Hello and welcome. It is episode 25 of
the 90 Day Website Mastery podcast. This
is the companion to the 90 Day Website
Mastery program. As I said, we're on
episode 25. We wanted to find a way to
continue to share more advice and
insights about making your website work
harder and for you to feel proud about
your website again. And with my co-host
Pascal Fintoni, good to have you back
Pascal.
Thank you very much and you know what's
exciting So not only are we here to
provide value and practical advice to our
audience, but this is also good for you
and I to catch up from time to time and
just, you know, find a way to summarize
what we've been up to in terms of our
work with, in terms of speaking at
events, by the Wonders website, internet
and content marketing, in terms of our
consultancy and more. Because it changes
quite rapidly. And I don't mean to say
the technology, but actually the approach
and mindset to get better results and to
be proud of your website. You know,
there's always a movement forward that I
think this show is helping us capture.
I see this as a therapy session. It's a
place for me to be able to think and
reflect. And you were saying that there's
so much change and it's not just tools,
but the tools are just crazy at the
moment. I mean, there's just so many. But
as you say, the mindset and the way
communication needs to adapt for
different generations. It, yeah, I see
this as a bit of a therapy session in,
in, in, in being able to reflect on
what's going on. So yeah, I really enjoy
it. And we've got 4 segments in every
show. So we've got the, you ask, we
answer where we have a look at something
that perhaps a client has said to us or
something that we've spotted or perhaps
you as our listeners as our viewers have
asked us a question and we dissect it.
We've got the website stories where we
found an article or a video or a podcast
where we discuss and debate. We also have
the website engine room, which is an app
that Pascal and myself, 2 apps in total,
come up with to make your life easier as
a website manager and website content
creator ultimately helping you ensure
that you are feeling more proud of your
website or even proud of your website
again. And lastly we have the call to
action the website call to action where
we give you 1 change or adjustment that
you should be making to your website
right now. So we will start with You Ask,
We Answer, and I will hand over to Pascal
in just 1 second. ♪♪
Thank you very much, Jonny, for the
introduction. So in You Ask, We Answer,
we usually pick a question that perhaps
we had during an event that we attended,
maybe during a one-to-one consultancy.
And this is very much the case in this 1.
I was with a client about a week ago or
so, and we were talking about the
relationship between social media,
between websites, and YouTube, and Google
Business Profiling, all those kind of
crazy ecosystem. And this is pretty much
what I heard, and I've heard this so many
times. Is it true that you get penalized
on social media if you share a link to
your website on the post? And the
reaction was, so what's the point of
social media and how can I get more
traffic to my website from LinkedIn,
Facebook or X? What's see you Johnny Ross
penalties or just a myth?
Well, the, the point of social media is
certainly not to get traffic on your
website. I'm afraid to tell you, if
you're watching or listening right now,
don't see social media as the answer.
It's part of the, the story is part of
the solution, but it's where it's the
conversation, the clue is in the word
social. It's a conversation, it's a place
to create a community to have that
conversation. I think I'm a touch torn on
this but I think that is more myth than
black and white fact I think it's about
really considering the behavior of people
and how they interact with posts. So
what's been said for many, for a number
of years now is if you put a link on that
post, the algorithm is less likely to
show that post because LinkedIn don't
want to send you outside of the
ecosystem. Ecosystem. And I think the
element of truth there is that users,
people, people that follow you are less
likely to click a link on a post unless
there's a really good reason. And I think
that behavior has taught LinkedIn and
also made, brought this conversation to
light. So in terms of, does it penalize
you? Well, I don't know how much it
affects the algorithm. Do people click it
only if it's very compelling? So I think
there is an element of bearing in mind
why you're putting the link and what the
strength of the link is. And likewise,
it's a bit like whether you should be
uploading a video directly to LinkedIn or
whether you should be sharing a YouTube
video. For many years, people have been
saying, well, if you share a YouTube
video, LinkedIn is less likely to share
it on the algorithm because they don't
want to send people off. But I think
ultimately, if it's a native video on the
platform, it automatically plays straight
away, it's mobile friendly, compared to
YouTube where you've got to click and
then it sends you to an app and it gets
you to try and sign in, try and sell you
a monthly fee and all of that stuff. And
I think that in itself is off-putting. So
I don't know if I've given you a definite
answer here, Pascal, but you've got to
have a compelling reason as to why you're
putting the link there in the first
place.
And for me, I join you in that because
it's back to the many debates I have with
other social media practitioners about
causation and correlation. I think you've
got to be very, very careful not to
conclude something based on what you can
observe. So I think you're right.
Ultimately, if I am on LinkedIn and I've
chosen to spend a quarter of an hour to
go through my feed, I will not
essentially then click on the link to
kind of jeopardize the time that I want
to spend on LinkedIn unless the
invitation is very, very compelling. So
people could ask, well, what do you mean,
Pascal? I'd say, well, instead of saying
to somebody, hey, I've written a new blog
post, here's a link, go check it out.
Perhaps you could word it in a more
conversational manner, back to your
point, Ernst, saying, I've written this
article, but I'm unsure whether I've got
it right, or I would welcome some
different opinions or I'm lacking data
and so you want to engage people into a
conversation in a way where we're saying
go check it out because I'm not sure I've
got it completely right or you've got
something that is almost premium. I've
got a brand new ebook, I've got a new
webinar series available for free and so
on. So it's something that has to
essentially be more attractive than
staying on LinkedIn, Facebook, X,
Pinterest, TikTok and so on. And that to
me is the key. So when, I think we missed
the appearance of penalty. I don't
imagine that people at, let's say,
LinkedIn, which was the question I was
asked, spend time in the office thinking,
how can we punish people who are trying
to, you know, bring value to their
community? But here it is. Typically,
when you have a link in a post, a post is
very short and there's nothing else to go
with it. So what there is as a real kind
of value indicator is dwell time,
particularly with mobile phone users. So
if somebody sees a short, sharp
announcement that there is new content to
check out or an event to join and it hits
a hyperlink to Eventbrite, they're going
to pass very quickly. They may even make
a mental note to look it up again and of
course they won't. So the dwell time is
going to be so brief that it sends a
signal to the platform that this is of no
interest to you. And we know enough about
the behavior of LinkedIn, I'm guessing,
Meta, and others are doing the same,
which is, you know, they do a test. So
if, Johnny, you publish something on
LinkedIn now, a small percentage of your
network is going to see it. And if
they're reacting to whether it's
positive, dwell time and a few likes,
comments and shares, then more of your
network will see it. So the penalty is
more about the lack of interaction with a
post that appears to have little value.
But I don't believe that there is a rule
that says, if there is a hyperlink, kill
the post. I think it's more the nature of
the post that comes with the hyperlink is
usually not in line with the kind of
content people find interesting.
Yeah, yeah. And I think that you've just
mentioned for me a bit of a golden
nugget, that dwell time. If you can
create something, because people don't
always like or comment or share, but they
are interested in stalking, they are
interested in reading things if it's of
interest and if you can get that dwell
time I've seen many experiments were just
giving the platform an element of. I've
spent time looking at this and all of a
sudden you start seeing a lot more of it.
So focus on, as always, high quality
content that's gonna engage with the
audience that you're actually wanting to
engage with. And that is more the secret
to whether a link should be in the post
or not.
Yeah, and for me, play the game. Put a
video natively, put the link. Play the
game, put a carousel and put the link. So
you're gonna get the dwell time, write a
long form thought piece and put the link.
You know what I mean? So do it properly
as opposed to a short, sharp announcement
that almost looked like a semi advert of
sort.
Absolutely. Let's move on to our next
segment, which is website stories.
So for episode 25, we've chosen an
article, Johnny, from CMSY.com. They've
been on the show before. And this is
written by digital marketing expert and
freelance writer, Shetra Ayya. And this
is about 5 SEO strategies to embrace in
2024. And I have to tell you, SEO was my
first kind of entry into the world of
training and consultancy, and I'm a
sucker. If I see things to do with SEO
strategies and things that can help us
think about what it means today. I'm all
for it. So I would encourage people to
follow the hyperlink in the show notes,
and what I'm gonna give you, everyone,
and Johnny, it's a summary of the key
elements. And I'm gonna end with a
question, which is all to do with the
weather, 20, 30 years later, indeed, the
acronym SEO needs to be given a whole new
meaning. But the the article is very well
written, there's a lot of quotes from
expert, this is very well researched by
Chitra and I really really think it's a
great example of what we were talking
about earlier, about how to get social
media engagement. So the whole basis is
that the function of search engine
optimization, whether it's a full-time
occupation or 1 of the plates spinning,
you know, for as part of your busy week,
has really moved on from researching
keywords and talking keywords on the
page. And this is really now a lot more
about attending the audience, their
intent, and also understanding the entire
spectrum of questions and topics that
would arise during the client's research
and selection process. So it's a lot more
interesting I think than just I have
something to sell, what are the keywords
or long tail keywords to try and get
buyers. You know I think we want to
attract interest from the early stage of
research. The other thing that is
fascinating to me and that was shown in
the article is that the function also
needs to move away from just search
engines. People now look at information
in so many different ways. And they were
saying is that you want to start to have
a strategy that is multi-platform,
TikTok, Amazon, Reddit. If you're into
the industry, Skyscanner, if you're into
food and drink, where do they go for
their recipes and so on. So you have to
have a multi-platform and a content
ecosystem fully mapped out, which leads
therefore for you to have understood the
topic clusters, the hub, and of course,
what is being called rather grandly, the
semantic search, this idea of search
finding the context of location, intent,
and so on. 1 that surprised me, because
my position is that it's happening
already, they were saying, now, those in
charge of SEO should collaborate with
other teams and departments. And I was
like, well, surely they are already, but
perhaps you'd correct me, I'm joining
with your own research, but saying, you
know, talk to people in sales, product
development, PR, customer service, and so
on. I said, well, that seems like an
obvious advice, but why not? And what
they were saying is that those in charge
of SEO should study extensively the
search engine results pages and literally
explain to their colleagues have you seen
what's happening right now have you seen
the way Google lays things down obviously
the different panels and that kind of
things, but also of course the forums and
more. And you've got to educate and
inform yourself about the impact of
AI-powered search results. And you and I
have discussed it actually in previous
results. So what is happening to Google,
to Bing, to Yahoo, many others in their
attempt, of course, to keep their
searches happy. And that layout, as I
would call it, is changing so
dramatically that it's having an impact
on all of us. But really, this article is
wonderful because it suggests that those
3 letters are hiding actually a far more
exciting and interesting function to
begin with, but it may well be that it is
time to change the meaning. But before I
give you my suggestion of what SEO should
mean nowadays, Your reaction to the
advice given by this article?
You say that there's more excitement
behind SEO and what it stands for.
Actually, that technical SEO gets me
really excited. Whether that's geeky or
not, I really like the technical side and
playing the game of climbing that ladder.
However, the point you're making was not
that. The point you're making is so true
that it's we need to you know we need to
be thinking about personalization, we
need to be thinking about user
experience, integration, emerging
technologies, all you know the AI, the
machine learning and even sustainability
to some extent. So it's about it
encompasses so much more than pleasing
Google or pleasing yeah even even
pleasing TikTok even what I agree in
terms of the platform I'm terrible for
using the word Google all the time, but I
must admit whenever I use that word, I
actually mean any platform because you're
optimizing on whatever the platform is,
even if that's face to face in a room. It
doesn't really matter. It's about how you
optimize to find clients, to keep clients
and to find clients ultimately. And so it
encompasses so much more. I think it's
important to definitely have a mindset of
moving away from that traditional, for
example, keyword density. I've got, it's
a bit frustrating, I've still got a
client that is, oh, whatever I say and
whatever I, hopefully they're not
listening and they won't realize who I'm
talking about but If they are hello But
they're forever asking me specifically on
that keyword density and And I'm like,
will you stop it? Stop being so
prescriptive. Times have moved on way
past that. And it's, yes, of course,
there has to be context, there has to be
understanding, but it's more about the
engagement, the value you're adding. Is
it helpful? Is it resourceful? Way more.
So what SEO becomes, I'm not sure, I
can't predict the future, but for sure we
need to take into account way more, way
more.
Yeah, and I love the way it begins, this
article, this idea of it is your role to
educate your colleagues in a way, and by
extension, you and I are clients, that
you have to cover the full spectrum of
questions and topics that a future
customer is likely to use, whether they
use voice or they use typing on the
keyboard, or even just the prompts
offered by the search engine. So you and
I talked about, look what's happening on
Google when they say people also asked,
you know, and then that panel of
question, you have to have that covered
on your website. And I said to my
clients, and don't worry that others have
done it already. What matters is that you
are not covering those questions, you
know, for, for your customers, But time
is against us. So here's my kind of
proposition to you today about SEO. I
believe that, bear in mind the
conversation and this article, we need to
move on from search engine optimization
and actually get your colleagues who are
not marketers excited about search
experience optimization. And as a result
of which, then you move away from that
only thinking about Google and Bing and
the others, although people always think
about Google. And then it plays to this
idea of it's wherever your customers is
currently gaining information. You know,
the forum, the local business club,
newsletter, that kind of thing. You know,
they are searching for information and
your job is to optimize the experience
and for you to become their favorite. So
here we go. SEO nowadays equals search
experience optimization.
Perhaps you've just coined the new
phrase.
I'm not sure. I'll check it. And if I
have, it was done on episode 25.
And all credits to Pascal Fintoni. Yeah
it we definitely need to reflect on what
SEO is all about and move away from this
potentially way too prescriptive. That
was website stories, let's move to our
next segment which is the website engine
room.
Now In this segment of the show we choose
1 app each, a software solution, maybe a
piece of kit that can make life easier as
a website manager and website content
creator. And of course excitedly, this
being number 25, that means that we've
reached now 50 apps and online solution
which is pretty incredible and there will
be a very special announcement very soon
about this. Jonny what is your selection
for today?
Well today's is a tiny bit of a naughty
1. LinkedIn certainly if they were
listening wouldn't be agreeing to it but
it's called Linked Helper and it's about
automating automation on LinkedIn and now
I'm not suggesting that your entire
profile should be fully automated but
what I am suggesting is that in this day
and age of AI workflows things that
you're doing on a regular basis things
repeated tasks can easily be done with
something like Linked Helper. It's a
great way to automate DMs, to automate
responders, to automate invitations, to
export contacts, to be able to integrate
with your CRM, to be able to integrate
with auto email workflows. So there's a
lot of integration that you can have and
it's a very easy tool to use once you
understand the UX of it. It's a great way
to automate the work but also to
ultimately boost your profile and create
conversations. So there is sort of a
caution on there that you've got to be
careful how you use it and not overuse it
in terms of LinkedIn's guidelines. It's
about following LinkedIn's guidelines but
it's about using the tool to automate
some of the manual processes that you
might be doing and to and also not to
just blanket the same message to every
single person but actually to be really
quite clever in how you use it so and
that comes down to to really segmenting
your potential audience and your
potential clients. So I'm talking about
finding a handful of people, not hundreds
of thousands of people. And that handful
really sending a very, very clear,
relevant message that's going to
ultimately, hopefully engage. So LinkedIn
Helper, it's a tiny bit of a naughty 1,
as I said, LinkedIn don't really like it,
let's be honest, but it's a great way to
automate some of those workflows.
Thank you very much. So you will recall
that in episode 24, we spoke a lot about
YouTube and some of the changes they're
making and, and that, you know, it is
part and parcel of a website experience
for someone to watch a video that you
either produced, co-produced, or maybe
you were a guest on a webinar and you
want to embed that onto your blog or even
landing pages. And I've had some feedback
from clients saying that on occasion,
they copied and pasted the URL that you
get from YouTube, Johnny. But then when
they look at it on their laptop or mobile
phones, sometime the video doesn't appear
to be full screen or sometime it's too
big and you can't see all of it and so
on. So there can be for some website,
depending on the coding, some issue
around the embed. So I have a solution
for people. It's a platform called
embedresponsively.com where you copy and
paste the URL of a YouTube video. In
fact, they offer other platforms like
Vimeo and more. And it gives you a code
you can copy and paste into your CMS that
would give you that responsive video. So
it would resize itself and position
itself really neatly no matter the device
your customers are using. So it's an
extra little step that's gonna probably
help you out from a user experience and
first impression which are ever so
important. A little additional tip I want
to give to people as well as a reminder
is within the URL that you're going to
get and the code, there's the address of
the YouTube video, you'll recognize it
very, very well. If you add the following
at the end of that web address for the
YouTube video, which is question mark,
R-E-L equals 0 at the end of that URL,
more often than not, you will avoid
essentially at the end of the video being
played to show related content from maybe
the competition or frankly some
completely unread content but that are
not even a business like and so on and
what you'll find is that if you add the
question mark rel equals 0 at the end of
your YouTube URL it will show videos from
your channel more often than from other
channels that could be also a neat trick
but the most important thing is to make
sure that your YouTube videos is
responsive no matter the device and no
matter the platform used by your
customers.
Fantastic, thank you very much Pascal. So
as you said that is now 50 tools or apps
we've mentioned on the website engine
room. I imagine that we're going to do
something with that, Pascal.
We are indeed. You're going to have to
wait for episode 26 for the big
announcement.
And with that note, we'll move to our
last section, which of course is the
website call to action.
This is about the 1 change, 1 adjustment
that can make really your website work
harder for you. So Johnny, what is your
recommendation for today?
AI chatbot. I'm going to just dive in. I
think it's about embracing it and it's
about going out researching, finding a
chatbot that fits your business. There's
so many out there right now and there's
good and bad, don't get me wrong, there's
definitely good and bad, but the ability
for you to be able to respond to
potential clients or even existing
clients in a very quick, timely manner to
be able to signpost them, to be able to
listen to them, to be able to take
contact details to ultimately create a
lead I think is totally worth it. So you
know the caveat here is that it does need
some testing, it needs some trialing, you
need to you to really test it, you need
to really think about it. But you know if
you've for example if you've got a
knowledge base already and you can share
that knowledge base with the AI tool.
It's gonna fully be able to start
answering questions I'm seeing this in in
so many well-known brands this I said
good examples and bad examples but you
don't know what it's like until you start
trying it. So my advice as a 1 quick
change or adjustment is to start
researching a couple of different AI
tools that can act as a chatbot on your
website and have that sort of live stroke
AI chat on the website to ultimately
enhance engagement and to be ultimately
really quick and responsive.
And I think for me, there's 2 kind of use
cases. There's 1 where you have this
issue of abundance of content. Let's say
you have a very, very busy blog or maybe
you've been running a podcast videos for
a while. And actually as a element of
customer service, customer care, the AI
chatbot could help me spot the articles
of the podcast that is most relevant to
me right now, based on my query. And then
the other, the flip side is essentially
the FAQs of sort. Now you've got to be
careful there's plenty of examples out
there of brands who've got it completely
wrong where it becomes an irritant as
opposed to anything that supports you. So
the testing and walk into the shoes of
your customers is important but where
there is choice, where there is decision
to be made, this is where the chatbot can
come in and and you should also lean on
that and make sure that it becomes almost
like a mascot to the business. So don't
do what people have done which is to try
and lie and pretend that it was a real
person talking to you, it's pointless.
Announce it, People are becoming more and
more familiar with it. But every visitor
on a website with a chatbot will also
have had a bad experience. So how can you
stand out? Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. What is your website
called? So mine actually, I must thank a
customer of mine because they learned a
very, very painful lesson by not doing
enough prep in and around attending a
conference. So as part of that content
strategy, which is actually something
that I recommended they did, they wanted
to do a series of roundup articles about,
you know, the different talks and
different keynotes addresses and so on.
But they kind of went to the conference
without a plan. And that is really
tricky, because that meant that when they
came back, the content creation bit, if
you like, of a roundup articles journey
took far, far too long. So my advice
would be research your industry events,
particularly those of interest to your
audience. So be careful not to go to a
conference of interest to you write a
roundup that your customers couldn't care
less about. So look at the next 6 months,
look at industry events that will be of
interest to your audience, select the 1
you're gonna go to and plan in advance
how you're gonna go about doing the
roundups and even start to do some draft
versions. You can come up with the
titles, you can start to run the mini
biographies of the speakers, you can do
the research of photography, you can do
so much preps. And then when you get to
the event, you can use some of the
techniques that we explored on website
culture action, use audio recording, use
AI transcription, do a number of things
to make sure that those event roundups
are not too punitive. Therefore, once
again, you have to prep and prep and prep
to make sure that your content creation
is very, very seamless and there's little
friction as possible.
And that, for me, is 1 of the biggest
things that builds trust. So trust is
what people make decisions on, whether
they're going to buy from you or not. And
a lot of people make assumptions that
build trust and buy you, you have to be
real, you have to be authentic. You have
to be genuine. But, but the simple fact
that you're talking about an industry
event that's coming up that you're
potentially going to and you're doing a
bit of a roundup, people make a huge
amount of assumptions around that. They
in terms of your network, in terms of
your capability, in terms of your
knowledge and why not ride on that wave
and build that trust. So I think it's a
brilliant idea that ticks so many boxes,
not just the content marketing box and
the sort of keeping relevant, but the
building trust. So yeah, I like that,
Pascal.
Thank you very much.
That was episode 25 of the 90-day website
mastery podcast. That's it for today. The
audio companion of the 90-day website
mastery program. For more information
please visit 90daymarketingmastery.com
and you will be able to book your
discovery call with either myself or
Pascal. We'll be back with another
episode. In the meantime, feel free to
send your questions, share your preferred
app and links to your website. Once
you've made the changes we spoke about,
we'd love to give you a shout out. But
that's it for now. Bye everyone. And
we'll leave you with a fun video and
audio montage whilst you go through your
notes and actions. Thanks so much for
joining. Please, please, please if this
was helpful, if this was of interest, not
only tell your friends but click that
follow or subscribe button, whatever
platform you're on, because that is a way
that makes us feel like we're making a
difference. And whilst we love being
here, and I was talking about it being a
bit of a therapy session, Just the fact
of seeing our numbers increase, the
power, I don't think I can put into words
what that would achieve for us. So please
do like, follow, share and subscribe. And
we'll see you all soon. And I'll leave
you with this audio and video montage.
Take care. Cheers Pascal.
Bye bye.
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