Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.

I'm Kaylee.

And I'm John.

And today we're joined by Zach from Rugged Suppressors.

Zach, how are you today?

Good.

And yourself?

I am doing fantastic.

It's a beautiful day in Myrtle Beach.

Go ahead and tell the folks a little bit about yourself and the company.

Sure.

My name is Zach Keane.

I work at Rugspressers.

I'm the digital content manager there, and then have kind of my signed gig doing freelance photography with Keen Exposures.

But Rugspressors, the big thing we're known for is just kind of trying to make the most durable, reliable cans on the market backed by an unconditional lifetime warranty.

So one of the big things we're known for is no matter what happens, no matter how many times you're fully covered, so even if someone picks their can up, shoots a hole through the side of it, tells us they did it on purpose, we're still going to fix it for them for free.

Wow.

That is not a challenge to anyone listening.

But that's awesome.

You guys also make quite a splash with the kind of content.

And I know we were briefly talking about the sticker game that you guys have in the patch game.

What is it like kind of pushing the envelope and really making Rugged Suppressors a part of the pop culture side of the firearms community.

I think it makes it more entertaining, especially a lot of times for me.

I'll think to myself, I wish I had a shirt that was like this, which is kind of like, maybe selfish of me in some senses, but I could be like, oh, well, if Rugged makes a shirt like that, I can get one for free.

So I'll design one that's cool.

That looks like a shirt.

Shirt I would like to see.

So between shirts and hats and stickers, which I think works out well because most of us come from that industry and have the same mindset and culture.

And so we just think, let's make stickers, patches, shirts, hats, and things that we would like and actually wear ourselves instead of just standard, like the logo and nothing else.

So that's kind of the big thing behind it.

May have done that a time or two.

Designed a shirt that I wanted.

Yeah.

And same thing with patches like Shot show.

We always do kind of a special shot show patch we hand out with, like, the amber heard one that has or, like, disgusted face where it said when anyone shoots unsuppressed, so just kind of try and change it up and have fun things out there.

I love that.

Well, we're going to go into our first segment, which is rapid fire.

So I'm going to throw you some questions.

Try to answer them as quickly as you can.

See if we can stump you.

Or if you want to go in a little deeper, go for it.

So, first question, best self defense caliber?

I use 9 mil, probably just because that's usually what I have on me.

Like 5, 5, 6 would be nice, but realistically, I'm not walking around with my AR on my back.

All right, Glocker 1911 M&P.

Ooh, throwing a monkey wrench into that one.

Yep.

Grail gun.

What was that?

What's.

What is your grail gun?

I don't know what a grail gun is, to be honest with you.

What's the.

What is the gun that you want the most that you've been pining for?

I'm honestly lucky enough where I kind of have all the guns I've ever wanted.

Like, obviously there's things I could always want more of, but there was a gun I was up in Arctic Ammo not too long ago, and it was a triple barrel shotgun that was like 16 inches.

And I was like, this would be a pretty cool gun to have.

That was like the first thing in a while where I'm like, I kind of want to buy this.

I have no like actual use for it whatsoever.

But it's just kind of cool.

But yeah, as far as guns, having a minigun would be cool, but I could never afford to shoot it.

So that's kind of the problem.

If you could meet any historical figure, who would it be?

Maybe Theodore Roosevelt.

I like that answer.

It's a great answer.

And then the Last 1, top 3 guns of all time.

Of all time.

That's a hard question.

Yeah, I'd say probably the M40 or like Remington 700.

Just because I love that base and shot that gun so much.

The AR15, in a sense, just because it's so customizable.

You can do so many different things with it.

And I love my M P.

It's probably my favorite striker file pistol.

I feel like it's probably the most underrated pistol on the market, if I'm going to be honest.

I mean, I tend to agree with that answer.

Especially you throw an Apex on it and it's just amazing.

I went up to Apex and hung out with Scott and I was like, can you fix my MMP and make it better?

He's like, yeah, hold on.

Yeah, that is the best trigger for the mmp.

And it just makes the MP I'VE tricked out my M P compact.

I've got a fax and slide and barrel on it.

Yeah.

And apex trigger.

And I got a.

I've got a swamp fox on it.

And I'm working.

I gotta get a comp.

And once I hit the comp on it, it'll be all finished.

Yeah, I mean, I've shot most of all the different handguns out there.

And it's just, I think, like, my personal preference and all the rounds I put through it and, like, I filed down the slide release somewhat.

So, like, I put the mag in and the slide automatically goes forward.

And it's just one of those things where I'm like, I just have so much time on it.

I love it.

I mean, you gotta love them.

They're fantastic guns and they just work.

I just need, like, something else with the M and P line.

I just shot the.

Was it the Spectre comp About a week ago.

I think that's almost there to the perfect.

It still needs an Apex trailer, but it's almost there to the perfect mip.

So thank you for answering those questions.

They were real quick.

Let's go ahead and get into your backstory.

I heard it's a very interesting backstory.

So kind of dive in and tell your whole backstory.

Okay.

So I came to the industry in 2016 from the Marines.

So I was a scout sniper and then did a little over five years.

Got out just because I felt like there wasn't really a point to be there anymore because pretty much all the deployments ended and it was just go do udps and sit around and then train to go sit around some more.

So I was like, I'm kind of ready to do something real.

So got out and then started at Rugged in 2016.

I was the sixth employee doing, like, sandblasting.

I saw a thing on indeed for it.

I think we were talking about earlier how to get into the industry, but I did indeed.

And it was like a sandblasting position at Rugged Suppressors.

And I was.

I had to Google what sandblasting was because I didn't even know what it was.

And so I showed up and I was like, I don't know how to sandblast.

I'm not going to lie to you.

But I will learn how to do whatever to get my foot in the door and start working in the industry.

And so from there, I kind of started helping out with sales events and things because at the time it was six people.

So it was literally like, raise your hand if you want to go to this event this weekend?

And that's kind of who went.

And then started doing, like, testing and R and D things along those lines of just shooting things and testing them out and checking accuracy and things along those lines.

And then kind of worked my way up into the marketing position that I'm in now, where for a while, I was kind of running all of Rugged's marketing by myself for a few years, and then got in Cali Baldwin, who's now the director of marketing.

And so now it's kind of the two of us, and we've grown the team from there.

Yeah.

And what on the east mentioned, Lasalle, you do photography and stuff.

What made you get into the photography?

So I was stationed in Hawaii, and I remember taking pictures on my phone, and I was like, this doesn't look anything close to what it looks like in real life.

So I got a camera and kind of started working that way and trying to get better at it and see what I could do to make it look more realistic.

And then on the scout sniper side of things, I did photos for, like, surveillance.

But that's a completely different side of taking pictures.

You know, it's nothing artsy.

It's just like, here's a picture of this guy doing this thing or like, whatever compound kind of thing, you know?

And so from there, when I started at Rugged, as I was saying, we had, like, one person in marketing at the time.

The company was so small, and he would just take pictures with his cell phone.

Cause he was just like, I'm not a photographer.

I just need something.

So I was like, well, I at least can use a camera.

So I kind of grew from there and then got better at it.

And then from for a bit, there was a opportunity to go with Clandestine Media Group for an internship for photography.

So I took that and then worked with them for about a year, and then left and traveled full time in my camper for a bit, and then ended up coming back to Rugged.

That's awesome.

So do you do a lot of, like, the overlandings kind of stuff, or is that, like, a passion project?

A bit, yes.

Except I can't afford to do it properly, like, with some of the rigs out there, you know, that are like hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And I'm like, I would love to have a rooftop tent from go fast campers that I look up the price.

And I'm like, I don't have $10,000 to spend right now.

I totally get.

A turtle thinks that I have money because they Keep targeting me as if I should be able to afford their product.

And I'm like, I'm not, I'm not capable of that.

But I appreciate that you think so because I find your product amazing.

So I have like a Silverado, just 1500 in a camper that I just pull all over.

Like I bring it all over BLM and public lands and stay out there.

And then if I don't have the camper, I just have a tent.

Because I can't afford a rooftop tent.

Or at least I can't justify the money to me because it's like I could buy a brand new dirt bike or I could get a tent that goes on top of my truck or just set up my tent right next to the truck.

So as right now that's what I do.

Yeah, we just got, I just got a ranger and we got a bed tent that we're taking trying out right now.

And I'm just like, I would love a rooftop tent because everybody we go with have rooftop tents.

I'm like, yeah, I feel left out.

It seems a lot cooler than my little tent that pops up in the bed of my truck.

Yeah, well, at least you have that where for me I'll go with some people at times I'm like, I'm the poor guy.

They're all like pulling out their like Dom attack refrigerators and like all the like camp stoves and everything.

And I'm just like, I have my jet boil or a fire with a stick and a hot dog.

That is, that is my in laws.

They are very big into the overlanding stuff and I love it.

But it's, it's difficult.

We find that we're going camping less and less just because like our kids are so young and it's like I gotta, I have to have something off the ground to corral them.

Yeah, I need a place to put you.

Yeah, well, I make fun of.

So in college, like I was backpacking.

That was my camping.

So I was like, hammock, tarp.

Yeah, good to go.

I go camping with my in laws one time and they're like, yeah, we've got this bougie like camper and everything.

I'm just like, this isn't camping.

This is like camping adjacent where you're parking in a parking spot in a giant state park.

Yeah, I've had a similar thing where I'm like.

Because I have a camper too, but I don't consider staying in my camper camping.

It's just like my mobile one bedroom apartment.

So I've been with people, too, where they're like, we're going camping this weekend.

I'm like, cool.

So I get my backpack with all my backpacking gear and show up, and they're like, oh, this is where we're staying in the state park with their camper and everything set up.

And I'm like, this is not camping.

Like, you have ac.

You've got, like, a TV you're watching.

Yeah.

I'm like, you're watching TV right now?

That's not a normal camping activity.

I'm like, yeah, I've got my little stove, and I had my backpack all set up, and my wife's like, what are you doing?

We're going camping.

I got us two hammocks.

We got this.

We're gonna go camping.

She's like, no, we're making tacos.

You're making tacos?

What do you mean?

Is this.

Look, I've got pita bread and pizza sauce.

You can make good food camping, regardless of the level.

I will say this camp food hits different.

It just does.

And breakfast burritos on a campsite are the best.

And you can't prove that I'm wrong.

Oh.

Oh, yeah, they definitely are.

That's like, I have a friend, and he'll bring, like, steaks out, like, and he'll just keep them, like, cold in his pack and do that.

And I'm like, I like camping with you because I'll pull out a mountain house.

And I'm like.

And I'm also a terrible cook, so I'm like, this is the fanciest cooking I ever have anyways.

And so I made.

I call.

I call them adult lunchables.

It's just pita bread and pizza sauce and, like, pepper.

I would bring that every time I go backpacking, and people are like, you know, you can make real food.

I'm like, no, this is quick and easy.

Like, I can have this.

It's got everything I need.

I thought you were going to be like, I make an adult lunchable, and then just like, name everything on charcuterie board.

And I'm going to be like, you are a millennial.

No, Like, I brought beef jerky.

Yeah.

Why?

Because it's.

That's camping food.

Yeah.

Like, lightweight stuff that I can throw in a backpack.

I'm with Team.

His friend with steaks.

I love food.

Okay.

I'm not a person that uses food as just a survival mechanism.

Like, I like good food, and I think that's why I have a good husband, is because I have trapped him with good food.

Yeah.

So I definitely tend to go like overboard when we go camping.

Like I want good breakfast burritos, I want steak.

Like I want.

I.

I want the meals to mean something on a camping trip.

Well, so since we're talking camping, what is the best backpacking camping gun?

One of the guns I just got back from Alaska not too long ago and I was running 4570 with from Marlin with the new like magpul setup.

And I absolutely love that thing with like a leold I the mark 41 to 4 on it.

And then kind of put like the hand stop thing which everyone thought was stupid because they were like, that's just too tactical.

And I'm like if I'm hiking for six miles at a time, it's nice to have something where the gun's not like slipping around in your hand.

So that was really nice.

Especially having to worry about like bear country and things along those lines.

So kind of depends where you are though because on the east coast I just like having like a fold up.

22 because I can just set it up and once we get to the campsite I can just shoot 22 and screw off and it's a great time.

I think right now mine is a 10 mil 1911 only because I've got mountain lion and bobcats and other things to worry about and just like, cool, I'm gonna get this.

Hopefully I don't run into anything.

Yeah, that's a good option.

Eventually I'd like to get a 10 but oh, I haven't yet.

Fine.

That and it's nice because you can actually shoot a bear with it.

That's why I'm running like the 4570 lever gun because it's not like I'm going to pull out my 9 mil and just be like time to shoot this grizzly bear and just piss it off before it eats me.

It's probably a good idea.

Oh gosh.

You know, somebody's probably done it.

Never mind.

No, we won't go down there.

No, there's a.

Have you seen the story?

There's a guy because only know this because I had a guy who I used to work with who worked for Buck knives.

There's a guy in Alaska who killed a grizzly bear with his buck knife.

Really?

And like because he got it right in the throat and it's like he's like the spokesman for buck and he's like 110 saved my life.

Jeez, can you imagine?

Do you make it into a big coat too, with, like, the head over his face.

So he has this amazing, amazing outfit.

And he's like, I killed this with my bare hands.

He's got the knife, like, mounted on, like, a plaque, and it still has, like, the bare hair in it and stuff.

I'm like, you are the.

He's a better.

Yeah, he's a better person.

That's insane.

Would never.

Well, you live by a national park.

I do.

Like, the amount of people walking through the Smoky Mountains and seeing black bear.

I'm kind of like, okay, you look at them, you kind of walk away.

The amount of people I've seen, like, look, Ma, it's a bear.

I'm going to go touch it.

The problem with where I used to live, specifically because I grew up in Sevier County, Tennessee, is the bear and the wildlife are around people way too much now.

And people keep thinking that it's okay to touch them.

And it's like, no, those are still wild animals.

Yeah.

And they just.

It really bothers me, to be completely honest, the lack of respect for the wildlife and because people don't realize, like, they could hurt you very easily and you probably especially shouldn't touch the cubs.

And I don't understand why.

I feel like needing to make this PSA right now, but it's just like, I cringe at it now.

I don't live in that area anymore.

I live in Upper East Tennessee, where people.

The bears aren't as acclimated to people.

But, yeah, it is a wild time with tourists.

They just think they can do.

It's like they think it's a petting zoo.

And I'm like, it's not.

Let's not.

What do you mean?

Like, what was it?

Three months ago, some lady picked up a cub and it bit her and she, like, threw.

Then they started chasing it around.

Oh, my gosh.

I didn't see that, but I'm not surprised by it.

Yeah, I think it was in North Carolina.

Psa respect wildlife.

Please don't.

Don't be like that person.

Well, we are halfway through the show, which means it's time for our segment from the Soapbox, where we tackle an issue that is on the controversial side for some people in the firearms community.

And today we're going to be talking about suppressors, freedom, and the nfa.

So what are your hot takes?

I mean, I don't believe the ATF should exist at all, but I'd imagine most people listening to this would agree with that.

The NFA specifically is definitely a pain, especially with suppressors.

The Thing that's been really crazy lately is just the wait.

Times changing was kind of like threw a wrench in for us.

It's definitely great being that they're faster, but it came out of nowhere.

Like I remember we were hanging out, we heard from the asa, the American Expressway association, like, hey, the system's going down, we don't know for sure when it's going to be back up.

And we were like, okay, I guess we'll wait for eForms.

Which is a whole problem in itself because the problem is when eforms is down and the system is down, we can't sell anything, we can't ship anything.

We literally have racks full of suppressors for people trying to get back orders out where we're just waiting for the approves to be formed or approved.

That way we can ship them to distributors who then have to do forms to ship them to dealers who then have to do the form fours to get them to individual.

So it's a ton of paperwork and bureaucracy that takes a ton of time and slows down the whole process.

But anyways, all of a sudden eforms goes back up, there's a town hall with the ATF and they're like wait times now are going to be around a week, which is amazing.

I mean, I've gotten cans back where I got two cans in two days and then two more within a week.

But the thing is, demand went through the roof.

So as you'd imagine overnight it was just like we're getting orders that are exponentially more than anything we've had.

So it's just a matter of trying to scale, going from, you know, when I started we had six people and now we're exponentially well above that and just trying to hire on good workers that can maintain quality since we build everything in house and kind of keep up with that.

So it's been a wild ride.

I mean that's insane.

You went from like what, six months to a year to.

I've heard people getting them in hours, just quick turnaround time.

Like I had a shop, we walked in a local shop, I walked into, we were talking and he's like, oh, we just got the approval back.

I'm like, oh yeah, how long did that one take?

He goes, the guy just left.

Yeah, and we've already got his approval.

We got to call him, we have him come back to pick it up.

It's insane that I just don't understand how they could go from six months to the matter of some cases, even hours or days.

What changed well, it's one of those big things where it kind of shows like this was purposefully done to prevent people from buying cans.

Because a lot of people, that was their main thing is I don't want to spend money to pay for this, then pay for a $200 tax stamp, and then I don't get anything right away because, you know, we've all kind of gotten used to like Amazon, where I'm like, I got spoiled for a while living in Colorado, you know, where it was like same day shipping.

And so nowadays I'm like, two day shipping.

What in the world?

And so I think it's people want to spend their money on something and get it right away.

So that was a big thing of I don't want to buy something and have to wait a year to pick it up, you know, So I think it kind of shows that that was almost something made up and done just as a deterrent.

Which is kind of interesting why they're changing that all of a sudden now.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of different levels and there's definitely been a lot of conspiracy theories.

And I'm sure for 90% of the people listening to this podcast, they're like, well, you know, they're just doing this so that, you know, they can't be sued on an exorbitantly long wait time.

And I'm sure there's probably some truth to that, but I think it kind of gets back to the core value or the core belief of like, a right delayed is a right denied.

And this is something that doesn't make the gun more deadly.

It doesn't change anything except for providing hearing protection.

And, you know, we look at places like Europe where it's almost mandatory to have.

You have OSHA coming out in support of suppressors.

Yes.

And so it's one of those things where one plus one is really never equaled two.

And I think it's why you're seeing a consistent push on the federal level and even to some degree on state levels to try to get more suppressor freedom.

Whether that's hunting with a suppressor or actually having the passage of something like the Shush act, which was Senator Mike Lee's bill.

You know, those things have significant value because, you know, ultimately I think most gun owners would like to shoot without having to have hearing protection and, you know, or additional hearing protection.

And I also believe that from a gun culture standpoint, the fear around the suppressors, you know, how Hollywood built them up to be where it's completely silent like, we've been able to debunk that to such a degree that I'm not sure that Hollywood has the same hold that they would have had 10 years ago.

You know, if you compare a James Bond movie of now versus, you know, a few decades ago, the suppressors sounded wildly different.

Hollywood lies.

How dare you call out Hollywood like that?

I know.

How dare you call out Alec Baldwin.

Well, I think the big thing is, for me, like, even if they didn't lie, like, say, let's say suppressors made a firearm completely silent where there's no sound whatsoever, I don't think that should mean that they shouldn't be legal anyways.

Like, I don't think a suppressor should be legal just because it's, quote, unquote, not as good as you'd think.

Because the Second Amendment isn't around to be like, oh, you can have a firearm as long as it's not too effective.

Like, realistically, we have guns to kill people and the government like a tyrannical government.

And so that's kind of the big thing for me is it's like we.

You can't be like, oh, this should be allowed because it's not too dangerous, it's not too deadly, it's not too silent.

And that's one of the things we hear in arguments a lot.

And I think that's good just to sway politicians and things.

But in a sense, I'm like, I don't believe we should have any infringements on rights or for firearms in general.

So what happens when one day someone makes a suppressor that, yeah, you don't hear anything whatsoever.

Is it all of a sudden they're going to be like, oh, well, now we should make these illegal because they are too deadly?

That's an excellent point, especially as we continue to improve technology and durability and those sort of things.

You know, you want to see the industry grow and innovate.

And so you don't want to base an entire argument on, well, it's not completely silent.

I definitely agree with you there.

Because, you know, the goal was to make these things better and better, or.

It'S not for that purpose, like Hollywood assassin movies.

And it's like, I didn't have a suppressor on my sniper Rifle or my M4A1 for no reason, just because I wanted a weight to stick off the end.

You know, like, it's because it made me more deadly.

And so I think that goes back to, like, the main purpose of having firearms is for that reason.

And so I think that is a huge benefit and along with the sound, because that's a lot of things people don't consider.

I actually did a blog on where it's hearing protection isn't actually protecting your hearing.

Because if you look at, say, the best hearing protection in best case scenario, which a lot of people have shown isn't usually what hearing protection gives you is like 30 decibels of protection.

Well, if you're shooting multiple rounds, you're already getting hearing damage even with hearing protection.

And then you get the concussive blast where if you shoot a break, you're actually getting the sound waves through the bones in the front of your face that go around to your eardrums.

So even doubling up is giving you hearing damage.

So if you really want to protect your ears and you're shooting long periods of time, running a can with hearing protection is kind of the only way to do that.

But it's funny because I just, I took the leap and got an Apple watch for the first time in technology.

I sound old, but I'm not.

But I went to a Rain Shade the other day and it's like you are in a loud environment.

I'm like, no.

Really?

Yeah.

But like, even now I'm just like the, the amount of hearing, like my wife will talk to me and she goes, she'll say something and I go, what?

You're talking to me?

What?

What did you say?

It's just from being at so many range days and events.

The other thing point I kind of want to bring up is back when you started, and it's about the same time I started in the industry, suppressors were this taboo thing.

It was kind of like, you know, hey there, you've got to have a Class 3.

The.

The myth, the Ms.

No Class 3 license.

And it's all this wait time and the.

In the last.

I guess we can call it the renaissance of suppressors.

In the last four or five years, it's been coming into common use.

And that's the same argument we've been having with the government on AR15s and things like that.

Things in common use.

I think that tinfoil hat time.

I think that's also why the ATF is kind of pushing this quicker.

But also there's so many conspiracy theories.

We could put our tinfoil hat around this just quick uptick in.

But it has.

It hasn't been.

It.

I think it has a lot to do with companies putting out more information.

It has a lot to do with more content creators putting out suppressor information.

But it hasn't been this very taboo thing anymore.

It's just common use.

Everybody's getting into it and we're seeing that shift also on the industry side with range days where you're getting more suppressor hours or suppressor dedicated range days or even just suppressor, you know, hey, we're going to spend the half day just shooting suppressed.

Then a lot of companies actually even reach out to me, like if we're on the way to an event and they don't have suppressors for their cans, they're like, hey, could you guys send us or let us use cans during this event?

That way we can have our firearms suppressed.

So I think it's becoming very popular where people are actually seeing the benefits to running suppressors and things like that.

And then with the wait times, it makes it a lot easier.

Which, yeah, you can get it in the whole conspiracy thing.

I know, like a big one.

Is, is this just a test process to force ARS to be NFA items and to show they can handle it?

Essentially, because I'm kind of a big believer that the government's not really in the business of giving up ground or giving rights back.

And so it's kind of, who knows what happens with that.

But that's why you guys exist, to try and fight back against it if they try that.

Geez.

Insane.

Yeah, I mean there's definitely a lot of conspiracy theories and a lot of them probably have some merit to them as well.

I think that it's important for us to be proactive as much as we can.

And that's why we send email alerts out, we post stuff on social media as much as humanly possible to get information out.

Because let's be completely honest, unless you are on our legal team or you're on our state and local or federal team, you're probably not spending your day reading every single thing that the government puts out.

Finding the gun control.

No.

Yeah.

And I'm so thankful that we have those people and I am also equally, if not more grateful that I am not that person.

Yes.

I like the email digestible version and I think I would pull my hair out.

It's just not for me.

But I'm so thankful that we have them and that we have the ability to get that information out because you have to be proactive on these things and we have to constantly get things like the Shush act or the Suppressor Freedom Acts introduced and we have to, even if they're not going to be signed by the current administration or maybe depending on when this episode releases, we don't know who the president is.

The world could be burning down right now.

The world could be burning.

We have no idea.

This has escalated.

I'm in China for World War 3.

This will come out after November.

So I don't want to say, but President Biden was not going to sign a suppressor freedom act.

Right.

But we get them introduced and we start talking about them because hopefully eventually we can have a president in office that will sign those things.

And you have to have that groundwork and you have to, you know, get all of your ducks in a row to be able to capitalize on any momentum that we do have.

But one of the things that I think is interesting that I don't feel like is talked very much about when it comes to suppressors, is probably one of the slowest moving ships, so to speak, within the gun community.

And that's the hunters, you know, we're seeing now.

I believe it's like all but three states, don't quote me on that, that allow hunting suppressed.

And, you know, we've been able to kind of pick those off one by one.

And, you know, that also opens up a new market because, yes, they might not be going and shooting thousands of rounds, but the more that we're able to kind of add to the coalition, the better we are on actually being successful.

Oh, absolutely.

That's why we did, like, our whole Alaskan line where it's pretty much dedicated to hunters.

I mean, it fills other roles, but we made something that's as light as possible, especially for backcountry hunting, like the Alaskan series.

I just got back from DO in Alaska for hunting, and that's a big thing.

People are pushing just because no one's walking around with earmuffs on because they want to hear what's around them.

And then you shoot once.

And some people think like, oh, it's not a big deal, but that one time shooting without a suppressor hearing protection is hearing damage.

And it adds up over time.

And a lot of people don't think about that.

And then you have benefits where you can actually communicate with people if you have to take follow on shots.

I've had times before where I was doing like, go to eradication, where I took out an entire family and they didn't even know what was going on because I'm running a can and they hear a noise.

One of them drops and they're looking around like, what was that?

And then the next noise and they hear the round go through the one and are looking at the rocks behind them because they think something came from that.

And so that's a huge benefit for hunters as well is your chances of follow up shots, your recoil reduction, you're protecting your hearing.

And then a big benefit right now that's different is a lot of times you'd buy a can and you're not going to have it until next hunting season.

Whereas like you were saying earlier, with canned turnarounds in a year or hour, you can purchase a can now and actually have for hunting season.

Which is a big thing I think a lot of hunters didn't do because they're like, I don't want to have to spend my money right now for something I can't even use until next season.

Yeah, you definitely have to be thinking about things like way in advance previously.

And it is, it is nice to see that we're getting more suppressors out on the market and to everyday people because, you know, this is a winnable fight when it comes to, you know, dismantling the NFA and actually seeing a restoration in our rights, which I think a lot of people have kind of been hesitant about that feeling that we can have success.

Yes.

Because it feels like we've been, especially on the federal level, playing in a defensive mode, trying to protect what we have, you know, whether that is, you know, the pistol brace wanting to make millions of people felons overnight, the bump stocks before that.

And so, you know, I want to remind everyone that we now have over 50% of the country with constitutional carry.

Yes.

Because of the grassroots movement.

And the more that we carry that momentum to the federal level, the more that we can actually start winning on these, these fights.

We don't have to simply play defensively.

We can also make offensive plays as well.

Yes.

Which I definitely think is something that's huge because it can definitely be discouraging.

And especially like with the emails you were saying help a lot because people have super busy lives.

I mean, I don't have time necessarily and I work in the industry to keep up with every single law or every single thing happening.

Because especially it's not like it's on mainstream media.

You don't go on Fox News or CNN and they're like, check out the new infringement of the day or like whatever gun right movement or like gun rights or Gun Owners of America come out and are winning these battles and people aren't necessarily seeing them unless they're following you guys.

Because it's not coming out on mainstream media to show like, hey, we're Actually starting to make ground or at least hold the ground, which I think is a big thing in itself.

When you look at just the huge movement to come after us of actually being able to fight back of the bump stocks and pistol braces and things along those lines.

Yeah.

And it's more than just the general culprits.

I know it's very easy for us to say, you know, look, the ATF has become bloated and they wanted to make millions of Americans felon overnight.

Fact check.

True.

But we also are seeing infringements in different areas that you might not think to look for.

Gun control, for example, the lead ammo ban on public lands that was pushed through the Department of the Interior.

And so you're constantly having to look at everything kind of wholesale to see because they're very, the anti gunners are very smart and they're tactical and how they go about this.

And so, you know, they, they really, you know, if you're not paying attention, you'll let something slip that we can't afford to let slip.

And so, you know, that's why again, I'm so thankful I'm not on the team, but I'm glad that we have the right people on the team to make those things happen.

Yeah.

Because even with like banks, like being in the gun industry and as a manufacturer, it's hard having like banks and credit cards because credit card companies all of a sudden will potentially just be like, oh, we're not working with you anymore.

And even like websites is something I have to worry about.

Or like email providers where it's just like all of a sudden our email platform is like, oh, sorry, you're a gun manufacturer.

We just shut down everything you have.

And it's just like, well, can I get contacts or do something to get that information that's valuable to reach people that want to hear from us.

And it's just kind of like, like screw off, like.

And so it's from every angle.

I think a lot of times people don't consider.

Well, yeah, we were talking to Matador Arms way early in when we started this and they had their bank was pushing through orders and they were getting all their.

Or their card processor was pushing through orders and they sent out $13,000 worth of product and the bank held it and they're like, yep, nope, you guys sell guns, we're gonna keep your money.

Yeah.

Name another industry where they can just keep your money.

It's not weed.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the only other one that I can think of.

That's very pushed down on it.

I mean, this is a constitutionally given right.

Yes.

Should it be able to just hold funds or anything like that because of your decision making?

Yeah.

Like if we were a toilet paper company, they wouldn't get away with that, you know, and toilet paper is not protected by the Constitution, you know, and unfortunately, the problem is it's like an uphill battle to fight it because of course, the government is totally on their side for a majority.

Luckily, South Carolina is not too bad, you know, but the problem is it's a constant fight, you know, where you see states that are typically more red or conservative or pro gun, where people move to those areas and work to change things so they can turn it into their own hellscape they came from.

And so that's kind of the problem as well.

You kind of see it from all sides that it's a constant battle, but it's a battle worth fighting, you know, for our rights and to protect our ability to protect ourselves.

Absolutely.

And one of the things that is important is as people move from these states, that we as gun owners build an on ramp for them to understand the value of personal responsibility, the value of freedom, the value of even if they don't want to participate in the second Amendment, that they are also losing something too.

It is a personal right.

And, you know, it's easy to say, well, I want this taken away from you, but when they have to recognize that they're also taking it away from themselves.

I do think it adds a level of, well, why?

And the answer is because you want to have the ability to actually be free.

Yes.

And the more conversations that we can have, the more new gun owners that we can bring into the movement, the better off we are at not only keeping conservative states pro gun states pro gun, but actually turning the tide in some of those other areas as well.

And I think it's a big thing too, to make sure people understand that, like the second Amendment is what's holding things at the door for all the other things to come after that.

Like if you look in the uk, you know, where people are literally being arrested for things they put on social media.

And so it's like, oh, you don't like that?

Well, the second Amendment is something that helps fight against that.

And I think a big thing too is just explaining, say like red flag laws.

I think they do a very good job of making things seem like, how would you be against a serial killer having a gun or whatever, you know, because in theory, saying this kid talks about all he ever wants to do is shoot his school up and dreams of being a serial killer.

And all these things you'd think like, oh, red flag laws should be around to stop that.

But the thing they don't consider is, well, if you look at red flag laws, who's making these rules and saying who's a threat, you know, where they already are outright saying like, oh, if you don't believe in us, you're a right wing extremist and you're a right wing fringe terrorist.

So it's like, oh, you went from a kid that legitimately may not probably shouldn't have a gun if he's talking about I dream of murdering innocent people to this entire group of people we're now labeling as terrorists.

And red flag laws allowed us to take their guns overnight.

And so I think that's a big thing of explaining to people like, this may seem good because the government wants to try and make it make sense or be like, oh, that'd be a nice thing.

But you're not thinking about the effects of why is this really around?

Everyone knew a lot of the last school shooters and stuff.

The FBI knew about it.

Let's be real.

The government doesn't really care.

All they really care about is having more power.

And so it's kind of.

And I think most people, especially after Covid, understand like the government is not here to help you.

It's just how much power can they take?

So if you show them, like they say this because of this, but this is what this actually means and is coming after.

And I think more people can somewhat understand that.

Where at first they may off the top hear something about a gun.

Right.

Or gun control act and be like, oh, that's common sense, you know.

And I think that's a big thing of why they passed that.

And I heard Tim Waltz was friends with a lot of them.

Yes.

And Blackrock.

Yes.

Possibly go wrong.

Yeah, I mean we've.

We've gotten some flack from specifically Michigan and a couple other places where we've what appears to be pro2 a bill so constitutional carry in Michigan where it was littered with red flag laws.

And red flag laws are one of the scariest thing as a gun owner.

It's one of the scariest things out there because if my neighbor does not agree with me but knows I have guns, I can instantly get red flag locked.

Oh yeah.

Especially depending on where you live.

Like say you live in California and you own a handgun.

Well, to your neighbor and everyone around you, you may be a Crazy extremist nut job because you own a handgun.

And that's the whole reasoning behind it.

So red flag police are kicking your door in the middle of the night.

And you're probably, if you think to yourself like, which has happened already, where you get a no knock raid, someone kicks your door in, you get your gun and the cops shoot you.

It's kind of like that's a real thing that's happening that comes from this, that a lot of people don't think of.

It's not just some like, oh, it's the best intentions of actually trying to stop these evil people from having firearms.

It's like, no, this is just a tool to disarm people.

Yeah.

And the reality is red flag laws, gun confiscation orders, and I think it's very important that we make that understanding be very clear, is that red flag laws is a rebranding by the left for gun confiscation orders.

And it is not just an attack on the second Amendment, it is a direct attack on the fourth Amendment as well.

And so you're not just giving up one right by allowing this to happen, you're giving up two.

And I think that's an important thing to recognize for the people who might not be pro gun, but if you ask them about their fourth Amendment right, all of a sudden they're big fans.

And so it's like, well, so you're infringing both.

And once that ground is lost, yes, we'll fight in the courts to preserve both of them, but we can't afford to give up those rights.

And so again, when you're communicating with people who don't realize that it's a rebrand that don't realize that they're losing not one, but two constitutional rights that, you know, we, we call that out when the media is making those plays because that's how you're going to ultimately turn the tide.

I couldn't have said it better.

A big thing too, a lot of people don't even consider is like the veteran community with suicides and how everything's a huge issue on that side is there's a lot of people that are like, and myself included at times where it's like, I wouldn't want to see a therapist.

And some people were like, oh, that's far fetched.

And it's like, like all they have is like, oh, veteran with this background goes and sees a therapist for mental health problems.

It's like, oh, immediate, like, that's an easy red flag thing to go after.

So there's a good amount of people that are.

They don't want to potentially see a therapist, if you would need one, you know, with having issues with suicide and things like that.

Because it's like, I don't want to have something like that on my record.

That's a means for them to come and kick my door in and take my guns or potentially kill me.

Yeah.

And, you know, especially on the veteran issue, and I'll briefly touch on this topic, and I know we're running out of time.

There have been such a direct attack when it comes to the Second Amendment and our veterans, and it's not because of the suicide rate or because of PTSD or whatever the talking points want to be.

It's because they don't really want those rights to exist.

And what I'm referencing is the VA's fiduciary act that we've been fighting for over 10 years now.

And it's basically if a veteran is having to receive help with their finances or having an issue accessing the benefits that they earned, it's a.

To the people navigating the system of the va, and they can just suspend your rights because you're not capable of managing your benefits.

And that's ridiculous.

Yes, The VA is wildly convoluted to begin with.

It's very hard to get appointments.

It's very hard to navigate.

Just in general, it is a known struggle that veterans have been having for years and years and years.

And to then punish them for using the resources to help them get the benefits that they earned is such a backhanded response to people who serve our country.

And it's why we've been fighting this again.

I believe we're in our 11th year of fighting the Veterans Fiduciary rule.

And that is outrageous and egregious.

It is.

I don't know how to fill in that.

I didn't honestly even know that was a thing.

Ought to look into that, because that's one of those things we were talking about earlier.

It's not something where they're going to outright talk about.

And as you were saying, like, in the fine print is how they do all that stuff.

It's like the similar thing, you know, where everyone's losing their mind about the whole Immigration act, where it's like, oh, well, you had a chance to fight immigration, but you voted it down.

It's like, well, if you looked in the fine print, it actually says, like, hundreds of thousands of illegals are allowed in per however many.

Like much of time so it actually didn't do that.

So it's a similar thing where as you were saying, where it's like, oh, this is a pro gun movement, but if you read the fine print, it actually isn't.

And it's just their way of slipping things through.

Well, it's like any bill that goes in the left is really good at this and they'll put out a bill and we've seen it in the, you know, their budgetary bills and things like that.

They'll put gun control in it and we'll, we'll contact our senators and congressmen and say, don't vote for this bill.

And they'll go, look, the right doesn't want this bill passed.

They don't, they don't want to solve the government.

We're going to have to shut down, we're going to have to do this.

But there's so much other stuff hidden in it.

If it was just cut and dry, you know how much more stuff we could get done.

Yeah, like a one page paper.

But instead it's like thousands and thousands of pages and they're just like, we just came out with this like bill that's thousands and thousands and thousands of pages.

Yeah.

And you have to read it.

You have no time to read it.

Just pass it or don't.

And it's just wild.

But that's how they get all their stuff through.

I like the fact that we have politicians that you can go back and look on record that say you have to pass it to read it.

Yes, on legislation should just infuriate and these people are still in office.

It should infuriate every single American.

And then I'll make this final point and then I promise, like I'll shut up for the rest of the time.

But it blows my mind when you look at some of the must pass bills, the can't fail bills, those things are so convoluted, they rarely mean what they say it'll be.

You know, the Safer Community act, for example, the bipartisan gun control bill that passed, if you read the headline Safer Community act, there is not a logical person on earth that wouldn't say, I like safer communities.

Of course you do, you have a brain.

Yes, but what the bill actually did in the print did nothing to make communities safer.

It actually caused them to be wildly unsafe.

And so it should have been named the Unsafer Community Bill.

But that's not, you know, that wouldn't fit the thing.

Sure, that.

And there's probably also billions of dollars going to foreign countries within it too.

Same thing with like the immigration bill where it's just.

Just wild in the thing of just like pass it before you read it.

Could you imagine being like, I would like to buy this vehicle.

How much does it cost?

Don't worry about it.

Sign this paper here and afterwards we'll tell you how much money it costs.

And it's going to be a 50% interest rate, but it's all good.

Oh, and you don't get the test drive it either.

Yeah, yeah.

And then the other thing is like the National Defense Authorization act, we find gun control in that every year, and we have to fight to get it removed.

And it's a constant fight to get it removed in the omnibus bills and the fiscal bills that can't fail bills because you have to have the government running.

They say those things are so riddled with gun control that our team is constantly having to speed read to find out what it is so that we can alert our members before it's time for them to vote on it.

Sure.

And it's not like they're reading it like, you think Nancy Pelosi's reading this?

I bet she probably can't even actually read it nowadays.

She's gotten so old.

So it's just like, oh, does this infringe with your rights Pass.

She's too busy lining her pockets.

I know.

That's my hot tech for the day.

You know, my favorite line from the office, and this should go to all politicians, is from Kevin.

It's why use many words when few words do trick.

Yes.

I'm just saying the Second Amendment is 27 words, and there are millions of words infringing upon them that have passed since.

I mean, look at a lot of our.

What our founding fathers wrote was very like, yep, to the point we want.

Yep, this is what's going to happen.

Yes.

So you're telling me.

Yes.

That our founders thought that we were smart enough to understand plain language, and therefore they wrote things in plain language so that all of the citizenry could understand what was going on.

What do you mean?

And it worked.

Yeah.

No way.

It's funny how they try and misconstrue it too, where they're like, it's only for a militia or whatever things.

And it's like, okay, you want to just make up whatever you want to say, but like, let's actually read quotes from the people that wrote it too.

And it's pretty evident they're like, you have guns to fight the government.

And it's just.

That's like simply why it was created.

And I think that goes back to the whole thing of people being like, well, this gun is too dangerous.

And it's like, let's go back to why we have guns.

It's not to hunt, which is a huge benefit.

It's not to have fun.

It's to be able to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government.

And so of course it's like, yes, it's dangerous.

That's why I need it.

What do you mean, Kaylee?

We used to have presidents that would want walk through town and talk to citizens and hear what they have to say.

What do you mean?

Our politicians are supposed to serve us?

No.

No, you're wrong.

How dare you think so boldly that.

The Republic so boldly.

Well, on that.

We're gonna have to wrap this episode up.

We're getting the signal in the other room.

So where can everyone find you?

Us, Website, social, all of that stuff.

So my personal Zach Keane is just Z a K K E E H N on Instagram and then Rugged Suppressors is Rugged Suppressors and then Rugged suppressors dot com.

So any questions anyone ever has on cans, anything along those lines, we have real people that actually answer the phone that are within our building and we'd love to talk to you and answer any questions anyone has.

Awesome.

Well, guys, make sure to like, share, subscribe.

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