Jeff Weiss (00:00)

racing is a great way to expose yourself to the risk of failure in a setting that at the end of the day is controlled, is, is safe, is supported. And, and if you do fail, it's.

It's a pretty low consequence ⁓ thing, but certainly lessons to be learned and carry forward.

Paul Warloski (00:40)

Hello and welcome to the athletes compass podcast where we navigate training, fitness and health for everyday athletes. are thrilled to welcome Jeff Weiss to the podcast today. Jeff is a triathlete runner and author who has written several books including racing against time. Right here his memoir of running and Ironman journey. So Jeff, welcome to the podcast. We're glad you're here.

Jeff Weiss (01:03)

Thank you so much for having me. really looking forward to our conversation.

Paul Warloski (01:07)

Well, good. Let's go back to the beginning a little. What sparked your decision to start running at 48 and what was that first 10k like?

Jeff Weiss (01:15)

⁓ my father had passed away about a year before, and, I had gone out to Las Vegas where my mom was living to help her downsize. And it kind of hit me during the, during the couple of days that I was there. That, ⁓ I kind of was at a point in my life where getting more serious about my fitness, about my health was not something to be put off until later that later was essentially was, was now. And so, ⁓ decided to start to look for.

Paul Laursen (01:33)

you

Jeff Weiss (01:44)

something that I could sink my teeth into. I saw a notice for a running class that had the goal of preparing you for the Veterans Day 10K in Washington, DC in November of 2010. Signed up for that.

Paul Laursen (01:47)

you

Jeff Weiss (01:58)

It was given by two wonderful coaches, both multiple time Boston Marathon finishers, and really taught me the basics. And the race itself was a fabulous experience. And I was...

Paul Laursen (01:58)

you

Jeff Weiss (02:12)

I think pretty much bitten by the bug, at least to do another 10K after that first one.

Paul Warloski (02:17)

Yeah, well you went from that first 10k to at 48 to Ironman finishes and ultra marathons by

61. What was the most surprising thing you discovered about your capabilities during this time of transformation in your life?

Jeff Weiss (02:35)

I mean, I think for sure doing the longer distance races, had always believed that either you were a runner or you weren't. And I had always believed that I wasn't a runner. My wife was a gifted runner. One of my younger brothers was quite fast. And I wasn't. And so I figured it just was not for me. I had once told somebody that I was as likely to run a marathon as I was to walk on the moon. ⁓

Marjaana (02:59)

.

Jeff Weiss (03:00)

And so kind of climbing that ladder and like the half marathon, wow, what a surprise, the full incredible and you know, kind of so on. then, and then getting into the world of, of triathlons. And it was just, it was an exciting kind of journey of discovery and each new accomplishment was just, was really thrilling for me and really surprising.

Paul Warloski (03:00)

you

Paul Laursen (03:20)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Warloski (03:23)

In what way surprising?

Jeff Weiss (03:25)

I just didn't think I could do it. didn't think, I didn't think I could run a half marathon. thought I could do a 10 K when I was 17. had tried one and walked the last two miles, but I figured that, you know, with the right kind of training, I could at least do that. but those longer distances, I really didn't think were, were for me. so it was pretty thrilling to, to be able to actually, managed to cross the finish line. In fact, it's funny that the most

happy I've ever been crossing a finish line was my very first half marathon. Even more so than the much longer races that I did later. I think that one really was kind of eye opening because that got me much closer toward the world of marathons and longer races. that was very exciting to me. And for me, like I'm 63 now, I grew up during the era of a wide world of sports. And I remembered

Marjaana (03:53)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jeff Weiss (04:16)

that episode back in the 80s, ⁓ the Ironman World Championships with Julie Moss, essentially collapsing within, I think, just a few dozen yards from the finish line and just willing herself across, crawling the rest of the way. And it just seemed amazing to me, insane. And, you know... ⁓

Maybe walking on Pluto would have been as likely for me as doing a race of that type. So actually getting into those types of events and then actually doing a full Ironman in my 50s was out of this world.

Marjaana (04:53)

So did you grow up as an athlete or played sports?

Paul Laursen (04:58)

you

Marjaana (04:59)

What's your background as a youth?

Jeff Weiss (05:01)

⁓

I was a, I was a tennis player, through college played college tennis at the division three level. so I really did have an identity as an athlete and I was accustomed to working out every day. after college for about the first year, I really didn't have a replacement sport, but I wanted to find one. I tried running briefly, didn't really, didn't really stick. and then got into a weightlifting and then powerlifting.

And so lifting really became my, my go-to sport. I took it very seriously for five, six, eight years. Then, you know, then after getting married, having kids, I still always thought of myself as a lifter and I continued to lift, but not with the same kind of diligence. And so at the time when I was 48, I was still lifting, a couple of times a week, sometimes three, sometimes one. but that was, that was really all that I was doing. And I knew that I needed to do something with endurance.

something with cardiovascular benefits, which is why the running kind of re-emerged as something that I should take another look at.

Marjaana (06:03)

Yeah, it's really fascinating what you said about never felt so happy than the crossing the first half because I love doing new things. And I remember when I was 38 when I did my first triathlon and like it was the best thing ever.

because it's new and you've never done it before and you're a little bit nervous. Can I even do this? Can I finish it? And then you finish and then it's such a elevating feeling. ⁓ So now I'm looking for new challenges all the time. Where can I get that feeling again?

Paul Laursen (06:33)

you

Jeff Weiss (06:45)

I love that. And I think, and it really does, think, directly impact on how you define yourself, how you think of yourself. You do a marathon and you start ⁓ to think that maybe I can start thinking of myself as a marathon or as a triathlete, as an Ironman. And that's a neat thing. Not necessarily to run around with a t-shirt that says that, but just kind of for your own self-confidence and...

And for how you think of yourself as a person who can do hard things, who can take on challenges, who doesn't succumb to fear and anxiety and self-doubt. I think all of that can really be just a wonderful way to live life.

Paul Laursen (07:25)

Yeah, couldn't agree more, Jeff. just completely relating to everything too. So I've.

I've done 18 Iron Man now, I can remember the very first one was, I ⁓ was questioning my ability, whether I could actually do it. Just like you've probably been through as well, right? And when I completed that, was just emotional release. It was wild. But we're breaking through a mental barrier, not necessarily a physical barrier. This capacity is within all of us.

Jeff Weiss (07:33)

Wow.

Paul Laursen (07:56)

were blocked many of the times because of our mind. And I'm not sure what the mechanism is for any of us to kind of get over that and just go forward. But when we do find that way, know, books like yours potentially are openers for that. And yeah, it's like you guys are all saying, it's absolutely wonderful.

Jeff Weiss (08:20)

It's funny. You made me think of a quote, a famous quote by Vince Lombardi, which I may not get a hundred percent right, but basically the good Lord gave you a body that can do pretty much anything. It's the mind that needs convincing. And I think for so many of us, we do place barriers in front of ourselves that really aren't warranted and that prevent us from doing things that would actually be quite fulfilling. I think.

Paul Laursen (08:28)

You

Jeff Weiss (08:44)

You know, for me in writing the book, I really wanted to do what others had done for me when I was first getting started on this journey, reading books from, you know, folks like Rich Roll, David Goggins, Dean Karnazes really inspired me, gave me ideas, gave me training tips. But, but I think mostly just made it all seem very exciting and made me want to be part of that world. And so hopefully, you know, this can, can, can be a bit of that for others, particularly since I don't, I'm not an especially fast.

athlete. So I think when it comes to someone like, like David Goggins, who just, you know, seems like something out of a Marvel comic book. He is so inspiring. He is so amazing. But but maybe the tiniest bit hard to relate to because, you know, how many of us look in the mirror and feel like we're looking at David Goggins. But but but I am, you know, quite the farthest thing from that. And I think

I think you don't need to be as amazing as David to be able to do things that would surprise you and fulfill you.

Paul Warloski (09:47)

You know, and Jeff, you this you have a section in racing against time that I want to read because it's just it's it's it speaks to what you were talking about running comrades. And you can explain what that is in a second. Running comrades a second time would be me living my best life, my daring life, my life of pursuing greatness. It would be about overcoming adversity, of being unafraid of being willing to fail.

of trying again after failing and accepting pain and sacrifice in the pursuit of a lofty goal. And it would be about me chasing my potential of trying to become a me that I will look back on with pride rather than sadness and regret. You know, that's a heck of a mission statement for everyday athletes. you, you unpack what you mean by that?

Jeff Weiss (10:38)

it's funny, I was getting ready for, had tried, so the comrades marathon is the world's largest and oldest ultra marathon. About 20,000 runners participate. it's a 56 mile race, uh, between two South African cities, Peter Meritsburg and Durban. the, the, the course reverses, each year. So one year it's Peter Meritsburg to Durban and then the next year it's, it's the reverse of that.

and it's a very hilly race. It's a very challenging race and there is a strict time cutoff. and so the first time I tried it, I got cut after 11 hours and 51 miles of running. missed the cutoff by a minute 44. so came back a second time, to, see if I could, make some changes and actually have, you know, a complete success on that second one. And so as I was preparing for the second one, I,

was watching a kind of a training webinar for the race and it talked about the importance of finding your why. And it's, it's the kind of thing that I think we all hear. and I realized that I'd never actually sat down, put pen to paper and really thought through what is my, why, why am I doing this crazy, unpleasant race that is just going to, you know, really hurt and be uncomfortable for an incredibly long period of time. And I think even more than just the physical,

Paul Warloski (11:44)

Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (11:51)

Stress of going through a race like that is at least for me, the mental anxiety and the, and the days leading up to it, just knowing what you're in for. I think in many ways that's the hardest part. And so, having a Y really thinking through what your Y is can help you deal with those, ⁓ negative challenging emotions. And so for me, you know, going back a second time, it was, it was not being afraid to fail. I had failed once and I very well could, and in the end did fail a second time.

But but willing to put myself at risk taking chances being daring all things that I really do believe in and find valuable and This is my way to essentially that was my way to kind of put my my money where my mouth was and Yeah, and I think you know looking back I do believe in a kind of the value of kind of an emotional time travel You know, like to

go back in time mentally and think about, I think 17 year old me would be quite excited that in my late 50s, 60s, I was still doing races, was doing races of a kind that even then I would have thought impossible. And I think at the end of my life, I wanna be able to look back and say, I took chances, I did things that were pretty cool and I didn't take always the safe, easy route in life. You think of that famous scene with Marlon Brando and on the waterfront, I could have been a contender like.

We don't want to live life with those kinds of regrets.

Paul Warloski (13:17)

Wow.

Paul Laursen (13:18)

So good. I think we relate.

Paul Warloski (13:21)

Yeah, very much so.

You know, so many people think that they're too old to start serious racing, start serious fitness work. what would you tell someone who's 45 or 50 or 55 and considering their first race?

Jeff Weiss (13:37)

it's funny. I, you know, I think there's a tendency on the part of some older athletes who have had, you've done some nice things to, you know, to there's that famous satchel page line that, it's age is it's an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. It does matter. for sure it does. and you need to give it its due, but

You can start racing in your 40s and your 50s and you can still go plenty far if that's what you are motivated to do At the end of the day whether you know you specifically want to become a marathoner or just get more serious about your fitness Starting at any age the sciences couldn't be more clear Will lead to improvement you can start in your 80s. You can start in your 90s and you will improve now what you might be capable of

Paul Warloski (14:12)

Hmm.

Jeff Weiss (14:21)

getting to if you start in your eighties is going to be different than what you might achieve if you started in your forties or fifties. But there's also no question that fitness will extend your health span, ⁓ the period of your life where you are essentially in generally good health, able to do the basic things that we all tend to enjoy playing with playing with grandkids, being able to carry your own groceries, put your own bag in the overhead compartment on the plane, hiking.

you know, just kind of enjoying life, playing pickleball, whatever it might be. And so I think if, you know, we should all take care to do whatever we can reasonably within our power to contribute to the longest, healthiest health span that we can have for ourselves. It will pay unbelievable dividends in the longterm. And I would argue also in the short term and the short term, you know, you'll have more energy. You'll have a better self image. Um,

Paul Laursen (14:54)

you

Jeff Weiss (15:17)

it will make you feel younger, it'll make you feel better and make you sleep better. And

so, you think you'll benefit today, tomorrow, next month, and 10, 20, 30 years from now. And what could be better than that?

Marjaana (15:30)

So how long did it take you from crossing that 10k to Ironman or a marathon and how did you make it happen in terms of combining work and life and everything?

Paul Laursen (15:30)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Warloski (15:32)

you

Jeff Weiss (15:42)

⁓ I did the first.

I mean, one of the advantages of starting later is, my kids were, you know, were, pretty nicely grown. I'm sure there are people who do it, but I, I struggled to imagine, a parent of an infant, disappearing for, three, four hour long runs or five, six hour long cycles. while the other parent is home with that, with a child, with a small child, but, ⁓

But so, you know, basically did my training

early in the morning. would do, would work out on one weekend day, not both weekend days. So one weekend day, no interruptions with, with family than the other one. You know, again, I would always try to do things as early as I could in the morning. both because I wanted to, know, in the world of personal finance, they talk about paying yourself first. If you pay yourself first, you put money aside at the beginning of the month, right? When you get your paycheck, before you start spending,

That way you will be certain to save. I think if you exercise first thing in the morning, you are more certain to get your workout in while you still have control of your day. And, you know, if you have family and you can work out early, it's going to be minimally disruptive to your family life. And I think also for me with work, working out early allowed me to finish before my workday started. And once the workday started, I felt like I no longer had control. And if I was planning on working out at lunch or at night,

Paul Laursen (17:02)

you

Jeff Weiss (17:03)

It might not happen if there was a work emergency, but first thing in the morning, you know, that I could pretty much count on.

But basically, I think with

respect to how much time I went from the 10K in 2010, half marathon in 2011, full marathon in 2012. did my first ultra in 2017. did my first started with sprint triathlons in 2011. Um, did my first half Ironman in

2018. And then the first full in 2019.

Marjaana (17:39)

That's a really nice progression. Like every year you added something new and gave yourself enough time to, you know, take on a new challenge. Was it, you mentioned in the beginning that like you believe that you can't do it. Like I remember after my first triathlon, I'm like, no, I can never do half Ironman. Nah, I can never do a marathon.

Paul Warloski (17:41)

Mm-hmm.

Marjaana (18:02)

But then you just kind of get curious. Like, what was it for you, like, obviously wanted to do, get into better shape, take care of yourself health-wise, and then you're like, okay, I'm going to sign up for this 10K. Like, what were the process of thinking after the 10K? Like, why did you want to see the next step?

Jeff Weiss (18:23)

I think it was, I guess one thing that I can articulate and the other one that may be not as clearly. think the one that I can clearly articulate is I always felt like if I was preparing for a race, I knew that I would be disciplined about my workouts, that I wouldn't be tempted to shorten the workout, to cut a corner here or there, that I would know, look, I've got a race and if I'm not working out properly, I'm not going to be sufficiently prepared. I could get hurt.

I could not finish. I could have a bad experience. And so to me, having a race on the calendar training for a thing mentally, emotionally was easier for me than just training to train. so that was part of it. And then the part that is a little more, touchy feely is the right word, but it just spoke to me that I did this. I wonder if I can climb a little bit higher. I wonder if I could go a little farther and it just became something that

⁓ like an itch that I just kept wanting to scratch. And I don't think I'm that unusual. I think lots of folks, once they, you know, once they do that first race, they do get a bit bitten by the bug and, and, want to see what more they might be capable of. It's, it's a wonderful thing to surprise yourself. And, once you surprise yourself, you know, a first time you want to do it again and, and again and again.

Paul Warloski (19:47)

So your book, and you were kind of just mentioning this, but in the book you emphasize kind of the mental aspects of endurance sport. And you talked about that with comrades and the suffering you deal with. What mental strategies would you recommend or did you use for, know, recommend for everyday athletes who struggle with self doubt or motivation?

Jeff Weiss (20:11)

⁓ I think a couple of things. I I'm a huge believer. First of all, I'm working with a coach, especially for a challenging race. I think, you know, if you can work with a coach, you really ought to do it because I think working with the coach gives you confidence that you are training according to a good plan. it gives you accountability.

And so for me, when I do a workout, I know that my coach is going to see my results and I better do what I am, what he's expecting me to do. And we do a team's call once a week. And so I'm going to have to answer if I've been missing things. Not that he's a taskmaster that way, but I just know that he'll be looking and he'll, you we'll talk about it. And so I want to be able to give a good report. ⁓

Marjaana (20:40)

Yeah. Thank you.

Paul Warloski (20:45)

the

Jeff Weiss (20:55)

So I think that's huge. Just knowing that you're training the right way under supervision. I think that gives a lot of confidence. think really thinking about your why, why are you doing this stuff? And then reminding yourself of that during the difficult times. Some people like mantras. My coach actually gave me one for my longest foot race, 72 mile ultra marathon. He told me, said, look, when you start to feel down,

Paul Laursen (21:13)

you

Jeff Weiss (21:19)

Remind yourself I'm fit. I'm strong. I can keep going and I did actually

Paul Laursen (21:23)

you

Jeff Weiss (21:24)

do it and it did actually seem to keep me moving forward. and that was, that was a long, long, long race and there definitely were some low moments, low moments there. and look, I think that's one of the big challenges with these longer races. You know, you could go out and do five Ks, 10 Ks, maybe even a half marathon. and really never have a low moment. just basically.

depending on how good an athlete you are, just knock it out and it's fine. But for really long races, for Ironman, for ultras, there's going to be some long moments in there. And no matter how much you understand that mentally, it is a bit bracing when they do actually come. And you do want to be thinking ahead as to how I'm going to deal with it. I think having a why, having a strategy, in ultras I'm big into candies.

And just, you know, candies seem to improve the mood. so, ⁓ so I make liberal use of those, but yeah. And I think also just thinking through, remember hearing some coach talk about, in a low moment in an ultra, you really do want to quit, but just think about how you're going to feel after the race. you quit versus how are you going to feel crossing that finish line and getting that medal? And that one.

Paul Warloski (22:30)

Hmm.

Jeff Weiss (22:40)

Every time is going to tell you, whoa, like it's going to suck to quit. And I'm going to tomorrow, I'm going to feel awful. I'm going to be embarrassed having to report this to my friends, to my coach, to whoever. and conversely, if I finish and I get that medal, ⁓ what a nice source of pride that's going to be for me.

Marjaana (22:59)

Totally.

Ever since my first Ironman 2019, I carry little notes from my family. So every big race, they write a note for me and I put them in a Ziploc bag and I carry them throughout the race because I know exactly what happens that some periods I'm gonna feel like quitting. So then I pick up one of those notes and I try to read it while I'm like biking or running, usually running. I save them for like T2 or...

on the run and that always gives me a boost because usually they write something funny. Yeah, because it reminds me of my my why and also puts a smile on my face.

Paul Warloski (23:33)

That's awesome. Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (23:35)

I'd love that. I think that's an absolutely great thing to do. I think that's an absolutely great thing to do.

And it also, it also, what you're doing reminds you that you're not alone, that there are people

Marjaana (23:48)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Laursen (23:49)

you

Jeff Weiss (23:49)

out there who are rooting for you. ⁓ my, my girlfriend from my first Ironman snuck notes into my, transition bags. And that was an incredible lift to pull out those notes. And they were surprises, like, you know, getting ready to change shoes and you see a note in there and, you know, put a smile on my face and, and just, just like a little bolt of.

Marjaana (24:00)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (24:12)

a little jolt of adrenaline. was wonderful. yeah, I'd love that you do that. think that's wonderful.

Marjaana (24:15)

Totally, yeah. Yeah,

because you are kind of like alone there throughout the day and then you connect with your home base.

Jeff Weiss (24:29)

Especially for folks like me who were finishing, you know, later at night. You're running that marathon and it's dark and I did Arizona twice and it actually got decently cold in the desert in the fall. The temperature really drops and it's dark and it's cold and it's been a long day and you are sore. And yeah, that's when you really, I think,

Marjaana (24:39)

Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (24:55)

Learn some things about yourself, but but when it's over, it's a wonderful thing to look back on.

Paul Laursen (24:56)

You

Marjaana (25:02)

Yeah.

Paul Warloski (25:03)

I quote Hamilton lyrics when I'm in the middle of a gravel bike race. I'm singing Hamilton and trying to focus my energy that way, but it's a challenge. Jeff, you wrote this at the end of your book. I think a strong argument can be made that you should continue to seek your limits, which you can only really identify by coming up short in the pursuit of a lofty goal. ⁓

Jeff Weiss (25:08)

Ha

I love that.

Paul Warloski (25:29)

I love that because you finished the Ironmans, but you didn't complete the Comrades Marathon. Can you talk more about that?

Jeff Weiss (25:38)

Yeah, it's funny. In some ways, comrades was it was a huge, huge, huge plus for me and really transformed so much of my journey because before I set foot on that course, the first time I told myself there's a good chance at least 50 % that you will not succeed in this race. And I remember reading somewhere that

Paul Laursen (25:44)

you you

Paul Warloski (25:54)

you

Jeff Weiss (26:04)

You know, if you train for a milestone race and it's really like at the outer edge of what you can do and you succeed, you're very prone to having kind of a post-race depression. That was so exciting to chase this goal and I succeeded, but now what? And the writer who had talked about this suggested a cure or a solution, which is plan your next race before you start your goal race so that

Paul Warloski (26:16)

Hmm.

Jeff Weiss (26:31)

The moment you cross the finish line you can start to think about the next big thing and so for me I thought you know what if if there's the chance of depression by succeeding I can only imagine that the pressure will be worse by failing So

Paul Laursen (26:35)

you

Jeff Weiss (26:43)

I really do need to take this seriously and so I planned my next two stretch goals Which was to do a half Ironman? The following year and then to do my first full the year after that

And so, and I wouldn't have done though, I wouldn't have planned those races. wouldn't have taken on those challenges. I don't think, ⁓ if I hadn't tried comrades. So for me, comrade, the comrades failure very directly led to, to some of my very biggest, ⁓ successes. And then I think also with comrades, I came to realize that the distance didn't intimidate me. was the time cutoff that I found problematic for a slow athlete like me. So I,

Paul Laursen (27:01)

So, thank you

Paul Warloski (27:19)

Hmm.

Jeff Weiss (27:23)

I later went on to do a longer race, a race that was 16 miles longer, but that didn't have the

cutoff issue that had so challenged me in South Africa. So yeah, think for me, Comrades led to lots of good things. Would have loved to have finished that race and gotten that medal, but that's okay. I think we need to be comfortable with that as long as we give it our all. My two sons both...

both played hockey. One actually played into college or through college. And I told him once when he was a kid, I said, you should win every game you play. And of course you can't win every game you play. But it depends on how you define winning. And if you define winning as, know, I gave it my all, I was a good teammate, I enjoyed myself, I you know, I had a fun experience, you won. I mean, it's a team sport, like literally what the final score is going to be, you only have so much control over that. So

Paul Warloski (28:12)

Hmm.

Jeff Weiss (28:18)

You can't make that the measure of your success. The measure of your success is what you kind of put into it. so, you know, with Comras, I really did give it my all. mean, I did the training religiously. was way out of my comfort zone. And, and I came close and, ran much farther than I ran 20 miles farther than I'd ever run in a race before. So I was, I was very thrilled at least with that.

Paul Warloski (28:30)

Mm.

So you worked through in your book, you describe some of the injuries in the process of training for the marathons and the Ironmans and comrades. How did you work through those and what did you learn from them?

Jeff Weiss (28:58)

⁓ I think a couple of things, I mean, over time, I think I got better at, they always talk about the importance of listening to your body. So I think over time I got better at noticing when an injury might be coming on and backing off or modifying my training in some fashion or, to try to head an injury off. But if I did get injured and I have gotten injured a number of times over the, over the years that I've been doing this, I have several rules for myself. One is.

if I need to go to an orthopedic surgeon, I always go to one who's a sports guy. and if for physical therapy, same thing, it has to be someone who is sports oriented because there are doctors who look at sport and fitness as integral to, to a good life. And there actually are still doctors out there who don't get it at all and think, well, why, why would you run a marathon? you should be taking it easy. I wouldn't even do that anymore. I, you know, sit, stay home, sit on the couch, just rest a little bit more.

Paul Warloski (29:28)

Hmm.

Paul Laursen (29:50)

you

Jeff Weiss (29:51)

And ⁓ I don't want,

I don't believe in that. I think it is important to be out there sensibly, but I think it is important to be out there ⁓ and to be active. And so I want, I want to work with folks who want to help me get there. Now I'm trying to get more serious about flexibility. Yoga was something that I had played with a few times over the years, honestly hated it like crazy. And then finally, like in the last few months, I have

Really actually kind of fall in love with it. I'm now doing it three days a week and really want to start to get much more serious about my flexibility. And in general, want to start thinking about more fundamentally, how do I make this body last and be as effective as it can be for as long as it can be.

Paul Laursen (30:36)

Absolutely, I can relate. I'm on the yoga train as well.

Jeff Weiss (30:41)

That's awesome. That's

awesome. I never thought I would get there, but it really did finally the light bulb finally did go off, which was ⁓ which was delightful.

Marjaana (30:44)

I tried to, but I can't make it stick.

Paul Warloski (30:51)

What changed, Jeff? What changed in your...

Jeff Weiss (30:53)

Honestly, I got hurt.

and ⁓ the yoga has been part of my rehab. And so literally, it feels like every session, I can feel my body healing, I can feel my range of motion improving. And it's almost like now I understand what this is for. This really is helping my body. It's not just something that's that's causing me to feel foolish because I am so stiff and inflexible.

Paul Warloski (31:12)

Hmm.

Jeff Weiss (31:21)

⁓ instead I'm realizing that, it's actually helping me to become, you know, better, more flexible. And I just need to take this more seriously. And it just makes me feel so much better about my body. So, and I've got a great instructor. that always helps. so yeah, it's, it's been a nice discovery. I'm also, I got into ice baths, within the last year or so. I think those are quite good.

I think they're quite good on multiple levels. mean, I think the science is pretty strong that they really do help with recovery. I try to do those after a long run in particular. And I, can really feel the difference just between how I felt going in and how I feel going out of the ice bath. And it also is just in a micro form. It's a great emotional challenge because every, no matter how many times you do it, like right before you go in, there's that little bit of, it's going to be cold and you go in and you sit there and.

Marjaana (31:58)

you

Jeff Weiss (32:14)

You know, I started with two minutes. I worked up to three minutes. And of course there people who do much more than that, but it's wild. Again, something that I wouldn't have thought that I could do. I always hated cold water. And ⁓ to be in water that's just a few degrees above freezing ⁓ and to do it with controlled breathing, not with a sense of panic or anguish ⁓

Paul Laursen (32:22)

you

Jeff Weiss (32:38)

is pretty amazing.

Paul Laursen (32:39)

the science supports that. It amplifies the, it's called your parasympathetic reactivation. So switches you into the rest and digest central nervous system more profoundly than you would have already

been at. yeah, it works.

Jeff Weiss (32:54)

Yep. Yeah, it's quite, it's quite cool.

Paul Laursen (32:58)

it's not easy to get there though, right? Like you, it's something that you train just like anything. So you probably noticed that you, at first it was kind of difficult to do that, but then just like training, the next time, I can go a little bit farther, I can go a little bit farther, right? So.

Jeff Weiss (33:15)

Yeah. I mean, I remember

I was terrified before I went in the first time I did a workshop, you know, several hours practicing the breathing with like 15 other people. And we got into two big lines because they had, they had two ice baths and, you know, everybody went in and, I just remember being super anxious about how it would go and I made it, but it was, it was hard. the last like 30, 40 seconds I was, it was, it was a nail biter.

Paul Laursen (33:29)

you

Jeff Weiss (33:40)

I really started to suffer and it just was amazing to, know, after, after starting doing it on a regular basis

to just, it was, it was totally routine, you know, still that little bit of a butterflies in the stomach before you right before you dipped in, but then just doing it and getting out. it was no big deal.

Paul Laursen (33:48)

And

how much does this relate already, you know, back to where we started this with breaking through the mental barrier, which isn't a physical barrier, right? We can do anything that we put our mind to it. And you are, you know, in either the comrade's Iron Man context or the...

Paul Warloski (34:07)

Thank you.

Paul Laursen (34:15)

ice cold bath context. It's a mental barrier to go and achieve this. again, back to your quote that you put there, it's just these are mental problems, not physical problems.

Jeff Weiss (34:28)

And I'm a big believer that I always love like with kids, this whole concept of sports is a, you know, is a metaphor for life. And I think it's true for us as adults as well. I think it's true for us. I got into the startup world when I was 50 and, there as well did a lot of things are outside of my comfort zone, things I never thought I would do. And, it was great to have, to have cultivated that mindset that,

Marjaana (34:32)

Mm-hmm.

Jeff Weiss (34:54)

You know, I'm confident that I can do things that are hard, even if they take time, even if it's challenging. And even if there's some chance that it won't work out, I can still persevere. And I think there's so many places in life or so many areas of life where that is an important mindset to have.

Paul Laursen (35:14)

Geez, Jeff, thank you so much. Thank you for counseling us right now.

And I think we're needing all of our resilience that we've learned from our endurance world and

to embrace that right now and use that also in our startup world. So yeah, thank you for that reminder.

Marjaana (35:32)

was going to say, Paul you just said what I was going to say, but learning how to do ice bath, it is very similar to any training. Your mind wants to stay on the couch so bad, but if you can get your shoes on and get out the door,

Paul Warloski (35:33)

Yeah.

Jeff Weiss (35:47)

Yeah.

Marjaana (35:51)

That's the hardest part. The same thing with ice bath, like getting in, putting that first toe tip in the cold water and just like forcing yourself to go in there. That is the hardest part. And I tell my daughter especially, she always says, mom, I'm scared. I'm scared. She doesn't want to do new things. So she is scared to go to a higher level basketball or whatnot. And I was like, I know you're scared Mila, but.

Jeff Weiss (36:03)

And.

Marjaana (36:20)

Do it scared. So I always say do it scared. Anyways, like just go and try it out. so, so that's my, that's my go-to when I am a little bit scared. Let's do it scared.

Jeff Weiss (36:23)

Yeah.

That I love that I think that's actually that's a great phrasing. And I think that is right to acknowledge the fear. There's nothing there's no shame in it. But also know that if you do stick with it, if you do continue that fear will lessen. And it's not like this is going to be an ongoing, ⁓ awful experience for me. But but that first time, maybe the first few times can be really challenging. It's also funny you said dip your toe in. You know, one of the things too about icepads is you got to get in there. ⁓

Marjaana (36:38)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paul Warloski (36:59)

Yeah

Jeff Weiss (36:59)

You can't dip your toe in. gotta basically just commit yourself. I'm going to get into this thing. I'm going to sit and I'm going to do that fast. Not like jumping into a pool, but I mean you need to go in with intention and ⁓ you know with a fair amount of acceleration. you can't sort of pussyfoot around about am I going in? Am I not going in? It's not like going into a pool. ⁓

Marjaana (37:01)

That's clear.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, because your

mind will have time to talk you out of it if you start like second guessing. ⁓

Jeff Weiss (37:25)

Correct. Exactly. Exactly.

It's funny. I saw somebody at my at the place where I go. She was brand new. She was there with her boyfriend and that's what she was doing. She was like just she kind of dipped her toe in and she's like, I can't do it. It's too cold. And it's like, you just got to go in. Like that's the that is the hard part. And it's the hardest part. Once you've done that, they'll be challenged though. But it's not as challenging as just that emotional barrier of I need to just get into this thing and it'll be fine.

Marjaana (37:42)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Paul Warloski (37:55)

Jeff, you're in your early 60s. How has your approach to being an everyday athlete evolved and what are you working on now? You had said in the book that you got into the Tokyo Marathon and you're hoping to do all the majors. Is that still on the table?

Jeff Weiss (38:11)

Yeah, very much so. I mean, still working out six days a week, still training for races. I did Tokyo in 2024 and ended up being a glorious, uh, experience for me. actually got a PB. I broke, my prior, personal best from 10 years before, um, in 2014, my second marathon. so that was, that was really exciting. then I did London in April of 2025.

Marjaana (38:25)

Thanks.

Jeff Weiss (38:34)

And Berlin a few months ago in September of 2025. although I went from my fastest marathon in 2024 to Berlin, my slowest marathon, ever, think my 13th or 14th marathon, and it was my slowest. And, and I realized later, I actually, had an injury which I aggravated during that race. And so w which got me to the where I am now, which is, ⁓ which is some rehab, ⁓ but now building back up, actually still can't run right now.

So doing the elliptical swimming, spinning and cycling. ⁓ And I'll be out running, I'm sure within the next month or so. And then I still have the three American majors and I'm doing the six original world majors. So Tokyo, Berlin, London, New York, Chicago, Boston. Probably we'll do Chicago next in October, then New York the following year, and then Boston the April ⁓ after that.

Paul Warloski (39:24)

Good.

Jeff Weiss (39:30)

That's the current plan. then, you know, I'll always be looking for new things. I did a 50 mile trail run also after the book, ⁓ which in some ways was my favorite race ever. I could see doing another one like that, you know, running through the forest. It's it's quite an adventure. And that one was really unique because I ended up like halfway through the race. I came across this. I.

I reached this clearing and there was a woman who was ahead of me and she was walking and she was crying. And so I asked if anything was wrong, if she needed a gel, salt, something to drink. And she said, no, I just don't think I can do it. And I said, of course you can do it. And I kind of blurted out my strategy for the next half of the race. And she's like, I just don't think so. And so I kept going and ⁓ a few minutes later I heard footsteps behind me and I turned around and it was her. And she said, look, I don't mean to be a creep.

But I feel like if I don't stay with you, I'm not going to finish this race. And I said, oh, well, in that case, let's just do it together. And so we did the second half of the race together. It was fantastic. I think she was a better runner than me. So we really helped each other. We talked strategy. We adjusted strategy. And that's the kind of experience I actually would like to have again to do a race with another person. And it really got me out of my head. I think if I hadn't been running with her, I probably would have, you know,

Marjaana (40:46)

Mm-hmm.

Jeff Weiss (40:56)

Engage in all the things, you know, the down moments and all the rest and would have had to work through those. But, having to worry about somebody else's race, prevented me, think from wallowing in self-pity, which you can sometimes do in the longer races. And, and I think the same was true for her. I think she felt some responsibility for, for my race and that got her out of her, kind of,

Paul Warloski (41:05)

you ⁓

Jeff Weiss (41:17)

Doubt about whether or not she could persevere. So So yeah, that was that was quite wonderful

Marjaana (41:24)

I love that story, like, you know, unpredictable

Paul Laursen (41:24)

Me too.

Marjaana (41:28)

friendships.

During ultra runs, yeah. It's just kind of like sharing the struggle and pain and it alleviates it when you share it with someone.

Jeff Weiss (41:40)

And it's

controlled. think that's one of the things that I so much like about races. Like, you know, we talk about things like pain and depression and sadness in a race, but it's none of it is that big of a deal. Like it's a controlled setting. Like you guys are in, you know, in the startup world, you hear people talk about, ⁓ failure is great. You you got to, you want to fail and learn from your failure and then build a success. And it's like,

First of all, you don't really want to be rushing into failures in the startup world. That's not the goal. The goal is to be successful. Now you might have to pivot. might have to, you know, you might have to reconsider certain strategies and all the rest, but, the goal isn't to fail, but, we can learn from failures. to me, racing is a great way to expose yourself to the risk of failure in a setting that at the end of the day is controlled, is, is safe, is supported. And, and if you do fail, it's.

It's a pretty low consequence thing, but certainly lessons to be learned and carry forward.

Paul Laursen (42:42)

Thank

Paul Warloski (42:43)

Well, Jeff, thank you

so much. We appreciate you coming on to the Athletes Compass.

Jeff Weiss (42:49)

Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed chatting with you and very excited to hear about your own races. I think what you guys are doing is wonderful

Marjaana (42:58)

Thank you so much. Thank you.

Paul Laursen (42:59)

Thank you, Jeff. That was great. And again, I appreciate the council and the analogy back to the startup world is really timely for us. So thank you.

Jeff Weiss (43:10)

Totally, totally my pleasure. I wish you guys the best of luck with that.

Paul Warloski (43:15)

Thanks for listening today to the Athletes Compass podcast. Take a moment now, subscribe, share, and let's keep navigating this endurance adventure together. Improve your training with the science-based training platform, Athletica, and join the conversation at the Athletica Forum. For Jeff Weiss, Marjaana Rakai, and Dr. Paul Laursen I'm Paul Warloski and this has been the Athletes Compass podcast. Thank you so much for listening.