1
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,230
Matt Edmundson: Welcome to this
week's Crowd Church service.

2
00:00:11,670 --> 00:00:15,460
We are a digital church on a
quest to discover how Jesus helps

3
00:00:15,460 --> 00:00:17,720
us live a more meaningful life.

4
00:00:18,190 --> 00:00:22,459
We are a community, a space to explore
the Christian faith and a place

5
00:00:22,459 --> 00:00:24,450
where you can contribute and grow.

6
00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,950
Our service  will last about an
hour and in a few seconds you'll

7
00:00:29,950 --> 00:00:34,629
meet our hosts for our service
who will introduce today's talk.

8
00:00:35,319 --> 00:00:39,649
After the talk we will have a time of
worship and reflection after which we

9
00:00:39,649 --> 00:00:44,589
head into Conversation Street where
we look at your stories and questions

10
00:00:44,950 --> 00:00:46,949
that you've posted in the comments.

11
00:00:48,329 --> 00:00:52,910
Now we want to invite you to connect with
us here at Crowd Church and we've got a

12
00:00:52,910 --> 00:00:56,470
few ways in which you can do just that.

13
00:00:57,060 --> 00:01:01,610
Firstly, you can engage with crowd
from any device during our live

14
00:01:01,610 --> 00:01:05,940
stream and if you're up for it, why
not invite a few friends over and

15
00:01:05,940 --> 00:01:07,970
experience the service together.

16
00:01:07,970 --> 00:01:11,710
Church is all about connecting with
God and connecting with others.

17
00:01:12,180 --> 00:01:17,320
And one of the easiest ways for you
to do that is join one of our mid

18
00:01:17,350 --> 00:01:21,480
week groups where we meet online
together to catch up and discover

19
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,150
more about the amazingness of Christ.

20
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,880
You can also subscribe to our fairly
new podcast called What's The Story

21
00:01:30,110 --> 00:01:34,680
where we deep dive into stories of
faith and courage from everyday people.

22
00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:41,325
More information about All of these
things can be found on our website at www.

23
00:01:41,385 --> 00:01:41,855
crowd.

24
00:01:42,255 --> 00:01:46,785
church or you can reach out to
us on social media at crowd.

25
00:01:46,785 --> 00:01:46,835
church.

26
00:01:46,835 --> 00:01:54,025
If you are new to crowd or new to the
Christian faith and would like to know

27
00:01:54,285 --> 00:01:58,895
what your next steps to take are, why
not head over to our website crowd.

28
00:01:59,155 --> 00:02:00,545
church forward slash church.

29
00:02:00,890 --> 00:02:10,520
Next, for more details, and now, the
moment you've been waiting for is here, at

30
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,560
Online Church Service Stocks, right now.

31
00:02:14,175 --> 00:02:14,505
Now.

32
00:02:15,090 --> 00:02:19,020
Hello and welcome to Crowd Online Church.

33
00:02:19,070 --> 00:02:22,100
I am here with the beautiful,
talented John Harding.

34
00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:23,810
It's great to see you
on this Easter Sunday.

35
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:25,090
John, how are you doing?

36
00:02:26,100 --> 00:02:28,540
John Harding: I'm doing
very well, thank you, Matt.

37
00:02:28,570 --> 00:02:30,750
Thank you for that lovely
introduction, as always.

38
00:02:30,750 --> 00:02:32,500
Was it beautiful and talented this time?

39
00:02:32,500 --> 00:02:36,830
It's normally something else,
but a happy Easter to you, Matt.

40
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:37,690
Are you having a good

41
00:02:37,690 --> 00:02:38,290
Matt Edmundson: Easter?

42
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:39,650
I am, man, I am.

43
00:02:39,660 --> 00:02:42,580
We had a cracking service at Frontline
this morning, not going to lie.

44
00:02:43,010 --> 00:02:47,550
I enjoyed church this morning
and I enjoyed Liverpool winning,

45
00:02:48,110 --> 00:02:49,240
so we're top of the league.

46
00:02:49,650 --> 00:02:53,000
It's been a cracking, and here I am with
you doing Crowd, so it's a cracking day.

47
00:02:53,810 --> 00:02:57,620
John Harding: Yeah, what a great, maybe an
end to the day, I don't know, but yeah, a

48
00:02:57,620 --> 00:03:02,661
day for celebrating all round and a happy
Easter to everyone who's tuning in and a

49
00:03:02,661 --> 00:03:04,480
happy Easter to everyone who's watching.

50
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,346
I pray that you have a real
celebration today of the resurrection.

51
00:03:08,851 --> 00:03:09,951
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.

52
00:03:10,001 --> 00:03:10,641
Absolutely.

53
00:03:10,641 --> 00:03:13,801
Easter is the day of the
Christian calendar, isn't it?

54
00:03:13,801 --> 00:03:16,171
It's the day we get to celebrate
the resurrection of Christ.

55
00:03:16,421 --> 00:03:19,211
I love that video, the little
intro video that we have there.

56
00:03:19,531 --> 00:03:22,421
And you, as you can see,
I have earphones in.

57
00:03:22,431 --> 00:03:27,751
So when I hear that video playing, it's
like in surround sound, and you just get

58
00:03:27,751 --> 00:03:31,171
immersed in it and you get the tingles
and the goosebumps and yeah, just great

59
00:03:31,171 --> 00:03:33,821
to celebrate the resurrection, which
we're going to be talking about today.

60
00:03:33,871 --> 00:03:35,471
In fact, you're going to
be talking about today.

61
00:03:36,211 --> 00:03:40,236
John Harding: Yeah,  I'm gonna be speaking
through the power of pre recording.

62
00:03:40,266 --> 00:03:43,966
I've got an interesting little talk
from an interesting little location.

63
00:03:44,276 --> 00:03:48,116
It's it's gonna be different today,
but it's that theme of resurrection

64
00:03:48,116 --> 00:03:52,166
and I love proclaiming it and I love
listening to it being proclaimed.

65
00:03:52,176 --> 00:03:56,286
There's something so powerful and you
said great video, but I'm just sat there.

66
00:03:56,606 --> 00:04:01,326
Listen to that video thinking how
exciting that the truth proclaimed that we

67
00:04:01,326 --> 00:04:04,426
believe not just received but spoken out.

68
00:04:04,786 --> 00:04:05,516
I love it.

69
00:04:05,816 --> 00:04:06,826
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.

70
00:04:06,866 --> 00:04:08,176
Now we're going to get into all of that.

71
00:04:08,176 --> 00:04:09,836
So welcome to Crowd Church.

72
00:04:09,836 --> 00:04:12,976
If this is your first time with
us, a very warm welcome to you.

73
00:04:13,496 --> 00:04:14,786
We just do church online.

74
00:04:14,806 --> 00:04:15,806
We have some fun with it.

75
00:04:16,066 --> 00:04:19,306
The way it works is we're going to have
a talk, actually, as John just mentioned,

76
00:04:19,396 --> 00:04:21,856
John is going to have an interesting
talk from an interesting location.

77
00:04:21,936 --> 00:04:24,886
Stay tuned to find out more and
then John and I are going to get

78
00:04:24,886 --> 00:04:26,506
into whole Conversation Street.

79
00:04:26,506 --> 00:04:29,046
We're going to chat about some of
the things that John said and some of

80
00:04:29,046 --> 00:04:30,066
the things you write in the comments.

81
00:04:30,146 --> 00:04:33,236
So if you've got any questions, any
thoughts, any ideas, any stories you want

82
00:04:33,236 --> 00:04:37,466
to share, do put them in the comments and
we will hopefully get a chance to respond

83
00:04:37,466 --> 00:04:41,536
to them, whether you're watching on
YouTube or Facebook it'd be great to hear

84
00:04:41,566 --> 00:04:43,557
from you and so let's see who we've got.

85
00:04:43,557 --> 00:04:46,546
We've got Andy in the comments, we've
got Peter in the comments, Peter, I

86
00:04:46,656 --> 00:04:48,636
think you're in Spain, from memory.

87
00:04:48,666 --> 00:04:52,056
I have no idea what Happy Easter
is in Spanish, but whatever it is,

88
00:04:52,056 --> 00:04:53,496
Happy Easter to you, my good friends.

89
00:04:53,826 --> 00:04:58,286
We've got Lala over on Facebook, Miriam,
Happy Easter, Matt, Happy Easter.

90
00:04:58,706 --> 00:05:02,436
Very warm welcome to everybody
that's joining us so far.

91
00:05:02,466 --> 00:05:06,746
It's it's great to be with you on this
very beautiful, joyous, celebratory

92
00:05:06,746 --> 00:05:08,296
day in the Christian calendar.

93
00:05:08,346 --> 00:05:10,436
So yeah, we're going to
get into all of that.

94
00:05:10,436 --> 00:05:13,436
So I think without further ado, John,
should we get into the talk and then

95
00:05:13,436 --> 00:05:14,656
we'll get into Conversation Street.

96
00:05:15,526 --> 00:05:16,246
Let's get into it.

97
00:05:16,506 --> 00:05:17,206
Let's get into it.

98
00:05:17,296 --> 00:05:18,186
Like I say, here's John.

99
00:05:18,196 --> 00:05:18,716
We're going to have a talk.

100
00:05:18,726 --> 00:05:21,986
It's going to last about, I think, 11
and a half minutes from memory, which is

101
00:05:22,046 --> 00:05:24,646
probably one of the shortest talks you've
done for a while, John, I think, isn't it?

102
00:05:25,286 --> 00:05:28,336
John Harding: You'll see from the
location that I had to get it into

103
00:05:28,336 --> 00:05:32,606
a little slot really, but can I also
say, please interact everyone, put your

104
00:05:32,606 --> 00:05:36,576
questions, your thoughts, your comments,
your stories, your illustrations in.

105
00:05:36,576 --> 00:05:38,186
We'd love to develop the ideas

106
00:05:38,186 --> 00:05:39,886
Matt Edmundson: from the
talk in Conversation Street.

107
00:05:39,886 --> 00:05:40,926
Thanks Yeah, absolutely.

108
00:05:40,926 --> 00:05:43,116
That's the bit after the talk
where John and I just chat along,

109
00:05:43,506 --> 00:05:45,596
like I say, to stuff that's
brought up and in the comments.

110
00:05:45,606 --> 00:05:46,346
So don't be afraid.

111
00:05:46,376 --> 00:05:46,866
Whack them in.

112
00:05:47,146 --> 00:05:47,996
It'll be good to see you in there.

113
00:05:48,306 --> 00:05:49,776
We'll be back in a few minutes time.

114
00:05:49,776 --> 00:05:51,116
But for now, here's John.

115
00:05:51,136 --> 00:05:55,656
You go get changed, quickly go to
the location and we'll see you there.

116
00:06:00,256 --> 00:06:03,586
John Harding: Happy Easter everyone
from sunny tonight in England.

117
00:06:03,586 --> 00:06:04,166
India.

118
00:06:04,376 --> 00:06:07,726
Happy Easter, or should
I say Christ is risen?

119
00:06:08,326 --> 00:06:11,826
Because that's the ancient traditional
greeting on Easter Sunday morning

120
00:06:11,826 --> 00:06:13,476
of Christians from around the world.

121
00:06:13,766 --> 00:06:19,846
I say Christ is risen, you say He is
risen indeed, and we both say Alleluia.

122
00:06:20,266 --> 00:06:22,486
Christ is risen.

123
00:06:22,796 --> 00:06:26,966
This is the foundation stone
of the Christian faith.

124
00:06:27,476 --> 00:06:30,416
Without the resurrection,
there is no Christian faith.

125
00:06:30,736 --> 00:06:34,926
Without the actual, literal,
miraculous, bodily resurrection

126
00:06:34,956 --> 00:06:38,026
of Jesus, there's no Christianity.

127
00:06:39,336 --> 00:06:45,206
The Apostle Paul, he says of this in
1 Corinthians chapter 15, he says, If

128
00:06:45,206 --> 00:06:50,451
there is no resurrection, Your faith is
futile, it is useless, it is pointless.

129
00:06:51,401 --> 00:06:51,671
C.

130
00:06:51,671 --> 00:06:51,851
S.

131
00:06:51,851 --> 00:06:56,361
Lewis, the great author and Christian
academic, he argued in his work called

132
00:06:56,371 --> 00:07:01,661
Miracles, he argued that to preach
Christ is to preach the Resurrection.

133
00:07:02,171 --> 00:07:05,851
The Resurrection was a central theme
of every sermon in the Book of Acts.

134
00:07:06,091 --> 00:07:06,981
It's why C.

135
00:07:06,981 --> 00:07:07,151
S.

136
00:07:07,151 --> 00:07:10,901
Lewis wrote Narnia, it's why he
had Aslan rise from the dead.

137
00:07:10,901 --> 00:07:13,651
He wanted to explain
that idea to children.

138
00:07:14,061 --> 00:07:15,541
Christ is the Resurrection.

139
00:07:16,081 --> 00:07:16,641
Risen.

140
00:07:17,021 --> 00:07:22,921
It's not a metaphor, it's not a made up
nice story with a moral meaning in it,

141
00:07:22,921 --> 00:07:27,751
it's not a thing that was believed in the
ancient world but irrelevant for today.

142
00:07:28,031 --> 00:07:32,021
No, Christ's resurrection is the
whole hinge point for the Christian

143
00:07:32,281 --> 00:07:37,581
faith and it's the thing that makes
the difference today in our lives.

144
00:07:38,271 --> 00:07:41,791
Here I am in Chennai, in
India, the burial place of St.

145
00:07:41,801 --> 00:07:44,161
Thomas, one of Jesus twelve apostles.

146
00:07:44,161 --> 00:07:49,521
And there's a strong, compelling
argument that in 72 AD, Thomas

147
00:07:49,531 --> 00:07:51,311
was killed here on this site.

148
00:07:51,341 --> 00:07:55,061
He was martyred, a spear was
driven through him after 20

149
00:07:55,071 --> 00:08:00,251
years of preaching the gospel and
planting churches in this region.

150
00:08:00,921 --> 00:08:03,871
Thomas had travelled from Israel to India.

151
00:08:04,341 --> 00:08:11,091
To give this life proclaiming message
of Jesus death and resurrection.

152
00:08:12,861 --> 00:08:17,581
Think for a moment about Thomas
reaction to Jesus, to the resurrection.

153
00:08:17,956 --> 00:08:21,646
You can read about it in John
chapter 20 verse 24 to 31.

154
00:08:21,646 --> 00:08:22,826
It's a famous story.

155
00:08:22,826 --> 00:08:27,416
It's so famous that when we think
of Thomas, we think of doubt.

156
00:08:28,176 --> 00:08:31,046
You might even describe
someone as a doubting Thomas.

157
00:08:31,946 --> 00:08:33,096
Let me recap the story.

158
00:08:33,126 --> 00:08:34,126
What has happened is this.

159
00:08:34,126 --> 00:08:38,756
Jesus had been crucified, killed,
dead and buried for three days.

160
00:08:38,756 --> 00:08:40,686
A fact, everyone knew it.

161
00:08:41,111 --> 00:08:42,271
Thomas knew it.

162
00:08:42,841 --> 00:08:44,951
Jesus was dead.

163
00:08:45,491 --> 00:08:49,621
So for these disciples, their hopes, their
dreams of Jesus becoming a new king in a

164
00:08:49,621 --> 00:08:52,661
new kingdom, their dreams were crushed.

165
00:08:53,371 --> 00:08:56,731
And now these disciples, because
of their association with

166
00:08:56,731 --> 00:08:58,361
Jesus, they were in hiding.

167
00:08:58,661 --> 00:09:01,131
They were in fear for their lives.

168
00:09:02,281 --> 00:09:08,921
Now, what they hadn't realized was
that death could not hold Jesus.

169
00:09:08,921 --> 00:09:10,941
The grave could not cling to Jesus.

170
00:09:10,951 --> 00:09:12,591
Such was his power.

171
00:09:12,591 --> 00:09:16,681
Such was His purity, that
resurrection was inevitable.

172
00:09:17,431 --> 00:09:19,471
So Jesus had been
killed, he'd been buried.

173
00:09:19,471 --> 00:09:24,411
Three days later, he'd raised a new
life, and this resurrected Jesus

174
00:09:24,621 --> 00:09:29,761
then appeared to Mary and Peter and
John and then the other disciples.

175
00:09:29,761 --> 00:09:33,781
They all believed that Jesus had
been raised from the dead simply.

176
00:09:34,141 --> 00:09:39,141
Because they'd seen Jesus, they'd seen the
resurrection of Jesus with their own eyes.

177
00:09:39,141 --> 00:09:41,871
They'd encountered the resurrected Jesus.

178
00:09:41,871 --> 00:09:45,721
Yeah, it was a mind blowing impossible
miracle, but they couldn't deny

179
00:09:45,721 --> 00:09:48,671
it because they'd experienced it.

180
00:09:48,941 --> 00:09:49,841
They'd seen it.

181
00:09:50,721 --> 00:09:55,041
But for whatever reason, Thomas
had missed out on all of that.

182
00:09:55,681 --> 00:10:00,031
Thomas hadn't been with Mary or Peter
or John or the other disciples when

183
00:10:00,031 --> 00:10:01,871
they encountered the risen Jesus.

184
00:10:02,541 --> 00:10:06,506
And so When those disciples said
to Thomas, when they said Jesus

185
00:10:06,506 --> 00:10:11,166
is alive, that he'd risen from the
dead, I think, quite understandably,

186
00:10:11,256 --> 00:10:14,906
Thomas simply did not believe that.

187
00:10:16,046 --> 00:10:22,456
The disciples told Thomas Jesus is risen,
and Thomas famously replies, he says

188
00:10:22,936 --> 00:10:27,976
unless I see the nail marks in his hands
Unless I touch the place where the spear

189
00:10:27,976 --> 00:10:31,556
went into his side, I will not believe.

190
00:10:32,326 --> 00:10:36,226
Unless I see the nail marks in his hands,
unless I touch the place where the spear

191
00:10:36,536 --> 00:10:39,811
went into his side, I will not believe.

192
00:10:40,801 --> 00:10:44,051
In other words, Thomas was saying,
unless I see him, unless I touch

193
00:10:44,051 --> 00:10:49,941
him, unless I can empirically verify
this for myself, I won't believe.

194
00:10:51,451 --> 00:10:52,791
Anyway, the story continues.

195
00:10:52,791 --> 00:10:54,231
John 20, 26.

196
00:10:54,961 --> 00:10:59,741
It says that a week passes and Thomas
is out with the other disciples

197
00:10:59,741 --> 00:11:04,781
and when, who should walk into the
room, but none other than the risen

198
00:11:04,781 --> 00:11:07,471
Jesus, freshly raised from the dead.

199
00:11:07,971 --> 00:11:11,321
And Jesus addresses Thomas,
he says to Thomas, he says,

200
00:11:11,951 --> 00:11:13,791
Look at my nail pierced hands.

201
00:11:13,821 --> 00:11:17,611
Thomas, touch my side
where the spear went in.

202
00:11:18,901 --> 00:11:22,291
Jesus says to Thomas,
stop doubting and believe.

203
00:11:23,461 --> 00:11:25,361
And Thomas says these words to Jesus.

204
00:11:25,361 --> 00:11:28,511
His response to Jesus in verse 28 is this.

205
00:11:28,521 --> 00:11:31,591
He says, My Lord and my God.

206
00:11:32,661 --> 00:11:36,361
And I want to make simple points,
three simple points about Easter from

207
00:11:36,901 --> 00:11:38,821
the resurrection of Jesus and from St.

208
00:11:38,821 --> 00:11:39,631
Thomas today.

209
00:11:39,721 --> 00:11:44,911
Firstly Like Thomas, it
is okay to have doubts.

210
00:11:45,411 --> 00:11:46,251
Doubt is normal.

211
00:11:46,261 --> 00:11:47,211
Doubt is natural.

212
00:11:47,231 --> 00:11:48,961
Doubt is understandable.

213
00:11:49,221 --> 00:11:54,131
I don't know about you, but I don't think
I would have been any different to Thomas.

214
00:11:54,361 --> 00:11:58,301
The Christian faith hinges
on a number of unbelievable,

215
00:11:58,311 --> 00:12:00,201
miraculous, supernatural events.

216
00:12:00,201 --> 00:12:03,471
The virgin birth, that God
would take on flesh and blood.

217
00:12:04,141 --> 00:12:09,421
The resurrection, that Jesus would
be raised from the dead on third day.

218
00:12:09,661 --> 00:12:11,981
The remarkable miraculous happenings.

219
00:12:12,551 --> 00:12:17,291
If you've never questioned those
events, if you've never had doubts about

220
00:12:17,311 --> 00:12:21,921
those, you've probably never really
thought about them in enough detail.

221
00:12:22,561 --> 00:12:26,031
Thomas doubted, and it's
okay to have doubts.

222
00:12:27,146 --> 00:12:31,976
Number two, like Thomas, I think
it's okay to ask for evidence.

223
00:12:32,356 --> 00:12:33,906
Thomas asked for evidence.

224
00:12:33,906 --> 00:12:40,136
Thomas had this clear criteria for what
evidence he would need in order to believe

225
00:12:40,366 --> 00:12:42,736
what the other disciples were claiming.

226
00:12:43,426 --> 00:12:48,416
Thomas needed an encounter with
Jesus in order to believe in Jesus.

227
00:12:48,966 --> 00:12:50,526
That's exactly what Jesus gave him.

228
00:12:52,581 --> 00:12:56,011
I think that is really important to
note that for a number of reasons.

229
00:12:56,021 --> 00:13:00,201
Firstly, if you are watching this and
you're not a Christian, if you struggle

230
00:13:00,201 --> 00:13:04,491
to believe that Jesus was raised from
the dead, and you think how on earth can

231
00:13:04,491 --> 00:13:10,471
my normal, sane, intelligent, Christian
friends believe in such nonsense?

232
00:13:11,021 --> 00:13:12,761
The answer is most probably this.

233
00:13:12,781 --> 00:13:16,041
They believe because
they've encountered Jesus.

234
00:13:16,211 --> 00:13:18,681
They believe because
they've experienced Jesus.

235
00:13:18,701 --> 00:13:20,761
That's why they believed.

236
00:13:22,516 --> 00:13:26,476
Also, I think, Thomas, in asking for
evidence, it's important for us because

237
00:13:26,476 --> 00:13:30,226
it forces us to ask what evidence
would you need for the resurrection?

238
00:13:31,646 --> 00:13:34,356
And I think when we start to look
into it, actually, we see there's

239
00:13:34,366 --> 00:13:37,886
loads of compelling evidence
for the resurrection of Jesus.

240
00:13:37,936 --> 00:13:41,916
I don't have time to go into it all
now, but you could Google people

241
00:13:41,916 --> 00:13:45,376
like Lee Strobel and his book on
the evidence for the resurrection.

242
00:13:46,246 --> 00:13:50,136
But I want to point out one simple
compelling piece of evidence that's

243
00:13:50,186 --> 00:13:55,496
basically here all around me here at
the place of St Thomas's resting place.

244
00:13:56,046 --> 00:13:59,036
Jesus was crucified as a common
criminal, the enemy of the

245
00:13:59,036 --> 00:14:01,236
Jews, the enemy of the Romans.

246
00:14:02,046 --> 00:14:06,616
Those two forces then combined to do
everything in their power to crush the

247
00:14:06,616 --> 00:14:11,646
new religion of Christianity, to wipe it
out and to execute anyone who spread the

248
00:14:11,646 --> 00:14:15,556
message of Jesus's death and resurrection.

249
00:14:15,556 --> 00:14:17,576
The disciples, so they went into hiding.

250
00:14:17,586 --> 00:14:19,586
They were fearful for their lives.

251
00:14:19,586 --> 00:14:21,916
They faced the real likelihood
that they're going to be

252
00:14:21,916 --> 00:14:23,746
captured, tortured and executed.

253
00:14:24,896 --> 00:14:29,836
It seemed that Good Friday, Holy Saturday,
it seemed like Jesus's mission had failed.

254
00:14:30,236 --> 00:14:32,806
And so it was time to
pack up shop, go home.

255
00:14:33,406 --> 00:14:37,616
This is where the story should
have ended for those disciples.

256
00:14:39,206 --> 00:14:40,826
Only that's not what happened.

257
00:14:41,446 --> 00:14:44,666
Christianity did not die out
with the death of its founder.

258
00:14:45,326 --> 00:14:49,536
On the contrary, those disciples
told everyone that they met

259
00:14:49,566 --> 00:14:51,376
about Jesus, his resurrection.

260
00:14:51,376 --> 00:14:54,586
They preached it in the streets, they
preached it in the marketplaces, they

261
00:14:54,586 --> 00:15:00,466
went across the entire world proclaiming
the risen Jesus despite it being illegal.

262
00:15:00,756 --> 00:15:04,386
Despite the fact that many of them
were killed for it, in fact all of the

263
00:15:04,386 --> 00:15:10,476
apostles, apart from John, were executed
because they proclaimed the risen Jesus.

264
00:15:10,656 --> 00:15:12,026
Why would they do that?

265
00:15:12,586 --> 00:15:18,106
Why would they risk everything, give
everything, even their lives, for a lie?

266
00:15:18,106 --> 00:15:23,696
How do you take a handful of fearful men,
who felt like failures, and transform

267
00:15:23,696 --> 00:15:25,476
them into men who change the world?

268
00:15:25,476 --> 00:15:26,656
It just doesn't happen.

269
00:15:27,581 --> 00:15:31,931
But we know what made the difference
was three days later they encountered

270
00:15:32,201 --> 00:15:35,611
and experienced the resurrected Jesus.

271
00:15:36,911 --> 00:15:42,551
And even the Doubting Thomas was so
convinced and so transformed by that

272
00:15:42,851 --> 00:15:49,651
encounter, That he left his home and
travelled 7, 000 kilometres through

273
00:15:49,661 --> 00:15:53,291
modern day Iraq, Iran, Pakistan,
down to the southern parts of

274
00:15:53,291 --> 00:15:59,901
India, only to be killed, a spurge
driven through him for proclaiming

275
00:15:59,911 --> 00:16:02,416
the message of the risen Christ.

276
00:16:03,626 --> 00:16:05,996
So it's okay to have doubts like Thomas.

277
00:16:06,266 --> 00:16:09,306
It's okay to ask for evidence like Thomas.

278
00:16:09,996 --> 00:16:14,086
Do that with an open mind and an open
heart and you will see there's actually

279
00:16:14,086 --> 00:16:16,286
compelling evidence for the resurrection.

280
00:16:17,226 --> 00:16:18,866
But the final point is this.

281
00:16:19,806 --> 00:16:22,916
Will you acknowledge Jesus like Thomas?

282
00:16:22,916 --> 00:16:25,496
Will you respond to Jesus like Thomas?

283
00:16:25,536 --> 00:16:27,006
Is your heart open enough?

284
00:16:27,326 --> 00:16:32,426
Are you humble enough to say, Ask for
that encounter, and when you get that

285
00:16:32,466 --> 00:16:39,516
encounter, will your response be like
that of Thomas, who said, My Lord, my God.

286
00:16:40,046 --> 00:16:44,616
Thomas encountered the resurrected
Jesus, and his response was to confess

287
00:16:44,636 --> 00:16:47,366
that Jesus was his Lord and God.

288
00:16:47,946 --> 00:16:50,476
His response was to worship.

289
00:16:51,876 --> 00:16:56,046
So this Easter, let's move beyond
seeing Easter as a nice made up

290
00:16:56,046 --> 00:17:00,706
story, a nice metaphor, a fairy
tale about death and new life.

291
00:17:01,301 --> 00:17:05,911
Let's move beyond that into the
real story, a real miracle, a

292
00:17:05,911 --> 00:17:09,191
real encounter with a real person.

293
00:17:09,191 --> 00:17:14,401
Let's move beyond it to Jesus,
the one who is risen and the

294
00:17:14,401 --> 00:17:16,091
one who changes the world.

295
00:17:16,616 --> 00:17:17,216
Everything.

296
00:17:17,217 --> 00:17:19,256
Amen.

297
00:17:22,116 --> 00:17:22,986
Matt Edmundson: Amen, indeed.

298
00:17:24,896 --> 00:17:25,466
John Harding: Sorry, I've just got off the

299
00:17:25,666 --> 00:17:26,116
Matt Edmundson: plane.

300
00:17:28,886 --> 00:17:30,706
As if by magic, and he's back.

301
00:17:33,086 --> 00:17:33,966
Mate, that looked amazing.

302
00:17:33,966 --> 00:17:37,296
It sounded noisy, it sounded like there
was a lot going on, but it sounded like

303
00:17:37,346 --> 00:17:38,866
an epic little trip you were on there.

304
00:17:39,376 --> 00:17:40,216
John Harding: Oh, absolutely.

305
00:17:40,216 --> 00:17:44,406
And India is overloads the sensors,
but I normally do all my talks in

306
00:17:44,406 --> 00:17:47,686
one take, but every time I started
recording, someone would come

307
00:17:47,686 --> 00:17:49,086
over and ask me what I was doing.

308
00:17:51,126 --> 00:17:56,226
So I was like, between the sort of car
horns and the aeroplanes going overhead

309
00:17:56,226 --> 00:17:59,876
and people asking me what I was doing,
I was like, I need to get this down.

310
00:17:59,886 --> 00:18:01,476
That's why I'm speaking so quickly.

311
00:18:03,406 --> 00:18:04,116
Matt Edmundson: Oh, well done.

312
00:18:04,156 --> 00:18:04,566
Well done.

313
00:18:04,866 --> 00:18:08,336
It's I always find it's fascinating when
you try and do these things on location.

314
00:18:08,346 --> 00:18:14,676
So I remember two years ago, trying to
looking at the something that we did on

315
00:18:14,676 --> 00:18:18,076
social media, we did on Instagram, asking
the question, why did Jesus have to die?

316
00:18:18,466 --> 00:18:23,406
And I happened to be at Alcatraz with my
daughter at the time in San Francisco.

317
00:18:23,426 --> 00:18:28,116
So we're like this is a great way to try
and explain the whole concept of being a

318
00:18:28,116 --> 00:18:31,726
slave to sin and all that sort of stuff
and phrases we use in Christianity in us.

319
00:18:32,286 --> 00:18:35,807
And I use the analogy that, Imagine if
you were a prisoner and I could show

320
00:18:35,807 --> 00:18:38,847
you some of the prisons in Alcatraz
and we did some nice, what they call

321
00:18:38,867 --> 00:18:40,367
B roll and all those sorts of stuff.

322
00:18:41,347 --> 00:18:44,427
And we were doing this video imagine
you're a prisoner and you're just

323
00:18:44,427 --> 00:18:47,117
about to go into jail, you're
going to serve live imprisonment.

324
00:18:47,477 --> 00:18:50,197
And someone comes along and says,
I'm going to take your place.

325
00:18:50,237 --> 00:18:52,417
You get back on the boat
and go back to the mainland.

326
00:18:53,177 --> 00:18:55,107
This Jesus took our place on the cross.

327
00:18:55,107 --> 00:18:57,507
And I said, and we use this as an analogy.

328
00:18:57,907 --> 00:19:00,897
Anyway, the long and short of the
story is, John, it took a lot of

329
00:19:00,897 --> 00:19:04,877
takes to do a 30 second video.

330
00:19:04,877 --> 00:19:05,237
Yeah,

331
00:19:05,447 --> 00:19:07,927
John Harding: we don't always
give credit to the team, the crowd

332
00:19:08,007 --> 00:19:12,707
team who work behind the scenes,
but once again, great production.

333
00:19:13,687 --> 00:19:15,807
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I wish I could
take any form of credit for that, but

334
00:19:15,807 --> 00:19:20,237
I genuinely can't Tanya and Sadaf and
people like that, amazing, absolute

335
00:19:20,237 --> 00:19:23,867
legends, love the bit, bones off them with
all that video editing that's going on.

336
00:19:23,867 --> 00:19:26,247
Andy's put here in the comments,
bet the food was good in India.

337
00:19:27,427 --> 00:19:30,417
John Harding: Yeah, I love it, what
you don't realise when you travel

338
00:19:30,417 --> 00:19:35,497
around India what I hadn't realised
is that you do get spicy  curry style

339
00:19:35,507 --> 00:19:36,957
food, breakfast, lunch and dinner.

340
00:19:37,987 --> 00:19:42,267
So by the time you've done like
12 days, you just want a spag bol,

341
00:19:42,637 --> 00:19:44,907
Matt Edmundson: Was that your first
meal when you got back from India?

342
00:19:46,457 --> 00:19:47,007
That's awesome.

343
00:19:47,397 --> 00:19:48,987
It was great timing in one sense.

344
00:19:48,997 --> 00:19:53,667
So you were over in India, this place
where the Apostle Thomas, the doubting

345
00:19:53,667 --> 00:19:56,437
Thomas, the one we all hence the reason
that the sort of the doubting Thomas

346
00:19:56,457 --> 00:20:00,877
comes along, the sort of the place
where history would more than likely

347
00:20:00,877 --> 00:20:04,617
dictate was where he served out his
final years and was martyred there.

348
00:20:05,247 --> 00:20:10,277
And what was fascinating was the
amount you were talking about

349
00:20:10,277 --> 00:20:12,857
the amount of churches that sort
of started as a result of him.

350
00:20:13,072 --> 00:20:15,812
being over there, there's always been
churches over there now in India.

351
00:20:16,412 --> 00:20:20,032
What do they think to Thomas
over there in Chennai?

352
00:20:20,032 --> 00:20:25,382
I'm curious because obviously there's
a big link to him being in the Gospels.

353
00:20:26,052 --> 00:20:28,982
John Harding: I'm not sure I've ever
said what do you think about him?

354
00:20:29,032 --> 00:20:32,502
Think it's more the sort of what
would be the Episcopalian equivalent

355
00:20:32,562 --> 00:20:36,892
of the Anglican Church, if the
church in India that would and the

356
00:20:36,892 --> 00:20:39,992
Catholic Church as well obviously
with the veneration of the saints.

357
00:20:40,032 --> 00:20:40,352
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

358
00:20:40,442 --> 00:20:43,272
John Harding: They would make a
really big deal of it because you've

359
00:20:43,272 --> 00:20:47,657
actually only got, I think it's the
only, the third Basilica where you've

360
00:20:47,657 --> 00:20:52,587
got one of the Apostles evidenced
as buried there, so obviously St.

361
00:20:52,587 --> 00:20:53,987
Peter in Rome.

362
00:20:54,437 --> 00:20:57,667
I can't quite remember because my church
history and Catholic tradition isn't that

363
00:20:57,777 --> 00:21:01,227
strong, but it puts it right up there
as maybe one of the third most important

364
00:21:01,467 --> 00:21:03,857
sites if you look at it in that sense.

365
00:21:04,367 --> 00:21:08,107
It's actually a cave, a grotto,
where according to tradition, he

366
00:21:08,107 --> 00:21:10,427
spent hours and hours just in prayer.

367
00:21:12,212 --> 00:21:14,202
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, amazing, really.

368
00:21:14,682 --> 00:21:19,512
I remember when I was in Rome, and I
walked into what was purported to be the

369
00:21:19,512 --> 00:21:24,182
jail where the Apostle Paul was kept,
when he was in Rome in jail, going into

370
00:21:24,182 --> 00:21:29,072
the tiniest of rooms, it was tiny, and,
no real natural daylight and thinking,

371
00:21:30,242 --> 00:21:33,942
Oh, my goodness, you get a real sense
of what these guys went through and I

372
00:21:33,942 --> 00:21:35,982
think a sort of a new earned respect.

373
00:21:36,032 --> 00:21:38,482
I dunno, is it, how do
I word this question?

374
00:21:38,482 --> 00:21:39,922
I wanna say, was it inspirational?

375
00:21:39,927 --> 00:21:43,732
But not in a kind of weird way, but
just to see it, just to experience it.

376
00:21:44,302 --> 00:21:44,572
John Harding: Yeah.

377
00:21:44,627 --> 00:21:49,917
What I would say, Matt, is
obviously you and I, Sharon and

378
00:21:49,947 --> 00:21:52,697
others, were meant to be last month

379
00:21:53,017 --> 00:21:53,837
Matt Edmundson: in

380
00:21:54,127 --> 00:21:57,947
John Harding: Israel and,
that will be my fifth visit.

381
00:21:58,007 --> 00:22:01,737
We've rescheduled because obviously
we pray for peace in Jerusalem for

382
00:22:01,767 --> 00:22:04,017
everyone who lives in that land.

383
00:22:04,017 --> 00:22:04,877
We pray for peace.

384
00:22:05,257 --> 00:22:08,537
But what I would say is that if
you do the work and look into the

385
00:22:08,537 --> 00:22:13,237
historicity of the texts, like
the Gospels, they really stand up.

386
00:22:13,627 --> 00:22:18,997
These are just such strong traditions
and so one of the things that I love

387
00:22:19,427 --> 00:22:26,147
is being around the world in all sorts
of places and just seeing Christianity

388
00:22:26,187 --> 00:22:30,647
in those places and just seeing the
gospel bearing fruit in those places

389
00:22:30,977 --> 00:22:36,287
and people who love Jesus and who know
Jesus and who are serving Jesus often

390
00:22:36,287 --> 00:22:40,717
with far less resources than us, whether
it be parts of the world like Dias in

391
00:22:40,767 --> 00:22:45,197
Congo, where we've served as a church
for many years, or the students that

392
00:22:45,197 --> 00:22:47,617
we take to Bulgaria and up to Roma.

393
00:22:48,092 --> 00:22:52,852
Churches in the mountains in our part of
the world, in our little part of history,

394
00:22:52,862 --> 00:22:58,722
the UK 2024 that you could be forgiven
for being sold being believing a narrative

395
00:22:58,752 --> 00:23:00,662
which is Christianity is dying out.

396
00:23:00,712 --> 00:23:01,262
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

397
00:23:01,652 --> 00:23:03,522
John Harding: And there are
some sorts, some types of

398
00:23:03,522 --> 00:23:05,342
churches that are struggling.

399
00:23:05,342 --> 00:23:06,672
There's no doubt about that.

400
00:23:07,102 --> 00:23:09,532
But that is not the truth globally.

401
00:23:10,232 --> 00:23:13,132
Particularly in the Southern
Hemisphere, Christianity continues

402
00:23:13,132 --> 00:23:15,072
to grow at an incredibly rapid rate.

403
00:23:16,052 --> 00:23:19,582
The power of the Gospel, this message
that Jesus proclaimed, that then

404
00:23:19,592 --> 00:23:23,382
his first followers proclaimed,
hasn't lost any of its power.

405
00:23:24,312 --> 00:23:26,302
People's lives are still transformed.

406
00:23:26,612 --> 00:23:29,132
And I talked about evidence.

407
00:23:30,012 --> 00:23:32,192
Obviously we can't prove the resurrection.

408
00:23:32,622 --> 00:23:36,802
These things are beyond the scope of
science to prove we believe it by faith.

409
00:23:37,592 --> 00:23:41,802
We receive it by faith, but
even this day, around the world,

410
00:23:41,862 --> 00:23:43,622
people will get that revelation.

411
00:23:44,092 --> 00:23:48,922
Some people will click, and they will go
like Thomas from Doubting to Believing.

412
00:23:49,232 --> 00:23:52,932
They might find it hard to
explain why, but they will.

413
00:23:53,242 --> 00:23:57,702
And like Thomas, they'd be willing to
put their lives on the line for it.

414
00:23:58,167 --> 00:23:58,447
Matt Edmundson: Yeah,

415
00:23:58,517 --> 00:23:59,827
John Harding: that's
how convinced they are.

416
00:23:59,917 --> 00:24:03,957
So yeah, I suppose they're
my ramblings in response to

417
00:24:04,347 --> 00:24:06,137
connecting with a global church.

418
00:24:06,147 --> 00:24:06,567
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

419
00:24:06,787 --> 00:24:07,757
It's interesting, isn't it?

420
00:24:07,757 --> 00:24:15,557
I was standing in church this morning
thinking about Easter, thinking that I

421
00:24:15,557 --> 00:24:22,237
am one of millions of people around the
world today celebrating the resurrection

422
00:24:22,237 --> 00:24:23,717
of Christ, if not billions, right?

423
00:24:23,737 --> 00:24:24,107
Two billion.

424
00:24:24,667 --> 00:24:25,737
Yeah, billions.

425
00:24:27,647 --> 00:24:29,157
Marking the most significant day.

426
00:24:30,747 --> 00:24:34,907
And part of me, when I was thinking
about the sheer size of that, and then

427
00:24:34,907 --> 00:24:40,177
I was thinking, assuming that Jesus
died 2000 years ago, or maybe 2012

428
00:24:40,197 --> 00:24:43,767
years ago, whatever the exact number
is, 2024, we don't, I don't know,

429
00:24:43,777 --> 00:24:50,802
but, it was a while ago that I have
participated in Easter for 30 of those

430
00:24:50,872 --> 00:24:55,042
2000 years, I've had the real privilege
of participating in Easter services  as

431
00:24:55,042 --> 00:24:57,262
a Christian for 30, some of those years.

432
00:24:57,892 --> 00:25:00,502
And I thought that's a real privilege,
that's being part of history.

433
00:25:00,912 --> 00:25:05,802
And then I was thinking about the
size of the Christians around the

434
00:25:05,802 --> 00:25:09,722
world thinking, man, I'm in one sense,
I'm a very small part in a very big

435
00:25:09,782 --> 00:25:13,132
kingdom, but I'm known by the king.

436
00:25:13,462 --> 00:25:17,172
In this massive kingdom  and
there's this real massive tension.

437
00:25:17,172 --> 00:25:20,982
And so I was just thinking about that
this morning, actually in church and

438
00:25:20,982 --> 00:25:22,662
just being super, super grateful,

439
00:25:22,662 --> 00:25:22,982
John Harding: yeah.

440
00:25:23,492 --> 00:25:24,602
That's a lovely thought, Matt.

441
00:25:25,842 --> 00:25:27,132
Matt Edmundson: It's just
really interesting, isn't it?

442
00:25:27,132 --> 00:25:29,362
You're just like, yeah,
we're in this kingdom.

443
00:25:29,612 --> 00:25:30,402
We have a king.

444
00:25:31,072 --> 00:25:34,622
We are known by the king, but the
kingdom is not small and it is not

445
00:25:34,622 --> 00:25:37,002
powerless in any form or another.

446
00:25:37,597 --> 00:25:39,107
And I have the favour of that king.

447
00:25:39,117 --> 00:25:39,737
Are you mad?

448
00:25:40,607 --> 00:25:42,037
Why would I not want any part of this?

449
00:25:42,587 --> 00:25:44,457
John Harding: Sons and
daughters of that king.

450
00:25:44,577 --> 00:25:49,847
It reminds me of that quote Timothy
Candler, he says,   who would dare to wake

451
00:25:49,847 --> 00:25:52,942
a king at 3am to ask for a glass of water?

452
00:25:53,432 --> 00:25:55,442
Who would dare to go into a
king's chamber and do that?

453
00:25:55,702 --> 00:25:58,142
And he goes and say, a son
and a daughter, that's who.

454
00:25:58,912 --> 00:26:00,352
And so we have the king of the universe.

455
00:26:00,352 --> 00:26:03,732
And what he does is he
gives us access to him.

456
00:26:03,962 --> 00:26:04,322
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

457
00:26:06,232 --> 00:26:06,622
John Harding: It's amazing.

458
00:26:06,962 --> 00:26:07,872
Changes everything.

459
00:26:08,152 --> 00:26:11,202
Matt Edmundson: Oh, it changes your whole
life in so many ways, in so many ways.

460
00:26:11,782 --> 00:26:15,222
One of the questions in the
comments, is Easter a pagan service

461
00:26:15,222 --> 00:26:16,142
that Christians have hijacked?

462
00:26:16,642 --> 00:26:17,142
John Harding: No, not at all.

463
00:26:17,402 --> 00:26:19,802
Really we're talking
about a Jewish Passover.

464
00:26:20,222 --> 00:26:23,752
And I've seen all the videos
about that and all the rest of it.

465
00:26:23,782 --> 00:26:26,902
Easter and the Paganism
I'll say two things.

466
00:26:26,902 --> 00:26:32,432
First of all, I'll say the whole of Easter
is best understood in the fulfillment of

467
00:26:32,432 --> 00:26:35,612
the Passover Festival of the Jewish faith.

468
00:26:36,092 --> 00:26:42,337
Jesus as a Jew, the True Messiah
effectively re enacting the second exodus.

469
00:26:42,947 --> 00:26:45,817
So it is the fulfillment of the Passover.

470
00:26:46,337 --> 00:26:50,567
I think that one of the reasons why some
people think, oh,   Christianity in the

471
00:26:50,577 --> 00:26:56,157
UK, let's just remember how many times
this celebration piece, peace act had

472
00:26:56,157 --> 00:27:01,557
been celebrated by followers of Jesus
before Christianity came to England.

473
00:27:02,397 --> 00:27:07,857
But one of the things that missionaries
do is that they use the language and the

474
00:27:07,857 --> 00:27:13,827
culture of a place, a little bit like you
being in Alcatraz, to communicate a truth

475
00:27:13,867 --> 00:27:15,757
to people who don't understand that truth.

476
00:27:16,227 --> 00:27:20,567
And so first missionaries that came
to the UK, they took what was an

477
00:27:20,567 --> 00:27:25,777
existing pagan festival, and some of
the language and words around that,

478
00:27:26,127 --> 00:27:32,192
to effectively help the missionary
propagation and Christianization of it

479
00:27:32,202 --> 00:27:34,202
to override it with a greater truth.

480
00:27:34,727 --> 00:27:38,577
And I think that's just an effective
evangelistic missionary strategy.

481
00:27:38,907 --> 00:27:44,607
It's the idea that somehow that Christians
have got confused about what they

482
00:27:44,607 --> 00:27:51,857
believe and are somehow just reenacting
or rehashing some pagan druid type

483
00:27:51,857 --> 00:27:56,977
of activities from Western Europe is,
it just doesn't stand up to any type

484
00:27:56,977 --> 00:27:58,267
Matt Edmundson: of questioning.

485
00:27:58,682 --> 00:28:01,482
No, I'm totally with you, because
you get asked that question

486
00:28:01,482 --> 00:28:03,852
about Easter, you get asked that
question about Christmas as well.

487
00:28:03,852 --> 00:28:05,452
That's the other one that
I think is quite popular.

488
00:28:08,627 --> 00:28:11,267
One of the one of the conversations
that I mean, one of the things that

489
00:28:11,277 --> 00:28:13,277
you alluded to, let's talk about
Thomas, because I want to get into

490
00:28:13,297 --> 00:28:16,557
Thomas a little bit, because you
alluded to things about Thomas.

491
00:28:16,957 --> 00:28:19,457
One, it was okay to have doubts
and two, it's okay to ask

492
00:28:19,457 --> 00:28:20,727
questions and ask for evidence.

493
00:28:20,727 --> 00:28:24,137
And I absolutely love that.

494
00:28:24,217 --> 00:28:28,587
And I was just thinking, when sometimes
when I talk to people about their, if

495
00:28:28,587 --> 00:28:32,227
they have a faith or where their Christian
faith is at, quite a lot of people don't

496
00:28:32,227 --> 00:28:34,037
actually know what it is they think.

497
00:28:34,432 --> 00:28:38,152
Christians in some respects, as well as
those that, you maybe don't go to church.

498
00:28:38,152 --> 00:28:42,672
So I have some kind of idea like we're
talking today  with someone about how

499
00:28:42,692 --> 00:28:47,062
maybe science they're more of a scientific
worldview rather than a faith worldview.

500
00:28:47,062 --> 00:28:47,922
And I thought, that's interesting.

501
00:28:47,922 --> 00:28:52,382
Why do you feel like those are
two opposing worldviews, right?

502
00:28:52,982 --> 00:28:56,292
So there's an assumption that if
I think this, I can't think that

503
00:28:56,522 --> 00:28:57,512
without really thinking it through.

504
00:29:00,502 --> 00:29:04,502
I'm intrigued by your connection with
Thomas here because he had doubts and I

505
00:29:04,512 --> 00:29:06,002
think he recognised his doubts, didn't he?

506
00:29:06,002 --> 00:29:08,352
And I think that's really
the first starting point is

507
00:29:08,352 --> 00:29:09,742
to recognise what you think.

508
00:29:10,532 --> 00:29:14,112
John Harding: Yeah, I think you've
got to be honest with God  and

509
00:29:14,502 --> 00:29:15,722
express your doubts to him.

510
00:29:15,732 --> 00:29:16,802
That in the Psalms.

511
00:29:17,287 --> 00:29:20,387
I think it was Soren Kierkegaard I know
it was Soren Kierkegaard, who invented

512
00:29:20,387 --> 00:29:26,557
the phrase, the leap of faith, and to go
from where you are to perhaps as someone

513
00:29:26,557 --> 00:29:33,187
who doesn't believe, or has questions,
and perhaps has always thought that

514
00:29:34,137 --> 00:29:39,697
science explains everything, which is a
faith position really, to believing in

515
00:29:39,697 --> 00:29:44,207
the resurrection requires a leap and the
reason I was talking about Thomas and

516
00:29:44,207 --> 00:29:48,207
using that as an illustration is because
if you actually do the work and look

517
00:29:48,217 --> 00:29:51,717
at the evidence for the resurrection,
it's just not the sort of leap of

518
00:29:51,717 --> 00:29:53,637
faith that perhaps people think it is.

519
00:29:54,057 --> 00:30:00,757
And so I think it's helpful in today's
modern Western worldview paradigm,

520
00:30:00,787 --> 00:30:03,447
which is a tiny blip in the history
of the world, let's be honest.

521
00:30:04,227 --> 00:30:08,237
The Thomas takes and represents a
little bit more of the scientific mind,

522
00:30:08,787 --> 00:30:13,787
questioning, doubting, he wants empirical
verification, he doesn't just want to

523
00:30:13,847 --> 00:30:19,507
see, he wants to touch, he wants to see
it for himself and verify it for himself.

524
00:30:19,537 --> 00:30:27,357
That is the scientific world view and but
the thing is, Thomas is a good scientist.

525
00:30:28,782 --> 00:30:34,092
because he's willing to change what he
thinks, based on the evidence that he

526
00:30:34,092 --> 00:30:39,722
receives, rather than just some sort of
confirmation bias or something like that.

527
00:30:39,952 --> 00:30:44,692
He's willing, humble enough
to accept the outcome of his

528
00:30:44,692 --> 00:30:47,452
request and to change his mind.

529
00:30:47,872 --> 00:30:50,772
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I think, and
that's really powerful, isn't it?

530
00:30:50,862 --> 00:30:56,462
Because as again, chatting today, what
fascinates me about the book, The Case

531
00:30:56,462 --> 00:30:59,752
for Christ, because I read that early
on in my Christian sort of exploration.

532
00:30:59,752 --> 00:31:02,362
It was very powerful, very
helpful book for me, and I

533
00:31:02,442 --> 00:31:04,232
highly recommend people read it.

534
00:31:04,242 --> 00:31:07,152
There's another one called
Evidence That Demands a Verdict,

535
00:31:07,162 --> 00:31:07,792
which was a similar thing.

536
00:31:07,792 --> 00:31:08,062
Josh

537
00:31:08,082 --> 00:31:11,232
John Harding: McDowell, superb
series of books and videos,

538
00:31:11,232 --> 00:31:12,852
you've got all of them on

539
00:31:12,852 --> 00:31:13,662
Matt Edmundson: video on YouTube.

540
00:31:13,662 --> 00:31:15,102
Yeah, super, super helpful.

541
00:31:15,102 --> 00:31:18,902
People looking at the
evidence of the resurrection.

542
00:31:18,902 --> 00:31:20,322
There's a guy called J.

543
00:31:20,662 --> 00:31:23,632
Warner Wallace, I think, who
wrote Cold-Case Christianity.

544
00:31:24,212 --> 00:31:28,212
Another interesting chap, he's a
detective for a police department

545
00:31:28,272 --> 00:31:31,522
in the States,  I think he's
still an acting detective as well.

546
00:31:32,082 --> 00:31:36,272
And, for years has solved some of the
hardest cold-case murders, which are

547
00:31:36,272 --> 00:31:38,392
out there using his detectiving skills.

548
00:31:38,812 --> 00:31:42,372
And again, started out, not as a
Christian, not as a believer, was

549
00:31:42,542 --> 00:31:45,602
going to go and investigate the
resurrection, more or less, disprove it.

550
00:31:46,272 --> 00:31:50,302
Like Lee Strabel, who was a journalist,
he wanted to look at the evidence for

551
00:31:50,302 --> 00:31:53,082
the resurrection, was going to disprove
it, because I think, was it a girlfriend

552
00:31:53,082 --> 00:31:55,592
or somebody had become a Christian
and he wasn't that happy with it?

553
00:31:56,142 --> 00:31:59,182
So he went away and looked The
Evidence, the same with Josh McDowell

554
00:31:59,182 --> 00:32:01,022
in Evidence that Demands a Verdict.

555
00:32:01,372 --> 00:32:05,632
And the outcome of all of that is
they all looked at it and went, Oh the

556
00:32:05,632 --> 00:32:07,612
evidence is compelling, isn't it, really?

557
00:32:07,722 --> 00:32:12,952
And so they all had a massive change of
position and have consequently gone on

558
00:32:12,952 --> 00:32:16,042
to become quite significant apologists,
I think, for the Christian faith, people

559
00:32:16,042 --> 00:32:17,552
who will defend the Christian faith.

560
00:32:18,392 --> 00:32:22,062
John Harding: Yeah, and it's just not true
to say that you can't have a scientific

561
00:32:22,062 --> 00:32:26,372
mind or be a highly scientific qualified
person and not believe and I was looking

562
00:32:26,382 --> 00:32:30,262
around as I was preaching about the
resurrection looking at people with all

563
00:32:30,262 --> 00:32:37,212
sorts of PhDs in biology And that sort
of stuff in the frontline community

564
00:32:38,207 --> 00:32:42,797
And there are far greater minds than
anyone I've ever met that uphold the

565
00:32:42,917 --> 00:32:46,977
basic tenets of the Christian faith,
and believe these things to be true.

566
00:32:47,267 --> 00:32:48,337
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.

567
00:32:49,037 --> 00:32:51,017
I can't remember the chap's
name, there's a guy that head

568
00:32:51,017 --> 00:32:53,797
up the Human Genome Project.

569
00:32:54,727 --> 00:32:57,207
He was a guy that started out
as an atheist, wasn't he, when

570
00:32:57,207 --> 00:32:58,527
he started the actual project?

571
00:33:00,207 --> 00:33:01,037
What's his name?

572
00:33:01,507 --> 00:33:01,562
yeah, absolutely.

573
00:33:01,562 --> 00:33:01,597
Absolutely.

574
00:33:02,267 --> 00:33:03,137
It'll come back to me.

575
00:33:03,457 --> 00:33:07,217
Somebody will put it in the comments,
but he basically, he set out the human

576
00:33:07,227 --> 00:33:11,057
genome project and then became a Christian
as he was going through it, because

577
00:33:11,057 --> 00:33:13,597
he was looking actually at scientific
information and data going, there

578
00:33:13,607 --> 00:33:15,627
has to be something more behind this.

579
00:33:16,432 --> 00:33:18,312
And so it's really interesting
listening to his story.

580
00:33:18,312 --> 00:33:19,432
So yeah I totally get it.

581
00:33:19,432 --> 00:33:22,612
That actually the mindset is to go
look at this, look at the story, look

582
00:33:22,612 --> 00:33:26,002
at the evidence for yourself, do the
research, understand what it is you think.

583
00:33:27,232 --> 00:33:31,862
But then actually be open to make
a decision based on that evidence.

584
00:33:32,702 --> 00:33:37,542
John Harding: And I would say to
anyone, put God to the test in this.

585
00:33:37,652 --> 00:33:41,122
And the Bible says, do not test
the Lord your God, but other

586
00:33:41,122 --> 00:33:42,662
times we're allowed to test him.

587
00:33:42,902 --> 00:33:43,212
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

588
00:33:43,532 --> 00:33:44,672
John Harding: In the sense that.

589
00:33:45,362 --> 00:33:48,412
If you're really searching, ask God.

590
00:33:48,762 --> 00:33:51,542
Say, God, if you are real, help me.

591
00:33:51,562 --> 00:33:53,372
If you're real, reveal yourself to me.

592
00:33:53,372 --> 00:33:56,302
If you're real, take me on that
journey of discovering you.

593
00:33:56,692 --> 00:33:59,852
I would honestly put God's
reputation on the line in doing that.

594
00:33:59,852 --> 00:34:03,852
I believe it's something that actually
Jesus delights in responding to.

595
00:34:04,522 --> 00:34:08,702
So all of these people we've mentioned,
they've had open, searching, inquisitive

596
00:34:09,032 --> 00:34:13,827
hearts, and in that search, It's
the Lord Jesus that has been leading

597
00:34:13,827 --> 00:34:17,767
them towards himself, and I think
the Lord Jesus would do that for

598
00:34:17,787 --> 00:34:20,527
anyone who is searching and asking.

599
00:34:20,967 --> 00:34:22,537
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I totally agree.

600
00:34:22,617 --> 00:34:23,167
I totally agree.

601
00:34:23,427 --> 00:34:26,147
I think the only thing that I would
say is just be a little bit careful.

602
00:34:26,367 --> 00:34:29,757
I've come across quite a few people
that have gone, God, if you're real,

603
00:34:30,177 --> 00:34:32,522
then make this happen in my life.

604
00:34:32,642 --> 00:34:34,152
Like it's a conditional type thing.

605
00:34:34,652 --> 00:34:38,982
And I think perhaps a better prayer is,
God, if you're real, reveal yourself

606
00:34:38,982 --> 00:34:42,652
to me and then just be aware of
unexpected ways that he will do that.

607
00:34:43,277 --> 00:34:45,317
John Harding: Yeah, or
let me know your love.

608
00:34:45,687 --> 00:34:46,177
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

609
00:34:46,647 --> 00:34:46,827
John Harding: Yeah.

610
00:34:46,837 --> 00:34:50,167
One of our obstacles for humanity
and you're absolutely right, Matt.

611
00:34:50,217 --> 00:34:52,187
And I think that's why it's
good to have a conversation

612
00:34:52,187 --> 00:34:53,767
and clarify each other's ideas.

613
00:34:54,047 --> 00:34:59,597
I think one of our obstacles to
really knowing God is a reality in his

614
00:34:59,647 --> 00:35:07,017
presence is our human sinfulness,  the
fact we are not holy as God is holy.

615
00:35:07,082 --> 00:35:12,122
And so another powerful prayer is to
really seek God and say, God cleanse

616
00:35:12,122 --> 00:35:16,212
me of my sin, purify me because
of the work of Jesus on the cross.

617
00:35:16,572 --> 00:35:20,132
And it is incredible when, and
we often use the four points,

618
00:35:20,132 --> 00:35:21,602
don't we, to talk about that.

619
00:35:21,602 --> 00:35:24,202
And you can just Google the four points.

620
00:35:24,602 --> 00:35:26,702
Sin might seem like an old fashioned word.

621
00:35:26,702 --> 00:35:28,262
We're not going around telling
people they're sinners.

622
00:35:28,312 --> 00:35:33,692
We're just saying all humans, have fallen
short of God's perfect standard and a

623
00:35:34,082 --> 00:35:36,042
holy God does not associate with sin.

624
00:35:36,582 --> 00:35:40,412
And so when we invite him to come
and cleanse us, when we invite him to

625
00:35:40,432 --> 00:35:44,152
come and purify us, the religious word
for that we might use is repentance.

626
00:35:45,192 --> 00:35:45,482
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

627
00:35:45,572 --> 00:35:48,902
John Harding: It is in those
moments, let me tell you that we most

628
00:35:48,952 --> 00:35:50,962
powerfully encounter his presence.

629
00:35:51,062 --> 00:35:51,432
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

630
00:35:51,942 --> 00:35:52,302
Yeah.

631
00:35:52,712 --> 00:35:53,402
Absolutely.

632
00:35:53,502 --> 00:35:54,132
Absolutely.

633
00:35:54,422 --> 00:35:55,972
And it's amazing stuff, isn't it?

634
00:35:55,972 --> 00:35:57,392
And this is what Easter is all about.

635
00:35:57,492 --> 00:36:01,992
You sit there at Easter and you're just
like, the Resurrection, I think it was

636
00:36:02,272 --> 00:36:04,932
the Apostle Paul said, and we've talked
about this before on Crowd, but the

637
00:36:04,932 --> 00:36:10,192
Apostle Paul said, if the resurrection is
not real, then our preaching is in vain.

638
00:36:10,192 --> 00:36:11,832
In fact, your whole faith is futile.

639
00:36:13,877 --> 00:36:18,227
And the resurrection then is the central
point, isn't it, to Christianity.

640
00:36:18,237 --> 00:36:20,257
If there's no resurrection,
there's no Christianity.

641
00:36:20,857 --> 00:36:24,197
And I read this great I can't remember
who said it, but I've used it many times.

642
00:36:24,207 --> 00:36:27,507
So I'd love to give them credit, but it's
this question, there's no doubt in the

643
00:36:27,507 --> 00:36:30,387
minds of many scholars that Jesus lived.

644
00:36:30,907 --> 00:36:33,157
In fact, most people would
now agree that Jesus lived.

645
00:36:33,197 --> 00:36:35,657
There are very few people that
will look at the evidence and

646
00:36:35,667 --> 00:36:37,067
go that Jesus was not real.

647
00:36:37,647 --> 00:36:40,307
We know that Jesus lived and
therefore we know that he died.

648
00:36:40,812 --> 00:36:43,202
The question is not whether Jesus
lived and died, the question is

649
00:36:43,202 --> 00:36:45,912
whether Jesus died then lived, right?

650
00:36:46,582 --> 00:36:49,757
And it all comes down to the Resurrection.

651
00:36:49,797 --> 00:36:52,447
Was the Resurrection real?

652
00:36:52,447 --> 00:36:55,647
Because if it isn't, then the
whole Christian faith is futile.

653
00:36:55,647 --> 00:36:57,247
And actually the Bible talks
about that, doesn't it?

654
00:36:58,517 --> 00:36:59,257
John Harding: Absolutely.

655
00:36:59,257 --> 00:37:03,037
It's, and I think that we've, if
you're a follower of Jesus, I'd

656
00:37:03,037 --> 00:37:06,457
really encourage you we've got to
force the issue more in society.

657
00:37:06,847 --> 00:37:11,197
We're not just a bunch of nice people
who believe a nice story of a set

658
00:37:11,207 --> 00:37:13,057
of religious rules and regulations.

659
00:37:13,057 --> 00:37:15,127
That is not what Christianity is.

660
00:37:15,362 --> 00:37:19,152
It really isn't, and Jesus and the
Gospel certainly leave no scope

661
00:37:19,152 --> 00:37:20,632
for that of the New Testament.

662
00:37:21,082 --> 00:37:23,792
We believe in some outrageous claims.

663
00:37:24,112 --> 00:37:27,662
We believe that God came to Earth,
like we're saying in the talk, and we

664
00:37:27,662 --> 00:37:31,612
believe that He died for us, and we
believe He rose again on the third day.

665
00:37:31,872 --> 00:37:35,562
These are we believe things
that are unbelievable.

666
00:37:36,087 --> 00:37:39,727
But we believe by faith, we have
that conviction and that living

667
00:37:39,727 --> 00:37:43,667
reality because of our experience
of Jesus, our encounter with Jesus.

668
00:37:43,667 --> 00:37:48,517
His story becomes our story
and that's why we believe.

669
00:37:48,787 --> 00:37:53,587
We're not just believing like a
series of like plausible ideas.

670
00:37:53,902 --> 00:37:54,912
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.

671
00:37:55,162 --> 00:37:56,412
The Apostle Paul put
it this way, didn't he?

672
00:37:56,412 --> 00:37:59,652
He said, I pray that you would know the
length, breadth, depth, height of the love

673
00:37:59,652 --> 00:38:01,282
of God, which surpasses all understanding.

674
00:38:01,882 --> 00:38:06,412
And when he talks about knowing
the love of God, it's knowing not

675
00:38:06,422 --> 00:38:07,992
just here, but here, isn't it?

676
00:38:07,992 --> 00:38:09,612
It's an experiential type thing.

677
00:38:09,612 --> 00:38:10,402
It's a head knowledge.

678
00:38:10,402 --> 00:38:11,342
It's a heart knowledge.

679
00:38:12,082 --> 00:38:18,472
You could know that your parents love
you but that doesn't mean that to

680
00:38:18,472 --> 00:38:20,072
know that means to experience that.

681
00:38:20,102 --> 00:38:22,652
Otherwise it's all, it doesn't
make any kind of sense, does it?

682
00:38:22,652 --> 00:38:25,502
If you don't experience the
love, it doesn't really work out.

683
00:38:25,502 --> 00:38:26,482
So I think you're totally right.

684
00:38:26,482 --> 00:38:32,352
There is this experience when you come to
God, which you experience the love of God.

685
00:38:32,352 --> 00:38:35,902
And I think praying that prayer, if
you're not in church, if you're not a

686
00:38:35,902 --> 00:38:38,532
Christian yet, and you're searching.

687
00:38:38,827 --> 00:38:42,487
You're looking for the evidence as
you're searching to say God, I pray

688
00:38:42,487 --> 00:38:46,417
that I experience, show me, help me
experience the love of God in some way.

689
00:38:47,622 --> 00:38:49,082
I think it's really powerful stuff.

690
00:38:49,082 --> 00:38:52,442
So yeah, I think in fact, let
me just check in the comments.

691
00:38:52,442 --> 00:38:55,442
Miriam says here, oh, she says, by
the way, she loves I love you, John

692
00:38:55,452 --> 00:38:56,742
Harding and Matt Edmundson so much.

693
00:38:56,762 --> 00:38:57,432
Bless you, Miriam.

694
00:38:57,502 --> 00:38:58,322
That's super cute.

695
00:38:58,332 --> 00:38:58,882
I love that.

696
00:38:59,172 --> 00:38:59,442
Yeah.

697
00:38:59,442 --> 00:39:00,512
She's an absolute legend.

698
00:39:00,762 --> 00:39:05,362
I've heard so many people say that
we need to ask God who he is rather

699
00:39:05,362 --> 00:39:07,792
than do this or do that for me.

700
00:39:07,922 --> 00:39:09,532
Which I think is a fair comment, isn't it?

701
00:39:09,532 --> 00:39:11,032
It's like God reveals who you are.

702
00:39:11,632 --> 00:39:11,962
John Harding: Yeah.

703
00:39:12,567 --> 00:39:12,847
Yeah.

704
00:39:13,087 --> 00:39:13,247
Yeah.

705
00:39:13,597 --> 00:39:14,417
God is love.

706
00:39:14,557 --> 00:39:15,257
Exactly.

707
00:39:15,577 --> 00:39:18,877
And I think that's really, some
really good learning for us, isn't it?

708
00:39:19,187 --> 00:39:21,837
We seek his face first, not his hand.

709
00:39:22,147 --> 00:39:27,157
And if you're just like in a desperate
situation saying, God, get me out of this.

710
00:39:27,347 --> 00:39:30,167
Maybe not, but really he's
looking for relationship.

711
00:39:30,837 --> 00:39:31,147
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

712
00:39:31,147 --> 00:39:32,337
That's what he's looking for.

713
00:39:32,417 --> 00:39:33,327
Yeah, absolutely.

714
00:39:33,847 --> 00:39:37,427
Matt's put, I love that Jesus chooses to
connect with us through the brokenness.

715
00:39:38,427 --> 00:39:38,737
Amen.

716
00:39:39,557 --> 00:39:41,151
Yeah, what do you think he means by that?

717
00:39:41,151 --> 00:39:44,111
John Harding: You would have to
ask him, but I do agree with it.

718
00:39:44,141 --> 00:39:44,911
That's what I'm saying.

719
00:39:44,941 --> 00:39:45,291
Amen.

720
00:39:45,491 --> 00:39:49,781
I think, Jesus himself said, it's
not the health you need a doctor.

721
00:39:50,011 --> 00:39:54,321
And really what I've learned in life
is it is my own flaws and failures

722
00:39:54,341 --> 00:39:59,066
and weaknesses and shortcomings, it's
in those spaces where I recognize

723
00:39:59,246 --> 00:40:02,316
that I encounter most of God's
presence and most of God's love.

724
00:40:02,606 --> 00:40:03,426
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.

725
00:40:03,456 --> 00:40:04,556
Such a powerful point.

726
00:40:04,586 --> 00:40:06,206
Such a powerful point.

727
00:40:07,176 --> 00:40:09,796
It's interesting, isn't it, when
you're the church pastor, you're the

728
00:40:09,796 --> 00:40:13,186
church leader, and you're in the run
up to Easter, you're thinking about

729
00:40:13,196 --> 00:40:14,886
all kinds of different things, right?

730
00:40:14,896 --> 00:40:17,156
Because Easter is like I say,
the most significant, we love

731
00:40:17,156 --> 00:40:19,496
Christmas, we love Easter, the two
things that Christians really like.

732
00:40:20,116 --> 00:40:23,626
And you're, you're running up to
Easter with your church leaders hat on.

733
00:40:23,626 --> 00:40:26,946
But that aside, John, as you're
approaching Easter, what's

734
00:40:26,946 --> 00:40:28,286
your personal meditation?

735
00:40:28,286 --> 00:40:29,686
What's your personal prayer?

736
00:40:30,046 --> 00:40:32,346
What are some of the things
that you're thinking about?

737
00:40:34,086 --> 00:40:36,206
John Harding: Like we are from
a church tradition that might

738
00:40:36,206 --> 00:40:37,916
be considered quite modern.

739
00:40:38,466 --> 00:40:41,896
Might be considered evangelical,
might be considered charismatic,

740
00:40:41,926 --> 00:40:43,866
we don't do tradition very well.

741
00:40:44,426 --> 00:40:48,106
This deal with my family and my
wife that I can't get up that early

742
00:40:48,106 --> 00:40:49,996
with my resurrection playlist.

743
00:40:50,046 --> 00:40:54,536
Like I am just up at the crack of dawn
on Easter Sunday because everything in

744
00:40:54,566 --> 00:41:02,566
me is so excited and so joyful at the
reality that I've experienced in my own

745
00:41:02,566 --> 00:41:04,786
personal resurrection from death to life.

746
00:41:04,786 --> 00:41:05,486
Yeah.

747
00:41:06,656 --> 00:41:10,676
One of the things I love about
the traditional church and the

748
00:41:10,676 --> 00:41:15,556
liturgical church is that the church
calendar through Lent, that 40 day

749
00:41:15,596 --> 00:41:21,736
period of mourning, prepares us for
the celebration of Easter Sunday.

750
00:41:21,776 --> 00:41:25,266
And often when we don't go through that,
I've been in church services on Easter

751
00:41:25,506 --> 00:41:29,266
Sunday where we felt like we have to
tell the whole story and sing about

752
00:41:29,456 --> 00:41:33,496
the cross and Good Friday, for example,
which I'm not saying we shouldn't do.

753
00:41:33,746 --> 00:41:34,496
I'm just saying.

754
00:41:34,926 --> 00:41:38,996
We have these moments that are
punctuated that allow us to celebrate

755
00:41:39,256 --> 00:41:41,826
the different parts of the story.

756
00:41:41,846 --> 00:41:42,336
Yeah.

757
00:41:42,876 --> 00:41:48,476
I try to do that in various ways
we went to the Cathedral for

758
00:41:48,536 --> 00:41:51,136
Communion on Friday, Good Friday,

759
00:41:51,226 --> 00:41:51,526
Matt Edmundson: yeah,

760
00:41:51,616 --> 00:41:53,646
John Harding: to serve
celebrate communion together.

761
00:41:53,996 --> 00:42:00,521
Holy Saturday for me, honestly, the
Saturday between Good Friday, the death

762
00:42:00,521 --> 00:42:06,381
of Jesus and Easter Sunday is so important
because all of our lives are lived,

763
00:42:06,601 --> 00:42:09,061
as it were, in a Holy Saturday moment.

764
00:42:09,071 --> 00:42:12,251
You've got the tragedy of the
cross, the brokenness of the

765
00:42:12,251 --> 00:42:16,181
cross, where everyone genuinely
thought that the story had ended.

766
00:42:17,026 --> 00:42:23,006
It was hope had gone, it was like, this is
it, this is all, and then you've got this

767
00:42:23,116 --> 00:42:29,856
Easter Sunday celebration, but they didn't
know that it was coming, and so most of

768
00:42:29,876 --> 00:42:35,706
life is in the space between Good Friday
and Easter Sunday, we're at that point of

769
00:42:35,836 --> 00:42:41,576
waiting for the promise to be fulfilled,
and so I like to engage with that.

770
00:42:42,026 --> 00:42:48,116
Over that weekend, I like to have a more
quiet, reflective type of day on that day.

771
00:42:48,406 --> 00:42:52,126
Full disclosure we're doing a full
house renovation, so I was up at

772
00:42:52,126 --> 00:42:55,566
the crack of dawn on Saturday,
shifting bricks and stuff like that.

773
00:42:55,566 --> 00:42:56,016
Yeah.

774
00:42:56,106 --> 00:42:56,466
Yeah.

775
00:42:56,706 --> 00:42:57,726
Stuff you've gotta do with the

776
00:42:57,726 --> 00:42:59,081
Matt Edmundson: renovation,
stuff you've gotta do,

777
00:42:59,191 --> 00:43:04,286
John Harding: but I do think Lend takes
us on that journey of longing and waiting.

778
00:43:04,346 --> 00:43:04,736
Yeah.

779
00:43:04,786 --> 00:43:05,686
Matt Edmundson: For the breakthrough.

780
00:43:06,161 --> 00:43:06,641
Yeah.

781
00:43:07,021 --> 00:43:11,571
And that's super powerful , you're living
in that tension between Friday and Sunday.

782
00:43:11,991 --> 00:43:15,711
And if there's anything, the thing I love
about the resurrection is, and we see this

783
00:43:15,711 --> 00:43:20,476
in the life of Thomas and you drew to that
is here was a man that went from doubting.

784
00:43:21,416 --> 00:43:25,746
to utter transformation, to
the point where he was willing

785
00:43:25,746 --> 00:43:28,606
to die and be martyred for his
faith, along with all the others.

786
00:43:28,656 --> 00:43:31,396
If it was a hoax, he would have
caught, why would you die for a hoax?

787
00:43:31,396 --> 00:43:32,236
You just wouldn't, would you?

788
00:43:32,236 --> 00:43:33,076
I just, I don't see.

789
00:43:33,076 --> 00:43:33,406
John Harding: You'd recant.

790
00:43:33,766 --> 00:43:35,056
You'd recant.

791
00:43:35,136 --> 00:43:36,296
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.

792
00:43:36,726 --> 00:43:39,056
And he didn't, and his
life was transformed.

793
00:43:39,056 --> 00:43:42,246
And that's, for me, one of
the most compelling things.

794
00:43:42,246 --> 00:43:47,566
And I sit back at Easter and I thank God
for the resurrection of Christ, I do, and

795
00:43:47,566 --> 00:43:49,546
I thank God that my life is transformed.

796
00:43:49,606 --> 00:43:54,646
I'm not where I need to be, but my
life is definitely transformed, and the

797
00:43:54,646 --> 00:43:56,806
power of transformation is incredible.

798
00:43:57,456 --> 00:44:00,946
John Harding: If you think about
it, Matt a person's biggest issue is

799
00:44:00,956 --> 00:44:06,126
not that they are sinful and need to
be not sinful or bad and need to be

800
00:44:06,126 --> 00:44:08,076
good or broken and need to be fixed.

801
00:44:08,516 --> 00:44:11,356
I think the Bible's quite
helpful in understanding the

802
00:44:11,356 --> 00:44:12,846
fundamental nature of humans.

803
00:44:12,906 --> 00:44:16,116
Our biggest issue without Jesus
is that we're spiritually dead.

804
00:44:16,641 --> 00:44:17,021
Matt Edmundson: Yeah,

805
00:44:17,361 --> 00:44:19,441
John Harding: in need of
a spiritual resurrection.

806
00:44:19,761 --> 00:44:20,121
Matt Edmundson: Yeah,

807
00:44:20,441 --> 00:44:24,211
John Harding: and so in that sense
Jesus becomes the first fruits

808
00:44:24,211 --> 00:44:25,761
the Old Testament prophesies.

809
00:44:25,761 --> 00:44:30,541
It'll be the first fruits of resurrection
and so when we receive Christ what happens

810
00:44:30,571 --> 00:44:34,001
is the resurrected Christ resurrects us.

811
00:44:34,701 --> 00:44:37,636
Baptism is a reenactment
retelling of that.

812
00:44:37,856 --> 00:44:42,616
It shows that we've come out of a
grave and our souls, our very spirits

813
00:44:42,616 --> 00:44:46,166
have been made alive in Christ.

814
00:44:46,936 --> 00:44:50,016
And so we're talking from a
different perspective here.

815
00:44:50,016 --> 00:44:56,056
We're talking about people whose spirits
have been woken up into a new reality

816
00:44:56,366 --> 00:44:59,366
to be able to relate to the living God.

817
00:44:59,966 --> 00:45:02,956
And so why wouldn't we
be excited and want the

818
00:45:02,956 --> 00:45:03,456
Matt Edmundson: world to know that?

819
00:45:04,511 --> 00:45:05,751
Yeah, absolutely.

820
00:45:06,541 --> 00:45:08,901
Paul said it best, I have
been crucified with Christ.

821
00:45:08,901 --> 00:45:11,721
It's no longer I who live, but
Christ who lives within me.

822
00:45:12,171 --> 00:45:16,331
And I think that's the power of it
is that it's the wonder, the marvel

823
00:45:16,731 --> 00:45:20,091
that the resurrected King now lives
inside each and every one of us.

824
00:45:20,661 --> 00:45:22,241
Talk about transformation, right?

825
00:45:22,281 --> 00:45:25,061
It's just a powerful thing
to meditate and think about.

826
00:45:25,601 --> 00:45:28,271
Miriam says that what
was it she said here?

827
00:45:28,271 --> 00:45:31,031
So she was up at five this
morning for a walk with her

828
00:45:31,041 --> 00:45:33,171
friends to watch the sunrise.

829
00:45:33,171 --> 00:45:36,551
They did a sunrise service near
her house, which is a great idea.

830
00:45:37,111 --> 00:45:43,341
Peter in Spain, we had the foot washing on
Maundy Thursday and a Eucharist service.

831
00:45:43,651 --> 00:45:45,101
Also a service on Friday.

832
00:45:45,421 --> 00:45:47,901
Then a celebration service
this morning, the gathering of

833
00:45:47,901 --> 00:45:48,991
our three churches together.

834
00:45:49,011 --> 00:45:52,361
It was awesome.

835
00:45:52,621 --> 00:45:54,151
Pastor Alexander's in the comments.

836
00:45:54,151 --> 00:45:57,571
Happy Easter to Pastors John
and Matt and all the brothers.

837
00:45:57,621 --> 00:45:59,941
And so happy Easter to
you, Pastor Alexander.

838
00:45:59,941 --> 00:46:01,061
It's great to see you.

839
00:46:01,062 --> 00:46:02,261
Happy Easter, Pastor Alexander.

840
00:46:02,711 --> 00:46:03,931
Yeah, it's great that you're here.

841
00:46:03,931 --> 00:46:07,261
Yeah, whatever you do to
celebrate Easter, celebrate it,

842
00:46:07,311 --> 00:46:08,931
because it is a celebratory day.

843
00:46:08,971 --> 00:46:10,581
Christ has risen.

844
00:46:10,581 --> 00:46:11,751
He has risen indeed.

845
00:46:12,241 --> 00:46:15,781
And that has amazing impact on you,
and it has amazing impact on me.

846
00:46:15,781 --> 00:46:18,811
And if you've yet to experience the
resurrection of Christ, obviously

847
00:46:18,811 --> 00:46:20,771
we invite you to, as we've been
talking about all day, just to go

848
00:46:20,841 --> 00:46:23,501
have a look, figure it out, check
out the evidence, see for yourself.

849
00:46:23,501 --> 00:46:26,491
And if you've got any questions,
feel free to reach out to either

850
00:46:26,491 --> 00:46:28,311
John or myself here at Crowd Church.

851
00:46:28,311 --> 00:46:29,711
We would love to talk to you.

852
00:46:30,091 --> 00:46:31,701
In fact, I'll put that on the screen now.

853
00:46:32,426 --> 00:46:34,396
You can reach us at www.

854
00:46:34,446 --> 00:46:34,816
crowd.

855
00:46:35,096 --> 00:46:40,516
church or on the social media platforms
Instagram and Facebook at crowd church.

856
00:46:40,916 --> 00:46:41,986
I think we're also on TikTok.

857
00:46:41,986 --> 00:46:44,986
In fact, I know we're on TikTok
because did I tell you this, John,

858
00:46:44,986 --> 00:46:46,936
that Stormzy reposted Dan Orange's?

859
00:46:48,566 --> 00:46:49,316
Sorry about that.

860
00:46:49,436 --> 00:46:52,736
I'm getting a bit carried away,
but yeah, Stormzy reposted.

861
00:46:52,776 --> 00:46:54,186
So we know, I know we're on TikTok.

862
00:46:54,326 --> 00:46:54,562
So yes.

863
00:46:54,562 --> 00:46:55,136
I did not know

864
00:46:55,746 --> 00:46:55,776
John Harding: that.

865
00:46:56,121 --> 00:46:56,761
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

866
00:46:56,761 --> 00:46:57,021
Yeah.

867
00:46:57,041 --> 00:47:00,141
Dan Orange did a little chat
on prayer and, we take little

868
00:47:00,141 --> 00:47:03,011
clips from the talk, so there'd
be a clip from your Easter talk.

869
00:47:03,381 --> 00:47:05,626
And we put it out on
social media and stuff.

870
00:47:05,631 --> 00:47:08,116
And yeah, Stormzy, he reposted
Dan Orange's chat on prayer.

871
00:47:08,386 --> 00:47:13,426
Dan Orange walked about a foot taller
for about a week, as he went viral

872
00:47:13,426 --> 00:47:14,746
a little bit, which was amazing.

873
00:47:15,266 --> 00:47:15,656
But yeah.

874
00:47:15,686 --> 00:47:16,196
No, that's cool.

875
00:47:16,196 --> 00:47:19,106
So reach out to us on social
media at Crowd Church.

876
00:47:19,106 --> 00:47:23,321
We would love to hear from you if
you've got any questions whatsoever.

877
00:47:23,321 --> 00:47:28,151
And of course, let me just also tell you
that if you'd like to join us during the

878
00:47:28,151 --> 00:47:29,741
week, we would love to hear from you.

879
00:47:29,741 --> 00:47:33,021
We have midweek groups that you can
join us on Zoom community groups.

880
00:47:33,371 --> 00:47:36,361
And if you are exploring Christianity,
and you want to know more about it we are

881
00:47:36,361 --> 00:47:40,141
running an online alpha course, which it
is not too late for you to come and join.

882
00:47:40,141 --> 00:47:42,911
If you would like to do that,
just head over to crowd.

883
00:47:43,221 --> 00:47:47,191
church forward slash alpha, and you'll
find out more information about that.

884
00:47:47,191 --> 00:47:49,081
We're on week four be great.

885
00:47:49,081 --> 00:47:51,931
No, week three, actually, we're
going to do, Why Did Jesus Die?

886
00:47:51,981 --> 00:47:54,591
Great time to come and join us if
you want to find out more about the

887
00:47:54,591 --> 00:47:56,651
Christian faith as we go through that.

888
00:47:56,891 --> 00:47:58,641
That's on a Wednesday evening, 8.

889
00:47:59,061 --> 00:48:01,541
30pm UK time.

890
00:48:02,121 --> 00:48:04,331
We are running that online
now, so that'd be great.

891
00:48:04,331 --> 00:48:06,471
See, I think there's 8, 10
people registered for that, so

892
00:48:06,541 --> 00:48:07,481
if you want to come join us.

893
00:48:07,961 --> 00:48:09,421
We'd love to see you in there.

894
00:48:09,471 --> 00:48:10,281
Absolutely.

895
00:48:10,661 --> 00:48:12,021
What is coming up next week?

896
00:48:12,051 --> 00:48:13,441
I'm being reminded to tell you.

897
00:48:13,711 --> 00:48:14,721
What did I say it was, John?

898
00:48:14,731 --> 00:48:15,121
Do you remember?

899
00:48:15,121 --> 00:48:15,721
Oh, it's Dave Connolly.

900
00:48:15,731 --> 00:48:15,971
Dave

901
00:48:16,031 --> 00:48:16,631
John Harding: Connolly.

902
00:48:16,811 --> 00:48:19,471
Dave Connolly's speaking as
part of the wholeness series.

903
00:48:19,531 --> 00:48:24,791
And when you said that, I thought he's
bringing such a wealth of experience

904
00:48:24,801 --> 00:48:27,241
and wisdom to talk about wholeness.

905
00:48:27,241 --> 00:48:28,811
So I'm looking forward to that.

906
00:48:29,256 --> 00:48:30,366
Matt Edmundson: Yeah,
he's going to be with us.

907
00:48:30,366 --> 00:48:33,136
And so do make sure you join us for that.

908
00:48:33,136 --> 00:48:36,576
Make sure you like and subscribe to Crowd
Church wherever you're watching this from,

909
00:48:36,576 --> 00:48:40,146
listening to on the podcast, wherever
it is, just stay connected with us.

910
00:48:40,166 --> 00:48:42,356
It'll be great to stay connected with you.

911
00:48:42,896 --> 00:48:46,176
Oh, I've just been reminded there is
no midweek Zoom prayer meeting Zoom

912
00:48:46,176 --> 00:48:48,646
this week because it's the Easter
holidays, but Alpha is happening.

913
00:48:48,656 --> 00:48:49,826
That's a fair point, actually.

914
00:48:49,836 --> 00:48:50,926
Thanks, Matt, for the reminder.

915
00:48:51,596 --> 00:48:53,406
I get it all wrong, John, all the time.

916
00:48:53,406 --> 00:48:53,636
I get it.

917
00:48:53,686 --> 00:48:56,461
I don't know why they give these to me,
I do, cause I'm going to get it wrong.

918
00:48:56,941 --> 00:49:01,491
Ah, that's awesome.

919
00:49:01,531 --> 00:49:03,961
John, anything else from you,
man, on this Easter Sunday?

920
00:49:04,691 --> 00:49:08,311
John Harding: Only to say,
have a blessed Easter.

921
00:49:08,521 --> 00:49:12,131
And if you've got Bank Holiday
Monday off, use it to draw

922
00:49:12,131 --> 00:49:13,521
close to Jesus a little bit.

923
00:49:13,951 --> 00:49:15,201
Matt Edmundson: Yeah,
that's a really good idea.

924
00:49:15,241 --> 00:49:17,121
For those of you in the UK, if
you're outside of the UK, you have

925
00:49:17,121 --> 00:49:19,581
no idea what we're talking about,
basically, we get tomorrow off.

926
00:49:19,581 --> 00:49:21,001
It's like a national holiday, isn't it?

927
00:49:21,391 --> 00:49:21,891
Easter Monday.

928
00:49:22,061 --> 00:49:23,361
It's a long weekend.

929
00:49:23,371 --> 00:49:25,981
I don't know if we have any other long
weekends, but we get Good Fridayand

930
00:49:26,931 --> 00:49:28,171
then Easter Monday off as well.

931
00:49:28,181 --> 00:49:32,081
So yeah, just relax to Sabbath a
little bit and just think about

932
00:49:32,081 --> 00:49:35,851
the resurrection of Christ and
Christ in you, your hope of glory.

933
00:49:36,101 --> 00:49:37,291
Be great to think about that.

934
00:49:37,331 --> 00:49:37,961
Absolutely.

935
00:49:38,021 --> 00:49:38,681
Good point, John.

936
00:49:39,031 --> 00:49:40,401
Thank you so much for joining me, brother.

937
00:49:40,401 --> 00:49:42,881
It's been fantastic as always.

938
00:49:42,881 --> 00:49:45,621
You are an absolute legend and
thank you for going all the way to

939
00:49:45,621 --> 00:49:46,911
India just to do that talk for us.

940
00:49:46,941 --> 00:49:47,741
It was really you.

941
00:49:49,291 --> 00:49:50,171
Always a pleasure.

942
00:49:51,746 --> 00:49:54,266
Alright boys and girls, have a fantastic
week wherever you are in the world.

943
00:49:54,316 --> 00:49:56,126
I'll see you next week.

944
00:49:56,126 --> 00:49:57,246
Happy Easter.

945
00:49:57,446 --> 00:49:58,346
He is risen.

946
00:49:58,386 --> 00:49:59,786
He is risen indeed.

947
00:50:00,156 --> 00:50:01,286
Thank you so much for joining us.

948
00:50:01,456 --> 00:50:01,826
Bless you.

949
00:50:02,006 --> 00:50:02,336
Bye for now.

950
00:50:04,306 --> 00:50:08,086
Thank you so much for joining
us here on Crowd Church.

951
00:50:08,446 --> 00:50:13,346
Now if you are watching on YouTube, make
sure you hit the subscribe button, as well

952
00:50:13,346 --> 00:50:19,351
as that little tiny bell notification to
get notified The next time we are live.

953
00:50:19,431 --> 00:50:23,661
And of course, if you are listening to
the podcast the live stream podcast, make

954
00:50:23,661 --> 00:50:30,101
sure you also hit the follow button now
by smashing the like button on YouTube or

955
00:50:30,101 --> 00:50:33,371
writing a review on your podcast platform.

956
00:50:33,561 --> 00:50:37,291
It helps us reach more people
with the message that Jesus

957
00:50:37,291 --> 00:50:41,836
really does help us live a more
meaningful, and purposeful life.

958
00:50:42,186 --> 00:50:48,366
So if you haven't done so already,
be sure to check out our website www.

959
00:50:48,436 --> 00:50:48,786
crowd.

960
00:50:49,086 --> 00:50:53,736
church where you can learn more
about us as a church, more about

961
00:50:53,736 --> 00:50:58,696
the Christian faith, and also how to
connect into our church community.

962
00:50:59,436 --> 00:51:04,761
It has been awesome to connect
with you and you are awesome.

963
00:51:04,921 --> 00:51:09,951
It's just a burden you have to bear
and hopefully we'll see you next time.

964
00:51:10,131 --> 00:51:10,871
That's it from us.

965
00:51:11,021 --> 00:51:11,741
God bless you.

966
00:51:12,381 --> 00:51:12,861
Bye for now.