Hi, I'm Nina Endrst.

I'm Anna Toonk. Welcome to how to be human, a podcast that explores the common and often confusing themes of humaneness

On this episode, Anna and I discussed the end of an important chapter.

Take a seat clear mind, and let's chat. We get

that re recording, I love that.

I felt like a little kid before you get caught playing hide and go seek whereas like, am I gonna make it? I might know it was gonna record I saw I saw it come in I don't care. Hi. Hi, where to begin? Where to start? I think it's more not to punt. But I think it's more your story. And you have never, you know, I know, no definition y'all are, maybe we're going to do more of a live explaining of a definition.

So I have been thinking and thinking and feeling. And there's a lot in the past couple years that I think I have tried to make happen. Career wise, because I felt a couple of reasons. One, because I felt really pressured from the inside to make things happen to be more collaborative, to, to work more this way to try that thing to do something bigger to do something more expensive to try a podcast. All these things were like very much rooted in thing in like a real desire and a want. They weren't vanity projects, they weren't things I was trying to, you know, just do in and stop, start stop. And I'm really sensitive to that, in general, because I don't want to start and stop a lot of projects. It's just something I've always, I think been really sensitive to. But what I've realized is I've come pretty full circle in the past, like couple of days in, I don't really want to be out there the way I thought that I wanted to be out there. So I have worked, you know, one on one with clients. And that is like really a lot of behind the scenes stuff. You know, it's not you're not out in the world. And I don't feel like I want to hide quite the opposite. I feel like I just really want to be present in the things that I'm doing and do less by doing things. Just that I really, really, really feel not like passionate about it because I am passionate about this. But just like kind of can't eat can't sleep without it, which sounds maybe silly, but I really love being a present mom, I really love working with my clients, I really love movement. And like, that's all I really have capacity for right now in in a way. And the bigger picture is just I think I've chased something for a couple of years. And maybe longer than that, definitely longer than that, that I've realized, I really don't need like the external validation that I thought I did. And that has really shifted the choices that I'm making. And this podcast was not about external validation. But it was something that I thought was going to go a lot longer for me like I really, really did. And I've loved it. And I, I love working with you this way. And I love talking to you. And I'm so grateful for everybody who's listened. I just really have had to be real, that this isn't something that I can show up for any more the way that I want to. And so I don't want to do it if I can't be fully in it. So I'm not going to be doing it anymore. There it is. So it's bittersweet for sure. For sure for sure. But Anna is going to be doing it which I'm very happy about. I'm fully I want to be like really clear. This is not a like me and Anna thing. This is a me thing. Also it does affect Anna because she is my partner, right? And so it is about me and Anna and that way, but it's not like something happened or it's not going well. That's not it at all. Like we've had maybe two, you know, things in the entire time we've worked together. Other than that it's been really smooth and really respectful. And even this like this isn't an easy conversation to have. And Anna can speak more to it. But like she didn't love the way I delivered the news and I totally hear that. So we have pretty we're pretty real with each other which I appreciate. But I just I kind of want to live like a quieter life. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I do. And I also think that we have I think we have different drives in a lot of ways. You know, I thought about that in Italy a lot, like, in terms of thinking about, like, what makes me happy and what I want and what kind of life I want to build for myself. And I realized, like, a big thing for me is adventure, which I feel like for you is your nightmare. And I forget why. Like, it kind of occurred to me, you know, like, I forget what it was that I was like, laughing about, like thinking because, you know, like, how part of how Italy came about was like, me being on your couch. And like, we were like, lot, you know, like laughing about them, like, let's go to Italy, you know, and then I was like, I really want to do that I keep coming back to that, you know what I mean? And not to say that you don't do adventurous things, or whatever. But like, it's not where you're I know, you know, like, a lot of what you really enjoy is my nightmare. Like you like the the routine of your life. You know what I mean? Like you like, like, we get up, we have snugs time we get, you know, I have coffee, like you like all that. And that makes me feel. I'm trying to figure that out for myself of what doesn't make me feel confined. But what does feel like supportive structure. So it's like, I just think in a lot of ways on we're not very, like, it's like, the parts of ourselves that are different, or like, part of what's driving us. Yeah, right now. Well, totally agree. You know, so, that's tough to be on the same page, and not that I felt like we have weren't on the same page. But I think that it makes it difficult to obviously make the same level of commitment. And that's, like, in anything you're gonna do with anybody. Like, if you're not equally committed, that's gonna I mean, that's gonna, that's gonna

tell like, you know, Anna does our Instagram 100% Like, credit where credit's due, I've never done anything for that. And she did the substack. And what started to not feel good for me is exactly why I came to the decision because I got clarity on it. At first, I just thought I was like, not like, maybe I was not showing up to the moment to like, dig deep and like, find the things and be because I was, you know, thought you would do it better or that was like stuff I had to like, make sure I wasn't wasn't the thing, right? I was like, Is it because Anna can like, grab a bunch of things and like, create this magical newsletter and you would rather like, bash your head against the wall to make a newsletter is like, is that it? No, it just, it's, it's, I don't, I feel like I've run so far away from like, the kind of person I've become as an adult for so long. Like, I couldn't stand still for one second when I was in my 20s. And even my early 30s. Like, I didn't want to and so I totally understand that need for adventure and, and not liking monotony, or ritual or routine, not ritual, but like, routine and but what I've realized is like, I'm my best when I'm doing those things. And I had like a horrifying thought the other day and I when I was like cleaning my house, and I was like you really liked like, keeping your home. And I was like,

Yeah, but I think a lot of people I do. And I don't I didn't

think I was going to be one of those people. And I think for so long, I didn't think my practice was enough. I didn't think my work was enough. I was like, I love working one on one. But I want more I want bigger I want like to be out there I want to be known not in like a gross like fame whore kind of way. But just like my work is bigger, my work is bigger. And then I was like, What are you looking for? Like? Because I see the numbers for how to be human and I'm thrilled. And I'm also like, nothing's changed for you. Right? Like you're still feeling the same. So what is it that you actually really truly want to commit yourself to? And what I really want to commit myself to is like, the three things right like and that's it. Two things really, and my family and my friends obviously but like, as far as work goes, like I want to create a movement, like space wherever I go, and I really think and you're the one that made me really click like this click for me was the community aspect I don't think before I worked with you, before I knew you. I was really scared to be part of a community. And I'm definitely not like a huge part of the community and Hudson, because I feel like we're moving in because I just don't like, you know, whatever, a million different reasons. Pandemic blah, blah. But what you really clarified helped clarify for me was like, that's actually something I do want. I think it's really powerful and really want to be, you know, part of a community in that way, teaching wherever I go, and also doing the one on one work. And like, that's really what I want to be doing. And that doesn't have that's not small, you know, it doesn't, that doesn't have to be not enough. But I had to, like, get over myself too. And be like, are you doing this? Because you really want to do it? Are you doing this? Because you think you should do it? Or because you think there's like some prize on the other side of doing it? Like, what's the goal? And what's the intention?

Yeah, and I think we have to do a lot of stuff. You know, just to know, you know, like, there's tons of things I've done that I don't still do today, but like, I don't regret, you know, like, I had to be like, I don't want to do that, or that led me to this or whatever, you know, I think that it can be, I think it's really difficult also to for women, especially for moms to give themselves permission to like, just be moms is wildly and that not feel like their pumpkin out or like I think they're in something I want to be really clear about is like, I don't think anybody wanting to prioritize their children or family or whatever, like, is a sell out. And you know, I think there's a lot of stuff in feminism about, like, if somebody does want to focus more on, you know, on their home, or you know, tending home and all that comes with that, and mothering and you know that they're like, not a feminist or they're not, you know, and I like I personally think that women should do whatever the fuck they want to do. You know, like, that's, that's where I'm at with that. So I just want to be very clear about that, that I don't that swinging, I really, but I do think a lot of women can cause confusion. Sometimes I think, in work relationship, trying to work that out, you know, because I think identity is really tough. I think motherhood is really tough. I think figuring out like, what you want for yourself, what works for your family and home and what you know, like, what maybe you did want, but now you're a new you like, that's something I've even been dealing with and like, I don't have the peace of you know, people being dependent or, you know, my decisions mattering or affecting them. Then I'm like, oh, yeah, that's like a legacy goal. That's not really a goal for you right now. You know, like, and I think the pandemic changed a lot of shit. You know, when Ed and I were talking about kind of, like goals for the podcast, and she's like, you know, I think if somebody wanted us to, like, Go speak somewhere, you'd be done. I was like, No, I don't want to go talk to people like no, you know. And stuff. I mean, who knows, if people want to hire me to go talk to people, maybe you never know, my talkative gal. But, um, you know, I do think a lot has changed. I don't think it's so weird. I think an you know, when, when Nina and I talked about, like, recording this episode of being honest, and being willing to talk about it, and all of that, you know, suddenly that was important to me was that aspect of like, they're, like, we all have to allow ourselves a certain like, wrestling out of things and ideas and stuff we want to be, and it is figuring out how to communicate that, you know, that like, kind of makes or breaks, I think relationships and things like that, you know, in the way you just feel inside, and how this felt like a really good example of like, both and, you know, like, I you know, I get I don't want Nina to stay somewhere, you know, she doesn't feel like she's called to be in and if she doesn't feel like her energy is here. I don't want her to stay here. You know, but it's also a bummer, you know, an end of an era of some kind, you know, so to me, like, it felt important to highlight that that like, things don't always have to be like, cataclysmic or like bombs going off like in an ending, you know, like, it can be something that I think you can stay with you know and and wrestle it out. It feels like a wrestling out for me like, that is kind of what comes to mind. And it's if you don't my mom's a Buddhist now it's fucking irritating. Same way and annoying. So annoying, especially to since my aim and

I don't think that it is if you keep saying it.

Yeah, it won't. She also has to keep like mentioning the one book she's read. And I'm like, I did like a year long thing at the Buddhist temple, but okay, but an arguing with your mom about who's more Buddha's really feels like a loser, you know, like argument. But she was talking to me yesterday, about, you know, she's like, this book is just like really changing me, am I Oh, God, and, but she's like, it's making me realize how often you can have like, different conversations with people or different conflicts, even with them. If you'll be humble, and if you'll come in and go, I don't know what's up, I'm not going to make assumptions, or I'm not gonna rush to stories or anything, I'm going to stay with the way I feel and be humbled to like, what what comes up, like what shakes out, you know, and I was, like, interesting that this is now telling me this, you know, and I was like, that's a good, that's a good reminder. And a good thing. I don't know about you, but lots of times in conflict, it was absolutely my own shit. And like, either really being sure of something or, you know, being like, I know, they wanted to hurt my feelings or whatever.

That really made repair or a path forward. Or, like, you know, I

or even a productive conversation. You know, like, it's

like, you and I definitely had different ideas of what, like, happened or how it felt going in. And yeah, the conversation didn't start with, like, rainbows flying out of our asses, you know, and but like, we could really, I listen, you listened. We're like, the tone never got above this level. Like we, we both characters respect each other enough to actually listen and I think, assume the best of the other even when it feels like shit, right?

Yeah, and I think like, it's something I've been thinking a lot about, is control, and how little we have, and how little control we have of other people. You know, we about that so much, too. That's so funny. And it's like, you know, and I think Nina knows this about me, like, if it like, I would never be like, Oh, my God stay like, like, what do you need, you know, that, like, if someone's, I've always been the person, like, if you want to go go, you know, like, I mean, I may be like, I mean, as there's nothing we can bags, you know, like, I mean, I think I've been like, okay, but like, um, and I just think so often, like, where we make stuff, like so much harder and more painful for ourselves, is just trying to exert control, versus just like, acknowledge how you feel, you know? And that's really what I kept coming back to because I was like, you know, I'm like, why am I I don't, I'm like, it's, you know, it's an hour a week, I don't understand what you can do and interesting. And I'm, like, you know, it's not really about an hour away. You know, I'm like, you know, like, you know, it's more than that. And I also know like that that's that is a denial of like the energetics. And it's like, I don't know about you, but whenever I've denied the energetics that's also blown up in my fucking face. You know, I appreciate the where you're like,

it's a very real thing to point out.

Yeah, to be like, I mean, it's like the dude who's like, yeah, a total lovey boob and you're like, okay, even though I didn't feel the love whatsoever, like, Guess why that eventually did not go well. Like at some point, I was like, I cannot ignore the energetics of this situation. No more. You know, I remember this guy that I used to go out with and like, every time I left him, I would have like, the worst diary of my life. And I was like, Anna, I think you need to, like, pay attention like I don't think you're

I can't believe it's like my worst nightmare. I

know. I appreciate You're doing it now. But I really had to drive it home of just how cataclysmic My body's response was, every time every day, I would get home and my body was like, and, you know, and for awhile, I was like, Oh, I must have been something like, on the date, it must have been, you know, I was like, This is so aware. And then I started noticing, like, Oh, my, like, my stomach hurts the whole time. I'm with him, you know, like, oh, you know, like, I started to piece it together. And I think so much of that is about, like, trying to control what you can't, you know, like, trying to be like, I can't really, you know, like, I'm not in the place except this person, you know, like, Isn't doesn't feel the same way I do. So, let me go. And ignore the effect it's having on me. Yeah, toe to toe to dairy. It's not at all the denial of what the situation is. Yeah, I have a feeling and, you know, it's made me realize that, like, if you, like, if you can see things for what they are, like, it does feel a lot better, you know, like, allowing you to be you and me to be me, like, Lets me show up and being, you know, neutral. You know, like, lets me be like, there's, you know, there's two people, you know, like, I think when you get really just caught on, like, you know, it's like, obviously, this can happen with, like, without you like, I don't have to be like, Oh, my God, like, I don't have to, like, go through all these hoops and make things even you don't like make stuff super tense between us and all this stuff to like, hold on to something, it's like, it'll just be easier for you. If you just like sort of put whatever it is on the table and like, look at it, like that's going to be easier than trying to control or deny or avoid or whatever.

I said to you know, I was when I was talking away about it. I was like, I want to be friends with Anna. Like, I don't know what the future brings. But all I want. Like, if I kept going and denied the energetics of it, we wouldn't be friends. I would usually chicken is absolutely true. And and we wouldn't be friends and there would be no podcasts or would be a shitty podcast, and then no podcast and then we wouldn't be friends. So like, I had to be very honest with myself of like, you might not be ready right now as in, you could commit to an hour a week because I had the same thought like, it's not. It's not that it's a time suck. It's not that it's that I care deeply about you and I care deeply about it. So it does take up space for me, energetically. Yeah, that's right. I get that. And so I have to be like, I can't deny that all I want but it but it does. And

well, no me saying it's just an hour I think is like my way of also like, How can I overcompensate to make someone stay? You know, like, that's also my own shit versus like, to be clear, it's like, of course, no

one I agree with you, I

had the same you know, just me baseline isn't ours. Like, you know, I

overextend myself, even if it doesn't seem like that, like her, right? Or to make this work or to make right her feel like I'm not leaving her high and dry. Whatever, right? That's the same place I go first. And then I'm like, That's not actually like kind to anybody and definitely not kind to her. So and it's not kind to yourself. So what what do you actually want? And I just think like, a lot my ego has taken, like, so many hits over the past couple of years with work stuff that like, I'm, I don't feel like 100% unfuckable with but I kind of do, where I'm like, you don't have to do anything. It doesn't say anything about you if you do or don't do them. Like you really have to follow what feels right and what you're clearly able to show up for. Right like in as your whole self and I just when I feel like parts of myself drifting away in this. You know, like, that's when I have to whatever this is, that's when I have to be like alright, what is this? Is this me? Just kind of being avoidant? Is this me being scared of something? Or is this me starting? Is this thing starting to dissolve for me and why? And I have to like really be true to myself and true to you and say that but I think a lot of people are afraid to switch lanes and to drop things and you are very much vocal about. You've said it here today like working it out. And I just don't think a lot of people give themselves the space to do that. Like I hear with clients all the time. I'm afraid to Whoo. Hopscotch, I'm afraid to like, set it set the term, like,

I think so, like, just go from dropping, dropping,

I'm this now I'm not now blah, blah. And but there's there's a couple, like, I think ways you can kind of figure out if that's what you're doing or not that it matters either way

Well, I think it's also like, be aware that it's a criticism people can have, you know, like, I think, like a lot of things. You know, I'm like, be aware, it's what someone could say. And also be aware that you're going to disregard it. Right. You know, like, if you kind of prep yourself, like, if you've jumped from thing to thing, yes, a criticism someone could could throw your way is that you, you quit things, or you jump from thing to thing. All right, and, and what they now define you, like, I think it's important for all of us to sort of like, remember that, you know, like this stuff that I think we, we forget that it just starts as like, kind of a passing fear or thought of like, but what like, what are people gonna think? And it's like, anyone who thinks that like, aren't your people. So it's kind of irrelevant. You have to ask yourself, like, what part of you like something I'd like to talk to you about more is like, I think it's interesting that you sort of realize like, I don't I don't want what I thought I wanted. I don't and and what was maybe what do you think was driving that even to begin was I really wanted

to be seen? Not again, it wasn't about like fame? It wasn't about you know, not at all.

Nina secretly harbors a desire to be an answer. That's what they're gonna see her.

Going to be

pleased by your tea.

They asked me to because I don't care. I think I've been trying to prove something for a long time that started at the beginning of my career. I truly feel like this is kind of an end of a massive cycle. For me. That has been the last How will the my you know, God wait to since 2007. Basically, how many years is that?

That's, um,

can I did 2013 years? Okay.

Yeah. Right. I was like, it's more than 10. It was like, it's more than 10.

I have been at points in all, its 1518 years. That doesn't seem right. But I agree. Because I'm bad at math. There have been so many times where I've gone for the job that I think that will prove something to me about me. And it's not about

that's what, okay, that's that was my I was gonna ask who like, in the proving of things? Who who are

you proving me and my principal who like, definitely doesn't know where I am. Yeah. But me, you know, it's not about other people. I'm not worried about what other people think of me or what, like, I really, truly not in that way. It's not that i It's me, it's like just this desire to be like, you're not a fuckup you can, like master this, you can do that you can like work here, you know, coming from like, a place where I was a horrible student and could not, you know, retain information the same way as like my peers. Like coming out of, of high school of college and having a job at CVS when most of my counterparts were like floundering in the recession and had no jobs or were like, whatever I was like, okay, must have done something right. Meanwhile, misery, but I, I was like, you've done something, right. Like you're doing it. And I think I started to pack that away is like, Okay, now you're an img now you're working at Fashion Week, like now, like, all of these kind of names and like big places and all and stuff that I'm like, see, like, you can do that you can do whatever you want. And so when it became my own personal business, at first that was not even on my radar. And I think it's interesting that this is different, because this, this is not. This was not that at all. But I think this is like getting to a certain level would be that and that's where I kind of was like, the continuing of this is feels like it's going to turn into that or it has some like shadowy stuff like that, and I then I had to look at that because the whole reason I started Sol I thought was too. I mean, there's a reason I did it. And I'm so happy I did because I met you and we did this. But it wasn't from a place that I'm like, super proud of. Because I think I that. At first the intention was good, and then it ran away from me. And then it became proving something to myself. And that's why it didn't work.

Well, I mean, don't you think

everything's sort of proving so I suppose I in some eyes, yes. But like, even if it comes from like, a good way, yes, I've seen when it gets set up and think you're being hard. I don't think you I mean, I don't think I don't really think that's a man actually. But I, it's, I don't think I'm being hard on myself. I think I'm being real. Like I think I'm just like, it didn't feel good in my body. You know, how to be human felt? Yeah, body soul never did. And I know it, but I pushed through and I was like, no, but like, this is gonna be big, and you're gonna, like, get all these teachers and blah, blah, blah. And it wasn't like, I was like, money hungry asshole about it. I it was just, it wasn't like my truest self that was building it. You know, but like, I felt my, I felt my best when I was doing my movement videos, but like, why didn't I just do my own buck and movement videos? You know, and, and where I'm coming back to now where it's like, I'm not isolating myself, because I just want to focus on my own business. But that's really just what I want to do. I just want to focus on my own business. I just want to work with people one on one. And I just want to teach classes. And that's all I want to do right now. And that is all they want to do for the foreseeable future. And that's okay.

Yeah, I think it can be also difficult, because working on your own is lonely. And I think it's also difficult. To constantly keep yourself engaged and inspired and interested and stuff like that. Reading for clients is a little bit different, you know, but I think anything, if you're putting something out in the world, I think it can be hard to keep doing that sometimes from like, just from yourself, you know? So I think it's tricky for people in our position of like, how do you collaborate? You know, I also think, like, I stand by what I said, I think you are being hard on yourself, because I think that everybody comes to things with multiple, you know, motive, I guess you're right. And I don't think all of them are 100%, you know, would pass muster. And the angels of heaven would say, Come on, in, you know, like, I think we do things for lots of reasons. And I think we, you know, like, I think we feel shame around a bit. Like, they're totally fine. Like, I think it makes a lot of sense, if you've been working on your own and isolated for numerous reasons, you know, to be like, I want to do something with other people. And I also feel like I'm at a place in my career, and in my knowledge, were like, I want to go bigger, I want to go further, or I want to manage more people or what you know, like, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting different experiences, you know, and like, wanting to know, what is the world of that, you know, and even and even wanting it to, like, be like, I wait, it's hard for us to make more money, it's hard for us to scale our businesses and like, if you want your life to progress, financial development is a part of that, you know, like, the, the fact of the matter is, is if you're just a reader, you know, like, there's only one of you so you can only ever make so much money unless you become one of those people who were not so down with who's like a reading with me has $5,000 I'm

not gonna name obviously, but I will tell you off pod and I can't wait to tell you who is like, posting how her new program is all about how she's going to teach you how to make what she did, which was $400,000 teaching people, you know how to be a spiritual leader. And I was like, wow, you actually put the price to

you know it. If you're gonna sign up for that, listen, like one I don't think you should, but to if you're if you're hell bent on it, and you think someone you come across like that has the answer for you. I hope you email and ask them for a copy of

the amount because that they've made like that, to me is someone

who didn't make that.

Is this new, like,

calling to clear $400,000? Like, that means let's see, you had to make over a million with taxes. And I'm sorry, I don't think there's a lot of people who are doing this kind of work. Who are making that kind of money if they're not exploiting

people. I don't doubt that she made it but the fact that you're you what you really want to teach is how to exploit people. And that's, that's a different course. But you might as well just call it that. And yeah, I think,

I mean, I guess you can learn a lot more and do it more quickly if you take one of those courses. But listen, you can just exploit people every day. I mean, you can just do it you can do for free start, you could say, you know, like, go get some wacky, you know, outfits and get a good photographer, and you can start up your Instagram tomorrow. I mean, not hard. There's tons of people you can look at, you know, so I think, though, like, I think that something for me that, you know, as has come up for you and I has been the confusion of me being like, about, you're saying you want this, but then, you know, and I think it makes sense. And I think like, it's a no, no, but as I

because I don't think I I am a very clear communicator, but what I am confused about something, and I don't have a grasp on it. I'm not showing up in a clear way. So like, I say, I want one thing, but like, my actions are, you know, something else? And that. I know, that's been hard. And I've tried to be like, conscious of that. But, and I think you have a very different way of working obviously, too. But like, it's something that I also had to be like, Okay, well, you don't really have trouble showing up in this way. So in this place, so why do you have trouble showing up here? You know, like, gotta kind of do some deeper digging.

But do you think it's it's funny, because like, I've had this conversation with my mom, and we've like, laughed about it that like, when, like, when she was doing something that she says in the moment, she knew, like she did not want to do. And so she was like, being still like, also, like, super dramatic. Oh, you know, I'm just, I'm making it weirder than it needs to be. My mom doesn't even know how to find a podcast. So I'm just gonna say it. But when my mom marry this dude that she didn't really want to marry. She was like, Oh, my God, when we were in the justice of the peace office, it was like, you know, there it was, like, like, on the dream. She, I mean, she was so fucking dramatic. I can't even tell you of just like, I've been in love before, but never like this. And I was like, that's so cool. You know, you were like, married to my father. Right? Like, you know, I just it was just, it was so odd. Like, I can't even tell you and not you were never at that level. But like, sometimes you flirted a little bit with it.

Like, I've never done cocaine. But I I. But I imagined that some of our conversations sounded like I did, because I would get like all hype on it. And I and it's not that those that wasn't real.

It was like you were doing specific career. Okay, yes. Wow. Which was even more confusing at times. I just went and so when I was like, teasing my mom about, like, when she was telling about. I mean, I think it's just Adderall. But um, so when my mom was like talking about this, and I was like, oh, there's a little something I've learned about you. And she's like, oh, yeah, what's that? I said, the more you're talking something up, I know, you're talking to you, not to me. And she was like, Oh, you're like, you're right. You know, like, because I was like, I, I'm not necessarily naive, or gullible, however, I'm like, um, I don't really like to waste my time. So if you tell me something, I'm just gonna take your word for it. You know, so if you're telling me like, it was just like, it was just us in that justice of the peace, you know, Am I alright? She's on board, you know, that, like, I'm not going to read between the lines to be like, she's secretly miserable. You know, like, that would make me a crazy person, you know? Yeah, well, because it's just like, I mean, because also, what good does it do? If I say to her, I don't think you're really handling anyone to marry him. She's not gonna say you're right. Thank you. Let's leave, you know, like, she's, she's, it's happening, you know, um, and that's something I've thought about of, like, it's not so much that I won't let people change their mind, but I can, I'll be like, but you said this, you know, like, I will get hung up on that. And I, it's been interesting for me to learn, like, what level of attachment I sort of need to have just some of that stuff. Like, because I will take it like so literally, you know, and it's like, we all say it 1000 Things In a day, you know, and do what 10% of it. You know, like, if we all went around and said, You know what, on this day you said you were gonna do this you never did on this day you said you were gonna go to Sardinia? Have you been to Sardinia yet? Like, we would all like, we would all just turn into like, asshole cops, like all the time to each other, you know. But it is, like, interesting to me. Sometimes when I think that we're, we're suffering or we're not happy that as human beings, our reaction is to double down on making it even more confusing for the people around us, which like, I know, I've done I can't think of an example. But like, I know, I've done it, you know, and then been like, well, actually, kind of like how things happened with DPC. Like, when I got I was like, Whoa, grief work was not for me, you know, and it was like, really allowing myself to say it and get out of it, like, made it so clear to me how much I was trying to make it work for myself. But I do think it's like, that's a, like, tricky thing we do sometimes I think to like, try to make ourselves be clear, or Sure. We're like, what if I dial this up to like, 100? And then see how I feel?

I feel like it's like another part of me that like was that you know what I mean, I think that's a huge thing that I had to decide and come to terms with was like, that's not true. That's not not true. But is it the part of you that you really want to expand? Hmm, and it was

Yeah, or like, is that the part of you that like, you're with exam most of the day, you know, like, what

I had to really be like, to zero in on and say, this is, because I never was miserable here. I never was unhappy here. Even you know, it was just TierPoint. Exactly. There was obviously a disconnect. I had to be like, That's you. That's Nina too. But the Nina that you really want to, like nurture and be with? Right now. And for, you know, the foreseeable future isn't is not that Nina. So like, You got to kind of pick one because it does make it confusing for other people. And because you do want this person in your life, and you do respect this project. So you want it to go on and be successful, whatever that means. Like, you have to, you have to pick?

Yeah, so I did. Do you feel any sense of grief or like you're letting go to have like, a part of yourself? I don't mean, the pod. I mean, in terms of like that party, I

don't feel grief, as much as I feel like relief. I think I feel a lot of relief of like, I've, I've kind of exhausted it. And I don't feel bad about it, I just feel really done with it. I feel like I've, I've done, I've done it. And I don't really feel the need to do it anymore. I think I to a lot of it has to do with the fact that we're looking at houses and like moving back to the place that I'm from not the town that I'm from God help me but the state that I'm from, and, you know, so much of my adolescence was like, can't wait to get the fuck out of here. You know, like, fuck this place. Yeah, these people and like, even though I had an amazing group of friends that I, you know, felt like very safe with at the time, like, I want nothing. She was kinetic. I was like, there's a big ass world out there, you know. And so it's humbling to, to go back to like that and be really excited to like, go there and to live there and have not, I'd have no shame about that. Because if this was like, 10 years ago, five years ago, I think I would have had shame about that. I also think I've held on to New York as like a state, which sounds ridiculous. But for a long time, because it was like my independence. You know, like, I moved to New York City by myself. And that's where I lived. And like, even though my dad lived there, like I never saw him. He lived in Brooklyn anyway. Yeah. And it was like my place and so just being here, and you know, moving around, wherever just felt like not there. But I think that's to come full circle for me where I'm like, whatever makes you happy, makes you happy. Like, just own it.

Yeah, and I don't think it's always like, what we think or like, what we want, you know, Like, I talk to my therapist about this all the time that like, what's healthiest for us what's best for us is like, not always the sexiest option, you know, like, it's often like, it is the thing right in front of you, like, it is the thing that you've been fighting or what you know, like, it's, she's like, I think public can be very sexy. And like, you have to say that you're a therapist, but, and I'm not saying that healthy isn't sexy, like, we all have to change our ideas. But like, you know, when you're younger, you're like, I want to be the, you know, like, it's like, the world is your oyster, like, it's this big, like you said, it's like, there's a big world out there, and I want to see it, and then you get to some point, you're like, I, I like to get rest. And I like consistency, you know, it's like, you settle into those truths that like, you know, I don't think have to be limiting or confining. But they, they're, they're there they are, what they are, you know, that, um, you can either fight it, or you can figure out how do you how do you build the life that you want? And I think like, that's what's really difficult is for all of us, we have to build the life that we want. And the truth of that is, it's going to be at odds with other people, you know? And how do you? How does How can you still, I think, maintain connection, versus that always being like burning a bridge or a fracture or something, you know, because like, I think about this all the time, in terms of like, boundaries, and self care and all this stuff. And it's like, Melissa actually sent me an article that was like, the pandemic has made all of us jerks. And I was like, there is a truth to that, like, everyone feels so entitled to taking care of themselves, that we're forgetting that like, choosing to take care of yourself, like no is not a bad thing. But we do have to honor I think that generally, it's gonna affect someone else. Like whether that's literally like, people are giving their labor or, like, if you say, I cannot commit to that, and someone's disappointed, you know, like, we we have to allow for all of that, I think like for us to sort of get to some sort of compromise state of like, things are sort of working, you know, like, people are sort of getting their needs met or whatever, but I think is incredibly difficult to do and pull off. You know, as it relates to the future of this podcast, I'm going to be gonna be rail gonna be rail rail with everyone and be like, I don't know what the future holds. What I do know what I can guarantee everybody is I'm going to continue if the idea of hearing me blather on for an hour, every week makes you want to cry, guess what, me too. So there's probably going to be some guests. I'd also like to get y'all more involved and have a way either for you to call in which makes me laugh, whatever, like, yeah, like what, what, what decade are we in or having a number so you can leave voicemails or things like that, I would love to put the prompts out there with, you know, to y'all in some way. So I don't I don't know what that's gonna look like and I hope that y'all will grant me some patience and Grace while I figure that out. I think we're gonna take a two week break we said, I don't know there might be a little gap in episodes but know that it's coming back and whatever the new iteration is going to be. So that's just a little bit of those mechanics, you know, it'll still show up in your feed you won't need to like resubscribe or anything it's literally just gonna be a little bit of a pause Well, you know, we figure out what's next and or I figure that out and then but before we wrap up I just wanted to obviously thank Nina for the ride it's been a lot of fun and give you space to say anything you want before you sign off

absurd that this came after the identity episode I think that it's so absurd it's so absurd we the way we scheduled things it's just been like a really not to be like totally corny but like magical thing for me because it came from such an organic place of like Anna and I so actually if you're thinking about it that way, they've always known I sent you is kind of like full circle it's started on voice notes like it really this whole thing started with us getting to know each other that way and like really understanding each other and, and it's it was it came at a really important time for me and I'm just really grateful for you and really grateful for the space and that people have responded to it but more just like it's taught me so much about myself and I feel like forever indebted to it in that way like Have you it's been, I don't think I would have arrived here without it, you know. So I'm just really feel grateful and I'm happy to go out in this way, which was my intention to, for it to still feel good. And I think that can happen.

Yeah. I think in order for that to happen I don't know, I think you got to just be honest, you know, I think it's having the courage to say, I don't think this is where my energy is anymore. You know? So, um, for anyone else, if you're feeling kind of like, I think sometimes the hardest situations are ones that aren't aren't bad. They're just right. I think that, I don't know. I mean, how many dudes I was like, Oh, my God, just fucking cheat on me. So it's just like, so clear and easy for me to break up with you. Yes, that's what I talk about in therapy every week. Um, but I think it can be really hard when there's not an overt or it's not bad. I think we want things to be good or bad. And I think sometimes when somebody's just not a fit or not, right is the hardest thing for us to say affirm. Known to, you know, like, that's,

it feels like I'm making a very authentic choice. And that feels good. That feels good. Yeah, you know, it does. And I, and I hope to, I have to be a guest one day, but I will be in support, no matter what. So thanks, guys, for hanging out with me for the last year and I'll see you I'll talk to you soon in some place in some way in some planet.

Yeah, I mean, you can find Nina where you've been able to find her in the really my she's not really? Yeah, her website. She's not really on Instagram, but you know, nothing like nothing has really changed. It's not like just just here. You know, just yeah, we so

thank you. And I look forward to seeing what what it's going to become. Ciao for

now. My

that's all for today's episode.

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