Episode 341 of the pilot the Pilot Podcast takes off.

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So my name is Thomas and I am a 737 driver for work and when I'm not flying, I own Hangar 22 Coffee Roasters and have been doing that for the last, oh boy, almost five years now.

I've been running a coffee business along with flying airplanes which has been a lot of fun.

AV Nation, what is going on?

And welcome back to the Pilot the Pilot Podcast.

My name is Justin Seams and I am your host.

Today's episode is with Thomas from Hanger 22 Coffee.

Now you might be thinking, Justin, don't you have a coffee company?

Why are you promoting another coffee company?

Well, Thomas is a great dude.

We also haven't sold Pilot's coffee in a little bit.

We need to bring it back.

We're gonna bring it back eventually, I promise.

But I'm a big fan of Thomas.

I'm a big fan of Hangar 22 Coffee Roasters.

Met him at Oshkosh.

I, I bombarded him and was like, hey, you're the enemy.

And he's like the typical Canadian answer.

Just like, oh, there's room for both of us.

We love pilots coffee.

I was like, oh, okay, well you guys are pretty cool.

Let's do a podcast.

So I, I love the conversation.

He is actually in Atlanta commuting to Canada to fly for Canadian Airline with hopes to eventually make it to an American airline down here and fly 121 in the US AV nation.

I hope you enjoy this podcast.

It was A great one.

Check out Hangar 22 Coffee.

Make sure you leave a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and also follow on YouTube.

We're trying to build the YouTube channel up.

I think we can do it.

So let's do it.

Let's watch.

Let's watch the video podcast on YouTube.

Maybe I'll have to start dropping some cool stuff on there to get you guys over there.

We'll see.

But aviation, I hope you're having a great day.

Hope you're having a big Hangar 22 coffee.

And I hope you're enjoying.

Without any further ado, here's Thomas from Hangar 22 Coffee.

Thomas, what's going on, man?

Welcome to the Pilot.

The Pilot podcast.

Hey, Justin, thanks so much for having me here.

It's kind of wild.

It's.

You know, for so long I've been listening to you while I go to the airport, and now here I am on your podcast.

It's kind of wild.

Thanks for having me.

Even though we are.

We're not.

I mean, I haven't really done coffee that much in a while, but even though we both have coffee companies, it is cool to see you just continue to kill it, man.

I mean, what you've been able to do, what you've been able to build and just being at Oshkosh and being partnering with Textron and having the ability to have good coffee, because we both know the coffee, the caffeine options at EAA Airventure were historically terrible.

So thank you so much for providing good coffee for everyone to have and keeping everyone caffeinated, because a lot of people need it after the SOS tent the next night.

Or that night.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And you know, I've decided to sacrifice my time at the SOS tent every night so that I can make sure that everyone who shows up the next morning has coffee to supply them throughout the morning.

Especially during the really long, hot days at Airventure.

Yeah, it's.

It's a must, man.

And there, there's always a line there.

I feel like I went there either at 6 or not 6am I was never there at 6am, but early.

And then when you go there later, you know, they're still got a lot of people waiting for some coffee.

So.

Dude, it's awesome.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

That's.

It's honestly a really huge treat.

So I, I can't complain.

But we all know whose coffee is better though, let's be honest.

I mean, I have to go with yours because I haven't really sold coffee In a while.

So technically there is no pilot's coffee right now.

It's waiting to, it's in, it's in the closet probably actually right behind me.

I think I have like a box of like 500 packets.

Right.

Well, maybe this is an opportunity for, you know, a pilot's coffee with Hangar 22 collaboration.

I don't mind roasting extra.

I can't complain.

I mean, I don't have a roaster, so maybe we'll talk about it.

But we are here to talk about coffee and we're here to talk about you.

So I kind of want to focus a little bit on you, the pilot itself.

So tell me, why, why did you become a pilot in the first place?

Great question.

I, I got into aviation pretty young.

I, I kind of knew I wanted to be a pilot since I was four.

Actually.

I've always been into machinery, Large, you know, I don't know, large vehicles and machinery.

Just growing up.

So, you know, whether it be a fire truck or a dump truck or a crane, construction equipment, whatever, I've always just been interested in operating equipment, like big things.

And when I was, When I was 4, I flew on a 767.

Once I did that and I realized like, this building has wings and it flies and there's people who do it.

I was sold.

And that, that pretty much, you know, gave me the spark I needed to get interested in aviation.

I, from that point onwards I, I, I knew what I wanted to do.

I've been very fortunate and very lucky that I knew what I wanted to do at a young age.

And then, you know, once I was in high school, I got my class one medical, made sure I was fit to fly and then started taking flying lessons from there and that kind of took off.

Yeah.

So you, so you had to wait all the way to high school to start getting your ratings?

I know in the United States you're Canadian based, but solo at 16 or.

No, you can solo 16, get your private at 17.

Is it similar in Canada?

In Canada you can solo at 14 and then 16 to get like a, like a recreational license, but 17 to get your private.

So I started flight training.

I was 15 and then solo when I was 16, got my private when I was 17.

So that's what I ended up.

That was like the path that I took.

And then once I finished that, I went to like the equivalent of a one like what you guys would call 141 program.

So I did the equivalent of a 141 program in Canada and It was really accelerated program where I was able to finish everything in 18 months, which was wild.

But then from that point onwards I was in Canada.

We don't have the 1500 hour rule, so I was slated to go into a regional airline in Canada.

However, I graduated in March of 2020, which was not the best time in the world for pilot jobs.

And that ended up leading me to working actually at a bunch of coffee shops.

Cause like if I'm not flying, the other thing that I know how to do is coffee.

So I was barista at a bunch of different local shops in Toronto and then I ended up becoming an apprentice aircraft mechanic.

That kind of led me to starting the business and eventually coming back to Toronto from I was originally.

Well, I ended up going to Collingwood when I was an apprentice aircraft mechanic, came back to Toronto, ended up shoveling snow at the airport to get closer to my aviation networks and connections and, and then from shoveling snow I ended up becoming a concierge at one of our local FBOs which led me to getting a job on a G150 and then that kind of, you know, accelerated my career forward and now I eventually end up becoming an airline pilot, which has been a lot of fun.

So no complaints.

Let's talk about the mentality of you're graduating, you know, March 2020, you think your career is about to take off.

You know, I got all my ratings, I don't need 1500 hours.

Just like the other states, people in the states do.

Like I'm going to a regional, I'm going to do this, I'm going to be an airline pilot.

This is what I train for.

And then a sudden, right, you get blindsided.

Covid comes kind of resets everything.

The industry looks like it's just going down the tank, right?

Like talk about the mentality of that.

How did that affect you?

Did you think it was just never going to happen?

You're like, well I guess I'm part of the new lost generation or kind of just talk about what you're going through.

No, actually like I, I was really at peace with it because I came into this industry.

Like I, I knew the cyclical nature of it and there was a, one of the, at that time, director of flight operations for Porter Airlines.

He, he came to one of our graduations back when I was in high school.

I took on my private one, got my certificate and it was a big banquet with college students and a bunch of self paced students taking every pathway to get their licenses.

And he read this article And I'll never forget this.

I was like 17 years old.

I was quickly humbled.

And it was an article saying, like, oh, Canada and the United States are going to need 10, 15,000 pilots in like the next two years and the shortage is crazy.

And everyone was cheering and high fiving each other because like, yeah, we graduated.

Here we are, we're going to make it.

And then he goes all the way to the bottom.

He goes to the bottom of the article and actually reads the date.

And the date said September 10, 2001.

And I've never seen the room get so quiet so quickly because people like, know the suffering that happened after that.

And it, you know, it could be great today, but tomorrow we could, you know, everyone's going to be furloughed.

You don't know.

And so it'll happen.

Like you're going to have bad moments and there's going to be, It's a cyclical industry.

But I, I knew that going into it.

I, I always, I know things can get worse.

And at the end of the day, the fact that I was already, at that time, I was 19, about to go into a regional airline like, okay, relax, there's, there was guys flying checks like 15 years ago, having to build thousands of hours before they get on a classic dash and make absolutely no money, sleep in a lounge, there's a lot worse out there.

So just because I had to take a hiatus from aviation, so to speak, for like a year or two, not that big of a deal.

And I think that the recovery happened not only a lot faster, but the post Covid era for those two years after those early retirements happened, there was just so much growth.

There was absolutely no way upon my graduation that I would think I'd be flying a 737 when I turned 23.

That was just absolutely unthinkable.

And then it happened, and then it just happened.

So it's like, yeah, you might come out of graduation, be like, this sucks, but then all of a sudden, like two years down the road and something way bigger and better happens.

So you don't, you don't know where life is going to take you.

And I think that just because something doesn't work out doesn't mean you have to be, you know, upset about it.

Because I fly with a lot of guys who have gone through two or three furloughs at so many different airlines.

They've gone through from one merger to the other merger to the other merger.

And that's a lot to deal with.

So, you know, I'm pretty lucky.

Where I, where I am, that's, that's essentially it.

So graduating with everything, literally furloughs and no one hiring, it's okay.

It's not the end of the world.

We will be patient.

What?

In that time, I just tried to do whatever I could do to get that first job.

Like eventually leading me to shoveling snow at Toronto Pearson in order to get closer to the FBOs, in order to get the connections to get my first job.

Because I knew I was probably going to get into corporate before I got into the airlines, simply because I knew that there was at least some movement going on, there was some hiring going on.

Yeah.

And I travel.

Shoveling snow just led me to getting that next job.

Right.

So you got to do what you got to do.

You got to do what you got to do.

And two things on that is I love the mentality about it because, I mean, I like to ask the older pilots that I fly with, it's like, you know, what do you think about the newer generation?

It's like, well, I mean, they're all, most of them are good pilots.

Uh, they can fly really well.

It's like.

But they just don't understand kind of what we all went through.

20, even like September 11th or, or way back in the day.

It's like how mergers from, from not making any money, sleeping on benches, people brushing their teeth in the airport, truly getting paid minimum wage.

And now you have.

I'm not calling you out, I'm just using an example.

But like a 23 year old coming in flying a 737 and they're like, what?

The actual f. Like that never happened 10, 15, 20 years ago.

So you are really like doing fantastic in your career, going all the way up to 65. Who knows if 67 comes on?

I mean, that's a very, very long career in aviation, flying airplanes.

So when you look at that little hiatus you had to take at 19 when you had to wait a year and a half, I think it's worth it, Right.

Like, I think in the grand scheme of things, you're gonna be like, oh, I had a pretty good career.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, honestly, it was.

It's a non event almost.

So.

Yeah.

Well, I don't want to minimize it because it is an event, right?

Like, it is like you get sold expectations, you get sold sold many, many things in this career.

You're going to be.

When you go to the hiring and they're hiring like crazy, they're going to make promises, they're going to be like, all right, you're going to upgrade in two years, you're going to make this much money in 10 years, you're going to be on a 787, flying wide body to wherever you want.

And then 10 years comes down the road, and you're still on short call reserve on a base that you don't want to be at.

It's just how the airlines work.

And you really.

Which is why I always argue.

No, keep going.

Yeah.

Which is why, like, I.

Sorry for interrupting.

It's why I always argue, like, you have to be in this industry.

Like, if you love flying, if you genuinely love what you do, then you should go here.

Because it's gonna suck.

Like, sometimes it's gonna really suck.

Like, I can't.

I'm not trying to paint it or discourage people from entering aviation, but there are really hard days, there's hard years, there's, like, there's hard times, for sure.

But I find that so many people, I meet a lot of them at work who are, like, surprised they're not in a legacy of right at 1500 hours.

And I'm like, well, buddy, you're right.

At 1500 hours, it's okay.

You got to be a little bit patient, and you got to work towards it and just be happy you're already flying a narrow body.

Like, that's just unheard of 10, 15 years ago.

And it's not to minimize, you know, the pandemic.

It was really hard for everybody.

I was.

I barely was able to afford to put food on the table for my wife and I, but we.

We made it work.

And shortly thereafter, like, you know, there was a.

There was a light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.

And unfortunately, this is just the industry we're in.

Right?

Like, we.

It could be wor, is what I always say.

Like, I meet the folks who got gray hair by the time they were 30 because they went through their second furlough 9, 11 SARS, 2008.

Like, there's so many things that can go wrong, and I do think it could be worse at the end of the day, at least if you're, you know, right now, the biggest benefit, especially in the states that you guys have, is if you're stuck in a regional, sitting in the right seat, feeling like you're going nowhere, at least the pay isn't awful.

Like what it was if you were in that position 10, 15 years ago.

It's, It's.

It was a lot harder back then to make, you know, 1720,000 in a year to fly for a regional.

Absolutely.

And flying crazy hours too.

Like truly working minimum wage when you kind of add in like how often you're working your duty days.

And based on what you're bringing home, I mean, you don't have to get too into this because I don't know where you are in probation or where you stand with the airline and all that, but there is quite the difference in pay between the United States pilots and Canadian pilots, right?

Oh yeah, absolutely.

I'm like, I, I don't know.

Everyone has their own opinions on the 1500 hour rule from someone coming from the outside into the US I'm a huge supporter of the 1500 hour rule primarily for the wage increases that it has caused.

We don't have anything like that in Canada.

Yeah, you can fly a regional jet or an airliner at a young age earlier on in your career, but at the end of the day, like, no, I'm happy to be patient and wait and make the earnings for the last 30 years of my career happily.

And I would never be upset by it.

Everyone has their own opinions on the 1500 hour rule and safety is a whole other conversation to have.

But when it comes to pay, it was a huge benefit.

I'm a big supporter of it down here.

I live here now and eventually I will be separating from my airline, going on to another U.S. airline.

And yeah, it's the same airplane, same flying, but you get paid way more here.

So it's fantastic industry to be in here.

Do you think it's just because of the 1500 hour rule or is it actual profits or is it, I mean, kind of, I guess.

What do most Canadian pilots think about the pay?

I don't know because like we in Canada at least Canadians I find feel a lot or they feel this way.

Yeah, like we were not as big of airlines.

We don't make as much profit.

But at least from top down, from all the way from the CEO all the way down to your chief pilots, I argue that most of them get paid the equivalent of what our American counterparts get paid.

It happens quite often.

But we as line pilots are not seeing the same kind of gains.

And I also feel that in, and the mentality here, especially exacerbated by the shortage, is people want a good contract.

There's been so many, there's so much, so many post bankruptcy contracts that were negotiated that eventually American pilots from whether you're, you know, part of, you know, the Allied Pilots Association, Alpa or whichever carrier part of everyone wanted to get out of that post bankruptcy contract, I guess mindset.

And there's huge gains that are being made and US Airlines have pretty much, we can all comfortably say that US Airlines have recovered from those contracts like from the pilots group perspective and they've gone, they've made gains beyond that.

Quality of life has absolutely become amazing at most legacy carriers.

Pay has been great as well.

Huge improvements all in all areas of every contract.

It's great.

Your dream is to want to work for one of these companies and, and you're going to have a fantastic comfortable life for, for a very long time.

We have not seen like in terms of the amount of money lost in post bankruptcy contracts in Canada, we have not seen that money come back.

Like we still in terms of value for every contract, even in the most recent one with Air Canada, not every single thing has come back.

Even though the airlines will be making billions in revenue and still surpassing the, or approaching surpassing the $1 billion mark in profit.

So there, there should be some more gains.

There's not here pilots are really, really advocating for better quality of life.

They want the pay raise.

They want, you know, to be appreciated.

I think especially down here, the suffering from post 911 run 2008 area, SARS, whatnot, there was so much suffering and sleeping in too many lounges.

You can see the gains in the contracts like even some of these regional stuff like be paying for your hotels while you commute like that.

I mean that's a sign that they don't want to have any more pilots sleeping in crew lounges prior to flying being fatigued.

It's really, it's huge gains.

All across the network there's been huge gains, but there's been a push for it like top down there's been a huge push towards this and you know, it's great to hear CEOs whether it be, you know, Bastian or Kirby going on the news and, and advocating for their pilots and really showing a sense of pride I guess towards their airline, their company.

And as much as there is always going to be tension between management and airline pilots, I find that there's a lot more unity here in the states than there is north of the border.

And I do think that that helps or that is reflected in the gains that you guys have here in contracts.

And the 1500 hour role is a huge part of it because at the end of the day everyone who finishes flight school, even if you're going to get paid no money, if you're at 250 hours, you're going to go, want to fly an Embraer and fly a bunch of people around and actually go from Toronto to Dallas and have a nice layover and come back or fly four legs a day.

You won't care because it's going to be better than instructing till 1500 hours, making no money and then trying to get into a regional.

But the airlines in Canada can take advantage of that and say, okay, well if you want to come right out of flight school school and you're desperate to pay off some of that student debt, we're not going to pay you much and people will take the care 10 out of 10 times I would do the same.

Like, I can't blame them.

I did instruct him for a little bit as well.

And as much as it was a lot of fun, airline flying is completely different.

It's very sophisticated.

It's really enjoyable.

I love the job so much.

There's nothing I would ever do.

I don't care how Big Hangar 22 explodes or Vice versa.

I, I keep both of them, but I'd always keep the airline flying.

I love it.

It's, it's not, it's just fun.

When I go to work, it's always.

Would you say a lot of pilots in Canada you're speaking for.

All Canada are here, all Canadian pilots.

But would you say it's common, Would you say it's common for, for pilots for either account, air Canada, Rouge, WestJet, whatever it may be to, to look at the, the airlines down in the States and be like, all right, I'm going to try my hardest to get a job there.

Or is it kind of like we want to fight, we want to have a comparative pay contract what they have at American, at United, at Delta, Southwest.

So to get a work permit of any kind south of the border for an airline pilot has historically been a huge challenge for pilots.

However, other been a lot more success stories post the pandemic.

I would say I don't know a quarter of the experienced pilots and I mean like you know, 5,000 plus hour, 10,000 plus hour.

Most of them are captains.

They apply for different kinds of various visas.

Some of them like even I think when Atlas was sponsoring one of my colleagues, she ended up going to, she, she had an Australian passport.

So she ended up getting into Atlas via that route and is there now.

But everyone desperately is would love to come to the States.

A lot of people want to fight for better contracts.

Don't get me wrong.

You can see it in the divided votes when, when these big airlines when they vote on their tentative agreements here in the US when you see, you know, United or Delta vote on their contracts, it's pretty unified where everyone stands.

In Canada, a lot of people are divided for various reasons, but that division leads to, I'd say 30 to 40% of pilots eagerly trying go south of the border to get jobs here, like, quite a bit, I would say.

But that applies almost to the rest of the world because I'm sure in Europe and in other parts of Asia, people would love to come to the United States in order to fly.

It's, it's truly like the, the industry that's been crafted here is, is incredible.

Yeah.

And it's the only place where I would argue it's done right, completely top to bottom.

It's fantastic here.

It's funny you would, you would talk to a senior captain at American or Delta, they're like, oh, it sucks.

Like, it's not the glory days.

You know, you're from Canada, you're looking in, you're like, oh, my gosh, I just want in, please.

I want it.

It's just funny what can change and how you can be hardened toward an industry over contracts, over 9, 11, over 2008, over all the things that have happened.

Yeah.

And I think it's important to try not to get jaded by those people because there's so many who are negative, and no matter how much money is thrown at them, no matter how great their life is, they're.

They're still going to be upset.

They're are always going to be upset.

So I, I mean, I try not to get jaded or get upset with those guys because they exist at my company that exists at every airline forever, it won't matter.

There's always going to be something.

And, you know, it's not the glory days for sure.

And I'm sure I'm going to feel the same way.

Maybe in 20 years I'll be like, well, it was so much better when I was this age flying the 7 3.

It's like, yeah, maybe, but you know, it.

The only thing in life that's guaranteed is change.

So, you know, I just try to make it or try to advocate for a positive change and ride the wave, I guess, and enjoy life.

So what's your path look like to get a job at an airline in the States?

Do you have to count on a work visa or what's your strategy?

So I'm a permanent resident here in the States.

I actually commute from Atlanta to Toronto right now to stay at My job for the time being, I had a bunch of regional interviews, but long story short is through various meet and greets with other legacy airlines I, I ended up finding out that everyone was like, okay, calm down, you don't have to immediately jump to a regional.

Start at the bottom, you're flying a 7 3.

It's okay.

Like it's either keep building your time right now, if you need better quality of life and live domestic in the States and not have to commute to another country, by all means, that sounds great, find the job that works for you.

But you don't necessarily need to rush to like a regional airline to sit on reserve then to just, you know, slowly you get a hold of line where you're doing five legs in a day, which I was willing to sacrifice.

If I didn't get to do that, I was like, let's do it.

That's okay.

I'll go from the seven three to the crj.

Here we go.

But I, I was pretty much advised against that so I, I decided not to go down that path.

And so I, I, we'll see where I end up being right now.

I still don't think I'll, well, at least I'm not like, like I'd love to go to legacy right away if I could, but I'm not expecting a phone call for a while from them.

I just, you know, I know, I understand things have slowed down and anyone can get there, but I'm not like, I'm not planning on it is what I could say because I know guys who are still like 2000 hours getting interviews with legacies and I know guys, 5000 hours, they're like, you know, they're ACPs at certain airlines and they're still struggling or they're, they're being turned down.

And so it's, who knows who's going to be called and who's going to get the job.

And so I just keep my head down, keep doing my flying, try to build my application, keep doing my resume building in the meantime commute to a whole other country to keep flying.

So, but we'll see.

I think within six months I'll probably be at another airline here in the States, I think.

So Atlanta is quite the move from Canada.

Right.

There are closer cities, big cities to where you live probably.

What was the reason behind.

Yeah, so my, all of my in laws are here and we have a 14 month old at home and then we have another, we have a baby boy who's on the way in October.

So it's it was quite important that if I'm gonna do the commuting, I want to.

I want to be somewhere where at least when I'm gone for my couple days of work, I. I have family or in laws that can come and take care of.

Of our little kiddos.

So that's why we ended up deciding to come.

We decided that Atlanta was going to be home for now.

And it's easy access because like, I, I can go on to Atlanta and fly Air Canada or I can fly Delta or whoever up to Toronto.

It's not that big of a deal.

Usually, like, I've only had one day where I couldn't commute.

I only had one day where I just.

Nothing was working out.

It's stressful, it's hard.

But most of the time I'm lucky enough to get a seat, I'm like, okay, great, I'm going to work.

So it hasn't been too bad yet.

That's good.

So, and I, at the end of the day, I know it's temporary.

If I get to an airline and they send me over to Seattle or Minneapolis, wherever, you know what, we'll pack our bags, we'll move.

I don't plan on commuting once I get to an airline south of the border.

This is just a temporary solution.

Yeah.

What are you able to do, cast?

Are you able to jump seat being a.

Flying for a different airline in a different country?

Okay, so that makes commuting even more difficult.

Yes.

So the way it works is they'll list you as a jump seater, but they'll transfer you from the jump seat list to the standby list.

And so, so you'll just be moved over standby list, which does make it a lot harder.

So if there's no seats in the back available, there's no way I can make it work now.

Like, I can sometimes make it work by taking a flight from, let's say Atlanta to Montreal, and then if I.

If that's the only seat in the back available, and then Montreal, I can jump seat domestically in Canada from.

From there to Toronto on any flight I felt like, because I can do a domestic flight within Canada, but I can't do anything in the US and most airlines, even if I was part of casual, at least most airlines, if you're going across the border and you're not working for that airline, you can't sit in the jump seat.

At least in Canada.

Most of our airlines are like that.

So there's.

It almost still be redundant and impossible.

The only solution to not dealing with.

My nightmare is to get a job south of the border.

And then, and then if I was to commute, at least the commute's a lot more manageable.

What do the people, the captains you fly with, what do they say when you're like, oh, hey, man, what's.

What's up, Thomas, Welcome.

Like, what are you, Where'd you come in from?

And you're like, actually, I live in Atlanta.

Are they like, what?

Or is that kind of common, everyone?

Yeah, yeah, it's like, you know, there's easy ways to do this.

Yeah, I know.

But it's what you got to do for your family and for your career.

And like, at the end of the day, we already knew we had to move.

So it was like I could have, you know, I, I could have driven from Buffalo in, into Canada and went to Toronto and it would have been way shorter than what I do right now.

But then, then my wife would be alone for like five, six, seven days at a time.

And that sucks.

And you know, at the end of the day, I just, it was just easier for her family to be there.

I pay less taxes by living down here as well.

And so it's just, you know, in general, life has gotten better, especially when I'm home.

Life is great right now, but at the end of the day, we also know it's temporary.

Like, it's not gonna.

This isn't a forever.

I'm gonna be commuting to Canada for the rest of my life because if that was the case, we'd just be living there.

But this temporary band aid solution, just to do the commute.

And then again, in less than a year after the move, I'll already hopefully be working for another carrier in the US and so at that point, that's not that bad.

If I have to do this for this time in my life, then forever onwards, I'll be living where I'm based.

Perfect.

It's not the end of the world.

Let's take a break from today's podcast to hear from our sponsor, raa.

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How hard has it been for you?

I mean I know your wife has a support system there, but it's still hard when you know the person you marry is not at work.

You got a young kid.

But talk about the struggle goals with the commute.

Has it been more difficult than you thought?

And I'm think I'm speaking more, not necessarily like actually getting on the flight, but just like mentally leaving either a day early or the night before.

You know, you're missing extra time with your kids, with your family.

How has that been for you mentally?

Has it been pretty tough or is it just like you said, you just had the mentality.

It's like all right, we're doing this for the family.

It's going to be better in, in a few years.

We're going to make sure that we're going to have a life that we want to live that's just unfortunately part of what we have to do do.

Yeah, I, I would say it's definitely, I don't know if it's harder than I thought it was going to be, but it is, it's definitely fatiguing like over time especially like at my company we're, we're a budget airline so we're, we're flying a lot like we are.

We, we keep a thin pilot group or we keep everything, everything's lean.

And so we don't have, have, we don't staff as many crews for every airplane.

And so we're always flying like we're flying probably I think next month I'm putting on 86 hours which is like, and that's not an hour, that's not duty hours.

It's just 86 hours of straight flying.

So it's a lot of, it's a lot of work.

But and then you add the commute on top of that and for you know, I'm able to hold a decent schedule so it's not terrible.

And I'm usually able to bid for the trips that I want and get, get whatever I feel or Whatever is going to be good for the commuting schedule.

But it is hard because usually on like a four or five day trip, I'm going to lose a day on either end for commuting.

And that's awful.

And when that happens, that always really, really sucks because that's a day I could have been at home.

Like, if you do the math, like I did the math, if I did this for a full year, I'd comfortably lose, I think like 70 days in a year.

70, 75 days in a year just on commute.

That's just me sitting in the back, not getting paid, just for no reason.

I was like, that's just not sustainable.

Like eventually that's gonna, you know, that's gonna catch up to anybody.

And so, I mean, kudos and respect to anybody who commutes for their career.

I don't think I'll be doing that.

Even if I had a fantastic schedule, I don't think I'd ever do it because it just gives me that extra time to not only be home more, but if I wanted to fly or work, I can always pick up.

If it's so hard for me to pick up, you know, whenever there's like 200% pay, like a one day trip, I can't pick it up.

I'm all the way here in Atlanta.

How am I going to get to work right now to go pick up this flight?

So it's unfortunate to miss out on opportunities like that where I can make a lot of money, have, have a good time.

And that it does make it fatiguing.

Especially since, you know, we have a little kid at home, we have another one on the way, and then we're also running this aviation themed coffee business, which is nuts.

To do all of that together is a challenge.

However, I like, I almost.

It sounds weird but like on my resume when I, when I hand it over to a recruiter, I really part of me just wants to put like a one section that says family and be like, this is the sacrifice that my wife, my kids and everyone else has made so that I can get to this point where I can hand you this resume.

Because it's not just about me.

Like all of us are doing this together.

Like that app to every legacy in the United States, every other airline that I've applied for.

Like, that's, that's not just me putting in the work.

That's all of us putting in the work.

Because we know, we know what we can expect once we get there.

So all of us, it's all of us working together in order to make the sacrifices necessary to get to that point.

So.

And, you know, that's just.

That's just the reality of the.

The life we've.

We've chosen.

So, yeah, it's.

It's hard, but it's not forever.

No, it's not.

And it really does take a special person to be married to.

To.

To really kind of hold down the fort while you're gone.

Because, you know, when you.

When you tell someone, like, I'm gonna be a pilot, they think, oh, cool, you're gonna make a lot of money.

We're gonna go travel, we're gonna do all these fun things, but they don't really think about, you know, what the first couple years are like or what it's like being at a regional for 10 years instead of five years.

You know, it's just shortcut or short call reserve when you're living in North Carolina and you got to go to New York, which I.

It's.

That's my commute.

It's not terrible.

I've gotten used to it.

It's gotten better now that I have a line and I can drop stuff.

I think last month I. I'm not gonna make a ton of money, but I only flew, like, 45 hours, so I was able to drop stuff and only flew two trips, which is nice, but I was able to do this, but it would be with my kids, be able to be at home.

But it really takes someone that's super strong, that understands, that can be independent, and it's a hard person.

Being a pilot or being married to a pilot is very difficult.

It's not easy.

So kudos to your wife.

Kudos to anyone that's married to a pilot.

It is a toug.

We see you.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

It's, it's.

It is really tough.

And I'm so appreciative of having her and her patience with all of this, because this is.

It's hard on everybody.

But, you know, we're.

We're all sacrificed.

We're all making this.

This work right now, and eventually it's going to pay off.

It's just.

It's hard work on everyone's part.

And, yeah, that.

That always ends up paying off.

Always does.

Yeah.

Put the time in.

It's going to pay off.

Off.

I want to kind of circle back to Hangar 22 and something you mentioned, you know, you were.

You were finishing flight school, no jobs.

And you said that you're just working at coffee shops.

You're just kind of Kind of doing your own thing, right?

You're just trying to make ends meet.

You're trying to figure out how you're going to go ahead and provide what you're going to do for career.

But was hanger 22 coffee kind of always in the back of your mind was this something like, I'm going to start a coffee business.

Sounded like you're in coffee for a while.

Sounded like you, your baristas, you knew the world, you knew the business, you knew how to have a, it was going to work.

But was this kind of something you, you always wanted to do or is it kind of fast tracked by just the point that, you know, I mean, I need some money, let's start a company and I know coffee.

Yeah, no, great question.

I, I always was interested in having a coffee business that was always something I want to do because in aviation I think, I think it's important, especially since, you know, we talked about it being a cyclical industry.

I think it's important to have something else, whether it's to fall back on or you never know whether it's, the industry's going to take a downturn or you're going to lose your medical or who knows what.

So I think it's always just important to have something else going.

And I love coffee, I've always loved coffee.

And in high school I was roasting coffee to save money away so I don't have to buy specialty coffee.

And that's how I got into it.

I, I, I literally just couldn't afford to buy any more specialty coffee.

So I was like, I'm just going to save money by roasting it and it's going to cut my cost in half.

And it did.

And I was like, this is great, I can get, I can drink so much more coffee.

Not that I need any more, but I really wanted to get into it.

And yeah, from that point onwards, I always, in the back of my mind knew I wanted to do something like that because I already was roasting coffee for friends and family, always brewing coffee in the basement of the airport and everyone knew I was there making coffee for everybody.

And yeah, during the pandemic, it was this kind of golden opportunity where for a year and a half, two years, like nothing was happening.

And when I was working as an apprentice aircraft mechanic before and after my shifts, the owners were really gracious enough to let me roast coffee in the hangar.

Eventually this led to people starting to come for cups of coffee, then bags of coffee, which eventually turned, you know, a little tip jar Then a cash box, and eventually it, like, kind of took off, and I. I knew I had to do something with it.

It was now or never.

Because you have this opportunity.

You're not flying.

You're not doing anything.

And because I was roasting in Hangar 22 at the local airport, I decided to call it Hangar 22 Coffee Roasters.

From there, the name kind of stuck.

That's it.

So, yeah, but then it was.

You know, it was humble beginnings now, where we're a lot busier.

I'd say most of my days off, when I'm not flying, I'm just roasting coffee, bagging coffee, shipping, talking to clients, making other things where, like, for.

It's.

It's usually that's what ends up occupying my time.

So I dream of the day when I don't have to fly as much because I'll be working for an airline that I want to hang my hat at, and then I'll be like, okay, this is great.

I can maybe fly 60 hours this month and focus on my business instead of flying 90 hours and then struggling to juggle everything at once.

So it'll be a nice time.

But, yeah, I can relate to the shipping, the coffee part.

I remember the first.

So I was working at my last job when I started pilots coffee.

And I remember when I announced it, I got a decent amount of orders, and I was really excited.

But then, like, when I came home, I was like, okay, I have to ship all these orders.

And it is.

I mean, it's a blessing to have orders.

It's a blessing to be able to ship stuff, but holy smokes, I never want to touch a cardboard box ever again in my life or tape anything or.

It's like, goodness gracious.

It is painful to do that.

So are you guys still shipping everything on your own?

Yeah, everything is done on our own.

It's just the two of us doing all of it.

I eventually will have.

Have Maybe more people.

But, like, generally speaking, though, it's just the two of us were once making everything happen behind the scenes.

Like, every.

Like, my wife will do all the designing and labeling.

I'll do the bagging, shipping, roasting, all that stuff.

So it's like she.

Like, she and I literally are pretty much running, like, 50% of the operation on each end and just trying to make it all work together.

And it's.

It's a lot of coordination, but we do make it work.

Yeah, I can't come up, but it is hard.

There's too many cardboard boxes l. Around.

I can.

I can 100% relate to that?

Yeah, it's crazy when.

So I really think it's interesting when you're like, oh, they just let me roast coffee in the hanger.

Because I mean, you and I know that roasting can be, you can spend a ton of money in roasting equipment, but like, what is that you were talking about saving money because you can't buy specialty coffee.

So were you just roasting in a pan?

Like, were you just roasting like on a stove top or what?

What did roast, roasting mean when you're doing that?

So, yeah, so when I got into roasting, I.

Because as you know, roasting is really expensive even for an at home roaster.

It's like probably, I don't know, three, four hundred dollars a day.

It's like, that's a lot of money.

And When I was 15, I got into this, I was like, there's no way I'm, I'm gonna afford this.

But looking and researching roasters and kind of getting into different kinds, I.

One of the more affordable versions that I was interested in, a fluid bed roaster, which uses hot air as I guess, the fluid.

And essentially we'll take the coffee beans and it'll push them aloft and when they're in the air, the air is heated.

And that heated air essentially roasts the coffee, which is the exact same concept that a popcorn popper has.

And instead of popcorn kernels, you can use coffee beans.

And so I ended up going and spending $20 at my local Walmart, Walmart in Canada.

And I spent 20 bucks on this popcorn popper, put coffee beans in it, and from there it just, it worked.

It worked great.

And that's what got me initially started in roasting.

And I did that for years.

It was awesome.

You can put a thermometer in there, like a thermocouple in there, measure, you can chart out your rate of rise inside the popcorn popper.

Unfortunately, it's really hard to change the actual loft or the, the heat setting on the coil.

So you eventually are going to have to upgrade.

But for 15 year old me, it was revolutionary and it worked great.

And so I was able to at least get some coffee roasted from there.

And then eventually, when, especially once Hangar 22, we knew, or I knew it was going to become a thing, got a commercial roaster.

Like the same concept of fluid bed roaster, but just much bigger and much more expensive.

Yeah, I was going to say, you're.

Still using the popcorn machine.

Oh, no.

Oh, man.

If I, if we did if we actually had to, like, if I had to guess how long it would take me to roast everything for Oshkosh on that little thing it pro, I would probably be still roasting like 10 months later, like 12 hours a day.

It was just.

It was never gonna happen.

It was just.

It was great to do like 100 gram batches at a time, and that's about it.

But we've long retired to that fleet, and now we moved on, but now we're using a six kilo drum roaster from Mill City.

And so that's been a lot of fun working with that, and I've really, really enjoyed using it.

Much, much bigger roaster, and there's a lot more output, but it's not like it's big enough for us to get the wholesale product out in a reasonable amount of time for Airventure.

But it's not so big where it's like a 30 kilo roaster where I could not, not, you know, I would get Oshkosh done in a couple days.

Great.

But I couldn't, like, for a reasonable amount of orders, I would never be able to go use it because it just makes no sense to turn over, like 50 pounds of coffee per batch.

That's just way too much.

So it's a perfect size for us for now.

And, yeah, that's essentially what we're doing.

Yeah.

Dang, man.

I just like.

So my love of coffee comes from my wife.

I mean, I didn't drink coffee till after college.

Pretty much when I started flying, I was like, dang, I'm actually tired.

I need some coffee.

So start drinking coffee.

She got me addicted to all the sugary drinks.

Then I slowly realized that I just like black coffee.

And when I was flying to my previous job, you know, there's a lot of early days, there's a lot of late nights.

There's just a lot of flying.

You're drinking a lot of coffee.

And I was like, this coffee sucks.

All the coffee and fbos.

I don't want to say all that's not good or a good thing to say, but most of the coffee was just so bad.

So I was like, there needs to be a better option.

And.

And that's when kind of pilots coffee.

And it also came.

I was doing the podcast.

I didn't have sponsors in.

I was like, all right, how can I make any money off this?

And decided to start my own coffee brand, which is Pilots Coffee.

And I also recommend, if anyone starts their own coffee company, try to get the trademark first.

Because then it becomes a little bit more of an issue down the road.

So if Pilots coffee does come back, it will probably be a name change coming there thanks to another Canadian company, which is actually a pretty.

Pretty massive coffee company from what I've learned.

So they just let me do my own thing because they know that I'll probably never get to where they are.

But, um, yeah, it's funny.

Um, anyways, but yeah, so just realized, see what we could do with coffee.

And really was gravitated toward the to go coffee bags.

I wanted something quick, wanted something very easy to take on the road.

Uh, I mean, you've seen Pilot.

I. I mean, at one point I had.

I was like a weight.

I can't remember what it's called, but it was a.

A pressure espresso machine where it was like this little cylinder tube, and you pushed it to create pressure and it created.

You put an espresso pod in there and you make coffee.

Um, so I was trying to think of something that was really quick, that wasn't messy, that wasn't.

Didn't take long to make, and was able to find the steeped B that we had.

And those were great.

As long as you knew how to make it.

I had one buddy who told me that he just put it in.

You're supposed to steep it for five minutes, and he just drank it right away.

And he never let it steep.

He's like, I just thought it was really weak coffee.

I was like, dude, it says it on the bag.

Like, how do you not figure this out?

Come on, man.

So I had to teach him how to do it.

But, yeah, roasting coffee, it's a science.

Like, I know most people are now probably listening, like, they have no idea, but roasting coffee is a foreign language.

It's like learning ifr.

Going from PPL to ifr.

It is.

Is.

It's crazy.

And I. I feel like it's probably pretty easy to messed up a whole roast.

Yeah.

Yeah, it is pretty easy to mess up a whole roast.

But I. I will have to say, like, it's.

Once you get sucked into it, you go down this rabbit hole of just like, there's so many var.

Excuse me.

There's so many variables when it comes to roasting coffee, and that's something that attracts me.

I'm like, this is so cool.

Like, I can.

I can.

I can.

Coffee cause the roast to taste a certain way.

If I do this or if I, you know, if I burn my batch, this is what's gonna happen.

You know, there's there's so many different ways you have, you have these green beans and you might have like three different batches and you can make three completely different profiles that would result in a totally different flavor profile at the end of the day.

And so when you have three different, you know, versions of the exact same coffee, it's.

It's unique and it's great.

It's also beneficial for me because then I can utilize the same, same, you know, coffee and have a completely different.

Like, I can do a limited edition coffee for a particular show and roast it significantly lighter or have a completely different profile and it will taste substantially different than maybe what it did a year ago when I used it or for a certain coffee that we're already making.

So it's nice to have that flexibility in kind of crafting your own, own, you know, your own product.

But once you get into it and you start it, I wouldn't.

It gets complicated.

But if you, if you try your best not to make it overly complicated, it's.

It's not that hard.

I think anyone can learn, like, just like flying, like flying looks very overwhelming.

You.

If you're getting your private and you walk into the flight deck of a 7:3, you're like, this is the most ridiculous, you know, flight deck I've ever seen.

And then look at all the switches are pushing and pulling and doing all these things.

And then the briefings sound complicated.

The whole flying is complicated.

And then you just take it day by day.

You do bit by bit, and next thing you know, like, it all.

It's.

It's the language you speak and it just makes complete sense.

And coffee is like a very version of that.

So it's not, it's definitely complicated.

It can get complicated, but you can, you can make it simple.

And I think anyone can.

Anyone who's interested in roasting coffee should get into it and it's a lot of fun.

So how much better is the coffee that you roast in your very expensive commercial roaster versus the, the popcorn machine?

A thousand times better.

Like a million times better.

Not that, like, that was bad.

Like, it still got the job done.

But here you have control of everything and you get a lot less outliers.

You're.

When you actually have full control over it, it's like you go from like the right brothers to like the 74.

Like, it's a huge difference.

Still flies, but it's the.

It's.

It's a whole different.

It's.

It's a whole lot better.

You have a lot More control.

So the quality is obviously is very much noticeable.

Yeah, um, I just, I enjoy the fact that I can put in a batch.

I have full control over it.

I already know my profiles.

Like I, and the way I do my profiling, I usually chart it and graph it out myself.

Like you can do digital programs which are great, but I try to do it all by myself, by hand.

And then I will end up following that, like that profile.

Like I have a book that has all my printed profiles out.

And then I just, I follow that to a T every time I roast for particular coffees that we regularly use.

That way it's always consistent.

The customer is getting the same product every time they order.

And yeah, it's, but it's, it's just fun.

Like I, I, I now go roasting coffee on my days off and I enjoy it.

Like, it's like, this is exciting.

You turn the machine on, you get it all prepped and ready and it's, it's just a lot of fun.

No, I love it.

Another thing with coffee is beans.

And you being from Canada, living in Atlanta now, now me living in the States, North Carolina, we are not countries that are not known for roasting beans.

So it's not something you're gonna go, you know, a couple miles away and find not roasting beans at, growing beans.

So you're not going to find necessarily beans that you're going to drink from the States.

So how did you go about finding beans?

Was this something that you made relationships with farms or was it reaching out to people that is like, hey, I already have the relationships.

This is where sustainable, you know, we treat people well, all that kind of stuff.

And here are beans that we recommend.

Yeah, I, I actually the way I learned about green coffee beans is like when I was in high school and I wanted to save money on coffee and I got into it and learned about, you know, getting green beans, I, I ended up just going to different coffee shops that roasted their own coffee.

I just called, ask them as a 15 year old, hey, where do you get your beans from?

Who do I buy it from?

And some of these coffee shops sold to me.

But I did learn a lot about who their wholesale suppliers were.

A lot of wholesale suppliers supply both to Canada and the United States.

They supply to both they'll usually like.

Especially on the east coast.

There's a couple different companies that have warehouses in Montreal and in, outside of New Jersey, which is fantastic.

There's, there's a lot of warehouses in the east coast, northeast that have a Lot of coffee stored in warehouses.

And I, that when I started my business, I worked with one of them and I worked with a wholesaler out in Alberta in Canada as well.

They shipped me quite a bit of coffee.

But now down in the States, I actually use the, one of the wholesalers I use in Canada, I still use them.

Nothing has changed.

It's the same product, same coffee.

It's just now they're shipping it to their New Jersey warehouse and then bringing it down to Atlanta for me.

Yeah, and there's like, there's a couple of them, there's a couple of them that have warehouses.

One that has a warehouse in Charlotte and in Jacksonville.

And so we use them as well.

There's just different wholesalers and what they essentially do for us.

Eventually we'd love to get into direct trades with farmers and work with them directly and be able to import the coffee and you know, know the product and you know, have, have a working relationship with them.

But for now, essentially what a lot of coffee shops do in roasteries, they will, they'll bring the beans over to the US have this, the wholesaler will do all the paperwork, make sure everything is, is fine.

From an agricultural perspective, it's not only do they make sure that it's, you know, from a, or from a legal perspective, everything's sound, but also they will cup it, they will roast it, they'll taste test it, they'll send you samples, they'll make sure that you're happy with the product you're gonna buy.

And then from that lot, you'll end up just purchasing however many, you know, 153 pound bags of coffee you'd like.

And then they'll put it on a pallet and then ship it to you.

And you can pick and choose from different countries, different regions, different farms, different programs, whether it's, you know, fair trade or not.

And you can, you can get different certifications.

You just pick and choose, put it on the palette, they ship it to you, that's it.

So it's pretty straightforward.

What's, what's your goal with Hangar 22 Coffee?

Like, what's your wildest dreams, wildest goal for what you're doing and what you're building?

I think for myself, the biggest goal that I have.

Oh, that's a good question.

My biggest goal right now is simply to, well, it's, I guess a life goal.

Get into a legacy airline so I can focus on my, my coffee business just a bit more.

But essentially with Hangar 22, the goal is going to be to open up the first coffee shop.

Where that's going to be, I don't know yet.

We're in talks with a couple different airports.

I don't know where that's going to land, which one we're going to end up selecting.

I do think it's, it's going to be in this.

Well, I would say like North Carolina is probably the furthest north will have it.

It's going to be somewhere in the south.

Why?

Because I want to be at an airport that has ga traffic.

I want to have an airport that if it can get corporate and commercial traffic, great.

But I, I want to open up an airport coffee shop that's like honestly been a huge dream of mine for a very long time.

Because how cool would it be?

Like, you know, I finish work and then I have my days off, I can go and roast a coffee.

You know, my wife and I, this would be our full time thing outside of flying and we just own a coffee roastery where, you know, we, we're serving delicious coffee every single day.

That's what we specialize in.

Everyone can come grab a bite to eat, fly on in, you know, and, and be able to, to fly out.

And I don't know where it's going to be exactly, but that's, that's the long term goal for Hangar 22 is to open up the coffee roastery at an airport.

There's a lot of logistical issues and, and being a federal property or federally regulated property with having a roaster there.

There's a lot of stuff that, that we're trying to work out right now.

But I do think that's essentially the next step.

It's going to be, it's going to be going there.

The only thing that's preventing me from pulling the trigger right now on like 100% just finding airport, picking and choosing is I want to make sure that I know where I'm going to be working for the next, you know, 30, 30, my career, which airline I'll be.

And then from that point, from that point onwards, wherever I land, I, I will then go ahead and pull the trigger on the coffee shop.

But that's essentially the next thing because right now like when I'm not working, it's, it's all hands on deck for the coffee thing.

And then we do, I, I just make sure my vacation and time off is scheduled around shows we're doing center fund, we go to Mbaa, we go to Oshkosh.

Like we're in other air shows in between.

It's all I do when I'm not flying.

And so I don't even have vacation time or anything like that where I'm actually off at all.

And I haven't had that in like two or three years.

And that's okay.

It's.

You gotta.

It's all part of the grind and you gotta make it happen.

But at some point, it'll.

It'll be nice to have a more flexible schedule, to be able to really hone in and focus on the business.

I also wanna select the right airport.

Two years ago, we almost pulled the trigger.

New York on an airport in Wisconsin.

And it was.

It was going to be a great collaboration with another manufacturer and we're really looking forward to it, but I just didn't.

It wasn't feeling right because I knew.

So for six months of the year, no one's going to fly into this general aviation airport.

It's just not going to happen here.

It's going to be so cold and miserable.

How are we going to make the money?

And, you know, everyone between us and the investors were all like, oh, well, the locals are going to come.

And I'm like, no, they're not.

There's so many other coffee shops.

Like, it wasn't like a crowd that was interested in driving 20 minutes to like, like up an interstate and down a county road just to get to the airport just to go have a cup of coffee.

It wasn't.

That wasn't going to happen.

So I was like, you know what?

I don't think it's going to work out.

And at the end of the day that the hangar ended up not being built.

So we were very fortunate not to go down that path.

But I want to make sure that I make this happen at the right airport and do it right the first time.

Talk about the biggest win that you've had with Hangar 22, and then also talk about either the biggest regret or kind of like the biggest, like, bad decision you've made.

We're just like, oh, dang it, that was stupid.

Great question.

My biggest, my best moment, I think that I really enjoy with Hangar Trent 2 or things that I was really happy about was our partnership with both Textron Aviation and with eaa, having them, you know, back us up.

I. I can't thank them enough.

It's been a lot of fun over the last, what, almost five years now, working with them.

We do so many shows with Textron.

We travel with them to so many different shows.

Being able to serve coffee.

They've been nothing but kind to us, we're just very grateful to even be with them.

And they love our product.

We have a really good working relationship with them.

And that was a fantastic thing that ever happened with us.

I was really, really happy when that.

When we kind of trialed it out.

1 Oshkosh, we sold out a coffee by noon every day, and we had to shut down early.

We're like, oh, so this thing's really big.

Like, we just thought a couple people would show up.

And then, like, by noon, we were sold out and we shut down.

And so then I realized, okay, we need to Prep for, like, 10,000 cups of coffee to be turned over.

Like, this is a much bigger, bigger show than we anticipated.

And I mean, I've been to Airventure a bunch of times, but I didn't think that the coffee scene was.

There's this, I guess, gap.

No one wanted to spend insane amounts of money on coffee, and they wanted a good quality coffee, and we were able to provide that for them.

Dude, people want for a very great.

Price of no money.

That is even better.

Yeah, exactly.

And so it's a great way for us, you know, to get that product out there.

We, you know, we're really fortunate with the relationship we have with them to make all that come together and work.

And with eaa, it's great because we.

We've been able to sponsor.

Sponsor them for the last couple of years, providing coffee pretty much exclusively to them for their volunteer kitchen, for their, you know, their lounges.

And we've been able to provide coffee to the Red One market.

It's been a lot of.

A lot of fun being able to have that coffee kind of just spread around the field for that one week and just the months leading up because, like, whether it be for their Christmas parties or, like I said, volunteer kitchen, which starts like back in early spring, all of that, all of those areas where we're able to provide the coffee to them.

It's been awesome.

And in return, they've just been.

They've been very helpful and great at getting our product out there.

So I, I love working with these larger organizations that also are able to support aviation return.

I think that EA has done a lot for the aviation community, so it's great to be working with an organization that I can support and, you know, advocate for.

That would be probably the biggest thing.

Things that I regret.

I think my biggest regret with Hangar 22 is not scaling it sooner.

It's.

I. I think that we spent probably a year or two where we're not that we were stagnant, but we're kind of waiting, like, okay, we're going to move to the States.

Where are we going to end up?

Are we going to go to Atlanta?

The hiring was going crazy.

So then the question.

I was like, will I really get into legacy right away?

Like, what's going to happen?

I don't know.

We.

We were like.

We were so lost.

And so there were so many times, like, about a year and a half ago, we almost pulled the trigger on a large roaster.

We're like, but do we want to pull the trigger and bring it here just to roast and then move it back down and pay to have it moved and shipped back?

I'm like, do we really want to be doing something like this?

So we.

We were like, I don't think this is necessarily the best idea.

So we waited.

Looking back, that's fine.

I just wish.

I wish we knew we were going to end up being down here.

So I would have, you know, pulled the trigger on a larger roaster and started to scale the business a bit better, because I think we would have been a little bit further ahead of the curve.

Like, we didn't start roasting on the new roaster until pretty much, like, a few months before Airventure started, which was, you know, our previous roaster was great, but for Airventure, like, we turned over well over a thousand pounds of coffee for the week.

Like, it was.

It was a lot.

It was a lot of roasting.

And it's a short period of time because you never want to roll roast months in advance because then the product's not fresh.

You want to make it as fresh as possible.

I'd say, like, mo.

The vast majority of the coffee bags that people could take home and use weeks after was roasted within a week of the actual show starting.

So it's.

We try to keep it as fresh as we possibly can.

I just take.

I schedule my vacation time and time off so that I can accommodate all that and then make it happen.

Yeah.

But I do wish that we were to.

I. I think I. I wish that I were to grow the business, especially during a time in my life where I had more time not having our daughter.

Not that she's like, she's the best thing in the world.

Yeah.

But at a time when we didn't have our daughter, at a time when I was flying, When I was flying on corporate, like, man, I flew, I don't know, 250, 300 hours a year, like, I wasn't working.

I was relaxing.

What Are you doing man business?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And now here I'm like, I got to do this, I got to do this, I got to do this.

And, and you know, it's just non stop.

It's been, it's been crazy.

And then on top of that, I'm also volunteering with her, with my airline union as well, has been occupying a lot of my time on top of everything else.

And I'm like, this is wild.

Like, I.

This is why I'm like, so eager to get to the next job where I can just kind of, you know, know, relax.

I'm trying to, you know, be as good of a, as an airline pilot and as a father and a husband as I can, but it is, it's tough to do all of that at once.

Business owner, it's.

It's tough.

It's definitely tough.

Yeah.

Because I mean, something has to take.

I mean, something has to take precedence in the moment, right?

Like you either sacrificing time as being a business owner, you're sacrificing time away from being a father, or you're sacrificing time away from flying and progressing your career.

It's like you can't do everything at once.

So at some point you have to make it a step decision.

And like, all right, this is when I'm hanging out with my family, my daughter.

This is protected time for them.

This is business time.

It might be when your daughter goes to sleep, but at some point you have to make a sacrifice and you have to choose one of the, the three or whatever it may be, how many choices you have.

When you add union stuff, the four, you have to sacrifice something to do that, which is very, very difficult.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

It's definitely, it's difficult.

It's very rewarding at the end.

Like when you, when you serve that last stop at Airventure and you shut the machine off, it's like, wow, it's done.

Like, you're relieved.

But then it's also kind of bittersweet because then you leave and you're like, dang, it's over.

Like, that was a lot of fun.

And it's all over now.

I have to wait a whole year.

But the weeks and months leading up to Airventure is always extremely stressful.

Our planning starts in January for that, so it's always a lot of work.

So we only get a couple months where we get to be off and then we get right from back into it.

And that's okay, though.

Like, this year, I think next year we're gonna be a lot more prepared.

But it would have been nice, like I said, to have the bigger roaster sooner and find a place, you know, that we knew we were gonna move to and just kind of.

And just commit to that and not have to worry.

But we just did not know what was gonna happen.

Like, even with the, with, with hiring and the forecasts of hiring in the states, like, everything's up and down.

Every month is different.

Like one month you'll have recruiters like, no, no, no, you.

You need a thousand hours pic.

We won't concern you.

And then they're like, oh, no, actually, next year, we're apparently going to hire 2,000 pilots.

We need you get your applications in.

You're like, what?

So everything is all constantly changing.

And that clouded our decision making as well for the business for a little bit.

So now that everything's kind of settled down, we know the path forward.

And right now it is time to start scoping out which airports we're going to be working, working with, where we're going to have that airport, coffee shop, and roastery.

So once that happens, then that's kind of the next step.

I don't think it's going to be around the corner necessarily.

I don't think, like next year we're gonna have this coffee roastery, like this awesome cafe in the middle of a really neat airport.

I don't think that's gonna happen that quickly, but I don't know.

We'll see.

I definitely think within the next two years.

That's where I do want to land, like, comfortably.

I just want to find the right spot.

Yeah.

Well, I wish you the best.

I mean, it's good coffee.

Like I said, it's awesome to have at EAA at Oshkosh.

Said the coffee before is terrible and it's free, which is also really, really nice.

So if you haven't gone before, it's at the Textron booth.

You can, you can go get it there.

And you guys are always serving with a smile on your face, even though the line's always like 10 people deep.

And you're like, all right, what, what, what's next?

What's next?

What's next?

So it's awesome.

I do have a rapid fire section for you, and then we can wrap up and, and let you go.

So you can go hang out with your daughter or do some more work.

But I got some rap fire questions.

You just answer as fast as you can.

Don't try to think twice.

Just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

You Ready?

Okay.

Go for it.

All right.

What's something you wish you knew before you were a pilot?

The amount of time away from home.

Who in the industry would you like to meet?

Most.

First thought was actually Chuck Yeager, but unfortunately, I don't have that opportunity.

That would be my first choice.

Yeah.

All right.

Cool.

There you go.

You go.

Favorite thing about aviation?

Airplanes.

Hardest flight you've ever flown?

A triple leg red eye from Vancouver.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All the way back in a transcon at the end.

At the tail end.

So it was.

It was two legs, and then we did a transcon all the way Toronto in one night.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What's your favorite flight you've ever flown?

That's a great question.

I did an aerobatic flight in Harvard and was able to log an hour of that flight.

That was.

That was probably some of the most fun I've ever had.

Favorite airport to land at?

Unpopular opinion?

Jfk.

Because every single day is a complete different.

Different nightmare or a great day.

And you never know what's going to happen.

I. I do.

I'm one of those people who do like the thrill of not knowing what's going to happen next and trying to make the best out of it.

What's your least favorite airport to land at?

Ah, that's a great question.

I have no idea.

I don't even have an Air pride.

I don't have a single one that I dread.

Yeah.

Just loves airplanes.

Yeah.

There's nothing.

Nothing.

SAF.

Stands out where I'm like, I hate this place.

Would you rather fly IFR or vfr?

Ifr.

Daytime or nighttime?

Daytime.

Would you rather fly over mountains, beaches or the city?

Mountains.

Airbus or Boeing?

Boeing.

I'm heavily biased on that answer.

Favorite airline?

Delivery.

Your future employer could be watching this, so be careful.

Yeah, I was about to say.

Yeah.

How do I answer this?

Very carefully.

What's the hardest check ride you've had?

Private CRJ or ERJ.

If you had to fly one ERJ?

Piper, hands down.

Cessna 141 training or 61 training?

141.

Last two questions.

What is the biggest regret you have in your career if you have one?

Not going to the airline sooner.

When I had the opportunity to do a seal.

Same.

What is the biggest win of your career.

Going to the airlines and being fortunate enough to.

Biggest win of my career is being able to be an airline pilot at the age that, like, I'm 25 now, but when I started it, I. I was very, very lucky to get into it at that age.

Love it.

Dude.

Well, hey, man, I appreciate you coming to the podcast.

It was a lot of fun.

I know at Oshkosh, we joked I was coming up to, like, oh, you're the enemy, right?

Like a different coffee company.

The most Canadian answer I've ever heard.

Like, there's room for both of us, man.

I love Pilots Coffee.

And I was like, oh, so I can't do anything but just love you guys and what you do.

So I wish you the best.

And whatever airport you choose, I'm biased toward North Carolina.

You know, there's a lot of great airports here.

I can always get some coffee.

So come to North Carolina, man.

It's a great place.

It's better than.

Yeah, I. I'll have to say that North Carolina is absolutely stunning and beautiful.

So, I mean, who knows?

We'll.

Maybe we'll end up being there.

Maybe we do a pilot's coffee collaboration.

Have the airport roaster and cafe right there.

I love it.

Dude, that sounds like a plan.

All right.

Thanks again for having me.

I really appreciate it.

Anytime.

I appreciate it.

And before you go, if anyone's never heard of Hang 22 Coffee, what's the website?

What's your Instagram, kind of give yourself a shout out?

Yeah, it's hanger22coffee.com and then we're at Hangar 22 Coffee on pretty much every social, so you can find us there.

You know, make sure you follow us and like our content and otherwise.

Go get a bag of coffee.

We should.

Maybe.

We'll have to work on getting you guys a discount code or something, but otherwise, yeah, grab a bag of coffee to enjoy and otherwise I'll.

I'll be the one roasting it, getting it all ready and shipping it out to you guys.

So thanks again for the support.

Yeah.

Use code Pilots Coffee is better and you get 10.

I'm just kidding.

Just joking.

But I really do appreciate it.

Go buy the coffee.

It is good.

He gave me a bag at Oshkosh, so I need to buy one to support, but I drank it right away.

It was delicious.

So highly recommend.

He's probably drinking around right now, but go buy something.

It's great.

Yep.

Thanks, Justin.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, anytime.

That's a wrap from today's podcast.

I hope you enjoyed it if you did.

Like I said, YouTube.com pilot the pilot.

I actually don't know that's a URL, but just Google YouTube, pilot the pilot and it will pop up.

Leave a subscribe comment and just let us know you're there.

So that way we know that we can continue to build over there and dominate the aviation podcast ass world.

We are so back.

We are doing weekly, we're doing weekly on Pilot to pilot on YouTube and we're also doing some just video content as well on Instagram.

So we seem to be getting back into the groove of things.

Thank you so much for putting up with a little bit of a pause in content.

But we are back.

We are gonna kill it.

We're gonna continue dropping some epic, epic stuff.

We also have something cool planned that will come out at the end of this year.

Nick's probably listening to this, the editor and he's like crap, I didn't know you wanted out this year.

But we're hoping to have something cool come out here soon, so make sure you keep looking out for it.

You can also sign up for our email subscriber list on our website pilot pilot hq.com because that's where we will most likely announce it and also Instagram at Pilot Pilot AV Nation.

I hope you're having a great day and as always, happy flying.

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