1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,200 I'm this episode of the Dudes and Dads podcast. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:04,920 We talk with our good friend Caleb K. 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,760 You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast, 4 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:14,400 a show dedicated to helping men be better dudes and dads 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,440 by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling. 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,400 And now here are your hosts, Joel Damana and Andy Lane. 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,360 Andrew, Joel, you can't even get it right. 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,040 Guys, that's what happens. 9 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:28,280 Welcome back to our studio. 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,680 The last time you're like you I was in a hotel room and I left you alone. 11 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,360 You left me for, I don't know what, but you left me. 12 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,120 Yeah, I had work. I had the work you work stuff. Yeah. 13 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,040 Oh, gosh, what a day it's been here, Andy. 14 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,280 How are things with you? You good? 15 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,640 I'm good. I mean, it's been sunny and not sunny for a few days. 16 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,440 And I like it's been we were just talking about this before we started. 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,320 It's been a brutal early, early. 18 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,200 We'll call it fake spring. Oh, yeah, it's it's been terrible. 19 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:01,920 It's been terrible and we're waiting. 20 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:03,920 We're as we're entering the month of May. 21 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,280 We are looking to actually see sunshine. 22 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,160 See, I don't be greedy here, Andy, but let's just say 23 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,560 let's let's just try for some 60 degree weather. How about that? 24 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,840 I'm cool. I'm not asking for miracles. 25 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,640 Just no frost. That'd be nice. 26 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,160 Yeah, frost. Yeah. 27 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,840 It is funny on my wife's side of the family. 28 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,760 We have cousins that live up in North Central Wisconsin. 29 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,000 They've got a good foot of snow on the ground. Geez, geez. 30 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,120 Whenever it's bad, whenever it's bad, 31 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,280 and I feel like I should get all kinds of grumpy. 32 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,080 I just say at least I don't live in Rhinelander, Wisconsin. 33 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,400 That's what I say. 34 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:49,280 Well, Andy, we we want to begin the show, obviously, 35 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,560 just by, as always, thanking our good, our good supporters, 36 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:58,520 all the people over at over at the page, the Patriots, the Patriots, the people. 37 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,720 You guys help keep this show on the road, on the road, a float. 38 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:04,920 There we go. 39 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,800 Financially viable. Yes. Yes. 40 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,640 So you keep us going and we love that. 41 00:02:10,640 --> 00:02:12,640 So thank you. Yeah. 42 00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:15,040 As always, you can head over to dudes and dads pop. 43 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:16,640 Why do you keep saying pop? 44 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:19,040 Yeah, pop. I'm on the pop quiz that comes at the end. 45 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:25,520 You can head over to the dudes and dads podcast dot com slash support. 46 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:27,440 Yes. And that will get you over to a patron. 47 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,360 You sound like it feels like we haven't done this show in forever. 48 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,040 Yeah, it's a little it's a little guys. 49 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,760 We're going to get all the bugs out right here at the beginning. 50 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,680 It's going to go smoothly as soon as soon as our guest comes on. 51 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,800 So we do have without further ado, without further ado. 52 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,000 We want to bring Caleb on. 53 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,160 Caleb, welcome to the show. 54 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:45,920 It's good. Good to have you here. 55 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:48,720 Here. Thank you. Thank you. 56 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:49,520 Oh, there we go. 57 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,800 Glad to be here. Oh, Caleb. 58 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,000 That's so kind of you. 59 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,800 Oh, Caleb. 60 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,480 You know, we really try to put on a profession. 61 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,000 Yeah, you calm down. 62 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,000 We really try to put a professional show on here, 63 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,680 and it does feel like I'm getting back on a on a on a rowdy horse. 64 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,520 If we can say that it feels like he's got a rowdy one. 65 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,000 If you will flustered, you're like, oh, Caleb's on tonight. 66 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:12,800 Yeah. Yeah. 67 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,320 Well, Caleb, so Caleb's Caleb is a good dear friend of both. 68 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,160 And yeah, we've Caleb, it's been, I don't know. 69 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,760 We've probably about five years ago that we've met now, I guess. 70 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,920 And I'm going to brag a little bit. 71 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:26,840 I got to hang out with Caleb. 72 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,520 Be since, you know, yes, quicker than you have. 73 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,840 I mean, I hang out with him in February, physically back in February 74 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,800 and in the Florida in the warm, still salty about it. 75 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,840 Yeah, absolutely. In the warm weather. 76 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,960 And yes, remember that time we were in Florida and didn't come? 77 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:44,800 Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for. 78 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:45,560 We remember it. 79 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:46,440 Yeah. Really rough. 80 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:47,280 Caleb and I hung out. 81 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:48,240 Thanks for bringing it up. 82 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:49,880 So glad you guys could do that. 83 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,840 Yeah. So Caleb's a good friend. 84 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:54,720 Caleb's got another. 85 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,720 I just see Caleb is one of our many friends who has 86 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,120 just a really great story that we're in. 87 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,640 And great, interesting, challenging story. 88 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,240 I there's probably a lot of adjectives we can throw on there and unique, 89 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,000 if you will, unique, if you will. 90 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,720 But Caleb was, we always like to start off with so we can just get to know you 91 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,800 a little bit better, have our have our listeners kind of know what you're all 92 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,600 about. We always like to start with what we call the dad stat. 93 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:25,480 So tell us about you, what you do, who you're married to, who your kids are, 94 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,160 how old they are, maybe all of us, all the things and even some things 95 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,160 you want to share with them that would be potentially embarrassing. 96 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:34,040 That's that's fine, too. 97 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,200 This is really your chance to really just put it all out there. 98 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:38,360 Whatever, whatever you'd like to. 99 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,520 But yeah, please introduce us to you. 100 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:44,840 All right. Well, I am me. 101 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:47,880 I'm Caleb and I live in Annapolis, Maryland. 102 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,360 Well, I live outside of Annapolis, but if I tell you I live in Bowie, 103 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:51,520 nobody knows where that is. 104 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,520 I had to look it up. I did have to look it up. 105 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:54,520 I had to. Yeah. 106 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,000 It's not it has nothing to do with David. 107 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,720 It's just Bowie. Yeah. 108 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,440 So I live outside of Annapolis and I am married to Melissa, 109 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:04,640 who I've been married to. 110 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:09,360 We're coming on to our 18th year of being married and that's a long time. 111 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,320 Our marriage can vote, which is interesting. 112 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,040 That's that's a newfound awareness we got. 113 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,000 And I have five kids. 114 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,320 I have three boys and two girls, James and Josh, Jesse, 115 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,760 Juliana and Josie. Yeah. 116 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:25,760 We named them all. 117 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,400 You were those people kind of was an intentional. 118 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,480 It just happened the first two were an accident. 119 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,320 And then not the kids were an accident, the names were an accident to be clear. 120 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,000 Your children might have your kids are fighting out all kinds of things 121 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:38,040 if they listen to this show. 122 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,720 Yeah, they're they're like 35 feet away. 123 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:47,600 And what they're going to start therapy tomorrow. 124 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,560 No, so we named the first two with Jays. 125 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,040 And then we're like, well, a third one will be left out. 126 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:52,880 So we do the third one. 127 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,480 And then it was just done at that point. 128 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:55,720 So what's your age range? 129 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,920 What's your age range on the kiddos? 130 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,360 So James is 15. 131 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,400 Josh is 13, about to be 14. 132 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,320 I probably don't know all my kids names. 133 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:08,200 That's a really bad one. 134 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,400 You have five right for real hard to know all the ages. 135 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,760 And then what's bad is your kids are like, dad, how can you forget? 136 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,360 And it's like you you'll know eventually when in if you there's a lot of numbers 137 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,480 and dates to remember when you're our age, I get it. 138 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,680 Yeah. So there there is a there's an there's a note in my phone. 139 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,280 It's called important things. 140 00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:30,120 And the only reason it exists is because I was standing 141 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,920 at the doctors with one of my kids. 142 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:33,240 Oh, that's that's pressure time. 143 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:34,960 His name, what's his birth? 144 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,320 And I was like, I don't know. 145 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,040 And she looked at me as if she was going to call CPS. 146 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,760 And I'm like, I have five and she was like, oh, you poor soul. 147 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,360 So then Mel made me on a list of everything on there. 148 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,280 So my youngest is six, my oldest is 15. 149 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:50,320 They're all stair step. 150 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,680 The first two are 17 months apart, then there's 19 months apart. 151 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,240 And then we took a little bit of a break. 152 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:00,760 And then Josie has brought up the rear end is putting us through our paces at a boy. 153 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,040 OK, so yeah, the youngest, the girl, she's in charge. 154 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,440 That's that's in charge. 155 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,000 Yeah, it does track. It does track. 156 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,000 That's our Molly. So pastored. 157 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,440 Yeah. Yeah. So you after it for like a lot of years, 158 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,840 I passed it for for pushing 10 years. 159 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,040 And my wife and I started a faith based nonprofit 160 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:29,040 event about three years ago called Revive, and we work primarily in dealing 161 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,520 with social justice issues, food and security issues. 162 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,880 And we host conversations around the city for people who are done 163 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,960 with church, but not done with God. 164 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,160 So we like to cultivate those conversations, which is gnarly 165 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,400 because we get into pop culture and politics and faith. 166 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,520 And you name it, we get into it super fun. 167 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,520 We do it in a bar. A lot of fun. 168 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,600 And I also work in a as a what's called 169 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,680 vibrant living person within a very large senior living company. 170 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,920 Which which is a new lot of my time. 171 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,160 Yeah, that's a new addition for you here recently, right? 172 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:08,240 It is a new addition. 173 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,680 I've been doing it about nine months and I really have learned to love 174 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,920 the kind of the older population, especially the older population involving 175 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,160 in memory care. Yeah. 176 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,040 I don't care how successful you are, how much money you have in the bank. 177 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:22,560 You're still lonely. 178 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,320 So being able to interact with these people on a regular basis 179 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,560 has been a lot of fun and super consistent with who I am. 180 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:29,760 Yes. 181 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,880 It's I tell people all the time, like pastoring and then working 182 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,280 within senior living, very similar. 183 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,520 Yeah. Yeah. That makes that makes it totally similar. 184 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:40,960 People in the church, what are people looking for? 185 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,320 They're looking for purpose, looking for value, looking for identity, 186 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,560 all that kind of stuff. 187 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:47,680 Senior living is looking for the same exact thing. 188 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,720 Yeah. Yeah, that's so great value identity. 189 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,680 Yeah. Awareness, that kind of stuff. 190 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:54,840 And I think so we live in. 191 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:55,880 Yeah. Go ahead. 192 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,760 Well, I was going to say, I think, you know, knowing you and in this role, 193 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,600 I thought the same thing too, when you shared like that's the direction you're going. 194 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,440 And I think 195 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,880 there's just that's a segment of our it's a segment of our society 196 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,640 that I think just continues to be. 197 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:19,280 They used to have a more defined role in in society. 198 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,320 The elderly did and that is that is changing. 199 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,080 And as I'm sure you've seen, I think this is some of the saddest things are, 200 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,240 especially when they are in any sort of assisted assisted care situation. 201 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,360 Basically, when family members who once saw them regularly now, just now don't. 202 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:40,200 And there's just can be a lack of a lack of family connection and care. 203 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:45,040 So you provide really, Andy, I would say 204 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:48,720 Caleb is really kind of the director of fun and experience. 205 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,760 Isn't that really I? 206 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,760 I may be a cruise boat director. 207 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:54,840 I see this is what I know. 208 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,320 This is what I this is what I imagined. 209 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:02,200 I think I am like I would say we're a cruise boat on land that doesn't go 210 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,840 anywhere because we just do like events after events after events. 211 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,240 And I think I am. 212 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,200 There's this one lady because I play I play music and stuff. 213 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,680 She's totally now just calls me Liberace and I don't know why. 214 00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:19,240 Oh, this is my this and I 215 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,400 in the worst part is I answer to it. 216 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,880 Oh, OK. So yeah. All right. 217 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,680 Well, so I just accepted it. 218 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:28,760 Like I just accept as long as you know I've had a conversation about that, 219 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,680 I'm sure it's I looked at her one day. 220 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:33,840 I said, do you know what you're calling? 221 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,440 No, I think it's fun. 222 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,280 OK, good for you. 223 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,880 So really, you're kinda like here's what he is. 224 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,360 He's a youth pastor for older for older folks. 225 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,360 for old people. That's what it is. 226 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,360 Passer. Gosh, that's so cool. 227 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:47,960 Wow. It's full circle, really. 228 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,060 As long as you don't do like sleepovers and like lock-ins. 229 00:10:51,060 --> 00:10:53,460 Lock-ins with the older folks now. 230 00:10:53,460 --> 00:10:55,460 That's not I mean, that's memory care. 231 00:10:55,460 --> 00:10:58,260 That's memory care. It's a lock-in all the time. 232 00:10:58,260 --> 00:10:59,160 Oh, man. 233 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,260 Assisted living jokes. 234 00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:01,960 That's what that's what we've gotten to now. 235 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,160 Hey, so. 236 00:11:04,460 --> 00:11:08,560 So Caleb, one, one really, I mean, 237 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:12,660 and I just, Andy and I both consider it a great, 238 00:11:12,660 --> 00:11:16,660 a great joy and treasure to have you as a friend and in our friendship. 239 00:11:16,660 --> 00:11:21,060 We've obviously all shared many stories, life experiences, things like this. 240 00:11:21,060 --> 00:11:26,060 And Andy and I, because we have this show, we can't help it. 241 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,160 Anytime we're having a conversation with a friend. 242 00:11:29,260 --> 00:11:31,260 I, Andy, I'm sure you do this too. 243 00:11:31,260 --> 00:11:33,460 And a good story is shared. 244 00:11:33,460 --> 00:11:37,860 I just tuck it way back in the old portfolio of people. 245 00:11:37,860 --> 00:11:40,460 We can bring on the show and that's what we did. 246 00:11:40,460 --> 00:11:44,160 So Caleb and I were sitting at Applebee's one night in Florida 247 00:11:44,260 --> 00:11:45,360 when you, where you weren't there. 248 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:46,160 I'm going to bring it up again. 249 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:51,260 You weren't there and Caleb shared this story with me and right. 250 00:11:51,260 --> 00:11:52,960 And I said, we have to have you in the show. 251 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,260 And so I, I messaged him this last week or whatever and said, 252 00:11:57,260 --> 00:11:58,560 Hey, will you come on the show? 253 00:11:58,560 --> 00:11:59,960 Your, your time has come. 254 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:00,760 You said absolutely. 255 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:05,460 So can you start by telling me a little bit, you know, 256 00:12:05,460 --> 00:12:08,560 wherever you want to start with this story, uh, if you want to start 257 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:12,560 at the Applebee's, no, not really, uh, but start wherever you want to 258 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:16,760 start with your story of recent things you've recently learned 259 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:17,960 about your family. 260 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:19,860 Yeah. 261 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:26,760 So I'm 40 and I don't look a day over 39, but I just want to 262 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:27,560 put that out there. 263 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:31,660 That's great because all of this information that I'm going to share 264 00:12:31,660 --> 00:12:33,260 with you, I learned at 39. 265 00:12:33,260 --> 00:12:33,760 That great. 266 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:34,060 Okay. 267 00:12:34,060 --> 00:12:35,860 Good. Yeah. 268 00:12:35,860 --> 00:12:37,460 So this is new stuff to me. 269 00:12:37,460 --> 00:12:41,560 So long story short, uh, or long story long, it doesn't matter. 270 00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:52,860 I was raised by two absolutely wonderful God fearing parents who I'm 271 00:12:52,860 --> 00:12:53,960 one of five children. 272 00:12:54,660 --> 00:12:56,660 They did the best that they could do. 273 00:12:56,860 --> 00:13:02,460 I never once in a million years thought anything other than I got good 274 00:13:02,460 --> 00:13:03,060 parents. 275 00:13:03,060 --> 00:13:04,660 They're not perfect. 276 00:13:04,660 --> 00:13:05,560 They're good parents. 277 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:07,360 They've been there for me my whole life. 278 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,360 I was very close with my father, all that kind of stuff. 279 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,160 And, uh, hey, my wife just joined. 280 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:12,460 Yeah. 281 00:13:12,460 --> 00:13:14,960 She says, so I have a listen. 282 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:21,260 So I, um, like I said, raises my great parents of great siblings, 283 00:13:21,260 --> 00:13:22,060 all that kind of stuff. 284 00:13:22,060 --> 00:13:29,560 And, uh, but there's always been a little bit of a joke in my family. 285 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:36,860 So my parents had lifelong, and I tell you lifelong, I'm talking 40 plus 286 00:13:36,860 --> 00:13:44,760 years, best friends and these best friends were always around. 287 00:13:44,860 --> 00:13:45,660 They were always around. 288 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:51,560 So we were at every family function together, every fourth of July, every 289 00:13:51,560 --> 00:14:01,660 birthday, endless pool parties, so much so that we, um, we had these moments 290 00:14:01,660 --> 00:14:06,360 where you wouldn't be able to tell per se where the family lines start and 291 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:07,260 friendships start line. 292 00:14:07,260 --> 00:14:08,760 You can't, the line was just blurred. 293 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:09,660 Everybody has those friends. 294 00:14:09,660 --> 00:14:11,060 We have some friends in our life that way. 295 00:14:11,060 --> 00:14:12,560 You just don't know where those lines are. 296 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:18,960 And, um, but it's always been a little bit of a joke that my mom and this 297 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,360 other person who we called Uncle Bill were very close. 298 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:25,060 I don't fault that. 299 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,160 I've been very close with a lot of people in my life. 300 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,360 It was very, very normal for me. 301 00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:38,160 And, um, so one day, one day, my brother, who I deeply love, who's a 302 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:39,960 knucklehead, you guys would love to have him on the show. 303 00:14:40,660 --> 00:14:45,460 Um, he goes and thinks it'd be funny because his joke's been going on 304 00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:48,960 and he buys me an ancestry test. 305 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,560 So I'm like, he gives me one more and I'm like, screw it. 306 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:52,160 And I spit in the cup. 307 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:52,760 I send it away. 308 00:14:53,260 --> 00:14:55,260 And, uh, didn't think much about it. 309 00:14:55,260 --> 00:14:58,860 In fact, in fact, Joe, we were out, I was out in Indiana when the, when 310 00:14:58,860 --> 00:15:01,060 the results were being processed. 311 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:01,960 Yes. 312 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:02,460 Yes. 313 00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:05,560 Cause we were, we were sitting, we were sitting around a fire and I was 314 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:10,360 like, Hey guys, by the way, there may be a chance DNA test. 315 00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:14,160 I'm recalling and you and Tyler and a couple other people and we're like, 316 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:19,760 yeah, it's about a bunch of you were there and it was like, Oh, do tell 317 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,560 how this ends up because there's always been this, like this joke in the 318 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,460 family, so much for Bill, my dad died four years. 319 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:28,360 Bill died. 320 00:15:28,460 --> 00:15:30,360 My dad died going on five years ago. 321 00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:32,260 Bill, Bill died two and a half years ago. 322 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,560 And, uh, so I officiated at their funerals, I officiated Bill's funeral, 323 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:37,560 officially my dad's funeral. 324 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:43,960 And I remember, I actually, I went back and I listened to the men's like, 325 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,660 you know, funeral homes, they record everything now and then you can go 326 00:15:46,660 --> 00:15:47,760 back on their website and listen. 327 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:53,860 So I went and I listened and I had a very challenging time getting 328 00:15:53,860 --> 00:15:54,360 through it. 329 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,960 And in fact, I said these words and I quote, I buried my dad four years 330 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,360 ago and this is just as hard. 331 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:00,060 Oh, wow. 332 00:16:00,060 --> 00:16:00,460 Yeah. 333 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,260 And I didn't, I didn't know why I didn't know why, but I feel like on 334 00:16:04,260 --> 00:16:06,460 some subconscious level, there was a why. 335 00:16:06,460 --> 00:16:07,860 There was something going on there. 336 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,660 So, um, I'm sitting at the pool poolside, uh, last, last summer and, uh, 337 00:16:13,660 --> 00:16:17,160 just scrolling my email, a bunch of people from Reviver there, we just 338 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,560 got done grilling and, um, the way, I don't know if you guys have done 339 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:21,660 an ancestry test. 340 00:16:21,660 --> 00:16:22,160 I have. 341 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:23,160 They're a lot of fun. 342 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:23,660 Yeah. 343 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:30,960 So you, you just get an email and in that email, you have a breakdown 344 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,360 of like where you're from and your breakdown, like national 345 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,360 stuff and all that kind of stuff and what were parts of the world, but 346 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:43,360 then at the bottom of it, in your field of view, you have thumbnails 347 00:16:43,860 --> 00:16:46,360 of anyone else who has taken an ancestry test. 348 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,360 If you've matched them, your cousin, whatever, that kind of stuff. 349 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:57,360 And I look at it and my sister who I was raised with this harmony half 350 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:04,360 sister and directly next to that is two other sisters that I have. 351 00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:07,960 Sisters that I didn't know were sisters that I've been, I've known them 352 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:13,560 my whole life and I see their picture and it says half sister. 353 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,760 And at that point, I said a whole bunch of things out loud in my mouth 354 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:20,760 that I probably shouldn't. 355 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,960 I was just like, and like people who, people who like love me like, 356 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:25,960 what is wrong with you? 357 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,760 I'm like, I just found this out. 358 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:29,160 I think Bill's my daddy. 359 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,560 And, um, that's exactly what I said, actually. 360 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,960 And so they come up that I have a different father. 361 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,960 So I had to like deal with that. 362 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,960 Like I'd make, I made phone calls and things like that. 363 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:49,160 But the weird part is I never went to like, and I haven't even yet to 364 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,960 this day and never went to a spot of anger or that kind of stuff. 365 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,160 Do I have questions? 366 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:56,360 Absolutely. 367 00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:59,960 But I wasn't like, oh, I've been my whole life. 368 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:03,960 My whole life's a lie or I just never, it never came out that way. 369 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:11,960 I did get in the car and my first stop the next morning, I drove to Bill. 370 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:15,360 So this person I just found as my dad, I drove to his grave. 371 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,360 And I feel like I needed to do that because I was the one there 372 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:22,760 officiating his funeral. 373 00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:24,960 So he went into the ground. 374 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,460 I had one set of knowledge and I needed to go back there by myself 375 00:18:29,460 --> 00:18:33,960 and like have some level of closure or some level of just like 376 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,560 awareness of the situation. 377 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:44,460 And then Mel and I drove to my mom's and I walked in the door 378 00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:47,760 and sat down on her little Alderman in her house and said, 379 00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:51,260 I took an ancestry test and this is what it is. 380 00:18:52,260 --> 00:18:57,560 And fully with sitting there waiting for like excuses or all 381 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,160 this kind of stuff and she just looked at me and went, that happened. 382 00:19:03,460 --> 00:19:05,760 Like it happened, like totally owned it. 383 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,860 And like, what do you do with that? 384 00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:09,960 Right. 385 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:16,260 Like that level of on it like and you have to immediately go to 386 00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:18,260 a place of like grace and empathy and all that kind of stuff 387 00:19:18,260 --> 00:19:20,060 because usually typically you don't get that in life. 388 00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:26,060 Yeah, yeah, you know, and it's all we make so many decisions 389 00:19:26,060 --> 00:19:29,260 laced in shame and all this kind of stuff that we don't often 390 00:19:29,260 --> 00:19:30,860 just have those raw honest things. 391 00:19:30,860 --> 00:19:34,760 But I did ask and I was like, I didn't get like, why didn't we tell 392 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:40,860 like if you knew this may happen and it came out as like and I have 393 00:19:40,860 --> 00:19:41,960 understanding for now. 394 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,860 It's like, did we kind of know? 395 00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:45,360 Yes. 396 00:19:47,060 --> 00:19:50,860 Did we have hard fact evidence 40 years ago? 397 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:51,660 No. 398 00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:57,260 Well, but now that we do absolutely happen. 399 00:19:57,860 --> 00:19:58,260 Wow. 400 00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:06,160 And and really nothing has nothing is like changed of anything. 401 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:13,160 I've gone to a spot where I am like weirdly grateful. 402 00:20:14,260 --> 00:20:19,260 I say this in the weirdest way like weirdly grateful that not 403 00:20:19,260 --> 00:20:23,260 many people can say that when they in this situation when they 404 00:20:23,260 --> 00:20:25,460 find out like parents stuff or that kind of stuff. 405 00:20:25,660 --> 00:20:29,060 It's either somebody was there or somebody wasn't there. 406 00:20:30,860 --> 00:20:38,960 And I somehow got 37 years of both of these men in my life. 407 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:39,960 Yeah, that's interesting. 408 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:40,860 Like they were there. 409 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:42,160 They were there for birthdays. 410 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:43,060 They were there for Christmases. 411 00:20:43,060 --> 00:20:44,360 They were there for Super Bowl parties. 412 00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:45,660 They were present. 413 00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:51,760 And they knew and that's the part that so they knew. 414 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,760 So the guy that you're the guy that you grew up thinking, you 415 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:56,760 know, was your dad. 416 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,160 He knew along. 417 00:20:59,260 --> 00:21:00,160 Okay, gotcha. 418 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:01,360 Yeah. 419 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:02,860 So I asked my mom into it. 420 00:21:02,860 --> 00:21:09,160 I said, obviously you guys knew something had happened and she 421 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,860 said yes, she went and talked to him about it. 422 00:21:12,860 --> 00:21:15,460 And if it's hard to explain this if you don't know my dad, 423 00:21:15,460 --> 00:21:18,760 my dad always had a really rough childhood. 424 00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:22,560 So like conflict was not his bag. 425 00:21:24,060 --> 00:21:25,760 So like he didn't take on fights. 426 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,760 He should have taken on like he just chose peace. 427 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,560 Even even when it caused a lot of things to be like bottled up 428 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,260 and suppressed and pushed down. 429 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:37,960 He was just like, I'm not fighting. 430 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:38,460 We were kids. 431 00:21:38,460 --> 00:21:39,260 We'd get an argument. 432 00:21:39,260 --> 00:21:41,360 He just burst in the room and be like, no arguing. 433 00:21:41,860 --> 00:21:43,660 Not like, what are you arguing about? 434 00:21:43,660 --> 00:21:45,160 Maybe there's a real problem. 435 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:46,860 He was just like arguing bad, not doing it. 436 00:21:47,660 --> 00:21:49,160 So that was his personality. 437 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:54,160 And so when mom went to him and said, hey, this may have happened. 438 00:21:54,660 --> 00:21:57,660 Yeah, obviously they're living could be either with one. 439 00:21:58,660 --> 00:22:01,160 He was just like, we're never talking about this again. 440 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:02,160 That's my son. 441 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:02,660 That's enough. 442 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,660 And he just never treated me any different. 443 00:22:09,660 --> 00:22:12,660 Which I mean, good on him. 444 00:22:12,660 --> 00:22:15,160 Yeah, like good on him. 445 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,160 Fricking good on him. 446 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,160 Yeah, like wow. 447 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,160 The fact that you never had like, I think that's that's amazing. 448 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,660 Like as a father, you're just like, like that he was able to approach you 449 00:22:27,660 --> 00:22:31,160 and treat you just like any of the other other kids and that you had no 450 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,660 like experiential as far as like your experience with him. 451 00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:35,660 You were none the wiser. 452 00:22:36,660 --> 00:22:37,160 Right. 453 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,660 Not one second. 454 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:39,660 Yeah. 455 00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:40,660 Of my life. 456 00:22:40,660 --> 00:22:43,660 Well, and I imagine and here's the thing. 457 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,660 I was saying, I mean, that can go multiple ways too. 458 00:22:47,660 --> 00:22:51,160 Because I mean, he could have also been super mad at your mom. 459 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,160 And so that could have affected their relationship. 460 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,660 But as far as you know, that that didn't affect like their relationship. 461 00:22:56,660 --> 00:22:59,160 I mean, they probably had some pretty rough, rough conversations. 462 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,160 I would guess, but right. 463 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,160 This is the part that gets me and that I have a lot of empathy for it now 464 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,660 more than ever, I think. 465 00:23:08,660 --> 00:23:11,160 So this is 1983. 466 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,160 So it's like, no, it's probably like mid 1982. 467 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,660 Cause I was born in 83, February 83. 468 00:23:19,660 --> 00:23:23,660 They're in the height of like the evangelical church movement. 469 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,160 Add an assembly at a Baptist church. 470 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,660 Bill and Cheryl are at a Baptist church. 471 00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:33,660 They each have four kids. 472 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:34,660 Each. 473 00:23:34,660 --> 00:23:35,660 Each. 474 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,660 There was no grace for any of this. 475 00:23:39,660 --> 00:23:40,660 Yeah. 476 00:23:40,660 --> 00:23:41,660 Yeah. 477 00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:45,660 It literally would have blown families apart. 478 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:48,660 Like literally blown it apart. 479 00:23:50,660 --> 00:23:54,660 So I am, I'm grateful that the four of them figured it out 480 00:23:55,660 --> 00:23:57,660 and held their families together. 481 00:23:57,660 --> 00:23:58,660 Yeah. 482 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,160 There's barely any grace for that now. 483 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,160 Yeah. 484 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:07,160 Then it was just like you, whatever, harlot or whatever the word is. 485 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,160 Yeah. 486 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,660 Like it was just, it was nothing. 487 00:24:09,660 --> 00:24:10,660 Yeah. 488 00:24:10,660 --> 00:24:12,660 So I'm glad they didn't have to go through that. 489 00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:14,660 Yeah. 490 00:24:14,660 --> 00:24:16,660 As we've had to count other conversations with, with folks who've, 491 00:24:17,660 --> 00:24:20,660 there was some sort of family relational dynamic, you know, 492 00:24:20,660 --> 00:24:22,660 they kind of overlaps with what you're saying. 493 00:24:22,660 --> 00:24:27,160 We've, but again, back in days, days gone by, I think that, 494 00:24:27,660 --> 00:24:30,160 that's one emerging theme that I've heard again and again. 495 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,160 It's just like, you know, there was no place for that kind of conversation. 496 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,160 There was no way to navigate that because it was socially, 497 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,660 yeah, there wasn't, there was, there weren't the structures of even of, 498 00:24:44,660 --> 00:24:47,160 how do you, how do you come back from that? 499 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,660 How do you, you know, how, how do you have a life that is still, 500 00:24:51,660 --> 00:24:55,660 that's, you know, together and united and, and all of that. 501 00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:57,160 So they, so, okay. 502 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:04,160 So these, your, your parents and, and this, this other, this other couple, 503 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,160 this other couple, I mean, they just, they just continued on in the same, 504 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,160 like from your experience, like their relationship as two 505 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,160 couples that were spending time together and whatever, just continued on. 506 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,660 For my entire life. 507 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:25,160 Like, I, if, if we, if I was around, I, I, for real, I can tell you, dude, 508 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:32,660 I, if I spent one time a week in a restaurant with the four of them, 509 00:25:33,660 --> 00:25:34,660 that's conservative. 510 00:25:34,660 --> 00:25:35,160 Okay. 511 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,160 My whole life. 512 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:43,660 Like, so one of them, so my, so my biological father's gone now. 513 00:25:45,660 --> 00:25:50,660 But I will go to his wife's 80th birthday next week. 514 00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:52,660 So I'm still friends. 515 00:25:52,660 --> 00:25:54,160 Their family is still friends. 516 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,660 Do you think that, that part of that was maybe also, I mean, obviously, 517 00:25:58,660 --> 00:26:00,660 they were good friends before that. 518 00:26:00,660 --> 00:26:04,660 But you think part of that was because also he wanted to stay in your life 519 00:26:04,660 --> 00:26:09,660 and, and continue to, to follow you without necessarily following you. 520 00:26:13,660 --> 00:26:18,660 So one of the things that, that's a, that's a, that's a deep and great question. 521 00:26:18,660 --> 00:26:23,660 One of the things that I referenced when I went back and I listened to the 522 00:26:23,660 --> 00:26:25,660 message that I spoke at his funeral. 523 00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:29,660 And I said these words, Bill was a very quiet man. 524 00:26:29,660 --> 00:26:30,660 Didn't talk very much. 525 00:26:31,660 --> 00:26:37,660 But I said, I spent thousands of hours sitting on a front porch swing 526 00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:41,660 with this man and him never saying anything. 527 00:26:41,660 --> 00:26:48,660 And I do think that he was just present in my life because he wanted to be 528 00:26:49,660 --> 00:26:55,660 and knew that probably the, the depth of information and awareness 529 00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:57,660 was never going to be fully there. 530 00:26:58,660 --> 00:27:01,660 So just stayed close. 531 00:27:03,660 --> 00:27:05,660 And I look at that as like gift. 532 00:27:05,660 --> 00:27:07,660 Like, of course, like I would have done the same thing. 533 00:27:07,660 --> 00:27:11,660 Like, like, and it's weird. 534 00:27:11,660 --> 00:27:13,660 Like when I look at pictures, like I look like him. 535 00:27:13,660 --> 00:27:15,660 And now that you know that. 536 00:27:15,660 --> 00:27:16,660 Yeah. 537 00:27:16,660 --> 00:27:20,660 My brother doesn't look like it's like, yeah. 538 00:27:20,660 --> 00:27:23,660 So like, I do think it was intentional. 539 00:27:24,660 --> 00:27:31,660 And I wonder, I mean, everything everybody's got to go through. 540 00:27:31,660 --> 00:27:38,660 I wonder, I mean, everything everybody's got skeletons and closets. 541 00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:42,660 You're not married for 40, 50, 55 years. 542 00:27:42,660 --> 00:27:44,660 And you didn't have some really rough years. 543 00:27:44,660 --> 00:27:45,660 Nobody. 544 00:27:46,660 --> 00:27:48,660 I mean, I've been married 18 years. 545 00:27:48,660 --> 00:27:49,660 We've had some rough years. 546 00:27:49,660 --> 00:27:50,660 Right. 547 00:27:50,660 --> 00:27:51,660 I mean, did you go like yet? 548 00:27:51,660 --> 00:27:53,660 That's going to happen. 549 00:27:53,660 --> 00:27:57,660 So I'm just wondering if there was just like a communal like grace for each other 550 00:27:57,660 --> 00:28:00,660 like amongst the four of them going, I was in a rough patch then you're going to be 551 00:28:00,660 --> 00:28:05,660 in a rough patch then like almost an understanding of it. 552 00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:10,660 And then things happen, you know, not justifying the behavior. 553 00:28:10,660 --> 00:28:13,660 But I'm also somebody said some of the me I want. 554 00:28:13,660 --> 00:28:15,660 They were like, well, don't you wish this didn't happen? 555 00:28:15,660 --> 00:28:22,660 And I was like, no, me wishing this doesn't happen wishes me out of existence. 556 00:28:22,660 --> 00:28:23,660 Right. 557 00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:24,660 Right. 558 00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:25,660 Right. 559 00:28:25,660 --> 00:28:26,660 My five children. 560 00:28:26,660 --> 00:28:27,660 My five children out of. 561 00:28:27,660 --> 00:28:28,660 Yeah. 562 00:28:28,660 --> 00:28:29,660 Wow. 563 00:28:29,660 --> 00:28:30,660 It didn't happen. 564 00:28:30,660 --> 00:28:33,660 I'm thrilled it happened because I get to live. 565 00:28:33,660 --> 00:28:34,660 Yeah. 566 00:28:34,660 --> 00:28:35,660 Yeah. 567 00:28:35,660 --> 00:28:37,660 What's such a great example? 568 00:28:37,660 --> 00:28:38,660 I have one. 569 00:28:38,660 --> 00:28:39,660 Go ahead. 570 00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:40,660 Sorry. 571 00:28:40,660 --> 00:28:41,660 I was going to say there's only one regret I have. 572 00:28:41,660 --> 00:28:51,660 I if I had one regret, I wish that after my dad died, I wish that somebody who knew 573 00:28:51,660 --> 00:28:56,660 more than I knew this is before like I took the the ancestry test or anything like that 574 00:28:56,660 --> 00:29:03,660 would have said, Hey, dude, there may be a possibility because I feel like I would have, I would have 575 00:29:03,660 --> 00:29:09,660 been more intentional on those next two years than I was. 576 00:29:09,660 --> 00:29:14,660 So that's the only thing that if I had said, man, I wish it would have gone a different 577 00:29:14,660 --> 00:29:15,660 way. 578 00:29:15,660 --> 00:29:16,660 That's the only one I have. 579 00:29:16,660 --> 00:29:17,660 I don't wish my child who is different. 580 00:29:17,660 --> 00:29:19,660 I don't wish the relationships were different. 581 00:29:19,660 --> 00:29:24,660 I wish that last two years after my dad was gone. 582 00:29:24,660 --> 00:29:29,860 I would have, I would have had more information because I would have, I probably would have 583 00:29:29,860 --> 00:29:35,660 been a fair bit more intentional about stewarding that relationship. 584 00:29:35,660 --> 00:29:36,660 Yeah. 585 00:29:36,660 --> 00:29:37,660 Yeah. 586 00:29:37,660 --> 00:29:43,660 And you know, it's always hindsight is always 2020 and it's like, you know, I think it's 587 00:29:43,660 --> 00:29:48,980 something that we all like you try to think about, you know, now like, you know, I know 588 00:29:48,980 --> 00:29:53,660 for like, I know for me, like, so my like, my dad's, my dad's retiring this coming here 589 00:29:53,660 --> 00:29:57,660 at the end of the spring and it is going to enter in kind of a different season of life. 590 00:29:57,660 --> 00:30:01,660 And you know, my dad's good, but I will say like in the back of my mind, I am thinking 591 00:30:01,660 --> 00:30:06,760 like, okay, it feels like there's a new, a new chapter of, there can be some new chapters 592 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:13,620 of intentionality now as, you know, he has time freed up and, and obviously like my time, 593 00:30:13,620 --> 00:30:19,500 my time is as, as, as full as ever, but figuring out like how I can continue to like involve, 594 00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:23,500 involve my dad, you know, even, even, even more when I hear stories like yours, it's 595 00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:31,580 like it just keeps on coming back to it's, it's strange like how we find ourselves distance 596 00:30:31,580 --> 00:30:39,540 from our parents in, in, in like, like, it can feel like a challenge, depending on your 597 00:30:39,540 --> 00:30:44,580 family, it can feel like a challenge to like work our parents as they get older, like into 598 00:30:44,580 --> 00:30:49,860 the regular rhythm of our life, um, some, somehow, and I think it's totally understand 599 00:30:49,860 --> 00:30:58,020 what I'm saying and I don't know, I think, uh, you know, as you're saying this, the thing 600 00:30:58,020 --> 00:31:05,740 that just comes to my mind is like, hmm, figure that out, like, you know, some way, uh, you 601 00:31:05,740 --> 00:31:09,660 know, the way I've met the way I've managed and Andy, you might be able to relate to this 602 00:31:09,660 --> 00:31:14,420 the way I've managed to work my parents continually into our life is to have them care for our 603 00:31:14,420 --> 00:31:22,660 children. I mean, everyone's looking for value. Yeah, that's right. Everyone's looking for 604 00:31:22,660 --> 00:31:28,060 value. Yeah, we're super. And the same thing for my in-laws too, like, we're super fortunate 605 00:31:28,060 --> 00:31:32,860 that they're nearby and that in the hustle and bustle that they, uh, that they want to 606 00:31:32,860 --> 00:31:38,940 hang out with our kids, which is super great. But yeah, uh, man, that's, uh, it's a good, 607 00:31:38,940 --> 00:31:42,540 it's, I think that's important though. It's important to like, for you guys to be having 608 00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:52,260 that conversation because I, because I was the last of five, I was younger. So my sister 609 00:31:52,260 --> 00:31:58,820 is, though I'm 40, my sister's 50. So there's a 10 year spread. Are you, are your parents 610 00:31:58,820 --> 00:32:07,180 all living? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a really hard thing. Like they die. Like they 611 00:32:07,180 --> 00:32:15,900 do. And like now experience that twice. Like I'm both Bill and my dad gone. Um, yeah, you, 612 00:32:15,900 --> 00:32:20,940 you do like gotta be intentional because the day comes, it creeps up on you quicker than 613 00:32:20,940 --> 00:32:24,500 you think. And then it's like, especially I don't know where you are in your birth orders. 614 00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:28,020 If you guys are older or younger and that kind of stuff and age of your folks and stuff. 615 00:32:28,020 --> 00:32:35,500 But like, I was like surprised that I was in my, I was in my mid 30s, bearing my father. 616 00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:41,940 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was a, like, I remember that feeling going, Jolie, my sister, 617 00:32:41,940 --> 00:32:50,700 she got 10 more years than I got. That's interesting. Yeah. And that kind of, and I'm spoken, then 618 00:32:50,700 --> 00:32:58,620 that sounds just like a baby child. Like I didn't get my first year. You jerks. You jerks. 619 00:32:58,620 --> 00:33:02,980 It's so consistent with the birth order stuff. But I did feel that way. I'm like, you got 620 00:33:02,980 --> 00:33:12,580 10 extra years. Yeah. Yeah. So you as a father now, I've, the question is always for us, 621 00:33:12,580 --> 00:33:19,100 like when you've been on, you've been on this journey, you're still processing things. I'm, 622 00:33:19,100 --> 00:33:25,220 I'm sure, I'm sure these thoughts come to you. Like I'm sure there are a number, a numerous 623 00:33:25,220 --> 00:33:31,580 daily or weekly scenarios in which you're doing something and then this, like this comes back, 624 00:33:31,580 --> 00:33:39,420 this comes to your mind on a regular. I'm, I'm sure of that. Very regular. What is you 625 00:33:39,420 --> 00:33:45,740 and like, as you and Mel have, have talked through this many times and like, what do 626 00:33:45,740 --> 00:33:51,100 you feel like the, the further impact on your own parenting is? Like what, what, what would 627 00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:55,180 have been some of the takeaways for you guys? And I know that not everything is like directly 628 00:33:55,180 --> 00:33:58,060 trained. Like you're always, you know, you know, it's like as the teacher, you're always 629 00:33:58,060 --> 00:34:01,540 trying to like figure out like, okay, what are the teaching principles out of this that 630 00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:07,300 we can, we can apply in, but it's not always a clear, like A to B, you know, track, but 631 00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:12,740 it, how is it formed? How is it formed? Do you like, how is it, how is it impacted your 632 00:34:12,740 --> 00:34:16,900 relationship with your wife, with your kids? Like, what do you think? Like, what do you 633 00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:20,340 feel like the process has been like there on that, on that side? 634 00:34:20,340 --> 00:34:28,780 That's good. So as far as like my kids, I did make an intentional decision that I would 635 00:34:28,780 --> 00:34:41,100 share the details of this as they aged appropriately. Because, yes, my father may not have been 636 00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:50,260 my biological father, but he is their grandfather and was wildly in love with them. And I don't 637 00:34:50,260 --> 00:34:57,820 want them to ever question any of that. Right. Like none of that. So my older boys are well 638 00:34:57,820 --> 00:35:05,220 aware of the situation. I told them very early on, my younger bits and pieces as they get 639 00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:12,220 older, I will continue to kind of bring them in as, as they can process this as they, you 640 00:35:12,220 --> 00:35:16,580 know, can understand. I mean, if I told my youngest about this, then I have to start 641 00:35:16,580 --> 00:35:22,500 talking about babies and where they come from. It's like a whole thing. It's a whole thing, 642 00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:29,260 which I probably should be doing anyhow. But yeah, somebody wants to do that. But so that's 643 00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:38,420 a, that's a whole thing. I think as far as like how, for Mel and I, I don't really know 644 00:35:38,420 --> 00:35:45,420 how much this is like affected us as much as kind of almost like, well, yeah, that checks 645 00:35:45,420 --> 00:35:55,140 out. Interesting. Like more, more so like, I see that. You know, you do look like them. 646 00:35:55,140 --> 00:36:01,660 You do are you are a completely different personality than my brother. My brother's 647 00:36:01,660 --> 00:36:07,180 a carbon copy of my dad. It makes sense why I'm a different person. Like I'm literally 648 00:36:07,180 --> 00:36:16,060 different. Yeah. So I think those kind of things have like begin to come and come into 649 00:36:16,060 --> 00:36:20,340 the light of going, Oh, that's why. Oh, you're not shy. You're just quiet around strangers. 650 00:36:20,340 --> 00:36:26,900 You know, there's nothing wrong with you. Like, well, my biological father was insanely 651 00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:31,500 quiet around strangers. Like he never talked. I probably heard him say 500 words in my life. 652 00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:38,460 And he just, so he's just always there, but never talk. So that kind of stuff, I feel 653 00:36:38,460 --> 00:36:42,020 like it's kind of been more of just like, Oh, that checks out. No, that checks out. 654 00:36:42,020 --> 00:36:46,820 That makes sense. Gotcha. That's that's been helpful. I don't think it's really like driven 655 00:36:46,820 --> 00:36:56,100 us like a part or together any kind of way more so like, Yeah. Yeah. I think it's been, 656 00:36:56,100 --> 00:37:04,020 it's been hard. I think on my mom that I know that that dynamic has been challenging. I 657 00:37:04,020 --> 00:37:10,140 think she really wanted me to if I think I know she didn't because she kept asking me 658 00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:17,940 over and over again, like she wanted me to be mad. And I think it's probably because 659 00:37:17,940 --> 00:37:24,100 of the level of guilt that she'd carried for so many years to convince herself he deserves 660 00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:28,660 to be mad. And so she would keep, she kept asking me repeatedly, Why aren't you mad? 661 00:37:28,660 --> 00:37:35,620 Why aren't you upset? And I'm like, I'm not because I'm grateful that I'm a person and 662 00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:39,100 I'm here and all that kind of stuff. So I think there's been, there's probably been 663 00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:44,700 some emotional energy that is that maybe as Mel and I have expended just kind of dealing 664 00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:50,140 with that aspect of it, of helping her realize we're not mad at you. We're not upset. We're 665 00:37:50,140 --> 00:37:53,940 not awkward. We're not none of these things are happening. Those are conversations we 666 00:37:53,940 --> 00:37:59,260 didn't have to have a year ago. Yeah. So then that part is that a little bit of a kind 667 00:37:59,260 --> 00:38:05,180 of a drain, but also understand it, understand why she would feel that way. Yeah. I think 668 00:38:05,180 --> 00:38:08,820 just hit me and get it over with kind of thing, you know, right? Well, I think too, as an 669 00:38:08,820 --> 00:38:14,140 adult, you can kind of see why she didn't want to necessarily tell you earlier, you 670 00:38:14,140 --> 00:38:20,180 know, like as if it would have come out, you know, when, when you were 15 or 16, like 671 00:38:20,180 --> 00:38:24,700 that probably you probably would have handled it a lot differently. But as an adult now, 672 00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:27,860 you kind of under, you can understand why she wouldn't want to necessarily tell you 673 00:38:27,860 --> 00:38:28,860 those things. 674 00:38:28,860 --> 00:38:35,460 Yeah, I was having this conversation. I'm about to speak facts I don't know about, but 675 00:38:35,460 --> 00:38:40,100 I like read something about like, like the development of especially the male brain 676 00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:47,340 and like actually the, the inability to fully understand like consequences and risk and 677 00:38:47,340 --> 00:38:54,940 things like that. No. Right. It's like, why are you at 18 years old, 18 year old, you'll 678 00:38:54,940 --> 00:38:59,980 climb a ladder and then at 27, you're like, Oh, it's a long way down. Like what shifts? 679 00:38:59,980 --> 00:39:05,860 Yeah. Yeah. Like the ability to like see the long term thing shifts. And you're right. 680 00:39:05,860 --> 00:39:10,980 At 15 or 16, I probably wouldn't have been able to be more mad now with that information. 681 00:39:10,980 --> 00:39:15,940 Like physically probably couldn't even have comprehended it. Yeah. I just the, the grace 682 00:39:15,940 --> 00:39:21,340 that has been extended to this situation, I think is immensely important. And I think 683 00:39:21,340 --> 00:39:31,060 that's like what I hear is how powerful that that God's grace to you guys in the in the 684 00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:36,020 midst of it and like that that was extended and the way that you've reciprocated that 685 00:39:36,020 --> 00:39:42,540 I think has you just see the power of it to take what could be a situation wrought with 686 00:39:42,540 --> 00:39:50,420 so many, so many landmines at every, at every direction for your immediate biological family 687 00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:56,060 for any other family that was connected to this and the periphery, all of all of that. 688 00:39:56,060 --> 00:40:03,460 How well, like Grace dismantles all of that. Like it just like, and yeah, and like, you 689 00:40:03,460 --> 00:40:13,460 know, it just doesn't like, there's no like, I don't see the power of regret, anger, hatred, 690 00:40:13,460 --> 00:40:19,380 bitterness and this and I say this would just with, with just the most love and respect 691 00:40:19,380 --> 00:40:27,540 for you, Caleb, like the way that you have responded has given others the opportunity 692 00:40:27,540 --> 00:40:34,540 to, to walk forward without, without shame or guilt. And I think it's just really, really 693 00:40:34,540 --> 00:40:41,580 powerful, like in a world like as you said, like back in the day and other and other in 694 00:40:41,580 --> 00:40:46,620 certain social contexts where it would have been like just the mirror on uncovering of 695 00:40:46,620 --> 00:40:55,700 this would have just like ripped people apart. Yeah. This thing has actually brought people, 696 00:40:55,700 --> 00:41:01,220 it's, it's brought people together and it's, and you're in, you guys are staying together 697 00:41:01,220 --> 00:41:08,420 and that's really just really, really beautiful. I'm, I'm great. I'm grateful for that. And 698 00:41:08,420 --> 00:41:15,300 I think anybody that's listening, I hope, I hope that you hear like honesty, met with 699 00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:23,420 Grace and love can just start a whole series of really redeeming events come coming out 700 00:41:23,420 --> 00:41:27,220 of it. If you'd like, whatever it is, I mean, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to 701 00:41:27,220 --> 00:41:31,820 be the, the particularities of this, of this situation, which are, I mean, that's, you 702 00:41:31,820 --> 00:41:39,100 know, it's, that's a thing that's a quite a, quite a scenario, right? But I mean, Caleb, 703 00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:43,660 what would you like, because as you've experienced this and as I'm listening to you talk about 704 00:41:43,660 --> 00:41:47,700 it, it just seems, I think that's one thing I'm just really caught by. I'm really, I'm 705 00:41:47,700 --> 00:41:54,500 really struck by is it's kind of like you're waiting for this, maybe like your mom felt 706 00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:57,380 and like you said, look with this guilt and like, why aren't you angry, whatever? Like 707 00:41:57,380 --> 00:42:05,420 we're just waiting for this kind of like nuclear option, basically. And none of that happened. 708 00:42:05,420 --> 00:42:10,660 And like, look, what is one left to conclude? Like what is one left to conclude other than 709 00:42:10,660 --> 00:42:18,260 something pretty, pretty holy has, has, has happened there? Like kind of beyond explanation. 710 00:42:18,260 --> 00:42:27,060 For me, it is, this is my like, first time, like head on, faced with it. Here it is. It's 711 00:42:27,060 --> 00:42:33,540 your business. It's your story grappling with how I view Jesus in the upside down kingdom. 712 00:42:33,540 --> 00:42:34,540 There you go. Yeah. 713 00:42:34,540 --> 00:42:42,380 Like, this is upside down stuff. Like Jesus literally did it the other way. And to like, 714 00:42:42,380 --> 00:42:46,820 I know that and I've experienced that with other people, but to like, have to like deal 715 00:42:46,820 --> 00:42:56,260 with it yourself. And actually go, the only response is love and understanding and grace 716 00:42:56,260 --> 00:43:07,820 and moving forward. Like that is the most paramount quality of it. It's like how many, 717 00:43:07,820 --> 00:43:11,820 how many times did he look at somebody in their sin and was just like so rattled by 718 00:43:11,820 --> 00:43:16,980 their sin? And he couldn't even move forward because he was so rattled by it. He just simply 719 00:43:16,980 --> 00:43:24,260 loved them and offered a new perspective. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's crazy. Like, but I've 720 00:43:24,260 --> 00:43:30,860 here, pastored all these years, 40 years old, I never had to like deal with it. Like, yeah, 721 00:43:30,860 --> 00:43:34,700 it was always someone else's story. Right. Yeah. 722 00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:40,180 But that thing came home to roost and I'm like, Oh, this is, this is me. This is people 723 00:43:40,180 --> 00:43:50,100 I know I love I care about. And I'm getting offered a new response. Yep. So that's that's 724 00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:56,980 my takeaway. It's like some upside down kingdom crap. Yeah. Supernatural. I mean, really, 725 00:43:56,980 --> 00:44:04,220 I think that that's what that's what strikes me. There is. There is one really bad part 726 00:44:04,220 --> 00:44:12,580 about it. And it's so my mother is from Charleston, West Virginia, where all my bloodline comes 727 00:44:12,580 --> 00:44:21,020 from. And so the only thing worse than that is now my biological father, all his bloodline 728 00:44:21,020 --> 00:44:33,660 comes from Beckley, West Virginia, which makes me 100% West Virginia. So the jokes they abound, 729 00:44:33,660 --> 00:44:38,340 I'm sure they're deep, they're wide and they are true. 730 00:44:38,340 --> 00:44:44,460 Your life's a John Denver song. My life is a John Denver song. Take me home, sweet country 731 00:44:44,460 --> 00:44:52,700 roads. Oh, that's great. I am also like John Denver. I'm actually never was lived in West 732 00:44:52,700 --> 00:45:00,060 Virginia. Yeah. Yeah. That's like from Colorado. Yeah, false, false advertising. Absolutely. 733 00:45:00,060 --> 00:45:10,500 Caleb, man, thank you for just sharing that. Yeah, that's like that's yeah, I it was good. 734 00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:16,220 It's the story. But then it's like, I think, you know, that core, that core realization 735 00:45:16,220 --> 00:45:19,460 and what you've what you've learned from it. It's always it's always weird when the things 736 00:45:19,460 --> 00:45:26,740 that we mentally ascent to in our life actually become like come home, like you said, come 737 00:45:26,740 --> 00:45:31,020 home to Roos, become home to dwell in our own, our own situation and our own hearts. 738 00:45:31,020 --> 00:45:37,500 And it is. And I think for all of us, I mean, that's what we that's what I desire for anybody 739 00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:45,820 that that the life of truth and love are not just ideas that they're not just ideas that 740 00:45:45,820 --> 00:45:50,500 we like, oh, we agree to in the way that we agree to any other kind of alleged fact in 741 00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:56,740 our life, but rather that it that it takes up a whole residence in our in our heart. So 742 00:45:56,740 --> 00:46:02,580 so good. Well, you know, because we can't end on a super deep and emotional topic, it 743 00:46:02,580 --> 00:46:08,420 is in time. Yeah, we got to we got to finish in, I don't know, an upbeat manner. So yeah, 744 00:46:08,420 --> 00:46:13,140 it's time for dudes and dads pop quiz. Oh, thank you. Oh, yeah. Where are we going with 745 00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:18,660 this? All right. So if you have never joined us, the dudes and dads pop quiz is just a time 746 00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:25,500 that we ask Caleb random questions and he has to answer. All right. So all right. I'm 747 00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:29,500 going to take some from the deck this time. Oh, take a card. Any card? We'll just take 748 00:46:29,500 --> 00:46:35,300 a whole half a deck. We actually have a deck that says the king of the pod decks, which 749 00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:38,500 is a black card. And I was wondering what kind of deck that was in interview questions. 750 00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:43,180 So actually, they're like tarot cards. We're just going to flip them and see. I'm kidding. 751 00:46:43,180 --> 00:46:50,460 That's not true. Okay. Well, I'll go first. Caleb, what is left on your bucket list? 752 00:46:50,460 --> 00:47:01,740 Yeah. Northern Lights. Desperately want to see the Northern Lights. And I want to Northern 753 00:47:01,740 --> 00:47:09,380 Lights is it's really, really, really high on my list. And I'd like to go on a safari. 754 00:47:09,380 --> 00:47:15,380 Oh, nice. Yeah. I've seen that. I know a lot of people have done it. I want to do that. 755 00:47:15,380 --> 00:47:23,660 Yeah. That's good. Has your, has no, has your brother been on a safari? My brother's been 756 00:47:23,660 --> 00:47:27,540 on more, probably more safaris than he can count. I would imagine. So this again, here 757 00:47:27,540 --> 00:47:31,620 you are on a safari like he was on safari like last week in Tanzania. Well, here you 758 00:47:31,620 --> 00:47:36,740 are yet again, living in the shadow of the elder of the elder. I know. I'm always in 759 00:47:36,740 --> 00:47:41,380 the shadow of the elder. Oh, when do I get to go on a safari? Okay. Caleb, what's your 760 00:47:41,380 --> 00:47:51,940 favorite gadget? Oh, favorite gadget is I really meld just got it. And I used it the 761 00:47:51,940 --> 00:47:56,260 other day. It's like this mandolin thing in the kitchen that like shaves and cuts and 762 00:47:56,260 --> 00:48:00,780 puts it all on. It's, it's handy. I don't know how to explain it, but you can cut up 763 00:48:00,780 --> 00:48:05,820 a lot of stuff really, really fast, which is I love all handy. That's I love it. All 764 00:48:05,820 --> 00:48:12,020 right. It's handy. It's the definition of handy. If you had someone following you around 765 00:48:12,020 --> 00:48:21,580 all of the time, what would you have them do? I would have them just tell me where to 766 00:48:21,580 --> 00:48:28,180 go next. Oh, that's good. Because I'm really good in the moment. And often I'm not very 767 00:48:28,180 --> 00:48:32,060 good in the schedule. So just tell me to leave the room and go somewhere else. I'll just 768 00:48:32,060 --> 00:48:37,180 do it. Very compliant. That's, that's great. Caleb, well, this could go, this could go 769 00:48:37,180 --> 00:48:46,700 deep. Caleb, when you die, what do you want to be remembered for by raining on a light 770 00:48:46,700 --> 00:49:00,180 note? I know, right? You should stop saying that. I tried so hard. I'd like to be known. 771 00:49:00,180 --> 00:49:05,860 I know this is cliche, but I want to really like be remembered as someone who was a good 772 00:49:05,860 --> 00:49:11,460 husband and a really good dad. That's why you're on the show. That's that's high. That's 773 00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:18,700 high priority to me. Good. And I fail. I fail at both of those regularly, but it is important 774 00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:29,580 to me. What do you value most in your friends? I value, I have a small subset of friends 775 00:49:29,580 --> 00:49:38,460 that I don't have to, I don't have to change who I am at all. The good, bad, and the ugly. 776 00:49:38,460 --> 00:49:41,740 I can cut up with them. I can have a good day with them. I can have a horrible day with 777 00:49:41,740 --> 00:49:46,380 them and they're not going to view me differently. Or if they do view me differently, they're 778 00:49:46,380 --> 00:49:49,780 going to tell me they view me differently. They're going to call my cards on it. I have 779 00:49:49,780 --> 00:49:54,700 a small segment of those type of friends and those are the ones that I want to be around 780 00:49:54,700 --> 00:50:03,980 the fireplace with. Caleb, what is what's the worst job that you've ever had? Oh, worst 781 00:50:03,980 --> 00:50:11,420 job. The only job I actually got fired from. Oh, well, that tell us more. Please tell do 782 00:50:11,420 --> 00:50:19,100 tell. Yeah. So I was all through high school. I would be really cool to work for Starbucks 783 00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:22,980 because it was all trendy. And remember earlier, I said, I need someone to tell me what to 784 00:50:22,980 --> 00:50:29,020 do because I just talked to people and lose track of things. I'm sucked. And hours are 785 00:50:29,020 --> 00:50:33,020 horrible. And this really nice guy came in and we were chatting one night and I made 786 00:50:33,020 --> 00:50:37,500 him a drink and I was like, don't worry about it. And he was like, Hey, have a great night. 787 00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:42,860 And then the next morning I came to work and I got fired because he was a secret shopper. 788 00:50:42,860 --> 00:50:51,980 Oh, apparently they take a dim view of that. Well, that feels like that feels like entrapment 789 00:50:51,980 --> 00:50:56,260 quite honestly. It does. You know what though, Joel? My Starbucks story is actually more 790 00:50:56,260 --> 00:51:00,420 embarrassing. I don't know about more embarrassing, but it's embarrassing. So one time we're driving 791 00:51:00,420 --> 00:51:05,700 through the drive-thru and my wife is sitting in the car with me. So Julie's next to me 792 00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:12,060 and I, the guy hands me my drink out the window. And before I pull off, I said, thanks. I love 793 00:51:12,060 --> 00:51:17,380 you. Bye. And then pulled off, not even thinking about it. And my wife was like, did you just 794 00:51:17,380 --> 00:51:24,340 tell him that you loved him? And I'm like, Oh my goodness, I did. So have you ever said 795 00:51:24,340 --> 00:51:31,500 amen at the end of a voicemail? I don't think I have. I've done that. All right. Give me 796 00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:39,980 a call when he gets my amen. All right. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Do you have another question? 797 00:51:39,980 --> 00:51:43,780 My last question and you can ask your last one. What is one bad habit that you are trying 798 00:51:43,780 --> 00:51:57,020 to get rid of? Um, I probably cuss more than I should. That's fair. Yeah. But I like how 799 00:51:57,020 --> 00:52:01,220 he's like, yeah, I think I might be trying to get, I think I might be trying to stop. 800 00:52:01,220 --> 00:52:05,940 Do I really want to stop? That's my, that's my question. I also believe, I also believe 801 00:52:05,940 --> 00:52:12,420 that sometimes profanity is where the brain goes to take a break. That's, um, like I'm 802 00:52:12,420 --> 00:52:16,300 trying like every once in a while, I'll say something in front of the kids and I was like, 803 00:52:16,300 --> 00:52:26,700 dude, I'm like, I've totally, totally forgot. Uh, oh, that's right. We have the beat button. 804 00:52:26,700 --> 00:52:31,940 Not that we have to use it often on the show, but the fact that the indie program that in, 805 00:52:31,940 --> 00:52:35,700 it's like he's anticipating the day that I go nuclear and just like, like something 806 00:52:35,700 --> 00:52:41,700 comes off the rails. I don't know. Uh, oh my gosh. Caleb, my last question for you is, 807 00:52:41,700 --> 00:52:55,260 what are you currently curious about? Um, I am, uh, currently curious about. This is 808 00:52:55,260 --> 00:53:05,660 gonna be weird. Um, we have a lot of friends who are in a lot of different relationships 809 00:53:05,660 --> 00:53:11,700 like conventional, unconventional, that kind of stuff. And I am curious at times, um, what 810 00:53:11,700 --> 00:53:18,020 other, like how that works. Yeah. Because like we grow up in this idea, it's like you, 811 00:53:18,020 --> 00:53:21,460 the only way to have a relationship is to be married and be married really young with 812 00:53:21,460 --> 00:53:24,900 no money and all this kind of stuff and then develop your life together. And like, and 813 00:53:24,900 --> 00:53:29,900 I see people who chose different paths and they're for all intents and purposes happy 814 00:53:29,900 --> 00:53:34,140 and experiencing love and connection, all that kind of stuff. And I'm curious and like, 815 00:53:34,140 --> 00:53:38,940 how did that happen? Yeah. More like relationships, styles and things like that. 816 00:53:38,940 --> 00:53:43,700 Sure. Yeah. Well, you successfully pass. What way to go Caleb? We'd have nailed that 817 00:53:43,700 --> 00:53:51,780 pop just like, yes, it was a high pressure situation. But Caleb, thank you again for 818 00:53:51,780 --> 00:53:56,580 being on the show. Thanks for joining us, sharing your story. And, uh, we're, uh, we're 819 00:53:56,580 --> 00:54:00,740 just, we're delighted to have you as a friend. I think I can, I think I can say that, uh, 820 00:54:00,740 --> 00:54:05,740 without hesitation, I think it's the 600 miles between our places. It's too long. It is. 821 00:54:05,740 --> 00:54:09,820 It is too long. And I'm going to put this, here's the deal. Just in case Jackie, my wife 822 00:54:09,820 --> 00:54:14,900 does is listening currently or we'll listen in the future. Offer stands. I just thank 823 00:54:14,900 --> 00:54:21,900 you. You beat me to it. I offer stand every break, fall or spring break. I, I try my best. 824 00:54:21,900 --> 00:54:29,460 I go, you know, I hear Annapolis is beautiful this time of year. That's what I go. That's 825 00:54:29,460 --> 00:54:33,060 what I go to. That's what I go to. So we're going to, we will come in. We will come and 826 00:54:33,060 --> 00:54:40,140 visit you for sure. Okay. Well, hey, as always guys, you can send your emails over to dudes 827 00:54:40,140 --> 00:54:46,780 and dads podcast at gmail.com or our voicemail number. We like those voicemails five seven 828 00:54:46,780 --> 00:54:52,580 four two one three eighty seven zero two and you can head over to dudes and dads podcast 829 00:54:52,580 --> 00:54:57,540 dot com for all the show notes, all the goodies. Um, maybe you want to, I don't know, connect 830 00:54:57,540 --> 00:55:01,100 with Caleb. We'll, we'll put it. We'll blast the socials up on there. We'll, we'll make 831 00:55:01,100 --> 00:55:06,500 him connectable because you need to know someone like him out in, out in Bowie, Maryland. 832 00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:09,900 You need to go to a place to go. You have a place to go during vacation. Yeah. If you 833 00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:13,740 need a place to go on vacation, guys, we're super grateful for you listening and tuning 834 00:55:13,740 --> 00:55:30,780 in. Thanks for hanging out with us. And until next time, we wish you grace and peace. Be 835 00:55:30,780 --> 00:55:44,940 sure to share the podcast on your favorite social media channels.