00:00 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

I love that I can see your cat in this video that no one can see, but they're just listening to. You have a pretty cat.

00:07 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah, she's so cute, she's super snuggly. She'll like come up to me and meow and like rub against your leg and she wants me to hold her. So then I have to hold her for a while and carry her around. So cute, like a baby. Oh, that's sweet, she's a good little girl.

00:28 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Well, so what's going on with you?

00:31 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Well, I mean, it's Valentine's Day, it is.

00:35 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

People will probably hear this like a month from now, but that's okay. I mean, yeah, it's raining in Minnesota on Valentine's Day, which is creepy, and it's like 40 degrees.

00:47 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

It's been so warm all week.

00:49 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

It's supposed to be like 20 degrees. Just for people that don't like, we're supposed to have piles of snow on the ground. This is the deep freeze of winter. Instead, it's all melting and it's raining and it's just weird. It's a strange, strange winter.

01:03 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah, I'm curious like what flooding I'll be like in the spring, because it usually there's certain areas where it just always floods every year. My grandparents farm, for example, and we got so much snow. I don't remember ever seeing this much snow since I was a kid, and now it's rapidly melting.

01:20 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, I wonder if it'll help the flooding, if it's kind of like because it's melting and freezing and melting and freezing, so we got rid of like half of it. I don't know how any of that works.

01:30 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Science.

01:31 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Science, how are you? Pretty good. So we usually record every couple of weeks or so and trying to think of anything that's happening. Since we last spoke in photo world, I just did some minis. I rented a house.

01:47 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Oh yeah, I saw that and I thought that was so cool that you rented a house.

01:52 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

It was so cool and I'm going to for sure do it again because it's such a different vibe than a studio. But now that there's some of these options available where you can actually go into someone's home, it's ideal because you know it's cozy and it's got like that home feel.

02:08 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

So yeah, was it through Airbnb or was it someone you knew whose house you use?

02:13 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

It's a client of mine who also posts it on like Peer Space or whatever. Okay, and so we traded and then I did the photos there and paid the difference of whatever I don't even think I paid this time which is a great deal.

02:29 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

I feel like my brain is, my creative wheels are spinning. I'm like, ooh, I could find like a really cute little cabin and do like so many things. I never really thought about renting a house.

02:40 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Do you remember how we started a business called Photo Spaces?

02:43 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Sure do, sure do. Do you remember how the pandemic started and then ruined everything?

02:49 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

So for people that don't know this and I still have the LLC and all the accounts and everything but I started a company right before COVID called Photo Spaces and we. The idea was that photographers could rent out unique spaces so not studios, cool restaurants, cool houses, cool whatever and rent those places out to use for like one hour-ish photo shoots. So it was meant for people that do a lot of like headshots and things like that. And the broader dream was like imagine going to any city and just pulling it up and being like, oh my gosh, look at all these, all these cool places that I could possibly shoot. And Peer Space is doing that and Airbnb to some extent, but we were kind of digging into some of the cooler, I guess, restaurants and like yeah, record stores, yeah record stores, that kind of stuff.

03:41

You know old diners, that kind of thing just to give people like places that are operating you know as businesses essentially. And then COVID hit. So that was fun.

03:54 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

I still think that's such a cool idea. I don't know.

03:57 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, it's a lot of work, but I think you know I don't know why I'm talking about this to everyone, but I guess we'll see what happens with it if we ever bring it back. I don't know if I'm built to run a business like that, but at the same time, you know it's like the best businesses solve a problem that you have.

04:16 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah.

04:17 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

And it's definitely a problem.

04:19 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah, especially here in the Midwest when it's like it is outside right now for half the year.

04:27 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

I know it's gross. Right now is like the grossest day. It's like dirty snow and it's wet and it's cold. It's just gross. It doesn't matter how hardcore outdoors you are. This isn't fun weather Period.

04:42 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Everything is like one color Gray. It's hard to explain, but it's like everything is just kind of this grayish, poopy brownish, gray, poopy brown. The sky, the snow, the trees, pretty soon, my little bee spraying.

05:00 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, but anyway, all that to say, it was great fun to shoot in a house and I'm going to do it again. I did headshots and a couple of small families. One of the things if you're going to experiment with minis indoors, especially if you're in a crappy weather place, one of the things that was really important that I'm glad that I mentioned in the initial sign up for the mini announcements, was groups of six or less. So the last thing you want to do is be in this cute house with you know nice little couches and spaces and then have a family of eight or 10 sign up because there's just not there just isn't the space to do that kind of thing, unless it's a giant house.

05:44

Fair enough, you can make that call, but I really don't enjoy shoots bigger than like six ish. So I just made that call and I understand if you have five kids, that sucks, but you know I just you have to wait for the outdoor ones then because, or if you want to have extended family, that sucks too. Because I was just really firm on the six, yeah, and it just made it so much less stressful to just know that. Like the biggest group I had was four. Well, I guess five, the family that owns the house, but one of them's a little baby, so it's not like trying to get like eight adults right, all like posing and I don't know.

06:20 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah, it's a disservice to them If you have them in a space that's not actually going to look good and work for their photos. They should know, you know yeah. I have an indoor extended family. It's a smaller extended family. It's like seven people this weekend. Seven's not bad, but yeah, fine.

06:44

And I kind of explained like we'll just do some pose stuff, but they really want more documentary style. They're making brunch playing cards, so we got some activities. Yeah, I'm excited I haven't done a lot of shooting and I like am itching, yeah me either.

07:02 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Well, I just did a. I did a story session brunch with a family where I went to their house and it was, I think, like 10 of them. But because it was a story session, it was an hour and so there was no pressure. You know, it's like I had the time I needed to set up the shots and kind of really take my time grouping people and that kind of stuff. And I think Maybe the point I'm making is, if you're gonna do mini sessions, mine are 15 minutes and you're gonna try and get like a huge group of good photos, it's just you don't have the the time.

07:34

So I think there is a difference in the the type of shoot you're doing too right.

07:40 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

I Feel like this is a good segue into the question that I was gonna ask. Yeah, I don't even know what your question is. I'm like I don't even know if I know what my question is. I just know that I need some guidance on okay. So For the last couple years I've been, I feel like every 12 months, I go through this like midlife crisis, creative crisis type thing where I'm just like, oh, something doesn't feel right, I need to blow it all up. I don't like my editing at some things off and I feel like I've figured out the solution but I don't know how to implement it. And the problem was that there's kind of two types of portrait sessions that I do. One is more of a mini session vibe. They just want quick, updated photos at a park. You know, I don't want to say generic, that doesn't sound Like a few good ones.

08:41 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

That's that, what's my language.

08:43 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Do you just need a few good ones like that's kind of most yeah, because you'll get those inquiries, but I just need a few good photos for whatever, and that to me is mini session vibes. And then Then I have my longer sessions, which are about an hour. But I would get people that kind of wanted that Generic in the fields pose for an hour and I just can't do. I don't have that in me. It I can get it done in 15 minutes.

09:09

We don't need the hour, yeah, so I was trying to figure out how I can make my longer sessions just have more depth to them and I'm really leaning into like the lifestyle narrative, documentary, storytelling vibe, yeah, and I really want this year for those sessions to be very curated per client. So I'm planning to do like a Zoom planning call with them and a questionnaire and stuff. I just don't know how to pitch this to the client base that I have, because people are so used to me doing things a certain way that I don't know how to get people on board On board with your, your mini clients are.

09:57 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Your shorter sessions wouldn't be affected by this, but it's your people that are currently booking you for an hour, but they, like, think that they need to be in a field for an hour when you can do it.

10:07 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah, shorter and they're kind of yep and they're kind of leaning on me to guide and direct them the whole time for the hour. But really I want To have something for them to do so that I can just kind of document their interaction.

10:21 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

That's making sense like a thousand percent. I mean, that's what. That's exactly what I, that's what I do. I mean I broke it down to minis or story sessions and that's it. So, yep, and what happened was, is some of the folks that used to pay me more now just wait for minis? But that's okay, because my mini list is growing like crazy, because I have a good pop up for it. It's a great offer and they sell out every single time. So that's amazing. Yep, the story sessions. I'm just, it's just that over communicating kind of thing we talk about all the time, like making sure it's laid out for them. But I just suggest Activities. I say like, look, I'll pose you a little bit. We'll get some good ones, like some more casual good ones of all of you and combinations of you the same kind of thing I would do in a mini session.

11:08

So they have like directly at camera, kind of happy, posey ones. But I just tell them, I give them a list of activities so and a list of props, and so, for example, my one of my favorite ones I did this year was Baking Christmas cookies. So I showed up and they were all set up to bake and I just documented about 45 minutes of them baking and laughing, and occasionally I'd be like look at me, and sometimes I'd just be focused on details or the dog or whatever. And then the last 15 minutes I did portraits of the family, just, you know, on their couch or whatever. Okay, and it was awesome, it was great. So it's like almost like the last 15 minutes, it's like you're working in a mini into like this other scene.

11:52 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

I did a lakeside.

11:55 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

What are they called like?

11:56

like a big waterslide party for a bunch of kids where they had like a water slide and a bouncy, housey, waterslide kind of thing, and Like fun little snacks, and I mean you can shoot that kind of stuff all day because there's so much going on. But if it's a family, that's like what do we do? I mean this one family I did just like a sprinkler out in the yard, you know. I mean it was just like, and then like they had snacks afterwards or yeah, it's just, I think another family this summer I did like Playing around by they live on a lake, playing around by the water, and then they did a bonfire with marshmallow roasting at the end and like an hour goes by pretty fast.

12:34

But also you can get a lot of images in an hour. So and then the the only differentiator I have. So I have three packages. I have a short story session which is 30 minutes, but it's still like 850 or something like that. So it's still a good price point and that's just Almost like a mini, but at someone's house. So I don't try to like force an activity, but it's still worth it to me at that price point to, within the metro, go to someone's house for that, for that half. I mean it's a half an hour, it's just a double mini for a great rate. I.

13:04 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Do you get a lot of people booking the 30 minutes, or a lot of people?

13:08 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

book that and it's actually okay. Yeah, it's never. I'm never like oh, because again there's no. We talked about resentment. There's no resentment if your price points right, mm-hmm, if you're doing it for 450, that's different than, like I said, if you double it, you're gonna be like Fine with it. You know, and again, I, I can deliver a lot, and so can you in a half an hour, so I don't. They're paying for a lot of different levels of value. I guess you know, like the fact that I can't get that many photos in that short of time, blah, blah, blah. But my other two story sessions are just based on number of images and then like albums included and stuff like that. And they can trade. Okay, some people I offer like, if you don't want a book, you can just get more images, and they're like. Some people will be like, yeah, we'll have, we'll take 15 more images instead of the book, or whatever the numbers are.

13:57 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

So you have a the minis of 30 minute in a one hour. Yep, in your one hour you offer a book built into the price.

14:04 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yes, actually no, I have a one hour and a 90 minute, so my story sessions are 30, 60, 90. The minis I just think of as like separate, you know okay, and the 30 is just the same.

14:15

Yep, and then the 60 90 have a book involved. Okay, I have like a higher because I want to also include a book. It's like $2,500. And that's like, if you want me to come to your Cabin for the afternoon or something, yeah, or go to the state fair for half the day, that's just. It's more like almost like an event or like half of a wedding, right, you know, because you're there for maybe two or three hours and that's a lot of photos. So, right, I do have a lot of packages, but like it, it really feels Simple, because minis are just minis. And then it's like you just want a story session.

14:48

People that go for that bottom story session Do you usually do it because they feel like minis are too short or they want to do it somewhere Other than the mini park. You know, and even if folks wanted to go to the field, it's still just 30 minutes instead of an hour, and so once we get into that hour mark, right, anything above the hour, I stress really strongly like you don't want to do this unless you have some kind of activity. You don't need to do this unless you have an activity, right. This is why, and so I haven't found myself this year at all, getting people where you're trying to fill an hour Because they just wanted to go to the field, because they know that, like, oh, that hour isn't necessary, let's just do the half an hour.

15:26 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah and the hour of just Me trying to direct it it started to. It's really draining for me, but I also don't think it's the best for them. I'm like we could be spending this time Getting some different kinds of photos here. That would really really be meaningful to you. We can get some of these nicer in the field ones, but then we could be doing something else and I think I need to just work on that for sure. My other pain point is Pricing, because I've always been Someone that shoots for an hour Out of set price and then I just give you the gallery like yeah, with all the good ones right, and every year I've increased my prices more and more so.

16:08

But now this is different. This is a different Field. There's more work that goes into it. I want you to get a book. I just want it to be much higher quality experience, but I feel like I'm gonna have to double my price. How do I not like scare away all the clientele that I've built, when they're expecting this certain thing, by doubling my prices? I mean, I have certain families that come every year and they do want the one hour. I think it's communication because, like my Families.

16:40 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Once I changed my rate, a lot of my Repeat families just went down to that short story session because I told them, after years of working with them, I said, trust me, you will get All of the images in this amount of time. We can do this, you're gonna get enough. Yeah, if for some reason you're not happy with it, you know like the next year will do longer, but you know 30 minutes is gonna be more than enough time to get what you need. We used to do an hour. This is why I don't, and the other reason I gave people for not doing an hour. So they get 15 and I'm looking at my price the short story session. They get 15 images to download and keep all of my story sessions. I give them proofing options. So they're looking at a proofing gallery and they're choosing their favorites and then I'm going in and editing them.

17:25

Whereas, like you and I've talked about, we've done episodes. Go back and check on these two if you're interested. We've done episodes on how we run minis and it's Really nice just to edit the mini. Give them 50, 40 images, whatever, they get 10 and if they want to buy all of them, fine. But that extra 15 minutes of editing doesn't really it's worth it, for how many people buy the whole gallery and sending people in coordinating proofing galleries is a nightmare. If you have 25 minis in two weeks or something, or even 10 minis, it's just like a lot. So I don't do proofing with minis but I do proofing with all three of my story sessions the short, the regular hour, in the 90 minutes.

18:05

And that's amazing because people just look at their gallery and they're like they choose ones that I would never choose. Sometimes you know I'm like why did they want that one? But I you forget that they're choosing for emotion and you're choosing for aesthetic because you're a photographer and you don't. Yeah, anyway, all that to say, so they get 15. They can buy more for 15 each. So my average short story client spends the initial fee plus. They usually buy Usually five to ten more photos, sometimes a lot more photos. Sometimes people ask me can we just have the whole gallery? And then I give them a rate for that and it's usually about the cost of the Shoot. So it's like I'm never feeling resentful about what I'm doing, because 15 images is like Really fun to edit too, because you know that they love them and you're like, oh, I get to edit just 15.

18:55 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah, for someone who maybe isn't familiar with what proofing is, that means like you get home you call down To the best ones and you don't edit them, but you put them in a gallery for the client to see and then the client can go through and pick the number amount that they get, plus extras if they decided they want extras, and then you just edit those ones and deliver.

19:19 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, and not just because pick times a sponsor, but because I love pick time. Pick time offers an amazing proofing capability that interfaces with lightroom. So, yeah, you can share the gallery connected to lightroom. They can pick their favorites. Let's say they pick 20 instead of 15. I sync it up and I can see the 20 in lightroom that they picked in pick time, which is brilliant. So it's all ready to go, ready to edit.

19:45

Then I usually just send them a PayPal dot me link for the additional images. It's just. I just say they'll say we've chosen our finals, we've got some extras in there, and then I'll say, great, here's the link to your extras. Once that's paid, I'll start editing and that's my process. Yeah, it's so easy. They almost always choose more than what's included, but not always, and I'm still not resentful of that, because 15 is a great number to edit. You know you're not editing a Bagillion. Yeah, because in 30 minutes I shoot, I shoot a lot. So, yeah, I also try to take the workload off of them a little. So when I am calling for proofs, I really try to get rid of as many duplicates and crappy photos as possible. I really try to Curate it so that it is a good gallery that they see, even though it's unedited. Does that makes that's good?

20:32 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah, yeah, no, that makes total sense when it comes to, like, the clientele that I have and Making this drastic change on them, probably doubling my price. What do you suggest I do to? Because I it's not a pricing issue. I think I'm not doing a good enough job Explaining the value of what I'm going to offer them, because if they understood how valuable it was, I don't think the price would be as much of a shock.

20:59 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

And if you offer something like my short story session is at the same price point as my hour used to be, so people might go like, oh, I'm only getting 30 minutes and I'm paying the same as I used to pay for an hour, that might bother, like one in every 25 people. But honestly, like if they know you and you've worked with them before, I feel like for me, they trust me and they love their photos and so if yeah, so if I say to them look, this is just so much more Time efficient for me. It's less for you and the kids, because a lot of times people are like, oh, that was perfect, we don't need to do this for because you, an hour is long for people unless they have something to do. Yeah, I mean, an hour gets to be. I mean, I don't do a lot of 90 minutes. The 90 minute ones I've done.

21:42

Where that that brunch I told you about, I think I might have said it was an hour, but we did 90 minutes and that was perfect because they were making a whole meal and eating it, you know. But like if they didn't have that to do, it would have been. I mean, I would have been done in 20 minutes, you know. So I think I think okay back to. I think people will understand, but I did hit a little bump With all of. I mean, I had 10 years of clients that were like, oh so now I only get 15 images, or now I only get 30 images.

22:10 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah.

22:11 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

And I just had to explain to them very clearly for me to edit all of the images that you were getting before 50, 60, 70 or more, you know, is not efficient. But I've also found that folks, when they go to print things, generally only use like 10 to 20 images. They don't use more than that, and so I would tell them that over and over and over. I would say my research in 10 years of doing this is that most people don't need more than 15 to 30 images, and so it wasn't just time efficient for me. So you know, try it this way. You'll probably see that you get just as many that you're happy with and you can always buy more if you want. And they like knowing they can buy more.

22:52

But there were only a couple of people that were a little like right, and I'm sure I've lost a couple of people. I mean I can definitely think of people I haven't heard from, but I've also gained a lot of you know. I mean I think it's you're always going to kind of have to play that game, but I think yeah.

23:06 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Oh yeah, I just yeah, this is great, the wheels are turning. I'm also wondering because I did a 30 minute session last year and I wasn't, wasn't my favorite. It was kind of like, okay, these are two, an extra long mini session, but I can see the value from the client's end and I wonder if I just offered like a 30 minute to any past clients. But future clients, I really just want minis.

23:33 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you can totally do that, because I allow people to double book minis. So I say like, if you think you need more time, you're welcome to book two minis back to back, right, and if you have more than six people, I recommend that you do that. So I actually have a few clients that like, meet me at the park and we do a half an hour because they're booking back to back minis and that's great. The thing that the 30 minute provided me with was, again that price point. It kept a lot of people at the same price point but they had less time with me, but they were still happy. And then it also was enough money to make it worth my time to go to their house, Like a lot of people just wanted to be at their house.

24:08

So that was like the big you know. So it's like someone could do two minis in a row and they're at the park, because you can't choose that, because that's how many work. Or someone might be like my grandparents are in town and they they're going to hang out with the new baby and we'd love to be in our backyard and we don't need a ton of photos. Okay, we'll do 30 minutes in your backyard and that was a great, great price point because I never felt again within the Twin Cities. I'm not driving like really far, but I never felt resentful going to their house for 30 minutes to do something like that. I mean, it's nothing, you know.

24:40 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Is your 30 minute then the price of too many?

24:43 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

No, the price of too many sessions is less, but the 30 minute is just a little bit more. I mean, everything about minis is value. That's why people are like jumping all over them, right? So Yep. But it's close, yeah, okay.

24:56 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Okay, cool, this helps a lot.

24:58 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, between that 650 and 850 range for 30 minutes I find is great, yeah. And then, uh, let's see, my one hour is 950 and my 90 minutes is 1450. And that's last year's prices. So I think we're going to go 850, like 1150 and maybe a little like I'm going to bump them a little bit because I was so busy last year.

25:19 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

I just I'm excited to like after. Thanks for this 30 session, by the way, no, I mean, this was the thing that I was struggling with.

25:27 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, I was super struggling with this. Coming out of COVID, I was like how can I get away from going to a park for an hour? Because people think they need an hour at a park? Yeah, Because you're. They're not quote unquote doing anything. You're just in a field and it's a bajillion photos and it's a pain in the ass to edit because they're not proofing anything. So you're editing, like so many all around. It's just you get resentful because you're not you're not making enough money in that scenario for your time. Right?

25:56 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

And usually by the end of the hour people are a little cranky, Like you can just feel that it's longer than it needs to be. So much longer. You really can just be like, okay, now what? Now we got to. Let's go over here and do the exact same thing we did over here, but in this spot, because what else are we going to do? Yeah?

26:11 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

And if you're a fast shooter, like we are, all you have to do is say like, hey, if you'd like anything beyond 30 minutes. The way it works is we pick a couple of activities. It could be as simple as chalk and bubbles in the driveway, but like there must be some things going on in addition to like just me being there. Maybe we walk to the park or something. Like there just has to be something Movie night, whatever, maybe not at night, but movie evening, so you have nice light, yeah, yeah, and people are really receptive to that. They're like oh, and that's why I have books in that hour long and 90 minute one, because books, books and storytelling work really well together, so it ends up looking really pretty Well. Hopefully that helped some people and you helped one person.

26:54 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

I'm glad.

26:55 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Oh, it feels good, though, because I actually, this last year was the first year that I didn't show up to shoots feeling resentful. I felt like everything was going the way. It finally felt like that stuff, that you're like that stickiness, you're like, oh, this, this shoot, yeah, that's what I've been feeling and I always talk people down, like a lot of people are like, why would you tell someone to pay less? Well, if someone's like, do you think we need 90 minutes, I'll be like no, I think you'll be fine with 60. Right, you know, I'm not gonna put people just for a little extra money Like I'm not gonna put myself through extra shooting or other. I'm gonna be honest with people, you know. I mean, I think that always goes better.

27:35 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yeah, totally. What are you working on this this week, this year?

27:39 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Well, I am gonna tweak what we just talked about a little bit, meaning like pricing and maybe just like the the type and quality of the books included. I might just play around with an olacart thing, but for the most part I'm gonna leave everything kind of as it is. I'm gonna try and do more studio experimenting, so like the house that I just shot at for many's. I'm gonna try and do like more fun indoor stuff in all of the seasons except for the fall, because the fall is beautiful, the lights beautiful. I love being outside in the fall and it's rare that you have to reschedule anything but the rest of the year.

28:14

I'm. I'm interested in playing around with like some indoor settings because it gives me more times in the day I can shoot, because I don't mind shooting at any time of day if it's indoors, that that bright sunlight doesn't bother me. Yeah, just kind of having like a different thing to do. Let's try out some different studio rentals and different houses and stuff like that and just see how it goes. That's about it, and then pushing my headshots a little bit more again, because I really enjoy that.

28:41 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

I was just talking to someone about indoor shoots and I'm like I honestly love indoor shoots because I just feel like you can just be a lot more creative. I love doing in-home stuff because every home is different, every location is different. You have to find the nooks and crannies that work in each space and I don't know, it's just not cookie cutter. I love doing indoor stuff.

29:06 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

And the light falls. So, like just the way light falls through windows and people's houses, you just get these, these really lovely moments, you know. And I think that's maybe a tricky thing to communicate to people is like really making sure they understand that they will get some posey pictures in a story session, but that what it's really about, you know, showing that it's about like these little moments, you know, and making sure that they can see that, because you don't want a family that just expects super posey, posey stuff and doesn't like any of your artsy you know beam of light falling on a hand, kind of vibe or whatever. You know what I mean.

29:42

Yeah, I mean yeah, so just making sure you have good examples. I think to show people is helpful, awesome, yeah. No, I mean I'm not doing too much with photo this year, so we'll just I'm just gonna let it ride. I am gonna dig in the Onamie's simple sales system a little bit and see if maybe that'll be my big change, because that's gonna be a big, big change. But I don't know if that'll be this year, maybe next year it's really nice to be in a place for the.

30:09 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

You can just let the wheel spin. I feel like I'm really close to that too, of just like I have a few more things to figure out and then I'm just gonna let the business go for a while. It's great.

30:22 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

You've built a beautiful job for yourself that you like, that you control. You know I love that. It feels easier. It feels much more open and easy than it ever has. I feel like I, all of these years of doing this and again I can't stress enough for people listening, like I have to say this because it just drives me nuts. As an educator, like you have to try out stuff and figure out what works for you. Like you might be listening, going 30 minutes is never enough for me. Well then, don't do that. Like, if you need time and you're like a slow shooter, it's just different than how I shoot, so make sure that you're, make sure that you're experimenting until it feels good, but feels good for you, you know, I mean, I could tell you exactly what I do, not you necessarily anybody listening and just might not be for you.

31:07 - Audrey Nicole (Host)

Yep, that's such good advice. That goes for anything in life. You know, you don't just copy what you see, you got it. I mean, you can try, get inspiration and try something that someone else does, and you have to try and then you have to decide if it actually works for you or not.

31:22 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, amen, all right, cool. Well, thanks, audrey, I'll talk to you soon. Yeah, okay, bye, bye.