I'm this episode of the Dudes and Dads podcast.
We talk with our good friend Caleb K.
You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast,
a show dedicated to helping men be better dudes and dads
by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling.
And now here are your hosts, Joel Damana and Andy Lane.
Andrew, Joel, you can't even get it right.
Guys, that's what happens.
Welcome back to our studio.
The last time you're like you I was in a hotel room and I left you alone.
You left me for, I don't know what, but you left me.
Yeah, I had work. I had the work you work stuff. Yeah.
Oh, gosh, what a day it's been here, Andy.
How are things with you? You good?
I'm good. I mean, it's been sunny and not sunny for a few days.
And I like it's been we were just talking about this before we started.
It's been a brutal early, early.
We'll call it fake spring. Oh, yeah, it's it's been terrible.
It's been terrible and we're waiting.
We're as we're entering the month of May.
We are looking to actually see sunshine.
See, I don't be greedy here, Andy, but let's just say
let's let's just try for some 60 degree weather. How about that?
I'm cool. I'm not asking for miracles.
Just no frost. That'd be nice.
Yeah, frost. Yeah.
It is funny on my wife's side of the family.
We have cousins that live up in North Central Wisconsin.
They've got a good foot of snow on the ground. Geez, geez.
Whenever it's bad, whenever it's bad,
and I feel like I should get all kinds of grumpy.
I just say at least I don't live in Rhinelander, Wisconsin.
That's what I say.
Well, Andy, we we want to begin the show, obviously,
just by, as always, thanking our good, our good supporters,
all the people over at over at the page, the Patriots, the Patriots, the people.
You guys help keep this show on the road, on the road, a float.
There we go.
Financially viable. Yes. Yes.
So you keep us going and we love that.
So thank you. Yeah.
As always, you can head over to dudes and dads pop.
Why do you keep saying pop?
Yeah, pop. I'm on the pop quiz that comes at the end.
You can head over to the dudes and dads podcast dot com slash support.
Yes. And that will get you over to a patron.
You sound like it feels like we haven't done this show in forever.
Yeah, it's a little it's a little guys.
We're going to get all the bugs out right here at the beginning.
It's going to go smoothly as soon as soon as our guest comes on.
So we do have without further ado, without further ado.
We want to bring Caleb on.
Caleb, welcome to the show.
It's good. Good to have you here.
Here. Thank you. Thank you.
Oh, there we go.
Glad to be here. Oh, Caleb.
That's so kind of you.
Oh, Caleb.
You know, we really try to put on a profession.
Yeah, you calm down.
We really try to put a professional show on here,
and it does feel like I'm getting back on a on a on a rowdy horse.
If we can say that it feels like he's got a rowdy one.
If you will flustered, you're like, oh, Caleb's on tonight.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, Caleb, so Caleb's Caleb is a good dear friend of both.
And yeah, we've Caleb, it's been, I don't know.
We've probably about five years ago that we've met now, I guess.
And I'm going to brag a little bit.
I got to hang out with Caleb.
Be since, you know, yes, quicker than you have.
I mean, I hang out with him in February, physically back in February
and in the Florida in the warm, still salty about it.
Yeah, absolutely. In the warm weather.
And yes, remember that time we were in Florida and didn't come?
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for.
We remember it.
Yeah. Really rough.
Caleb and I hung out.
Thanks for bringing it up.
So glad you guys could do that.
Yeah. So Caleb's a good friend.
Caleb's got another.
I just see Caleb is one of our many friends who has
just a really great story that we're in.
And great, interesting, challenging story.
I there's probably a lot of adjectives we can throw on there and unique,
if you will, unique, if you will.
But Caleb was, we always like to start off with so we can just get to know you
a little bit better, have our have our listeners kind of know what you're all
about. We always like to start with what we call the dad stat.
So tell us about you, what you do, who you're married to, who your kids are,
how old they are, maybe all of us, all the things and even some things
you want to share with them that would be potentially embarrassing.
That's that's fine, too.
This is really your chance to really just put it all out there.
Whatever, whatever you'd like to.
But yeah, please introduce us to you.
All right. Well, I am me.
I'm Caleb and I live in Annapolis, Maryland.
Well, I live outside of Annapolis, but if I tell you I live in Bowie,
nobody knows where that is.
I had to look it up. I did have to look it up.
I had to. Yeah.
It's not it has nothing to do with David.
It's just Bowie. Yeah.
So I live outside of Annapolis and I am married to Melissa,
who I've been married to.
We're coming on to our 18th year of being married and that's a long time.
Our marriage can vote, which is interesting.
That's that's a newfound awareness we got.
And I have five kids.
I have three boys and two girls, James and Josh, Jesse,
Juliana and Josie. Yeah.
We named them all.
You were those people kind of was an intentional.
It just happened the first two were an accident.
And then not the kids were an accident, the names were an accident to be clear.
Your children might have your kids are fighting out all kinds of things
if they listen to this show.
Yeah, they're they're like 35 feet away.
And what they're going to start therapy tomorrow.
No, so we named the first two with Jays.
And then we're like, well, a third one will be left out.
So we do the third one.
And then it was just done at that point.
So what's your age range?
What's your age range on the kiddos?
So James is 15.
Josh is 13, about to be 14.
I probably don't know all my kids names.
That's a really bad one.
You have five right for real hard to know all the ages.
And then what's bad is your kids are like, dad, how can you forget?
And it's like you you'll know eventually when in if you there's a lot of numbers
and dates to remember when you're our age, I get it.
Yeah. So there there is a there's an there's a note in my phone.
It's called important things.
And the only reason it exists is because I was standing
at the doctors with one of my kids.
Oh, that's that's pressure time.
His name, what's his birth?
And I was like, I don't know.
And she looked at me as if she was going to call CPS.
And I'm like, I have five and she was like, oh, you poor soul.
So then Mel made me on a list of everything on there.
So my youngest is six, my oldest is 15.
They're all stair step.
The first two are 17 months apart, then there's 19 months apart.
And then we took a little bit of a break.
And then Josie has brought up the rear end is putting us through our paces at a boy.
OK, so yeah, the youngest, the girl, she's in charge.
That's that's in charge.
Yeah, it does track. It does track.
That's our Molly. So pastored.
Yeah. Yeah. So you after it for like a lot of years,
I passed it for for pushing 10 years.
And my wife and I started a faith based nonprofit
event about three years ago called Revive, and we work primarily in dealing
with social justice issues, food and security issues.
And we host conversations around the city for people who are done
with church, but not done with God.
So we like to cultivate those conversations, which is gnarly
because we get into pop culture and politics and faith.
And you name it, we get into it super fun.
We do it in a bar. A lot of fun.
And I also work in a as a what's called
vibrant living person within a very large senior living company.
Which which is a new lot of my time.
Yeah, that's a new addition for you here recently, right?
It is a new addition.
I've been doing it about nine months and I really have learned to love
the kind of the older population, especially the older population involving
in memory care. Yeah.
I don't care how successful you are, how much money you have in the bank.
You're still lonely.
So being able to interact with these people on a regular basis
has been a lot of fun and super consistent with who I am.
Yes.
It's I tell people all the time, like pastoring and then working
within senior living, very similar.
Yeah. Yeah. That makes that makes it totally similar.
People in the church, what are people looking for?
They're looking for purpose, looking for value, looking for identity,
all that kind of stuff.
Senior living is looking for the same exact thing.
Yeah. Yeah, that's so great value identity.
Yeah. Awareness, that kind of stuff.
And I think so we live in.
Yeah. Go ahead.
Well, I was going to say, I think, you know, knowing you and in this role,
I thought the same thing too, when you shared like that's the direction you're going.
And I think
there's just that's a segment of our it's a segment of our society
that I think just continues to be.
They used to have a more defined role in in society.
The elderly did and that is that is changing.
And as I'm sure you've seen, I think this is some of the saddest things are,
especially when they are in any sort of assisted assisted care situation.
Basically, when family members who once saw them regularly now, just now don't.
And there's just can be a lack of a lack of family connection and care.
So you provide really, Andy, I would say
Caleb is really kind of the director of fun and experience.
Isn't that really I?
I may be a cruise boat director.
I see this is what I know.
This is what I this is what I imagined.
I think I am like I would say we're a cruise boat on land that doesn't go
anywhere because we just do like events after events after events.
And I think I am.
There's this one lady because I play I play music and stuff.
She's totally now just calls me Liberace and I don't know why.
Oh, this is my this and I
in the worst part is I answer to it.
Oh, OK. So yeah. All right.
Well, so I just accepted it.
Like I just accept as long as you know I've had a conversation about that,
I'm sure it's I looked at her one day.
I said, do you know what you're calling?
No, I think it's fun.
OK, good for you.
So really, you're kinda like here's what he is.
He's a youth pastor for older for older folks.
for old people. That's what it is.
Passer. Gosh, that's so cool.
Wow. It's full circle, really.
As long as you don't do like sleepovers and like lock-ins.
Lock-ins with the older folks now.
That's not I mean, that's memory care.
That's memory care. It's a lock-in all the time.
Oh, man.
Assisted living jokes.
That's what that's what we've gotten to now.
Hey, so.
So Caleb, one, one really, I mean,
and I just, Andy and I both consider it a great,
a great joy and treasure to have you as a friend and in our friendship.
We've obviously all shared many stories, life experiences, things like this.
And Andy and I, because we have this show, we can't help it.
Anytime we're having a conversation with a friend.
I, Andy, I'm sure you do this too.
And a good story is shared.
I just tuck it way back in the old portfolio of people.
We can bring on the show and that's what we did.
So Caleb and I were sitting at Applebee's one night in Florida
when you, where you weren't there.
I'm going to bring it up again.
You weren't there and Caleb shared this story with me and right.
And I said, we have to have you in the show.
And so I, I messaged him this last week or whatever and said,
Hey, will you come on the show?
Your, your time has come.
You said absolutely.
So can you start by telling me a little bit, you know,
wherever you want to start with this story, uh, if you want to start
at the Applebee's, no, not really, uh, but start wherever you want to
start with your story of recent things you've recently learned
about your family.
Yeah.
So I'm 40 and I don't look a day over 39, but I just want to
put that out there.
That's great because all of this information that I'm going to share
with you, I learned at 39.
That great.
Okay.
Good. Yeah.
So this is new stuff to me.
So long story short, uh, or long story long, it doesn't matter.
I was raised by two absolutely wonderful God fearing parents who I'm
one of five children.
They did the best that they could do.
I never once in a million years thought anything other than I got good
parents.
They're not perfect.
They're good parents.
They've been there for me my whole life.
I was very close with my father, all that kind of stuff.
And, uh, hey, my wife just joined.
Yeah.
She says, so I have a listen.
So I, um, like I said, raises my great parents of great siblings,
all that kind of stuff.
And, uh, but there's always been a little bit of a joke in my family.
So my parents had lifelong, and I tell you lifelong, I'm talking 40 plus
years, best friends and these best friends were always around.
They were always around.
So we were at every family function together, every fourth of July, every
birthday, endless pool parties, so much so that we, um, we had these moments
where you wouldn't be able to tell per se where the family lines start and
friendships start line.
You can't, the line was just blurred.
Everybody has those friends.
We have some friends in our life that way.
You just don't know where those lines are.
And, um, but it's always been a little bit of a joke that my mom and this
other person who we called Uncle Bill were very close.
I don't fault that.
I've been very close with a lot of people in my life.
It was very, very normal for me.
And, um, so one day, one day, my brother, who I deeply love, who's a
knucklehead, you guys would love to have him on the show.
Um, he goes and thinks it'd be funny because his joke's been going on
and he buys me an ancestry test.
So I'm like, he gives me one more and I'm like, screw it.
And I spit in the cup.
I send it away.
And, uh, didn't think much about it.
In fact, in fact, Joe, we were out, I was out in Indiana when the, when
the results were being processed.
Yes.
Cause we were, we were sitting, we were sitting around a fire and I was
like, Hey guys, by the way, there may be a chance DNA test.
I'm recalling and you and Tyler and a couple other people and we're like,
yeah, it's about a bunch of you were there and it was like, Oh, do tell
how this ends up because there's always been this, like this joke in the
family, so much for Bill, my dad died four years.
Bill died.
My dad died going on five years ago.
Bill, Bill died two and a half years ago.
And, uh, so I officiated at their funerals, I officiated Bill's funeral,
officially my dad's funeral.
And I remember, I actually, I went back and I listened to the men's like,
you know, funeral homes, they record everything now and then you can go
back on their website and listen.
So I went and I listened and I had a very challenging time getting
through it.
And in fact, I said these words and I quote, I buried my dad four years
ago and this is just as hard.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I didn't, I didn't know why I didn't know why, but I feel like on
some subconscious level, there was a why.
There was something going on there.
So, um, I'm sitting at the pool poolside, uh, last, last summer and, uh,
just scrolling my email, a bunch of people from Reviver there, we just
got done grilling and, um, the way, I don't know if you guys have done
an ancestry test.
I have.
They're a lot of fun.
Yeah.
So you, you just get an email and in that email, you have a breakdown
of like where you're from and your breakdown, like national
stuff and all that kind of stuff and what were parts of the world, but
then at the bottom of it, in your field of view, you have thumbnails
of anyone else who has taken an ancestry test.
If you've matched them, your cousin, whatever, that kind of stuff.
And I look at it and my sister who I was raised with this harmony half
sister and directly next to that is two other sisters that I have.
Sisters that I didn't know were sisters that I've been, I've known them
my whole life and I see their picture and it says half sister.
And at that point, I said a whole bunch of things out loud in my mouth
that I probably shouldn't.
I was just like, and like people who, people who like love me like,
what is wrong with you?
I'm like, I just found this out.
I think Bill's my daddy.
And, um, that's exactly what I said, actually.
And so they come up that I have a different father.
So I had to like deal with that.
Like I'd make, I made phone calls and things like that.
But the weird part is I never went to like, and I haven't even yet to
this day and never went to a spot of anger or that kind of stuff.
Do I have questions?
Absolutely.
But I wasn't like, oh, I've been my whole life.
My whole life's a lie or I just never, it never came out that way.
I did get in the car and my first stop the next morning, I drove to Bill.
So this person I just found as my dad, I drove to his grave.
And I feel like I needed to do that because I was the one there
officiating his funeral.
So he went into the ground.
I had one set of knowledge and I needed to go back there by myself
and like have some level of closure or some level of just like
awareness of the situation.
And then Mel and I drove to my mom's and I walked in the door
and sat down on her little Alderman in her house and said,
I took an ancestry test and this is what it is.
And fully with sitting there waiting for like excuses or all
this kind of stuff and she just looked at me and went, that happened.
Like it happened, like totally owned it.
And like, what do you do with that?
Right.
Like that level of on it like and you have to immediately go to
a place of like grace and empathy and all that kind of stuff
because usually typically you don't get that in life.
Yeah, yeah, you know, and it's all we make so many decisions
laced in shame and all this kind of stuff that we don't often
just have those raw honest things.
But I did ask and I was like, I didn't get like, why didn't we tell
like if you knew this may happen and it came out as like and I have
understanding for now.
It's like, did we kind of know?
Yes.
Did we have hard fact evidence 40 years ago?
No.
Well, but now that we do absolutely happen.
Wow.
And and really nothing has nothing is like changed of anything.
I've gone to a spot where I am like weirdly grateful.
I say this in the weirdest way like weirdly grateful that not
many people can say that when they in this situation when they
find out like parents stuff or that kind of stuff.
It's either somebody was there or somebody wasn't there.
And I somehow got 37 years of both of these men in my life.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Like they were there.
They were there for birthdays.
They were there for Christmases.
They were there for Super Bowl parties.
They were present.
And they knew and that's the part that so they knew.
So the guy that you're the guy that you grew up thinking, you
know, was your dad.
He knew along.
Okay, gotcha.
Yeah.
So I asked my mom into it.
I said, obviously you guys knew something had happened and she
said yes, she went and talked to him about it.
And if it's hard to explain this if you don't know my dad,
my dad always had a really rough childhood.
So like conflict was not his bag.
So like he didn't take on fights.
He should have taken on like he just chose peace.
Even even when it caused a lot of things to be like bottled up
and suppressed and pushed down.
He was just like, I'm not fighting.
We were kids.
We'd get an argument.
He just burst in the room and be like, no arguing.
Not like, what are you arguing about?
Maybe there's a real problem.
He was just like arguing bad, not doing it.
So that was his personality.
And so when mom went to him and said, hey, this may have happened.
Yeah, obviously they're living could be either with one.
He was just like, we're never talking about this again.
That's my son.
That's enough.
And he just never treated me any different.
Which I mean, good on him.
Yeah, like good on him.
Fricking good on him.
Yeah, like wow.
The fact that you never had like, I think that's that's amazing.
Like as a father, you're just like, like that he was able to approach you
and treat you just like any of the other other kids and that you had no
like experiential as far as like your experience with him.
You were none the wiser.
Right.
Not one second.
Yeah.
Of my life.
Well, and I imagine and here's the thing.
I was saying, I mean, that can go multiple ways too.
Because I mean, he could have also been super mad at your mom.
And so that could have affected their relationship.
But as far as you know, that that didn't affect like their relationship.
I mean, they probably had some pretty rough, rough conversations.
I would guess, but right.
This is the part that gets me and that I have a lot of empathy for it now
more than ever, I think.
So this is 1983.
So it's like, no, it's probably like mid 1982.
Cause I was born in 83, February 83.
They're in the height of like the evangelical church movement.
Add an assembly at a Baptist church.
Bill and Cheryl are at a Baptist church.
They each have four kids.
Each.
There was no grace for any of this.
Yeah.
It literally would have blown families apart.
Like literally blown it apart.
So I am, I'm grateful that the four of them figured it out
and held their families together.
Yeah.
There's barely any grace for that now.
Yeah.
Then it was just like you, whatever, harlot or whatever the word is.
Yeah.
Like it was just, it was nothing.
Yeah.
So I'm glad they didn't have to go through that.
Yeah.
As we've had to count other conversations with, with folks who've,
there was some sort of family relational dynamic, you know,
they kind of overlaps with what you're saying.
We've, but again, back in days, days gone by, I think that,
that's one emerging theme that I've heard again and again.
It's just like, you know, there was no place for that kind of conversation.
There was no way to navigate that because it was socially,
yeah, there wasn't, there was, there weren't the structures of even of,
how do you, how do you come back from that?
How do you, you know, how, how do you have a life that is still,
that's, you know, together and united and, and all of that.
So they, so, okay.
So these, your, your parents and, and this, this other, this other couple,
this other couple, I mean, they just, they just continued on in the same,
like from your experience, like their relationship as two
couples that were spending time together and whatever, just continued on.
For my entire life.
Like, I, if, if we, if I was around, I, I, for real, I can tell you, dude,
I, if I spent one time a week in a restaurant with the four of them,
that's conservative.
Okay.
My whole life.
Like, so one of them, so my, so my biological father's gone now.
But I will go to his wife's 80th birthday next week.
So I'm still friends.
Their family is still friends.
Do you think that, that part of that was maybe also, I mean, obviously,
they were good friends before that.
But you think part of that was because also he wanted to stay in your life
and, and continue to, to follow you without necessarily following you.
So one of the things that, that's a, that's a, that's a deep and great question.
One of the things that I referenced when I went back and I listened to the
message that I spoke at his funeral.
And I said these words, Bill was a very quiet man.
Didn't talk very much.
But I said, I spent thousands of hours sitting on a front porch swing
with this man and him never saying anything.
And I do think that he was just present in my life because he wanted to be
and knew that probably the, the depth of information and awareness
was never going to be fully there.
So just stayed close.
And I look at that as like gift.
Like, of course, like I would have done the same thing.
Like, like, and it's weird.
Like when I look at pictures, like I look like him.
And now that you know that.
Yeah.
My brother doesn't look like it's like, yeah.
So like, I do think it was intentional.
And I wonder, I mean, everything everybody's got to go through.
I wonder, I mean, everything everybody's got skeletons and closets.
You're not married for 40, 50, 55 years.
And you didn't have some really rough years.
Nobody.
I mean, I've been married 18 years.
We've had some rough years.
Right.
I mean, did you go like yet?
That's going to happen.
So I'm just wondering if there was just like a communal like grace for each other
like amongst the four of them going, I was in a rough patch then you're going to be
in a rough patch then like almost an understanding of it.
And then things happen, you know, not justifying the behavior.
But I'm also somebody said some of the me I want.
They were like, well, don't you wish this didn't happen?
And I was like, no, me wishing this doesn't happen wishes me out of existence.
Right.
My five children.
My five children out of.
Yeah.
Wow.
It didn't happen.
I'm thrilled it happened because I get to live.
Yeah.
What's such a great example?
I have one.
Go ahead.
Sorry.
I was going to say there's only one regret I have.
I if I had one regret, I wish that after my dad died, I wish that somebody who knew
more than I knew this is before like I took the the ancestry test or anything like that
would have said, Hey, dude, there may be a possibility because I feel like I would have, I would have
been more intentional on those next two years than I was.
So that's the only thing that if I had said, man, I wish it would have gone a different
way.
That's the only one I have.
I don't wish my child who is different.
I don't wish the relationships were different.
I wish that last two years after my dad was gone.
I would have, I would have had more information because I would have, I probably would have
been a fair bit more intentional about stewarding that relationship.
Yeah.
And you know, it's always hindsight is always 2020 and it's like, you know, I think it's
something that we all like you try to think about, you know, now like, you know, I know
for like, I know for me, like, so my like, my dad's, my dad's retiring this coming here
at the end of the spring and it is going to enter in kind of a different season of life.
And you know, my dad's good, but I will say like in the back of my mind, I am thinking
like, okay, it feels like there's a new, a new chapter of, there can be some new chapters
of intentionality now as, you know, he has time freed up and, and obviously like my time,
my time is as, as, as full as ever, but figuring out like how I can continue to like involve,
involve my dad, you know, even, even, even more when I hear stories like yours, it's
like it just keeps on coming back to it's, it's strange like how we find ourselves distance
from our parents in, in, in like, like, it can feel like a challenge, depending on your
family, it can feel like a challenge to like work our parents as they get older, like into
the regular rhythm of our life, um, some, somehow, and I think it's totally understand
what I'm saying and I don't know, I think, uh, you know, as you're saying this, the thing
that just comes to my mind is like, hmm, figure that out, like, you know, some way, uh, you
know, the way I've met the way I've managed and Andy, you might be able to relate to this
the way I've managed to work my parents continually into our life is to have them care for our
children. I mean, everyone's looking for value. Yeah, that's right. Everyone's looking for
value. Yeah, we're super. And the same thing for my in-laws too, like, we're super fortunate
that they're nearby and that in the hustle and bustle that they, uh, that they want to
hang out with our kids, which is super great. But yeah, uh, man, that's, uh, it's a good,
it's, I think that's important though. It's important to like, for you guys to be having
that conversation because I, because I was the last of five, I was younger. So my sister
is, though I'm 40, my sister's 50. So there's a 10 year spread. Are you, are your parents
all living? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a really hard thing. Like they die. Like they
do. And like now experience that twice. Like I'm both Bill and my dad gone. Um, yeah, you,
you do like gotta be intentional because the day comes, it creeps up on you quicker than
you think. And then it's like, especially I don't know where you are in your birth orders.
If you guys are older or younger and that kind of stuff and age of your folks and stuff.
But like, I was like surprised that I was in my, I was in my mid 30s, bearing my father.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was a, like, I remember that feeling going, Jolie, my sister,
she got 10 more years than I got. That's interesting. Yeah. And that kind of, and I'm spoken, then
that sounds just like a baby child. Like I didn't get my first year. You jerks. You jerks.
It's so consistent with the birth order stuff. But I did feel that way. I'm like, you got
10 extra years. Yeah. Yeah. So you as a father now, I've, the question is always for us,
like when you've been on, you've been on this journey, you're still processing things. I'm,
I'm sure, I'm sure these thoughts come to you. Like I'm sure there are a number, a numerous
daily or weekly scenarios in which you're doing something and then this, like this comes back,
this comes to your mind on a regular. I'm, I'm sure of that. Very regular. What is you
and like, as you and Mel have, have talked through this many times and like, what do
you feel like the, the further impact on your own parenting is? Like what, what, what would
have been some of the takeaways for you guys? And I know that not everything is like directly
trained. Like you're always, you know, you know, it's like as the teacher, you're always
trying to like figure out like, okay, what are the teaching principles out of this that
we can, we can apply in, but it's not always a clear, like A to B, you know, track, but
it, how is it formed? How is it formed? Do you like, how is it, how is it impacted your
relationship with your wife, with your kids? Like, what do you think? Like, what do you
feel like the process has been like there on that, on that side?
That's good. So as far as like my kids, I did make an intentional decision that I would
share the details of this as they aged appropriately. Because, yes, my father may not have been
my biological father, but he is their grandfather and was wildly in love with them. And I don't
want them to ever question any of that. Right. Like none of that. So my older boys are well
aware of the situation. I told them very early on, my younger bits and pieces as they get
older, I will continue to kind of bring them in as, as they can process this as they, you
know, can understand. I mean, if I told my youngest about this, then I have to start
talking about babies and where they come from. It's like a whole thing. It's a whole thing,
which I probably should be doing anyhow. But yeah, somebody wants to do that. But so that's
a, that's a whole thing. I think as far as like how, for Mel and I, I don't really know
how much this is like affected us as much as kind of almost like, well, yeah, that checks
out. Interesting. Like more, more so like, I see that. You know, you do look like them.
You do are you are a completely different personality than my brother. My brother's
a carbon copy of my dad. It makes sense why I'm a different person. Like I'm literally
different. Yeah. So I think those kind of things have like begin to come and come into
the light of going, Oh, that's why. Oh, you're not shy. You're just quiet around strangers.
You know, there's nothing wrong with you. Like, well, my biological father was insanely
quiet around strangers. Like he never talked. I probably heard him say 500 words in my life.
And he just, so he's just always there, but never talk. So that kind of stuff, I feel
like it's kind of been more of just like, Oh, that checks out. No, that checks out.
That makes sense. Gotcha. That's that's been helpful. I don't think it's really like driven
us like a part or together any kind of way more so like, Yeah. Yeah. I think it's been,
it's been hard. I think on my mom that I know that that dynamic has been challenging. I
think she really wanted me to if I think I know she didn't because she kept asking me
over and over again, like she wanted me to be mad. And I think it's probably because
of the level of guilt that she'd carried for so many years to convince herself he deserves
to be mad. And so she would keep, she kept asking me repeatedly, Why aren't you mad?
Why aren't you upset? And I'm like, I'm not because I'm grateful that I'm a person and
I'm here and all that kind of stuff. So I think there's been, there's probably been
some emotional energy that is that maybe as Mel and I have expended just kind of dealing
with that aspect of it, of helping her realize we're not mad at you. We're not upset. We're
not awkward. We're not none of these things are happening. Those are conversations we
didn't have to have a year ago. Yeah. So then that part is that a little bit of a kind
of a drain, but also understand it, understand why she would feel that way. Yeah. I think
just hit me and get it over with kind of thing, you know, right? Well, I think too, as an
adult, you can kind of see why she didn't want to necessarily tell you earlier, you
know, like as if it would have come out, you know, when, when you were 15 or 16, like
that probably you probably would have handled it a lot differently. But as an adult now,
you kind of under, you can understand why she wouldn't want to necessarily tell you
those things.
Yeah, I was having this conversation. I'm about to speak facts I don't know about, but
I like read something about like, like the development of especially the male brain
and like actually the, the inability to fully understand like consequences and risk and
things like that. No. Right. It's like, why are you at 18 years old, 18 year old, you'll
climb a ladder and then at 27, you're like, Oh, it's a long way down. Like what shifts?
Yeah. Yeah. Like the ability to like see the long term thing shifts. And you're right.
At 15 or 16, I probably wouldn't have been able to be more mad now with that information.
Like physically probably couldn't even have comprehended it. Yeah. I just the, the grace
that has been extended to this situation, I think is immensely important. And I think
that's like what I hear is how powerful that that God's grace to you guys in the in the
midst of it and like that that was extended and the way that you've reciprocated that
I think has you just see the power of it to take what could be a situation wrought with
so many, so many landmines at every, at every direction for your immediate biological family
for any other family that was connected to this and the periphery, all of all of that.
How well, like Grace dismantles all of that. Like it just like, and yeah, and like, you
know, it just doesn't like, there's no like, I don't see the power of regret, anger, hatred,
bitterness and this and I say this would just with, with just the most love and respect
for you, Caleb, like the way that you have responded has given others the opportunity
to, to walk forward without, without shame or guilt. And I think it's just really, really
powerful, like in a world like as you said, like back in the day and other and other in
certain social contexts where it would have been like just the mirror on uncovering of
this would have just like ripped people apart. Yeah. This thing has actually brought people,
it's, it's brought people together and it's, and you're in, you guys are staying together
and that's really just really, really beautiful. I'm, I'm great. I'm grateful for that. And
I think anybody that's listening, I hope, I hope that you hear like honesty, met with
Grace and love can just start a whole series of really redeeming events come coming out
of it. If you'd like, whatever it is, I mean, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to
be the, the particularities of this, of this situation, which are, I mean, that's, you
know, it's, that's a thing that's a quite a, quite a scenario, right? But I mean, Caleb,
what would you like, because as you've experienced this and as I'm listening to you talk about
it, it just seems, I think that's one thing I'm just really caught by. I'm really, I'm
really struck by is it's kind of like you're waiting for this, maybe like your mom felt
and like you said, look with this guilt and like, why aren't you angry, whatever? Like
we're just waiting for this kind of like nuclear option, basically. And none of that happened.
And like, look, what is one left to conclude? Like what is one left to conclude other than
something pretty, pretty holy has, has, has happened there? Like kind of beyond explanation.
For me, it is, this is my like, first time, like head on, faced with it. Here it is. It's
your business. It's your story grappling with how I view Jesus in the upside down kingdom.
There you go. Yeah.
Like, this is upside down stuff. Like Jesus literally did it the other way. And to like,
I know that and I've experienced that with other people, but to like, have to like deal
with it yourself. And actually go, the only response is love and understanding and grace
and moving forward. Like that is the most paramount quality of it. It's like how many,
how many times did he look at somebody in their sin and was just like so rattled by
their sin? And he couldn't even move forward because he was so rattled by it. He just simply
loved them and offered a new perspective. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's crazy. Like, but I've
here, pastored all these years, 40 years old, I never had to like deal with it. Like, yeah,
it was always someone else's story. Right. Yeah.
But that thing came home to roost and I'm like, Oh, this is, this is me. This is people
I know I love I care about. And I'm getting offered a new response. Yep. So that's that's
my takeaway. It's like some upside down kingdom crap. Yeah. Supernatural. I mean, really,
I think that that's what that's what strikes me. There is. There is one really bad part
about it. And it's so my mother is from Charleston, West Virginia, where all my bloodline comes
from. And so the only thing worse than that is now my biological father, all his bloodline
comes from Beckley, West Virginia, which makes me 100% West Virginia. So the jokes they abound,
I'm sure they're deep, they're wide and they are true.
Your life's a John Denver song. My life is a John Denver song. Take me home, sweet country
roads. Oh, that's great. I am also like John Denver. I'm actually never was lived in West
Virginia. Yeah. Yeah. That's like from Colorado. Yeah, false, false advertising. Absolutely.
Caleb, man, thank you for just sharing that. Yeah, that's like that's yeah, I it was good.
It's the story. But then it's like, I think, you know, that core, that core realization
and what you've what you've learned from it. It's always it's always weird when the things
that we mentally ascent to in our life actually become like come home, like you said, come
home to Roos, become home to dwell in our own, our own situation and our own hearts.
And it is. And I think for all of us, I mean, that's what we that's what I desire for anybody
that that the life of truth and love are not just ideas that they're not just ideas that
we like, oh, we agree to in the way that we agree to any other kind of alleged fact in
our life, but rather that it that it takes up a whole residence in our in our heart. So
so good. Well, you know, because we can't end on a super deep and emotional topic, it
is in time. Yeah, we got to we got to finish in, I don't know, an upbeat manner. So yeah,
it's time for dudes and dads pop quiz. Oh, thank you. Oh, yeah. Where are we going with
this? All right. So if you have never joined us, the dudes and dads pop quiz is just a time
that we ask Caleb random questions and he has to answer. All right. So all right. I'm
going to take some from the deck this time. Oh, take a card. Any card? We'll just take
a whole half a deck. We actually have a deck that says the king of the pod decks, which
is a black card. And I was wondering what kind of deck that was in interview questions.
So actually, they're like tarot cards. We're just going to flip them and see. I'm kidding.
That's not true. Okay. Well, I'll go first. Caleb, what is left on your bucket list?
Yeah. Northern Lights. Desperately want to see the Northern Lights. And I want to Northern
Lights is it's really, really, really high on my list. And I'd like to go on a safari.
Oh, nice. Yeah. I've seen that. I know a lot of people have done it. I want to do that.
Yeah. That's good. Has your, has no, has your brother been on a safari? My brother's been
on more, probably more safaris than he can count. I would imagine. So this again, here
you are on a safari like he was on safari like last week in Tanzania. Well, here you
are yet again, living in the shadow of the elder of the elder. I know. I'm always in
the shadow of the elder. Oh, when do I get to go on a safari? Okay. Caleb, what's your
favorite gadget? Oh, favorite gadget is I really meld just got it. And I used it the
other day. It's like this mandolin thing in the kitchen that like shaves and cuts and
puts it all on. It's, it's handy. I don't know how to explain it, but you can cut up
a lot of stuff really, really fast, which is I love all handy. That's I love it. All
right. It's handy. It's the definition of handy. If you had someone following you around
all of the time, what would you have them do? I would have them just tell me where to
go next. Oh, that's good. Because I'm really good in the moment. And often I'm not very
good in the schedule. So just tell me to leave the room and go somewhere else. I'll just
do it. Very compliant. That's, that's great. Caleb, well, this could go, this could go
deep. Caleb, when you die, what do you want to be remembered for by raining on a light
note? I know, right? You should stop saying that. I tried so hard. I'd like to be known.
I know this is cliche, but I want to really like be remembered as someone who was a good
husband and a really good dad. That's why you're on the show. That's that's high. That's
high priority to me. Good. And I fail. I fail at both of those regularly, but it is important
to me. What do you value most in your friends? I value, I have a small subset of friends
that I don't have to, I don't have to change who I am at all. The good, bad, and the ugly.
I can cut up with them. I can have a good day with them. I can have a horrible day with
them and they're not going to view me differently. Or if they do view me differently, they're
going to tell me they view me differently. They're going to call my cards on it. I have
a small segment of those type of friends and those are the ones that I want to be around
the fireplace with. Caleb, what is what's the worst job that you've ever had? Oh, worst
job. The only job I actually got fired from. Oh, well, that tell us more. Please tell do
tell. Yeah. So I was all through high school. I would be really cool to work for Starbucks
because it was all trendy. And remember earlier, I said, I need someone to tell me what to
do because I just talked to people and lose track of things. I'm sucked. And hours are
horrible. And this really nice guy came in and we were chatting one night and I made
him a drink and I was like, don't worry about it. And he was like, Hey, have a great night.
And then the next morning I came to work and I got fired because he was a secret shopper.
Oh, apparently they take a dim view of that. Well, that feels like that feels like entrapment
quite honestly. It does. You know what though, Joel? My Starbucks story is actually more
embarrassing. I don't know about more embarrassing, but it's embarrassing. So one time we're driving
through the drive-thru and my wife is sitting in the car with me. So Julie's next to me
and I, the guy hands me my drink out the window. And before I pull off, I said, thanks. I love
you. Bye. And then pulled off, not even thinking about it. And my wife was like, did you just
tell him that you loved him? And I'm like, Oh my goodness, I did. So have you ever said
amen at the end of a voicemail? I don't think I have. I've done that. All right. Give me
a call when he gets my amen. All right. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Do you have another question?
My last question and you can ask your last one. What is one bad habit that you are trying
to get rid of? Um, I probably cuss more than I should. That's fair. Yeah. But I like how
he's like, yeah, I think I might be trying to get, I think I might be trying to stop.
Do I really want to stop? That's my, that's my question. I also believe, I also believe
that sometimes profanity is where the brain goes to take a break. That's, um, like I'm
trying like every once in a while, I'll say something in front of the kids and I was like,
dude, I'm like, I've totally, totally forgot. Uh, oh, that's right. We have the beat button.
Not that we have to use it often on the show, but the fact that the indie program that in,
it's like he's anticipating the day that I go nuclear and just like, like something
comes off the rails. I don't know. Uh, oh my gosh. Caleb, my last question for you is,
what are you currently curious about? Um, I am, uh, currently curious about. This is
gonna be weird. Um, we have a lot of friends who are in a lot of different relationships
like conventional, unconventional, that kind of stuff. And I am curious at times, um, what
other, like how that works. Yeah. Because like we grow up in this idea, it's like you,
the only way to have a relationship is to be married and be married really young with
no money and all this kind of stuff and then develop your life together. And like, and
I see people who chose different paths and they're for all intents and purposes happy
and experiencing love and connection, all that kind of stuff. And I'm curious and like,
how did that happen? Yeah. More like relationships, styles and things like that.
Sure. Yeah. Well, you successfully pass. What way to go Caleb? We'd have nailed that
pop just like, yes, it was a high pressure situation. But Caleb, thank you again for
being on the show. Thanks for joining us, sharing your story. And, uh, we're, uh, we're
just, we're delighted to have you as a friend. I think I can, I think I can say that, uh,
without hesitation, I think it's the 600 miles between our places. It's too long. It is.
It is too long. And I'm going to put this, here's the deal. Just in case Jackie, my wife
does is listening currently or we'll listen in the future. Offer stands. I just thank
you. You beat me to it. I offer stand every break, fall or spring break. I, I try my best.
I go, you know, I hear Annapolis is beautiful this time of year. That's what I go. That's
what I go to. That's what I go to. So we're going to, we will come in. We will come and
visit you for sure. Okay. Well, hey, as always guys, you can send your emails over to dudes
and dads podcast at gmail.com or our voicemail number. We like those voicemails five seven
four two one three eighty seven zero two and you can head over to dudes and dads podcast
dot com for all the show notes, all the goodies. Um, maybe you want to, I don't know, connect
with Caleb. We'll, we'll put it. We'll blast the socials up on there. We'll, we'll make
him connectable because you need to know someone like him out in, out in Bowie, Maryland.
You need to go to a place to go. You have a place to go during vacation. Yeah. If you
need a place to go on vacation, guys, we're super grateful for you listening and tuning
in. Thanks for hanging out with us. And until next time, we wish you grace and peace. Be
sure to share the podcast on your favorite social media channels.