[00:00:00] Can you be passionate about your work and maintain balance? Or does the drive to help pretty much always lead to burnout? Today we are going to uncover the key to sustaining your career as a wellness practitioner. without sacrificing your well being. Welcome to The Conscious Practitioner, the podcast helping wellness practitioners align with purpose, create deeper client transformation, and evolve your practice, even if you feel stuck or burned out.
I'm your host, Dr. Jess, and each week we tackle your biggest practice challenges, from boundaries to burnout and everything in between. Together we uncover the inner blind spots behind these outer struggles that, when mastered, transform you from a skilled practitioner Today,
Today, I am chatting with Dr. Jaime Ray Goza, who is a career and burnout specialist who helps high achievers set boundaries, regulate stress, and create sustainable success. In today's episode, you will learn the top warning signs of burnout that every [00:01:00] practitioner needs to recognize before it's too late, how to set boundaries and say no without guilt so you can show up fully for the clients you love.
and for yourself, and why self awareness and emotional regulation are the missing keys to creating a balanced and fulfilling practice. Dr. Jaime has been through burnout firsthand, and he knows how to help professionals like you break free from the cycle. So if you've ever felt like you're giving too much or getting drained in return, this episode is for you.
So with that, let's jump in.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Welcome doctor hi me i'm really excited for this conversation as i reviewed the type of content that you produce and your business and all the things that you're involved in. I found that there was quite a bit of overlap between the messages that you have and what i'm really passionate about discussing so super excited for this conversation. Welcome, and if it's alright with you, let's just [00:02:00] jump in.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Let's do it. Yeah.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Alright, so, I talk a lot about burnout. It's, it's not necessarily the theme of my podcast, but it's, it's a major topic that I do discuss often, and what I'm finding is it's becoming more and more prevalent, which I find fascinating, because it's not like this is a new concept.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: We've all known about burnout for a very long time, and yet, in my experience, still rising. So I'm curious. Um, to start with, can you tell me in your opinion, what's, what's like the definition of burnout?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Burnout in the most, the easiest latent, latent terms is an abundance of stress that is unregulated that causes you to start feeling demotivated, start feeling fatigue, and it could come with a lot of other symptoms such as migraines, stomach issues, physiological symptoms that just slow you down. In a sense, like the easiest way I tell people is you're you have a that phone [00:03:00] battery percent and you just see it depleting over and over again.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And the problem is that you have a faulty charger that doesn't really allow you to get to 100 percent anymore.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Hmm. I like that. That's interesting. All right. So we started out with the description of there's stress and Uh, lack of emotional regulation, sort of like these are the underlying things that lead to it. the etiology would be somebody is really stressed out and they can't regulate their emotions, and then it leads into all of the symptoms like you talked about.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: And you described list of physical symptoms that ultimately lead into the person just feels like they can't do their thing. Is that, is that about right?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Yeah, sounds about
Dr. Jess Reynolds: cool. So then what do you think in, in your experience, um, what, what leads people to get to that point?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): it's a lack of boundaries, lack of communication and lack of emotional regulation. Regulation kind of like how we mentioned a lot of individuals that typically get burned out are high achievers. They're individuals that are multi passionate. [00:04:00] They have like a lot of goals and ambitions. However, because of all of these different like motivators, they end up going in too fast.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): No, no boundaries set. They just kind of go until they burn out. They're bringing to both ends of the candle in a sense. You
Dr. Jess Reynolds: on sort of like what leads to it and what causes it. And what I'm hearing you saying is just like, when somebody doesn't have boundaries, when they can't say no, when they overwork, right? a lot of the people I work with, like, yeah, you work on boundaries. You can increase boundaries, you can increase communication skills, you could teach emotional regulation. But then we get into that, that last little tricky one is the type of person, right? The overachiever type, the, the multi passionate type. [00:05:00] So when you're working with people who, who are in that category, right? That they get the principles and they do set their boundaries and they do the things, but they still got this thing in them. That's like, right. this is who I am. I just, I want to do a million things. How do you, how do you help somebody manage that?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): have to fix the system. There's something in your patterns of behaviors that is causing The burnout, essentially. And when I say by boundaries, is you have to really be conscious of what is causing the source of burnout. So is it really your employer or is it more so your lack of? Like of overcommitment, like you, you're basically saying like, I'm going to not have a hard stop at the day of when I'm going to finish work.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Or is it that you really want to please people around you and you don't want to let anybody down. So because of this, it's, um, causes you to overcommit and, and, Overbook yourself. So [00:06:00] now you don't have time to do everything you have to do, that you regularly have to do. So, so there's a lot of different components that go into there.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): But at the end of the day, you have to find out what is the factor that's causing my system to malfunction. And once you isolate that, that behavior, then start setting boundaries for yourself. So that you can regulate yourself and say, okay. Tomorrow I'm going to do a little bit better by tweaking this little system one day at a time.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Hmm. So when it comes to the boundaries, are there like a couple common ones that you see over and over again that like this, this is just a boundary that so many people don't have. Maybe it's the cat say no, or they're people pleasers or whatever it is. But are there, is there a couple boundaries that you think are pretty common?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Oh yeah, so one of the biggest issues is lack of communication. So they don't effectively communicate with one another. So they, they allow people to just get away with the very, very bare minimum. So like, [00:07:00] hey, I need you to, to get this stuff done. Okay, but. Um, I needed to be able to have a dialogue with me instead of just telling me things.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So next time, how about we have a discussion to see if I'm able to take on this new assignment or this new project before just assigning it to me. I was like, I already have these other things that I'm backlogged. So one is communication. Two is this need of I guess people pleasing, um, being able to be okay with not everybody in the workplace is going to like you 100 percent of the time, you know, every relationship, no matter romantic, platonic, like a work based relationship, you may, you're not always going to like the person 100 percent of the time.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): You may get along, you may respect them, but you're not going to like them 100 percent of the time, and that is okay. So, if you say no to someone because they're asking you for help, they're not going to hate you and then that relationship is over. So being okay to set that personal boundary of like, let me see if I'm able to, I have the mental, the mental and physical capacity to [00:08:00] get these stuff done before I overcommit and say yes.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And, One of the easiest things I tell my clients is for every yes that you say, what are you saying no to? Is it your time? Is it your, your family? Is it other assignments? Is it your mental sanity? What are you sacrificing every time you say yes?
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Yeah, yeah, I like that idea. And as I was hearing you describe the type of, type of communication, right? So somebody's boss, supervisor, significant other, family member, friend down the street, doesn't matter. But somebody comes up and says, hey, do this thing for me. And maybe they're agreeable, they're a highly agreeable person, maybe they're a little bit passive, uh, and they're also the, the type A do it all, right?
Dr. Jess Reynolds: So you got this, this constellation of personality traits that leads to somebody who's just going to say yes to everything and for the sake of conversation, uh, they're basically being a doormat, but the description I heard you give her the, the example, um, [00:09:00] it sounds like one of the things that you're talking about is people, Educating themselves or working with somebody like you to learn assertiveness and negotiation skills.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Does that sound similar to what you're saying?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Yeah, definitely. You have to be able to have the communication and like this, the people skills to be able to get your point across in a respectful and assertive way without causing. Like a drift between the relationship. So being able to effectively say what your needs are and how can we negotiate to meet in the middle to book, to get some type of compromise that we can both get our needs met.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: I'm, I'm, I'm a highly agreeable type, right? And that's why I can, I can sense this coming. It's just part of me. But I remember and it wasn't long ago, right? Like, maybe 3 years ago, I learned this word. And this word is no, and oh my god, I was using it like a sledgehammer, like somebody asked me something, it wasn't, it wasn't that, that, like, [00:10:00] conversation where there's two people coming together, it's like somebody asked me something, no, not gonna, and I used it like, like a child would, just putting my foot down and setting my boundaries, but in reality, I, I, yeah, I mean, I was setting my boundaries, but it wasn't tactable, and It was borderline aggressive just because it was such a new experience for me to finally learn, like, oh, wow, I can say no.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: So, so then my question is, what is it? What does the conversation look like, you know, when somebody is learning to set these boundaries and they want to be respectful and maybe they are highly agreeable or introverted and shy? What are some initial steps that a person could take in order to to actually say? Thank you, but I want to have a discussion about this before I agree or something like that.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Well, first step, you need to know, you need to do a self reflection, a self check and to see where are you at? What is my mental capacity? What is my emotional capacity? Um, how, how is my workload? Am I, am I able to take on anything in my life? Else at this time. So instead of just [00:11:00] automatically saying no, and you see your calendar and it's completely empty, you know, it's not going to make sense to the other individual why you're saying no.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So you have to be able to understand where your current what your current status is before you enter the conversation. So it's okay for you to say. Hey, I know that I noticed you just sent me an email or you just, or you want to talk to me about a certain thing. Do you mind if I just check my calendar and my, my kind of like to see my duties really quick, just so I can kind of see if I have the time to take something else.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And it's okay to set the tone that way. It's not. You don't just because somebody asks you to meet at that instant or asks you to do a request that instant doesn't mean you have to give them an instant response to say, Hey, let give me some kind of, um, can we actually push this out for another hour just so I can have some time to do some things and then I'll have more information to be able to give you an accurate answer.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So that's step number one. Know your status. Two, know where that person's coming from. Is that person coming and giving you this assignment because they're burnt out? They're maybe reaching their [00:12:00] capacity. They're asking for help because this is kind of like their last straws before they shut down emotionally, mentally, physically.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Or is it more so they don't want to do the assignment? Are they being lazy? Like what is the intent behind the ask? And are you okay helping them because of their intent? So, doing that second layer of, okay, like, based on that, am I okay with that? And then third, what is the bare minimum you can do to at least meet them?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Like, what are you willing to sacrifice? to meet them where they're at, if it's going to take a lot, if the ask is a little bit too high for you. So once you have those three things in mind, go into the conversation and listen, try to understand, and then try to find a middle ground.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Listen, understand, middle ground. I think it's a pretty simple recipe. as you were describing the, the kind of three things to do, I feel like the first thing you mentioned was [00:13:00] like a beautiful buffer, you know, for that person who is the ultra agreeable, going to say yes to everything. And that's the thing that leads them to burnout. even if they know that their calendar is wide open, it's a beautiful buffer, just standard answer. Not yes or no, but let me check my calendar and that to me, as you're describing, it feels like it would give a person some space to actually check in with themselves. Maybe the answer is no, not because they're busy, but no, because it's like, I can't do this right now.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: I'm feeling burnt out. I just, I can't or whatever it might be. But that let me check my calendar seems like a really cool buffer. I like that. And the 2nd description you were saying, it feels like this. We're back to emotional regulation, like it feels like one needs to be emotionally regulated in order to have that empathy to look at somebody else and be like, okay, this person is asking me to do this because they're lazy or no, this person really needs help. But to be able to identify that you have to have some pretty strong emotional regulation. [00:14:00] Do you work with people when it comes to teaching them that.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Yeah, it's being able to have these right questions to ask so that they can get the right data points so that they can make the appropriate decision. Because one of the biggest problems between workplace conflict is assumption. We assume that we know what's going on and we're no expert in the other person's life as they are not experts of our life.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): A lot of the issues is. That we either have with the manager with the co worker is that we want them to already know what the problem is that we're having, but they're not going to know unless you voice it out, you have to be able to communicate what you're going through and equivalently, you have to be able to ask them and pull that information out of them.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So you understand their perspective as well. What is it that they want? So you have to be able to have that give and take. So yes, your needs and priorities are also you. They're important, but understanding the other side is just as important. So you have to be open [00:15:00] minded and being able to do that. So I do teach people how to be able to process these, this information without just jumping to conclusions and like, uh, causing some strife in the workplace.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: I'm curious because I do spend a lot of my time talking with Bruno, and I wouldn't actually say that's my passion. Like, I wouldn't say five years ago. All I want to do is I want to have a podcast where I just talk about burnout with people and I write blogs and I do workshops and no, um, it's an unusual thing to have sort of within the sphere of things that one consciously chooses to work on. And with that being said, I'm quite curious what led you into amongst all of the other amazing things you do, which I'd love to dip our toes into. sort of led you into, to working with people who are dealing with stress and burnout?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): There's the saying that you become the person [00:16:00] that you needed when you were younger. And I definitely would have. I needed my services a few years ago and not to go into like this large tangent, but I had a pretty severe accident when I was 23 and it pretty much gave me an awakening of, I need to change my life.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And just to give you a little bit more backstory, I was working two jobs. I was averaging about, I wouldn't say 80 to 95 hours a week. And I was working from 5am till 10pm and I was doing my master's program as well. So it was just a lot of hours. A lot of stress and I was burning both ends of the candle.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And for me, it's like, I felt like I had this biological clock that was telling me I need to get all of these things done before I turned 30, before I turned 25. And, you know, when you're young, you, you say like, you have these, these little milestones that are pretty unrealistic based on the reality. But we, that was my, my [00:17:00] mindset back then.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So because of that, I was getting two to three hours of sleep a day and it, I was getting malnourished because I just didn't eat because I was so stressed out all the time. I was getting migraines. There was a lot of things that was just going on. And that led to me falling asleep on the road and I got into a major car accident where I woke up three days later marked as a John Doe and Like my car was totaled.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): All of my belongings were everywhere and pretty much the doctor said you could you there's no statistical reason why you shouldn't be dead right now based on the car accident and how you landed and everything you should have been dead and that just opened up my eyes and to just make things even worse.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): I called my boss because I was gone for three days from both employers and I was let go because I was M. I. A. For three days. So they basically said it's job abandonment. And we're already finding your replacement. And I told them the situation and it says, that doesn't seem like it's a lot, uh, it's a good enough reason for us to keep [00:18:00] you.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So, I was still let go. I ended up being jobless. And that was just a big awakening of like, there, I should not be killing myself for any job and burning myself out this thin. At the end of the day, they don't care for me. So I have to be able to, to learn how to regulate myself. So I went through a lot of therapy.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): I went through a lot of coaching and I decided to just study like, what can I do to help people not get to this level of stress and burnout?
Dr. Jess Reynolds: You said something in there that, um, you're doing things that were killing you. And I hear people say that when it comes to the realization of what's leading to their burnout. But the story you're telling was like literally true. and behaviors and the mindset you had was, was genuinely a hair's breadth from doing just that.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Right. Wow. Okay. I mean, yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. And I think about, I think about how many [00:19:00] people. Are where you were. They're working jobs because they're solid, decent, honest, hardworking people who need to make a living and are trying to do their very best. So they get a job working for company W and. They really give this company their all. They really do it. Uh, and yet the company, for the most part, oftentimes doesn't actually care. Like, it's scary to think that you could have almost died. Maybe you even did for a second. Who knows? you got to that position because you were doing everything you could to benefit this company, this other person, and they didn't really care and how many people give their lives to other people. How do you help people with that? Do you guide them from like, just telling them like, Hey, listen, your boss doesn't care about you. Or, you know, like, how do you help people come to that realization that it's just, it's just not worth it. It's not worth [00:20:00] sacrificing your health at the least in your life at the most. For a job,
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Unfortunately, a lot of people who end up coming to me have already reached that breaking point. Like I had one client that, uh, was diagnosed with, uh, stress induced diabetes because of how much stress and the impact that the work was putting onto them. I had another client who's having panic attacks every other day.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So I'm kind of like, as much as I want to be the preventative side, a lot of them already come in and I'm doing the intervention side every now and then I do start getting and I'm seeing the younger generation come in and learning from seeing their, their peers, a lot of millennials and generation X that they're going through all these things.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So they're being more preventative, but a lot of my clientele are the older generation that are going through the issues now. But, uh, to answer your question, It's, it's reframing. You [00:21:00] have to be able to teach a different mindset and one guilt and shame. Is one of the biggest reasons why people end up burning themselves out because they feel guilty that if they take a day off, everything's going to crumble because they have the system so tightly knit and it's perfect when they are there that they feel that if one day they're not there, everything's going to crumble or I always hear the same excuse of like, I can't go longer than three days of vacation because when I come back, I'll have more than 200 emails in queue and I'm like, okay, so once again, it's a systems problem.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): You need to create fail saves in case you're not there that somebody else can take over these responsibilities so you don't come back to all the stress so you don't come back to all of these things. So when I start to see like breaking things down into a systems based approach, they're like, okay. So maybe I do.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): There are other ways of me fixing things that I don't. It's not just me. [00:22:00] Stop caring about work. No, it's what? How can you do effective systems change so that you can create a better life for tomorrow? And unfortunately, the only way to do that is 1 percent at a time. So what can I do today? 1 percent better that is going to impact tomorrow and so on and so forth.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: you said one of my all time favorite words in there, which is systems like, Ooh, yeah. And the thing is, is it sounds so boring, you know, when somebody starts talking about systems, but isn't it, was it James clear who said you don't rise to the level of your ambition, you fall to the level of your systems or something like that.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Um, That's it. We'll see you next time. and have a [00:23:00] good one.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: obligation. Um, because like we get into this for a. part, because we want to help other people, right? That's, that's the thing I hear all the time.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Yeah, there's other motivations in there, but most of the time, because I want to help people, it's close to the top of the list of why people do what they do when they get into the practitioner industry. then on top of that, the very vast majority of us, we own our own business in one capacity or another.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Maybe we don't have a brick and mortar, but we're a solo practitioner who's working out of somebody else's clinic. We want to care for people. That's what we want to do. We want to build our business because we've got to pay bills and we also care for people. And we keep coming back to that. So the sort of catch 22 I see is I want to help people.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: And if I don't do that, then I'm not doing my job, but it's the helping people that kind of burns them out, right? It's the constant giving of themselves to other people. So what would you say to that type of individual who's feeling burnt out because [00:24:00] they just. They're a giver.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): I would say it's the common thing that you're told when you're about to leave on an airplane. You have to be able to put on your mask first before you put on the oxygen mask on somebody else. If you are not, if the foundation is crumbly. You cannot expect to give, give, give, give without a crumbling over time.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): You have to have a strong foundation, your home, your house. You need to be well equipped with all of these different techniques in order for you to be able to teach the same techniques to other people so that you can. Do a better, a better job. And unfortunately, people in the wellness and health sector are the ones that burn out the most statistically because they're giving away so much of themselves away every single day that they start experiencing vicarious trauma.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): They start experiencing secondhand trauma. They start. You know, absorbing all of [00:25:00] this stuff themselves, but they need to learn how to decompress it all. They need to learn how to be able to integrate rest in there. And it's not shameful to, or selfish to take rest and breaks and regulate yourself and your emotions and all of the stress that you're having.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): It is a necessary thing. You don't drive your car for more than like, what, what is it now? 7, 500 miles. I think at most, if you have like a hybrid, so with like never ending without changing that oil, you need to do the maintenance. You need to change the rotate the tires. You need to be able to change, keep the maintenance up so that the machine can keep going.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Same thing with us. You can't just go on forever without having to do that maintenance. So schedule is in.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Yeah, you know, we got a we got a new puppy. He's uh, he's eight months old now. He's a great little dude, and he's not high anxiety by any means, but he's borderline reactive. You know, he's kind of jittery and [00:26:00] really doesn't like kids and so We're, we're, we're deaf, both of us, me and Brianne, my partner, we're, we're the high achievers, you know, like, if we did have a kid, the kid would be in a thousand different programs. So, we, we hire this, this personal dog trainer, right, to come in and help us with this problem. of the things that, that she taught us, and promise I'm getting somewhere that's going to loop back to what you said here. One of the things she taught us, she, she asked the question, she said, What do you do for decompression? And I'm like, oh, we go to the dog park. And her eyes went big and she's like, Okay, I would suggest, I'm not telling you what to do, I would suggest you stop that yesterday. I'm like, well, why? He's so happy when he's at the dog park, right? Like, he's running around and wrestling and playing. And she said, yeah, that's not decompression. And the reason I bring this up is because you said that word, right, to decompress. And it's only recently I've realized that we need to actually understand what that means because My perception of decompression is let's go do something fun, it [00:27:00] turns out decompression is more decompression is more of a nervous system regulation thing and for Benny boy our dog decompression him is being in the forest where there's literally nobody else around other than me and him. So what's your take on decompression? What are some things, how can we help people understand what decompression is? Cause I think it's an invaluable skill,
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So, one thing you have to understand with that is, what stimulus is causing the stress? You can't go in to try to decompress when you're getting exposed to the same stimulus that is causing the stress. Because then it's just, it's not really going to work out. And avoidance of the stimulus is not the same thing as recovering.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): the stress from that stimulus. A lot of people avoid themselves from going there, which they'll go dancing, they'll go to clubs, they'll drink, they'll do other things to avoid, like, forgetting about the stimulus, [00:28:00] like, which is sometimes it's work, sometimes there might be meetings, whatever it may be, and sometimes it's her spouse, but avoidance is not the issue.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): The issue is being able to Thank you. Go through all of the things that you're going through and picking it one step at a time and releasing the nerve, relaxing the nervous system and also the tension that our body holds. So exercising, going on walks, um, doing physical activity. Great for the physical stress that we hold within our body.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): However, that doesn't really regulate what's going on in our mind. So to be able to do meditation, going, like you said, going into a silent place where you can just be in the here and the now and allow your mind to just flow naturally and whatever goes through there. Process it. Process it. Journal it.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Bring it out. Bring it out of your head. The problem with a lot of the stress is that they start going into this negative feedback loop in our head that's causing more stress [00:29:00] and it just doesn't really regulate our nervous system. So do something that's going to be able to truly ground yourself. And I think grounding is a better word than decompression because you have to be able to be rooted in where you're at.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So what is going to cause, like create a more relaxing state? And I don't mean going sign up to a spa or things like that. Once again, you're avoiding the stimulus. It's good for you, but that's not the end all. You have to be able to do some of the mental work to, to calm down.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: you know, amongst the other things you do, as I was looking into to your plethora of, uh, different things you're up to. Of course, you do career
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Okay. So, um, I'm going to be showing you a video of, uh, how, uh, how, um, uh, how we can, um, uh, how we can, uh, uh, uh, uh, how we can, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Bye bye.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: word because we [00:30:00] talk about it all the time. There's a billion books on resilience, right? We talk about it, but for anybody listening, just just take a moment and hear the word resilience.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Okay. And see what comes up, right? Because my experience has been this kind of two pathways of resilience, two interpretations. There's like the grit, you know, the, the tough, the mental toughness, the stalwart and stoic individual who could just like push through anything, get to the other side and keep on ticking. And you know what? Cool. Important skill to have once in a while. But then there's this other form of resilience where it's like flexibility and adaptability and kind of like going with the bow and bending where you need to, right? So there's this like more, more rigid, maybe young because I'm a TCM practitioner and more, or young aspect of like, I'm tough and resilient and more fluid sort of yin aspect to it, right? So when you're working with people with resilience, one, how do you interpret resilience? And how do you help people build it?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): It's [00:31:00] that second definition that you mentioned, which is more adaptability, flexibility, and really helping them go into things with an open mind. I think sometimes we go in a little bit too rigid going with that first Definition where we have to be this very strong figure go a hundred percent. I need to do it on my own and this is how things need to get done.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Because this is how like my parents did it or my colleagues did it or my role model did it. But in reality they did it. There's a lot of other support systems that they have. There's other resources that they utilize that may they may not have voiced out. In time, you know, so teaching them what can, how can you go into a situation with collaboration in mind, with wanting to understand others, with wanting to understand yourself, what are my limitations?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): What are my weaknesses and what are my strengths and how can I utilize other [00:32:00] people to balance those out, you know, and really being able to go with, go with the flow, you know, the path of least resistance and how to be okay with that.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Yeah, the how to be okay with that. That's um, that's an interesting one, isn't it? Because when it comes to a lot of these, these skills that we can develop, I mean, even earlier on in the conversation, you said one of the things to understand about the workplace is you're likely going to come across people who you don't like, or they don't like you. it could feel very uncomfortable one way or the other. That's just one example of a million, I'm sure. But yeah. At the end of the day, there are these things that we need to figure out. How do I become okay with this? You know, should I become okay with this? That's one question. But then the, how do I become okay with this? when we're talking about things that Maybe fall within the realm of a situation that isn't abusive, a situation that isn't overly [00:33:00] stressful, a situation that isn't terrible, and yet somebody finds it aversive. How do you help them become okay with it?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So you have to be able to get all the right data. You have to be able to be able to think outside of your norms and outside of the box. And there's this wonderful phenomenon, like, strategy that I I've learned, and I'd like to teach, which is called motivational interviewing. And, uh, so with that, you have to be open ended.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): You have to ask open ended questions. You try to pull the information from the other person, and have them learn that they already know all the answers. They already know what to do, you just need to be able to reshape kind of how their approach is going. How are they executing things and like you are mentoring in a sense, but a lot of it is they are the, they are the master of their own life.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So you have to be able to teach them to kind of just shift their [00:34:00] perspective. So I'll give you a quick example. There was this one client who came to me and said, I have this employee. She used to be my top employee and all of a sudden she stopped performing. She's not meeting numbers anymore. She's getting lazy, like she's being avoidant, and I don't understand why.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): I've tried asking her what's going on. She just says everything's fine, but if this pattern continues, I'm gonna have to let her go. So I want you to work with her and try to increase her performance and overcome her burnout or whatever the problem is. So I go with the employee and I start talking to her and there's always one of my favorite questions to say is like, how are you doing today?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And they usually say, I'm fine. You know, like this is this and this is happening. Okay. How are you really doing? Let's put that bullshit aside and really talk about let's peel that that onion a little bit deeper What is going on in your life that's causing the obvious strain that you're hiding from us Like what is going on?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): [00:35:00] Is it your personal life? Is it your school life? Is it work like what's going on? You don't have to give me all the details, but just the concept What's going on? And she broke down. She started crying and she said, I'm having issues with my spouse and It's the point where I fear for my life and I work long hours here But I feel like I'm constantly distracted because I'm not I know that as soon as I get home I'm gonna get beat and I don't know if this time is gonna be the last time that I'm gonna be This is I'm gonna be alive because of how bad it gets And I was like, okay, so we were able to work with the management and the, the workplace and we provided her resources for domestic violence shelter, being able to, um, the company actually provided her paid time off so that she can regulate herself.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): They did EAP and different things. that the manager would have never found out if they didn't just go in and dug a little bit deeper. So then I trained the [00:36:00] manager. These are the type of questions you have to ask. This is the type of techniques you have to be able to do. And most of all, you have to be able to build a rapport where they're going to be trusting for you to tell you these things.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): A lot of the times they say work and private life are separate, but it's really hard. They mix. And we don't have to know every single detail of a person's life, but at the end of the day, we have to care enough to be able to let them know if something like this truly does happen, I want to care for you as a human being.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Taking, taking my manager hat off and as a person, I'll try to do my best to be able to help you and that's what I mean by you have to be resilient and go with the flow because if you are going to try to take the easy way out, put them on a pip and get rid of them, this person ended up being one of their top performers and ended up replacing the manager when that person became a regional director and is now the new like manager of the location that would have never happened in that.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Yeah. [00:37:00] All of the wonderful things that she accomplished would have never occurred if that intervention didn't happen at that point. The easier route would have been, let's just write them up and fire them and go, but who knows if that person would have been alive today because of that. So it's just one example that for me, I still get inspired every time I say it because it was one of the biggest like trajectories that at least in my career that I was like, wow, what I'm doing is really, really is important and it does matter.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: And, you know, speaking to people who, who, again, are practitioners who maybe own clinics, one of the things I've noticed, which is fascinating is as a practitioner. We know these skills, like, maybe not all of us, right, depending on your specific modality, but nevertheless, I mean, I've taught everything from yoga to Cairo, and reality is, is pretty much every practitioner knows to kind of ask that question, like, what's going on?
Dr. Jess Reynolds: What's really going on? And what I've [00:38:00] seen is the moment somebody puts on that other hat, the boss hat, there becomes this like internal conflict. It's a pretty serious cognitive dissonance where some part of them is like, I know the questions to ask, but also I got a business to run, dammit. I got to make sure this ship is going, I don't have time for this right now. there's sort of that mental shift between practitioner, empathy, compassion and boss, right? So I think that's a pretty challenging balance for one to maintain, but certainly possible. Now,
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Yeah.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: a lot with corporations or do you mostly work with individuals?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): It's a mix of both. Um, from, uh, I, I would say like 60 percent are corporations, 40 percent are individuals. And I go in, I, I usually do workshops with, um, certain companies, teaching them like the broader concepts. And then I have typically the individuals come to me and say, Hey, I really like what you said.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): [00:39:00] Can we work one on one? So I work with them. Or even sometimes a supervisor is like, I have some employees that I think could benefit and we have some funds. So we'll like. We'll bring you in to coach our staff and a lot of times leadership so that they can learn how to be able to learn these skills and create effective change in the workplace.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: you have like a, like a path or a plan or a procedure? Those are a lot of P's in a row. Do you have like a, a system that you use, when you're working with people? It's like step one is we do this. Step two is this, like, is there, like, just think of for somebody who's listening and is thinking like, okay, I'm, I'm getting there, you know, like I'm flirting with burnout, you know, maybe I'm, I'm driving into burnoutsville right now. Maybe it's boss, maybe not, but just an individual who's, who's moving in that direction, somebody who you would choose or want to take aside from a corporation. there like a, like a base starting point without getting into their individual story?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): I would say there's two main things. One, they need to be [00:40:00] mentally ready to face things that they may not want to face. So they have to have an open mind and be willing to put in the work. A lot of the times when people come to me, they're thinking, I'm going to do 90 percent of the work and they're going to just do 10 percent and they're going to be healed.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): That's not the way it works. It's a 70 30 split. 30 percent I'm guiding you through, 70 percent you're doing the rough work. I'm gonna make sure that you're, I'm gonna be there for accountability, I'm gonna be there for guidance, I'm gonna be there to coach you. It's your life. You have to be willing to put in the work in order for you to, to get the change that you want.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And then two, this may be because of, I was a Red Cross instructor for over 15 years, teaching first aid, CPR, and life saving skills. And I'm very first aid oriented when it comes to my approach and that the first thing they tell you is you need to take the person away from the source that's [00:41:00] causing the pain or the hurt or the injury.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So that is the first step that I do is identify what is causing the problem. And if you don't know, then that's where we're going to work together to figure it out. So then we can go to the rest of the plan because if we're, working on a symptom and not the cause. Now we're only putting a band aid on the problem.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So when we end, when we end our course to get our time together, you're going to fall back into the same loop. So we have to find out what the cause is. So I do a lot of assessments. I do a lot of internal work to be able to work with them so that they can find out because I can assume what certain things are, but at the end of the day, they are the masters of their life.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): They ultimately know what's causing it. It's whether they're being honest to themselves or not to face the truth.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Yeah, I would, I would agree with the, all of it, but in particular, the last thing you said about people know, that's always been my experience when I'm, when I'm working with coaching clients or when I'm working with my patients [00:42:00] is when I'm dealing with somebody who's got like pretty epic chronic disease or internal medicine stuff. 99 percent of the time, I just asked that question and they're willing to be vulnerable enough to answer it, which is scary as hell sometimes. Almost everybody knows, like, you ask the question, okay, causing you to burn out, people really sit there and they, even if they don't say it out loud, they know, almost always, right?
Dr. Jess Reynolds: It's just about being honest with oneself and being open and vulnerable enough, which is scary. To say it to the practitioner, the coach, the mentor, whoever it is, that's helping them.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And it's just being that that key word you said is being vulnerable. And even if it's just a little bit, you don't have to be 100 percent vulnerable and talk about the whole issue. But as long as you're like, actually, I do know what I'm what's bringing me out, and I want to learn how to get through it.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): We can work together. Because you're willing to [00:43:00] acknowledge that there's a problem. If you're gonna go in with ignorance and saying, I don't know why I'm burned out. I, I just know that I'm stressed and my life's a mess and I don't know why. You're not taking accountability. You're not taking, you're, you're allowing, you have this mindset of the life is happening to me and you're not willing to take control of your life, be the driver of the vehicle that goes through that path.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So that's a little bit difficult. So I do need to assess, are they mentally ready to go through this change? They have to be able to take accountability, which is, I know. In part, I am the problem, so I need to learn how to fix, like I said, my system, how to fix my triggers and things like that so I can get through and over this obstacle.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of a whole stick, hey, with the whole podcast and the workshops I do is it starts and ends with you, like, in order to be better at what you do in order to recover from burnout or whatever it is. gotta go in, you [00:44:00] gotta go in and do the things, um, the process that I caused, I kind of made this mental model of it's, it's half archaeology, half architecture, half of it's digging up the past and like sometimes you find like T Rex and they're scary. But you gotta, you gotta do it, you gotta dig up the past, um, not exclusively, but you, you gotta do your inner work.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Yeah.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: and I think there's a lot of reluctance. And then of course there's like the, the spiritual bypassing and the, the, what do you call it, the expectation effect? I can't remember. The thing that happens when you like go to a great workshop and you're like, oh, the reason I'm the way I am is because my parents divorced when I was three. That's the reason I'm great. Moving on with life and assuming that the realization is the answer.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): No.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: so there's all these, no, yeah, so, it boils down to that, I think, it's know thyself, of course, it always comes back to self awareness, which is. said, sometimes hard won. Mm hmm.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Yeah, and I do want to kind of [00:45:00] touch into that. A lot of people think, two, two of the reasons that a lot of individuals feel that they don't need the help is because one, they came to the realization what the, what the problem is, and then two, they think that time's going to heal it. And both are not the answer.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): You have to be able to go, there's, forget what, who said the quote, you can't go over it, you can't go under it, you can't go around it. The only way that you're going to solve your issues is by going through it. You have to be able to face it on, and it doesn't matter how much time you put in between you knowing what the problem is and going to the solution, if you don't go through the necessary steps to face the problem and find out ways to fix it, the problem is still going to be there.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): It's just avoidance. You may feel a fix, you may feel like that you solved the issue, but you're just avoiding the issue. Eventually it's going to creep back into your life and it's going to happen again. So you have to be able to, even if you know what the problem is, you have to be able [00:46:00] to do the steps to face it and solve it.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Mm hmm. Insight illusion. That's the word I was looking for. The insight illusion. You have an insight, and you believe insight is enough. So, I'll leave that. I completely agree. You gotta go through it. And I think, I think there are some, some things that a person can go through by, you know, reading books, listening to podcasts, journaling, meditating, doing, doing their own work on themselves.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: I
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Mm hmm.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: But I also think that there are some things that you can't, and the trick is, I'm not convinced many people, although there are some I'm sure, can distinguish which one of these things am I totally good just to do on my own, and which ones do I actually need help with, which is why I am such an unbelievably big fan of getting help, however that looks like for an individual, be it going to a group coaching program, or going to an amazing retreat, or booking with a counselor, psychologist, or life coach, whatever it is, Hidden help is It's like so unbelievably [00:47:00] important.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Mm,
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): yeah. You don't know what you don't know. So it's hard for you to like what I tell people is you're inside of a jar and you can figure out all the puzzles inside the jar. Cool. But you don't realize that you're the jar is part of a bigger puzzle on the outside. And sometimes you need somebody from the outside perspective to tell you, hey, there's other puzzles outside the jar.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Like, let's try to help you fix those as well so that the puzzles inside can actually be truly fixed. So you need to be able to ask outside perspective so that they can give you a different way of thinking that something that you may have not known and now you have more, more content to work with.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: mm. What's one of those moments for you? If you don't mind my asking. I'm curious, have you been through those moments where you're like, I got this. I've had the insight, I I got the solution, but then it turns out five years later you're still doing the exact same pattern. maybe I'm speaking from personal experience here, [00:48:00] but.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Yeah. Like for me, um, honestly, one of the biggest, uh, Life changing moments was when I got diagnosed with ADHD. I, um, I went through my whole life thinking that I was lazy and I just needed to work harder and I knew I needed to work twice as hard as other people and I came to the conclusion that I just wasn't at the smartest percentile as everybody else.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And that's why I had to try twice as hard to read a book, twice as hard to sit down during meetings, twice as hard, like I had, I taught myself all these extra strategies to be able to cope with how I thought my brain worked. And it wasn't until I entered therapy and then they said, I said something where I was like, yeah, don't you hate it when you go through this, this and this and this, it's just a constant struggle and then they're like, And I was like, what do you, what do you mean?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And I was like, isn't, doesn't everybody go through that? And they're like, no, that's not something that everybody goes through. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then he's like, I think you need to go see a psychiatrist. I think you may have ADHD. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like [00:49:00] what? So I went through the whole process and turned out I was in the moderate severe end of the ADHD spectrum.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And my psychiatrist would literally said, I don't know how you actually accomplished everything you accomplished. without medication at this point. So you've learned a lot of really good techniques, but here's some more information to learn on how your brain works that may be able to help you in the long run.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): So now that I know what certain things, how my brain works, I was able to now create these systems that make me even more efficient and I don't have to struggle as much because now I know what causes me to motivate myself, what causes me not to motivate myself and things of that nature. So that was like my big, Oh wow, if I never sought out help, I would have kept struggling my whole life.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Yeah, I mean, I think I might be, I might be exaggerative. I suspect, I suspect everybody's got one of those [00:50:00] in them. They've got one of those things where, where they don't know because they don't know. They're inside of the jar, right? They can't see outside of it, or they can't see the inside from the outside. without somebody else helping, I mean, I've had one, I've worked with countless people who have, and that moment you just described, it's just like, It seems like a world opening up moment of like, Oh, there are ways to do this and other people who can help me understand how to do this and everything doesn't have to be a fight. a moment that must have been.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Oh, yeah,
Dr. Jess Reynolds: that.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): of course. Yeah. And it's amazing when you get access to these tools that you just didn't know existed, whether it be a client of mine saying like, I didn't know there was a better way to organize my calendar or a better way for me to organize my time, or I didn't know that there was this concept of like this type of yoga or this type of thing that can help me meditate a little bit better, or I always assumed you had to do things X, Y, and Z.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And now I'm like, I can do an ABC and still get the same [00:51:00] result. So it's just being able to get that different perspective. I think like what you said, it's, it's very needed to get somebody from the outside, whether it be a coach, therapist, or whoever to come in and talk to. Teach you something that you don't know.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Now, there are many different aspects that we could continue to talk about, but being mindful of time and we'll wrap a little bow in our conversation. However, before we do. there anything that we touched upon that you want to dig in a little bit deeper or anything that we kind of missed or danced around that you want to jump into?
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): There's a lot of things that we already talked about. So I'm trying to think. Um, I just think that one of the biggest things that we kind of like flirted with in this whole conversation is being willing to accept help is a big, is a big component. It really does start with you, like you said. It starts and ends with you, and you have to be willing [00:52:00] to allow another person in and say, Hey, just because I can do it on my own doesn't mean I should do it on my own.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And if there's a better way, a more efficient way of getting through this issue that I'm going through, why not take a little bit of time to invest into it? End. You're not going to lose anything by going in with a discovery call or going in and taking a course or buying a book or listening to this podcast or other podcasts similar to this and just learning a little bit about the concept to see maybe this is something that I can do to accelerate my growth, but whatever it is starts somewhere and you need to start by saying, I need help now.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): What am I going to do about it?
Dr. Jess Reynolds: I love that. love that. And it's, I think part of the reason I appreciate it so much is one, obvious. [00:53:00] As practitioners, we are on the receiving end of that request. day, every day, people are coming to us and they're saying, I need help. There's this thing I'm experiencing, be it a sprained ankle or major depressive disorder, and I need help. they've got the courage to ask for help, and we are the ones who get to give it, and it feels so damn good, right? So as practitioners, We got to give, we got to, we got to pass that good feeling on and be okay with asking for help and it might seem scary, particularly as practitioners, because some of us have this feeling like we've got to have it all figured out, right? We're, we're the, we're the doctors after all, but being able to just say, no, I got almost nothing figured out. This tiny little sliver of a sliver of the things that I could understand about living a life. I got that narrowed down. I need help. I really love that and appreciate that advice. Yeah.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Yeah, and I do it for myself to like, we're not, no one's immune to this. Everybody needs to ask for help. Like I have a collaborative coaches that I work with that helped me like improve my business like every day. [00:54:00] You know, there's certain people that I collaborate with that if it wasn't for their assistance and vice versa, our businesses wouldn't be able to thrive as much as it is.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): And. Same thing with my personal life. If I didn't have my therapist, if I didn't have my, my support system of my friends and my family, I wouldn't be the person that I am today. And it really does take a village to help you get through life. And there's no shame in and does not make your accomplishments any less valuable or any less impressive.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): If you got help along the way.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: I mean, maybe I'm just inspired by the conversation, but I'd almost say the opposite is, I personally feel as an individual, my accomplishments are so much more beautiful when it's not like me, I did this, but it's like, we did this, like, come
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Yeah,
Dr. Jess Reynolds: did this, what a feeling, a
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): exactly.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: wonderful. Well, Dr.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Jaime, I'm really grateful for this conversation. It was a lot of fun. And like I said, we definitely touched upon [00:55:00] a lot of different topics. So I'm super grateful for your insights and wisdom and your time. Thank you so much.
Dr. Jaime G. Raygoza (he/him/èl): Of course. Thank you for having me here. It was a pleasure.
Dr. Jess Reynolds: Oh, great.
Well, thank you so much for spending your time with us today. Before you go, I want to highlight three key insights from our conversation that you can take with you. Number one, burnout isn't just about overwork. It's about a lack of boundaries, emotional regulation, and self awareness. If you don't address the root causes, no amount of rest will fix the problem.
Number two, saying no doesn't mean you're letting people down. It means you're preserving your ability to serve. Your clients, your business, and your personal life will all benefit when clear and healthy limits are met. are established. And lastly, sustainable success requires systems, not willpower.
Whether it's your schedule, your mindset, or daily habits, structuring your work with balance in mind is key to avoiding burnout. A very special thank you to Dr. Jaime for joining us today and sharing his wisdom and experience with us. You can find all [00:56:00] of his information in the show notes. And as always, if today's insights resonated with you, be sure to follow or subscribe to The Conscious Practitioner wherever you get your podcasts.
Every week we explore how to bridge the gap between traditional bodywork and transformational healing without burning out. Thank you for listening to The Conscious Practitioner, and until next time, be well my friend.