Welcome to the What to Read Next Podcast, the podcast that topples your TBR. And today we have our resident fiction book recommender. Laura, welcome back.

Laura, I love being on your podcast. I think this is my third time maybe.

Yeah, there time. I think

Maybe it's fourth.

Yeah, I think so. We've been friends

I know.

since before the

Yeah.

since 2019. You're like a long time friend. We're books around friends. When I moved to Chicago, you were such, so much helpful, like connecting with people local and helping me just get through the pandemic time. So I am so, so grateful. And you have written books, you've written middle grade, but I love your literary fiction recommendations 'cause you actually give me books that I'm like, oh, I'm actually interested in

Oh, good. Good. Well, I love it when you have me on your podcast and it's such an honor to be here and. You know, that I gravitate towards literary fiction like you were just saying. And some of my books kind of tend to be darker. I always go for like really weighty books. But it's always a fun challenge, if you will, to be on your podcast because I really, it forces me to kind of think about different recommendations, you know, that your listeners are gonna wanna read. And so I take that on as like this personal challenge and it's really fun to come up. Come up with my list. And so today, sort of the hook that I'm gonna talk about today are six books that will break your heart. And I know that sounds really sad. But the key here is that they'll break your heart in the best way possible because there is like dysfunction and messy relationships, but. There's also tenderness and love and so much hope. And this may or may not be kind of a spoiler, but like they all end on a really high note, like they all end with joy and optimism. And I think that's important because I don't want. You know, your listeners to get bogged down and oh my God, these are so depressing and serious, because they really aren't they're beautiful books that will, I think, restore people's faith in humanity and love and connection.

Oh my God, I'm so excited for these recommendations. 'cause you just said, I don't like any sad

Yeah.

like people killing the character on the last

Right,

and not grieving the

right.

the character's death. I like book star, giving me some

Yeah.

some joy, because life is. Too

Yeah.

and it's too hard. So I want someone to

Yeah.

to sanity or just escape me to a possibility of a much better

Yeah,

we left it when we started.

that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, I like that.

get your recommendations.

Okay. I also will say before I jump into these, that all six of them, our new-ish releases, they all have come out in the last, I would say, year or two. So they should be, you know, they're fresh and relevant, but they also should be easy for your listeners to get I don't think they'll be too hard to get your hands on. And the other thing I wanna say is that all of them would make great book discussion groups. So if anyone out there is in a book club and is looking for a great option, any of these are gonna do the trick. So.

Oh, even better because we're always looking

Yeah.

recommendations. think after the pandemic, the post pandemic world has. Has seen a surge of And book community and connecting with other readers. You know, not only the pandemic gave us a community of readers and everyone's going back to reading, but now like we need to discuss, we need to talk about it, we need

Absolutely.

with other people, fan girl, and just have an Like I'm part of local book clubs and it's just been fine, but we're always on the lookout for next book recommendations. So I love

Good.

episode for it.

good. Okay. Also, I wanted to say that some of the authors I'm gonna talk about might be brand new to you and your listeners, which is awesome.

Yeah.

are a few that you will have already heard of. So I feel like I kind of have a nice, you know, spectrum here of authors. Maybe they're less well known, and then authors that are more well known. So. Hopefully I will meet everyone's needs through these six recommendations. Okay. ​So to kick us off, my first book that I wanna talk about is called A Winter's Rhyme by Carol Dunbar. So a winter's rhyme is this harrowing and emotional novel set in the Midwest. Which of course, you know, I live in the Midwest, so I'm a sucker for a good Midwest story. It centers on a 25-year-old veteran army mechanic named Mallory, and she's back from her tour of duty and she's trying to figure out what comes next for her in her life. And she's living with her new girlfriend, Andrea, and she's working overnights at a gas station store, which is great. The scenes at the gas station are spot on. So they're living together in Andrea's beautiful cabin, kind of off the grid. And it's this sanctuary for Mallory until Andrea's loving behavior begins to turn controlling and abusive. So Mallory, after a big fight, sort of escapes into the frigid night and. Alongside of the road, she stumbles into this teenage girl who is clearly injured and who's asking for help, and this teenage girl's name is Shea and Mallory sort of jumps headfirst into wanting to help Shea, but she quickly discovers that Shea is not the only one who needs saving. Spoiler alert, it's Mallory herself who needs. Saving. So this is a beautiful story of like sisterhood and second chances, and it's really about learning to love and stand up for yourself despite trauma and a rocky past. And it's Carol Dunbar's second novel and just like Her first, which is called The Net Beneath Us. It is lyrical, it is lush, it has an amazing sense of place. It's all about this isolated rural living. And there is such redemption. And like I said, it's such hope in this story. So I think it is just exquisite literary fiction. It's really beautiful. Also science lesson for the day, I just have to say this, but when I talk about a winter's rhyme is actually spelled RINE in this case, in the title. It's not R-H-Y-M-E. And I did some research rhyme ice. I've seen it before here in Wisconsin where I live, but I didn't know this is what it was called. So it's when super cooled, water droplets freeze onto surfaces. And so it looks like this opaque coating of like tiny, white granular particles, like almost like little tiny white feathers, you know, over every stick, every branch. And so that's what Rhyme is here in Carol Dunbar's title.

Oh

Yeah.

I'm

Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah.

lesson.

Yeah. That's about all the science I've done recently and that's probably all the science I'll do for a while, but hey. I'm here to serve. So the second book also kind of weather related actually is called The Snowbirds by Christina Clancy. And this has gotten a lot of Instagram love. The premise of Christy Clancy's third novel I think is fascinating. What happens when a couple has very different preferences about weather? Now, that kind of sounds silly, but I know from my own life that there are very real people who cannot do cold, snowy winters like the winters here in Wisconsin, and that is very much the main character in the snowbirds. Her name is Kim. She and her longtime partner Grant. Live in my own state of Wisconsin and she is absolutely over it. She is demoralized by the cold temperatures, and she gets this really exciting opportunity to sort of take like a sabbatical in Palm Springs, California, and Grant accompanies her, but he does so kicking and screaming. He's not happy about this. So Kim and Grant settle into this fabulous condo that's owned by Kim's. Flamboyant gay ex-husband. There's a whole great side plot there. He's letting them stay there rent free while he's sort of gallivant around the world. And so Kim and Grant settle into this, you know, gorgeous sunshine living. You know, they sit by the pool, they drink their cocktails, there's sunshine, there's glamor, there's all of that. Grant takes up hiking and he becomes lost in the mountains. That tower over Palm Springs, which as I've learned from reading the snowbirds can be literally deadly. Like when people get lost, like the local, you know, rescue force like shuts down the mountains, they send out helicopters, you know, drones, they look for the lost people. It's really kind of a whole big drama. So this is what happens to Grant, like he goes missing the local authorities, shut down the mountains. But Kim begins to wonder if this whole thing was really intentional on Grant's part, did he really get lost or has he just left her? It's a very interesting question. So this story is all about character development. It's about midlife partnership and finding our center. And I also think it's a really compelling exploration of the changing love between two people. Over a number of years. So it's kind of a slow burn of a story. Really great, especially if you love Palm Springs. I have never been, but there is like a real strong Palm Springs vibe and people in Palm Springs are eating it up, so, yeah.

I feel like I should that's like a fun trip to do, like going to Palm Springs you know, stay in a

yeah.

and going to the desert. Just have fun and then you know, have this fabulous day. 'cause I feel like there's thrifting, there's you know, hiking

There's everything there. I mean, when you read the snowbirds, you see kind of like you said, like there's the hiking, but there's also the glamor and there are all these, you know, starlets that come down from LA and, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. Maybe that's a, maybe reading retreat in Palm Springs might be a good

I would love that maybe Kristy Clancy could host us because she has a condo out there and she's always out there.

There

I'm sure she would.

There we

I love that. Okay, I'm gonna move to a different book now. And this one is by a man, so it's a 40 year kiss by Nicholas Butler. And I've read all of Nicholas Butler's books. I've loved them. This one, his newest one is sort of a departure for him because I feel like his other books are what I would call maybe more masculine, if you will. But this one it's really different. It's. A lovely, again, a slow burn of a story, if you will. So the book opens and we have 60 something year old Charlie who's sitting on a bar stool in a drinking establishment nervously waiting for his ex-wife, Vivian, to join him for a drink. So. Charlie, we learned from the very beginning. He's not perfect. He's made some really big mistakes, but he's filled with this sense of elation and hope, and of course anxiety as he anticipates Vivian walking through the door, so the two of them had been married about 40 years before, back in the 1980s. They'd been married for about four years, and they haven't seen each other since they got divorced. So, you know, when 40 years have passed and you haven't seen this person that you were formerly married to, there are a lot of things that the other person is not aware of. Like maybe some secrets perhaps, or some vices or maybe some decisions or moments maybe you'd like to sweep under the rug. But Charlie like really wants to reconnect with her. So this is the story of their beautiful, very messy. Relationship. Do they give it another go, do they not? I'm not gonna tell you. You have to read the book to find out, but I will share that. Nick Butler actually based this story on a real life couple. Nick himself was sitting on a bar stool and a couple came in and sat behind him, and Nick sat there like nursing his drink, like blushing furiously as he's listening to this couple talk behind him, and the man was telling the woman. I'm still in love with you. I've never stopped thinking about you. Can I kiss you and Nick, you know, like pulls out a pencil and a piece of paper and he starts taking notes and that's where he got the idea for this book. So it's pretty cool.

Oh my gosh. That's so

Yeah.

real life actually inspires like a book. And think about the story of how it unravels, you know?

And I also, I was gonna say I like that in this book. The main characters here, you know, this couple, they're in their sixties and I love that because I don't always wanna read about, you know, people falling in love in their twenties. I mean, I'm in my fifties. Like I love kind of the span of the full human experience and I think it's really neat to read about a couple of that eight.

Yeah, I love the fact is you know, you have this life outside, you had this moment at one point in life, and then 40 years later reconnecting and then seeing like how far, how different you are

Yeah.

How much you have grown or how much you are so

Yeah.

in that

Oh yeah.

Like the differences and the

Yeah,

It's I don't know it's somewhat like going back to high school and seeing those high school friends at high school reunion, but well, yes, I really wanna don't talk to you, or

totally.

wanna reconnect with you and have this

Yeah.

and this and the more deeper level because you were married to that person.

you nailed it. That's exactly what this book unpacks and it's really fascinating. So it's a beautiful book. Okay. The next one I wanna talk about is all the Colors of the Dark by Chris Whitaker. Have you read this one?

I heard many wonderful things about it, but I'm intimidated by the

okay.

it's literary.

We're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about that because I do not say this often, like this is a bold statement for me, but all the colors of the dark is one of the best books I have ever read. I mean, literally ever read and I read all the time. That's all I do is read. I read this book with sweaty hands and a Racing Heart, and I finished it probably a month or two ago, and I can't stop thinking about it like it's still with me. We'll talk about the length in just a minute, because I don't want people to get overwhelmed. So this is Chris Whitaker's fourth novel. It's the first one I've read, but it will not be the last. I wanna go back and read all of his books now. I think it is literary fiction at its finest. He has such a way with words and he brings in these like shimmering threads of mystery and thriller and even romance like. I don't know how he does it. And the plot itself is this like intricate, breathtaking story arc from start to finish. So it begins in 1975 in a small town in rural Missouri. I. When a teenage girl is almost abducted in broad daylight, but she's rescued at the last minute by this kid named Patch. He's called Patch. His real name is Joseph, but he was born without an eye, so he wears an eye patch. So that's why he's called Patch. And this kid is like awkward and nervy. But he miraculously saves her, but not without facing. Unthinkable loss and hardship of his own. And that's really, you know, what the story is like he does this one thing in this moment of time and how it impacts the rest of his life. So it is an epic story. It's about 600 pages. But Laura, this is where Chris Whitaker shines. The chapters are so short, some of them are only two pages, so he really chunks it out into these little bite-sized pieces and it makes it incredibly easy to read because you know, you can sit down and read like. A chapter or two and then go to bed, whatever. It's it's it's really great the way he structured it, because I do think a book that size would be intimidating otherwise but it's not. I, you have to believe me. Like you start reading it and you're like, oh my God, I can't put it down. I. I think it's also hard to put down because the way that he fleshes out the characters, not just Patch, but Patch's best friend, Saint is her name. And we see a lot of the story from Saint's perspective. And you'll love Saint. I mean, oh my God. They just have this incredible friendship and then they have other friends and neighbors in this small town and. Chris Whitaker really just beautifully renders all of them. And I love the themes he incorporates, like there's ideas about art and the search for truth and justice and women's rights and his words. I don't know how else to describe it. They just, they feel like home. I want to crawl inside of his words and just never leave. They just feel like home. It's really uncanny. And of course at the heart of this book is love love for friends, for children, for parents, and for safety. And I will say it's got one of the most incredible endings I have ever encountered. I loved the ending. So it's just, it's masterful. It's full of hope. It is worth the ride. It's worth the time that you put into it.

All right, so I'll borrow from the

Oh, it's so good. It's so good.

I'll do it. I'll do

Okay.

I'll do it for

I think you should do it. And tell me what you think. Because this is one of those books that I have not talked to anyone who's read it and who hasn't loved it. So I'm sure there's somebody out there that didn't love it, but I have not met that person yet. But.

Awesome.

Okay. I have another Epic. Totally different, but it's another long one, same as it ever was by Claire Lombardo. So this is Claire's second novel and it's about 500 pages. There is sex, romance, heartache, infidelity, messy families, broken hearts, forgiveness, everything you want out of a propulsive compelling read. So our main character is Julia Ames, and she's in her fifties, which again, like I was saying before, I really like that. You know, she's a main character who's got some ears and some wisdom. I really like that. But she is, Julia's sort of facing like this midlife crisis similar to the quarter life crisis she faced when she was younger. And she does some things which are questionable. And I found myself like moaning out loud. No, Julia don't do that. 'cause she, she does some things, but why this book is so masterful is that bit by bit, Claire Lombardo starts revealing Julia's backstory of growing up in Chicago with a mother who really failed her in some pretty significant ways. You know, so now as a 50 something year old, Julia herself has two grown kids that are going through their own ups and downs, grappling with sexuality, trying to get into college, maybe getting married themselves. And so Julia's life is really in this state of upheaval. So this is her story. And I think Claire Lombardo writes with a clarity and depth about relationships that is. Remarkable. And she just gets humans and love and hope and I just wanna get inside her brain because I don't know how she does it. What I find fascinating about her too is that she's not married and she doesn't have kids. And she writes about you know, married couples and parents and I think she grew up with a lot of siblings if memory serves. So her take on family life is really fabulous.

Yeah. Oh, I

Yeah.

I love this. And I love the fact she's not married, she

Yeah,

kids. And it's like that's, and you can still observe family, observe other people, and have and take the best and

Yeah.

and make it into

Yeah, it's really magic. I would suggest having tissues handy towards the end. So I'm just gonna leave it at that. That's really beautiful.

another book that I think her debut was one of those book

Yeah.

I think maybe,

Yes, it was. The most fun we ever had. Yep. About the four Sisters, which I enjoyed reading because I'm the oldest of four girls and so

yeah

her characters were a little more, more messed up than my sisters and I are. But whatever, she, again, like great family saga like your heart will get broken, but then you're also just gonna love every page. So.

This is go.

Okay, we're ending Laura with a book. I know You Loved Be because we were texting about it. Margot's Got Money Troubles by Ruthie Thorpe. You loved it, didn't you?

I loved it. I think this is like the perfect, I call it the smart beach

Yes.

like you don't wanna read, like some, you don't, you wanna take, I, I actually did a recommendation about Smart

Yeah.

and this

Yeah.

them. Whereas you wanna take it to the beach. It's actually it's interesting, it's frothy, it's fun. But same time there's actually a character arc. And there's actually it's A teen and yes, as a teen mom, 'cause she's a But you can relate so

Oh, yeah.

Ruthie and her parents'

Yeah,

And it's like relatable to today's society where we are.

totally.

It's so good. The audio's excellent. So if you wanna just listen to the audio, it's excellent to do. I have to tell you, I actually haven't finished because I'm still, I don't wanna end with

Wow. Yeah,

more

I know

so I'm trying to delay leaving behind.

it. It's such a great book, and like you just said, it's like. Deceptively wickedly smart, right? Like you start reading it and you think oh, this is going to kind of be like this, you know, frothy, juicy book, which it is. But then it's also, it's like eating cheese covered broccoli, like you're still getting the broccoli. Rufi Thorpe is bringing in a lot of big, relevant themes.

Yes.

give a little, oh, Go ahead.

we have the pastor, we got the WWE. Father was dysfunctional, other family. We got like family, like baby mama

Yeah.

you know.

It's so good. I'll give a little summary if people haven't read it, but

Yeah.

centers on 20-year-old Margot Millet and she's the daughter of an ex pro wrestler, as you just mentioned, and a former Hooters waitress. And she gets pregnant, very unplanned after having a supremely lusty affair with her English professor at community college. So she ends up giving birth and keeping her little baby boy. And of course, you know, she falls promptly in love with him. But how do you support an infant when you're living in an apartment with three other college students and you have no job to support yourself? So obviously you invite your ex pro wrestling dad to move in with you and you start and OnlyFans to make money. What could go wrong? Well, many things go wrong, of course. But this is Margot's, you know, coming of age story and it's set in Los Angeles and I think it's funny and tender and so insightful. You know, roofie Thorpe does a great job of, you know, there is some heartbreak along the way, but she really leaves. At least she left me feeling better about the state of the world. I don't know how she did that, right? Like the way she brings in women's rights and women's advocacy and standing up for ourselves. I mean, Margo just sort of takes all of this on and she does it with such a plum, if you will. Like she's really remarkable character. And Roofie therp. I love also that she just. She does such a beautiful job of exploring relationships between friends, lovers, parents and children. And again, there's love. There's so much tenderness, and the way that comes through in this book is so enjoyable.

Yeah, this book goes like I realized, I love. love Margo's journey and I would not, you know, my journey's very different from Margot. I did not have

Right.

in college and. You know, I had to figure out on my own, like Bootstrap, but I can identify with the level of determination of you know what? I'm gonna take care of this kid. I'm gonna do whatever it takes to

Yeah.

I also appreciate, 'cause Margaret becomes a content

Yeah. Yes.

fans Instagram. It's it's the same thing TikTok. And so I love the content creation aspect of it it was like, oh yeah, I got this idea for Margo. Oh, the collaborations, or you have to do this content or

Yeah.

like she does immerse in the idea of content creation that it doesn't matter the platform, it's there's a level of rules and expectations and work that takes place and she actually does it in a way while managing. A

Right.

A 1-year-old, not even a 1-year-old, like a baby,

and her dad, because her dad, of course, you know, has some drug problems and so she's trying to like, yes. She's it's the sandwich generation, right? You know, she's got her father, she's got her kids. She's trying to navigate all this. And I love what you just said about the content creation because you're right, like she's so smart the way she uses her resources and. You know, figures out who she needs to talk to and what she needs to do. And I have to say, I didn't know anything about OnlyFans, am I saying it right? OnlyFans or fans only, whatever it's called. OnlyFans. I didn't know anything about that until reading this book, and so I learned a lot about that. I mean, it's a very relevant and fresh story. Yeah.

It's a fresh

A fresh take. Yeah.

this is a perfect, if you wanna take it to the beach This is a perfect take. And it's been out for a year, so you should be able to get it from

Yeah.

without a lot of

Yeah,

I hope so. But there's Roofie Thor actually has great other

she totally does.

you can just go down

Absolutely

great books too.

did.

and I think,

Did you read The Knockout Queen?

no, I actually

Oh,

it,

I love that book too. I love it. Like then

yeah.

vibe like. Really strong female character you know, who has a lot of big hurdles to overcome. But again, it's that sense of determination and there's a lot about boxing and like all of that. I didn't know very much about that and it's really great. Add that to your list too. Our never ending tbrs.

I know. I got too many

I do too.

so.

Ditto.

So Laura, thank you so much for being the

Thank you for having me. I'll come back anytime.

Oh. Tell us about your books and tell

Oh.

your where

sure. So I am the author of two middle grade novels. So I write for kiddos ages like eight to 12, and they are called Crossing the Pressure Line, and Marvelous Jackson and I write about. Brave kids, cute pets, small towns and sweet treats. And my novels are standalone companion stories, so you can read them one after the other, or you could just read one and not the other. You don't, you could do it however you want. But bonus points if you read both of them because they're a lot of the same kids in both of the stories. And you can find me my website is Laura Bird books.com, but I am most active. Active on Instagram at Laura at the library, and there are underscores between each of those words, Laura, at the library. So find me there and let's talk books anytime.

Awesome. Thank you Laura for bringing

Thank you, Laura. Keep up the great work.

Awesome. If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider leave rate a review or subscribe to the podcast. our newsletter at What to Read Next Blog. The links are in the newsletter, and yeah. Thank you so much for listening. Bye.