1 00:00:02,009 --> 00:00:05,189 Janice Porter: Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode 2 00:00:05,219 --> 00:00:09,869 of relationships rule. My guest this week is Dr. Keith McNally. 3 00:00:10,139 --> 00:00:14,579 And I'm quite excited to talk to him and I'm being completely 4 00:00:14,579 --> 00:00:22,739 distracted by his legal structures behind him. So I, I 5 00:00:22,739 --> 00:00:27,119 have a, I have a nephew who's very much into Lego, an adult in 6 00:00:27,119 --> 00:00:30,359 there for nephew who's very much into Lego. And so I find this 7 00:00:30,359 --> 00:00:33,719 really fascinating because it's another whole world that I 8 00:00:33,719 --> 00:00:38,879 haven't really gotten into yet. So sorry about that. But it is 9 00:00:38,879 --> 00:00:43,229 what it is. I want to tell you a little bit about Dr. Key. And 10 00:00:43,259 --> 00:00:48,539 then we're going to get into the conversation. He How did we meet 11 00:00:48,539 --> 00:00:51,389 we met because somebody asked if I was interested in having in my 12 00:00:51,389 --> 00:00:54,629 podcast him on my podcast, but I think we had been on a 13 00:00:56,249 --> 00:01:00,299 networking event together as well, that a bunch of people I 14 00:01:00,299 --> 00:01:03,809 met there were very cool people. And there are podcast people as 15 00:01:03,809 --> 00:01:08,819 you are. And Dr. Keith has a three podcasts that he has 16 00:01:09,509 --> 00:01:12,569 developed over the past few years. And we'll get into that a 17 00:01:12,569 --> 00:01:20,759 little bit. But he's a US Marine that. And I'm not sure and I 18 00:01:20,759 --> 00:01:25,649 will ask you this in a minute. If the reason for your attempted 19 00:01:25,649 --> 00:01:32,489 suicides, one or both of them was PTSD type of situation. But 20 00:01:32,519 --> 00:01:37,139 you were in a low place at one point or twice in your life and 21 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,729 things have and you had a heart attack that you survived as 22 00:01:41,729 --> 00:01:45,359 well. And so you, I don't know, I'm gonna get you to tell me 23 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:49,829 this, you turned your life around in so many ways and made 24 00:01:50,009 --> 00:01:53,819 other people well, as well, because of what the work that 25 00:01:53,819 --> 00:02:01,289 you do. So I know that in during the horrible pandemic, you 26 00:02:01,319 --> 00:02:04,289 needed people to talk to, I think we all need people to talk 27 00:02:04,289 --> 00:02:09,089 to you. And it's just a question of, you know, how who, what, and 28 00:02:12,059 --> 00:02:15,719 you actually reached out on LinkedIn to people, so I'm gonna 29 00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:18,779 get you to tell that story. So welcome to the show. First of 30 00:02:18,779 --> 00:02:21,269 all, I'm going to call you Dr. Keith, or just keep, 31 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:23,520 Dr. Keith McNally: you're gonna call me Keith, because this is 32 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,800 gonna be a casual conversation sounds 33 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,720 Janice Porter: good. And something else was gonna say, 34 00:02:30,780 --> 00:02:34,530 Can't remember. So start there start with telling me about, you 35 00:02:34,530 --> 00:02:39,900 know, where you were, what happened, and how you you know, 36 00:02:39,900 --> 00:02:43,800 how you brought yourself to where you are now, to amazing, 37 00:02:44,250 --> 00:02:45,960 Dr. Keith McNally: okay, that sounds like a good point, you 38 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:51,000 know, a good place to start. So I blame my life on COVID. And a 39 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,730 lot of people will say that in a very negative way. But I'm gonna 40 00:02:53,730 --> 00:02:59,730 flip the coin and say, in a very positive way. And so it, we all 41 00:02:59,730 --> 00:03:02,910 recognize the situation COVID brought upon, you know, 42 00:03:02,910 --> 00:03:06,450 basically the world and so all of us were dealing with it in 43 00:03:06,450 --> 00:03:13,140 very unique but very specific ways. And many of us lost loved 44 00:03:13,140 --> 00:03:17,970 ones, friends, homes, money, jobs, you know, whatever it is, 45 00:03:17,970 --> 00:03:22,680 whatever, you can put a name to it, you probably lost it. Um, 46 00:03:23,310 --> 00:03:27,240 the other side of the coin was that, and this is what I was 47 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,940 finding when I when I was having this conversation. So and we'll 48 00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:36,060 get to how I got there was when people were waking up in the 49 00:03:36,060 --> 00:03:40,740 morning, and they may not have lost a whole lot. But in a 50 00:03:40,740 --> 00:03:44,460 sense, they had lost their identity, meaning that when they 51 00:03:44,460 --> 00:03:48,630 looked at themselves in the mirror, they weren't either 52 00:03:48,630 --> 00:03:52,590 happy or proud of what they were seeing. And so everything that 53 00:03:52,590 --> 00:03:57,030 they had accumulated career wise, basically, you know, in 54 00:03:57,030 --> 00:04:01,200 life, whether it be the houses, the cars, the money's no longer 55 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,620 held the real value that it thought it should have. And 56 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,430 either side of the coin, people were making intentional pivots 57 00:04:08,430 --> 00:04:11,280 and changes to do something about their life, whether to 58 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,420 survive it, and thrive through it, you know, the chaos of COVID 59 00:04:16,110 --> 00:04:19,560 or to align themselves with a better version of themselves 60 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,060 that they really wanted to be proud of, and find value in and 61 00:04:25,260 --> 00:04:31,020 my story regarding the COVID situation was, you know, through 62 00:04:31,050 --> 00:04:34,260 a set of variables, I had lost my job and it happened to be at 63 00:04:34,260 --> 00:04:37,470 the tail end of COVID through the quarantine. And 64 00:04:37,860 --> 00:04:43,080 unfortunately, I was unemployed for 12 months and being now 54 65 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:49,620 going on 55 So my younger 50s That took an incredible hit on 66 00:04:49,830 --> 00:04:55,920 who I was as a person as a dad. You know, me career, I'm losing. 67 00:04:56,070 --> 00:04:59,970 Basically I'm trying to hold on to white knuckled you know fists 68 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,730 With everything that I was losing, and it wasn't working, 69 00:05:02,730 --> 00:05:09,900 and so yeah, I had thought and made the attempt to take my own 70 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:14,550 life. And so, and that was the second time in in 12 years. So 71 00:05:14,550 --> 00:05:19,590 2013 and 2021. Were specifically, it wasn't 72 00:05:19,590 --> 00:05:22,230 necessarily around post traumatic stress. Now I am a US 73 00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:28,110 Marine and I have a combat background, I was an I was 74 00:05:28,110 --> 00:05:31,650 directly in infantry, and specifically in mortars as a 75 00:05:31,650 --> 00:05:37,560 Marine. But that I'm not going to credit any of that passed to 76 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,790 why I took, you know, took the attempt to take my own life, you 77 00:05:41,790 --> 00:05:45,390 know, it made the attempt, it was really life circumstances 78 00:05:45,390 --> 00:05:52,110 that I was never fully prepared for. And because of that, I felt 79 00:05:52,110 --> 00:05:58,440 the only way out, the best way out was to literally be out. And 80 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,110 so that's really kind of the nature of my story. 81 00:06:01,710 --> 00:06:05,160 Janice Porter: Had you been were you primarily an introverted 82 00:06:05,190 --> 00:06:07,320 loner kind of person. 83 00:06:09,060 --> 00:06:11,430 Dr. Keith McNally: You actually, I actually call myself a misfit. 84 00:06:11,430 --> 00:06:15,240 And so you know, growing up, you know, grade school, middle 85 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,410 school, high school, college, never really fit in, I'm 86 00:06:19,740 --> 00:06:22,890 definitely an introvert. My parents divorced when I was 10. 87 00:06:22,890 --> 00:06:27,090 And so, all the chaos that was involved with, you know, my home 88 00:06:27,090 --> 00:06:30,870 life really kind of stuck with me. And so I didn't develop 89 00:06:30,870 --> 00:06:35,010 friendships, well, or if I did, I didn't develop many of them. 90 00:06:35,730 --> 00:06:40,920 So a lot of what I lacked was was resources, you know, family 91 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,450 resources, friends, the ability to connect, the ability to 92 00:06:45,450 --> 00:06:49,770 socialize, basically, in a very, what would seem a very natural 93 00:06:49,770 --> 00:06:54,810 way that most kids, college students adults do, I have never 94 00:06:54,810 --> 00:06:59,190 really developed those skills until basically, a couple of 95 00:06:59,190 --> 00:07:01,710 years ago. So, right, so. 96 00:07:02,790 --> 00:07:08,730 Janice Porter: So you say that you needed people to talk to, to 97 00:07:08,730 --> 00:07:14,430 network with, and you needed to find a job I imagined so that 98 00:07:14,460 --> 00:07:18,150 that's why it started on LinkedIn, and starting to reach 99 00:07:18,150 --> 00:07:27,000 out to some connections that you had there. And I find that in a 100 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,440 way safer to talk to a stranger, you know, it's not as hard to 101 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,670 talk to someone you don't really know, I find, even though I'll 102 00:07:35,670 --> 00:07:39,150 talk to anybody and everybody, I'm an I'm more the extrovert in 103 00:07:39,150 --> 00:07:42,990 that respect. And I can usually get pretty deep with them quite 104 00:07:42,990 --> 00:07:47,310 quickly. But for some people, I think that's much harder. And so 105 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,530 I think, to to reach out to, you know, people that were a name 106 00:07:52,530 --> 00:07:56,370 and on a connection list on LinkedIn, you may not have known 107 00:07:56,370 --> 00:08:01,350 them all very well, in fact, probably didn't. So how did that 108 00:08:01,710 --> 00:08:05,550 evolve and turn your life around? How did that help with 109 00:08:05,550 --> 00:08:05,940 that? 110 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,520 Dr. Keith McNally: It was either a spiritual or subconscious 111 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:17,520 need. And so I recognized that everything about my life needed 112 00:08:17,550 --> 00:08:21,420 to change. And so how I interacted with myself, how I 113 00:08:21,450 --> 00:08:24,390 how I thought about myself, how I interacted with people, and 114 00:08:24,390 --> 00:08:29,370 when I found about people, so throughout the job search, but 115 00:08:29,370 --> 00:08:35,040 it was really more about making the connection, talking with 116 00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:40,050 people. And like you said, I didn't have but maybe 2000, and 117 00:08:40,050 --> 00:08:43,980 some change people on my LinkedIn connection list. And I 118 00:08:43,980 --> 00:08:46,980 may have only really known a handful of them. Do you know, 119 00:08:47,010 --> 00:08:50,040 no, no, you know, right, not just on a professional basis, 120 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,210 but maybe something on a personal basis as well. But what 121 00:08:54,210 --> 00:08:57,210 I did was just simply tap on the virtual door and say, Would you 122 00:08:57,210 --> 00:09:00,810 like to have a conversation? And that was really the foundation 123 00:09:00,810 --> 00:09:04,410 of it. Now it was at a risk for me? Absolutely. Because of my 124 00:09:04,410 --> 00:09:10,050 introverted nature, definitely a risk. And, but what I was 125 00:09:10,050 --> 00:09:13,290 finding was the very thing I talked about earlier, people 126 00:09:13,290 --> 00:09:18,240 were making changes, and by the nature of humanity, they wanted 127 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,290 to tell somebody else about it. And I just happened to be that 128 00:09:22,290 --> 00:09:27,180 one person, if I'm inviting to a call, just like this, you know, 129 00:09:27,180 --> 00:09:30,540 let's jump on a zoom call. There, you know, as people were 130 00:09:30,540 --> 00:09:33,750 saying, yes, you know, but it was only the people who were 131 00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:38,850 making the investment in their own life and making changes in 132 00:09:38,850 --> 00:09:42,240 their life that wanted to have those conversations. It wasn't 133 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,930 everybody, you know, I got more, you know, people just ignored me 134 00:09:45,930 --> 00:09:53,700 or just said no, blatantly said, no, no, no, thank you never. So 135 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:58,080 the conversations happen slowly, but as I continued, it was just 136 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,290 something that I needed to do so I can To the process, would you 137 00:10:01,290 --> 00:10:05,340 like to have a conversation? Now, they didn't start getting 138 00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:10,770 recorded. Until I saw the idea that, you know, these people 139 00:10:10,770 --> 00:10:16,890 were sharing. We cried on Zoom calls, you know, people had gone 140 00:10:16,890 --> 00:10:21,870 through some stuff. And they wanted to share their story. No, 141 00:10:21,870 --> 00:10:25,740 I wasn't necessarily being fully open disclosure with my own 142 00:10:25,740 --> 00:10:29,580 stuff. But at the time, it really didn't, I didn't need to 143 00:10:29,580 --> 00:10:33,420 be because they were really sharing their stories. And so I 144 00:10:33,450 --> 00:10:39,120 simply asked the next person, would it be okay to record this? 145 00:10:39,690 --> 00:10:45,870 And somebody said, Yes. And so, with that, first, yes, I started 146 00:10:45,870 --> 00:10:48,630 recording conversation that began with some of the folks 147 00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:52,170 that I did know, personally and professionally, and then grew it 148 00:10:52,170 --> 00:10:57,150 from there. So initially, what was a podcast or basically a 149 00:10:57,150 --> 00:11:02,490 YouTube playlist called level up? Within 15 to 20 episodes, 150 00:11:02,490 --> 00:11:07,770 and I do 40 Episode seasons. I change it to the question guy. 151 00:11:08,190 --> 00:11:11,790 I'm a college professor by trade, I ask a lot of questions. 152 00:11:11,850 --> 00:11:15,930 And the question guy stuck. And so the question guy podcast 153 00:11:15,930 --> 00:11:20,250 became, you know, that series of playlists that started, you 154 00:11:20,250 --> 00:11:24,240 know, these are 2120 22. Interesting. 155 00:11:24,690 --> 00:11:27,750 Janice Porter: So, what were you teaching? By the way? Do you 156 00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:28,950 teach now still, 157 00:11:28,980 --> 00:11:32,340 Dr. Keith McNally: I do I still teach, not at the not at a 158 00:11:32,340 --> 00:11:38,400 college. I, my background is in it. And my doctorate is in 159 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,330 educational leadership. So by all intents and purposes, I 160 00:11:42,330 --> 00:11:44,400 should have gone into an administration, but I'm very 161 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:49,500 comfortable in the classroom, and so sharing knowledge, yeah, 162 00:11:49,530 --> 00:11:52,470 yeah, I'm very comfortable. So now I work for an international 163 00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:55,680 business solutions company, and I'm a tech I'm one of their 164 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:56,790 technical trainers. 165 00:11:56,910 --> 00:12:00,810 Janice Porter: Okay. Wow. Okay. And that's so different to this 166 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,570 journey, that you're towards leadership. Right? And 167 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,940 Dr. Keith McNally: very, very different. Yeah. To some degree. 168 00:12:05,940 --> 00:12:06,270 Yeah. 169 00:12:06,660 --> 00:12:10,500 Janice Porter: So one of the things that, that I noticed on 170 00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:14,580 your bio, was that you that topics that you like to talk 171 00:12:14,580 --> 00:12:17,190 about, and this is the one that jumped below, they all did, but 172 00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:20,250 this one jumped out at me discuss strategies for actively 173 00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:24,930 building creating and nurturing meaningful connections, because 174 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,500 that's what I'm all about to I'm all about relationship building, 175 00:12:28,530 --> 00:12:33,450 and, and business built on relationships, relationships 176 00:12:33,450 --> 00:12:36,720 form that, you know, you form a trust with people, people can 177 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,870 trust, if you refer somebody to them, it's going to be the right 178 00:12:39,870 --> 00:12:43,830 person, etc, etc, all of those things. So what would you say 179 00:12:43,860 --> 00:12:48,510 are the, the, the, the best strategies for doing that? 180 00:12:50,430 --> 00:12:51,540 Dr. Keith McNally: Well, everybody's gonna have their 181 00:12:51,540 --> 00:12:58,530 unique take to that. And so what I, what I did is, I learned 182 00:12:58,530 --> 00:13:03,210 about people, I made it my purpose to learn about people. 183 00:13:03,210 --> 00:13:06,540 And so earlier, when you kind of, you know, read off pieces of 184 00:13:06,540 --> 00:13:09,870 my bio, I do have three different conversations that's 185 00:13:09,870 --> 00:13:12,810 actually grown to five and will grow to six by the end of this 186 00:13:12,810 --> 00:13:18,240 year. And because my hashtag is commerce, all conversations that 187 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,440 matter is my hashtag to one of them that I use in conversations 188 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,070 for change, because everything begins and ends with the right 189 00:13:26,070 --> 00:13:31,200 conversation. And that's kind of been my, my, my gut. Since all 190 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,010 of this began. And I mean that to say, the first set of 191 00:13:35,010 --> 00:13:37,860 conversations were all about people's personal story. And 192 00:13:37,860 --> 00:13:41,190 that's what the question guy is all about. Right? Because of 193 00:13:41,190 --> 00:13:44,820 their transformation. People actually create business models 194 00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:48,750 from their own personal stuff, became coaches, speakers, or 195 00:13:48,780 --> 00:13:53,370 book authors, and are now helping people going through the 196 00:13:53,370 --> 00:13:56,670 stuff that they originally went through, or helping other people 197 00:13:56,670 --> 00:14:00,030 go through that same stuckness whatever that is. And so, I 198 00:14:00,030 --> 00:14:02,790 credit Coaches Corner specifically to talk about 199 00:14:03,060 --> 00:14:07,830 business expertise. On the brink, grander, global, more 200 00:14:07,830 --> 00:14:10,920 broader scale, I created the Envision speaker series and I 201 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,310 brought back panels members, panel people, people who have 202 00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:17,610 already been on my show, I wanted to start talking about 203 00:14:17,610 --> 00:14:21,420 what it takes to make social change happen, you know, 204 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,470 whatever that toxic work, you know, workplace toxicity, mental 205 00:14:25,470 --> 00:14:28,140 health, illness, you know, mental illness, mental health 206 00:14:28,140 --> 00:14:32,130 issues in men. Why do men have more suicide ideations now than 207 00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:38,400 ever before? At any age level? How to heal how to be holistic 208 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,570 in your who you are not just about being this person 209 00:14:42,570 --> 00:14:46,200 professionally and this person personally, step up and show up 210 00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:51,990 as who you are. All the time. That's the start of the answer 211 00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:55,170 to your question. How do we build that know like trust 212 00:14:55,170 --> 00:14:58,410 relationship? It starts with two things and this is what I 213 00:14:58,410 --> 00:15:03,480 learned over Coming in on my own suicide ideation, learn how to 214 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,840 breathe. One thing is to do is learn under breathe. breathing 215 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,680 calms the body and focuses the mind. And I don't mean just a 216 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,010 regular breathing, I mean, focus breathing, you know, close your 217 00:15:14,010 --> 00:15:18,330 eyes sit down, and taking that breath and allow the oxygen to 218 00:15:18,330 --> 00:15:21,180 do what it's designed to do. And that's give you energy. It's one 219 00:15:21,180 --> 00:15:25,500 of the things it's designed to do. And then once you learn how 220 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:29,160 to do that, figure out who you are actually wrote a book. 221 00:15:30,330 --> 00:15:32,970 Walking the Path of leaders journey is all about personal 222 00:15:32,970 --> 00:15:37,020 development through a series of stages. But the essence of the 223 00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:41,400 book is if you throw away the titles, and I had to because I 224 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,370 was unemployed for 12 months, so everything I did, as a doctor, 225 00:15:44,370 --> 00:15:47,280 everything I did, as a college professor, everything I did, 226 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:52,230 prior to the chaos, I had to let go, because it was all those 227 00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:55,110 things I was holding on to that I couldn't hold on to anymore. 228 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,180 They were slipping away. And so what I decided to do was, let 229 00:16:00,180 --> 00:16:04,440 them go. And when I decided to let everything go, my whole life 230 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,330 changed, I found a job. People were beginning to help me do 231 00:16:09,330 --> 00:16:15,660 what I needed to do to overcome, you know, suicide ideation, the 232 00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:21,210 chaos of COVID building relationships. So I started 233 00:16:21,210 --> 00:16:24,210 having more of those more and more those conversations just 234 00:16:24,210 --> 00:16:31,200 like this one. And I began to appreciate every conversation, 235 00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:35,430 every person that I would meet, because they were adding, if 236 00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:38,970 anything, just a little gold, maybe a little bit of value to 237 00:16:38,970 --> 00:16:45,150 my life. And I have to hope and think that as I was living 238 00:16:45,150 --> 00:16:48,720 vicariously through them, and becoming comfortable with 239 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:54,240 myself, that I was exchanging that same value at some level to 240 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:59,070 them. That has to be true, because now I've had over 250 241 00:16:59,070 --> 00:17:02,310 recorded conversations under five different platforms. 242 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,990 Janice Porter: So this is what I'm picturing. I'm picturing 243 00:17:06,990 --> 00:17:13,980 that, that you lost your job that you you were and COVID hid. 244 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,630 And you were alone a lot. As we all were, you know, unless we, 245 00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:20,940 you know, have people live in our house with us, we have a lot 246 00:17:20,940 --> 00:17:29,310 of, you know, alone time, and that brought you into negative 247 00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:36,990 state. And you plummeted. But you also had the wherewithal to 248 00:17:37,020 --> 00:17:39,540 get yourself out of it. I mean, did you have were you in 249 00:17:39,540 --> 00:17:41,700 therapy, were you where you want? No, I 250 00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:43,650 Dr. Keith McNally: didn't. I didn't have the wherewithal to 251 00:17:43,650 --> 00:17:50,040 get myself, okay. I actually, for whatever, for whatever was 252 00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:56,280 keeping me alive. I was showing up even broken. So I was showing 253 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,160 up to networking meetings, I was showing up to job interviews, I 254 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,760 was showing up to whatever I needed to do. Even on LinkedIn, 255 00:18:02,790 --> 00:18:06,780 even the conversations I was having, I was still broken. I 256 00:18:06,780 --> 00:18:09,540 actually met somebody His name is Mitch Cray, and I always give 257 00:18:09,540 --> 00:18:12,030 him a shout out. So don't don't hate me for in this 258 00:18:12,030 --> 00:18:15,690 conversation. He invested his life into me, you 259 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,840 Janice Porter: know, I said, Why would I hate you for it? No, 260 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:19,620 absolutely. 261 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,500 Dr. Keith McNally: He invested his life into me so that I would 262 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:26,220 still have one. And at first, he was just a mentor. Now we're 263 00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:31,590 really good friends. So it was one person making the investment 264 00:18:31,620 --> 00:18:35,490 free of charge? No. It's because of who he is and what he does 265 00:18:35,490 --> 00:18:38,550 and how he does it. That said, you know, Keith, we're going to 266 00:18:38,550 --> 00:18:40,590 take this one step at a time. He's the one who taught me to 267 00:18:40,590 --> 00:18:42,390 breathe. He's the one who taught me to show up. 268 00:18:43,980 --> 00:18:48,900 Janice Porter: I love it. No, I think that's great. But you did 269 00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:54,270 I mean, give yourself some credit. Right? For keeping going 270 00:18:54,420 --> 00:18:59,040 until that happened, right? Because, right. And actually, 271 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,380 it's making me think of something else too. Like when 272 00:19:01,380 --> 00:19:04,890 you talk about the breathing and and I don't do that enough, I 273 00:19:04,890 --> 00:19:09,060 don't stop and just, you know, relax and do that. But I've 274 00:19:09,060 --> 00:19:12,660 noticed that I have a little granddaughter, she's four and a 275 00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:16,350 half, she's almost five. And she's very hyperactive, and 276 00:19:16,350 --> 00:19:20,940 she's never stops moving. But if you if you know she's getting 277 00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:25,920 too, too much and too much going on, you kind of have to stop her 278 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,430 and look her in the eye and go, Okay, let's just breathe. And 279 00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:33,330 take a breath and just relax for a minute. And you can see what 280 00:19:33,330 --> 00:19:36,870 happens when she does that. She needs to do that. And the other 281 00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:41,190 thing that she needs to do, which I want to come to with you 282 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:47,100 is she needs to be out in nature. It seems to ground her 283 00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:50,850 and she is at her best when she's digging in the soil and 284 00:19:50,850 --> 00:19:55,110 she's, you know, dig turning over a rock or getting dirty or 285 00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:58,350 putting her feet in the water. That's what she loves to do. 286 00:19:58,770 --> 00:20:01,530 Which is like the first Sing from me, I was the kid who 287 00:20:01,530 --> 00:20:04,320 didn't want to get dirty when I was a kid. So it's really 288 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,710 interesting to see what she's teaching, you know, me, for 289 00:20:07,710 --> 00:20:12,690 example. But I think that you must feel that too, because 290 00:20:12,690 --> 00:20:17,910 you're going on this amazing journey that is also to raise 291 00:20:17,910 --> 00:20:23,070 money, I think also for people in need. You can tell me 292 00:20:23,070 --> 00:20:25,800 exactly. It's about suicide prevention, I think. Right. 293 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,700 Dr. Keith McNally: So I'm on a mission. And so I've 294 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:32,460 collaborated with a couple of different people to do a couple 295 00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:37,440 of different things. One of the things that I'm working with is 296 00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:41,550 any event in September 2024. So at the time of this recording 297 00:20:41,550 --> 00:20:44,190 this year, in a couple of months, I'm working with Shane 298 00:20:44,190 --> 00:20:50,010 Kramer, and Rick made down in North Carolina, in 2023. 299 00:20:50,010 --> 00:20:54,210 Unfortunately, NC State University was in the spotlight 300 00:20:54,210 --> 00:20:57,900 in the media spotlight, because they had incurred several deaths 301 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:04,590 by suicide at the colleges. So the college level 2018 1920 21 302 00:21:04,590 --> 00:21:08,340 year olds are struggling for a variety of reasons. And so I 303 00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:12,780 know a lot of people have, have raised the attention. This has a 304 00:21:12,780 --> 00:21:15,930 focus, we just happen to have a really good team, and we're 305 00:21:15,930 --> 00:21:19,440 bringing some services, and we're gonna do an event down 306 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:25,020 there. But because I'm a veteran, my specific focus is 307 00:21:25,020 --> 00:21:31,080 with veterans and at risk veterans. I am you talked about 308 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,080 going back into nature. So one of the things I want to do is 309 00:21:34,110 --> 00:21:38,820 raise awareness, provide educational services, mentoring 310 00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:41,910 and training to veterans in the veteran community, including 311 00:21:41,910 --> 00:21:48,240 their families, on how to redesign your life. Now, I am 312 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,560 not a crisis intervention specialist, I'm not there, when 313 00:21:52,890 --> 00:21:55,890 you got the gun to your head, or whatever that situation looks 314 00:21:55,890 --> 00:21:59,880 like. That's not my space. But if you're still alive, and you 315 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:04,920 still struggle with unknowns and variables that you think are 316 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:09,030 problematic to you. I am somebody to talk to. There are 317 00:22:09,030 --> 00:22:12,180 many bigger organizations, Wounded Warrior, and all kinds 318 00:22:12,180 --> 00:22:15,570 of other veterans and mental illness, mental health 319 00:22:15,570 --> 00:22:20,310 organizations, and we all do our good job or due diligence, and 320 00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:24,960 we all work well in our spaces. But I've been there, I've 321 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,660 actually made the attempt three times my first time as a college 322 00:22:27,660 --> 00:22:32,370 student myself 25 years ago. But specifically, as an adult, 323 00:22:32,370 --> 00:22:36,240 there's no scarier place to be than alone, and thinking that 324 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,770 your life is worthless. And so because of that, and because 325 00:22:40,770 --> 00:22:44,790 I've got some friends, some veterans who, you know, did 326 00:22:44,790 --> 00:22:48,810 their time and service, some of them retired, who also struggle 327 00:22:49,950 --> 00:22:52,890 with life variables, and I always call them very, because 328 00:22:52,890 --> 00:22:59,370 we never know when something comes up. I do want to give them 329 00:22:59,370 --> 00:23:06,420 an opportunity, one to have a conversation to, to become real 330 00:23:06,420 --> 00:23:09,150 with themselves. And like I said, and even I wrote the book, 331 00:23:09,150 --> 00:23:11,220 but it's all about personal transformation, learn how to 332 00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:15,750 breathe, or on the show up, learn how to be vulnerable. The 333 00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:18,960 event that you're talking about is I want to hike through it's 334 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,780 called an actual thru hike in the community, the Appalachian 335 00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:26,700 Trail. So in 2025, on April 1 is our launch date. So me and 336 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:30,840 Jodi's is a colleague of mine, friend of mine, we both 337 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,570 veterans, we're going to do a thru hike of the Appalachian 338 00:23:33,570 --> 00:23:38,460 Trail. And so that's a 2193 miles depending on who you talk 339 00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:43,650 to you from Springer Mountain, Georgia, all the way College in 340 00:23:43,650 --> 00:23:48,540 Maine. And so it's going through 14 states, on the east coast of 341 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,160 the US contiguous states, it's going to take about four months, 342 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,690 the way God keeps on putting it, probably five, and so we do need 343 00:23:57,690 --> 00:24:01,890 to raise a lot of money just to put us through the hike, food 344 00:24:01,890 --> 00:24:05,400 and some other supplies as well. But specifically, we're going to 345 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:11,400 be bringing people in veterans service members, those who have 346 00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:15,000 overcome their own situations or those who are still struggling 347 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,950 with their own situations, we're going to bring them on the 348 00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:21,330 trail. We are welcoming every possible section hiker so if you 349 00:24:21,330 --> 00:24:25,980 want to join us awesome, more than the more the merrier. Even 350 00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:30,150 if you only like one mile with us now. It's cool. No overnight 351 00:24:30,150 --> 00:24:33,120 camping, but at the very least, this is going to be 352 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:37,620 transformational for for many, many people. And probably 353 00:24:37,620 --> 00:24:40,590 specifically for me and for Jodi because this is something we've 354 00:24:40,590 --> 00:24:44,850 never attempted before. So we're novice thru hikers haven't done 355 00:24:44,850 --> 00:24:48,090 it before. I mean, we have hiked and we have camped, and so we 356 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,660 we've got the general idea of how to do this. But you know, 357 00:24:51,660 --> 00:24:55,200 hiking 20 plus miles a day across 14 states over four 358 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,130 months, is different. You know, he's calling it a military 359 00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:02,190 mission and I'm I'm right there with him because it's all about 360 00:25:02,190 --> 00:25:06,120 logistics and planning and all this other kind of stuff. And so 361 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,850 that's why we are raising money. But we're also specifically 362 00:25:08,850 --> 00:25:13,980 raising awareness, and providing education coaching as well. And 363 00:25:14,670 --> 00:25:15,330 mentoring. 364 00:25:15,690 --> 00:25:17,880 Janice Porter: So hopefully you'll get some PR out of it. 365 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:23,640 And as you go through it, you'll log it on video and all of that 366 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:24,510 good stuff, right? 367 00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:27,600 Dr. Keith McNally: Yeah, well, so we did it, as long as we get 368 00:25:27,630 --> 00:25:31,950 the answer sheet and the Wi Fi, the Wi Fi, live stream, what we 369 00:25:31,950 --> 00:25:36,780 can do anything else gets recorded. He is he's a technical 370 00:25:36,780 --> 00:25:39,630 guru. So I've asked him to kind of bring some of his his toys 371 00:25:39,630 --> 00:25:43,170 with them, we might create some, you know, virtual or augmented 372 00:25:43,170 --> 00:25:45,870 reality segments along the way, which would be really, really 373 00:25:45,870 --> 00:25:50,490 cool for people who are in that space. But all in all, you know, 374 00:25:50,490 --> 00:25:56,340 we are really looking to, to really bring a new identity to 375 00:25:56,340 --> 00:25:59,610 the bedroom community, because like you said, you Mo's your 376 00:25:59,610 --> 00:26:05,550 niece, my granddaughter. Yeah, when she's out in nature, we're 377 00:26:05,550 --> 00:26:09,030 created, you know, I do believe we were created. And the book 378 00:26:09,030 --> 00:26:12,510 says we're created from dirt particles of the earth. And so 379 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,500 part of part of us is connected to that, and you can't take that 380 00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:19,980 away. I from my belief structure, I can't take that 381 00:26:19,980 --> 00:26:20,280 away. 382 00:26:21,540 --> 00:26:28,890 Janice Porter: Wow, interesting. So I think that's a, it's a very 383 00:26:30,090 --> 00:26:38,040 robust plan, and got the word challenge that you're taking on. 384 00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:41,100 And I think it'll be quite, it'll be exciting for you. And 385 00:26:41,490 --> 00:26:45,180 I'm sure that the biggest thing will come from people's 386 00:26:45,210 --> 00:26:49,080 transformations. And so I'd like to ask you in all of the 387 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,760 discussions you have with people and, and I know you're a 388 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,290 teacher, your trainer, your Creator, your speaker in all of 389 00:26:58,290 --> 00:27:02,220 the people that you that you touch with the work that you do. 390 00:27:03,330 --> 00:27:08,670 Do you have one or two stories that's really stand out? As, you 391 00:27:08,670 --> 00:27:13,740 know, just really special? Um, I know I put you on the spot, but 392 00:27:13,980 --> 00:27:20,730 Dr. Keith McNally: no, it's okay. There is. I always say 393 00:27:20,730 --> 00:27:26,910 every conversation is important. And what I what, what I would 394 00:27:26,910 --> 00:27:33,450 like to see happen is more men step up to the conversation, 395 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:39,330 more men step up to the microphone. Only because I don't 396 00:27:39,330 --> 00:27:45,840 get that often enough. Now. I have a lot of conversations on 397 00:27:46,350 --> 00:27:50,220 this is a lot of them with women. So women would step up. 398 00:27:50,220 --> 00:27:52,950 And because they're, it's easier for them to share my personal 399 00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:59,610 experience, you know, tragedy and whatnot. And very few men, 400 00:28:00,090 --> 00:28:04,020 at least, on my podcast, are willing to do that now if you 401 00:28:04,020 --> 00:28:10,110 have if you have cried. And so that's that I think is a very 402 00:28:10,110 --> 00:28:16,200 powerful thing is when I see a man cry in front of me, because 403 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,970 of something that's happened in him in his life, and he's 404 00:28:20,970 --> 00:28:25,830 willing to become vulnerable. And he's willing to disclose. 405 00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:30,210 And so if more men can actually not every man has to do that, 406 00:28:30,270 --> 00:28:32,460 you know, I'm not saying that every man has to break down like 407 00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:36,660 a baby and cry. But for the expression of emotion in that 408 00:28:36,660 --> 00:28:40,500 way, that release of energy is so valuable and 409 00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:45,150 transformational. That I would like to see more men do that. 410 00:28:45,450 --> 00:28:49,530 And so that did happen in one of my conversations. And it wasn't 411 00:28:49,530 --> 00:28:52,110 even though the question God podcast, it was Coach's Corner, 412 00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:55,710 because he had lost everything. It might have been a mixed vote, 413 00:28:55,890 --> 00:28:59,670 he had lost everything, and had to go back to mom and dad as a 414 00:28:59,670 --> 00:29:04,740 grown man and say, you know, Dad, I failed. And that broke 415 00:29:04,740 --> 00:29:07,470 him. And it broke him on in the conversation. And so that was 416 00:29:07,470 --> 00:29:12,870 such a powerful moment. Both in our conversation, and I think in 417 00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:18,090 his own life, of course, that he changed himself. The other story 418 00:29:18,090 --> 00:29:22,380 wouldn't be, like I said, I have, you know, of my three. So 419 00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:26,310 personal, professional and social impact stories. I do have 420 00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:28,620 two other specific conversations, one around 421 00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:32,040 suicide and the impact of suicide in our lives. I have 422 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,100 about eight or nine on my playlist on YouTube. And I have 423 00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:38,250 an a fifth conversation for those people who want to kind of 424 00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:42,840 drop the facade, drop the titles and just have conversations with 425 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,860 me about what's really important in their lives. And I've had 426 00:29:46,860 --> 00:29:48,870 about, you know, a handful of those and I call them 427 00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:51,360 conversations. It's a conversations playlist on 428 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:57,510 YouTube. And her name is Carrie Allen. She is very active on 429 00:29:57,510 --> 00:30:00,900 LinkedIn. She is the founder of the Hume Monterey with a 430 00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:07,140 colleague, Sara Cotterell. And they do, they taught me how to 431 00:30:07,140 --> 00:30:14,550 meditate. They taught me how to meditate and how to use words, 432 00:30:14,850 --> 00:30:19,860 to empower me before I have conversations, because what I 433 00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:23,460 wanted to do was get better at this, I wanted to get better at 434 00:30:23,460 --> 00:30:27,180 having conversations with people. And that meant, from her 435 00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:29,670 perspective, and probably from my perspective, is to be more 436 00:30:29,670 --> 00:30:35,820 present, not run from a script, not rehearse words or sentences 437 00:30:35,820 --> 00:30:39,390 or questions, but to be present in the moment. And she taught me 438 00:30:39,390 --> 00:30:43,440 how to do that. And I think since like, October, September, 439 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,440 October, November, last year to now so at the time of this 440 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,980 recording, I've gotten much better at that being present in 441 00:30:49,980 --> 00:30:55,230 the moment and being to exchange energies with the person or 442 00:30:55,230 --> 00:30:58,950 people I'm having conversations with. And so that they recognize 443 00:30:58,950 --> 00:31:02,430 that they're being listened to, and being validated. And that's 444 00:31:02,430 --> 00:31:06,180 probably the most powerful thing I've been able to learn to date. 445 00:31:07,260 --> 00:31:10,500 Janice Porter: That's really interesting. Because I don't 446 00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:14,220 work from a script, I can't, and that's with anything I do, like, 447 00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:17,460 even when I have to go do a speech, which I don't do very 448 00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:21,510 often because I'm uncomfortable having a script. But you know, 449 00:31:22,410 --> 00:31:25,590 I'm better off the cuff in a way. I mean, I have to do some 450 00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:30,120 prep, but I just have to feel it out when I'm speaking to the 451 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:37,260 person. But what you're talking about for me, I think comes from 452 00:31:37,890 --> 00:31:42,720 Curiosity. So that's, I find interesting in what you're 453 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:49,170 saying, because I don't always I sometimes ask my my guests the 454 00:31:49,170 --> 00:31:53,100 curiosity question, because I'm fascinated by that myself, and I 455 00:31:53,100 --> 00:32:00,240 feel I have a really good sense. And I have a sense of curiosity. 456 00:32:00,690 --> 00:32:05,970 And a lot of people don't. And I wonder if people think it's 457 00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:12,900 innate or learned. And that sort of is curious to me when you 458 00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:16,920 say, you know, learning about being in the moment and, and 459 00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:23,340 being aware of what someone's saying and feeding off that. I 460 00:32:23,340 --> 00:32:28,140 call that curiosity. So did you have to learn, you had to learn 461 00:32:28,140 --> 00:32:28,500 that? 462 00:32:28,890 --> 00:32:33,210 Dr. Keith McNally: I did. I would say it's a balance I I 463 00:32:33,210 --> 00:32:35,460 intentionally knew I wanted to be better at having a 464 00:32:35,460 --> 00:32:39,180 conversation, a real conversation to to literally be 465 00:32:39,210 --> 00:32:43,770 in that space, rather than, you know, the notorious thinking 466 00:32:43,770 --> 00:32:48,390 about what I have to say, as as part of the interaction and so 467 00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:53,280 with with, you know, Carrie Allen, Sarah Cotterill, Eileen 468 00:32:53,280 --> 00:33:00,300 build Mitch cray. These people taught me how to focus one my 469 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:06,000 energies to my thoughts through my subconscious. Breathe and be 470 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,560 in the moment. Now, Am I perfect at it? Not yet, I am getting 471 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,920 better. And I think with every conversation, I do get better. 472 00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:20,640 But it was something I had to learn. It wasn't necessarily 473 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,910 something that was just jumping out at me and say, you know, 474 00:33:23,910 --> 00:33:26,700 this is just who you are. And it all works. Remember, I'm an 475 00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:31,470 introvert by nature. So for 50 years, I didn't have too many 476 00:33:31,470 --> 00:33:32,550 conversations. 477 00:33:32,610 --> 00:33:36,960 Janice Porter: Right? Right. It's fascinating, because I know 478 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:42,300 people that say that same thing, and they're not, they're not 479 00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:48,300 curious at all. And so yes, it can be learned. And it can also 480 00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:52,080 be innate. So I don't know, I always in my mind, I think we 481 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,560 all start as curiosity as curious kids, little kids, and, 482 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,980 you know, but somewhere, something gets drummed out of us 483 00:33:59,010 --> 00:34:03,270 in lots of school, maybe, no, I taught school. So I hate to say 484 00:34:03,270 --> 00:34:07,380 that, but I think it's true. You know, in fact, you know, my 485 00:34:07,380 --> 00:34:09,990 granddaughter starting kindergarten September, and it's 486 00:34:09,990 --> 00:34:13,260 gonna be really interesting to see what happens with her 487 00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:17,940 because she can't sit still for very long. And yeah, so we'll 488 00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:21,000 see. We'll see what happens. We'll, we'll be monitoring it 489 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,470 and looking at how it affects her. But um, yeah, so curiosity 490 00:34:25,470 --> 00:34:28,260 and the skills and the strategies like you said, for, 491 00:34:28,350 --> 00:34:32,010 for how to better yourself in this in the situations you put 492 00:34:32,010 --> 00:34:36,750 yourself in. So I love that you are really always working on 493 00:34:36,750 --> 00:34:39,450 yourself. I love that. Yeah, that's 494 00:34:39,449 --> 00:34:41,009 Dr. Keith McNally: what I have to do now. I mean, if I'm going 495 00:34:41,009 --> 00:34:44,429 to be, you know, a better coach, a better speaker, a better 496 00:34:44,429 --> 00:34:51,269 podcast host. I need to do that because without that, it's just 497 00:34:51,269 --> 00:34:54,329 going to be a flat, boring conversation. There's gonna be 498 00:34:54,329 --> 00:34:58,319 no energy, there's gonna be no exchange of value. All the 499 00:34:58,319 --> 00:35:03,539 cliches but really I think as based on what you said earlier 500 00:35:03,539 --> 00:35:05,879 earlier in the conversation, it's all about building that 501 00:35:05,909 --> 00:35:11,879 relationship that know, like trust. And so because of that, 502 00:35:12,149 --> 00:35:14,039 you know, personal transformation process, and I'm 503 00:35:14,039 --> 00:35:17,669 putting myself through a continuing the know, like trust 504 00:35:17,699 --> 00:35:22,589 paradigm, you know, the triad is becoming more and more part of 505 00:35:22,589 --> 00:35:25,439 me. And I say that, because it's, it's part of the 506 00:35:25,439 --> 00:35:28,979 importance of what I do. Because I've talked with so many people 507 00:35:28,979 --> 00:35:31,469 that I've I know, there's two people out there that need to 508 00:35:31,469 --> 00:35:35,369 talk themselves, I make that connection. I'm not asking for 509 00:35:35,369 --> 00:35:38,939 anything in return, I do the same thing, John, that, you 510 00:35:38,939 --> 00:35:43,199 know, times and time again. And it's always been that, to my 511 00:35:43,199 --> 00:35:46,259 knowledge, when they come back to me, that's always been the 512 00:35:46,259 --> 00:35:51,119 right connection. So it's like these people needed to me. And 513 00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:53,249 apparently, I was the facilitator of that. 514 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,160 Janice Porter: Yeah, that feels so good. I know, I do that too. 515 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,330 And I and when it works, you just know that it's like, 516 00:36:00,330 --> 00:36:03,510 there's the magic, right? And you've just been that. I don't 517 00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:07,770 know, I, I find that so satisfying. You have to meet 518 00:36:07,770 --> 00:36:11,190 this person, I honestly, trust me on this one, and boom, it's 519 00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:16,440 just perfect. I love it. So this is fascinating. There was one 520 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:24,360 more thing I wanted to ask you about. So I know that you let 521 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:29,730 your storyteller and you're now your conversationalist. You 522 00:36:30,510 --> 00:36:37,080 You're, you're a speaker, which is also bringing you more of an 523 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,700 extrovert piece when you're a speaker, right? But are you and 524 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:44,310 your writer, so which do you like to do the most 525 00:36:47,370 --> 00:36:50,820 Dr. Keith McNally: I would like to do all the make bank on a 526 00:36:50,820 --> 00:36:55,590 two, I can't do that access to have my nine to five. To be 527 00:36:55,590 --> 00:37:01,560 quite honest, I in joy, I enjoy all of them. So there's there's 528 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:07,770 no doubt about any of it. The most nerve wracking of the bunch 529 00:37:07,770 --> 00:37:11,130 is being on stage. That's why I want more opportunities to do 530 00:37:11,130 --> 00:37:15,360 that. I think I have I can add role. And I hate to cliche, I 531 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,090 could add real value to that space. Only because I want to 532 00:37:18,090 --> 00:37:22,440 share my story. And that may be egotistical at this point, I 533 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,310 don't know. But the most converse, the best thing I enjoy 534 00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:29,160 doing at this point is, is having these conversations 535 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,240 because I do think I do believe that every conversation is 536 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:36,990 important. And every conversation was meant to be 537 00:37:36,990 --> 00:37:40,740 listened to by at least one other person who's going to take 538 00:37:40,740 --> 00:37:44,220 something from it. For some reason, I believe that in 539 00:37:44,220 --> 00:37:47,280 lately. And so even this conversation, and I know this is 540 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,900 your podcast, if only one person watched it, it's needed to be 541 00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:56,760 watched by that one. Hopefully more. Yeah, that's okay. But 542 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,360 there's somebody out there who needs to hear what we and it's 543 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,410 not just what I it's what we've had to say. And the energies 544 00:38:04,410 --> 00:38:07,650 that we exchanged. Somebody needs to not only hear it, but 545 00:38:07,650 --> 00:38:12,330 they need to experience it. So for every conversation I have, 546 00:38:12,330 --> 00:38:16,380 that's why I want to get better at them. I think I believe I 547 00:38:16,380 --> 00:38:21,810 trust that there's somebody out there eventually. That needs to 548 00:38:21,810 --> 00:38:24,990 experience that conversation. What happens the next day or 549 00:38:24,990 --> 00:38:30,060 five years later. As long as it's evergreen. It can happen. 550 00:38:32,430 --> 00:38:35,730 Janice Porter: So I think that your book, a walk walking the 551 00:38:35,730 --> 00:38:41,040 path, a leaders journey. That path is personal development, 552 00:38:41,070 --> 00:38:43,860 right? I mean, yes, you're going on the Appalachian Trail. And 553 00:38:43,860 --> 00:38:47,010 that's the physical path that you're going on. And, and 554 00:38:47,010 --> 00:38:51,630 growing from it. But this is about becoming a leader of self. 555 00:38:51,810 --> 00:38:52,290 Right. 556 00:38:52,860 --> 00:38:57,600 Dr. Keith McNally: It is now the characters, it's both Oh, it's 557 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,770 disabled. I do apologize, but no, it's all good. So it's a 558 00:39:01,770 --> 00:39:04,290 mixture of both, you know, contextual elements of 559 00:39:04,290 --> 00:39:07,590 leadership and what that looks like, but not from an academic 560 00:39:07,590 --> 00:39:11,580 perspective. So I pull out, we talked about mentoring, we 561 00:39:11,580 --> 00:39:13,950 talked about team building, we talked about communication 562 00:39:13,950 --> 00:39:18,900 becoming vulnerable, and all of the self development things that 563 00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:22,020 you really should have, if you're going to lead people and 564 00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:25,980 then the specific circumstance falls within a story of fable 565 00:39:25,980 --> 00:39:30,000 and narrative within the book, where a young man his name is 566 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:34,140 John So everything's kind of generic, needs to find himself 567 00:39:34,140 --> 00:39:36,930 and so he's expected to take over his dad's farm in his 568 00:39:36,930 --> 00:39:40,440 community, surrounded by mountains, so you know, very, 569 00:39:40,650 --> 00:39:43,770 very sick, you know, segregated and separated from the rest of 570 00:39:43,770 --> 00:39:50,550 the world. He's, it's mid basic course. Yeah, he feels like he's 571 00:39:50,550 --> 00:39:53,580 a misfit. He doesn't fit in. I mean, he can he can do to things 572 00:39:53,580 --> 00:39:56,490 but developing close friendships with a lot of people. He does 573 00:39:56,490 --> 00:40:02,340 have his close knit friends. He leads then he decides to lead 574 00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:08,760 them and they decide to follow him over the mountain, okay. And 575 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,610 he had to learn how to lead. And that's kind of the basis of the 576 00:40:11,610 --> 00:40:12,060 story. 577 00:40:13,139 --> 00:40:15,359 Janice Porter: That's really cool. Okay, I'm gonna come full 578 00:40:15,359 --> 00:40:17,939 circle. And we're going to wrap it up. And I'm going to ask you 579 00:40:17,939 --> 00:40:24,539 about your Lego. So no, seriously you are you get kits 580 00:40:24,569 --> 00:40:29,429 you make Lego creatures and characters and things. 581 00:40:29,700 --> 00:40:32,430 Dr. Keith McNally: So everything you see behind me outside of the 582 00:40:32,700 --> 00:40:36,420 happy birthday cards, and Father's Day cards are Lego 583 00:40:36,420 --> 00:40:42,780 built. And so their basic sets their license sets. And so the 584 00:40:42,780 --> 00:40:48,300 big red thing that you see, I think on over here, as Ninjago 585 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:54,060 Mac, and so he's stands about this tall. Now, Lego likes to 586 00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:57,120 advertise themselves as toys. I would not ever play with him 587 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:58,740 because he's very, very fragile. 588 00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:01,290 Janice Porter: And probably how many hours of putting it 589 00:41:01,290 --> 00:41:02,220 together, right. 590 00:41:02,250 --> 00:41:05,760 Dr. Keith McNally: So each of these sets, they're not 591 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,550 necessarily the advanced the builds, but they do take a 592 00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:13,170 couple of hours of dedicated time. Now the one I'm most proud 593 00:41:13,170 --> 00:41:16,590 of is StormBringer. And Stormbringer is a combination of 594 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:24,690 Lego Boost, which is one of their it's not their advanced 595 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:32,430 brick, computer brick. It's just an application, you can download 596 00:41:32,430 --> 00:41:37,950 it there's a robotic. He can, she wants to actually share it. 597 00:41:37,950 --> 00:41:41,340 Stormbringer she is she. So it's a combination of the booths 598 00:41:41,340 --> 00:41:46,020 product. This was like back in 2018. And the StormBringer 599 00:41:46,050 --> 00:41:51,420 dragon product. So they combined the two. And she could walk, she 600 00:41:51,420 --> 00:41:54,150 can roar, she can shoot lightning bolts out of her 601 00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:57,930 mouth. She's just a lot of fun to play with. But she's an awful 602 00:41:57,930 --> 00:41:59,340 lot of fun to build as well. 603 00:42:00,540 --> 00:42:04,650 Janice Porter: So I I always think of when I was young, I 604 00:42:04,650 --> 00:42:11,400 went to bingo at the local fair, right in the summertime. And 605 00:42:11,460 --> 00:42:14,220 some of my friends grandma used to go or something we'd go to 606 00:42:14,220 --> 00:42:19,260 bingo and everybody that were real bingo people. They had 607 00:42:19,260 --> 00:42:23,550 their 12 boards in front of them, and they had all their 608 00:42:23,550 --> 00:42:26,520 different dabbers daubers whatever you call them, and all 609 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,450 their trinkets, sir. Good luck charms me. It was like a whole 610 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,890 underworld economy for bingo people. Does that make sense? 611 00:42:35,070 --> 00:42:40,050 Yeah, every time he has it, and Lego would have its own people, 612 00:42:40,050 --> 00:42:43,440 right? So you have people that you build Lego with are people 613 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,220 that you compare kits with and things like that? 614 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,810 Dr. Keith McNally: Well, I don't. Because of you know, I'm 615 00:42:52,020 --> 00:42:57,030 an introvert. Well, let's put things into context. You know, 616 00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:59,880 when I talked about hugging 12 miles a day, that's four hours 617 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:05,640 of my day. So I'm up at 230 in the morning. I'm in bed by got 618 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,990 it. All right. My time is now spent elsewhere. Unfortunately, 619 00:43:10,020 --> 00:43:11,550 I would love to invest. Right, 620 00:43:11,550 --> 00:43:13,470 Janice Porter: you could see that being a thing, right? 621 00:43:14,070 --> 00:43:14,670 Dr. Keith McNally: I could. 622 00:43:15,870 --> 00:43:18,540 Janice Porter: Personally, I've been trying to build the Lego 623 00:43:18,540 --> 00:43:22,290 things with my granddaughter, and it's too hard for me to fit. 624 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,790 It's too intricate. And because she's gone from Duplo to Lego 625 00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:31,110 now. So now it's like, long as it has wheels. She's happy. So 626 00:43:31,140 --> 00:43:34,950 there you go. Anyway, this was so much fun. Thank you. I just 627 00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:39,030 had to ask that. Because I find you know, it's just that we have 628 00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:41,910 to have fun to write we have to do things that actually that's 629 00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:44,010 Dr. Keith McNally: part of the human nature we have to play in 630 00:43:44,010 --> 00:43:46,440 adults forget how to do it. But we have to add it back. We 631 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,740 Janice Porter: do we totally do. I know. And I've started playing 632 00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:52,140 these new games on LinkedIn. Have you looked at those? 633 00:43:53,820 --> 00:43:55,410 Dr. Keith McNally: No, I don't know anything about games on 634 00:43:55,410 --> 00:43:55,800 LinkedIn. 635 00:43:56,730 --> 00:43:59,700 Janice Porter: It's a whole new thing. It's under the just go to 636 00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:03,750 linkedin.com/games. And they'll show up. And once you've started 637 00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:06,750 to play with them, then they'll show up on your newsfeed or 638 00:44:06,750 --> 00:44:10,140 something and tell you, but I'm a words game person. I love 639 00:44:10,140 --> 00:44:15,270 words. And so these are that kind of thing like a mini sort 640 00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:18,750 of crossword ladder and things like that. Anyway, I don't know. 641 00:44:18,780 --> 00:44:21,840 It's an I'm just exploring it from a LinkedIn trainer 642 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,850 perspective, to see if it becomes another tool for 643 00:44:26,850 --> 00:44:28,530 building relationships. 644 00:44:30,690 --> 00:44:34,320 Yeah, so anyways, it'll open up a conversation. Exactly. 645 00:44:34,350 --> 00:44:38,700 So thank you for this conversation. Thank you for 646 00:44:38,970 --> 00:44:43,620 sharing your story and your verse, your expertise and your 647 00:44:43,620 --> 00:44:46,440 wisdom with us and to my audience. Thank you for being 648 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,880 here. If you heard something you were you were pleased about or 649 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,270 interested in please look up Dr. Keith. I will put his 650 00:44:54,270 --> 00:44:59,220 information in the show notes and and I assume you'll put will 651 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,790 give me or podcasts as well, right? 652 00:45:03,810 --> 00:45:06,120 Dr. Keith McNally: Most of my stuff. Yeah, most of my sales 653 00:45:06,210 --> 00:45:10,260 stuff sits on YouTube. I am on app on iTunes with the ambition 654 00:45:10,260 --> 00:45:11,100 speaker series. 655 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,100 Janice Porter: Perfect. And thanks for being here and 656 00:45:14,100 --> 00:45:17,130 remember to stay connected and be remembered