33.606 --> 00:40:36.266
Joe Smarro: until finally I woke up and was like, wait a minute.
00:40:36.446 --> 00:40:40.486
Joe Smarro: I actually think I've discovered the common denominator in all this. And that's me.
00:40:40.846 --> 00:40:44.206
Joe Smarro: What if I'm the problem here? And that was the greatest blessing of my life
00:40:44.206 --> 00:40:47.866
Joe Smarro: was it's a mantra I live by to this day now, which is everything is my fault.
00:40:48.426 --> 00:40:52.006
Joe Smarro: And for your listeners, I'm not being harsh on myself and I don't want you to
00:40:52.006 --> 00:40:55.926
Joe Smarro: be harsh on yourself. but please understand that anything that happened to you
00:40:55.926 --> 00:40:59.266
Joe Smarro: all as children was not your fault. You didn't deserve it.
00:40:59.506 --> 00:41:02.526
Joe Smarro: Anything bad that happened to you, if you were a victim of something in your
00:41:02.526 --> 00:41:04.586
Joe Smarro: childhood, that was not your fault.
00:41:05.066 --> 00:41:09.206
Joe Smarro: And you did the one thing that we're all supposed to do as kids,
00:41:09.346 --> 00:41:12.866
Joe Smarro: which is just survive. All we're supposed to do in this life is survive our childhood.
00:41:13.086 --> 00:41:18.626
Joe Smarro: But then the great blessing is as adults, it's now on us to figure out what
00:41:18.626 --> 00:41:20.046
Joe Smarro: worked for me, what didn't work for me.
00:41:20.126 --> 00:41:24.346
Joe Smarro: What I'm doing through therapy right now is what they call like it's inner trauma work.
00:41:24.466 --> 00:41:28.286
Joe Smarro: But she told me like, hey, Joe, listen, the structures you created to survive
00:41:28.286 --> 00:41:32.046
Joe Smarro: your childhood were incredible because they helped you survive your childhood.
00:41:32.386 --> 00:41:35.666
Joe Smarro: The problem is those are not going to serve you now as an adult.
00:41:36.146 --> 00:41:41.746
Joe Smarro: And it's like, oh, so it's a lot of unlearning in my trauma work is accepting
00:41:41.746 --> 00:41:44.626
Joe Smarro: what happened to me as not my fault,
00:41:44.786 --> 00:41:48.366
Joe Smarro: but now taking responsibility for the choices I make as an adult because I'm
00:41:48.366 --> 00:41:52.686
Joe Smarro: sabotaging myself because of course I want to get in trouble or have my wife
00:41:52.686 --> 00:41:57.046
Joe Smarro: leave me because I don't believe I deserve to be loved. I don't think I'm worthy of anything good.
00:41:57.186 --> 00:42:01.606
Joe Smarro: And so let me actively try to destroy my life so then I can be a victim to it.
00:42:01.966 --> 00:42:04.966
Joe Smarro: And that's a lot of the work I've spent the last decade doing.
00:42:05.126 --> 00:42:08.346
Joe Smarro: And it's still, I'm a work in progress. It's hard. It really is hard,
00:42:08.426 --> 00:42:10.526
Joe Smarro: Kevin, that I have to do this
00:42:11.152 --> 00:42:16.332
Joe Smarro: Daily with my mindset work, managing my own thoughts, like giving myself grace,
00:42:16.812 --> 00:42:20.572
Joe Smarro: learning the power of gratitude and not future tripping or past dwelling,
00:42:20.772 --> 00:42:23.452
Joe Smarro: but really just rooting in the present moment to find something good.
00:42:23.772 --> 00:42:26.252
Joe Smarro: And it's a daily journey for sure.
00:42:26.792 --> 00:42:32.592
Kevin Lowe: Yeah. When that happened with that man who died, was there any part of you that
00:42:32.592 --> 00:42:35.552
Kevin Lowe: wanted to just go ahead and quit being a cop at that point?
00:42:35.912 --> 00:42:40.252
Joe Smarro: Absolutely. But with my company now, Solution Point Plus, we offer training
00:42:40.252 --> 00:42:41.212
Joe Smarro: all over the country, right?
00:42:41.292 --> 00:42:44.052
Joe Smarro: And to various groups, it's not just for first responders, it's everywhere.
00:42:44.332 --> 00:42:48.832
Joe Smarro: But so much of our work with first responders is like, hey, listen,
00:42:48.992 --> 00:42:50.772
Joe Smarro: you have to learn to be honest with yourself.
00:42:51.312 --> 00:42:54.132
Joe Smarro: Like I was an anomaly leaving at 15 years.
00:42:54.272 --> 00:42:57.012
Joe Smarro: My own peers were telling me how stupid I was like, dude, what are you doing?
00:42:57.152 --> 00:42:59.812
Joe Smarro: Like you don't get a pension at 15 years, like just do five more years.
00:43:00.152 --> 00:43:02.552
Joe Smarro: Like just wait till you have 20 years and then you'll get your pension.
00:43:02.812 --> 00:43:06.752
Joe Smarro: And I'm like, yeah, but I'm not happy. And they're like, none of us are, but you don't leave.
00:43:07.152 --> 00:43:11.672
Joe Smarro: And I was like, well, that's terrible advice. And so it was me stepping out
00:43:11.672 --> 00:43:14.232
Joe Smarro: on faith of like, yeah, I don't know if this is going to work or not,
00:43:14.312 --> 00:43:17.732
Joe Smarro: but I'm going to pursue this passion I have of this company that I've created
00:43:17.732 --> 00:43:20.192
Joe Smarro: that I, you know, that I want to see where we can take this.
00:43:20.752 --> 00:43:23.892
Joe Smarro: And, you know, it was just me and Jesse. Cause as soon as I quit my business
00:43:23.892 --> 00:43:25.252
Joe Smarro: partner, Jesse left right after
00:43:25.252 --> 00:43:29.272
Joe Smarro: me two weeks later, he had about almost 11 years as a cop. I had 15 years.
00:43:29.632 --> 00:43:33.532
Joe Smarro: I quit, he quit. And we're now four and a half years into this full time.
00:43:33.532 --> 00:43:34.752
Joe Smarro: I mean, we're still doing this together.
00:43:34.912 --> 00:43:38.412
Joe Smarro: And, but it's like, man, if I just stayed stuck there,
00:43:39.167 --> 00:43:43.727
Joe Smarro: You know, if I call it playing small, but it's, it's because we become a prisoner to our pension.
00:43:44.107 --> 00:43:49.767
Joe Smarro: And for me, I think a pension is a great idea, but understand a pension is fixed income most often.
00:43:50.707 --> 00:43:56.227
Joe Smarro: And if you are not happy doing the thing you are spending a third of your life doing, then change it.
00:43:56.487 --> 00:43:59.767
Joe Smarro: Like none of us were drafted into our professions, right?
00:43:59.847 --> 00:44:02.707
Joe Smarro: Like no one came to your door, Kevin, and said, Hey, sorry, Kevin,
00:44:02.847 --> 00:44:06.087
Joe Smarro: bad news, but you're going to start a podcast and you don't have a choice,
00:44:06.447 --> 00:44:09.867
Joe Smarro: right? If you didn't get joy from doing this, I imagine, I would hope that you
00:44:09.867 --> 00:44:12.267
Joe Smarro: would just stop doing it, but it's because you still enjoy it.
00:44:12.327 --> 00:44:15.887
Joe Smarro: You love doing this is why you have a great show, right? It's why your audience
00:44:15.887 --> 00:44:18.267
Joe Smarro: loves listening to you because they know you're passionate about it.
00:44:18.547 --> 00:44:22.187
Joe Smarro: There are far too many police officers that have lost their purpose and passion
00:44:22.187 --> 00:44:24.187
Joe Smarro: in the work. They become so frustrated.
00:44:24.447 --> 00:44:28.527
Joe Smarro: They have just become pawns in the system. They don't love the leadership.
00:44:28.807 --> 00:44:32.927
Joe Smarro: They themselves are bad leaders, but they won't leave. And I've heard this countless
00:44:32.927 --> 00:44:34.287
Joe Smarro: times all over the country.
00:44:34.287 --> 00:44:37.887
Joe Smarro: And again, not just police, fire, EMS, corrections, dispatchers,
00:44:38.287 --> 00:44:42.467
Joe Smarro: nurses, teachers, public transit workers, all of our clients,
00:44:42.687 --> 00:44:45.227
Joe Smarro: everything I just named, we have clients in all of those professions.
00:44:45.567 --> 00:44:50.327
Joe Smarro: And I have heard it every single time from somebody saying, I just have to do
00:44:50.327 --> 00:44:53.647
Joe Smarro: X more years before I can be done. And I'm like, why?
00:44:54.087 --> 00:44:58.467
Joe Smarro: Like you have one life to live. Why not? What I call maximize the human experience
00:44:58.467 --> 00:45:02.627
Joe Smarro: is like, if we can just accept that we're here, right? Whether it's whatever
00:45:02.627 --> 00:45:06.247
Joe Smarro: you believe in, God, karma, faith, Big Bang, it doesn't matter to me.
00:45:06.327 --> 00:45:07.167
Joe Smarro: That's between you and you.
00:45:07.287 --> 00:45:12.787
Joe Smarro: But for me, it's like the thing we cannot deny is the fact that we get to be alive is a miracle.
00:45:13.087 --> 00:45:18.487
Joe Smarro: And the best estimates I found in research is that the odds of us being born is one in 400 trillion.
00:45:19.167 --> 00:45:24.047
Joe Smarro: So we can't argue the fact we are a miracle. And we know that on average in
00:45:24.047 --> 00:45:26.487
Joe Smarro: America, our life expectancy is about 78 years.
00:45:26.627 --> 00:45:30.767
Joe Smarro: All right. So if we're alive for 78 years on average, and for me,
00:45:30.867 --> 00:45:34.447
Joe Smarro: like I'm 43 years old, I already look about like, not that I want to die at 78.
00:45:34.607 --> 00:45:38.407
Joe Smarro: I don't want to die. I want to, I want to, I want to live to 150 if I can be healthy.
00:45:39.177 --> 00:45:43.197
Joe Smarro: But because I've learned now to start enjoying my life and it's taken me a long
00:45:43.197 --> 00:45:46.977
Joe Smarro: time to get here, but I also realized that the statistics and data would tell
00:45:46.977 --> 00:45:51.077
Joe Smarro: me because of my high ACEs score, my adverse childhood experiences score,
00:45:51.337 --> 00:45:54.897
Joe Smarro: that I have a lower life expectancy because of the amount of trauma I have,
00:45:55.017 --> 00:45:58.557
Joe Smarro: because of my poor life choices I've made, because of these things that I've
00:45:58.557 --> 00:46:00.797
Joe Smarro: endured, I have a lower life expectancy.
00:46:01.077 --> 00:46:06.217
Joe Smarro: So if 78 is the end of my line and I'm 43, it's like, oh, I'm already more than
00:46:06.217 --> 00:46:09.357
Joe Smarro: halfway into my life. I want to enjoy this. I want to have fun.
00:46:09.997 --> 00:46:12.937
Joe Smarro: Like to me, life is meant to be enjoyed and we have way too many people taking
00:46:12.937 --> 00:46:17.517
Joe Smarro: it far too serious and then not willing to do the things required to make changes for themselves.
00:46:17.997 --> 00:46:24.477
Kevin Lowe: Yeah, 100%. What for you was the, I guess, the turning point, honestly?
00:46:24.757 --> 00:46:29.537
Kevin Lowe: I mean, after that incident, after the year mark of being a police officer,
00:46:29.697 --> 00:46:31.797
Kevin Lowe: you spiral down, we go through all of this stuff.
00:46:32.017 --> 00:46:36.377
Kevin Lowe: But what was kind of the turning point when things turned around for you?
00:46:36.977 --> 00:46:39.937
Joe Smarro: There's two things that saved and changed my life.
00:46:40.117 --> 00:46:45.057
Joe Smarro: The first one was therapy. 16 years ago, just starting that journey and kind
00:46:45.057 --> 00:46:51.117
Joe Smarro: of breaking through the own stigma that I had, that was incredibly powerful for me.
00:46:51.237 --> 00:46:56.457
Joe Smarro: And it was my wife, my second wife leaving me the first time.
00:46:56.737 --> 00:47:01.157
Joe Smarro: And then the second thing was about seven years ago, I discovered a channel
00:47:01.157 --> 00:47:03.397
Joe Smarro: with Tom Bilyeu called Impact Theory.
00:47:03.877 --> 00:47:06.977
Joe Smarro: And it was just like a mindset. It was all about growth mindset,
00:47:06.977 --> 00:47:10.597
Joe Smarro: and he would have incredible guests on his show as a video podcast on YouTube.
00:47:11.357 --> 00:47:14.957
Joe Smarro: And I remember he had Ryan Holiday on there, and Ryan Holiday,
00:47:15.097 --> 00:47:17.417
Joe Smarro: who I had never heard of before, was talking about stoicism,
00:47:17.437 --> 00:47:18.537
Joe Smarro: which I had never heard of before.
00:47:19.282 --> 00:47:25.602
Joe Smarro: And when he was speaking, it woke up something in my soul to where I was like, whoa, what is this?
00:47:25.742 --> 00:47:29.662
Joe Smarro: And then I went down the stoicism path and started reading Ryan Holiday books.
00:47:29.782 --> 00:47:32.122
Joe Smarro: The obstacle is the way stillness is the key.
00:47:32.542 --> 00:47:36.762
Joe Smarro: The daily stoic, all this stuff. And I was like, this to me feels like truth.
00:47:37.622 --> 00:47:42.242
Joe Smarro: And I have a tattoo on my arm that says, I'm more fati, which is a quote that
00:47:42.242 --> 00:47:46.222
Joe Smarro: just says it translates to love of fate, which it's like, hey,
00:47:46.302 --> 00:47:48.262
Joe Smarro: if it's happening to you, it's happening for you.
00:47:49.022 --> 00:47:52.142
Joe Smarro: And what I tell people is you can either learn the lesson through it or you
00:47:52.142 --> 00:47:54.762
Joe Smarro: can hold the pain of it, but I'd rather learn the lesson.
00:47:55.022 --> 00:47:57.382
Joe Smarro: And then just another beautiful quote that I love, which is,
00:47:57.482 --> 00:48:00.102
Joe Smarro: I've learned to become grateful for the things I wish never happened.
00:48:00.342 --> 00:48:04.362
Joe Smarro: Like, sure, I wish I was never molested. I wish I was never abused.
00:48:04.542 --> 00:48:10.562
Joe Smarro: I wish that I didn't have to join the military out of necessity of being a father as a child.
00:48:10.922 --> 00:48:15.522
Joe Smarro: And I have learned to become so grateful for all of those things in my life
00:48:15.522 --> 00:48:19.702
Joe Smarro: because it's what drives the work that I do today that gives me meaning and purpose.
00:48:19.902 --> 00:48:22.102
Joe Smarro: And so without those, who knows what I would be doing.
00:48:22.622 --> 00:48:26.662
Joe Smarro: And when we can have that reframe, and again, stoicism has really helped deliver
00:48:26.662 --> 00:48:30.302
Joe Smarro: me and get me there to that, it really just makes the world binary.
00:48:30.762 --> 00:48:35.322
Joe Smarro: And while human beings are incredibly complex and I have such deep love for
00:48:35.322 --> 00:48:39.522
Joe Smarro: people, I really do see the world as simply binary.
00:48:39.842 --> 00:48:44.242
Joe Smarro: And it's like, is this in my control or is it not? If it's not in my control,
00:48:44.242 --> 00:48:46.202
Joe Smarro: then why am I going to stress and worry about it?
00:48:46.382 --> 00:48:51.442
Joe Smarro: And I think we just have so many people right now operating from a place of
00:48:51.442 --> 00:48:55.822
Joe Smarro: things that are so far outside of their control, and yet they carry massive
00:48:55.822 --> 00:48:57.502
Joe Smarro: amounts of burden because of it.
00:48:58.122 --> 00:49:02.982
Joe Smarro: And while again, I have so much empathy for them, I also see it as voluntary suffering.
00:49:03.302 --> 00:49:07.882
Joe Smarro: Because if we learn to manage our minds, if we get into therapy and heal things,
00:49:08.022 --> 00:49:13.182
Joe Smarro: if we get into coaching and have accountability and someone revealing our minds
00:49:13.182 --> 00:49:16.262
Joe Smarro: to us and how they work so that we can learn how to leverage them,
00:49:16.502 --> 00:49:19.242
Joe Smarro: then there's incredible freedom on the other side of that.
00:49:19.642 --> 00:49:24.022
Joe Smarro: Right. But there's something about the fact that like some people just for whatever
00:49:24.022 --> 00:49:27.002
Joe Smarro: reason it is, there's a myriad of reasons, but it's just a form of sabotage.
00:49:27.382 --> 00:49:32.582
Joe Smarro: But sadly, there's a lot of people that just want to stay stuck because it's comfortable.
00:49:33.262 --> 00:49:36.342
Joe Smarro: And it's like my therapist told me, it's like, Joe, you thrive in chaos.
00:49:36.782 --> 00:49:40.942
Joe Smarro: So like when things are calm, when I have a really good day,
00:49:41.062 --> 00:49:44.062
Joe Smarro: I have to be very careful because I'm like, uh-oh, the thoughts start to creep
00:49:44.062 --> 00:49:48.322
Joe Smarro: in of like, okay, this is going way too well. I need to make sure I ruin this.
00:49:48.442 --> 00:49:52.202
Joe Smarro: And so what can I do to cause conflict in my own life to make sure my day gets worse?
00:49:52.442 --> 00:49:56.502
Joe Smarro: And I have to be very, very mindful of that. But again, I have committed to doing the work.
00:49:56.822 --> 00:50:00.902
Joe Smarro: So it was divorces, it was therapy, and it was the discovery of stoicism that
00:50:00.902 --> 00:50:03.682
Joe Smarro: really woke me up and realized I've got to start taking control of my life.
00:50:04.382 --> 00:50:10.102
Kevin Lowe: Wow. That's incredible. That's absolutely incredible. And I guess my next question
00:50:10.102 --> 00:50:13.522
Kevin Lowe: is, as I listen to you talk, I can't help but wonder,
00:50:14.214 --> 00:50:22.134
Kevin Lowe: A guy who has struggled himself with mental illness, how do you then,
00:50:22.274 --> 00:50:27.754
Kevin Lowe: like, you would almost think in my head, you would want to steer clear of that.
00:50:27.914 --> 00:50:32.934
Kevin Lowe: Like, you have your own struggles, but instead, you've kind of dove deep into
00:50:32.934 --> 00:50:37.334
Kevin Lowe: it, helping others with their own mental state.
00:50:37.574 --> 00:50:41.494
Joe Smarro: Yeah, and I think, Kevin, it's a great point. I will, I'll admit that my first
00:50:41.494 --> 00:50:45.454
Joe Smarro: two years, year and a half to two years on the mental health unit for San Antonio
00:50:45.454 --> 00:50:47.814
Joe Smarro: police department, I was a massive hypocrite.
00:50:48.074 --> 00:50:53.434
Joe Smarro: I showed up every day telling people again, I'm a, I'm good at putting those masks on.
00:50:53.774 --> 00:50:58.354
Joe Smarro: It's why my TEDx talk, I titled, I see you because it's about seeing beyond your mask.
00:50:59.514 --> 00:51:01.574
Joe Smarro: And, but I would show up every day telling people, you know,
00:51:01.634 --> 00:51:03.674
Joe Smarro: if you just took your medicine, if you just went to the doctor,
00:51:03.814 --> 00:51:06.034
Joe Smarro: if you would just stay on your meds, if you would just go to treatment,
00:51:06.254 --> 00:51:09.174
Joe Smarro: you wouldn't have to deal with the police. You wouldn't have to be mad at us.
00:51:09.514 --> 00:51:13.734
Joe Smarro: And then I would go home. I struggled with like a pornography addiction for three years.
00:51:13.854 --> 00:51:15.794
Joe Smarro: I would drink four or five beers
00:51:15.794 --> 00:51:19.794
Joe Smarro: after my shift, just trying to like calm myself down and go to sleep.
00:51:20.514 --> 00:51:24.474
Joe Smarro: And I'm like, I'm a mess. Like I'm an absolute mess of a human being.
00:51:24.594 --> 00:51:27.374
Joe Smarro: But then I would show up to work every day on time with a good attitude.
00:51:27.374 --> 00:51:28.634
Joe Smarro: And people were like, oh, wow.
00:51:28.814 --> 00:51:31.694
Joe Smarro: And I did. When I went to therapy, I also started going to school.
00:51:31.894 --> 00:51:37.414
Joe Smarro: And guess what? I finished number one in my school as the top graduate with
00:51:37.414 --> 00:51:40.114
Joe Smarro: the highest GPA. And it wasn't because I was the smartest.
00:51:40.514 --> 00:51:44.854
Joe Smarro: It was because I was the most distracted. And what I mean by that is I used
00:51:44.854 --> 00:51:47.434
Joe Smarro: school as a crutch. School was 6 p.m.
00:51:48.134 --> 00:51:52.454
Joe Smarro: So I would work 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. And then school was 6 p.m. to 10 p.m.
00:51:53.254 --> 00:51:56.134
Joe Smarro: And anytime I'd go to school and the professor would say, hey,
00:51:56.274 --> 00:51:59.514
Joe Smarro: good news, guys, we're going to be out of here tonight by seven o'clock, I would panic.
00:51:59.674 --> 00:52:03.694
Joe Smarro: And I'm like, no, I can't leave at seven o'clock because I'm not going home.
00:52:03.874 --> 00:52:06.214
Joe Smarro: Home is not a safe place for me. I don't like being home.
00:52:06.694 --> 00:52:09.674
Joe Smarro: So when we would get released at seven, I would just stay there.
00:52:09.794 --> 00:52:13.134
Joe Smarro: I would go to the library. I'd sit in my truck and I would just do the work.
00:52:13.374 --> 00:52:17.894
Joe Smarro: And so I think because I just put the most time into the assignments,
00:52:17.894 --> 00:52:23.314
Joe Smarro: that's how I ended up finishing top of the class. But it was all out of avoiding wanting to be home.
00:52:23.894 --> 00:52:28.194
Joe Smarro: And again, when people create their distractions or their masks or their avoidant
00:52:28.194 --> 00:52:33.034
Joe Smarro: behaviors, it's so hard for them sometimes to agree or see it when it's something positive.
00:52:33.254 --> 00:52:35.534
Joe Smarro: Because on the outside looking in, if you didn't know any better,
00:52:35.654 --> 00:52:38.694
Joe Smarro: you'd say like, Like, wow, look at Joe. He's a great cop. He's doing great work
00:52:38.694 --> 00:52:41.214
Joe Smarro: in the community. He's well-respected. He's never getting in trouble.
00:52:41.414 --> 00:52:44.854
Joe Smarro: In fact, he's getting awards and accolades. And he's in school.
00:52:45.134 --> 00:52:48.134
Joe Smarro: And he's finishing top of his class. He's on the dean's list.
00:52:48.234 --> 00:52:50.394
Joe Smarro: He finished number one. Like, man, what a great guy.
00:52:50.574 --> 00:52:53.214
Joe Smarro: And yet, I'm still thinking, I just want to die.
00:52:53.959 --> 00:52:58.619
Joe Smarro: And it wasn't until again, after that two year mark where I decided I need to
00:52:58.619 --> 00:53:00.819
Joe Smarro: go to treatment and start going to therapy.
00:53:01.139 --> 00:53:03.419
Joe Smarro: And then to actually answer your question and make the point,
00:53:03.539 --> 00:53:05.779
Joe Smarro: Kevin, this work became cathartic for me.
00:53:05.899 --> 00:53:09.899
Joe Smarro: And what I learned was every time I go to therapy and learn something about
00:53:09.899 --> 00:53:13.519
Joe Smarro: myself, I was like, whoa, yes, this is good for me.
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:17.439
Joe Smarro: This is all for me, but other people need to know this.
00:53:17.799 --> 00:53:21.339
Joe Smarro: And I have a privilege of working on a mental health unit where I get to interface
00:53:21.339 --> 00:53:25.739
Joe Smarro: with people in the worst moments. and what am I doing that I'm learning through
00:53:25.739 --> 00:53:28.299
Joe Smarro: my own therapeutic journey that now I can help other people?
00:53:28.399 --> 00:53:31.359
Joe Smarro: And again, I'm not providing therapy in crisis context.
00:53:31.619 --> 00:53:35.859
Joe Smarro: I'm doing de-escalation, but I'm learning skills that have allowed me to better
00:53:35.859 --> 00:53:39.899
Joe Smarro: connect to myself that now I can take and use on other people to help them better
00:53:39.899 --> 00:53:40.819
Joe Smarro: connect with themselves.
00:53:41.019 --> 00:53:45.119
Joe Smarro: And even if it was just to give them hope to wanna stay alive one more day.
00:53:46.099 --> 00:53:49.739
Joe Smarro: And now I am in a position where I help people that help people.
00:53:50.079 --> 00:53:54.339
Joe Smarro: And as a training company, we fuse all of these concepts and the things that
00:53:54.339 --> 00:53:57.579
Joe Smarro: I've learned through my various treatment modalities, even stoicism.
00:53:57.739 --> 00:54:00.479
Joe Smarro: Stoicism influences all of our content and our curriculum.
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:04.139
Joe Smarro: And so I've taken all of these things on my own journey, right?
00:54:04.219 --> 00:54:07.679
Joe Smarro: And the saying we use is facts tell and stories sell, right?
00:54:08.059 --> 00:54:11.379
Joe Smarro: Jesse, who has a PhD, he's just got to finish his dissertation.
00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:15.119
Joe Smarro: I'm four classes shy. My master's degree, my goal is to never have to finish
00:54:15.119 --> 00:54:16.719
Joe Smarro: it because in business, I don't
00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:19.739
Joe Smarro: need the formal education. I just need execution and decision-making.
00:54:20.019 --> 00:54:22.919
Joe Smarro: But for me, like we are intelligent people.
00:54:23.299 --> 00:54:26.439
Joe Smarro: And I just want people to know, like when they come to our trainings,
00:54:26.599 --> 00:54:29.419
Joe Smarro: that it's like, we're not just going to give you a whole bunch of research and data.
00:54:29.819 --> 00:54:34.219
Joe Smarro: We're going to let you connect to us as people that have lived experiences and stories.
00:54:34.379 --> 00:54:39.079
Joe Smarro: And this is the power of like peer connection and peer support is when you have
00:54:39.079 --> 00:54:42.899
Joe Smarro: people with lived experiences, it's so much easier for an audience to connect
00:54:42.899 --> 00:54:46.539
Joe Smarro: to them versus just saying the data says, or the research says,
00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:50.439
Joe Smarro: and it's like, yeah, but have you lived this life? And my answer typically is yes.
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:55.279
Kevin Lowe: Yeah, yeah, I love it. As we've kind of walked through this story today,
00:54:55.499 --> 00:54:59.479
Kevin Lowe: we've talked about these multiple transitions in your life, whether from going
00:54:59.479 --> 00:55:04.639
Kevin Lowe: from living at your mother's to your father's, to you leaving home,
00:55:04.959 --> 00:55:08.099
Kevin Lowe: ended up living with friends and then your girlfriend,
00:55:08.499 --> 00:55:10.999
Kevin Lowe: then joining the military, then becoming a cop.
00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:15.739
Kevin Lowe: All of these transitions that really were things that weren't quote unquote
00:55:15.739 --> 00:55:19.899
Kevin Lowe: like the thing, the, say, the choice that maybe you wanted to do,
00:55:19.979 --> 00:55:23.079
Kevin Lowe: but you just didn't. When you made the choice...
00:55:24.009 --> 00:55:29.389
Kevin Lowe: To chase a passion, leaving being a police officer into this world of kind of entrepreneurship.
00:55:29.569 --> 00:55:35.049
Kevin Lowe: What was that transition like? Because it was really the first time from my
00:55:35.049 --> 00:55:39.489
Kevin Lowe: kind of perspective that you chose something based really on what you wanted to do.
00:55:40.009 --> 00:55:45.829
Joe Smarro: Incredible, Kevin. Yes. You're an incredible listener and you are really skilled
00:55:45.829 --> 00:55:49.029
Joe Smarro: and talented at seeing the throughput here.
00:55:49.229 --> 00:55:53.329
Joe Smarro: So right before I left, it was doing the work with my therapist that I'm still
00:55:53.329 --> 00:55:54.929
Joe Smarro: with now. I've been with her almost seven years.
00:55:55.229 --> 00:55:58.169
Joe Smarro: And she was a big reason why I left because, you know, again,
00:55:58.289 --> 00:56:00.549
Joe Smarro: I had all the fear. I fought it for 18 months.
00:56:00.869 --> 00:56:04.349
Joe Smarro: I was like, I know I'm not happy, but I can't just walk away.
00:56:04.509 --> 00:56:07.949
Joe Smarro: And yeah, I have this business, but like, we're not making any real money.
00:56:08.049 --> 00:56:12.329
Joe Smarro: I mean, we're making like $30,000 a year as a side hustle.
00:56:12.509 --> 00:56:16.409
Joe Smarro: Like I can't live on that and pay my child support and health insurance and all that.
00:56:16.509 --> 00:56:20.149
Joe Smarro: So I'm like, yeah, I don't know that leaving is smart, but I also don't love
00:56:20.149 --> 00:56:21.309
Joe Smarro: being unhappy every day.
00:56:21.969 --> 00:56:26.229
Joe Smarro: And I remember my therapist telling me, she goes, Joe, just like you brought up right there.
00:56:26.609 --> 00:56:31.189
Joe Smarro: She's like, you have been a victim or a passenger in your whole life or in your
00:56:31.189 --> 00:56:34.929
Joe Smarro: life, your entire life, right? You chose the military because you had a kid.
00:56:35.049 --> 00:56:38.189
Joe Smarro: You chose the police department because you didn't have a skill or a job that
00:56:38.189 --> 00:56:40.049
Joe Smarro: you thought would transfer. So you just became a cop.
00:56:40.569 --> 00:56:46.609
Joe Smarro: You went to school and therapy because you thought this was a better alternative to suicide.
00:56:47.409 --> 00:56:52.289
Joe Smarro: And you've always done things from the passenger seat of your own life,
00:56:52.289 --> 00:56:53.989
Joe Smarro: and you've never really taken control of it.
00:56:54.109 --> 00:56:57.609
Joe Smarro: She was like, I want you to pull out your phone and let's just pick a date on
00:56:57.609 --> 00:56:59.989
Joe Smarro: the calendar and you're going to quit.
00:57:00.249 --> 00:57:03.189
Joe Smarro: And I was like, ah, terrified, like so afraid.
00:57:03.369 --> 00:57:07.769
Joe Smarro: And she goes, Joe, I promise you, if you just focus all your time on this one
00:57:07.769 --> 00:57:12.129
Joe Smarro: thing, because it's what you're actually passionate about, you can't fail.
00:57:13.149 --> 00:57:17.229
Joe Smarro: And other people had told me this, right? Other people in the entrepreneurship
00:57:17.229 --> 00:57:21.249
Joe Smarro: space that I belong to, some mentors are like, you're not an entrepreneur,
00:57:21.429 --> 00:57:24.509
Joe Smarro: you're a wantrepreneur because you still have your safety net.
00:57:24.629 --> 00:57:27.429
Joe Smarro: You know, you're getting paid in two weeks, so you don't have to grind on your
00:57:27.429 --> 00:57:29.529
Joe Smarro: business. And man, were they right?
00:57:30.169 --> 00:57:34.209
Joe Smarro: Because I'll tell you, in fact, in 2020 was our best year ever.
00:57:34.409 --> 00:57:38.669
Joe Smarro: So things started to pick up, which was a blessing. We did like $70,000 in 2020
00:57:38.669 --> 00:57:42.969
Joe Smarro: as a side hustle, but still it was COVID, right?
00:57:43.029 --> 00:57:47.689
Joe Smarro: We're in the midst of COVID, COVID's March, 2020, and we're now in September.
00:57:47.689 --> 00:57:52.229
Joe Smarro: And that's when I resigned was September 24th and the world shut down and I
00:57:52.229 --> 00:57:55.829
Joe Smarro: own an in-person training company. So all odds are stacked against me.
00:57:56.609 --> 00:58:01.829
Joe Smarro: And yeah, I honestly don't know. We just figured it out, but lo and behold, everyone was right.
00:58:01.969 --> 00:58:05.649
Joe Smarro: And again, I'm not bragging. I'm just trying to make a point here and answer the question, but
00:58:06.302 --> 00:58:14.462
Joe Smarro: Wouldn't you know it, in 2021, we went from $70,000 to over $700,000 in business our first year.
00:58:14.922 --> 00:58:18.782
Joe Smarro: And we had like 900% growth. And I was like, oh my goodness.
00:58:19.222 --> 00:58:22.722
Joe Smarro: Now, these are fun problems to have because I don't know how to actually manage money.
00:58:22.902 --> 00:58:26.122
Joe Smarro: So now I've got to learn this skill because I've never made this kind of money
00:58:26.122 --> 00:58:29.762
Joe Smarro: before, right? And so we made mistakes there. We were just burning cash.
00:58:30.022 --> 00:58:32.862
Joe Smarro: One of my mentors said, dude, you didn't create a business. You just created
00:58:32.862 --> 00:58:34.962
Joe Smarro: an ATM machine. This is not sustainable.
00:58:35.442 --> 00:58:40.402
Joe Smarro: Slow down. Um, yeah. So, but to bring all that home, yes.
00:58:40.562 --> 00:58:44.542
Joe Smarro: The point is when I finally decided I'm going to do what I want to do,
00:58:44.582 --> 00:58:47.942
Joe Smarro: it's what one of my, I got some custom shoes made Kevin.
00:58:48.102 --> 00:58:52.662
Joe Smarro: I got these like custom Nike air force ones made and how I signed every one of my books, right?
00:58:52.742 --> 00:58:56.122
Joe Smarro: Cause my first book just came out 2024 called unarmed.
00:58:56.642 --> 00:58:59.682
Joe Smarro: And a lot of the stuff that we've talked about today is in that book.
00:58:59.782 --> 00:59:04.242
Joe Smarro: And so I'd love to just offer some to your readers, but I sign every one of
00:59:04.242 --> 00:59:06.102
Joe Smarro: my books the same, which is be selfish.
00:59:06.522 --> 00:59:11.202
Joe Smarro: And this idea of learn to choose yourself for yourself, it's not bad.
00:59:11.362 --> 00:59:15.722
Joe Smarro: As a society, we've created such a negative description of what being selfish
00:59:15.722 --> 00:59:18.322
Joe Smarro: is. And there is a negative side of selfishness for sure.
00:59:18.542 --> 00:59:22.962
Joe Smarro: But my version of selfishness is I want to be known as a selfish person,
00:59:23.122 --> 00:59:28.262
Joe Smarro: a selfish man, a selfish individual, because you know, based on my actions,
00:59:28.262 --> 00:59:30.202
Joe Smarro: that I'm a very selfless person.
00:59:30.622 --> 00:59:35.582
Joe Smarro: And when I say be selfish, it means I go to therapy, even if I'm on the road,
00:59:35.702 --> 00:59:38.662
Joe Smarro: I'm gonna do it over Zoom. I have to play golf.
00:59:39.222 --> 00:59:43.962
Joe Smarro: And not daily, not even weekly, but if I don't get a tee time in at least once
00:59:43.962 --> 00:59:47.702
Joe Smarro: a month, I start losing my mind a little bit because I'm like, oh, I am way too focused.
00:59:48.002 --> 00:59:52.362
Joe Smarro: I'm business right now. I'm not bringing in enough pleasure because golf is
00:59:52.362 --> 00:59:54.742
Joe Smarro: my number one self-care for me personally. So it's like, yeah,
00:59:54.822 --> 00:59:58.642
Joe Smarro: I have to make sure I schedule my tee times so I know when my fun is going to be scheduled in.
00:59:59.102 --> 01:00:02.702
Joe Smarro: That's just my idea of what being selfish is, my morning gratitude, right?
01:00:02.882 --> 01:00:06.022
Joe Smarro: Every day, starting my day in reflection, where am I, why am I here,
01:00:06.142 --> 01:00:07.102
Joe Smarro: who contributed to this?
01:00:07.322 --> 01:00:11.562
Joe Smarro: Every day, the same thing, right? So I have my practices that I have to do for
01:00:11.562 --> 01:00:16.522
Joe Smarro: myself, but I see that as selfish because if I don't take myself serious and
01:00:16.522 --> 01:00:18.842
Joe Smarro: I don't prioritize myself and love myself first,
01:00:19.589 --> 01:00:23.229
Joe Smarro: then I'm not gonna be able to show up as the best version of myself for everyone else.
01:00:23.629 --> 01:00:27.029
Joe Smarro: Yeah, so the idea of being selfish is just learning to choose yourself.
01:00:27.249 --> 01:00:30.689
Joe Smarro: For all the listeners to this, Kevin, you, everyone listening to this,
01:00:30.809 --> 01:00:35.249
Joe Smarro: friends and family, the greatest cure you will ever have is your cure of the
01:00:35.249 --> 01:00:36.509
Joe Smarro: disease to people, please.
01:00:36.869 --> 01:00:41.349
Joe Smarro: And when we can stop living our lives in accordance with other people's expectations
01:00:41.349 --> 01:00:44.689
Joe Smarro: of what we should have done or what we should be or what we should be doing,
01:00:45.169 --> 01:00:48.689
Joe Smarro: there's so much freedom in learning to choose yourself, What drives you?
01:00:48.809 --> 01:00:50.129
Joe Smarro: What are you passionate about?
01:00:50.289 --> 01:00:54.769
Joe Smarro: And how can you learn to create a life around that? That to me is the beauty of life.
01:00:55.369 --> 01:01:05.209
Kevin Lowe: Yeah. Wow, man. What an amazing, amazing example of the blessings that can come
01:01:05.209 --> 01:01:08.689
Kevin Lowe: when you truly find your place in the world.
01:01:08.969 --> 01:01:13.449
Kevin Lowe: When you chase that passion, when you chase that desire, when you know the thing
01:01:13.449 --> 01:01:17.389
Kevin Lowe: that you were meant to do and you do it. You're not choosing out of obligation.
01:01:17.669 --> 01:01:21.229
Kevin Lowe: Or what you think you're supposed to do, but you just do it.
01:01:21.549 --> 01:01:25.069
Kevin Lowe: And to hear how business exploded,
01:01:25.769 --> 01:01:31.129
Kevin Lowe: how not only just having this business, which I want to ask you more about here in a minute,
01:01:31.329 --> 01:01:38.049
Kevin Lowe: but then you do TEDx talk, you've written a book, you're doing podcasting,
01:01:38.209 --> 01:01:43.589
Kevin Lowe: all of this sharing your story, but also just your pure,
01:01:43.969 --> 01:01:45.949
Kevin Lowe: utter passion for what you do.
01:01:45.949 --> 01:01:52.549
Kevin Lowe: So it's absolutely amazing and such a beautiful example of your world was just
01:01:52.549 --> 01:01:57.469
Kevin Lowe: your world, your life was just waiting on you to finally choose you.
01:01:57.829 --> 01:01:59.389
Kevin Lowe: And then it could all open up.
01:01:59.809 --> 01:02:01.809
Joe Smarro: Amen, brother. Well said. Absolutely.
01:02:02.609 --> 01:02:07.869
Kevin Lowe: Yes. Yes. Well, talk to me about the business that you and your partner started
01:02:07.869 --> 01:02:09.329
Kevin Lowe: and exactly what you guys do.
01:02:09.589 --> 01:02:13.449
Joe Smarro: Yeah. So we say we're international only because we're up in Canada as well.
01:02:13.449 --> 01:02:17.869
Joe Smarro: But we are a training and consulting firm that operates at the intersection
01:02:17.869 --> 01:02:20.109
Joe Smarro: of public safety and behavioral health care.
01:02:20.349 --> 01:02:26.269
Joe Smarro: So all of that to say, to make it very simple, we offer de-escalation training as our expertise.
01:02:26.429 --> 01:02:29.789
Joe Smarro: We are very good at de-escalation. So we have, I would argue,
01:02:29.869 --> 01:02:32.309
Joe Smarro: the best de-escalation training programs in North America.
01:02:32.994 --> 01:02:38.454
Joe Smarro: And then we also have wellness and resiliency, suicide prevention training as well.
01:02:38.634 --> 01:02:43.334
Joe Smarro: So we do the de-escalation training for me is giving people the skills to deal
01:02:43.334 --> 01:02:46.994
Joe Smarro: with the external world and other people that potentially go into crisis.
01:02:47.414 --> 01:02:51.694
Joe Smarro: And then the mental health, wellness and resiliency training that we offer is
01:02:51.694 --> 01:02:55.394
Joe Smarro: for the individual to help them level up their own life and learn some of the
01:02:55.394 --> 01:02:58.594
Joe Smarro: concepts that, again, I have learned and utilized in my own life.
01:02:59.274 --> 01:03:02.674
Joe Smarro: Our clients vary. Our largest client is the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
01:03:02.814 --> 01:03:07.074
Joe Smarro: And so all the federal prisons in America fall under our de-escalation training.
01:03:07.394 --> 01:03:11.774
Joe Smarro: And then we've got unique clients like the Valley Transportation Authority up
01:03:11.774 --> 01:03:16.554
Joe Smarro: in San Jose, which is bus operators and light rail workers in the public transit space.
01:03:16.734 --> 01:03:19.954
Joe Smarro: We've worked with grocery stores. We've worked with schools.
01:03:20.194 --> 01:03:21.674
Joe Smarro: We've worked with hospitals and healthcare.
01:03:21.934 --> 01:03:25.974
Joe Smarro: So it's really wherever there are people that deal with other people that have
01:03:25.974 --> 01:03:29.154
Joe Smarro: a potential to go into crisis, I assure you we have a solution.
01:03:29.414 --> 01:03:33.514
Joe Smarro: That's really what the business is. I do a lot of keynotes as well all over the country.
01:03:33.674 --> 01:03:38.674
Joe Smarro: I speak at conferences, which again, is more on the mindset,
01:03:39.034 --> 01:03:42.854
Joe Smarro: inspiration, motivation side, but then usually that's a funnel to get us in
01:03:42.854 --> 01:03:44.534
Joe Smarro: to do more training as well with our company.
01:03:44.914 --> 01:03:47.054
Joe Smarro: There are 12 people in the company now.
01:03:47.734 --> 01:03:52.214
Joe Smarro: And yeah, we're very easy to find, solutionpointplus.com, all spelled out.
01:03:52.534 --> 01:03:56.214
Joe Smarro: And then my website is joesmaro.com and that's where you can find me and the
01:03:56.214 --> 01:03:57.194
Joe Smarro: work that I'm doing as well.
01:03:57.314 --> 01:04:01.274
Joe Smarro: Or book me to speak at events or get the book. So very easy to find.
01:04:01.514 --> 01:04:04.614
Joe Smarro: And yeah, the company's awesome, man. I love it. It's so much fun.
01:04:04.894 --> 01:04:10.094
Joe Smarro: It's just all right now. It's in-person training that gives people the skills
01:04:10.094 --> 01:04:14.754
Joe Smarro: to increase their confidence and competence in dealing with the mental health crisis of America.
01:04:15.354 --> 01:04:19.814
Kevin Lowe: Yeah, fantastic. Well, I will be positive that all the links and stuff that
01:04:19.814 --> 01:04:23.494
Kevin Lowe: you mentioned are in the show notes for anybody interested for easy access. But yeah.
01:04:23.875 --> 01:04:29.075
Kevin Lowe: To kind of wrap up today, will you tell me more about the TEDx Talk You Did
01:04:29.075 --> 01:04:31.935
Kevin Lowe: plus your book? I would love to hear more about both of those.
01:04:32.335 --> 01:04:37.075
Joe Smarro: Yeah, so TEDx was in 2018 and I've been a big fan of TED for a long time,
01:04:37.255 --> 01:04:38.815
Joe Smarro: learned a lot from their talks.
01:04:39.295 --> 01:04:43.515
Joe Smarro: And so to speak on the red dot was a very, very proud moment for me.
01:04:43.935 --> 01:04:48.115
Joe Smarro: Although I will say my goal is to do another one where, because when I watch
01:04:48.115 --> 01:04:51.235
Joe Smarro: it now and you can just go on YouTube and put in my name, Joe Smorrow.
01:04:51.635 --> 01:04:57.495
Joe Smarro: But when I watch that, I'm like, oh, that is so bad because it doesn't feel like me.
01:04:57.675 --> 01:05:01.955
Joe Smarro: It doesn't have the right personality, the right gestures, the intonation,
01:05:01.975 --> 01:05:05.115
Joe Smarro: because with Ted, it's very memorization driven.
01:05:05.355 --> 01:05:09.935
Joe Smarro: You write your talk and then you have a curator, you have a coach,
01:05:10.055 --> 01:05:14.335
Joe Smarro: and then your talk starts changing multiple times until the whole group decides,
01:05:14.555 --> 01:05:17.155
Joe Smarro: yes, this is good. That's how ours was anyway.
01:05:17.855 --> 01:05:21.335
Joe Smarro: And so now I'm like, okay, we just got the final stamp on this,
01:05:21.395 --> 01:05:23.895
Joe Smarro: like five days before I go live.
01:05:24.055 --> 01:05:26.935
Joe Smarro: Now I've got to memorize this talk, which yes, it's my talk,
01:05:27.055 --> 01:05:29.335
Joe Smarro: but I got to memorize like 10 sheets of paper.
01:05:29.775 --> 01:05:34.695
Joe Smarro: And I, as a speaker and a trainer, I'm very good at just knowing what my main themes are.
01:05:34.815 --> 01:05:37.355
Joe Smarro: And then I can go off the cuff and I'm always like on time. Right.
01:05:37.435 --> 01:05:39.175
Joe Smarro: So I've gotten good at that skill.
01:05:39.475 --> 01:05:42.395
Joe Smarro: Well, this was very different. And so I felt a little robotic.
01:05:42.675 --> 01:05:46.595
Joe Smarro: I felt a little underprepared myself that I didn't put it in the right amount
01:05:46.595 --> 01:05:48.655
Joe Smarro: of time because I was like, I can just kind of wing it.
01:05:48.995 --> 01:05:53.835
Joe Smarro: Yeah, there's no winging it with Ted. So, but the concept I see you came from
01:05:53.835 --> 01:05:56.075
Joe Smarro: the movie Avatar and in the movie Avatar,
01:05:56.255 --> 01:05:59.615
Joe Smarro: how they greet each other as they take their like long hair and they like plug
01:05:59.615 --> 01:06:03.755
Joe Smarro: it into one another and you see this physical transference of energy and that's
01:06:03.755 --> 01:06:05.635
Joe Smarro: how they would actually connect and say hello.
01:06:06.330 --> 01:06:10.150
Joe Smarro: And I just thought how interesting that here, especially in the Western culture,
01:06:10.430 --> 01:06:14.670
Joe Smarro: that when we say hello to someone or like, hey, what's up? It's super trite.
01:06:14.770 --> 01:06:18.530
Joe Smarro: It's a very above surface level response.
01:06:19.110 --> 01:06:23.550
Joe Smarro: Think about this, Kevin. If you were walking down the street or in a store and
01:06:23.550 --> 01:06:24.810
Joe Smarro: someone was just like, hey, how you doing?
01:06:25.230 --> 01:06:28.730
Joe Smarro: And you're like, honestly, not well. I haven't slept well in a few weeks.
01:06:28.770 --> 01:06:32.890
Joe Smarro: I've been really struggling with my mental health. That person would be in such panic.
01:06:33.070 --> 01:06:36.030
Joe Smarro: They'd be like, whoa, man, Jesus, I didn't ask for all that. Good Lord.
01:06:36.330 --> 01:06:40.230
Joe Smarro: They wouldn't know what to do. And so because of that, we've just gotten into
01:06:40.230 --> 01:06:43.790
Joe Smarro: the habit of just given these like very flippant responses of like,
01:06:43.850 --> 01:06:44.550
Joe Smarro: yeah, everything's good.
01:06:44.630 --> 01:06:47.350
Joe Smarro: Living the dream. I'm fine. Hey, how are you? Good. All right. Awesome.
01:06:47.670 --> 01:06:50.530
Joe Smarro: There's no real meaning in that. There's no real connection in that.
01:06:50.630 --> 01:06:55.190
Joe Smarro: And I think that is the greatest thing that we are lacking as a society right
01:06:55.190 --> 01:07:01.090
Joe Smarro: now is true, meaningful connection, not fabricated, not a phantom connection, but like
01:07:01.910 --> 01:07:05.950
Joe Smarro: Real, true human connection is the thing that I think that we are lacking most.
01:07:06.090 --> 01:07:10.170
Joe Smarro: And so my talk was just how I, as a cop, focused on people,
01:07:10.370 --> 01:07:13.290
Joe Smarro: regardless of what they have done, regardless of what they have said,
01:07:13.450 --> 01:07:17.330
Joe Smarro: regardless of who they are, but to see the human in them, the one that is worthy
01:07:17.330 --> 01:07:21.610
Joe Smarro: and deserving of love and being the one willing to give that to them, if even for a moment.
01:07:21.890 --> 01:07:25.810
Joe Smarro: But it was also about pushing the power of reciprocity and that when I say I
01:07:25.810 --> 01:07:27.230
Joe Smarro: see you, This isn't one sided.
01:07:27.570 --> 01:07:31.930
Joe Smarro: I also want to be seen in return, which is why I would, if the situation allowed
01:07:31.930 --> 01:07:34.070
Joe Smarro: for it, I would share my story as well.
01:07:34.270 --> 01:07:37.510
Joe Smarro: Right. Like, hey, listen, man, I know right now while you're thinking about
01:07:37.510 --> 01:07:40.550
Joe Smarro: suicide and you're thinking that's the best option and you think you're all alone.
01:07:41.090 --> 01:07:45.070
Joe Smarro: You know, if the situation allowed for, I'd tell him, like, I can relate to a part of your story.
01:07:45.310 --> 01:07:48.390
Joe Smarro: Right. I have been in a similar position because of this thing that happened
01:07:48.390 --> 01:07:50.850
Joe Smarro: in my life, man. And it's hard. It's real hard.
01:07:51.593 --> 01:07:55.013
Joe Smarro: If you're willing to commit to the work, dude, like there's great opportunity
01:07:55.013 --> 01:07:58.373
Joe Smarro: on the other side of this, but right now you're just having a hard time seeing
01:07:58.373 --> 01:07:59.913
Joe Smarro: it because you're in the throes of it.
01:07:59.993 --> 01:08:03.573
Joe Smarro: And I've been there, man, but it's like, it's not about minimizing their experience.
01:08:03.713 --> 01:08:06.173
Joe Smarro: It's about sitting with them in it. And that's a big difference.
01:08:06.413 --> 01:08:09.133
Joe Smarro: And so that's what the talk was. And again, it's on YouTube.
01:08:09.273 --> 01:08:10.193
Joe Smarro: It's about 11 minutes long.
01:08:10.513 --> 01:08:15.353
Joe Smarro: And then my book is titled unarmed. It's deescalation techniques to cultivate
01:08:15.353 --> 01:08:18.873
Joe Smarro: courage, compassion, and connection. and a lot of what I'm talking about right
01:08:18.873 --> 01:08:22.633
Joe Smarro: now on the wellness stuff, on the suicide prevention stuff, and then the things
01:08:22.633 --> 01:08:25.113
Joe Smarro: we didn't really talk about, which is all like the skills stuff.
01:08:25.333 --> 01:08:28.553
Joe Smarro: So like four of the classes we teach in person are chapters in the book.
01:08:28.793 --> 01:08:32.653
Joe Smarro: And I did that for two reasons. One, I wanted the book to be a great resource
01:08:32.653 --> 01:08:33.993
Joe Smarro: for people that go through our training.
01:08:34.233 --> 01:08:38.433
Joe Smarro: But two, I really wanted the book to be a resource for people who maybe their
01:08:38.433 --> 01:08:40.213
Joe Smarro: agency, or maybe they're just
01:08:40.213 --> 01:08:43.113
Joe Smarro: even, I've had like stay-at-home moms read it and get value out of it.
01:08:43.333 --> 01:08:47.933
Joe Smarro: So maybe your agency or your employer can't afford to bring us out, cool.
01:08:48.173 --> 01:08:51.293
Joe Smarro: Go on Amazon, spend the 19 bucks, or if the money's a barrier,
01:08:51.713 --> 01:08:54.833
Joe Smarro: Reach out to me, connect with me on social media and say, hey,
01:08:54.853 --> 01:08:57.313
Joe Smarro: Joe, I would love the book, but I can't afford it. I'm gonna send it to you
01:08:57.313 --> 01:08:58.433
Joe Smarro: for free if that's what you want.
01:08:58.613 --> 01:09:04.473
Joe Smarro: And then I'm working on the audio book right now and it should be done here very soon.
01:09:04.493 --> 01:09:06.813
Joe Smarro: I've just gotta read my last chapter because I'm doing it myself.
01:09:07.073 --> 01:09:10.413
Joe Smarro: So I gotta read my last chapter, get it edited, and then get it through the
01:09:10.413 --> 01:09:15.893
Joe Smarro: ACX checks, and it'll be on Audible or wherever the audio books are that you listen to.
01:09:16.033 --> 01:09:20.013
Joe Smarro: So we're getting close, but I just, I wanted that book to be a resource for
01:09:20.013 --> 01:09:25.093
Joe Smarro: people that can't take our training and I wanted it to just be another like
01:09:25.093 --> 01:09:29.953
Joe Smarro: legacy token for my children or long after I'm gone books or something that
01:09:29.953 --> 01:09:31.073
Joe Smarro: just kind of stay around forever.
01:09:32.095 --> 01:09:39.955
Kevin Lowe: Yeah, man, I love it so much. Joe, man, you are the boost of positivity that I know I needed today.
01:09:40.195 --> 01:09:46.235
Kevin Lowe: I can only imagine the person listening that they needed, whether they realized they needed it or not.
01:09:46.415 --> 01:09:51.275
Kevin Lowe: By now, they realize, I know I couldn't live without it. And you,
01:09:51.395 --> 01:09:53.835
Kevin Lowe: man, you're an awesome guy.
01:09:54.075 --> 01:09:58.335
Kevin Lowe: And more than anything, I love the way that your story is going.
01:09:58.615 --> 01:10:03.815
Kevin Lowe: The fact of you choosing you, you choosing to live, to thrive,
01:10:03.815 --> 01:10:08.195
Kevin Lowe: and to use what you've gone through to give back and help others.
01:10:08.195 --> 01:10:11.455
Kevin Lowe: I think it's an absolute beautiful story.
01:10:11.695 --> 01:10:14.055
Kevin Lowe: It's been an honor getting to have you on the podcast.
01:10:14.275 --> 01:10:17.515
Joe Smarro: Thank you, Kevin. I really appreciate you sharing your audience with me and
01:10:17.515 --> 01:10:20.435
Joe Smarro: for your incredible questions and the conversation.
01:10:20.875 --> 01:10:22.815
Joe Smarro: Eternally grateful to you, brother. So thank you.
01:10:23.155 --> 01:10:29.595
Kevin Lowe: Oh, man, you are welcome. And for you listening today, I hope that you've taken
01:10:29.595 --> 01:10:32.355
Kevin Lowe: something away today that you can implement in your own life.
01:10:32.975 --> 01:10:37.055
Kevin Lowe: Obviously, I want you to be entertained, but more so, I want this podcast to
01:10:37.055 --> 01:10:39.455
Kevin Lowe: mean something to you, to do something for you.
01:10:39.995 --> 01:10:44.435
Kevin Lowe: And maybe the biggest thing is that maybe there's somebody in your life that
01:10:44.435 --> 01:10:46.915
Kevin Lowe: you could think could really benefit from this.
01:10:47.055 --> 01:10:50.615
Kevin Lowe: Go ahead and share today's episode with them. That would mean the world to me.
01:10:50.815 --> 01:10:53.695
Kevin Lowe: And I know in turn, it will mean the world to them.
01:10:53.955 --> 01:10:57.935
Kevin Lowe: So until next time, I'm of course your host, Kevin Lowe. And this was another
01:10:57.935 --> 01:11:00.195
Kevin Lowe: episode of Grit, Grace, & Inspiration!
01:11:00.080 --> 01:11:33.022
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