Our next guest is Dr. Maria Serrano from Miami Dade County Animal Services. Thank you for being here and welcome to The Junction.

Thank you for having me. It's amazing to be here.

What is your background and how does it involve the field of forensic?

Um, so I am a veterinarian. I have been a veterinarian for close to 20 years, which is a long time. Um, but I recently were not recently, uh, 15 years ago, I became a shelter veterinarian. Um, and, um, so it kind of like just fell into my lap, um, because I work at a high intake municipal shelter. We're considered animal control. And so, um, we kind of respond to, uh, complaints of cruelty and neglect. And, um, things like that. And so, um, as these cases started coming around, I started trying to just get a lot more training and just understand more about forensics. And so, um, I started doing forensics in, um, probably 2014. And so we've been doing them since then. I think we're getting better as we learn a little bit more and get a little bit more expert in the field. And it's, it's really amazing. It's a new field, so it's, it's great to, you know,

I enjoy seeing how, how quickly it seems to be developing and growing and how it's nearing like the human forensic field, right? Like a lot of the advancements.

Absolutely, and it's just amazing to see it. And we have a program that we, um, participate or training police officers. And so a few years ago, the, the, or the common response from them was like, Oh, well, we're It's just a dog, um, or I don't know how to handle cases like this and, and after giving them a little bit of training, um, and just letting them be kind of relaxed with being, this is a crime and you respond to it as a crime, as any other crime, a human crime or any other crime. And so after that, we've actually increased our caseload because they are more comfortable identifying animal cruelty and responding to animal cruelty.

So animals are a different type of evidence, right, but they are still evidence. How is an animal going to be different from just regular evidence of a crime?

So an animal is a living evidence that changes by the minute. And so it's important to see it that way and just address it as soon as possible. So address it with priority. Um, we want to make sure that we, um, document. everything about it as soon as we receive it so that we can begin treatment as soon as possible and obviously alleviate Pain and suffering related to why the animal is in in our care actually.

In different states and different even jurisdictions, there's different rules as far as who can do these examinations and when they should be done. So in your opinion who should be performing the examinations on the animal on the animal evidence? And when should these examinations be performed?

So I think responding to these cases is a team approach and so investigators have a huge role in helping us collect evidence and helping us get to the bottom of the story. But veterinarians play a huge role in just putting their expertise and their knowledge and and what they see in these cases. So the veterinarian should be doing the exams, but we need a lot of support from our support staff, which is in this case investigators, animal welfare officers. We have a forensic assistant and she's amazing and she really, really helps me just log all the evidence and just make sure that everything that we need to present this case in court is put together.

I feel that it's so important to be present there at the beginning, or what we would call a field exam, because sometimes when you get information after the fact, or you're looking at an animal many days later, there's going to be some, some changes, right? So, what would be the difference as far as, you know, if you have the opportunity to do a field exam, versus if you're just doing an exam after the fact?

That would be the best case scenario to be able to respond to the field. Um, we always recommended, um, when I talk about forensics with my students, I always say, if you can absolutely be there. Um, it's definitely better to have firsthand experience to be able to collect the evidence yourself or see the evidence yourself. Um, but it's not always something that can be done and not all teams have veterinarians deploy with them. And so I think that it is important to have, um, those investigators understand that they are going to be your eyes on that scene and on that field, and then to teach them how to preserve that evidence as much as possible so that when the animal is transported wherever the veterinarian is, we can still have that evidence. So things like, for example, putting paper bags in their, in their paws to be able to just maintain that evidence, um, um, things like that. And of course triaging those animals in a way that the animals that need immediate care, um, receive immediate care, um, sometimes a little bit of it in the field if you have, um, veterinary technicians or, or even if, if your state allows that, because each state differences a little bit in who can do what to animals, um, so that's something to definitely Keep in mind.

A lot of people think that you have to be a forensic veterinarian to be able to do a forensic exam on an animal, and that's not quite true because a veterinarian practitioner can do a forensic examination basically, I mean, it's just using veterinary medicine in legal cases. But there's going to be a little bit of differences as far as the way that things, the information and the records are kept. So what are going to be the differences between a forensic report versus what a general practitioner would do with a pet that they're seeing? Okay.

So I always tell my students, like, you are an expert, you are a veterinarian, you went to veterinary school, you were taught exactly the same thing, everybody was taught exactly the same thing about medicine, so anybody can, that has that expertise, can testify in court. I think forensic veterinarians have, um, just more experience seeing these cases and also have a little bit more experience in when it comes to testifying in court. Um, but anyone that is a clinician is able to make, uh, those exams. The difference is how we document all of those findings. Um, so in a regular general practice, we would say something like, you know, this organ system was within normal limits. In a forensic exam, we're going to just go through every possible thing and that could be positive or negative about the findings and just record them. So we're going to make, uh, just a more in depth, um, exam. So we're going to say something like, you know, I did not hear a murmur. Um, the rhythm of the heart was normal. The, lung sounds were, um, normal with no, you know, in the four quadrants of the chest. So, so you're telling the court, I listened to all of the quadrants of the chest and this is what I found. We're going to talk about all of our findings and just put them all in in paper so that you can explain that better. We're also going to take photos, which is something that we don't take in general practice, so we're going to take photos of the animal in all of its views so that we identify the animal better, and then photos of the wounds and descriptions. So I always tell my students, you're going to want to describe, um, the, the wounds with like specific terms, like an abrasion, uh, you know, and then how long the abrasion is, uh, we're going to give it, um, points, uh, anatomical points. So it's, uh, five inches, uh, from the spine or, you know, things like that so that we can like just localize things a lot better. Um, and, and then, um, having them in photo, it makes it a lot easier to just preserve the evidence for a long time. But I think, um, anybody that is a good clinician and that is able to document, um, findings should be able to be an expert in court.

So kind of along those lines, are you going to approach every case the same or is it going to depend on the nature of the suspected crime?

So, it will absolutely depend on the nature of the crime and what history we got. It also depends on what kind of resources you have available, because it's different if you have, you know, a forensic budget for, like in our case, Miami Dade Animal Services has a forensic budget, so we're able to process cases a little bit different. There's other vets that will, you know, Um, not have, uh, you know, a huge budget for those things. So you're going to have to rely more on the clinical findings that the veterinarian has. So, um, if you have an individual case, like a dog that was neglected, um, you're going to have that animal or that case going to be approached in a lot more detail. Um, you're going to follow that case. You're going to, um, Um, take, you know, more diagnostics, you're going to take x rays. An animal that was suspected of being abused, you know, could have certain, uh, fractures, for example, that indicate that the animal was, um, hit multiple times at different times throughout its life. Um, and then if we have, uh, you know, a case, a hoarding case of, you know, 250 animals, um, you're going to have to have a, set baseline of what you're going to do so that you're, you're not starting with like super in depth and the first one and then nothing on the last one. Right. So you're going to say, okay, we're going to take one photo, um, of the actual animal, and then we're going to take any pertinent photos of injuries, but we're not going to go like all the angles of all the animals. Um, or you're going to say, we're going to do, um, Um, a quick, you know, PCV, total solids on everybody. We're not going to do full blood work, things like that. Because, um, you want it to be consistent throughout the whole case, so that when you present it in court, there's not any, um, inconsistencies that will allow, um, holes in your case.

Sometimes people think of animals, for instance, emaciated animals, that it's always starvation, right? It's like the gut reaction. Uh, and that's not always the cause, so there are sometimes reasons for these things to happen, but then there are also reasons that perhaps are still animal cruelty because the owner did not seek care. So, what are the ways that we're going to be able to demonstrate if, uh, if an animal that's emaciated emaciated or extremely thin is animal cruelty and neglect or not?

So, um, not all animals that are emaciated are starved. Absolutely. And so in our exam, we're going to be looking for, um, signs of debilitating diseases that are causing this animal to look like this. Um, so it's super easy to jump to conclusions and we actually are, our intake, um, Um, you know, it happens often on intake that they're like, Oh my gosh, this dog was starved, right? For sure. And so, yeah, initially you see this dog that is in terrible condition and that is absolutely one possibility and it, we see it often. Um, but we also see often animals that have cancer and animals that have just other conditions, um, that don't allow, um, proper, uh, utilization of the food in the gut, for example. And so those animals will also look pretty starved. Um, so the biggest sign of an animal starved is that it will recover within weeks and will gain weight and will look so much better. So that is the most compelling thing in court. When you have an animal that you took pictures today and it looks, you know, skin and bones, and then in two weeks, um, it's gained 15 pounds and it has just a new semblance to it. And so that is the main, um, evidence that you have in court. Um, but we do x rays to make sure that we don't see any masses. For example, we, if an animal has chronic diarrhea, we're going to, um, just try to, um, start with a fecal and then we're going to work our way up to try to find why it is that this animal is having these clinical signs that are causing, um, the, the condition that we see.

Once you have accumulated all your information, so you have your exam, you have follow ups, you have diagnostics and all, and all of that, how do you prepare your report?

Um, so I use a, a template that I have, um, and so initially it is, um, we comp, we compile it. We gather all of the history information. So we normally won't have a medical history on the animal, but we'll have a history of the event. And so, um, it'll be part of the investigators notes. It'll be, um, the investigators photos of the scene, uh, any video that they took, and then the police reports, of what happened. And so I'll put that in my, my small, um, like summary of what got to me. Um, and then we'll do all of the physical, findings, physical exam findings. Um, and then we'll put our pictures that, that will, um, just kind of correlate what those findings were. Um, so, you know, dehydration, um, the body condition of the dog, any parasites, any infestations, um, any results of blood work. Um, we will sometimes, um, refer some cases to a forensic radiologist. So any report from the radiologist, um, things like that. So we'll put it all together. And then at the end, I will have a, a summary or conclusions. And that's where I kind of like talk about those findings. What does that mean for the animal? What does that mean for the welfare of the animal? If I, I think that, how long I think the animal has been, um, undergoing these, these conditions. Um, and, and I try to use words like, that are in, I, I work in Florida, so, that are in the code of Florida. So, um, Words like, um, this animal has been subjected to unnecessary pain and suffering because that is exactly the words that are on the Florida statutes. Um, and so that is really helpful when you're in court, um, presenting, uh, these cases.

One of the things that you mentioned earlier is about how all veterinarians are prepared like to be a witness, like they can be a witness because they have the education, but there is a reluctance of veterinarians to become involved in cruelty cases and legal proceedings. So what would you say to a veterinarian to help encourage them? to step forward and enact as an expert witness in an animal cruelty case.

So I would say, first of all, you are an expert and you should be proud to have all this knowledge that you acquired and expensive knowledge too, that you acquired throughout the years. So first of all, you are an expert. Um, and second, you, you are the best that these animals have to advocate for them. Um, you have all of the information and you have the power to be able to speak. Speak up for them. Um, one thing that, you know, you, you need to look at your statutes. Each state has different, um, you know, some, some states, uh, the veterinarian is immune from any prosecution. Some states, um, the, the veterinarian is actually mandatory reporter. So you have to report any animal cruelty. So, so, uh, just get that information and knowledge so that you are more comfortable to, with what it is, um, that your state requires or allows. Um, And then just do it because we are, you know, this is where we came into this field for. We came into this field to, to protect them and to just be their voice. And so, um, I feel it feels, even though it can feel a little bit like nerve wracking initially and defense attorneys, you know, it's nothing personal. It's their job. They are there to. to get their person out, you know, but it is your job to, to be objective and to just speak of the evidence that you saw in the case. I normally, when I, when I'm going to go to testify, I'll go in the bathroom, um, because I get nervous and I I'll like be sweating and I'll be like, I did not commit this crime. I did not commit this crime. So just to just like, kind of like reassure myself, I am a witness. I am just here to speak of what I know. You're not on the stand. Right. I'm not on the stand. I'm here to just speak my knowledge, speak what I saw, and speak the truth, and that's the truth. And so, they can refute it as many times, but the truth is the truth, and it's what actually will make it a point for these animals to get justice.

Excellent. Well, thank you so much for being here, and thank you for everything that you do. Thank you. Thank you for this interview.

Thank you so much for interviewing me. It's been great.