PJ Ellis (00:38)

How are you mate? Anyone you okay?

Andy (00:38)

I'm

good, yeah, I'm very good. Some people would say I'm very busy. I would say I'm blessed with lots of opportunities to do stuff and meet some amazing people and hopefully make a bit of a contribution. But this week started with me going to the Peaky Blinders movie premiere, The Immortal Man, great film. Got to see it on the big screen if you've not seen it

PJ Ellis (01:02)

I didn't get invited, do you mean? I think that's because you are the president of the Birmingham Chamber of Commerce, man.

cool, isn't it? do you think, that's going to create opportunity in the region, mate?

Andy (01:12)

Well, every country I go to I travel in. everybody seems to say, oh, Peaky Blinders. So it is quite iconic to bring stuff back to the city, isn't it? And it's everywhere. I think it does bring opportunity. And do you know what? Stephen Knight premiered it in Birmingham first before London, before LA. And there's someone whose Bromia is hot.

and has got the passion for the city. And is also really keen to get a direct flight link between Birmingham and America, which again is something would definitely benefit the business community here.

PJ Ellis (01:48)

Yeah, I've heard good things about that, mate. I mean, we were very adamant that we know it's not going to happen, but all of a sudden now it seems like it might. You know what I liked actually, I never joke about me not being invited. What I did like about, and I think you told me this actually, the Likely Lads weren't there. You know, it wasn't a Birmingham event. It was a global worldwide Netflix event. People were flying in to an event they didn't even know where it was until 12 o'clock. I mean, how cool is that? It's amazing.

Andy (02:14)

Yeah,

mate, and I don't let's not overstate me going there. I had to go in via the back entrance. I managed to slide onto the side of the red carpet, right? But it was so well done by Netflix who really took control of it. And the guys at B Music, the Huawei and Symphony Hall did a brilliant job of kind of hosting the spectacular. It sold out, it was 1900 people in there in the auditorium and the sound was just fantastic. And then you kind of come out of that building, you see all the

When you first went in, all the cameras, Cillian Murphy turned up, made the effort. It's just a good vibe. But when you stand there in Centenary Square and you look around and you see Symphony Hall, you see the Rep, you see the library with its lights on, you see HSBC's magnificent head-off, you see the exchange building for Birmingham University, and the hotels on Broad Street were full on Monday because you're right, loads of international travellers were invited.

PJ Ellis (02:47)

Yeah.

Mm.

Andy (03:12)

but also came over for the event, particularly from America. So that itself will have driven money into our economy just by hosting that premiere.

PJ Ellis (03:19)

And that's how your week started and your week sort of ended by a lady you've never met running up to you yesterday after another long day saying, love your podcast. I mean.

Andy (03:29)

Yeah, yeah,

yeah, it's good, mate. What you want to hear, isn't it? know, our experiment is a little over seven months old and seeing where we could get to with this and I'm chuffed with where we are. What about you?

PJ Ellis (03:43)

I'm chuffed that I'm literally talking to a VIP in the sense that he started the week at Peaky Blinders and then he's ended the week being accosted by a lady that supports our pod, which actually makes it all worthwhile. And actually I think what I'm really buzzing about is that...

And I'm feeling this now and maybe we can talk about this today is actually we've got so much more to do and to play with. I mean, this, this is turning into a real thing. So I want to build capacity into this.

I mean, when do we start calling it a business, mate? Do we call it a business?

Andy (04:18)

Yeah, definitely, definitely. And, you know, if you think about what the opportunity we have, okay, so there's, it is all about the seventh, eighth month test we've been doing, you know, we through simple stages, you know, could we come up with a concept? Could we get a guest? Would anyone listen to it? And that turned into, could we do an event? Could we do a really big event? Could we get sponsors? Could we get speakers? Could we get people to turn up? So

Really, when you look back, let's be honest and open, we invested about two grand of our money, we reckon, give or take, right, in this test. And I think I love people to take this message away who listen to this today. We often say, press go. And it's so easy to overthink things. If you just live test and see what happens, you will have a big advantage versus the majority of people who tend to plan to death.

We're just learning all the time, aren't we? We've got to the point now, we've got all those little lessons and insights, and we're starting to plan some big things with some big meetings with some big companies. Pumped!

PJ Ellis (05:21)

Yeah,

yeah, I think for me I've learned how to, you've got to build that trust, haven't you, with the people that you're doing it with as well. You know, so it's like, hang on, we're both aligned, we both think we know where we're going, that direction of travel I think is bang on, and we just leave each other to it and things happen.

I think the Witt and Grit live event, was, I mean, I still haven't come down from that to be fair. I don't think I've unpacked that, if I'm completely honest. Did that even happen, mate? I think that gave us that sort of pause that we needed to reflect. Because then when you do reflect and you look at the data and what we are creating, just with a bit of grit and a bit of wit and a bit of determination and a bit of fun and all that.

Andy (05:41)

five weeks ago.

PJ Ellis (05:58)

Yeah, man, I mean, it's really going in that right direction. And one of the things that came out, a bit of feedback made, I don't know whether you heard this, was, you know what, Peej, we don't really know much about the people behind the puppets. What do you actually do?

Andy (06:13)

Great question. Come on then, let's talk about you then. Come on, give us a bit of your, give a bit of your backstory. We'll try and keep it snappy, but what's turned you, what lived in experiences has turned you into the person who sits in front of me today, would you say?

PJ Ellis (06:22)

Yeah.

I mean, mean, yeah, I mean, you know me all too well to give me that sort of prompt to keep it short and sweet. But yeah, I think look, mate, I've been a really anxious kid growing up, really, really anxious, struggled with everything you can imagine. My brain is the biggest overthinker going, look at the size of the head that houses it. You know, I used to worry about giving birth. I've never had any reproductive organs, you know. ⁓

But you know, we talk about that bottleneck of information. Chris Mear was talking about it. I thought about that. And actually, I'm so glad that I wasn't a kid growing up in this world because, my word, it wouldn't have stopped that information overload. And we've spoken about that. Yeah. So, so my journey's been up, down, left, right and centre, but I've like, let's fast forward to I'm 46 years old. I still worry a little bit about, you know, what people thinking of me, imposter syndrome. What do I do? Who am I? Because I was a lawyer for 10 years and during that time,

It was easier, that's the right word, for me to define who I am, which is weird because I'm not a lawyer. I'm actually a geezer from Birmingham who loves the city and likes to have good people around me, as you know, I lost my mum in June 2024 and without bringing the tone down and having listened to the recent episode again from Hannah, I am desperate to use that perspective that I now have.

Andy (07:49)

Hmm.

PJ Ellis (07:50)

to do better things for me and for mine. And that's all about pouring into my own cup, doing the things that light me up and leaning into this portfolio career. So that's who I am. doing loads of stuff still around community, charity, mommy's boy. And one of my favourite things to do at the moment is this thing called wit and grit. I'm buzzing.

Andy (08:07)

Bring it

PJ Ellis (08:09)

Tell me a bit more about Andy Dawson, the taller, sexier, better looking puppet.

Andy (08:08)

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I've seen what you've been editing in these puppets recently. You're suddenly 6'6 and I'm 5'8. I've seen that. And you gave me little pair of white gloves. What's that all about?

PJ Ellis (08:20)

Bye.

Yeah,

Michael Jackson gloves, I don't know what that's all about. I've changed that though, mate, don't you worry.

Andy (08:30)

So me, right. Okay. So, yeah, growing up real late developer. So I left school after doing my A levels and I did them a year early for stupid reason. I won't bore you with. So literally 16 just turned 17 when I got my, and my voice hadn't broken. I was tiny. I was five foot three, you know, and I'm best part of six foot three now. that, you know, you can imagine that's quite difficult growing up in an all boys school next to an all girls school.

All the lads want to do is go meet the girls at lunchtime. All I wanted to do was walk on my own, get some chips before going in for lunch as well. that was, that got me comfortable in my own skin a little bit. Used to spending a bit of time myself. And then I just kind of fell into the insurance world, which is brilliant because I did four lots of four years at four different companies. And I got into big brands like Marks and Spencer's.

got into a high net worth insurer, where I was insuring all the band United footballers, all the lords and ladies, fine art collections and all these fantastic cars and just great experience. And each time I went on, I developed kind of new skills, new capabilities. So I'm, I'm, I'm a very proud generalist. I'm really good at being average. I'm really good at being general. And that's not diminishing what I've done, but that's a strength because I've got a feel and a bit of experience around most, most things. So that makes me quite adaptable.

And I always found that's been quite a strength. then fast forward to 2008, kind of set up Curem Solutions consultancy business in Birmingham. And that's been good fun kind of growing that. And then fast forward to 2026, which will be my 56th year on this planet. God, why am I a And I've added a couple more tools in the kit bags. I absolutely love what we do.

PJ Ellis (10:06)

Amen.

Andy (10:13)

It kind of like was a bit of a hobby and has now become a startup business, which is so exciting to go back to that scrappy phase of getting something going and beg stealing and borrowing for stuff. I love it. You know, that's really good. because Curiam's a good, strong business with great people working in it, but I love the scrappy nature of what we're doing, what we stand for. And then of course El Presidente. So I'm president of great Berman Chamber of Commerce, total accident, last minute transfer on deadline day.

PJ Ellis (10:25)

Thank

Andy (10:42)

But I'm really privileged, really privileged to kind of sit amongst that fantastic institution with its fantastic patrons and members trying to contribute, move the dial around this wonderful region that we're in. And, you know, Dad First is something I always talk about as well. So, you know, trying to set the right example and kind of look out for my lads, which is kind of gave us a bit of the idea for the pod as well, didn't it, in terms of what does the future like? But mate, in terms of...

with such a good yin and a yang and a kind of partnership, you know, it naturally falls, doesn't it? You know, in terms of what comes in, who picks it up. And I know we're now going, right, we've got to get a bit more precise about who does what. And anyone listening who's in a startup phase or small business will recognise that. But the key, you know, press go. What a great joint attitude and mindset we have. And this is a massive credit to you and I'll shut up now.

I keep getting asked by people, who does all your marketing and branding? What agency do you use? ⁓ And they don't believe me when I say it's us slash predominantly PJ and me chucking in a bit. And it's just fantastic, you know, what we've done. And I'd encourage young, old, middle-aged, whoever you are, if you've got an itch to scratch and you want to have a go, what do you do? You press go. That's what you do. ⁓

PJ Ellis (11:43)

Ha ha ha.

us.

100%. What's the worst that

can happen? I mean, we've lost a lot of time, fair enough, but in that time we've grown, know, so you get something out of it, even if we happen to fail fast and we're saying today, it's goodbye, which it isn't by the way. I would have learnt still so much and had so much fun, you know. ⁓

Andy (12:19)

Yeah,

what stands out for you then? of the things we've learned from the podcast, who would you shout out or what themes would you pick up from it might be useful for people to hear.

PJ Ellis (12:31)

Interesting, mate. I think maybe for me, so talking about that, I mean, by the way, how well did you just articulate yourself? That's because you went to an all boys school, mate.

But what stood out for me, Matt, I could talk about all the episodes. And I'm actually looking forward to an International Women's Day post that we've scheduled for Sunday, because you look at the ratio of people that we're talking to.

Andy (12:47)

Ugh.

PJ Ellis (12:51)

you look at the demographic and it's like who run the world? Girls. But yeah, for me, I'm thinking of an anxious PJ in the library that never really thought that he had a voice.

I never really thought I had anything decent to talk about or say. I just don't think people wanted to listen. And actually, when you start diving into the data, going back to the gig days, I'm starting to realise that people are listening to the things that we're saying. And that's quite important to me, not to feel heard, you know, but more importantly, to feel heard about a conversation that means so much to us, that resonates with the people that are listening to that.

Andy (13:15)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (13:30)

that then is also helping the people that we set this up for, our kids. know, genuinely, I'm talking to them about these little soundbites we pick up from the show. So yeah, mate, I mean, could pick one out from every episode. 28 episodes, by the way, we've only got half an hour, mate. I'll be here all day, what about you?

Andy (13:45)

Yeah, just touched on something you mentioned there. was something I heard a while ago, it really kind of resonates. Quite often people will, you know, when you interview them or you meet them or you have a meeting or they do a presentation, whatever it might be, and they go, was that okay? I often go, was that okay? And I think what people really mean by that is, did you hear me? Did I speak to you? Yeah, because we all want to be heard. It's just a natural...

human instinct and doesn't matter whether you're the president of so-and-so country, prime minister or football or whatever it is, everyone still wants to be heard. It's it's a human, common human trait to just have that little bit of doubt sometimes. So that's, so that's all good. I love, and we've talked about this a fair bit, our equation. And I know we've stolen it and it's, and it's been stolen many times, but M-A-O-P, cause that speaks to lots of episodes. So

So everybody out there, get your pen out, is a leadership tip for you. stands for motivation. Multiply that by someone's ability. There's a missing character, I'll come back to a further multiplication, equals someone's performance. Now the missing character is opportunity. So you can have the most motivated, capable person in your organisation, but if you give them the opportunity to develop or demonstrate what they can do, their performance will increase. And...

You know, I could think of many episodes. So, Ad Davis talked about people take him into rooms he didn't think he deserved to be in. He was created opportunity. Paul Faulkner talks about opportunity. You know, there's been so many episodes where opportunity has been at the centre of it. And as a leader, there's one thing you can do, which doesn't have to cost any money at all, which is to give one of your team

someone in your business or someone in a partnership network or customer, the opportunity to learn, thrive and develop. And if you can do that consistently, whether you've got two people, a hundred people, a thousand people, you will have a greater chance of succeeding. So that opportunity really, really sticks out to me and like you, you know, I'm blessed with the people we've, we've had on. We've got our second alumni event next Thursday where we've got the

PJ Ellis (15:57)

Mm.

Andy (16:00)

the podcast episodes 11 to 20. We're all gathering in a secret location. We will announce the location at 12 o'clock on Monday. It won't be a Netflix production, but I'm really looking forward to getting that group together again and them getting to meet each other and talk about what we're all doing. And we might have a little gift or two for them perhaps. So that gives me energy. And I'm sure you can probably hear that coming through my voice, those sorts of things, because I never thought of the ripe old age of 50.

PJ Ellis (16:08)

of that.

Andy (16:28)

I'd be doing this sort of stuff again. I generally didn't. I thought I'd be just keeping going until the daisies are waited for me to push them up. But this is cool. This is wicked.

PJ Ellis (16:30)

Mm.

Love that. It's really interesting because once we're now we're starting to sort of commercialise, professionalise. Sounds boring, doesn't it? Let's keep it as a start up. love that. Now we're a start up in the trenches. Yeah. We have to look at like, you know, if we're in grit actually works, what changes? You know what, what, what, because, you know, we're having a nice conversation, aren't we? But you talk about that little podcast alumni that we've set up. Let's call those the compounding assets.

You know, these things that are naturally coming off the back of these conversations that compound like interest does, that completely grows. You with that with that podcast alumni, look at those people in that room, cross-sector conversation, intergenerational conversations, you know, the demographics different, you know, that it's not just business. You know, these are community leaders, know, charity startups, you know, people that have nearly finished their journey, not life wise, but, you know, business wise.

Andy (17:11)

Yeah.

I said.

PJ Ellis (17:34)

And for me, I'm really excited about stuff like that. So let me ask that question then. If Witten Grid to you works, what does change? We talk about opportunity. What do you see coming out the back of it?

Andy (17:36)

Mm-hmm.

OK, well, let's start something that does need to change, and I think we both agree on it. And again, people out there in the start phase is structure. Focus and kind of discipline, isn't it? And we both could do with a bit more sprinkled on top of the pie, couldn't we? So and I know we're looking at we're going to be looking at getting a bit of support to help us operationalise. So I think that's one thing we need to operationalise ourselves.

PJ Ellis (18:03)

Ha ha ha.

What are you trying to say, man?

Andy (18:17)

Number two, don't think we're not looking at a business that's loads of people. You know, I think we're going to have to explore technology a bit. We've got a friend of the pod who is busy looking at some agentic robots for us and around again, bit of operations, bit of sales and marketing. So I mean that in itself is a fantastic learning opportunity for both of us. So I think we'll grow. We'll need more time.

PJ Ellis (18:21)

Mm.

Friend of the show.

Andy (18:41)

And we'll get some other people involved to help, help kind of deal with some of the, you know, weaknesses. Let's be honest with you, we've got, so that's, that's one side of it. That's the bit of boring stuff. What then changes in terms of the kind of positive stuff is, ⁓ I think our ambition, you know, the ambition will change the ambition from being pleased with, you know, an event, being pleased with a podcast episode to knowing actually, I don't, we can't.

PJ Ellis (18:50)

Mm.

Mmm.

Andy (19:09)

We can't afford to let ourselves down here. And I mean that in the nicest possible sense, because we've got some things. So, you know, how do we leverage and work with our podcast alumni? We want to set up a board of advisors, don't we, for the autumn event that we're hopefully going to be talking about with ⁓ a host next week, a 2D event, which is going to put kids and young people very much at the heart of that agenda. And then the event we've got in January, and then there's other kind of things for the pod. How do we get it, you know?

PJ Ellis (19:12)

you

Andy (19:36)

more focused and more thematic so that people dialing in know and have a feel for what's going to be discussed. And I guess the last thing is not necessarily about what's going to change, but I think it might be reflections we have maybe in 12 months time where we go, we kind of accidentally really got on, gave lots of opportunity to young people in particular. You know, if you look at the average age of our podcast guests.

PJ Ellis (19:38)

Mm.

Andy (20:05)

We should plot that out in a little graph, mate. We should do. It'd be really interesting to see. Because I was at an event last night with some colleagues in the chamber. And the chamber's got a fantastic little arm called Future Faces, which is all about creating opportunity for younger people in businesses. And I just kind of in my head felt, oh, well, OK, we've had Deca Hawley on past winner of the awards. We've had Will Crawford on committee member. We've had Joel Blake on committee member. And then, oh, Rhiannon.

PJ Ellis (20:05)

Yeah. Yeah, that's a great show.

Andy (20:32)

and Abbie helped us with the event, both 19. We've, you know, we talked about doing this because of our kids and I think we're creating opportunity for all sorts of people here. And I think that's one thing that I hope doesn't change. But when we look back, we might go, ⁓ did we stumble on that or was that a conscious thing? Who knows?

PJ Ellis (20:51)

Yeah, mean, think what I'm loving about all these, the ambition, is like through the roof at the moment. And I'm worried, not worried, that's the wrong word.

There is so much we could do here with this. I mean, you mentioned about, I'm going to call it like a talent pipeline. You know, we're talking about opportunities. I know we'll be able to connect businesses with those people that would be brilliant within those organisations. And it's not just going to come through the podcast. I know that we can break through to those people through communities and charities and all that. And I can't wait to talk to businesses about that, how we do that together.

because that's what we started it for. want Blake, Ben, all the others to get these opportunities. The opportunities that Will Crawford's moved into, that Becca Hall is taking advantage of, that Joel Blake's exploring, that Sam and Latoya are owning over at Higgs. All those things have been sort of, I don't know, preceded by a journey. And if we can help accelerate that journey, that's certainly something I would love to do.

Andy (21:50)

Well, and remember young Doug Wright, right? He started out, what was it, cleaning toilets in the McDonald's at 93p an hour. And his story is just fantastic. And he certainly is a champion for kind of young kids and, you know, for the Kids Village charity as well, doing some amazing stuff there. So it's definitely a, you know, a theme, isn't it, for us?

PJ Ellis (21:55)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Do

you remember what he said, mate, when he was cleaning toilets at 93 pence an hour, which I'll take by the way, at the moment. Just one person picked him up, one person grabbed him and said, come on, this is how you do it. Not clean the toilets. You know, there are other things you could do and backed him. And, you know, there is that theme, isn't it? The theme is natural. What I love about this, that actually when we were sitting in that coffee shop under pressure.

Andy (22:16)

Go on, remind me.

PJ Ellis (22:34)

and a shout out to Black Root Beestra. I think it was a conversation across the two. We're looking for sponsors. Is that those, that sort of understanding or hope that would have these conversations have naturally come from these people that have lived these experiences and they give me hope. I'm not entirely sure now, mate. I'm as worried about our kids. What about you?

Andy (22:38)

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, by seeing what's going on and hearing what their attitudes are and the drive and the get go. No, I'm not. I think, yeah, we should probably, we probably raise this topic, isn't it? So no, I'm not. think kids are going to be fine as long as we keep supporting. But then you look at, you know, we talked about my week starting in such a nice way. Well, for the world, the week didn't start in a great way, did it? You know, there's a, there's an awful lot happened in the world and going on right now. And it's

PJ Ellis (23:00)

Mm.

Andy (23:26)

know, it's not easy and that will impact economies, that will impact businesses, that's, you know, and it's a difficult set of circumstances and we talk a lot about resilience, don't we? But I don't know, how are you seeing the world right now?

PJ Ellis (23:40)

I turn the news off, mate. the main challenge is we can't turn the news on.

because it's 24 hours and it's creating a picture of this world that they're saying, this is with the greatest respect, it might sound very clumsy, but the world's always been on fire in some shape or form. But because we have so much access to the news, it is first thing we think about, thing we're talking about at the breakfast table. Minnie is now petrified, she's 10 years old, about this blue and red thing that's going on in schools.

You know, there's a red school that's picked a blue school and they just beat the living life out of each other. It's been dramatised a little bit within like WhatsApp groups and stuff like that. But because she knows it, access is information's power, but also it just scaring the life out of us. So

Yeah, think the world's a challenging place at the moment. It really is. What about you?

Andy (24:33)

Yeah, no, similar. There's a couple of things to scribble it down so we don't forget them. I think one thing I've learned pretty recently because my routine used to be get up really early, make coffee, sit in front of telly, put on Bloomberg because I'm really boring and I like looking at that stuff and maybe check the news out and I think it's important to have a feel for it. But then I kind of heard someone say something that was don't immediately

outsource the future of your day. And what they meant by that is don't wake up, grab your phone, look at the news and all of sudden you're lost. So I'd now try to get up. The phone is with outside arms reached, the alarm goes off, pick it up, walk, don't look at it, go downstairs, drink water first, then coffee. Then I've got 10 minutes to, some people who are meditation, I'll just sit and reflect. What if I got, how was your stay? What's coming on today? And then I might.

check out what's going on on Bloomberg or stuff. I start, starting a day on my terms gives me that kind of bit of control. And I think that the thing I've loved about seeing you grow through this podcast and what I mean by that is I'm so impressed the amount of stuff you take back to your kids and your life. you know, do remember how excited we both were when we talked to Katie Martin, know, the former hostage negotiator and she gave the little Ted model, you know.

PJ Ellis (25:53)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Andy (25:57)

So, you know, for your kids, for the listeners is, know, Ted is, know, start your conversations with kids, not how was your day? Cause like my little girl crap, what was the best thing about your day coming home, right? What things like tell me about, or explain to me something that, or describe what you experienced today or smell you had. So really good conversations to just open up the commerce channels cause you know, otherwise, and if you

PJ Ellis (26:06)

Yeah, I'm go and get this. ⁓

Andy (26:25)

If you stay at your hand, you're staying at your phone, you're staring at your device. It's a very easy thing to do to outsource yourself to a device. But one thing that does worry me a little bit about kids, and my big fella's said this to me the other day. I can't remember where we were and he said, dad, do you know what? And this was when we were away last week. He said, I haven't asked chat to EPT anything today. And I kind of thought, oh, that's brilliant. Cause he's having a great time with me. And I thought, oh,

because that means he has a 360 odd days a year. He's asking chat GPT things. And I know in universities, some lecturers I've talked to worry that even the students, they're asking, what should I have tea? What should I wear today? Where should I go? And that again is crossing a bit of a line for me. So a bit of a ramble, mate. But again, that's just a reflection. And then you take that into the world and the chaos. You're right. Even the last three months, if you think about, right, autumn statement,

PJ Ellis (26:52)

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Andy (27:21)

financial insecurity, AI hype is there a bubble, political turmoil in our country, rise of extremism, global conflict. So here's the thing, have the mindset of there is no longer business as usual anymore, because business as usual, as you say is, the world has always been on fire. So just

PJ Ellis (27:37)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Andy (27:43)

roll with the punches and learn how to deal with it and seek opportunity and tackle challenge on a daily basis. Have that expectation.

PJ Ellis (27:50)

Yeah, 100 % man. That outsourcing your mood is so important. And I think what does scare me is that, that, you know, your boys, I haven't asked you actually, Pete, say anything today. I did, well, we did, Whitting Grit were represented at Aston University's Power Skills sort of week in a talk your talk event. And basically we judged, I think it was like 15 students.

Andy (28:08)

Okay, yeah.

PJ Ellis (28:16)

Some are post grads, some are undergrads, third years, masters, whatever it might be. And now we're just talking on a subject that mattered most of them, sustainability, AI, leadership, And a and a theme that's come out in a few of our conversations, Hannah, Daniel, identity. And what they're saying is these kids, right, so our children are...

Andy (28:34)

Hmm

PJ Ellis (28:38)

not even sitting, you say meditate, sit with your coffee, think, being curious, whatever. They're not thinking about who they are. You know, they're not asking themselves.

What are my values? read a book recently, The Purpose Pursuit, and one of the tasks is, and it's a challenge for myself, like, you know, write 20 year values down, then you break them down, you'll see that some group, and then all of a sudden you'll spit out three or four values. And if you know them, you want to live by them.

But if I ask my kids that now, they'll probably ask chat cheap eater. So they're losing their identity. So they're moving into this world where it's bloody on fire as it is. Add to it all the other stuff that we're spoken about and they don't know who they are. They don't know who they are.

Andy (29:15)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (29:18)

I mean that

is scary. mean, I don't know. You said at the start, you found space to be comfortable in your own skin. It's taken me to lose my mum to be more comfortable in my skin. Do you genuinely believe that you were comfortable in your skin as a kid?

Andy (29:32)

Yeah, I was comfortable in my own company. and there was a danger, preferred it. And there is that, I have a bias towards being an introvert and let's deal with that. Introvert doesn't mean you're quiet and it means just that when you have to dial up the energy, now you do loads of this, mate, you're brilliant at it. Host stuff, it bloody drains you, right? So you do need that recovery time. Extroverts do that every day of the week. In fact, they're the ones who say, let's,

PJ Ellis (29:34)

Yeah.

Yeah, it's awesome.

Andy (29:58)

Let's do this meeting in the office. Why? Because they just want to be around people and that's totally cool, you know? So I think, ⁓ yeah, I kind of, that's, I've done that. And of course I don't get me wrong, I self doubts, you know, have I done the right thing? Am I doing the right thing? Will it work? What do people think? does people think I'm a dick or do people think... You know, all those, we all have them. We all have them. It's just learning to control and the worst time...

PJ Ellis (30:00)

Hmm.

Yeah. ⁓

Andy (30:24)

when you have your doubts is obviously that two to three o'clock in the morning, wake up, go, everything's a nightmare. And the simple reason for that is we as humans are not designed, we're not nocturnal. So therefore brains aren't meant to be alive and working things out two to three o'clock in the morning. It's two to three o'clock in the afternoon. So that's why the fear gets.

gets kind of hold of us in, because it does. And even writing it down, oh, I've written it down, oh, someone else has popped in my head, give us a break, I can't ever get back to sleep again in my life and tomorrow's going to be a disaster. It's so easy, isn't it? So giving ourselves a break, mate, and you, you know, give yourself a break, you know, we all need to do, we all need to do that because you're a really good man, human, friend, partner, and dad. That's the truth. But sometimes it's hard to...

PJ Ellis (30:55)

Yeah.

Andy (31:13)

feel that within ourselves, isn't it?

PJ Ellis (31:16)

Are you talking to a mirror? Are you saying that about me? It's very nice. I mean, the emergency episode has turned into I mean, I'm loving this. It's all recorded. So I'll show my wife this as well. Andy Dawson says it. So it must be true. Now, I appreciate that. Thank you. I think, you know,

Andy (31:18)

That's it. ⁓

PJ Ellis (31:32)

These takeaways are so important and resonate massively with me and have a ripple effect. I did a talk yesterday at Sutton United Football Club and I mentioned all the things that was, yeah, mate, I spoke about the stuff that you've told me before about, you know, imposter syndrome. We've all got it. But actually, you can't be an imposter if you're yourself and you're the best in the world at being yourself and all that sort of stuff. And you see people writing it down and there's that ripple effect.

Andy (31:40)

Okay

PJ Ellis (31:57)

But when you are having these important conversations and breakthroughs and interventions How do you measure it?

Andy (32:03)

I think, always starts with one of my favourite words and people, it's overused, but it's not curious. How can we get people to be curious? How can we get partners to be curious? How can we get sponsors to be curious? And then you have your evidence, you know, what gives us the right to say, be a brand partner, give us X and we'll deliver Y for you? Well, you know, my favourite quote.

Real self-confidence doesn't come from shouting affirmations into a mirror. Real self-confidence comes from giving the irrefutable proof that you are who you say you are. So be curious about what we're doing, how you can get involved, how you can benefit. We've got the evidence that our live test is demonstrating about how we can maybe support and help you. We're curious about that. If you're curious as well, then that's how you create the win-win, the mutual opportunity in this day and age, I think.

PJ Ellis (32:54)

Go, mate, we leave that on that hard end. mean, it's almost like a sales sort of pitch there. I'll just clip that off, send it around. No, mate, you're right. And I think that's, you know, I'm excited to see people have backed us and it's not a vanity thing. I'm done with that vanity metric, you know, having the big office and the car. Don't get me wrong, car, I don't mind an ice car, but I mean, I used to think success was big offices, big head count and all that. And it's not the vanity metric I'm seeking now. It's just that.

Andy (33:19)

No, no.

PJ Ellis (33:21)

genuinely delivering those opportunities to those people. Those opportunities that I would have loved to have had as a kid.

Andy (33:26)

Yeah, I mean, success for us should be every time we meet each other, how are you feeling at 10, 11, 10. That's what we want. And it's never like that. I go from a three to a nine to a 10 to a two to a five, right? So just narrowing that range of how we're feeling. That's what's in here, you know? And I know you really well now. And I can tell when you're a little bit off your game, when you're really fired up and on your game. And I'm sure you can do the same with me.

PJ Ellis (33:32)

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Andy (33:55)

So I think, you know, our measure of success, let's be selfish, is about how's our average is moving? How's our range of how we're feeling? Because if we're pumped, mate, if we're playing from a 10, then sorry, no one's going to stop us. Tough, you know? Come along for the ride if you want.

PJ Ellis (34:10)

Yeah, just did Yeah,

man. Yeah, come along with yeah, I mean, this is a thing that I'm saying to most people look we're building something Come along if you want if you don't we're doing anyway, you know We might accelerate it with your support and we and we don't we do hope to get the support I mean, we're off to rough to see someone for some support. I mean I say Yeah, of course man, I'll be like, again, there we go. There's that there's something I'm learning try and get teamship What does what does being early mean?

Andy (34:24)

Yeah, we are. Yeah, we better close this down a bit otherwise you'll be late again.

PJ Ellis (34:37)

All right, mate, well, listen, that was our emergency episode. Hopefully you took something from that. I usually leave with some takeaways. I didn't write them down today other than I didn't realize that Andy worked for Marks and Spencer's. That is my favorite brand at the moment because they do 28 inch inside leg. There we go. And on that note, let's go and smash into our Fridays, mate.

Andy (34:48)

Yeah. ⁓

Cheers mate.

PJ Ellis (34:57)

Thanks mate.