Wisconsin, a paranormal paradise with lake

monsters, dogmen, haunted hotels, famous ghosts, and

deadly killers. It's a lot more than just America's

dairyman. It's time for a deep dive into the weird,

wonderful, and terrifying that's lying just below the surface of

reality. From American Ghost Walks and Badgerland

legends, this is the Wisconsin Legends podcast.

It's not only a place seated along a picturesque isthmus and

circumscribed by 4 lakes when viewed on a map from above, But also

a place shunted squarely in the mouth of madness once you're actually on the

ground. As time and space battle it out, Madison is a city

surrounded by reality on all sides yet still defined by a certain

surrealism. It is, in fact, less a physical place

as much as an idea or metaphysical construct of that same place.

It's an abstraction of America and the requisite American dream while at

the same time, curiously enough, serving as the state capital.

Bureaucracy, fantasy, and a conceptual anarchy all occupy the same

real estate that was an unlikely urban center to begin with,

19th century swampland in both the literal and figurative sense

bought for a song by a federal judge in 18/29. The capital

city was thus, in some sense, Always destined to be the

mad city and then some. That's

from Mad City, the True Story of the Campus Murderers That America

Forgot By Michael Hartfield. I am Mike Huberty

from American Ghost Walks, and I'm here with Jeff Finnop of

Badgerland Legends. Now after you read that, Mike, I'm happy I live in the

suburbs. Right. Then I and, you know, and I'm right on the east

side here. So I guess I I'm in the the center of the

conceptual anarchy. Well, today on Wisconsin Legends podcast,

we're gonna talk about a series of murders

That happened here in Dane County and Madison specifically

starting in the late 19 sixties that I didn't even know about

till a few years ago. Well, the thing about Madison is it's

known to be a safe city. Right. Kind of has a small town

vibe. It's a college place. But what not a lot of people

realize is that it's a very transient city.

Everybody I know here didn't grow up here, And it seems like

everybody that grew up in Madison, they usually go off to bigger

places. It's an interesting mix. And you have so many students that come in for

a few years at a time too. You got people coming in for school. You

have people that work in the tech sector like Epic. They'll be in and they'll

be out within 10 years. Doesn't seem like a lot of people plant roots

here, and that might be behind some of this.

It definitely might Be one of the reasons that people do not think about

the capital city killings probably as much as they would in another place,

even though they're easily the most famous series of

unsolved murders here in Madison. And it's one of

the you don't wanna say greatest hits of of true

crime, But it's made greatest shames because it is

this string of unsolved murders that happened in the small towns of

Madison. So when you compare it To other cities and the clearance rate

of the murders, it's really bad on the batting average. Yeah.

And with a name like capital city killings Or mad city murders? You

think it would get a lot more national attention? Well, we're doing our best to

help with that today. Alright. We're gonna get it on the map. Between

1968 and 1984, the University of Wisconsin in Madison

was a site of a series of brutal murders that left 8 young women

dead. The killer was never caught and the crimes remain unsolved.

Let's talk about the first victim, Christine Rothschild.

She enters university in 1967 after graduating with honors

in Chicago, Illinois. On a dreary May evening in

1968, A male student discovers her body

hidden behind some shrubbery outside of Sterling Hall, a

mathematics building located on North Charter Street.

Sterling Hall would later become famous in 1970 because it

was the site of the Sterling Hall bombing, the New Year's

gang that bombed it and killed somebody when they were trying to

protest Vietnam War. Mhmm. That's its own Wisconsin legends.

The Chicago Tribune, Chicago, Illinois, 29th May

1968. This is their story about Christine Rothschild. She had been stabbed

14 times And a piece of cloth was knotted around her

neck. Her leather gloves had been placed in her mouth, apparently, to

prevent her from crying out, officials said. A resident of the dormitory

reported seeing miss Rothschild at 6 AM in the dorm, and

2 students said that they thought they saw her near Sterling Hall at about 10

AM. The coroner said an autopsy showed that miss Rothschild had eaten

a large breakfast before she was killed. Police were making queries at

restaurants to determine whether she was seen in a restaurant before her death. It

is believed that she could not have eaten the breakfast in the dormitory.

Among the clues And this is in the newspaper. They spell

clues c l e w s. I've seen, historical

spellings of clues as c l e w s. So I don't know when that

changed, But that's interesting. Right. This is just 1968 in the

tribute. Among the clues in the hands of the police are a number

of knives and surgical blades found near the body.

These have been sent to FBI laboratories to determine whether one of them was the

fatal weapon. A meeting involving university, city, and county officials

is scheduled for 3:30 PM tomorrow to discuss a recent upsurge

in crime on the hilly, heavily wooded edges of the campus.

40 coeds have been attacked since last September, most in recent

weeks. Now this article, it goes into the Christine Rothschild murder,

and that's interesting to the people of Chicago because

Christine Rothschild is from a wealthy Chicago family. She is

a a beautiful girl. She was a model in, You know, Sears

catalogs stuff? She's not necessarily famous, but she's considered one of the upper

class of Chicago. Sure. In fact, Her parents thought of

the University of Wisconsin as the safe choice for her. Compared to what

we know about Chicago, at least in modern day, it seems like Madison is

Just eons more safe than Chicago. Or she wants to

go to college in New York City, like these big cities.

Mhmm. Her parents like, well, you'll be much safer In Madison,

this quiet college state capital Wisconsin town.

Yeah. And that's where she gets murdered. The tribunes interested in her death, Chicago Tribune.

They normally wouldn't just cover a murder in Madison. You know, it would have

to be something related to the people of Chicago and a wealthy Chicago family. Interestingly

enough, while Today, we connect the Capitol City killings with

other murders that happened in Madison. Back in 1968,

the Chicago Tribune is trying to connect it The 3 other murders

that happened in southeast Wisconsin and Chicago. And and they say, could this be

connected, this Rothschild murder? Because It seems

like the murderer had picked the daughter of a wealthy Chicago family.

Could it be connected to these others? And here are some of the others. And

I'd never heard about these Murders before because I only heard about

stuff that happened in Madison. This is a famous murder that happened in Chicago, and

they were wondering if it could be connected. Percy killing the 40 year file.

This is by Chuck Goldie, WLS News. So this is written on the

40th anniversary of this murder. Sharon Percy Rockefeller

still tries to comprehend the nightmare she was awakened by on the morning of September

8, 1966. Inside her family's sprawling mansion

perched above the beach on Lake Michigan, her twin sister, Valerie, lay

dying. It wasn't possible. I didn't know what people were talking about, said

Sharon. The last time I saw her was midnight, and I had returned her raincoat

to a closet which belonged to her in her bedroom, and she was already asleep.

I said good night, Val, and she murmured good night. I mean, she heard me

and then around 5 o'clock, the tragedy happened. Tragedy began when someone

used a glass cutter on the Percy backdoor and found his way

to Valerie's 2nd floor room. She was stabbed and beaten to death. 21

year old Valerie Gian Percy had graduated from Cornell that summer and was

2 days away From postgraduate studies at John Hopkins University.

In the days leading up to her murder, she was campaigning alongside her father. Her

father was running for senator. So this is a wealthy Chicago family as

well as her father's campaigning in 1966 to be the senator

from Illinois. Val was going downtown all summer, so she was riding the

l, That's the elevated train in downtown Chicago. She was walking to the

office and she without campaigning, Sharon said. Chuck Percy had already made his

fortune as the head of Bell and Howell Corporation, had run unsuccessfully for

Illinois governor and was beginning a career in national politics. The

murder of his daughter put the campaign on hold. But when several weeks

passed without an arrest or even a solid suspect, Percy resumed campaigning.

At stake was a highly coveted senate seat about to be snatched from the incumbent

Democrat Paul Douglas. Percy won the election and went on to serve

in the senate until his defeat in 1984. Was it

burglary? Heck no. This person went there to kill Valerie Percy,

and that's my belief 40 years ago and that's my belief today 40 years later,

said Joseph d Leonardi. Joe de

Leonardi knows murder. The former Chicago police superintendent was

an area 6 homicide cop in 1966 Called into the Percy case

when Kenilworth realized the murder was more than it could handle. She was found

Sunday at 5 AM. We got there Monday morning. It was 24 hours old.

We get to the crime scene. There was none. No crime scene. The room where

she was murdered was completely renovated. You cannot conduct a homicide

investigation like this, Said Dee Leonardi. Why

was it renovated? Right. Why had they cleaned up the

crime scene before the police even got there? Yeah. Issues

with evidence and crime scenes, that's going to come up

again It's gonna be a theme here. In this podcast. Now

is the next murder that the tribune is saying it might be linked to Christine

Rothschild's murder. 4th November 1966 is the

capital times of Madison. 3rd Milwaukee area girl is

found brutally slain. The body of an attractive 20 year old

woman stabbed a 106 times was found

Thursday at Suburban Menomonee Falls in the plant she was employed as

receptionist. Waukesha County authorities said the body of Diane Olkowitz

was discovered around 5:30 PM in the rear of a 1 story building housing the

Kenworth Manufacturing Company and the Wilson Welding Company.

Milwaukee police were called into the case because the slang was similar to those of

2 Milwaukee girls stabbed to death in the last 2 months.

Still unsolved at the deaths of Cheryl Thompson, nineteen, killed in

October 17th, and Julia Beckwith, 10, killed in the September

4th. These crimes were later solved. Killer Michael Lee Harrington

admitted to them. But coroner James Welch, who said miss Olkowitz had been

stabbed a 106 times, So there were 18 stab wounds in her head.

Officials said the weapon was an extremely sharp stiletto type knife. They

said it did not appear she had been molested sexually by the slayer Who apparently

struck without warning. So that's case number 2 in 1966.

Case number 3, Capital Times, Madison, Wisconsin, February

15, 1967. Crime Lab seeks clues to the slaying of

a Kenosha teen. The state crime laboratory moved in today to help find new clues

in the slaying of Mary Ellen Kaltenberg, seventeen, The 5th

girl in Southeastern Wisconsin to be stabbed in the last 6 months. The

Tremper High School junior, whose frozen body was found in a junked hearse

Monday in an auto scrap yard, Had been stabbed 12 times in the neck,

chest, forehead, and back with a blade type weapon, Kenosha County coroner

Edward Wauvero said Tuesday night. He said 2 chest wounds pierce

her heart. He said her autopsy showed death was due to internal bleeding by

stabbing, and the autopsy had been delayed because of the body's frozen condition.

The crime lab would take samples and make further tests in the body today. Her

brother said, he cried like a baby when they told me sis was dead. A

report that the girl would likely have a closed casket brought new tears, he said.

I cried and I cried when they told me that they might not show her,

he said. I can't get a last look, And I liked her. She's still in

the city of Kenosha cold case website. The city of Kenosha has her own cold

cases. Maryann Kellenberg left home at approximately 8:30 PM on

February 9th 19 7 to go to the drugstore. On February 13th, her body

was discovered in a junk vehicle. She was 17 years old and died as a

result of multiple stab wounds. So they still have a cold case website that's

got her murder in there. Okay. This is 1967

February. So we already have those five Women in southeastern

Wisconsin who've been stabbed and murdered. So they're all murdered

in the same manner? All yeah. All stabbed to death And

not everyone was moved from the site and or hidden, but

they all stabbed head, chest. Yeah.

They say a stabbing, especially a 106 stab wounds,

would be a crime of passion. That's a serious like, that's not just

going there, you wanna hurt somebody. That's you're making sure they're dead, and then

you're going crazy. And then some. Yeah. The frenzy.

April 24, 1967. This is from the Winona Daily News, Winona,

Minnesota. Bodies of 2 Milwaukee women found in field. The

bodies of 2 women who'd been missing since April 15th were found tied and

riddled with stab wounds Sunday in a field in suburban New Berlin.

Waukesha County district attorney Roger Murphy said the bodies of miss

Cheryl Ann Packard, 22, of rural Milwaukee, and miss Sharon Malone,

25, of rural Heartland, had been in the field a few days. He said the

women were probably slain elsewhere and their bodies were dumped in the field later. We

got a lot of things going, Murphy said when asked if police had any leads,

But nothing we can reveal. No weapon has been found, and police had no one

in custody. Murphy and New Berlin police sergeant Jack Bukowski said the

women reached stabbed about 5 times in the chest. Miss Packard was also

stabbed once in the abdomen and miss Malone 3 times in the neck, they said.

The women were last seen alive and together at a cocktail lounge in suburban Brookfield,

About 6 miles northeast of the place, their bodies were found. Police said one of

the women's undergarments were missing. Both were wearing skirts and blouses. The bodies were

found by policemen behind a row of dead trees. They had their hands tied behind

their backs with binder twine. Both apparently had been gagged, although miss

Malone's had worked loose and was found near her body. A statewide alert had been

issued for the women last week after relatives had reported them missing. Miss

Malone's stalled car was found several blocks east of the cocktail lounge where they were

last seen. These murders are still unsolved as well. By the

time we get to May of 1968, where

Christine Rothschild body is found outside of Hall here at the

campus, University of Wisconsin. Young women in

Southeast Wisconsin, Northern Illinois

are being Brutally stabbed and left.

I feel like if this happened today and we had the series

of 5 women left for dead in a field, 1

a month. I mean Outrage. Yeah. What are the police doing?

Yeah. You know, when I watch a horror movie like Halloween or Scream or

something, and You're watching a movie and you think like, oh, man.

5 or 6 people got killed in this film. Like, that no way. They'd

catch the killer before that would happen in real life. There's no way they could

just cut their way through a town like that. Serial killers can't work like

that. Certainly did in Wisconsin here in the late 19

sixties. Yeah. I kinda wanted to bring up those cases because when

you talk about the capital city killings, they just talk about the bodies that were

piling up in Dane County over a course of, you know, 14 years,

16 years. However, these bodies were piling up all over the

area. Long before. Yeah. And they were already trying to

make connections in the late 19 sixties Beyond this.

I just thought that was interesting and also kind of scary,

the amount of, like, really violent murder.

Not the kind of murder where somebody got themselves

into trouble by going to the wrong place, dealing with the wrong

people, Owning the wrong people money. Drug deal going bad or some kind of gang

related. These were targeted. It was all

younger women. You said the youngest was 10. Yes. Was,

like, college student. Right. 2 women in their mid twenties. So it

seemed very targeted to a specific group and all done

by stabbing. So it seems like there might be a natural connection.

Right. Even if there's not a connection to these murders, the fact that people

were Getting away that these are all unsolved murders that happen within the space

of a couple of years, and it's the bodies just they just start piling

up. The senator's daughter is murdered and the in

her own home, and the crime is never solved. Yeah. With all

the political sway And all the pressure to find this senator

or senate candidate at the time's daughter and still couldn't get

it done. Still not enough protection to protect these other women who

Maybe aren't wealthy, but they certainly were brutalized. So over the years,

more young women were abducted and murdered. Their bodies found in various locations, and the

exact cause of death Was often difficult to determine because they're found later.

And this is the next one people connect in the capital city

killings. Deborah Bennett, twenty. Her body has been

set on fire and left in a ditch a few miles from Cross Plains, which

is a, you know, a small town Yeah. Right outside of that. Ten

miles out of Madison. Wisconsin State Journal, July 27,

1976. Murder victim was last seen alive on July 10th.

Deborah j Bennett, the 20 year old woman whose badly burned body was found

last Wednesday in a country ditch near Cross Plains, was last live on

Saturday, July 10th at 7:15 PM, walking barefoot on the west side

of the 1400 block of Lost Gordon Avenue, the Dane County Sheriff's

Department said today. They said she was wearing a blue denim jacket and carrying a

brown purse with a shoulder strap. Authorities say they still have no idea who may

have killed the woman who wasn't positively identified until last Friday

Through teeth and a fractured collarbone, she suffered when she was 8 years old.

Bennett had been arrested last month by Madison Police as a suspect In

a Williamson Street apartment burglary, but she was not convicted.

A 30 member intra county major crime investigating squad

is handling the case. No one's ever arrested in Deborah

Bennett's murder. Julianne Hall, eighteen. After being bludgeoned to

death in 1978, Her body was found buried near Waunakee.

This is a Wisconsin State Journal. 24th June 1978. Body is

identified as library worker. City and county investigators using

dental records late Thursday identified the woman whose nude body was found the day

before in a shallow grave along Woodland Road Just off of Highway

12 west of Waunakee, the woman, Julianne Hall of Woodview

Court, was a native of Fenimore and had worked since May 1st the library

assistant in the archive section of the Wisconsin Historical Society. Dane County

coroner Clyde Chamberlain Friday morning said investigators will continue the

investigation And, quote, assume that a crime had been committed,

unquote. He said the death was caused by blows to the head with a blunt

instrument, and the nude body also had numerous scratches and bruises. Tests are being

conducted today to determine whether she had been molested. She's

interesting because she's the daughter of Don and Betty Hall who in

March 1975 Won $300,000 in the

Illinois state lottery. The couple was divorced between 6 8 months ago

according to a Grant County court spokesman. Don Hall is in Fennimore,

and Betty Hall now lives at a trailer court on Highway 12 outside

Baraboo. So the curse of the lottery strikes

again. They get rich, And then, unfortunately,

it destroys their family. Ensues. Police late Wednesday asked

the media to publish and broadcast a description of the body. Chamberlain said about 40

telephone tips about the missing woman were received. Major crime unit investigators are still

seeking information about miss Hall who reportedly went drinking with some friends

on Friday night. So that one also continues to

go unsolved until the next Julie is killed less than

a a year later. Julie Speerschneider, twenty. She

disappeared 1979 after looking to hitch a ride from an east side club.

Where is Julie Speerschneider? Manitowoc Herald Times, 5th

June 1979. They fear the worst, that she was

kidnapped, maybe raped, and then murdered. But the friends of Julie

Speerschneider, a 20 year old Madison woman missing for 10 weeks, have

united in an extraordinary effort, which they vow to continue until they find

her dead or alive. We're searching for something we hope we don't find. That's

the hardest part, said Jack Smith 31. The former owner of the

downtown gourmet restaurant where Julie and a number of her friends work,

Smith speaks for the group of about 10 people working with Julie's parents and the

police In an effort to find out what happened to her. When somebody close to

you dies, you can deal with your grief, Smith said. Not knowing, we're denied even

that, Said Bridget Fairley, 21. She and Renee Guzman, 20, and

Patty Lou, 20, were perhaps Julie's closest friends over the past few

years. The 4 of them graduated from Memorial High School here in January,

a semester ahead of schedule. They traveled together, worked together as waitresses,

and often socialized together. In fact, it was Patty who last heard from

Julie at about 8:30 PM on Tuesday, March 27th. It was a dark

foggy night, dank and cold. Julie called Patty's apartment,

said she was at a downtown par, and asked if she could come over to

watch television that evening, but she never showed up. The general theory

agreed upon by Julie's friends, parents, and the police is that something happened to her

as she hitchhiked the 8 blocks to Patti's apartment. She was a free

spirit, said Renee. She wouldn't have teased or come onto a guy who picked her

up hitchhiking, but she could easily have said something that would've made him angry.

The group has been in contact with a number of psychics. Their versions of what

may have happened are widely varied, but the friends have found enough consistency to

believe She is now buried in a shallow grave in a rural

area northeast of Madison. Julie Speerschneider's body,

then a skeleton, was found in 1981 in the town of

Dunn near the Yahara River. Just about a year after that,

Susan LeMahieu, 24. Her body is found in the UW Arboretum.

She had been missing for 4 months. Four dead and police waiting for a

break. This is now the newspapers are connecting the

murders. Wisconsin State Journal, 2nd May 1981, the

mildly retarded, physically handicapped woman was described as a, quote,

street person, unquote, who had also hung out in the King and Main Street areas

in a long state in Williamson streets. She had been reported missing from her home

at Allen Hall, December 15, 1979. We had a couple of

suspects, remembers UW police and security lieutenant Gary Moore, but both were

cleared. We came up with absolutely nothing. However, Go back to the

Capital Times in September 6, 1979. This is 3 months

before her disappearance. Susan LaMayhew makes a newspaper.

Man charged in threat. Percy Lee Love, 40, who

was charged last April with battering a Madison woman, Was charged in criminal court

today with threatening to kill her if she testified against him. According to the

complaint filed against Love today, he stopped Susan LeMahieu in a tavern

parking lot August 24th and told her he would kill her or have someone

else do it if she persisted in testifying in the battery case. The

charge of threatening to injure a witness carries a maximum penalty of 5 years in

prison and a $10,000 fine. The earlier battery charge stems

from an incident last April 12th In which he allegedly beat up

LeMay. So here's somebody who is

a, well, street person, As I said, she's living in a

place called Allen Hall, which is a place for people with mental

challenges. And, she disappears in December

1979, which doesn't come back. Her body is, you know, later

found in May. But Percy Love,

3 months before she disappeared, goes to court for threatening to kill her.

He said, I will kill you or have somebody else do it. 3 months later,

she winds up dead. Percy Love is not prosecuted for the

murder. No one is well So she never made the witness stand. And

She well, she's not the kind of person that when people die, other

people care about too much. Unfortunately. But you can see

that They're starting to make that connection in 1981.

Yeah. They're seeing the body stack up.

4 dead and police waiting for a break. So the 4 women, The Julies

and Deborah Ann Hall are, you know, are murdered

1 1 every year, and nobody can do anything about it.

This continues. Shirley Stewart. This is from Wisconsin State

Journal, July 2, 2012. So this is a look back. Unsolved

murders haunt campus. Shirley Stewart, 17, disappeared in

January 1980 after leaving the Dean Clinic and was found in July 1981

in a forest north of Madison. Detectives suspected that the same predator

killed the 5 women. Shirley Stewart is the next person in the

capital city killing. Coming on to almost a

year later, Donna Mraz, nineteen. She stabbed to death near Camp

Randall Stadium in 1982 while on her way home from her waitress job at a

State Street restaurant. Here's the Wisconsin State Journal article.

Few leads in murder, July 3, 1982. Investigators have

asked a 22 year old University of Wisconsin Madison student from

Milwaukee to undergo hypnosis in hopes that he may remember

more about Fatal stabbing early Friday of a woman on a concrete

walkway north of Camp Randall. Donna Mraz, 23, of Van

Nuys Avenue, Who stabbed about midnight died of multiple stab

wounds 2 hours later at the university hospital. Dane County deputy coroner Don

Scullin said miss Mraz received the stab wound to the heart. He said

other results of an autopsy conducted Friday were not available. Now according to his

roommates, the UW student walked to his apartment window and saw miss

Mraz fall. You ran outside and saw that she'd been stabbed. A deep wound in

her left arm stretched from shoulder to elbow and penetrated nearly to the

bone, And the student also saw dampness caused by blood in her chest. The

student ran back inside and called for an ambulance. He and another man returned to

the woman and put a blanket around her. He heard her gagging and tried to

resuscitate her. Moore said Friday afternoon that investigators

had absolutely nothing about a suspect. We had somebody that saw a

shadow around the stadium, but absolutely no description, he said. The use of

hypnosis in criminal cases is controversial throughout the country And

is the major issue in a first degree murder appeal pending before the Wisconsin

Supreme Court. In that case, Ralph Armstrong is seeking reversal of

his conviction Because a key witness was hypnotized before identifying

with a police lineup. Critics contend hypnosis can irrevocably

taint the memory of a witness Who may be unable to distinguish later between

actual memory and the recollections created during hypnosis.

Donna Mraz's murder Killed right in front of Camp Randall

Stadium. Somebody hears it, comes out, sees a

shadow, doesn't see anything. Madison police have nothing.

So that we're gonna hip we're gonna hypnotize. It just seems

like almost out of, like, a seventies sitcom. Right. Here's what'll

help you. We're gonna hypnotize you so you can see the killer. If we

think that's in effect and I hate to say this Because I I have

a lot of respect for what the difficult job the police officers have.

But it's made even more difficult because Things are

out of control in this month in 1982. This is the same newspaper as this

hypnosis article about Donna Mraz. Two more attacks mark

outbreak of assaults. They have a list of these going through June.

June 26th, a 28 year old Sun Prairie woman was raped in her car in

a parking lot of Francis and Lake streets by a man wearing a dark ski

mask pulled down over his nose. The assailant held a knife to her throat during

the assault. June 25th, a 28 year old east side woman escaped an

assailant who grabbed her from the bushes in James Madison Park by kicking in the

groin. June 24th, a 19 year old woman was cut on the leg, and her

jaw was chipped by a man who attacked and slashed her at Demetrio Field near

Packers Avenue. June 21st, A 20 year old teacher was sexually

assaulted as she walked along railroad tracks near the 29100 block of Saint Paul

Avenue on the east side. June 17th, A 79 year old woman

was sexually assaulted and robbed by a man who crawled into her east side home

through a small window. June 11th, a 22 year old woman was sexually assaulted in

a Williamson Street apartment by a man who Who threatened to kill her because of

her connection with a motorcycle club. June 8th, a 27 year old woman was grabbed

by a man and raped in the city's near east side. June 6th, An 18

year old gasoline station clerk was grabbed and sexually assaulted as she was closing the

station. This is June of 1982. Yeah.

This is crime run amok. Chaos. It's just I mean, it's really it's

terrifying what was going on in June 1982.

Donna Mraz is murdered. Everybody else was attacked, assaulted,

stabbed. People were fighting off attackers, And then

Donna Mraz just was the unlucky one. And none of these

are solved.

Couple years later, we come to the the last of the people. Think of the

capital city killings. Janet Rasch, twenty. Her body was

found partially burnt in 1985 near a highway 100 miles north of

Madison after being reported missing for over a month. This is from the

Stevens Point Journal, 12th January 1985. An unhealed

wound. The Portage County sheriff's department has had little to say about the death

Except that it's being treated as a murder and that investigation continues. The reason for

that is simple. Investigators don't have any solid evidence. They've expended hundreds

of frustrating hours in the case, But their hopes now hinge on a detailed autopsy

report from the state crime laboratory. Even that report may fall short, and we

are faced with the unsettling prospect of living with the festering wound of Janet

Rache's unsolved death. The theory is that this young woman died by strangulation,

but it remains a theory because her body was so terribly decomposed by the time

it was found. Her body was partially clad when found, and authorities believe that she

was sexually assaulted. But, again, the lack of solid clues makes that only

speculation. Highway 54 will take you a lot of places, but it isn't a

major state commuter route load with transient travelers, so there's a good chance

that Janet Rache's killer or killers is still among us.

However, October 2022, Portage County sheriff's

department finally closes the case. Not with the murder though,

But they've decided it was accidental. The story was she

was camping while she was hitchhiking, and in the night, her sleeping bag

caught fire. She ran to the highway for help, but she died

from her wounds before she could find any assistance. So she was partially

clothed because The fire had burned some of the clothes

off her body. Mhmm. She died away from the

campsite, so that's why they took so long to find her.

And by the time they found her decomposed remains, they couldn't figure out

what happened to her. But she was hitchhiking somewhere,

Probably couldn't catch a ride, decided to camp.

Sleeping bag caught fire. Had a bad luck, you know, set a fire, got too

close to fire, or Or a spark came flying off it in the night. She's

sleeping. She wakes up, and her body's on fire. Sure. So that case is

eventually cross that one off the list. That's where I'm from, Right around

there. So I was wondering, like, if there was connection, but So you're clearly that

was You're finally not a suspect anymore, Jack. That's right. I was baby then,

so it'd been tough for me. That's a good alibi. But that story to me

though is just such a it's good that's closure for the family because, I mean,

they're writing about Janet Rache's story in the Stevens Point Journal for

Couple of decades, and it's really a a tragedy. And this is Portage County is

not a place where a lot of murders happen. No. So it has a violent,

but they think sexual assault and murder, which Is it weird to think because

this is happening in the early eighties? This kind of crime is

it's happening all the time. In defense of the fine people of

Stevens Point, growing up in Wisconsin Rapids, Madison is the

big city to my parents to this day. They think, oh, Madison's

such a big city. Growing up in a a town of

20,000 Sure. It might be, but compared to the likes of

nearby Milwaukee or Chicago, it Still has kind of that small

town feel to it. I'm glad they were able to put some closure to it.

And it Yeah. This she had a scary end, Obviously,

on fire, but it wasn't somebody wasn't brutalizing

her. She didn't have to deal with human cruelty at the end of her life,

and that seems like At least a a small blessing if

you can see If there is 1. Blessing in that terrible story. Those are the

classic kinda capital city killings.

Talk about a couple of killings that happened afterwards 20 years afterwards in

2000 That kinda changed a lot of things in Madison.

The first one was Britney Zimmerman in April of 2008.

Mhmm. And I remember this one Because she was

stabbed to death in her West Doty Street apartment, April 2, 2008. Yeah.

That's right downtown. Yeah. Right by the bus station. She

had called 911 and was on the phone with the

operator while the guy was attacking, while he's breaking in.

Mhmm. Became disconnected, and the operator didn't

call back. So it changed how 911 works

In Madison. So the call was dropped. No one ever called her

back. It's a sad stabbing death unsolved for a long

time. Billboards all over Madison for a decade saying if you have

any information, you know, her family on the news. They got rid of the bus

station downtown Because they thought that the killer was a transient.

They thought got a bus station. Come and go. I'd taken that bus to La

Crosse. I'd taken that bus to Minneapolis. I'd go to that bus a 1000000 times,

and now we don't have a bus station in Madison. 15 years later, there is

no bus station in Madison. And they thought he got off and then got back

on. And how are you ever gonna find that Yeah. Eventually,

someone a guy was already in jail. David Rall plead guilty

after 14 years At the end of 2022. And what was he in for?

Do we know? He was already in for a violent crime. Yeah. But then

they were able to link him The being in Madison, and he admitted to,

like, somebody else, and then they got him for it. And now I don't know

if he's sentenced yet. This just happened At the end of

2022 that he plead guilty. Okay. When we're recording March

year 2023, I do not believe he has been sentenced to the rest of his

life. I assume he's not going anywhere. He's not gonna be able to kill anybody

else. Yeah. But that was another thing. So Janet Rash, Assault in

2022. Britney Zimmerman, assault in 2022. Kelly Nolan,

UW Whitewater student living in downtown Madison who disappeared after a night out

drinking And her murdered body left in Oregon, Wisconsin. It's Capital

Times May 11, 2008. Questions abound, but cops say

little. The first question when Kelly Nolan didn't come home June 23rd was

simple. What happened to her? The answer 2 weeks later was heartbreaking

Noland's body was found July 9th in a wooded area in the town of Dunn,

10 miles south of downtown Madison. 10 months later, police still don't know

who put her there While a cause of death and motive for the crime have

never been released by authorities. There was a second body found in Dunn.

Yeah. That seems to be a popular dump spot. Apparently.

People in the town of Dunne, may I recommend some closed circuit TV cameras or

something so we can find these guys. Since the death of Nolan, a 22 year

old UW Whitewater student who disappeared at departing at State Street, Madison

residents have seen 2 more tragic killings of young people in which the questions

far outnumber the answers. Police have not identified any suspects or motive in these

crimes. The January 28th fatal daytime stabbing of 31 year old Joel Marino

in his home and the killing of Britney Zimmerman, who we just talked about, the

21 year old UW Madison student April 2nd, Raising possible concerns

about whether police are holding back too much information about their cases and about the

progress in solving them. When killers run the loose, Law enforcement has

responsibility to maximize the information that it gives out to the public, said Jack

Levin, a professor of criminology at Northeastern University in Boston and

author of Books on Homicide, who was consulted for police, prosecutors, and

defense attorneys in murder trials. Otherwise, the public can't take precautions, Levin

added. And if police investigators would simply take a look at cases of murder that

have been solved, Thanks to the involvement of members of the public, they might think

twice before they conceal evidence. Madison police chief Noble Ray

said detectives are holding back only what they must to make sure the cases can

be solved with some Key details known only to investigators to help them weed

out false confessors and trip up the guilty. He also said investigators were

working very hard on the cases, Which are more difficult to solve because they're

all believed to be random attacks by strangers with no ties to the victims. And

he stressed that more was going on behind the scenes Then people

realize, but Kelly Nolan's still unsolved. Yeah. No one knows

who killed her. Their investigation, How did the police

search? What did they do? They did think these crimes were connected. They were looking.

January 4, 1982, detectives have wish list

too. So this is kind of a New Year's story in the Wisconsin State Journal

in 1982 before Donna Mraz died. Like everyone else,

Madison area detectives have their own holiday wish list. On the list of

sticky cases they would like to see resolved during the new year are crimes ranging

from homicides to armed robberies to thefts. And at the top of the list are

the unsolved murders of 7 women. That's the capital

city killings you're talking about in January 4, 1982. So 41 years ago, it

makes the New Year's newspaper. If they think it's a serial killer

When you think about a serial killer, Jeff, like and we've

talked about lots of serial killers on this show. Seems to be a popular. That

unfortunately, Wisconsin, we have a bunch. But when you think about a serial killer, what

comes to mind? If we asked AI art to do a picture of

a serial killer, what do you think it would show A

late twenties, early thirties man, usually white,

a sullen look. Like a dommer type. Yeah. Like a dommer

type. A loner isolated. Somebody who's

uncomfortable around other people. Somebody when they talked about Ed Gein, they're like, well,

Ed was always a little bit off. Yeah. That's what we think. And and Ed

is actually not in the pantheon of serial killers. He's more of a grave

robber who, a couple older ladies pissed them off, so they met their

end, mister Gein. Right. But we picture those weird Yeah.

The reclusive From the movies. Outcasts, the leatherface,

or or even in real life, The hillside strangler

or the Boston strangler or Richard Ramirez

kind of psycho. Right. Yeah. Right. Richard Mears got, he's got the

pentagram on his hand. Yeah. The son of Sam is a

loner, kind of not a lot of friends. Well, the FBI on their

website, They have a myths about serial killers section.

Let's debunk all these myths about serial killers myths. Yeah. With with the FBI.

Myth, serial killers are all dysfunctional loners. No, Mike. That's

just you. The the majority of serial killers are not reclusive, social

misfits who live alone. They are not monsters and may not appear strange. Many

serial killers hide in plain sight within their communities. Serial murderers often

have families and homes, are gainfully employed, and appear to be normal members of the

community. That's Like the torso killer in New York City who was

killing people. He had a job and friends. Because many

serial murderers can blend in so effortlessly, They are oftentimes overlooked

by law enforcement and the public. Myth. Serial killers are all

white males. Contrary to popular belief, Serial killers span

all racial groups. They are white, African American, Hispanic, and Asian

serial killer. The racial diversification of serial killers Generally

mirrors that of the overall US population. Diversity is our strength. I

was gonna say that. Even serial killers. That's where we have equity is in serial

killers. Well, remember those guys in Washington DC, the snipers?

Yeah. And they were Black guys. It was an older guy

and he kind of had Svengali ed This younger guy come along

with him and sniping people. Mhmm.

Terrifying, random, murderous attacks.

Long range, Unsuspecting. You could be anywhere and just

killed out of nowhere. So that's not the white male

loner kinda deal. Myth. Serial killers are only motivated

by sex. We think there's gonna be assault involved

or they get their jollies. Guys like Dahmer did, but not all of

them. All serial murders are not sexually based. There are many

other motivations for serial murders including anger, thrill, financial

gain, And attention seeking. Financial gain is something that people don't

talk about enough. Yeah. I guess with the Murdoch murders

Yeah. Where he killed his nanny or his kid's nanny. Right. To

cash in on her? To get him out of a tough spot? Well, the life

insurance policy that Life insurance policy. Yeah. H h homes, we hire people,

take out insurance policies on them, Then murder them and collect the insurance.

Serial killing for financial gain.

Myth. All serial murderers travel and operate interstate.

Most serial killers have very defined geographic areas of operation.

They conduct their killings within comfort zones that are often defined by an anchor

point. Residents, employment, residents of a relative, Jeffrey

Dahmer's grandmother's house. Mhmm. Serial murderers will, at

times, Spiral their activities outside of their comfort zone when their confidence has grown

through experience to avoid detection. Very few serial murderers

travel interstate to kill. Myth.

Serial killers cannot stop killing. It has been widely believed that

once serial killers start killing, they cannot stop. There are, however,

some serial killers who stop murdering altogether before being caught. In

those instances, there are events or circumstances in offenders' lives that inhibit

them from pursuing more victims. These can include increased participation

in family activities, sexual substitution, or other diversions.

Think about the Golden State Killer. Mhmm. He has all those horrible

crimes and then stops. When he

realizes that DNA evidence can be a thing Yeah. He

stops. And they find him 25 years later.

Oh, discarded DNA of all things. Right. But felt like his compulsion

made him do it. And I think that trope might come from where Dahmer,

one of the most famous serial killers, also Wisconsin, spiraled out

of control towards the end of his killing spree Because he could

not he could not stop the compulsion to kill. Right. He went

from every once in a while to then those last couple of months,

He's just going after people constantly. Yeah. Myth. All serial

killers are insane or are evil geniuses. Another

myth that exists is that serial killers have either a debilitating mental condition,

psychotic, like, I mean, Richard Ramirez. Mhmm. Or they're extremely clever and

intelligent, like the zodiac. Yeah. As a group,

serial killers suffer from a variety of personality disorders, including psychopathy,

antisocial personality disorder, and others. Most, however, are not

adjudicated as insane under the law. So they're not psychotic.

They're not having a break from reality. The

media has created a number of fictional serial killer geniuses,

Anthony Hopkins Yeah. That's Hannibal Lecter, Who outsmart law

enforcement at every turn. Like other populations, however, serial killers

range in intelligence from borderline to above average level.

Myth. Serial killers want to get caught. Offenders committing a

crime for the 1st time are inexperienced. They gain experience and confidence with each

new offense, eventually Seeding with few mistakes are problem. While most serial

killers plan their offenses more thoroughly than other criminals, the learning curve is still

very steep. They must select, target, approach, control, and dispose

of the victims. The logistics involved in committing a murder and disposing the

body can become very complex, especially when there are multiple sites involved.

As serial killers continue to offend without being captured, they can become

empowered, feeling they will never be identified. As the series continues,

the killers may begin to take shortcuts when committing their crimes. And this often causes

them to take more chances, leading to identification by law enforcement. It

is not that serial killers want to get caught. They feel like they can't

get caught. Yeah. Perfect example, at least in a

fictional sense, is Dexter. He continued his spree

and used his methods of disposal, but ended up getting kinda

sloppy towards the end. Right. Desperate, sloppy,

cocky, but this idea that that they're tortured, this goes back

to if they are insane. You're not gonna find that in the

diagnostic and statistical manual of Yeah. American Psychological

Association. Insane the legal term, Whether you

are of sound enough mind to have committed the crime or

not. Like, whether you know the difference between right and wrong. You You know, it's

why Ed Gein went to a mental hospital and didn't

go into prison. Mhmm. Because they said he didn't know they didn't seem

right and wrong, While Dahmer went to prison because he knew what he was

doing. He didn't wanna He knew what he was doing was wrong, and he

had to pay for Right. He was drinking to numb his feelings of

knowing what he was doing was wrong.

But when you talk about, was it a serial killer? Did Madison

Police think they were dealing with that? Well,

yes. By the mid eighties, after Donna

Mraz's murder, they thought that these women

were victims of one of the most infamous Serial killers of 19

eighties. Henry Lee Lucas. And they

Netflix made a great documentary about him called The Confession Killer,

because he confessed to hundreds of murders. He's the inspiration

behind the movie Henry, Portrait of a Serial Killer. Michael Rooker

is Terrify when I think about that movie, which

I I saw in my teens I haven't seen it. It's based on

Henry and his Partner Otis Toole going around, and it it's

just probably the closest thing to Henry Ford to Basilica that's come out lately is

the Dahmer mini Yeah. They kinda go into those uncomfortable

performances and create those moods. And Henry

Portrait of a Serial Killer really does that well. And Michael

Rooker is so disturbing in that film, like, when I see him with pictures of

fans and he's everything, oh, Michael Rooker is a great guy. I was like, no,

he's not. He is evil. And I know he's great, good human being,

all those kind of things, but that performance is scarring. But Henry Lee Lucas,

once he starts confessing to

different kinds of murders around the country. He starts telling this

to these Texas policemen. The policemen are like, okay. Let's

go and see if we can solve these other murders that happened around the country.

And then every police department, the unsolved cases that may have

been in the area where Henry Lee Lucas could have been in it sometime

or him and Otis as they were traveling. They thought, well, let's see if he

can know some things about the crime, and let's see if we

can pin him on Henry Lucas and he'll admit to it. Wisconsin State

Journal, January 27, 1984, killer to be queried in Texas on state deaths.

Julie, Sue, Deborah, Barbara, Julie, Donna, and

Christine. Each was found murdered, most abducted.

All of their cases remain unsolved. Local detectives may get

a crack solving some of these tough Dane cases on March 13th when they

are scheduled to question mass killer, Henry Lee Lucas, in Texas.

County and city detectives are in the long line of investigators from across the

nation who wanna question Lucas in hopes of finding solutions to their baffling

murder cases. Authorities believe Lucas, 47, and Elwood

Toole, 36, who faces arson murder charges in Jacksonville,

Florida, may have committed as many as 200 murders.

Lucas has told police he is responsible for killing as many as 165

women In treks across the country, sometimes with Toole. Lucas and

Toole have been placed in the Dane County area in 1971,

1976, and August of 1982. They've also been linked to the

slang of Menomonee Falls woman, Joyce Gardner, 54, in May

of 1981. Dane County sheriff Jerome Lack Said

arrangements have been made with Texas Rangers to question Lucas on March 13th about some

of the Madison area cases. It definitely appears he was in the vicinity of

at least 1, if not more of the Homicide cases we're working on with female

victims, Lack said. It would be irresponsible not to interview him and try to

refresh his memory. Let's fast forward 5 months. Capital Times,

June 16, 1984. Evidence strong, Lucas killed 4 women

here by Marv Balousek. He's written a number of

these. Yeah. We have a book right here on the counter. 101 Wisconsin

Unsolved Mysteries by Marv Balousek. So Yep. So he's been on the beat for

murder in Wisconsin in A long time. Detectives hope to

interview Addis Elwood Toole, a sidekick of mass killer Henry Lee

Lucas, to try to link the pair to unsolved Dane County murders of as many

as 5 women. Sheriff Jerome Lackey said Friday, investigators are

convinced that Lucas abducted and murdered Julianne Hall, eighteen, whose

body was found June 21, 1978 In a remote wooded area along

Woodland Road near Highway 12 west of Waunakee, she'd been missing 5

days. The basis for this determination is that mister Lucas provided the

investigators With significant details involving the crime scene and victim that only

the perpetrator, in our judgment, could have known, he said. Lucas, who has admitted

more than three 150 murders nationwide was

interviewed for 9 hours earlier this week at Georgetown, Texas where he's imprisoned

by Dane County detective David Kokam's, Madison police detective Mary

Ottoson and university police detective Herb Hansen. The videotaped interviews were

analyzed Thursday by investigators. Like you said, there's strong evidence to indicate that

Lucas is involved with the deaths of Susan LeMahieu, Julie Speerschneider,

and Deborah Bennett, and, Quote, some evidence unquote, that he also killed

Shirley Stewart. Lucas, along with his lover and companion Otis Toole,

36, have told of roaming the country killing along the way. Toole, who is now

serving time in Florida for murder, is believed to be traveling with Lucas at the

time of the Hall murder. Authorities say they will now begin making arrangements to travel

to Florida to interview Toole. It is not known for certain what brought Lucas and

Toole to Wisconsin, but according to sheriff's lieutenant George Miller, Lucas is believed

to have traveled through Madison while on his way to visit relatives another state.

This is 1984 where he's admitting to all of these

murders. And And he's probably having a fun time with it. He was getting cigarettes.

He's getting Kentucky Fried Chicken. He's getting Coca Cola. Getting

attention. He's getting constant attention for months. You see that in the

documentary, the confession killer. Just state after

state. People come in and they try to solve these murders

using Henry Lee Lucas, and he is their Huckleberry.

Mhmm. 300 he's 47 years old. 350 murders. That's

I mean That's a pretty high body count. Remember when Wilt Chamberlain said he had

sex in his autobiography? He's like he had sex 20,000 women. Yeah. Somebody

did the math, and it was like, he would had that, like, 4 times a

day or whatever, like, every league game. And it was just like some kind of

number that was astronomical. Henry Lee Lucas would have to kill something like once a

week. In the end So it's less than credible. Yes. He eventually

recants most of his confession, which is why

The Henry Lee Lucas connection to the capital city killings starts drying up

in the newspapers by the ladies. It's not mentioned anymore. By the time we get

to 1990, Wisconsin State Journal once again is doing their New Year's

crime roundup. A brief glimmer of hope for clearing these cases

came in 1984 when mass killer, Henry Lee Lucas, confessed Killing Hall

and Speerschneider. But Lucas later recanted his confessions

to more than 600 murders.

Wow. Claiming he was trying to avoid the death

penalty.

Alright. So it's not Henry Lucas. What's another kind

of of killer? They're the kind of killers that the quote from the

beginning of the show was by this guy named Michael

Artfield, who wrote this Mad City book. And his

theory is that certain people come to cities at

certain times because they think of it as a hunting ground. It's like

Devil in the White City. Right. They take advantage of the

opportunity that a city of chaos can provide.

Place specific killers. Again from the Mad City

book. Before the clinical and forensic literature on

psychopaths, which was later to come and ultimately verify what the annals of crime

had already shown, A more anecdotal history confirmed that

perceptively safe cities caught up in great migrations and

celebrations tend to simultaneously invite Ian and ignore

homicidal threats at a rate rarely seen in more perceptively

perilous lookouts. Consider by way of comparison,

the World's Fair of 18/93 in Christine Rothschild's hometown

of Chicago. It was ostensibly a celebration of the 400th

anniversary of Columbus discovering America. It also ended up being

what likely remains the single greatest protected bloodbath On

American soil at the hands of an American citizen, the devil in the white

city. Perceptively safe cities caught up in great migrations and

celebrations tend to simultaneously invite in and ignore

homicidal threats at a rate rarely seen in more perceptively

perilous locale. New York, Detroit, Chicago,

Milwaukee. That's perceptively perilous locale. What's a

perceptively safe city? Madison. Madison. Today, if

I had to walk home right right now, if I had to walk home the

3 quarters of a mile of my house, I'd be like, okay. I wouldn't worry

about it. Even going back a 100 years,

Madison hasn't always necessarily been as safe as

we kind of Dream it to be as Money Magazine's number one

place to live. The 19 twenties during the time

of prohibition, a specific Corner in Madison's

downtown was called Madison's death corner. And

you won't find it on any map, in our time anyway, But the intersection

of Murray Street and Desmond Court was once called

Madison's death corner. Between the years 1912

and 1928, it was a site of 6 murders. The intersection is now

occupied by the medical complex 1 South Park It was once

part of Madison's Greenbush neighborhood, also known as Little Italy.

The neighborhood centered around Regent Street, which is known for tailgating on a

Saturday Or many of Madison's medical complexes, but

it once held low income housing and was considered the slum of

Madison. The National Prohibition Act of 1919 Only

exacerbated the problems, turning the neighborhood into the epicenter of

bootlegging activity. Death Corners deceased include

Madison's 1st law enforcement officer to die on the line of duty, Herbert

Drudger. Along with Drudger, Greenbush's queen of

bootlegging, Jenny Giusto, their father, Carl Giusto, were killed

in the area. Vestiges of days gone by held on in name only,

Greenbush Bar and Greenbush Bakery. Little Italian

store, Faboni's, has since closed and moved to nearby Monona.

So that section of the city is only kinda held together by

Greenbush Bar. Greenbush Bakery has since moved down Regent

Street, but that's the last little part of what was

once little Italy. Yeah. But the Italian workmen's club is right. The

Italian that's right that well, that's right by Greenbush Bar, right above it. I put

it's hard there. I barbed one time. If you are looking for The best pizza

in Madison? Fight me. It is at Greenbush Bar.

It's a little dive bar with the best pizza. At

the time in the 19 twenties too, Madison

had the most murders per capita

Wow. Of any city in the United States. Little old Madison. This perceptively

safe city. So when you talk about death corners, Its

nickname and murders per capita.

Madison was a rough place a 100 years ago. And so what we think

of like, oh, safe, small, no problems. Yeah.

Plenty of gangland killings at that corner. We'll blame it on Chicago.

Right. We always do. Yeah. We That's the classic Wisconsin way. Well, we

wouldn't have any problems if it were for all those fibs coming up. That's right.

There's already kind of reputation in Madison. There's also a

famous unsolved killing from even earlier than that, isn't it? Mhmm. So on the

evening of September 5, 1911, Magdalen Lemberger

put her 4 children to bed. All was quiet in their green bush

Madison home. Again, we got green bush. The next morning, the Lembergers

awoke to find their 7 year old daughter. Annie was missing. Citizens and

dozens searched buildings, dumpsters, boxcars, and even

storm sewers for any sign of Annie. 4 days later, a cement

worker found Annie's naked body floating in Brittingham Bay.

The prime suspect was John Dogskin Johnson.

That's an all time name right there. Oh, man. He was a serial child

molester who lived only a block from Annie. Dog skin

Johnson was brought into custody, but But he denied any

involvement. Johnson eventually confessed while an angry

mob formed outside of the jail. Johnson was sentenced and sent to

Waupun. Upon arrival, Johnson lobbied that the confession was

coerced and that he feared for his life if he was released to the mob.

He took the confession so he could be commuted to Lipan for

his safety. But then when he arrived there, he's like, no. That's not true. I

was just afraid for my life because of the angry mom. But a decade later,

a judge would agree to Johnson's appeal. His attorney was able to enter

a new piece of evidence, a key witness. A friend of Lemberger's,

May Sorenson, testified that Annie's father, Martin Lemberger, Struck

her in a fit of rage. This piece of evidence was divulged to her by

the Lemberger's son, Helios. Johnson's conviction was overturned, and

Lemberger was arrested for manslaughter. But the statute of limitations

had to run out. So Martin Lemberger before there's no statute of limitations on

murder. Isn't that crazy? So Martin Lemberger was never tried for the death

of his daughter. In 1933, a new piece of technology was debuted,

and Lemberger's Johnson and missus Sorensen agreed to submit to a

polygraph. So Sorensen failed and she admitted that she was

offered $500 to introduce the testimony. To this day,

it's unclear who abducted and killed Annie Lemberger.

Was it dog skinned Johnson? Was it her father? Or was there another

culprit in this one slum of green bush? It's a tragedy too

because all these unsolved murders of men, innocent

girls. Mhmm. No one's been brought to justice. Yeah. Dog skin Johnson,

he gets away. Dad gets people keep on getting away with

murder. Mhmm. By the time we get to 1968 and Christine

Rothschild murder. Madison is a is a pretty wild place at the

end of the sixties. Mhmm. This is from 1968, a wild time in

Madison by, Stu Levitan is in the Isthmus, August 24,

2008. In 1968, Madison was in fiscal and

political disarray. There was chaos and destruction on campus. A large

segment of the industrial east side was on strike, and city workers waged

sick leave job actions. The bus system teetered on the edge of

failure. Crime spiked. Some Madison men died Vietnam,

while others, along with some Madison women, waged their war at

home. Now that's the famous documentary called The War at

Home. The War at Home talks about Berkeley campus and the protests

against the war, And then Madison is featured in the protest against the war. That's

Paul Soglin's first time on film. You mean UW

Madison Berkeley East Hampers. Right. And Paul

Steiger, who eventually be mayor of Madison for, like, 25 years total in 3 different

decades. He's a student activist. And so he's featured in this war

at home film about these demonstrations that were happening against the

Vietnam War, which would get More and more intense,

eventually, to where we talked about Sterling Hall, Christine Rothschild's body

was found in front of was bombed Because there was an

office inside of Sterling Hall where they

said they were doing some kind of military research.

Mhmm. And it wasn't even, you know, like that, but the protesters thought

they'd get back at them. So I'm saying So the protests were

so intense, people were setting up for blowing things up. And the Red Gym,

you know, there also was a bomb there before the bomb at

Sterling Hall. That one didn't go as successfully, whereas it didn't

really blow anything up. But they also tried to bomb the red gem, the armory.

Their war at home. It really was a war at home in the streets of

Madison in 1968.

Michael Artfield is a Canadian criminologist. He decides

in 2016 to start working on this book,

Mad City, about the campus city killing. And it's because

At his university he was working at in Canada, he had, as a

class, was taking on these criminology students, and they were starting to look at cold

case and starting to follow-up on them. He thought it was interesting that no one

had really been talking about these ones in Madison. And the students were really

interested in them because It was kids their age who'd

been murdered, and that's why they kinda wanted to follow-up on it. So that's why

eventually he'd write this Mad City book, but then he does write an

an article talking about UW Madison during the Vietnam era. This is

from madison.com, March 14, 2018, and this is originally

printed on a website called The Conversation. At least 3 serial killers

stalked UW Madison during its Vietnam protest era, says criminologist

Michael Arntfield. Gateway crimes From peeping and prowling to

stalking lecture halls and dorm rooms, all went unrecognized and were

allowed to escalate amid a larger culture war where the campus

police And even the encompassing Madison City police were effectively told

to stand down and disengage. Again, a familiar refrain today.

Over the years, some murder cases remain unsolved, but they are not forgotten.

In criminology, we refer to episodes such as the 14 year u

w phenomenon From 1968 to 1982 as a place

specific crime. It's a concept still only in its adolescence that

finally recognizes that violent offenders are more and logistically

oriented than previously thought. The concept describes how they proactively

and discriminately select cities and even places within those cities,

such as polarized college campuses to carry out and just as quickly bury

their crimes within a bigger haystack of mayhem, angst, and misguided

aggression. It explains how and why specific physical environments not

only impart some ritual or symbolic significance for the killers, but also how they

exploit police apathy and public disenfranchisement in those same select

locales. It's how and why, as we've confirmed with the Murder Accountability

Project, nearly 15% of all unsolved Stranglings committed in the

United States between 2003 and 2015 have occurred in

the same 12 mile stretch in Chicago. When I wrote Mad City as

a visiting scholar at Vanderbilt University in the winter of 2016, it was

an otherwise untold story of how divisive campus politics And

university administrators, addled by gelatinous vertebrae, enabled the

murders of students, staff, and local Madison residents by

psychopaths hiding in plain sight. And he thinks

he solved the murder of Christine Rostrop.

This is from an An article in the Daily Mirror about Mike Arnfield. Mike

Arnfield has written book Mad City, which looks at the murder of Christine as well

as series of killings in the city. It also explains the lifelong quest by

Christine's best friend, Linda Tomazewski, to bring her killer to

justice. Christine's killer's m o was going to universities and

blending in as a medical researcher. He never finished his research and kept on going

to different universities. The murder has an alarming similarity to one which occurred at his

alma mater a year prior to this, and we know he was there. When Christine

was a student at UW, she She became aware that someone was stalking her,

laying it away outside her window, and making mysterious phone calls. Niels

Bjorn Jorgensen would often be in the memorial reading room where Christine would be

there. She apparently told Linda, her best friend, that she felt he was

stalking her and she was doing all she could to avoid encountering him such as

not going out and locking her doors and windows. Linda told police what she

knew. And despite investigations, almost 50 years after Christine's murder, no

one's been arrested. Nils, Who she has long believed was Christine's killer

now is dead. Mike Arnfield adds, one of the most distressing anecdotes

is that Christine realized she was being stalked. There was evidence that he'd been in

a room. There was a break in where nothing was stolen. And when she reported

this, the advice was to get a whistle So that if he does attack, she

can call for help. She was dead within a week. No, man. He

was named by Christine on the final day of her life as a stalker. There

were no drag marks where her body was found suggesting she had gone there willingly.

This guy later, that same day, pulled a gun at his work. She could easily

have been coerced to that spot with a gun. He then leaves town within 72

hours abandoning all his possessions and later refuses to take a

polygraph. Mike Arnfield claims Nils would have had access to a

scalpel because of his role as a medical researcher. Obviously, remember, surgical

tools were found near the site. And he said one of Neil's fellow researchers later

made a statement that he'd seen him at the hospital Cleaning a scalpel with a

method that remove all DNA and fingerprints. Linda, her best

friend, dedicated her life to finding Christine's killer, and police

Did once listen to her and tried to track him down, but simply lacked the

resources. We'll talk more about that in a second. Her murderer was also

falsely linked, Mike believes, to a serial killer. After failing to get justice

through police, Linda worked in the remaining years to alert anyone to Niels'

whereabouts, particularly when he was close to universities. Without Linda,

Mike believes, there would have been more murder to his hands. He added, she really

was a saboteur. There would have been many more killings and she really screwed up

his plans. And he warns that without more focus on unsolved cases, we could all

be heading for more problems. They talk about Niels

in the Capital Times in 1968.

Ex UW surgeon sought for quiz and coed slang. Capital

Times, September 17, 1968 by Irvin Keenan. Hunt

in Detroit, New York, Dane County sheriff's officers, and Madison police have

turned up what authorities call their hottest tip yet in the Christine Rothschild

murder case, Which occurred at the University of Wisconsin campus last May 26th.

Sought for questioning is a former surgeon who was dismissed from university hospitals on

July 1st. The search for the surgeon has turned to Detroit. 3 officers from

Madison were dispatched there Monday. Sheriff Franz Haas has disclosed this morning

that he had been touched with the trio this morning, But they had been unable

to locate the physician. They reported they had learned possibly he left Detroit

for New York City, and he advised the trio to continue the search to New

York if necessary in order to question the man. Play specific?

Well, this is September 1968. April

1968, doctor Martin Luther King is assassinated. We already talked

about that Madison had riots because of it. Then obviously,

compounded by the Vietnam protest, Detroit And New

York had legendary riots after the assassination of doctor

Martin Luther King. So if someone is looking for a place

Where they can cause trouble, hurt people,

and the police are distracted. Detroit and New York City are right

up the alley of play specific game. By September

21, 1968, Madison detectives gave up on

Jorgensen. Detectives and quiz doctor and coed murder,

Wisconsin State Journal. A former Madison Hospital employee questioned in

New York Thursday by Madison investigators about the May 26th slaying of

Rosschild apparently has been, quote, checked out, unquote.

The investigators are on their way home. University of Wisconsin police chief

Ralph Hanson Said that he heard nothing Friday from the 3 investigators.

I can only assume that the man has been checked out and our men are

on the way with no more leads to follow out there, he said. The 43

year old man who had worked for about 3 months before July 1st at university

hospitals was questioned because of reports that he'd been in Anne Emery dormitory area

of Langdon Street, May 26th, About 4 AM the time miss

Rothschild was last seen alive. He was never a suspect linked to the crime, chief

Hansen said. Well, when Mike Arnfield checked on how that

Investigation went on Thursday. Jorgensen said that he wasn't feeling well and

he'd come into the station on Friday to be questioned by the investigators. Then

he never showed up. They went back to his apartment, and he didn't

answer the door when they went to follow-up. Then they went home. Wow.

Seems highly suspicious. Right. He

doesn't show. He doesn't show feel well. Yeah. We'll do the questions, and then when

they he's like, oh, come in tomorrow. Okay. He's a doctor. Right? He's not

just gonna leave us. Yeah. He's gone. Checks out there.

Linda hunts him down for years, tries to find out where she eventually moves to

Dallas and Texas, Finds out that he might be in Las Vegas. So then she

goes to Las Vegas to find him. His mom dies, eventually moves back to California,

and she's kind of tracking him down. She's sending him kinda postcards,

Keeping track and letting him know that she And she's on no. And

then he eventually just gets too old and dies. Do they think that

she thwarted all of his efforts? Well, that's what Michael Arment

feels. That because he knew he was being watched Mhmm.

That he couldn't really get away with anything anymore. Wow. That's a crazy

story. Yeah. You know, also, I mean, he's from, like, the California area,

so Hollywood. His mother writes a book About a

doctor that kidnaps a woman and kills her. Linda ends up

reading the book because it's never really published. It's like only vanity published

later on. It almost looks like a confession that she knew her son

was a who's a doctor. Yeah. Seems like that. To the murder

of women. Wow. That's a If not, that's quite the coincidence.

Right. So the Mad City book, it's all written in that kind of

hard boiled style, like when I was reading the quotes from it. But it's a

worthwhile read because it's interesting to think about these places that

you've been that are written about in a true crime fashion. Yep. Just

when you're talking about them, talking about Wanakea, I'm thinking I drive down that all

the time. I Right. I had my family photos probably in the field where that

lady was found Right off of Woodland Drive. And it's terrifying

and but Mad City's worth the read if you're from the area and interested in

it because it it really it's Really about this woman's hunt for doctor

Jorgensen less than connecting these different crimes.

Mike Unfield did the legwork. Feels like they Got the

perp and then this lady's kind of crusade to

Yeah. She had known Christine Rothschild for just a few months

Mhmm. Was her good friend, And she was one of the first people that

called after her death, obviously, because would she have any

clues? Yeah. And she just couldn't believe it because it wasn't just A rant wasn't

a car accident. It wasn't even a crime of passion. It was just a

stalk murder. Leave a body. It was stabbed 14 times.

Gloves shoved in her mouth so she couldn't scream out, and she disconnected the Jorgensen.

You said earlier in that news article, Artfield thought that at

least Three killers were on loose during that era? Right.

Because it would have been, first of all, the southeast Wisconsin killings Correct. What's

going on? Chicago and Then you get into Christine Rothschild. Mhmm. You

get Deborah Bennett. And then after that, you have

Julie Speerscheidder, Deborah Hall, Susan LeMahieu. Yeah. I mean, Susan

LeMahieu might have been connected to the guy that threatened the killer, obviously. But then

you have several murders in a row that could have been the same person over

time. Because Jorgensen was already out by the middle of 1968. July 1st,

he's done. He chased them off. Yeah. So then you have several different

active killers in this area. The

police end their investigation into Jorgensen After he just doesn't

show up. Well, okay. Must not be guilty. Might as well come home. These

guys, they couldn't have just stuck around New York for a while, like have a

piece of pizza. Have a street dog. Give it to something. Go to the Statue

of Liberty and then come back to the guy's house. That's not the first time

that police kinda screwed up capital city killings. Capital times.

Evidence lost in at least 4 Dane County cold cases. The Capitol

Times investigation with the handling of evidence in so called cold case homicides

was prompted by a tip from a former sheriff's office employee who alleged

that evidence room staffers in the 19 eighties were ordered to destroy evidence in a

variety of cases, including such major crimes as sex assaults, Vehicular

homicides and murders. Inquiries by the Capital Times to the sheriff's

office concerning evidence in the unsolved murder cases of 4 young women dating

from 1976 to 1981 prompted an internal review

within the agency. The probe revealed that the cases of Shirley Stewart,

whose body was found in a wooded area in the title Westport 1980, a year

after she went missing, Julie Speerschneider, who was missing for 2 years before her

skeletal remains were discovered at the time of Dunne, Nearly all evidence had

been destroyed. And sheriff's officials had also found key evidence in another case,

the 1968 murder of Christine Rothschild had simply

been lost. Wondering why these things

aren't solved, well, they're not, paying attention to the evidence. The

Capital Times initial source who requested anonymity out of concern that blowing the

whistle might compromise their job says that sometime in the mid to late eighties,

A supervisor in the evidence room ordered a major purge to relieve

overcrowding the facility. Of course, the sheriff, in a recent interview,

denied that such a widespread purge occurred, But former evidence technician,

Lew Molnar, who retired in 1990, he says, oh, yeah. It

happened. Yes. So sheriff Moe might even not been there at the time.

Crime in the 19 sixties, why was it so difficult? What

was going on? We look at the, the average amount of Wisconsin

murders in the sixties. 68.4

was the average amount per year in the whole state of Wisconsin. I mean,

you think about gangland fights, You think about murders over money,

and then you think if there's 68 murders happening in a year, and then in

Southeast Wisconsin, we have Christine Rothschild, we have those 4 women found near

Milwaukee. 10% of those murders are like serial killer

murders in the 19 sixties. Yeah. And crime starts

going Way high after that, and it continues

for 2 decades. By the 19 seventies, murders go up to a 129.5

average per year. 19 eighties, a 146.5. And I

remember growing up, you'd see on the Milwaukee news, like, every 3 days there'd be

a murder. And we talked about that in the Dahmer episode, That there was an

epidemic of murders and violent crime in the late

eighties, early nineties in Milwaukee. By the nineties, The average goes up

to 212.8 murders per

year. So from did you say 68 was the first figure? Yeah. Yeah.

Triples in 30 years, and then it starts going down again. By the zeros, it's

a 169.7. By the 2000 tens, it rises up a little

bit, a 179.5. Why was the

jump? You know, what's the reason violent crime might have gone

down? We were talking before today that

If you had 5 or 6 women

brutally murdered, left for dead, bodies found in a ditch

Unsolved. Within a few month period now, we would be

we'll have the pitchforks out or we'll have guns sitting on our door. Neighborhood watch

and Right. You know, don't leave your house after sundown and, you know, be on

every social media platform. Those are horror movie statistics.

Definitely. And then homicides jumped up, and then they

start falling. May of 2001, these

researchers, John j Donahue and Steven Levitt, they're economists.

They're not criminologists or anything like that. They've got a theory on

why they think that Crime has gone down so

significantly from the eighties nineties to the 2000 tens and after

that. And this is from the Quarterly Journal of Economics, May of

2001. The impact of legalized abortion on crime,

John j Donahue and Steven Levitt. Steven Levitt became famous for the book called

Freakonomics. Mhmm. A number of anecdotal empirical facts

support the existence and magnitude of the crime reducing impact of abortion.

1st, we see a broad consistency with the timing of legalization of abortion and its

secret drop in crime. For example, the peak ages for violent crime are

roughly 18 to 24, And crime starts turning down around 1992,

roughly the time at which the 1st cohort born following Roe versus Wade would hit

its criminal prime. Second, as we later demonstrate, The states

that legalized abortion in 1970 saw drops in crime before the

other 45 states and the Columbia, which did not allow abortions to the

Supreme Court decision in 73. Our more formal analysis shows that

higher rates in the states of abortion in 19 seventies, early eighties are strongly

linked to lower crime over the period of 1985 to 1997. This

finding is true after controlled for a variety of factors and influence such as level

of incarceration, number of police, and measures of state's economic well-being.

The estimated magnitude of the impact of legalized abortion on crime is large.

According to our estimates, states with high rates of abortion have experienced roughly

a 30% drop in crime relative to the low abortion region

since 1985. While one must be cautious in extrapolating

our results out of a sample, The estimates suggest that legalized

abortion can account for almost half the observed decline in crime in

the United States between 1991 and 1997.

That was one theory. Why was it so like, it

jumps and then it drops because the criminals didn't

get a chance to be alive. The second and this comes in the in

the mid 2000. This is Jessica Reyes, and this is from the National Bureau on

Economic Research in May 2007. The impact of

childhood lead exposure on crime. Do you remember you were a

kid and you could still buy unleaded and regular

gasoline? I don't remember that, but I remember

seeing the signs for unleaded and how it was so

prominently. Right. So you have unleaded now you have,

like, 3 different kinds of, you know You have 3 different grades, but they're all

unleaded. Right. Yeah. It seems like it would go without Saying

now that any gas pump you drive up to is gonna be unleaded. Right. You

can't buy regular gas. Exactly. When I was kid in the early eighties,

They still had unleaded and regular. And the idea is that lead

exposure might have done it. So Jessica Reyes writes, There are

substantial reasons to expect that a person's lead exposure as a child could affect the

likelihood that he might commit a crime as an adult. Childhood lead exposure

increases the likelihood of behavioral and cognitive traits such as

impulsivity, aggressivity, and low IQ that are strongly associated with

criminal behavior. Under the 1970 Clean Air Act, Lead was almost entirely removed

from gasoline between 1975 and 85. Children exposed to

significant lead in the early seventies may have been more likely to grow up to

be impulsive or aggressive adults who committed crimes in the late eighties and early nineties.

On the other hand, children born in the eighties who experienced dramatically

lower lead exposure after the phase out of lead from gasoline may have

been much less likely to commit crimes when they become adults in the late nineties

and early 2000. As each cohort approaches adulthood, the sharp declines in lead exposure that

occurred declines in lead exposure that occurred between 1975 and 85

would be revealed in the behavior as adults. By the year 2020, all

adults in their twenties and thirties will have grown up without any direct exposure to

gasoline lead in childhood, and their crime rates should be correspondingly

lower. Xi constructed a panel of state year observations by linking crime rates

in a state in a given year had childhood lead exposure in that state 20

or 30 years earlier. The link between lead and crime is thus

identified off of the variation of lead exposure in crime over time within the

state. Some states got rid of leaded gasoline earlier

and so she shows that the crime rate had dropped

Before states that had much like the in the states with abortion,

the crime rate dropped lower faster than the states who had

Taking more time with the lead gasoline. Lead exposure is measured

both as lead in gasoline and lead in the air. And these lead exposure measures

are tested against individual level blood data on children's level okay.

The elasticity of violent crime with respect to childhood lead exposure is

estimated to be 0.8. This implies That between

1992 and 2002, the phase out of lead from gasoline was responsible

for approximately a 56% decline in violent crime.

That's significant. Right. So we have 2 studies looking at the

statistics of crime and 2 huge things that happened In the

US in the 19 seventies, number 1, legalization abortion, number 2, the

unleading of gasoline. Mhmm. And what they're using

is that state data To show the difference. The show That

there is a a correlative trend. They're saying, well, here's one of the

reasons that we think it's this, it's because states that changed earlier, Crime dropped

faster. Mhmm. We should assume today that crime should keep

going down and down and down. We can only hope

so. Right? Right. Except this

is from Wisconsin Public Radio, Tuesday, March 8,

2022. 2021 is the highest number of

murders in Wisconsin on record. Wisconsin had

315 homicides in 2021. That's a

70% increase from 2019.

University of Wisconsin Milwaukee criminology professor Theodore Lentz Said

he's not surprised violence increased in 2020, 2021.

He said people feel like their needs aren't being met and they lack confidence in

public safety, which are precursors violence. We kinda had the

perfect storm, Lance said. We had the COVID nineteen pandemic, and when you

couple that with the massive amount of social unrest that we had, the protests,

and additional incidents with police shootings that kinda just kept the spark

thriving. Violent crime in the United States peaked in the nineties.

Criminologists aren't exactly sure where the crime wave of the 19 nineties slowed

even though these economists seem like they have an idea.

But criminologists also don't know what will make this spike in

homicides go down. Let's say. We talked

about the big jump in the seventies to the nineties and

then went down big. And now in the past couple of

years, it's gone bigger than ever. If

we're saying place specific killings, once

again, these moments of unrest might

offer opportunities to predators. So what

I hope is that police have learned the lessons

in the past 50 years Since the murder of Christine Rothschild

that hopefully, when these kind of things happen again, these guys won't

get away with a bunch. Yeah. We can only hope so. Capital city

killings, which I had not realized were linked to much

more And just the murders around Madison. So if you guys would like to

see some of these places that we talked about and the legends in

person, you can find more At my haunted history tour

company, American Ghost Walks. And if you wanna have a

lot of fun on Instagram and Facebook and get news stories almost every

single day. Magiland Legends on Instagram and Facebook.

I live in Madison, so it is often a topic of

my my legends. So stay safe out there, stay weird, and And we'll

talk to you next time on Wisconsin Legends