[00:00:00] Hannah: Hi. Welcome to the Awfully Quiet Podcast. Today's episode is special. It's for the part of you that is tired of rushing, that's quietly questioning the pace of it all. That's wondering if maybe just maybe you don't have to run to be going somewhere meaningful. If you're anything like me, this one might feel a bit like the therapy you didn't know you needed.

I am joined by Chloe Lynn today, the founder of Slow Self, a platform that's become one of my absolute favorite spaces on the internet. Not just because it's beautifully curated and thoughtfully branded, but because it's fresh, unconventional, and so different from the usual slow living content that often leans too aesthetic or aspirational.

Chloe's work is about. Unlearning the pressure to go fast and planting something deeper. Instead, we talk about what it really means to take the scenic route, not just in life, but in your career. What happens when you stop chasing and start listening? When you let yourself grow at your own pace, when you work, finally starts to feel like you.

We explore the idea that a career isn't the climb to bigger, better, bolder, but more like a winding path with seasons of clarity, reflection, redirection, give and take, and how tuning into those seasons, both inside and outside of you, can change the way you move through work, through your career, ambition, and life.

Now, this isn't about matcha or morning routines. It's about the inner work that slow living actually requires. So whether you're on a walk. Lying on the couch or commuting to a job that you're kind of me about. This hour is yours, and if you enjoy this conversation, I would love for you to share it with someone who might need a tool.

And also, I know this is a little controversial because I always ask you for a quick five star rating because it literally takes just a second on Spotify. But since we're taking it slow today, maybe you wanna leave a few words as a review on Apple Podcasts because it makes such a difference, and it's exactly how the show reaches more of the people it's meant for.

Thank you for being here with me for choosing the scenic route today. Here's my conversation with Chloe. Chloe, thank you so much for joining me today, and welcome to the Awfully Quiet Podcast. I.

[00:02:40] Chloe: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat with you.

[00:02:44] Hannah: Well, I am really, really excited. I did think quite a bit about how to start this conversation because I realize a lot of what I have prepared for today is me asking for a friend and really almost like prepping for a therapy session. something that you wrote to me prior to us recording was, that you've created your platform to inspire people to slow down and grow at their own pace.

And that really stuck with me. I feel like this is exactly what I need in my life and my career, and that's why I can spend hours on your Instagram and website. And at the same time, I am extremely impatient and a sucker for fast results. So I cannot tell you how much it means for me that you are here today, that you're on the show and having this conversation.

And where I'd like to start is really with your take on things, with your career story, how also self came to life and I. How much of the struggle I'm describing resonates with you, or how much of the slowing down and growing at your own pace did you have to learn yourself

[00:03:46] Chloe: Hmm. Sure. Yeah. What you're saying, it sounds extremely familiar I think to a lot of people listening as well probably. So for me, slow Self really started as mostly a creative outlet and also I guess a quiet little rebellion against what I perceived to be the more, or

[00:04:07] Hannah: I.

[00:04:07] Chloe: maybe toxic or harmful sides of this kind of hustle mentality and productivity culture.

And that really stemmed from my early experiences in the workforce. So I started at a corporate job very early on. I was about 19, I think, and I started working as a business consultant for a, a marketing agency. Or kind of social media marketing agency. And this was a really high pressure, fast-paced commercial environment.

And up until that point, I had always kind of envisioned myself as this business girly, like it was that girl boss, I think it was about 2016. So it was very much that girl boss era. So I was gobbling up all of that content. You know, I really had this vision of climbing the corporate ladder. And then once I got into a really commercial, like high pressure role, I started to realize that that really wasn't for me.

It's not where I thrived. I felt like I was constantly pretending to be someone else. I was feeling anxious and also seeing a lot of my work colleagues get burnt out even when they were very young. You know, just entering the workforce. And so I think for me, that was kind of my first reality check of like, okay, maybe this hustle mentality that I had kind of glorified in my head.

Not really, it's not working for me. And I think for a lot of people it's also causing some sort of harm. So, you know, I was craving something a little bit different, but I didn't really know what, at that point, I had to kind of question, you know, who am I, if I'm not this business batty, that I kind of had always imagined that I would be.

and so I was consuming a lot of personal development content as well. And then I realized that a lot of that was also being approached through this hustle cultural lens of like, you need to wake up at 5:00 AM and do all of these things before you go to work. And then you can, you know, become unrecognizable in 30 days.

All of that kind of, you know, the stuff we see a lot online. Yeah. on the one hand I felt really drawn to that type of content. I feel like we wanted to hear those things for some reason. And at the same time, I knew that it wasn't realistic at all and that I was holding myself to this really impossible ideal.

So. I personally was craving something different, something a bit slower, but I still wanted to grow, right? I was really interested in personal development content. so that is kind of where this idea of slow self started to take root. But at the time, I didn't do anything with it for the longest time because I thought people didn't want to hear about it.

It didn't sound as sexy as, you know, the latest productivity hack. and it wasn't until I think, in 2020 when it was COVID-19, and so people went into lockdown, of course. And so they were being forced to slow down. And I think for a lot of people that was kind of a trigger of like, okay, I'm kind of stepping out of that hamster wheel and asking myself, what do I want?

Why do I, why not go? What? Do I care about what is meaningful to me? And so I figured that is the right time for me to maybe start sharing some of the things I was thinking about. And, yeah, that's where Slow Self actually started. I built the website and revived an old Instagram account that I had and, yeah, started exploring those ideas.

It was mostly for myself, but I was also sharing it with other people. Yeah.

[00:07:24] Hannah: I, well, I love that and I resonate with a lot of what you're telling me about the kind of content that was out there.

[00:07:30] Chloe: Hmm.

[00:07:31] Hannah: especially along the lines of, of wanting the results and craving some of that success and the personal development and the growth and the career fulfillment to a point where you envision, or when I hit that girl boss, status, that's when I will be really fulfilled and that's when I will be, you know, working in line with what I do really, really well and it's all going to feel really, really good.

And I think that, yeah, I personally, I've never. I never hit that goal just because I think I never had the right tools to go in or grow in a way that would, that would get me there. So, I had similar realizations along the way, and of course lean more into my personality and into my quiet, and a lot of that obviously also lends itself to a more slower, to a more intentional build over time or more, more intentional growth over time.

I wonder when you started to put out content, what were the first couple of sentiments that you got back? How do you, how do you think people felt about growing Slow.

[00:08:40] Chloe: Yeah. I'm trying to think back to it. I think what's interesting is when I look back at the first things that I put out there, now it makes me cringe a little bit because it was still very much ingrained in that kind of, yeah, girl boss culture. So sometimes I look back on things and it was like, you know, time blocking so you can get more done.

Like it was stuff that actually wasn't really that slow at all. But I still had all of this unlearning to do myself. So, and I think I also just was a bit scared to really. Maybe be critical of those systems that we all, you know, were in and we still need to thrive and live in these systems. Right. so I think I was a bit scared to really, build that voice that I have now.

so I don't really remember if people, how they perceived it. I think they enjoyed it, but it wasn't until I started to really come into that kind of more critical voice that I started to notice that people were really resonating with it and that they kind of wanted to hear how maybe some of the things that they been told or that they grew up hearing, we're actually also doing some, some harm.

And that maybe there was a different way of looking at things that you could still grow and you could still develop yourself and have these ambitious goals, but you don't have to go about it in this really, I. Bridget pressuring way you can have self-compassion. You know, you can set a goal and then change your mind.

Like all of those things are okay and for some reason we've been taught that they're not. So I feel like when I started to lean into that more, that's really when I started to connect with people and I started to have more meaningful conversations as well.

[00:10:24] Hannah: Hmm.that was the same for me. Like I also cringe at some of the things that I posted years and years ago, but I think it's all part of the journey and it's how, you find the right message, you find the right tone, and some of the realizations you have down the line you wouldn't have had if you didn't go for it.

And if you didn't post some of the cringey stuff to begin with, ob obviously back then, yeah, it was just where you were at. and I think when I look at your content today, I'm just so amazed and in awe because from also from a brand, manager's perspective, it's just so. In tune it just coming onto your side, it just instantly feels like you slow down through some of the colors that you see through the vibe, the mood, and then the words that you use.

It's very carefully selected and it almost feels like a full team behind. So I wonder how do you approach creating that type of content? Do you have routines for content creation? Do you do something specifically to spark inspiration? Do you do it all by yourself? Do you have a team? Do you lean into tools that you work with?

How do you come up with, you know, that brilliant, cohesive story that really makes you feel like things are slowing down around you?

[00:11:44] Chloe: Well, first of all, thank you so much. That's really, really kind of you to say. And I, it's always nice to hear your work described by someone else. It's like a special kind of, yeah. It's just a very beautiful compliment, I think, and a way of, you know, being seen by someone else. So thank you for that. yeah, I think I've always been very, sensitive to aesthetics, like ever since I was a little girl.

That's just something I really cared about. And I do also have a background. I got my MBA in digital marketing with a specialization in branding. So I think I. That's just you. Yeah. You probably know some people are just sensitive to those things. So I, that was one of my favorite things about building something that was my own, is that I could shape it exactly how, how I wanted, and I could think about, you know, what do I want to convey, and then what would be the best colors and the best imagery and the best, you know, tone of voice to do that with.

and that's also not something I, you know, I started out with an idea of it, but it also evolved over time, of course. And I feel like even now, recently, I'm still shifting the way that I'm approaching it. So it's an ever evolving journey. but in terms of content creation, I, for me, it's very much a quality over quantity, philosophy behind it.

I, it takes a lot of time for me. I'm not efficient at all with it, which sometimes I can get hard on myself about it when I'm like spending a whole day on just one post. And then I think, you know, if this is the time that it takes, then this is the time that it takes. I'm. I'm very much someone who works things out.

I figure out what I think about something by writing, by creating, I'm not someone who is very good at, I guess, figuring out what I want to say, verbally, which is why doing a podcast like this is also a big step outta my comfort zone. I'm someone who thinks through writing and through creating. So sometimes it's a very long process.

I will have this idea and I will jot it down in my notes, and then maybe a month later I will look at these things that I wrote down and think what feels like it's something I want to explore further right now. And then that is something I will try to think about a little bit more. But it's a very long process, so I always have these different ideas going on at the same time.

And I use Notion as a tool for just everything. I love Notion. I think a lot of your listeners probably know about it, but if you don't, it's this. Tool that you can basically shape. It's a blank slate so you can shape it to be whatever you want, which for me is very meaningful because that means I can take, you know, what my definition of success is, what are the things that I want to focus on, and that I want the tool to facilitate for me, and then I can build the tool, design it to do those things, which a lot of productivity tools can do, right?

They are very much anchored in this definition of what is productivity, what should you want to do? Which for me is sometimes very different from the things that I am, you know, pursuing. I think productivity and creativity and these things, sometimes they don't really mesh well together. So I love notion for that.

So I use that for content creation. So I have for each piece of content, different stages that it will go through. You know, at first it's just a rough idea and then. When I'm ready to start exploring it a little bit further, it goes into kind of the, I call it the concept phase, and then I will kind of schedule it and I always schedule just one week at a time.

I'm not someone who's like, I'm gonna schedule a month of content ahead of time. I don't know how people do that. Like I said, it's just, for me, it's such a long process and, you know, I've just accepted that about myself. I don't know how, you know, I don't have a team at all. I currently also have a corporate job on the site, so I, work part-time and I do this, yeah, just as a creative project, kind of a thought project next to that.

and right now it's something I do on my own, but I, if I wanted to, produce more, then I think I would definitely need some help because it's just a, a very long process for me. But I love it a lot as well.

[00:15:45] Hannah: Well, and you can tell because it's not you. You know, you can just tell by consuming the content that it's not just something that. Somebody just crammed out of, you know, a quick session. Or you can tell that it was also built slowly. And I am very similar to that, but I have only recently admitted that to myself and accepted that about myself because I would always consume advice along the lines of, you need to batch create, or you need to batch record episodes.

And like, I cannot do more than one episode at a time. Ideally not more one than, not more than one a week because takes so much energy out of me. Not that I don't enjoy it, but it does take effort and energy.

[00:16:31] Chloe: Yeah, I can imagine.

[00:16:32] Hannah: and it's similar with like designing a post. It also takes me a lot of hours. And then you would hear creators talk about, well.

Become more efficient, effective batch create, make sure that you plan out a month in advance. And I tried doing those things, but they never worked for me. And I always thought, well, how come I'm not good at this digital marketing stuff, I'm a brand marketer by day, you know, I should be able to do this stuff and like plan ahead and do a month of things.

But I was never able to do a month of anything. and so I love that you're saying that about yourself and that you have, you know, fully embraced that about yourself and found your own rhythm doing that. And I feel like it's almost, you know, permission giving and maybe even the future of how, you know, quality content comes to life.

Who knows?

[00:17:22] Chloe: Yeah, I hope so. I, I think now with, you know, the rise of AI and AI generated content, we're. Being flooded with all of this stuff that has been created very quickly. Most of it isn't, is less than 24 hours old. So we're in this constant state of, you know, new stuff. And I feel like it's good to be able to explore a topic really deeply and you know, make people think.

And it's not really what performs best sometimes, unfortunately, which is something you need to keep in mind, of course. But I have found that when I put more thought into something that I post, the conversations that ensue from that are so much deeper and so much more meaningful when there's a real exchange that's happening.

And ultimately I think that is the goal of social media. So that's also why I've kind of. Grown to accept that part of the process, that kind of slower part of the process. And yeah, I think maybe it is the future. You can hopefully at some point tell the difference between what is something that someone has really thought about and put their heart into, and what is something that maybe, you know, half of it has been imagined by ai.

[00:18:34] Hannah: Hmm, absolutely.what do you think is the reason why we romanticize being fast So much? Like, for me personally, I'm like, I love fast,

[00:18:47] Chloe: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:47] Hannah: but I feel like it's not the best vehicle for me. Like the better approach for me is to go slow. I feel that in every sense of my life, time and time again. I put fast on a pedestal.

I would love to be fast. I love fast results, everything fast. But, why did it come to be and how did this, movement of Slow came about?

[00:19:13] Chloe: I think, well, first of all, I want to acknowledge that I think that's so normal for us to chase that speed, you know, and to maybe even kind of equate our, our worth or our value to how much we get done. I think that is simply what is valued in our society and the workplace. Of course, you know, as humans, we just want to, you know, be liked, be loved, we want to fit in.

So of course we're going to measure ourselves based on those same metrics. but I also don't think slowing down needs to be something else that you add to your to-do list. Like, that's not the the point. We don't want people to both feel guilty for, you know, not doing enough and feel bit, feel guilty for doing too much.

That's, I think, should never be the goal, but yeah. I think it just comes from what is valued in, in our society, basically. And I think we can acknowledge that feeling and you know, we still need to, be part of that system, of course. But I think it's also really helpful to try to introduce maybe some different ways of thinking about the messaging that accompanies that need for speed.

Right? So for example, like I just said, my worth is tied to my productivity that I think is really. Really harmful thing that a lot of us grow up thinking. You know, it starts, I think, really young when, every time you get praised for something that you did, that you accomplished and not necessarily for just who you are.

Like it does build this kind of mental connection between your worth and achievements, which I think then causes that need for speed now, as adults. so that's something I've had to unlearn myself as well. And I'm still, you know, in the process of doing that, I definitely don't have all the answers.

I still feel those pressures myself as well. But to be like, Hey, my worth is here simply because I'm here, there's nothing I can do to be more or less worthy. I'm, you know, we also wouldn't think of a kid who hasn't worked a day in their life. We wouldn't be like, you're less worthy. Or someone who is unable to work maybe for whatever reason.

We would never think that they're less worthy than for some reason we don't apply that same logic to ourselves. Which, yeah, so those kind of just mental reframes have helped me a lot personally. And, yeah, in terms of the slow movement, where it came from, it has a really long history. you know, it started with the slow food movement in Italy, which there was a McDonald's that was going to be open in Rome.

And you know, the Italians, they love their food and their

[00:21:47] Hannah: I like that.

[00:21:48] Chloe: so yeah, they were not happy about it. And so that's kind of how it started really focusing on food. And then it kind of grew into, basically now for everything there is a slow version. You have slow parenting, you have, slow work, slow education, basically anything.

and still living is kind of the, I think the overarching umbrella that everything falls under. Yeah, it's just a counter movement basically to these pressures that we feel from, you know, hustle culture and yeah, those kind of movements that we have in our, in our current society.

[00:22:23] Hannah: I love that. And I think that the sentiment of, of growing slowly, or growing with intention or growing at your own pace is something that is so unconventional, especially in the corporate world, right? Because it is always about growing fast,

[00:22:38] Chloe: Yeah.

[00:22:39] Hannah: making fast moves, and you know, time in role and making sure that you don't stay somewhere too long.

I certainly always felt that, and I, I love how you described that. It ties to self-worth because for me it was always also a way of proving myself. Like, you know, moving up the ranks is a way of telling yourself, well, I'm doing well, I'm getting recognized. I, I tie that to my worth and to my, how I feel about myself, how I talk to myself.

So I wonder, because you're in the corporate world, how do you feel about growth and career progression and potentially taking it slower? What is your experience of potentially being a little bit more patient with yourself? Did that change anything for you?

[00:23:25] Chloe: Yeah. I think it was difficult for me at first to, yeah, just like everything we talked about earlier, to kind of accept that, and even now I feel like sometimes I. I still get pushed into certain directions because there is this assumption that everyone wants to be, you know, at the top of the corporate ladder.

You know, everyone wants to be a manager. Everyone wants to end up, you know, as A-A-C-E-O or whatever Yeah. Wants to end up on at the top. that just isn't something that I personally really strive for. You know, I really like, I like growing horizontally, rather than, of course, I will make career moves, you know, if I feel like I'm not being challenged.

You know, I've, I've been a manager for a while. I've tried out different things, but I personally find the most value in growing more horizontally. So shifting from role to role, which I think is something you've done as well, kind of. Going from one thing and then trying something else. what's, yeah, I find fulfilling personally.

But it is difficult because the expectation is there that you want to grow. And so I've had sometimes moments where, you know, HR would come to me and be like, Hey, you know, we feel like we want to offer you something more because you're doing a great job. Like, would you like to do this? Would you like to do this?

And then it felt like by saying, Hey, I would rather, you know, grow horizontally. It was like I was coming across as not ambitious enough. which yeah, has always been a little bit difficult, but I feel like if you kind of explain the reasoning behind it and you have, you're surrounded with good people in the company you work for, then you know, it's fine.

And ultimately it's also about just picking a great place to work. And I also feel like when you give yourself that permission to grow in the way that you want to, I. It kind of gives other people that permission as well, right? And they, maybe start to think about how they view success, and maybe that looks a little bit different from how I view it or how you view it.

but yeah, it, it definitely is challenging because there are these expectations there. so yeah, it's, it's not something I have completely figured out. but it's something I'm trying to work on myself as well.

[00:25:35] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah, I think it, it, it's a journey, isn't it, for everyone.what do you think are the benefits of giving yourself more time or being a little bit more patient or kind of figuring out the pace that works for you and not kind of looking left and right all the time? Comparing ourselves to how others are progressing or the kind of moves others are making.

Within their careers.

[00:26:00] Chloe: Yeah. I think ultimately it's just a lot more sustainable. I feel like, you know, we want to grow very quickly and then you might have this really steep line, but then, you know, if you keep pushing for more and for faster, there is a chance that you're going, that line is going to collapse, right? You're going to crash.

You're going to either burnout or maybe not function as optimally as you would like. Or maybe even you keep pushing and you eventually get somewhere only to figure out that it wasn't really where you wanted to go to begin with because you never stopped to ask yourself, what does a meaningful life mean to me?

which, you know, when you're in the rat race or the hamster wheel, there aren't really moments of reflection to figure out. What do I value? Where do I wanna go? And so there's this real risk that you push yourself up to a certain point only to figure out that, you know, it's not really what you wanted.

So I think that's the main benefits of going at it a little bit more slowly, is that you have these moments of reflection. And also, you know, you might not be growing the, the line might not be as steep, and instead you're growing in these little peaks and valleys, right? So seasons of growth and then seasons of maybe more rest and reflection and seasons of growth, but you're still growing.

The line is still going up, but it's doing so in a much more sustainable way, I think. and I feel like when we're constantly pushing to grow. Nothing can grow all the time. You know, we're parts of nature. You just have to look outside and you'll see a tree is not growing new leaves all the time. It's just not possible.

It's not sustainable. and I think the more we can think of our lives as different seasons of, you know, some seasons are meant for rest, some seasons are meant for growth. That is ultimately what is going to allow you to keep that sustainable pace and also figure out what pace works for you. Right?

[00:27:54] Hannah: Yeah, it's a, sentiment of. Not climbing the wrong mountain.

[00:27:59] Chloe: Yeah, exactly.

[00:28:00] Hannah: I, it, it's so beautiful what you're saying. I heard, a podcast recently, Gwyneth Paltrow said that it's the, slowest growing vegetables that have the most nutrients.

[00:28:12] Chloe: Oh, wow.

[00:28:13] Hannah: I just, I love that a lot. Apparently she's an introvert too, and I didn't know anything about it, but, really resonated with her story.

So, that kind of stuck with me. And I feel like your description of the peaks and valleys and how there are different seasons in our lives and, and there's maybe a little bit of a job to do in the kind of expectations we have on ourselves and our careers, on our jobs of like, it can't just always be growth.

It can't just always be. Happy or, you know, feeling super comfortable or feeling, you know, super good with what we do. I think there is, there tends to be that expectation. Our careers, you know, if you don't feel good with what you do, there's something wrong.and I like this idea of there will be different times throughout your work life, and it is absolutely how it should be and slowing down and being in tune with yourself and finding those moments of connection.

And I've recently had, someone on the podcast, Jessica Faith Grham, who mentioned this time of like meeting herself and finding time throughout the day where she, it's almost like a meeting with herself where she can tune into her own thoughts, what, what she needs and what, what the day requires of her.

And I feel like obviously through your content and through your work, you really have cracked. How, how can we tap into. Those moments with ourselves and how do we spend that quality time to then figure out what it is that we really want, that we really enjoy, and to have this kind of in tune relationship with ourselves.

What are some of the things that you do to enable that?

[00:29:53] Chloe: well, first of all, I wanna say that. It's not something I've completely cracked. You know, there are times where, you know, when things get overwhelming, I too kind of go through life on autopilot. You know, all of the maybe more intentional practices that I try to do, they are the first to go get thrown out the window, right?

I think that's also a normal expectation to have. So, you know, something I try to do personally is to, kind of steer away from this idea of really rigid routines and I, you know, prefer to kind of. Choose a more rhythmic approach, which is like, there is an intention to do things in a certain way. You know, maybe in the mornings, you know, the way I want to have a slow morning where maybe I do something for my physical health and something for my mental health.

So it could be like yoga and meditation or something, but it's an intention. But the way it looks can be different every day. Sometimes it will literally be just 10 minutes of yoga and maybe three minutes of meditation, you know? and sometimes it will be, you know, 30 minutes of stretching and then journaling.

It looks different all the time. And if I really don't feel like it, then I also don't do it. I feel like we, we feel like we need to be so rigid and it needs to be, all the boxes need to be checked. And I think that's. Again, kind of applying that hustle mentality to our personal growth and, you know, our daily lives when it's, where it's really not necessary.

Right. and I again, feel like it's more sustainable to be a little bit less strict with ourselves. So yeah, that's something I, I do personally that I feel, yeah, helps me a lot as well. other things, like I mentioned notion before, so things I will do every day in Notion is, for example, instead of, measuring how much I got done in the day in terms of tasks, I will at the end of the day, choose which of my core values I embraced, during the day, which ones I embodied basically.

and you know, it won't be all of them all the time, but that allows me to kind of look back and see, you know, which of these things that I have decided matter most to me are maybe getting a bit more or maybe a little bit less attention. So. To me, it's really about figuring out what the metrics are that matter to me, what do I define success by, and then figuring out ways to, you know, track those things or be more mindful of those things in my daily life.

And it doesn't have to look like what somebody else finds meaningful. Right. It's really, it's really deeply personal.

[00:32:22] Hannah: Yeah. Do you mind sharing some of those metrics or some of what is important to you? Because obviously not all of it, but something that you just mentioned about how you don't track your to-dos, but you track. The way you lived up to your values or you know, to one of the values that you have, are there examples that you can share with, like, what that looks like for you or what even success looks like for you, or what meaning looks like for you?

[00:32:50] Chloe: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sure. so one thing, for example that is very important to me is. Kind of being more connected to nature. It's, I, I'm a city girl. I grew up in the city, so I haven't really grown up with this concept. But now that I live near the coast, I have really found that it's really, I. Good for, for us to reconnect with nature.

It, it's also the best teacher when it comes to, you know, everything grows at its own pace. Nothing can bloom all the time. I think it's really what I draw most inspiration from when it comes to, you know, what I share online as well. so to me that's something that's really important to make sure that I go outside.

Also, because I work entirely from home, so it's really easy to stay cooped up also, because I'm very introverted. So I find that my default is to kind of stay inside and stay in my own bubble. I'm perfectly happy just being with my thoughts. So I need to kind of push myself actively to go outside more because I know that that is so fulfilling to me.

So that is something that I want to be intentional about, right? It's something I want to keep an eye on. So whenever I feel like, hmm, lately I'm just not feeling my best, maybe it's just because I literally haven't, you know, touched grass as they say, like I

[00:34:09] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:10] Chloe: Outside. And, you know, some other things that I care about a lot is, you know, more the wellness side of things.

So making sure that I have longevity, that I'm taking care of my body again, because I work from home. I have a very sedentary lifestyle. And even when I'm done with work that I create content. So that's, I'm doing that behind my laptop as well. Right. So, again, those are things that I kind of want to be mindful of and kind of, yeah, remind myself all the time that these are the things that I care about.

something else I really value is, you know, going on little adventures and, you know, kind of rediscovering the things that I like to do when I was young. I feel like that's something, as adults, for some reason, we completely forget what we used to love doing. And usually we still love doing those things.

It's not because we're adults that we shouldn't, you know. Play and you know, I recently bought like a coloring book just to kind of get that nostalgia again. And I still love those things. I still love, you know, being creative and it has been really fulfilling for me to reconnect with those things. So yeah, those are just some examples of things that I like to Yeah.

Be more intentional about, I guess.

[00:35:22] Hannah: I love that, especially because I feel like this, the whole slow movement and, and we've touched on that before, it's like, obviously it became very trendy at some point. And so whenever we, we think slow living these days, we envision somebody like, you know, preparing a matchup for themselves or like spending a slow morning journaling or waking up extremely early and then going to a reformer class.

all things that I have done before. but this is almost like, because it becomes so trendy, it's very aesthetic. And so I love how you bring some of those examples to life of like, how do you slow down in a way that isn't for the aesthetic that isn't, that isn't meant to look good or that isn't meant to.

Check a box or check a metric in a way, for somebody who currently doesn't really know what to do or you know, what some of those things are that, that help them, what would you recommend? How do you find some of the healthy swaps or some of the slow swaps to potentially just succumbing down on the couch watching Netflix?

What do you do instead or how do you find out what to do instead? Because I appreciate it will be different for everyone.

[00:36:37] Chloe: Yeah, for sure. I, I think that's a really great question and. People are very quick to equate slowing down to that very specific thing that we see online. So either, you know, the meditation and the matcha or the more wellness things or the, you know, woman moving to the countryside and growing her own food and raising chickens and baking sourdough bread.

You know, all that stuff that looks really good online, which is of course why it's so trendy. but I find that it kind of dilutes the idea of what slowing down, you know, where it comes from and the idea behind it. 'cause it can look like that for sure, but it really doesn't have to. And like you said, I think it's completely, it's going to look completely different from one person to the other.

You know, for some people it is those more. wellness, see, I wanna say activities for other people. It's going to be very much about changing the way that they consume and, reconnecting with nature, which is something, you know, for me, that plays a big role in it. For other people it's about really rediscovering leisure and hobbies.

you know, there's on online you also see a lot of people kind of trying out new cozy hobbies, you know, that kind of stuff. but that really all depends on what your values are. So I think if you want to, if someone is feeling called to slow down, which I think is great, I think there's some deeper work that needs to happen before where you're like, okay, what.

Matters to me. You know, 'cause to me slowing down, it's not about doing less, but it's about doing more of what matters most to us. And of course you need to know what that is, right? So, yeah, if someone who's listening maybe has never really thought about what their core values are or they have, but they haven't revisited them in quite a while, I think this is something you need to, you know, we're all growing, so it's something you need to revisit every once in a while.

I think that's a great place to start. So, you know, maybe grabbing your journal and asking questions like, when do I feel most like myself? What's have been the peak experiences in my life? What are poor people that I look up to and why? What makes me angry? I think that often gives us a lot of insight into our values as well.

And you know, every time when you answer those questions, keep asking why, right? There's this technique called five times why, and that usually helps you get to really the root of something. And now once you have your answers to all these questions, you can kind of start to recognize patterns, right? And figure out, okay, what are these maybe three to six main things that matter most to me?

And if this is difficult, there are a lot of lists of core values online. Like just look on Google and you'll have lists of hundreds of values and you can kind of see which ones resonate the most, or which ones yeah, feel most aligned with the stuff that you wrote down. Maybe. I think that's a great place to start.

And then based on those, you can think, okay, what would be ways for me on a daily basis to embody these things and to, yeah, bring them into my life. And now slowing down is not just slowing down for the sake of slowing down, but it's slowing down to be able to do more of those things that give your life meaning.

[00:39:40] Hannah: Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I love a good values exercise and just kind of tapping into what is it that, that we really, truly care about? What are we driven by? I always feel like becomes this kind of compass that helps us make the right decisions, or that steers us in the right direction. And, but I've never thought about it in the context of your day or like, you know, even just kind of carving out time for the things that matter most.

and somehow measuring your day by your ability to live up to your values or to live in your values or bring them to life in whatever way, possible. So, I find that really, really helpful. And then looking into what are some of the activities that would help bring that to life and that, you know, could steer you in the right direction.

And also the sentiment of not necessarily doing less, but doing more of what you really, really like. Has this, practice or whenever you, you said that you're on this, on this journey as well, but whenever you feel like you get to do that and you get to live in tune with that, have you seen a difference in yourself or even in your environment and your, you know, the kind of version that you bring to work, the kind of version that you bring into your relationships and to your environment?

Communities?

[00:41:10] Chloe: Definitely. I think mainly because it gives other people permission to kind of do the same. When they see you focus on these things, I, you know, in my relationship and even some colleagues, you know, when they see me give myself permission to maybe slow down or figure out what I want to focus on most in terms of work.

'cause you can apply these things to your life, but you can apply 'em to your work as well, right? Instead of dividing your attention in all these little different projects thinking, okay, in this season I am going to prioritize this because this is what matters to me and maybe to the company that I work for, or to our current goals.

You know? I think slowing down is also about not choosing the path of least resistance, but it is about choosing. and I think. We want to do so many things. We don't really learn how to choose and how to accept the give and take that, you know, is inherently a part of life, of choosing, of prioritizing things.

and I feel like that is something that has really helped me and that I also feel like helps other people who see me put those things into practice of like, accepting my energy is limited, so not everything can matter equally. I think we're all, we know this intuitively, but we're all kind of in this collective delusion that we can be a hundred percent.

In every area of life. And it's kind of a hard pill to swallow that that's not necessarily the case. But it's so freeing when you accept that, you know, if during this season I want to go all in on a specific work goal, then I can't really expect myself to be the best friend, the best parent, workout 5, 10, 5 times a week and try out this new hobby and build this new habit.

Like our energy is, it's just limited. That's just the way it is. and I find it really helpful to, kind of recognize that more often. And that also sets you up for. I guess more self-compassion because we're, we keep setting ourselves up for disappointment, right? When we operate under the illusion that we can do it all.

And so you're going to be left with, you know, self-judgment and you're never going to be able to do all those things as well as you would like. So if you kind of set goals with those limits in mind and kind of respect for your capacity and your energy, then that is going to, yeah, just be a much more fun time.

Right?

[00:43:39] Hannah: I love everything that you just said. I mean, just kind of like the collective illusion, which I certainly buy into when I still try, I think every single day or week, to do it all or to at least feel bad if I don't.and I think it's such an honest truth about where we are as. Women where we are as, well introverts or introspective quieter people in the workplace.

Of course, you also talked about, capacity and how much you can take on. And I think about this time and time again because I always feel like I have spurs of energy. Like I, there I can spend hours on my desk focusing on something and, and working on something and never looking up and I'll be in like a blissful state of deep work.

[00:44:29] Chloe: Yeah.

[00:44:29] Hannah: and then there are just days or or a couple of hours during the day that I just don't really wanna work or don't really wanna do something else and don't really feel that energy anymore. And it's not conducive to a great corporate career because that kind of depends on you being always on every day for at least eight hours, for five days a week.

and I always think to myself, well, I could probably do the work and. Three days or like half the time because of that capacity. Because I feel like I have a good output, but in, in, in less time if I, if I work in the right way.how do you go about that in the workplace? Like the energy that you bring, the social battery that you have?

How do you manage your time? Are there certain things that you do differently to like organize yourself or to show yourself some compassion and like, you know, not judge yourself for what you bring and what limits you also find yourself having?

[00:45:31] Chloe: Hmm.

[00:45:31] Hannah: I.

[00:45:33] Chloe: Yeah, I think in terms of work, I kind of operate in the same way that I do in, in my personal life, except of course in the workplace. I can't always be as honest, you know, you don't want to be saying, I am. Productive for these four hours, and I think I've done maybe more in these four hours than another person may have in eight hours.

but you know,

[00:45:56] Hannah: true.

[00:45:56] Chloe: you work from home, yeah, I think when you work from home you have a little bit more, freedom to do that. And also it just depends on your workplace, right? There are more and more places that are introducing things like four hour work weeks or even, places that, focus on your output.

So you would say, you know, this is my project, this is the task that I need to fulfill. This is the goal that I need to achieve. How much time that takes me doesn't really matter as long as I meet this deliverable. And personally, I think that is at least, would work much better for me. It's not really the type of, company I'm in, unfortunately.

But. If I could choose, then that would be what I would, prefer by far. So the focus is on the deliverable and not necessarily on how much time it takes because some people just are more productive at certain hours of the day

[00:46:47] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:46:48] Chloe: you know, people sometimes. in terms of energy, what you mentioned when I'm at the office, I'm a lot less productive because, you know, of course there are a lot of people talking to me and which I like.

I think it's important to also maintain good relationships with people at work. Right? But it does really take me out of the zone all the time, and it takes a lot of mental energy for me as well. So when I'm at the office, I accept that I'm going to be really productive for only half of the time, you know, whereas where I'm at when I'm at home, I can be productive for a lot longer.

But that means that I can also give myself a bit of grace when I work from home. If, let's say I. Know, I have a slump after lunch. I live in France and we have really big lunches. So the after post-lunch slump is really common.

[00:47:34] Hannah: All that wine for.

[00:47:35] Chloe: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So yeah, there, if I need to, you know, step outside and take a walk, then I give myself permission to do that.

And of course, I fully understand that not everyone is able to be, to do those things. Not everyone is in a situation or a workplace culture where they can do those things. but yeah, if you can, I think it's good to, you know, give yourself a little bit of grace here and there and figure out where you can maybe, yeah, be a little bit more compassionate with yourself during the workday as well.

And like I said, when you do that, I feel like it does inspire your colleagues as well. You know, workplace culture, a lot of times it comes from top to bottom, but you can also do it the other way around, right? I think it's kind of my personal mission at work to show that there is a different way to do things and yeah, hopefully that also can inspire some other people to give themselves a little bit of grace as well.

[00:48:31] Hannah: Hmm, Hmm. I, I really think that's it. It's, it's the grace, it's the self-compassion, the way we speak to ourselves, the way we also talk about ourselves when we're in the room with others. I feel like that makes so much of a difference because again, we collectively like to talk about how much work we have on, or how much of you know of a drainer everything is, or how much workload and it feels, and it can instantly feel like something we all connect about.

and it brings us closer. But equally, it can make such a difference for somebody to say, you know what? That is not my expectation for today, or, I'm actually proud of what I've achieved today and even if it was just this one thing. So it's a lot about the language that, how we speak to ourselves, how we speak about ourselves in the workplace.

And I feel like, that's exactly it. What you've talked about this, compassion and grace and, you know, being nice to ourselves.one of the things that often come up with slow living and taking it slower is how much of a privilege that seems to be and how much of it feels like that. Not everybody can do it.some of the things you mentioned though, do feel like they're accessible to everyone and it feels like it's a lot of work that happens within ourselves. It's not necessarily whether you can afford the yoga class or whether you can afford the time to.spend going for a walk during your workday or whatever this looks like, but it is really about that inner work.

how, how do you feel about slowing down being a privilege or that being perceived as something that is not accessible to everyone?

[00:50:20] Chloe: Yeah. Well I think what you mentioned, I definitely agree it is mostly a mindset. It's the way that you show up in your days. Right? but that being said, you know, we can't deny that there are some structural forces that determine who gets to slow down. Right. I think. A lot of the people who would benefit the most from slowing down are often the ones who are the least able to simply because they are most affected by these forces that make slowing down necessary in the first place.

Right? So I think that's something that we, I. Need to acknowledge and you know, to me when we talk about slowing down, it's good to also talk about those things and also talk about ways in which we can make it more accessible for those people. Which I think part of it is just sharing, ways and practices that everyone can do.

So, you know, a little while back I talked about this online and there were some people in the comments who were sharing their experiences, and one person I remember said that they grew up with a single immigrant parent. so it was very difficult. They had to work a lot and were struggling to, you know, make ends meet.

And they had this vivid memory of their mother every day, you know, sitting down with a home cooked meal and kind of closing her eyes and thinking of one thing that she was grateful for that day and that really did make an impact on them, even when times were very difficult. someone else I remember mentioned that they lived in the city and they really wanted to kind of.

You know, be more intentional about what they were consuming and grow their own food. But they didn't have a garden and so they decided to create like a little window sill garden. And I feel like those ideas, that's something that I would like to see so much more of online in this space. But unfortunately it's not what is, you know, as trendy, I think as the things that we're seeing now.

And I think that's just what happens when a concept or a movement like this becomes a social media trend. It's kind of inevitable, unfortunately. It's what happened with self-care and wellness. You know, as soon as brands start to kind of tap into those ideas, then it also gets a little bit commodified and diluted maybe.

but I think people who are talking about this, we can make an effort to share ways that are. That anyone can do, or that at least as many people as possible can do. and that will be a step in the right direction. And then if we can also acknowledge the circumstances that make it so difficult for, for people and for a lot of people, then that's even better.

Right? If we can also shift the conversation to those things so we're not just talking about how can I slow down, but we're talking about how could we make slowing down a possibility for someone else in the future.

[00:53:10] Hannah: I, and again, I think this is why your work is extremely important and just kind of showing ways to, to do this more unconventionally, you know, not just the, the pretty things, but also some of the things that get underestimated or that are not as visible or that somebody tried and just kind of shining a light on them, I feel like is so important.

where I almost wanna end because conscious of time. I feel what I wanna, know from you is almost like what can, what is one thing that everyone can do or, you know, take away or. Used to slow things down a little bit. Like something that, maybe is even seasonal because I know that you are such into seasonal and now that it's, you know, summertime it's becoming warmer in Europe, everywhere really.

And I feel like there must be so many different things that we can all try out that are maybe a little more unconventional or out of the ordinary. What comes to mind for you?

[00:54:12] Chloe: Mm sure. Yeah. I love anything seasonal, which is also something that's fairly new for me. 'cause yeah, like I said, I used to be very much a city girl. I wasn't even paying attention to the seasons, really. but I find that when we start doing that. It just inspires so much presence because each season is only there for, well, a season, for a limited amount of time and it offers different things.

So something I really like to do and that I would encourage everyone to try is at the start of a new season, personally I like to do this during like the solstice or the Equinox. So really the start of the season, turn it into like a little ritual. I will think about, you know, what does this season bring in terms of, you know, foods, what, what foods are in season.

For example, now in spring, I'm eating so much asparagus because this is the time when it's, it's there, it's really good. And so I'm enjoying it to the fullest and so I'm appreciating it a lot more as well. I think we are so disconnected, nowadays from those things we can basically have almost any food that we want all the time, but that doesn't lead to a lot of appreciation I find.

So now I'm like looking up spring recipes on Pinterest and having lots of fun with that. but also what are some, you know, seasonal activities that I want to do. So I really want to have a picnic. I haven't had a picnic this season yet, so, you know, just create a little bucket list for yourself of things that you want to experience in the current season.

Maybe if you wanna take it a little bit deeper, maybe also do some journaling about what does this season kind of represent. So, you know, in spring it's more about maybe a good time to create new plans or kind of tap into that, you know, new life energy. whereas in the winter you might want to give yourself permission to rest a little bit more because there's less daylight.

Each season has different energies that we are, we can connect to a little bit more if we want. for some people it might be a little bit too woo woo, which I would understand as well. But I think for all of us, it's good to be a little bit more connected to what's going on outside because we're part of it as well.

As much as we try to pretend that we're not maybe, so yeah, just create a little bucket list for the current season and then, you know, you'll get to appreciate it so much more. I think.

[00:56:30] Hannah: Hmm. I love how it has intention and how it goes back to where am I at? What's the season around me that, you know, what does it have to offer and how can I lean into that with more intention, with more proactivity, and then also feeling it a little more intensely. now that you mentioned asparagus.

Obviously that's all the rage in, in Germany. So, I'll be going to the market, getting some asparagus, buying some peonies and, stuff like that. I, I really, really like that and I absolutely get how this is something that I feel like it's not often talked about. So I love that on your account.and it's something that is available to all of us because we're all, most of us in the world, have or can experience different seasons, different weather, different, you know, obviously types of growth that we're in.

[00:57:25] Chloe: Yeah, absolutely. I think. Like you said, it's one of the things that most of us can fairly easily do. And like I mentioned before, I think it's one of the best lessons in terms of, you know, kind of changing our rhythms. If you can kind of take your cues from the season a little bit, I think that's really helpful.

And also whatever season is, the season outside doesn't have to necessarily be the way you feel. So also respecting whatever season you're in personally. And you know, I think when you feel like you are in need of change or you're wanting to focus on something a bit different, doing that exercise of looking at what matters most in this season, what do I want to give my energy to, and what in turn has to become less of a priority in order for that to happen.

I like to kind of visualize it as this circle this pie chart with these different life areas. And you can, let's say you have five life areas and they can all have like five energy points. That would be 25. But then I would say, okay, but I only have 15 points to spend, so where am I going to spend them?

And so now I'm kind of visualizing that limit that I have, and now I can focus on those things and make sure that they happen without all of that stress and pressure that we tend to impose upon ourselves.

[00:58:43] Hannah: It goes back to that idea of give and take that you mentioned, which I think is extremely powerful. Chloe, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really, really enjoyed talking to you. I could have gone on for hours. maybe we will at some point, but,

[00:58:59] Chloe: Yeah. I'd

[00:59:00] Hannah: can everyone find you connect with you? I mean, well, I will definitely link your Instagram because it is my favorite account, honestly, that there, there is Chef Kiss.

[00:59:11] Chloe: Aw,

[00:59:11] Hannah: Hands down and then the beautiful notion boards. I'm a big fan of notion too, so I love nothing more than a neat notion template. And you are the queen, the absolute queen. So where can everyone find you? Connect and, yeah, potentially try out some of those templates. It's,

[00:59:30] Chloe: Yeah, sure. So, I think the best way to find me is on Instagram, so it's at slow self.co. And, if you wanna check out the website, it's the same thing, slow self.co. And that's where. I think on Instagram you'll find all of the resources, right? So the notion templates, I, every year I create a goal setting template.

So, you know, if people are wanting to, it's already half, half of the year, but, you know, there's always, always a good time to kind of get a little bit

[00:59:56] Hannah: I think

[00:59:56] Chloe: So if people want to, try that out, yeah, they can find that over there. And, yeah. I wanna thank you for this really nice conversation. I always feel really seen by the way that you phrase questions.

They're so thoughtful and I think that's really a, a testament to you as an interviewer. So, yeah, really appreciated that.

[01:00:16] Hannah: Thank you very, very much for coming.

[01:00:18] Chloe: Thank you.