This is Women Road warriors with Shelly.

Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

From the corporate office to the cab of a truck, they're here to inspire and empower women in all professions.

So gear down, sit back and enjoy.

Welcome.

We're an award winning show dinner dedicated to empowering women in every profession through inspiring stories and expert insights.

No topics off limits on our show.

We power women on the road to success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need.

I'm Shelley.

And I'm Kathy.

We're also very busy today.

Sometimes we're busy just being busy.

It's controlled chaos.

Wouldn't it be nice to do more by doing less and achieve serenity?

Wouldn't it be great to be truly happy, peaceful and comfortable in our own skin?

Many of us aren't.

Today, we're full of internal conflict.

Henry Shucman teaches thousands of students worldwide how to take a journey of healing.

Henry is a widely published poet and author and Zen and meditation teacher.

He's a Zen master of the Sanbo Zen lineage.

He's spiritual director emeritus of Mountain Cloud Zen center in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

He's also the co founder of the Way, a first of its kind meditation app that helps people find the deeper possibilities of meditation through a single pathway of training.

Henry's taught meditation at Harvard Business School, Google Colorado College, United World College and many other places.

Henry published his first work at the age of 19.

His new book, Original Love, talks about coming home amid strife and stress and finding intrinsic healing energy, peace and joy that we already have within us.

Henry's background in Zen meditation and transcendental meditation is highly effective.

They've been key elements in his own healing.

We have Henry with us today to talk about his terrific insights.

Welcome, Henry.

Thank you for being on the show.

Well, wow.

Thank you so much for having me.

It's great to be with you guys.

I love what you do.

It's an amazing show and I'm honored to be able to be a guest here.

Thank you.

We're excited.

Yes, we are.

And thank you for that wonderful compliment.

We want to empower people who come to listen and there's so much out there to help people and certainly your knowledge is something that I think the world desperately needs.

Would you say serenity is something people lack today?

Oh, man.

I mean, just speaking personally, you know, my own journey in life.

Yeah, it was, it's, you know, it's been a long road to getting much more serenity.

I don't, I'm still a work in progress, of course, but I Definitely find I can tap into it much more.

And I noticed that, you know, there's so many ways in which we can actually, like, like, be far more, you know, achieve more and be much more kind of, you know, helpful and positive and energetic in life and productive if we have more serenity.

So I don't see serenity as being, like, about checking out, you know, it's more like tapping back into a place that is always with us if we only know how to find it.

Isn't that the truth?

Oh, I totally agree.

And it does seem there's so much anger out there, and I think it's become more profound since the pandemic.

People just seem to be wanting to attack each other everywhere that's not serene.

And we do have, I think, controlled chaos in our lives.

Yeah, I totally agree.

I mean, on that score about the anger and aggression and divisiveness and violence even, you know, it seems pretty clear now from neuroscience that we've got evolutionary wiring that we already have within us that can basically take us in two directions.

You know, can take us in a direction of love and caring and, you know, really enjoying connecting and building bridges and basically spreading the love, you know.

But this.

But actually the same wiring can also take us in the direction of divide division and divisiveness and aggression.

It can make us turn against people.

And the real tragedy is we've got both possibilities.

And so if we don't get wise about it, we can so easily go down the dark road.

Oh, yeah.

And I think a lot of people do choose that.

They don't know what to do with things.

And in anger, it's so disruptive and indestructive.

When people are constantly angry or they're in a state of stress, it's hard on the body, it's hard on the mind, and the quality of life goes out the window.

But it looks like you teach people how to grasp the inner strengths that give them serenity and peace and joy, which I think everyone really, really wants, even if they don't know they need it.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and my belief, from all the years and decades of training I've done in those kind of healing arts, so to speak, you know, which meditation is a key piece of, is that we already have it within us.

What we really want.

The peace, the energy, the clarity, the connection, you know, the sense of purpose, that's really positive.

We have all that within us.

So it's partly about developing some skills, but it's also about learning how to tap into something that we actually all share.

And I call my book Original Love because it's original, because it's already here.

It's what we're made of in a certain sense.

And it's love because it's got the peace and it's got the caring and it's got the, you know, the.

The wanting to connect and wanting to offer something to others and to be of service.

And I think.

I think those capacities and those characteristics are actually like our common human birthright, but we don't.

We're not so good at.

At knowing how to find them, how to unearth them, you know, and so having some tools that can help us tap into that side of our nature is just, I think, a really helpful thing.

And unfortunately, in human history, you know, generally speaking, as a species, not.

Not.

We haven't always been very good about recognizing that capacity.

No.

You know, and.

And so our history's been pretty violent.

It really has.

And then the sad thing is that, you know, if you grow up around violence, whether it's, you know, right in your home or whether it's in the.

In the culture and society you're part of or that your.

Your.

Your culture and society is receiving, it's very traumatizing.

You know, everybody gets traumatized, and then.

And then you grow up not knowing that your parents were traumatized.

And you.

You adopt some of that trauma.

You.

You imbibe it as a baby, as a young child, and you create adaptive mechanisms to cope with it.

And you go through life kind of at war with the world and at war with others and feeling always under threat.

And actually, you know, it's time we change that, I think.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

You know, I've always thought that human beings, we've made some tremendous strides, and we're an intelligent group, but it seems like we lack the basic understanding of some of these things that make so much sense, that will make the world so much better.

We're slow learners.

But here's the thing.

Some people, no matter what you try and tell them that, you know, that meditation will help them and will benefit them, they don't want nothing to do with it.

Like, you have to be ready for it mentally, spiritually, emotionally, you have to be wanting to.

Because I know I've had this discussion with a few of the guys at work.

So what, I work with 170, you know, these big tough guys, heavy equipment operators.

And for a while, my company, ExxonMobil, they were bringing in mindfulness, right.

So we had to close our eyes every morning before work and just kind of reset our brain and kind of like, okay, what.

What are we going to focus on?

And, I mean, the idea is fabulous, but it wasn't taken very well with within the.

Within the.

Within all crews.

I mean, people are making jokes and, you know, they're not.

Because you have to be wanting to.

There's certain people that, yeah, that's great.

Let me focus.

Let me reset.

But other people for the big majority were like, oh, this is so stupid.

You know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally get it.

Hey, by the way, how long were they trying to make you guys do that for?

Oh, just a few minutes.

Like, three minutes.

Three minutes?

Yeah.

See, what.

What I find is.

Is much more helpful for people who are really just starting out is actually movement rather than sitting still and trying to focus on something.

It's actually for a lot of people, they're much better off moving.

So you might do an exercise where everybody's standing and you do some.

What's called heel bouncing, where you're kind of just gently bouncing up and down for a while.

And that actually starts to calm a person down.

It starts to bring you into your body experience.

Not so much in the mind.

And then it's easier to get into some meditation.

But we'd also do things like.

I mean, we could just try it right now.

Like, if you're just.

Wherever you're sitting, just breathe in and raise your hands up to head height.

And then breathe out.

Yeah, great.

And then when you breathe out, lower your hands back down to your lap.

And now let's do it three times.

Breathing in, raising hands.

Breathing out, lowering hands.

Breathing in, raising the hands to head height and breathing out, lowering them down into that.

And just one more.

Breathing in, raising the hands.

And slowly out.

Let the hands float down.

Floating down and out.

Now, I don't know.

Did you feel a little difference?

Yeah, it felt like my blood flow is a little bit better to some degree.

And.

Yeah, kind of a.

More of a.

An electric feeling.

I don't know that.

That's probably not the proper description, but that's nice.

Anything that we sense in the body, you know, and somehow, like as if the atmosphere just changes a little bit.

Yes.

You know, that's.

That's.

That's it.

That's it.

That's just like getting a little taste that.

Wow.

That there is another way.

There's a way of being perfectly energized and perfectly clear, you know, but there's a kind of bit more space, a bit more calm, a bit more balance, centeredness, maybe Somehow things feel just a little bit easier, you know, just a tiny bit less.

So when people are really.

Are irate and they're in that moment, what would be the best way to.

To tell.

Because when you tell someone to calm down, they're not going to calm down, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Do you remember the movie Bad Boys when he was rubbing his earlobes and going.

Does that actually work?

Is that.

Was that just a joke?

Wow, I wish I'd seen that movie.

I don't remember that.

I don't think I know that movie.

It's.

Yeah, every time he.

Because he was a captain of police force in Miami and he.

He was so stressed out that he.

It was.

Someone had told.

His therapist had told him to rub his earlobes and just go.

And so he had.

Everything in his office was Zen and he was trying to calm down and lowered his blood pressure.

So it.

When he would get stressed, that's what he would do.

So it was kind of like a common joke.

No, apparently not.

Okay, never mind.

I'm gonna go see that movie.

But hey, did.

In the movie, did it work or not really?

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, because I'll tell you what, actually, honestly, there is some science there.

The earlobes and also those little flaps just inside the ear, I forget what they're called just above the earlobes.

Anyway, all of that area is directly connected to something called the vagus nerve.

And the vagus nerve is a large network of nerves.

Actually, the word vagus is from the Latin wondering.

It means, it wonders because the vagus nerve is a great big nerve that goes from the side.

From the.

From the ear area down the side of the neck, down into the front of the chest, and then down and it goes right through the whole belly.

And it's actually a really important nerve for how we feel.

Wow, I didn't know that.

That's interesting.

It's really true.

If you stimulate the vagus nerve lightly, it will tend to.

To calm down the nervous system.

So I don't know.

Should I go into a little bit more science?

Okay, so if you pull on your.

Your earlobe, does that help?

Well, it actually does stimulate the vagus nerve.

Okay.

Oh, that makes sense then.

So if you.

If you pull on them and kind of move them around, rotate them and stuff, you know, and, you know, you might combine it with just a bit of stillness and it can bring on more calm because we got.

The nervous system has got this sympathetic side and the parasympathetic side.

The sympathetic side of the Nervous system activates it, and in extreme, it switches on the stress response.

You know, that's fight or flight or freeze is what you say.

Yeah.

And the parasympathetic nervous system turns on resting.

Rest and digest, the son has called it.

It's like getting into a restful state, an easy, calm state.

So if you stimulate the vagus nerve in that kind of way, you are dialing down that sympathetic side, which is the stress response side, and you're actually stimulating the parasympathetic side, which is the rest and digest mode.

So anything that is impacting the vagus nerve like that can have that beneficial effect of just everything calms down a bit.

So really, it's not a bad intervention.

And I don't know about the.

Ooh, Sa.

Was he like, you know, honestly, any.

There's, you know, the old.

The old.

The old saw, you know, count to three or take three deep breaths.

It's true.

If you take three deep breaths in your belly, you know, your belly's expanding and then contracting as you breathe out.

That also is affecting the vagus nerve.

And if you just do three, you know, and especially if the exhale's a little bit slower than the inhales, it calms us down.

And that might be enough to be a kind of interruption between getting really irritated by something.

And you just put in this little intervention of three deep breaths before you react, it might just stop you blazing forth and making the situation much worse.

You know, kind of like we're driving road rage, right?

Oh, yes.

Yes.

Right.

Absolutely.

Breathe, Kathy.

I think that a lot of people on the freeway today could use some of those techniques because you see so much of just anger, crazy, and people just.

It just escalates.

It's terrible.

Now half the time, you know, the people they're angry with don't even know what they've done.

Oh, exactly.

It's like, wow, where did this come from?

Why are you so angry?

And they may not even be angry at who they're going off on.

They may be angry at somebody completely different.

But this is a.

Just a convenient person to victimize, essentially.

Yeah, that's right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And it's terrible.

And I see way too much of it, especially with social media and everything else, where people can be.

Basically, no one knows who you are.

So you could just go off, you know, and you wouldn't dare do that in.

In person, because you might not have a nose.

Somebody's gonna.

Yeah, and exactly.

And also, if somebody was, you know, standing in the same room as you or sitting beside you, you would just put it differently.

You know, you'd be gentler and kinder and more thoughtful about how you might be trying to express your view and you might be more open to hearing theirs.

But yeah, you know, they're just, they're just a number on an Instagram or something.

You could you just vent and.

Yeah, it's really, it's really sad.

I think that it, it can create a lot of bad feeling and.

Oh, yes.

You know, and we actually, we, we know better.

I think in a way we know better really, but we do.

But people don't.

I don't know.

It seems like people have lost their sense of humanity and, and in the proper conduct.

Oh, it's just, and I'm seeing this actually since social media has really taken off in the past 15 years or so and really, it's not gotten better.

I know we need people like you, Henry, to bring us back to our equilibrium.

Stay tuned for more of Women Road warriors coming up.

Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.

I have one question for you.

Do you want to stop worrying about the irs?

If the answer is yes, then look no further.

I've been around for years.

I've helped countless people across the country, and my success rate speaks for itself.

So now you know where to find good, honest help with your tax problems.

What are you waiting for?

If you owe more than $10,000 to the IRS or haven't filed in years, call me now at 888-5574 or go to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back.

Industry Movement Trucking Moves America Forward is telling the story of the industry.

Our safety champions, the women of trucking, independent contractors, the next generation of truckers, and more.

Help us promote the best of our industry.

Share your story and what you love about trucking.

Share images of a moment you're proud of and join us on social media.

Learn more@truckingmovesamerica.com.

Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

If you're enjoying this informative episode of Women Road Warriors, I wanted to mention Kathy and I explore all kinds of topics that will power you on the road to success.

We feature a lot of expert interviews, plus we feature celebrities and women who've been trailblazers.

Please check out our podcast@womenroadwarriors.com and click on our episodes page.

We're also available wherever you listen to podcasts on all the major podcast channels like Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon, Music, Audible, you name it.

Check us out and bookmark our podcast.

Also, don't forget to follow us on social media, on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn, YouTube and other sites, and tell others about us.

We want to help as many women as possible.

Achieving serenity is possible.

When we do, we can do more and achieve more productively.

Serenity is not checking out, but tapping back into a place that's always with us if we only know how to find it.

Anger, aggression, and divisiveness seem to rule today, but they shouldn't.

Humans are designed to build bridges and spread love.

The real tragedy is we often don't go that direction and go down the dark roads where we're always at war with each other.

Henry Shucman shows people how to take the high road with meditation and other techniques.

He teaches thousands of students worldwide how to take a journey of healing.

Henry is a widely published poet and author and Zen and meditation teacher.

Henry, he's a Zen master of the Sanbo Zen lineage.

His new book, Original Love, talks about coming home amid strife and stress and finding intrinsic healing energy, peace, and joy that we already have within us.

Henry's background in Zen meditation and transcendental meditation are highly effective.

They've been key elements in his own healing.

Henry, what I wanted to know, you do so many different things and you have thousands of students.

What do you do?

What do you teach?

Exactly, right.

Okay.

So, you know, the heart of what I teach is trying to help people develop the habit of meditation.

And what I mean by that is essentially being quiet and still for a little bit every day, regardless.

So it might be three minutes a day, and it might increase as you do more when you're alone and you sit down and.

And you just, you.

You don't move.

You're just quiet and still.

And learning to do that is not always easy, as we were discussing earlier.

So there's techniques that make it easier where, you know, hey, while you're sitting still, try to do this.

Try to keep your attention on your breath, for example, or try to just pay attention to what you're hearing, whatever you can hear around you.

We talk about the soundscape like there's a whole, you know, space of sound around us.

It's always here, you know, and what are we hearing?

Just to note, oh, yeah, there's different sounds.

There's something faint, traffic in the distance.

Maybe there's a bird call, maybe there's wind in a tree.

Maybe there's air conditioning humming in the background or a heater humming Maybe there's somebody cooking in the kitchen in the next room.

I can hear.

We just listen.

And it's funny that, you know, we're so used to giving our attention to outward tasks, but when we stop doing any task and we're just being still and quiet, sometimes we just don't know what to do with our attention.

It's like we feel like, you know, well, what about?

To be thinking about something.

And often we do just think about things.

We often go into planning and we go into.

They call it rehashing.

Going over old past events and sometimes worrying about them, regretting them, or occasionally feeling good about them.

Or we go into just imagining stuff.

But for us to just stay still and quiet and be present is not always easy.

But if we can do it.

The way I see it is if we can do it, if we can just be and listen.

For example, we're actually starting to notice our very life.

You know, we.

So often we're awake, we wake up in the morning, and then, boom, we're off the whole day.

And then we're just doing, doing, doing, doing, doing, activity after activity, and, okay, that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with that.

But it's like, yeah, but also, let's not forget we exist.

We actually have a body.

We have a mind, we have a heart.

And it's a shame if we don't notice it, you know, because we're so busy doing.

It's not that we're saying, don't do anything.

Not at all.

We're just saying, for a little bit of time, don't do anything.

Just for a little bit each day, don't do anything, and just appreciate the fact that you exist.

And then we start to notice that, wow, you know, hey, it's actually really nice to be just hearing sounds.

It's really nice to be just experiencing colors and shapes in the world around us, you know, and seeing little bits of movement, leaves on a tree moving.

We start to notice the world, and we start to realize, wow, there's a lot in the world that's really beautiful.

And somehow, what would my life be like if I had a little bit of time each day when I could taste that?

So that's the heart of what it's about, really.

And that's what you teach your students.

It makes total sense.

It puts people in the moment, which I think a lot of people are living in the past or in the future.

They're not really in the moment, and they're losing out on so much life.

You know, that's my view.

Totally.

Exactly.

You know, they, they.

And actually, by the way, another technique we often use is like, just feeling your body.

Like feeling your.

Your butt on the seat, feeling your feet on the floor, feeling.

What is the difference between where you're wearing clothing and where your skin is not.

Is exposed, like your hands and maybe your forearms and maybe your legs.

If it's a warm day, you might be wearing shorts, you know, so just noticing the body.

They say the mind is a time traveler.

The mind goes to the past and the future a lot, but the body only lives in the present.

So coming sort of back into the body.

That's why, like I was talking about that, you know, those body movements earlier, they can help us be in the body.

And that's also.

If we're in the body, like, meaning aware of our body's experience right now, like right now we can just feel the seat under you.

You know, there's probably some warmth.

There might be a little sense of pressure, you know, and then we can feel the feet.

Maybe they've got a bit of warmth in them, some light tingle maybe, you know, the moment we feel we're feeling the body, we're back in the present moment.

It's kind of cool because that's where our actual life is happening.

I can see where this would be a really good way to deal with a very stressful situation.

Say you're somebody says something really atrocious and you want to react.

Or there's a situation of conflict.

If you can take yourself, take a step back for a moment and get back on your square, if you will.

I would think that this helps you think better.

It totally does.

You know, when our nervous system fires up into the stress response, you know, and the stress response either goes to fight or to flight, basically, it's either like aggression, or it's like, I'm getting out of here as quick as I can, you know, so when it does that, we don't really have a lot of awareness of what we're doing.

It's just gone to immediate reactivity.

If we can just get a little bit of a space where there's just a little bit of a gap.

And yeah, let's say somebody said something that we find really provoking or confrontational or aggressive or something that's coming at us, we'll get a stress response very quickly and easily.

In that situation, the vast majority of us, and in that state, we're just.

We may just lash out or we may just withdraw, you know, but either is really a Reaction that we don't have much control over.

On the other hand, if we can just give ourselves a second or two, Let me feel my feet.

Let me just hear sounds in the world.

Let me just feel one breath coming in and going out and really track it.

That gives us a little bit of space.

You know, there's a great philosopher, Viktor Frankl, he was this Holocaust survivor philosopher, and he said between stimulus and response, there is a gap, and in that gap lies all our freedom.

So I like that.

I like that, too.

Yeah.

So something happens to us that's a stimulus, and usually we just.

We react immediately.

But actually there's a gap.

There is actually a gap in there, but we may not think so because we're so habituated to just riding right through it.

But there is actually a gap, and right there, man, there's a lot of freedom that can come up.

Those are where our choices are.

Yeah, I was just gonna say that.

That's where our choice.

Yeah, freedom to choose.

How am I going to respond here?

Yeah.

Yes, exactly.

And if we've just gone straight into reactivity mode, we don't even know that there could be a choice.

Very true.

And then we can regret how we react.

That's all too common.

And then that's when you don't have the freedom, because all of a sudden then you have the consequences of how you reacted.

Exactly, exactly.

And then that regret becomes another painful emotion that we're subjected to.

So there can be, you know, the reactivity makes us do things we might regret, and then the regret makes us feel bad.

And then in the regret and feeling bad, we're all the less likely to be developing the kind of awareness and balance and centeredness that would help us make wiser choices.

Stay tuned for more of women road warriors coming up.

Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.

I have one question for you.

Do you want to stop worrying about the irs?

If the answer is yes, then look no further.

I've been around for years.

I've helped countless people across the country, and my success rate speaks for itself.

So now you know where to to find good, honest help with your tax problems.

What are you waiting for?

If you owe more than $10,000 to the IRS or haven't filed in years, call me now at 888-557-4020 or go to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back.

Industry movement.

Trucking Moves America Forward is telling the story of the industry.

Our safety champions, the women of trucking.

Independent contractors the next generation of truckers and more.

Help us promote the best of our industry.

Share your story and what you love about trucking.

Share images of a moment you're proud of and join us on social media.

Learn more@truckingmovesamerica.com.

Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tak.

Carl.

Energized, calm and clear, balanced and centered.

Wouldn't we all like to be like that?

Henry Shookman teaches thousands of people how as he takes them on a journey of healing.

He's a Zen master of the Sanbo Zen lineage.

He teaches meditation and other techniques.

His new book, Original Love, guides people to shed steady stress and find the intrinsic healing energy, peace and joy that we already have within us.

Henry teaches people to pay attention to their breath, be aware of their bodies and listen.

Be aware of the sounds around them or the soundscape.

This teaches all of us to be still and quiet and present.

It gets our minds off of busy noise where we focus too much of our energy.

This calm keeps us from ruminating or rehashing events.

Henry recommends people just for a little bit of time each day, don't do anything, and just appreciate the fact that we exist.

By doing this, we'll also start to notice the world around us and appreciate its beauty and wonder and want to taste more.

It puts us in the moment so we don't miss out on life and it gives us choices.

Henry's been teaching us some great lessons.

You are a wonderful influence on so many people.

I mean, you're a wonderful teacher.

All of this makes so much sense.

Of course, it takes practice, I'm sure.

And your book Original Love, I know that we wanted to talk about that.

This talks about meditation and spiritual awakening, Am I correct?

Yeah, it absolutely does.

And it tries to provide a kind of map, you know, of the different possibilities that, that we can discover and grow in.

If we follow a path of doing a little bit of this, being quiet and still each day, if we manage to do a little bit of each day, a little bit of it each day, then these things can sort of start to grow in us.

And I say there's four main kind of areas that we can grow in.

And I'm not going to go into in length now, but unless you'd like me to.

But I'll just very briefly say, like the first one is kind of what we've been talking about, and broadly speaking, we call it mindfulness.

It's like being more mindfully aware in the moment, coming back to here and now and being aware of it.

And then the second one is about discovering how connected we are and feeling more connected and more supported and learning to reach out for help when we need it and learning to receive help when it's offered, which is all so important for our development as humans.

And then the third one is about finding flow states, you know, where we get really in a different little bit of a different zone when we're doing something and we suddenly find, you know, something about it feels really great, and then we're just kind of flowing with it.

And, you know, athletes talk about getting in the zone and, you know, musicians get in the zone and.

And actually all of us get in the zone at times where we're doing something, you know, some kind of task or activity.

And, you know, it could be weeding, it could be doing the washing up.

It's very ordinary.

Things can.

Can have flow and we get into this state where it kind of feels nice and easy and, you know, where we're not so conscious of time passing.

So that's a really important thing for it's very good for our mental health to get into flow at times.

And meditation is definitely a practice that can help us get more flow in life.

And then the fourth kind of growth or development we can have is this thing called awakening, which is.

I don't know, that's another deal.

We can get into it, if you're curious, but we could talk about those other ones as well.

Whatever you think.

Well, in terms of awakening, what exactly is that?

It's not just waking up in the morning.

It's something inside of us, right?

Yeah, it is.

And, you know, it's a little shift that can happen.

And I think in my experience, I'd say, you know, many of us have had little glimpses of it, a little sense of it.

It's like moments when, you know, if you look back over your life, like these sort of rare moments when suddenly, I don't know, life just felt different.

And it had a beauty in it and a peace and maybe a kind of vastness.

Maybe there was a sense of awe, a sense of wonder, and you just had a little shiver for a moment that, wow, your life isn't quite what you thought it was, or there's another side to life, which is broad and beautiful and peaceful and of a different sort of order of scale.

It's sort of much bigger.

It feels like that.

So awakening is when we get these real strange but beautiful shifts in how we experience the world where we feel more connected suddenly and we feel vast and Peaceful.

And like, there's something.

Sometimes people get it, you know, looking at a sunset or at a really beautiful painting or listening to a piece of music.

And it's sort of almost like the world.

It's like, gets an extra dimension somehow in it.

Music's always done that for me.

I've always kind of looked at music well, and depending on my mood, I put that kind of music on, you know, and it inspires me.

Of course, I have a music background, so I think that that just reaches deep inside me.

But there's music in Mother Nature, there's music everywhere.

There's a rhythm, all of these things.

And if you can be in harmony with that, it makes so much sense.

And when you were talking about an awakening, it took me back to the age of three, when I was just marveling at things.

And of course, everything seems so huge, and you're so much closer to, like, the grass.

So you smell everything, you know, and everything is so new and wonderful, and you're trying to figure it out.

Is it kind of like that as we go through our awakening, we're getting back in touch with ourselves and relearning the world?

That's very well put.

I think it's very much like that.

And I think there's some research that suggests.

Yeah, when we're really young, we might have more of those characteristics in the way we experience things, because we are more full of wonder and awe and curiosity because we haven't yet got it all locked down, you know?

Yeah.

Like, I know what everything is.

It's actually.

And so this practice can.

Well, you know, in the Zen world, they talk about beginner's mind, like, coming back to a state of mind where we kind of don't think we know what everything is or we don't know how everything will turn out.

We've got more curiosity and openness so that, you know, life can become a journey of discovery rather than kind of, I know what's going to happen because it happened before.

You know, actually, it can be a much more beautiful thing if we don't know what's going to happen, you know, and we.

We just going to wait and see.

And.

And we can be.

It's.

It is more.

It probably is more childlike.

Yeah, I think that's right.

I would think getting into this awakening and the mindfulness and connection, so many people say the world, the time is flying by.

When we were children, it didn't.

But maybe that's why, because we were connected.

We were exploring, we were awakening, we were in the moment, obviously we didn't have any concept of time.

And of course 10 years felt like that's a long time because of our understanding, but we were savoring each and every moment as a child.

We don't do that as an adult.

No, I think that's very true.

So, you know, the invitation in this kind of practice is to get a bit more of that.

It's not like we're going to go backward in the sense, you know, we're still leading our life and we're still happy for skills we've acquired and knowledge we've gained.

That's all good.

But there's a way that moment by moment we can be more aware of here and now.

And it makes it a richer experience and that, you know, and it, yeah, it does, it does connect back to that childhood stuff, as you were saying.

It's really true.

And you know, as we kind of, you know, we keep going in life and we don't want to say, don't do that, but at the same time, there's a way we slow down so that we can actually savor every moment of our life.

Yes.

So I've had to, with my job being so stressful and because we work 13 hour shifts for 14 days straight, so all we do is eat, sleep, work.

And I've had to train myself to calm my mind by, by into integrating a meditation practice during my hours of work, whether I'm just sitting at the shovel getting loaded and I just take a few minutes because there's about a four minute time delay, so then I can just recom.

I just reset my mind to be able to finish the shift.

But in addition to that, I had to start practicing yoga to help me at the end of the day calm down so I could go to sleep.

Because you get so wired up and it's so stressful.

And I mean, 14 days is a long time because you're, It's a very dangerous job that we have.

And I find just the, the time that I take for myself in my yoga practice has changed my, my whole being dramatically.

That is fantastic to hear and you know, I'm sure it's a choice that you've wanted to make, but I'm, I'm, you know, I'm sorry you have such a stressful job, but I'm sure it works for you.

That's, which is great, but that's so wise of you and you're showing something there in what you just said.

Like there's, there's two things we can do one is like really set aside aside a piece of time.

So like when you come off the shift and you do your yoga, that is just brilliant as a way of unwinding from the shift.

And I imagine that's a chunk of time, whether it's 15, 30 minutes or something.

But also.

But every time you're getting loaded up and you've got four minutes of being still and you don't have to do anything, you use that time.

And that's so wise as well.

So having the balance of like a major piece of time that we've set aside for coming home to ourselves and also having little micro hits all through the day, that's the great formula when you got a little bit often, but that's really supported by a larger piece of time that's regular.

And it's so wise of you.

I used to be a musician way back as a young man and I did a lot of touring and gig every night and I'd be wired after a gig and I have a lot of energy and you know, a lot of that sort of, you know, the stress, of course the sympathetic nervous system is really up when you're performing.

It can feel good, by the way.

It activates us.

So, you know, be very activated in my nerves.

11 at night or it's 2 in the morning if, depending on the show, or 4 in the morning and I want to go to sleep, but I'm just wired.

And of course a lot of musicians in that situation, especially when they're young, they might go to alcohol or drugs, you know, they want to somehow they want to unwind and they don't know how to.

And I was lucky.

Like in the band, I was in one of them, there was two or three people who did yoga.

It was part of their life.

And so they started doing yoga after shows and we're staying in a hotel or something, we'd go to somebody's room and do yoga together.

Man, it made such a difference because that was a great way to unwind.

And again, you get back in your body, you know, and the body lives in the present moment.

And in the present moment there's peace, you know, and it stops the mind racing and it was just great.

And I, you know, so yeah, I'm really glad you, you've discovered that too.

Yeah, it's very important.

Yep.

So, Henry, how is your book unique?

What is your technique?

That's different.

It looks like you walk people through the process so they can find this inner peace and serenity that they didn't Know they had.

Yeah, okay, thanks.

There's a couple of things I'd say there.

One is the first thing I think that's not totally unique, but it's very.

I don't think it's been put together the same way I have is that the fundamental reality is that this whole world and us is all one marvelous love.

Basically, I believe from my own experience, and I'm not really, believe it or not, a religious person.

I'm, you know, I'm kind of a science based person.

But I found through this practice that many people come to discover that it seems like there's an underlying.

Some people call it the ground of being.

There's an underlying reality kind of underneath everything we experience.

And maybe some people claim it's like the quantum field.

I don't know what it is, but I know that we can tap into it.

I know we can.

I've seen it so many times when people suddenly say, wow, something weird just happened to me.

So what was it?

I said, well, it just feels like I don't understand it, but everything's okay, I'm okay, everything's okay.

I don't get it.

But I felt like I found this universal peace.

I don't know what it is.

And so I just, you know, and there's a lot of.

Throughout the ancient wisdom traditions that have explored human experience, they report the same thing, you know, so, and a lot of meditators report it, that they get a sudden moment.

It's like that awakening thing we were talking about.

They get a sudden moment, like, wow, I just.

I just had this feeling that everything belongs together.

I don't understand it, you know, and something like that.

So that's an important part of what I teach, is that that's real and it's a real possibility.

And in some ways it's almost, you could say, more real than the ordinary ways we experience life where we feel so separate and sometimes isolated, you know, and actually there's a deep oneness that we're all part of.

So that's one thing.

And I think that's real and I think it's findable and accessible for all of us.

So the other thing that I feel is really so strongly about is like meditation is not supposed to be hard.

It's supposed to be coming back to ourselves.

And so I try to teach it in a way where it's not like, hey, you gotta try to stay conscious of your breath, you know, which is what a lot of people think of as being classic mindfulness, you know.

No, let's just start with how we're doing.

Let's start with like a little check in.

How am I, you know, oh man, I'm actually quite stressed.

Okay, so can I be kind to that?

Can I not try to get rid of that, but instead try to have an attitude of warmth and acceptance and kindness toward myself?

Can I actually love this part of me that's hurting right now?

Because it doesn't feel good to be stressed.

So let me begin with kindness.

And so I see it really as a process of letting go, of releasing, of accepting, of allowing ourselves to be as we are.

And that is what creates beautiful change, is by allowing our lives and ourselves to be the way they are, that gives them the space to grow and change.

And that's how we can find more and more peace.

So that in a nutshell, I love that.

And by achieving this equilibrium, if you will, and this awakening, we can be more productive.

We can be who we're supposed to be.

We can really achieve so many things.

Doing more by doing less.

Because we're going to be more efficient, we're going to be more tranquil and we're going to appreciate it.

It's just a.

It sounds like a win win.

It is a win win.

Yeah.

And the way your book is structured, people can grasp this so easily.

Where do people find your book?

Is it on your website, henry shookman.com and your name is spelled S H U K M A N?

Yes, absolutely.

And you know, it's on all the.

In all the major bookstores, of course, and easily, easily found, easily tracked down.

Yeah.

And people look for the title Original Love.

Correct?

Yes, Original Love.

Now, I don't know, I think I should also mention that I've built an app with a wonderful team and that app.

Yeah, the app is like a step by step guide to doing exactly what we've been talking about.

And it leads you on a journey deeper and deeper into all this stuff.

And you never have to make a choice.

Cause it teaches you session by session by session.

So it's actually like a single pathway.

There's a lot of meditation apps and over 3,000.

And we decided to build another one that is not like any of the others.

And the distinct.

That's what makes it different, is that you don't open it and you get a hundred different courses you can do.

There's only one.

And it teaches you step by step by step how to get into all this stuff we're talking about.

And at the moment we've got a whole year of course There already.

Where do people find that and what is it called?

It's called the Way and it's on the App Store and Google Play for Android.

So people just type in the Way?

Yep, It'll come up the way Meditation path.

And it'll come up.

This is wonderful.

Now, do you work with people virtually, Henry?

Yeah, we actually have a program called Original Love and.

Okay, that's a Zoom.

We have Zoom meetings.

We do courses through the year and we meet on a Sunday morning and a lot of people come to those.

So that's, that's a lovely thing.

And people actually, usually there's a chance to ask questions and, and that sort of thing.

And I.

And we have guest teachers, fantastic teachers coming on and I do a lot myself.

Excellent.

Have you ever heard of the Hu.

Meditation?

How do you spell that?

H, U.

My mom taught me that when I was 14.

And you sing it for 20 minutes a day.

And it has changed my life.

Like I've been singing it day and night for, for the last 40 years and it really, really helps me.

Yeah, that's fantastic to hear.

No, I haven't heard of it and.

But I'm happy.

I'll Google it after and take a look.

That's fantastic.

Yeah, it's, it's amazing.

It's really transformed my life and it's, it's, it's really helped me calm like, like I was saying what I do in the truck at work, it really helps me.

So check it out.

The Hugh Hu.

Okay, great, great, great.

Yeah, there's many, many kinds of meditation, you know.

Yeah.

And, and they're all good, I think.

Yes.

Well, it centers us, which is what we need.

There's so many things that can knock us off our square today.

And if we can just come back in touch with ourselves, we feel like there's a little bit more control and we're going to be happier and have homeostasis.

Isn't that the word?

Yes, it is.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

A well balanced system.

Yes.

Henry, this has been wonderful talking to you.

You make so much sense.

And anybody who thinks meditation's woo woo or anything else, they're gonna understand it really is fundamental to our human condition and it's really needed.

Yeah, I do feel that and I'm very happy that, you know, so many people are finding their way to it these days.

It's gone from when I started, you know, in the late 80s as a, as a young man.

It was kind of fringe and kind of a little bit weird.

And now today, you know, there's there's some.

At least 150 million people in the US alone have tried meditation.

You know, it's been a spectacular transformation.

It really is good.

And they're, you know, there are people I encounter that sometimes I'd like to give them a gift certificate for meditation because they're seriously out of control.

Yeah.

You need this, right?

In our app, we, we have a sharing and referral thing.

Can you can gift 30 days of it to another person.

Oh, that's cool.

I like that.

Yeah.

And it's making the world a better place.

This is wonderful.

That's our hope, you know, and our little bit.

We're doing our little bit for.

For the world.

Yes, you are.

It's been an honor having you, Henry.

This has been a great interview.

Thank you so much.

Well, I'm really honored and delighted to get this time with you.

And, and thank you so much for having me.

Yes, thank you, Henry, for being on the show.

This is going to help a lot of listeners.

We hope you've enjoyed this latest episode.

And if you want to hear more episodes of Women Road warriors or learn more about our show, be sure to check out womenroadwarriors.com and please follow us on social media.

And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on our website.

We also have a selection of podcasts just for women.

There are a series of podcasts from different podcasters, so if you're in the mood for women's podcasts, just click the Power network tab on womenroadwarriors.com youm'll have a variety of shows to listen to anytime you want to.

Podcasts Made for Women Women Road warriors is on all the major podcast channels like Apple, Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube and others.

Check us out and please follow us wherever you listen to podcasts.

Thanks for listening.

You've been listening to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

If you want to be a guest.

On the show or have a topic or feedback, email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.